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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Deicide on January 01, 2008, 03:12:56 AM
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10 You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that humans were created from dirt.
8 You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the male first-born babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees.
6 You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods consorting with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is about a couple of generations old.
4 You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs though excluding those in all rival sects will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering, and yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" your choice of religions to be the correct one.
2 You define .01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers, and consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% failure was simply the will of God.
1 You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history but you still call yourself a Christian.
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Good post.
But please use regular size letters, it make it much easier to read, and my guess is that more members will read the post.
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Modify your post to use regular size letters and then I might read it.
Happy New Year, Trapezkerl!
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christianity is pwned
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AMEN
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Just the facts, please.
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With the possible exception of #1, none of these apply to me. Perhaps though it's because the original writer wrote in a such a "drama queen" style.
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10 You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that humans were created from dirt.
8 You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the male first-born babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees.
6 You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods consorting with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is about a couple of generations old.
4 You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs though excluding those in all rival sects will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering, and yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" your choice of religions to be the correct one.
2 You define .01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers, and consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% failure was simply the will of God.
1 You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history but you still call yourself a Christian.
I guess I'm not a "Fundy Nutcase" after all. And all this time I thought I was. :'(
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I guess I'm not a "Fundy Nutcase" after all. And all this time I thought I was. :'(
:'(
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The
dope guy has nothing better to do with his life than to let everyone in the world know how much he disbelieves in God and how much he hates christians.
Okay, we got it the first thousand times you stated it. Enough already. Can you pick another subject, please?
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The dope guy has nothing better to do with his life than to let everyone in the world know how much he disbelieves in God and how much he hates christians.
Okay, we got it the first thousand times you stated it. Enough already. Can you pick another subject, please?
Seems like he's very interested in God and the Bible and really enjoys conversing w/Christians.
:)
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troll
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With the possible exception of #1, none of these apply to me. Perhaps though it's because the original writer wrote in a such a "drama queen" style.
You could have fooled me!
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Seems like he's very interested in God and the Bible and really enjoys conversing w/Christians.
:)
oh yeah, he loves conversing with christians. if you call telling them how stupid we are conversing.
that's all he knows to do. if he wanted to talk the bible or God, fine. but his ranting and raving with his vile hatred is a little childish. no, it's a lot childish.
he needs to grow up.
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I guess I'm not a "Fundy Nutcase" after all. And all this time I thought I was. :'(
You disappoint me. ;D j/k
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You disappoint me. ;D j/k
I know, after reading this list, I disappoint myself. ;D
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10 You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
Ummm, NO!!! There's no denial that they exist. It's just that they don't quite stack up to our God. I give you Dagon, Baal, Asheroth, Meradoch, just to name a few. They are gone (or at least, on a long hiatus). God, however, is alive and well. In fact, the first commandment stated that Israel was to have no other gods before Him.
9 You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that humans were created from dirt.
So, people like knowing that they were created by the Almighty. Yet, you (and others) seem to prefer having a 5-billion-year-old pile of goo as your ancestor. There's a point to this, I hope!!!
8 You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
Who laughs at polytheists? The numbers of deities do tend to be a bit high. As for the Triune thing, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, they are described as One in Scripture.
7 Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the male first-born babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees.
And you don't seem to flinch when hearing about the male Hebrews, slaughtered by the Egyptians. Or, the little fact that Pharoah had nine other opportunities to release the Israelites, before the plague hit the firstborn of Egypt. And you seem to conveniently ignore those ethnic groups (deal with by God) attacked Israel unprovoked for centuries. But, I get it now, Israel is supposed to get attacked mercilessly, century after century, to which folks like you will howl and yak about "Where is God?" Yet, when the Almighty has had enough and renders judgment on those oppressing His people, now all of a sudden, He's too cruel and harsh.
Come up with some new material; this bit has grown tired.
6 You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods consorting with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
Again, where is the alleged laughter coming? Of course, Christians have no problem about the birth of Jesus, because unlike the other religions you mentioned, there is no instance of a deity getting his freak on with a mortal. Mary gave birth to Jesus as a virgin (as was prophecied), meaning there was NO SEX involved.
5 You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is about a couple of generations old.
Who needs to spend their life looking for that? For starters, the "loopholes" are anything but little (and they ain't hard to find). Plus, it wasn't that long ago that the "scientifically established" age of the Earth was about half of what is supposedly is now. Then, there's the little matter of the dating methods that have been shown to be less than accurate, when tested against rocks of historically-known age. Plus, the authors of the books of the Bible aren't attempting to calculate the age of the Earth, in the first place.
4 You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs though excluding those in all rival sects will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering, and yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
Anyone who wants to become a Christian can become one. There's no race, gender, or ethnic barrier. And, you can't become one by force. And someone mentioned it on another thread, but the idea of an infinite Hell of Suffering isn't necessarily a Biblical one. The Bible supports the concept of wickedness and sin being destroyed permanently and thoroughly.
3 While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" your choice of religions to be the correct one.
Inherent is your warped assumption that such can't and hasn't been used to show the validity of Christianity. In fact, (and this may come as shock to you), many people have become Christians through study in those disciplines. Loco and I discussed this awhile back. How many times have skeptics claim historical events in the Bible to be wrong, only to be refuted, when archaeological evidence validated what the Bible said was right?
2 You define .01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers, and consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% failure was simply the will of God.
We define as a "high success rate" the millions of testimonies of people over the ages, along with personal testimonies of friends and family that show the power of prayer. I don't know where you got your numbers; but, historically speaking, they don't jive. Besides, per your words, prayer doesn't work AT ALL; therefore, there shouldn't be a "0.01%". Furthermore, "0.01%" is a far higher "success rate" than the odds of all the so-called random events that caused a pile of 5-billion-year-old goo to evolve into man. Yet, you still believe that it happened. Maybe that was simply the will of "goo".
1 You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history but you still call yourself a Christian.[/size][/b]
Do "many atheists and agnostics" know more about the Bible? Or, are you merely touting the example of non-believing college professors and college grads vs. laymen without the same level of education? Then, there's the matter of the completeness of this knowledge. Have they heard all the information, regarding the Bible, Christianity, and church history? Being a Christian involved giving your heart to the Lord and acknowledging His sacrifice for you. That doesn't require a set level of knowledge. You can learn as much as you want. But, without surrendering to Christ, none of that matters.
In conclusion, the "nutcase" label may apply to you (and others with your mindset). Again, who else get so worked up and discombobulated about Something he doesn't believe to exist? ;D
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Ummm, NO!!! There's no denial that they exist. It's just that they don't quite stack up to our God. I give you Dagon, Baal, Asheroth, Meradoch, just to name a few. They are gone (or at least, on a long hiatus). God, however, is alive and well. In fact, the first commandment stated that Israel was to have no other gods before Him.
So, people like knowing that they were created by the Almighty. Yet, you (and others) seem to prefer having a 5-billion-year-old pile of goo as your ancestor. There's a point to this, I hope!!!
Who laughs at polytheists? The numbers of deities do tend to be a bit high. As for the Triune thing, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, they are described as One in Scripture.
And you don't seem to flinch when hearing about the male Hebrews, slaughtered by the Egyptians. Or, the little fact that Pharoah had nine other opportunities to release the Israelites, before the plague hit the firstborn of Egypt. And you seem to conveniently ignore those ethnic groups (deal with by God) attacked Israel unprovoked for centuries. But, I get it now, Israel is supposed to get attacked mercilessly, century after century, to which folks like you will howl and yak about "Where is God?" Yet, when the Almighty has had enough and renders judgment on those oppressing His people, now all of a sudden, He's too cruel and harsh.
Come up with some new material; this bit has grown tired.
Again, where is the alleged laughter coming? Of course, Christians have no problem about the birth of Jesus, because unlike the other religions you mentioned, there is no instance of a deity getting his freak on with a mortal. Mary gave birth to Jesus as a virgin (as was prophecied), meaning there was NO SEX involved.
Who needs to spend their life looking for that? For starters, the "loopholes" are anything but little (and they ain't hard to find). Plus, it wasn't that long ago that the "scientifically established" age of the Earth was about half of what is supposedly is now. Then, there's the little matter of the dating methods that have been shown to be less than accurate, when tested against rocks of historically-known age. Plus, the authors of the books of the Bible aren't attempting to calculate the age of the Earth, in the first place.
Anyone who wants to become a Christian can become one. There's no race, gender, or ethnic barrier. And, you can't become one by force. And someone mentioned it on another thread, but the idea of an infinite Hell of Suffering isn't necessarily a Biblical one. The Bible supports the concept of wickedness and sin being destroyed permanently and thoroughly.
Inherent is your warped assumption that such can't and hasn't been used to show the validity of Christianity. In fact, (and this may come as shock to you), many people have become Christians through study in those disciplines. Loco and I discussed this awhile back. How many times have skeptics claim historical events in the Bible to be wrong, only to be refuted, when archaeological evidence validated what the Bible said was right?
We define as a "high success rate" the millions of testimonies of people over the ages, along with personal testimonies of friends and family that show the power of prayer. I don't know where you got your numbers; but, historically speaking, they don't jive. Besides, per your words, prayer doesn't work AT ALL; therefore, there shouldn't be a "0.01%". Furthermore, "0.01%" is a far higher "success rate" than the odds of all the so-called random events that caused a pile of 5-billion-year-old goo to evolve into man. Yet, you still believe that it happened. Maybe that was simply the will of "goo".
Do "many atheists and agnostics" know more about the Bible? Or, are you merely touting the example of non-believing college professors and college grads vs. laymen without the same level of education? Then, there's the matter of the completeness of this knowledge. Have they heard all the information, regarding the Bible, Christianity, and church history? Being a Christian involved giving your heart to the Lord and acknowledging His sacrifice for you. That doesn't require a set level of knowledge. You can learn as much as you want. But, without surrendering to Christ, none of that matters.
In conclusion, the "nutcase" label may apply to you (and others with your mindset). Again, who else get so worked up and discombobulated about Something he doesn't believe to exist? ;D
Great post, MCWAY!
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Great post, MCWAY!
Yes poor MCWAY, he has all the trappings of child into whom Christianity was verbally beaten (and maybe physically as well?), repeatedly, constantly subjected to dogma. He is the personification of the indoctrinated child and now he can't let go. How sad. :-\
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Do "many atheists and agnostics" know more about the Bible? Or, are you merely touting the example of non-believing college professors and college grads vs. laymen without the same level of education? Then, there's the matter of the completeness of this knowledge. Have they heard all the information, regarding the Bible, Christianity, and church history? Being a Christian involved giving your heart to the Lord and acknowledging His sacrifice for you. That doesn't require a set level of knowledge. You can learn as much as you want. But, without surrendering to Christ, none of that matters.
In conclusion, the "nutcase" label may apply to you (and others with your mindset). Again, who else get so worked up and discombobulated about Something he doesn't believe to exist? ;D
WONDERFUL POST MCWAY!!!!! PREACH ON, BROTHER!
Your statement I quoted above is perfect.
Good job shutting him up, too! ;D
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Props to McWay from we as well. :)
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Props from me too. Nice job dude.
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Yes poor MCWAY, he has all the trappings of child into whom Christianity was verbally beaten (and maybe physically as well?), repeatedly, constantly subjected to dogma. He is the personification of the indoctrinated child and now he can't let go. How sad. :-\
More like I have all the trappings of someone who's heard this type of silliness from folks like you before and am officially unimpressed by your redundant blubbering about it.
"Indoctrination" has nothing to do with the matter, notwithstanding the fact that I did grow up in a Christian home (for the most part) and went to Christian school virtually all of my elementary and high school days.
There are those who've done the same, yet they have rejected their faith. And, there are others who DID NOT grow up in an environment such as I did, yet became Christians later in their adult life. Of course, you would know that, if you weren't stuck on the arrogant (and woefully incorrect) take that anyone who studies and thinks for himself will automatically reject their Christian faith.
Now, if you're done posting such buffoonery (highly unlikely), perhaps you can provide some meaningful discussion to the table.
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Ummm, NO!!! There's no denial that they exist. It's just that they don't quite stack up to our God. I give you Dagon, Baal, Asheroth, Meradoch, just to name a few. They are gone (or at least, on a long hiatus). God, however, is alive and well. In fact, the first commandment stated that Israel was to have no other gods before Him. "
i didnt even read past this garbage, your god is no better then theirs and your god has no proof of his existence. how do you knwo they are gone and your god is alive and well? this is rhetoric, plain and simple. its painful to read your posts you dont know how to form an argument, and use the bible as proof of the bible. your god doesnt exist, and for many reasons. you choose not to acknowledge them and pretend that all the other deities are long gone while yours is still alive. give me some proof, why your god. dont use the bible as proof as this is circular logic and i think we have been nice enough to allow you to use logic fallacy after fallacy and still debate you.
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Ummm, NO!!! There's no denial that they exist. It's just that they don't quite stack up to our God. I give you Dagon, Baal, Asheroth, Meradoch, just to name a few. They are gone (or at least, on a long hiatus). God, however, is alive and well. In fact, the first commandment stated that Israel was to have no other gods before Him.
So, people like knowing that they were created by the Almighty. Yet, you (and others) seem to prefer having a 5-billion-year-old pile of goo as your ancestor. There's a point to this, I hope!!!
Who laughs at polytheists? The numbers of deities do tend to be a bit high. As for the Triune thing, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, they are described as One in Scripture.
And you don't seem to flinch when hearing about the male Hebrews, slaughtered by the Egyptians. Or, the little fact that Pharoah had nine other opportunities to release the Israelites, before the plague hit the firstborn of Egypt. And you seem to conveniently ignore those ethnic groups (deal with by God) attacked Israel unprovoked for centuries. But, I get it now, Israel is supposed to get attacked mercilessly, century after century, to which folks like you will howl and yak about "Where is God?" Yet, when the Almighty has had enough and renders judgment on those oppressing His people, now all of a sudden, He's too cruel and harsh.
Come up with some new material; this bit has grown tired.
Again, where is the alleged laughter coming? Of course, Christians have no problem about the birth of Jesus, because unlike the other religions you mentioned, there is no instance of a deity getting his freak on with a mortal. Mary gave birth to Jesus as a virgin (as was prophecied), meaning there was NO SEX involved.
Who needs to spend their life looking for that? For starters, the "loopholes" are anything but little (and they ain't hard to find). Plus, it wasn't that long ago that the "scientifically established" age of the Earth was about half of what is supposedly is now. Then, there's the little matter of the dating methods that have been shown to be less than accurate, when tested against rocks of historically-known age. Plus, the authors of the books of the Bible aren't attempting to calculate the age of the Earth, in the first place.
Anyone who wants to become a Christian can become one. There's no race, gender, or ethnic barrier. And, you can't become one by force. And someone mentioned it on another thread, but the idea of an infinite Hell of Suffering isn't necessarily a Biblical one. The Bible supports the concept of wickedness and sin being destroyed permanently and thoroughly.
Inherent is your warped assumption that such can't and hasn't been used to show the validity of Christianity. In fact, (and this may come as shock to you), many people have become Christians through study in those disciplines. Loco and I discussed this awhile back. How many times have skeptics claim historical events in the Bible to be wrong, only to be refuted, when archaeological evidence validated what the Bible said was right?
We define as a "high success rate" the millions of testimonies of people over the ages, along with personal testimonies of friends and family that show the power of prayer. I don't know where you got your numbers; but, historically speaking, they don't jive. Besides, per your words, prayer doesn't work AT ALL; therefore, there shouldn't be a "0.01%". Furthermore, "0.01%" is a far higher "success rate" than the odds of all the so-called random events that caused a pile of 5-billion-year-old goo to evolve into man. Yet, you still believe that it happened. Maybe that was simply the will of "goo".
Do "many atheists and agnostics" know more about the Bible? Or, are you merely touting the example of non-believing college professors and college grads vs. laymen without the same level of education? Then, there's the matter of the completeness of this knowledge. Have they heard all the information, regarding the Bible, Christianity, and church history? Being a Christian involved giving your heart to the Lord and acknowledging His sacrifice for you. That doesn't require a set level of knowledge. You can learn as much as you want. But, without surrendering to Christ, none of that matters.
In conclusion, the "nutcase" label may apply to you (and others with your mindset). Again, who else get so worked up and discombobulated about Something he doesn't believe to exist? ;D
WOW!!!! Incredible post, bro! Ya straight blew him up!
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WOW!!!! Incredible post, bro! Ya straight blew him up!
are you honestly insane? im not kidding. the first two arguments are not even arguments but opinions. just look at this non sense. its obvious from the glaring reviews of his ridiculous post that beleivers need little to be swayed, what a shock.
"And you don't seem to flinch when hearing about the male Hebrews, slaughtered by the Egyptians. Or, the little fact that Pharoah had nine other opportunities to release the Israelites, before the plague hit the firstborn of Egypt. And you seem to conveniently ignore those ethnic groups (deal with by God) attacked Israel unprovoked for centuries. But, I get it now, Israel is supposed to get attacked mercilessly, century after century, to which folks like you will howl and yak about "Where is God?" Yet, when the Almighty has had enough and renders judgment on those oppressing His people, now all of a sudden, He's too cruel and harsh."
ok mcway, god knows the future. hence if he does free will doesnt exist as our lives are pre determined. also, the fact that he created the first murderers or the egyptians knowing that they would kill totally puts the burden on your god. your argument is like arguing that a person choose downsyndrome. god created the egyptians knowing what would happen as he can see into the future, allowed them to murder according to the script he laid out then decided to slay them. you cant have free will and a god who knows the future. you cant have free will and a god who intervenes, your belief is wrought with contradiction. your god is missing in times of suffering, and when something good happens you attribute it to god. if you attribute miracles to god then you also must attribute atroscities to him as well, as there are no real criteria for choice other the personal preference.
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ok mcway, god knows the future. hence if he does free will doesnt exist as our lives are pre determined.
God knowing the future does not necessarily mean that free will doesn't exist.
Let's say you put a piece of cake with frosting out on the kitchen table and had the supernatural knowledge that I would eat it when I saw it. Then I do come along and eat it :-[ . That in no way means my free will to eat it didn't exist right? You didn't make me eat it...I ate it of my own volition.
you cant have free will and a god who intervenes,
This is interesting though. I heard a preacher once say we have "limited free will." If that is a fact, free will still exists.
your god is missing in times of suffering,
I don't think most believers think that God is missing in times of suffering.
your god is missing in times of suffering, and when something good happens you attribute it to god. if you attribute miracles to god then you also must attribute atroscities to him as well,
But the above statement is very interesting in that I hear some non-believers express the opposite. They seem to feel that when good happens God had nothing to do w/it but when bad happens, they talk about how there either can't be a God or that God is "bad."
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God knowing the future does not necessarily mean that free will doesn't exist.
Let's say you put a piece of cake with frosting out on the kitchen table and had the supernatural knowledge that I would eat it when I saw it. Then I do come along and eat it :-[ . That in no way means my free will to eat it didn't exist right? You didn't make me eat it...I ate it of my own volition.
This is interesting though. I heard a preacher once say we have "limited free will." If that is a fact, free will still exists.
I don't think most believers think that God is missing in times of suffering.
But the above statement is very interesting in that I hear some non-believers express the opposite. They seem to feel that when good happens God had nothing to do w/it but when bad happens, they talk about how there either can't be a God or that God is "bad."
God knowing the future does not necessarily mean that free will doesn't exist.
Let's say you put a piece of cake with frosting out on the kitchen table and had the supernatural knowledge that I would eat it when I saw it. Then I do come along and eat it :-[ . That in no way means my free will to eat it didn't exist right? You didn't make me eat it...I ate it of my own volition."
ummmmmmmm yes it does, you see your belief that you ate the cake on yoru own free will doesnt mean you had free will. for example if i programmed a conscious autonomous organism to perform only one function and he did this act, for example he was trained to eat cake. to him he is performing the act unknowinly performing a rigid guideline and in actuality he has no free will but is programmed. this analogy applies to your life and a god who knows what actions you will perform. in fact god knowing the future makes life pointless as everything is planned and preconcieved the only way god can exist is as a seperate powerless entity. i suggest you read about open theism. free will, with a pre determined future=no free will, there is no debate its a logical incosistency to say god knows all that will happen and that you make your choices.
"But the above statement is very interesting in that I hear some non-believers express the opposite. They seem to feel that when good happens God had nothing to do w/it but when bad happens, they talk about how there either can't be a God or that God is "bad.""
i think beleivers misunderstand, of course not all on either side. i dont care if you attribute "miracles" to god but what i do care about is these same believers giving god the free pass when children are burned alive. you cant have your cake and eat it too. what are your criteria for determining which actions god is involved in and which to exclude him from? if there are none, which i know there are not other then blind faith and irrationality then its a worthless argument.
your god participates in murder, hence cannot be all loving, and his commandment is thou shall not kill. he is also a hypocrite.
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Ummm, NO!!! There's no denial that they exist. It's just that they don't quite stack up to our God. I give you Dagon, Baal, Asheroth, Meradoch, just to name a few. They are gone (or at least, on a long hiatus). God, however, is alive and well. In fact, the first commandment stated that Israel was to have no other gods before Him.
So, people like knowing that they were created by the Almighty. Yet, you (and others) seem to prefer having a 5-billion-year-old pile of goo as your ancestor. There's a point to this, I hope!!!
Who laughs at polytheists? The numbers of deities do tend to be a bit high. As for the Triune thing, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, they are described as One in Scripture.
And you don't seem to flinch when hearing about the male Hebrews, slaughtered by the Egyptians. Or, the little fact that Pharoah had nine other opportunities to release the Israelites, before the plague hit the firstborn of Egypt. And you seem to conveniently ignore those ethnic groups (deal with by God) attacked Israel unprovoked for centuries. But, I get it now, Israel is supposed to get attacked mercilessly, century after century, to which folks like you will howl and yak about "Where is God?" Yet, when the Almighty has had enough and renders judgment on those oppressing His people, now all of a sudden, He's too cruel and harsh.
Come up with some new material; this bit has grown tired.
Again, where is the alleged laughter coming? Of course, Christians have no problem about the birth of Jesus, because unlike the other religions you mentioned, there is no instance of a deity getting his freak on with a mortal. Mary gave birth to Jesus as a virgin (as was prophecied), meaning there was NO SEX involved.
Who needs to spend their life looking for that? For starters, the "loopholes" are anything but little (and they ain't hard to find). Plus, it wasn't that long ago that the "scientifically established" age of the Earth was about half of what is supposedly is now. Then, there's the little matter of the dating methods that have been shown to be less than accurate, when tested against rocks of historically-known age. Plus, the authors of the books of the Bible aren't attempting to calculate the age of the Earth, in the first place.
Anyone who wants to become a Christian can become one. There's no race, gender, or ethnic barrier. And, you can't become one by force. And someone mentioned it on another thread, but the idea of an infinite Hell of Suffering isn't necessarily a Biblical one. The Bible supports the concept of wickedness and sin being destroyed permanently and thoroughly.
Inherent is your warped assumption that such can't and hasn't been used to show the validity of Christianity. In fact, (and this may come as shock to you), many people have become Christians through study in those disciplines. Loco and I discussed this awhile back. How many times have skeptics claim historical events in the Bible to be wrong, only to be refuted, when archaeological evidence validated what the Bible said was right?
We define as a "high success rate" the millions of testimonies of people over the ages, along with personal testimonies of friends and family that show the power of prayer. I don't know where you got your numbers; but, historically speaking, they don't jive. Besides, per your words, prayer doesn't work AT ALL; therefore, there shouldn't be a "0.01%". Furthermore, "0.01%" is a far higher "success rate" than the odds of all the so-called random events that caused a pile of 5-billion-year-old goo to evolve into man. Yet, you still believe that it happened. Maybe that was simply the will of "goo".
Do "many atheists and agnostics" know more about the Bible? Or, are you merely touting the example of non-believing college professors and college grads vs. laymen without the same level of education? Then, there's the matter of the completeness of this knowledge. Have they heard all the information, regarding the Bible, Christianity, and church history? Being a Christian involved giving your heart to the Lord and acknowledging His sacrifice for you. That doesn't require a set level of knowledge. You can learn as much as you want. But, without surrendering to Christ, none of that matters.
In conclusion, the "nutcase" label may apply to you (and others with your mindset). Again, who else get so worked up and discombobulated about Something he doesn't believe to exist? ;D
classic reply!!! .....
http://www.godisimaginary.com/video7.htm
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are you honestly insane? im not kidding. the first two arguments are not even arguments but opinions. just look at this non sense. its obvious from the glaring reviews of his ridiculous post that beleivers need little to be swayed, what a shock.
"And you don't seem to flinch when hearing about the male Hebrews, slaughtered by the Egyptians. Or, the little fact that Pharoah had nine other opportunities to release the Israelites, before the plague hit the firstborn of Egypt. And you seem to conveniently ignore those ethnic groups (deal with by God) attacked Israel unprovoked for centuries. But, I get it now, Israel is supposed to get attacked mercilessly, century after century, to which folks like you will howl and yak about "Where is God?" Yet, when the Almighty has had enough and renders judgment on those oppressing His people, now all of a sudden, He's too cruel and harsh."
ok mcway, god knows the future. hence if he does free will doesnt exist as our lives are pre determined. also, the fact that he created the first murderers or the egyptians knowing that they would kill totally puts the burden on your god. your argument is like arguing that a person choose downsyndrome. god created the egyptians knowing what would happen as he can see into the future, allowed them to murder according to the script he laid out then decided to slay them. you cant have free will and a god who knows the future. you cant have free will and a god who intervenes, your belief is wrought with contradiction. your god is missing in times of suffering, and when something good happens you attribute it to god. if you attribute miracles to god then you also must attribute atroscities to him as well, as there are no real criteria for choice other the personal preference.
Once again, your complaints stem from your warped premise that free will means absence of consequences for certain behavior. What you want is freedom without responsibility or accountability. That will not happen on any level, God or no God.
With regards to the Egypt thing, Pharoah had the option of releasing the Hebrews nine times, before the tenth and most devastating plague hit. He chose not to heed God's warning through Moses. Therefore, he and his people suffered as a result.
As for your claims of not being able to have free will, if God intervenes, that is patently false, especially when (in the majority of the cases), divine intervention occurs at the REQUEST of the believer. There is a verse in Deut. (I think it's 30:19) that states that God sets before His people life and death, blessings and curses, and He advises them to choose blessings. If you, by your own actions, choose the curses, that's on YOU, not God, or anyone else.
Furthermore, wherever you're getting this idea that God is absent in suffering but present in good times, I'd suggest you take that back. Job said it best, despite the suffering he endured, he acknowledged the presence of God, "Naked I came into this world and naked I will leave; the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord".
As long as there is sin in this world, there will be suffering. And, as I've stated on numerous occasions, the worst part about sin is that the suffering isn't limited to the transgressors. Other people can suffer, as a result of your sins (and mine). And I can suffer, from other people's sins, as can you.
Also ranking high on the ridiculous scale is your claim that life is pointless, if God knows the future. To the contrary, I would ask if there is no God, what is the point of life, simply to survive? If that's it, then life indeed is pointless, because NOBODY SURVIVES. Death comes to everybody, whether by disease, murder, accident, or our mortal bodies simply giving out. Nobody gets out of life alive.
i think beleivers misunderstand, of course not all on either side. i dont care if you attribute "miracles" to god but what i do care about is these same believers giving god the free pass when children are burned alive. you cant have your cake and eat it too. what are your criteria for determining which actions god is involved in and which to exclude him from? if there are none, which i know there are not other then blind faith and irrationality then its a worthless argument.
your god participates in murder, hence cannot be all loving, and his commandment is thou shall not kill. he is also a hypocrite.
The only One who has a right to end life is He who gave life in the first place. Man is God's creation; He can do what He pleases with what is His. Man is instructed not to murder, because he cannot give life to anyone. Any instruction that man is given to end another man's life is for a specific purpose, usually a major trangression of His law (i.e. rape, adultery, murder, persecution of His people, etc.).
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Ummm, NO!!! There's no denial that they exist. It's just that they don't quite stack up to our God. I give you Dagon, Baal, Asheroth, Meradoch, just to name a few. They are gone (or at least, on a long hiatus). God, however, is alive and well. In fact, the first commandment stated that Israel was to have no other gods before Him. "
i didnt even read past this garbage, your god is no better then theirs and your god has no proof of his existence. how do you knwo they are gone and your god is alive and well? this is rhetoric, plain and simple. its painful to read your posts you dont know how to form an argument, and use the bible as proof of the bible. your god doesnt exist, and for many reasons. you choose not to acknowledge them and pretend that all the other deities are long gone while yours is still alive. give me some proof, why your god. dont use the bible as proof as this is circular logic and i think we have been nice enough to allow you to use logic fallacy after fallacy and still debate you.
Well, thank you SOOOOOOOO much for being so kind to little old me ::) .
If you didn't read past this "garbage", can you kindly explain the other post to which I just responded (the one about other gods was #10; the other one a response to #7)?
The point, which you missed by a country mile, was that Trapezkerl's claim (assuming that this was actually his own, for once) of Christians denying the existence of other gods was false. And, I listed the reason why. Specifically, I posted the names of the gods of Israel's neighbors, gods whom Israel was instructed not to worship, nor were they to worship God the way their neighbors worship their respective deities.
Have you seen any Asheroth poles lately? Have any of your buddies passed their kids through the fire to praise Molech (I forgot about him)?
It can't simply be due to the fact that the nations of people who worshipped these gods were killed or enslaved. Such has happened to the children of Israel (many times over), yet they were enslaved only as long as God permitted and freed when and where God said they would be. I can't say the same Asheroth, Molech, Baal, and the others.
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God knowing the future does not necessarily mean that free will doesn't exist.
Let's say you put a piece of cake with frosting out on the kitchen table and had the supernatural knowledge that I would eat it when I saw it. Then I do come along and eat it :-[ . That in no way means my free will to eat it didn't exist right? You didn't make me eat it...I ate it of my own volition.
Great analogy, Ro!
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Once again, your complaints stem from your warped premise that free will means absence of consequences for certain behavior. What you want is freedom without responsibility or accountability. That will not happen on any level, God or no God.
With regards to the Egypt thing, Pharoah had the option of releasing the Hebrews nine times, before the tenth and most devastating plague hit. He chose not to heed God's warning through Moses. Therefore, he and his people suffered as a result.
As for your claims of not being able to have free will, if God intervenes, that is patently false, especially when (in the majority of the cases), divine intervention occurs at the REQUEST of the believer. There is a verse in Deut. (I think it's 30:19) that states that God sets before His people life and death, blessings and curses, and He advises them to choose blessings. If you, by your own actions, choose the curses, that's on YOU, not God, or anyone else.
Furthermore, wherever you're getting this idea that God is absent in suffering but present in good times, I'd suggest you take that back. Job said it best, despite the suffering he endured, he acknowledged the presence of God, "Naked I came into this world and naked I will leave; the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord".
As long as there is sin in this world, there will be suffering. And, as I've stated on numerous occasions, the worst part about sin is that the suffering isn't limited to the transgressors. Other people can suffer, as a result of your sins (and mine). And I can suffer, from other people's sins, as can you.
Also ranking high on the ridiculous scale is your claim that life is pointless, if God knows the future. To the contrary, I would ask if there is no God, what is the point of life, simply to survive? If that's it, then life indeed is pointless, because NOBODY SURVIVES. Death comes to everybody, whether by disease, murder, accident, or our mortal bodies simply giving out. Nobody gets out of life alive.
The only One who has a right to end life is He who gave life in the first place. Man is God's creation; He can do what He pleases with what is His. Man is instructed not to murder, because he cannot give life to anyone. Any instruction that man is given to end another man's life is for a specific purpose, usually a major trangression of His law (i.e. rape, adultery, murder, persecution of His people, etc.).
OHHHHHH SNAAAAP!!!! ;D
MCWAY broke it off in them heathens. I'll say it again, preach on brother.
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are you honestly insane? im not kidding. the first two arguments are not even arguments but opinions. just look at this non sense. its obvious from the glaring reviews of his ridiculous post that beleivers need little to be swayed, what a shock.
"And you don't seem to flinch when hearing about the male Hebrews, slaughtered by the Egyptians. Or, the little fact that Pharoah had nine other opportunities to release the Israelites, before the plague hit the firstborn of Egypt. And you seem to conveniently ignore those ethnic groups (deal with by God) attacked Israel unprovoked for centuries. But, I get it now, Israel is supposed to get attacked mercilessly, century after century, to which folks like you will howl and yak about "Where is God?" Yet, when the Almighty has had enough and renders judgment on those oppressing His people, now all of a sudden, He's too cruel and harsh."
ok mcway, god knows the future. hence if he does free will doesnt exist as our lives are pre determined. also, the fact that he created the first murderers or the egyptians knowing that they would kill totally puts the burden on your god. your argument is like arguing that a person choose downsyndrome. god created the egyptians knowing what would happen as he can see into the future, allowed them to murder according to the script he laid out then decided to slay them. you cant have free will and a god who knows the future. you cant have free will and a god who intervenes, your belief is wrought with contradiction. your god is missing in times of suffering, and when something good happens you attribute it to god. if you attribute miracles to god then you also must attribute atroscities to him as well, as there are no real criteria for choice other the personal preference.
Bro, I AM insane. Crazy 'Bout Christ! :P My God is your God too. Just because you deny him doesn't make him go away.
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Well, thank you SOOOOOOOO much for being so kind to little old me ::) .
If you didn't read past this "garbage", can you kindly explain the other post to which I just responded (the one about other gods was #10; the other one a response to #7)?
The point, which you missed by a country mile, was that Trapezkerl's claim (assuming that this was actually his own, for once) of Christians denying the existence of other gods was false. And, I listed the reason why. Specifically, I posted the names of the gods of Israel's neighbors, gods whom Israel was instructed not to worship, nor were they to worship God the way their neighbors worship their respective deities.
Have you seen any Asheroth poles lately? Have any of your buddies passed their kids through the fire to praise Molech (I forgot about him)?
It can't simply be due to the fact that the nations of people who worshipped these gods were killed or enslaved. Such has happened to the children of Israel (many times over), yet they were enslaved only as long as God permitted and freed when and where God said they would be. I can't say the same Asheroth, Molech, Baal, and the others.
you keep missing the point about free will, just because you think you performed the action does not mean you had free will. obviously if god knows what you will already do you then you dont have free will, how could you? to god your doing what is expected but to you your acting our your own free will. you didnt even adress my argument, or the fact that open theism was created by christian scholars to avoid this silly contradiction. you also never even adressed my points you just blathered on about your god and said the same thing to which i already responded.
"Have you seen any Asheroth poles lately? Have any of your buddies passed their kids through the fire to praise Molech (I forgot about him)? "
the reason you think your god still exists while many others have passed(which is a strong argument that your god to is fiction) is that you guys have your god as the creator of all the beginning, you say he is infinite and eternal and supernatural, thus we cant test any of your claims and you guys have a nice cozy deity which cannot be proven or falsified, LOL. and what a great god he is, he allows murder, breaks his own rules, and participates in killing. he gets mad if you dont worship him, is jealous as outlined in the bible(which defeats your all good god).
so go ahead now and ignore my points and keep on preaching brother, your god is still strong, hiding in eternity as a blip in a quantum vaccum, how majestic.
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Bro, I AM insane. Crazy 'Bout Christ! :P My God is your God too. Just because you deny him doesn't make him go away.
your god is a disgusting, hypocrite who murders children.
you know what disgusts me though. is that the pope, all the chruches etc have spent millions on churches, perhaps billions and the pope lives in one of the wealthiest nations/cities in the world. then you have starving children, dying youth, and homeless which are hungry. but god needs those elaborate chruches, because starving kids arent as important. keep giving money to the collection plate and maybe the pope can buy some iced out goblets full of holy water. all praise your god
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your god is a disgusting, hypocrite who murders children.
you know what disgusts me though. is that the pope, all the chruches etc have spent millions on churches, perhaps billions and the pope lives in one of the wealthiest nations/cities in the world. then you have starving children, dying youth, and homeless which are hungry. but god needs those elaborate chruches, because starving kids arent as important. keep giving money to the collection plate and maybe the pope can buy some iced out goblets full of holy water. all praise your god
brother, you will pay dearly for your words one day.
you're obviously ticked off and trying to drag us down to your pissed off level
what dumb analogies you have.
btw, who murders children?? God? you're a flat out idiot.
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brother, you will pay dearly for your words one day.
you're obviously ticked off and trying to drag us down to your pissed off level
what dumb analogies you have.
btw, who murders children?? God? you're a flat out idiot.
LOL. insted of wasting my life im dedicating it to helping people, insted of wasting my money on church and wasting my time praying i take action. your prays havent saved sick children, your prayers havent done shit, the only thing that has is action. if you where a true christian you would sell all your possesions give the money to the sick and needy, and live a life much like christ. but your a hypocrite too, probably living in a nice home, perhaps fat like most americans(dont worry about glutony ::)) and sin daily. but insted you ask for forgivenss and god ticks you off on the naughty or nice list. your religion fits the definiton of terrorism perfectly. LOL
god loves you, but if you dont bow to him he will burn you alive. praise to god.
i am bitter about some things. for one i see sick people daily now, and some with serious issues like aids, MS, cancer etc.. looking for some form of help. your god doesnt do shit.
answer this question if god orders thous shall not kill and then kills, doenst that make him a hypocrite.
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LOL. insted of wasting my life im dedicating it to helping people, insted of wasting my money on church and wasting my time praying i take action. your prays havent saved sick children, your prayers havent done shit, the only thing that has is action. if you where a true christian you would sell all your possesions give the money to the sick and needy, and live a life much like christ. but your a hypocrite too, probably living in a nice home, perhaps fat like most americans(dont worry about glutony ::)) and sin daily. but insted you ask for forgivenss and god ticks you off on the naughty or nice list. your religion fits the definiton of terrorism perfectly. LOL
god loves you, but if you dont bow to him he will burn you alive. praise to god.
i am bitter about some things. for one i see sick people daily now, and some with serious issues like aids, MS, cancer etc.. looking for some form of help. your god doesnt do shit.
answer this question if god orders thous shall not kill and then kills, doenst that make him a hypocrite.
What He says is do not murder.
There are things I've read and seen that I don't understand. There are things I question. There are things that frustrate me. But when I step back and look at the entire picture, I do see a loving God who has and continues to bless me and others immensely. I can't explain why suffering happens. I believe sin/Satan are responsible for suffering, but if you ask why God allows that continue, I'll say I don't really know. I've heard varying reasons why. I'm sure there is a reason for everything. I'm not sure I completely understand why He permits it to continue. I do think sin has to run it's course and that everyone has to be given an opportunity to accept Christ into their hearts. In the meantime, there will be murder, sickness, suffering, death, etc.
I don't allow my questions to interfere with my relationship with God.
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What He says is do not murder.
There are things I've read and seen that I don't understand. There are things I question. There are things that frustrate me. But when I step back and look at the entire picture, I do see a loving God who has and continues to bless me and others immensely. I can't explain why suffering happens. I believe sin/Satan are responsible for suffering, but if you ask why God allows that continue, I'll say I don't really know. I've heard varying reasons why. I'm sure there is a reason for everything. I'm not sure I completely understand why He permits it to continue. I do think sin has to run it's course and that everyone has to be given an opportunity to accept Christ into their hearts. In the meantime, there will be murder, sickness, suffering, death, etc.
I don't allow my questions to interfere with my relationship with God.
again if god is the alpha and omega he created the devil, and knowing the future he knew the suffering he would bring. also, he coudl destroy the devil if he wanted since he is omnipotent. the devil doesnt exist. suffering exists in the animal kingdom too, is that the devil and the sins of tigers?
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again if god is the alpha and omega he created the devil, and knowing the future he knew the suffering he would bring. also, he coudl destroy the devil if he wanted since he is omnipotent. the devil doesnt exist. suffering exists in the animal kingdom too, is that the devil and the sins of tigers?
I think all suffering and death is the result of sin/Satan. No, animals aren't human, but the effects of man's sin and of Satan have consequences in both the animal kingdom and in the environment.
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I think all suffering and death is the result of sin/Satan. No, animals aren't human, but the effects of man's sin and of Satan have consequences in both the animal kingdom and in the environment.
you ignored my reason why the devil cannot exist and why something like the devil is in direct contradiction to an all knowing, loving god.
god cannot know the future. he must be as blind as we are in order to allow true love to unfold. this is the only way, many top theists(in philosophy) agree on this point, many do not. but its a certain contradiction.
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you ignored my reason why the devil cannot exist and why something like the devil is in direct contradiction to an all knowing, loving god.
god cannot know the future. he must be as blind as we are in order to allow true love to unfold. this is the only way, many top theists(in philosophy) agree on this point, many do not. but its a certain contradiction.
I didn't ignore your reason. I just don't agree with it. I don't reach the conclusion that God doesn't exist because there are questions I cannot answer about why certain things happen. I simply look at my own life and those of others, compare them what happens with what God has promised, and reach a conclusion.
No one can prove or disprove the existence of God to anyone.
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I didn't ignore your reason. I just don't agree with it. I don't reach the conclusion that God doesn't exist because there are questions I cannot answer about why certain things happen. I simply look at my own life and those of others, compare them what happens with what God has promised, and reach a conclusion.
No one can prove or disprove the existence of God to anyone.
to the illogical you cannot. i cannot prove thor doesnt exist but through logic and reason i can provide strong evidence that the chances of him occuring are minimal.
answer my questions.
how can god know the future, and create the devil. ?
how can god be all loving and have negative traits.?
how can god know the future and allow for free will?
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to the illogical you cannot. i cannot prove thor doesnt exist but through logic and reason i can provide strong evidence that the chances of him occuring are minimal.
answer my questions.
how can god know the future, and create the devil. ?
how can god be all loving and have negative traits.?
how can god know the future and allow for free will?
1. I don't know.
2. He doesn't have negative traits.
3. Knowing the future and allowing free will are not inconsistent. I agree with what Stella previously said in this regard.
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1. I don't know.
2. He doesn't have negative traits.
3. Knowing the future and allowing free will are not inconsistent. I agree with what Stella previously said in this regard.
anger is a negative trait, jealousy is a negative trait, being able to create evil as he is the source of all is a negative thing.
i disagree with your last point from the reasons presented above. geuss we will agree to disagree
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anger is a negative trait, jealousy is a negative trait, being able to create evil as he is the source of all is a negative thing.
i disagree with your last point from the reasons presented above. geuss we will agree to disagree
Anger is a normal emotion. That's why the Bible says "be angry," but don't sin. Jealously can be either positive or negative.
God didn't create evil. He created a perfect being who became evil. Why did He do that if He knew the results in advance? I really don't know. There are a number of questions I'll have for Him when I get to heaven.
Like I said earlier, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. There are too many people, myself included, who have a deep personal relationship with Him and have seen Him work on their lives. This isnt a science discussion. Its about faith and trust in a higher power.
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Anger is a normal emotion. That's why the Bible says "be angry," but don't sin. Jealously can be either positive or negative.
God didn't create evil. He created a perfect being who became evil. Why did He do that if He knew the results in advance? I really don't know. There are a number of questions I'll have for Him when I get to heaven.
Like I said earlier, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. There are too many people, myself included, who have a deep personal relationship with Him and have seen Him work on their lives. This isnt a science discussion. Its about faith and trust in a higher power.
anger is a normal emotion, so is depression, anxiety etc but that doesnt mean its positive. there are also people with a deep association with the FSM, vishnu and billybootgarbage bags. that is not an argument in the least.
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anger is a normal emotion, so is depression, anxiety etc but that doesnt mean its positive. there are also people with a deep association with the FSM, vishnu and billybootgarbage bags. that is not an argument in the least.
Depression isn't normal. It's a disorder.
I'm not really making an argument.
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Well, thank you SOOOOOOOO much for being so kind to little old me ::) .
If you didn't read past this "garbage", can you kindly explain the other post to which I just responded (the one about other gods was #10; the other one a response to #7)?
The point, which you missed by a country mile, was that Trapezkerl's claim (assuming that this was actually his own, for once) of Christians denying the existence of other gods was false. And, I listed the reason why. Specifically, I posted the names of the gods of Israel's neighbors, gods whom Israel was instructed not to worship, nor were they to worship God the way their neighbors worship their respective deities.
Have you seen any Asheroth poles lately? Have any of your buddies passed their kids through the fire to praise Molech (I forgot about him)?
It can't simply be due to the fact that the nations of people who worshipped these gods were killed or enslaved. Such has happened to the children of Israel (many times over), yet they were enslaved only as long as God permitted and freed when and where God said they would be. I can't say the same Asheroth, Molech, Baal, and the others.
Your god Jehovah is just a local fertility deity, no more special than Queztalcoatal, Thor or Dagda (infact these deities were much more significant).
Development of Jehovah
The development of monotheism is also different than the version the Holy Book want us to believe. Even the almighty God was once a small insignificant deity. Originally Jehovah was a nature deity, a fertility deity responsible for rain and sun and good crops. All over the holy land idols made of metal or clay are found, both female and male idols. The Jews worshipped a polytheistic fertility religion. Their main male tribal god originally also had a female companion. As late as 100 BC the farmers around Jerusalem practiced polytheistic fertility rituals. And in Jerusalem the temple prostitution flourished. The Jewish prohibition on making depictions of God is also far younger than the Bible claims. In Ugarit, 400 km from Jerusalem, a small figurine of clay was excavated. The figurine shows a bearded man an depicts El, the wise one and heavenly father, - an early version of Jehovah. Excavations also show that the Jews had altars of limestone where they honoured their ancestors and made offerings to the natural deities. Rain deities are always popular in desert areas, and the rain god Baal was worshipped in several varieties, - one of which was Jehovah.
http://www.bandoli.no/archaeology.htm
One of many and as the other poster said, you have no more evidence for your fertility god than we do for Zeus, Poseidon, Vishnu, Shiva, Baldr or any of the thousands of other gods that still live or more fortuitously have been relegated to the scrapheap of history we call mythology.
An entirely different question to our resident fundy: what is the molecular composition of heaven and hell? Are they even composed of matter and energy? Are they even part of the known universe or are they magically 'hidden' as are your forever unprovable wrath besotten, anxiety ridden desert deity of goat herders and his alleged 'son' in a loin cloth?
P.S. you have been indoctrinated MCWAY, brutally. Do you really think you would be a biblical creationist if it weren't for having heard it all your childhood and continously as teenager? I think not.
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Depression isn't normal. It's a disorder.
I'm not really making an argument.
depression, anxiety, anger are all normal emotions, such that everyone has them. they are at one end of the spectrum and joy for example is at the other. every emotion if too much is a pathology, for example to much joy is mania, perhaps worse then major depression. they are just negative emotions no one likes to experience. anger is a negative emotion, evil, hate are also negative. ALL-LOVING and perfect would lead me to suspect he has no flaws, hence no down days, no anger nothing that us humans suffer from.
depression is certainly normal, everyone feels depressed from time to time about stuff, doesnt make it a pathology.
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what i love is how christians claim god lives in eternity, but created the heavens and earth or a temporal existence. funny how the thought of action and eternity contradict themselves, while they talk about it as if they have intimate knowledge of the unknowable.
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depression, anxiety, anger are all normal emotions, such that everyone has them. they are at one end of the spectrum and joy for example is at the other. every emotion if too much is a pathology, for example to much joy is mania, perhaps worse then major depression. they are just negative emotions no one likes to experience. anger is a negative emotion, evil, hate are also negative. ALL-LOVING and perfect would lead me to suspect he has no flaws, hence no down days, no anger nothing that us humans suffer from.
depression is certainly normal, everyone feels depressed from time to time about stuff, doesnt make it a pathology.
"Depression is not something you can just 'snap out of.' It's caused by an imbalance of brain chemicals, along with other factors. Like any serious medical condition, depression needs to be treated." http://www.depression.com/
You disagree with this? It isn't an "imbalance of brain chemicals"?
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Ummm, NO!!! There's no denial that they exist. It's just that they don't quite stack up to our God. I give you Dagon, Baal, Asheroth, Meradoch, just to name a few. They are gone (or at least, on a long hiatus). God, however, is alive and well. In fact, the first commandment stated that Israel was to have no other gods before Him.
Interesting claim. :)
What makes you think so?
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"Depression is not something you can just 'snap out of.' It's caused by an imbalance of brain chemicals, along with other factors. Like any serious medical condition, depression needs to be treated." http://www.depression.com/
You disagree with this? It isn't an "imbalance of brain chemicals"?
not really, tell me how do they know there is a balance of brain chemicals. the know via reverse engineering that is giving drugs and determining the reactions the drugs have. there are ssri, maois, tricyclics etc and many neurotransmitters like serotonin, noepinephrine, dopamine which all play a role. your talking about major depression, everyone gets depressed from time to time. thats why there is an arbitrary illness period if you want of 2 weeks of feeling sad before the depression diagnosis is made, mainly because people feel depressed from time to time, when its winter, during rainy days etc.. depression is normal, major depression is not. anxiety is normal, generalized anxiety disorder is not.
i would also like to bring to light the fact that drugs like tianeptine a serotonin UPTAKE agonist decrease depression like serotonin REUPTAKE INHIBITORS but they dont know why. that is, the drugs have opposite pharmacokinetics but similar effect. thus one increases synaptic concentrations of serotonin and some decrease. also stims like adderall are used for refractory depression as well as amphetamines.
so i somewhat agree with the statement but there are many prominent researchers who disagree, namely many psychotherapists, cbt, dialectic etc.. who feel faulty thinking patterns, lead to feelings not the other way around. and if you read the literature you will see that CBT is = or superior to psychopharmacological intervention
so i dont disagree i just dont think its clear cut and anyone who takes a real rigid stance like that are kidding themselves imo. i think its an interplay of chemicals, learned habituated behaviour, thinking and life circumstances, and overall health, diet etc..
i got a little of track but my point is depression is a normal feeling, just like anxiety. you feel anxious every now and then right? do you have a pathology? i wouldnt say so. but people with OCD, GAD, PANIC DISORDER do. i dont see how you can disagree with me, i am right. i have no doubts about it, and they are negative emotions not something a perfect beign would have.
sorry i wanted to add one more thing, there is no test to determine "chemical imbalance" thus its somewhat of an ethics issue for doctors to claim this. if you cant test for it, you cant say things like that.
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i agree with you beach bum that this is not a scientific debate for the most part, its definitely philosophical. but when people claim the earth is 6000 years old, science can disprove this silly notion.
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i agree with you beach bum that this is not a scientific debate for the most part, its definitely philosophical. but when people claim the earth is 6000 years old, science can disprove this silly notion.
Tell that to MCWAY! ;D
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not really, tell me how do they know there is a balance of brain chemicals. the know via reverse engineering that is giving drugs and determining the reactions the drugs have. there are ssri, maois, tricyclics etc and many neurotransmitters like serotonin, noepinephrine, dopamine which all play a role. your talking about major depression, everyone gets depressed from time to time. thats why there is an arbitrary illness period if you want of 2 weeks of feeling sad before the depression diagnosis is made, mainly because people feel depressed from time to time, when its winter, during rainy days etc.. depression is normal, major depression is not. anxiety is normal, generalized anxiety disorder is not.
i would also like to bring to light the fact that drugs like tianeptine a serotonin UPTAKE agonist decrease depression like serotonin REUPTAKE INHIBITORS but they dont know why. that is, the drugs have opposite pharmacokinetics but similar effect. thus one increases synaptic concentrations of serotonin and some decrease. also stims like adderall are used for refractory depression as well as amphetamines.
so i somewhat agree with the statement but there are many prominent researchers who disagree, namely many psychotherapists, cbt, dialectic etc.. who feel faulty thinking patterns, lead to feelings not the other way around. and if you read the literature you will see that CBT is = or superior to psychopharmacological intervention
so i dont disagree i just dont think its clear cut and anyone who takes a real rigid stance like that are kidding themselves imo. i think its an interplay of chemicals, learned habituated behaviour, thinking and life circumstances, and overall health, diet etc..
i got a little of track but my point is depression is a normal feeling, just like anxiety. you feel anxious every now and then right? do you have a pathology? i wouldnt say so. but people with OCD, GAD, PANIC DISORDER do. i dont see how you can disagree with me, i am right. i have no doubts about it, and they are negative emotions not something a perfect beign would have.
sorry i wanted to add one more thing, there is no test to determine "chemical imbalance" thus its somewhat of an ethics issue for doctors to claim this. if you cant test for it, you cant say things like that.
I think I understand what you're saying. A person who is sad is essentially depressed, but there is a difference between that and being "clinically depressed." Is that right?
I agree that sadness is a normal human emotion.
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i agree with you beach bum that this is not a scientific debate for the most part, its definitely philosophical. but when people claim the earth is 6000 years old, science can disprove this silly notion.
Yep. We agree. Philosophical.
I don't know how old the earth is, but that's a different issue.
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i agree with you beach bum that this is not a scientific debate for the most part, its definitely philosophical. but when people claim the earth is 6000 years old, science can disprove this silly notion.
you fucking homosexual, shut your mouth fag got.
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you fucking homosexual, shut your mouth fag got.
how many men did you make it through after?
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I think I understand what you're saying. A person who is sad is essentially depressed, but there is a difference between that and being "clinically depressed." Is that right?
I agree that sadness is a normal human emotion.
yep, im using depression and sadness or feeling down interchangebly which is different from the disorder.
we got off topic, i was just trying to argue that you cant have a perfect being with flaws that is all. and jealousy is a flaw in my book, as well as anger. also, worship leads me to think he needs things, or wants, which is also inconsistent with the above traits.
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how many men did you make it through after?
man haider, everytime i see that picture of you the happiness and pleasure in your face is something only a new mother could enjoy. all i hope is that the "bros" enjoyed the receiving as much as you enjoyed the giving.
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again if god is the alpha and omega he created the devil, and knowing the future he knew the suffering he would bring. also, he coudl destroy the devil if he wanted since he is omnipotent. the devil doesnt exist. suffering exists in the animal kingdom too, is that the devil and the sins of tigers?
And when He does, will you then blubber and complain about why God destroyed him (which He will eventually, BTW)?
Your god Jehovah is just a local fertility deity, no more special than Queztalcoatal, Thor or Dagda (infact these deities were much more significant).
http://www.bandoli.no/archaeology.htm
Where do I begin with this stuff? Let's see:
The development of monotheism is also different than the version the Holy Book want us to believe. Even the almighty God was once a small insignificant deity. Originally Jehovah was a nature deity, a fertility deity responsible for rain and sun and good crops. All over the holy land idols made of metal or clay are found, both female and male idols. The Jews worshipped a polytheistic fertility religion. Their main male tribal god originally also had a female companion. As late as 100 BC the farmers around Jerusalem practiced polytheistic fertility rituals. And in Jerusalem the temple prostitution flourished. The Jewish prohibition on making depictions of God is also far younger than the Bible claims. In Ugarit, 400 km from Jerusalem, a small figurine of clay was excavated. The figurine shows a bearded man an depicts El, the wise one and heavenly father, - an early version of Jehovah. Excavations also show that the Jews had altars of limestone where they honoured their ancestors and made offerings to the natural deities. Rain deities are always popular in desert areas, and the rain god Baal was worshipped in several varieties, - one of which was Jehovah.
Hmmmm.....The Israelites fell into apostasy on more than one occasion (several of them, in fact, as depicted in the Bible). The Israelites were iinstructed not to worship other gods. Also, they were told not to worship God, as the other nations around them worship their gods. As the Old Testament shows, the Israelites disobeyed that edict, multiple times (Shortly after leaving Egypt, they erected that golden calf). So, exactly why should we be surprised that idols were found in the Holy Land?
Temple prostitution flourished? DUH!!! That's how Samuel got his job. He replaced Eli and his sons, because Eli's boys were fornicating with women in the temple. Or, as the the text states, "His (Eli's) sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not."
As for the other claim about the Exodus not happening and there being no evidence of such, again you missed the National Geographic special, which discussed the plagues. Of course, there is indeed archaeological evidence supporting the Exodus, some of which can be found here:
http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodus.htm (http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodus.htm)
One of many and as the other poster said, you have no more evidence for your fertility god than we do for Zeus, Poseidon, Vishnu, Shiva, Baldr or any of the thousands of other gods that still live or more fortuitously have been relegated to the scrapheap of history we call mythology.
Yet, what continually burns your biscuits is that the so-called fertility god Jehovah is one Deity that none of the godless crew over the millenia (including yourself) can relegate to that scrapheap (and it ain't been for lack of trying). As for evidence, it's funny that the link you brought up mentioned Baal. Exactly how is Jehovah a variation of Baal, when we have, to the contrary, a confrontation between the prophets of Baal and one prophet of Jehovah?
And that's certainly not the first instance that the worshippers of Baal fell, as a prophecy against them, recorded in Scripture, came to pass in quite striking details. (Hint: it's found in the book of Ezekiel).
An entirely different question to our resident fundy: what is the molecular composition of heaven and hell? Are they even composed of matter and energy? Are they even part of the known universe or are they magically 'hidden' as are your forever unprovable wrath besotten, anxiety ridden desert deity of goat herders and his alleged 'son' in a loin cloth?
I don't know. There is a point to this question, I hope. Of course, believing in something you've never seen and nobody has ever observed shouldn't be a problem for you, either, given your holding to being the product of 5-billion-year-old goo.
P.S. you have been indoctrinated MCWAY, brutally. Do you really think you would be a biblical creationist if it weren't for having heard it all your childhood and continously as teenager? I think not.
The thing you forget, Trapezkerl, is that (contrary to Usmokepole's claim), I indeed have this thing called FREE WILL. That means that I have the choice of believing what I have learned or not. And, what you REPEATEDLY fail to forget is that people of faith come from all walks of life. There are people who did not grow up in Christian homes, did not go to Christian schools, YET they became Christians.
Conversely, a signficant numbers of atheists come from religious backgrounds (many of them, I've noticed, grew up in Catholic homes). In short, Christians have become atheists; atheists have become Christians; Christians have remained Christians; and non-believers have remained non-believers.
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Interesting claim. :)
What makes you think so?
Bump for answer from MCWAY!
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Bump for answer from MCWAY!
Sorry for the delay. Trapezkerl's claim was that Christians denied the existence of other gods. My initial post show that to be patently false. As for why I think that they are no more (or on hiatus), while God reigns supreme:
Though I didn't address you directly, I thought I addressed this on my earlier post. I mentioned the confrontation between the prophets of Baal and the prophet of God (in this particular case, Elijah). It was after the prophets of Baal lost, that Elijah and crew went to work.
Not to mention, there was another prophecy against the worshippers of Baal, mentioned in the book of Ezekiel. It involves how and when their empire would come to an end. My take is that, if Baal (or another of those gods, Melkart) could have stopped such a prophecy from being fulfilled, he would have done so.
That's just one of the reasons.
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Sorry for the delay. Trapezkerl's claim was that Christians denied the existence of other gods. My initial post show that to be patently false. As for why I think that they are no more (or on hiatus), while God reigns supreme:
Though I didn't address you directly, I thought I addressed this on my earlier post. I mentioned the confrontation between the prophets of Baal and the prophet of God (in this particular case, Elijah). It was after the prophets of Baal lost, that Elijah and crew went to work.
Not to mention, there was another prophecy against the worshippers of Baal, mentioned in the book of Ezekiel. It involves how and when their empire would come to an end. My take is that, if Baal (or another of those gods, Melkart) could have stopped such a prophecy from being fulfilled, he would have done so.
That's just one of the reasons.
Look at the World Wars.
Look at the 9/11.
Look at the Tsunami, the Global Warming, the Genocide in Rwanda, The Killing Fields in Kambodia.
You mean to tell me Jahve (the Christian God) is still present, and the other Gods are not back?
All these wars, all this suffering.