Govt cutting part time workers to avoid ObamaCare

[FredHayekowski]

actually the reps were willing to pass the no pre existing conditions clause seperately so yes it was available without the rest of the shit show.

Sure they were.  And the democrats shut down the federal government.  Results are results and talk is talk.

Ron Paul has proposed hundreds of pieces of legislation over his 30+ years sucking at the gov. teat.  And he's passed what, 3 pieces over that time?  Results.

[tonymctones]

All I've seen from you is your badmouthing anyone disagreeing with your childish statements.  You cite nothing.  You just state things.  So welcome to the party big guy.

1/3 is inheritance and the balance taking that number to a little less than 50% is living inheritance--steady income from rich parents.  But you didn't read that the first time and you probably won't read it the second time.  You can't help it.  That's how you are.

Where's your citation for your assertion?  I know where mine is.  Why don't you put your money where your mouth is for once in your life and show me something?  Come on.  You're smart.

saying it doesnt make it true..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_110333.html

7 myths about millionaires:

2. Millionaires Just Inherited Their Money
According to Thomas J. Stanley's book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," only 20% of millionaires inherited their riches. The other 80% are what you'd call nouveau riche: first-generation millionaires who earned their cash on their own. Many millionaires simply worked, saved, and lived within their means to generate their wealth -- think accountants and managers: regular people going to work every day. Most millionaires didn't get their riches overnight when a rich relative died -- they worked for the money.

[tonymctones]

Sure they were.  And the democrats shut down the federal government.  Results are results and talk is talk.

Ron Paul has proposed hundreds of pieces of legislation over his 30+ years sucking at the gov. teat.  And he's passed what, 3 pieces over that time?  Results.

results like higher premiums and deductibles?

results like people getting kicked off their plans even though the were told they could keep them if they want?

results like people losing their doctors even though they were told they could keep them?

[tonymctones]

Is it rigging the system for a wealthy person to hire a tutor for their kid?

How about to send them to a private school?

please answer these question

[Soul Crusher]

I am paying 1300 more a year

[Necrosis]

HAHAH typical libtard when proved wrong resulting to a wall O text attacking the messegner.

Let me address this stupidity in pieces as there is to much to address all at once.

The corporate tax I will not spend much time on except to say I agree that business should not be allowed so many tax loopholes but when the alternative is 40% combined federal and state taxes a middle ground needs to be found. SIGNIFICANTLY lower the tax rates and get rid of the loop holes.

Education isnt signing your life into debt, if you sit on your ass and only work in the summer then yea you put yourself in a hole....let me repeat that, YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A HOLE...

If in addition if you major in some irrelevant and unmarketable major like philosophy or history you dig that hole deeper.

Are you seriously stupid enough to believe that GE paid no taxes? no payroll, no local, no state taxes?

Are you seriously stupid enough to believe that there are not cap gain taxes?

The system doesnt benefit the rich the rich benefit themselves...do you really think that people who worked hard shouldnt be able to use that money to better themselves and their families?

Do you think private schools should be abolished b/c poor people cant afford them? I mean thats an advantage isnt it?

PS class mobility is the same it was in the 70's it isnt any harder to get from middle to upper class today than it was 40 years ago.

Dude are you legit with the education thing?what do you have a fucking bachelors, I was talking real education moron, like PHD's, Doctorates, academia, professors etc.. you think a doctor can work in the summers you imbecile? the same fucking education costs 5x more then it use to, no fucking rationale why, did information become more expensive or are you unaware of the money schools are swimming in? Do you know how much debt a Dr goes into?

Ah.. this is my last response to you as you are borderline retarded, for real, legit real retard. You compare a private school to a public school as if that has any relation to debt required to receive an education. Did you think I was talking about kindergarden? toddlers going into debt? university is never fucking PUBLIC MORON, it's not an option, it's not a right, education is, that's why it's PUBLICLY offered, the option is there for private for the rich, unlike university and other forms of higher education.

Do you understand now tomy? do you understand that you don't know what you don't know. Your IQ limits you, I feel bad for you, you really thought you made an argument and you couldn't even see how stupid it was, something as retarded as you typed never enters my mind. It must be hard to think straight with extraneous intrusive retard thoughts with no impulse control to filter the stupid. The stupid spews forth, things like two point curves are created, things that are so retarded no reasonable individual would suggest them, yet this is your best. Your absolute best tamy.

[FredHayekowski]

saying it doesnt make it true..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_110333.html

7 myths about millionaires:

2. Millionaires Just Inherited Their Money
According to Thomas J. Stanley's book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," only 20% of millionaires inherited their riches. The other 80% are what you'd call nouveau riche: first-generation millionaires who earned their cash on their own. Many millionaires simply worked, saved, and lived within their means to generate their wealth -- think accountants and managers: regular people going to work every day. Most millionaires didn't get their riches overnight when a rich relative died -- they worked for the money.

Well I guess I'd better pack it in.  You're right and I'm....hahahaha I can't even fake that.

I ask for proof and you give me a piece of history from '96 based on interviews with professed 'self-made' men with 'how to' tips.

No, the correct answer, is we don't really know the answer definitively because the matter is more complex than the puff piece you dished up.  The 80/20 split is nonsense.  For Christ's sake, Mitt Romney thinks he's a 'self made' man.  "Just ask your parents for seed money to start that new business.."  

Sen. Ron Johnson was poor but he married the Boss's daughter and became a millionaire by virtue of that happy circumstance.  Is he selfmade in the sense of productive effort?  I guess so if that means wrangling to bang the boss's daughter and marry her.

The point is, there is no definitive answer.  I include inheritance and living inheritance which is nothing more than the old seed money advice of Mitt Romney, i.e., help from your family.  If a guy inherits a business from his dad valued at half a million and it grows to net him a million, is he truly self made?  I don't know.

Here's what I look at.  Here's a hint, it has to do with economic mobility (which is damn near dead in the US) which sort of puts paid any notion of self-made millionaires on any sort of meaningful scale--Bill Gates or Bust, nepotism, governmental incentives, contribution of labor, intelligence and luck.  Ed Wolff does some good work in this area.

A recent Barclay's survey found that only 21% of millionaire respondents attributed their new wealth to the sale of their enterprise or profits.  What the hell do you make of that?  It's certainly at odds with the 80/20 survey.

Anyways, what I take from this is that the opportunity to create wealth is the defining factor and that is what is so hard to pin down.  There's no doubt that money makes money and coming from money creates whole lot of opportunity, better schools, insider connections / information, better gov. expenditures aiding upper class mobility into the realm of the rich (to the tune of $746 billion of federal assistance (takes many forms)).

So that's my answer.  I don't know.  But I'm pretty sure that if you're born with rich parents, Horatio Alger is not your story.

[FredHayekowski]

please answer these question

Those are distinct advantages not available to the poor.  A better choice of rigging is Bush style economics.  Bush made his fortune through his old man's connections.  He's no more of a self made man than JFK was.  But that's how money operates. 

How about Cheney enriching himself through munitions assets and having two illegal wars to make those stocks grow, grow, grow?

Connections speak louder than words.  That's a rigging as sure as nepotism and the old Romney family loan for a startup business.

[Bear232]

Government takeover?  Takeover of what?  The government owns no insurance company.  The private big insurers that have been screwing you sideways for years with $5,000 deductibles still own the show.

No, the ACA is not good law.  But it is better than what was.

But yet if the insurance pools end up lopsided, guess who gets bailed out.   Insurance companies.  Pretty nifty huh?

[tonymctones]

Dude are you legit with the education thing?what do you have a fucking bachelors, I was talking real education moron, like PHD's, Doctorates, academia, professors etc.. you think a doctor can work in the summers you imbecile? the same fucking education costs 5x more then it use to, no fucking rationale why, did information become more expensive or are you unaware of the money schools are swimming in? Do you know how much debt a Dr goes into?

Ah.. this is my last response to you as you are borderline retarded, for real, legit real retard. You compare a private school to a public school as if that has any relation to debt required to receive an education. Did you think I was talking about kindergarden? toddlers going into debt? university is never fucking PUBLIC MORON, it's not an option, it's not a right, education is, that's why it's PUBLICLY offered, the option is there for private for the rich, unlike university and other forms of higher education.

Do you understand now tomy? do you understand that you don't know what you don't know. Your IQ limits you, I feel bad for you, you really thought you made an argument and you couldn't even see how stupid it was, something as retarded as you typed never enters my mind. It must be hard to think straight with extraneous intrusive retard thoughts with no impulse control to filter the stupid. The stupid spews forth, things like two point curves are created, things that are so retarded no reasonable individual would suggest them, yet this is your best. Your absolute best tamy.

try two bachelors and a masters moron, sorry dumb ass if you are smart about it and work while you go to school it doesnt have to be a drag on the rest of your life.

[tonymctones]

Well I guess I'd better pack it in.  You're right and I'm....hahahaha I can't even fake that.

I ask for proof and you give me a piece of history from '96 based on interviews with professed 'self-made' men with 'how to' tips.

No, the correct answer, is we don't really know the answer definitively because the matter is more complex than the puff piece you dished up.  The 80/20 split is nonsense.  For Christ's sake, Mitt Romney thinks he's a 'self made' man.  "Just ask your parents for seed money to start that new business.."  

Sen. Ron Johnson was poor but he married the Boss's daughter and became a millionaire by virtue of that happy circumstance.  Is he selfmade in the sense of productive effort?  I guess so if that means wrangling to bang the boss's daughter and marry her.

The point is, there is no definitive answer.  I include inheritance and living inheritance which is nothing more than the old seed money advice of Mitt Romney, i.e., help from your family.  If a guy inherits a business from his dad valued at half a million and it grows to net him a million, is he truly self made?  I don't know.

Here's what I look at.  Here's a hint, it has to do with economic mobility (which is damn near dead in the US) which sort of puts paid any notion of self-made millionaires on any sort of meaningful scale--Bill Gates or Bust, nepotism, governmental incentives, contribution of labor, intelligence and luck.  Ed Wolff does some good work in this area.

A recent Barclay's survey found that only 21% of millionaire respondents attributed their new wealth to the sale of their enterprise or profits.  What the hell do you make of that?  It's certainly at odds with the 80/20 survey.

Anyways, what I take from this is that the opportunity to create wealth is the defining factor and that is what is so hard to pin down.  There's no doubt that money makes money and coming from money creates whole lot of opportunity, better schools, insider connections / information, better gov. expenditures aiding upper class mobility into the realm of the rich (to the tune of $746 billion of federal assistance (takes many forms)).

So that's my answer.  I don't know.  But I'm pretty sure that if you're born with rich parents, Horatio Alger is not your story.

so you ridicule my citation and still do not give one of your own...then you attack me while not refuting any of the points made against or validating your unproven points.


youre the dumbest gimmick this board has seen since blacken

[tonymctones]

So that's my answer.  I don't know.  But I'm pretty sure that if you're born with rich parents, Horatio Alger is not your story.

well I have to give you some credit...

After the wall of text to deflect you finally admit you dont know what youre talking about and all your views are opinion based and YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK THEM UP

[tonymctones]

A recent Barclay's survey found that only 21% of millionaire respondents attributed their new wealth to the sale of their enterprise or profits.  What the hell do you make of that?  It's certainly at odds with the 80/20 survey.

Actually you moronic dumb ass it fits pretty fucking perfectly into what I posted.

saying it doesnt make it true..

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pf_article_110333.html

7 myths about millionaires:

2. Millionaires Just Inherited Their Money
According to Thomas J. Stanley's book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," only 20% of millionaires inherited their riches. The other 80% are what you'd call nouveau riche: first-generation millionaires who earned their cash on their own. Many millionaires simply worked, saved, and lived within their means to generate their wealth -- think accountants and managers: regular people going to work every day. Most millionaires didn't get their riches overnight when a rich relative died -- they worked for the money.

I FUCKING E people who lived within their means and were smart with their money...

where the fuck does your dumb ass get 80% are people who sold their business?

for shits sake your a fucking horrible gimmick

[FredHayekowski]

so you ridicule my citation and still do not give one of your own...then you attack me while not refuting any of the points made against or validating your unproven points.

You say you look at while not giving any proof of numbers or citing any back up for your ideas.

youre the dumbest gimmick this board has seen since blacken

Your citation is garbage.  Tell me, how can you even accurately measure inheritance when inheritance by will bypasses probate meaning there is no public record of the transfer?  We're left with guys like Romney (and yourself) deluded into believing they are self-made.

You and your citation are inadequate.  There, you and your source have been discredited, are you happy now?

Plus you missed my Barclays citation countering your 80 / 20 nonsense.

What do I expect?  You want to believe that there's terrific income mobility and many Horatio Alger self-made millionaire stories b/c it fits your...'prejudice' doesn't do you justice...it doesn't fit your fantasy.

Authoritarian point number 2 million and 2:  When presented with counter-arguments, the authoritarian fanatic lashes out claiming victimization while attacking and insulting in retreat.

I think this necrosis fellow has you pegged perfectly.

[FredHayekowski]

try two bachelors and a masters moron, sorry dumb ass if you are smart about it and work while you go to school it doesnt have to be a drag on the rest of your life.

What's the University of Phoenix like?

On the level, your ejaculations on this board indicate two dimensional immature thinking.

[tonymctones]

Your citation is garbage.  Tell me, how can you even accurately measure inheritance when inheritance by will bypasses probate meaning there is no public record of the transfer?  We're left with guys like Romney (and yourself) deluded into believing they are self-made.

You and your citation are inadequate.  There, you and your source have been discredited, are you happy now?

Plus you missed my Barclays citation countering your 80 / 20 nonsense.

What do I expect?  You want to believe that there's terrific income mobility and many Horatio Alger self-made millionaire stories b/c it fits your...'prejudice' doesn't do you justice...it doesn't fit your fantasy.

Authoritarian point number 2 million and 2:  When presented with counter-arguments, the authoritarian fanatic lashes out claiming victimization while attacking and insulting in retreat.

I think this necrosis fellow has you pegged perfectly.

LOL no I addressed your BC citation and it fits right in with my citation.

What's the University of Phoenix like?

On the level, your ejaculations on this board indicate two dimensional immature thinking.

HAHHA 2 public universities for undergrad and a private for grad school, whats your background gimmick?

[FredHayekowski]

well I have to give you some credit...

After the wall of text to deflect you finally admit you dont know what youre talking about and all your views are opinion based and YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK THEM UP

I have a survey from Barclays to support my contention, just like you.  But you didn't even know that.

Plus I have the intelligence and integrity to understand the complexity of the matter at hand and I admit that there is no definitive answer...remember, inheritance by will leaves no public record?

In other words, I have integrity.  I admit that and like a little child you pounce on that as some sort of capitulation to your asinine argument.  You're a child.  You don't belong in the company of thinking men.

Authoritarian trait #4:  Dogmatic assertions and a complete inability to grasp the contours and complexities of an issue.  Everything is black and white.

I swear that you were the model for the authoritarian psychological profile. You are practically screaming, "look at me and my herdlike cowardice!!!!"

[FredHayekowski]

LOL no I addressed your BC citation and it fits right in with my citation.
HAHHA 2 public universities for undergrad and a private for grad school, whats your background gimmick?

Educated people do not make asses of themselves the way you do.

My degrees dwarf yours.  But I'm here to discuss topics.  You're here to do anything but that.  Why don't you post another link you don't understand and call everyone names.

My cite contradicts yours.  So what exactly are you talking about?

[FredHayekowski]

LOL no I addressed your BC citation and it fits right in with my citation.
HAHHA 2 public universities for undergrad and a private for grad school, whats your background gimmick?

Your cite is meaningless.  Inheritance descended by will leaves no record.  It's all the word of guys like Romney who claim they are self-made.  Ludicrous.

There is no reliable metric for that basis.  Why don't you tell us again about the 80 / 20 split?

[FredHayekowski]

here's a whole book that goes into the finer points of your misunderstanding.

http://books.google.com/books?id=AcSMK5dbQKUC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=%22self+made+millionaire%22+myth&source=bl&ots=ZYJrnhNZ_R&sig=OsDb2tQMwcpw663zE11W5OiCRKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SmcJU6WtMu--2AXgo4DwAQ&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCDgU#v=onepage&q=%22self%20made%20millionaire%22%20myth&f=false

But if you stick to your profile, you'll just keep parroting your80 /20 link.  That's how authoritarians work.  You want to believe that each man is an island succeeding in a vacuum and you'll suck up and spit out anything that plays that meme.  You'll do this with your next post.

I almost forge (edit) your proof is from 1996 and my proof is current.  How does one have anything to do with the other?  Couple that with the complete lack of basis for inherited wealth and you're just slinging bullshit.

I'm man enough to admit when  we know that we don't know answer.  Not you.  Your authoritarian programming won't permit it.

[FredHayekowski]

Look!  Another survey that refutes your 80 / 20 conclusion:

http://millionairecorner.com/Content_Free/What-are-the-Wealth-Creation-Strategies-of-Millionaire-Millennials.aspx


Unlike their predecessors, Millionaire Millennials are more apt to credit their education rather than hard work as their primary wealth creation factor,


Well I guess it does depend on whom you ask. 

[Necrosis]

try two bachelors and a masters moron, sorry dumb ass if you are smart about it and work while you go to school it doesnt have to be a drag on the rest of your life.

HAHA you just get raped and that's your response? you do not have an education, you didn't even know what a fucking bell curve was asshat. You just tried to equivocate basic education with post secondary education. You are a nimwit tomy.

No. so because it may still be possible to get an education without debt (the he stats don't show that) it doesn't bother you that the cost of education has skyrocketed? that jobs our parents had/have were fucking off the street but now you need 14 degrees to do, which are ever increasing in cost with ever decreasing oppurtunity.

[blacken700]

lol tony you got owned big time,this is the worst I've seen on this board it's about time you tell them you were a judo champ  

[RRKore]

I am paying 1300 more a year

That sucks.  My experience with ACA is neither good nor bad because my plan and what I pay for it didn't change a bit.

This guy, FWIW, had a pretty good experience:

I signed up for health insurance, told my GOP Congressman about it, and made the local news
...
My healthcare saga began in 2002. That’s the year that I left full-time employment and went into the cruel world on my own. No longer did I have a group plan selected by an employer. I had to shop for my own coverage. At first it was easy. When my COBRA coverage ended in 2003, I chose a $1,000-deductible plan that cost me about $210 per month. No big deal; I could easily afford it.

But each year the dreaded renewal letter arrived, and the premiums increased by leaps and bounds. In years when my age was divisible by 5, the increases were stunning in their scope. I could do the math. Before long, the premiums would be beyond my ability to pay.

I cheered when Obama was elected, and I cheered when Congress began to consider changes to our healthcare system. Then I watched in dismay as the debate wore on. Single payer was taken off the table, and the surviving proposals were watered down to suit the egos of various elected officials. The early provisions of the Affordable Care Act were of no help to me. Somehow, I needed to hold on until 2014. I didn’t make it that far.

In early 2011, I was paying $463 per month for a plan with a $2,600 deductible. In eight years’ time, my premiums had more than doubled, and so had my deductible. But the big shock was yet to come. When my renewal letter arrived, I was politely informed to begin remitting $756 instead of $463 – a staggering 63% increase. My health insurance was going to cost more than my house payment! That was my line in the sand. I had told myself that I would drop my insurance if it ever got that expensive.

Before letting go, I did two things. I went to my doctor for a thorough checkup, including a blood test. And I applied for a very-high-deductible plan that would keep my monthly payment in the $400 range. Given that I was still insured, the insurance folks got a copy of the blood test, which they proceeded to search line by line until they found something wrong with me. Out of two pages of data, there was a single thyroid reading was outside of “normal” range (side note: there’s nothing wrong with my thyroid; it was simply their excuse to make me pay that outrageous premium). They’d found their so-called preexisting condition, and denied me access to the new plan with the lower premium. With the help of my doctor, who wrote a letter on my behalf, I appealed.

I still remember where I was when I got the phone call. I had just driven across the country to do forestry work in the Pacific Northwest for three months. It was an utterly miserable July day on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington. Rain was coming down, and all the trees and underbrush were soaking wet. Water was making its way through and around my rain gear. I’m about ten miles from the nearest cell tower, and barely had a signal. My appeal had been denied, said the distant voice. My choice was to pay the $756 premium or do without insurance. I said, “Terminate the policy.”

I stood there in the rain, wondering whether I was a genius or an idiot. Only time would tell.

Fast forward to December 15, 2013. I’m at the healthcare.gov website, making my third attempt to log in. My first effort in early October, and my second try later that month, never got as far as obtaining a username. The same bizarre error message stopped me in my tracks both times. I had to settle for printing an application and mailing it to a center in Kentucky. Six weeks passed, and I heard nothing.

Now, with the deadline approaching, I was ready to try again. First, I browsed the plans. Only two insurance companies were offering plans on the exchange in this part of Georgia, but there are 18 total plans available. I selected a bronze plan offering coverage across state lines, since I travel so much.

With the plan chosen, I began the process of creating an account at healthcare.gov. As I progressed through the various steps, the system even located my paper application. Along the way, I was required to make several decisions. I was asked how much money I expect to earn in 2014. As an independent consultant, I can only guess. The earnings estimate is used to calculate your subsidy, but you are allowed to decrease the size of the subsidy you accept, in case your earnings turn out higher than expected. In my case, the subsidy was going to pay about two-thirds of my $570 monthly premium. I chose to err on the side of caution, selecting a $200 subsidy for a net cost of $370 per month. Once I made those decisions, I was set. In less than an hour, I had been approved for health insurance.

More at link:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/22/1264619/-I-signed-up-for-health-insurance-told-my-GOP-Congressman-about-it-and-made-the-local-news

[Soul Crusher]

Lol.   Yeah everyone loves free shit.