Do all MMA and UFC fighters think there "hardcore"?

[SinCitysmallGUY]

Taking out the part about hairy nuts, retardation and any other insults, I agree wholeheartedly with your asertion.  A good TD guy will get a good striker down 99.99% of the time.  The striker has a striker's chance, and not a very good one at that because when you are moving, you can't get your body behind the punch, kick.  Boxers, especially, who on on their toes, will have the hardest time.  Most people don't realize that Chuck's takedown defense (other than grabbing the fence) is based on the fact that he was a D1 wrestler. 

Agreed anyone who has only trained throwing punches and knowing how to cut angles...etc... Doesnt have a very good chance of staying on there feet. If a wrestler shoots and grabs a single leg. What is the boxer going to do, throw puncehs. And a single leg is pretty simple to step into and out of... That is with training. Sure the boxer could land his one shot, but that's about all the more chance he has is one shot. A guy like Hendo could take a good shot and then grab you and put you thru the mat with a good G&P

[americanbulldog]

Agreed anyone who has only trained throwing punches and knowing how to cut angles...etc... Doesn't have a very good chance of staying on there feet. If a wrestler shoots and grabs a single leg. What is the boxer going to do, throw punches. And a single leg is pretty simple to step into and out of... That is with training. Sure the boxer could land his one shot, but that's about all the more chance he has is one shot. A guy like Hendo could take a good shot and then grab you and put you thru the mat with a good G&P

Straight boxer against a wrestling based fighter, the boxer would be backing up, or moving side to side to avoid the shot.  If that is the case, the punch he throws wouldn't have much on it because he couldn't set and throw.  It's not like a boxer will attempt a flying knee, that isn't in his repertoire. 

[BEAST 8692]

having take down defence is important, IF your oponent has a reasonable chance of shooting in on you.

tito is not going to get past lennox's broom stick. i've never seen lennox up on his toes ie ali flicking shots. what lennox does is stay at a distance behind a probing potent jab and use angles to det his power shots. i have NEVER seen someone of tito's standup defence and size get close to prime lennox and it's not happening this time, sorry. despite what blanco says lennox has never had a problem disposing those beneath his class very very quickly when he was focused.

disclaimer: i am NOT a lewis fan or a boxing delusionist. i am strictly confining debating blanco's assertion re tito vs lennox, specifically that tito simply walks over and takes lennox down.

blanco, please feel free to meltdown all you want, but it's not going to serve your purpose ie diversion. you asked for credentials so let me see yours.

[americanbulldog]

^^^Tito was able to takedown Wandy, Vitor, Guy Mezger, Ken Shammy, Yuki Kondo, Vlad Matsushenko (who is an olympic level wrestler) at will.  These are guys who can punch, kick, clinch and have takedown defense.  I think Tito wouldn't have any trouble taking Lennox down unless he had a great sprawl, could get underhooks, knew about the plum, whizzer, could crossface, and even then would get taken down.  Ortiz would POUND Lennox from within Lennox's guard to get a UD or a TKO.  Especially with Lennox's head up against the fence. 

[Nathan]

Why do these 130 lb wannabe's do things like walking lunges and barbell benchpress with mouthpieces in?

Tapout shirts on a 130lb beast wow....

MAXIMUM DELUSION AWARD WINNER'S of 2007....

What makes u think you know jack sh*T about anything You never trained a day in your life get a clue!

[BEAST 8692]

^^^Tito was able to takedown Wandy, Vitor, Guy Mezger, Ken Shammy, Yuki Kondo, Vlad Matsushenko (who is an olympic level wrestler) at will.  These are guys who can punch, kick, clinch and have takedown defense.  I think Tito wouldn't have any trouble taking Lennox down unless he had a great sprawl, could get underhooks, knew about the plum, whizzer, could crossface, and even then would get taken down.  Ortiz would POUND Lennox from within Lennox's guard to get a UD or a TKO.  Especially with Lennox's head up against the fence. 

belfort was (at one time) a technically decent striker (that was given to lapses in concentration and had mediocre heart). shamrock was (an excellent all rounder with a ton of heart), wandi is (see shamrock description). the rest, don't bother.

NONE of them should even be mentioned in the same paragraph as lennox. seriously, do you really think any of those guys would even be sparring with prime lennox standup? lennox would be commiting a criminal offence if he did.

[dragonheart]

Rofl, today was back day and then I went upstairs to walk on the treadmill for 45min.  Im walking on a treadmill and this UFC wannabe gets on the treadmill next to me.  He looked very cliche - had a shaved head, and some wierd kind of sweatband around his forehead that I havent seen before.  Looked like a total UFC wannabe.  Anyways, while hes jogging on the treadmill he actually shadow-boxed a few times.  Then he did alot of rotating between treadmills, stationairy bikes and eliptical machines, never forgetting to do a little shadow boxing before getting on the next machine.

Seriously, do those guys think they are cool or something?  Guy looked like a total assclown

[Big Freak]

whats the point of this rubbish, "he can kick his ass" he would win over him" blabla. Who fuckin cares. Just get a gun or better a shotgun and it is all over.

[Benny B]

whats the point of this rubbish, "he can kick his ass" he would win over him" blabla. Who fuckin cares. Just get a gun or better a shotgun and it is all over.

If I confront you in a nightclub or on the sidewalk, do you always have a readily available sidearm cocked and loaded for you to fire? What if I punch you in your mouth and you stagger backwards, and as you start to fall I see you trying to reach for your gun tucked in the small of your back? We end up wrestling for it and I get control of the weapon and shoot YOUR ass with it?
My point is...a gun is neither always available or the proper use of force in every situation. I guy punches you in the jaw and you shoot him, you better have a sympathetic jury or you're going to jail.

[Big Freak]

If I confront you in a nightclub or on the sidewalk, do you always have a readily available sidearm cocked and loaded for you to fire? What if I punch you in your mouth and you stagger backwards, and as you start to fall I see you trying to reach for your gun tucked in the small of your back? We end up wrestling for it and I get control of the weapon and shoot YOUR ass with it?
My point is...a gun is neither always available or the proper use of force in every situation. I guy punches you in the jaw and you shoot him, you better have a sympathetic jury or you're going to jail.

hmm ok, I dont carry a gun,but some of my friends do, and theire seldomly alone so if you jump on one of them... U know. Anyway my point is thi, why even bother fighting its so patehtich. Look you got two scenarios; either the guy you jump on is a chicken and cant fight-you punch him anyway-he will call the police-you go to jail secondly you jump on the wrong fuckin guy-you get killed . So theres your picks go to jail or get killed.

[Benny B]

hmm ok, I dont carry a gun,but some of my friends do, and theire seldomly alone so if you jump on one of them... U know. Anyway my point is thi, why even bother fighting its so patehtich. Look you got two scenarios; either the guy you jump on is a chicken and cant fight-you punch him anyway-he will call the police-you go to jail secondly you jump on the wrong fuckin guy-you get killed . So theres your picks go to jail or get killed.

So you'll rely on your "buddies" to be around to save you with a readily available firearm should you get in an altercation?  I have seen several instances where that just wouldn't have been possible. I also know that your "two scenarios" is not entirely accurate either.

As Bruce Lee said , you can always "hire a bodyguard or lead a less aggressive life" to make yourself safe. In most options you also have the option to walk or run away. That might be a bit embarrassing in front of the wife or kids, however. Do what you want to do, but don't knock those who like to train for self defense. Most so-called "fighters" train for sport, to get in shape, or for the discipline anyway. Few nowadays train with a true martial mindset.

[SinCitysmallGUY]

So you'll rely on your "buddies" to be around to save you with a readily available firearm should you get in an altercation?  I have seen several instances where that just wouldn't have been possible. I also know that your "two scenarios" is not entirely accurate either.

As Bruce Lee said , you can always "hire a bodyguard or lead a less aggressive life" to make yourself safe. In most options you also have the option to walk or run away. That might be a bit embarrassing in front of the wife or kids, however. Do what you want to do, but don't knock those who like to train for self defense. Most so-called "fighters" train for sport, to get in shape, or for the discipline anyway. Few nowadays train with a true martial mindset.

I agree with most of this. Hey Freak what happens if you and your wife (if you have one) (if not yoru girlfirend or whatever you have) the two of you are walking home and you get jumped or you get mugged. That's one reason to train. Lets say your in a bar and some drunk asshole comes over and starts the fight with you.. Aww another good reason. Hell what if some idiot pulls a knife on you adn yoru by yourself. Might want to know how to defend yourself once again. Think of it as driving, Most people drive defensivley because you never know what the other idiot driving is gonna do.. Same thing in life you never know what another idiot is gonna do and I personally train to be able to control what the other idiot will do.......

[americanbulldog]

I agree with most of this. Hey Freak what happens if you and your wife (if you have one) (if not yoru girlfirend or whatever you have) the two of you are walking home and you get jumped or you get mugged. That's one reason to train. Lets say your in a bar and some drunk asshole comes over and starts the fight with you.. Aww another good reason. Hell what if some idiot pulls a knife on you adn yoru by yourself. Might want to know how to defend yourself once again. Think of it as driving, Most people drive defensivley because you never know what the other idiot driving is gonna do.. Same thing in life you never know what another idiot is gonna do and I personally train to be able to control what the other idiot will do.......

If someone pulls a knife on me, I give him whatever he asks.  I have trained in five different styles of Kali, the late Punong Guro, Edgar Sulite is fond of saying, "If two men of equal ability fight with blades, both go to the morgue, two with unequal ability, one goes to the hospital, one to the morgue.  One with a blade, one without, one goes to jail, one to the morgue."  If you run up against a Kali trained martial artist, they will not stab unitl you experienced enough blood loss from the slashing they will inflict upon you.  There is no defense for a well trained Kali man with a knife.  Rigan and Jean Jeaque Machado got a chance to play with Christopher Ricketts, heir to the Illustrisimo Kali clan, while doing fight choreography on the movie Kickboxer V in Manilla.  They couldn't disarm, block, Chris.  They were marked up with ink all over their arms from an ink laden training blade.  Burton Richardson was there.  Anyone who thinks they can disarm a skilled Kali man hasn't trained with a skilled Kali man. 

One reason I carry a clip it everywhere I go. 

[Benny B]

If someone pulls a knife on me, I give him whatever he asks.  I have trained in five different styles of Kali, the late Punong Guro, Edgar Sulite is fond of saying, "If two men of equal ability fight with blades, both go to the morgue, two with unequal ability, one goes to the hospital, one to the morgue.  One with a blade, one without, one goes to jail, one to the morgue."  If you run up against a Kali trained martial artist, they will not stab unitl you experienced enough blood loss from the slashing they will inflict upon you.  There is no defense for a well trained Kali man with a knife.  Rigan and Jean Jeaque Machado got a chance to play with Christopher Ricketts, heir to the Illustrisimo Kali clan, while doing fight choreography on the movie Kickboxer V in Manilla.  They couldn't disarm, block, Chris.  They were marked up with ink all over their arms from an ink laden training blade.  Burton Richardson was there.  Anyone who thinks they can disarm a skilled Kali man hasn't trained with a skilled Kali man. 

One reason I carry a clip it everywhere I go. 

I have trained in Kali as well. I don't disagree with anything you say AB.
However I will just say that the average joker on the street who pulls a knife is NOT a trained Kali knife fighter. In most instances if someone pulls a weapon on you, you are better off doing whatever they ask. ESPECIALLY if they pull a gun. However, if you have experience in defending against a knife and you are going against some punk with a switchblade, you can disarm him and turn that weapon on himself. You may or may not take a slice but that beats being stabbed to death if you can't run away.
One thing my Inosanto taught instructors taught me is that a man with a weapon is basically fighting one handed. You just need to concentrate on the hand with the baseball bat, knife, or what have you instead of two hands and two feet. It actually gives you a bit of an advantage if they don't know what they are doing with that weapon.

[americanbulldog]

I have trained in Kali as well. I don't disagree with anything you say AB.
However I will just say that the average joker on the street who pulls a knife is NOT a trained Kali knife fighter. In most instances if someone pulls a weapon on you, you are better off doing whatever they ask. ESPECIALLY if they pull a gun. However, if you have experience in defending against a knife and you are going against some punk with a switchblade, you can disarm him and turn that weapon on himself. You may or may not take a slice but that beats being stabbed to death if you can't run away.
One thing my Inosanto taught instructors taught me is that a man with a weapon is basically fighting one handed. You just need to concentrate on the hand with the baseball bat, knife, or what have you instead of two hands and two feet. It actually gives you a bit of an advantage if they don't know what they are doing with that weapon.

There are plenty of old escrimador trained Pinoy's in Hawaii.  Better not to mess with it.  I trained with Richard Bustillo while in college, the late Schnookie Sanchez.  There are LOTS of Pinoy's, Thais (krabi kabong) and Vietnamese.  Most of them carry.  Better not to mess.  I usually wear short sleeves, and would prefer not to check with my lovely forearms. 

[Benny B]

There are plenty of old escrimador trained Pinoy's in Hawaii.  Better not to mess with it.  I trained with Richard Bustillo while in college, the late Schnookie Sanchez.  There are LOTS of Pinoy's, Thais (krabi kabong) and Vietnamese.  Most of them carry.  Better not to mess.  I usually wear short sleeves, and would prefer not to check with my lovely forearms. 

Haha...I'll certainly keep that in mind should I travel to Hawaii.  Nevertheless, the average thug in Brooklyn, Miami, or wherever isn't a trained Kali knife fighter.

[Thin Lizzy]

A few years ago, here in NYC, a couple of escrima guys got into it with a bouncer at a club. One of the escrima guys stabbed the bouncer in the leg and hit an artery. The bouncer bled to death. He was about 6'6" 300+.

The best time for a weapons self-defense move is before the guy gets the weapon out, as he's reaching for it. If the guy has it pointing at you, give him what he wants.

The BJJ self-defense moves work well if a guy has a weapon in his pants. If in the front, you have the reverse kimora; in the back, you have the omo plata (chicken wing).

[americanbulldog]

A few years ago, here in NYC, a couple of escrima guys got into it with a bouncer at a club. One of the escrima guys stabbed the bouncer in the leg and hit an artery. The bouncer bled to death. He was about 6'6" 300+.

The best time for a weapons self-defense move is before the guy gets the weapon out, as he's reaching for it. If the guy has it pointing at you, give him what he wants.

The BJJ self-defense moves work well if a guy has a weapon in his pants. If in the front, you have the reverse kimora; in the back, you have the omo plata (chicken wing).

Thin Lizzy, once again, has spoken the correct.  Benny, as you are prolly aware, in pananjakman, when you inside sweep the cross, you check at the waist for a blade.  In Dumog, on the inside single shot, you go straight for the belt line to check the weapon.  Once deployed, in hubud-lubud range, it will end end up being a struggle with a bladed opponent.  Something I wouldn't advocate. 

[Benny B]

A few years ago, here in NYC, a couple of escrima guys got into it with a bouncer at a club. One of the escrima guys stabbed the bouncer in the leg and hit an artery. The bouncer bled to death. He was about 6'6" 300+.

The best time for a weapons self-defense move is before the guy gets the weapon out, as he's reaching for it. If the guy has it pointing at you, give him what he wants.

The BJJ self-defense moves work well if a guy has a weapon in his pants. If in the front, you have the reverse kimora; in the back, you have the omo plata (chicken wing).

BJJ is one of the WORST self defense systems for an individual with weapons. The last thing you want to be is in grappling range with a dude with a knife. Or in a crowded environment where the guy may have friends. One kick to the head by his buddies while you're rolling around on the floor and it is game over.

[americanbulldog]

BJJ is one of the WORST self defense systems for an individual with weapons. The last thing you want to be is in grappling range with a dude with a knife. Or in a crowded environment where the guy may have friends. One kick to the head by his buddies while you're rolling around on the floor and it is game over.

Rigan and JJ found that out in the PI. 

[Benny B]

Rigan and JJ found that out in the PI. 

Details please? 

[americanbulldog]

From my previous post.  There is no defense for a well trained Kali man with a knife.  Rigan and Jean Jeaque Machado got a chance to play with Christopher Ricketts, heir to the Illustrisimo Kali clan, while doing fight choreography on the movie Kickboxer V in Manilla.  They couldn't disarm, block, Chris.  They were marked up with ink all over their arms from an ink laden training blade.  Burton Richardson was there.  Anyone who thinks they can disarm a skilled Kali man hasn't trained with a skilled Kali man. 

One reason I carry a clip it everywhere I go. 

[Thin Lizzy]

BJJ is one of the WORST self defense systems for an individual with weapons. The last thing you want to be is in grappling range with a dude with a knife. Or in a crowded environment where the guy may have friends. One kick to the head by his buddies while you're rolling around on the floor and it is game over.

Sport BJJ and BJJ self-defense are two separate forms.

No BJJ teacher would recommend going to the ground against multiple opponents, or fighting an armed opponent while unarmed.

"A man's got to know his limitations"

[Benny B]

Sport BJJ and BJJ self-defense are two separate forms.

No BJJ teacher would recommend going to the ground against multiple opponents, or fighting an armed opponent while unarmed.

"A man's got to know his limitations"

Yes.
The problem is that 90% of BJJ that is taught is taught for competition. Too many don't realize that what they are being taught isn't the best thing to do in a street altercation. There are times when the LAST thing you want to do is go to the ground, like the situations I mention above. That's one of the reasons why I tell people to respect boxing a very effective form of street self defense for certain situations.

The inherent weakness in BJJ is the scenario of multiple opponents. The Gracie philosophy to counteract this obvious weakness was to state that if there is more than one opponent you have no chance. This is a crock and they know it, but it is the only counter arguement they have. You can defend yourself against multiple oppenents...not the best situation to be in, but if they are out of shape and/or unskilled you have more than a fighting chance.

Attributes...particularl y conditioning...make the fighter more than any particular art. Or as Bruce Lee would say, man makes style not style makes man.

[Benny B]

From my previous post.  There is no defense for a well trained Kali man with a knife.  Rigan and Jean Jeaque Machado got a chance to play with Christopher Ricketts, heir to the Illustrisimo Kali clan, while doing fight choreography on the movie Kickboxer V in Manilla.  They couldn't disarm, block, Chris.  They were marked up with ink all over their arms from an ink laden training blade.  Burton Richardson was there.  Anyone who thinks they can disarm a skilled Kali man hasn't trained with a skilled Kali man. 

One reason I carry a clip it everywhere I go. 

Well they were silly to think they could grapple a skilled knife fighter.  I don't care if you're Rigan Machado or Rickson Gracie, that's just dumb.