Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: body88 on April 29, 2007, 08:01:27 AM
-
Agrees to restructure entire contract. Takes a six million dollar pay cut for the 07 season. One year deal, he will make 3 mill in 07. Moss is not not due any money until he plays a game. He is on a 5 week trial period. If the pats decide to extend him past 1 year they negotiate a deal. Contract includes protection clauses for pats. I am not a Moss fan, but for a late fourth round pick? Holy moly. The patriots have 8 second day picks today, After they used the 24th overall, they turned there second first rounder into a 2007 4th and 2008 first rounder from San Fran. So the number 28 pick they decided to trade since they did not see anything they liked netted them a extra 2008 first round pick (likley to be be top 15) and Randy Moss (for the fourth). I believe they got the raiders 2008 third rounder also. The 2008 draft is supposed to be very deep so I am frekin pumped.
Btw, espn jus confirmed Moss ran a 4.29 40 for the pats last week.
Article
Patriots acquire Randy Moss from Oakland
By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff | April 29, 2007
Moss held a conference call with the New England media this afternoon.
"I don't think you all understand how excited I am to be a part of this organization," Moss told the media. "I think [New England's] record and what they're about speaks massive volumes. I'm just very, very happy to find some happiness and getting back to what I love to do -- that's play football and going out there and [competing]."
Moss underwent a physical this morning in Foxborough. He agreed to restructure and/or extend his contract to consummate the deal. He was due base salaries of $9.25 million in 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008. The contract he agreed to with the Patriots reduced his pay for 2007 to $3 million.
"I think over the course of my career, I've made a lot of money," said Moss. "I still have money in the bank. By me coming to an organization such as the New England Patriots, why would money be a factor?"
The 6-foot-4, 210-pound Moss enters his 10th NFL season after having played for the Vikings (1998-2004) and Raiders (2005-2006). He had a career-low 42 catches for 553 yards and three touchdowns last season as the Raiders struggled to a 2-14 record, and is said to be motivated to join a winning program.
The acquisition of Moss continues the team's offseason makeover at the position. The Patriots traded for Wes Welker and signed Donte' Stallworth and Kelley Washington in free agency.
Second-year player Chad Jackson, who is recovering from a torn ACL sustained in the AFC Championship game Jan. 21, is also part of the mix. The team also has Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney returning, in addition to longer shots Bam Childress, Kelvin Kight and Jonathan Smith competing for roster spots. Veteran Troy Brown, who is recovering from offseason knee surgery, could also be part of the mix. He remains a free agent.
Moss would project as a starter at one of the team's outside receiver spots.
-
Who was the only one open-minded enough to push for this? LOL This is likely goin to be fuggin great; credit to Belichick, the rest of the coaches and Kraft for their open-mindedness. Between the coaches and players and Moss's own situation now, the downsides are fairly low at this point. If it doesn't work they can bail without letting it get in the way.
-
Pumpster you where correct. For a fourth round pick and him totally restructuring his contract? You cannot say no to that. I did not like Moss, but I have faith in the vets and the coaching he will be kept in line. For him to take a pay cut that says a lot on its own. I will remain cautious of him tho.
It was just confirmed on espn that he ran a 4.29 40 last week for the pats. That is insane.
-
So who are u going to cover.Maroney has to be loving this move, as he might finally have some holes to run through! No team with any sense will stuff 8 or 9 in the box with Moss and Stallworth going downfield with Brady at QB! I suspect now that "Headlights" will be a camp casualty! I also wonder about Troy Brown. Will they be able to carry all these WRs?
-
So who are u going to cover.Maroney has to be loving this move, as he might finally have some holes to run through! No team with any sense will stuff 8 or 9 in the box with Moss and Stallworth going downfield with Brady at QB! I suspect now that "Headlights" will be a camp casualty! I also wonder about Troy Brown. Will they be able to carry all these WRs?
I would have been against this had it not been for a FOURTH ROUND pick. The guy ran a 4.29 forty last week for NE and GB. I guess Moss is going to totally restructure his contract for less money and to include protection clauses for the pats. The whole pats support system could do a lot for this guy. It better anyway. Either way, he will be gonzo if anything happens.
The pats are switching to zone blocking this year. What Maroney had in college 8)
-
Moss restructing tells me my guess was right that he's now been humbled, wants to fit in and win before it's too late.
A little strange that oakland getting a QB in the draft didn't factor in; maybe it was already a solid deal and they didn't want out. From Moss' point of view even a new QB would probably take a couple of years to work.
4.29 at his age is insane.
-
The Ravens defense awaits on Dec. 3rd. Monday night football.
At our house.
Piss on Moss. He'll be popping off at the mouth by week 2, training camp.
-
The Ravens defense awaits on Dec. 3rd. Monday night football.
At our house.
Piss on Moss. He'll be popping off at the mouth by week 2, training camp.
I dont think so. If he gets mouthy it wont be in the first year.People said the same stuff about Corey Dillon. His new contract will have protection clauses for the pats. If you had the chance to get Randy Moss for a late fourth round draft pick and a totally restructured deal you would not take it? I think the pats support system will do wonders for Moss. If not they cut him, no big deal. There will surley be out options for the pats in this deal. Moss said the only team he woud restructure for was NE. Seems like he really wants to play out here with Brady. I would be against this deal if it was for a high pick, but for a fourth rounder and a protection laden deal? Have to do it. Me thinks the pats wanna squeeze a year out of Moss while Chad Jackson develops (wr pick last year) and they gear up to go shopping with all those new/extra picks in a very strong 2008 draft.
The bottom line is this guy is going to open up the whole offense for all the recievers and especially for Maroney Morris and Faulk.
-
This is outrageous, someone with his talent finally on a blue chip team. So far largely squandered on so-so teams. Great developing story.
-
Here's to hoping he gives the Patsies a lot of BS the next few years!
GOOO BILLS!
-
Honestly, Body88?
I would not take him even for a 4th rounder. I just don't think he's worth the risk. So, he runs a sub 4.3 at 30 years old. What's the big deal? He's always been fast and he's always been known to run those 40 times. I question his heart and his will to win at this stage of his career. He's acts like a bitch nowadays and I don't really think he's matured at all. I just don't think he's personality will fit into that team's chemistry.
He epitomizes the ultimate high risk/high reward player.
Best of luck getting him to shut up and just play football. I don't think Moss cares about being mentored and I don't think he'll respond well to being held in check by those veterans. His best years statistically were while playing under the tutelage of Chris Carter. When Carter retired, Moss talked mad shit about him and yearned to become his own man. He's had a shitty attitude ever since those years.
Not trying to rain on your parade, Body88. Even without Moss' aquisition, I would declare NE a legit Super Bowl contender for the upcoming 2007 season.
-
Honestly, Body88?
I would not take him even for a 4th rounder. I just don't think he's worth the risk. So, he runs a sub 4.3 at 30 years old. What's the big deal? He's always been fast and he's always been known to run those 40 times. I question his heart and his will to win at this stage of his career. He's acts like a bitch nowadays and I don't really think he's matured at all. I just don't think he's personality will fit into that team's chemistry.
He epitomizes the ultimate high risk/high reward player.
Best of luck getting him to shut up and just play football. I don't think Moss cares about being mentored and I don't think he'll respond well to being held in check by those veterans. His best years statistically were while playing under the tutelage of Chris Carter. When Carter retired, Moss talked mad shit about him and yearned to become his own man. He's had a shitty attitude ever since those years.
Not trying to rain on your patrade, Body88. Even without Moss' aquisition, I would declare NE a legit Super Bowl contender for the upcoming 2007 season.
They got Dillion to shut his trap, so I assume they could do the same with Moss. As much I hate NE, they are stacked at receivers now. Stallworth, Moss, even Welker is a little shifty.
-
But I do agree that's it's a no risk scenario compensation-wise in regards to what NE had to give up for him. 4th rounder and restructured deal?? Don't blame NE for taking a shot at him one bit.
The only risk I see is lack of heart, disruption of team chemisty, and playing hard only when he wants to.
4.29 sounds sexy on paper but how it will it translate into his play on the field? We'll wait and see............
-
They got this guy for a 4th rounder......he'll be fine. They are the odds on favorite for the superbowl......along with San Diego..the dolts lost way to much this off season and have done very little to address it.
-
Honestly, Body88?
I would not take him even for a 4th rounder. I just don't think he's worth the risk. So, he runs a sub 4.3 at 30 years old. What's the big deal? He's always been fast and he's always been known to run those 40 times. I question his heart and his will to win at this stage of his career. He's acts like a bitch nowadays and I don't really think he's matured at all. I just don't think he's personality will fit into that team's chemistry.
He epitomizes the ultimate high risk/high reward player.
Best of luck getting him to shut up and just play football. I don't think Moss cares about being mentored and I don't think he'll respond well to being held in check by those veterans. His best years statistically were while playing under the tutelage of Chris Carter. When Carter retired, Moss talked mad shit about him and yearned to become his own man. He's had a shitty attitude ever since those years.
Not trying to rain on your patrade, Body88. Even without Moss' acquisitions, I would declare NE a legit Super Bowl contender for the upcoming 2007 season.
No worries. I would agree with you if we had given up more then a fourth round pick. There is really no risk in that imho. If he does not work out he gets cut and we lose a late fourth rounder. Most fourth round draft picks do not even make the team. A sub 4.3 forty is faster then any receiver in the draft this year.I honestly believe if the pats can hold Corey Dillon in line and Brian Cox, they can do the same with Moss. If not they cut his ass and he hits the bricks. I cannot really as an unbiased fan say that Randy moss for a late fourth rounder and a restructured protection laden contract is not a deal you make. If the pats did not have a proven track record with guys who had "baggage" I would not feel this way. If they had given up a second rounder I would not like the deal. Maroney has gone from a weapon to a huge problem for defenses with Moss ,Stallworth, Brown, Welker and Jackson flying around. if Moss acts like a d bag he will get taken to the woodshed by guys like Rodney harrison and then by the fans. Since it was only a fourth the we gave up I think they will cut his ass real quick if anything happens.
NE currently has the most drafted players starting on there team in the nfl. Ther are not a lot of roster spots for guys to come in and develope. I love this move for a fourth rounder.
-
I would have been against this had it not been for a FOURTH ROUND pick. The guy ran a 4.29 forty last week for NE and GB. I guess Moss is going to totally restructure his contract for less money and to include protection clauses for the pats. The whole pats support system could do a lot for this guy. It better anyway. Either way, he will be gonzo if anything happens.
The pats are switching to zone blocking this year. What Maroney had in college 8)
For a fourth round pick he was a salary dump for the Raiders. Basically that says he had no market value. The upside is pretty big for the Patriots. He is a nice target downfield.
-
The trade was good for the Raiders also...With that 4th round pick we got Michael Bush...A real 1st round talent. They thought the leg might be a problem thats why he went so late...can anyone say Willis
-
Bush easily would've been the second back taken after Peterson had he not got injured. If he's completely recovered then he will be the steal of this draft.
Guy was a monster before that injury.
-
Patriots will win the Superbowl for sure :'(
-
Patriots will win the Superbowl for sure :'(
We'll see about that. ;)
Go Ravens!
-
he was only willing to restructure for the pats
the rich get richer :-\
E
-
For a fourth round pick he was a salary dump for the Raiders. Basically that says he had no market value. The upside is pretty big for the Patriots. He is a nice target downfield.
He had plenty of market value. The problem was he would only restructure his contract for the patriots. Spin it anyway you like, the pats traded there late extra first round pick for a 2008 first round pick that is likley to be top 15 and Randy Moss. Anyone who claims they would not burn a late fourth round pick on Randy Moss after he agreed to totally restructure his contract is full of shit. All I know is that Corey Dillon and Brian Cox had plenty of bagage coming in. There have also been several pats players who where garbage, they got cut real fast. This is a no risk deal for the patriots.
-
He had plenty of market value. The problem was he would only restructure his contract for the patriots. Down play it any way you like, the pats traded there second first round pick for a 2008 first round pick that is likley to be top 15 and Randy Moss. Anyone who claims they would not burn a late fourth round pick on Randy Moss after he said he was willing to totally restructure his contract is full of shit. All I know is that Corey Dillon and Brian Cox had plenty of bagge coming in. There have also been several pats players who where garbage, they got cut real fast. This is a no risk deal for the patriots.
Actually body I didn't feel Moss was worth more than a 4th round pick, based on his performance the last 2 years, but this is great for Tom Brady and the Pats if Moss can regain some of his great playing abilty.
-
The Ravens defense awaits on Dec. 3rd. Monday night football.
At our house.
Piss on Moss. He'll be popping off at the mouth by week 2, training camp.
Gotta agree with upinthemguts here. The guy has always been a talent, but he has also been a world class tool as well. Doesn't sell routes that he is not the primary, will not block downfield....... Still the best receiver in the game when he wants to.
-
Actually body I didn't feel Moss was worth more than a 4th round pick, based on his performance the last 2 years, but this is great for Tom Brady and the Pats if Moss can regain some of his great playing abilty.
Why do we care about his market value? The reason the packers did not get him nor the broncs was because he would not resructure his contract. Anyone who says they would not trade there extra 2008 first round pick for a 2008 first round pick and Randy Moss is full of shit.
Honestly with the track record of players with baggage coming here and doing well I dont see the big issue. 4th round pick and a totally restructured contract for a guy who jus ran a 4.29 40 in Florida? Im all for that.
If Moss was willing to restructure his whole deal like he is doing with NE he would not be a patriot. he is a patriot because he agreed to redo his deal.
If he acts up they will cut him. What are they going to lose 1 of there 3 fourth round picks. Who cares?
-
Gotta agree with upinthemguts here. The guy has always been a talent, but he has also been a world class tool as well. Doesn't sell routes that he is not the primary, will not block downfield....... Still the best receiver in the game when he wants to.
So if he does it again, you just cut him. The pats would lose a late fourth round pick. 90 percent of late first rounders dont even make the team. Not to mention we had 3 picks in that round. The restructured deal offers the pats protection. To get a extra 2008 first rounder, and Randy Moss with a resructured deal, for a extra late round 1 pick is a tremendous deal for NE. Why would the pats draft second round talent at 28 when they could get randy moss and a extra 2008 first round pick in a better draft with there extra pick. The only guy who they could have used was Staley, but we already have 2 good centers. Everyone else was second round from that point. Maybe Harris but he is to small for our system. He went in the mid second anyway.
The reason I like this deal is because of the cost (which is nothing), the fact Moss resructured his deal, and the track record of bad Charector guys fitting in well with the vet support system. Brian Cox and Corey Dillon got all the same questions. If it does not work out cut em quick and move on. Chad Jackson should be ready to play mid season anyway.
-
You've got to love being a sportsfan in New England
-
He had plenty of market value.
How? The only teams that showed any interest were the Patriots and the Packers.
-
Why do we care about his market value? The reason the packers did not get him nor the broncs was because he would not resructure his contract. Anyone who says they would not trade there extra 2008 first round pick for a 2008 first round pick and Randy Moss is full of shit.
Honestly with the track record of players with baggage coming here and doing well I dont see the big issue. 4th round pick and a totally restructured contract for a guy who jus ran a 4.29 40 in Florida? Im all for that.
If Moss was willing to restructure his whole deal like he is doing with NE he would not be a patriot. he is a patriot because he agreed to redo his deal.
If he acts up they will cut him. What are they going to lose 1 of there 3 fourth round picks. Who cares?
Those 40 yard times you talk about are all bullshit. If you take a top sprinter and take the fastest 40 yards in the middle of a 100 meter dash they barely do those times let alone from a standing start. Those times are about as legit as bodybuilding lift claims.
-
Good trade. The Raiders dump a malcontent and get a great RB prospect in Bush. The Pats get a guy who is the most dangerous WR in the NFL . . . when he feels like playing, doesn't quit, doesn't have alligator arms, isn't smoking marijuana, and isn't injured (2 out of the last 3 years).
-
I can already imagine him burning the Jets for gains for 40 or more. :-[
-
I can already imagine him burning the Jets for gains for 40 or more. :-[
Camel, face it. The Jets will never win a Superbowl.
-
Those 40 yard times you talk about are all bullshit. If you take a top sprinter and take the fastest 40 yards in the middle of a 100 meter dash they barely do those times let alone from a standing start. Those times are about as legit as bodybuilding lift claims.
Take it up with espn, and the guys who timed him in florida from gb and ne last week. I supose the 4.3 times at the combine shown on tv where fake also? I ran a 4.5 so to me they are impossible anyway!
-
How? The only teams that showed any interest were the Patriots and the Packers.
The Broncos also. Mike Shanahan confirmed they where in talks today.
-
DiPiero told Twin Cities television station KSTP that Moss was in excellent shape and "ran a 4.26, 4.28, and a 4.31 (seconds in the 40-yard dash) during one of his workouts last week. He's in the best shape of his life."
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=4/27/2007&id=22686
My question is what is his 40 time on the many plays he takes off? :)
-
Take it up with espn, and the guys who timed him in florida from gb and ne last week. I supose the 4.3 times at the combine shown on tv where fake also? I ran a 4.5 so to me they are impossible anyway!
Just saying that a legit 4.3 in the 40 from a standing start is nearly impossible. Everybody runs a 4.3 40 like everybody bench presses 500+ pounds. Its all bullshit.
-
DiPiero told Twin Cities television station KSTP that Moss was in excellent shape and "ran a 4.26, 4.28, and a 4.31 (seconds in the 40-yard dash) during one of his workouts last week. He's in the best shape of his life."
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=4/27/2007&id=22686
My question is what is his 40 time on the many plays he takes off? :)
Why would he do that? His contract allows the pats to dump him. Belichick would not put up with that shit. They have cut many a player over things like that. 2 names, Corey Dillon and Brian Cox. Both had baggage and both had problems. The pats gave up a fourth round pick to get Moss. He had to totally rescructure his deal. If he turns into a problem they cut him. You might lose one of those 3 fourth rounders which means nothing. I think the pats have the proven track record of being able to support players with issues within there support system. If he screws up cut his ass. Hell ill be the first to say it. He only makes us better, we have a pretty good wr core without him now. Dont forget about the kid we drafted last year who was injured. He will be back. I
Moss helps open up the entire ground game for Maroney. Pats are switching to zone blocking which is what Maroney has in college. I expect big things from him this year. I would not like this deal had it not only been for a fourth round pick. Also Moss being required to rescructure. Really nothing to lose with this deal.
-
Just saying that a legit 4.3 in the 40 from a standing start is nearly impossible. Everybody runs a 4.3 40 like everybody bench presses 500+ pounds. Its all bullshit.
Just reporting what the packers and espn guys said.... I know what you mean tho.
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=4/27/2007&id=22686
-
Why would he do that? His contract allows the pats to dump him. Belichick would not put up with that shit. They have cut many a player over things like that. 2 names, Corey Dillon and Brian Cox. Both had baggage and both had problems. The pats gave up a fourth round pick to get Moss. He had to totally rescructure his deal. If he turns into a problem they cut him. You might lose one of those 3 fourth rounders which means nothing. I think the pats have the proven track record of being able to support players with issues within there support system. If he screws up cut his ass. Hell ill be the first to say it. He only makes us better, we have a pretty good wr core without him now. Dont forget about the kid we drafted last year who was injured. He will be back. I
Moss helps open up the entire ground game for Maroney. Pats are switching to zone blocking which is what Maroney has in college. I expect big things from him this year. I would not like this deal had it not only been for a fourth round pick. Also Moss being required to rescructure. Really nothing to lose with this deal.
Why would he quit? Because he has done it for years. Bragged about it even. Remember the "I play when I want to play" comments?
That said, I think it's a good trade. He has the potential to make the Pats very potent on offense. I just don't trust him.
-
Why would he quit? Because he has done it for years. Bragged about it even. Remember the "I play when I want to play" comments?
That said, I think it's a good trade. He has the potential to make the Pats very potent on offense. I just don't trust him.
I def see what you are saying. If the stakes where so low on the pats side I would be mad. I am used to it. Corey/Cox where the same way when he came in. You have to see it to beleive it. It very well might not work out, but with the way Randy sounded on the radio, and the fact he took a monster pay cut I think it might. Either way the worst that can happen is we cut him, and go back to having a good wr core instead of very good. I think the situation in Oakland promoted players to act like idiots prior to this year. Not that that is an excuse.
I would not beleieve it could work had I not witnessed it work with Corey.
-
Camel, face it. The Jets will never win a Superbowl.
That not true. Mangini is using the methods the pats have used for years. When he was here mangini was a contributor the the eventual "system" NE formed. The pats built there "core" with the draft. Adding pieces to the puzzle in free agency. If you check out the pats team look at the core. You might be surprised to know the pats have the most drafted players who start in the NFL.
The jets are just at a dif phaze in the build then the pats. Think 01 pats when they started to build the team. The pats are already established and focus on adding pieces to the formed puzzle. You see how the pats are stockpiling picks right? They are getting ready to draft another class to be ready when some of the current crop leave in a few years. This year they focused on getting a top safety/corner at 24 in Meriweather, getting picks for next year to reload ( extra 1st, and 3rd, round picks) and adding depth at the OT,LB and DT position in case of injury. Another notable pickup was Kareem Brown the DT from Miami. I was high on him as a sleeper pick in the third, but they nabbed him in the 4th. Due to the massive injury list last year people forget NE has a lot of starters who missed alot of playing time last year. Harrison, Wilson, Jr, Chad Jackson ,and Hobbs the most time of the bunch.
In a few years the Jets will be big time players. You saw them trade all there picks for two guys for the same reason the pats traded there second fist rounder. This was kind of a thin draft other then wr and de. Most of which did not fit in the 3.4. Be patient the green will seriously contend. I am not afraid to say it. There is only one coach who I think is slicker then Mangini. The guy who groomed him who works in NE.
-
I def see what you are saying. If the stakes where so low on the pats side I would be mad. I am used to it. Corey/Cox where the same way when he came in. You have to see it to beleive it. It very well might not work out, but with the way Randy sounded on the radio, and the fact he took a monster pay cut I think it might. Either way the worst that can happen is we cut him, and go back to having a good wr core instead of very good. I think the situation in Oakland promoted players to act like idiots prior to this year. Not that that is an excuse.
I would not beleieve it could work had I not witnessed it work with Corey.
We'll see. I agree it's a good risk. He'll be playing with the best QB in the NFL and for a Super Bowl contender. As long as the Pats keep winning he'll probably behave.
When healthy and playing hard, Brady, Maroney, Watson, Stallworth, and Moss probably make up the best set of skill position players in the league . . . on paper (along with Indy).
-
Moss took a 6 million dollar pay cut to play for NE in 07.
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/04/29/patriots_acquire_moss/
-
Rodney Harrisons thought on the Moss trade.
"As I've said before, there aren't many cornerbacks who can stick him man-to-man," he said. "That is going to help us out, because teams usually have to roll the safety to stop him and that can open things for the other guy. And then you consider we have the best quarterback in the league."
Harrison believes Moss's situation mirrors Corey Dillon's from 2004, when Dillon was acquired by the Patriots after struggling in a losing situation in Cincinnati. He also sees similarities to his own situation from 2003, after he was let go by the Chargers and signed with the Patriots.
"When Corey Dillon came in, everyone thought he was an outlaw. He proved otherwise. When I came in, everyone thought I was an outlaw, ruthless. I think I proved otherwise," Harrison said.
"Let's get a chance to know the guy before we make any judgments. If he comes in and is selfish, there are going to be problems. But if he has the right attitude, it will be huge for us."
-
Still not sure how I feel about this one.
Even though the Pats gave up nearly nothing for someone of his talent level he's still such a derisive character that I'm not sure he's worth it. Yes, he's spectacularly talented but he's also as big a head case as Terrell Owens is. The idea of Brady airing it out to him is more than a little intoxicating but I'm still not completely buying it. This guy makes me nervous. We'll see how the veterans on the team deal with him if he decides to revert to his old ways and starts taking plays off.
Of course Belichick and Pioli have earned the right to make such a trade, their record of incredible success speaks for itself.
-
Still not sure how I feel about this one.
Even though the Pats gave up nearly nothing for someone of his talent level he's still such a derisive character that I'm not sure he's worth it. Yes, he's spectacularly talented but he's also as big a head case as Terrell Owens is. The idea of Brady airing it out to him is more than a little intoxicating but I'm still not completely buying it. This guy makes me nervous. We'll see how the veterans on the team deal with him if he decides to revert to his old ways and starts taking plays off.
Of course Belichick and Pioli have earned the right to make such a trade, their record of incredible success speaks for itself.
Parallels with TO aren't necessarily accurate, as they've been in completely different situations the last couple of years in particular. As far as his behavior, i have a feeling they'll know sometime during training camp/early season if it's a go and will get rid of him if need be before any harm's done to the season. This team can handle it, others maybe not.
As far as downsides, they're there but much smaller on this particular team. The upside potential's huge; between Moss and other trades/acquisitions they've significantly upgraded WR which was a problem last season IMO.
That's only on the field. In terms of generating interest, this thread proves it.
-
I am in shock he took a SIX MILLION DOLLAR pay cut this year. Not to mention he signed a one year deal.
-
Parallels with TO aren't necessarily accurate, as they've been in completely different situations the last couple of years in particular. As far as his behavior, i have a feeling they'll know sometime during training camp/early season if it's a go and will get rid of him if need be before any harm's done to the season. This team can handle it, others maybe not.
As far as downsides, they're there but much smaller on this particular team. The upside potential's huge; between Moss and other trades/acquisitions they've significantly upgraded WR which was a problem last season IMO.
That's only on the field. In terms of generating interest, this thread proves it.
I'm surprised you're not doing some gloating. If I remember correctly you were the one saying this would happen a more than a month ago and body and I didn't agree.
You've earned a little gloat time. ;D
Good post btw, it's hard for me to refute any of it.
I hope like hell Moss works out because when he's on he's spectacular. Might be the most dangerous WR I've ever seen. The Pats are starting to look frighteningly good next year. I'm sure Brady is jumping up and down at the thought of airing it out to Moss and alternatively handing it off to Maroney as well as dumping those little screen passes off to him.
-
Both Cox and Dillon worked out for the Pats, but neither are anywhere the malcontent Moss is. HE IS THE single most talented receiver in the NFL, whether he wants to play is another story. He has a better chance of suceeding in NE than he did in Oakland (castoffs and deviants, all), so NE is in a win/win scenario. Worst case, he is a one year free agent acquition who gets them a deep playoff run. Best case, he takes them over the top, and they win another SB.
-
Peter King's take:
I think -- and I need some more time to look into this over the next few days -- I find it hard to support Moss to the Patriots, regardless of how little they paid for him. And it's looking like they got the guy for an absolute song, though the exact money details haven't filtered out yet, except to say that ProFootballTalk.com has Moss getting either $3 million or $3.5 million in base salary in a one-year deal, down from the $9.25 million the Raiders owed him this year.
As we know, assuming there's not a signing bonus involved -- and ProFootballTalk.com says there is none -- the Patriots can basically have Moss on a five-month trial now, for free, because nothing he'll make is guaranteed until the first game of the season. But I'm still not sure this is right.
I'm about to get preachy/sappy. Even when the Patriots took a chance on guys like Corey Dillon, they were using roster spots on guys who were never accused of not hustling. To me, and to Bob Kraft, Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli, cheating the game is the worst crime a player can commit. Moss has done it regularly, going back to the infamous dogging it that Merril Hoge proved on ESPN years ago.
People around the Raiders had a major beef with Moss -- he regularly dogged it. I'm not going to kill the Patriots for this, because Moss might well turn into Pete Rose, and if he does, good for him. But this is not the kind of player the Patriots stand for. He can prove all of us doubting this trade wrong. But I can't help but think that, regardless of the outcome, the Patriots should have let someone else deal with his potential flameout. In their quest for the greatest offseason in the Cap Era (which the Patriots might have won before the Moss trade), I think New England went one step too far.
3. I think once you move to the pragmatic side of the deal, my guess is New England will be happy with Moss. Can he still play? We'll see, but he'll be tremendously motivated to play. His career's on the line. He's 30. He's entering his 10th year in the NFL. He mailed it in the last two years in Oakland. The most stunning stat of all the negative Mossisms is the man had one catch of 40 yards or more last year; he had 14 of those as a Viking rookie.
Moss was once a lock for Canton. Now he might be a lock to be football's version of Dwight Gooden, a great player who flamed out through nobody's fault but his own. But it's in his hands to be great again, with the best team he's ever been on.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/04/29/draft/5.html
-
Who was the only one open-minded enough to push for this?
By open-minded, are you referring to the hole in the Raiders' collective heads for allowing one of the most dominant receivers in the history of the game go for a 4th-round pick from a team that's GUARANTEED to be picking late in every round??
Sheesh.
I don't care what you guys say - Moss was worth a 2nd-round pick.
-
Piss on Moss. He'll be popping off at the mouth by week 2, training camp.
Moss wasn't a problem at all in Oakland, so I would expect that to continue in New England. The guy just wants to catch balls for a team that's interested in winning.
-
Me thinks the pats wanna squeeze a year out of Moss while Chad Jackson develops (wr pick last year) and they gear up to go shopping with all those new/extra picks in a very strong 2008 draft.
Moss has several great years left, and I agree with most of your post, but I don't see the 2008 as being very strong at all. You mentioned previously that it will be 'deep', which is possible, but there are no real standouts at this time for '08.
-
I would not take him even for a 4th rounder. I just don't think he's worth the risk. So, he runs a sub 4.3 at 30 years old. What's the big deal? He's always been fast and he's always been known to run those 40 times. I question his heart and his will to win at this stage of his career. He's acts like a bitch nowadays and I don't really think he's matured at all. I just don't think he's personality will fit into that team's chemistry.
He epitomizes the ultimate high risk/high reward player.
Best of luck getting him to shut up and just play football. I don't think Moss cares about being mentored and I don't think he'll respond well to being held in check by those veterans. His best years statistically were while playing under the tutelage of Chris Carter. When Carter retired, Moss talked mad shit about him and yearned to become his own man. He's had a shitty attitude ever since those years.
I disagree completely with your conclusions about Moss.
I LOVE a player who HATES losing, and that's the one thing about Moss that you just can't question. You say he's got no heart, but man, he loves getting out there and getting those balls.
I didn't feel that Oakland should've acquired him, but SOMEONE needed to bitch in Oakland, because it was obvious that no one else in that entire organization gave a shit about winning.
Losers.
-
Bush easily would've been the second back taken after Peterson had he not got injured. If he's completely recovered then he will be the steal of this draft.
Guy was a monster before that injury.
Have to admit that I was surprised when I looked up and saw him selected by Oakland, but have to agree with you guys about his upside.
-
Actually body I didn't feel Moss was worth more than a 4th round pick, based on his performance the last 2 years, but this is great for Tom Brady and the Pats if Moss can regain some of his great playing abilty.
Yeah, playing for Oakland can dumb anyone's game down, that's for sure.
-
By open-minded, are you referring to the hole in the Raiders' collective heads for allowing one of the most dominant receivers in the history of the game go for a 4th-round pick from a team that's GUARANTEED to be picking late in every round??
They got what they could, already having been told he didn't want to come back and with most teams thinking inside the box & unwilling to seriously consider him, like most get biggers.
-
Yeah, playing for Oakland can dumb anyone's game down, that's for sure.
To think not too long ago "Commitment to Excellence" meant something.
-
To think not too long ago "Commitment to Excellence" meant something.
About 2 decades + ago. When visiting Oakland i've seen that slogan continue to be used; now it comes across as a joke.
-
Moss has several great years left, and I agree with most of your post, but I don't see the 2008 as being very strong at all. You mentioned previously that it will be 'deep', which is possible, but there are no real standouts at this time for '08.
Moss for a fourth round draft pick is a no brainer. Add in the fact Moss agreed to a one year deal and took a SIX MILLION dollar pay cut to play for 3 million bucks this season is another reason. After reading the deal I found out that he is not guaranteed a dime of his 3 mill until the first game of the season. Effectively he is on a five week trial period in camp and preseason where he can be cut at absolutely no loss. If the pats did not have a proven record of being able to take on guys with "baggage" I would not like this trade. I would be totally against it if the cost and risk was not so damn lo. The most they can lose is a late fourth round draft pick in this deal if they cut him mid season. Although I am not really a fan of Moss, I cannot see any risk in this trade. Worst comes to worse you cut his ass and are out a fourth round pick and still have a great wr corp left. NE does not need Moss, and I think he knows that.
As for the draft, I believe other then the wr position and de position it was a thin draft. I am speaking from the perspective of a team picking in the bottom end of rounds. Most the de's where not suitable for the 3/4 anyway. I am glad the pats used the number 24 pick on Meriweather (I was very high on this kid), then traded the 28th pick for a 2008 first rounder and the 4th rounder they used for Randy moss. They also netted a sixth rounder and a 2008 third round pick from Oakland.The raiders pick will def be way higher then the pats late third round pick they traded off to Oakland. Could be pretty much a late second rounder. The raiders have the hardest schedule in the NFL so I don't think its a stretch to think they might be picking top top five again in 08. I liked the Kareem Brown pick up in the fourth among other value picks on day two by the pats. The 2008 draft is going to be much deeper at positions the pats would be interested in imo. I could jus not see the pats using a extra first round pick on a guy like David Harris/Poz (both turned out to be late second rounders ) this year. Belichick has never drafted a lb higher then the fourth round do to the fact it can take years to learn the system. he tends to like vets at the mike and will position while a kid is slowley developed into the role. I think next year is going to be a much better lb crop to choose from for the 3/4. I thought maybe Staley, but they already drafted there entire o line and d line over the last 5 years. Don't need a wr with Chad Jackson projected to be ready for camp etc. I think it was a telling tale many first round players dropped in the late second or even third or fourth round. I was praying Quinn would fall to us so we could tade the pick off. A lot of teams wanted to trade down this year.
I think the move the jets made to give up there entire draft pick selection for 2 players said a lot. I figured the jets to go shopping since they have some holes to fill. I don't think they saw much value after the first round at certain positions. Same for the pats to trade there extra first rounder and 3rd rounder for 2008 picks. That puts them in the position to have a extra to pick in the first round, and a extra 3rd rounder at the top of the round from Oakland in 08.
-
About 2 decades + ago. When visiting Oakland i've seen that slogan continue to be used; now it comes across as a joke.
" just win baby"
-
One year deal with provisions and a Paycut is a no brainer. Moss himself is the issue. Moss himself has said he just wasn't trying. This has happened in Minnesota as well. I don't normally agree with Ravens fans/staff, but upinthemguts is right when he called Moss high risk/high reward. Can he make a differnce, definitively YES. Will he? That is the main concern. If the ship sails smoothly, he will contribute to another stacked year for the Pats. If not, he could become a serious distraction on a team that isn't used to distractions. Their first round pick is another questionable call by the Pats, a team usually concerned about character. Merriweather was involved in that nasty fracas with FIU, and an off the field shooting incident. Two telltale signs of this guy's thugish past. I hope NE isn't becoming the Bungholes, we have seen what the win at all costs has done to that franchise.
-
One year deal with provisions and a Paycut is a no brainer. Moss himself is the issue. Moss himself has said he just wasn't trying. This has happened in Minnesota as well. I don't normally agree with Ravens fans/staff, but upinthemguts is right when he called Moss high risk/high reward. Can he make a differnce, definitively YES. Will he? That is the main concern. If the ship sails smoothly, he will contribute to another stacked year for the Pats. If not, he could become a serious distraction on a team that isn't used to distractions. Their first round pick is another questionable call by the Pats, a team usually concerned about character. Merriweather was involved in that nasty fracas with FIU, and an off the field shooting incident. Two telltale signs of this guy's thugish past. I hope NE isn't becoming the Bungholes, we have seen what the win at all costs has done to that franchise.
This is what I do not like about the media. Meriweather DOES NOT have any kind of gun charge. Meriweather was a criminology major at Miami. He was studying to be a police officer. He has a registered handgun. Someone broke into his apt and shot his roommate. Meriweather returned fire as the perp fled the scene. He was trying to protect his roommate, and his own life. The Miami dade police made it clear several times that Meriweather was acting in self defense, and did not do anything illegal. It has gotten to the point where if a person owns a legal hand gun, and uses it to protect themselves from a person who is trying to MURDER there roommate they are a thug? I love the media.
The fight incident was wrong, and a mistake. This kid has NO history of trouble with the law. The kid took full responsibility for kicking that player during that team wide brawl. Apologized and made it known he understood his actions and how stupid they where. That is a long way off from being a "thug". Richard Seymour stomped on some guys chest 2 years ago. Where is the outrage over that? Kicking someone during a team wide brawl during the heat of the moment is stupid, not a character issue. I love how the media considers a person who owns a legal gun to have character issues.Looks like half of America has character issues, including the cops! Imagine if Joe Thomas/Brady Quinn used there legal hand gun to protect a roommate after a criminal shot them? They would be a HERO'S. The media is leaving out the details of this story to push a agenda and it is unfair. Belicheck and his staff spent ALOT of time with this kid.They put a lot of effort into screening players. Bill was on the radio today and when asked about Meriweather he said that he was 100 percent confident he was going to be a great addition to the team and no problem. He has earned the right to be taken at his word imo. All this crap is WAY over hyped. Case and point his "gun issue" Aka protecting his life with his legal handgun after someone SHOT his roommate for no reason lol.
As for Moss, it would never get to the point of a distraction. He is on a short leash. This team has had plenty of distractions. Terry Glenn taking the team hostage in 01, threatening not to play during there super bowl season. Branch telling the pats he wanted a new contract (while under contract) and refusing to play right before the season last year. Ty getting arrested on south beach. Ty Law in general. Ted Washington and his poor attitude. Corey Dillon having problems this year and becoming frustrated with his lack of carries. Brian Cox in general. Todd Sourbrauhn ( punter) getting bagged for drugs/steroids. QB controversy when Bledsoe got injured. Corey Dillon before he got here (people said all the same stuff) There have been plenty bad character guys who played for the pats, you never hear about it because they get cut.
Belichick has a very good track record of being able to evaluate guys character. The locker room structure has proven to be able to handle guys other team cannot. For the cost nad low risk of getting Moss you have to try it out. If moss screws up he gets cut . They do not need him. He wanted to play for NE. The dude signed a one year deal and taking a 6 million dollar pay cut. The deal is structured to make it possible to cut Moss at any point. He is not even guaranteed a dime of his 3 million until after the first official game. I would be against this deal if the pats did not have the ability to cut him at no loss at any point. Then again I was against the Dillon deal also.
I know, I know MELTDOWN.........