fOR everYone that HATES islam and thinks all muslims are terrorists..

[seauantea]

From wikipedia...

A certain religious scholar said, "For every Qur'anic verse there are sixty thousand understandings [comprehensible to man]. The understandings of it which remain [incomprehensible to man] are even more than these in number."

Really weak evidence, nice try tho!

I see, the one who knew nothing of Tasfir knows better than a religious scholar?

From your own source:

This supports my stance, how for example, can the multiple interpretations [that contradict] be valid, to be free of contradiction means there can only be a single interpret in regards to a sample of text the size of the koran.

Free of contradiction does not necessarily imply "there can only be a single interpret": Different interpretations need only be congruent amongst themselves. If what you propose were accurate, there would be no need for Muhammad's Hadith which serves to "supplement and clarify the Quran". Nor would there be any need for the Sahaba, which further interprets the Quran. Both of these tools are as old as Islam itself.

Once again, you show a distinct lack of education regarding Islam. As I wrote before you offer only propaganda; the fingerprint of a weak mind

[Nordic Superman]

aint it funny that no one talks to nord or pays attention to him or invites his opinion yet he barges in anyhow..


he kn ows i dislike him yet he insists on posting on EVERYONE of my threads..

low class.. 

You really know how to make a girl feel wanted...




















... yah fag ...

I see, the one who knew nothing of Tasfir knows better than a religious scholar?

"Free of contradiction does not necessarily imply "there can only be a single interpret": Different interpretations need only be congruent amongst themselves. If what you propose were accurate, there would be no need for Muhammad's Hadith which serves to "supplement and clarify the Quran". Nor would there be any need for the Sahaba, which further interprets the Quran. Both of these tools are as old as Islam itself.

Once again, you show a distinct lack of education regarding Islam. As I wrote before you offer only propaganda; the fingerprint of a weak mind

So, you REALLY believe 60,000 to be a realistic figure? ANY evidence supporting this? Is it REALLY logical EACH and EVERY verse has 60K possible interpretations? Even the most fundamentally basic verses have 60K possible interpretations?

Don't you what I see as a frivolous statement as evidence in your point if you do not support it.

So I ask you now, do you support the accuracy of that statement? Is his opinion in anyway bias?

Please explain to me something containing as much literature as the koran could possibly follow the formulae of having differing interpretations need only be congruent amongst themselves.

You would have commanded a much more demanding position in this debate hadn't you stated the hadith was as old as islam itself.

You're getting the basics incorrect, so how are you an authority to say to me I show a "distinct" lack of education regarding islam?

[seauantea]

So, you REALLY believe 60,000 to be a realistic figure? ANY evidence supporting this? Is it REALLY logical EACH and EVERY verse has 60K possible interpretations? Even the most fundamentally basic verses have 60K possible interpretations?

Don't you what I see as a frivolous statement as evidence in your point if you do not support it.

So I ask you now, do you support the accuracy of that statement? Is his opinion in anyway bias?

Maybe, just maybe, the religious scholar was speaking figuratively.

The exactness of "60 000" should have been your first clue.

"oh brother"

Please explain to me something containing as much literature as the koran could possibly follow the formulae of having differing interpretations need only be congruent amongst themselves.

With your literalist mindset, "something containing as much literature as the Koran" could never have even one truly congruent interpretation; there will always be a passage that seemingly contradicts another. With this in mind (see next point)...

You would have commanded a much more demanding position in this debate hadn't you stated the hadith was as old as islam itself.

You're getting the basics incorrect, so how are you an authority to say to me I show a "distinct" lack of education regarding islam?

Again, from wikipedia:

A hadith was originally an oral tradition relevant to the actions and customs of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Starting with the first Fitna of the 7th century, those receiving the hadith started to question the sources of the saying.[1] This resulted in a list of transmitters, for example "A told me that B told him that Muhammad said". This list of the chain of testimony by which a hadith was transmitted is called an Isnad. The text itself came to be known as Matn.

The hadith were eventually recorded in written form, had their Isnad evaluated and were gathered into large collections mostly during the reign of Umar II (bin Abdul Aziz, grandson of Umar bin Khattab(RAA)2nd Caliph) during 8th century, something that solidified in the 9th century. These works are still today referred to in matters of Islamic law and History.

Since inception(ie Hadith is as old as Islam itself , Muslims realized a text as large and containing as many historical and moralistic references as the Koran requires interpretation; one needs to appreciate the context of the Koran to interpret it and cross reference the passages. Ergo, the hadith and Sahaba.

It is somewhat amusing you cannot grasp this concept; most children struggle with literalism too.

[Nordic Superman]

Maybe, just maybe, the religious scholar was speaking figuratively.

The exactness of "60 000" should have been your first clue.

"oh brother"

With your literalist mindset, "something containing as much literature as the Koran" could never have even one truly congruent interpretation; there will always be a passage that seemingly contradicts another. With this in mind (see next point)...

Again, from wikipedia:

Since inception(ie Hadith is as old as Islam itself , Muslims realized a text as large and containing as many historical and moralistic references as the Koran requires interpretation; one needs to appreciate the context of the Koran to interpret it and cross reference the passages. Ergo, the hadith and Sahaba.

It is somewhat amusing you cannot grasp this concept; most children struggle with literalism too.

The hadith is not as old as islam itself.

Muhammad was the very first muslim, and for a muslim to exist, so must the religious body. Are you saying in the very instance muhammad became a muslim so did the hadiths?

It's quite obvious the hadiths aren't as old as islam itself, and you are yet to provide evidence supporting this.

Oh and quit with the childish ad-hominem attacks, it makes you look like a child.

[amc1980]

Nordic, do you have legs that are short when compared to the length of your body?

[Option D]

My car is powered by a nuclear fission engine.

0-60 in like a nano second.

LMAO...i got the same car...with some 20's on it...

[seauantea]

The hadith is not as old as islam itself.

Muhammad was the very first muslim, and for a muslim to exist, so must the religious body. Are you saying in the very instance muhammad became a muslim so did the hadiths?

It's quite obvious the hadiths aren't as old as islam itself, and you are yet to provide evidence supporting this.

Oh and quit with the childish ad-hominem attacks, it makes you look like a child.

You cannot have Islam without a Koran, the revelations of which began in 610 and were not completed until 632 when Muhammad died.

The hadiths began in the 610's.

Ergo, since you insist on splitting hairs like a child, the hadiths are “as old as Islam itself” and if anything, even older. I did not spell this out because being the "traditions relating to the words and deeds of Muhammad" it seemed obvious to me the hadiths began contemporaneously with Islam. In the future I will keep in mind my target audience and include every detail, no matter how insultingly mundane.

Once again, you are transfixed in a literalist (childish) mindset and clearly in the wrong. It must hurt to realise the "philosophy" of hatred you guide your life with is rooted in ignorance

[headhuntersix]

Who cares...i Understand enough when 17 of the 19 major conflicts raging around the globe involve muslims...wonderful folks.

[Nordic Superman]

You cannot have Islam without a Koran, the revelations of which began in 610 and were not completed until 632 when Muhammad died.

The hadiths began in the 610's.

Ergo, since you insist on splitting hairs like a child, the hadiths are “as old as Islam itself” and if anything, even older. I did not spell this out because being the "traditions relating to the words and deeds of Muhammad" it seemed obvious to me the hadiths began contemporaneously with Islam. In the future I will keep in mind my target audience and include every detail, no matter how insultingly mundane.

Once again, you are transfixed in a literalist (childish) mindset and clearly in the wrong. It must hurt to realise the "philosophy" of hatred you guide your life with is rooted in ignorance

Right, so what was the year muhammad himself became a muslim?

You're forgetting one crucial piece of evidence here. Islam has existed forever in the form of the "mother of books" which the koran is a copy of.

Muslims believe adam and eve were "muslims".

Ergo, hadith age != age islam, no matter how pseudo intellectually you wish to speak.

[youandme]

Who cares...i Understand enough when 17 of the 19 major conflicts raging around the globe involve muslims...wonderful folks.

simple as that

[seauantea]

Right, so what was the year muhammad himself became a muslim?

Muhammad could not have been a Muslim until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam.

You're forgetting one crucial piece of evidence here. Islam has existed forever in the form of the "mother of books" which the koran is a copy of.

Muslims believe adam and eve were "muslims".

Ergo, hadith age != age islam, no matter how pseudo intellectually you wish to speak.

Interesting approach; it is true Muslims do not consider themselves a new religion, rather a restoration of one corrupted by Judaism and Christianity, but even this belief did not begin until sometime after 610 when Muhammad told them it was so.

Do you have evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam?

You deserve recognition for your childlike creativity. On an empirical level, however, your argument holds no water.

[Nordic Superman]

Muhammad could not have been a Muslim until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam.

Interesting approach; it is true Muslims do not consider themselves a new religion, rather a restoration of one corrupted by Judaism and Christianity, but even this belief did not begin until sometime after 610 when Muhammad told them it was so.

Do you have evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam?

You deserve recognition for your childlike creativity. On an empirical level, however, your argument holds no water.

Right so you can't really refute that point over than psuedo intellectual statements.

How can you say muhammad couldn't be a muslim until his final revelation? That is so false it's unbelieveable you try to pass it off as fact.

Muhammad and his men regarded themselves muslims throught their expansion. Read the history of muhammad and islam.

BTW, you come across as one protentious S.O.B!

[seauantea]

You need to read more carefully; I refuted your point by asking for "evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam". Likewise, I clearly explained why Muhammad could not have been a Muslim "until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam."

I would rather come across as "protentious" than ignorant


 

[Nordic Superman]

You need to read more carefully; I refuted your point by asking for "evidence of Adam and Eve, or any other monotheist predating Judaism, practicing the 5 Pillars of Islam". Likewise, I clearly explained why Muhammad could not have been a Muslim "until after he received his final revelation; otherwise, by implication, not all revelations are necessary tenants of Islam."

I would rather come across as "protentious" than ignorant

Well you're ignorant too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_of_first_male_Muslim

"This conversion would have happened sometime between 610 CE, when Muhammad started sharing his experiences (visions of divine origin) with his immediate family, and 612 CE"

Therefore, the concept of a muslim pre-dates your incorrect view of islam.

[Nordic Superman]

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_7th_century_Muslim_history

613: Declaration at Mount Safa inviting the general public to Islam

631 or 632, tribe of Thaqif adopts Islam

[amc1980]

Don't dodge the REAL question, Manni!

[Nordic Superman]

Don't dodge the REAL question, Manni!

What real question?

Only so much can be taken into consideration with a person who presents himself as an islamic scholar, with this false information.

Anyhow, how's the law degree coming along? You represented any burka wearing muslim whores yet?

[G o a t b o y]

Well, at most there's at most 50 years before the shit hits the fan. Either we find a solution (IMO it will be found), or...

Yeah or......we'll find something. Otherwise we seem to have plenty of horses here.

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php

[ToxicAvenger]

Who cares...i Understand enough when 17 of the 19 major conflicts raging around the globe involve muslims...wonderful folks.

surprisingly the up and coming taliban think exactly the same of christianity..


..think about that..

[ToxicAvenger]

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php

wow thanx for the link..

[Nordic Superman]

surprisingly the up and coming taliban think exactly the same of christianity..


..think about that..

You REALLY lack intelligence.

As Hedge says. We are the enlightened ones, how YOU can make a comparison to the Taliban is an absolute joke. You know full well HH6 has some weight in what he's saying, and the Taliban has zero.

You fucking digust me.

[amc1980]

What real question?

Only so much can be taken into consideration with a person who presents himself as an islamic scholar, with this false information.

Anyhow, how's the law degree coming along? You represented any burka wearing muslim whores yet?

This question:

Nordic, do you have legs that are short when compared to the length of your body?

The degree's dragging on, but only one more year to go. Haven't defended any "burkha wearing whores" as I've been too busy training for Royal Marine selection next March  .

[Nordic Superman]

This question:

The degree's dragging on, but only one more year to go. Haven't defended any "burkha wearing whores" as I've been too busy training for Royal Marine selection next March  .

Haha no, lol.

Nice, honourable career!

One of my old school mates tried the marine route, basically it was too much for him and ended up working in a super market for 2 years before finally becoming a plumber. He's bald now... Try not taking the same route as him!

[Tapper]

My gas is from Canada.

[amc1980]

Haha no, lol.

Nice, honourable career!

One of my old school mates tried the marine route, basically it was too much for him and ended up working in a super market for 2 years before finally becoming a plumber. He's bald now... Try not taking the same route as him!

I think I'm fucked on the bald front. Pretty much all the males on both my parent's sides are "follicly challenged". It's just a matter of waiting for the inevitable.

The reason for the legs question is that my mate Ole's parents are Norwegian, and all his family have short legs/long body. Just wondered if it was some kind of evolutionary trait? To aid the catching of puffins, perhaps?