Randy Moss to Ne for a fourth round pick

[body88]

Gotta agree with upinthemguts here.  The guy has always been a talent, but he has also been a world class tool as well.  Doesn't sell routes that he is not the primary, will not block downfield....... Still the best receiver in the game when he wants to. 

So if he does it again, you just cut him. The pats would lose a late fourth round pick. 90 percent of late first rounders dont even make the team. Not to mention we had 3 picks in that round. The restructured deal offers the pats protection. To get a extra 2008 first rounder, and Randy Moss with a resructured deal, for a extra late round 1 pick is a tremendous deal for NE. Why would the pats draft second round talent at 28 when they could get randy moss and a extra 2008 first round pick in a better draft with there extra pick. The only guy who they could have used was Staley, but we already have 2 good centers. Everyone else was second round from that point. Maybe Harris but he is to small for our system. He went in the mid second anyway.

The reason I like this deal is because of the cost (which is nothing), the fact Moss resructured his deal, and the track record of bad Charector guys fitting in well with the vet support system. Brian Cox and Corey Dillon got all the same questions. If it does not work out cut em quick and move on. Chad Jackson should be ready to play mid season anyway.

[tleilaxutank]

You've got to love being a sportsfan in New England

[bmacsys]

He had plenty of market value.

How? The only teams that showed any interest were the Patriots and the Packers.

[bmacsys]

Why do we care about his market value? The reason the packers did not get him nor the broncs was because he would not resructure his contract. Anyone who says they would not trade there extra 2008 first round pick for a 2008 first round pick and Randy Moss is full of shit.

Honestly with the track record of players with baggage coming here and doing well I dont see the big issue. 4th round pick and a totally restructured contract for a guy who jus ran a 4.29 40 in Florida? Im all for that.

If Moss was willing to restructure his whole deal like he is doing with NE he would not be a patriot. he is a patriot because he agreed to redo his deal.

If he acts up they will cut him. What are they going to lose 1 of there 3 fourth round picks. Who cares?

Those 40 yard times you talk about are all bullshit. If you take a top sprinter and take the fastest 40 yards in the middle of a 100 meter dash they barely do those times let alone from a standing start. Those times are about as legit as bodybuilding lift claims.

[Dos Equis]

Good trade.  The Raiders dump a malcontent and get a great RB prospect in Bush.  The Pats get a guy who is the most dangerous WR in the NFL . . . when he feels like playing, doesn't quit, doesn't have alligator arms, isn't smoking marijuana, and isn't injured (2 out of the last 3 years). 

[Camel Jockey]

I can already imagine him burning the Jets for gains for 40 or more. 

[bmacsys]

I can already imagine him burning the Jets for gains for 40 or more. 

Camel, face it. The Jets will never win a Superbowl.

[body88]

Those 40 yard times you talk about are all bullshit. If you take a top sprinter and take the fastest 40 yards in the middle of a 100 meter dash they barely do those times let alone from a standing start. Those times are about as legit as bodybuilding lift claims.

Take it up with espn, and the guys who timed him in florida from gb and ne last week. I supose the 4.3 times at the combine shown on tv where fake also? I ran a 4.5 so to me they are impossible anyway!

[body88]

How? The only teams that showed any interest were the Patriots and the Packers.

The Broncos also. Mike Shanahan confirmed they where in talks today.

[Dos Equis]

DiPiero told Twin Cities television station KSTP that Moss was in excellent shape and "ran a 4.26, 4.28, and a 4.31 (seconds in the 40-yard dash) during one of his workouts last week. He's in the best shape of his life."

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=4/27/2007&id=22686

My question is what is his 40 time on the many plays he takes off?  

[bmacsys]

Take it up with espn, and the guys who timed him in florida from gb and ne last week. I supose the 4.3 times at the combine shown on tv where fake also? I ran a 4.5 so to me they are impossible anyway!

Just saying that a legit 4.3 in the 40 from a standing start is nearly impossible. Everybody runs a 4.3 40 like everybody bench presses 500+ pounds. Its all bullshit.

[body88]

DiPiero told Twin Cities television station KSTP that Moss was in excellent shape and "ran a 4.26, 4.28, and a 4.31 (seconds in the 40-yard dash) during one of his workouts last week. He's in the best shape of his life."

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=4/27/2007&id=22686

My question is what is his 40 time on the many plays he takes off?  

Why would he do that? His contract allows the pats to dump him. Belichick would not put up with that shit. They have cut many a player over things like that. 2 names, Corey Dillon and Brian Cox. Both had baggage and both had problems. The pats gave up a fourth round pick to get Moss. He had to totally rescructure his deal. If he turns into a problem they cut him. You might lose one of those 3 fourth rounders which means nothing. I think the pats have the proven track record of being able to support players with issues within there support system. If he screws up cut his ass. Hell ill be the first to say it. He only makes us better, we have a pretty good wr core without him now. Dont forget about the kid we drafted last year who was injured. He will be back. I

Moss helps open up the entire ground game for Maroney. Pats are switching to zone blocking which is what Maroney has in college. I expect big things from him this year. I would not like this deal had it not only been for a fourth round pick. Also Moss being required to rescructure. Really nothing to lose with this deal.

[body88]

Just saying that a legit 4.3 in the 40 from a standing start is nearly impossible. Everybody runs a 4.3 40 like everybody bench presses 500+ pounds. Its all bullshit.

Just reporting what the packers and espn guys said.... I know what you mean tho.

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=4/27/2007&id=22686

[Dos Equis]

Why would he do that? His contract allows the pats to dump him. Belichick would not put up with that shit. They have cut many a player over things like that. 2 names, Corey Dillon and Brian Cox. Both had baggage and both had problems. The pats gave up a fourth round pick to get Moss. He had to totally rescructure his deal. If he turns into a problem they cut him. You might lose one of those 3 fourth rounders which means nothing. I think the pats have the proven track record of being able to support players with issues within there support system. If he screws up cut his ass. Hell ill be the first to say it. He only makes us better, we have a pretty good wr core without him now. Dont forget about the kid we drafted last year who was injured. He will be back. I

Moss helps open up the entire ground game for Maroney. Pats are switching to zone blocking which is what Maroney has in college. I expect big things from him this year. I would not like this deal had it not only been for a fourth round pick. Also Moss being required to rescructure. Really nothing to lose with this deal.

Why would he quit?  Because he has done it for years.  Bragged about it even.  Remember the "I play when I want to play" comments?

That said, I think it's a good trade.  He has the potential to make the Pats very potent on offense.  I just don't trust him. 

[body88]

Why would he quit?  Because he has done it for years.  Bragged about it even.  Remember the "I play when I want to play" comments?

That said, I think it's a good trade.  He has the potential to make the Pats very potent on offense.  I just don't trust him. 

I def see what you are saying. If the stakes where so low on the pats side I would be mad. I am used to it. Corey/Cox where the same way when he came in. You have to see it to beleive it. It very well might not work out, but with the way Randy sounded on the radio, and the fact he took a monster pay cut I think it might. Either way the worst that can happen is we cut him, and go back to having a good wr core instead of very good. I think the situation in Oakland promoted players to act like idiots prior to this year. Not that that is an excuse.

I would not beleieve it could work had I not witnessed it work with Corey.

[body88]

Camel, face it. The Jets will never win a Superbowl.

That not true. Mangini is using the methods the pats have used for years. When he was here mangini was a contributor the the eventual "system" NE formed. The pats built there "core" with the draft. Adding pieces to the puzzle in free agency. If you check out the pats team look at the core. You might be surprised to know the pats have the most drafted players who start in the NFL.

The jets are just at a dif phaze in the build then the pats. Think 01 pats when they started to build the team. The pats are already established and focus on adding pieces to the formed puzzle. You see how the pats are stockpiling picks right? They are getting ready to draft another class to be ready when some of the current crop leave in a few years. This year they focused on getting a top safety/corner at 24 in Meriweather, getting picks for next year to reload ( extra 1st, and 3rd, round picks) and adding depth at the OT,LB and DT position in case of injury. Another notable pickup was Kareem Brown the DT from Miami. I was high on him as a sleeper pick in the third, but they nabbed him in the 4th. Due to the massive injury list last year people forget  NE has a lot of starters who missed alot of playing time last year. Harrison, Wilson, Jr, Chad Jackson ,and Hobbs the most time of the bunch.

In a few years the Jets will be big time players. You saw them trade all there picks for two guys for the same reason the pats traded there second fist rounder. This was kind of a thin draft other then wr and de. Most of which did not fit in the 3.4. Be patient the green will seriously contend. I am not afraid to say it. There is only one coach who I think is slicker then Mangini. The guy who groomed him who works in NE.

[Dos Equis]

I def see what you are saying. If the stakes where so low on the pats side I would be mad. I am used to it. Corey/Cox where the same way when he came in. You have to see it to beleive it. It very well might not work out, but with the way Randy sounded on the radio, and the fact he took a monster pay cut I think it might. Either way the worst that can happen is we cut him, and go back to having a good wr core instead of very good. I think the situation in Oakland promoted players to act like idiots prior to this year. Not that that is an excuse.

I would not beleieve it could work had I not witnessed it work with Corey.

We'll see.  I agree it's a good risk.  He'll be playing with the best QB in the NFL and for a Super Bowl contender.  As long as the Pats keep winning he'll probably behave.  

When healthy and playing hard, Brady, Maroney, Watson, Stallworth, and Moss probably make up the best set of skill position players in the league . . . on paper (along with Indy).    

[body88]

Moss took a 6 million dollar pay cut to play for NE in 07.


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/04/29/patriots_acquire_moss/

[body88]

Rodney Harrisons thought on the Moss trade.

"As I've said before, there aren't many cornerbacks who can stick him man-to-man," he said. "That is going to help us out, because teams usually have to roll the safety to stop him and that can open things for the other guy. And then you consider we have the best quarterback in the league."

Harrison believes Moss's situation mirrors Corey Dillon's from 2004, when Dillon was acquired by the Patriots after struggling in a losing situation in Cincinnati. He also sees similarities to his own situation from 2003, after he was let go by the Chargers and signed with the Patriots.

"When Corey Dillon came in, everyone thought he was an outlaw. He proved otherwise. When I came in, everyone thought I was an outlaw, ruthless. I think I proved otherwise," Harrison said.

"Let's get a chance to know the guy before we make any judgments. If he comes in and is selfish, there are going to be problems. But if he has the right attitude, it will be huge for us."

[ieffinhatecardio]

Still not sure how I feel about this one.

Even though the Pats gave up nearly nothing for someone of his talent level he's still such a derisive character that I'm not sure he's worth it. Yes, he's spectacularly talented but he's also as big a head case as Terrell Owens is. The idea of Brady airing it out to him is more than a little intoxicating but I'm still not completely buying it. This guy makes me nervous. We'll see how the veterans on the team deal with him if he decides to revert to his old ways and starts taking plays off.

Of course Belichick and Pioli have earned the right to make such a trade, their record of incredible success speaks for itself.

[pumpster]

Still not sure how I feel about this one.

Even though the Pats gave up nearly nothing for someone of his talent level he's still such a derisive character that I'm not sure he's worth it. Yes, he's spectacularly talented but he's also as big a head case as Terrell Owens is. The idea of Brady airing it out to him is more than a little intoxicating but I'm still not completely buying it. This guy makes me nervous. We'll see how the veterans on the team deal with him if he decides to revert to his old ways and starts taking plays off.

Of course Belichick and Pioli have earned the right to make such a trade, their record of incredible success speaks for itself.

Parallels with TO aren't necessarily accurate, as they've been in completely different situations the last couple of years in particular. As far as his behavior, i have a feeling they'll know sometime during training camp/early season if it's a go and will get rid of him if need be before any harm's done to the season. This team can handle it, others maybe not.

As far as downsides, they're there but much smaller on this particular team. The upside potential's huge; between Moss and other trades/acquisitions they've significantly upgraded WR which was a problem last season IMO.

That's only on the field. In terms of generating interest, this thread proves it.

[body88]

I am in shock he took a SIX MILLION DOLLAR pay cut this year. Not to mention he signed a one year deal.

[ieffinhatecardio]

Parallels with TO aren't necessarily accurate, as they've been in completely different situations the last couple of years in particular. As far as his behavior, i have a feeling they'll know sometime during training camp/early season if it's a go and will get rid of him if need be before any harm's done to the season. This team can handle it, others maybe not.

As far as downsides, they're there but much smaller on this particular team. The upside potential's huge; between Moss and other trades/acquisitions they've significantly upgraded WR which was a problem last season IMO.

That's only on the field. In terms of generating interest, this thread proves it.

I'm surprised you're not doing some gloating. If I remember correctly you were the one saying this would happen a more than a month ago and body and I didn't agree.

You've earned a little gloat time. 

Good post btw, it's hard for me to refute any of it.

I hope like hell Moss works out because when he's on he's spectacular. Might be the most dangerous WR I've ever seen. The Pats are starting to look frighteningly good next year. I'm sure Brady is jumping up and down at the thought of airing it out to Moss and alternatively handing it off to Maroney as well as dumping those little screen passes off to him.

[americanbulldog]

Both Cox and Dillon worked out for the Pats, but neither are anywhere the malcontent Moss is.  HE IS THE single most talented receiver in the NFL, whether he wants to play is another story.  He has a better chance of suceeding in NE than he did in Oakland (castoffs and deviants, all), so NE is in a win/win scenario.  Worst case, he is a one year free agent acquition who gets them a deep playoff run.  Best case, he takes them over the top, and they win another SB. 

[Dos Equis]

Peter King's take:

 I think -- and I need some more time to look into this over the next few days -- I find it hard to support Moss to the Patriots, regardless of how little they paid for him. And it's looking like they got the guy for an absolute song, though the exact money details haven't filtered out yet, except to say that ProFootballTalk.com has Moss getting either $3 million or $3.5 million in base salary in a one-year deal, down from the $9.25 million the Raiders owed him this year.

As we know, assuming there's not a signing bonus involved -- and ProFootballTalk.com says there is none -- the Patriots can basically have Moss on a five-month trial now, for free, because nothing he'll make is guaranteed until the first game of the season. But I'm still not sure this is right.

I'm about to get preachy/sappy. Even when the Patriots took a chance on guys like Corey Dillon, they were using roster spots on guys who were never accused of not hustling. To me, and to Bob Kraft, Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli, cheating the game is the worst crime a player can commit. Moss has done it regularly, going back to the infamous dogging it that Merril Hoge proved on ESPN years ago.

People around the Raiders had a major beef with Moss -- he regularly dogged it. I'm not going to kill the Patriots for this, because Moss might well turn into Pete Rose, and if he does, good for him. But this is not the kind of player the Patriots stand for. He can prove all of us doubting this trade wrong. But I can't help but think that, regardless of the outcome, the Patriots should have let someone else deal with his potential flameout. In their quest for the greatest offseason in the Cap Era (which the Patriots might have won before the Moss trade), I think New England went one step too far.

3. I think once you move to the pragmatic side of the deal, my guess is New England will be happy with Moss. Can he still play? We'll see, but he'll be tremendously motivated to play. His career's on the line. He's 30. He's entering his 10th year in the NFL. He mailed it in the last two years in Oakland. The most stunning stat of all the negative Mossisms is the man had one catch of 40 yards or more last year; he had 14 of those as a Viking rookie.

Moss was once a lock for Canton. Now he might be a lock to be football's version of Dwight Gooden, a great player who flamed out through nobody's fault but his own. But it's in his hands to be great again, with the best team he's ever been on.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/04/29/draft/5.html