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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Straw Man on July 04, 2007, 02:08:39 PM
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When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carring the cross.” - Sinclair Lewis, (It Can’t Happen Here, 1935)
“Unhappy events abroad have retaught us two simple truths about the liberty of a democratic people. The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of a private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.” - Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882-1945), 32nd US President
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” - James Madison (1751-1836), 4th U.S. President and author of the U.S. Constitution
“I’m the commander in chief, see, I don’t need to explain, I do not need to explain why I say things. That’s the interesting part about being president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don’t feel like I owe anybody an explanation.” - George W. Bush, quoted in Bob Woodward’s book ‘Bush at War’
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"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Ben Franklin
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I went fishing in Capetre Long Island and drank a lot of beer.
Happy Indepence Day to everyone!
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"The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of a nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies, but would be ashamed to tell big lies.
Hitler
"During a war, news should be given out for instruction rather than information."
Goebbels
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Goering
"Whenever justice is uncertain and police spying and terror are at work, human beings fall into isolation, which, of course, is the aim and purpose of the dictator state, since it is based on the greatest possible accumulation of depotentiated social units."
Jung
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"The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of a nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies, but would be ashamed to tell big lies.
Hitler
"During a war, news should be given out for instruction rather than information."
Goebbels
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Goering
"Whenever justice is uncertain and police spying and terror are at work, human beings fall into isolation, which, of course, is the aim and purpose of the dictator state, since it is based on the greatest possible accumulation of depotentiated social units."
Jung
"One of the first moves of a dictatorship is to stifle the artists and thinkers who have the ability to stir up dissent from any prescribed dogma which might enslave them." - Uta Hagen
Vision without action is a daydream, Action without vision is a nightmare. - Japanese Proverb
“Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.”
- Caesar
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Two of my buddies came back from Iraq last week.
We spent some quality time toghether today. They're proud of how great America is and how much their 2yrs sacrifces meant. So Am I. What do you guys think?
..... but what did you guys accomplished in the last 2 yrs?
I can say I kept mine shut and listened to what these 2 proud souls have experienced.
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Your "buddies" sound like useful idiots.
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Two of my buddies came back from Iraq last week.
We spent some quality time toghether today. They're proud of how great America is and how much their 2yrs sacrifces meant. So Am I. What do you guys think?
..... but what did you guys accomplished in the last 2 yrs?
I can say I kept mine shut and listened to what these 2 proud souls have experienced.
What they did is honorable. They chose to put themselves in danger willingly for something they believed in. Unfortunately, in the end, they did this in a unnecessary war brought about by greed and paranoia
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Two of my buddies came back from Iraq last week.
We spent some quality time toghether today. They're proud of how great America is and how much their 2yrs sacrifces meant. So Am I. What do you guys think?
..... but what did you guys accomplished in the last 2 yrs?
I can say I kept mine shut and listened to what these 2 proud souls have experienced.
You enjoyed listening to how they ruined 2 years of their lives?
Honestly, you sound like someone who sticks those 'These colors don't run!' stickers on their car. :-\
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You enjoyed listening to how they ruined 2 years of their lives?
Honestly, you sound like someone who sticks those 'These colors don't run!' stickers on their car. :-\
A few of my mates said they actually enjoyed the experience. However, they served 3 months at a time, 6 months in total.
2 years is a bit fucking harsh.
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A few of my mates said they actually enjoyed the experience. However, they served 3 months at a time, 6 months in total.
2 years is a bit fucking harsh.
Especially when you consider Canada doesn't have any soldiers in Iraq ::)
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Especially when you consider Canada doesn't have any soldiers in Iraq ::)
I don't get your point, nor the reason for the roley eyes.
Explain yourself women.
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You enjoyed listening to how they ruined 2 years of their lives?
Honestly, you sound like someone who sticks those 'These colors don't run!' stickers on their car. :-\
Anything wrong with that?
I guess I'm forgetting that most political problems tend to be solved on this board...
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Two of my buddies came back from Iraq last week.
We spent some quality time toghether today. They're proud of how great America is and how much their 2yrs sacrifces meant. So Am I. What do you guys think?
..... but what did you guys accomplished in the last 2 yrs?
I can say I kept mine shut and listened to what these 2 proud souls have experienced.
I agree. One of my buddies just returned on Tuesday. Spent the day with him yesterday. Very proud of his service.
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Especially when you consider Canada doesn't have any soldiers in Iraq ::)
???
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What did we accomplish in Iraq? All I see is Terrorism multiplying, soldiers being killed, and a giant waste of money.
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What did we accomplish in Iraq? All I see is Terrorism multiplying, soldiers being killed, and a giant waste of money.
Saddam is no longer a threat, therefore the violence has been relatively isolated to that region. Fighting terrorism there with soldiers versus losing civilians at home or our surrounding interests in the near future. We have established an even better foothold in the region with which to combat any other country that might develop into a threat. Perpetrators of war crimes were brought to justice for the first time. Iraqis turned out for the first democratic election in that region. We've proven we can sustain and carry out urban warfare perhaps the most hostile terrain and suffer relatively minor losses compared to any other major conflict and effectively fight terrorism almost anywhere. Oil (of course).
Take a few minutes to consider what the alternative would probably have been (esp. 5, 15, and 30 yrs from now) and maybe you'll see why we are not only right in our actions but would have been even more successful if we had moved on Baghdad in the first gulf war and done it right the first time. 1991 was proof that conservative politicians and the country as a whole has nothing to be gained by taking the advice of liberals, democrats, or the otherwise reluctant and self serving.
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Saddam is no longer a threat, therefore the violence has been relatively isolated to that region.
Saddam was a threat to the United States? What about the other 25+ Governments that could be a threat, should we democratize them all?
Fighting terrorism there with soldiers versus losing civilians at home or our surrounding interests in the near future.
In my opinion all we're doing is fighting the terrorists that we created in Iraq... I know I would be fighting back if our country was invaded.
We have established an even better foothold in the region with which to combat any other country that might develop into a threat.
You see the United States as the Police of the World and I don't. Our President won't even work towards securing our boarders, instead he's working on erasing them. Lets police the rest of the world though, I guess what happens at home isn't important to the Neo Conservatives.
Oil (of course).
Glad to see you realize that now.
1991 was proof that conservative politicians and the country as a whole has nothing to be gained by taking the advice of liberals, democrats, or the otherwise reluctant and self serving.
You act like all conservatives are in the same boat... Maybe you meant Neo Conservatives? Their are Traditional Conservatives who want to Impeach George W.
It truly worries me that people still support a man who has almost literally pissed on the Constitution that has served us so well...
You and the Bush administration want a new kind of America... I wish you all would just come out and admit it.
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Saddam is no longer a threat, therefore the violence has been relatively isolated to that region. Fighting terrorism there with soldiers versus losing civilians at home or our surrounding interests in the near future. We have established an even better foothold in the region with which to combat any other country that might develop into a threat. Perpetrators of war crimes were brought to justice for the first time. Iraqis turned out for the first democratic election in that region. We've proven we can sustain and carry out urban warfare perhaps the most hostile terrain and suffer relatively minor losses compared to any other major conflict and effectively fight terrorism almost anywhere. Oil (of course).
Take a few minutes to consider what the alternative would probably have been (esp. 5, 15, and 30 yrs from now) and maybe you'll see why we are not only right in our actions but would have been even more successful if we had moved on Baghdad in the first gulf war and done it right the first time. 1991 was proof that conservative politicians and the country as a whole has nothing to be gained by taking the advice of liberals, democrats, or the otherwise reluctant and self serving.
The threat in Iraq is far higher now than pre-saddam removal. It has cost us dearly and we will be paying for it for years to come.
Chances are we will have to leave at some point and lose it to the Iranians. Which is worse? a thug whose motivated/controlled by power and money like Saddam or religious radicals who think it's honorable to die fighting America?
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Especially when you consider Canada doesn't have any soldiers in Iraq ::)
::) Does anyone really care about Canada? :-\
j/k, Jag. :P
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“A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” —Samuel Adams
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Saddam was a threat to the United States? What about the other 25+ Governments that could be a threat, should we democratize them all?
In my opinion all we're doing is fighting the terrorists that we created in Iraq... I know I would be fighting back if our country was invaded.
You see the United States as the Police of the World and I don't. Our President won't even work towards securing our boarders, instead he's working on erasing them. Lets police the rest of the world though, I guess what happens at home isn't important to the Neo Conservatives.
Glad to see you realize that now.
You act like all conservatives are in the same boat... Maybe you meant Neo Conservatives? Their are Traditional Conservatives who want to Impeach George W.
It truly worries me that people still support a man who has almost literally pissed on the Constitution that has served us so well...
You and the Bush administration want a new kind of America... I wish you all would just come out and admit it.
The idea that we created terrorists in Iraq is completely wrong. A majority of terrorists we're fighting now have come from surrounding countries (Iran, Syria, etc.) We didn't CREATE anything. Their actions means they have to be dealt with. And how is a leader that invades surrounding nations and slaughters millions of his own citizens out of pure hatred not a threat? Would you rather have waited until he was able to put ICBMs within range? I assume you want us to ignore every other international crisis as well until deemed another failure.
The truth here is that everyone against this war and the actions we've taken wouldn't be saying shit if it was another prez in office.
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Fucking amazing...its goddam Independence day and its bash Bush, bash the war....Bash American...fucking move out of my country..those in Canada, shut the fuck up. I spent the day on a boat with a bunch of other vets..after alot of beer we decided the American people don't deserve us. Unreal...I think if u hate your country u should move. And don't give me this Bush crap...all the hate for America was there way before Bush came to office. Get a grip...or leave.
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Fucking amazing...its goddam Independence day and its bash Bush, bash the war....Bash American...fucking move out of my country..those in Canada, shut the fuck up. I spent the day on a boat with a bunch of other vets..after alot of beer we decided the American people don't deserve us. Unreal...I think if u hate your country u should move. And don't give me this Bush crap...all the hate for America was there way before Bush came to office. Get a grip...or leave.
Had BUSH not irresponsibly squandered the lives of 3500+ men and wasted 400 billion I'd write a love ballad for him.
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Well if they just came out and said ...hey we need oil..and Saddam isa nutbag..fine..but at this point i am beginning to point the finger at the senior leadship of the Armed Services....They are the guys that embraced the PC crap of the Clinton 90's. There are many other reasons for why they suck, but the 90's did alot of damage. I'll go into this more when i have time but after reading alot about what lead up to the war..nobody came forward and told Bush that Cheney and that idiot wolfowitz didn't have a friggen clue.
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Well if they just came out and said ...hey we need oil..and Saddam isa nutbag..fine..but at this point i am beginning to point the finger at the senior leadship of the Armed Services....They are the guys that embraced the PC crap of the Clinton 90's. There are many other reasons for why they suck, but the 90's did alot of damage. I'll go into this more when i have time but after reading alot about what lead up to the war..nobody came forward and told Bush that Cheney and that idiot wolfowitz didn't have a friggen clue.
you know you might be right about the oil part but I'm even starting not to think so.
I'm starting to think BUSH really believes he was doing the right thing for moral and principle reasons.
A few weeks ago didn't he veto legislation on stem cell research? Didn't he sight moral and religious reasons? In the years to come that can potentially be a huge economic missed opportunity.
i don't think it's purely money. He might just be genuine about it.
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Fucking amazing...its goddam Independence day and its bash Bush, bash the war....Bash American...fucking move out of my country..those in Canada, shut the fuck up. I spent the day on a boat with a bunch of other vets..after alot of beer we decided the American people don't deserve us. Unreal...I think if u hate your country u should move. And don't give me this Bush crap...all the hate for America was there way before Bush came to office. Get a grip...or leave.
Speak! :) You tell 'em headhunter. I was thinking it, but didn't feel like saying it.
I spent the day with two veterans (one enlisted one officer) and two active duty officers and their families. God bless America.
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fucking move out of my country..
I didn't realize it was only your country...
I thought you guys were fighting for our right to discuss this failure of a President?
You have truly disappointed me HH6, from any other jackass it doesn't really mean anything, but from a Military man like yourself...
:-\
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Fucking amazing...its goddam Independence day and its bash Bush, bash the war....Bash American...fucking move out of my country..those in Canada, shut the fuck up. I spent the day on a boat with a bunch of other vets..after alot of beer we decided the American people don't deserve us. Unreal...I think if u hate your country u should move. And don't give me this Bush crap...all the hate for America was there way before Bush came to office. Get a grip...or leave.
Ostensibly you and the rest of the lower crust are fighting for the very right of Americans to "bash Bush, bash the war....Bash American". Given that you have risked your life for this cause, do you not feel like a fool when you now complain about it?
Food for thought :)
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I'm not fighting for your rights in any way shape or form. U guys can bash bush all u want...but not the country. I'm fighting for the guy next to me, for the survival of the country. And when u guys come on and explode on how "bad' America is...fuck u.... travel outside the tourist hotspots...most countries suck. And "Lower crust....I bet i have 3 times the education level u do..been to a million more place..met way more important people..who the hell are u. These kids who are fighting are best of us...who else gives a shit enough about anything to lay down their lives. I find ur comments offensive...lower crust ::)
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“A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” —Samuel Adams
That's deep.
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Fucking amazing...its goddam Independence day and its bash Bush, bash the war....Bash American...fucking move out of my country..those in Canada, shut the fuck up. I spent the day on a boat with a bunch of other vets..after alot of beer we decided the American people don't deserve us. Unreal...I think if u hate your country u should move. And don't give me this Bush crap...all the hate for America was there way before Bush came to office. Get a grip...or leave.
{LOL} I think someone has had a few too many beers. :P
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Well we've surrendered our virtue...but whos' the invader Bush or the rags..not sure. Ones an idiot that will be voted out soon and the other's not going anywhere anytime soon.
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{LOL} I think someone has had a few too many beers. :P
I went with malibu on the fourth....I could care less about bashing Bush..but not the country....no way. Anyway i have to go meet the remains of a guy that got killed 6 months ago in Iraq. They found more of him and are burying him on Monday. Enjoy your weekend :(
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I went with malibu on the fourth....I could care less about bashing Bush..but not the country....no way. Anyway i have to go meet the remains of a guy that got killed 6 months ago in Iraq. They found more of him and are burying him on Monday. Enjoy your weekend :(
Sorry to hear that. Have a safe trip major.
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Bashing BUSH is NOT bashing our country.
Bush does not equal USA.
The beauty of our country is that there is a peaceful transfer of power every 4-8 years that is influenced by US citizens. No matter how bad things get:
McCarthy commy hearings
Civil rights riots
Japanese intern camps
and BUSH
We have the capacity to change it and we do just that.
That's why i love America
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Bashing BUSH is NOT bashing our country.
Bush does not equal USA.
The beauty of our country is that there is a peaceful transfer of power every 4-8 years that is influenced by US citizens. No matter how bad things get:
McCarthy commy hearings
Civil rights riots
Japanese intern camps
and BUSH
We have the capacity to change it and we do just that.
That's why i love America
Thank you... I wish everyone understood this.
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Bashing BUSH is NOT bashing our country.
Bush does not equal USA.
The beauty of our country is that there is a peaceful transfer of power every 4-8 years that is influenced by US citizens. No matter how bad things get:
McCarthy commy hearings
Civil rights riots
Japanese intern camps
and BUSH
We have the capacity to change it and we do just that.
That's why i love America
Along with that....
Backing President Bush does not equal stupidity either....
wouldn't you agree that this is the very mindset of those who do not back the president?
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Along with that....
Backing President Bush does not equal stupidity either....
wouldn't you agree that this is the very mindset of those who do not back the president?
I think backing the president from the view point of having respect for the office is one thing. Backing the president because you truely feel he is doing the right thing and you base this belief on logic and reason is another. both are valid IMO.
BUT, just saying a person is stupid for backing the president without finding out why is not right.
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I think backing the president from the view point of having respect for the office is one thing. Backing the president because you truely feel he is doing the right thing and you base this belief on logic and reason is another. both are valid IMO.
BUT, just saying a person is stupid for backing the president without finding out why is not right.
you were doing good until you started your second sentence. the "log and reason" bit is a kinder way of saying "you're stupid". ;) at least you were trying to be nicer than your peers of the same mindset on this board.
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you were doing good until you started your second sentence. the "log and reason" bit is a kinder way of saying "you're stupid". ;) at least you were trying to be nicer than your peers of the same mindset on this board.
Honestly C-500 i wasn't trying to say that. I was trying to make a distinction between a blind following and following something based on logic and reason. It may have sounded that way because of the way i wrote it due to starting with "respect of for the office thing."
Personally i don;t see many people fully backing BUsh anymore, but there are plenty of people far more intelligent than me who back him. they must have their reasons and just because they back him doesn't mean they are stupid.
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Honestly C-500 i wasn't trying to say that. I was trying to make a distinction between a blind following and following something based on logic and reason. It may have sounded that way because of the way i wrote it due to starting with "respect of for the office thing."
Personally i don;t see many people fully backing BUsh anymore, but there are plenty of people far more intelligent than me who back him. they must have their reasons and just because they back him doesn't mean they are stupid.
I believe you, bro. But I'm not too convinced that others feel the same as you do.
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Some of the smartest people in the world still support Bush, lots of us did in 2000. It depends on your view of the United States and the World.
I think at the moment its extremely hard to ignore all the ways in which Bush and Co. are screwing the United States and the American People.
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And "Lower crust....I bet i have 3 times the education level u do..been to a million more place..met way more important people..who the hell are u.
You do an excellent job hiding it :)
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Bashing BUSH is NOT bashing our country.
Bush does not equal USA.
The beauty of our country is that there is a peaceful transfer of power every 4-8 years that is influenced by US citizens. No matter how bad things get:
McCarthy commy hearings
Civil rights riots
Japanese intern camps
and BUSH
We have the capacity to change it and we do just that.
That's why i love America
I agree. I think headhunter was upset because you have this bash Bush rhetoric on the day we are celebrating our country's independence.
I also agree with Colossus that there is this sentiment that if you support Bush you're "stupid," etc. I know people who support him and those who don't. You even have idiots saying if you don't believe Bush is the worst president in history there must be something wrong with you. ::)
Frankly, even with the opinion polls so low, I don't view the Bush hatred as any different than Clinton hatred from the 90s.
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I'm starting to think BUSH really believes he was doing the right thing for moral and principle reasons.
A few weeks ago didn't he veto legislation on stem cell research? Didn't he sight moral and religious reasons? In the years to come that can potentially be a huge economic missed opportunity.
He's trying to retain his deep following in the south, many of whom are dumbfucks and think stemcell research is murder or something. If Bush lay dying, then don't tell me he'd pass up an opportunity to be saved by stemcells if the science was there.
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He's trying to retain his deep following in the south, many of whom are dumbfucks and think stemcell research is murder or something.
Good observation; it is a blatantly political move.
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how does it feel to know it all ?
must be amazing. ::)
I make do. ;)
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He's trying to retain his deep following in the south, many of whom are dumbfucks and think stemcell research is murder or something. If Bush lay dying, then don't tell me he'd pass up an opportunity to be saved by stemcells if the science was there.
Yeah, people's morality often is situational. But since his situation doesn't require a change he'll stay on his high horse.
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Guess where I have been for the 4th of July? ;D
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Boston Bytches.....
I'm off to the North End to have some Italian Food.
Jag you want a Italian sausage? hehe
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yeah right, if this fascism that we got gypped