Do supplements work or are they bull?

[Van_Bilderass]

But it doesn't make any significant difference in body composition, which is what I said:

It isn't a steroid for sure, although part of why steroids make you gain weight (lbm) is increased muscle creatine stores. So you can mimic a part of that with creatine supplements. Sure, it's temporary but so are steroids.

There are some mechanisms whereby creatine might help increase actual contractile muscle tissue too, over time. For example:

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2008 Aug;18(4):389-98.Links
    Effect of creatine supplementation and resistance-exercise training on muscle insulin-like growth factor in young adults.
    Burke DG, Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, MacNeil LG, Roy BD, Tarnopolsky MA, Ziegenfuss T.

    Department of Human Kinetics, St. Francis Xavier University, Antigonish, NS, Canada.

    The purpose of this study was to compare changes in muscle insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) content resulting from resistance-exercise training (RET) and creatine supplementation (CR). Male (n=24) and female (n=18) participants with minimal resistance-exercise-training experience (=1 year) who were participating in at least 30 min of structured physical activity (i.e., walking, jogging, cycling) 3-5 x/wk volunteered for the study. Participants were randomly assigned in blocks (gender) to supplement with creatine (CR: 0.25 g/kg lean-tissue mass for 7 days; 0.06 g/kg lean-tissue mass for 49 days; n=22, 12 males, 10 female) or isocaloric placebo (PL: n=20, 12 male, 8 female) and engage in a whole-body RET program for 8 wk. Eighteen participants were classified as vegetarian (lacto-ovo or vegan; CR: 5 male, 5 female; PL: 3 male, 5 female). Muscle biopsies (vastus lateralis) were taken before and after the intervention and analyzed for IGF-I using standard immunohistochemical procedures. Stained muscle cross-sections were examined microscopically and IGF-I content quantified using image-analysis software. Results showed that RET increased intramuscular IGF-I content by 67%, with greater accumulation from CR (+78%) than PL (+54%; p=.06). There were no differences in IGF-I between vegetarians and nonvegetarians. These findings indicate that creatine supplementation during resistance-exercise training increases intramuscular IGF-I concentration in healthy men and women, independent of habitual dietary routine.

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2005 May;37(5):731-6.Click here to read Links
    Increased IGF mRNA in human skeletal muscle after creatine supplementation.
    Deldicque L, Louis M, Theisen D, Nielens H, Dehoux M, Thissen JP, Rennie MJ, Francaux M.

    Department of Physical Education and Rehabilitation, Faculty of Medicine, Catholic University of Louvain, Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium.

    PURPOSE: We hypothesized that creatine supplementation would facilitate muscle anabolism by increasing the expression of growth factors and the phosphorylation of anabolic signaling molecules; we therefore tested the responses of mRNA for IGF-I and IGF-II and the phosphorylation state of components of anabolic signaling pathways p70(s6k) and 4E-BP1 to a bout of high-intensity resistance exercise after 5 d of creatine supplementation. METHODS: In a double-blind cross-over design, muscle biopsies were taken from the m. vastus lateralis at rest and 3 and 24 h postexercise in subjects who had taken creatine or placebo for 5 d (21 g x d(-1)). For the first 3 h postexercise, the subjects were fed with a drink containing maltodextrin (0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight x h(-1)) and protein (0.08 g x kg(-1) body weight x h(-1)). RESULTS: After creatine supplementation, resting muscle expressed more mRNA for IGF-I (+30%, P < 0.05) and IGF-II (+40%, P = 0.054). Exercise caused an increase by 3 h postexercise in IGF-I (+24%, P < 0.05) and IGF-II (+48%, P < 0.05) and by 24 h postexercise in IGF-I (+29%, P < 0.05), but this effect was not potentiated by creatine supplementation. The phosphorylation states of p70(s6k) and 4E-BP1 were not affected by creatine at rest; phosphorylation of both increased (150-400%, P < 0.05) to similar levels under placebo and creatine conditions at 3 h postexercise plus feeding. However, the phosphorylation state of 4E-BP1 was higher in the creatine versus placebo condition at 24 h postexercise. CONCLUSION: The increase in lean body mass often reported after creatine supplementation could be mediated by signaling pathway(s) involving IGF and 4E-BP1.

Regular creatine mono is practically free so I use it, can't hurt, and any lbm I can get even if water is welcome.

[Necrosis]

But it doesn't make any significant difference in body composition, which is what I said:





I'm pretty sure I said that:

no it does, read the literature. If your expecting amazing life changing results then no. But you wont get that from switching from chicken to beef either. They supplement your diet and aid you. Look at ephedrine that is a supplement, a natural herb, the alkaloid is from the herb ma haung or ephedra.

caffeine, creatine, fish oil, green tea has tons of studies showing significant fat loss potential.

I wont argue with anectdotal evidence, the clinical evidence speaks for itself. Testing them on yourself then making broad generalizations isn't a good way to make judgements since there is so many variables.

I really like reservatrol for test boosting and notice improvment in body comp from it in transdermal, there is lit out there for this, and people have lab results with test increase and estrogen decreases. Just an example, alot of companies throw shit in a pile in less then effective doses and thats perhaps the reason why many supps suck.

[haider]

no it does, read the literature. If your expecting amazing life changing results then no. But you wont get that from switching from chicken to beef either. They supplement your diet and aid you. Look at ephedrine that is a supplement, a natural herb, the alkaloid is from the herb ma haung or ephedra.

caffeine, creatine, fish oil, green tea has tons of studies showing significant fat loss potential.

I wont argue with anectdotal evidence, the clinical evidence speaks for itself. Testing them on yourself then making broad generalizations isn't a good way to make judgements since there is so many variables.

I really like reservatrol for test boosting and notice improvment in body comp from it in transdermal, there is lit out there for this, and people have lab results with test increase and estrogen decreases. Just an example, alot of companies throw shit in a pile in less then effective doses and thats perhaps the reason why many supps suck.

if they ever creat a supplement for improving grammar, you should be the first one to take it. just sayin... anyhoo, what do you think of BCAA supplements? I've tried Scivation's XTEND as a pre-during-post workout drink and there were noticeable differences in my stamina and post-workout recovery (reduced DOMS).

And whats this "reservatrol" supplement you're talking about? never heard of it.

P.S.: Still waiting on your PM's, hun 

[buffdnet]

The bodybuilding industry is such a scam, for the most part.

fixed

also fact is unless it's handed to you directly by a pharmacist, vet or a doctor,
99% of drug users have no idea what they are injecting and none of you pay
to have your crap tested. not unlike any other junkie

[Necrosis]

if they ever creat a supplement for improving grammar, you should be the first one to take it. just sayin... anyhoo, what do you think of BCAA supplements? I've tried Scivation's XTEND as a pre-during-post workout drink and there were noticeable differences in my stamina and post-workout recovery (reduced DOMS).

And whats this "reservatrol" supplement you're talking about? never heard of it.

P.S.: Still waiting on your PM's, hun 

I could improve my grammar to a decent level but my posts are somewhat lazy. Check me out on mind and muscle for examples of me mastering the art of writing.

reservatrol is found in red wine, besides its antioxidant capabilities it is quite potent at stimulating testosterone production and sensitizing test to LH response. Primordial Performance has a supp called sustain alpha with it in it, is nice. Should help asthma also . I love bcaa's and really like xtend, not sure why they used glutamine but the taste is awesome, lemonade is the nuts.

forgot about the pm's, i always forget about pm's. Not sure why, geuss laziness is permeating my entire life.





























































ps... i love u

[Geo]

Protein powder (or a protein/carb blend) as a convenient meal replacement is fine, but it's really just another food.  Asking if protein powder "works" is kind of like asking if steak "works".

Many health-promoting supplements, like fish oil, antioxidants, and several others have value for health or disease-prevention, but are totally worthless for body-composition changes.

Ephedrine/caffeine was effective as a weight-loss aid (mostly because it suppresses appetite), but most "fat burner" supplements sold today do not contain ephedrine.

Creatine causes water retention and adds water weight to the scale, but has little to do with real body composition changes and muscle to fat ratio.

Everything else out there is pure unadulterated snake oil.

"Veteran bodybuilders" use supplements because they are paid to by their supplement-selling sponsors.

So, I stand by my original statement:  The only "supplements" that produce any measurable changes in body composition are injectable testosterone and human growth hormone.

great post if you were talking to a bunch of jr high students, but seriously redundant and lame if you're trying to pass that rhetoric off as knowledge to anyone with half a clue....

I give this post a D+ and rank it right up there with reruns of friends or sienfeld..

[G o a t b o y]

great post if you were talking to a bunch of jr high students, but seriously redundant and lame if you're trying to pass that rhetoric off as knowledge to anyone with half a clue....

I give this post a D+ and rank it right up there with reruns of friends or sienfeld..

Translation:    Geo is a serious supplement user, and I appear to have struck a nerve with him.


Go back to the X Board, old man. 

[Palpatine Q]

he has said before that m1t is better than dbol.  "prohormone" is a term used for steroids that arent illegal yet. they are steroids, 100%.

I'm talking about today's PH's,  M1T has been gone for years

[Geo]

Translation:    Geo is a serious supplement user, and I appear to have struck a nerve with him.


Go back to the X Board, old man. 

speaking of nerves,when ya gonna post a pic ?

I mean it's only been ten years that ya been posting here, and you're about the last one in the pool as far as showing a little "independance from the bondage of self doubt"...

I'm guessing you were THAT kid in high school that took showers in high school gym wearing his underwear..

                                     

[MCWAY]

I think protein shakes are useful, especially if you don't have the time/job that allows you to eat throughout the day, anytime you want.  They are called "supplements" for a reason.  I wouldn't recommend trying to live off them....

EXACTLY!!!

As I've said numerous times, most of the people blubbering about supplements not working likely had horrible diets and were eating like garbage, foolishly expecting the supplements to make up the slack.

As far as protein shakes go, people also forget that the bodybuilders who use them (i.e. the NPC top amateurs and IFBB pros) drink the stuff like Kool-Aid. Back in the 90s, when MET-Rx was the protein supplement supreme, competitors were taking 8 packs of that stuff daily, which last I checked was just under 300 grams of protein.

This was in ADDITION to the regular food they ate.

[doubler1964]

n oooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[slayer]

Their good for natural as far as adding some water weight(creatine ect..) ,giving you a pumped look(creatine no2 ect..) but if you think your gonna actually build any muscle because of them your fooling yourself.

Some herbs will bring  your test into normal range  if your  over 30  and your testes are still funtioning.

You will build some muscle if you have normal hormone levels, no muscle if your below normal, plenty if your above normal ect....

You build your body from your teens to early 20's unless you maintain beyond the norm and have naturally high hormone levels beyond that age window.

[gh15]

friends,,
i prepared 100s of guys and girls for shows,,TRUE BATURALS THAT COULDNT DO HORMONES BECAUSE THEY WERE STILL AFRAID ,,I PREPARED SO MANY AND ITS ALWAYS THE SAME

GUYS ARE 5'11 GO ON STAGE 165LB AT 6% NATURALLY ,,ALWAYS THE SAME NEVER BEEN ANY OTHER WAY ,,THAT INCLUDES MANY GUYS WITH THE POTENTIAL OF BECOMING PROFESSIONALS AND SOME INDEED TURN PROS

THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS NATURAL GO ON STAGE AT:

5'11 165LB 6% IF VERY GOOD GENETIC SKIN TONE LIKE ASIAN  MAYBE 5%

5'9 GO ON STAGE NATURAL 155-160 AT 5-6%

5'7 GO ON STAGE NATURALLY 150-155  AT 5-6%

TRUST ME ON THAT ANYTHING OVER THIS IS NOT NATURAL AT THAT BODY FAT %

SO ...WHEN YOU SEE A FELLA LIKE GETNY TELLIN YOU HE IS 250 BEFORE HE HORMONIZE,,YOU GOTTA ASK YOURSELF THIS : DOES ANYTHING HE SELL GARBAGE? THE ANSWER IS

ABSOLUTELY YES

gh15 approved

[Eisenherz]

What do you mean by asian skin tone?

[Geo]

friends,,
i prepared 100s of guys and girls for shows,,

5'11 165LB 6% IF VERY GOOD GENETIC SKIN TONE LIKE ASIAN  MAYBE 5%

5'9 GO ON STAGE NATURAL 155-160 AT 5-6%

5'7 GO ON STAGE NATURALLY 150-155  AT 5-6%

TRUST ME ON THAT ANYTHING OVER THIS IS NOT NATURAL AT THAT BODY FAT

you left out the fact that you obviously suck as a trainer !

[slayer]

friends,,
i prepared 100s of guys and girls for shows,,TRUE BATURALS THAT COULDNT DO HORMONES BECAUSE THEY WERE STILL AFRAID ,,I PREPARED SO MANY AND ITS ALWAYS THE SAME

GUYS ARE 5'11 GO ON STAGE 165LB AT 6% NATURALLY ,,ALWAYS THE SAME NEVER BEEN ANY OTHER WAY ,,THAT INCLUDES MANY GUYS WITH THE POTENTIAL OF BECOMING PROFESSIONALS AND SOME INDEED TURN PROS

THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS NATURAL GO ON STAGE AT:

5'11 165LB 6% IF VERY GOOD GENETIC SKIN TONE LIKE ASIAN  MAYBE 5%

5'9 GO ON STAGE NATURAL 155-160 AT 5-6%




5'7 GO ON STAGE NATURALLY 150-155  AT 5-6%

TRUST ME ON THAT ANYTHING OVER THIS IS NOT NATURAL AT THAT BODY FAT %

SO ...WHEN YOU SEE A FELLA LIKE GETNY TELLIN YOU HE IS 250 BEFORE HE HORMONIZE,,YOU GOTTA ASK YOURSELF THIS : DOES ANYTHING HE SELL GARBAGE? THE ANSWER IS

ABSOLUTELY YES

gh15 approved

exactly!

[bigmc]

Considering that most veteran bodybuilders use supplements, and most people who are in shape use supplements, your statement is embarrassing.

Some supplements do not work, that is true, but many do.  For people on the go, protein shakes, powders, various supplements work.   

Using something that sounds strange, looks strange and has not been tested might not work for everyone, especially one who things they can take a supplement, and lose weight or get in shape right away.

embarrassing,

show me one video outside of a thinly disguised ad where a pro BB takes a supplement.

you don't look like you have ever stepped inside a gym not hating just pointing out - how would you know.

the supplement industry is a thinly disguised bullshit campain by companies taking money out of the pockets of teenagers who don't know better

[the anabolic mon]

Don't talk shit about Plazmosis! 

[Mars]

sad thing is you first have to spend boatloads of money on it to come to the conclusion its all a load of crap.

[WillGrant]

friends,,
i prepared 100s of guys and girls for shows,,TRUE BATURALS THAT COULDNT DO HORMONES BECAUSE THEY WERE STILL AFRAID ,,I PREPARED SO MANY AND ITS ALWAYS THE SAME

GUYS ARE 5'11 GO ON STAGE 165LB AT 6% NATURALLY ,,ALWAYS THE SAME NEVER BEEN ANY OTHER WAY ,,THAT INCLUDES MANY GUYS WITH THE POTENTIAL OF BECOMING PROFESSIONALS AND SOME INDEED TURN PROS

THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS NATURAL GO ON STAGE AT:

5'11 165LB 6% IF VERY GOOD GENETIC SKIN TONE LIKE ASIAN  MAYBE 5%

5'9 GO ON STAGE NATURAL 155-160 AT 5-6%

5'7 GO ON STAGE NATURALLY 150-155  AT 5-6%

TRUST ME ON THAT ANYTHING OVER THIS IS NOT NATURAL AT THAT BODY FAT %

SO ...WHEN YOU SEE A FELLA LIKE GETNY TELLIN YOU HE IS 250 BEFORE HE HORMONIZE,,YOU GOTTA ASK YOURSELF THIS : DOES ANYTHING HE SELL GARBAGE? THE ANSWER IS

ABSOLUTELY YES

gh15 approved

And you have trained every single human being ever right 

Do you pull these numbers out your ass or what?
Heres some free advice for you as you obviously didnt do to well in school...DNA WE ARE NOT ALL OF THE SAME BLUE PRINT...meaning this numbers you spout out are bull shit.Sure you may have trained naturals to 5'11 165LB 6% but whos to say there arnt guys out there natural who can come in heavier with the same condition at that height..just cos you have shit genetics doesnt mean everyone else does..

WG Approved

[wes]

Creatine Monohydrate
Whey,casein, or milk + egg protein powder
Vitamins
Minerals

At one time,I had an almost unlimited supply of glutamine supplied to me by a reputable company............used high dosages and got zero results.

Most supplements are just hype!!!

[barrettaswine]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, READ FRANCO'S nutrition book!!!!!!!!!! Franco used D-bol, we know that. All he is saying is, you only need "high quality protein" beef,fish, chicken. He also advises (advices) to take high quality vitamin and mineral supplements from a respected supplement manufacturer. NOW, SOLGAR, KAL, TWINLAB are all gmp certified manufacturers. Between multi's and vitamin c, maybe some minerals you are only going to spend maybe $20.00 a month tops!! Not too much eh?? Wake up guys and smell the coffee!!

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

And you have trained every single human being ever right 

Do you pull these numbers out your ass or what?
Heres some free advice for you as you obviously didnt do to well in school...DNA WE ARE NOT ALL OF THE SAME BLUE PRINT...meaning this numbers you spout out are bull shit.Sure you may have trained naturals to 5'11 165LB 6% but whos to say there arnt guys out there natural who can come in heavier with the same condition at that height..just cos you have shit genetics doesnt mean everyone else does..

WG Approved

why mad at god ohfhormones,,

[brent2741]

whey protein is not bullshit!

[3Dkiller]

you wont be mr olympia by using supplements and thats the truth.
99% are bullshit claims and no research. Only thing that will change is your wallet being empty at the end of the month.