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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 11:50:49 AM

Title: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 11:50:49 AM
Is it my imagination or when BB heroes fall do they fall particularly hard?
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: columbusdude82 on March 23, 2007, 11:52:04 AM
Yup. It's sad.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: eastcoastbbman on March 23, 2007, 11:53:15 AM
pretty powerful thread, bay.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 11:53:24 AM
Sadly, it seems that way-Great pride can take a hard fall...
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BDG on March 23, 2007, 11:56:43 AM
Is it my imagination or when BB heroes fall do they fall particularly hard?

Not that I am disagreeing with you.. BUT..
You are taking the obvious exapmles, and the extreems and using it in your argument.

Why don't you look at Lee Lambrada, Frank Zane, Gaspari, Beckles, Strydom, etc etc..
All who are older BBs and all who look fine.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 11:57:25 AM
 :'(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: columbusdude82 on March 23, 2007, 11:59:25 AM
Scott klein just looked really weird towards the end. He must have been really going overboard with the drugs.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 12:00:23 PM
Not that I am disagreeing with you.. BUT..
You are taking the obvious exapmles, and the extreems and using it in your argument.

Why don't you look at Lee Lambrada, Frank Zane, Gaspari, Beckles, Strydom, etc etc..
All who are older BBs and all who look fine.

This thread is about a 'fall from grace'.  The latter guys you mentioned didn't experience a 'fall'; they just faded away.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BDG on March 23, 2007, 12:05:29 PM
This thread is about a 'fall from grace'.  The latter guys you mentioned didn't experience a 'falll; they just faded away.

I know , but perhaps I do not like the thread's premise.. When a BB you read about in the magazines when you grew up gets ill or dies, we should post about it, and we should collectively shake our heads, feel pity for those who you have mentioned, and a sense of thank god it isn't me???  Or perhaps a sense of well its their own faults for taking gear...... etc etc etc..

All atheletes Die.....  Or get itt.. Didn't Wilt Chamberland just die young?  Or Walter Payton???? 2 different sports, 2 young deaths...

I suppose I just do not like the way this thread will go......
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: ribonucleic on March 23, 2007, 12:07:38 PM
All atheletes Die.....  Or get itt.. Didn't Wilt Chamberland just die young?  Or Walter Payton????

They didn't eat a shotgun though.

DeMayo did.

 :(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: the shadow on March 23, 2007, 12:08:44 PM
jp fux should also be in this list
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 12:10:04 PM
I know , but perhaps I do not like the thread's premise.. When a BB you read about in the magazines when you grew up gets ill or dies, we should post about it, and we should collectively shake our heads, feel pity for those who you have mentioned, and a sense of thank god it isn't me???  Or perhaps a sense of well its their own faults for taking gear...... etc etc etc..

All atheletes Die.....  Or get itt.. Didn't Wilt Chamberland just die young?  Or Walter Payton???? 2 different sports, 2 young deaths...

I suppose I just do not like the way this thread will go......
Well, I can understand the point Bay is making & agree-these guys represent the sport & really fell from grace with a thud-in many cases, very sadly, like DeMayo.
But, I really like the point you make, BDG-there are some truly fine examples of atheletes in ths sport, like Lee labrada, who still looks great, has a positive attitude & is a successful businessman now.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BDG on March 23, 2007, 12:10:54 PM
They didn't eat a shotgun though.

DeMayo did.

 :(
Ouch. I forgot about that.......

Well if you are going to kill your self, dont fuck around. Do it Expediousily (sp - ala Joe Clark) and do it..
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: 240 is Back on March 23, 2007, 12:12:35 PM
BBing is one of the only sports where, when a guy retires, he looks incredibly different than he did during the glory years.  We look at NFL guys, they often look BETTER once they slim down and get healthy.  When you see a walking brick shithouse acting like a rockstar in muscle mags, turn into a 155-pound cashier, it's a huge letdown.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 12:14:42 PM
BBing is one of the only sports where, when a guy retires, he looks incredibly different than he did during the glory years.  We look at NFL guys, they often look BETTER once they slim down and get healthy.  When you see a walking brick shithouse acting like a rockstar in muscle mags, turn into a 155-pound cashier, it's a huge letdown.
I agree-you know, I saw some recent pics of Bob Paris & he apparently is not working out anymore & it just really threw me. Not judging him for not doing it any longer, but, STILL...
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Rich2 on March 23, 2007, 12:15:32 PM
thats pretty convenient reasoning tho.  you can pick out a handful of people from almost any sport/athletic organization/etc that have taken a hard fall.  bodybuilding is hardly the best example.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 12:16:01 PM
Scott klein just looked really weird towards the end. He must have been really going overboard with the drugs.
I KNOW!!! Totally agree...
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 12:16:22 PM
jp fux should also be in this list

Why?  Has he fallen?  How?   He's not dead... he's not in jail... he doesn't have a fatal diagnosis.  I'd put him in the same category as Nasser.  He's passing the baton on to the next generation and simply fading away.  That's what's supposed to happen.

I should correct my previous post though.  Strydom is not fading away (yet).  He still looks awesome!

And didn't Don Long make a comback?
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: tom joad on March 23, 2007, 12:17:55 PM
BBing is one of the only sports where, when a guy retires, he looks incredibly different than he did during the glory years.  We look at NFL guys, they often look BETTER once they slim down and get healthy.  When you see a walking brick shithouse acting like a rockstar in muscle mags, turn into a 155-pound cashier, it's a huge letdown.

clear evidence that his physique was (if not "all drugs" then . . .) mostly drugs.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: timfogarty on March 23, 2007, 12:19:58 PM
lots of young people die.  many die of drug overdoses, commit suicide, do reckless things.   you generally don't hear about it unless they're in the public eye.   when its an athlete, it's easy to say it must be the sport that caused his death.   

some athletes do die because of the sport.  that win at all cost attitude is risky.  but non athletes sometimes kill themselves because of that win at all cost attitude in their profession, what ever that profession may be.

some athlete's deaths have nothing to do with their sport.  Demayo might have ended up a heroin addict whether he had been a bodybuilder or not.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: the shadow on March 23, 2007, 12:20:40 PM
Why?  Has he fallen?  How?   He's not dead... he's not in jail... he doesn't have a fatal diagnosis.  I'd put him in the same category as Nasser.  He's passing the baton on to the next generation and simply fading away.  That's what's supposed to happen.

I should correct my previous post though.  Strydom is not fading away (yet).  He still looks awesome!

And didn't Don Long make a comback?
well jp fux's legs collapsed and eventually retired at the end..
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 12:21:55 PM
Why?  Has he fallen?  How?   He's not dead... he's not in jail... he doesn't have a fatal diagnosis.  I'd put him in the same category as Nasser.  He's passing the baton on to the next generation and simply fading away.  That's what's supposed to happen.

I should correct my previous post though.  Strydom is not fading away (yet).  He still looks awesome!

And didn't Don Long make a comback?
Gary ROCKS!
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 12:22:02 PM
well jp fux's legs collapsed and eventually retired at the end..

We all "eventually retire at the end" if we live long enough to do so.  That's not a fall from grace.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: jaejonna on March 23, 2007, 12:22:16 PM
What we dont see are the numerous casualities of BB who dont even make it anywhere and just 'chase the dream', only to fall flat on thier face and resort to male prostitution... Ask "nader99"  
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: the shadow on March 23, 2007, 12:23:43 PM
We all "eventually retire at the end" if we live long enough to do so.  That's not a fall from grace.
i think so it is..after 1998,fux was history..he placed at top 5 at the arnold 1998..he was a great bodybuilder.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: nycbull on March 23, 2007, 12:30:30 PM
BBing is one of the only sports where, when a guy retires, he looks incredibly different than he did during the glory years.  We look at NFL guys, they often look BETTER once they slim down and get healthy.  When you see a walking brick shithouse acting like a rockstar in muscle mags, turn into a 155-pound cashier, it's a huge letdown.

IT is crazy and a shock to me as well. I am confused why there isn't more study and science going into how to keep the gains. Aren't guys like Ronnie and Jay just freaked out that they will lose everything if they come off the juice. Something tells me Jay will figure out how to beat it though. I can't see him letting it all go.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 12:31:00 PM
What we dont see are the numerous casualities of BB who dont even make it anywhere and just 'chase the dream', only to fall flat on thier face and resort to male prostitution... Ask "nader99"  

Remember, we talked about that for two years in this very popular thread.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=36549.0
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 12:32:54 PM
 :'(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: tom joad on March 23, 2007, 12:35:12 PM
some meathead is going to say it so might as well get it out of the way now . . .

"at least they died doing something they love."
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BDG on March 23, 2007, 12:48:11 PM
I can't see him letting it all go.

Perhaps.... But I have been a member of this board when we had to click line by line on each responce.
I remember reading Tom Princee's posts, and they were filled with humor, and an actual desire to help others. And he goofed on Chick which is allways a good thing.......

But then Ton took ill, and I remember reading that he felt that he should have taken more baby cycles, and he felt that he should have had more time off, and that he had regret that he didn't spend thr $75 for a simple blood test (which would have helped him out).... I think he had muscle dysmorfia (sp) like a mofo, but realized then that he should have kept lighter in the off season.

I remember reading comments when Dorian shrugge off a ton of weight, and everyone wondered why he did it..
His answer, because I felt like a 70 year old at 300 lbs....  Or when Flex Wheeler went to 300 lbs, and he was so big he had to do the lazyboy with his wife, and nothing else...

I think in time, you get to a point where your body will tell you that you should shed 40 lbs and return to a more healthy weight.....for it to maintain in one's retirement.   Look at Kevin Levrone... I know everyone thinks he looks terrible, but I bet he FEELS awesome.  Or Frank Sepe.. Or.. Or. Or. I could go on.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: bmacsys on March 23, 2007, 01:04:21 PM
Because its all based on lies and illusions.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: bmacsys on March 23, 2007, 01:08:19 PM
BBing is one of the only sports where, when a guy retires, he looks incredibly different than he did during the glory years.  We look at NFL guys, they often look BETTER once they slim down and get healthy.  When you see a walking brick shithouse acting like a rockstar in muscle mags, turn into a 155-pound cashier, it's a huge letdown.

Many, many NFL players live off as many drugs as bodybuilders. Particularly very powerful painkillers. 240, I guess you haven't seen the articles in Sports Illustrated documenting retired NFL players. Many can't even walk. Earl Campbell spends most of his time in a wheelchair from the beating he took in 10 NFL seasons.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: jaejonna on March 23, 2007, 01:10:24 PM
Then there are guys like you who may choke on a 'freinds' cock.... your playing russian roulette bmascys
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: bmacsys on March 23, 2007, 01:11:33 PM
lots of young people die.  many die of drug overdoses, commit suicide, do reckless things.   you generally don't hear about it unless they're in the public eye.   when its an athlete, it's easy to say it must be the sport that caused his death.   

some athletes do die because of the sport.  that win at all cost attitude is risky.  but non athletes sometimes kill themselves because of that win at all cost attitude in their profession, what ever that profession may be.

some athlete's deaths have nothing to do with their sport.  Demayo might have ended up a heroin addict whether he had been a bodybuilder or not.

Tim, you are forgetting that a disproportionate number of bodybuilders and pro wrestlers die young compared to any way other way of making a living I can think of.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: bmacsys on March 23, 2007, 01:14:00 PM
some meathead is going to say it so might as well get it out of the way now . . .

"at least they died doing something they love."

Arvilla said that after a couple dudes bought the farm. He may have been right though because IIRC both dudes had known health issues.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: timfogarty on March 23, 2007, 01:16:13 PM
Tim, you are forgetting that a disproportionate number of bodybuilders and pro wrestlers die young compared to any way other way of making a living I can think of.

I'm not forgetting, I don't believe it's true.  you have statistics to back that up?   
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: bmacsys on March 23, 2007, 01:19:08 PM
I'm not forgetting, I don't believe it's true.  you have statistics to back that up?   

How many pro bodybuilders are there? Relatively few. But many end up in the shitter. I think its pretty obvious. For every guy who retires gracefully you find guys who get sick, go broke, commit crimes, kill people, melt down on message boards, sell drugs etc...
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Wqasz on March 23, 2007, 01:33:18 PM
I don't think I would use the word hero to describe any of those bodybuilders you posted pictures of.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 01:43:57 PM
Whether you call them 'heroes' or not is irrelevant.  Your (and I mean all of us) actions say it all: buy their magazines, go to their shows, buy their videos, discuss them on message boards, meet them at expos, send them emails, get their autographed photos, and on and on...
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Brutal_1 on March 23, 2007, 01:50:42 PM
lots of young people die.  many die of drug overdoses, commit suicide, do reckless things.   you generally don't hear about it unless they're in the public eye.   when its an athlete, it's easy to say it must be the sport that caused his death.   

some athletes do die because of the sport.  that win at all cost attitude is risky.  but non athletes sometimes kill themselves because of that win at all cost attitude in their profession, what ever that profession may be.

some athlete's deaths have nothing to do with their sport.  Demayo might have ended up a heroin addict whether he had been a bodybuilder or not.

that's a good point, and I thought about that concerning the guys posted by bayGBM. 

and well, the ONLY one listed who's demise is not totally due to bodybuilding is Craig Titus... :-\
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Pollux on March 23, 2007, 02:04:37 PM
Is it my imagination or when BB heroes fall do they fall particularly hard?

Especially Craig Titus!
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: ribonucleic on March 23, 2007, 02:06:21 PM
For every guy who retires gracefully you find guys who get sick, go broke, commit crimes, kill people, melt down on message boards, sell drugs etc...

Titus actually managed to do all of those, didn't he.  ;D
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 02:11:20 PM
Titus actually managed to do all of those, didn't he.  ;D

That is quite an achievement.  :'(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 02:12:53 PM
Very "friendly" pics of them...
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: bmacsys on March 23, 2007, 02:13:03 PM
Titus actually managed to do all of those, didn't he.  ;D

Yeah. The Triple Crown of bodybuilding!
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Mydavid on March 23, 2007, 02:15:10 PM
http://www.musclenet.com/quadzilla.htm

I took that picture ;D

Lisa
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Mr. Zimbabwe on March 23, 2007, 03:09:49 PM
Powerful thread this, Bay.

Someone needs to include pics of Sonny Schmidt and Mike Matarrazzo.  Both very personable in person.  Real tragedies.
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 03:15:35 PM
Powerful thread this, Bay.

Someone needs to include pics of Sonny Schmidt and Mike Matarrazzo.  Both very personable in person.  Real tragedies.
What happened to Mike?
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: pumpher on March 23, 2007, 03:20:27 PM
What happened to Mike?

Heart problems & congestive heart failure. He needed an emergency coronary bypass (open heart surgery). He is a bail bondsman now. Still has monster calves
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 03:25:29 PM
I seem to recall Mike had a near death experience during a show back in the 90s (diuretics?) and it was then he scaled back his supplements and decline to win at all costs. 

I wasn't familiar with his recent woes.  When did all this happen? :(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gh15 on March 23, 2007, 03:30:39 PM
thats what happened when you take out the hormones and training out of the equation,,yet leave in the narcs and painkillers,,

no diff than that whore  vicky nicole smith,,

i can assure you i wont end up this way nor ray nor kevin!! kevin is smaller but awesome shape! nor bobbie,,, ron wont end up that way either,,haney didnt end up this way,,labrada didnt either,,

IT ONLY HAPPENED TO THE COCK SUCKERS WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE AND DID THIS WHOLE THING FOR EGOTISTICAL REASONS! IT HAPPENED TO THE SAME COCK SUCKERS  THAT THOUGHT THEY WERE INVINSIBLE BODY WIZE AND THOUGHT THEY COULD NAIL AND ABUSE EVERY PERSON AROUND THEM BECAUSE THEY HAD 2-3 INCH EXTRA ON THE ARMS,,

EXCLUDE  LONG  AND MATARZZZZZZA OUT OF IT,,BOTH WERE AND STILL ARE PEOPLE WITH HUMILITY THAT REALLY LIKE BODYBUILDING,,THEY WERE JUST UNLUCKY WHEN IT CAME TO HEALTH BUT NOT BECAUSE THEY ABUSED NARCOTICS AND PAINKILLERS TO THE 10TH DEGREE
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 05:24:35 PM
 :'(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 05:28:13 PM
Heart problems & congestive heart failure. He needed an emergency coronary bypass (open heart surgery). He is a bail bondsman now. Still has monster calves
That's too bad for Mike-I hadn't heard that!
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 05:30:42 PM
:'(
What happened to Eric?
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 23, 2007, 05:50:51 PM
What happened to Eric?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=71739.0
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: gymforlord on March 23, 2007, 05:52:15 PM
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=71739.0
Thanks, Bay-I didn't know that! Way Sad!
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: LuciusFox on March 23, 2007, 06:18:59 PM
 We can only guess who is next....
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on March 24, 2007, 09:35:10 AM
The strangest fall in BB has to go to these two.  :'(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Mydavid on March 24, 2007, 12:13:27 PM
thats what happened when you take out the hormones and training out of the equation,,yet leave in the narcs and painkillers,,
IT ONLY HAPPENED TO THE COCK SUCKERS WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE AND DID THIS WHOLE THING FOR EGOTISTICAL REASONS! IT HAPPENED TO THE SAME COCK SUCKERS  THAT THOUGHT THEY WERE INVINSIBLE BODY WIZE AND THOUGHT THEY COULD NAIL AND ABUSE EVERY PERSON AROUND THEM BECAUSE THEY HAD 2-3 INCH EXTRA ON THE ARMS,,

EXCLUDE  LONG  AND MATARZZZZZZA OUT OF IT,,BOTH WERE AND STILL ARE PEOPLE WITH HUMILITY THAT REALLY LIKE BODYBUILDING,,THEY WERE JUST UNLUCKY WHEN IT CAME TO HEALTH BUT NOT BECAUSE THEY ABUSED NARCOTICS AND PAINKILLERS TO THE 10TH DEGREE

WOW!!! You are more right than you even know...Although i will say in Hans' defense that if you ever met him (and maybe you had) his outlook was so far from "IT ONLY HAPPENED TO THE COCK SUCKERS WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE AND DID THIS WHOLE THING FOR EGOTISTICAL REASONS! IT HAPPENED TO THE SAME COCK SUCKERS  THAT THOUGHT THEY WERE INVINSIBLE BODY WIZE AND THOUGHT THEY COULD NAIL AND ABUSE EVERY PERSON AROUND THEM BECAUSE THEY HAD 2-3 INCH EXTRA ON THE ARMS". He was far from that mentality. In fact he told me from the get go that he knew he wouldn't live past 50 (he died at 45).
People always ask me (no, not on this board because, believe it or not most are somewhat educated when it comes to "steroids") "did he die from "STERIODS?" and my answer is always "there were more ADDICITIONS than that going on with him".
I'll get into it more when i have some time, but shortly after he died i got a call from a TV Station in San Francisco that said they had been on THIS site and was wondering if i would be open to doing a TV program on the effects of GH to the body and how IT led to death...GOOD GOD, some people have 0 clue!!!!

Thanks for letting me share (hey, that sounds like a NA meeting ;)).

Lisa
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Rome on March 25, 2007, 06:42:14 AM
i think so it is..after 1998,fux was history..he placed at top 5 at the arnold 1998..he was a great bodybuilder.
Word?
He had great size but that's about it. His conditioning was just O.K and symmetry / balance were not his strong points. He had gone as far as he could and the accident just accelerated the inevitable. Fux would have gone the Nasser route had he stuck around for years competing. :-\
All of these old pics of the fallen are just reminders of what a crap shoot playing with large amounts of drugs can be. Some people don't suffer with the sides too much  but others...... :'(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on August 30, 2012, 08:35:34 PM
 :'(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: Parker on August 30, 2012, 08:59:52 PM
Is it my imagination or when BB heroes fall do they fall particularly hard?
You are wrong for the title of the third one
'kidneycolondead"
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=136640.0;attach=152714;image)
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: WillGrant on August 30, 2012, 09:08:02 PM
Yup. It's sad.
PIP columbusdude82  :'(
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: BayGBM on August 31, 2012, 04:41:17 PM
Jail, dead, kidney :'(

But Victor is rising from the ashes!  :D
Title: Re: Fall from grace
Post by: IceCold on August 31, 2012, 07:49:24 PM
kinda sad that you can post a pic of a few guys lined up next to each other and all have been thru some serious shit or even dead.