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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on February 21, 2014, 04:41:39 AM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/us/public-sector-cuts-part-time-shifts-to-duck-insurance-law.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0
LOL
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Just read the comments - shows how utterly whacked out most liberal communists are
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But, but, but there is no evidence that crapcare has affected the labor force in anyway. So said the useless secretary of the HHS.
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But, but, but there is no evidence that crapcare has affected the labor force in anyway. So said the useless secretary of the HHS.
Just read those comments - sick!
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But, but, but there is no evidence that crapcare has affected the labor force in anyway. So said the useless secretary of the HHS.
You have no idea about the law and why this is stupid.
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SheYou has no idea about the law and why this law is so stupid.
Fixed.
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You have no idea about the law and why this is stupid.
LOL!!!!
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LOL!!!!
That is why I come to these boards.
These delusional libtards are hilarious.
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There should be public unions in place to collectively bargain with these bureaucrats. The individual penalty for not being insured is the higher of a couple of hundred bucks for the year or 1% of your annual income. It's better to keep these people uninsured and working less hours? The back-end costs of emergency room coverage make this sort of thinking implausible.
The ACA is not good law but it's better than what was there before. The country needed a Public Option for insurance and instead it got a steaming pile of this retread republican health plan.
To me, this just illustrates in spades the deplorable treatment of public workers. They perform essential duties but can't get decent pay or insurance. That is unconscionable today...in the richest country in the history of the world.
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The ACA is not good law but it's better than what was there before. The country needed a Public Option for insurance and instead it got a steaming pile of this retread republican health plan.
HEHEHEHE!!!
Better than what was before? How? When LESS people are insured now than before, HOW IS IT BETTER? How is it better when people with individual plans have to pay a higher premium for coverages they don't need, can't keep their doctor and in some instances they can't go to their local hospital?
How is it better when people have to carry a much higher deductible on their policy? Or when the only ones that could possibly benefit are people at the poverty line or earning less than 40k a year because then they can qualify for some subsidy that is paid for by all those other people that have had their premiums increase?
If you are going to say that it's better because MORE people are going to be insured then that is still not a valid reason. Why? Because you have destroyed insurance policies, policies that 85% of insured people were happy with, in order to TRY to cover the uninsured. I say TRY because by CBO calculations 30 MILLION WILL STILL BE UNINSURED UNDER CRAPCARE. 30 MILLION!! So it doesn't even accomplish what it was created to supposedly achieve.
If it's so wonderful and so much better than what existed, how come the clowninchief keeps delaying the employer mandates and keeps revising deadlines? HEHEHEHE!!
NO IT IS NOT BETTER THAN BEFORE. That is a lie. Was the health insurance system perfect before crapcare? No. It was not. But crapcare has made it A WHOLE LOT WORSE.
This is a plan created by democrats. They need to take responsibility for this trainwreck. And it is a trainwreck. There is no way around it.
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It's actually very simple. Obamacare, from the start, was a political ploy to prey upon the weak minded people whose only true concern is gay marriage and abortion.
I am the first to admit that I may be wrong about this but this is what I see.
In order to combat high deductible subpar insurance policies offered by private industry, Obamacare offered a public market where people could pay another private insurance carrier (selected by Obama's cronies. some people were made very rich by Obamacare) to offer their own shitty insurance that isn't any less expensive than their old shitty insurance policy but you buy it from a .gov website so it must be good because its offered by people who love gay people and want to go to their weddings and stuff.
someone tell me where i'm wrong.
personally, I have Blue Cross Blue Shield and the Obamacare mandates were extended so Blue Cross didn't have to raise my monthly rates by the 46% they originally told me that they were going up.....yet. But when the Obamacare mandates kick in, my rates will most probably go up by over 50%. I don't know what we're going to do when they do kick in. I will probably have to go to the exchange so that I can at least save a little bit on my insurance plan for myself and my employees. the sad part is that it won't be a whole lot cheaper and it will be a great deal more expensive than it was before this whole Obamacare shit show happened.
To the people who claimed over the last 6 years that Obama is not trying to take over the health care industry.....Obamacare's mandates jacked up all of our private health insurance premiums, then he offers policies on an exchange that are a little bit cheaper than the jacked up rates, but a good deal more expensive than the private rates were before the obamacare mandates. what else do you call that?
like I said before, the Republicans are allowing the Democrats to destroy this country all because they won't cave on gay marriage. If you vote Republican or Democrat this election, you're a stupid person. plain and simple. and when people ask me about the election, that's what im going to tell them. I know I won't be popular.
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HEHEHEHE!!!
Better than what was before? How? When LESS people are insured now than before, HOW IS IT BETTER? How is it better when people with individual plans have to pay a higher premium for coverages they don't need, can't keep their doctor and in some instances they can't go to their local hospital?
How is it better when people have to carry a much higher deductible on their policy? Or when the only ones that could possibly benefit are people at the poverty line or earning less than 40k a year because then they can qualify for some subsidy that is paid for by all those other people that have had their premiums increase?
If you are going to say that it's better because MORE people are going to be insured then that is still not a valid reason. Why? Because you have destroyed insurance policies, policies that 85% of insured people were happy with, in order to TRY to cover the uninsured. I say TRY because by CBO calculations 30 MILLION WILL STILL BE UNINSURED UNDER CRAPCARE. 30 MILLION!! So it doesn't even accomplish what it was created to supposedly achieve.
If it's so wonderful and so much better than what existed, how come the clowninchief keeps delaying the employer mandates and keeps revising deadlines? HEHEHEHE!!
NO IT IS NOT BETTER THAN BEFORE. That is a lie. Was the health insurance system perfect before crapcare? No. It was not. But crapcare has made it A WHOLE LOT WORSE.
This is a plan created by democrats. They need to take responsibility for this trainwreck. And it is a trainwreck. There is no way around it.
As stated, the ACA is not good law. Since most of the ACA's key elements have been operational for a month and some change and since open enrollment for the ACA still has about a month and a half for 2014, I'm a little bit leery of your cast iron negative projections.
But there are certainly good things about the law that you must admit: pre-existing conditions as a basis for denying coverage is gone. That alone is simply incredible. Ask people with cancer, type 2 diabetes, etc., etc., the value of that. What is it, some 14 million people have cancer in the US and 41% of the population is projected to get cancer at some point and become uninsurable under the prior regime.
Here's an even-handed list of the good things: http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2013/07/15/10-good-things-about-obamacare
The ACA is a market-based program for dealing with healthcare coverage. It was formulated by the Heritage Foundation (conservative / republican think-tank back in the 80s). Romney implemented a version of it when he was governor of MA.
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/heritage-foundation-invidual-mandate-2.jpg)
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/the-heritage-plan1.jpg)
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/heritage-foundation-invidual-mandate1.jpg)
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Obamacare is a disasater we all predicted
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Obamacare is a disasater we all predicted
Tell that to the millions of children and adults denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
Can you admit some good things in the ACA? Here's a hint, it has to do with pre-existing conditions.
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Tell that to the millions of children and adults denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
Can you admit some good things in the ACA? Here's a hint, it has to do with pre-existing conditions.
That is a good part of Obamacare. We didn't need a government takeover to address preexisting conditions.
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That is a good part of Obamacare. We didn't need a government takeover to address preexisting conditions.
Government takeover? Takeover of what? The government owns no insurance company. The private big insurers that have been screwing you sideways for years with $5,000 deductibles still own the show.
No, the ACA is not good law. But it is better than what was.
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Government takeover? Takeover of what? The government owns no insurance company. The private big insurers that have been screwing you sideways for years with $5,000 deductibles still own the show.
No, the ACA is not good law. But it is better than what was.
Government takeover of the healthcare system. Government has now mandated that everyone obtain coverage or be taxed. Government has caused numerous insurance companies to drop millions of people from coverage. Government is mandating employers provide certain kinds of coverage. Government is mandating that all insurance plans offer certain coverages. That's a government takeover.
No, Obamacare is not better than what he we had, particularly for those who lost their coverage, will be taxed for not obtaining coverage, have to pay higher premiums, and lost their jobs due to Obamacare.
We used a sledgehammer to kill a flea.
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Government takeover? Takeover of what? The government owns no insurance company. The private big insurers that have been screwing you sideways for years with $5,000 deductibles still own the show.
No, the ACA is not good law. But it is better than what was.
what you mean is that there is one part of the act that improved the access to health care for a relatively large group of individuals. but in the process it made it a lot harder for a lot larger group of people to afford the health care that they already had.
so is it better for some? yes.
but is it worse for most of the people? yes.
liberals always like to talk in terms of the "greater good". there is some good in Obamacare, but it made it worse for the country as a whole. unfortunately no one cares as long as we cheer on gay marriage.
and who knows what mandates they are going to put on those people with pre existing conditions. at some point the costs of caring for them is going to become too great just like it did for the private health insurance carriers. these new insurance carriers are going to have the same cash flow problems as the old ones. I don't get why people don't understand that.
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Government takeover of the healthcare system. Government has now mandated that everyone obtain coverage or be taxed. Government has caused numerous insurance companies to drop millions of people from coverage. Government is mandating employers provide certain kinds of coverage. Government is mandating that all insurance plans offer certain coverages. That's a government takeover.
No, Obamacare is not better than what he we had, particularly for those who lost their coverage, will be taxed for not obtaining coverage, have to pay higher premiums, and lost their jobs due to Obamacare.
We used a sledgehammer to kill a flea.
Get insured or pay a tax? Sounds like a choice to me...and not a mandate. But I'm not going to pick nits. The fact of the matter as I see it is that the ACA is a major payoff to big insurance. I don't see how one would portray it any other way.
Millions are being dropped from poor coverage and millions more are getting better coverage. Again, that's not a government takeover. The premiums will go down. The more people buying coverage, the more the premiums will go down. That's how insurance is supposed to work. But frankly, I don't trust big business at all. So who knows?
Remember, this is a market-based conservative insurance plan. Competition between gargantuan insurance companies in the marketplace is the essence of the ACA.
The US needed universal healthcare and we got this mess instead.
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Great talking points.
Get insured or pay a tax? Sounds like a choice to me...and not a mandate. But I'm not going to pick nits. The fact of the matter as I see it is that the ACA is a major payoff to big insurance. I don't see how one would portray it any other way.
Millions are being dropped from poor coverage and millions more are getting better coverage. Again, that's not a government takeover. The premiums will go down. The more people buying coverage, the more the premiums will go down. That's how insurance is supposed to work. But frankly, I don't trust big business at all. So who knows?
Remember, this is a market-based conservative insurance plan. Competition between gargantuan insurance companies in the marketplace is the essence of the ACA.
The US needed universal healthcare and we got this mess instead.
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what you mean is that there is one part of the act that improved the access to health care for a relatively large group of individuals. but in the process it made it a lot harder for a lot larger group of people to afford the health care that they already had.
so is it better for some? yes.
but is it worse for most of the people? yes.
liberals always like to talk in terms of the "greater good". there is some good in Obamacare, but it made it worse for the country as a whole. unfortunately no one cares as long as we cheer on gay marriage.
and who knows what mandates they are going to put on those people with pre existing conditions. at some point the costs of caring for them is going to become too great just like it did for the private health insurance carriers. these new insurance carriers are going to have the same cash flow problems as the old ones. I don't get why people don't understand that.
I think you are the only person mentioning the groaning 'greater good' of utilitarianism. And how you tie gay marriage to all this is a mystery for the ages.
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Great talking points.
Thanks. A man has to know where he stands in life and with insurance. I wish I could say something was 'great' about your response.
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Get insured or pay a tax? Sounds like a choice to me...and not a mandate. But I'm not going to pick nits. The fact of the matter as I see it is that the ACA is a major payoff to big insurance. I don't see how one would portray it any other way.
Millions are being dropped from poor coverage and millions more are getting better coverage. Again, that's not a government takeover. The premiums will go down. The more people buying coverage, the more the premiums will go down. That's how insurance is supposed to work. But frankly, I don't trust big business at all. So who knows?
Remember, this is a market-based conservative insurance plan. Competition between gargantuan insurance companies in the marketplace is the essence of the ACA.
The US needed universal healthcare and we got this mess instead.
The government taxing you if you don't enter the marketplace is not a choice.
Who defines "better coverage"? The government. For instance, the government has decided that everyone in the individual market must have maternity coverage. But if a person doesn't want kids? What if they cannot have kids? What if they're too old for kids?
A lot of people like the "crappy" coverage they had. Who the heck is Big Brother to tell those people they're coverage isn't good enough?
We needed to address a few things like preexisting conditions, costs, etc. What he didn't and don't need is the government taking over and mucking everything up.
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LOL!!!!
You have no idea bro..... hahahaha ;D
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The government taxing you if you don't enter the marketplace is not a choice.
Who defines "better coverage"? The government. For instance, the government has decided that everyone in the individual market must have maternity coverage. But if a person doesn't want kids? What if they cannot have kids? What if they're too old for kids?
A lot of people like the "crappy" coverage they had. Who the heck is Big Brother to tell those people they're coverage isn't good enough?
We needed to address a few things like preexisting conditions, costs, etc. What he didn't and don't need is the government taking over and mucking everything up.
Like I said, I won't pick nitz over your idea of what a 'mandate' means. To me, it's one course of action or the highway. To Soul Crusher, it's a dating service. (I'm goofing) To you, it's the option of entering the marketplace or paying a minimum tax so as not to be a total moocher in the healthcare system. Uninsured people that can afford coverage are moochers. They cost a whole lot more in the emergency room.
The terms of the competing insurance policies define 'better coverage.' I think that should go without saying.
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Like I said, I won't pick nitz over your idea of what a 'mandate' means. To me, it's one course of action or the highway. To Soul Crusher, it's a dating service. (I'm goofing) To you, it's the option of entering the marketplace or paying a minimum tax so as not to be a total moocher in the healthcare system. Uninsured people that can afford coverage are moochers. They cost a whole lot more in the emergency room.
The terms of the competing insurance policies define 'better coverage.' I think that should go without saying.
Actually it's the individual who should define better coverage. The cookie cutter approach is wrongheaded.
People who do not enter the marketplace are not moochers. The cost of an ER visit for an uninsured person is borne by the taxpayers as a whole, not any individual person who chooses not buy coverage.
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Great talking points.
This is funny, SC, in that it reeks of anti-intellectualism.
On the right or the left, no matter where a good, compelling point or argument originates, that does not mean the point is any less good or compelling.
Honestly, many of the folks on the right here don't seem so well-informed about the right's arguments much less those from the left.
TL;DR: Shut up about this bogus "talking points" criticism because talking points would be a step up for the right-tards here.
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Actually it's the individual who should define better coverage. The cookie cutter approach is wrongheaded.
People who do not enter the marketplace are not moochers. The cost of an ER visit for an uninsured person is borne by the taxpayers as a whole, not any individual person who chooses not buy coverage.
Big insurance defines the policies and people choose whether to buy or not. That's not my idea. That's just how it works. Your second sentence restates my point: people that don't buy insurance ultimately cost more to the public as emergency cases. They are moochers getting medical treatment at our expense, mate.
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Look at these morons criticizing the coverage people had before crapcare as "crappy policies".
Really? That is all you have. The talking points fed to you by dumocrats? Then they deny that crapcare is a takeover by the government. HEHEHEHEH! These idiots are delusional.
If those policies are so "crappy" how come the jokeinchief has extended them? How come the clowninthewhitehouse doesn't allow them to be banned as it was called by his "signature legislation" to be replaced by January 1, 2014 with those wonderful, shiny, new crapcare endorsed policies that force a grandmother to have maternity coverage and pediatric vision coverage?
Yeah. Those previous policies are so crappy, so terrible, so subpar yet your messiah is allowing them to persist. ::)
Before that he delayed the employer mandate. Wait until that kicks in. People will have higher copays, they will have more taken out of their check to pay their share and inevitably there will be people who will be laid off. I expect the employer mandate to be delayed again until after 2016. Politics.
Any legislation that FORCES people to buy a product and punishes them for not buying it and if they do buy it they don't have the choice to select the coverage they believe they need, is clearly a takeover by government.
You drones are blind.
LIBTARD LIE#1: IT WAS WORSE BEFORE CRAPCARE
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As stated, the ACA is not good law. Since most of the ACA's key elements have been operational for a month and some change and since open enrollment for the ACA still has about a month and a half for 2014, I'm a little bit leery of your cast iron negative projections.
But there are certainly good things about the law that you must admit: pre-existing conditions as a basis for denying coverage is gone. That alone is simply incredible. Ask people with cancer, type 2 diabetes, etc., etc., the value of that. What is it, some 14 million people have cancer in the US and 41% of the population is projected to get cancer at some point and become uninsurable under the prior regime.
Here's an even-handed list of the good things: http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2013/07/15/10-good-things-about-obamacare
The ACA is a market-based program for dealing with healthcare coverage. It was formulated by the Heritage Foundation (conservative / republican think-tank back in the 80s). Romney implemented a version of it when he was governor of MA.
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/heritage-foundation-invidual-mandate-2.jpg)
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/the-heritage-plan1.jpg)
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/heritage-foundation-invidual-mandate1.jpg)
Dude don't even bother with this guy, he has lied so many times about this law it's not even funny. Dude has claimed it effected his staff, meanwhile he has 3 employees or some shit which means it does not affect him.
The law has good and bad, it's too early to tell, all of these morons were calling it a failure before it went live. The fact that half the population is rooting for the president to fail is absurd. These citizens are actively fighting against any and all ideas, holding to tired ideologies like trickle down economics, or the constitution. I mean update the fucking thing, EVERYTHING EVOLVES, everything, sentences, words, ideas, humans, techology etc.... you can't have this fucking stagnant document to govern modern life, the bible is a failed example of this. Stone your kids? work on sunday and you die. When we look at history we see smart people dragging the idiots with them to the future, the idiots fight the whole way because they don't understand the context. They want things to stay the same, no change, simple local thoughts.
Look at the idiots on this board, who see snow and denounce global warming, meanwhile, the globe is heating up. The world revolves around them and there stupid beliefs, blasphemy they say, don't challenge my dumb ideas. Hide behind authority and respect.
Dario thinks it's a government takeover, meanwhile you fucking bailed out the bankers lolololol. God damn Obama trying to help the poor, poor bankers though. Let's not hold them responsible, let's bail them out, let's give them record profits, let's not complain when we are born into a rigged game for the rich, equal oppurtunity is a farce, upward mobility is based on relation, the rich stay rich, protect their own just like everyone else.
They didn't work harder, Donald Trump is a shining example of this, fucking moron who rapes others to get where he wants.
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HAHAHAHAHAH!!
Oh yeah. It's so much better now.
Obamatheclown reports that 6 million are covered now by crapcare. When in reality most of those people are being put into medicare and qualified for it even under the old rules. And all the other haven't EVEN PAID FOR COVERAGE. You don't have coverage until you pay.
Out of the 7 million that have lost coverage only 1/3 have obtained coverage via crapcare albeit at higher premiums, higher deductibles, losing their doctor and hospital. And the other 2/3 are to be covered by those crappy policies for another 2 years. That's if the states they are in decide to go along with the delay.
They will clearly fail at obtaining 7 million people covered by crapcare by March. Covered by crapcare approved policies, NOT MEDICARE. The white house is using the medicare enrollees to inflate the actual figures.
It is so bad right now.
Yet, these libtards will paint a picture of success. Liberalism is a mental disease.
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I think you are the only person mentioning the groaning 'greater good' of utilitarianism. And how you tie gay marriage to all this is a mystery for the ages.
that's all liberals care about. if Republicans changed their tune on gay marriage and abortion the Democratic party would disappear in a matter of weeks. if you don't believe that, you haven't been paying attention.
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when we are born into a rigged game for the rich, equal oppurtunity is a farce, upward mobility is based on relation, the rich stay rich, protect their own just like everyone else.
They didn't work harder, Donald Trump is a shining example of this, fucking moron who rapes others to get where he wants.
the game is not rigged for the rich, where do you get this stupidity?
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/06/22/u-s-has-record-number-of-millionaires/
guess what they werent born rich...
Do you think they shouldnt be able to pass down their earnings to their children?
Everyone has the same set of opportunities, others have more b/c of their parents, friends etc...THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT OTHER PEOPLE DONT HAVE OPPORTUNITIES!!!
The amount of space envious and misguided thoughts about how you were dealt a bad hand take up in your head. Imagine if you used that energy to actually accomplish something in your life....MAYBE YOUD HAVE SOMETHING TO LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN
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the game is not rigged for the rich, where do you get this stupidity?
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/06/22/u-s-has-record-number-of-millionaires/
guess what they werent born rich...
Do you think they shouldnt be able to pass down their earnings to their children?
Everyone has the same set of opportunities, others have more b/c of their parents, friends etc...THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT OTHER PEOPLE DONT HAVE OPPORTUNITIES!!!
The amount of space envious and misguided thoughts about how you were dealt a bad hand take up in your head. Imagine if you used that energy to actually accomplish something in your life....MAYBE YOUD HAVE SOMETHING TO LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN
Hhaha your link proves my fucking point you incredible idiot. The rich as getting richer ie more millionaires, while the poor are stagnant or decreasing. TAX rates on corps are effectively zero, GE paid no TAXES, NONE. is that fair?
How about the fact to get an education now a days is life signing a death warrant of life long debt. The rich are richer then ever, the income gap has widened to the biggest in history, the top 3% of the world hold as much welath as the rest.
Are you really that stupid? do you honestly think they are serving their own best interests? tax havens? they are rigging the game? bail outs? not rigging? no tax rates on corps, capital gains etc.. the system benefits the rich, what more evidence do you need. Do you need an even larger income gap?more tax cheating, bailouts all on your back? record profits during a recession, biggest bonus in history was given out during the bailout LOLOLO.
Nah dude if everyone just works hard enough you will get into their club. If you work hard enough they will step aside not try and hinder you, no that wouldn't make any sense.
Trickle down so more huh? how is that working out for ya? how is that middle class doing? where are all the jobs? why are wages lower then ever when adjusted for inflation surely if they create jobs and are setting record profits more jobs etc should be available right? wrong, they are decreasing, you know where the money goes homo? into their pockets, why the fuck would they help you?
Show me evidence that the rich aren't doing better then ever while the poor hare doing worse. If you are right then this unemployment, increase in poverty is all related to hard work. All these people just gave up putting the effort it, I doubt they were disillusioned by ever decreasing prospects with ever increasing money/education required to obtain them.
You are a moron, you have shown this over and over, you think you can make a bell curve with two points quote psychologists incorrectly, can't critically appraise things without your own raging bias. Just quit life and keep drinking, keep working hard bro you will become a millionaire, you bought in.
Millionaires aren't the elite either, you know those unchanging billionaire families. Millionaires are made by the fucking lottery, the data is useless as it tells us there are more millionaires, your conclusion is spurious at best and retarded at it's worst.
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Hhaha your link proves my fucking point you incredible idiot. The rich as getting richer ie more millionaires, while the poor are stagnant or decreasing. TAX rates on corps are effectively zero, GE paid no TAXES, NONE. is that fair?
How about the fact to get an education now a days is life signing a death warrant of life long debt. The rich are richer then ever, the income gap has widened to the biggest in history, the top 3% of the world hold as much welath as the rest.
Are you really that stupid? do you honestly think they are serving their own best interests? tax havens? they are rigging the game? bail outs? not rigging? no tax rates on corps, capital gains etc.. the system benefits the rich, what more evidence do you need. Do you need an even larger income gap?more tax cheating, bailouts all on your back? record profits during a recession, biggest bonus in history was given out during the bailout LOLOLO.
Nah dude if everyone just works hard enough you will get into their club. If you work hard enough they will step aside not try and hinder you, no that wouldn't make any sense.
Trickle down so more huh? how is that working out for ya? how is that middle class doing? where are all the jobs? why are wages lower then ever when adjusted for inflation surely if they create jobs and are setting record profits more jobs etc should be available right? wrong, they are decreasing, you know where the money goes homo? into their pockets, why the fuck would they help you?
Show me evidence that the rich aren't doing better then ever while the poor hare doing worse. If you are right then this unemployment, increase in poverty is all related to hard work. All these people just gave up putting the effort it, I doubt they were disillusioned by ever decreasing prospects with ever increasing money/education required to obtain them.
You are a moron, you have shown this over and over, you think you can make a bell curve with two points quote psychologists incorrectly, can't critically appraise things without your own raging bias. Just quit life and keep drinking, keep working hard bro you will become a millionaire, you bought in.
Millionaires aren't the elite either, you know those unchanging billionaire families. Millionaires are made by the fucking lottery, the data is useless as it tells us there are more millionaires, your conclusion is spurious at best and retarded at it's worst.
you don't understand tax. its not your fault though. barely anyone does. this is a silly statement. if you want me to elaborate let me know but it takes a few paragraphs and I won't start wasting my time unless you're actually interested in hearing why what you just said doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Hhaha your link proves my fucking point you incredible idiot. The rich as getting richer ie more millionaires, while the poor are stagnant or decreasing. TAX rates on corps are effectively zero, GE paid no TAXES, NONE. is that fair?
How about the fact to get an education now a days is life signing a death warrant of life long debt. The rich are richer then ever, the income gap has widened to the biggest in history, the top 3% of the world hold as much welath as the rest.
Are you really that stupid? do you honestly think they are serving their own best interests? tax havens? they are rigging the game? bail outs? not rigging? no tax rates on corps, capital gains etc.. the system benefits the rich, what more evidence do you need. Do you need an even larger income gap?more tax cheating, bailouts all on your back? record profits during a recession, biggest bonus in history was given out during the bailout LOLOLO.
Nah dude if everyone just works hard enough you will get into their club. If you work hard enough they will step aside not try and hinder you, no that wouldn't make any sense.
Trickle down so more huh? how is that working out for ya? how is that middle class doing? where are all the jobs? why are wages lower then ever when adjusted for inflation surely if they create jobs and are setting record profits more jobs etc should be available right? wrong, they are decreasing, you know where the money goes homo? into their pockets, why the fuck would they help you?
Show me evidence that the rich aren't doing better then ever while the poor hare doing worse. If you are right then this unemployment, increase in poverty is all related to hard work. All these people just gave up putting the effort it, I doubt they were disillusioned by ever decreasing prospects with ever increasing money/education required to obtain them.
You are a moron, you have shown this over and over, you think you can make a bell curve with two points quote psychologists incorrectly, can't critically appraise things without your own raging bias. Just quit life and keep drinking, keep working hard bro you will become a millionaire, you bought in.
Millionaires aren't the elite either, you know those unchanging billionaire families. Millionaires are made by the fucking lottery, the data is useless as it tells us there are more millionaires, your conclusion is spurious at best and retarded at it's worst.
I have a better idea. you tell me why you think GE paid no tax. and don't say "tax loopholes" unless you want to cite the section of the IRC that they took advantage of in order to pay no tax.
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Hhaha your link proves my fucking point you incredible idiot. The rich as getting richer ie more millionaires, while the poor are stagnant or decreasing. TAX rates on corps are effectively zero, GE paid no TAXES, NONE. is that fair?
How about the fact to get an education now a days is life signing a death warrant of life long debt. The rich are richer then ever, the income gap has widened to the biggest in history, the top 3% of the world hold as much welath as the rest.
Are you really that stupid? do you honestly think they are serving their own best interests? tax havens? they are rigging the game? bail outs? not rigging? no tax rates on corps, capital gains etc.. the system benefits the rich, what more evidence do you need. Do you need an even larger income gap?more tax cheating, bailouts all on your back? record profits during a recession, biggest bonus in history was given out during the bailout LOLOLO.
Nah dude if everyone just works hard enough you will get into their club. If you work hard enough they will step aside not try and hinder you, no that wouldn't make any sense.
Trickle down so more huh? how is that working out for ya? how is that middle class doing? where are all the jobs? why are wages lower then ever when adjusted for inflation surely if they create jobs and are setting record profits more jobs etc should be available right? wrong, they are decreasing, you know where the money goes homo? into their pockets, why the fuck would they help you?
Show me evidence that the rich aren't doing better then ever while the poor hare doing worse. If you are right then this unemployment, increase in poverty is all related to hard work. All these people just gave up putting the effort it, I doubt they were disillusioned by ever decreasing prospects with ever increasing money/education required to obtain them.
You are a moron, you have shown this over and over, you think you can make a bell curve with two points quote psychologists incorrectly, can't critically appraise things without your own raging bias. Just quit life and keep drinking, keep working hard bro you will become a millionaire, you bought in.
Millionaires aren't the elite either, you know those unchanging billionaire families. Millionaires are made by the fucking lottery, the data is useless as it tells us there are more millionaires, your conclusion is spurious at best and retarded at it's worst.
HAHAH typical libtard when proved wrong resulting to a wall O text attacking the messegner.
Let me address this stupidity in pieces as there is to much to address all at once.
The corporate tax I will not spend much time on except to say I agree that business should not be allowed so many tax loopholes but when the alternative is 40% combined federal and state taxes a middle ground needs to be found. SIGNIFICANTLY lower the tax rates and get rid of the loop holes.
Education isnt signing your life into debt, if you sit on your ass and only work in the summer then yea you put yourself in a hole....let me repeat that, YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A HOLE...
If in addition if you major in some irrelevant and unmarketable major like philosophy or history you dig that hole deeper.
Are you seriously stupid enough to believe that GE paid no taxes? no payroll, no local, no state taxes?
Are you seriously stupid enough to believe that there are not cap gain taxes?
The system doesnt benefit the rich the rich benefit themselves...do you really think that people who worked hard shouldnt be able to use that money to better themselves and their families?
Do you think private schools should be abolished b/c poor people cant afford them? I mean thats an advantage isnt it?
PS class mobility is the same it was in the 70's it isnt any harder to get from middle to upper class today than it was 40 years ago.
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I swear... only Americans think they have freedom of choice.......
blind as fuck
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Trickle down so more huh? how is that working out for ya? how is that middle class doing? where are all the jobs? why are wages lower then ever when adjusted for inflation surely if they create jobs and are setting record profits more jobs etc should be available right? wrong, they are decreasing, you know where the money goes homo? into their pockets, why the fuck would they help you?
Show me evidence that the rich aren't doing better then ever while the poor hare doing worse. If you are right then this unemployment, increase in poverty is all related to hard work. All these people just gave up putting the effort it, I doubt they were disillusioned by ever decreasing prospects with ever increasing money/education required to obtain them.
You are a moron, you have shown this over and over, you think you can make a bell curve with two points quote psychologists incorrectly, can't critically appraise things without your own raging bias. Just quit life and keep drinking, keep working hard bro you will become a millionaire, you bought in.
Millionaires aren't the elite either, you know those unchanging billionaire families. Millionaires are made by the fucking lottery, the data is useless as it tells us there are more millionaires, your conclusion is spurious at best and retarded at it's worst.
who said anything about trickle down?
Thats youre fucking problem you expect to be able to sit on your ass and be handed shit, GO FUCKING GET IT.
Dont sit there and wait for others to give it to you, go make it yourself.
Upward mobility has not changed, you have the same ability to move up the economic class ladder today as you did decades ago.
There are MILLIONS of good job openings in the US, the problem is the US workers dont have the skills and education to match the employers needs. AGAIN DONT SIT THERE AND EXPECT TO BE HANDED SHIT.
I will be a millionaire at some point in my life sooner than later hopefully but it will be b/c i worked hard, made smart decisions and didnt sit there and expect to be handed shit.
Millionaires are made through smart living and consistent hard work there brainchild. Billionaire families generally are not made in one generation but over the course of many...everything has to start somewhere. My children God willing will do better than me and their children better than them and so on and so on.
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Serious question necrosis: do you think that a persons success should not be used to better their children?
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HAHAH typical libtard when proved wrong resulting to a wall O text attacking the messegner.
Let me address this stupidity in pieces as there is to much to address all at once.
The corporate tax I will not spend much time on except to say I agree that business should not be allowed so many tax loopholes but when the alternative is 40% combined federal and state taxes a middle ground needs to be found. SIGNIFICANTLY lower the tax rates and get rid of the loop holes.
Education isnt signing your life into debt, if you sit on your ass and only work in the summer then yea you put yourself in a hole....let me repeat that, YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A HOLE...
If in addition if you major in some irrelevant and unmarketable major like philosophy or history you dig that hole deeper.
Are you seriously stupid enough to believe that GE paid no taxes? no payroll, no local, no state taxes?
Are you seriously stupid enough to believe that there are not cap gain taxes?
The system doesnt benefit the rich the rich benefit themselves...do you really think that people who worked hard shouldnt be able to use that money to better themselves and their families?
Do you think private schools should be abolished b/c poor people cant afford them? I mean thats an advantage isnt it?
PS class mobility is the same it was in the 70's it isnt any harder to get from middle to upper class today than it was 40 years ago.
the top 10% pay roughly 90-95% of all income tax revenue in the US. that's a fact a lot of liberals just fucking love to ignore. when a corporation pays no tax that could mean a whole lot of things. trust me you guys. the IRS gets their money from these guys. and as a tax accountant. to hear non tax people say "tax loophole" infuriates us to no end. please.......PLEASE..... ..PLEASE tell me which tax loophole that you take issue with and we can discuss it like two intelligent people. loopholes do exist. there are not very many anymore. 99% of the time when someone says a corporation paid no tax because of a tax loophole and they don't go into detail about which section of the IRC that the corporation took advantage of, they have no idea what they're talking about and if you look into the tax situation at hand they're usually completely wrong.
a perfect example is facebook. when a bunch of 2nd rate liberal editorialists with no knowledge of tax wrote about Facebook paying no taxes because of a "tax loophole". what they fail to mention was Zuckerburg's tax return that same year. It was smoke and mirror journalism intentionally meant to prey on uninformed readers to and to intentionally spread misinformation. it was pathetic. I've heard that most tax professors use the Facebook case as their introductory story on why you can't trust newspapers to teach you about tax law. I would.
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HAHAHAHAHAH!!
Oh yeah. It's so much better now.
Obamatheclown reports that 6 million are covered now by crapcare. When in reality most of those people are being put into medicare and qualified for it even under the old rules. And all the other haven't EVEN PAID FOR COVERAGE. You don't have coverage until you pay.
Out of the 7 million that have lost coverage only 1/3 have obtained coverage via crapcare albeit at higher premiums, higher deductibles, losing their doctor and hospital. And the other 2/3 are to be covered by those crappy policies for another 2 years. That's if the states they are in decide to go along with the delay.
They will clearly fail at obtaining 7 million people covered by crapcare by March. Covered by crapcare approved policies, NOT MEDICARE. The white house is using the medicare enrollees to inflate the actual figures.
It is so bad right now.
Yet, these libtards will paint a picture of success. Liberalism is a mental disease.
You are quite a bitter person. Are you suggesting that the 13 million + people with cancer alone are better off before the ACA? The ACA permits these people to get insurance. It's projected that 41% of people will develop cancer in the US. 40+ americans have no insurance pre-ACA. Many of those people will develop cancer. Without the ACA, they are screwed.
Can you admit the ACA's removal of pre-existing conditions as a bar to coverage is a good thing?
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You are quite a bitter person. Are you suggesting that the 13 million + people with cancer alone are better off before the ACA? The ACA permits these people to get insurance. It's projected that 41% of people will develop cancer in the US. 40+ americans have no insurance pre-ACA. Many of those people will develop cancer. Without the ACA, they are screwed.
Can you admit the ACA's removal of pre-existing conditions as a bar to coverage is a good thing?
that was available without the other shit show measures that obamacare put in place.
The idea that we as a country are better off now than before is just fucking assinine and intellectually dishonest.
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the game is not rigged for the rich, where do you get this stupidity?
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/06/22/u-s-has-record-number-of-millionaires/
guess what they werent born rich...
Do you think they shouldnt be able to pass down their earnings to their children?
Everyone has the same set of opportunities, others have more b/c of their parents, friends etc...THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT OTHER PEOPLE DONT HAVE OPPORTUNITIES!!!
The amount of space envious and misguided thoughts about how you were dealt a bad hand take up in your head. Imagine if you used that energy to actually accomplish something in your life....MAYBE YOUD HAVE SOMETHING TO LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN
About half of the new millionaires work for it, the other half inherit it. A timeworn rationale for taxation is to counter the accumulation of capital to the extent that we have a new Bourgeois / noble class. We don't want an entire segment of society composed of Paris Hiltons.
"...[P]olitics is the shadow cast by big business." (Dewey) The system is rigged in favor of the moneyed elites. There's no two ways around that.
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About half of the new millionaires work for it, the other half inherit it. A timeworn rationale for taxation is to counter the accumulation of capital to the extent that we have a new Bourgeois / noble class. We don't want an entire segment of society composed of Paris Hiltons.
"...[P]olitics is the shadow cast by big business." (Dewey) The system is rigged in favor of the moneyed elites. There's no two ways around that.
please cite your source for half inherit it
LMFAO I think you like most ignorant libtards misconstrue the facts. The system is not rigged one way or the other.
Is it rigging the system for a wealthy person to hire a tutor for their kid?
How about to send them to a private school?
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please cite your source for half inherit it
LMFAO I think you like most ignorant libtards misconstrue the facts. The system is not rigged one way or the other.
Is it rigging the system for a wealthy person to hire a tutor for their kid?
How about to send them to a private school?
You're just acting out your authoritarian impulses. You can't really help it, can you?
About 1/3 of new millionaires inherit their fortune and that number reaches about half(less than) for trust fund kids who receive their dollars via family even though the parents aren't dead yet. It's called a living inheritance.
So take breath and drawback because the majority of new millionaires still earn it through various criminal enterprises and hard work.
You are such a bitter person. The rage you consume and exude is something to behold. Textbook narcissist authoritarian personality.
The system is rigged: family connections, nepotism, money buys privilege and a head start for the privileged.
This is a class based society. The rich are not like you or me. You spend a vast amount of your time trumpeting rightwing nonsense fed to you by think tanks funded by the people that own you, that own your market, your politicians and your country. You work for them. Don't ever forget that.
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You're just acting out your authoritarian impulses. You can't really help it, can you?
About 1/3 of new millionaires inherit their fortune and that number reaches about half(less than) for trust fund kids who receive their dollars via family even though the parents aren't dead yet. It's called a living inheritance.
So take breath and drawback because the majority of new millionaires still earn it through various criminal enterprises and hard work.
You are such a bitter person. The rage you consume and exude is something to behold. Textbook narcissist authoritarian personality.
The system is rigged: family connections, nepotism, money buys privilege and a head start for the privileged.
This is a class based society. The rich are not like you or me. You spend a vast amount of your time trumpeting rightwing nonsense fed to you by think tanks funded by the people that own you, that own your market, your politicians and your country. You work for them. Don't ever forget that.
so it was 50% now its 33% and you still have no citation for your claim?
then you resort to attacking me and saying I am consumed by rage.
It must really bother you that I a person born middle class will become a millionaire through hard work and you a lazy gimmick on a message board will continue to blame people like me for your short comings.
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that was available without the other shit show measures that obamacare put in place.
The idea that we as a country are better off now than before is just fucking assinine and intellectually dishonest.
No it wasn't. If you had insurance and developed cancer and a 'death panel' decided on whether your coverage would apply, that was the best thing available under the old regime. IF you had no coverage like 45 million americans and developed cancer, private insurers can and did deny your coverage on the basis of a pre-existing condition.
So no, that was not "available without the other shit show measures that obamacare put in place." In other words, you're flat out wrong.
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No it wasn't. If you had insurance and developed cancer and a 'death panel' decided on whether your coverage would apply, that was the best thing available under the old regime. IF you had no coverage like 45 million americans and developed cancer, private insurers can and did deny your coverage on the basis of a pre-existing condition.
So no, that was not "available without the other shit show measures that obamacare put in place." In other words, you're flat out wrong.
actually the reps were willing to pass the no pre existing conditions clause seperately so yes it was available without the rest of the shit show.
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so it was 50% now its 33% and you still have no citation for your claim?
then you resort to attacking me and saying I am consumed by rage.
It must really bother you that I a person born middle class will become a millionaire through hard work and you a lazy gimmick on a message board will continue to blame people like me for your short comings.
All I've seen from you is your badmouthing anyone disagreeing with your childish statements. You cite nothing. You just state things. So welcome to the party big guy.
1/3 is inheritance and the balance taking that number to a little less than 50% is living inheritance--steady income from rich parents. But you didn't read that the first time and you probably won't read it the second time. You can't help it. That's how you are.
Where's your citation for your assertion? I know where mine is. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is for once in your life and show me something? Come on. You're smart.
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actually the reps were willing to pass the no pre existing conditions clause seperately so yes it was available without the rest of the shit show.
Sure they were. And the democrats shut down the federal government. Results are results and talk is talk.
Ron Paul has proposed hundreds of pieces of legislation over his 30+ years sucking at the gov. teat. And he's passed what, 3 pieces over that time? Results.
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All I've seen from you is your badmouthing anyone disagreeing with your childish statements. You cite nothing. You just state things. So welcome to the party big guy.
1/3 is inheritance and the balance taking that number to a little less than 50% is living inheritance--steady income from rich parents. But you didn't read that the first time and you probably won't read it the second time. You can't help it. That's how you are.
Where's your citation for your assertion? I know where mine is. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is for once in your life and show me something? Come on. You're smart.
saying it doesnt make it true..
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_110333.html
7 myths about millionaires:
2. Millionaires Just Inherited Their Money
According to Thomas J. Stanley's book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," only 20% of millionaires inherited their riches. The other 80% are what you'd call nouveau riche: first-generation millionaires who earned their cash on their own. Many millionaires simply worked, saved, and lived within their means to generate their wealth -- think accountants and managers: regular people going to work every day. Most millionaires didn't get their riches overnight when a rich relative died -- they worked for the money.
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Sure they were. And the democrats shut down the federal government. Results are results and talk is talk.
Ron Paul has proposed hundreds of pieces of legislation over his 30+ years sucking at the gov. teat. And he's passed what, 3 pieces over that time? Results.
results like higher premiums and deductibles?
results like people getting kicked off their plans even though the were told they could keep them if they want?
results like people losing their doctors even though they were told they could keep them?
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Is it rigging the system for a wealthy person to hire a tutor for their kid?
How about to send them to a private school?
please answer these question
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I am paying 1300 more a year
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HAHAH typical libtard when proved wrong resulting to a wall O text attacking the messegner.
Let me address this stupidity in pieces as there is to much to address all at once.
The corporate tax I will not spend much time on except to say I agree that business should not be allowed so many tax loopholes but when the alternative is 40% combined federal and state taxes a middle ground needs to be found. SIGNIFICANTLY lower the tax rates and get rid of the loop holes.
Education isnt signing your life into debt, if you sit on your ass and only work in the summer then yea you put yourself in a hole....let me repeat that, YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A HOLE...
If in addition if you major in some irrelevant and unmarketable major like philosophy or history you dig that hole deeper.
Are you seriously stupid enough to believe that GE paid no taxes? no payroll, no local, no state taxes?
Are you seriously stupid enough to believe that there are not cap gain taxes?
The system doesnt benefit the rich the rich benefit themselves...do you really think that people who worked hard shouldnt be able to use that money to better themselves and their families?
Do you think private schools should be abolished b/c poor people cant afford them? I mean thats an advantage isnt it?
PS class mobility is the same it was in the 70's it isnt any harder to get from middle to upper class today than it was 40 years ago.
Dude are you legit with the education thing?what do you have a fucking bachelors, I was talking real education moron, like PHD's, Doctorates, academia, professors etc.. you think a doctor can work in the summers you imbecile? the same fucking education costs 5x more then it use to, no fucking rationale why, did information become more expensive or are you unaware of the money schools are swimming in? Do you know how much debt a Dr goes into?
Ah.. this is my last response to you as you are borderline retarded, for real, legit real retard. You compare a private school to a public school as if that has any relation to debt required to receive an education. Did you think I was talking about kindergarden? toddlers going into debt? university is never fucking PUBLIC MORON, it's not an option, it's not a right, education is, that's why it's PUBLICLY offered, the option is there for private for the rich, unlike university and other forms of higher education.
Do you understand now tomy? do you understand that you don't know what you don't know. Your IQ limits you, I feel bad for you, you really thought you made an argument and you couldn't even see how stupid it was, something as retarded as you typed never enters my mind. It must be hard to think straight with extraneous intrusive retard thoughts with no impulse control to filter the stupid. The stupid spews forth, things like two point curves are created, things that are so retarded no reasonable individual would suggest them, yet this is your best. Your absolute best tamy.
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saying it doesnt make it true..
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_110333.html
7 myths about millionaires:
2. Millionaires Just Inherited Their Money
According to Thomas J. Stanley's book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," only 20% of millionaires inherited their riches. The other 80% are what you'd call nouveau riche: first-generation millionaires who earned their cash on their own. Many millionaires simply worked, saved, and lived within their means to generate their wealth -- think accountants and managers: regular people going to work every day. Most millionaires didn't get their riches overnight when a rich relative died -- they worked for the money.
Well I guess I'd better pack it in. You're right and I'm....hahahaha I can't even fake that.
I ask for proof and you give me a piece of history from '96 based on interviews with professed 'self-made' men with 'how to' tips.
No, the correct answer, is we don't really know the answer definitively because the matter is more complex than the puff piece you dished up. The 80/20 split is nonsense. For Christ's sake, Mitt Romney thinks he's a 'self made' man. "Just ask your parents for seed money to start that new business.."
Sen. Ron Johnson was poor but he married the Boss's daughter and became a millionaire by virtue of that happy circumstance. Is he selfmade in the sense of productive effort? I guess so if that means wrangling to bang the boss's daughter and marry her.
The point is, there is no definitive answer. I include inheritance and living inheritance which is nothing more than the old seed money advice of Mitt Romney, i.e., help from your family. If a guy inherits a business from his dad valued at half a million and it grows to net him a million, is he truly self made? I don't know.
Here's what I look at. Here's a hint, it has to do with economic mobility (which is damn near dead in the US) which sort of puts paid any notion of self-made millionaires on any sort of meaningful scale--Bill Gates or Bust, nepotism, governmental incentives, contribution of labor, intelligence and luck. Ed Wolff does some good work in this area.
A recent Barclay's survey found that only 21% of millionaire respondents attributed their new wealth to the sale of their enterprise or profits. What the hell do you make of that? It's certainly at odds with the 80/20 survey.
Anyways, what I take from this is that the opportunity to create wealth is the defining factor and that is what is so hard to pin down. There's no doubt that money makes money and coming from money creates whole lot of opportunity, better schools, insider connections / information, better gov. expenditures aiding upper class mobility into the realm of the rich (to the tune of $746 billion of federal assistance (takes many forms)).
So that's my answer. I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that if you're born with rich parents, Horatio Alger is not your story.
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please answer these question
Those are distinct advantages not available to the poor. A better choice of rigging is Bush style economics. Bush made his fortune through his old man's connections. He's no more of a self made man than JFK was. But that's how money operates.
How about Cheney enriching himself through munitions assets and having two illegal wars to make those stocks grow, grow, grow?
Connections speak louder than words. That's a rigging as sure as nepotism and the old Romney family loan for a startup business.
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Government takeover? Takeover of what? The government owns no insurance company. The private big insurers that have been screwing you sideways for years with $5,000 deductibles still own the show.
No, the ACA is not good law. But it is better than what was.
But yet if the insurance pools end up lopsided, guess who gets bailed out. Insurance companies. Pretty nifty huh?
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Dude are you legit with the education thing?what do you have a fucking bachelors, I was talking real education moron, like PHD's, Doctorates, academia, professors etc.. you think a doctor can work in the summers you imbecile? the same fucking education costs 5x more then it use to, no fucking rationale why, did information become more expensive or are you unaware of the money schools are swimming in? Do you know how much debt a Dr goes into?
Ah.. this is my last response to you as you are borderline retarded, for real, legit real retard. You compare a private school to a public school as if that has any relation to debt required to receive an education. Did you think I was talking about kindergarden? toddlers going into debt? university is never fucking PUBLIC MORON, it's not an option, it's not a right, education is, that's why it's PUBLICLY offered, the option is there for private for the rich, unlike university and other forms of higher education.
Do you understand now tomy? do you understand that you don't know what you don't know. Your IQ limits you, I feel bad for you, you really thought you made an argument and you couldn't even see how stupid it was, something as retarded as you typed never enters my mind. It must be hard to think straight with extraneous intrusive retard thoughts with no impulse control to filter the stupid. The stupid spews forth, things like two point curves are created, things that are so retarded no reasonable individual would suggest them, yet this is your best. Your absolute best tamy.
try two bachelors and a masters moron, sorry dumb ass if you are smart about it and work while you go to school it doesnt have to be a drag on the rest of your life.
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Well I guess I'd better pack it in. You're right and I'm....hahahaha I can't even fake that.
I ask for proof and you give me a piece of history from '96 based on interviews with professed 'self-made' men with 'how to' tips.
No, the correct answer, is we don't really know the answer definitively because the matter is more complex than the puff piece you dished up. The 80/20 split is nonsense. For Christ's sake, Mitt Romney thinks he's a 'self made' man. "Just ask your parents for seed money to start that new business.."
Sen. Ron Johnson was poor but he married the Boss's daughter and became a millionaire by virtue of that happy circumstance. Is he selfmade in the sense of productive effort? I guess so if that means wrangling to bang the boss's daughter and marry her.
The point is, there is no definitive answer. I include inheritance and living inheritance which is nothing more than the old seed money advice of Mitt Romney, i.e., help from your family. If a guy inherits a business from his dad valued at half a million and it grows to net him a million, is he truly self made? I don't know.
Here's what I look at. Here's a hint, it has to do with economic mobility (which is damn near dead in the US) which sort of puts paid any notion of self-made millionaires on any sort of meaningful scale--Bill Gates or Bust, nepotism, governmental incentives, contribution of labor, intelligence and luck. Ed Wolff does some good work in this area.
A recent Barclay's survey found that only 21% of millionaire respondents attributed their new wealth to the sale of their enterprise or profits. What the hell do you make of that? It's certainly at odds with the 80/20 survey.
Anyways, what I take from this is that the opportunity to create wealth is the defining factor and that is what is so hard to pin down. There's no doubt that money makes money and coming from money creates whole lot of opportunity, better schools, insider connections / information, better gov. expenditures aiding upper class mobility into the realm of the rich (to the tune of $746 billion of federal assistance (takes many forms)).
So that's my answer. I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that if you're born with rich parents, Horatio Alger is not your story.
so you ridicule my citation and still do not give one of your own...then you attack me while not refuting any of the points made against or validating your unproven points.
youre the dumbest gimmick this board has seen since blacken
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So that's my answer. I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that if you're born with rich parents, Horatio Alger is not your story.
well I have to give you some credit...
After the wall of text to deflect you finally admit you dont know what youre talking about and all your views are opinion based and YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK THEM UP
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A recent Barclay's survey found that only 21% of millionaire respondents attributed their new wealth to the sale of their enterprise or profits. What the hell do you make of that? It's certainly at odds with the 80/20 survey.
Actually you moronic dumb ass it fits pretty fucking perfectly into what I posted.
saying it doesnt make it true..
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_110333.html
7 myths about millionaires:
2. Millionaires Just Inherited Their Money
According to Thomas J. Stanley's book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," only 20% of millionaires inherited their riches. The other 80% are what you'd call nouveau riche: first-generation millionaires who earned their cash on their own. Many millionaires simply worked, saved, and lived within their means to generate their wealth -- think accountants and managers: regular people going to work every day. Most millionaires didn't get their riches overnight when a rich relative died -- they worked for the money.
I FUCKING E people who lived within their means and were smart with their money...
where the fuck does your dumb ass get 80% are people who sold their business?
for shits sake your a fucking horrible gimmick
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so you ridicule my citation and still do not give one of your own...then you attack me while not refuting any of the points made against or validating your unproven points.
You say you look at while not giving any proof of numbers or citing any back up for your ideas.
youre the dumbest gimmick this board has seen since blacken
Your citation is garbage. Tell me, how can you even accurately measure inheritance when inheritance by will bypasses probate meaning there is no public record of the transfer? We're left with guys like Romney (and yourself) deluded into believing they are self-made.
You and your citation are inadequate. There, you and your source have been discredited, are you happy now?
Plus you missed my Barclays citation countering your 80 / 20 nonsense.
What do I expect? You want to believe that there's terrific income mobility and many Horatio Alger self-made millionaire stories b/c it fits your...'prejudice' doesn't do you justice...it doesn't fit your fantasy.
Authoritarian point number 2 million and 2: When presented with counter-arguments, the authoritarian fanatic lashes out claiming victimization while attacking and insulting in retreat.
I think this necrosis fellow has you pegged perfectly.
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try two bachelors and a masters moron, sorry dumb ass if you are smart about it and work while you go to school it doesnt have to be a drag on the rest of your life.
What's the University of Phoenix like?
On the level, your ejaculations on this board indicate two dimensional immature thinking.
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Your citation is garbage. Tell me, how can you even accurately measure inheritance when inheritance by will bypasses probate meaning there is no public record of the transfer? We're left with guys like Romney (and yourself) deluded into believing they are self-made.
You and your citation are inadequate. There, you and your source have been discredited, are you happy now?
Plus you missed my Barclays citation countering your 80 / 20 nonsense.
What do I expect? You want to believe that there's terrific income mobility and many Horatio Alger self-made millionaire stories b/c it fits your...'prejudice' doesn't do you justice...it doesn't fit your fantasy.
Authoritarian point number 2 million and 2: When presented with counter-arguments, the authoritarian fanatic lashes out claiming victimization while attacking and insulting in retreat.
I think this necrosis fellow has you pegged perfectly.
LOL no I addressed your BC citation and it fits right in with my citation.
What's the University of Phoenix like?
On the level, your ejaculations on this board indicate two dimensional immature thinking.
HAHHA 2 public universities for undergrad and a private for grad school, whats your background gimmick?
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well I have to give you some credit...
After the wall of text to deflect you finally admit you dont know what youre talking about and all your views are opinion based and YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK THEM UP
I have a survey from Barclays to support my contention, just like you. But you didn't even know that.
Plus I have the intelligence and integrity to understand the complexity of the matter at hand and I admit that there is no definitive answer...remember, inheritance by will leaves no public record?
In other words, I have integrity. I admit that and like a little child you pounce on that as some sort of capitulation to your asinine argument. You're a child. You don't belong in the company of thinking men.
Authoritarian trait #4: Dogmatic assertions and a complete inability to grasp the contours and complexities of an issue. Everything is black and white.
I swear that you were the model for the authoritarian psychological profile. You are practically screaming, "look at me and my herdlike cowardice!!!!"
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LOL no I addressed your BC citation and it fits right in with my citation.
HAHHA 2 public universities for undergrad and a private for grad school, whats your background gimmick?
Educated people do not make asses of themselves the way you do.
My degrees dwarf yours. But I'm here to discuss topics. You're here to do anything but that. Why don't you post another link you don't understand and call everyone names.
My cite contradicts yours. So what exactly are you talking about?
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LOL no I addressed your BC citation and it fits right in with my citation.
HAHHA 2 public universities for undergrad and a private for grad school, whats your background gimmick?
Your cite is meaningless. Inheritance descended by will leaves no record. It's all the word of guys like Romney who claim they are self-made. Ludicrous.
There is no reliable metric for that basis. Why don't you tell us again about the 80 / 20 split?
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here's a whole book that goes into the finer points of your misunderstanding.
http://books.google.com/books?id=AcSMK5dbQKUC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=%22self+made+millionaire%22+myth&source=bl&ots=ZYJrnhNZ_R&sig=OsDb2tQMwcpw663zE11W5OiCRKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SmcJU6WtMu--2AXgo4DwAQ&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCDgU#v=onepage&q=%22self%20made%20millionaire%22%20myth&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=AcSMK5dbQKUC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=%22self+made+millionaire%22+myth&source=bl&ots=ZYJrnhNZ_R&sig=OsDb2tQMwcpw663zE11W5OiCRKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SmcJU6WtMu--2AXgo4DwAQ&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCDgU#v=onepage&q=%22self%20made%20millionaire%22%20myth&f=false)
But if you stick to your profile, you'll just keep parroting your80 /20 link. That's how authoritarians work. You want to believe that each man is an island succeeding in a vacuum and you'll suck up and spit out anything that plays that meme. You'll do this with your next post.
I almost forge (edit) your proof is from 1996 and my proof is current. How does one have anything to do with the other? Couple that with the complete lack of basis for inherited wealth and you're just slinging bullshit.
I'm man enough to admit when we know that we don't know answer. Not you. Your authoritarian programming won't permit it.
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Look! Another survey that refutes your 80 / 20 conclusion:
http://millionairecorner.com/Content_Free/What-are-the-Wealth-Creation-Strategies-of-Millionaire-Millennials.aspx (http://millionairecorner.com/Content_Free/What-are-the-Wealth-Creation-Strategies-of-Millionaire-Millennials.aspx)
Unlike their predecessors, Millionaire Millennials are more apt to credit their education rather than hard work as their primary wealth creation factor,
Well I guess it does depend on whom you ask.
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try two bachelors and a masters moron, sorry dumb ass if you are smart about it and work while you go to school it doesnt have to be a drag on the rest of your life.
HAHA you just get raped and that's your response? you do not have an education, you didn't even know what a fucking bell curve was asshat. You just tried to equivocate basic education with post secondary education. You are a nimwit tomy.
No. so because it may still be possible to get an education without debt (the he stats don't show that) it doesn't bother you that the cost of education has skyrocketed? that jobs our parents had/have were fucking off the street but now you need 14 degrees to do, which are ever increasing in cost with ever decreasing oppurtunity.
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lol tony you got owned big time,this is the worst I've seen on this board :D :D it's about time you tell them you were a judo champ :D :D :D :D
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I am paying 1300 more a year
That sucks. My experience with ACA is neither good nor bad because my plan and what I pay for it didn't change a bit.
This guy, FWIW, had a pretty good experience:
I signed up for health insurance, told my GOP Congressman about it, and made the local news
...
My healthcare saga began in 2002. That’s the year that I left full-time employment and went into the cruel world on my own. No longer did I have a group plan selected by an employer. I had to shop for my own coverage. At first it was easy. When my COBRA coverage ended in 2003, I chose a $1,000-deductible plan that cost me about $210 per month. No big deal; I could easily afford it.
But each year the dreaded renewal letter arrived, and the premiums increased by leaps and bounds. In years when my age was divisible by 5, the increases were stunning in their scope. I could do the math. Before long, the premiums would be beyond my ability to pay.
I cheered when Obama was elected, and I cheered when Congress began to consider changes to our healthcare system. Then I watched in dismay as the debate wore on. Single payer was taken off the table, and the surviving proposals were watered down to suit the egos of various elected officials. The early provisions of the Affordable Care Act were of no help to me. Somehow, I needed to hold on until 2014. I didn’t make it that far.
In early 2011, I was paying $463 per month for a plan with a $2,600 deductible. In eight years’ time, my premiums had more than doubled, and so had my deductible. But the big shock was yet to come. When my renewal letter arrived, I was politely informed to begin remitting $756 instead of $463 – a staggering 63% increase. My health insurance was going to cost more than my house payment! That was my line in the sand. I had told myself that I would drop my insurance if it ever got that expensive.
Before letting go, I did two things. I went to my doctor for a thorough checkup, including a blood test. And I applied for a very-high-deductible plan that would keep my monthly payment in the $400 range. Given that I was still insured, the insurance folks got a copy of the blood test, which they proceeded to search line by line until they found something wrong with me. Out of two pages of data, there was a single thyroid reading was outside of “normal” range (side note: there’s nothing wrong with my thyroid; it was simply their excuse to make me pay that outrageous premium). They’d found their so-called preexisting condition, and denied me access to the new plan with the lower premium. With the help of my doctor, who wrote a letter on my behalf, I appealed.
I still remember where I was when I got the phone call. I had just driven across the country to do forestry work in the Pacific Northwest for three months. It was an utterly miserable July day on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington. Rain was coming down, and all the trees and underbrush were soaking wet. Water was making its way through and around my rain gear. I’m about ten miles from the nearest cell tower, and barely had a signal. My appeal had been denied, said the distant voice. My choice was to pay the $756 premium or do without insurance. I said, “Terminate the policy.”
I stood there in the rain, wondering whether I was a genius or an idiot. Only time would tell.
Fast forward to December 15, 2013. I’m at the healthcare.gov website, making my third attempt to log in. My first effort in early October, and my second try later that month, never got as far as obtaining a username. The same bizarre error message stopped me in my tracks both times. I had to settle for printing an application and mailing it to a center in Kentucky. Six weeks passed, and I heard nothing.
Now, with the deadline approaching, I was ready to try again. First, I browsed the plans. Only two insurance companies were offering plans on the exchange in this part of Georgia, but there are 18 total plans available. I selected a bronze plan offering coverage across state lines, since I travel so much.
With the plan chosen, I began the process of creating an account at healthcare.gov. As I progressed through the various steps, the system even located my paper application. Along the way, I was required to make several decisions. I was asked how much money I expect to earn in 2014. As an independent consultant, I can only guess. The earnings estimate is used to calculate your subsidy, but you are allowed to decrease the size of the subsidy you accept, in case your earnings turn out higher than expected. In my case, the subsidy was going to pay about two-thirds of my $570 monthly premium. I chose to err on the side of caution, selecting a $200 subsidy for a net cost of $370 per month. Once I made those decisions, I was set. In less than an hour, I had been approved for health insurance.
More at link:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/22/1264619/-I-signed-up-for-health-insurance-told-my-GOP-Congressman-about-it-and-made-the-local-news (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/22/1264619/-I-signed-up-for-health-insurance-told-my-GOP-Congressman-about-it-and-made-the-local-news)
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Lol. Yeah everyone loves free shit.
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I have a survey from Barclays to support my contention, just like you. But you didn't even know that.
Plus I have the intelligence and integrity to understand the complexity of the matter at hand and I admit that there is no definitive answer...remember, inheritance by will leaves no public record?
In other words, I have integrity. I admit that and like a little child you pounce on that as some sort of capitulation to your asinine argument. You're a child. You don't belong in the company of thinking men.
Authoritarian trait #4: Dogmatic assertions and a complete inability to grasp the contours and complexities of an issue. Everything is black and white.
I swear that you were the model for the authoritarian psychological profile. You are practically screaming, "look at me and my herdlike cowardice!!!!"
once again your BC citation doesnt back up your claim as a matter of fact it folds right into mine.
so 20% of millionaires get there by selling their business...that fits right into my citations assertion that the majority of millionaires get there by hard work and smart living.
LMFAO are you so blind you dont see that?
yours doesnt say anything about the overall number just the number that get there by selling their business.
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Educated people do not make asses of themselves the way you do.
My degrees dwarf yours. But I'm here to discuss topics. You're here to do anything but that. Why don't you post another link you don't understand and call everyone names.
My cite contradicts yours. So what exactly are you talking about?
hahaha Im sure your degrees do and I am sure you have a bodybuilding physique and are rich none of which you will ever prove or show....
again it actually doesnt and fits right in line with my citation
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this also doesnt say anything about the overall numbers, just the millenials....
are you so fucking stupid you dont understand that?
He won't answer you, so I will.
YES, HE IS THAT STUPID!!
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Look! Another survey that refutes your 80 / 20 conclusion:
http://millionairecorner.com/Content_Free/What-are-the-Wealth-Creation-Strategies-of-Millionaire-Millennials.aspx (http://millionairecorner.com/Content_Free/What-are-the-Wealth-Creation-Strategies-of-Millionaire-Millennials.aspx)
Unlike their predecessors, Millionaire Millennials are more apt to credit their education rather than hard work as their primary wealth creation factor,
Well I guess it does depend on whom you ask.
how does this refute the 80/20 split?
this says nothing to that end....
hahahah are you fuking serious?
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He won't answer you, so I will.
YES, HE IS THAT STUPID!!
I went back and actually read the link and his post and the his conclusion has absolutely nothing to do with that link.
LMFAO you cant make up such a shitty gimmick
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I went back and actually read the link and his post and the his conclusion has absolutely nothing to do with that link.
LMFAO you cant make up such a shitty gimmick
lol good idea come on and talk shit when the guy's not on the site :D that's one way not to get owned :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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hahaha Im sure your degrees do and I am sure you have a bodybuilding physique and are rich none of which you will ever prove or show....
again it actually doesnt and fits right in line with my citation
Tony, to be fair, irrespective of actual content, his writing on this board (compared to yours or mine) indicates that he has a higher level of education (related to writing and reasoning, anyway) than both of us.
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once again your BC citation doesnt back up your claim as a matter of fact it folds right into mine.
so 20% of millionaires get there by selling their business...that fits right into my citations assertion that the majority of millionaires get there by hard work and smart living.
LMFAO are you so blind you dont see that?
yours doesnt say anything about the overall number just the number that get there by selling their business.
Your survey is a survey. Not a factual exposition. As I pointed out there is no way to determine that b/c good estate planning bypasses probate. In other words we take the word of people like Mitt Romney that they built their own fortune instead of inheriting it either before or after the death of the giftor. Your citation is almost 20 years old. Mine is current. How does that 'fit right into your citation' when you are describing a different era than I am?
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hahaha Im sure your degrees do and I am sure you have a bodybuilding physique and are rich none of which you will ever prove or show....
again it actually doesnt and fits right in line with my citation
I'm out of shape currently. That's one of the reasons I'm here. But I"ve been lifting for many years in case you are wondering.
So you have two bachelors degrees, right? Is that hotel and restaurant management and private investigator with a masters in administrative assistant?
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how does this refute the 80/20 split?
this says nothing to that end....
hahahah are you fuking serious?
43% of the gen Y respondents admit that inherited wealth helped make them wealthy.
Do you see that now?
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I went back and actually read the link and his post and the his conclusion has absolutely nothing to do with that link.
LMFAO you cant make up such a shitty gimmick
43% Buddy. The survey is current puts your 1996 survey away. But I have a gift for you. I started a thread that delves into why you think in the manner you do. I'll even supplement that with another thread...just for you Tony Mc Tones.
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Tony, to be fair, irrespective of actual content, his writing on this board (compared to yours or mine) indicates that he has a higher level of education (related to writing and reasoning, anyway) than both of us.
That's very nice of you. I spend a lot of time writing stuff for technical sources and it shows. My style is not very good for boards like this. But you try anyways. That's the definition of real courage. Not like these guys like Tony and Dario. Their sort of courage is pathological and cowardly. I posted a new thread that identifies this mode of their personalities. Honestly, outside of their constant snottyness, I don't hate them. They are grating and they do that on purpose out their own fear to hurt as many people as they can. That's how they function.
To cliff note the thread I created: Guys like Tony and Dario are more scared of life in general than the average person and they lash out at others from a sense of delusional superiority. There's a lot more to it than that but this is a bodybuilding forum and not psychology today.
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what the fuck does any of this have to do with the subject of the original thread? yes rich people like to save their money and pass it down to their family. this is no different anywhere in the world. can we move on now please?
go ahead and tell us how successful Obamacare is going to be. it makes me feel better because for a few seconds here and there I actually believe you and it makes me feel good. because no one hopes Obamacare actually helps more than I do. I don't get how it could possibly work but I guess I still have hope that people far more intelligent than myself know something that I don't.
maybe my premiums won't increase by 46-50% when the mandates kick in.
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what the fuck does any of this have to do with the subject of the original thread? yes rich people like to save their money and pass it down to their family. this is no different anywhere in the world. can we move on now please?
That's absolutely not what Fred is talking about, is it AVXO? or Syntax I don't keep up. What many suggest is that the rules of the economy are rigged in favor of the rich. We are victims of covert feudalism which is germane to existence in any organized civilization. The problem is learned apathy and isolationism.
go ahead and tell us how successful Obamacare is going to be. it makes me feel better because for a few seconds here and there I actually believe you and it makes me feel good. because no one hopes Obamacare actually helps more than I do. I don't get how it could possibly work but I guess I still have hope that people far more intelligent than myself know something that I don't.
There we go, admit you know nothing of the law, try it, it's ok to be wrong or ignorant. I have poor grammar and lazy as all fuck when I write, it's ok.
maybe my premiums won't increase by 46-50% when the mandates kick in.
Maybe they will decrease, let's just guess for fun
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As stated, the ACA is not good law. Since most of the ACA's key elements have been operational for a month and some change and since open enrollment for the ACA still has about a month and a half for 2014, I'm a little bit leery of your cast iron negative projections.
But there are certainly good things about the law that you must admit: pre-existing conditions as a basis for denying coverage is gone. That alone is simply incredible. Ask people with cancer, type 2 diabetes, etc., etc., the value of that. What is it, some 14 million people have cancer in the US and 41% of the population is projected to get cancer at some point and become uninsurable under the prior regime.
Here's an even-handed list of the good things: http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2013/07/15/10-good-things-about-obamacare
The ACA is a market-based program for dealing with healthcare coverage. It was formulated by the Heritage Foundation (conservative / republican think-tank back in the 80s). Romney implemented a version of it when he was governor of MA.
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/heritage-foundation-invidual-mandate-2.jpg)
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/the-heritage-plan1.jpg)
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/heritage-foundation-invidual-mandate1.jpg)
There are good things in the ACA, as you have mentioned.
But the facts are it has increased premiums. Not for everyone yet, because not all of it has been implemented. Mine went up 68%. I know lots of other people who are self employed who have had their coverages increase more than that. The way i figure it, based on coveredca.gov, if you make over 45K per year you pay the full price which for a basic $2000.deduc health care is about $450/month. If you make less, it gets subsidized. If you make around 50K per year you are basically paying 10% of gross to HC. Where before it was about 5%.
We also have many stories of coverages being drastically altered, such as family plans getting dropped.
To call this the "Affordable Care Act" seems like a lie. It doesn't really address the cost over runs in our system.
Who really benefits who really doesn't with ACA?
Winners: People who can't afford health care, people with preexisting conditions, etc.
Losers: People who make more than 45K per hear, the tax payers because the government subsidizes those who don't make at least 45K per year
The Grand Champion Winner: The medical industry. They win in every category.
Thank you, elected representatives for looking out for the people.
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you're a cheerleader. nothing more. nothing less.
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There are good things in the ACA, as you have mentioned.
But the facts are it has increased premiums. Not for everyone yet, because not all of it has been implemented. Mine went up 68%. I know lots of other people who are self employed who have had their coverages increase more than that. The way i figure it, based on coveredca.gov, if you make over 45K per year you pay the full price which for a basic $2000.deduc health care is about $450/month. If you make less, it gets subsidized. If you make around 50K per year you are basically paying 10% of gross to HC. Where before it was about 5%.
We also have many stories of coverages being drastically altered, such as family plans getting dropped.
To call this the "Affordable Care Act" seems like a lie. It doesn't really address the cost over runs in our system.
Who really benefits who really doesn't with ACA?
Winners: People who can't afford health care, people with preexisting conditions, etc.
Losers: People who make more than 45K per hear, the tax payers because the government subsidizes those who don't make at least 45K per year
The Grand Champion Winner: The medical industry. They win in every category.
Thank you, elected representatives for looking out for the people.
none of them are interested in your real life real world facts. OK?
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so Necrosis, are you telling me that my premiums may decrease when the Obamacare mandates kick in? seriously dude. put down the fucking pom poms. you're embarrassing yourself.
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you're a cheerleader. nothing more. nothing less.
Sure if that makes you feel better about being raped and not even touching the post then fine. Also, I am pretty sure it's the first time I have ever quoted him. I am not even sure who he is dude lol.
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That's very nice of you. I spend a lot of time writing stuff for technical sources and it shows. My style is not very good for boards like this. But you try anyways. That's the definition of real courage. Not like these guys like Tony and Dario. Their sort of courage is pathological and cowardly. I posted a new thread that identifies this mode of their personalities. Honestly, outside of their constant snottyness, I don't hate them. They are grating and they do that on purpose out their own fear to hurt as many people as they can. That's how they function.
To cliff note the thread I created: Guys like Tony and Dario are more scared of life in general than the average person and they lash out at others from a sense of delusional superiority. There's a lot more to it than that but this is a bodybuilding forum and not psychology today.
textbook projection. I took psychology 101, barely went to class, got 5 hours of C on it and I recognize that.
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so Necrosis, are you telling me that my premiums may decrease when the Obamacare mandates kick in? seriously dude. put down the fucking pom poms. you're embarrassing yourself.
Strawman, i would never suggest something as retarded as that. I have no idea about your plan, your situation etc nor do I know enough about this complex law to give you a dead on prediction with one known variable, your handle is bears.
So no, that is not what I am inferring, all I know based on our interactions is that you usually get handled then leave and that you most likely know nothing about the ACA and are being an alarmist.
You want the appropriate answer? I don't know what will happen to you and your situation however, the fact that you seem to embrace an external locus of control is a bad sign. What will happen to me Necrosis? give me a answer that I likes, I am a buoy in a pond of piss drifting with the wind, unable to change course beacuse of lack arms (a metaphor for your brain and being immobilized by too many variables).
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Sure if that makes you feel better about being raped and not even touching the post then fine. Also, I am pretty sure it's the first time I have ever quoted him. I am not even sure who he is dude lol.
coming from the guy who just told me that my premiums may DECREASE once the Obamacare mandates kick in? this just keeps getting better and better. seriously keep going. you're making my Monday.
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Strawman, i would never suggest something as retarded as that. I have no idea about your plan, your situation etc nor do I know enough about this complex law to give you a dead on prediction with one known variable, your handle is bears.
So no, that is not what I am inferring, all I know based on our interactions is that you usually get handled then leave and that you most likely know nothing about the ACA and are being an alarmist.
You want the appropriate answer? I don't know what will happen to you and your situation however, the fact that you seem to embrace an external locus of control is a bad sign. What will happen to me Necrosis? give me a answer that I likes, I am a buoy in a pond of piss drifting with the wind, unable to change course beacuse of lack arms (a metaphor for your brain and being immobilized by too many variables).
regurgitating articles defending Obamacare and the ACA does not make you an authority on the subject.
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Strawman, i would never suggest something as retarded as that. I have no idea about your plan, your situation etc nor do I know enough about this complex law to give you a dead on prediction with one known variable, your handle is bears.
So no, that is not what I am inferring, all I know based on our interactions is that you usually get handled then leave and that you most likely know nothing about the ACA and are being an alarmist.
You want the appropriate answer? I don't know what will happen to you and your situation however, the fact that you seem to embrace an external locus of control is a bad sign. What will happen to me Necrosis? give me a answer that I likes, I am a buoy in a pond of piss drifting with the wind, unable to change course beacuse of lack arms (a metaphor for your brain and being immobilized by too many variables).
yeah OK. why don't you tell us all about GE and their tax situation. you seem to be an authority on that subject too. ::) ::)
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There are good things in the ACA, as you have mentioned.
But the facts are it has increased premiums. Not for everyone yet, because not all of it has been implemented. Mine went up 68%. I know lots of other people who are self employed who have had their coverages increase more than that. The way i figure it, based on coveredca.gov, if you make over 45K per year you pay the full price which for a basic $2000.deduc health care is about $450/month. If you make less, it gets subsidized. If you make around 50K per year you are basically paying 10% of gross to HC. Where before it was about 5%.
We also have many stories of coverages being drastically altered, such as family plans getting dropped.
To call this the "Affordable Care Act" seems like a lie. It doesn't really address the cost over runs in our system.
Who really benefits who really doesn't with ACA?
Winners: People who can't afford health care, people with preexisting conditions, etc.
Losers: People who make more than 45K per hear, the tax payers because the government subsidizes those who don't make at least 45K per year
The Grand Champion Winner: The medical industry. They win in every category.
Thank you, elected representatives for looking out for the people.
crickets
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Big insurance defines the policies and people choose whether to buy or not. That's not my idea. That's just how it works. Your second sentence restates my point: people that don't buy insurance ultimately cost more to the public as emergency cases. They are moochers getting medical treatment at our expense, mate.
Before Obamacare, people decided what kind of coverage they wanted in the individual market. Now, the government has made that decision for every one of them.
I don't consider them moochers, unless they don't work and don't pay taxes. Is that the case with uninsured people who get ER treatment?
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It's amazing how facts can kill a thread
There are good things in the ACA, as you have mentioned.
But the facts are it has increased premiums. Not for everyone yet, because not all of it has been implemented. Mine went up 68%. I know lots of other people who are self employed who have had their coverages increase more than that. The way i figure it, based on coveredca.gov, if you make over 45K per year you pay the full price which for a basic $2000.deduc health care is about $450/month. If you make less, it gets subsidized. If you make around 50K per year you are basically paying 10% of gross to HC. Where before it was about 5%.
We also have many stories of coverages being drastically altered, such as family plans getting dropped.
To call this the "Affordable Care Act" seems like a lie. It doesn't really address the cost over runs in our system.
Who really benefits who really doesn't with ACA?
Winners: People who can't afford health care, people with preexisting conditions, etc.
Losers: People who make more than 45K per hear, the tax payers because the government subsidizes those who don't make at least 45K per year
The Grand Champion Winner: The medical industry. They win in every category.
Thank you, elected representatives for looking out for the people.