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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Butterbean on November 20, 2006, 05:59:51 AM

Title: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 20, 2006, 05:59:51 AM
"The Learning Thread" hopefully will be a vehicle for us to learn more about different religions and beliefs.  The plan is to feature a certain religion/belief system until the thread starts to dry up.  Then another will be chosen (suggestions are welcome).

I would like people of different religion/beliefs to help us learn about them by answering our questions.

Please be respectful on this thread, especially to our educator, and the educator is also expected to be respectful.

Disrespectful posts may to have to be modified or deleted.  Sorry, but the person educating us needs to feel comfortable here.

Also, let's please try to limit our questions to one or two per post.  It'll be easier to answer them that way.

I've already someone knowledgable in satanism to participate in this thread. 

We're ready when you are Count Grishnackh! 
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 20, 2006, 10:59:07 AM
Stella, have you got alzheimers?

We've just had a "Learn about Islam" sticky.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 20, 2006, 01:13:23 PM
Stella, have you got alzheimers?

We've just had a "Learn about Islam" sticky.

Maybe.  But the last post on the Islam thread was Oct 23.  Time for a new belief system :)

Nordic, you may not have been around when we did "Scientology."  It was pretty interesting.



oh....or you are making a joke? ???  sorry, it may be the alzheimers :(
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Nordic Superman on November 20, 2006, 01:37:02 PM
Maybe.  But the last post on the Islam thread was Oct 23.  Time for a new belief system :)

Nordic, you may not have been around when we did "Scientology."  It was pretty interesting.



oh....or you are making a joke? ???  sorry, it may be the alzheimers :(

I don't have much to say about Scientology other than it's a joke.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 20, 2006, 11:47:12 PM
It is good to start from the beginning with the basics of any religion. I guess I am under the assumption that most people on this thread have already done their research on satanism and most other religions, however having come across a great deal of christians who are hesitant to discuss satanism on any level, perhaps feeling it may infiltrate their pure thoughts.... at Stella's request, we'll see where this thread goes (to HELL perhaps).

I've never been taken up by any christian I've offered to read the satanic bible, they won't even touch it. They don't "need to" read it, they know all they need to know, or so they say. I can say I have read a good deal of the bible, both new and old testament. I have nothing to fear from it and it most certainly doesn't cause my own faith to waver.

Perhaps their are some other satanists lurking who would like to join in and offer their experiences or impart some knowledge and truths.

Here are the orginal 9 Satanic statements as given by Anton LaVey

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!


Ok, bible beaters, time to throw your worthless, manipulated 10 commandments into the fire !
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 21, 2006, 06:03:28 AM
Hi Count G. and thanks for helping us to learn about your belief system.

1) What is a "psychic vampire?"

2) Several of the statements by LaVey use the words "instead of."  Are the subsequent words in the statements referring to Christianity?  If so, do you think this gives credence to Christianity?

3) Other than Christianity and Judaism, do other belief systems present the devil as a real being?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: DK II on November 21, 2006, 06:10:38 AM
Hi Count G. and thanks for helping us to learn about your belief system.

1) What is a "psychic vampire?"

2) Several of the statements by LaVey use the words "instead of."  Are the subsequent words in the statements referring to Christianity?  If so, do you think this gives credence to Christianity?

3) Other than Christianity and Judaism, do other belief systems present the devil as a real being?

haahaa, are you really trying to be serious?

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 21, 2006, 06:34:41 AM
haahaa, are you really trying to be serious?



yes, why?

What's a psychic vampire DonkeyKong?  I don't think the Count is online yet.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: sandycoosworth on November 21, 2006, 07:05:52 AM
It is good to start from the beginning with the basics of any religion. I guess I am under the assumption that most people on this thread have already done their research on satanism and most other religions, however having come across a great deal of christians who are hesitant to discuss satanism on any level, perhaps feeling it may infiltrate their pure thoughts.... at Stella's request, we'll see where this thread goes (to HELL perhaps).

I've never been taken up by any christian I've offered to read the satanic bible, they won't even touch it. They don't "need to" read it, they know all they need to know, or so they say. I can say I have read a good deal of the bible, both new and old testament. I have nothing to fear from it and it most certainly doesn't cause my own faith to waver.

Perhaps their are some other satanists lurking who would like to join in and offer their experiences or impart some knowledge and truths.

Here are the orginal 9 Satanic statements as given by Anton LaVey

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!


Ok, bible beaters, time to throw your worthless, manipulated 10 commandments into the fire !


Good Post

Leaving aside the bullshit rituals you see on tv, satanism is really nothing more than existential utilitarianism and to me is more of a code of ethics(or lack thereof) than a religion
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: DK II on November 21, 2006, 12:22:30 PM
yes, why?

What's a psychic vampire DonkeyKong?  I don't think the Count is online yet.

haha, that's why i asked.

psychic vampire, lmao.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 21, 2006, 09:16:42 PM
Hi Count G. and thanks for helping us to learn about your belief system.

1) What is a "psychic vampire?"

2) Several of the statements by LaVey use the words "instead of."  Are the subsequent words in the statements referring to Christianity?  If so, do you think this gives credence to Christianity?

3) Other than Christianity and Judaism, do other belief systems present the devil as a real being?

These are good questions DonkeyKong...

1) A psychic vampire can really be defined 2 ways "now". The past few years, the subculture of people who really believe they ARE vampiric, have broken this down into sanguinarius (blood needy) vampires and psi (or psychic) vampires, who feed off of the psychic energy of others.

I believe LaVey was referring to psychic vampires in the context of people who are a waste of your time, energy, thought process. You know the people you've encountered that you just feel a bit dumber after you've talked to them, or the people who are in your circle or inner circle of friends who have no responsibility or accountability for themselves and YOU are the one they are always turning to, or using, to get them out of a situation.

The difference between helping a truly needy friend and constantly enabling a no-account (I had another example on the tip of my tongue, but have lost it).

2) I do not feel they are referring specifically to christians Stella. In my opinion only statement #9 does.

3) I don't know. Satanism does not.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 21, 2006, 09:19:35 PM
Good Post

Leaving aside the bullshit rituals you see on tv, satanism is really nothing more than existential utilitarianism and to me is more of a code of ethics(or lack thereof) than a religion

I would not disagree with this, humanism is probably a simpler term that more people would be able to understand.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 22, 2006, 06:25:47 AM
These are good questions DonkeyKong...

1) A psychic vampire can really be defined 2 ways "now". The past few years, the subculture of people who really believe they ARE vampiric, have broken this down into sanguinarius (blood needy) vampires and psi (or psychic) vampires, who feed off of the psychic energy of others.

I believe LaVey was referring to psychic vampires in the context of people who are a waste of your time, energy, thought process. You know the people you've encountered that you just feel a bit dumber after you've talked to them, or the people who are in your circle or inner circle of friends who have no responsibility or accountability for themselves and YOU are the one they are always turning to, or using, to get them out of a situation.

The difference between helping a truly needy friend and constantly enabling a no-account (I had another example on the tip of my tongue, but have lost it).

2) I do not feel they are referring specifically to christians Stella. In my opinion only statement #9 does.

3) I don't know. Satanism does not.


Thanks for all this info Count.

1)  Maybe I am confused but are you saying that Satanism itself does not recognize Satan as a real being?  If so, why do they choose to call it satanism instead of humanism?  (plus he is named in #9 of the statements)

2)  In #1 of the statements of Satanism, is there a stated "limit" to what self-indulgence is acceptable?  Such as "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else?"  Or is "the sky the limit" meaning something like a secret adulterous affair is acceptable?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: sandycoosworth on November 22, 2006, 08:07:27 AM
I would not disagree with this, humanism is probably a simpler term that more people would be able to understand.



Believe it or not I had no idea thats what humanism ment :-[

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Dos Equis on November 22, 2006, 08:17:17 AM

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!


How does lying lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification? 
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: sandycoosworth on November 22, 2006, 08:31:11 AM
How does lying lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification? 

Your fat wife asks if she look fat. You lie and say she does not.

You feel good emotionally and mentally because you didnt hurt her feelings, and the blow job she gives you as a thankyou takes care of the physical ;)
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: a_joker10 on November 22, 2006, 08:35:58 AM
If Satan is King of Lies, wouldn't his book be lies.

Then if his book is lies, aren't you following deceit.
Satanists put their faith in lies.

How can Satanists figure out what to follow, if you can't discern the truth of your religion from the lies.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: sandycoosworth on November 22, 2006, 08:43:52 AM
Dont think of Satan as a being, thats the same type of childish thought process that leads to prayer, eating jesus crackers, fucking up this life for the next (which aint happening).

Think of Satan as a word to describe the points count laid out in his post.

Anyone who takes any book as "gospel" is a fucking idiot, the Satanic bible included.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: a_joker10 on November 22, 2006, 08:55:14 AM
Then why write a book.

You believe in a concept based on deceit.

I can't trust what you say is true, since you are espousing the words of confirmed liar.

At least science is honest 1+1=2.

For satanists 1+1=3. There is no truth.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: sandycoosworth on November 22, 2006, 10:46:39 AM
1) I never said I was a Satanist or that I believe in anything

2) Satanism is much closer to science than any other belief structure I can think of because it concerns itself primarily with the temporal.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 22, 2006, 08:48:31 PM
Your fat wife asks if she look fat. You lie and say she does not.

You feel good emotionally and mentally because you didnt hurt her feelings, and the blow job she gives you as a thankyou takes care of the physical ;)

hahaha, good analogy   :D

beachbum, you never lied to someone, even trivial, as to spare their feelings, or make them feel better about themselves or a situation? I don't know if anyone hasn't, that would be the true find !
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 22, 2006, 09:06:21 PM
Thanks for all this info Count.

1)  Maybe I am confused but are you saying that Satanism itself does not recognize Satan as a real being?  If so, why do they choose to call it satanism instead of humanism?  (plus he is named in #9 of the statements)

2)  In #1 of the statements of Satanism, is there a stated "limit" to what self-indulgence is acceptable?  Such as "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else?"  Or is "the sky the limit" meaning something like a secret adulterous affair is acceptable?

You're welcome Stella

1) Yes, that's what I'm saying. Satanism as a name, Satan as a figure and the associated symbolism were chosen for the ying/yang effect, for the impact. To christians, what is opposite God, Jesus? Satan, the anti-christ, right? So what would be opposite the christian belief system? Satanism.

In all of the statements, Satan is a representation of all of these things that christianity and christians rebuke. If someone represents all of the sins, they must certainly be influenced or possessed by the devil. I will say that I'm sure there are a significantly higher percentage of people who practice ritual magic that are satanists. But it is not the "Devil" that they are invoking.

2) A secret adulterous affair would most certainly not be a kind gesture to a s/o that has not hurt you in anyway and has given you their trust/love. (#4)  It would be cast in a negative light for sure. Let's compare a christian couple and a satanic couple. A satanic couple who entered into a relationship with the understanding that they can be intimate with whomever they choose, or a specific other person, would not be frowned upon in anyway and be supported 100%.

Now what would happen to a christian couple (or at least they perceived themselves as christian) whom people found out had a couple or a few partners, even though both parties were aware and entered into the relationship accepting of that.
They would be ostracized and reviled most certainly.

The sky would be the limit on self gratification, if it hurt someone else that you loved then it would not be acceptable. I'm pretty sure there is no more "cheating" in a satanic couples lifestyle than a christians. Similar odds I would suspect. Is there more swinger type lifestyles, probably so, though christians do this, they just tend to keep it quiet.    :D
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 22, 2006, 09:08:25 PM
Believe it or not I had no idea thats what humanism ment :-[

You made a good call on it though.   :)
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 22, 2006, 09:10:12 PM
If Satan is King of Lies, wouldn't his book be lies.

Then if his book is lies, aren't you following deceit.
Satanists put their faith in lies.

How can Satanists figure out what to follow, if you can't discern the truth of your religion from the lies.

Joker, you are looking at everything from a christians perspective of Satan. Look at Satan from the perspective
that he represents the 9 statements I listed.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 22, 2006, 09:16:04 PM
Anyone who takes any book as "gospel" is a fucking idiot, the Satanic bible included.

Exactly.

The satanic bible is a must read, because it opens up your thought process. It is not
scripture.

Christians fail because ultimately no one can lead a true christian lifestyle as spelled out
in the good book. Of course they are forgived of all sins, if they've accepted jesus as their
lord and saviour.

The problem with this, is that todays christians interpret this as do whatever you please,
because you are forgiven in the end.

I have no problem in saying that probably 2/3 of christians actually adhere to a more stringent
following of LaVey's book as they do the bible. Probably a conservative estimate to!
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: a_joker10 on November 23, 2006, 07:43:59 AM
Exactly.

The satanic bible is a must read, because it opens up your thought process. It is not
scripture.

Christians fail because ultimately no one can lead a true christian lifestyle as spelled out
in the good book. Of course they are forgived of all sins, if they've accepted jesus as their
lord and saviour.

The problem with this, is that todays christians interpret this as do whatever you please,
because you are forgiven in the end.

I have no problem in saying that probably 2/3 of christians actually adhere to a more stringent
following of LaVey's book as they do the bible. Probably a conservative estimate to!

I do not understand Satanism, it seems to be by your definition Satanism is some type of twisted combination of hedonism and spirit worship

Your understanding of Christianity is deeply flawed.

Christians try to emulate the decisions of Christ. The statement what would Jesus do? Implies this.
Christians know no one is perfect, however striving to be perfect is an award in itself.

Just because someone claims that they are Christian doesn't make it so.
Being a Christian is a contract with Christ.
The church is there to help you maintain your contract with Christ, through stewardship, prayer, and love.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: loco on November 23, 2006, 05:16:29 PM
The problem with this, is that todays christians interpret this as do whatever you please,
because you are forgiven in the end.

Count,
Your knowledge of Satanism is very interesting, but your knowledge of Christianity is flawed.  I am a Christian, and I'm telling you that the statement above is false.  Any person who calls himself/herself a Christian and has this interpretation of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ is not a true a Christian and is not truly saved.

I have no problem in saying that probably 2/3 of christians actually adhere to a more stringent
following of LaVey's book as they do the bible. Probably a conservative estimate to!

This is false too.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: sandycoosworth on November 23, 2006, 09:19:06 PM
I think what the count ment was xtians know they are not supposed to sin, yet "jebus forgives sins" so they essentially do whatever the fuck they want and just guilt themselves to feel pius after :)
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 23, 2006, 11:13:16 PM
Count,
Your knowledge of Satanism is very interesting, but your knowledge of Christianity is flawed.  I am a Christian, and I'm telling you that the statement above is false.  Any person who calls himself/herself a Christian and has this interpretation of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ is not a true a Christian and is not truly saved.

loco and joker, I know the true definition of a christian and the lifestyle they should lead and the example they should set.

When I say "todays christians" I am not referring to everyone in a nutshell. I am referring to the fact that even though there are a lot of self-proclaimed christians, there ARE VERY FEW ACTUAL CHRISTIANS WHO LEAD A CHRISTIAN LIFESTYLE. 

The majority of these "christians" are quick to tell you they do though...

loco, you, joker, Stella and others on this board may actually be good christians and lead a true christian lifestyle. I'd be shocked if more than 1 or 2 of you, but it's possible. I am just saying in my life experience, which is very broad, I haven't come across many, if any true christians. Alot of lip service, but not alot of action.

I don't want to hear that someone is christian, I want to observe it !

The lady I work with is probably the closest I've personally met in my travels and you can re-read my definition of her and make your own conclusions. Great lady, proud to have as a friend, but by my definition, falls short, purposely so, of being a true christian person.






Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 23, 2006, 11:17:19 PM
I think what the count ment was xtians know they are not supposed to sin, yet "jebus forgives sins" so they essentially do whatever the f**k they want and just guilt themselves to feel pius after :)

thanks for the interpretation   :)

loco, this is what I'm saying about 99% of "christians"...you know, the self-proclaimed kind that sit in church and think about how they'd like to have the "brother" sitting next to him's wife sit on his face kind.

Of course I'm not talking about a true christian person, but then again we are still looking for him or her.  Well, at least I am.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 23, 2006, 11:19:23 PM
Just because someone claims that they are Christian doesn't make it so.

Now you are following me here joker. This encapsulates about 99% unfortunately   :-\

Reminds me of what AAA says about biker's and the 1%'ers   lol
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Dos Equis on November 23, 2006, 11:21:53 PM
hahaha, good analogy   :D

beachbum, you never lied to someone, even trivial, as to spare their feelings, or make them feel better about themselves or a situation? I don't know if anyone hasn't, that would be the true find !

Yes I have.  But I'm not talking about the rare instances where white lies are told to spare someone's feelings, I'm talking about the lies told to cheat someone out of money, to steal, etc.  Those kinds of lies always eventually lead to trouble, not physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Dos Equis on November 23, 2006, 11:22:35 PM
Dont think of Satan as a being, thats the same type of childish thought process that leads to prayer, eating jesus crackers, fucking up this life for the next (which aint happening).

Think of Satan as a word to describe the points count laid out in his post.

Anyone who takes any book as "gospel" is a fucking idiot, the Satanic bible included.

Absurd.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 23, 2006, 11:51:52 PM
I'm talking about the lies told to cheat someone out of money, to steal, etc.  Those kinds of lies always eventually lead to trouble, not physical, mental, or emotional gratification.

I agree 100%.

Would I lie, cheat or steal from an honest, hard working, "good" person? Not on my life.

Would I lie, cheat or steal from a criminal or someone who has done myself, my friends
or family wrong? Absolutely.

This is not a christian way, a christian would forgive and turn the other cheek. I would not.

Statements #4 and 5.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Dos Equis on November 24, 2006, 12:01:54 AM
I agree 100%.

Would I lie, cheat or steal from an honest, hard working, "good" person? Not on my life.

Would I lie, cheat or steal from a criminal or someone who has done myself, my friends
or family wrong? Absolutely.

This is not a christian way, a christian would forgive and turn the other cheek. I would not.

Statements #4 and 5.



Actually, a Christian, like me, would seek justice without lying, cheating, or stealing.  I would call the police, press charges, testify, seek restitution, etc.  And I'd pray for the person who committed the crime.  That's the Christian way. 
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 24, 2006, 12:29:07 AM
Actually, a Christian, like me, would seek justice without lying, cheating, or stealing.  I would call the police, press charges, testify, seek restitution, etc.  And I'd pray for the person who committed the crime.  That's the Christian way. 

Ok, no problem. But you are talking alot of legal situations here.

People fucking others over most of the time doesn't fall under any legal umbrella.

But I get your point.   ;)

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 24, 2006, 07:51:43 AM
loco and joker, I know the true definition of a christian and the lifestyle they should lead and the example they should set.


Really, the biblical definition of a Christian is (abbreviated version) someone who recognizes their need for a savior and has accepted Jesus Christ as such.

It's all over the bible that doing good works or following the law do not get you into heaven. 

Does God want us to live in a specific way?  Yes.  Does any Christian  on earth live up to 100% the way we are supposed to live?  No.  Do some Christians try to live that way 100% of the time?  Probably yes.  Do most Christians try?  Not in my opinion (me included :( )


ARE VERY FEW ACTUAL CHRISTIANS WHO LEAD A CHRISTIAN LIFESTYLE. 


 

Your conception of a "Christian LIfestyle," I believe, is unattainable by anyone.  To reiterate, we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works, so that no one can boast. (Eph 2:8,9).     Someone saved by grace is a Christian.  If Mother Theresa didn't accept Christ as Savior, she was not a Christian as described by the bible.

ARE VERY FEW ACTUAL CHRISTIANS WHO LEAD A CHRISTIAN LIFESTYLE. 

The majority of these "christians" are quick to tell you they do though...


I know a few people like this.  Although I believe they are saved, they seem pretty judgemental and pious and holier-than-thou.  They are aquaintances as I could not bring myself to spend enough time w/them to call them friends.  One even tried to tell me she never sinned after she got saved!  OH BROTHER! 



loco, you, joker, Stella and others on this board may actually be good christians and lead a true christian lifestyle. I'd be shocked if more than 1 or 2 of you, but it's possible.



Well, the 1 or 2 doesn't include me because I screw up everyday. :-[





Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: sandycoosworth on November 24, 2006, 08:03:54 AM
thanks for the interpretation   :)

loco, this is what I'm saying about 99% of "christians"...you know, the self-proclaimed kind that sit in church and think about how they'd like to have the "brother" sitting next to him's wife sit on his face kind.

Of course I'm not talking about a true christian person, but then again we are still looking for him or her.  Well, at least I am.

I dont know any xtians who embrace the scum of the earth, which is exactly what Jesus did. They look down upon prostitutes, porn stars, drug addicts etc. and bend over backwards trying to be a moral comapss, but none of them practice one of the most central tennants of xtianity, which is judge not.

jebus was actually a progressive shit distrubing f**cker who gave everyone the time of day (I should say the stories of jebus), too bad everyone who followed in his footsteps is a knob :(
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: a_joker10 on November 24, 2006, 09:22:14 AM
Quote
Well, the 1 or 2 doesn't include me because I screw up everyday. Embarrassed
I don't claim to be a good Christian.
My relationship is with Jesus alone.
He alone knows all the sins I have done or will do.

But this is about Satanism.
Do Satanist congregate anywhere,
are there Satanic services,
do Satanists have special days of remembrance,
do Satanist have their own Calender,
are the special rites that must be performed before you are considered a Satanist,
How long has the Satanic movement been around for,
Why would sinning be considered a good thing.





Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: a_joker10 on November 24, 2006, 09:48:09 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism)

Fundamental individualism

Satanism is often mistaken as being a religion that encourages cruelty and irresponsible behaviour, but LaVey's brand is very different. Central is the idea inherited from Nietzsche that an individual must enforce his own meaning on life and rise above the perceived conformity of the masses. The Satanist is seen as equivalent to Nietzsche's Übermensch; LaVey claimed "Satanists are born, not made" and that "[Satanists] have a disease called independence that needs to be recognised just like alcoholism." There is a libertarian element here; diversity is encouraged, everyone is expected to discover their own sexuality, chart their own personality, and decide their own ambitions in life. In this stress on individuality, Satanism is considered a "Left-Hand Path" religion.

God in Satanism

The Satanist does not believe in either the Judeo-Christian or Islamic ideas of God; the function of God is performed and satisfied by the Satanist him/herself. That is, the needs of worship, ritual, and religious/spiritual focus are directed, effectively, inwards towards the Satanist, as opposed to outwards, towards God.

LaVey proposes instead that as all gods are creations of man, worship of an external deity is worship of its creator by proxy. He suggests, then, that the rational Satanist should instead internalize his god, and therefore worship himself; hence the Satanic maxim, "I am my own god."

It follows that Satanism shuns the idea of belief in all other deities as well, including, to the surprise of many, Satan. Satan is viewed as a literary archetype, along the lines of John Milton's epic hero. This archetype is viewed not as a negative figure, but as a positive image of pride and mastery in opposition to servitude, faith, and humility.

Belief in any such externalized deities is generally considered grounds for excluding someone as a Satanist, and devil worship in particular is considered nothing more than a misguided inversion of Christianity.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism#Major_concepts_in_existentialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism#Major_concepts_in_existentialism)

Major concepts in existentialism

Existentialism differentiates itself from the modern Western rationalist tradition of philosophers such as Descartes and Husserl in rejecting the idea that the most certain and primary reality is rational consciousness. Descartes believed humans could doubt all existence, but could not will away or doubt the thinking consciousness, whose reality is therefore more certain than any other reality. Existentialism decisively rejects this argument, asserting instead that as conscious beings, humans would always find themselves already in a world, a prior context and a history that is given to consciousness, and that humans cannot think away that world. It is inherent and indubitably linked to consciousness. In other words, the ultimate, certain, indubitable reality is not thinking consciousness but, according to Heidegger, "being in the world". This is a radicalization of the notion of intentionality that comes from Brentano and Husserl, which asserts that, even in its barest form, consciousness is always conscious of something.

On the existence of God, Sartre, unlike Kierkegaard, denies the existence of God. Sartre argues that without God, there is no higher power to define man. However, there are versions of existentialism that are religious. Theological existentialism as advocated by philosophers and theologians like Paul Tillich, Gabriel Marcel, and Martin Buber posits God's existence, as well as accepting many tenets of atheistic existentialism. Belief in God is a personal choice made on the basis of a passion, of faith, an observation or experience. Just as atheistic existentialists can freely choose not to believe, theistic existentialists can freely choose to believe in God and could, despite one's doubt, have faith that God exists and that God is good.

A third type of existentialism is agnostic. Again, it is a matter of choice to be agnostic. The agnostic existentialist makes no claim to know, or not know, if there is a "greater picture" in play; rather, he simply recognizes that the greatest truth is that which he chooses to act upon. The agnostic existentialist feels that to know the "greater picture", whether there is one or not, is impossible for human minds--or if it is not impossible, that at least he has not found it yet. Like Christian existentialists, the agnostic believes existence is subjective. However one feels about the issue, through the agnostic existentialist's perspective, the act of finding knowledge of the existence of God often has little value because he feels it to be impossible, and/or believes it to be useless.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_existentialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_existentialism)

The Bible as an existential writing

An existential reading of the Bible demands that the reader recognize that he is an existing subject studying the words God is communicating to him personally. This is in contrast to looking at a collection of "truths" which are outside and unrelated to the reader.[3] Such a reader is not obligated to follow the commandments as if an external agent is forcing them upon him, but as though they are inside him and guiding him from inside. This is the task Kierkegaard takes up when he asks: "Who has the more difficult task: the teacher who lectures on earnest things a meteor's distance from everyday life-or the learner who should put it to use?"[4]. Existentially speaking, the Bible doesn't become an authority in a person's life until they authorize the Bible to be their personal authority.



Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: loco on November 24, 2006, 12:07:55 PM
loco, this is what I'm saying about 99% of "christians"...you know, the self-proclaimed kind that sit in church and think about how they'd like to have the "brother" sitting next to him's wife sit on his face kind.
Of course I'm not talking about a true christian person, but then again we are still looking for him or her.  Well, at least I am.

Count,
Then I apologize for saying that your knowledge of Christianity is flawed, and I do agree with you...

...click where it says "Quote from: loco" and read this if you have not read it yet:

Not everyone who claims to be a Christian really is one
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Dos Equis on November 24, 2006, 12:48:39 PM
"Not everyone who claims to be a Christian really is one."  True.  And I think genuine Christians don't have to go around telling people.  Their words and actions on a day-to-day basis speak volumes. 
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: loco on November 24, 2006, 01:45:15 PM
"Not everyone who claims to be a Christian really is one."  True.  And I think genuine Christians don't have to go around telling people.  Their words and actions on a day-to-day basis speak volumes. 

Very true.  This is why I don't have the bumper sticker or the t-shirt...not that I'm condemning those who do have these.    ;D
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 24, 2006, 11:37:26 PM
Very true.  This is why I don't have the bumper sticker or the t-shirt...not that I'm condemning those who do have these.    ;D

Or the "fish" on the bumper  hahaha
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 24, 2006, 11:40:24 PM
Does God want us to live in a specific way?  Yes.  Does any Christian  on earth live up to 100% the way we are supposed to live?  No.  Do some Christians try to live that way 100% of the time?  Probably yes.  Do most Christians try?  Not in my opinion (me included :( )

Why don't you try Stella?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 24, 2006, 11:44:03 PM
Your conception of a "Christian LIfestyle," I believe, is unattainable by anyone. 

Well, I'm not so sure that it is unattainable as much as it is extremely difficult (as it was probably intended). It's human nature to want to do what you want to do, to self-gratify, so I guess it is what it is....pretty much unattainable to a mere mortal.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 24, 2006, 11:45:20 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism)

Fundamental individualism

Satanism is often mistaken as being a religion that encourages cruelty and irresponsible behaviour, but LaVey's brand is very different. Central is the idea inherited from Nietzsche that an individual must enforce his own meaning on life and rise above the perceived conformity of the masses. The Satanist is seen as equivalent to Nietzsche's Übermensch; LaVey claimed "Satanists are born, not made" and that "[Satanists] have a disease called independence that needs to be recognised just like alcoholism." There is a libertarian element here; diversity is encouraged, everyone is expected to discover their own sexuality, chart their own personality, and decide their own ambitions in life. In this stress on individuality, Satanism is considered a "Left-Hand Path" religion.

God in Satanism

The Satanist does not believe in either the Judeo-Christian or Islamic ideas of God; the function of God is performed and satisfied by the Satanist him/herself. That is, the needs of worship, ritual, and religious/spiritual focus are directed, effectively, inwards towards the Satanist, as opposed to outwards, towards God.

LaVey proposes instead that as all gods are creations of man, worship of an external deity is worship of its creator by proxy. He suggests, then, that the rational Satanist should instead internalize his god, and therefore worship himself; hence the Satanic maxim, "I am my own god."

It follows that Satanism shuns the idea of belief in all other deities as well, including, to the surprise of many, Satan. Satan is viewed as a literary archetype, along the lines of John Milton's epic hero. This archetype is viewed not as a negative figure, but as a positive image of pride and mastery in opposition to servitude, faith, and humility.

Belief in any such externalized deities is generally considered grounds for excluding someone as a Satanist, and devil worship in particular is considered nothing more than a misguided inversion of Christianity.

This is very well written
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 24, 2006, 11:51:01 PM
I know a few people like this.  Although I believe they are saved, they seem pretty judgemental and pious and holier-than-thou.  They are aquaintances as I could not bring myself to spend enough time w/them to call them friends.  One even tried to tell me she never sinned after she got saved!  OH BROTHER! 


Well, the 1 or 2 doesn't include me because I screw up everyday. :-[


Oh yes, acquaintance is a VERY big word with me also as I hold "friend" in extremely high regard.

Screwup?  Hmm, well there is always room for a convert. You know Stella, most would've taken Darth Vader up on his offer to rule the galaxy, unlike that sniveling Skywalker !   :D
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 25, 2006, 12:02:45 AM
Joker is right, on with Satanism:

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.


Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 25, 2006, 10:58:28 AM
Do some Christians try to live that way 100% of the time?  Probably yes.  Do most Christians try?  Not in my opinion (me included :( )






Why don't you try Stella?

I do try, but not 100% of the time.   Maybe it because I'm lazy, or unfocused, or any number or other reasons.  :-\



Screwup?  Hmm, well there is always room for a convert.


You know Stella, most would've taken Darth Vader up on his offer to rule the galaxy, unlike that sniveling Skywalker !   :D
Thanks for the offer but I'm going to have to decline ;D


I'm too lazy to rule the galaxy :'(



4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.





I don't know why this made me laugh (maybe because I just hosted the family Thanksgiving dinner :-\ ). 



5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.





What is the "mating signal?"
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 25, 2006, 09:08:40 PM

What is the "mating signal?"


Maybe it has to do with rule 6?   :)



Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Anabolic Outlaw on November 26, 2006, 10:41:02 AM

It is good to start from the beginning with the basics of any religion.


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (KJV)


...having come across a great deal of christians who are hesitant to discuss satanism on any level, perhaps feeling it may infiltrate their pure thoughts....


Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
 - 2 Timothy 4:2 (KJV)


I can say I have read a good deal of the bible, both new and old testament. I have nothing to fear from it and it most certainly doesn't cause my own faith to waver.


The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. - Proverbs 1:7 (KJV)


Ok, bible beaters, time to throw your worthless, manipulated 10 commandments into the fire!


I have posted the 10 Commandments in this article: www.musclemissions.org/public/124.cfm

Yours In Christ,
Dennis L. Bates
www.MuscleMissions.org


Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Anabolic Outlaw on November 26, 2006, 11:13:24 AM

I believe LaVey was referring to psychic vampires in the context of people who are a waste of your time, energy, thought process.


For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
 
And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
 
Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? - James 2:2-4 (KJV)


You know the people you've encountered that you just feel a bit dumber after you've talked to them, or the people who are in your circle or inner circle of friends who have no responsibility or accountability for themselves and YOU are the one they are always turning to, or using, to get them out of a situation.


Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.
Say not unto thy neighbour, Go, and come again, and to morrow I will give; when thou hast it by thee.
- Proverbs 3:27,28 (KJV)

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: sandycoosworth on November 26, 2006, 11:19:53 AM
Quoting the bible is much better than actually thinking about an issue ;D
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Anabolic Outlaw on November 26, 2006, 12:22:29 PM

...you never lied to someone, even trivial, as to spare their feelings, or make them feel better about themselves or a situation? I don't know if anyone hasn't, that would be the true find !


Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. - Hebrews 4:14,15 (KJV)


So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. - Hebrews 9:28 (KJV)


In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. - John 14:2,3 (KJV)

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Anabolic Outlaw on November 26, 2006, 12:23:56 PM

...that would be the true find !


Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
- Matthew 7:7,8 (KJV)

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Anabolic Outlaw on November 26, 2006, 12:31:26 PM
Quoting the bible is much better than actually thinking about an issue


For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
- 1 Corinthians 2:16 (KJV)

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Anabolic Outlaw on November 26, 2006, 01:01:34 PM

Christians fail because ultimately no one can lead a true christian lifestyle as spelled out
in the good book.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: - Romans 3:10 (KJV)

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Anabolic Outlaw on November 26, 2006, 01:04:29 PM

I don't want to hear that someone is christian, I want to observe it !

The lady I work with is probably the closest I've personally met in my travels and you can re-read my definition of her and make your own conclusions. Great lady, proud to have as a friend, but by my definition, falls short, purposely so, of being a true christian person.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God - Romans 3:23 (KJV)

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 28, 2006, 05:58:26 AM


7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.




Good morning Count.

To what are they referring w/"the power of magic?"
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 28, 2006, 10:23:29 PM
Good morning Count.

To what are they referring w/"the power of magic?"


Sorry, Anabolic Outlaw burned me out on this thread quoting scripture.

Yes, they are talking about magic, magic. I really don't know if you would refer to it as white magic, black magic, the dark arts. I guess christians would refer to it all as black magic.

Even though, as you've found out, Satanism is based on a very honourable system of morality and ethics, there is a certain aspect within a portion of the religion that embrace the spiritual side and practice ritual magic.

There is also a certain percentage who believe in the Elder gods, the existence of good and evil, the power of evil. It is definitely not considered Satanic nor does it acknowledge the existence of "Satan", but the belief that good and evil do exist and these forces can be manipulated to ones advantage.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on November 29, 2006, 06:41:28 AM


Even though, as you've found out, Satanism is based on a very honourable system of morality and ethics, there is a certain aspect within a portion of the religion that embrace the spiritual side and practice ritual magic.




Do you?  What kinds of rituals do you/they perform? 




There is also a certain percentage who believe in the Elder gods, the existence of good and evil, the power of evil. It is definitely not considered Satanic nor does it acknowledge the existence of "Satan", but the belief that good and evil do exist and these forces can be manipulated to ones advantage.


Are you in the percentage that believe in "Elder gods?"  Do people "pray" to them? 

Is the way that people believe they can manipulate the forces through ritual magic?

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on November 29, 2006, 06:48:35 PM
Do you?  What kinds of rituals do you/they perform? 

Are you in the percentage that believe in "Elder gods?"  Do people "pray" to them? 

Is the way that people believe they can manipulate the forces through ritual magic?


Do I believe in elder gods....I can't say with conviction one way or another as I have not been able to devote enough time to research. My inclination is to say that in some respect, yes...though maybe not as Lovecraft spelled out, but maybe so.

They are not prayed to or worshipped, they supposedly are indifferent to humankind but can be manipulated through ritual magic. (This is a stretch for me to just accept).

You know, I am more torn on this than any aspect. I really have not researched Lovecraft enough to know all I would like to know. He is conveniently shrugged off as purely a fiction writer, but I am not so sure about that.

I would have liked to become more actively involved with this aspect, out of curiousity, not out of being a satanist, to form more of an opinion or perhaps see things that many are not permitted or able to see, but my life isn't conducive to that right now and may never be, so unfortunately it is probably something I won't be able to learn about through first hand experience.

So without any further learning on this subject, through 1st hand participation/observation, I'm inclined to not believe in magic, or any particular way to manipulate or control good or evil.

I've been wrong before.

I mean, I never would've guessed there was an exclusive christian bdsm group. I could've found myself a nice christian girl there....     :)





Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Anabolic Outlaw on November 30, 2006, 10:07:16 PM

Sorry, Anabolic Outlaw burned me out on this thread quoting scripture.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword,
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
- Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Camel Jockey on December 01, 2006, 04:00:46 PM
Are the dudes that wear black and have a ton of piercings follows of satan? This is a legit question, so Nordic, please don't reply.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 03, 2006, 04:07:10 PM
Count, do you believe in an afterlife?  If so, what is your conception?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 03, 2006, 05:02:41 PM
Count, do you believe in an afterlife?  If so, what is your conception?

No, I don't.

I've heard some compelling past-life regression stories though.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Parker on December 06, 2006, 03:27:52 PM
No, I don't.

I've heard some compelling past-life regression stories though.


So what do think "Spirits" are. Do think that they are just in another realm of existance?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 07, 2006, 07:05:29 PM
So what do think "Spirits" are. Do think that they are just in another realm of existance?

I don't know, it is a good topic for discussion. I can't say I'm a believer or dis-believer at this point.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 08, 2006, 05:51:04 AM


11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.



Count, in the above does "destroy" mean "kill?"
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Parker on December 08, 2006, 03:39:19 PM
I don't know, it is a good topic for discussion. I can't say I'm a believer or dis-believer at this point.

I had a cousin who could see them when she was little. You know, the whole, "Grandma say's Hi", type, except Grandma is dead. But as it says in the Bible to be wary of those who see spirits, and some go further to say that those people are going to hell. I think that when we are young we are more open to other realms, the Spirit Realm, so to speak, which I believe is another dimension of existance. Maybe "String Theory" can prove this correct.

Anyway, in the Spirit Realsm, there are Good Spirits, Bad Spirits, and the in between ambivilent spirits.

So to me, if one is good and dies, there spirit is such, and the same with the bad. Not really a Heaven or Hell, I guess they just exist. :-\ How does Satanism touch on the soul?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: scooter on December 09, 2006, 10:08:32 PM
my biggest problem with christianity is that the bible is filled with all sorts of back talk such as turn the other cheek and then it says an eye for an eye. the bible dosent make sense to me it can be manulipulated to say whatever point the person is trying to get across. I dont understand this shit. The difference between satanism and christianity is that in satanism you are your own god. You dont have to give yourself to some higher power(that may not even exsist). I have looked into the church of satan and it is actually a pretty cool religion. The reason I looked is because I saw it under you avatar and wanted to for a while but never remembered. Before you guys come in and quote scripture you should check it out(anabolic outlaw)
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 10, 2006, 08:07:18 PM
Count, in the above does "destroy" mean "kill?"

Not exclusively, but I would imagine in some extreme instances it could apply, if you feared for yourself or others safety.

Destroy could be to embarrass, humiliate as well as something physically.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 10, 2006, 08:12:26 PM
I had a cousin who could see them when she was little. You know, the whole, "Grandma say's Hi", type, except Grandma is dead. But as it says in the Bible to be wary of those who see spirits, and some go further to say that those people are going to hell. I think that when we are young we are more open to other realms, the Spirit Realm, so to speak, which I believe is another dimension of existence. Maybe "String Theory" can prove this correct.

Anyway, in the Spirit Realsm, there are Good Spirits, Bad Spirits, and the in between ambivilent spirits.

So to me, if one is good and dies, there spirit is such, and the same with the bad. Not really a Heaven or Hell, I guess they just exist. :-\ How does Satanism touch on the soul?

Parker, when it comes to spirits, I'm somewhat inclined to think something exists, but quite honestly unless I see it first hand I will never believe in it. Pretty much my same view of afterlife, I'd like to think possibly something exists, be it good, bad or whatever.

Reminds me of Houdini, who told his wife and friends, IF there is an afterlife, he will absolutely find a way to communicate this to them. No one heard from Harry again, despite yearly seances.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 10, 2006, 08:18:35 PM
my biggest problem with christianity is that the bible is filled with all sorts of back talk such as turn the other cheek and then it says an eye for an eye. the bible dosent make sense to me it can be manulipulated to say whatever point the person is trying to get across. I dont understand this shit. The difference between satanism and christianity is that in satanism you are your own god. You dont have to give yourself to some higher power(that may not even exsist). I have looked into the church of satan and it is actually a pretty cool religion. The reason I looked is because I saw it under you avatar and wanted to for a while but never remembered. Before you guys come in and quote scripture you should check it out(anabolic outlaw)

Well done scooter. The more you dig deeper into christianity and have contact with the christian community, the more disillusioned you will end up. Not to offend anyone, but strictly in my opinion it is a religion for weak minds. I work with some real self proclaimed "bible beaters" and they are so far from christian people it is actually laughable, yet they are the last one to see this.

One is even a pastor in her church. I know the only reason she is there is because her life turned out empty and alone and it is the only thing left for her to turn to for acceptance. She is FAR from a true christian person at heart.



Once a logical person delves into satanism, they usually embrace it. I never looked back.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: scooter on December 10, 2006, 08:29:19 PM
Well done scooter. The more you dig deeper into christianity and have contact with the christian community, the more disillusioned you will end up. Not to offend anyone, but strictly in my opinion it is a religion for weak minds. I work with some real self proclaimed "bible beaters" and they are so far from christian people it is actually laughable, yet they are the last one to see this.

One is even a pastor in her church. I know the only reason she is there is because her life turned out empty and alone and it is the only thing left for her to turn to for acceptance. She is FAR from a true christian person at heart.



Once a logical person delves into satanism, they usually embrace it. I never looked back.

I am a salesman in a retail store the older guys are mostly christian these salesman are some of the most unethical people I have ever met. They use people to make money. I do it to but I dont claim to be a good chritian person. Most of the christians I know are hypocrits at least if I fuck up I can admit it, I dont tell people not to do something and then do the same thing.Most christians are normally weak minded people that need something to belive in because they dont belive in themselves.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 10, 2006, 09:14:28 PM
I am a salesman in a retail store the older guys are mostly christian these salesman are some of the most unethical people I have ever met. They use people to make money. I do it to but I dont claim to be a good chritian person. Most of the christians I know are hypocrits at least if I f**k up I can admit it, I dont tell people not to do something and then do the same thing.Most christians are normally weak minded people that need something to belive in because they dont belive in themselves.

hahaha, ya, you know the old saying. When you meet someone that says they are christian, hold on to your wallet !  :D

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Dos Equis on December 10, 2006, 09:24:04 PM
Well done scooter. The more you dig deeper into christianity and have contact with the christian community, the more disillusioned you will end up. Not to offend anyone, but strictly in my opinion it is a religion for weak minds. I work with some real self proclaimed "bible beaters" and they are so far from christian people it is actually laughable, yet they are the last one to see this.


I think it's quite the opposite.  Christianity is a thinking man's religion.  The deeper you dig, the more you understand, and the better your life becomes.  I actually think the weak minded people are those who quit, or refuse to investigate, because they would rather do whatever feels good at the moment and don't want to be handcuffed with guidelines for their life and/or lifestyle.  There is some sacrifice involved when you become a Christian. 

True Christians are very happy in my experience.   
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: scooter on December 10, 2006, 10:13:35 PM
I dont think so. I think that modern christainity is for a weak people. Like I said people who dont belive in themselves so they need something else to belive in something higher. and that is fine with me I just belive in myself more than anything else I think that you need to empower yourself, worship yourself etc.. I think that self gratifacation is a great thing like they say you only live once. I make the most of everyday I do the best for myself, family and friends. I feel good about that.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 11, 2006, 07:19:50 AM
I am a salesman in a retail store the older guys are mostly christian these salesman are some of the most unethical people I have ever met.

I used to work for an Apostolic Christian who wanted me to lie to a customer in order to make a sale. 

I'm glad I didn't hold him as my example of how someone should live and act as a follower of Christ.  No one can live up Christ's standards but Christ Himself.


They use people to make money. I do it to but I dont claim to be a good chritian person. Most of the christians I know are hypocrits at least if I f**k up I can admit it,


Do you hold Christians to a higher standard than you hold yourself?  You admit here that you sometimes "f**k up."  Do you think Christians being hypocrites is not them "f**king up?"  If so, do you think their "f**king up" is worse than your "f**king up?"  If so, why? 


Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 11, 2006, 07:25:02 AM



Reminds me of Houdini, who told his wife and friends, IF there is an afterlife, he will absolutely find a way to communicate this to them. No one heard from Harry again, despite yearly seances.



Count, do you believe that seances actually "work?"

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: scooter on December 11, 2006, 03:28:53 PM

Do you hold Christians to a higher standard than you hold yourself?  You admit here that you sometimes "f**k up."  Do you think Christians being hypocrites is not them "f**king up?"  If so, do you think their "f**king up" is worse than your "f**king up?"  If so, why? 




no not at all but I can admit that I fuck up and they cannot they think that they are doing nothing wrong. When you call them on it they make up some excuse for why its different for them that you. I am not the one saying that I am a good christian they are.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 11, 2006, 06:17:59 PM
When you call them on it they make up some excuse for why its different for them that you. I am not the one saying that I am a good christian they are.

I agree that would be very irritating. :P
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 11, 2006, 09:36:36 PM
no not at all but I can admit that I f**k up and they cannot they think that they are doing nothing wrong. When you call them on it they make up some excuse for why its different for them that you. I am not the one saying that I am a good christian they are.

Exactly scooter.

These christians (I use this term loosely) have an excuse list longer than Crystal Gayle's hair.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 11, 2006, 09:41:09 PM
Count, do you believe that seances actually "work?"


I've seen tables move and rise off the floor, felt scratching on them, but I'm more inclined to think it was from energy as opposed to something else, but who knows. Nothing else out of the ordinary happened during or after.

I'd have to see something of some kind convincing to believe in spirits, good or evil. Like I said, it's one area I wish I could delve into a bit more.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Bast000 on December 11, 2006, 09:44:20 PM
Count Grishnackh is doing God's work.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 14, 2006, 06:54:54 AM
I've seen tables move and rise off the floor, felt scratching on them, but I'm more inclined to think it was from energy as opposed to something else, but who knows. Nothing else out of the ordinary happened during or after.




What were you feeling when you saw these things happening?  Cynicism?  Fright?  Wonder?  Apathy?



I'd have to see something of some kind convincing to believe in spirits, good or evil. Like I said, it's one area I wish I could delve into a bit more.



Do you have anything specific in mind that you'd need to see to convince you that God or the devil or spirits or angels or demons are real? 

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 14, 2006, 08:30:10 PM
What were you feeling when you saw these things happening?  Cynicism?  Fright?  Wonder?  Apathy?
I'd say bewilderment. I still believe a collection of focused minds can create alot of energy and that this
is what happened.


Do you have anything specific in mind that you'd need to see to convince you that God or the devil or spirits or angels or demons are real? 

Nothing specific, but something that at least to me can't be questioned. Kind of like the old Roswell wreckage, some people who saw it, are convinced it was metal like none other to this day (could wad it up and it would unravel perfectly seamless). Officials say it was Reynolds Wrap......but the people saw what they saw, believe what they believe and they are firm in that belief, because they witnessed it.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 14, 2006, 08:39:09 PM
Count Grishnackh is doing God's work.

YES Bast !!!  Join the dark side
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 16, 2006, 08:55:16 AM



Nothing specific, but something that at least to me can't be questioned. Kind of like the old Roswell wreckage, some people who saw it, are convinced it was metal like none other to this day (could wad it up and it would unravel perfectly seamless). Officials say it was Reynolds Wrap......but the people saw what they saw, believe what they believe and they are firm in that belief, because they witnessed it.



Do you think the Roswell story is true?  And that people saw that "metal?"
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Parker on December 16, 2006, 09:17:17 AM
Do you think the Roswell story is true?  And that people saw that "metal?"

You know, it has been said by alien abductees that the "lil greys" believe that there is a "Great Creator"...
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 16, 2006, 11:15:26 PM
Do you think the Roswell story is true?  And that people saw that "metal?"

Yes I do    :)
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 16, 2006, 11:17:23 PM
You know, it has been said by alien abductees that the "lil greys" believe that there is a "Great Creator"...

You should read some Sitchin Parker. He's gone out of favor because he's getting old and senile, but I think he was unravelling the mystery of mankind.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 17, 2006, 06:53:06 AM
Yes I do    :)
Good morning Count  :)

Why do you accept the Roswell story and viewing of the metal as true?

In general, how do you determine what you accept as true and what you believe to be false?


You know, it has been said by alien abductees that the "lil greys" believe that there is a "Great Creator"...

Hi Parker!

Where did you hear/read this?  What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 17, 2006, 07:58:31 PM
Good morning Count  :)

Why do you accept the Roswell story and viewing of the metal as true?

In general, how do you determine what you accept as true and what you believe to be false?


I'm considering the source. These were average people, in a time before media attention existed. They reported what they saw, have never waivered from that belief and still stand by it to this day and aren't afraid of gov't retaliation anymore, since the gov't and military had decades to spin doctor the story how they wanted.

I know THEY believe what they saw and I believe that aliens exist and have visited here, so I have no reason to not believe they are reporting facts.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 18, 2006, 06:25:58 AM
I'm considering the source. These were average people, in a time before media attention existed. They reported what they saw, have never waivered from that belief and still stand by it to this day and aren't afraid of gov't retaliation anymore, since the gov't and military had decades to spin doctor the story how they wanted.

I know THEY believe what they saw and I believe that aliens exist and have visited here, so I have no reason to not believe they are reporting facts.


(Just in case you wondered, I'm not saying I doubt them)

Count, when you look at your explanation of why you believe them, your criteria could apply to the people that saw Jesus after He had risen from the dead.

Over 500 people saw him arisen after His crucifixion.  Most of them average people, in a time before media attention existed.  Some we know about never waivered from their beliefs, would not recant and were murdered for that.  They stood by their belief unto death.

Is it easier for you to believe the Roswell believers than the Christ Resurrected Believers because you don't trust the accuracy of the bible and it's supporting writings?

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Colossus_500 on December 18, 2006, 09:23:50 AM
(Just in case you wondered, I'm not saying I doubt them)

Count, when you look at your explanation of why you believe them, your criteria could apply to the people that saw Jesus after He had risen from the dead.

Over 500 people saw him arisen after His crucifixion.  Most of them average people, in a time before media attention existed.  Some we know about never waivered from their beliefs, would not recant and were murdered for that.  They stood by their belief unto death.

Is it easier for you to believe the Roswell believers than the Christ Resurrected Believers because you don't trust the accuracy of the bible and it's supporting writings?


Well said, Stella! ;D
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 18, 2006, 11:34:16 PM

Is it easier for you to believe the Roswell believers than the Christ Resurrected Believers because you don't trust the accuracy of the bible and it's supporting writings?


I don't doubt that people believed they witnessed a resurrection and I believe that something otherworldly took place. What I question is, was the being that was resurrected, the father, the son and the holy ghost, the saviour of mankind?  NO

I do think that whatever created our mankind, understood that it needed some type of moralistic belief system to be able to live together in a society and survive, hence an "otherworld" type figure (God), a sacrificial lamb (Jesus) and a moralistic guidebook (Bible).



Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 18, 2006, 11:39:48 PM

Over 500 people saw him arisen after His crucifixion. 

On a side note, the ability to bend time is proven. There is no doubt that centuries in the future time travel will happen. It is scientific fact and as soon as the machinery is capable of being constructed it will occur (whether the general public knows about it or not).

Is it possible that these people were fooled by a futuristic David Copperfield?

Is it possible that religion and order were created by our distant FUTURE relatives? That we had driven humanity to the brink of extinction with hedonistic and lawless societies and an order of educated people were sent back to instill a faith and belief system to change the course of humanity?

It IS theoretically possible.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Jeff Miller on December 23, 2006, 03:31:38 AM
I think that STella's heart was in the right place by hosting a thread for someone to enlighten others about their religion.  And I think it is commendable that some would argue against "the Count" in favor of Christianity.  But it is clear to me that the Count is a poor, damned soul.  Any Christians that read this thread and his postings can readily see that.  Ultimately, each of us, Christian and other, have to be content with our place in this world and the next.  Count, if you are content with the knowledge of the oblivion that awaits you in death, then more power to ya.  Not everyone can be saved.  I really feel sorry for you, and I think the saddest thing is that you have been exposed to the truth yet dismiss it for whatever reason(s).  Honestly, I just feel profound sadness for anyone that knows where to find salvation yet spurns it.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 26, 2006, 06:20:52 AM
My only hatred towards religion is for the people who proclaim themselves to be holy and are anything but.

I can't stand that either but it doesn't make me hate Christianity or Jesus.  If a person is spouting how "holy" they are they have a problem w/pride among other things.

Even Jesus called out those types of people:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisess, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."  Matt 23:27-28

(See the entire chapter of Matthew 23 for Jesus laying the smackdown on the Pharisees and teachers of the law  :) )
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 27, 2006, 01:53:22 AM
I can't stand that either but it doesn't make me hate Christianity or Jesus.  If a person is spouting how "holy" they are they have a problem w/pride among other things.

Even Jesus called out those types of people:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisess, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."  Matt 23:27-28


(See the entire chapter of Matthew 23 for Jesus laying the smackdown on the Pharisees and teachers of the law  :) )

I would've liked to see you weigh in on the bodybuilding/christianity thread Stella. You weren't avoiding it were you?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 28, 2006, 07:22:13 PM
I would've liked to see you weigh in on the bodybuilding/christianity thread Stella. You weren't avoiding it were you?

I wasn't avoiding it other than it was already 2 pages by the time I was able to view it.....I since have posted there. :)



Meanwhile, Count, some more questions re: satanism:

Is there any specific music or "hymns" of any type in regard to honoring satanism?  I'm not talking about stuff that some people may regard as "satanic rock music" (which a lot of times is not) but something more attuned to the worship of "humanism/satanism?"  If so, do you enjoy/listen to it and can you give some examples?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 28, 2006, 09:02:53 PM
Meanwhile, Count, some more questions re: satanism:

Is there any specific music or "hymns" of any type in regard to honoring satanism?  I'm not talking about stuff that some people may regard as "satanic rock music" (which a lot of times is not) but something more attuned to the worship of "humanism/satanism?"  If so, do you enjoy/listen to it and can you give some examples?

The handful of wiccans that I have had conversations and known personally don't listen to satanic heavy metal but more traditional as you would expect, old style Celtic music (some of it is very listenable). Very earthy people.

I listen to a heavier style of music, some satanic, some not. Though I do not search out for satanic lyrics or themes. If I like the musical style, I like it, if not, I don't. I like a heavier, industrial metal sound for the most part. "Most" satanic themed metal is theatrical. People tend to forget that musicians are on a stage performing. No different than an actor performing in a play.

There is one self proclaimed satanist whom I do listen to and find his older music very invigorating for lack of a better word,
King Diamond, though I prefer the stuff from his days as the lead singer/songwriter for Mercyful Fate. I do believe he is a Satanist in the true sense of the religion. Not just the theatrics of a musician who entertains onstage.

Here is a sample of his lyrics, the song is quite well written and if you like a hard rock sound, you would find this to be quite agreeable.

The Oath

By the symbols of the creator
I swear henceforth to be
a faithful servant of his most
puissant archangel
the Prince Lucifer
whom the creator designated as his regent
and Lord of this World

I deny Jesus Christ...the deceiver
and I abjure the Christian faith
holding in contempt all of it's works

As a being now possessed of a human body
in this world I swear to give my full
allegiance to it's lawfull master,
to worship him our
Lord Satan and no other.

In the name of Satan, the ruler of Earth
open wide the gates of Hell
and come forth from the abyss
by these names: Satan, Leviathan,
Belial, Lucifer
I will kiss the goat

I swear to give my mind,
my body and soul unreservedly
to the furtherance of our
Lord Satan designs.

Do what thou wilt shall be the
whole of the law
as it was at the beginning
is now and ever shall be
a world without end...amen

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on December 29, 2006, 06:05:11 AM
Very interesting lyrics Count.  Does it seem like he believes in (the biblical) God and the (biblical) devil to you?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Jeff Miller on December 29, 2006, 08:16:32 AM
The handful of wiccans that I have had conversations and known personally don't listen to satanic heavy metal but more traditional as you would expect, old style Celtic music (some of it is very listenable). Very earthy people.

I listen to a heavier style of music, some satanic, some not. Though I do not search out for satanic lyrics or themes. If I like the musical style, I like it, if not, I don't. I like a heavier, industrial metal sound for the most part. "Most" satanic themed metal is theatrical. People tend to forget that musicians are on a stage performing. No different than an actor performing in a play.

There is one self proclaimed satanist whom I do listen to and find his older music very invigorating for lack of a better word,
King Diamond, though I prefer the stuff from his days as the lead singer/songwriter for Mercyful Fate. I do believe he is a Satanist in the true sense of the religion. Not just the theatrics of a musician who entertains onstage.

Here is a sample of his lyrics, the song is quite well written and if you like a hard rock sound, you would find this to be quite agreeable.

The Oath

By the symbols of the creator
I swear henceforth to be
a faithful servant of his most
puissant archangel
the Prince Lucifer
whom the creator designated as his regent
and Lord of this World

I deny Jesus Christ...the deceiver
and I abjure the Christian faith
holding in contempt all of it's works

As a being now possessed of a human body
in this world I swear to give my full
allegiance to it's lawfull master,
to worship him our
Lord Satan and no other.

In the name of Satan, the ruler of Earth
open wide the gates of Hell
and come forth from the abyss
by these names: Satan, Leviathan,
Belial, Lucifer
I will kiss the goat

I swear to give my mind,
my body and soul unreservedly
to the furtherance of our
Lord Satan designs.

Do what thou wilt shall be the
whole of the law
as it was at the beginning
is now and ever shall be
a world without end...amen



Bear in mind that King Diamond is also a performer/entertainer.  Almost every single one of his albums tells a story -- its like the musical equivalent of horror novels.  And "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is Crowley, not LaVey.

He is a self-proclaimed Satanist, but I honestly don't think even HE knows what he believes.

And yes, I own most of his albums.  ROCK!
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: scooter on December 29, 2006, 01:21:20 PM
I have never heard him but it seems that his view of satanism it different than the Church of Satan. I thought that the church of satan did not really worship anyone. I have only looked into it a little but I thought that the COS tought you to worship yourself more that a higher being is this true?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on December 29, 2006, 08:33:08 PM
Bear in mind that King Diamond is also a performer/entertainer.  Almost every single one of his albums tells a story -- its like the musical equivalent of horror novels.  And "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is Crowley, not LaVey.

He is a self-proclaimed Satanist, but I honestly don't think even HE knows what he believes.

And yes, I own most of his albums.  ROCK!

He started the story telling on his 1st KD album. Mercyful Fate were not theme related in the beginning (the original 2 albums), though obviously with the song Melissa, he continued with that (what a great song btw).

I do believe KD is a true satanist. He proclaims to be one and I think his followings are more along the true guidelines of the religion, not the fire and brimstone aspect, though he may keep that angle open for musical purposes. The couple interviews I've read with him where they got into his religous belief he seemed to be very familiar with LaVey's satanism.

Alistair Crowley and L Ron Hubbard (Mr Scientology) were buddies weren't they? I read once where they tried to impregnate a female through black magic and got into quite a bit of trouble. Wonder what Tom Cruise and John Travolta have to say about that !  :D

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on December 31, 2006, 04:06:52 PM
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.


Amazing.

I love this.

I will look into Satanism more.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on January 03, 2007, 11:09:37 AM
Amazing.

I love this.

I will look into Satanism more.

I don't see what's "amazing" about these though?  They all seem like common sense except for #4, #7, and the last 1/3 of #11.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Jeff Miller on January 04, 2007, 12:48:11 AM
and the last 1/3 of #11.

I just have this image of Emperor Palpatine saying that to Anakin.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on January 04, 2007, 01:02:41 AM
I don't see what's "amazing" about these though?

I couldn't really tell you why I liked them so much?  Just clicked in my head, wish everyone followed those rules.


Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on January 04, 2007, 08:04:01 AM
I couldn't really tell you why I liked them so much?  Just clicked in my head, wish everyone followed those rules.




Happy belated birthday Benfun7  :D
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on January 04, 2007, 05:28:46 PM
Thank ya! :D
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on January 04, 2007, 10:03:28 PM
I couldn't really tell you why I liked them so much?  Just clicked in my head, wish everyone followed those rules.

Wouldn't the world be a great place then !

Satanism makes people accountable, Christianity does not. 

Read through the threads and examples, you will begin to see a redundancy. Excuses, interpretation and the convenience of imperfection is really what Christianity has become.

They have accepted Jesus as their lord and savior and beg forgiveness for their sins, this has become the religions get out of jail free card in todays age.

You wouldn't be able to pay cash to an average hedonistic Christian to live 1 year in a Quaker or Amish environment. They just simply wouldn't do it. They are too engrossed in their own lives, what they are earning, what they need, what they want.

They don't see it themselves, but their faith has become introverted. They worship themselves exactly as a true Satanist would.

They have become satanists and are too paranoid and self obsessed to even realize it.

If heaven and hell exists as they believe, they will find out in the end regardless of what they keep telling themselves.

If hell exists, it will be standing room only !   lol


Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on January 14, 2007, 12:50:48 PM


If hell exists, it will be standing room only !   lol




Count, if you believed hell existed, what is your vision of what hell would be like?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on January 14, 2007, 04:14:33 PM
Count, if you believed hell existed, what is your vision of what hell would be like?

A place for the truly vile souls to be condemned with each other.

Kind of like Escape from New York !  :)
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on January 15, 2007, 06:12:38 AM
A place for the truly vile souls to be condemned with each other.

Kind of like Escape from New York !  :)

What would make someone "truly vile?"  Who would determine that?


Good movie (The first one anyway) :D 
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on January 16, 2007, 01:15:05 AM
What would make someone "truly vile?"  Who would determine that?


Good movie (The first one anyway) :D 

Our maker. Be it god, the devil or even ET     :)

If only we truly did have a place to throw the criminal burdens of society that we all support to make their own way amongst each other. The US would truly be a much better place.   
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on January 28, 2007, 03:32:28 PM
Count, I just looked at the first page of your avatar website.

The picture shows some people dressed up in costumes.  Do you ever do this and what is the purpose?  Do the different animal heads have different meanings?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: blinky on January 30, 2007, 02:17:05 PM
I dont know any xtians who embrace the scum of the earth, which is exactly what Jesus did. They look down upon prostitutes, porn stars, drug addicts etc. and bend over backwards trying to be a moral comapss, but none of them practice one of the most central tennants of xtianity, which is judge not.

this is one thing that really bothers me about lots of christians. they judge people who arent christians..or do things that are against christianity(homosexuality comes to mind).

like jimmy said we are not to judge. we dont have to agree with them or what they do/belive....but dont judge them for it.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: blinky on January 30, 2007, 02:51:04 PM
thanx for the info count. you made me see that satanism is much different than what i had previously thought. i still dont know enough to consider that its good or bad(in my view).............but youve made some points that i never would have thought were part of satanism.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on January 30, 2007, 11:41:45 PM
Count, I just looked at the first page of your avatar website.

The picture shows some people dressed up in costumes.  Do you ever do this and what is the purpose?  Do the different animal heads have different meanings?

Most of the symbolism STella is meant to for lack of a better word 'upset' the christian community.
You see, the christian bible, symbolism, rituals mean nothing to myself or any other satanist, I would go sit at a service any day with you no problem, or join you for a bible study class.

Chrisitans themselves for the most part are afraid to expose themselves to satanism (perhaps to avoid tempation??). They are afraid to read the satanic bible, get upset with an inverted cross or a pentagram. Honestly, did you even click past the homepage, read anything? If not, why not?

I'm betting the answer will be "I don't need to"    ;)
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on January 30, 2007, 11:42:38 PM
thanx for the info count. you made me see that satanism is much different than what i had previously thought. i still dont know enough to consider that its good or bad(in my view).............but youve made some points that i never would have thought were part of satanism.

It really IS the answer for alot of people blinky. Keep learning..
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: UK Gold on February 02, 2007, 06:58:45 AM
Just discovered this thread, didn'y even realise there was a board for religious discussion!

1] The 'myth' of Anton Lavey has been disseminated many times. He was a liar, a wife beater, a fake and a money crazed scoundrel. This is according to his own family!

2] When the church of satan was originally formed they did believe in a literal satan - a big bad guy in the sky that could give them 'magical powers' ::) At some point in the mid seventies Lavey stopped believing and instead turned his church into a personal bank.

3] Most of the satanic bible is Rands work jazzed up with some metaphysical musings.

4] The only work of any importance Lavey ever wrote was the compleat witch. This is either the ravings of a misogyinist madman or a profound insight into the power of women and the pathetic nature of men.

5] Despite earlier indictaions that indicated otherwise, Lavey didn't like homosexuals and didn't want them in his church [unless they were rich and would give him money]. At heart he was a traditional fifties male.

5] The vast majority of people that call themselves 'satanists' are fat, ugly, single men that somehow believe they are part of 'the elite' ::)

6] The two biographies about lavey were ghostwritten by him! For a true look at the church of satan and lavey read the church of satan, by michael aquino. He left the church after lavey started selling titles to people, and then formed the even more deluded temple of set. Oh, he was also the centre of a huge paedophile scandal. Speaking of which, laveys grandson claims lavey let him be abused by an old man. Charming ::)

            [Don't break the oath by Merycful Fate is one of the best albums ever recorded. KD and lavey did meet, and lavey gave him his pentagram!]


Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: blinky on February 02, 2007, 09:42:33 AM
It really IS the answer for alot of people blinky. Keep learning..

no its not my thing. just interesting to read things that i never knew.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on February 02, 2007, 12:55:13 PM
Most of the symbolism STella is meant to for lack of a better word 'upset' the christian community.


How do you reconcile that with #4 of the Satanic statements?



Here are the orginal 9 Satanic statements as given by Anton LaVey



4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!


Is it that Christians are not deemed worthy of kindness?  If not, why? 

Also, who decides who is worthy of kindness?  Is that left as a personal decision of each individual or are there guidelines for determining "worthiness?"

Honestly, did you even click past the homepage, read anything? If not, why not?

I'm betting the answer will be "I don't need to"    ;)

I did click past the entry pic and began to read the text on the first page but it just didn't keep my interest.  I will try to search the site more thoroughly when I have more time.  I'm sure I'll have many more questions for you then!


Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on February 02, 2007, 01:01:16 PM
Just discovered this thread, didn'y even realise there was a board for religious discussion!

1] The 'myth' of Anton Lavey has been disseminated many times. He was a liar, a wife beater, a fake and a money crazed scoundrel. This is according to his own family!

2] When the church of satan was originally formed they did believe in a literal satan - a big bad guy in the sky that could give them 'magical powers' ::) At some point in the mid seventies Lavey stopped believing and instead turned his church into a personal bank.

3] Most of the satanic bible is Rands work jazzed up with some metaphysical musings.

4] The only work of any importance Lavey ever wrote was the compleat witch. This is either the ravings of a misogyinist madman or a profound insight into the power of women and the pathetic nature of men.

5] Despite earlier indictaions that indicated otherwise, Lavey didn't like homosexuals and didn't want them in his church [unless they were rich and would give him money]. At heart he was a traditional fifties male.

5] The vast majority of people that call themselves 'satanists' are fat, ugly, single men that somehow believe they are part of 'the elite' ::)

6] The two biographies about lavey were ghostwritten by him! For a true look at the church of satan and lavey read the church of satan, by michael aquino. He left the church after lavey started selling titles to people, and then formed the even more deluded temple of set. Oh, he was also the centre of a huge paedophile scandal. Speaking of which, laveys grandson claims lavey let him be abused by an old man. Charming ::)

            [Don't break the oath by Merycful Fate is one of the best albums ever recorded. KD and lavey did meet, and lavey gave him his pentagram!]



UK Gold, glad that you found the religion board lol!  There are Political and Sports childboards also...just FYI.

UK, was the above written by you?  What is your spiritual background (if you don't mind answering)?

I'm also interested in Count's response to your post.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: blinky on February 02, 2007, 02:27:07 PM
stella, i thinks its great that you put up threads to learn about other religions. being that youre christian some people might say its wrong of you to "promote" other religions............... .especially satanism.

i think count might have mentioned somewhere here breifly but i bet most christians wouldnt even want to know/learn/read more about satanism.  good on you and the rest of the christians(myself included) that are willing to.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: UK Gold on February 02, 2007, 05:56:28 PM
UK Gold, glad that you found the religion board lol!  There are Political and Sports childboards also...just FYI.

UK, was the above written by you?  What is your spiritual background (if you don't mind answering)?

I'm also interested in Count's response to your post.
Yes!

I studied religion/contempory religion at university and wrote numerous papers on the occult versus 'traditional' religion etc.

I am 100% atheist! I believe everyone should read the selfish gene and the god delusion by Richard Dawkins - especially children.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on February 02, 2007, 07:08:08 PM
How do you reconcile that with #4 of the Satanic statements?

Is it that Christians are not deemed worthy of kindness?  If not, why? 

Also, who decides who is worthy of kindness?  Is that left as a personal decision of each individual or are there guidelines for determining "worthiness?"

I did click past the entry pic and began to read the text on the first page but it just didn't keep my interest.  I will try to search the site more thoroughly when I have more time.  I'm sure I'll have many more questions for you then!


I wouldn't make any distinction of a persons religious beliefs in extending kindness to them. If they are worthy, they are worthy.

I'm not sure if I'm following on you how satanic symbolism is being unkind to a christian person or any person for that matter. They can view it or not. If it offends them, that is a personal feeling. If i wear a pentagram around my neck, it is not to inflict hate or cruelty on to someone.   Maybe I'm missing what you were saying?

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on February 02, 2007, 07:37:07 PM

I'm also interested in Count's response to your post.

It just sounds like alot of here-say to me.

I'm not that familiar with Ayn Rand's work for the most part or how much of an actual influence it was. The Satanic Bible is a clearly written belief system and guideline, I don't think anyone had much input to the actual text other than LaVey and whomever was close to him at the time, if anyone.

I would hardly put any stock in whatever Zeena LaVey and other family members have said "after" her father passed away. She was looking to cash in on the "church" when he was alive, that is for sure. 

Michael Aquino is Michael Aquino, good for him.

I personally don't look to Anton LaVey as any kind of martyr or religious symbol. He is merely someone who had a lot of courage to step up at a time when the world was much more closeminded and stand up for what he believed in. He introduced a belief system that alot of people are very comfortable making their way in the world with.

If I can find my cd, I will put up the song The Oath for everyone to listen to, but I've looked several times and not sure where it disappeared to.





Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: blinky on February 03, 2007, 03:34:06 AM
count, is there a person who is head of the satanic church? kind of like the pope for catholics.

if so, who is it?
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on February 05, 2007, 05:11:04 AM
count, is there a person who is head of the satanic church? kind of like the pope for catholics.

if so, who is it?

I think his woman Blanche Barton is the head of the church now.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: benjamin pearson on February 27, 2007, 08:08:47 AM
count do you worship at all or strictly anti-religion???
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on February 28, 2007, 10:24:52 PM
count do you worship at all or strictly anti-religion???

Anti-christianity / organized religion, with a focus on humanity, what makes us what we are, what drives us, enables us, satisfies us and embracing it.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: tu_holmes on March 01, 2007, 12:12:02 AM
count do you worship at all or strictly anti-religion???

I'm pretty Anti-religion (not that you asked me of course).

Mostly because more killing has been done because of some religion than for any other reason throughout history.

However, if you have your faith and you really walk the walk... More power to you.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: benjamin pearson on March 01, 2007, 05:46:23 AM
Anti-christianity / organized religion, with a focus on humanity, what makes us what we are, what drives us, enables us, satisfies us and embracing it.

Cool..... thanks
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Blue Heat on March 07, 2007, 05:26:55 AM
It is good to start from the beginning with the basics of any religion. I guess I am under the assumption that most people on this thread have already done their research on satanism and most other religions, however having come across a great deal of christians who are hesitant to discuss satanism on any level, perhaps feeling it may infiltrate their pure thoughts.... at Stella's request, we'll see where this thread goes (to HELL perhaps).

I've never been taken up by any christian I've offered to read the satanic bible, they won't even touch it. They don't "need to" read it, they know all they need to know, or so they say. I can say I have read a good deal of the bible, both new and old testament. I have nothing to fear from it and it most certainly doesn't cause my own faith to waver.

Perhaps their are some other satanists lurking who would like to join in and offer their experiences or impart some knowledge and truths.

Here are the orginal 9 Satanic statements as given by Anton LaVey

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!


Ok, bible beaters, time to throw your worthless, manipulated 10 commandments into the fire !


The Lord hath spoken ye poor deluded soul....AS THE LORD LIVETH, no sorcerer or idolater or devil worshipper shalt have any part in the Kingdom of God. This fellow Count Dracula  ;D has no clue about anything in life. Another sad case of life wasted...unless ye repent, ye shall have your part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone.
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on March 22, 2007, 09:16:47 PM
Count, do you think of yourself as your own "god" who knows what's best for you?  Or do you have a "take life as it comes" thought process or something different?


What are your thoughts on the following?  Do you have a card that you paid for and carry it?  If so, have you ever showed it to another in a neutral environment and found them to have the same?

Registered Membership
We don’t solicit memberships; however, if you wish to join us to show your support or appreciation you can become a Registered Member. For a one-time registration fee of two hundred dollars in United States currency, you will receive an embossed crimson card declaring you a member of the Church of Satan. This card is your means for identifying yourself as a genuine member of the Church of Satan to other members. If you expect to meet another member for the first time, be prepared to produce your card. Likewise, you may be expected to produce a scan of your card to certify your membership to other members online.

If you represent yourself as affiliated with the Church of Satan, you are legally required to register with us as a member.  All applicants must submit the signed and dated Registration Statement via postal mail—electronic facsimiles are not acceptable.

Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on March 22, 2007, 10:14:42 PM
Count, do you think of yourself as your own "god" who knows what's best for you?  Or do you have a "take life as it comes" thought process or something different?


What are your thoughts on the following?  Do you have a card that you paid for and carry it?  If so, have you ever showed it to another in a neutral environment and found them to have the same?

Registered Membership
We don’t solicit memberships; however, if you wish to join us to show your support or appreciation you can become a Registered Member. For a one-time registration fee of two hundred dollars in United States currency, you will receive an embossed crimson card declaring you a member of the Church of Satan. This card is your means for identifying yourself as a genuine member of the Church of Satan to other members. If you expect to meet another member for the first time, be prepared to produce your card. Likewise, you may be expected to produce a scan of your card to certify your membership to other members online.

If you represent yourself as affiliated with the Church of Satan, you are legally required to register with us as a member.  All applicants must submit the signed and dated Registration Statement via postal mail—electronic facsimiles are not acceptable.



STella, both of the statements in the first paragraph I would tend to agree with. I am in control of my own destiny, I guess you could say I am my own god. There is nothing or no one looking out for me, no amount of idol worship is going to bring about change in my life.

I do take life as it comes, much of what life brings to you is self-initiated, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I'm a big believer in timing in life. Timing is everything, I just think that sometimes for some people, the timing of good things doesn't happen to where they can take advantage of the situation. I guess you could call it luck.

I would never pay to be a member of the church. That type of identification may be important for some people, especially if they like to socialize with like-minded individuals.

I was myself when I found satanism, it was like finding the missing information that I needed on what life is about. I wasn't seeking anything out, it was just by chance and it fit, but it was already who I was.

If that makes sense. I honestly don't like to talk religion that much in person, people tend to get close-minded so it doesn't lead to very good conversations. You are an exception.   :)



Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Count Grishnackh on March 22, 2007, 10:16:53 PM
Ok, this has to be my last post on anything other than the Alphabet boards, you can see why, it just too apropos to not take advantage of.    :D

Feel free to pm, or chat with on the V!    8)
Title: Re: Learning Thread *Satanism*
Post by: Butterbean on March 25, 2007, 12:02:32 PM
Ok, this has to be my last post on anything other than the Alphabet boards,

 :(



Feel free to pm, or chat with on the V!    8)
ok  :)