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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: pumpster on December 11, 2006, 05:56:24 AM
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Hilarious
TEHRAN, Iran -- Iran on Monday opened a Holocaust conference that it said would examine whether the genocide took place, claiming the meeting was an opportunity for discussion in an atmosphere free of Western taboos.
The conference, "Review of the Holocaust: Global Vision," was initiated by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has described the Holocaust as a "myth" and called for Israel to be wiped off the map. Even before it opened, the gathering was condemned by Germany, the United States and Israel.
Rabbi Moishe Ayre Friedman, left, from Austria, give his business card to a Muslim clergyman, as Rabbi Ahron Cohen from England, looks on, at a conference on the Holocaust, in Tehran, Iran, Monday, Dec. 11, 2006. Iran on Monday opened a conference that it said would examine whether the Holocaust took place, claiming the meeting was an opportunity to discuss the World War II genocide in an atmosphere free of what it termed Western taboos. Even before it opened, the gathering was condemned by Germany, the United States and Israel.
The organizers, the Foreign Ministry's Institute for Political and International Studies, say the two-day conference has drawn 67 foreign researchers from 30 countries.
In his opening speech, the institute's chief, Rasoul Mousavi, said the conference provided an opportunity to discuss "questions" about the Holocaust away from Western taboos and the restrictions imposed on scholars in Europe.
In Germany, Austria and France, it is illegal to deny the Holocaust.
"This conference seeks neither to deny nor prove the Holocaust," Mousavi said. "It is just to provide an appropriate scientific atmosphere for scholars to offer their opinions in freedom about a historical issue."
Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki dismissed the foreign criticism as "predictable," telling conference delegates in a speech that there was "no logical reason for opposing this conference."
"The objective for organizing this conference is to create an atmosphere to raise various opinions about a historical issue. We are not seeking to deny or prove the Holocaust," Mottaki said.
"If the official version of the Holocaust is thrown into doubt, then the identity and nature of Israel will be thrown into doubt. And if, during this review, it is proved that the Holocaust was a historical reality, then what is the reason for the Muslim people of the region and the Palestinians having to pay the cost of the Nazis' crimes?" Mottaki said.
In Israel, the official Holocaust memorial, Yad Vashem, issued a statement condemning the Tehran conference as an attempt to "paint (an) extremist agenda with a scholarly brush ... an effort to mainstream Holocaust denial."
The conference was expected to receive a message from Ahmadinejad, who has said that the killing of six million Jews by the Nazi German regime during World War II was a "myth" and "exaggerated."
The president has repeatedly questioned why the Holocaust has been used to justify the creation of Israel at the expense of the Palestinians _ a view popular among Iranian hard-liners.
Iran has spent months preparing for the conference, even publicizing it during the September visit to Tehran of U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who contradicted his hosts by saying the Holocaust was a historical fact and that an exhibition of anti-Holocaust cartoons, then on display in the city, promoted hatred.
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they had motive to exaggerate it for the eyes of the world, there is no denying that.
not saying they did, i haven't looked at it much. but shit, would they have gotten the land in isreal with 100,000 killed? no. But six million, and those horrible films, hell, mighta been propaganda.
who cares. man up and live with it. Isreal powers the US and we are the only superpower. Deal with it or take a red, white and blue facial, bitches.
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lol ;D
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The satanic ideology of islam strikes again.
Imagine if Mr Blair, Bush, Putin, etc etc got together for a public meeting discussing the FACT that muhammad molested a child, was a murderer, polygamist and militant etc.
There would be uproar beyond comprehension from the muzzies.
Double standards.
We need an holocaust to occur in Iran.
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Wow, that's interesting. Tell us more!
::) :)
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the holocaust was a fact. anyone who doesnt think millions of people, about half of them jews, were murdered in death camps either has doen no research or refuses to believe it. Some people do have a motive for denying its existence, which is why most Arab countries put in their history books for their children that it was a myth made up by jews to get land from palestine. This is what the Iranian president says when he speaks to his own people, but no in front of a world audience he is trying to charm
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The satanic ideology of islam strikes again.
Imagine if Mr Blair, Bush, Putin, etc etc got together for a public meeting discussing the FACT that muhammad molested a child, was a murderer, polygamist and militant etc.
There would be uproar beyond comprehension from the muzzies.
Double standards.
We need an holocaust to occur in Iran.
That's a terrible thing to say.
What we need in Iran, is an intellectual awakening.
And democracy, real democracy.
-Hedge
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That's a terrible thing to say.
What we need in Iran, is an intellectual awakening.
And democracy, real democracy.
-Hedge
Their satanic ideology calls for the suppression of non-believers of their cult.
They have holocaust drawing competitions for children. They are all guilty.
My reference to a holocaust happening in Iran is basically the only way Iran will accept it happened.
Who should pay for the awakening and democracy? Should the west pay? Should the west pay via the severe disrespect Iran has for us and Jews? ::)
Give me a break "don't punish murderers put them back as a working unit into society" Zacharias!
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is the number exactly 6 million? No, but is in the ballpark. No, 240, i did not read in a government sponsored textbook that it was 6 million and believe it as fact. In fact, before WW II history became a passion of mine I had trouble believing that millions of people could be systematically murdered in a supposedly enlightened country with a cultural history like germany's. But the more you study world war ii you realize it was far worse than is possible to imagine, even on a casual level. The amount of death and suffering in china and eastern europe in particular is, quite frankly, fantastic in its enormity. I mean fantastic as in borderline unbelievable, not great.
Every historian from various coutnries who have studied that were not paid by the US or Israeli government. SS/Nazi/other german documents (kept with typical german efficiency) keeping track of those admitted to camps/exterminated/died of "natural causes", records/testimonies of soviet spies embedded in the beauracracy of nazi germany, testimony of death camp commandants (like Eichmann), testimony of thsoe who served on death sqauds in occupied territories, census figures, and any other sourcues were used to come up with the figures. They were not picked out of thin air by a government agency who wanted to create Israel.
THe Iron Gaurd regime in Romania, as well as the Ustazi in Croatia also killed many jews, but in more of a pogrom style than in an organized genocide.
Could these figures be exaggerated? somewhat, sure. But I doubt the vast majority of historians and those who study the topic would all fall in with the official line just to justify israel.
Just because I think most of your 911 beliefs are bullshit does not mean I just accept everything that is taken as fact as the cold and hard truth.
I will be the first to admit i am not very fond of jews, but the truth is the truth.
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the holocaust was a fact. anyone who doesnt think millions of people, about half of them jews, were murdered in death camps either has doen no research or refuses to believe it. Some people do have a motive for denying its existence, which is why most Arab countries put in their history books for their children that it was a myth made up by jews to get land from palestine. This is what the Iranian president says when he speaks to his own people, but no in front of a world audience he is trying to charm
I believe the holocaust happened... But there are a few important facts missing from your history books...
....
Rabbi Goldstein: why traditional Jews do not support Zionism
http://www.hiddenmysteries.net/audio/2005/zionism.shtml
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
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I agree. They had no right to the land. At the same time, does any country really have the right to take anyone elses land, which has happened in all of recorded history more than it is possible to keep track of? No. This situation is unique in that they did not conquer the land, as their influence got them it for free.
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Look who showed up at the conference: David Duke.
"This conference has an incredible impact on Holocaust studies all over the world," said American David Duke, a former Ku Klux Klan leader and former state representative in Louisiana.
"The Holocaust is the device used as the pillar of Zionist imperialism, Zionist aggression, Zionist terror and Zionist murder," Duke told The Associated Press.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/12/12/151034.shtml?s=lh
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haha right on nordic
ya fuckin psycho!
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I firmly believe that the best way to deal with a conference like this would be to give extensive media coverage, send lots of journalists to ask the investigative questions, to get experts there to represent what really happened.
Dealings with right-wing extremists in Germany and the rest of Europe, that share similar agendas with the Iran regime, has shown that these groups do not enjoy media exposure, even if the questions are fair.
My opinion is clear: Put the spotlight on this event, do it fairly. The truth will prevail. Ask the honest questions, and guys like Duke will either refuse to answer or show his true colors. Regardless: they will be exposed for the bullshit artists they really are.
-Hedge
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Why'd they allow david duke over there? Are they stupid?
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Why'd they allow david duke over there? Are they stupid?
Because "David Duke" is a cool sounding name? :-\
(It actually is, I have to admit)
-Hedge
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Why is it illegal in Europe to question the Holocaust? What a bunch of garbrage. And they're crying over Iran's plea for attention when they can't respect free speech.
Zach, explain on behalf of the EU why questioning the holocaust is illegal..
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I firmly believe that the best way to deal with a conference like this would be to give extensive media coverage, send lots of journalists to ask the investigative questions, to get experts there to represent what really happened.
Dealings with right-wing extremists in Germany and the rest of Europe, that share similar agendas with the Iran regime, has shown that these groups do not enjoy media exposure, even if the questions are fair.
My opinion is clear: Put the spotlight on this event, do it fairly. The truth will prevail. Ask the honest questions, and guys like Duke will either refuse to answer or show his true colors. Regardless: they will be exposed for the bullshit artists they really are.
-Hedge
thats admirable but naive, the truth would never prevail
you all should check out a book called masters of death, one of the most stone cold fucking reads you could imagine...doesn't detail the death camp experience, it talks about the build up to it ... from the top of my head:
the holocaust started out as laws depriving jews of rights, citizenship businesses, herding them into ghettos, making them wear yellow stars, forbidding intermarriage etc etc ... there was a night when many were openly murdered in the street(night of broken glass), i think it actually numbered in the thousands but you never know
and then they began shipping them out of germany to concentration camps (in poland mostly), and killing them in hospitals at a rate greater than that which they were doing to political dissidents, mental defects, old people, catholics, homosexuals, masons etc etc ... they had very specific quotas outline for this, and i dont think any of us can appreciate the logistical nightmare involved with shipping that many people, luckily IBM was able to produce special cards for processing prisoner numbers ;)
meanwhile outside germany, the death squads in charge of jew management were not regular soldiers, they were special "ss"(?) squads which came in after the major battling to garrison if you will .. there goal to make countries juden frei(sp?), and every country the germans invaded was happy as pigs in shit to hand them over or outright kill them(in fact i think it was latvia or lithuania who achieved the goal of killing every one in the country)... thats something you dont hear in the jew run media, the jews werent winning any popularity contests than and they sure as f**k arent now. anywho these soldiers either bribed locals or carried out the initial stages of the holocaust on their own, which was murdering people in the street. sometimes it was being gunned down outside of town, being drowned in 10,000's and sometimes it was being beaten with a giant club in the middle of a cheering town square
when one of the nazi brass witnessed this close up he said it wasnt good for soldiers mentality to be exposed to it day in and day out, ergo the rise of the conversion from concentration camps where they sent jews, gypsies, catholics etc etc into death camps focused more narrowly on jews with more remote methods of killing
if you want my best guess, several hundred thousand to several million jews were killed, it probably wasnt as many as 6 though. the jews milk to for everything it is worth and then some, and it was not just the germans.
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Why is it illegal in Europe to question the Holocaust? What a bunch of garbrage. And they're crying over Iran's plea for attention when they can't respect free speech.
Zach, explain on behalf of the EU why questioning the holocaust is illegal..
It's actually illegal only in Germany and perhaps Austria too?
I know it is in Germany, definitely. Rest of the EU, no.
The reason is quite obvious IMO, in Germany you still have the proof of it, and it is also a testimony to true evil.
In Germany, all the concentration and death camps are still kept, and they serve as a reminder of what happened.
It's a big trauma for the Germans, and as a Swede I feel bad for how Sweden sold out during WWII, I could only imagine how it must feel for a German. :-\
I definitely understand why they make it illegal to question the Holocaust. They've barely made peace with themselves regarding it, and don't need some fcuktard retarded neonazis questioning if it all happened, and glorifying Hitler and his Posse.
Whenever I see people praise the Nazi ideals, it makes me lose it.
Sorry for the rant.
-Hedge
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It's actually illegal only in Germany and perhaps Austria too?
I know it is in Germany, definitely. Rest of the EU, no.
The reason is quite obvious IMO, in Germany you still have the proof of it, and it is also a testimony to true evil.
In Germany, all the concentration and death camps are still kept, and they serve as a reminder of what happened.
It's a big trauma for the Germans, and as a Swede I feel bad for how Sweden sold out during WWII, I could only imagine how it must feel for a German. :-\
I definitely understand why they make it illegal to question the Holocaust. They've barely made peace with themselves regarding it, and don't need some fcuktard retarded neonazis questioning if it all happened, and glorifying Hitler and his Posse.
Whenever I see people praise the Nazi ideals, it makes me lose it.
Sorry for the rant.
-Hedge
good man, hedge. I don't know the scene in Europe, so I'm ignortant. Thanks for clearinging that up.
But even sandy(who supposed to be half jew) has pointed out that it might not be 6 million. What's wrong with question that figure? It doesn't automatically make you a Nazi.
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good man, hedge. I don't know the scene in Europe, so I'm ignortant. Thanks for clearinging that up.
But even sandy(who supposed to be half jew) has pointed out that it might not be 6 million. What's wrong with question that figure? It doesn't automatically make you a Nazi.
What many people tend to forget, is how many Jews died in Poland.
The main flaw with the questioning of the numbers, are when the effectiveness of the extermination camps are being used for measure.
Even sometimes, concentration camps, and their masons, are used for measurements. The claims are that these are not sufficient to burn all these people.
Extermination camps were a whole different ballgame. They were built, not to house Jews, Gipsies and retards. But to exterminate them. Treblinka, Belsen and Chelmo... :'(
-Hedge
Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Claims_of_the_Holocaust_deniers
I think the numbers they claim
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For you people saying that the US is the one padding the numbers, Germany themselves have admitted to everything. Do you know the shame they have to live with? Why would they pad something to make it look even worse? It's not doing much of a service to those who died by saying the numbers were padded. For all we know 8 million died and there are 2 million forgotten people.
In other news....
(http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/photos/hitler_rally_steps+large.jpg)
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For you people saying that the US is the one padding the numbers, Germany themselves have admitted to everything. Do you know the shame they have to live with? Why would they pad something to make it look even worse? It's not doing much of a service to those who died by saying the numbers were padded. For all we know 8 million died and there are 2 million forgotten people.
In other news....
(http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/photos/hitler_rally_steps+large.jpg)
Every number matters because jews have used the holocaust to justify just about everything. They used it to advance their own selfish interests on behalf of another group of people.
Point is that if they used the holocaust to advance political agendas then they should be subject to questions. They should not be immune like they want to be.
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Every number matters because jews have used the holocaust to justify just about everything. They used it to advance their own selfish interests on behalf of another group of people.
Point is that if they used the holocaust to advance political agendas then they should be subject to questions. They should not be immune like they want to be.
The numbers are irrelevant if you ask me. They would be crying if it was 1 jew gassed or 6 million. That's a pretty stupid argument you're making.
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The number is just as relevant as the numberof our troops that have lost their lives in Iraq. I don't see liberals saying millions are being killed, that would be a big difference. I believe the holocaust happened but I'm sure that 6 million jews were not killed. Thats all they ever talk about, "6 million", and no one ever dares call it a lie.Why? Because the jews have money? Because people think they'll seem anti-semetic? I think there should be a thorough investigation. I wish it wasn't being done in Iran but it has to be done.
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The number is just as relevant as the numberof our troops that have lost their lives in Iraq. I don't see liberals saying millions are being killed, that would be a big difference. I believe the holocaust happened but I'm sure that 6 million jews were not killed. Thats all they ever talk about, "6 million", and no one ever dares call it a lie.Why? Because the jews have money? Because people think they'll seem anti-semetic? I think there should be a thorough investigation. I wish it wasn't being done in Iran but it has to be done.
Does the number bother you that much? How do you suppose they can investigate it? The majority of people killed were incinerated. Not to mention the fact it occured over 60 years ago. Enlighten me. It's interesting watching you cry babies basically say that the German Government is wrong.
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The number is just as relevant as the numberof our troops that have lost their lives in Iraq. I don't see liberals saying millions are being killed, that would be a big difference. I believe the holocaust happened but I'm sure that 6 million jews were not killed. Thats all they ever talk about, "6 million", and no one ever dares call it a lie.Why? Because the jews have money? Because people think they'll seem anti-semetic? I think there should be a thorough investigation. I wish it wasn't being done in Iran but it has to be done.
Yeah, you and I aren't fucking Nazis just because we question something.
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Sig Heil!
(http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/images/nazi_rally.jpg)
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Does the number bother you that much? How do you suppose they can investigate it? The majority of people killed were incinerated. Not to mention the fact it occured over 60 years ago. Enlighten me. It's interesting watching you cry babies basically say that the German Government is wrong.
Cry babies? What am I crying over? Half the people on this board constantly bash our government and say how wrong the US and it's current administration is, Why can't the German Gov't be wrong? And I am saying the german government is wrong, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying the jews have become powerful enough that any mention that they may not have suffered as bad as they portray is considered anti-semetic, its bs.
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Cry babies? What am I crying over? Half the people on this board constantly bash our government and say how wrong the US and it's current administration is, Why can't the German Gov't be wrong? And I am saying the german government is wrong, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying the jews have become powerful enough that any mention that they may not have suffered as bad as they portray is considered anti-semetic, its bs.
The mistake you make is not in challenge the number, but in attributing the Jews as "suffering".
This is not the issue.
The issue is that the Nazis committed horrible crimes, and that there are numerous ways of verifying the death total, even though nobody will ever know the exact amount of people that were murdered.
I don't think there is any problem with people looking at the actual facts and studying, doing real research.
But quasi-science, sitting in your little apartment and making estimates based on what is "possible", instead of doing field research, interviews and real research of the material available, that is hogwash.
And precisely what the revisionists are doing.
-Hedge
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The mistake you make is not in challenge the number, but in attributing the Jews as "suffering".
This is not the issue.
The issue is that the Nazis committed horrible crimes, and that there are numerous ways of verifying the death total, even though nobody will ever know the exact amount of people that were murdered.
I don't think there is any problem with people looking at the actual facts and studying, doing real research.
But quasi-science, sitting in your little apartment and making estimates based on what is "possible", instead of doing field research, interviews and real research of the material available, that is hogwash.
And precisely what the revisionists are doing.
-Hedge
Well said, Hedge.
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The mistake you make is not in challenge the number, but in attributing the Jews as "suffering".
This is not the issue.
The issue is that the Nazis committed horrible crimes, and that there are numerous ways of verifying the death total, even though nobody will ever know the exact amount of people that were murdered.
I don't think there is any problem with people looking at the actual facts and studying, doing real research.
But quasi-science, sitting in your little apartment and making estimates based on what is "possible", instead of doing field research, interviews and real research of the material available, that is hogwash.
And precisely what the revisionists are doing.
-Hedge
First, If you ever hear Jews talk they constantly mention how they have been "suffering" since the times of the pharoehs and are still suffering in parts of the world. I see commercials everyday asking me to donate money to Israel and help the Jews. Second, I am not the one doing the research. I think real research should be done; interviews, document reviews etc.. I don't believe an Imperial Wizard in the KKK should be a major contributor and considered an "expert" during the investigation. This is why I stated that I wish it was not being done in Iran. As far as me sitting in my aprtment, that has nothing to do with the fact that 6 million jews were not killed.
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The mistake you make is not in challenge the number, but in attributing the Jews as "suffering".
This is not the issue.
The issue is that the Nazis committed horrible crimes, and that there are numerous ways of verifying the death total, even though nobody will ever know the exact amount of people that were murdered.
I don't think there is any problem with people looking at the actual facts and studying, doing real research.
But quasi-science, sitting in your little apartment and making estimates based on what is "possible", instead of doing field research, interviews and real research of the material available, that is hogwash.
And precisely what the revisionists are doing.
-Hedge
I agree. So what if the number was 6 million, 1 million, or 100,000. No question they committed genocide.
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I agree. So what if the number was 6 million, 1 million, or 100,000. No question they committed genocide.
I agree, genocide was commited. But 100,000 and 6 million is very different. 500k have been killed so far in Darfur and everyone seems to be turning a blind eye. I personally don't care if 10 or 10 million were killed, I hate the fact that it is so frowned upon to mention that the number may be exaggerated. That is what I am arguing, the "taboo" of calling the holocaust exaggerated, not the actual genocide.
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I agree, genocide was commited. But 100,000 and 6 million is very different. 500k have been killed so far in Darfur and everyone seems to be turning a blind eye. I personally don't care if 10 or 10 million were killed, I hate the fact that it is so frowned upon to mention that the number may be exaggerated. That is what I am arguing, the "taboo" of calling the holocaust exaggerated, not the actual genocide.
Do you have any proof that it was exaggerated? You keep claiming that you think it is, and you haven't provided one detail to back it up outside of "it sounds worse when it's bigger".
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Again, I am not/have not done all the research. I think the Jews would have a much better story if 6 million were killed than if 100,000 were killed. This is why I think a real investigation should be completed. Thats all I'm saying, is that there should be a complete investigation.
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As far as proof, because I can see several people want some reasons, how about the fact that there are no gas chambers. NONE. There are no fuctional or credible gas chambers, no blueprints, no plans, no document, no order to gas, exterminate, or cremate. NOTHING. Not to mention what would they do with 6 million bodies? They did not have the energy to cremate this many bodies. The crematories were not big enough to do such a work load. These are some of the reasons I believe the number is exaggerated. You cant kill 6 million people in 3 years and not leave proof of how you did it. It just doesn't add up.
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Again, I am not/have not done all the research. I think the Jews would have a much better story if 6 million were killed than if 100,000 were killed. This is why I think a real investigation should be completed. Thats all I'm saying, is that there should be a complete investigation.
Bro, and I'm don't want to come across as insulting now, forgive me if I do...
The thing is "the real investigation" you talk about, is suggesting that all the studies that has been done regarding the Holocaust up until now is flawed.
This is where there is a big logical lapsus on your part. Why would all the research up until now be so wrong?
"Complete investigation"?
Why would there not have been a complete review, recollection and research of the horrors of the WWII?
It is, after all, a World War.
-Hedge
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As far as proof, because I can see several people want some reasons, how about the fact that there are no gas chambers. NONE. There are no fuctional or credible gas chambers, no blueprints, no plans, no document, no order to gas, exterminate, or cremate. NOTHING. Not to mention what would they do with 6 million bodies? They did not have the energy to cremate this many bodies. The crematories were not big enough to do such a work load. These are some of the reasons I believe the number is exaggerated. You cant kill 6 million people in 3 years and not leave proof of how you did it. It just doesn't add up.
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek02.html
-Hedge
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That's the thing, it has not been looked at with the possibility of the numbers being wrong. The world is too afraid to dare say the numbers are wrong. The jews are too powerful and countries do not want to offend them. The numbers and horrible methods of torture were pumped up by the allied forces and the soviets to drive the fight against the germans. Same way the Japanese told their pilots that if they were caught, american soldier would torture them with bamboo shutes in their nailbeds.
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Look at Majdanek. The numbers of Majdanek has clearly been revised down, without anyone objecting to it, and it has been done by real historians, the same kind of historians that would establish that there are 6 million Jews slain.
-Hedge
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Woul they have been given the land of Israel if only one Jewish person had been murdered, BerzerkFury?
I don't think that creating Israel was legit.
That was a crime against the Palestine people.
But things being the way they are, an equal Israel and Palestine is the just solution IMO.
-Hedge
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http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek02.html
-Hedge
I can google Holocaust revisionism and post a link if you want. I'm giving you the other side of the arguement. I see buildings, someone descirbing "gas chambers" and an article saying the pulled gased bodies up a hill with tractors. 6 million people brought to crematories in tractors in the 40s. Didn't happen. There just wasn't enough energy in Germany in the 40s to burn 6 million bodies. It's a fact, they couldnt have mass murdered that many people that fast with no proof. Buidings on a field do not proove The chambers were functional, especially enough to gas millions.
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Disclaimer - I have no opinion on if Holo. was exaggerated or not. I have no reason to believe it was. I saw 6 mil in my history book and i have never seen anything otherwise. So I'm certainly not arguing that. But a few thoughts-
1. There will never be another investigation
2. Germany signed anything we told them in order to stay alive.
3. One dead person does not get you permission from the world to steal land - Six million dead people does.
4. History is written by the winners, and we won.
5. Everyone with a differing opinion was hanged.
6. They oddly made it a crime to question the Holocaust. To me, if there's nothing to hide, you sure don't need a law to ensure nobody asks what you're hiding...
7. To this day, any celebrity, politician, etc who questions anything about Israel sees his career shortcircuited. The media sacrificed Mel Gibson WAY longer than the quickly forgiven Kramer.
We'll never know. Period. And anyone who blindly says "I *KNOW* it's true or untrue" is a doggone fool. The only thing you *KNOW* is what you read in books written by one side. The other side would go to jail for writing their take.
What are you talking about?
They are continually researching the Holocaust and trying to find out exactly how many people that were killed.
Majdanek was one of the extermination camps, and was originally claimed to have killed over a million people. That number has later been going down throughout the years. Now its down to under 100 000.
So the research continues. Europe will never forget.
It's not about what numbers are fitting.
Or even about numbers. It's not about numbers.
It's about documenting what actually happened, as truthfully as possible.
-Hedge
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ancient history folks. focus on today.
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Do you have any proof that it was exaggerated? You keep claiming that you think it is, and you haven't provided one detail to back it up outside of "it sounds worse when it's bigger".
Each time real scholars and historians have questioned the 6 million figure by citing historical evidence they've been thrown in prison. And please stop with the Nazi Germany pictures. As you already know, this forum isn't full of pussy-footing, politically correct people. Doing the picture and "heil hitler" may work in the real world in silencing critics of Israel but it sure as hell wont work here(internet).
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Doesn't get any better... ;)
KKK's David Duke Tells Iran Holocaust Conference That Gas Chambers Not Used to Kill Jews
TEHRAN, Iran Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's conference questioning the Holocaust came to an end Tuesday, but not before hearing former KKK Imperial Wizard David Duke say that gas chambers were not used to kill Jews.
"The Zionists have used the Holocaust as a weapon to deny the rights of the Palestinians and cover up the crimes of Israel," Duke told a gathering of nearly 70 "researchers" in Tehran at Ahmadinejad's invitation.
"This conference has an incredible impact on Holocaust studies all over the world," said Duke, a former state representative in Louisiana who twice ran for president.
"The Holocaust is the device used as the pillar of Zionist imperialism, Zionist aggression, Zionist terror and Zionist murder," Duke told The Associated Press.
Also at the end of the conference, Mohammad Ali Ramini, an Ahmadinejad adviser who has called the Holocaust a "myth," announced that he will chair a committee to find "the truth on the genocide of Jews."
Other members of the committee will be Robert Fuerisson, a French professor who denies the existence of gas chambers, along with Holocaust deniers from Syria, Switzerland, Austria, Canada, the United States and Bahrain.
Tuesday's speeches included Ali Akbar Mohtashamipour, a former interior minister and one of the founders of Lebanese militia Hezbollah, who labeled the Holocaust as a "tale."
"All the studies and research carried out so far have proven that there is no reason to believe that the Holocaust ever occurred and that it is only a tale," he stated.
Austrian historian Wolfgang Froehlich, who served a two-year jail sentence in his home country for denying the Holocaust, did not read out his speech which was handed out to participants for fear of being jailed again. Denying the Holocaust is a crime in a dozen European countries, including Austria, where British historian David Irving was jailed in February for three years for denying the Holocaust.
Nabil Soleiman, an adviser to the ministry of religious affairs in Syria, said, "If the Holocaust ever occurred, it was a conspiracy against the Arab-Islamic world as today the Middle East is still paying the consequences."
Ahmadinejad opened Tuesday's session by thanking God that the Zionist regime was declining, telling conference participants, its lifetime will be over and their interests as well as reputation will be endangered, the Islamic Republican News Agency reported.
International condemnation continued to pour in against the government-sponsored conference in Tehran, which has drawn Holocaust deniers from around the world.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair said it was "shocking beyond belief" and called the conference "a symbol of sectarianism and hatred."
He said he saw little hope of engaging Iran in constructive action in the Middle East, saying, "I look around the region at the moment, and everything Iran is doing is negative."
The White House condemned the gathering of Holocaust deniers in Tehran as "an affront to the entire civilized world as well as to the traditional Iranian values of tolerance and respect."
A statement from press secretary Tony Snow noted the meeting coincided with International Human Rights Week, which renews the pledges of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights drafted in the wake of World War II atrocities.
"The Iranian regime perversely seeks to call the historical fact of those atrocities into question and provide a platform for hatred," Snow said.
Michele Renouf, an Australian socialite supporter of "Holocaust skeptics," called Ahmadinejad "a hero" for opening a debate about the Holocaust. Renouf, a blonde former beauty queen, addressed the audience wearing a green robe and Islamic headscarf, abiding by Iranian law requiring women to cover their hair.
Frederick Toben, an Australian who in 1999 served jail time in Germany for his Holocaust views, told the conference in no uncertain terms that the number of Jews killed in Nazi death camps an estimated 6 million is a myth.
''The number of victims at the Auschwitz concentration camp could be about 2,007,'' Toben said. ''The railroad to the camp did not have enough capacity to transfer large numbers of Jews."
Among the 67 participants from 30 countries, who included some of Europe's most prominent Holocaust deniers, were two rabbis and four other members of the fringe group Jews United Against Zionism.
They were dressed in the traditional long black coats and black hats of ultra-Orthodox Jews. The group says the creation of the state of Israel violates Jewish law and argues that the Holocaust should not be used to justify its founding.
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I get the feeling that Iran will fight with it's fanatical power to stay just the way it is.
Not everyone feels democracy is the end all to be all.
I think this may be one of the problems with Iraq. Trying to get the country to accept democracy and westernization.
Sandra
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240, you're a clown.
1. There will never be another investigation
Oh brother... you need HELP! ASAP!
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read the book 'The Nazi Doctors' by RJ Lifton - it describes the camp systems and numbers in detail and includes interviews and testimony of actual camp officials. its an interesting and extremely cold and harsh read. but it goes a long way in describing the psychology of the people and the times and how ordinary people could become efficiant killing machines.
Puller, the camp facilities were overstrained all the time especially during the hungarian shipments of 1944, when thousands of corpses had to be burned in giant open pits dug in the ground. also keep in mind that a not-insignificant number of the jewbagels included in the total were killed outside the camps.
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They started by marching them out by the hundreds into fields, and just having the soldiers execute them on the spot. They didn't go to the gas chambers and concentration camps until they started seeing the toll it was taking on the soldiers having to execute women holding their children and what not for months on end.
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I get the feeling that Iran will fight with it's fanatical power to stay just the way it is.
Not everyone feels democracy is the end all to be all.
I think this may be one of the problems with Iraq. Trying to get the country to accept democracy and westernization.
Sandra
it's plea for attention, dummy. They are westernizing by trying to build a nuclear power reactor. But the western world doesn't want that...
You obviously don't know much. Economics and technology have made western countries great, not democracy. Look at China, you can make a whole lotta money there but not speak out against the government. But human rights has gotten better in China in the last decade due to economic sucess and will eventually lead to a full democracy. People don't need stupid ideals thrown in their faces from foreigners, but rather need to learn about free market economics, which has had the single biggest impact in creating the power house that is America.
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it's plea for attention, dummy. They are westernizing by trying to build a nuclear power reactor. But the western world doesn't want that...
You obviously don't know much. Economics and technology have made western countries great, not democracy. Look at China, you can make a whole lotta money there but not speak out against the government. But human rights has gotten better in China in the last decade due to economic sucess and will eventually lead to a full democracy. People don't need stupid ideals thrown in their faces from foreigners, but rather need to learn about free market economics, which has had the single biggest impact in creating the power house that is America.
Send US, French and Russian nuclear scientists over there, I say.
Why not Israelian as well?
As long as we feel nuclear power is a-ok in the western world, there is no way we can condemn anyone else for trying to develop it.
By sharing our knowledge, we can make assure they're not getting into monkey business.
We have no use for a medieval Iran.
-Hedge
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Send US, French and Russian nuclear scientists over there, I say.
Why not Israelian as well?
As long as we feel nuclear power is a-ok in the western world, there is no way we can condemn anyone else for trying to develop it.
By sharing our knowledge, we can make assure they're not getting into monkey business.
We have no use for a medieval Iran.
-Hedge
hedge, that's the arrogance leaders like bush and his loyal band of followers have. They think they can deny anyother nation the right to power itself and better the lives of its people.
Iran is pretty transparent. They allow weapons inspectors, they want diplomacy, but Bush has rejected that everytime. If you look at things from a benevolent point of view, Bush is more dangerous than Iran.
Most Americans are good people. However, most of them have let 9/11 cloud their judgement. They think that just because they were attacked on one day, that they have the unconditional right to fuck the rest of the world over. Excuse people the people that will resist this. The same people that have just broken the shackles of imperialism in the last few decades. These people have been dealing with terrorism themselves for decades. You can't blame them for hating Bush. Before the Iraq war most loved America, now a lot of people dislike it.
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They didn't go to the gas chambers and concentration camps until they started seeing the toll it was taking on the soldiers having to execute women holding their children and what not for months on end.
Don't forget the lack of efficiency! Couldn't get enough volume done this way. I still love & have special affection for the term "special treatment". ;D
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thats admirable but naive, the truth would never prevail
you all should check out a book called masters of death, one of the most stone cold fucking reads you could imagine...doesn't detail the death camp experience, it talks about the build up to it ... from the top of my head:
the holocaust started out as laws depriving jews of rights, citizenship businesses, herding them into ghettos, making them wear yellow stars, forbidding intermarriage etc etc ... there was a night when many were openly murdered in the street(night of broken glass), i think it actually numbered in the thousands but you never know
and then they began shipping them out of germany to concentration camps (in poland mostly), and killing them in hospitals at a rate greater than that which they were doing to political dissidents, mental defects, old people, catholics, homosexuals, masons etc etc ... they had very specific quotas outline for this, and i dont think any of us can appreciate the logistical nightmare involved with shipping that many people, luckily IBM was able to produce special cards for processing prisoner numbers ;)
meanwhile outside germany, the death squads in charge of jew management were not regular soldiers, they were special "ss"(?) squads which came in after the major battling to garrison if you will .. there goal to make countries juden frei(sp?), and every country the germans invaded was happy as pigs in shit to hand them over or outright kill them(in fact i think it was latvia or lithuania who achieved the goal of killing every one in the country)... thats something you dont hear in the jew run media, the jews werent winning any popularity contests than and they sure as f**k arent now. anywho these soldiers either bribed locals or carried out the initial stages of the holocaust on their own, which was murdering people in the street. sometimes it was being gunned down outside of town, being drowned in 10,000's and sometimes it was being beaten with a giant club in the middle of a cheering town square
when one of the nazi brass witnessed this close up he said it wasnt good for soldiers mentality to be exposed to it day in and day out, ergo the rise of the conversion from concentration camps where they sent jews, gypsies, catholics etc etc into death camps focused more narrowly on jews with more remote methods of killing
if you want my best guess, several hundred thousand to several million jews were killed, it probably wasnt as many as 6 though. the jews milk to for everything it is worth and then some, and it was not just the germans.
quoted for juden
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Was Mel Gibson's old man, Hutton Gibson a guest lecturer also? ahahahh. If it wasn't so serious it would be hilarious.
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I'm sure 3333367 would have loved this man in office
This thread is THREE YEARS OLD!!!
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the holocaust was a fact. anyone who doesnt think millions of people, about half of them jews, were murdered in death camps either has doen no research or refuses to believe it. Some people do have a motive for denying its existence, which is why most Arab countries put in their history books for their children that it was a myth made up by jews to get land from palestine. This is what the Iranian president says when he speaks to his own people, but no in front of a world audience he is trying to charm
There is ZERO proof 6 million died.In fact the Jews LOVE 6 million.Because they also claim that was the number of Jews killed in another holocaust way back.A lie.