Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: HowieW on March 13, 2008, 03:52:41 PM
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1. Various steroids and HGh class drugs, etc are a definite advantage in bodybuilding contests.
2. Without any viable drug testing program, pros have to use these drugs to be able to compete on a level playing field.
3. Much of this kind of drug use is against the federal drug laws.
4. Thus, in order to compete as top pro and do well, you are REQUIRED to break the current drug laws.
Please don't refute it based on something other than THIS legal issue.I have heard some defend drug use in the IFBB pros as "what the fans want" which is PERSONAL opinion. It doesn't change the LEGAL reality.
If you drive at 100 mph down a US highway, you can't use " most want to drive this fast" as defense for breaking the speed limit.
Thanks Howard
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Your premises 1 - 3 are correct.
Conclusion 4 follows immediately from premises 1 - 3.
Your argument is correct and valid.
Congrats Howie. You can pass a freshman philosophy class ::)
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That was very enlightening Howard, thankyou ::) ::)
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1. Various steroids and HGh class drugs, etc are a definite advantage in bodybuilding contests.
2. Without any viable drug testing program, pros have to use these drugs to be able to compete on a level playing field.
3. Much of this kind of drug use is against the federal drug laws.
4. Thus, in order to compete as top pro and do well, you are REQUIRED to break the current drug laws.
Please don't refute it based on something other than THIS legal issue.I have heard some defend drug use in the IFBB pros as "what the fans want" which is PERSONAL opinion. It doesn't change the LEGAL reality.
If you drive at 100 mph down a US highway, you can't use " most want to drive this fast" as defense for breaking the speed limit.
Thanks Howard
thanks!
(http://www.vitalsecurity.org/uploaded_images/cap_obv-758346.jpg)
captain obvious to the rescue
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ok, I know this is obvious and that is why I posted it.
The big question is, why doesn't anyone care?Especially the actual pro bodybuilders that are taking the lions share of the legal risks here.
Look, I personally don't think personal steroid use should be illegal.
My concern is for the pros I admire. Under the current lack of testing policy, the IFBB is essentially makes it mandatory to take illegal drugs, yet they have no intention of trying to change thr drug laws as they now exist. The fans get a good show and bigger , better pro on stage. The promoters can sell more tickets. At the end of the day, after the dust clears, it is the pro bodybuilder who suffers the legal and health risks and finacial burdens of extreme drug use.
One would think , that based on these negative aspects, most pros would lobby for a complete change in policy. I have met many of the pros and find some of them to very smart ,sensible people.
I once considered trying to go hardcore and making all or none run for a pro card. I then weighed the cost-risk/ bennefit ratio of extreme bodybuilding drug use vs the possible bennefits and concluded it was too skewed to the negative side.To me, it wlould be like buying a house and not bothering to get insurance . Am I just wrong or misguided here? What am I missing?
I just don't "get" the whole attraction to extreme drug use considering all the negative aspects?? sorry?
Howard
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The IFBB has a drug testing policy. ::)
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Do you guys think that Jay, Ronnie, or other top guys have at least some drug access via legal prescription?
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The IFBB has a drug testing policy. ::)
It does and THAT is part of my issue. Imagine this( idea based on something Ramano wrote in MD years ago):
The Team U winner gets his/her pro card and competes in a pro show as a clean bodybuilder.
They don't place in the money and then file suit against the IFBB pro div. The suit would be based on the idea that the IFBB failed to enforce its' own rules and failed to provide a fair venue of competition to a pro athlete that obeyed the actual, established, written rules.
What do you think?
Howard
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Do you guys think that Jay, Ronnie, or other top guys have at least some drug access via legal prescription?
It is possible. But Is suspect that much of it is "off the record". No way would a legit MD prescibe the doseage these guys use.
Plus, the IFBB has 48 pgs of rules against it.
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It does and THAT is part of my issue. Imagine this( idea based on something Ramano wrote in MD years ago):
The Team U winner gets his/her pro card and competes in a pro show as a clean bodybuilder.
They don't place in the money and then file suit against the IFBB pro div. The suit would be based on the idea that the IFBB failed to enforce its' own rules and failed to provide a fair venue of competition to a pro athlete that obeyed the actual, established, written rules.
What do you think?
Howard
It's simple...they pick & choose when to use it & when not to. That's all....you think guys like Ronnie, Jay, Dexter, etc are tested? No. They may test the random forth tier guy or something (if that). But then again the rules regarding drug testing are no different then the other rules. They'll pick & choose when to enforce those too.
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It's simple...they pick & choose when to use it & when not to. That's all....you think guys like Ronnie, Jay, Dexter, etc are tested? No. They may test the random forth tier guy or something (if that). But then again the rules regarding drug testing are no different then the other rules. They'll pick & choose when to enforce those too.
Not really. The last time they actually tested was in 2001 and busted Jay for the diuretics ( he was a controversial 2nd behind an off Ronnie, remember). Jay is a smart guy and challenged the Dq ruling of the IFBB. The IFBb backed off and claimed it wad due to the fact that the testing was not done in an IOC approved lab.
I supect it had a lot more to do with the fact that the IFBB pro div didn't want their scam drug testing policy exposed in open court in front of a NON bodybuilding judge.
Imagine the judge asking to see the number of steroid tests on the record over the last 20 years ??!!!
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i have a news flash for ya.. many pros have prescripts for gear use.. that has been stated many times.. so in your logic, if a pro just goes to the uk , mexico, south america, or many other euro countries it is ok in your book?.. btw, it is also illegal to smoke pot, drive under the influence, ect ect.. yet, millions do everyday..
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Body building died when those drugs became necessary. Today it is lunacy to compete as a pro. The risks are too high. The IFBB refuses to do the right thing because they evolved over decades fearing that another organization would get the drug users. This thinking remains today.
For some bizarre reason a politician can co-host a contest without drug testing of competitors. How is that possible in America?
If anyone wants to see how crazy this sport is go read Nasser's interview and what he experienced with a shoulder infection and how he coped with that issue. If you didn't read it you would not believe what a so-called intelligent bodybuilder did. If his example is typical of what the pros are doing then this sport is totally sick.
Come to think about it there isn't much talk about training theories anymore. People now believe you need the latest drugs to compete at the highest level. Quite frankly, I think all bodybuilders should be ashamed of what has happened to this sport.
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Body building died when those drugs became necessary. Today it is lunacy to compete as a pro. The risks are too high. The IFBB refuses to do the right thing because they evolved over decades fearing that another organization would get the drug users. This thinking remains today.
For some bizarre reason a politician can co-host a contest without drug testing of competitors. How is that possible in America?
If anyone wants to see how crazy this sport is go read Nasser's interview and what he experienced with a shoulder infection and how he coped with that issue. If you didn't read it you would not believe what a so-called intelligent bodybuilder did. If his example is typical of what the pros are doing then this sport is totally sick.
Come to think about it there isn't much talk about training theories anymore. People now believe you need the latest drugs to compete at the highest level. Quite frankly, I think all bodybuilders should be ashamed of what has happened to this sport.
well said here Vince!
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i have a news flash for ya.. many pros have prescripts for gear use.. that has been stated many times.. so in your logic, if a pro just goes to the uk , mexico, south america, or many other euro countries it is ok in your book?.. btw, it is also illegal to smoke pot, drive under the influence, ect ect.. yet, millions do everyday..
In all honesty your counter point is classic "bait and switch". It doesn't change the basic idea that to compete in bodybuilding as a pro today, you are REQUIRED to break the US Federal drug laws, say nothing of the 48 pgs of rules the IFBB pro dov has against the use of these same drugs!
This is like trying to compare, driving on the German Autobahn at 100 mph vs a US highway.
Plus, c'mon, if the current drug use was ok and 100% legal, why would be such a hushed up topic and why won't any IFBB official talk openly about it?For the record, again....I think drug use should be LEGAL, but I don't make or enforce the law!
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Not really. The last time they actually tested was in 2001 and busted Jay for the diuretics ( he was a controversial 2nd behind an off Ronnie, remember). Jay is a smart guy and challenged the Dq ruling of the IFBB. The IFBb backed off and claimed it wad due to the fact that the testing was not done in an IOC approved lab.
I supect it had a lot more to do with the fact that the IFBB pro div didn't want their scam drug testing policy exposed in open court in front of a NON bodybuilding judge.
Imagine the judge asking to see the number of steroid tests on the record over the last 20 years ??!!!
That was the last drug test we've heard of. I'm sure Chick will bring out a few more. I'm just saying they probably randomly test a few hear & there (so they can say they're doing it). Who knows? I'm about 100% positive no one will admit or give a reason why they don't test the top tier guys with regularity.
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What I find interesting is that the pro's (I've spoken to) is that they cannot wait for retirement so they can get off the drugs they're on.
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It isn't just the drugs. Competitors are injecting substances to make the muscles look bigger. That isn't bodybuilding. Women can have silicon boobs. That isn't natural. Cheating is allowed on so many levels. As spokesman Bob C said, if it isn't obvious then it is okay.
Anyone who has been around for decades knows that the IFBB fears other organizations. That is why they came down hard on those who 'defected'. Whoever has the best competitors controls bodybuilding. Thus, drugs have been part of the equation. If you drug test those competitors will go elsewhere.
I don't understand why Ben Weider was given a lifetime achievement award. He failed to get bodybuilding accepted by the Olympic committee. He formed an organization with rules but doesn't always enforce those rules. Ben did a lot but he also allowed bodybuilding to be contaminated and distorted beyond what he originally envisioned. I would be ashamed at what the sport has become if I were associated with running the IFBB. The buck has to stop somewhere and both Arnold and Ben have not done the right thing. Look at the result of their inaction and tolerance for drugs and injecting substances to make the muscles look bigger.
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Body building died when those drugs became necessary. Today it is lunacy to compete as a pro. The risks are too high. The IFBB refuses to do the right thing because they evolved over decades fearing that another organization would get the drug users. This thinking remains today.
For some bizarre reason a politician can co-host a contest without drug testing of competitors. How is that possible in America?
If anyone wants to see how crazy this sport is go read Nasser's interview and what he experienced with a shoulder infection and how he coped with that issue. If you didn't read it you would not believe what a so-called intelligent bodybuilder did. If his example is typical of what the pros are doing then this sport is totally sick.
Come to think about it there isn't much talk about training theories anymore. People now believe you need the latest drugs to compete at the highest level. Quite frankly, I think all bodybuilders should be ashamed of what has happened to this sport.
I don't know if it died due to drugs. Perhaps drugs gave it a push instead, despite its low popularity still. Wouldn't we be bored seeing Steve Reeves being the biggest and best physique still? I know I would.
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ok, I know this is obvious and that is why I posted it.
The big question is, why doesn't anyone care?Especially the actual pro bodybuilders that are taking the lions share of the legal risks here.
Look, I personally don't think personal steroid use should be illegal.
My concern is for the pros I admire. Under the current lack of testing policy, the IFBB is essentially makes it mandatory to take illegal drugs, yet they have no intention of trying to change thr drug laws as they now exist. The fans get a good show and bigger , better pro on stage. The promoters can sell more tickets. At the end of the day, after the dust clears, it is the pro bodybuilder who suffers the legal and health risks and finacial burdens of extreme drug use.
One would think , that based on these negative aspects, most pros would lobby for a complete change in policy. I have met many of the pros and find some of them to very smart ,sensible people.
I once considered trying to go hardcore and making all or none run for a pro card. I then weighed the cost-risk/ bennefit ratio of extreme bodybuilding drug use vs the possible bennefits and concluded it was too skewed to the negative side.To me, it wlould be like buying a house and not bothering to get insurance . Am I just wrong or misguided here? What am I missing?
I just don't "get" the whole attraction to extreme drug use considering all the negative aspects?? sorry?
Howard
Think about this: you and me both are here talking about mostly drug physiques day in and day out. Extreme drug use DOES hold some attraction, even for you. Drug use and its effects are very attractive to most of us.
Let's say you knew you could be a top pro if you used the average amount of drugs the pros use. I bet you would seriously contemplate it even knowing about the health risks. Many of us use drugs despite us knowing we will never be anything in bodybuilding. It's just that attractive.
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Body building died when those drugs became necessary.
which drugs? steroids became necessary in the late 50s, GH in the late 80s, insulin in the early 90s, synthol and site injections in the last 5 years.
btw, you're only breaking US laws when you're in the US. You can be a pro bodybuilders without committing felonies in parts of Europe and most of Latin America.
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which drugs? steroids became necessary in the late 50s, GH in the late 80s, insulin in the early 90s, synthol and site injections in the last 5 years.
btw, you're only breaking US laws when you're in the US. You can be a pro bodybuilders without committing felonies in parts of Europe and most of Latin America.
QFT! Why the US gvt has such a paranoid obsession with weird stuff, I'll never know...
They declared a war on alcohol, and alcohol prospered.
They declared a war on poverty, and poverty prospered.
They declared a war on drugs, and drugs prospered.
Now they have a war on terror... Is anyone else worried this might not go so well ?
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1. Various steroids and HGh class drugs, etc are a definite advantage in bodybuilding contests.
2. Without any viable drug testing program, pros have to use these drugs to be able to compete on a level playing field.
3. Much of this kind of drug use is against the federal drug laws.
4. Thus, in order to compete as top pro and do well, you are REQUIRED to break the current drug laws.
Please don't refute it based on something other than THIS legal issue.I have heard some defend drug use in the IFBB pros as "what the fans want" which is PERSONAL opinion. It doesn't change the LEGAL reality.
If you drive at 100 mph down a US highway, you can't use " most want to drive this fast" as defense for breaking the speed limit.
Thanks Howard
What about the guys who go off shore to hormonize? Where its legal to use!
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Your premises 1 - 3 are correct.
Conclusion 4 follows immediately from premises 1 - 3.
Your argument is correct and valid.
Congrats Howie. You can pass a freshman philosophy class ::)
lol...
no, because premise 3 says "MUCH of this drug use is against the law"
and his conclusion states that "breaking the law is REQUIRED"
which is not so, according to his premise, because only MUCH of the drug use is illegal, not ALL.... so that would mean that there is a way that the universe could be wher eyou are competitive and not breaking the law.
INVALID ARGUMENT! ;D
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lol...
no, because premise 3 says "MUCH of this drug use is against the law"
and his conclusion states that "breaking the law is REQUIRED"
which is not so, according to his premise, because only MUCH of the drug use is illegal, not ALL.... so that would mean that there is a way that the universe could be wher eyou are competitive and not breaking the law.
INVALID ARGUMENT! ;D
I must yield. You win :)
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This is a question for Bob Chick he is the competitors rep and he will tell you all about the IFBB DRUG testing and how many Pros have been tested in the last five years??????It's a Fukin joke and we know it's not all illegal with the law but read the banned substance rule in the IFBB rule book.Pro Drug use = Pro.
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Steroids have been around for donkeys years. That is true. When I started training in Jan 1959 there was little talk of steroids. It wasn't long before I heard about them and then when I was at university it wasn't clear that they even worked. We heard rumours that strength improved and if anyone has ever done Olympic lifting he will know how impossible the best records seemed to most of us. If you could press 255 imagine what you thought of some who did 400 pounds?
The physiques seemed to be getting bigger and bigger. Along came Bill Pearl in the 1960s looking huge. He won way back in 53 with a different physique. We heard about those drugs but few would admit to using them. There was just no way any sensible guy would even think of trying them. It was considered cheating to do so. Plus, everyone was afraid that steroids might cause cancer. When Tom Sansone died at a relatively young age we all wondered why. There wasn't much information available and most knowledge was kept in tight circles of friends.
Eventually guys started admitting they used drugs. Arnold said he used them before contests. It was a matter of time before guys were using throughout the year and stacking many kinds of drugs. Guys with weak bodyparts tried other ways to increase calves, deltoids, etc. Body enhancement became a fine art.
What do we find today? Well, would any college graduate think the risks are worth it? I doubt it. So we end up with rather ordinary guys who are virtual daredevils and try just about anything to get an advantage to look bigger and harder. It really has become crazy. I can't find another word that describes the mentality of the professionals.
Instead of discussing training programs and exercises many want to know the latest drug protocols. That isn't bodybuilding. It is chemistry. That pro bodybuilding has descended into a high risk/low return sport is bizarre. Who would have believed this would come to be the norm? The IFBB has no clue and no vision about solving this problem. Everyone puts their collective heads in the sand and hope no one tests the competitors. It is a sham, a disgrace and just plain crazy.
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It does and THAT is part of my issue. Imagine this( idea based on something Ramano wrote in MD years ago):
The Team U winner gets his/her pro card and competes in a pro show as a clean bodybuilder.
They don't place in the money and then file suit against the IFBB pro div. The suit would be based on the idea that the IFBB failed to enforce its' own rules and failed to provide a fair venue of competition to a pro athlete that obeyed the actual, established, written rules.
What do you think?
Howard
Howard...you don't really think the TU is clean???
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YES.. BUT, take drug use out of bodybuilding (which so many here seem to want) and you will not have bodybuilding.. plain and simple.. the harsh reality is that many of you bitch and moan about drug use yet, you dont support natural organizations.. why?.. well, the physiques :-\.. if it bothered you then you would be at the natural muscle boards trying to help them grow.. yet, they (the organizations) dont flourish.. you cant have drug use without some drug abuse.. it cant be regulated what one takes.. so either except drug use in bodybuilding or support the naturals.. if drug testing is enforced they , the bodybuilders, will get around it.. they do at the ifbb world championships and still have 250 pound freaks winniing.. or, someone else will put together a organization which does not test ect ect..
look guys, just enjoy the sport for what it is.. if you dont, there is numerous other hobbies you could do.. every week this argument comes around or one like it.. and guess what?.. it does not get solved.. so some might want to look into cycling (bikes ;)) like the tour de france.. i hear they drug test too.. ::) oh and by the way.. i have known a class winner at the team universe.. one of the biggest users around.. ;)
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Well said and as for Natural FFS we know of the use there but the point is it is in the IFBB rules No banned substance to be used and Pros will be drug tested.So get the rule out of the rule book.Fukin clowns.
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YES.. BUT, take drug use out of bodybuilding (which so many here seem to want) and you will not have bodybuilding.. plain and simple.. the harsh reality is that many of you bitch and moan about drug use yet, you dont support natural organizations.. why?.. well, the physiques :-\.. if it bothered you then you would be at the natural muscle boards trying to help them grow.. yet, they (the organizations) dont flourish.. you cant have drug use without some drug abuse.. it cant be regulated what one takes.. so either except drug use in bodybuilding or support the naturals.. if drug testing is enforced they , the bodybuilders, will get around it.. they do at the ifbb world championships and still have 250 pound freaks winniing.. or, someone else will put together a organization which does not test ect ect..
look guys, just enjoy the sport for what it is.. if you dont, there is numerous other hobbies you could do.. every week this argument comes around or one like it.. and guess what?.. it does not get solved.. so some might want to look into cycling (bikes ;)) like the tour de france.. i hear they drug test too.. ::) oh and by the way.. i have known a class winner at the team universe.. one of the biggest users around.. ;)
Exactly.
Get rid of the drugs and bodybuilding will dissapear (even more so). Sad but true.
Whats even more sad is that there isnt a sport out there that is clean. And if you think there is, then your crazy. This "war on steroids" will never amount to much. Its futile. There will always be a market for gear, so there will always be gear.
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What do we find today? Well, would any college graduate think the risks are worth it? I doubt it. So we end up with rather ordinary guys who are virtual daredevils and try just about anything to get an advantage to look bigger and harder. It really has become crazy. I can't find another word that describes the mentality of the professionals.
Get real. Steroids are used by every part of society. There are medical doctors competing in bb on the national level.
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Steroids have been around for donkeys years. That is true. When I started training in Jan 1959 there was little talk of steroids. It wasn't long before I heard about them and then when I was at university it wasn't clear that they even worked. We heard rumours that strength improved and if anyone has ever done Olympic lifting he will know how impossible the best records seemed to most of us. If you could press 255 imagine what you thought of some who did 400 pounds?
The physiques seemed to be getting bigger and bigger. Along came Bill Pearl in the 1960s looking huge. He won way back in 53 with a different physique. We heard about those drugs but few would admit to using them. There was just no way any sensible guy would even think of trying them. It was considered cheating to do so. Plus, everyone was afraid that steroids might cause cancer. When Tom Sansone died at a relatively young age we all wondered why. There wasn't much information available and most knowledge was kept in tight circles of friends.
Eventually guys started admitting they used drugs. Arnold said he used them before contests. It was a matter of time before guys were using throughout the year and stacking many kinds of drugs. Guys with weak bodyparts tried other ways to increase calves, deltoids, etc. Body enhancement became a fine art.
What do we find today? Well, would any college graduate think the risks are worth it? I doubt it. So we end up with rather ordinary guys who are virtual daredevils and try just about anything to get an advantage to look bigger and harder. It really has become crazy. I can't find another word that describes the mentality of the professionals.
Instead of discussing training programs and exercises many want to know the latest drug protocols. That isn't bodybuilding. It is chemistry. That pro bodybuilding has descended into a high risk/low return sport is bizarre. Who would have believed this would come to be the norm? The IFBB has no clue and no vision about solving this problem. Everyone puts their collective heads in the sand and hope no one tests the competitors. It is a sham, a disgrace and just plain crazy.
let me tell yu ofriends something,,
i can take ANY ONE ON PLANET EARTH PUT IN THEM 5-10 TABLETS DIANABOL A DAY ,,500-1 GRAM TESTOSTERONE A WEEK ,, AND 400-600 MG NANDROLONE DECANOATE A WEEK AND MAKE THEM A NATIONAL COMPETITOR IN A MATTER OF 2-5 YEARS OF SERIOUS TRAINING 2 OF THEM ON CONSTANT USE OF NEEDED HORMONES,,
THE PLACING IN THE NATIONAL WILL BE DETERMINED ON SYMETRY ,,,MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT,,WIDNESS IN RELASHION TO TIGHTNESS OF WAIST ,,MUSCLE SHAPE,,,AND C O N D I T I O N
all of the above in 2008 should be accompanied with good size because every one is on drugs so no reason for being small any mnore unless youre light weight or under
take dianabol out of bodybuilding,,take testoterone out of bodybuilding ,,,take nandrolone out of bodybuilding and guess what...you got bonebuilding
drugs is integral part of bodybuilding and sports in general ,,,every one is on it and every one needs it for long career and inorder to compete on a level field ,,the ones who dont use it are the exeptions and always always always get screwed ,,i wish it was different but its not,,
i can take kevin tomorrow morning at a weight of 178 lb put him on 10 tablet dianabol a day and make him show at your local party within 6 weeks a screaming muscle bound 240lb looking 260 lb ,,,its not the same for everyone but trust me ,,,anyone can put the muscle to be 220lb + with thsoe hormones which are natural to the body by the way thus shouldnt be considered drugs and wont in 5-7 years
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vince, no offense but, you are pretty detached from reality when it comes to gear.. you asked "would any college graduate take the risk".. have you seen the stats.. there has been numerous studies published that show most roid users are college grads and above average income.. the last count in the usa was that 2-3 million have used steroids.. we all know there are not many pro bodybuilders.. so that leaves quite a few other partaking.. as i stated before, the vast majority of gear users are not low lifes.. college grads and good incomes.. that stat was just on espn news not long ago also..
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take dianabol out of bodybuilding,,take testoterone out of bodybuilding ,,,take nandrolone out of bodybuilding and guess what...you got bonebuilding
LOL :D
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vince, no offense but, you are pretty detached from reality when it comes to gear.. you asked "would any college graduate take the risk".. have you seen the stats.. there has been numerous studies published that show most roid users are college grads and above average income.. the last count in the usa was that 2-3 million have used steroids.. we all know there are not many pro bodybuilders.. so that leaves quite a few other partaking.. as i stated before, the vast majority of gear users are not low lifes.. college grads and good incomes.. that sta was just on espn news not long ago also..
I really think Vince is the most delusional person on the whole board.
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There is so much crap posted re drugs on these boards. I don't see any experts re this subject. Just a bunch of know-it-alls and that is a recipe for the status quo we find. Believers become abusers. Simple as that.
While college grads might try steroids as a fair risk I wonder how many would subscribe to what the pros are using? It isn't just the growth drugs. Guys need a lift to train and then other substances to come down and relax. The drug culture is loco. I could care less how many are practicing this lifestyle. It has nothing to do with bodybuilding.
Perhaps we can find shortcuts to size that are natural and if so this will be part of the future. When bodybuilders have to use untested substances from underground sources this compounds the lunacy and certifies everyone who is a pro. What does anyone get out of all of that risk?
I don't consider using Gh, insulin and recreational drugs natural training. The steroids are different in small doses. However, bodybuilders have pushed the line of acceptability until it is just plain crazy. Even gh15 posted a long list of substances required by the top pros to compete. That is so far beyond what is sensible I don't know what to say. We have had guys die from what they do to prepare for contests. It amazes many of us that more haven't suffered. I well remember arguing with Ray Mentzer about steroids and he called them gonad stimulators. He died age 47 in 2001. What a shame.
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Ray clipped himself after they found Mike not sure if his death was drug related.
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ok, I know this is obvious and that is why I posted it.
The big question is, why doesn't anyone care?Especially the actual pro bodybuilders that are taking the lions share of the legal risks here.
Look, I personally don't think personal steroid use should be illegal.
My concern is for the pros I admire. Under the current lack of testing policy, the IFBB is essentially makes it mandatory to take illegal drugs, yet they have no intention of trying to change thr drug laws as they now exist. The fans get a good show and bigger , better pro on stage. The promoters can sell more tickets. At the end of the day, after the dust clears, it is the pro bodybuilder who suffers the legal and health risks and finacial burdens of extreme drug use.
One would think , that based on these negative aspects, most pros would lobby for a complete change in policy. I have met many of the pros and find some of them to very smart ,sensible people.
I once considered trying to go hardcore and making all or none run for a pro card. I then weighed the cost-risk/ bennefit ratio of extreme bodybuilding drug use vs the possible bennefits and concluded it was too skewed to the negative side.To me, it wlould be like buying a house and not bothering to get insurance . Am I just wrong or misguided here? What am I missing?
I just don't "get" the whole attraction to extreme drug use considering all the negative aspects?? sorry?
Howard
The only way for drug barons to make money is to lobby the government to keep drugs illegal. If these drugs weren't illegal they would have no value. They are not inherently valuable. The cost simply absorbs the risk of these drugs being sold on the black market. No risk = no profit. Drugs will never become legal due to the powerful interests who benefit from the drug world. Stop presuming that obviously failed public policy happens by accident. Those behind the scenes know that legalizing drugs would benefit society. The point of drugs being illegal is to sustain a one trillion dollar per year world industry.
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I don't know if it died due to drugs. Perhaps drugs gave it a push instead, despite its low popularity still. Wouldn't we be bored seeing Steve Reeves being the biggest and best physique still? I know I would.
I have explained this before...bodybuilding never has been, and never will be, popular. Why? Because it is BORING AS FUCK to see men in thongs pose on stage. It really is that simple. It's not like other sports which have a degree of excitement. The concept of seeing men go through quarter turns and posing is simply not entertaining. It is so simple, yet people keep questioning what it would take to turn bodybuilding into something with market appeal. I will answer that now: it is not possible.
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Matt C, you really are a Debbie Downer, you know that?
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YES.. BUT, take drug use out of bodybuilding (which so many here seem to want) and you will not have bodybuilding.. plain and simple.. the harsh reality is that many of you bitch and moan about drug use yet, you dont support natural organizations.. why?.. well, the physiques :-\.. if it bothered you then you would be at the natural muscle boards trying to help them grow.. yet, they (the organizations) dont flourish.. you cant have drug use without some drug abuse.. it cant be regulated what one takes.. so either except drug use in bodybuilding or support the naturals.. if drug testing is enforced they , the bodybuilders, will get around it.. they do at the ifbb world championships and still have 250 pound freaks winniing.. or, someone else will put together a organization which does not test ect ect..
look guys, just enjoy the sport for what it is.. if you dont, there is numerous other hobbies you could do.. every week this argument comes around or one like it.. and guess what?.. it does not get solved.. so some might want to look into cycling (bikes ;)) like the tour de france.. i hear they drug test too.. ::) oh and by the way.. i have known a class winner at the team universe.. one of the biggest users around.. ;)
While this is thoughtful dialogue, it veers off from my main idea.
That is , if you want to compete as top bodybuilder, you are REQUIRED to break the drug laws and risk legal troubles.
How can we defend pro bodybuildings policy of required drug use, when the issue can't even but talked about in an open, candid manner by top IFBB officials.
Think about. If the only way pro bodybuilding shows can survive is by required drugs use by the pros, what kind of sport do we have? The pros bear most of the legal burdens here and I wish they didn't have to.
However, I don't hear too many pros say they wish the sport was drug free.??????
Yet, if these same pros get busted for drugs, they act all innocent and cry "What happened, why poor lil me?"
This is like jumping off a cliff and wondering why you hit the ground hard.
I know some will ahev cheated in the Team U, but by looking at the winners , it is obvious that the drug testing is keeping the extreme , obvious use at bay. Other sports do try to stop the drug use and actually do something about it.
Bodybuilding not only looks the other way, they ENCOURAGE and quietly support the use of drugged bodybuilders.
If drug testing is such a joke and never works ,why do so many fear it being used? Hmmmmmm.
Howard
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Think about this: you and me both are here talking about mostly drug physiques day in and day out. Extreme drug use DOES hold some attraction, even for you. Drug use and its effects are very attractive to most of us.
Let's say you knew you could be a top pro if you used the average amount of drugs the pros use. I bet you would seriously contemplate it even knowing about the health risks. Many of us use drugs despite us knowing we will never be anything in bodybuilding. It's just that attractive.
I did think about just THAT, in the mid 80's and made a serious stab at serious bodybuilding.
I took various, small amounts of typical BB drugs from 83-86. I did ok and even won some shows.
I competed and got my first big win, with a 1st in the Lt Hvy class at the NPC 1986 Golds Classic in NC. I lost the overall to masters champ and current pro Johnny Stewart.
By 1987, I knew I was good enough to make a dent on a national stage if just upped the drugs a bit and stayed with it. I also knew I would NEVER be a top 6 Olympia pro,not matter what I took, even if I got a pro card.Thus, I figured the cost /bennefit ratio for me and stopped roid use in early 1987. It was simple logic , that caused me to stop that path, return to college and later start a career as chemistry and physics teacher.
As a bodybuilder pro wanna be, I personally would have ended up up as gym bum with no credit, career or home, etc.
Today at near age 50, I am happy and secure with my life and glad I didn't throw it away on a crazy roid fueled delusion of bodybuilding glory that would have never happened.I invested in my career and education instead.
No, it is not as cool or wonderful as being a top pro, but, it was a sure bet and one I am happy I made.
I also have the luxury of enjoying bodybuilding on MY terms, not those dictated by whatever wacky standard the current sport demands. I can enjoy watching the best pros with extreme levels of muscle from the comfort of my seat.
I then return to my life, my gym and train in my own way, on my own terms with no need to feel guilty or sad.
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There is so much crap posted re drugs on these boards. I don't see any experts re this subject. Just a bunch of know-it-alls and that is a recipe for the status quo we find. Believers become abusers. Simple as that.
While college grads might try steroids as a fair risk I wonder how many would subscribe to what the pros are using? It isn't just the growth drugs. Guys need a lift to train and then other substances to come down and relax. The drug culture is loco. I could care less how many are practicing this lifestyle. It has nothing to do with bodybuilding.
Perhaps we can find shortcuts to size that are natural and if so this will be part of the future. When bodybuilders have to use untested substances from underground sources this compounds the lunacy and certifies everyone who is a pro. What does anyone get out of all of that risk?
I don't consider using Gh, insulin and recreational drugs natural training. The steroids are different in small doses. However, bodybuilders have pushed the line of acceptability until it is just plain crazy. Even gh15 posted a long list of substances required by the top pros to compete. That is so far beyond what is sensible I don't know what to say. We have had guys die from what they do to prepare for contests. It amazes many of us that more haven't suffered. I well remember arguing with Ray Mentzer about steroids and he called them gonad stimulators. He died age 47 in 2001. What a shame.
You may think Vince is out of tocuh with reality, but the guy did win Mr Canada back in his day. He also knows, that like me just becuase the current culture supports and glorifies drug use does NOT mean you have to follow it.
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I have explained this before...bodybuilding never has been, and never will be, popular. Why? Because it is BORING AS FUCK to see men in thongs pose on stage. It really is that simple. It's not like other sports which have a degree of excitement. The concept of seeing men go through quarter turns and posing is simply not entertaining. It is so simple, yet people keep questioning what it would take to turn bodybuilding into something with market appeal. I will answer that now: it is not possible.
Myself, and many other bodybuilders i know of, would strongly disagree with you.
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Myself, and many other bodybuilders i know of, would strongly disagree with you.
I agree and for every hard core freak lover that was lost if the pro sport went drug tested, you would gain 5 more mainstream fans. Howard
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fuck that.
'mainstream' can suck my dick....bodybuilding isnt about being pretty
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fuck that.
'mainstream' can suck my dick....bodybuilding isnt about being pretty
LOL, having the mainstream "suck your dick" attitude is NOT the best way to for BB to gain new fans and apeal, my friend. Hmmm, and some hardcore types wonder why the so called normal "mainstream" doesn't cozy up to them....go figure, I wonder why???LOL
I know what you mean, having fathers bringing their kids to major league baseball or NFL football, really was bad for the sport huh?
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LOL, having the mainstream "suck your dick" attitude is NOT the best way to for BB to gain new fans and apeal, my friend. Hmmm, and some hardcore types wonder why the so called normal "mainstream" doesn't cozy up to them....go figure, I wonder why???LOL
I know what you mean, having fathers bringing their kids to major league baseball or NFL football, really was bad for the sport huh?
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i dont give a fuck if bodybuilding is popular with a bunch of fat, lazy, stupid americans. what does that matter?
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1. Various steroids and HGh class drugs, etc are a definite advantage in bodybuilding contests.
2. Without any viable drug testing program, pros have to use these drugs to be able to compete on a level playing field.
3. Much of this kind of drug use is against the federal drug laws.
4. Thus, in order to compete as top pro and do well, you are REQUIRED to break the current drug laws.
Please don't refute it based on something other than THIS legal issue.I have heard some defend drug use in the IFBB pros as "what the fans want" which is PERSONAL opinion. It doesn't change the LEGAL reality.
If you drive at 100 mph down a US highway, you can't use " most want to drive this fast" as defense for breaking the speed limit.
Thanks Howard
Howard....make up your mind, buddy.
Last time I checked, you still SUPPORT this industry by going to shows and the like. If you honestly want this issue resolved and bbing cleaned up, perhaps you should stop spending your hard earned dough on it. Fuck, I love bbing too, but this current circus of scumbags and criminals is unacceptable.
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I have explained this before...bodybuilding never has been, and never will be, popular. Why? Because it is BORING AS FUCK to see men in thongs pose on stage. It really is that simple. It's not like other sports which have a degree of excitement. The concept of seeing men go through quarter turns and posing is simply not entertaining. It is so simple, yet people keep questioning what it would take to turn bodybuilding into something with market appeal. I will answer that now: it is not possible.
Yes bodybuilding shows are boring as hell. The only time I go to a show is when I support and help a friend backstage, etc. The ONLY reason many of us follow bodybuilding at all is to see something extraordinarily grotesque, something that makes our jaw drop, something only achieved with extreme drug use.
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AMEN.. those that pay for the shows, tickets, supplements ect generaly want to see jaw dropping physiques.. haidar, ect are not going to put ass in the seats..
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Howard....make up your mind, buddy.
Last time I checked, you still SUPPORT this industry by going to shows and the like. If you honestly want this issue resolved and bbing cleaned up, perhaps you should stop spending your hard earned dough on it. Fuck, I love bbing too, but this current circus of scumbags and criminals is unacceptable.
Hmmm, you make a good point about my continued support of pro bodybuilding in its' present state.
I love bodybuilding and would actually PREFER seeing the top pros on a lot less drugs.
I would support drug tested IFBB pro shows as much as I could, trust me.
Having said that, I am first and formost, a fan of bodybuilding. Granted, I don't agree with the lack of drug testing in the IFBB , but that still won't keep me going to major events. I still respect the hard work and strict diet regimes the pros endure to put a ripped bopdy on the pro stage. I know that the drugs tend to increase the mass of the muscles , but they would be GREAT physquies WITHOUT drugs, just smaller.
The drug myth persists , in part, due to the pro wanna be with lousy genetics and/or poor training and diet habbits.
It is a ready made excuse as to why someone is not all that great a bodybuilder, and why the pros are so much better.
If they just get on that magical drug cycle, they can win a pro card and qualify for the Olympia.
Take away that myth and these same wanna be's are left with no delusions or false hope. Reality and absulute truth can be cruel.
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This is a question for Bob Chick he is the competitors rep and he will tell you all about the IFBB DRUG testing and how many Pros have been tested in the last five years??????It's a Fukin joke and we know it's not all illegal with the law but read the banned substance rule in the IFBB rule book.Pro Drug use = Pro.
Bob is a lot more candid when talking to him in person , off the record in casual conversation with a sincere fan , like me and others. He feels that bigger and harder pro bodybuilders can draw a bigger audiance and help the sport gain financial backers and advertisers, etc. He is no fool and is not going to openly discuss any specific drug stuff, in public at an expo however. Bob Chic is pretty realistic and wants the best for bodybuilding, no question about it.
Bob is a pro and works as the pros rep along with being ovolved with Pro BB radio and bodybuilding.com, etc.
By problem with Bob's ideas is not in the practical nature of them as what he says is true. My issue is the fact that nobody can openly talk about drug use in pro bodybuilding. In the current political climate against steroids, this is a sure way to end up having the bodybuilding drug issue explode in our face.As a political Junkie, I am amazed at how the world of bodybuilding acts like they can just ignore the drug laws and expect nothing will happens to our sport??!!!
I sncerely hope I am wrong as I really going to the pro events. The IFBB lineup of contests is starting to expand and I enjoy the smaller pro events.
Howard
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Yes bodybuilding shows are boring as hell. The only time I go to a show is when I support and help a friend backstage, etc. The ONLY reason many of us follow bodybuilding at all is to see something extraordinarily grotesque, something that makes our jaw drop, something only achieved with extreme drug use.
I hear this "arguement" made in favor of drugged bodybuilders a lot. It may be what a lot fans like, but it does NOTHING to deal with the legal issue. Just because some guys into cars like to drive fast and peal out , doesn't mean they can drive 100 mph with their car on fire down a US hwy , and use " because it looks cool " as a legal defense that will work and convive the cop not to arrest them.;D
Just becuase the fans prefer it does not mean it should be allowed. With that "logic" we could have fights to death or feature contests with gladiators being eaten by lions.
The fans choice is NOT legal grounds to ingore the federal drug laws, c'mon.
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I hear this "arguement" made in favor of drugged bodybuilders a lot. It may be what a lot fans like, but it does NOTHING to deal with the legal issue. Just because some guys into cars like to drive fast and peal out , doesn't mean they can drive 100 mph with their car on fire down a US hwy , and use " because it looks cool " as a legal defense that will work and convive the cop not to arrest them.;D
Just becuase the fans prefer it does not mean it should be allowed. With that "logic" we could have fights to death or feature contests with gladiators being eaten by lions.
The fans choice is NOT legal grounds to ingore the federal drug laws, c'mon.
And? What do you expect the IFBB to do? What do you think they should do? Do you think they should institute WBF style drug testing and kill the sport? They won't because they know that would be the death of the sport.
Drug testing solves nothing. Random infrequent drug testing = a few athletes are burned for nothing. Wide scale drug testing a la WBF = the athletes go to NABBA or where ever they can continue unhindered.
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Thinking like BuildanAss is what is killing this sport. Congratulations.
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Thinking like BuildanAss is what is killing this sport. Congratulations.
Yes, IFBB Pro bodybuilding is dead and natural bodybuilding is thriving. Who is your pick to win the next natural pro card? That's what I though, no one gives a shit about drug free bodybuilding including you.
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I am 100% behind bodybuilding, but not chemical enhancement, etc.
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I am 100% behind bodybuilding, but not chemical enhancement, etc.
Just curious Vince, did you ever use steroids when you competed, or were you natural? If you used what makes you feel against them now?
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Vince is not natural and never claimed to be
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Thinking like BuildanAss is what is killing this sport. Congratulations.
Nobody is forcing you to follow this drug filled "sport".
If you dont like the IFBB then who cares. There are natural organisations but you have no interest in those anyway so stop being such a hypocrit.
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What sport is this?
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And? What do you expect the IFBB to do? What do you think they should do? Do you think they should institute WBF style drug testing and kill the sport? They won't because they know that would be the death of the sport.
Drug testing solves nothing. Random infrequent drug testing = a few athletes are burned for nothing. Wide scale drug testing a la WBF = the athletes go to NABBA or where ever they can continue unhindered.
I agree that the IFBB is the top bodybuilding organization with the best shows ans pros, etc. It always was and will be for some time, no question about it.
However, trung to defend a format,based on fan appeal, that essentially requires these same pros to BREAK THE LAW just to compete on a level playing field is ludicrous at best.
No pro athelte should be required to break the drug laws , just to compete fairly. Think about it, you actually have to risk breaking the drug laws to compete as a pro now. How is that position able to be dfended on the merits of the policy?tell me , please???
Once again, just because the fans want to see pros on illegal drugs is hardly grounds to defend the position.
I guess the next poor pro who ets busted can tell the judge : " Well your honor the fans demand to see freaks, so I had to juice to the gills."
The Judge will of course reply; " Oh I know, you are 100% correct and case dissmissed! :D
As fans we bear no legal burdens and get to see INCREDIBLE physiques on the IFBB stage.
The promoters get to sell more tickets and the IFBB remains the top BB sanction.
A handful of the top pros do ok, but the rest don't do very well, end up getting busted or with servere health troubles.
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Nobody is forcing you to follow this drug filled "sport".
If you dont like the IFBB then who cares. There are natural organisations but you have no interest in those anyway so stop being such a hypocrit.
I know this was NOt directed at me, but I wanted to weigh in on this pt.
I like the IFBB and have been a member of the NPC for several years now.I even judge regional NPC shows.
My big issue is not peresonal but out of conern for fair , effective rule enforcement:
Imagine if you will that you have good physique and some real pro potential.
You compete is a couple state level shows and win your wt class, despite being natural.
You have a good job in a legit profession but still have the passion and drive to go for being a pro .
In order to make this dream a reality, you know have to make a big choice.
Do you risk breaking the drug laws, use the required drugs or do you stay clean and forget about going pro.
You are willing to take the risks , but fear losing your job and career if you get busted.
All sports have some level of health risks at the elite levels. But c'mon, NOBODY should be REQUIRED to break the drug laws just to have fair shot at the big time!
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to answer this deeply philosophical question we must refer it to the ifbb athlete's rep, bob chick...
ok, i've asked the athlete's rep and here is his response:
the ifbb rules are only applicable to those that become undesirable at any given time for any given reason.
the law is only applicable to those that become undesirable at any given time for any given reason. people who use steroids are undesirable at this particular time and prostitutes provide a meaningful service to politicians.
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to answer this deeply philosophical question we must refer it to the ifbb athlete's rep, bob chick...
ok, i've asked the athlete's rep and here is his response:
the ifbb rules are only applicable to those that become undesirable at any given time for any given reason.
the law is only applicable to those that become undesirable at any given time for any given reason. people who use steroids are undesirable at this particular time and prostitutes provide a meaningful service to politicians.
That is a clever and funny post. Once again , on personal level, I believe that personal drug use or prostitution should be LEGAL and up to the individual to decide what to do. This is from a guy who doesn't even drink or smake anything and never had any interest in drug use or going to ho's. But, I don't think it should be me or the GOV that decides who does. I would applaud the IFBB if they were to get real and lobby congress to pass some positive steroid legislation. If they have no interest in that, then drug test to help the pro bodybuilders stay legal and healthy.
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I would applaud the IFBB if they were to get real and lobby congress to pass some positive steroid legislation. If they have no interest in that, then drug test to help the pro bodybuilders stay legal and healthy.
Lobbying for positive drug legislation would bring unwanted attention to the IFBB. And here we have an organization where Ben Weider has tried to get bodybuilding into the Olympics, has instituted drug testing in the World Champs, supposedly supports the WADA code, WADA which not only fights against doping in sports but pushes for stricter drug laws concerning steroids in society in general. The current IFBB admin isn't going to do a 180 on this issue.
Testing does nothing positive like I said before. If it's effective the athletes won't stay and fan interest will drop. I see nothing positive about drug testing for window dressing purposes where a few undesirable athletes get burned. Testing for health purposes? A lot of good that did in the case of diuretics. Kamali and other athletes are now worried what the unknown diuretic concoctions they took may have done to their health.
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If your a Pro at 300 pounds 10% BF, like Ronnie Coleman did on Jay Leno claim to be natural, Deny everything to your Deathbed.
No Drugs No ProBB
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How about retired pros like Nasser who juice to satisfy their own vanity? Isn't it insane to continue to tske gear even in reduced amounts after you have retired? Why would you continue to put your health at risk just for a the sake of your own ego? In nassers case he has had multiple surgical operations and health complications and will probably have more visits to the cutting table in the future. Its refreshing to hear people like Jay cutler remark that once the competing days are done they no longer want to hold on to their size just to satisfy some casual fan.
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Lobbying for positive drug legislation would bring unwanted attention to the IFBB. And here we have an organization where Ben Weider has tried to get bodybuilding into the Olympics, has instituted drug testing in the World Champs, supposedly supports the WADA code, WADA which not only fights against doping in sports but pushes for stricter drug laws concerning steroids in society in general. The current IFBB admin isn't going to do a 180 on this issue.Testing does nothing positive like I said before. If it's effective the athletes won't stay and fan interest will drop. I see nothing positive about drug testing for window dressing purposes where a few undesirable athletes get burned. Testing for health purposes? A lot of good that did in the case of diuretics. Kamali and other athletes are now worried what the unknown diuretic concoctions they took may have done to their health.
excellent point and i would only add to that by mentioning the very pertinent point that the directors of the ifbb have made their fortune on the back of these drug assisted bbers under the intentional delusion that their supplements created these bodies and insisting that said supplements were a credible and safe alternative (to anabolic drugs). their public stance has always been that anabolic steroids are harmful to health and are not necessary to be competitive.
to now lobby congress (where they indeed have powerful connections) would run contrary to their aforementioned status and risk opening up a can of worms that would harm the weider corporation.
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excellent point and i would only add to that by mentioning the very pertinent point that the directors of the ifbb have made their fortune on the back of these drug assisted bbers under the intentional delusion that their supplements created these bodies and insisting that said supplements were a credible and safe alternative (to anabolic drugs). their public stance has always been that anabolic steroids are harmful to health and are not necessary to be competitive.
to now lobby congress (where they indeed have powerful connections) would run contrary to their aforementioned status and risk opening up a can of worms that would harm the weider corporation.
Excellent post and thoughts here. This post really cuts to the heart of the matter.
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IFBB = all drugs
no one is going to pay to see swim meet, so by implication BBs have to break the law in order to attract attention
Howie..
if all things exist with in the universe, how can it expand? where is it expanding to?
why are you allocating brain power to muscle men in thongs, there are more complex issues to ponder
like how can we improve the effectiveness of the artificial pussy
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IFBB = all drugs
no one is going to pay to see swim meet, so by implication BBs have to break the law in order to attract attention
Howie..
if all things exist with in the universe, how can it expand? where is it expanding to?
The expansion of the universe is best prven by the red shifting ( visible star light shifting to the red end of light spectrum) , which means due to the Dopler shift, we are seeing lights waves get longer and thus shift in color from most stars and galaxys . Why this is? Hmmmmm.
Right now, the only way for a guy to have any chance for a career as a pro is to do the extra drugs , which in most cases breaks the federal drug laws.This policy is fine for us fans as we see great (enhanced) physiques on stage. Yes, I am MORE impressed and wowed by a drugged pro or national level physique.
It is fine for the IFBB and show promoters, etc. The only one that really gets hurt in the long run, is the hardcore, elite level bodybuilder. It is the individual bodybuilder that takes all the health and legal risks.
I simply want a firm policy in place that ends required drug use as ameans to make it in bodybuilding.
It is this POLICY that I am against, not bodybuilders doing what they have to, under the current system to win.
I also know that while we would see smaller guys on stage, they would still look a lot more impressive than swimmers. Drugs make a difference, but they don't perform miracles. If they did, we would have a lot more guys running around with top 10 Olympia level physiques....we don't. ;)
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In the beginning there were no drugs. Then various promoters thought up impressive names for bodybuilding contests and eventually Mr Universe was created. Somehow this was eclipsed by Mr Olympia which was suppose to be a higher contest. Winners of these contests transcended ordinary mortals and became Mr Somebody or other.
When guys coveted these titles and exposure in magazines it wasn't long before rival organizations were competing for competitors. In America there was the AAU holding Mr America and a few other shows. The IFBB took decades before their shows were considered the best. In the meantime, NABBA continued to stage the Mr Universe contest in England. Up until the late 1960s that was still the top show. The Mr Olympia eventually became the top contest for bodybuilders. The WBBG staged contests but these never had the status of the top IFBB shows.
When Bob Hoffman died the AAU shows lost their main supporter and eventually the AAU divorced itself from running bodybuilding shows. Something similar happened in Europe when Oscar Heidenstam died because NABBA lost some of its status.
What cannot be denied is that there is an ongoing competition for the competitors. The IFBB is worried that if they do drug testing that all the best competitors will go elsewhere. That is the bottom line and explains why no testing is done at the professional level. Joe and Ben staked their success on how well they knew bodybuilders. So what we find is what we deserve. The competitors have to do whatever is necessary to win a show and one thing no one can afford is be banned from competing. The other bodybuilders will not support independence because everyone moves up a notch when guys like Lee Priest get banned.
Today we have a sad state of affairs that even a Terminator cannot solve. Muscleheads have to use plenty of drugs, according to the many experts out there, to compete as professionals. How this remains true in a society where those drugs are considered illegal is a mystery. How a politician can promote a contest without having a clean show is something of back-room decisions.
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In the beginning there were no drugs. Then various promoters thought up impressive names for bodybuilding contests and eventually Mr Universe was created. Somehow this was eclipsed by Mr Olympia which was suppose to be a higher contest. Winners of these contests transcended ordinary mortals and became Mr Somebody or other.
When guys coveted these titles and exposure in magazines it wasn't long before rival organizations were competing for competitors. In America there was the AAU holding Mr America and a few other shows. The IFBB took decades before their shows were considered the best. In the meantime, NABBA continued to stage the Mr Universe contest in England. Up until the late 1960s that was still the top show. The Mr Olympia eventually became the top contest for bodybuilders. The WBBG staged contests but these never had the status of the top IFBB shows.
When Bob Hoffman died the AAU shows lost their main supporter and eventually the AAU divorced itself from running bodybuilding shows. Something similar happened in Europe when Oscar Heidenstam died because NABBA lost some of its status.
What cannot be denied is that there is an ongoing competition for the competitors. The IFBB is worried that if they do drug testing that all the best competitors will go elsewhere. That is the bottom line and explains why no testing is done at the professional level. Joe and Ben staked their success on how well they knew bodybuilders. So what we find is what we deserve. The competitors have to do whatever is necessary to win a show and one thing no one can afford is be banned from competing. The other bodybuilders will not support independence because everyone moves up a notch when guys like Lee Priest get banned.
Today we have a sad state of affairs that even a Terminator cannot solve. Muscleheads have to use plenty of drugs, according to the many experts out there, to compete as professionals. How this remains true in a society where those drugs are considered illegal is a mystery. How a politician can promote a contest without having a clean show is something of back-room decisions.
Good post here Vince,about the evolution of top bodybuilding shows.
After the dust clears , I too just shrug myshoulders and figure,it as follows: If the top pros and national level bodybuilders embrace the health and legal risks of extreme dug use, who am I to care?
While I sincerely believe it would be much better for all bodybuilders to be free from extreme drug use, I also know it is the bodybuilders that make that decision . I was one that decided it was not worth it . OVERALL,the cost/bennift ratios didn't add up for me.
I love bodybuilding, it is my favorite sport. I have huge respect and admiration for all the hard work and strict dieting it takes to put a world class physique on the stage. As a fan, I also get a kick out seeing the "enhanced physique".
Obviously a top bodybuilder on the juice looks more impressive than a natural one.
As a fan I admit, that I do get a "better show" under the current policy.
As a man concerned with the overall welfare of the bodybuilders I admire, I hate the health and legal risks they have to endure.