Author Topic: you pick  (Read 16149 times)

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you pick
« on: October 01, 2006, 07:33:32 PM »
ok atheist claim god is an absurd topic but you pick which is more absurd

the big bang comes from nothing( nothingness creates somethingness apparently on its own) to produce initially only light beams no matter no electrons neutrons nothing( this violates many laws already). then it compresses on itself and through the famous e=mc2 produces only( neutrons, protons etc) into  hydrogen and helium which collapse on itself until it explodes into massive amounts of hydrgen and helium. this hydrogen and helium cannot make life but start to make heavier elements such as iron etc which are necessary for life. this forms the universe as we no it, the sun the stars the everything. the sun forms and the earth forms at an incredibly percise spot were life is possible and is aloud to rotate unlike venus etc.. to keep free of complications. it is tilted perfectly with the moon at a perfect distance any deviation would result in collapse, i mean small fractional changes.

ok the earth cools and life begins immediately, not billions of years for life would not be here but immediately and with very little, some rocks water few elements. then for 3 billion years remain single cell according to the fossil record and boom all of a sudden 34 phyla formed at the same time in an instant as dated by the fossil record. photosynthesis starts immediately when the earth cools also.this refutes darwin as dated in the fossil record. so everything you see, every person every door, chair etc all came from a beam of light as happened from the big bang. we are light condensed into living matter.

oh wait, inert matter becomes alive and conscious of it's exsistence and reproduces. but wait, why would bacteria reproduce did it want to increase its fitness. did it know it was going to die thus said i should reproduce.

again we came from light beams this is a fact from the materialistic model.

now which sounds more ridicoulous that all this happened by chance which according to the champion of this theory is impossible after his retraction as seen in scientific america.  or did it have something behind it which planned created and acted upon the universe do it.

we really are connected since we all came from beams of light first emitted from the big bang!

NeoSeminole

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Re: you pick
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2006, 08:55:56 PM »
Oh please, your creation theory is just as absurd as proclaiming an invisible pink unicorn created the universe with its magic horn! You also managed to bastardize the big bang theory, star formation theory, and evolution.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2006, 03:20:35 AM »
no i never i just simplified it to its basic parts, you bastardize the idea of a god by using the pink unicorn idea. pink and unicorns exist i already said this, anything you can conceptualize exists, so that is a dumb argument. think of a new sense, what would it involve?

light beams fact
compression of those light beams to particles to matter fact
instant life formation fact
single cell for 3 billion years fact
photo instant fact
34 phyla instant fact
bacteria reproduce for no reason fact
inert matter into living matter fact
this matter can now create music, think, talk, and know of it's exsistence fact.

nothing wrong with anything i said just admit it, creation seems logical given the inprobabilities and design implicated in the delicate structure of the universe. what is wrong with what i said, did i make something up? no. did you  about pink unicorns, yes. i purport not to know the physical properties of god but only to say that god seems logical.
 

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Re: you pick
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2006, 03:37:31 AM »
you can make god seem more unbelievable by likening him to a pink unicorn but when i tell the actual factual as seen in science it seems ridiculous for some reason.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 07:23:13 AM »
you post pictures of skulls which are supposed transitional fossils of man. now let me refute you

neanderthal 1956 rejected in 1960's as a man with arthritis

hesperopithecus 1922, rejected 1927 as an extinct pig

1912 piltdown man, revealed in 1953 as a hoax by evolutionists

zinjanthropus 1958, rejected 1960's by later find

ramapithecus, rejected in 1929 as an extinct pig, was discoverd in 1964.

any other fossils were catergorized as co-habiting ape and man fossils by renouned palentologists.

again your theory goes beyond its application.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 07:40:47 AM »
answer this question using your theories, or laws or whatever. for one single rung of dna to come together the chances are 10 to the -87 or as some people with a brain like to call it impossible. again how did nothingness become somethingness?

merely saying we dont know can be used as an argument for creation too, god hasn't been seen yet but will be. it is moot so answer the question to the best of your ability if you will

also, evolution happens so slow we cant see it as touted by many or  in punctuated equilibrium which is too fast to see. ok that sounds logical, so again  we have the same data we are looking at it wrong, but i feel evolution is starting at the wrong point.

NeoSeminole

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Re: you pick
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2006, 02:07:38 PM »
Okay, let's take a look at your original post since you think you merely "simplified" science.

the big bang comes from nothing( nothingness creates somethingness apparently on its own) to produce initially only light beams no matter no electrons neutrons nothing( this violates many laws already).

The Big Bang Theory makes no such claim. It describes the expansion of space-time. There is no mention of light beams in the theory.

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then it compresses on itself and through the famous e=mc2 produces only( neutrons, protons etc) into  hydrogen and helium which collapse on itself until it explodes into massive amounts of hydrgen and helium. this hydrogen and helium cannot make life but start to make heavier elements such as iron etc which are necessary for life. this forms the universe as we no it, the sun the stars the everything.

In the early universe, only hydrogen was present. Massive clouds of hydrogen collapsed and ignited in a process called fusion. This fusion produces new elements inside stars which are blasted out into space when stars undergo supernova.

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the sun forms and the earth forms at an incredibly percise spot were life is possible and is aloud to rotate unlike venus etc.. to keep free of complications. it is tilted perfectly with the moon at a perfect distance any deviation would result in collapse, i mean small fractional changes.

Your logic is flawed. The sun and earth did not form so that life may evolve, rather life evolved b/c of where the sun and the earth formed. Look at it this way. If the sun had been colder, you would be standing on Mars saying how fine tuned the solar system is for life.

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ok the earth cools and life begins immediately, not billions of years for life would not be here but immediately and with very little, some rocks water few elements. then for 3 billion years remain single cell according to the fossil record and boom all of a sudden 34 phyla formed at the same time in an instant as dated by the fossil record. photosynthesis starts immediately when the earth cools also.this refutes darwin as dated in the fossil record. so everything you see, every person every door, chair etc all came from a beam of light as happened from the big bang. we are light condensed into living matter.

Life did not begin immediately as you say. It is believed the earliest signs of life appeared 600 million years after the earth formed. These life forms were possibly derived from self-reproducing RNA molecules. The replication of these organisms required resources which soon became limited, resulting in natural selection. DNA molecules then took over as the main replicators. They began to develop inside enclosed membranes which provided a stable environment for replication: proto-cells. 100 million years passed before cells resembling prokaryotes appeared. These organisms were chemoautotrophs. Another 900 million years passed before photosynthesizing cyanobacteria evolved which produced oxygen. The oxygen concentration in the atmosphere subsequently rised. Eventually, more complex cells began to appear: the eukaryotes. After 2 billion years, the first multicellular organisms evolved. Natural selection fueled the evolutionary radiation that occured during the last 1 billion years.

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oh wait, inert matter becomes alive and conscious of it's exsistence and reproduces. but wait, why would bacteria reproduce did it want to increase its fitness. did it know it was going to die thus said i should reproduce.

Whether we evolved from non-living matter or god(s) made us, the fact remains abiogenesis did occur. We had to come from somewhere. I'm not really sure what initially caused life to reproduce.

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again we came from light beams this is a fact from the materialistic model.

Please show me one credible scientific article that states we evolved from light.

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now which sounds more ridicoulous that all this happened by chance which according to the champion of this theory is impossible after his retraction as seen in scientific america.  or did it have something behind it which planned created and acted upon the universe do it.

Which theory sounds more ridiculous is irrelevant. The fact remains there is ample evidence which support the Big Bang Theory, star formation theory, and evolution. However, there is no shred of evidence which proves the existence of god(s).

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we really are connected since we all came from beams of light first emitted from the big bang!

Ignorance must be bliss!

NeoSeminole

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Re: you pick
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2006, 02:27:42 PM »
you post pictures of skulls which are supposed transitional fossils of man. now let me refute you

neanderthal 1956 rejected in 1960's as a man with arthritis

hesperopithecus 1922, rejected 1927 as an extinct pig

1912 piltdown man, revealed in 1953 as a hoax by evolutionists

zinjanthropus 1958, rejected 1960's by later find

ramapithecus, rejected in 1929 as an extinct pig, was discoverd in 1964.

any other fossils were catergorized as co-habiting ape and man fossils by renouned palentologists.

how does that refute me? None of the fossils you mentioned are in my pic.

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again your theory goes beyond its application.

how so? I have yet to see anything from you that actually disproves evolution.

NeoSeminole

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Re: you pick
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2006, 02:38:29 PM »
answer this question using your theories, or laws or whatever. for one single rung of dna to come together the chances are 10 to the -87 or as some people with a brain like to call it impossible. again how did nothingness become somethingness?

oh really? Well, I read the prbability of DNA forming on its own is 10 to the -10. Anyone can make up their own statistics. Please show me your source. Regarding matter, we currently don't have an explanation. Maybe it has always existed. I don't see how this disproves the Big Bang Theory or evolution.

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merely saying we dont know can be used as an argument for creation too, god hasn't been seen yet but will be. it is moot so answer the question to the best of your ability if you will

the difference is that you jump to the conclusion that god(s) created the universe. This is faulty logic.

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also, evolution happens so slow we cant see it as touted by many or  in punctuated equilibrium which is too fast to see. ok that sounds logical, so again  we have the same data we are looking at it wrong, but i feel evolution is starting at the wrong point.

please expand b/c I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2006, 04:07:01 PM »
read about the big bang and you will dicover the electromagnetic radiation, light energy was the first formation, apply e=mc2 equals matter etc. i wont go over it again.

those fossils are in your pick name the fossils in your pick because i have no idea were you gleaned them from, i assumed they were since they appear however, i could be wrong but no transitional fossils have been found, out of the millions of fossils. i can post a link with a expert in palentology and the geological strata saying this and claiming fossils are mistakes, which they are.

it is a quote from a nuclear physicist and oceanography phd from mIt and with high level chemistry and biology as pertaining to dna sequencing( also, in scientific america, if you like i will elaborate). you avoid the fact and explain the evolution of bacteria all you want, from the fossil record 34 phyla are seen to happen abruptly, this is a fact and evolutionist reckon its good old
punctuated equilibrium( you familiar with the theory ). i again claim and state as fact that speciation has never been seen ever anywere on this planet.


as for the mars comment, that is a fallacy. tidal flows, difference in tilt, orbit, rotation would make life impossible. thinking of imaginary scenarios were life may be possible is fine, but stick to the facts. earth is in a huge delicate balance. also, you have no idea what cooler temps as you put it would create a optimal envoiroment the facts however refute you in that they state earth and the sun in relation to the planets is in a delicte balance which is highly improbable.

ok, your theory violates laws yet you cling to it, that is the big bang. it is a theory of creation in that the materialistic model states it as the first occurence in the universe, thus it is relevant to singularity. ok so the big bang is swirling around until it explodes violently to create this universe. so according to the law of angular momentum everything should be spinning the same way ala the big bang. why then do some planets rotate the opposite way? guess it just violates it but it is acceptable. lets not forget darwin was a atheist.

next point second law of thermodynamics you tend to not answer this point, everything tends towards chaos or decay. this is a fact yes. why then do organisms become more complex via bacteria to human. they contain no chlrophyll to harness the energy required to break this cycle and as you stated the first bacteria contained no pigment.

everything you say is conjecture and speculation about 600 million years, refs please.

ok so the earth was heated and cooled obviously then explain polonium halos in granite which refutes this adequetely.  also the term missing link comes up alot in evolution, perhaps because there is none.

also, moral code what is the standard, if it was learned then wouldn't generations exhibit different morals as expressed by the leaders ect. no it is innate, people may choose not to do right or wrong ( ie murderers, but knew the difference, this is a psychology concept) thus it is innate. that also seems rather strange.

also the universe is not superheavy as evidenced by data thus not self sustaining if that was an argument.

you describe the exact same sequence of events i did with more detail and proper names yet the ridiculousness shines through. ok back to singularity. i say god created matter you say what created matter dirt, nothingness. both are religions inherently my friend i just think my explains more. and if you say you dont know what created matter then why do you reject god, seems logical more so then nothingness surely nothingness cannot create somethingness wouldn't you agree

and my point about punctuated equilibrium is that evolutionist come up with different models that we cant observe to justify their beliefs again it is a religion based on faith. amen.

NeoSeminole

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Re: you pick
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2006, 06:08:00 PM »
read about the big bang and you will dicover the electromagnetic radiation, light energy was the first formation, apply e=mc2 equals matter etc. i wont go over it again.

The Big Bang Theory states no such thing. Furthermore, the "light energy" you speak of is one of the products that was released from the initial expansion. Matter was also present in the form of protons and neutrons. Get your facts straight.

Wilkinson Microwave Anisotrophy Probe
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html

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those fossils are in your pick name the fossils in your pick because i have no idea were you gleaned them from, i assumed they were since they appear however, i could be wrong but no transitional fossils have been found, out of the millions of fossils. i can post a link with a expert in palentology and the geological strata saying this and claiming fossils are mistakes, which they are. it is a quote from a nuclear physicist and oceanography phd from mIt and with high level chemistry and biology as pertaining to dna sequencing( also, in scientific america, if you like i will elaborate).

Here is the list of fossils in the pic.



Pan troglodytes, chimpanzee, modern
(B) Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
(C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
(D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
(E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
(F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
(G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
(H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
(I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
(J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
(K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
(L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
(M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
(N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern

Chimpanzees are the closest living relatives of humans. Evolution predicts we share a common ancestor. Therefore, we expect that organisms lived in the past which were intermediate in morphology between humans and chimpanzees. The aforementioned fossils demonstrate characterisitcs unique to both organisms. By definition, they are transitional fossils. You can go ahead and post the article where an expert claims some fossils were faked. This does not disprove the plethora of genuine fossils discovered. It merely proves that some of the fossils he studied were fake.

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you avoid the fact and explain the evolution of bacteria all you want, from the fossil record 34 phyla are seen to happen abruptly, this is a fact and evolutionist reckon its good old punctuated equilibrium( you familiar with the theory ). i again claim and state as fact that speciation has never been seen ever anywere on this planet.

Evolution theory predicts that there have been millions of transitional organisms. It does not predict that all these organisms were preserved as fossils. Just b/c there are gaps in the fossil record does not mean we can jump to the conclusion that no more fossils are left to be discovered.

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as for the mars comment, that is a fallacy. tidal flows, difference in tilt, orbit, rotation would make life impossible. thinking of imaginary scenarios were life may be possible is fine, but stick to the facts. earth is in a huge delicate balance. also, you have no idea what cooler temps as you put it would create a optimal envoiroment the facts however refute you in that they state earth and the sun in relation to the planets is in a delicte balance which is highly improbable.

No, facts do not refute me. I was raising a point in my last post - how can you say earth is fine tuned for life when you have nothing to compare to? For all we know, aliens in a distant galaxy with a sun different than our own could be saying the same thing about their planet. The reason you have difficulty comprehending this is b/c your logic is flawed. The sun and earth did not form so that life may evolve, rather life evolved b/c of where the sun and the earth formed.

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ok, your theory violates laws yet you cling to it, that is the big bang. it is a theory of creation in that the materialistic model states it as the first occurence in the universe, thus it is relevant to singularity. ok so the big bang is swirling around until it explodes violently to create this universe. so according to the law of angular momentum everything should be spinning the same way ala the big bang. why then do some planets rotate the opposite way? guess it just violates it but it is acceptable. lets not forget darwin was a atheist.

The Big Bang Theory does not violate any laws. If it did, then I assure you it would no longer be a scientific theory. The theory never states the big bang swirled around until it exploded to create the univese. In fact, your arguments are beginning to sound exactly like "Dr." Hovind's. He was refuted years ago by leading scientists. Who cares if Darwin was an atheist? I don't see how that changes anything.

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next point second law of thermodynamics you tend to not answer this point, everything tends towards chaos or decay. this is a fact yes. why then do organisms become more complex via bacteria to human. they contain no chlrophyll to harness the energy required to break this cycle and as you stated the first bacteria contained no pigment.

I've already explained this to you. Do you not read my posts? Evolution does not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics b/c life is an open system. We recieve our energy from the sun. Plants convert photoenergy into chemical energy which is used by animals. The earliest forms of life probably did not require energy in the sense you think. They most likely incorporated molecules to replicate themselves much like viruses.

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everything you say is conjecture and speculation about 600 million years, refs please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution

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ok so the earth was heated and cooled obviously then explain polonium halos in granite which refutes this adequetely.  also the term missing link comes up alot in evolution, perhaps because there is none.

Sorry, but you can do your own research. You ask me a barrage of questions and then expect me to answer every single one of them. I will not waist my time lecturing you whenever you have a question, especially when keep repeating the same ignorant comments over and over. God gave you 2 hands and a brain - now use them! ;)

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also, moral code what is the standard, if it was learned then wouldn't generations exhibit different morals as expressed by the leaders ect. no it is innate, people may choose not to do right or wrong ( ie murderers, but knew the difference, this is a psychology concept) thus it is innate. that also seems rather strange.

This has nothing to do with evolution. Look up moral philosophy.

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also the universe is not superheavy as evidenced by data thus not self sustaining if that was an argument.

I don't know what you are talking about. Please explain.

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you describe the exact same sequence of events i did with more detail and proper names yet the ridiculousness shines through. ok back to singularity. i say god created matter you say what created matter dirt, nothingness. both are religions inherently my friend i just think my explains more. and if you say you dont know what created matter then why do you reject god, seems logical more so then nothingness surely nothingness cannot create somethingness wouldn't you agree

The Big Bang Theory is not a religion. Science uses evidence to support theories. Belief in a god(s) requires a leap of faith b/c there is no evidence.

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and my point about punctuated equilibrium is that evolutionist come up with different models that we cant observe to justify their beliefs again it is a religion based on faith. amen.

Evolutionists use the fossil record, stratigraphy, radiometric dating, embryology, comparative homology, and molecular biology to study evolution. There is a wealth of evidence that supports macroevolution. You assume that it never happened b/c nobody has ever witnessed it. Unfortunately, you are wrong. The law uses a similar process called forensics to piece together events that occured without a witness. Using your logic, thousands of criminals should be let free b/c nobody ever saw them commit a crime. Maybe all the detectives were wrong. ::)

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Re: you pick
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2006, 06:52:25 PM »
nice avoidance of the polonium argument ???.  your link states what i stated. i will post the video of the nuclear physicists refuting you, he was instrumental in converting antony flew.

ok who refuted hovind? ive seen a few debates and read some of his material. which person refuted him publicly and not behind a computer with no accountability? he demolished every evolutionist i saw, however i haven't seen a video or debate in a while. you tell me who won the debate against him, please because in my estimation he makes the brights look stupid and anyone with a brain can watch the debates and sense the defeat ruminating from them. i am not ignorant my friend, you are. so here watch this video and have a refute.

again im not asking you questions im merely asking rhetorical questions if you will, much like you that point to flaws. its funny you said look up the polonium answer since there is none and you perhaps know it. if strata form slowly over millions of years then why is there upright petrified trees found in the strata. would seem impossible.

who publicly debate hovind and won. i would love to see that debate, would be interesting none the less.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2006, 06:55:43 PM »
here is the video, also stop saying things like holding my hand and such when all you do is post links and pretend it reflects your intelligence again, i dont wish to google fight with you as it is pointless.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3548833227680975011&q=god+and+the+universe

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Re: you pick
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2006, 06:58:46 PM »
you mean this information about hovind. come on bro this is pure tatical attacks and personal conjecture with editing. show me a debate.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2906061784102082283&q=evolution+versus+creation

this is a sad excuse for an argument ::)

NeoSeminole

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Re: you pick
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2006, 11:59:40 PM »
nice avoidance of the polonium argument ???.  your link states what i stated. i will post the video of the nuclear physicists refuting you, he was instrumental in converting antony flew.

Honestly, I was in a hurry to go workout. You ask me a barrage of questions and then expect me to answer every single one of them. The reason I skipped your polonium argument is b/c I've never heard of it. I'm able to respond quickly to most of your posts b/c I know a lot of the answers off the top of my head.

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ok who refuted hovind? ive seen a few debates and read some of his material. which person refuted him publicly and not behind a computer with no accountability? he demolished every evolutionist i saw, however i haven't seen a video or debate in a while. you tell me who won the debate against him, please because in my estimation he makes the brights look stupid and anyone with a brain can watch the debates and sense the defeat ruminating from them. i am not ignorant my friend, you are. so here watch this video and have a refute.

It's very difficult to find oral debates between Hovind and scientists. They are not only scarce on the web, but he also charges for them. The problem is further compounded by the fact that many reputable scientists refuse to engage in an oral debate with him. He spits out many lies so rapidly that it's impossible to counter all of them in an oral debate. Here's one example (note: this is just 1 of 6 pages).

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-yea.html

As you can see, the amount of effort and time spent refuting only 15 of his lies is far far greater than the amount of time it takes for him to spread them. Hovind relies on a rapid assault of misconceptions and his fake credentials to impress gullible audiences. However, he avoids written debates where his arguments can be examined in detail like the plague. These sites do a great job of exposing his lies.

Analysis of Kent Hovind
http://www.kent-hovind.com

A Close Look at Dr. Hovind's List of Young-Earth Arguments and Other Claims
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html

Till-Hovind Debate
http://www.skeptictank.org/hovind2.htm

A Response to Kent Hovind's Coast-to-Coast AM Interview
http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/hovind_fractured_fairy_tales.htm

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again im not asking you questions im merely asking rhetorical questions if you will, much like you that point to flaws. its funny you said look up the polonium answer since there is none and you perhaps know it. if strata form slowly over millions of years then why is there upright petrified trees found in the strata. would seem impossible.

I told you to look it up b/c I was in a hurry to workout. Many of the ignorant comments you make can be avoided if you simply did research on your own. For example, you could have looked up the Big Bang Theory or evolution. I am under the impression that you get many of your "facts" from religious websites.

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who publicly debate hovind and won. i would love to see that debate, would be interesting none the less.

Hovind is too afraid to engage in a written public debate. So the answer is none that I'm aware of. I would like to see these debates he won against reputable scientists that you speak of. I wouldn't be surprised if he debated with an english or religion professor.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2006, 12:11:30 AM »
also stop saying things like holding my hand and such when all you do is post links and pretend it reflects your intelligence again, i dont wish to google fight with you as it is pointless.

You think all I do is post links, huh? I must be imagining the words in my posts. ::)

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Re: you pick
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2006, 12:17:57 AM »
you mean this information about hovind. come on bro this is pure tatical attacks and personal conjecture with editing. show me a debate.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2906061784102082283&q=evolution+versus+creation

this is a sad excuse for an argument.

Not really, I find that video does a good job of exposing Kent Hovind's lies. This video does a better job.



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Re: you pick
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2006, 06:36:27 AM »
The shrinking-sun argument contains two errors. The worst, by far, is the assumption that if the sun is shrinking today, then it has always been shrinking!

here is the argument against the sun shrinking. so inference from current situations and extrapolations doesn't equal science, hmmm that is science, that is the best we can do that is exactly what radiometric data is. plus to do radiometric data is based on numerous assumptions. refute the first video if you will, i read your link and will watch your video. in plain words a phd physicist will describe the big bang to you so you have it straight, unless he is a gross liar or mis-informed which i doubt you are wrong. your link also states that electromagnetic light was the first occurence after the big bang. watch it, i dont get my information from the religious sites as you claim most of what i say is from books but i have looked at religious site, i mean isn't that the base of my argument, looking at skeptic magazine sites isn't going to find me proof.

your link is from a skeptic site, jeez i wonder what there going to say about kent hovind

heres kent pwning dr shermer, the cheif editor of skeptic magazine.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1410330225420430733&q=kent+hovind

here he is ass raping another doctor. this one is funny the crowd even laughs at the professor when he says "no" there is no evidence what soever of inorganic to organic matter. then he says he beleives in god and starts making stupid arguments and waiting off to the side.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4440517326780624645&q=kent+hovind

anyway you decide who won but i think it's clear.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2006, 06:40:43 AM »
also, you must get all your info from skeptic sites because he'll debate anyone one on one but that's not good enough he has to write a debate. i already know what he's going to say he doesn't have different arguments watch the slide. so your telling me a doctor cannot figure out rebuttles to his material from previous arguments and debate them live, they have to do a lengthy email debate which is what we are doing which is wholely worse then physical debates. you can cry foul about the debates all you want but the couple i posted with mike shermer prove my point not yours.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2006, 07:01:00 AM »
im not asking you anything these questions are simply questions that are rhetorical in priciple, i will state them next time so you dont think im begging you to find a link i could easily find, which is a way to make me seem less intelligent ad hominen.

funny thing is when i took a couple days to respond you claimed i was frustrated yet i respond immediately to your posts and you took how long to write back on the refute this atheist thread?

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Re: you pick
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2006, 07:25:30 AM »
here is a link to the conversion of antony flew to deism. look at the books he says were instrumental i think you'll be happy when reading them.

http://www.existence-of-god.com/flew-abandons-atheism.html

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Re: you pick
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2006, 12:43:38 PM »
you dont have a very good understanding of the big bang my friend. you say light wasn't the first circumstance in time then post an article saying exactly what i said, the big bang first emitted electromagnetic radiation, you know what that is right. so no matter was initially present.

NeoSeminole

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Re: you pick
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2006, 02:23:42 PM »
The shrinking-sun argument contains two errors. The worst, by far, is the assumption that if the sun is shrinking today, then it has always been shrinking!

The "shrinking sun" argument has been thoroughly discredited and is rejected even by many creationist organizations. It is a classic example of misuse of data and a failure to correct mistakes. The problems with this argument is that the data do not show the sun to be shrinking but rather remaining fairly constant in size with slight oscillation, and it assumes that the rate of shrinkage is constant. This assumption is baseless. Other stars expand and contract cyclically. So there's no reason to think our own sun doesn't do the same on a small scale.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-yea.html#proof1

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here is the argument against the sun shrinking. so inference from current situations and extrapolations doesn't equal science, hmmm that is science, that is the best we can do that is exactly what radiometric data is. plus to do radiometric data is based on numerous assumptions. refute the first video if you will, i read your link and will watch your video. in plain words a phd physicist will describe the big bang to you so you have it straight, unless he is a gross liar or mis-informed which i doubt you are wrong. your link also states that electromagnetic light was the first occurence after the big bang. watch it, i dont get my information from the religious sites as you claim most of what i say is from books but i have looked at religious site, i mean isn't that the base of my argument, looking at skeptic magazine sites isn't going to find me proof.

your link is from a skeptic site, jeez i wonder what there going to say about kent hovind

Are you kidding me? Looking at skeptic resources is what will lead you to the truth; not biased religious books that are clearly anti-evolution. It was skeptics who disproved the earth is flat or that rodents evolved from decaying meat. No wonder your understanding of science is warped.

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heres kent pwning dr shermer, the cheif editor of skeptic magazine.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1410330225420430733&q=kent+hovind

Give me a break! I just watched the whole video. Kent Hovind spreads so many lies and misconceptions in a short amount of time, it's pathetic. Here a just a few of them. I got tired of refuting him after a while.  

"Would you please explain to me how we get a tree petrified connecting all these [strata] layers? I don't know how long dead trees stand up around here in California before they fall down, but in Florida you get maybe 5 or 6 years. Anybody telling you those layers are different ages has a problem in his thinking."

Fossilized vertical tree trunks do not disprove evolution or an old earth. The strata associated with polystrate fossils is simply evidence of rapid deposition. For example, the 1993 Mississippi River flooded and dumped up to 6 feet of sand on the forests and farm fields of the Midwest. This had the effect of killing millions of trees whose trunks are now polystrate tree trunks. They are firmly rooted in the pre-1993 sediments and their trunks extend through the next layer.

"Evolution is not part of science. Evolution is a religion."

Wrong. Religion is the set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. By its nature, religion is built on faith. There is no shred of evidence which proves the existence of god(s). The theory of evolution describes the change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation. There is ample evidence which support evolutionary theory. Thus, evolution is not a religion.

"The word evolution has really 6 different meanings or levels or stages... cosmic, chemical, stellar, organic, macro-evolution, and micro-evolution."

No. Hovind creates his own definition of evolution that links dissimilar processes under a single rubric. He believes there is some all-encompassing "general theory of evolution" that includes cosmology, astrophysics, abiogenesis, and biological evolution. The first 3 have nothing to do with the theory of evolution.

"According to the Big Bang Theory, the Big Bang produced hydrogen."

The Big Bang Theory makes no such claim. It describes the expansion of space-time.

"You got a chicken and an egg problem. Did the elements come before the stars? See, the elements make up the stars and stars make up the elements. Which one came first? They got a real chicken and an egg problem when it comes to chemical evolution."

No, only 1 element is used in the formation of stars - hydrogen. Stars produce heavier elements in a process called fusion. These heavy elements are cast out into space, which are then incorporated to form planets, moons, and asteroids.

"The evolutionist is still left 200 years behind the times in science. They still believe non-living material can spontaneously generate."

This is a blatant lie by Hovind to mislead gullible audiences. There are no evolutionists who still believe in spontaneous generation - the formation of complex life from decaying organic substances. In fact, it was disproven over 300 yrs ago. What evolutionists believe is that life came from non-living matter. Although we are uncertain of the mechanism responsible, the fact remains abiogenesis did occur. We had to come from somewhere.

"Nobody has made life and if a bunch of intelligent people do get together and make life, that would prove it takes intelligence to make life. Duh."

Hovind's logic is flawed here. Scientists can simulate tornados and lightning in laboratory experiments. This does not prove that nature has an intelligence. All it does is demonstrate what conditions are necessary for these to occur.

"Evolution theory teaches 20 billion years ago, or sometime in the past like that, there was a big bang where nothing exploded."

No, it doesn't. Evolutionary theory describes the change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation. This has nothing to do with cosmology. Furthermore, the Big Bang Theory is not about the origin of the universe but rather its development with time. It does not say something came from nothing.

"Evolution is the dumbest and most dangerous idea in the history of the world! Evolution theory leads straight to Hitler, Stalin, Pot Pot, abortion, communism, Marxism, rejection of lgoic and Hell if you don't trust Christ!"

::)

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here he is ass raping another doctor. this one is funny the crowd even laughs at the professor when he says "no" there is no evidence what soever of inorganic to organic matter. then he says he beleives in god and starts making stupid arguments and waiting off to the side.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4440517326780624645&q=kent+hovind

anyway you decide who won but i think it's clear.

Okay, I have watched the video. I will refute some of his comments here. There are just too many to list. Even Dr. James Paulson says that it is impossible for him to refute every single one of Kent Hovind's lies in the time he is alloted to speak. I don't know what makes you think Hovind delivered an "ass raping" when it's clear his arguments are full of shit.

"Nobody has ever nailed down a good hard solid definition of species. The examples he (Dr. James Paulson) gave of the gulls not being able to interbreed, well stand 30 feet away and look at it. It's still a bird, okay? It's a gull. That's not evolution."

There is no 1 clear-cut definition of a species b/c evolution is ongoing. Some species are in the process of forming while others are recently formed and difficult to interpret. The main definition of a species is the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species. Kent Hovind's argument that all species of gull are the same b/c they look like a bird is laughable at best. This does nothing to discredit evolution.

"To say that a dog and a wolf have a common ancestor is reasonsible. It's wise. That's sensible. To say that a dog and banana have a common ancestor is not wise and not reasonsible and not sensible. Now if you want to believe that, that's fine but that's not science."

Hovind says a dog and banana do not share a common ancestor, yet he offers absolutely no proof to back up his claim. Studies in molecular biology show that all organisms on earth have DNA in common.

"Evolution is a religion."

Wrong. There is ample evidence which support evolutionary theory. Thus, evolution is not a religion.

"It (evolution) violates the first and second laws of thermodynamics."

No, it doesn't. We've already discussed this.

"There are 6 different meanings to the word evolution... cosmic, chemical, stellar, organic, macro-evolution, and micro-evolution."

See above.

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Re: you pick
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2006, 03:11:03 PM »
i understand your arguments against hovind. however, we are arguing creation and going back and forth on big bang evolution, basically god versus science. i will respond to your posts however.

NeoSeminole

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Re: you pick
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2006, 04:05:16 PM »
I was merely responding to your posts. You claimed Kent Hovind "demolished every evolutionists" you saw. I refuted many of his lies from the links you provided to prove he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm not here to argue science vs god b/c that would be pointless. God will lose everytime. I am simply defending evolution and The Big Bang against your ignorant comments.