http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/10/report-patriots-bring-spies-to-meadowlands-steal-signs-from-j/ (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/10/report-patriots-bring-spies-to-meadowlands-steal-signs-from-j/)
Posted Sep 10th 2007 11:48AM by Dan Benton
Filed under: Jets, Patriots, AFC East, NFL Rumors, New York
The rumors and gossip that surround the New York Jets and New England Patriots never cease to amaze me. All week long we had heard about the Jets bringing in Patriots spies, and the Patriots bringing in Jets spies. But as game time approached, all that nonsense seemed to get thrown out the window. Well, at least until late last night.
According to a report by Dan Leberfeld of Scout.com, Bill Belichick and the Patriots may have brought one of their spies to the game yesterday after all. As if the Patriots weren't good enough, they apparently felt the need to "steal signs."
According to a Meadowlands source, a member of the Patriots organization, with a credential issued by the team, was spotted by Jets security chief Steve Yarnell shooting near the New York bench. And according to the stadium source, when questioned by Yarnell, the unnamed individual said that he was put up to it by the Patriots.
The cameraman was reportedly accused by Yarnell of shooting the Jets' signals that were being sent by the coaches from the sidelines.
The source says that the NFL is being made aware of this accusation. If this is true, the Patriots could be subject to a serious punishment from the league office.
As Leberfeld noted, if this turns out to be true, the Patriots will face some serious disciplinary action. At the same time, there does not appear to be enough evidence (yet) to substantiate this rumor. For the time being, you should take it with a grain of salt.
Should anyone really be surprised?
Eli played great, actually. Their defense is terrible, like I said it would be. By the way, I wholly expect the Chargers to beat the Pats this week. ;)
Oh, by the way, this thread has nothing to do with me. It has to do with the fact that this is the second time in a year the Pats have been suspected of stealing signals. Let me guess, this is another Rodney-esque thing. Everyone does it, but only the Pats get caught? hahahaha!
First they cheer there own qb when he gets injured, now they need to make excuses as to why the got there asses kicked 6 ways to sunday. All while the pats where missing 2 all pro defensive players,Mike Wright and a great pass catching tight end in David Thomas. Classic jets!!
Maybe the "Mangenious" should start running a 4 /3 since his personal is clearly suited for that scheme. Belichick took him to school yesterday.
Totally classless on the parts of New York fans. He was 17-19 when he got hurt.
meh... this kind of shit has been happening for years
And the fans cheering when Pennington got hurt was disgraceful.
I was being sarcastic about the Chargers. Though, I do expect they'll beat the Pats. Best team in the NFL!!!! ;)
I only heard about this from the media. When the cheering happened, was he lying on the field, or was he limping/being carted off the field?
Isn't it customary all over America to cheer when the injured player is removed from the field?
Chad got sacked and injured. As he was hobbling of the field falling and writhing in agony the fans cheered his backup Kellen Clemens when he was jogging out.
Kellen had a good camp, chad did not. Jets fans basically where cheering Chad for having to leave the game. Which is halarious since anyone with a brain knows the jets had a better chance with Penn in there.
Thanks.
Sounds like their reaction may have been a bit questionable, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If their guy was up and was leaving the field, then cheering was the appropriate response.
Looks like Goodell has ruled that they were in-fact cheating. Is anyone surprised? This team is the least classiest in the league.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677
Scumbag players, scumbag coaches, scumbag fans!
This is where Body88 comes in and tries to justify them cheating, and this isn't the first time they've been caught doing it. ::)
I know there is a saying "if you aint cheatin, you aint trying" but damn. lol.
Halftime adjustments my a$$. ;D
Damn, Body88. I'm sorry but that's some shady shit.
The real question is this: How many times in the past have the Patriots done this?
Also, how many other teams are doing it?
you think the pats are the only teams doing this? This is halarious.
Got. Caught.
What a bunch of sleezebags.
The real question is how long have they been doing it and how many of their Super Bowl wins now should be denoted by an asterisk.
Oh, and LT was right.
You think a team can change an entire defensive gameplan based on video tape they took of hundreds of signals during the game?
Having played a ton of football in my life. Yes.
....especially if you already have a nice database of already gathered footage and signals from previous gameplay.
Add that with the "radio frequency issues that occurred during the game." and there is no telling what kind of two way comm these guys had going on that entire half.
Once a simple "sky" or cover 1 signal is picked up from a hand gesture a simple audible sent from whomever to the QB helmet of brady is all you need to dissect those db's.
Don't get me wrong it was a slick idea, but they got greedy,got sloppy and got caught.
\
I am waiting until all the facts come out. There is no way you are going to change an entire gameplan in one half. Just my opinion.
I hear ya.
We'll know on Friday, it's still early.
you think the pats are the only teams doing this? Stealing signs in sports is nothing new. Dont you remember Denver and the niners getting bagged cheating the cap. Merimen on the sauce. Im sure the ravens coaches know about Rays hgh use. You yourself said it was common knowledge. Turning a blind eye are they? Rodney on hgh. People try to get an edge. You yourself said drugs are a huge part of sports. Stealing sings has been around since sports have been around. Peter King says the colts are also well known for this also. Just so happens someone mad about losing did some digging and nabbed the pats. Which is fine they where dumb and got caught. They deserve punishment. When all the facts come out I may call people out. Not till then.
Its not that huge of a deal. If anyone thinks attempting to steal signs, decipher hundreds of calls and change an entire defensive gameplan built over weeks is possible in a half of football good luck to em. Its to try to get an edge. And its the pats. So of course everyone is going apeshit.
Am I dissapointed yea. But i mean stealing signs? Stupid yes, a huge deal no. The only illegal thing the did was tape them. You can steal sings all day minus a video cam. I think they should be punished for sure. I also think this is being blown up because its the pats.
Looks like they are the only ones. While no one else has been caught, this is the SECOND time in a year that the Pats have been caught doing shady shit. Stop trying to lump those cheating scumbags into the rest of the crowd. What next? Paying off other players for the teams playbooks? How low will New England stoop? The refs are susceptible to bribes I'll bet! Ol' Bill's hiding something up that shitstained hoodie of his!
Yo u dont even know all the facts yet. And the pats havent been the "only" ones' Let the facts come out before you start howling.
This is the second time in the span of a year that the Pats have been caught doing suspicious activity with cameras. Meanwhile, no one else has been caught doing it, but I guess we might as well lump them in with those cheating scumbags! How LOW WILL THE PATRIOTS STOOP? Are winning games (not going to win the SB) that important that one is willing to destroy all self-respect?!?!?!?!?! Apparently! Bum bum bum!!!!
Just to let you know they werent caught doing anything last year. The pats accused the phins of stealing there audio and nothing was done. The jets where accused of tamperiong with Asante and nothing was done. Now that the pats get caught up in OMG maybe stealing signs they are public enemy number one.
I mean honestly you ignore guys like merimen who is on your favorite team (this year) and bash on the pats. I dont even know why im trying to talk about this with you.
What about Merriman? Let us not forget that Rodney is serving a 4 game suspension for HGH, dickhead. Cheating players, cheating coaches, scumbag fans. Great organization!!! HOW LOW WILL THEY STOOP? I wouldn't be surprised to find out their bribing refs too!
By the way, I rooted for the Chargers in 3rd grade when they lost to the 49ers. We had these like Olympic type games in my class, divided between the two teams. There were 4 of us for the Chargers (the best athletes in the class) versus about 20 for the 49'ers. We absolutely dominated to boot. I knew from that day on I'd be a winner at life. 21 now and nothing's changed!
Let's go SD and G-Men!!!!
The lengths these Pats clowns will stoop to in their quest to lose another AFC title game. What next? Sneaking into stadiums at 2 am on a Saturday night to flood the turf or something? Maybe slipping itching powder in the other teams cleats? These clowns have no morals or standards!!! It's preposterous that Body sits there justifying their scumbaggish ways. To the scumbag team goes the scumbag fans!
Your boy lt's teamate is a admitted drug user.
While I am dissapointed, stealing signs in pro sports is not exactly anything new.
I may be wrong, but didn't SM serve his suspension?
And didn't RH of the Pats just admit to using HGH as well?
If the guys on the field crack a team's audible code or hand signals, that's FINE.
What the Patriots guy did went well beyond that.
Why do coaches cover their mouths when calling in plays ;)
Honestly i'm so pissed over this..everybody at work is giving me shit. I have vanity plates that say NEPATS1..i feel like its should read "we cheat"...this whole thing sucks. They're saying 3rd and 5th rd draft picks over 2 season....fair enough to me. Maybe a million dollar fine....if Kraft can use his influence, i'd want to be that Goodell makes his rulling quickly, fairly and we can move on. The less distraction the better before the Bolts game. Body what's the radio saying up there.
hahahaha, once a cheater, always a cheater apparently. These Pats and their fans will do anything just to lose another AFC title game. Unreal.
There saying a lot of things that are not going to be true. The leauge flat out said they didnt confirm the patriots "cheated". I posted the article earlier. People yelling cheat and all that are just trying to get a rise. Most dont even know the actual facts of the story. The pats are being made the example of a leauge wide issue. The got caught so they have to pay the piper. This is being blown wayyyyyyy out of proportion.
The jets confiscated that tape before the end of halftime. They reported they new about the guy all game. Fact is the pats prob tried to expolit a tactic that no one enforced. They screwed up.
The broncos had to give up[ a few third round picks for messing with the cap over and over. Something alone those lines prob.
They may have not used the word "cheated" but the NFL said the video evidence is enough to verify the accusation. The NFL is going to hand down a punishment after the Patriots speak on their own behalf by Friday.
Why would a punishment be handed down by the NFL if you're claiming there's only been speculation of cheating? Goddell made his own determination after watching the video evidence himself. You're going to lose some draft picks in the future. That to me implies that the NFL believes that the Patriots were conducting actions that parallel cheating.
They did cheat. Goodell is handing down a punishment. Why would he if the Patriots didn't cheat?
Can't wait to see what they try to do for the Chargers. I'm suspecting a drive by as LT goes to get in his car on gameday. ::)
Not true. Lt dont drive no car. He rides on white clouds held up by angels. With you swinging from his bag of course.
Thats not true. The official statement has them violating league policy. Which is using video equipment on the field. If the came was confiscated before the pats used it how did they cheat?
Until Friday we dont know for sure what happened.
The most patient mod on the whole site. Dare I say the best mod? ;D
Not true. Lt dont drive no car. He rides on white clouds held up by angels. With you swinging from his bag of course.
Okay. But doesn't "violating league policy" warrant punishments most of the time by the NFL? (i,e a failed drug test.)
What other accusations against the Pats are on the table other than suspicion of cheating? The team is being accused of using a camera in a way that constitutes obvious cheating. Goodell has the seen the evidence. A punishment is being handed down based on what Goodell has interepreted as obvious cheating.
The Pats did something. If it's not cheating then what else could it be that could warrant a punishment severe enough to have future draft picks taken away from the team?
Spin it anyway you like, my friend. Just because the word "cheating" wasn't used in Goodell's statement, doesn't mean that the Pats are not being accused of it.
Here's the latest article:
Sources: Goodell determines Pats broke rules by taping Jets' signals
By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: September 12, 2007, 11:10 AM ET
Comment
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the New England Patriots violated league rules Sunday when they videotaped defensive signals by the New York Jets' coaches, according to league sources.
NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.
Goodell is considering severe sanctions, including the possibility of docking the Patriots "multiple draft picks" because it is the competitive violation in the wake of a stern warning to all teams since he became commissioner, the sources said. The Patriots have been suspected in previous incidents.
The Patriots will be allowed an opportunity to present their case by Friday, sources said, most likely via the telephone.
NONE of this confirms that Goodell thinks the Pats cheated in anyway?
I hope the Pats lose a 1st round pick for this.
Belichick was very stupid for authorizing the video taping of a former associate's signal calling. Very uncharacteristic...
I can't believe he was that dumb.
win if u can
lose if u must
but always cheat ;D
Did coach genius cheat on his wife as well?
They wont.One can only hope.
Didn't know my was spelled "Body88". Tell me, does Tom prefer a blowjob or prostate exam before games from you?
One can only hope.
The rules are clear about the violation. I dislike cheaters. I hate cheaters who cheat stupidly.
The pats were my second favorite team. Not anymore.
One can only hope.
The rules are clear about the violation. I dislike cheaters. I hate cheaters who cheat stupidly.
They wont.
The broncos lost a third and a fifth for messing with the cap after repeated warnings. Niners along the same lines. Stealing signs is common place in the nfl. The pats where dumb enough to get caught. What they did was have a cam present on the field. There is no rule against stealing signs its taping them with a cam thats wrong. A first round pick would be overkill. Especially since the tape was confiscated before the pats even looked at it. The jets new about the "guy" all game. There own words."Everybody does it" is a weak defense. Stealing signs goes on all the time. Video taping signs is different. Why? B/c the rules say so.
Wheres the punishment for the phins stealing audio, or Mangini tampering last year? The fact is the pats are being mad an example. What they did was wrong, but if you think stealing sings is this massive finding you would be nieve.
I have to wait until I hear official word from the nfl before I form an opinion. Since they flat out said they did not confirm the pats cheated at anything. They merley said they violated leauge rules. When Goodel issues his statement we shall see what they actually did.
Im not saying what the pats did was ok, Im saying wait until you hear from the boss on what is going on. Most these writers freaking out are the same guys who had moss being traded last week.
"Everybody does it" is a weak defense. Stealing signs goes on all the time. Video taping signs is different. Why? B/c the rules say so.
Good thing im not using that as a defense.You use an iteration of it: everybody breaks rules...
Hahaha.you mentioned that once in awhile you play golf.I can imagine your internet "persona" playing golf ;D
your golf balls with pics of antcraw and pumphard on them ;D
make a long put and screaming"I pwoned you bitch" ;D
crushing a long drive and screaming "get off my scrotum bluto" ;D
;D ;D ;D
"Everybody does it" is a weak defense. Stealing signs goes on all the time. Video taping signs is different. Why? B/c the rules say so.
How do you know video taping signs doesn't go on all the time? Do you really believe in the world of the NFL that Belichick is the only coach to employ such methods? There are current and former NFL players and coaches coming out of the woodwork now commenting on how this is common practice.
If a particular practice is relatively common league wide then why isn't the outrage directed at the act itself and not just the coach/player that was caught? I view this particular episode the same way I view performance enhancing drugs in the NFL. They are a common practice and until they are totally eliminated those individuals that are caught will not outrage me.
I felt the same way about Merriman as I do Harrison.
He was caught and he'll pay the price but to condemn the man for an action that many others do while not condemning them as well is unfair.
I love the people claiming this had an outcome on the jets game. The tape was confiscated in the first quarter, lol. before the pats even had a chance to look at it. Whatever makes the jets feel better!
Who would think this made a difference?
The Jets got spanked.
I love the people claiming this had an outcome on the jets game. The tape was confiscated in the first quarter, lol. before the pats even had a chance to look at it. Whatever makes the jets feel better!
I don't think it played an outcome in the game but it could have, even though it was removed in the first quarter. Match up the hand signal to the polaroid taken before each play, and you can figure out what hand signal means when that formation comes up again.
I just wonder, if it had no outcome on the game, Why do it in the first place?
The Jets suck. I mean save it for next week when San Diego comes to town.
How do you know video taping signs doesn't go on all the time? Do you really believe in the world of the NFL that Belichick is the only coach to employ such methods? ....I don't know if video taping signs doesn't go on all the time. I also don't know if other coaches have employed the same method.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070912That is a great article. In all honesty, the Pats were my favorite team right behind GB. I still think Brady is the greatest.
Great article on this.....
It has been confirmed the pats never saw the tape. It had absolutly no outcome at all. You need to look at the tape to do what you are proposing. Impossible since the camera man never gave the pats the tape. And when searched had no communication devices on him. What the pats where doing was trying to exploit a loophole in the nfl rulebook. It is illegal to tape and use signals for a game in progress. It is however not illegal to tape signals archive them and review them later. Nfl teams do anything they can yo get an advantage. Unfortunatly for Bill the loophole will not be allowed.
I don't know if video taping signs doesn't go on all the time. I also don't know if other coaches have employed the same method.
What I do know is is that Belicheat got caught for video taping signals of an opponent. That's cheating.
Everything you said is probably true, but Belichick got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
It's like speeding, everybody does it but if you're caught by the cops, you pay the penalty.
On the other hand, what should the NFL do? Turn a blind eye to a cheater caught red-handed?
That's bad policy.
They said on EEI that in addition to taping, the camerman was signaling as well. I haven't paid attention - has this been refuted?
The Speeding analogy is an excellent one. I don't think the NFL should turn a blind eye, I think Belichick should pay the price and move on. My question is regarding certain people's reactions. This is being blown way out of proportion with some people. The Pats are an excellent team and an easy target right now. Like HH said, if this were Tampa Bay everyone would have stopped talking about it by now.
The Speeding analogy is an excellent one. I don't think the NFL should turn a blind eye, I think Belichick should pay the price and move on. My question is regarding certain people's reactions. This is being blown way out of proportion with some people. The Pats are an excellent team and an easy target right now. Like HH said, if this were Tampa Bay everyone would have stopped talking about it by now.Thanks. I see your point.
Yes its been refuted. In order to match signals with hundreds of hand signals you need the tape. The guy was not taping and frantically signlaing the pats all game. The patriots kicked the crap out of the jets in the second quarter after the tape had been confiscated and the guy taping it had been kicked out. They didnt use the tape in that game. That has been established especially on eei. I have been listning also. They first talked about this yesterday on the big show.
Signals have nothing to do with 108 yard kick returns and 50 yard bombs into triple coverage. Brady mad a perfect throw to a guy who roasted 3 defenders. Thats not from signs, thats bad play by the jets.
Don't get me wrong - the Pats could've printed out a list of all the plays they were going to run and given them to the Jets and still would have destroyed them. I just hadn't heard that update.
Any predictions?
Mine - 2 game suspension, 50k fine.
—Packers cornerback Al Harris might have been on to something when he wondered aloud right after they were drilled 35-0 by visiting New England last November how polished the Patriots were on offense.
Harris said at the time: "It almost looked like they knew what we were doing. You have to tip your hat to them, the coaches and players, especially their offense. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays and made us check out (of) some things. I don't know who calls their plays, but (head coach Bill) Belichick is pretty good."
Then why when the leauge looked into it was no punishment handed down? Why did the packers not form a formal complaint? How do you explain Miami beating NE by thirty points last year and holding them to zero? miami was dreadful.No style of cheating is perfect. Look at last year's games. Look at how the Patriots pulled out many second half victories. My boss showed me on CBS sportsline the scoring of NE by quarter/half for each game in 2006.
Zack Thomas was outright bragging about knowing the pats line calls. It was reoported the phins bought tapes with audio which illegal to use. The pats filed a claim which was ignored. Where is the outrage?
So from this point on its safe to say any time a team beats another one its cheating.
No style of cheating is perfect. Look at last year's games. Look at how the Patriots pulled out many second half victories. My boss showed me on CBS sportsline the scoring of NE by quarter/half for each game in 2006.
Does that mean that the cheating was effective? I don't know but it does raise questions.
What I do know for sure is that Belichick has given the New England Patriots organization and the NFL a blackeye.
Ridiculous, Mr. Myagi.
Body88, the evidence was pretty apparent considering the weight of the punishment.
Fuck the Patriots.
Not nearly stiff enough. The Jets played a fair game, the Pats didn't. They should have been forced to forfeit.
Forced to forfeit? They never used the tape. It was confiscated in the first quarter. For the love of god why dont people get this?
oh, gee . . . the pats got caught the first time they attempted this . . . how sad!!!!!!!!
Forced to forfeit? They never used the tape. It was confiscated in thr first quarter. For the love of god why dont people get this?
Some of the players have commented that they are worried that it may come to that. They are obvious cheaters and would probably have not won any of them had they not cheated. I think it would be a PR nightmare to do so, but do they really deserve them knowing what we know now? Also, Belichick admitted to cheating, should he be banned from the NFL?
Excuses don't explain and explanations don't excuse.
Is it? I read in the USA Today that some of the players were worried they may have to. LT said, and I quote "The Patriots motto is if we aren't cheating, we aren't trying". Hines Ward is convinced that they were cheated in a playoff game. Brett Favre is convinced they have been cheating for years as well. Also, how do you explain a 6th round draft pick becoming a stud QB? Or a washed up WR getting 188 yards after sucking for 3 years ???
in college they take away national championships be happy they don't do that in pros
so you being a bias fan as you are honestly believe this was the first time they did this.
Not nearly stiff enough. The Jets played a fair game, the Pats didn't. They should have been forced to forfeit.
Bwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
This one takes the prize, stupidest post in the whole thread.
BTW, the distinct lack of punishment handed down my the NFL shows how egregious the offense was.
A whole lot of people up in arms over something that isn't a big deal. The NFL doesn't even think it's a big deal, calm down haters.
The best part is the commissioner himself flat out said the tape had no influence on the outcome of the jets game in his statement. It was not used!
Since the Pats are going to be forced to forfeit the game do you think they should surrender the Lombardi Trophies as well? Should Brady be forced to give back the Superbowl MVP awards that are sitting on his mantel?
Oh, that's right, they just have to pay a fine. Nevermind.
Glad its over. I hope Bill runs up the score on every team that we play, who whined about losing to the Pats because they "cheated".
Not nearly stiff enough. The Jets played a fair game, the Pats didn't. They should have been forced to forfeit.
Beach with all due respect you are incorrect in your assertions that the pats gained some kind of advantage from taping the jets during that game. Goodel even said they didnt. The pats never looked at the tape.
"I accept full responsibility for the actions that led to tonight's ruling. Once again, I apologize to the Kraft family and every person directly or indirectly associated with the New England Patriots for the embarrassment, distraction and penalty my mistake caused. I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career.
As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress."
Btw did you see my thread showing the jets violating the same rule the pats did? Where is the outrage? Look at the pictures in that thread. here is one of the several pictures catching the jets doing the same thing.
(http://touchdown.org/pats-camera.jpg)
Top right hand corner filing when the pats d is on the field.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/mix24mix/vlcsnap-11750320.png)
Body in full denial and not much in the way of credibility as a result.
Stop posting more excuses; they did it, maybe for years.
I'm not saying this type of thing has no impact on the game. What I'm saying is "the tape" was confiscated before the pats ever saw it. They beat the jets without the aid of any type of tape. The pats didnt cheat in that game. Goodel confirmed they did not in his statement. Roger said the outcome of the jets game had nothing to do with the confiscated tape or cheating, making the crys to replay the game a moot point. Jets fans who think they lost because the pats cheated are only cheating themselves. The comish clearly stated the tape had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. The pats where fined for having a cam on field and taping signs. Which could have lead to cheating. Roger let Bill state he had never used the tapes to cheat during a single game. Wht they did was wrong, but it amazes me how people are totally ignoring what they where found guilty off. And it aint cheatin.
As you see the jets where doing the exact same shit ::)
I don't think the Pats won the game because of this tape, regardless of whether they watched it. The tape had nothing to do with Randy Moss running all over the field and catching TD passes. But does that really matter?
Maybe we're using different definitions. I think if they broke the rule by taping signs for the purpose of stealing those that signs, that's cheating. Sounds like you're saying it's only cheating if they actually use the tape and the tape benefits them in some way?
Oh I see. I missunderstood you. I dont understand why they would have to replay the game? That would mean any game which there was a rule violation would have to be re played? The comish defined what the pats did as a violation of NFL rules (cam on field) not cheating.
I dont think they can prove the purpose of that tape. According to Beli and co they where trying to expose a loophole and tape the singals to build a scouting report for later use. The wording states you cant tape signs for use during game.
Look i dont think what they did was ok. I also think anti belichick head hunters pumped this wayyyy out of proportion. The like of Don Shula, Mike Martz, Parcells, Madden and reeves have all stated this was wayyyy overbown.
Just my .02
I don't think they should replay. I think they should forfeit. I know you think that's too harsh, but I think the NFL should take a hard-line stance on this, not just to punish the Pats, but to send a message to the league. No team should be able to do this.
We’re really splitting hairs if we’re trying to distinguish a violation of the rules from cheating.
I respect Parcells, Madden, Reeves, etc. and their opinions are important. It's just my view that this kind of stuff affects the integrity of the game. But I'm also one who believes we need to get drugs out of the sport.
Pumpster still waiting for you to present me some facts to back up these claims. Not articles that are opinion and not fact. You cant thats why you keep dodging it. Here let me pose the questions to you for a third time. Then you respond with some agenda driven opinion article from the NY media proving me right time after time.
Prove that
Goodel did not say the tape had no outcome on the jets game
Goodel did not allow belichick to say he had never used sings to cheat during a game
The NFL looked into the pats cheating in the past
Mike Martz did not flat out say the pats beat the fair and square in the superbowl
The comish busted the pats for cheating and said it
I want legit facts, not some article by some talking head with a pen.
Pumpster still waiting for you to present me some facts to back up these claims. Not articles that are opinion and not fact. You cant thats why you keep dodging it. Here let me pose the questions to you for a third time. Then you repsond with some agenda driven opinon article from the NY media proving me right time after time.
Body, stop feeding the trolls. Any and all talk of forfeits and suspensions is asinine.
BTW, do you realize that pumpster clown at one point said the CFL was as good as the NFL and that Flutie was as good as Elway or something equally insane? Think of who you're "debating" with.
Nothing more to be done; you're proving that you're living in the past with zero objectivity.CASE CLOSED
Let's hope the players are less shell-shocked than Body, otherwise the season's already lost.
I win.This is the way you got when you called woods erratic and overrated!
My points are valid, you are a clown prone to generalizations when you don't agree with someone.
the funniest thing about it is that to this day, Woods *was* erratic then, compared to now-he knew it and you didn't bwhaahahahahahahahahahah a
As far as NE, the commish agrees with me, not a FANATIC AKA Body.
Body, stop feeding the trolls. Any and all talk of forfeits and suspensions is asinine.
BTW, do you realize that pumpster clown at one point said the CFL was as good as the NFL and that Flutie was as good as Elway or something equally insane? Think of who you're "debating" with.
My points are valid, you are a clown prone to insults for those who know better than you.
Body, look at that last post by dumpster, tell me that's not the post of a troll? He even used the meltdown picture.
Right but if the commish said the pats did not use the tape to cheat during the game, what would be the premise for a forfeit? The only rule the pats broke on that day was having a video machine on the field. Stealing signs is not illegal. Neither is building a file of them. They screwed up by using a video camera. If you are talking about stealing signs and integrity of the game it has been long lost.
The broncs cheated the cap time after time during there sb runs. They got docked a third and a fifth. You don't think a first and a 750k fine is not good enough?
Goodel is a total hard ass. The fact he took a first when the pats have so many pics ( and that was his hard ass approach_ goes to show this was driven more by media hatred then legit concern for the game.
The dolphins bragged about stealing the pats audio last year and no one gave a shit. The jets did exactly what NE was busted for during the same game, no one cares. This is about building people up then taking them down. This has just as much to do with jealousy as it does the pats effing up.
Look at Heinz Ward, making excuses the pats stole there offensive signals which led them to lose that afc game. Hilarious! The NFL hands out sanctioned tamper free headsets before the game. The offensive calls are through radio, not hand signals. Ward is making excuses for losing that day. Impossible excuses. The funny part is people think he may be on to something! What he is purposing is not only foolish it just didn't happen.
I'm going on Rogers definition of what happened, and it ain't cheating. It sure as hell isn't cheating over long periods of time. The is 100 percent speculation made up by people with agendas. The NFL has never looked into the pats cheating other then today. If they did they failed to mention it when they layed down there punishment, and when it happened.
The speculation is from people who lost to them.
the funniest thing about it is that to this day, Woods *was* erratic then, compared to now-he knew it and you didn't bwhaahahahahahahahahahah a
Body88,
You're a solid dude who provides objective opinions, and who as a moderator, is second to none. You're my boy and I like ya, kid.
But your defense about other teams being guilty about stealing signs is pretty irrelevant. Those teams didn't get caught. The Pats DID get caught. Yeah, I know the camera footage that was confiscated didn't lead to the Pats victory but the intention to cheat was present and it led to a punishment. According to Goodell, the intent was there and the Pats got caught. Whether, the footage was enough to blame them of cheating, the point is that they got caught trying to gain an advantage over their opponent.
It just plain stinks. I'm over it but a lot of questions are being raised as to whether the Pats used these same tactics to gain an advantage during their storied super bowl success since 2001.
So the question remains....is this incident going to stick with Patriots all season and cause a distraction? Or do you think the Pats can move past this and turn the page?
first rodney gets busted for HGH and then beliCHEAT, they are frauds and their legacy is tainted forever
No there not lol. You cant prove anything. You post opinions from some clown with an agenda and pass them off as facts.
Prove to me
When the NFL looked into the pats for cheating on two seperate occasions ( when who)
When Goodel said the pats cheated in the past
When the NFL said the pats cheated in the past
Goodel didnt say the tape from sun had no outcome on the game
Goodel didnt let Beli say he had never used taped signals during a game to cheat
I think its good you guys post your opinions on this. Nothing personal. Even tho I am friends with you guys its cool you can tell me straight up what the deal is.
See guys see the sox game? Not a good week for me! Drink my sorrows away!
You are cool. Certainly nothing personal on my part.
Pumpster gems, Cookie Gihlchrist was better than Jim Brown, Doug Flutie was better than Montana or Elway, the CFL is better than the NFL, American bodybuilders are dumber than bodybuilders in other countries, Bowflex is as good as real weights at building muscle etc...
I think its good you guys post your opinions on this. Nothing personal. Even tho I am friends with you guys its cool you can tell me straight up what the deal is.
its the classic Barry bonds defense "everyones doin it not just him".guess that makes it right.but if every one cheating as body88 claims why is everyone so up in arms about the pats?must be a conspicracy!
Good, good now that you're calm & lucid again...that playoff game in San Diego and this week's hijinks make this game potentially a lot better than most early-season games. A must-see.
I'm hoping for NE to win it all, of course!! A good team with so many advantages should be able to overcome this rather than a repeat of the late-70s NE debacle with Chuck Fairbanks.
Good, good now that you're calm & lucid again...that playoff game in San Diego and this week's hijinks increase the stakes, make this game potentially a lot better than most early-season games. A must-see.
I'm hoping for NE to win it all, of course!! A good team with so many advantages should be able to overcome this rather than a repeat of the late-70s NE debacle with Chuck Fairbanks.
Exactly; i think body's temporarily recovered his objectivity..
its the classic Barry bonds defense "everyones doin it not just him".guess that makes it right.but if every one cheating as body88 claims why is everyone so up in arms about the pats?must be a conspicracy!
No its not. I am not defending anything. Stealing signs is not illegal. Look it up. The pats where punished for taping the signs with a camera. Even though the tape was never used it was crossing the line. They where wrong. I am defending them against the clowns taking things way to far. Calling for lifetime bans and other ridiculous punishments. This has just as much to do with the hate ALOT of media people have for beli, as them getting bagged with the cam. You think the pats are the only ones trying things like this? How about last year when the phins bragged about buying illegal game tapes with audio allowing them to decipher the pats audibles? They shut the pats out 30 - 0 at Gillete. How about Mike Shanahan cheating the cap during there sb runs? Getting an edge as its called it nothing new. Btw Here is irrefutable proof the jets where doing the exact same thing in the same game. Everybody is not up in arms. Al ot of sports writers with opinions and agendas are up in arms. The same people who hated Belichick before now are out for blood. This whole thing is MEDIA driven. Name some big time NFL people who are outraged. Guys like Madden, Shula, Reeves, Salisbury, Parcells, Key Johnson Mike Martz and many others have said this was not uncommon and very overblown.
What they did was wrong but get off the high horse.
http://coloyan.com/society/s091607
The fact that you still persist with this stuff's further indication that you don't see yourself and the fact that you're not at all objective. A homer in the extreme, who is uninteresting to others without the same loyalties to NE. Stop trying to justify the video, it's really silly. As i said, they were specifically warned about it, and still did it. Game over. You're so friggin biased it's insane, some of us aren't. You should listen to others on this, you're unable to see it.
And don't go on with another few paragraphs about how this isn't true. ;)
The biggest problem this season might be boredom; unless another very good team's around it will be no contest with NE.
So get off his nuts, Sean Salisbury.
Fag.
This article is 100 percent pure speculation meant to sensationalize this even further. Look how Billick blatently calls out the jets for cheating last week and no one cares.
Btw belichick just got a 3 year extension from kraft he signed 2 days ago.
Get this through your thick fucking head, this has nothing to do with the other teams. Right now, Bellicheat is either going to beat this or go straight off the deep end. To issue an emergency order confiscating his hundreds of pages of info. on other coaches and teams means Goodell isn't joking around.
While the rest of the NFL may be cheaters, he makes a good point in that one head might have to roll to right the ship. Bellichek isn't above the league and his bullshit approach to this issue is laughable.
So tell me, all these other players and coaches are just full of shit? The multiple times opposing teams have had radio issues at Foxboro is just a coincidence? Yeah, right. ::)
Long ago? He handed them over yesterday. He's been stonewalling since day one. He's hiding something. I'd laugh so hard I'd cry if he got canned by season's end. Let's hope it happens! He's a #### anyway.
No I dont. I Dismiss articles like the one fury posted. Not only is it 100 percent speculation it makes no sense. During the game Andrea Kramer (spelling) was talking about how Norv Turner took extreme precautions to prevent any type of cheating ::) Yet the pats somehow cheated again.
The Commissioner days the confiscated tape in the jets game had no outcome on the game since the pays never saw it, yet they cheated next week vs San D.
No one is talking about them cheating on Sunday, moron. We're talking about the last 4+ years of the Bellichek era. Why do you keep trying to interpret it like a moron? And I couldn't care less that he was a coach on the old G-men. He's a cheating scumbag and I care about the integrity of the game.
In all honesty, what's to say they didn't cheat in the Super Bowl? Nothing.
The article talks about how NE could have cheated on sun. Mike Martz head coach of the rams said the pats did not cheat vs them in 01 when they beat the rams. He said it flat out I posted the aricle. Steelers coach Bill Cowher said the same thing after Ward claimed the pats might have known there offensive plays in the afc championship game. Cowher said he thought they did not cheat. Which is also funny since offensive plays are sent thorough NFL sanctioned headsets and no hand signals are involved.
Until the NFL says so this is an isolated incident where a team screwed up. You can try to bash them all you like. You have no proof to back up any claims.
If they did cheat in the past I guess the NFL wanted it all covered up ::)
That article should have been called I hate Bill Belichick and the patriots, so lets speculate accuse and discredit everything he did over his career with no proof from the NFL or any credible sources because the pats where caught taping four defensive coaches in plain view of 70,000 people. Then lets ignore the same team who called out the pats for trying to get an unfiar edge, get bagged for doing the same type of shit to the ravens. the very next week.
What the pats did was wrong and they deserved to be punished, but garbage articles like that are not fair at all.
You're speculating that he didn't cheat. This guy is speculating that they did. It's a two way street,fanatic, Body.