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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: akers1021 on March 30, 2007, 07:12:58 PM
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Why do these 130 lb wannabe's do things like walking lunges and barbell benchpress with mouthpieces in?
Tapout shirts on a 130lb beast wow....
MAXIMUM DELUSION AWARD WINNER'S of 2007.... ::)
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obviously they are not as "hardcore" as you tough guy.
why dont you go slap the mouthpieces outta their mouths and show them how to train for their sport if you know so much.
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Street fighting is NOT a sport...(NO MONEY) I would UFC up there with the "poker Championship's" on ESPN.... ::)
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Street fighting is NOT a sport...(NO MONEY) I would UFC up there with the "poker Championship's" on ESPN.... ::)
why?
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why?
Becuase it is basically for the guy with self esteem issues that was bullied around when they were younger that want to take out anger.
These yahoo's try to compare themselves with guys like Muhamid Ali, Foreman, Mike Tyson.
Do you guys realize what a REAL fighter would do to these clowns.
One punch there either dead or have a cracked skull......
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Becuase it is basically for the guy with self esteem issues that was bullied around when they were younger that want to take out anger.
These yahoo's try to compare themselves with guys like Muhamid Ali, Foreman, Mike Tyson.
Do you guys realize what a REAL fighter would do to these clowns.
One punch there either dead or have a cracked skull......
what do you mean by clowns? real ufc fighters or the tapout gear queers at the gym?
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what do you mean by clowns? real ufc fighters or the tapout gear queers at the gym?
Half the UFC guys and ALL the clowns at the gym...
I love they try to comback with a comment like "yeah but Tyson would have to catch me me first I am good with my hands"
PLEASE little boy he was TWICE as fast as any UFC clown in his prime and would DESTROY them in a fight either "street" or "ring'
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Half the UFC guys and ALL the clowns at the gym...
I love they try to comback with a comment like "yeah but Tyson would have to catch me me first I am good with my hands"
PLEASE little boy he was TWICE as fast as any UFC clown in his prime and would DESTROY them in a fight either "street" or "ring'
my take on most of the ufc dudes are that they're very shy/reserved. a lot of them come from a wrestling background in high school/college, where any kind of showboating is frowned upon. many of the world's best mma fighters you wouldn't even know ever laid a hand on someone if you saw them on the street. the showboats are just that, showboats. the guy doing lunges with a mouthpiece to me is no different than a guy with 12 inch guns wearing a wifebeater or a guy wearing a belt while doing flat bench.
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Half the UFC guys and ALL the clowns at the gym...
I love they try to comback with a comment like "yeah but Tyson would have to catch me me first I am good with my hands"
PLEASE little boy he was TWICE as fast as any UFC clown in his prime and would DESTROY them in a fight either "street" or "ring'
Okay, internet tough guy. All of the fighters you listed would be on their backs, getting what they believe is an effective guard passed and would eat a steady diet of elbows until they are unconcious. Or they would get RNCed, subbed, etc.... Not everyone who wears a tapout beanie is a fighter. Most fighters don't need to attract attention to themselves. BTW, the UFC sold 266,000,000 in PPV revenues last year. I'd say it is here to stay.
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Why do these 130 lb wannabe's do things like walking lunges and barbell benchpress with mouthpieces in?
Tapout shirts on a 130lb beast wow....
MAXIMUM DELUSION AWARD WINNER'S of 2007.... ::)
This is part of there training, all the pro Boxers at my gym lift, run, work the bag, etc. with there mouthpeice always in. It is not for protection, it is to get used to breathing hard with it in. If you always have it in when you train it won't seem hard to breath in the ring/cage.
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Street fighting is NOT a sport...(NO MONEY) I would UFC up there with the "poker Championship's" on ESPN.... ::)
Pro poker players and UFC champions both make more than all but as few BBs.
Pro UFC dudes get sponsors and MMA events earn big cash from PPV and draw huge crowds.
The fighters train a shitload harder for what they have to do than BBs, and the risks are real.
....and training with the mouthpiece in is only to get used to working at high effort and learning to breathe trhrough the nose mainly.
you are one very jealous and stupid dude. You should put in some research before you spout off random shit.
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i get UFC and think it's cool but i think people don't look at them as the best fighters because they don't make that much. I mean if you have true talent why not make 20 mil like De La Hoya for a fight instead of 3 mil like Chuck Liddell? I guess in time the pay days will be bigger as long as the sell enough PVP.
oh yeah and not enough black people do it yet to make it legit hahaha
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Half the UFC guys and ALL the clowns at the gym...
I love they try to comback with a comment like "yeah but Tyson would have to catch me me first I am good with my hands"
PLEASE little boy he was TWICE as fast as any UFC clown in his prime and would DESTROY them in a fight either "street" or "ring'
Sorry to tell you this and believe me I love boxing more than any other sport, but Fedor or Crocop would destroy Tyson in his prime. Why, simple in a boxing match Tyson would have the upper hand of course but when you add kicking and grappling something a boxer is not trained to deal with into the equation, a boxer really stands no chance. A former roomate of mine who was a great amateur boxer got his ass handed to him by a middle of the pack kickboxer. But a good boxing match is still the best sport entertainment in the world.
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A former roomate of mine who was a great amateur boxer got his ass handed to him by a middle of the pack kickboxer.
The bobbing and weaving that boxers do works well in a boxing match, but against a kickboxer you end up bobbing into a foot.
Muay Thai fighters don't bob and weave. They either block or step aside.
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The bobbing and weaving that boxers do works well in a boxing match, but against a kickboxer you end up bobbing into a foot.
Muay Thai fighters don't bob and weave. They either block or step aside.
Agreed.
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I disagree. I like MMA and all but any top teir pro would do a lot better in Pride or UFC than Crocop or Chuck would do in a boxing match. I get tired of hearing about how Tyson would get his ass handed to him. Bob Sapp beats a lot of good fighters with no skills. Imagine what a Roy Jones Jr. in his prime would do to Chuck. There is just too much speed. Just my opinion though.
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I disagree. I like MMA and all but any top teir pro would do a lot better in Pride or UFC than Crocop or Chuck would do in a boxing match.
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
It is laughable that anybody would compare the two. I am glad you agree. :)
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a pro bb would gas out in about 20 seconds and lose ... even if he didnt, with that much bulk (and consequently that little technique) he wouldnt hit as hard as a 130 lb "mma guy"
your post was about the most retarded thing i have read on here :D
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Who's this Fedor fag.got everyone is talking about?
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a pro bb would gas out in about 20 seconds and lose ... even if he didnt, with that much bulk (and consequently that little technique) he wouldnt hit as hard as a 130 lb "mma guy"
your post was about the most retarded thing i have read on here :D
CARTEL to moron. I was talking about pro BOXER!
I'm not that crazy ;D
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CARTEL to moron.
jimmy=moron ;D
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Becuase it is basically for the guy with self esteem issues that was bullied around when they were younger that want to take out anger.
These yahoo's try to compare themselves with guys like Muhamid Ali, Foreman, Mike Tyson.
Do you guys realize what a REAL fighter would do to these clowns.
One punch there either dead or have a cracked skull......
I LOVE boxing, but in a fight under mma rules, all of the great fighters you mention would get submitted in about one and a half minutes. Just long enough for a Fedor, Couture, several of the Gracies, or several other heavyweight mma fighters to walk across the ring, secure the inevitable takedown, and apply the necessary choke or submission hold. Boxers are not trained to avoid wrestling or judo takedowns and once on the ground they would be DONE.
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Pro poker players and UFC champions both make more than all but as few BBs.
Pro UFC dudes get sponsors and MMA events earn big cash from PPV and draw huge crowds.
The fighters train a shitload harder for what they have to do than BBs, and the risks are real.
....and training with the mouthpiece in is only to get used to working at high effort and learning to breathe trhrough the nose mainly.
you are one very jealous and stupid dude. You should put in some research before you spout off random shit.
You are all going to get destroyed tomorrow.
I simply LAUGH at your stupid asses, on the same level that Pat Tillman's dad does. He let me KNOW that I should call you all morons through email.
You are all morons (excluding Jakers). Deal with it.
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You are all going to get destroyed tomorrow.
I simply LAUGH at your stupid asses, on the same level that Pat Tillman's dad does. He let me KNOW that I should call you all morons through email.
You are all morons (excluding Jakers). Deal with it.
::)
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You are all going to get destroyed tomorrow.
I simply LAUGH at your stupid asses, on the same level that Pat Tillman's dad does. He let me KNOW that I should call you all morons through email.
You are all morons (excluding Jakers). Deal with it.
Huh ???
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akers
If they aggrevate you so much (that you cannot keep concentration at all), assault all of the 130 lbs tapout-wearing individuals then(just the 130 lbs ones, if they weigh 130+ it may be too risky), and let them know who akers is.
Tell them, that to be a real toughguy, you need to write a post on getbig about losing concentration about these individuals.
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oh yeah and not enough black people do it yet to make it legit hahaha
Wouldn't that mostly be due to there not being especially many black wrestlers which is the background most of these fighters seem to come from?
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Why do these 130 lb wannabe's do things like walking lunges and barbell benchpress with mouthpieces in?
Tapout shirts on a 130lb beast wow....
MAXIMUM DELUSION AWARD WINNER'S of 2007.... ::)
Why don`t you ask Nicholas "BerzerkFury" Hersh? ;D
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Wouldn't that mostly be due to there not being especially many black wrestlers which is the background most of these fighters seem to come from?
yeah seem tho only the american MMA guys are former wrestlers, i suppose it doesn't really matter what your background is since you have to know a little of everything
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yeah seem tho only the american MMA guys are former wrestlers, i suppose it doesn't really matter what your background is since you have to know a little of everything
I remember when the UFC first came our and for the first couple events it was still that style vs. style, and then people wised up and started to work on being more complete fighters. Haha, that was so long ago Ken Shamrock wasn't even washed up then.
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:(
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I remember when the UFC first came our and for the first couple events it was still that style vs. style, and then people wised up and started to work on being more complete fighters. Haha, that was so long ago Ken Shamrock wasn't even washed up then.
hahaha back in the day when you had to go thru 3 people to win a 50K check, nice way to shorten your career for no money, poor Gracie
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I grew up boxing in the local gyms, and my dad boxed for the Navy his whole career...so Ive been around it most of my life. I love boxing! But to say its WAY better than MMA, and that xyz pro boxer in his hay day would beat any of the current MMA guys is ignorant. Boxing is a great sport, but its only using half of your body in battle...MMA is using all of it. And if anyone thinks MMA isnt a sport, then neither were the gladiator battles of the Greeks and Romans. There is nothing more primal/pure.
And for the record, Fedor would MURDER Tyson at ANY point of his career. Any educated fight fan knows this. Use your head, not your heart and youll know its true.
D
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The Gracie family has 10's of millions. He did alright.
D
hahaha back in the day when you had to go thru 3 people to win a 50K check, nice way to shorten your career for no money, poor Gracie
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I grew up boxing in the local gyms, and my dad boxed for the Navy his whole career...so Ive been around it most of my life. I love boxing! But to say its WAY better than MMA, and that xyz pro boxer in his hay day would beat any of the current MMA guys is ignorant. Boxing is a great sport, but its only using half of your body in battle...MMA is using all of it. And if anyone thinks MMA isnt a sport, then neither were the gladiator battles of the Greeks and Romans. There is nothing more primal/pure.
And for the record, Fedor would MURDER Tyson at ANY point of his career. Any educated fight fan knows this. Use your head, not your heart and youll know its true.
D
A smart man says.....
A boxer better learn some takedown defense, greco, muay thai clinching skills, kicking defense, open guard, passing guard, sub defense if he would like to enter an MMA show. Good hands will help if you have adequate skills everywhere else.
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Chuck has pretty poor submission skills but walks through the UFC. I'm not saying boxers are better, Fedor is my favorite fighter for any sport. I'm just asking the question, why are we always putting a boxer in an MMA fight and not the other way around? Why should we even compare?
Put Fedor in a boxing match with a heavyweight champ, and he loses. Badly.
I'd still rather have Fedors skills though since it comes in handier.
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I remember when the UFC first came our and for the first couple events it was still that style vs. style, and then people wised up and started to work on being more complete fighters. Haha, that was so long ago Ken Shamrock wasn't even washed up then.
Those were the good ol' days when there were less rules :)
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Why do these 130 lb wannabe's do things like walking lunges and barbell benchpress with mouthpieces in?
Tapout shirts on a 130lb beast wow....
MAXIMUM DELUSION AWARD WINNER'S of 2007.... ::)
That's a post without thinking first. Maybe you should apply for the maximum stupidity award 2007. :-\
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So how is ken shamrock washed up now? is he in drugs or something?
Apart from monumental sodomizings at the hands of Tito Ortiz and still coming back for more shooting epic amounts of crap...
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A good boxing match, such as Calzaghe/Lacy or Hatton/Kost zu [or whatever the fuck hes called], will always be superior to a couple of guys rolling around on the floor. However; Fedor would DESTROY any heavyweight boxer. An impressive feat for someone that looks like a bank manager.
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haha i just saw one of these skinny tools at my gym "TAP OUT" with huge letters on a tank top and "UFC" on the shorts LOL.
And all this guy does is he goes to some kind of box/kardio thing they where they hit pads.
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Ken shamrock is over the hill . He has competed a long time in a sport where you can get old overnight. To put things into perspective. When the UFC first started in 93 , Shamrock was already huge in Japan and had a comic book written about him. Then he left for like five years to do the WWF thing. How you can fight an elite fighter with five years of ring rust and an aging body is beyond me.
Also. Lots of guys I know train in the gym with their mouth pieces in so they can get adjusted to breathing through it when exerting themselves. Of course this would be a boxing gym not a regular gym where it makes no sense.
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Who's this Fedor fag.got everyone is talking about?
if hes a fag, then god save u ;D
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This is part of there training, all the pro Boxers at my gym lift, run, work the bag, etc. with there mouthpeice always in. It is not for protection, it is to get used to breathing hard with it in. If you always have it in when you train it won't seem hard to breath in the ring/cage.
exactly.
i don't know about these '130lb guys with tap out gear', but i wouldn't read too much into the mouth guard thing.
a pure amateur boxer has a disadvantage against a kick boxer mainly because of the very bladed stance (can't check kicks.
nothing wrong with bobbing and weaving in the right setting.
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Why do these 130 lb wannabe's do things like walking lunges and barbell benchpress with mouthpieces in?
Tapout shirts on a 130lb beast wow....
MAXIMUM DELUSION AWARD WINNER'S of 2007.... ::)
We train with mouth pieces in to learn to break through our noses and now walk around wiht a slack jaw. It's habit forming to have it become second nature so you don't go breathing hard in the ring and open your mouth to get pop'd.
I wish people wouldn't talk out of their asses so much....this thread stinks.
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A good boxing match, such as Calzaghe/Lacy or Hatton/Kost zu [or whatever the fuck hes called], will always be superior to a couple of guys rolling around on the floor.
Even a bad boxing match is better than watching two guys rolling round on the floor. Thankfully the MMA craze hasn't hit over here yet :D
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We train with mouth pieces in to learn to break through our noses and now walk around wiht a slack jaw. It's habit forming to have it become second nature so you don't go breathing hard in the ring and open your mouth to get pop'd.
I wish people wouldn't talk out of their asses so much....this thread stinks.
If you're training for a fight, and you wear a mouthpiece when you fight then you should wear a mouthpiece when you train. It's MUCH different.
But I do agree that this trend has produced some wannabe's. Just let them have their fun and enjoy the sport.
Can we move this to the MMA board?
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Why don`t you ask Nicholas "BerzerkFury" Hersh? ;D
are you suggesting that if cheri arvilla said bite the curb to BF he would have no other choice but to do so and receive his kick to the back of the head heckler?
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I disagree. I like MMA and all but any top teir pro would do a lot better in Pride or UFC than Crocop or Chuck would do in a boxing match. I get tired of hearing about how Tyson would get his ass handed to him. Bob Sapp beats a lot of good fighters with no skills. Imagine what a Roy Jones Jr. in his prime would do to Chuck. There is just too much speed. Just my opinion though.
Stylstically mma would be the best because you can use more weapons, but a guy like Tyson or RJJ, has just too much speed, power, etc. THese are truly world class athletes, if someone is just on a different athletic level that you, it doesn't matter what you know. Boxing and MMA are both great sports, but right now the greatest athletes are in BOxing becasue of the money, it just makes sense, doesn't mean mma is garbage though.
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not every one is getting de la hoya money. there are a lot of fighters getting their asses kick for three hundred bucks all over the mid west. Plenty of pro's still work full time jobs because they have to. Promoters, managers , trainers and advisers rape fighters of their money and leave them will not even a pot to piss in. Tyson was a idiot, yet he is the highest grossing fighter of all time. He filed bankruptcy. Tarver was the undisputed light heavyweight of the world and he had to declare bankruptcy a few years ago. For every rags to riches tale you hear there are a million stories of fighter exploitation.
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not every one is getting de la hoya money. there are a lot of fighters getting their asses kick for three hundred bucks all over the mid west. Plenty of pro's still work full time jobs because they have to. Promoters, managers , trainers and advisers rape fighters of their money and leave them will not even a pot to piss in. Tyson was a idiot, yet he is the highest grossing fighter of all time. He filed bankruptcy. Tarver was the undisputed light heavyweight of the world and he had to declare bankruptcy a few years ago. For every rags to riches tale you hear there are a million stories of fighter exploitation.
this is very true, except, you don't really believe tarver and tyson are broke do you?
btw, imo tyson was the best managed fighter of all time prior to king ie when he was with jacobs and cayton. jews are fucking experts at management and finance. from picking the fights, training, frequency of fights, etc, i can't fault them.
problem was, tyson was so well managed he was spoilt rotten. the guy didn't have a clue how to deal with the sharks, enter don king.
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MMA is hardcore
Reason why it doesn't make as much money as boxing is because a US senator McCain thought the UFC was too violent for the US. MMA was crazy popular in Japan and Brazil before the UFC came back.
Mirko Crocop
Former Croatian anti-terrorist officer
Member of Croatian Parliament
Tyson was a great boxer but he was a thug inside out
Crocop was a guy that they called when there was terrorist situation
This was a military man; this guy was trained to take away a human life with his bare hands and feet
And if you think Bob Sapp was a bad ass, Crocop broke his face with one punch.
http://youtube.com/watch_fullscreen?video_id=IP1TMxH8jwI&l=357&t=OEgsToPDskLhVttoH0EeZ626Uu6IzIM6&sk=HpPM-dSfdtPjEn6MzR9rawU&fs=1&title=Mirko%20'Cro%20Cop'%20by%20Wamrage (http://youtube.com/watch_fullscreen?video_id=IP1TMxH8jwI&l=357&t=OEgsToPDskLhVttoH0EeZ626Uu6IzIM6&sk=HpPM-dSfdtPjEn6MzR9rawU&fs=1&title=Mirko%20'Cro%20Cop'%20by%20Wamrage)
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this is very true, except, you don't really believe tarver and tyson are broke do you?
btw, imo tyson was the best managed fighter of all time prior to king ie when he was with jacobs and cayton. jews are fucking experts at management and finance. from picking the fights, training, frequency of fights, etc, i can't fault them.
problem was, tyson was so well managed he was spoilt rotten. the guy didn't have a clue how to deal with the sharks, enter don king.
The problem with Tyson is that the core people who managed his career early on actually loved him and cared for him...then they died in a short period of time. D'Amato and then Cayton. After that...enter Don King.
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Respect BOTH sports for the combative art they are! >:(
Two of THE GREATEST in their respective art. Fedor stands NO chance against Ali in boxing, and Ali NO chance against Fedor under PRIDE/UFC rules.
"The Greatest"
Russian Beast
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UFC is ruining America. I see so many 160lb wannabes with a shaved head, goatee, pale as a sheet skin tone, and tattoos so you know they're bad. They come in the gym with a hoodie pulled over their head and do some cardio and shadow boxing. Nothing is gayer. Well, maybe a fratboy in a pink shirt but thats it.
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The problem with Tyson is that the core people who managed his career early on actually loved him and cared for him...then they died in a short period of time. D'Amato and then Cayton. After that...enter Don King.
It really went downhill for Mike when Rooney was no longer in his corner. He hired those stupid black guys that knew nothign about boxing. Mike actually called my uncle to manage him back in 88 or 89. He said no didn't have time. Kind of wish he did, I am pretty sure Mike wouldn't be in such financial problems. King fucks with everyone
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Chuck has pretty poor submission skills but walks through the UFC. I'm not saying boxers are better, Fedor is my favorite fighter for any sport. I'm just asking the question, why are we always putting a boxer in an MMA fight and not the other way around? Why should we even compare?
Put Fedor in a boxing match with a heavyweight champ, and he loses. Badly.
I'd still rather have Fedors skills though since it comes in handier.
Chuck is a purple in BJJ under Jon Lewis, Nova Uniao. He doesn't show sub skills, but has excellent sub defense. Other than the first Horn fight, when was he subbed. Chuck does well because he fights wrestling based fighters who chase him. NOW we will get to see him against more striking based fighters who will stand in front of him and not chase him for the shot. Whats the point of comparing one aspect of combat to a totality? Makes no sense to me. The specialist, under the specialists rules always wins. Put Michael Jordan up against Steve Kerr in three point shooting, who wins? In the totality of the game, who wins? Fedor is the better fighter than any heavyweight boxer, PERIOD. Have him fight a boxing match, he wouldn't even be Olympic level. PBF, who talked mad chit about MMA would get schooled by Kid, Shaolin, Sherk, Aoki, Penn, et al.
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The problem with Tyson is that the core people who managed his career early on actually loved him and cared for him...then they died in a short period of time. D'Amato and then Cayton. After that...enter Don King.
they didn't 'love him' or 'care for him'. if they did they would have made sure he was prepared for the real world and live a life after the ring.
what they did was make millions from his propensity for violence and attempt to create the ultimate fighting machine.
what occurred was a train wreck that hasn't quite ended yet (much to everyone involved's continuing embarrassment).
btw, it was jacobs that had somewhat of a personal relationship with tyson and died after d'amato, not cayton.
cayton had as little personal interaction with tyson as possible.
maybe that was one of the reasons why he left cayton after jacobs died.
king is extremely shrewd and observed how jacobs managed (hands on) tyson. becoming best friends with tyson (brutha love) whilst taking over management was a brilliant move on his part. hell, he even had tyson and some close friends move in with him - TEAM TYSON did EVERYTHING tyson wanted them to do, which was a big mistake.
WHEN THE PET PITBULL BECOMES THE ALPHA MALE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM
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Do you all realize what a REAL heavyweight fighter like Lennox Lewis would do to ANYONE from the UFC?
Those guys in the UFC can not TAKE A PUNCH like one he would hand them. That's the biggest difference. One punch from a REAL HEAVYWEIGHT BOXER and anyone in the UFC is out. With Lewis' reach advantage due to his height, I'd say no one in the UFC could take him out. You all can throw this "get him to the ground" crap out there all you want, but his reach would keep people away.
I know a guy who's ranked in the top-10 in his class for UFC that lives here on and off. He basically says that the punching power is the difference. They can't take a hit like that. He said if you matched up weight-classes the professional boxer would win 9 out of 10 times if they fought smart.
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Do you all realize what a REAL heavyweight fighter like Lennox Lewis would do to ANYONE from the UFC?
Those guys in the UFC can not TAKE A PUNCH like one he would hand them. That's the biggest difference. One punch from a REAL HEAVYWEIGHT BOXER and anyone in the UFC is out. With Lewis' reach advantage due to his height, I'd say no one in the UFC could take him out. You all can throw this "get him to the ground" crap out there all you want, but his reach would keep people away.
I know a guy who's ranked in the top-10 in his class for UFC that lives here on and off. He basically says that the punching power is the difference. They can't take a hit like that. He said if you matched up weight-classes the professional boxer would win 9 out of 10 times if they fought smart.
Wrong. You can't avoid a takedown from a great grappler when you don't know how defend against it, and it is a one-on-one scenario where the grappler knows he's fighting on a nice soft surface.
Tito Ortiz is nowhere near the best mma fighter. However in a fight with mma rules I'd give Lennox about two minutes before Lennox would be choked out. The time it takes Tito to walk across the ring and secure the choke.
Boxers definitely punch with devastating power. However, as I said before they are not prepared to defend a takedown. In addition, every punch they throw in a boxing match is not a blow with knockout power. They are used to accumulating points and inflicting damage over time due to the accumulation of punches. That is what happens when you use boxing gloves.
Lennox against a top mma fighter with a great ground game would flick a couple of light jabs that may or may not be eaten but the mma guy would still close in and get a takedown. Once on the ground, it's light's out...game over. Why do you think no heavyweight boxing champ ever took the Gracie's challenges? I bet Royce would be willing to fight Lennox under mma rules right now for $1million. Would Lennox take the challenge if it would be so easy? No.
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Do you all realize what a REAL heavyweight fighter like Lennox Lewis would do to ANYONE from the UFC?
Agreed, but how about Lennox and Couture, wrestling only? MMA clearly deduces the better (indeed smarter) overall fighter. Truer test of the man.
Has this ever really been in question?
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Agreed, but how about Lennox and Couture, wrestling only? MMA clearly deduces the better (indeed smarter) fighter. Truer test of the man.
Has this ever really been in question?
It doesn't have to be "wrestling only". Once again...
Why do you think no heavyweight boxing champ ever took the Gracie's challenges? I bet Royce would be willing to fight Lennox under mma rules right now for $1million. Would Lennox take the challenge if it would be so easy? No.
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The test as I see it: Who wins at the bar?
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Do you all realize what a REAL heavyweight fighter like Lennox Lewis would do to ANYONE from the UFC?
This is Renzo Grace vs. Maurice Smith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe46MmMp6-0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe46MmMp6-0)
Here's some background on Maurice Smith, one of the greatest heavyweight kickboxers ever. Renzo is about 5'10, 180lbs.
Maurice "Mo" Smith (born December 13, 1961) 6'2" 220lbs is first and foremost a kickboxer with a great career in kickboxing, before he crossed over to MMA. He won his first professional world title in 1983 for the W.K.C. World Kickboxing Council against then World Light-Heavyweight champoin Tony Morelli out of Canada, in Hawaii for his title, Maurice won in the seventh round with a kick knock-out, then later that year he won another title for the W.K.A. World Kickboxing Association for their Heavyweight title against then champion out of Mexico, Travis Everett with low kicks KO. Then he went almost 10 years undefeated.
Maurice Smith's punching power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cZY5I8BkRE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cZY5I8BkRE)
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It doesn't have to be "wrestling only". Once again...
I don't think we disagree.
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What if Mr. Olympia were a 'Best Biceps' contest? Kinda what we're talking here.
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Wrong. You can't avoid a takedown from a great grappler when you don't know how defend against it, and it is a one-on-one scenario where the grappler knows he's fighting on a nice soft surface.
Tito Ortiz is nowhere near the best mma fighter. However in a fight with mma rules I'd give Lennox about two minutes before Lennox would be choked out. The time it takes Tito to walk across the ring and secure the choke.
Boxers definitely punch with devastating power. However, as I said before they are not prepared to defend a takedown. In addition, every punch they throw in a boxing match is not a blow with knockout power. They are used to accumulating points and inflicting damage over time due to the accumulation of punches. That is what happens when you use boxing gloves.
Lennox against a top mma fighter with a great ground game would flick a couple of light jabs that may or may not be eaten but the mma guy would still close in and get a takedown. Once on the ground, it's light's out...game over. Why do you think no heavyweight boxing champ ever took the Gracie's challenges? I bet Royce would be willing to fight Lennox under mma rules right now for $1million. Would Lennox take the challenge if it would be so easy? No.
sorry, not that simple
1. lewis has stopped guys much much much (add in 100 more much's) better fighters than tito within one minute of the first round as have many other fighters, so that kills the blanco 'accumulation' theory right there.
2. tito ALWAYS wears strikes whilst trying to get in. he is NOT going to wear a strike from lennox. prime lennox would hit tito harder than he's ever been hit before (including car crashes).
3. you are not going to simply shoot in on lennox. sorry, but if billy blow fly smith can tag tito coming in, put the house, your mother and everything else you own on lennox catching him coming him coming in, then refer to point 2.
4. lennox is a huge (6'5" 260lb),very strong, very athletic hw. tito is NOT going to walk over and take him down with ease...please, that's just silly.
5. lennox has excellent movement laterally, forward, back, etc whilst staying extremely well balanced. if all you've got is a shoot then, basically, you're a dead man walking. lewis is precision point accurate and he will see you coming from next week.
what you need to understand here is that a professional fighter of any potential will ALWAYS go where the money is. it's not hard to figure out, make hay while the sun shines because your career is not going to last forever.
this means that the only guys that go to the ufc are rejects, has beens and never weres. the ufc is the trailer trash of the fight business, no secret there.
for fuck's sake, the ufc hw champ only gets a few grand for a fight, of which he has to pay expenses.
this is why dana white keeps recycling the same fighters over and over again. everyone else is fighting for chump change.
i have no problem with you getting your facts wrong about tyson's managers, but please don't mention tito ortiz and lennox lewis in the same sentence again.
thank you.
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for fuck's sake, the ufc hw champ only gets a few grand for a fight, of which he has to pay expenses.
Try again.
Also, the sport is growing and so is the purse. With UFC buying Pride look for better fighters and more money.
I do agree with all your other points.
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sorry, not that simple
1. lewis has stopped guys much much much (add in 100 more much's) better fighters than tito within one minute of the first round as have many other fighters, so that kills the blanco 'accumulation' theory right there.
2. tito ALWAYS wears strikes whilst trying to get in. he is NOT going to wear a strike from lennox. prime lennox would hit tito harder than he's ever been hit before (including car crashes).
3. you are not going to simply shoot in on lennox. sorry, but if billy blow fly smith can tag tito coming in, put the house, your mother and everything else you own on lennox catching him coming him coming in, then refer to point 2.
4. lennox is a huge (6'5" 260lb),very strong, very athletic hw. tito is NOT going to walk over and take him down with ease...please, that's just silly.
5. lennox has excellent movement laterally, forward, back, etc whilst staying extremely well balanced. if all you've got is a shoot then, basically, you're a dead man walking. lewis is precision point accurate and he will see you coming from next week.
what you need to understand here is that a professional fighter of any potential will ALWAYS go where the money is. it's not hard to figure out, make hay while the sun shines because your career is not going to last forever.
this means that the only guys that go to the ufc are rejects, has beens and never weres. the ufc is the trailer trash of the fight business, no secret there.
for fuck's sake, the ufc hw champ only gets a few grand for a fight, of which he has to pay expenses.
this is why dana white keeps recycling the same fighters over and over again. everyone else is fighting for chump change.
i have no problem with you getting your facts wrong about tyson's managers, but please don't mention tito ortiz and lennox lewis in the same sentence again.
thank you.
You're not welcome, 'cause you don't know shit. ::)
Every heavyweight boxing champion of the last 50 years has been challenged by the Gracie family to a fight. Not one of them would take the challenge because they know they would be taken out of their element and choked the fuck out. Your hero Lennox Lewis included.
Try to limit your posts to 50 words or less when you type bullshit. Thanks. ;)
Ortiz would choke out Lennox in record time. Period.
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they didn't take the challenge because it would be a major pay cut and they didn't care about some silly little guy that wrestles around with men
if i'm lennox lewis I wouldn't waste my time and wouldn't care what people thought because I'd be laughing all the way to the bank with my gauranteed 20 million dollar paycheck while some top mma fighter might be lucky to crack a million depending on ppv buyrates
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they didn't take the challenge because it would be a major pay cut and they didn't care about some silly little guy that wrestles around with men
if i'm lennox lewis I wouldn't waste my time and wouldn't care what people thought because I'd be laughing all the way to the bank with my gauranteed 20 million dollar paycheck while some top mma fighter might be lucky to crack a million depending on ppv buyrates
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Two reasons why people didn't take Rorion's original challenge. The million dollars offered by Rorion in Playboy was chump change to someone like Tyson. If he lost (and he would have), the lossed in revenue by getting beaten by an unknown would have been huge. It was a win-win for Rorion, knowing Tyson's camp wouldn't accept, and if he did, he had Rickson in the wings waiting to make a name for himself in America.
No heavyweight boxer would be prepared to sprawl on a good D1 level wrestler. They'd be on their backs after a jab.
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Two reasons why people didn't take Rorion's original challenge. The million dollars offered by Rorion in Playboy was chump change to someone like Tyson. If he lost (and he would have), the lossed in revenue by getting beaten by an unknown would have been huge. It was a win-win for Rorion, knowing Tyson's camp wouldn't accept, and if he did, he had Rickson in the wings waiting to make a name for himself in America.
No heavyweight boxer would be prepared to sprawl on a good D1 level wrestler. They'd be on their backs after a jab.
The point that economically the money offered the heavyweight champ in a Gracie challenge would be chump change is not in dispute. Everyone knows that. Nevertheless it doesn't nullify my REAL point that one of the reasons they would not take the Gracies challenge is that they would lose. Easily and convincingly.
Boxing fans that don't understand or respect high-level grappling and mma fail to understand how difficult it is to avoid being taken down. A one on one confrontation on a comfortable surface with plenty of space to operate is tailor made for a grappler...and the Gracies (as well as top wrestlers) are MASTERS of that scenario. Lennox Lewis and all his great footwork would be flat on his back shortly against Royce Gracie.
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The point that economically the money offered the heavyweight champ in a Gracie challenge would be chump change is not in dispute. Everyone knows that. Nevertheless it doesn't nullify my REAL point that one of the reasons they would not take the Gracies challenge is that they would lose. Easily and convincingly.
Boxing fans that don't understand or respect high-level grappling and mma fail to understand how difficult it is to avoid being taken down. A one on one confrontation on a comfortable surface with plenty of space to operate is tailor made for a grappler...and the Gracies (as well as top wrestlers) are MASTERS of that scenario. Lennox Lewis and all his great footwork would be flat on his back shortly against Royce Gracie.
Being a Gracie student and a Relson jockrider, Royce's takedowns were terrible compared to fighters like Kevin Randleman, Matt Lindland, Randy. No one was prepared for the ground game in 1993. If we look back and see how easily Royce beat some of the "toughmen" who entered the SEG UFC, we can see that someone like Aoki, Penn, Garcia are light years ahead of them. As the game continues, better and better athletes will be attracted to the sport. Being good at all ranges, and mastering one seems to be common thread amongst today's champs. Like it was previously opined, boxing is like HUGE Biceps, it is only one part of the whole. So in a boxing match, boxer wins, in an all out fight, where you can be thrown on a fire hydrant in the street, or double legged on the pavement, game over...
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Being a Gracie student and a Relson jockrider, Royce's takedowns were terrible compared to fighters like Kevin Randleman, Matt Lindland, Randy. No one was prepared for the ground game in 1993. If we look back and see how easily Royce beat some of the "toughmen" who entered the SEG UFC, we can see that someone like Aoki, Penn, Garcia are light years ahead of them. As the game continues, better and better athletes will be attracted to the sport. Being good at all ranges, and mastering one seems to be common thread amongst today's champs. Like it was previously opined, boxing is like HUGE Biceps, it is only one part of the whole. So in a boxing match, boxer wins, in an all out fight, where you can be thrown on a fire hydrant in the street, or double legged on the pavement, game over...
I never suggested Royce had the best takedowns. However, he WOULD take down Lennox Lewis.
I also disagree that on the street the grappler always wins. On the street, grappling ain't always the wisest course of action. Try grappling after a confrontation in a crowded niteclub, and you'd be an idiot. In that environment I'd put my money on a pro boxer. ;)
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Being a Gracie student and a Relson jockrider, Royce's takedowns were terrible ...
Why don't these cats just trade the big Rs and Hs altogether?
Like Handy Couture did.
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You're not welcome, 'cause you don't know shit. ::)
Every heavyweight boxing champion of the last 50 years has been challenged by the Gracie family to a fight. Not one of them would take the challenge because they know they would be taken out of their element and choked the fuck out. Your hero Lennox Lewis included.
Try to limit your posts to 50 words or less when you type bullshit. Thanks. ;)
Ortiz would choke out Lennox in record time. Period.
i agree with the premise that more weapons = more chances, but to say ortiz walks over and takes down prime lennox shows complete ignorance on your part.
i am not a lennox guy, not even a big fan, but you are talking about a freak athlete at the top of his game vs trailor trash and i have made my points on that.
one question, how the fuck do you think ortiz is going to wear a left hook, right hand or uppercut from lewis whilst attempting to shoot in? because you do know he will don't you ???
hell, he won't get past lewis' jab.
if you gave me a scenario of fedor vs prime lewis i'd agree with you.
remember, the greatest potential goes where the money is. ;)
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there is a special forces guy<s> out someplace..somewhere..
prolly more than 1....
or 10....
that'd make ken shamrock and the likes cry like a wittle baby...
nuff said.
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i agree with the premise that more weapons = more chances, but to say ortiz walks over and takes down prime lennox shows complete ignorance on your part.
i am not a lennox guy, not even a big fan, but you are talking about a freak athlete at the top of his game vs trailor trash and i have made my points on that.
one question, how the fuck do you think ortiz is going to wear a left hook, right hand or uppercut from lewis whilst attempting to shoot in? because you do know he will don't you ???
hell, he won't get past lewis' jab.
if you gave me a scenario of fedor vs prime lewis i'd agree with you.
remember, the greatest potential goes where the money is. ;)
Answer: Because Lennox would not get all those punches off against Tito before he'd be on his back, genius. ::)
"Freak BOXING athlete" in a mma bout (with no training in grappling defense) against a highly skilled mma fighter equals boxer getting choked the fuck out. Period.
The only person completely "ignorant" is you. Gracies have had pro boxers come into their schools and be humbled when they are taken to the mat and submitted. I know because I've trained with couple of Gracies. I know the stories. They were challenged countless times over the years, as well as having fighters come in who were just curious whether they match up with them. I also believe I know more about the relationship of grappling, striking and other aspects of the martial arts than you do from my experiences. But...that is just one Latino's opinion. ;D
You may not like Tito Ortiz, and neither do I. But you don't have go all the way up to the likes of Fedor to find a mma fighter that would take out Lennox Lewis. Many others one or two notches below a Fedor or Crocop would make Lennox tap out. And Lennox Lewis is no Muhammed Ali anyway.
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Answer: Because Lennox would not get all those punches off against Tito before he'd be on his back, genius. ::)
"Freak BOXING athlete" in a mma bout (with no training in grappling defense) against a highly skilled mma fighter equals boxer getting choked the fuck out. Period.
The only person completely "ignorant" is you. Gracies have had pro boxers come into their schools and be humbled when they are taken to the mat and submitted. I know because I've trained with couple of Gracies. I know the stories. They were challenged countless times over the years, as well as having fighters come in who were just curious whether they match up with them. I also believe I know more about the relationship of grappling, striking and other aspects of the martial arts than you do from my experiences. But...that is just one Latino's opinion. ;D
You may not like Tito Ortiz, and neither do I. But you don't have go all the way up to the likes of Fedor to find a mma fighter that would take out Lennox Lewis. Many others one or two notches below a Fedor or Crocop would make Lennox tap out. And Lennox Lewis is no Muhammed Ali anyway.
tito doesn't get past lennox's jab. i won't even mention his power shots.
as i said, i agree with the premise ie more weapons (especially ground game), but you fucked up when you mentioned 'i have no defence to a punch' tito ortiz taking down lennox lewis.
middleweight wannabe forrest whitaker can rock tito but one of the most powerful punchers in hw history, lennox lewis won't.
you need to get a clue. ;)
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I never suggested Royce had the best takedowns. However, he WOULD take down Lennox Lewis.
I also disagree that on the street the grappler always wins. On the street, grappling ain't always the wisest course of action. Try grappling after a confrontation in a crowded niteclub, and you'd be an idiot. In that environment I'd put my money on a pro boxer. ;)
Grappling may be a throw from the clinch, greco over/under, muay thai plum, seo nage. On the streets, this may be sufficient.
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tito doesn't get past lennox's jab. i won't even mention his power shots.
as i said, i agree with the premise ie more weapons (especially ground game), but you fucked up when you mentioned 'i have no defence to a punch' tito ortiz taking down lennox lewis.
middleweight wannabe forrest whitaker can rock tito but one of the most powerful punchers in hw history, lennox lewis won't.
you need to get a clue. ;)
Yep, mma hs clearly shown that great strikers can easily beat even mediocre grapplers with a great jab and amazing punching power. ::) After all, just like in the movies it only takes one or two punches and the opponent is knocked out, right?
It is always entertaining to chat with those who think they know yet don't have two things...experience or a clue. :P Now I am done conversing with you.
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Yep, mma hs clearly shown that great strikers can easily beat even mediocre grapplers with a great jab and amazing punching power. ::) After all, just like in the movies it only takes one or two punches and the opponent is knocked out, right?
It is always entertaining to chat with those who think they know yet don't have two things...experience or a clue. :P Now I am done conversing with you.
ha ha, yes it has actually.
or maybe i was seeing things when i saw liddell beat seven shades of shit out of your tito ortiz...with his fists. :o
how many fights did belfort win standing up? mmmm...mustn't have fought any 'mediocre grapplers' on his way to the lt hw title i suppose? how long did it take vitor to just about take couture's eye out with, umm, a single punch.
wasn't your great grappling homo erotic fantasy, royce gracie ktfo by a single punch?
suppose gracie and couture were less than 'mediocre grapplers' though ::)
funny thing is, none of these strikers were in the same zip code as lennox in striking ability.
ms blanco, you continue to demonstrate your complete ignorance on martial arts with every reply so maybe it is best that you stfu now. ;)
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tito doesn't get past lennox's jab. i won't even mention his power shots.
as i said, i agree with the premise ie more weapons (especially ground game), but you fucked up when you mentioned 'i have no defence to a punch' tito ortiz taking down lennox lewis.
middleweight wannabe forrest whitaker can rock tito but one of the most powerful punchers in hw history, lennox lewis won't.
you need to get a clue. ;)
Jeremy "Half Man, Half Amazing" Williams, sparring Lennox Lewis. Judo+boxing>boxing by itself.
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this is getting to be a very old argument. Jeremy Williams may very well be able to beat Lennox....but Lennox has millions upon millions of dollars it doesnt matter. Lennox could buy Jeremy if he wanted to and turn him into his butler.
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this is getting to be a very old argument. Jeremy Williams may very well be able to beat Lennox....but Lennox has millions upon millions of dollars it doesnt matter. Lennox could buy Jeremy if he wanted to and turn him into his butler.
Wouldn't have posted it unless people wouldn't argue that Lennox/Tyson/PBF would connect with a monster combo prior to getting taken down. And just for good measure, we have the Semy/Fedor fight. For neophytes, Semy is the K1 champ. &mode=related&search=
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Wouldn't have posted it unless people wouldn't argue that Lennox/Tyson/PBF would connect with a monster combo prior to getting taken down. And just for good measure, we have the Semy/Fedor fight. For neophytes, Semy is the K1 champ. &mode=related&search=
americanbulldog, i respect your input on this board. you are one of the few that DO know what you're talking about.
just to be clear, i have never said that having less weapons at your disposal ie boxing is greater than mma.
my point was re tito vs lennox and i have stated two this would go down imo.
jeremy williams is an excellent top flight experienced boxer and a very big strong hw. he was actually very close to lewis' class (at time of sparring) and actually does know how to get past lewis' arsenal (team lewis is not going to pay for a moving punching bag). please don't think that tito would be able to do the same thing.
now lennox is an arrogant prick so there's a good chance he would die laughing when he saw tito's defence, but a switched on ready lewis = dead tito.
the fact that lewis and williams were sparring for a BOXING fight is an important thing to consider also.
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americanbulldog, i respect your input on this board. you are one of the few that DO know what you're talking about.
just to be clear, i have never said that having less weapons at your disposal ie boxing is greater than mma.
my point was re tito vs lennox and i have stated two this would go down imo.
jeremy williams is an excellent top flight experienced boxer and a very big strong hw. he was actually very close to lewis' class (at time of sparring) and actually does know how to get past lewis' arsenal (team lewis is not going to pay for a moving punching bag). please don't think that tito would be able to do the same thing.
now lennox is an arrogant prick so there's a good chance he would die laughing when he saw tito's defence, but a switched on ready lewis = dead tito.
the fact that lewis and williams were sparring for a BOXING fight is an important thing to consider also.
What makes Liddell great is his takedown defense. His takedown defense is so good because he was a D1 wrestler. He is a very unorthodox fighter who fights with his hands down with little head movement. When he does shift out, his hands are by his waist guarding centerline (why, to defend the single, double, ankle pick). He is a counterpuncher by nature and throws only full power shots (with the exception of that probing jab that sets up his overhand right, left hook combo). The reason he beat Tito so badly is they were friends, training partners, and he knows Tito's game. He knows Tito is afraid of being clipped, and expects the shot. Is Page that much of a better striker than Liddell? No, but Page, stylistically matches up better with Liddell. Page sets up his slams, and takedowns with his striking. Page is willing to stand in front of Chuck, and unlike EVERYONE Chuck has fought of late outside of Pride, (Only exception being Tiger White, who is a small LHWY who actually caught Chuck a couple of times) are grappling based fighters.
Lennox would stand no chance against Fedor, Fujita, Josh, Mirko, Aleks, Sergei, Vera. Take the best of the breed from boxing and put them into a no holds barred scenario, and 9.99 times out of ten, the MMA fighter takes it. ODH, PBF would be mincemeat for BJ Penn. Make no mistake about it boxingphiles (I am one of them), but the well rounded athlete, with greater skillset will win. (The x factor is athleticism) Would PBF be a force if he got training, HELLYEAH! Guys a stud. Would a Cus D'Amato trained Mike Tyson if he got to train with Carlson Gracie been a load to handle? Unstoppable.... So lets stop arguing a moot point (it should be a mute point), I'd take a young Renzo Gracie over a young Mike Tyson anyday. Renzo with NHB rules before athletic commision rules was an ANIMAL.
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Here is the myspace account of Brian Esponiza, a guy, who when he was a blue choked out Fernando Vargas. I am searching for the article as we speak. http://www.myspace.com/fredo4330. BTW, he is a black now. ;D
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What makes Liddell great is his takedown defense. His takedown defense is so good because he was a D1 wrestler. He is a very unorthodox fighter who fights with his hands down with little head movement. When he does shift out, his hands are by his waist guarding centerline (why, to defend the single, double, ankle pick). He is a counterpuncher by nature and throws only full power shots (with the exception of that probing jab that sets up his overhand right, left hook combo). The reason he beat Tito so badly is they were friends, training partners, and he knows Tito's game. He knows Tito is afraid of being clipped, and expects the shot. Is Page that much of a better striker than Liddell? No, but Page, stylistically matches up better with Liddell. Page sets up his slams, and takedowns with his striking. Page is willing to stand in front of Chuck, and unlike EVERYONE Chuck has fought of late outside of Pride, (Only exception being Tiger White, who is a small LHWY who actually caught Chuck a couple of times) are grappling based fighters.
Lennox would stand no chance against Fedor, Fujita, Josh, Mirko, Aleks, Sergei, Vera. Take the best of the breed from boxing and put them into a no holds barred scenario, and 9.99 times out of ten, the MMA fighter takes it. ODH, PBF would be mincemeat for BJ Penn. Make no mistake about it boxingphiles (I am one of them), but the well rounded athlete, with greater skillset will win. (The x factor is athleticism) Would PBF be a force if he got training, HELLYEAH! Guys a stud. Would a Cus D'Amato trained Mike Tyson if he got to train with Carlson Gracie been a load to handle? Unstoppable.... So lets stop arguing a moot point (it should be a mute point), I'd take a young Renzo Gracie over a young Mike Tyson anyday. Renzo with NHB rules before athletic commision rules was an ANIMAL.
no argument
more weapons = more advantages = no brainer
however, you have to factor in effectiveness of weapons, calibre of fighter and size/weight division. the x factor is huge in these types sports and the guys with real talent are not going anywhere near the octagon. even boxing is suffering a sharp decline in talent due to too many reasons to elaborate on here.
in the octagon scenario tito is going to get caught by a focused lennox very quickly, he is going to be on queer street and he's not going to find anything but more of the same when he shoots. lewis has never had a problem finishing those beneath him quickly and when i'm talking those 'beneath him', i'm talking about guys that would have tito for breakfast standing up eg. golota, grant, mccall, etc.
in a phone booth, different story.
best vs best ie prime tyson/lewis/ali/whoever vs fedor in mma - w fedor 9/10.
pbf vs prime benn - not even close. as good as pbf is, he has nothing to stop benn from taking him down. it'd be quick and brutal which is exactly why this type of scenario will never happen.
there is no motivation whatsoever for a guy of pbf's ability to go anywhere but boxing.
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no argument
more weapons = more advantages = no brainer
however, you have to factor in effectiveness of weapons, calibre of fighter and size/weight division. the x factor is huge in these types sports and the guys with real talent are not going anywhere near the octagon. even boxing is suffering a sharp decline in talent due to too many reasons to elaborate on here.
in the octagon scenario tito is going to get caught by a focused lennox very quickly, he is going to be on queer street and he's not going to find anything but more of the same when he shoots. lewis has never had a problem finishing those beneath him quickly and when i'm talking those 'beneath him', i'm talking about guys that would have tito for breakfast standing up eg. golota, grant, mccall, etc.
in a phone booth, different story.
best vs best ie prime tyson/lewis/ali/whoever vs fedor in mma - w fedor 9/10.
pbf vs prime benn - not even close. as good as pbf is, he has nothing to stop benn from taking him down. it'd be quick and brutal which is exactly why this type of scenario will never happen.
there is no motivation whatsoever for a guy of pbf's ability to go anywhere but boxing.
Unless Lennox has TD defense, he will get taken down all day. Milos Savage/Gene LeBell all over again.
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Unless Lennox has TD defense, he will get taken down all day. Milos Savage/Gene LeBell all over again.
;)
After all, the "Beast" says you're the only one who knows what he's talking about...
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;)
After all, the "Beast" says you're the only one who knows what he's talking about...
Leave the noobs alone. ;D
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;)
After all, the "Beast" says you're the only one who knows what he's talking about...
now now blanco, don't get your special, personally autographed by royce gracie, tap out branded, pink knickers in a knot. i didn't say he was the 'only one', but he usually comes with a balanced and informed point of view. when someone comes out with matchups like tito vs lennox at prime and tito simply walking over and taking him down i do have to question who actually knows what around here.
believe me, i have no bias towards boxing, but i like to think i'm a realist and this is nowhere near a realistic outcome to the above scenario.
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Unless Lennox has TD defense, he will get taken down all day. Milos Savage/Gene LeBell all over again.
savage + le bell < stoned on premium hydro lennox lewis
hope this helps
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now now blanco, don't get your special, personally autographed by royce gracie, tap out branded, pink knickers in a knot. i didn't say he was the 'only one', but he usually comes with a balanced and informed point of view. when someone comes out with matchups like tito vs lennox at prime and tito simply walking over and taking him down i do have to question who actually knows what around here.
believe me, i have no bias towards boxing, but i like to think i'm a realist and this is nowhere near a realistic outcome to the above scenario.
Unlike you with your Lennox Lewis personally splooged, unwashed pink polo that you keep loving wrapped in plastic for the fond memory of when Lennox jizzed all over your mouth and shirt. How did it feel sucking him off? I bet you felt just like Monica Lewinsky when she kept the stained dress of Bill Clinton's splooge to remember the occasion. :D
You don't know jack shit, you fake-ass "Beast". ::) You can argue until you're blue in the face ONE matchup that I still maintain Tito would dominate. It is beside the point. The dominance from wrestlers and Brazilian jiu-jitsu practioners over strikers in clear and obvious in mma when the strikers are untrained in takedown defense.
How much training have you actually put in "Beast"? I'm talking aside from shadowboxing in your mom's pink panties to a Lennox Lewis highlight reel. ::) Grapplers will ALWAYS dominate in a one-on-one controlled environment on a soft surface against a boxer with no takedown defense. I've seen it first hand and done it firsthand. A striker has a strikers chance...one lucky shot before the shoot-in and the takedown. After that it's lights out, game over. Take Lennox's nuts out of your mouth and realize that Lennox's "foot speed" is great for boxing, but against a D1 wrestler will have him flat on his back and then submitted.
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Unlike you with your Lennox Lewis personally splooged, unwashed pink polo that you keep loving wrapped in plastic for the fond memory of when Lennox jizzed all over your mouth and shirt. How did it feel sucking him off? I bet you felt just like Monica Lewinsky when she kept the stained dress of Bill Clinton's splooge to remember the occasion. :D
You don't know jack shit, you fake-ass "Beast". ::) You can argue until you're blue in the face ONE matchup that I still maintain Tito would dominate. It is beside the point. The dominance from wrestlers and Brazilian jiu-jitsu practioners over strikers in clear and obvious in mma when the strikers are untrained in takedown defense.
How much training have you actually put in "Beast"? I'm talking aside from shadowboxing in your mom's pink panties to a Lennox Lewis highlight reel. ::) Grapplers will ALWAYS dominate in a one-on-one controlled environment on a soft surface against a boxer with no takedown defense. I've seen it first hand and done it firsthand. A striker has a strikers chance...one lucky shot before the shoot-in and the takedown. After that it's lights out, game over. Take Lennox's nuts out of your mouth and realize that Lennox's "foot speed" is great for boxing, but against a D1 wrestler will have him flat on his back and then submitted.
just who the fuck is 'benny blanco'?
do you work at mcdonalds and practice subs on the 14 yr old trainees?
when you next attend your once a week Brazilian jiu-jitsu class, ask your trainer to recommend you to a real trainer and when you get there, ask that trainer to recommend you to a real trainer and so on until you get to someone that actually trains competitive mma fighters.
ask that guy how tito ortiz vs prime lennox lewis is going to go down in the octagon. remember, just that matchup.
when you've done that, get back to me with his name and credentials and i'll call him myself.
until then, take your own advice and stfu.
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just who the fuck is 'benny blanco'?
do you work at mcdonalds and practice subs on the 14 yr old trainees?
when you next attend your once a week Brazilian jiu-jitsu class, ask your trainer to recommend you to a real trainer and when you get there, ask that trainer to recommend you to a real trainer and so on until you get to someone that actually trains competitive mma fighters.
ask that guy how tito ortiz vs prime lennox lewis is going to go down in the octagon. remember, just that matchup.
when you've done that, get back to me with his name and credentials and i'll call him myself.
until then, take your own advice and stfu.
Who the fuck is "Beast 8692"? Who gives a fuck about your dumbass opinion? Once again, I ask what have you trained in besides your mother's pink panties? How long have you trained in the martial arts? How many times have you jerked off to a Lennox Lewis highlight reel, you fuckin' f@ggot? You sound like that bitch-azz BerzerkFury, who gets all his knowledge off Sherdog and youtube vids instead of actual training.
I think you should take my advice and lick my hairy nuts. I ain't goin' nowhere. You can shut me down on this thread when you prove you know what you're talking about. You talk like a boxer can stick and move and keep grappler off of him somehow...without learning takedown defense. That has been proven incorrect so many times that your mental retardation is self-evident. Are you sure you're not related to Tommy Hearns? You write the way he talks...like a punch-drunk fool.
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Are you sure you're not related to Tommy Hearns? You write the way he talks...like a punch-drunk fool.
That shit was funny as hell.
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I think you should take my advice and lick my hairy nuts. I ain't goin' nowhere. You can shut me down on this thread when you prove you know what you're talking about. You talk like a boxer can stick and move and keep grappler off of him somehow...without learning takedown defense. That has been proven incorrect so many times that your mental retardation is self-evident. Are you sure you're not related to Tommy Hearns? You write the way he talks...like a punch-drunk fool.
Taking out the part about hairy nuts, retardation and any other insults, I agree wholeheartedly with your asertion. A good TD guy will get a good striker down 99.99% of the time. The striker has a striker's chance, and not a very good one at that because when you are moving, you can't get your body behind the punch, kick. Boxers, especially, who on on their toes, will have the hardest time. Most people don't realize that Chuck's takedown defense (other than grabbing the fence) is based on the fact that he was a D1 wrestler.
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Taking out the part about hairy nuts, retardation and any other insults, I agree wholeheartedly with your asertion. A good TD guy will get a good striker down 99.99% of the time. The striker has a striker's chance, and not a very good one at that because when you are moving, you can't get your body behind the punch, kick. Boxers, especially, who on on their toes, will have the hardest time. Most people don't realize that Chuck's takedown defense (other than grabbing the fence) is based on the fact that he was a D1 wrestler.
Agreed anyone who has only trained throwing punches and knowing how to cut angles...etc... Doesnt have a very good chance of staying on there feet. If a wrestler shoots and grabs a single leg. What is the boxer going to do, throw puncehs. And a single leg is pretty simple to step into and out of... That is with training. Sure the boxer could land his one shot, but that's about all the more chance he has is one shot. A guy like Hendo could take a good shot and then grab you and put you thru the mat with a good G&P
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Agreed anyone who has only trained throwing punches and knowing how to cut angles...etc... Doesn't have a very good chance of staying on there feet. If a wrestler shoots and grabs a single leg. What is the boxer going to do, throw punches. And a single leg is pretty simple to step into and out of... That is with training. Sure the boxer could land his one shot, but that's about all the more chance he has is one shot. A guy like Hendo could take a good shot and then grab you and put you thru the mat with a good G&P
Straight boxer against a wrestling based fighter, the boxer would be backing up, or moving side to side to avoid the shot. If that is the case, the punch he throws wouldn't have much on it because he couldn't set and throw. It's not like a boxer will attempt a flying knee, that isn't in his repertoire.
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having take down defence is important, IF your oponent has a reasonable chance of shooting in on you.
tito is not going to get past lennox's broom stick. i've never seen lennox up on his toes ie ali flicking shots. what lennox does is stay at a distance behind a probing potent jab and use angles to det his power shots. i have NEVER seen someone of tito's standup defence and size get close to prime lennox and it's not happening this time, sorry. despite what blanco says lennox has never had a problem disposing those beneath his class very very quickly when he was focused.
disclaimer: i am NOT a lewis fan or a boxing delusionist. i am strictly confining debating blanco's assertion re tito vs lennox, specifically that tito simply walks over and takes lennox down.
blanco, please feel free to meltdown all you want, but it's not going to serve your purpose ie diversion. you asked for credentials so let me see yours.
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^^^Tito was able to takedown Wandy, Vitor, Guy Mezger, Ken Shammy, Yuki Kondo, Vlad Matsushenko (who is an olympic level wrestler) at will. These are guys who can punch, kick, clinch and have takedown defense. I think Tito wouldn't have any trouble taking Lennox down unless he had a great sprawl, could get underhooks, knew about the plum, whizzer, could crossface, and even then would get taken down. Ortiz would POUND Lennox from within Lennox's guard to get a UD or a TKO. Especially with Lennox's head up against the fence.
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Why do these 130 lb wannabe's do things like walking lunges and barbell benchpress with mouthpieces in?
Tapout shirts on a 130lb beast wow....
MAXIMUM DELUSION AWARD WINNER'S of 2007.... ::)
What makes u think you know jack sh*T about anything ??? You never trained a day in your life get a clue!
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^^^Tito was able to takedown Wandy, Vitor, Guy Mezger, Ken Shammy, Yuki Kondo, Vlad Matsushenko (who is an olympic level wrestler) at will. These are guys who can punch, kick, clinch and have takedown defense. I think Tito wouldn't have any trouble taking Lennox down unless he had a great sprawl, could get underhooks, knew about the plum, whizzer, could crossface, and even then would get taken down. Ortiz would POUND Lennox from within Lennox's guard to get a UD or a TKO. Especially with Lennox's head up against the fence.
belfort was (at one time) a technically decent striker (that was given to lapses in concentration and had mediocre heart). shamrock was (an excellent all rounder with a ton of heart), wandi is (see shamrock description). the rest, don't bother.
NONE of them should even be mentioned in the same paragraph as lennox. seriously, do you really think any of those guys would even be sparring with prime lennox standup? lennox would be commiting a criminal offence if he did.
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Rofl, today was back day and then I went upstairs to walk on the treadmill for 45min. Im walking on a treadmill and this UFC wannabe gets on the treadmill next to me. He looked very cliche - had a shaved head, and some wierd kind of sweatband around his forehead that I havent seen before. Looked like a total UFC wannabe. Anyways, while hes jogging on the treadmill he actually shadow-boxed a few times. Then he did alot of rotating between treadmills, stationairy bikes and eliptical machines, never forgetting to do a little shadow boxing before getting on the next machine.
Seriously, do those guys think they are cool or something? Guy looked like a total assclown
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whats the point of this rubbish, "he can kick his ass" he would win over him" blabla. Who fuckin cares. Just get a gun or better a shotgun and it is all over.
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whats the point of this rubbish, "he can kick his ass" he would win over him" blabla. Who fuckin cares. Just get a gun or better a shotgun and it is all over.
If I confront you in a nightclub or on the sidewalk, do you always have a readily available sidearm cocked and loaded for you to fire? What if I punch you in your mouth and you stagger backwards, and as you start to fall I see you trying to reach for your gun tucked in the small of your back? We end up wrestling for it and I get control of the weapon and shoot YOUR ass with it?
My point is...a gun is neither always available or the proper use of force in every situation. I guy punches you in the jaw and you shoot him, you better have a sympathetic jury or you're going to jail.
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If I confront you in a nightclub or on the sidewalk, do you always have a readily available sidearm cocked and loaded for you to fire? What if I punch you in your mouth and you stagger backwards, and as you start to fall I see you trying to reach for your gun tucked in the small of your back? We end up wrestling for it and I get control of the weapon and shoot YOUR ass with it?
My point is...a gun is neither always available or the proper use of force in every situation. I guy punches you in the jaw and you shoot him, you better have a sympathetic jury or you're going to jail.
hmm ok, I dont carry a gun,but some of my friends do, and theire seldomly alone so if you jump on one of them... U know. Anyway my point is thi, why even bother fighting its so patehtich. Look you got two scenarios; either the guy you jump on is a chicken and cant fight-you punch him anyway-he will call the police-you go to jail secondly you jump on the wrong fuckin guy-you get killed . So theres your picks go to jail or get killed.
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hmm ok, I dont carry a gun,but some of my friends do, and theire seldomly alone so if you jump on one of them... U know. Anyway my point is thi, why even bother fighting its so patehtich. Look you got two scenarios; either the guy you jump on is a chicken and cant fight-you punch him anyway-he will call the police-you go to jail secondly you jump on the wrong fuckin guy-you get killed . So theres your picks go to jail or get killed.
So you'll rely on your "buddies" to be around to save you with a readily available firearm should you get in an altercation? ::) I have seen several instances where that just wouldn't have been possible. I also know that your "two scenarios" is not entirely accurate either.
As Bruce Lee said , you can always "hire a bodyguard or lead a less aggressive life" to make yourself safe. In most options you also have the option to walk or run away. That might be a bit embarrassing in front of the wife or kids, however. :P Do what you want to do, but don't knock those who like to train for self defense. Most so-called "fighters" train for sport, to get in shape, or for the discipline anyway. Few nowadays train with a true martial mindset.
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So you'll rely on your "buddies" to be around to save you with a readily available firearm should you get in an altercation? ::) I have seen several instances where that just wouldn't have been possible. I also know that your "two scenarios" is not entirely accurate either.
As Bruce Lee said , you can always "hire a bodyguard or lead a less aggressive life" to make yourself safe. In most options you also have the option to walk or run away. That might be a bit embarrassing in front of the wife or kids, however. :P Do what you want to do, but don't knock those who like to train for self defense. Most so-called "fighters" train for sport, to get in shape, or for the discipline anyway. Few nowadays train with a true martial mindset.
I agree with most of this. Hey Freak what happens if you and your wife (if you have one) (if not yoru girlfirend or whatever you have) the two of you are walking home and you get jumped or you get mugged. That's one reason to train. Lets say your in a bar and some drunk asshole comes over and starts the fight with you.. Aww another good reason. Hell what if some idiot pulls a knife on you adn yoru by yourself. Might want to know how to defend yourself once again. Think of it as driving, Most people drive defensivley because you never know what the other idiot driving is gonna do.. Same thing in life you never know what another idiot is gonna do and I personally train to be able to control what the other idiot will do....... 8) 8) 8) 8)
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I agree with most of this. Hey Freak what happens if you and your wife (if you have one) (if not yoru girlfirend or whatever you have) the two of you are walking home and you get jumped or you get mugged. That's one reason to train. Lets say your in a bar and some drunk asshole comes over and starts the fight with you.. Aww another good reason. Hell what if some idiot pulls a knife on you adn yoru by yourself. Might want to know how to defend yourself once again. Think of it as driving, Most people drive defensivley because you never know what the other idiot driving is gonna do.. Same thing in life you never know what another idiot is gonna do and I personally train to be able to control what the other idiot will do....... 8) 8) 8) 8)
If someone pulls a knife on me, I give him whatever he asks. I have trained in five different styles of Kali, the late Punong Guro, Edgar Sulite is fond of saying, "If two men of equal ability fight with blades, both go to the morgue, two with unequal ability, one goes to the hospital, one to the morgue. One with a blade, one without, one goes to jail, one to the morgue." If you run up against a Kali trained martial artist, they will not stab unitl you experienced enough blood loss from the slashing they will inflict upon you. There is no defense for a well trained Kali man with a knife. Rigan and Jean Jeaque Machado got a chance to play with Christopher Ricketts, heir to the Illustrisimo Kali clan, while doing fight choreography on the movie Kickboxer V in Manilla. They couldn't disarm, block, Chris. They were marked up with ink all over their arms from an ink laden training blade. Burton Richardson was there. Anyone who thinks they can disarm a skilled Kali man hasn't trained with a skilled Kali man.
One reason I carry a clip it everywhere I go.
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If someone pulls a knife on me, I give him whatever he asks. I have trained in five different styles of Kali, the late Punong Guro, Edgar Sulite is fond of saying, "If two men of equal ability fight with blades, both go to the morgue, two with unequal ability, one goes to the hospital, one to the morgue. One with a blade, one without, one goes to jail, one to the morgue." If you run up against a Kali trained martial artist, they will not stab unitl you experienced enough blood loss from the slashing they will inflict upon you. There is no defense for a well trained Kali man with a knife. Rigan and Jean Jeaque Machado got a chance to play with Christopher Ricketts, heir to the Illustrisimo Kali clan, while doing fight choreography on the movie Kickboxer V in Manilla. They couldn't disarm, block, Chris. They were marked up with ink all over their arms from an ink laden training blade. Burton Richardson was there. Anyone who thinks they can disarm a skilled Kali man hasn't trained with a skilled Kali man.
One reason I carry a clip it everywhere I go.
I have trained in Kali as well. I don't disagree with anything you say AB.
However I will just say that the average joker on the street who pulls a knife is NOT a trained Kali knife fighter. In most instances if someone pulls a weapon on you, you are better off doing whatever they ask. ESPECIALLY if they pull a gun. However, if you have experience in defending against a knife and you are going against some punk with a switchblade, you can disarm him and turn that weapon on himself. You may or may not take a slice but that beats being stabbed to death if you can't run away.
One thing my Inosanto taught instructors taught me is that a man with a weapon is basically fighting one handed. You just need to concentrate on the hand with the baseball bat, knife, or what have you instead of two hands and two feet. It actually gives you a bit of an advantage if they don't know what they are doing with that weapon.
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I have trained in Kali as well. I don't disagree with anything you say AB.
However I will just say that the average joker on the street who pulls a knife is NOT a trained Kali knife fighter. In most instances if someone pulls a weapon on you, you are better off doing whatever they ask. ESPECIALLY if they pull a gun. However, if you have experience in defending against a knife and you are going against some punk with a switchblade, you can disarm him and turn that weapon on himself. You may or may not take a slice but that beats being stabbed to death if you can't run away.
One thing my Inosanto taught instructors taught me is that a man with a weapon is basically fighting one handed. You just need to concentrate on the hand with the baseball bat, knife, or what have you instead of two hands and two feet. It actually gives you a bit of an advantage if they don't know what they are doing with that weapon.
There are plenty of old escrimador trained Pinoy's in Hawaii. Better not to mess with it. I trained with Richard Bustillo while in college, the late Schnookie Sanchez. There are LOTS of Pinoy's, Thais (krabi kabong) and Vietnamese. Most of them carry. Better not to mess. I usually wear short sleeves, and would prefer not to check with my lovely forearms.
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There are plenty of old escrimador trained Pinoy's in Hawaii. Better not to mess with it. I trained with Richard Bustillo while in college, the late Schnookie Sanchez. There are LOTS of Pinoy's, Thais (krabi kabong) and Vietnamese. Most of them carry. Better not to mess. I usually wear short sleeves, and would prefer not to check with my lovely forearms.
Haha...I'll certainly keep that in mind should I travel to Hawaii. ;) Nevertheless, the average thug in Brooklyn, Miami, or wherever isn't a trained Kali knife fighter.
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A few years ago, here in NYC, a couple of escrima guys got into it with a bouncer at a club. One of the escrima guys stabbed the bouncer in the leg and hit an artery. The bouncer bled to death. He was about 6'6" 300+.
The best time for a weapons self-defense move is before the guy gets the weapon out, as he's reaching for it. If the guy has it pointing at you, give him what he wants.
The BJJ self-defense moves work well if a guy has a weapon in his pants. If in the front, you have the reverse kimora; in the back, you have the omo plata (chicken wing).
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A few years ago, here in NYC, a couple of escrima guys got into it with a bouncer at a club. One of the escrima guys stabbed the bouncer in the leg and hit an artery. The bouncer bled to death. He was about 6'6" 300+.
The best time for a weapons self-defense move is before the guy gets the weapon out, as he's reaching for it. If the guy has it pointing at you, give him what he wants.
The BJJ self-defense moves work well if a guy has a weapon in his pants. If in the front, you have the reverse kimora; in the back, you have the omo plata (chicken wing).
Thin Lizzy, once again, has spoken the correct. Benny, as you are prolly aware, in pananjakman, when you inside sweep the cross, you check at the waist for a blade. In Dumog, on the inside single shot, you go straight for the belt line to check the weapon. Once deployed, in hubud-lubud range, it will end end up being a struggle with a bladed opponent. Something I wouldn't advocate.
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A few years ago, here in NYC, a couple of escrima guys got into it with a bouncer at a club. One of the escrima guys stabbed the bouncer in the leg and hit an artery. The bouncer bled to death. He was about 6'6" 300+.
The best time for a weapons self-defense move is before the guy gets the weapon out, as he's reaching for it. If the guy has it pointing at you, give him what he wants.
The BJJ self-defense moves work well if a guy has a weapon in his pants. If in the front, you have the reverse kimora; in the back, you have the omo plata (chicken wing).
BJJ is one of the WORST self defense systems for an individual with weapons. The last thing you want to be is in grappling range with a dude with a knife. Or in a crowded environment where the guy may have friends. One kick to the head by his buddies while you're rolling around on the floor and it is game over.
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BJJ is one of the WORST self defense systems for an individual with weapons. The last thing you want to be is in grappling range with a dude with a knife. Or in a crowded environment where the guy may have friends. One kick to the head by his buddies while you're rolling around on the floor and it is game over.
Rigan and JJ found that out in the PI.
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Rigan and JJ found that out in the PI.
Details please? ???
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From my previous post. There is no defense for a well trained Kali man with a knife. Rigan and Jean Jeaque Machado got a chance to play with Christopher Ricketts, heir to the Illustrisimo Kali clan, while doing fight choreography on the movie Kickboxer V in Manilla. They couldn't disarm, block, Chris. They were marked up with ink all over their arms from an ink laden training blade. Burton Richardson was there. Anyone who thinks they can disarm a skilled Kali man hasn't trained with a skilled Kali man.
One reason I carry a clip it everywhere I go.
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BJJ is one of the WORST self defense systems for an individual with weapons. The last thing you want to be is in grappling range with a dude with a knife. Or in a crowded environment where the guy may have friends. One kick to the head by his buddies while you're rolling around on the floor and it is game over.
Sport BJJ and BJJ self-defense are two separate forms.
No BJJ teacher would recommend going to the ground against multiple opponents, or fighting an armed opponent while unarmed.
"A man's got to know his limitations"
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Sport BJJ and BJJ self-defense are two separate forms.
No BJJ teacher would recommend going to the ground against multiple opponents, or fighting an armed opponent while unarmed.
"A man's got to know his limitations"
Yes.
The problem is that 90% of BJJ that is taught is taught for competition. Too many don't realize that what they are being taught isn't the best thing to do in a street altercation. There are times when the LAST thing you want to do is go to the ground, like the situations I mention above. That's one of the reasons why I tell people to respect boxing a very effective form of street self defense for certain situations.
The inherent weakness in BJJ is the scenario of multiple opponents. The Gracie philosophy to counteract this obvious weakness was to state that if there is more than one opponent you have no chance. This is a crock and they know it, but it is the only counter arguement they have. You can defend yourself against multiple oppenents...not the best situation to be in, but if they are out of shape and/or unskilled you have more than a fighting chance.
Attributes...particularl y conditioning...make the fighter more than any particular art. Or as Bruce Lee would say, man makes style not style makes man.
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From my previous post. There is no defense for a well trained Kali man with a knife. Rigan and Jean Jeaque Machado got a chance to play with Christopher Ricketts, heir to the Illustrisimo Kali clan, while doing fight choreography on the movie Kickboxer V in Manilla. They couldn't disarm, block, Chris. They were marked up with ink all over their arms from an ink laden training blade. Burton Richardson was there. Anyone who thinks they can disarm a skilled Kali man hasn't trained with a skilled Kali man.
One reason I carry a clip it everywhere I go.
Well they were silly to think they could grapple a skilled knife fighter. ::) I don't care if you're Rigan Machado or Rickson Gracie, that's just dumb.
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Well they were silly to think they could grapple a skilled knife fighter. ::) I don't care if you're Rigan Machado or Rickson Gracie, that's just dumb.
Cool thing about Rigan and JJ is they were open to learning. Christopher Ricketts is no joke. He recently relocated to SD, CA. Tatang was involved in over 100 death matches. I wish I would have had an opportunity to train with him. He died the year I was going to Manilla.