Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on May 14, 2008, 02:50:10 PM
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If very few of the actual pros use the supplements they endorse, why in hell does anyone buy them?
How does Muscletech get lifters to buy HALO? ::)
Why doesn't everyone just lift and eat ( take a couple basic supplements) or do the real juice like the pros?
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If a pro ever admitted to using OTC sups he would loose all street cred from his bros.
HTH 8)
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Supplements are good for people who want a boost but don't want to take illegal and harmful drugs. ::)
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Supplements are good for people who want a boost but don't want to take illegal and harmful drugs. ::)
Creatine and protein never built ANY muscle ::)
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protein never built ANY muscle ::)
:o :o
:D :D :D
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some of them work. the pre workout ones will at least make you more energized and give you a better pump
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If very few of the actual pros use the supplements they endorse, why in hell does anyone buy them?
How does Muscletech get lifters to buy HALO? ::)
Why doesn't everyone just lift and eat ( take a couple basic supplements) or do the real juice like the pros?
90% of the people who read this board or getting in a gym remotely resembling bodybuilder are on the real deal which is hormones
9% are playing with m1t and pro hormones and all kind of igfs none controled in america type of products liquid clen liquid this liquid that
the rest 1% dont train
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i get by on 120g max a day of protein
people neglect the importance of carbs.
after trianing today at around half 3 i never ate anything till half 6. am i fussed no. its cos the body does its job fine without us being pedantic
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90% of the people who read this board or getting in a gym remotely resembling bodybuilder are on the real deal which is hormones
9% are playing with m1t and pro hormones and all kind of igfs none controled in america type of products liquid clen liquid this liquid that
the rest 1% dont train
why do you make such sweeping statements
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why do you make such sweeping statements
because i have the priivelege to look into customer lists
in addition why hide the truth ,,a 5'9 dotn walk around at 10% 230 unless he got hormone going in the blood at higher levels than average male PERIOD
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yes but how many 5'9 230lb guys at 10% do claim to be natural? seriously i cant think of any on this board.
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support the sport
buy supplements
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support the sport
buy supplements
support my nuts.
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because i have the priivelege to look into customer lists
in addition why hide the truth ,,a 5'9 dotn walk around at 10% 230 unless he got hormone going in the blood at higher levels than average male PERIOD
I know, anybody BIGGER than YOU has go to be juiced to the gills ::)
I have meet plenty of guys, just like you over the years and they all have the same lame excuse as to why they are NOT a good bodybuilder....drugs.
Ok, on a serious note, you act like you have all these "customer lists" and know all about what drugs go where and to whom,etc. Maybe you do , maybe you don't ???
Unless you post who you really are and post some verified facts, you will remain another clever guy with a cool internet name,and some interesting story that is about it.
Why do I care or get offended by what you post?
It gives everyone the impression they have to use a bunch of drugs, just to compete ina local or state show.
I have seen natural and/ or low dose guys and gals do very well in various regional contests.
I would love to see the end of extreme and ILLEGAL drug use in bodybuilding. I say this because I sincerely believe bodybuilders can look good without a boatload of drugs. I think bodybuilding is the best sport and I see a lot of potential for it. Get rid of the crazy drug regimes and worship of freakish size and you have the ideal healthy sport.
Granted some of what you say may be true for the hardcore world and elite pros.I admit you can't compete in the IFBB pros without a fair amount of sauce. You slander guys like Skip LaCour who has passed all kinds of drug tests.
What is he guilty of? he has an impressive physique and so he must be juiced? Forget his endless record of passed drug tests and the facts, just go with the rumors :-\
It is easy to post stuff that you can make up without any real way to verify and then speak in some technical jargon and get some to buy your "BS"...sorry GH15, I don't.
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gh15 is the type of guy who goes "thats not impressive,,,friend for u a gear user, ive seen more better naturals in any gym i went" after you admit to using some, but for a natural "your not natural friend,,,horminized to the max dont lie to us here, willing to bet gh also bit of insulin now n again" ;D
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i get by on 120g max a day of protein
people neglect the importance of carbs.
after trianing today at around half 3 i never ate anything till half 6. am i fussed no. its cos the body does its job fine without us being pedantic
good point, why only 120g??
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If very few of the actual pros use the supplements they endorse, why in hell does anyone buy them?
How does Muscletech get lifters to buy HALO? ::)
Why doesn't everyone just lift and eat ( take a couple basic supplements) or do the real juice like the pros?
because people dont know that pros disregard supplements, they just assume they take the supplements along with the drugs.
Also. with all the marketing today for supplements (Flex magazine's every second page is a supplement advertisement) they give audiences the impression that muscletech products are more beneficial to the body than food.
The description of these products are grossly over the top, so pedantic that someone would think its alien technology. They promise the world but most of the time they don't deliver.
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I know, anybody BIGGER than YOU has go to be juiced to the gills ::)
I have meet plenty of guys, just like you over the years and they all have the same lame excuse as to why they are NOT a good bodybuilder....drugs.
Ok, on a serious note, you act like you have all these "customer lists" and know all about what drugs go where and to whom,etc. Maybe you do , maybe you don't ???
Unless you post who you really are and post some verified facts, you will remain another clever guy with a cool internet name,and some interesting story that is about it.
Why do I care or get offended by what you post?
It gives everyone the impression they have to use a bunch of drugs, just to compete ina local or state show.
I have seen natural and/ or low dose guys and gals do very well in various regional contests.
I would love to see the end of extreme and ILLEGAL drug use in bodybuilding. I say this because I sincerely believe bodybuilders can look good without a boatload of drugs. I think bodybuilding is the best sport and I see a lot of potential for it. Get rid of the crazy drug regimes and worship of freakish size and you have the ideal healthy sport.
Granted some of what you say may be true for the hardcore world and elite pros.I admit you can't compete in the IFBB pros without a fair amount of sauce. You slander guys like Skip LaCour who has passed all kinds of drug tests.
What is he guilty of? he has an impressive physique and so he must be juiced? Forget his endless record of passed drug tests and the facts, just go with the rumors :-\
It is easy to post stuff that you can make up without any real way to verify and then speak in some technical jargon and get some to buy your "BS"...sorry GH15, I don't.
first of all friend NO ONE but few professionals and powerlifters is bigger than gh15,,im 2 howies but not as fat as one howie if you get what im saying
now ,,this has nothign to do with gh15,,it has to do with facts,,the fact that you were or are npc judge just make npc look horrid ,,you ut bad light on the judging honesty by saying you know this and that compete naturally ,,
now,,what gh15 is saying to you is that you know WELL that you been into the hormones and so called drugs in the 1980s when no one knew a from b and now days the guys at your nothing to write home about level from the 80s use double and tripe those doses and more products,,
howie, who are you fooling here? yourself ? defenitely not because you know very well that you would never step on stage if did grow to begin with on hormones after intial growth stopped past first 3 years in gym
gh15 doesnt say that professional only use hormones,,gh15 is saying that EVERY ONE THAT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING USES HORMONES AND THAT MEANS THE GYM RAT WITH THE SKINNY LEGS AND AWESOME UPPER BODY ,,,THE BLACK GUY WITH DETAILED BIG ARMS AND NO CHEST THAT BEEN IN GYM FOR 5 YEARS AND ALWAYS LOOK THE SAME YET MAINTAIN BIG SIZE AND LOW BODYFAT% BUT DOESNT CARE MUCH FOR ANYTHING DETAILED THUS REACHED PLATUE EVEN ON HORMONES,,THE GIRL THAT WALKED AROUND WITH FAKE TANNING BAD AND NAILS DONE AND SHOW TIGHT MIDSECTION AND TONED ARMS IN HER LATE MID 30S,,,THE GIRLS WHO NEEVR WANNA GET OLD AND IS SINGLE FOREVER AND HAS PSYCOLOGICAL PROBLEMS AND USE GH GIVEN TO HER BY A FRIEND THAT GET IT FROM HIS FRIEND THAT IS AN AIDS PACIENT BECAUSE HE WANNA GET INTO HER PANTIES AND INDEED GET THERE etc etc
if you sit and see guys as npc judge and you tell me they are natural on regional shows? why are you lieing to those kids here? what benefit does it give to you to even say this rubbish? i understand if you go judge local countryclub competition or county competition and see 2-3 guys natural that you place in 3rd place out of 5 competitors....they can be naturals and thus never win even the country club competition BUT the lies you give here about regional is crazy misleading in its nature
hormones to the bodybuilder ESPECIALLY COMPETETIVE AT ALL LEVELS..is like water for the human body,,the smallest guys are usually the ones who juice as much as the biggest guys ...they just cant grow so they polish their size wether its due to height or just average rsponse they polish whatever god gave them with the hormone help
with out hormones ...milos doesnt have a business,,with out hormones luke wood would never make it to win a local competition he would probably sit in austalian gym winning mr aussi gym something among the 100 members,,with out hormones ben johnson wouldnt break world record in 1988,,with out hormones armstrong wouldnt win tour de france he was fuckin finished and had cancer the guy was on so much epo and still is american hero by lieing exactly with out hormones barry would still be 160lb skinny black boy,,with out hormones alex a would never get to be chizeled and look like atonomy chart,,with out hormones tropopin would sit home eating nachos and woulnt step on stage,,with out hormones that moron kid lunch? whatever his name is wouldnt walk around 280lb he would be sitting at 220 in a good day at 18-20%,,with out hormones there would be a lot less people in the gym that are actually bodybuild ..it will be similar to now days in america when gym population is down big time when it comes to bodybuilder because we closed china to a degree,,with out hormones you boards wouldnt have over 15 thousand member and you are talking here about multiple boards,,with out hormones you wouldnt walk around saying this guy or that guy look great and actually go to see him flex,,with out hormones you would be a walking water fountain with midsection at 40 inches due to creatine use that doesnt do shit no matter what scammers tell you ,,with out hormones you would still think protein powder does something to you anabolically while in reality if any poweder does anything to yoru physiqe it has hormones in it ..very easy to put some dianabol poweder especially dirty grades from china that cost pennys and have very low dose of hormone but still work minimally to give beter results than any natural product there is,,with out hormones you wouldnt have the problems hrt clinic have in america because so many guys and girls wanna join them for hrt,,with out hormones guys like phil heath would be nothing comparing to the meso england black guy from this board that i belive eis truly natural,,with out hormones you would have 20 people in bodybuilding show all family members insted of the 100s or 1000s you got now,,,with out hormones you wouldnt be able to present dry sliced physiqes ,,seperation would not be noticable because when you done diet you wouldnt have much muscle left!,with out hormones guys wouldnt be able to walk around saying they are 250lb at 7% ...
gh15 just come to clarify reality and you howie is part of generation where this reality is hard to tell to because for you natural and hormonized is in a way the same thing...what is clen...what is couple pills ...what is low doses...oh i try this igf it is legal ...oh this is just m1t...its hard to actually talk sense to someone that belong in generation that got the shaft closed on them and end of 80s beggining of 90s got punishment and got hormones undeer control in their homeland,,,
you have good intentions but you dont understand that the hormone use is part HUGE part of bodybuilding,,natural guys never win shows,,they never look thick and ripped,,they always look like their girlfriend is bigger than them,,also this idea that natural means oen year off drugs is ridicoulous because inorder to be natural you shoudl never be on drugs period,,never start them to begin with,,
it got to a point today that i see bodybuilders coming to me saying they are natural or clean because their shipment got delayed and they been off for 3 weeks...it got to be very bad and i blame your generation for the creation of generation nothingess attitue twars bodybuilding
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If very few of the actual pros use the supplements they endorse, why in hell does anyone buy them?
Smart people don't.
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smart people use supplements
in the future, it will replace real food
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At least GH15 sells stuff that works unlike so much of the SHIT Pros endorse.FFS these clowns will say and do anything for sponsorship.They are starving they make very little Money.So why believe anything they say????Just ask Milos his training clients has slowed to Nil because he is now selling his own snake oil.Fukin Wake Up.oh and "HARDEN THE FUK UP"
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smart people use supplements
in the future, it will replace real food
coffee with chocolate syrup
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Get rid of the crazy drug regimes and worship of freakish size and you have the ideal healthy sport.
Never gonna happen. There will be more and more drugs, hopefully better drugs. There's never going to be less chemicals in bodybuilding. Can't turn back the clock.
I have seen natural and/ or low dose guys and gals do very well in various regional contests.
I would love to see the end of extreme and ILLEGAL drug use in bodybuilding. I say this because I sincerely believe bodybuilders can look good without a boatload of drugs.
You are lying to yourself. You admitted that you enjoy the freak factor as much as the next fan.
If you really mean what you say only go to natural shows where the guys are smaller. Boycott the IFBB since you HATE extreme drug use. Put your money where your mouth is. But I bet you aren't that exited about Layne Norton's next contest.
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You are lying to yourself. You admitted that you enjoy the freak factor as much as the next fan.
If you really mean what you say only go to natural shows where the guys are smaller. Boycott the IFBB since you HATE extreme drug use. Put your money where your mouth is. But I bet you aren't that exited about Layne Norton's next contest.
hahah exactly---this fool loves teh IFBB and even gave props to DA the other day----and in the next post he rants against drugs ???
I dont understand
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It is the opposite i think...Pros on the sauce use more legal supplements then the average joe...I have heard many times that steroids increase the body's response to protein in using it for muscle growth...So it would make sense to use as much supplementation protein wise then someone off the sauce...
Someone off the sauce using the same supplements as a pro is more or less wasting money....
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It is the opposite i think...Pros on the sauce use more legal supplements then the average joe...I have heard many times that steroids increase the body's response to protein in using it for muscle growth...So it would make sense to use as much supplementation protein wise then someone off the sauce...
Someone off the sauce using the same supplements as a pro is more or less wasting money....
Pretty good analysis. For the most part this is the case theoretically but every single IFBB Pro I ever spoke to, spent time with and been around say the same thing. They never use supplements and usually 9 out of 10 times haven't consumed a single protein shake in years.
The supplement industry thrives on the people interested in general health and making up deficiencies through supplementation and the SPORTS supplementation which bank of the uninformed, unintelligent, inexperienced newbie.
Only people from age 16-22 use MuscleTech, which is a huge number of newbs getting into the sport to get laid.
The TWINK up above who said that people who use supplements do so to "get that edge" because they don't want to resort to using something illegal is downright gullibility and falsehood.
The only supplements that actually did anything are now banned in the U.S. (1-test products and ephedra).
The moral of the story is that these companies know how enthusiastic young guys are into the idea of getting more pussy so they promise a better more attractive and powerful body next to their fat disgusting beer swollen friend they hire Johnny IFBB Pro to "pretend" that the product is amazing.
Cutler using HALO or Nitrotech or Adaplon-AnatorP70creakicTech is as believable as the Tooth Fairy.
When Cutler comes to Chicago to guest pose I know who he stays with and that person confirms he doesn't use a single supplement. He eats a hell of a lot of food that's for damn sure.
I pray the newbs reading this learns something.
Thanks, Musclephone!
Thanks, Howie.
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Pretty good analysis. For the most part this is the case theoretically but every single IFBB Pro I ever spoke to, spent time with and been around say the same thing. They never use supplements and usually 9 out of 10 times haven't consumed a single protein shake in years.
The supplement industry thrives on the people interested in general health and making up deficiencies through supplementation and the SPORTS supplementation which bank of the uninformed, unintelligent, inexperienced newbie.
Only people from age 16-22 use MuscleTech, which is a huge number of newbs getting into the sport to get laid.
The TWINK up above who said that people who use supplements do so to "get that edge" because they don't want to resort to using something illegal is downright gullibility and falsehood.
The only supplements that actually did anything are now banned in the U.S. (1-test products and ephedra).
The moral of the story is that these companies know how enthusiastic young guys are into the idea of getting more pussy so they promise a better more attractive and powerful body next to their fat disgusting beer swollen friend they hire Johnny IFBB Pro to "pretend" that the product is amazing.
Cutler using HALO or Nitrotech or Adaplon-AnatorP70creakicTech is as believable as the Tooth Fairy.
When Cutler comes to Chicago to guest pose I know who he stays with and that person confirms he doesn't use a single supplement. He eats a hell of a lot of food that's for damn sure.
I pray the newbs reading this learns something.
Thanks, Musclephone!
Thanks, Howie.
ok mr. beacon of truth... LOL.. everybodys an expert...hahaha uncle fester with swimmer physique..hahaha
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ok mr. beacon of truth... LOL.. everybodys an expert...hahaha uncle fester with swimmer physique..hahaha
Dude. Now I'm gonna be up all night now, man. Damnit. Thanks...thanks, man. I appreciate that.
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Dude. Now I'm gonna be up all night now, man. Damnit. Thanks...thanks, man. I appreciate that.
hahahahah ;D ;D ok that was good, realy ... props on that. normally your wigger shit gets old but that was funnny props :D
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Much more enjoyable to get the same amount of protein out of a steak, then a protein shake....The pros can afford all that good food, and protein shakes are for the poor....Sounds not so outlandish to me....The pros also have metabolisms of that of a race horse, so all that good food goes to feed muscle growth...
Lets say they eat every two or three hours, and each meal consists of steak, chicken, or fish....That is a hell of a lot of protein in one day...In the mags they say some of those meals are protein shakes...Substitute instead that meal with something good to eat with lots of protein....
What does the typical guy who does not lift or exercise, get in for protein a day you think? I would say under 50 grams, and if they eat only one or two meals, then put that around 30 grams....Pros and amateurs get over a 100 grams in a day...I would be in some fantasy world if i could eat that much food without getting fat....
If it is true that steroids increase metabolism dramatically, then i guess if i was on the sauce it might be a good idea to eat that much....
Another thing to ponder on...I dont think Trey Brewer got as fat as he was on protein shakes...If you watch some of his older videos, he says he LOVES to eat...Imagine how many chicken breasts, steaks, he takes in, in a day...Jay Cutler even gets up at two or so in the morning to eat, if that is indeed true...
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Aplodan is just creatine and ALA and it activates dormant muscle fibers. ::)
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Also, from my own experience, i have made a lot more strenght and size gains from eating food, then all the protein shakes in the world...Makes me wonder if what they say is in those powders, is really in there....
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Also, from my own experience, i have made a lot more strenght and size gains from eating food, then all the protein shakes in the world...Makes me wonder if what they say is in those powders, is really in there....
Buy some of those liquid eggs whites Bob pimps... at least you know it's real food.
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Much more enjoyable to get the same amount of protein out of a steak, then a protein shake....The pros can afford all that good food, and protein shakes are for the poor....Sounds not so outlandish to me....The pros also have metabolisms of that of a race horse, so all that good food goes to feed muscle growth...
Lets say they eat every two or three hours, and each meal consists of steak, chicken, or fish....That is a hell of a lot of protein in one day...In the mags they say some of those meals are protein shakes...Substitute instead that meal with something good to eat with lots of protein....
What does the typical guy who does not lift or exercise, get in for protein a day you think? I would say under 50 grams, and if they eat only one or two meals, then put that around 30 grams....Pros and amateurs get over a 100 grams in a day...I would be in some fantasy world if i could eat that much food without getting fat....
If it is true that steroids increase metabolism dramatically, then i guess if i was on the sauce it might be a good idea to eat that much....
Another thing to ponder on...I dont think Trey Brewer got as fat as he was on protein shakes...If you watch some of his older videos, he says he LOVES to eat...Imagine how many chicken breasts, steaks, he takes in, in a day...Jay Cutler even gets up at two or so in the morning to eat, if that is indeed true...
Exactly. Protein supplements are fun and kind of convenient but they are only for if you absolutely, positively cannot get to real solid food. It's the 'back of the bus' option of food.
EVERY IFBB Pro I know have zero clue what the fuck 'NoXPlode' or BrandX nitrousN.O.Superduperpla sma Pump does as they never ever once ever even bothered using it.
There are TWO distinct difference between supplement users and those who do NOT use supplements and rely on food. HUGE difference.
Think about it.
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Much more enjoyable to get the same amount of protein out of a steak, then a protein shake....The pros can afford all that good food, and protein shakes are for the poor....Sounds not so outlandish to me....The pros also have metabolisms of that of a race horse, so all that good food goes to feed muscle growth...
Lets say they eat every two or three hours, and each meal consists of steak, chicken, or fish....That is a hell of a lot of protein in one day...In the mags they say some of those meals are protein shakes...Substitute instead that meal with something good to eat with lots of protein....
What does the typical guy who does not lift or exercise, get in for protein a day you think? I would say under 50 grams, and if they eat only one or two meals, then put that around 30 grams....Pros and amateurs get over a 100 grams in a day...I would be in some fantasy world if i could eat that much food without getting fat....
If it is true that steroids increase metabolism dramatically, then i guess if i was on the sauce it might be a good idea to eat that much....
Another thing to ponder on...I dont think Trey Brewer got as fat as he was on protein shakes...If you watch some of his older videos, he says he LOVES to eat...Imagine how many chicken breasts, steaks, he takes in, in a day...Jay Cutler even gets up at two or so in the morning to eat, if that is indeed true...
OKAY HERES SOMETHING FOR YOU TO CONSIDER
wow bro you certainly SOUND like you know what your talking about but DAMN.. are you retarded? LOL
first off you can eat all the protein you want its not gonna make you fat. you might store some of wha your body aabsorbs as fat, but a netfat gain? hell no. ever hear of thermic effect of feeding? you know what the conversion ratio of protein to carbs is?
i dont care if your an amatuuer bodybuilder totally natural at 160 with endo tendencies... eat all the fucking solid protein you can ! like you said, the average guys eats FAR TOO LITTLE protien. yo ever actually eat 400 grams of solid protein in one day? or for several days in a row? that is a shit load of food brother!
you say trey didnt get fat on prottein shakes? LOL... like protein shakes would have less of a tendency to make you fat that whole food. WHEY IS PREDIGESTED..that huge thermic effect of that protein gives you..GONE with protein shakes... and you drink 50 grams protein, *whey*... those 50 grams are ALL in your system AT ONCE.. your gonna store some protein as fat thats when it owuld be.. not when youve got about 10 grams in there at once .. a rate much mroe closely tied to how whople food protein slowly digests
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OKAY HERES SOMETHING FOR YOU TO CONSIDER
wow bro you certainly SOUND like you know what your talking about but DAMN.. are you retarded? LOL
first off you can eat all the protein you want its not gonna make you fat. you might store some of wha your body aabsorbs as fat, but a netfat gain? hell no. ever hear of thermic effect of feeding? you know what the conversion ratio of protein to carbs is?
i dont care if your an amatuuer bodybuilder totally natural at 160 with endo tendencies... eat all the fucking solid protein you can ! like you said, the average guys eats FAR TOO LITTLE protien. yo ever actually eat 400 grams of solid protein in one day? or for several days in a row? that is a shit load of food brother!
you say trey didnt get fat on prottein shakes? LOL... like protein shakes would have less of a tendency to make you fat that whole food. WHEY IS PREDIGESTED..that huge thermic effect of that protein gives you..GONE with protein shakes... and you drink 50 grams protein, *whey*... those 50 grams are ALL in your system AT ONCE.. your gonna store some protein as fat thats when it owuld be.. not when youve got about 10 grams in there at once .. a rate much mroe closely tied to how whople food protein slowly digests
mmhmm
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,,with out hormones tropopin would sit home eating nachos and woulnt step on stage,,with out hormones that moron kid lunch? whatever his name is wouldnt walk around 280lb he would be sitting at 220 in a good day at 18-20%,,
Gh15 I dont think you should be stating matter of fact statements about people just because it suits your argument. Troponin was just out here in Cali with me a short time ago. His last show was the 2007 USA in July and off.....its now May 2008. Coming up on a year now clean as a whistle but the guy can walk around 260-270 any day of the week with veins up and down his arms and as big as a house. I know many a huge amateur that is 300 on and 265-275 off. Im sorry that Getbig as a whole only can believe that steroids either make or break a bodybuilder but its not true. Maybe for the guys who are hi rep blood pumping bodybuilders who dont put their time in lifting back breaking heavy weights in their training.....those guys disengrate. But not the heavy slag lifting guys who built that thickness through poundages lifted over the years. Do you honestly think that people like Jay Cutler and Victor Richards and other mesomorphic bodybuilders are going to go from a thick offseason 300 pounds down to a paltry 215lbs if they kept everything else the same (heavy lifting, eating etc) and only removed hormonal help? Not a chance in hell. This board uses Tom Prince as its calling card for this very argument....a guy on kidney dialysis who HAS to reduce his bodyweight dramatically or whats the other choice? Or he dies. Hmmm I would say thats a good enough reason to give up all lifting and eating like a bodybuilder and reduce your bodyweight to 185lbs or so. But take a normal mesomorphic beast (and especially one who has been at a certain muscular size and bodyweight for a long long time with chemical help*****and therein is the key to all this) and remove only the chemical help and you will see that person lose some weight and look smoother but in no way disenegrate (unless thats the choice they themselves decide to make)
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90% of the people who read this board or getting in a gym remotely resembling bodybuilder are on the real deal which is hormones
9% are playing with m1t and pro hormones and all kind of igfs none controled in america type of products liquid clen liquid this liquid that
the rest 1% dont train
Speak for yourself.....
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Funny how Arnold always shrunk up bigtime after some of his later shows and he by his own words never stopped lifting even after he retired.
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Funny how Arnold always shrunk up bigtime after some of his later shows and he by his own words never stopped lifting even after he retired.
arnold lifted pussy ass weights and did little-girl pump sets ,,,, we must then assume, IF we listen to dante
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arnold lifted pussy ass weights and did little-girl pump sets ,,,, we must then assume, IF we listen to dante
Yeah and he was most certainly a genetic freak if there ever was one wouldn't you agree? Now, there are some guys walking around today with more muscle with nowhere near the physique that Arnold had. Wonder why? ::)
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Pretty good analysis. For the most part this is the case theoretically but every single IFBB Pro I ever spoke to, spent time with and been around say the same thing. They never use supplements and usually 9 out of 10 times haven't consumed a single protein shake in years.
The supplement industry thrives on the people interested in general health and making up deficiencies through supplementation and the SPORTS supplementation which bank of the uninformed, unintelligent, inexperienced newbie.
Only people from age 16-22 use MuscleTech, which is a huge number of newbs getting into the sport to get laid.
The TWINK up above who said that people who use supplements do so to "get that edge" because they don't want to resort to using something illegal is downright gullibility and falsehood.
The only supplements that actually did anything are now banned in the U.S. (1-test products and ephedra).
The moral of the story is that these companies know how enthusiastic young guys are into the idea of getting more pussy so they promise a better more attractive and powerful body next to their fat disgusting beer swollen friend they hire Johnny IFBB Pro to "pretend" that the product is amazing.
Cutler using HALO or Nitrotech or Adaplon-AnatorP70creakicTech is as believable as the Tooth Fairy.
When Cutler comes to Chicago to guest pose I know who he stays with and that person confirms he doesn't use a single supplement. He eats a hell of a lot of food that's for damn sure.
I pray the newbs reading this learns something.
Thanks, Musclephone!
Thanks, Howie.
Thanks for your honesty, my brother.
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Yeah and he was most certainly a genetic freak if there ever was one wouldn't you agree? Now, there are some guys walking around today with more muscle with nowhere near the physique that Arnold had. Wonder why? ::)
i thought it was cuz they trained h.i.t. and stretched afterwards? ???
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i thought it was cuz they trained h.i.t. and stretched afterwards? ???
or that too. ;)
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well i guess if you two can only walk around at 215 clean after 10-20 years of lifting (which is pretty much what you are saying to me) then it sucks to be you.
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well i guess if you two can only walk around at 215 clean after 10-20 years of lifting (which is pretty much what you are saying to me) then it sucks to be you.
Must suck to be Arnold which is exactly what he weighed in the offseason and early into his retirement.
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well i guess if you two can only walk around at 215 clean after 10-20 years of lifting (which is pretty much what you are saying to me) then it sucks to be you.
Unless you're over 6', why would you want to weigh more than that (assuming low bodyfat, a novel concept for you)?
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Troponin was just out here in Cali with me a short time ago. His last show was the 2007 USA in July and off.....its now May 2008. Coming up on a year now clean as a whistle but the guy can walk around 260-270 any day of the week with veins up and down his arms and as big as a house.
What kind of clean is he? The type of clean you used to talk about... only using a bit of test i.e. "cruising"? Maybe a little insulin and megadoses of growth like Jay does, according to rumors, when he takes a couple of weeks off steroids? :D
Please stop the BS Dante :)
Do you honestly think that people like Jay Cutler and Victor Richards and other mesomorphic bodybuilders are going to go from a thick offseason 300 pounds down to a paltry 215lbs if they kept everything else the same (heavy lifting, eating etc) and only removed hormonal help?
Well Vic Richards said he was clean and not even training when he did the famous posedown at FIBO. I bet you believe that too. :D
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What kind of clean is he? The type of clean you used to talk about... only using a bit of test i.e. "cruising"? Maybe a little insulin and megadoses of growth like Jay does, according to rumors, when he takes a couple of weeks off steroids? :D
Please stop the BS Dante :)
Just the kind of clean.... that he was talking about trying to find the most rigorously tested natural show and doing it.
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Protein shakes and supplements are bullshit, a few years ago I stopped taking all supplements and shakes and just concentrating on eating lots of good food, I actually made better gains then any other years where I was having 2-3 shakes a day on top of my meals. Bunch of scammer bullshit.
There is no substitute for good food (and/or good gear ;)
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Just the kind of clean.... that he was talking about trying to find the most rigorously tested natural show and doing it.
Sorry bro, but that means NOTHING. IGF, boat loads of insulin some testosterone, Gh among other things will keep an ex steroid user a VERY large man.
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Sorry bro, but that means NOTHING. IGF, boat loads of insulin some testosterone, Gh among other things will keep an ex steroid user a VERY large man.
Bahh! insulin alone will keep any lifter huge!
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Bahh! insulin alone will keep any lifter huge!
Can't argue with that. What are your thoughts on Equipoise? ;D
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Can one usually keep gains made from shooting insulin if they discontinue shooting insulin?
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Can't argue with that. What are your thoughts on Equipoise? ;D
My one true love... lol
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Can one usually keep gains made from shooting insulin if they discontinue shooting insulin?
Yeah for about a week or two.
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My one true love... lol
I got news for you, your one true love is cheating on you..................... .with me. ;D
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Sorry bro, but that means NOTHING. IGF, boat loads of insulin some testosterone, Gh among other things will keep an ex steroid user a VERY large man.
already discussed that there would be a bunch of Getbig non believers.
So the solution is
Full blood work done with date before and after show and shown to everyone in a PDF format showing normal (or subnormal testosterone, and IGF levels)....with a show that does both blood testing and a lie detector test.
Slin? Have you ever been able to keep someones fully loaded size on precontest with slin alone? Ive never seen it done ever, maybe you have.
Regardless that he is a man of his word/principle. Its kind of a cant win thing anyway....my advice to him is "Why bother? Someone will come up with some kind of conspiracy theory"
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anyway....my advice to him is "Why bother? Someone will come up with some kind of conspiracy theory"
I'm a "why not"? kind of guy myself. It shouldn't be about other people, it should be about what he wants to do, put it out there and let others see it, if they believe, cool ,if not, who cares? He knows the truth and he has to live with it.
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already discussed that there would be a bunch of Getbig non believers.
So the solution is
Full blood work done with date before and after show and shown to everyone in a PDF format showing normal (or subnormal testosterone, and IGF levels)....with a show that does both blood testing and a lie detector test.
Slin? Have you ever been able to keep someones fully loaded size on precontest with slin alone? Ive never seen it done ever, maybe you have.
Regardless that he is a man of his word/principle. Its kind of a cant win thing anyway....my advice to him is "Why bother? Someone will come up with some kind of conspiracy theory"
Well I think that it is a no win situation IF he is doing it just for the sole reason to try and prove something to anyone but himself.
To answer your other questions.
IGF is a very short life in the blood so a blood test would prove nothing.
I never claimed that slin alone would be able keep someone contest huge although you can stay very full.
As far as test levels go you do not need to use test to get big.
Lie detector tests are beat all the time. I personally know a guy who competed this year in a drug tested show that took a polygraph and he passed.
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" I just want to eat my cake" ;D
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" I just want to eat my cake" ;D
$20 bucks will buy a huge piece of cake. ;D
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I tend to agree with DC as I posted in another thread. My brother always tells me when he's on and when he's off. He's about 275 on and about 260 off at 6'1 at similar BF levels.
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If very few of the actual pros use the supplements they endorse, why in hell does anyone buy them?
How does Muscletech get lifters to buy HALO? ::)
Why doesn't everyone just lift and eat ( take a couple basic supplements) or do the real juice like the pros?
I'm on the Higher Power arsenal right now!
http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/higherpowerm3muscleboundreview.html
Higher Power Nutrition is bodybuilding.com's house brand and has so far proven to me to be very cost effective and worthwhile.
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It's funny that the bigger guys get thru the use of drugs, the bigger people tend to believe you can be as as natural. Back in the 80's the biggest pros never even reached 260 in the offseason let alone on stage. Now we have average gym rats claiming that they are "off" and weighing 260 plus. ::)
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I tend to agree with DC as I posted in another thread. My brother always tells me when he's on and when he's off. He's about 275 on and about 260 off at 6'1 at similar BF levels.
Why didnt you get his genetics to? ???
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It's funny that the bigger guys get thru the use of drugs, the bigger people tend to believe you can be as as natural. Back in the 80's the biggest pros never even reached 260 in the offseason let alone on stage. Now we have average gym rats claiming that they are "off" and weighing 260 plus. ::)
You are comparing lifetime naturals with people who sauce themselves up to supra levels of muscle mass.
Are you saying it is your opinion that if there were 2 six foot twins and one was lifetime natural and achieved 225 in reasonably good shape and one jacked himself up full tilt and went to 305lbs....that the second one when he got off (with proper and probably lengthy PCT) is going to fall back to the 225lbs as his lifetime natural brother is? He is going to lose 80lbs? I absolutely 100% disagree with that. i dont care how you get there (cheating, saucing, GH'ing, abuse etc)....once you go past those natural set points with "help", you are past them regardless.....and you will never fall back to square one (unless you are royally screwed up endo. test wise). You saw Dave P get out of jail after 6 months (246lbs or so)....do you think he would look like that if he was lifetime natural? And he was in there under harsh conditions bodybuilding wise (tuna, no lifting facilities etc)...he didnt exactly go back to long distance runner Dave P.
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You are comparing lifetime naturals with people who sauce themselves up to supra levels of muscle mass.
Are you saying it is your opinion that if there were 2 six foot twins and one was lifetime natural and achieved 225 in reasonably good shape and one jacked himself up full tilt and went to 305lbs....that the second one when he got off (with proper and probably lengthy PCT) is going to fall back to the 225lbs as his lifetime natural brother is? He is going to lose 80lbs? I absolutely 100% disagree with that. i dont care how you get there (cheating, saucing, GH'ing, abuse etc)....once you go past those natural set points with "help", you are past them regardless.....and you will never fall back to square one (unless you are royally screwed up endo. test wise). You saw Dave P get out of jail after 6 months (246lbs or so)....do you think he would look like that if he was lifetime natural? And he was in there under harsh conditions bodybuilding wise (tuna, no lifting facilities etc)...he didnt exactly go back to long distance runner Dave P.
I am not confusing anything. To think that the bigger one gets with drugs the bigger they will stay naturally is absurd!!!!
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Someone put up the Dave P photo of him getting out of prison after 6 months with eating tuna and only able to do pushups/dips and compare it to the picture of him before he started lifting (running photo).
According to Disgusted he should look pretty similiar because he would go right down to his natural status starting point.
Let me know how similiar he looks in those two photo's muscularly.
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Someone put up the Dave P photo of him getting out of prison after 6 months with eating tuna and only able to do pushups/dips and compare it to the picture of him before he started lifting (running photo).
According to Disgusted he should look pretty similiar because he would go right down to his natural status starting point.
Let me know how similiar he looks in those two photo's muscularly.
I've seen the pic so no need. Dave was only in for 4 months if I recall correctly. He did eat lots of tuna. He made friends with a few guards and probabley got some extra food too. The fact that he had no weights was not even a big deal since there are a ton of different bodyweight exercises that he could do in his cell and get a hell of a pump and that would provide enough resistance for him to keep his muscles from shrinking in the same manner as if he had quit exercising altogether.
The fact that Dave was VERY lean in the pic you mention made him look a lot bigger than he really was. Dave is NO WHERE NEAR as big as he used to be years ago. He is obviously not jacked like he used to be.
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Here you go. I still fail to see your point.
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It's funny that the bigger guys get thru the use of drugs, the bigger people tend to believe you can be as as natural. Back in the 80's the biggest pros never even reached 260 in the offseason let alone on stage. Now we have average gym rats claiming that they are "off" and weighing 260 plus. ::)
Thank you! ::)
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Pretty good analysis. For the most part this is the case theoretically but every single IFBB Pro I ever spoke to, spent time with and been around say the same thing. They never use supplements and usually 9 out of 10 times haven't consumed a single protein shake in years.
The supplement industry thrives on the people interested in general health and making up deficiencies through supplementation and the SPORTS supplementation which bank of the uninformed, unintelligent, inexperienced newbie.
Only people from age 16-22 use MuscleTech, which is a huge number of newbs getting into the sport to get laid.
The TWINK up above who said that people who use supplements do so to "get that edge" because they don't want to resort to using something illegal is downright gullibility and falsehood.
The only supplements that actually did anything are now banned in the U.S. (1-test products and ephedra).
The moral of the story is that these companies know how enthusiastic young guys are into the idea of getting more pussy so they promise a better more attractive and powerful body next to their fat disgusting beer swollen friend they hire Johnny IFBB Pro to "pretend" that the product is amazing.
Cutler using HALO or Nitrotech or Adaplon-AnatorP70creakicTech is as believable as the Tooth Fairy.
When Cutler comes to Chicago to guest pose I know who he stays with and that person confirms he doesn't use a single supplement. He eats a hell of a lot of food that's for damn sure.
I pray the newbs reading this learns something.
Thanks, Musclephone!
Thanks, Howie.
Great post, agree 100%
I drink a shake in the morning b/c I hate eating breakfast and I can at least get some "liquid" calories before lunch. Also sometimes will drink one post workout for the hell of it, especially if I'm not going to be able to eat a solid meal for several hours. Otherwise, I have relied on a gallon of 1-2% milk + red meat, etc per day for mass and strength gains over the years. But don't ask me how to fit into 28" waist pants :P
I always get a kick out of the newbs who think they need to down some protein every three hours on the mark, otherwise they'll lose all their gains. Lift like a mule and eat like a dog. It's a simple formula that people unnecessarily complicate by getting all "scientific" by timing their meals and getting the exact ratio of protein to carbs and the like.
first of all friend NO ONE but few professionals and powerlifters is bigger than gh15,,im 2 howies but not as fat as one howie if you get what im saying
If you're gonna make such sweeping statements, you need to post a pic and put your money where your mouth is, if "you get what im saying". No excuses.
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Gh15 I dont think you should be stating matter of fact statements about people just because it suits your argument. Troponin was just out here in Cali with me a short time ago. His last show was the 2007 USA in July and off.....its now May 2008. Coming up on a year now clean as a whistle but the guy can walk around 260-270 any day of the week with veins up and down his arms and as big as a house. I know many a huge amateur that is 300 on and 265-275 off. Im sorry that Getbig as a whole only can believe that steroids either make or break a bodybuilder but its not true. Maybe for the guys who are hi rep blood pumping bodybuilders who dont put their time in lifting back breaking heavy weights in their training.....those guys disengrate. But not the heavy slag lifting guys who built that thickness through poundages lifted over the years. Do you honestly think that people like Jay Cutler and Victor Richards and other mesomorphic bodybuilders are going to go from a thick offseason 300 pounds down to a paltry 215lbs if they kept everything else the same (heavy lifting, eating etc) and only removed hormonal help? Not a chance in hell. This board uses Tom Prince as its calling card for this very argument....a guy on kidney dialysis who HAS to reduce his bodyweight dramatically or whats the other choice? Or he dies. Hmmm I would say thats a good enough reason to give up all lifting and eating like a bodybuilder and reduce your bodyweight to 185lbs or so. But take a normal mesomorphic beast (and especially one who has been at a certain muscular size and bodyweight for a long long time with chemical help*****and therein is the key to all this) and remove only the chemical help and you will see that person lose some weight and look smoother but in no way disenegrate (unless thats the choice they themselves decide to make)
nah my friend,,
tropopin is a 29? year old fella lifter on everything and anything he could get during his time lifting,,he does very similar stacks like the local cops that do nationals and place accpordingly because his genetic respond is not good enough to be a profeesional,,nice fella though
his friend? kooklo the kid will be a profeesional,,but since you want a bit of truth into the equation ill give you the truth ,,
reason tropioin and kooklo look the same physiqe wize is because tropopin brought up kooklo to his stacks level,,you are talking here about guys that live for hormoens my friend,,trust me on that i can name here the exact products each is on to the t ,,tropopin is 100% hormonized and wouldnt be able to stand even 220lb at single digit after a year plus of being clean as in REAL CLEAN,,very few can maintain 220-230 at 6'1 at 10% clean and he is not one of them since he is as far from a freak as a powerlifter is far from a bodybuilder
in anycase the tropopin use and knowledge of hormones is vast ,,he put a lot of hours into it and did the right job for his genetic and he will forever be at the 5-15 placings in nationals but he went far for what he have because he knew his hormones and his bodybuilding both from inside the book but more importantly from the outside by experiemnting,,
his use of insulin and gh is a given and his all look is a bi product of the 2000s since it is a look that can make an average physiqe look impressive due to the use of gh and insulin with tren and diff easters of test depending on the need to a good gain of muscle mass,,he got the products test nandrolone/eq dianabol and anadrol gh insulin trenbolone all in his past experiences on a regular basis,,
he is a little smarter than the local cop in yuor local town that does nationals though,,he did himself good at young age to survive in a sport where only few become professionals ,,ihes not one of them and kooklo is one of them but they were in a stage a year ago where both look the same because both use the same exact goodies gh insulin aas and stimulants
a natural tropopin at single digit would never see the number 200lb
a natural kooklo at single digit would never see the number 175lb
though tropopin is thicker naturally kooklo can weight 50lb less and look better when it comes to muscle shape asymetry and response to hormones thus = pro card
thats how gh15 sees is and ofcourse it is 100% accurate so no need for feedback
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Funny how Arnold always shrunk up bigtime after some of his later shows and he by his own words never stopped lifting even after he retired.
ys arnold very good example,,
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well i guess if you two can only walk around at 215 clean after 10-20 years of lifting (which is pretty much what you are saying to me) then it sucks to be you.
have you ever looked at tropopin fella when hes not on duretics or go over 9-10%? lots of redness swollen down syndrom look as result of aas gh and insulin ,,,gh15 already named it the down syndrom look that hormonized lifters/bodybuilders get wether they like it or not wether they want it or not,,
you can work 50 years in gym it dont matter see kevin and see many others that really went off when it comes to bodybuilding the bodybuilder rarely goes off even after he is done because after so many yeras on you need the products to keep sex drive and energy etc etc,,then again you got cialis and viagra but they aint no equal to good ole testosterone
when you say 215 clean you mean double digits and bodyfat% and its possible but it aint nothing to write home about and many bodybuilders look like that and yes you give them a look or 2 in local gym but they are no melvins and rays to put it nicely
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it rather disturbes me that people dont quite understand the reason for 250lb guys walking aroudn today looking like tropopin and other local nationals,,those fellas are not bigger as result of hard work friends,,thy are bigger as result of gh and insulin use,,they all look the same but they lack muscle development and shape inorder to get the pro card we got in the 80s and 90s,,take those fellas and put them next to samir or tom plats or arnold or kevin or labrada and even though they are 260lb they look like sack of mashed potatos incomparisson ,,
in contrast to what dante said i ABSOULUTLY 100% disagree and say to you that the ONLY REASON the fella talked about here tropopin can maintain 250 anything if he is indeed 250 at single digit is the use and abuse of gh and insulin inadition to aas,,
you people simply do not understand what it is to be 250lb at 9% at 5'10 ,,i can assure you 100% 1000% that you will never see the number 240lb at single digit at 5'9 5'10 or under if you dont use gh and insulin ,,,you simply wont no matter what people with agendas come and tell you
ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT THOSE PEOPLE HAVE COMPANIES AND SELL SUPPLEMETNS ,,TROPOPIN IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF APPROVAL FOR TRUE PROTEIN,,THEIR STUFF IS BASED AND APPROVED AND QUESTIONED ABOUT FROM PEOPLE SUCH AS YORUSELF TO PEOPLE SUCH AS TROPOPIN ,,THE TROPOPIN FELLA WILL ACTUALLY TELL YOU HE IS PUTTING 20 BCAA AND 100 GRAMS THIS AND THAT AND THEN ALL KINDA USELESS SUPP INTO DRINKS BUT YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THER EIS ALWAYS A SELLING PITCH AND THE GUYS THAT OWN AND OPERATE THOSE COMPANIES SUCH AS DANTE AND GETNY ...THEY ARE UP FOR SELLING PRODUCTS WHICH IN PART ARE GOOD FOR PROTIEN INTAKE AND INPART ARE GARBAGE LIKE CREATINE,,YOU FRIENDS ESPECIALLY THE YOUNGSTERS MAKE THEM RICHER BY BUYING ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING WHICH IS GOOD FOR THEM BUT BAD FOR YOU ....YOU GUYS NEED TO THINK BEFORE YOU BUY AND ASK YOURSELF WETHR ARNOLD ATE THAT STUFF INORDER TO LOOK THAT GOOD OR WETHER SAMIR NEEDED THAT SHIT,,YOU GUYS NEED TO KEEP IT REAL AND BE REAL WITH YUORSELF AND KNOW THAT WHATEVER IS NOT REAL FOOD WETHER SOLID OR LIQUID BUT REAL FOOD....WHATEVER IS NOT REAL FOOD IS IN 99% OF CASES PURE GARBAGE AND SELLING TACTIC LIKE IN ANY OTHER FIELD,,
aince gh15 know that this board is the real deal gh15 says it like it iALTHOUGH i have had contracts with companies who sell those shits because the money was good
its just the way bodybuilding for the masses work friends,,but i expect from you to know better and not fall into bullshit selling tactics
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gh15, you're so wrong. I was 240 lbs at 12% body fat last year before my injury, lifetime natural. Shows how wrong you are!!!
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friend,, if you truly were 240lb at 12% percent you were using a simple deca/dbol stack,, dieted down you would be 103lbs with 2.5 inch arms,, so you =below average bodybuilder
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friend,, if you truly were 240lb at 12% percent you were using a simple deca/dbol stack,, dieted down you would be 103lbs with 2.5 inch arms,, so you =below average bodybuilder
Brutal gimmick ::) ::) ::)
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lol ;D
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in contrast to what dante said i ABSOULUTLY 100% disagree and say to you that the ONLY REASON the fella talked about here tropopin can maintain 250 anything if he is indeed 250 at single digit is the use and abuse of gh and insulin inadition to aas,,
Yeah I recall Trop even said something to the effect of "the biggest reason I've put on size the past few years is the 'post workout protocol'". Well we know what that means and it's not just waxy maize. :D
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I've seen the pic so no need. Dave was only in for 4 months if I recall correctly. He did eat lots of tuna. He made friends with a few guards and probabley got some extra food too. The fact that he had no weights was not even a big deal since there are a ton of different bodyweight exercises that he could do in his cell and get a hell of a pump and that would provide enough resistance for him to keep his muscles from shrinking in the same manner as if he had quit exercising altogether.
The fact that Dave was VERY lean in the pic you mention made him look a lot bigger than he really was. Dave is NO WHERE NEAR as big as he used to be years ago. He is obviously not jacked like he used to be.
Your comparing Dave's jacked pics to his coming out of jail pics.....whats that got to do with anything? Ones fully loaded with all the benefits of good food and lifting facilities and one isnt. You stated that when someone gets off the sauce they go right back down to their previous natural state limit which I absolutely disagree with. He got out of jail obviously on nothing, (with limited food and limited weight lifting capability in there...weighing 240 pounds or so at 5'9" - 5'10".....a far cry from his college natural days look isnt it? He didnt exactly revert back to his college look did he. Are you going to tell me if he was a lifetime natural that he would be able to stand at 240lbs with that same "out of prison" look.....if he was lifetime natural. No, performance enhancement has helped him get to a level that is beyond what he could of accomplished naturally.
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Yeah I recall Trop even said something to the effect of "the biggest reason I've put on size the past few years is the 'post workout protocol'". Well we know what that means and it's not just waxy maize. :D
I believe my exact words were the lyrics of this song:
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To be honest, threads like this are always very odd to me.
I have a hard time grasping the mindset of a lot of the people involved in bodybuilding. I'm very, very different than the majority of the people I meet in the sport. I have many other things in my life besides bbing. The majority of people here just have a different way of thinking than I do. To be honest, I try not to think of bbing very often because the people in the sport depress me. I can say how I feel on the subject, but people will continue on devoting their lives to convincing themselves their failures are not from faults of their own regardless of what I have to say.
There are many interesting things in the world, and the fact that people are here debating things of this nature is very surreal to me.
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first of all friend NO ONE but few professionals and powerlifters is bigger than gh15,,im 2 howies but not as fat as one howie if you get what im saying
now ,,this has nothign to do with gh15,,it has to do with facts,,the fact that you were or are npc judge just make npc look horrid ,,you ut bad light on the judging honesty by saying you know this and that compete naturally ,,
now,,what gh15 is saying to you is that you know WELL that you been into the hormones and so called drugs in the 1980s when no one knew a from b and now days the guys at your nothing to write home about level from the 80s use double and tripe those doses and more products,,
howie, who are you fooling here? yourself ? defenitely not because you know very well that you would never step on stage if did grow to begin with on hormones after intial growth stopped past first 3 years in gym
gh15 doesnt say that professional only use hormones,,gh15 is saying that EVERY ONE THAT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING USES HORMONES AND THAT MEANS THE GYM RAT WITH THE SKINNY LEGS AND AWESOME UPPER BODY ,,,THE BLACK GUY WITH DETAILED BIG ARMS AND NO CHEST THAT BEEN IN GYM FOR 5 YEARS AND ALWAYS LOOK THE SAME YET MAINTAIN BIG SIZE AND LOW BODYFAT% BUT DOESNT CARE MUCH FOR ANYTHING DETAILED THUS REACHED PLATUE EVEN ON HORMONES,,THE GIRL THAT WALKED AROUND WITH FAKE TANNING BAD AND NAILS DONE AND SHOW TIGHT MIDSECTION AND TONED ARMS IN HER LATE MID 30S,,,THE GIRLS WHO NEEVR WANNA GET OLD AND IS SINGLE FOREVER AND HAS PSYCOLOGICAL PROBLEMS AND USE GH GIVEN TO HER BY A FRIEND THAT GET IT FROM HIS FRIEND THAT IS AN AIDS PACIENT BECAUSE HE WANNA GET INTO HER PANTIES AND INDEED GET THERE etc etc
if you sit and see guys as npc judge and you tell me they are natural on regional shows? why are you lieing to those kids here? what benefit does it give to you to even say this rubbish? i understand if you go judge local countryclub competition or county competition and see 2-3 guys natural that you place in 3rd place out of 5 competitors....they can be naturals and thus never win even the country club competition BUT the lies you give here about regional is crazy misleading in its nature
hormones to the bodybuilder ESPECIALLY COMPETETIVE AT ALL LEVELS..is like water for the human body,,the smallest guys are usually the ones who juice as much as the biggest guys ...they just cant grow so they polish their size wether its due to height or just average rsponse they polish whatever god gave them with the hormone help
with out hormones ...milos doesnt have a business,,with out hormones luke wood would never make it to win a local competition he would probably sit in austalian gym winning mr aussi gym something among the 100 members,,with out hormones ben johnson wouldnt break world record in 1988,,with out hormones armstrong wouldnt win tour de france he was fuckin finished and had cancer the guy was on so much epo and still is american hero by lieing exactly with out hormones barry would still be 160lb skinny black boy,,with out hormones alex a would never get to be chizeled and look like atonomy chart,,with out hormones tropopin would sit home eating nachos and woulnt step on stage,,with out hormones that moron kid lunch? whatever his name is wouldnt walk around 280lb he would be sitting at 220 in a good day at 18-20%,,with out hormones there would be a lot less people in the gym that are actually bodybuild ..it will be similar to now days in america when gym population is down big time when it comes to bodybuilder because we closed china to a degree,,with out hormones you boards wouldnt have over 15 thousand member and you are talking here about multiple boards,,with out hormones you wouldnt walk around saying this guy or that guy look great and actually go to see him flex,,with out hormones you would be a walking water fountain with midsection at 40 inches due to creatine use that doesnt do shit no matter what scammers tell you ,,with out hormones you would still think protein powder does something to you anabolically while in reality if any poweder does anything to yoru physiqe it has hormones in it ..very easy to put some dianabol poweder especially dirty grades from china that cost pennys and have very low dose of hormone but still work minimally to give beter results than any natural product there is,,with out hormones you wouldnt have the problems hrt clinic have in america because so many guys and girls wanna join them for hrt,,with out hormones guys like phil heath would be nothing comparing to the meso england black guy from this board that i belive eis truly natural,,with out hormones you would have 20 people in bodybuilding show all family members insted of the 100s or 1000s you got now,,,with out hormones you wouldnt be able to present dry sliced physiqes ,,seperation would not be noticable because when you done diet you wouldnt have much muscle left!,with out hormones guys wouldnt be able to walk around saying they are 250lb at 7% ...
gh15 just come to clarify reality and you howie is part of generation where this reality is hard to tell to because for you natural and hormonized is in a way the same thing...what is clen...what is couple pills ...what is low doses...oh i try this igf it is legal ...oh this is just m1t...its hard to actually talk sense to someone that belong in generation that got the shaft closed on them and end of 80s beggining of 90s got punishment and got hormones undeer control in their homeland,,,
you have good intentions but you dont understand that the hormone use is part HUGE part of bodybuilding,,natural guys never win shows,,they never look thick and ripped,,they always look like their girlfriend is bigger than them,,also this idea that natural means oen year off drugs is ridicoulous because inorder to be natural you shoudl never be on drugs period,,never start them to begin with,,
it got to a point today that i see bodybuilders coming to me saying they are natural or clean because their shipment got delayed and they been off for 3 weeks...it got to be very bad and i blame your generation for the creation of generation nothingess attitue twars bodybuilding
Delayed shipment? So, you are a drug dealer?
Good luck
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To be honest, threads like this are always very odd to me.
I have a hard time grasping the mindset of a lot of the people involved in bodybuilding. I'm very, very different than the majority of the people I meet in the sport. I have many other things in my life besides bbing. The majority of people here just have a different way of thinking than I do. To be honest, I try not to think of bbing very often because the people in the sport depress me. I can say how I feel on the subject, but people will continue on devoting their lives to convincing themselves their failures are not from faults of their own regardless of what I have to say.
There are many interesting things in the world, and the fact that people are here debating things of this nature is very surreal to me.
Great post and I agree. Bodybuilding is a fun hobby and my favorite sport, but, I have a lot of interests in my life as well. Getting too serious on these trivial topics cand depress ya, that is for sure ;)
I am a political junkie and spent a lot of time reading the info on the recent release of the classified UFO documnets from the British Gov. I don't think a drug guru like GH15 can appreciate a guy that is not into illegal steroid use.
I can understand that, if everyone in bodybuilding were like us, him and his kind would be out of business.
Howard
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I don't think a drug guru like GH15 can appreciate a guy that is not into illegal steroid use.
I can understand that, if everyone in bodybuilding were like us, him and his kind would be out of business.
Howard
What the hell? You don't think Trop ever used drugs of the illegal kind? Even if Trop is honest and has been clean a year the thing is he is very much into bodybuilding drugs and knows a shitload about them. Same with Dante. Both of these guys have been very much into the bodybuilding drug culture (nothing wrong with that).
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But Van and both Trop and I agree on this......there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that there is a gigantic difference between the limits of muscularity and bodyweight of a lifetime natural vs what someone who has blasted way way way past natural limits.......and then goes back to being natural can do.
(300 enhanced) - (enhanced) does not equal 215lbs (not unless you absolutely dont know what the hell your doing bodybuilding wise)
I sure as heck dont know what these other trainers are doing but I know as sure as hell my trainees dont fall back 80lbs when they go clean. If i were some of these other trainers I would start questioning my methods if your own trainees turn into scarecrows when they clean out. Doesnt seem like what your offering for advice training and eating wise is working very well.....and basically you are pretty much a glorified drug guru and only a drug guru. I dont mean to be a dickhead but if its 95% drugs as you state, why the heck even train hard or eat bodybuilding faire every 3 hours if it means just 5%?
Has Bob Chick been on 20 years straight with no breaks? No way in hell, have you ever seen him in the offseason where he has ever been under 250lbs? No because weight training and eating actually DO something.
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I wish i could muster up enough interest to actually give a shit
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Mike's typical reply when Laura nags him to stop "livin' the dream" and go get a real job:
I wish i could muster up enough interest to actually give a shit
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But Van and both Trop and I agree on this......there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that there is a gigantic difference between the limits of muscularity and bodyweight of a lifetime natural vs what someone who has blasted way way way past natural limits.......and then goes back to being natural can do.
(300 enhanced) - (enhanced) does not equal 215lbs (not unless you absolutely dont know what the hell your doing bodybuilding wise)
I sure as heck dont know what these other trainers are doing but I know as sure as hell my trainees dont fall back 80lbs when they go clean. If i were some of these other trainers I would start questioning my methods if your own trainees turn into scarecrows when they clean out. Doesnt seem like what your offering for advice training and eating wise is working very well.....and basically you are pretty much a glorified drug guru and only a drug guru. I dont mean to be a dickhead but if its 95% drugs as you state, why the heck even train hard or eat bodybuilding faire every 3 hours if it means just 5%?
Has Bob Chick been on 20 years straight with no breaks? No way in hell, have you ever seen him in the offseason where he has ever been under 250lbs? No because weight training and eating actually DO something.
I agree you don't lose everything immediately and you probably get a new set-point. But you know I read about your theories on Animal's board a few years back and you said most pros do not go off completely. You had your own theories on how to "cruise" the best way. And recently there was the discussion on promuscle about Cutler, how he goes off for a couple of months and uses a bunch of growth to maintain. That's not off.
Take an advanced bb who goes off for a year, completely off - no insulin, no growth, no nothing and it's not going to be pretty even if he trains and eats "correctly". The reaction from the fans will be "what the hell happened?" If he doesn't put on a bunch of fat the size loss will be dramatic IMO.
Do you think Chick has been off since the Masters comp? With a Rx for "HRT" you can maintain a lot.
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Has Bob Chick been on 20 years straight with no breaks? No way in hell, have you ever seen him in the offseason where he has ever been under 250lbs? No because weight training and eating actually DO something.
Sure they do, but they're not going to get an under 6' guy above 200-205 absolute max at low bodyweight without a boatload of drugs.
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Gh15 I dont think you should be stating matter of fact statements about people just because it suits your argument. Troponin was just out here in Cali with me a short time ago. His last show was the 2007 USA in July and off.....its now May 2008. Coming up on a year now clean as a whistle but the guy can walk around 260-270 any day of the week with veins up and down his arms and as big as a house. I know many a huge amateur that is 300 on and 265-275 off. Im sorry that Getbig as a whole only can believe that steroids either make or break a bodybuilder but its not true. Maybe for the guys who are hi rep blood pumping bodybuilders who dont put their time in lifting back breaking heavy weights in their training.....those guys disengrate. But not the heavy slag lifting guys who built that thickness through poundages lifted over the years. Do you honestly think that people like Jay Cutler and Victor Richards and other mesomorphic bodybuilders are going to go from a thick offseason 300 pounds down to a paltry 215lbs if they kept everything else the same (heavy lifting, eating etc) and only removed hormonal help? Not a chance in hell.
Hmmm….that sounds very similar to what Jim Quinn said, in an interview with MuscleMag. While giving a retrospect of his career, the interviewer went over his time with the World Bodybuilding Federation (WBF). When the subject of the 1992 Championship came up, the interviewer stated that Quinn and champion Gary Strydom didn’t look as if they came off any anabolics.
Quinn claimed that he was over and Strydom slightly under 300 lb, when the drug-testing regime started and that both were tested, as was everyone else. He further mentioned, that because both he and Strydom trained with the hard and heavy weights, their size (though both were smaller than they were at the 1991 WBF Championship) didn’t just evaporate as does that of guys who do more “pumping”-type of training (i.e. fellow WBF competitor Mike Christian).
This board uses Tom Prince as its calling card for this very argument....a guy on kidney dialysis who HAS to reduce his bodyweight dramatically or whats the other choice? Or he dies. Hmmm I would say thats a good enough reason to give up all lifting and eating like a bodybuilder and reduce your bodyweight to 185lbs or so. But take a normal mesomorphic beast (and especially one who has been at a certain muscular size and bodyweight for a long long time with chemical help*****and therein is the key to all this) and remove only the chemical help and you will see that person lose some weight and look smoother but in no way disenegrate (unless thats the choice they themselves decide to make).
Then, there's the minor fact that at least one of Tom Prince's shoulders is shot, virtually no cartilage; therefore, his heavy-lifting days are over.
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Hmmm….that sounds very similar to what Jim Quinn said, in an interview with MuscleMag. While giving a retrospect of his career, the interviewer went over his time with the World Bodybuilding Federation (WBF). When the subject of the 1992 Championship came up, the interviewer stated that Quinn and champion Gary Strydom didn’t look as if they came off any anabolics.
Quinn claimed that he was over and Strydom slightly under 300 lb, when the drug-testing regime started and that both were tested, as was everyone else. He further mentioned, that because both he and Strydom trained with the hard and heavy weights, their size (though both were smaller than they were at the 1991 WBF Championship) didn’t just evaporate as does that of guys who do more “pumping”-type of training (i.e. fellow WBF competitor Mike Christian).
Pros have a strong incentive to lie about stuff like this. The last thing they want is for people to believe they were "all drugs", they need for people to believe it was mostly their hard work, that the muscles were "theirs"... their egos require it. So, they tell a combination of lies and exaggerations... 210 lbs becomes "260"lbs, Cutting back from 2g/wk and 6 compounds to 500mg/week and 2 compounds becomes "clean", "I cheated my balls off with timing and masking agents" becomes "I passed the drug test", etc.
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He further mentioned, that because both he and Strydom trained with the hard and heavy weights, their size (though both were smaller than they were at the 1991 WBF Championship) didn’t just evaporate as does that of guys who do more “pumping”-type of training (i.e. fellow WBF competitor Mike Christian).
Strydom = tons of growth and insulin. Even back then there was an article in MD about Strydom doing this for the WBF show.
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Pros have a strong incentive to lie about stuff like this. The last thing they want is for people to believe they were "all drugs", they need for people to believe it was mostly their hard work, that the muscles were "theirs"... their egos require it. So, they tell a combination of lies and exaggerations... 210 lbs becomes "260"lbs, Cutting back from 2g/wk and 6 compounds to 500mg/week and 2 compounds becomes "clean", "I cheated my balls off with timing and masking agents" becomes "I passed the drug test", etc.
Unless, they need a stronger prescription for their glasses, no one is going to think that Jim Quinn weiged 210 lb. at the 1992 WBF Championship, especially as his height (6'1").
Egos work both ways, as some people don't want to put in the hard (and smart) work it takes to make gains. Rather than taking a good look at themselves and fixing the problem, they claim it's "all drugs".
Wasn't there a "Steroid Guru" named Dan Duchaine? I don't recall his mantle being loaded with Mr. Universe medals or NPC National/USA trophies.
Strydom = tons of growth and insulin. Even back then there was an article in MD about Strydom doing this for the WBF show.
Would you care to reference this particular issue of MD from 1992?
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dante... dave had acccess to weights in prison. he wrote all about it in his column. and he ate ALOT of makeral. plus, what makes you think he was clean while in there? there are things you can inject that will last for MONTHS.. i forget the name of it but van bilderass could chime in i know hes does. and its pretty well known that paper orals are smuggled into jails as well.
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Wasn't there a "Steroid Guru" named Dan Duchaine? I don't recall his mantle being loaded with Mr. Universe medals or NPC National/USA trophies.
Duchaine had shit genetics. You need good genetics to begin with (both base genetics and genetic response to drugs) to become a pro. You can't just take any gym rat, pump him full of gear, and think he's going to turn into Ronnie Coleman. That doesn't change the fact that pros would be a shell of their current selves without drugs. You want to see what a guy with outstanding pro-level genetics but no access to drugs looks like? Take a look at the bodybuilding champs from the 1940's. Oh, wait... don't tell me... the pros today also have Muscletech, right? ::)
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Duchaine had shit genetics. You need good genetics to begin with (both base genetics and genetic response to drugs) to become a pro. You can't just take any gym rat, pump him full of gear, and think he's going to turn into Ronnie Coleman. That doesn't change the fact that pros would be a shell of their current selves without drugs. You want to see what a guy with outstanding pro-level genetics but no access to drugs looks like? Take a look at the bodybuilding champs from the 1940's. Oh, wait... don't tell me... the pros today also have Muscletech, right? ::)
Good post Goat. I think the real issue here is NOT drugs but what a great physique really is.
I respect the modern pros physique and am a fan of the sport. But, I prefer a more scaled down physique with classic lines and flow. In my humble opinion, the current pros are "too massive" and have a distorted body line.
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Mike's typical reply when Laura nags him to stop "livin' the dream" and go get a real job:
;D ................just waitin for a supplement company to "pick me up"/then were living on easy street!!
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;D ................just waitin for a supplement company to "pick me up"/then were living on easy street!!
Oh well , it is better dream than doing the gay4pay deal anyway hehe
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Duchaine had shit genetics. You need good genetics to begin with (both base genetics and genetic response to drugs) to become a pro. You can't just take any gym rat, pump him full of gear, and think he's going to turn into Ronnie Coleman. That doesn't change the fact that pros would be a shell of their current selves without drugs. You want to see what a guy with outstanding pro-level genetics but no access to drugs looks like? Take a look at the bodybuilding champs from the 1940's. Oh, wait... don't tell me... the pros today also have Muscletech, right? ::)
Maybe he did; maybe he didn't. Genetic potential isn't always evident on the surface. Look at Lou Ferrigno. Would anyone really think he could transform himself into a 315-lb monster at age 41, from looking at those pictures of him as a teenager?
As for Duchaine, did he discipline himself and keep that diet on point? Did he make alterations to gain mass and size? Did he experiment with different training regimes?
Frank Zane and Franco Columbu weren't exactly genetic marvels, either; Yet both have multiple Mr. Olympias to their credit. And, (although he only did it once) the guy who supposedly looked like a "swimmer" DEFEATED Arnold Schwarzenegger in competition.
As another Mr O. is fond of saying, "Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder but don't nobody want to lift no heavy-@$$ weight." I'll extend that further.
Don't nobody want to eat that heavy food (day in, day out; week in, week out; month in, month out; year in, year out). Don't nobody want to sleep, instead of party. Don't nobody want to experiement with different training regimes, because (in their mind) there's only one way to train.
Don't nobody want to actually read the TRAINING and DIET articles of muscle magazines and actually give them a try, instead of affixing themselves to the Gossip columns and salivating on the lastest silicone/saline-stuff porn.....ahem....."fitness models".
That may have had more to do with a lack of Duchaine's success in bodybuilding that his allegedly poor genetics.
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Funny how Arnold always shrunk up bigtime after some of his later shows and he by his own words never stopped lifting even after he retired.
Key word: RETIRED.
That means:
1) While Arnold was still lifting weights, he was not training to win world titles in bodybuilding.
2) His movie roles required him to be smaller than he was in his competiton prime. Remember that, after he won the 1974 Olympia, he dropped 30 pounds for his part in “Stay Hungry” (which is high irony, since he was portraying a bodybuilder in that film), 20 of which he regained for the 1975 Olympia and “Pumping Iron”.
3) Even with reduced size, some people STILL think that he was too big. Yet, it didn’t stop him in his acting career, which replaced bodybuilding as his primary focus.
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Maybe he did; maybe he didn't. Genetic potential isn't always evident on the surface. Look at Lou Ferrigno. Would anyone really think he could transform himself into a 315-lb monster at age 41, from looking at those pictures of him as a teenager.
As for Duchaine, did he discipline himself and keep that diet on point? Did he make alterations to gain mass and size? Did he experiment with different training regimes.
Frank Zane and Franco Columbu weren't exactly genetic marvels, either; Yet both have multiple Mr. Olympias to their credit. And, (although he only did it once) the guy who supposedly looked like a "swimmer" DEFEATED Arnold Schwarzenegger in competition.
As another Mr O. is fond of saying, "Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder but don't nobody want to lift no heavy-@$$ weight." I'll extend that further.
Don't nobody want to eat that heavy food (day in, day out; week in, week out; month in, month out; year in, year out). Don't nobody want to sleep, instead of party. Don't nobody want to experiement with different training regimes, because (in their mind) there's only one way to train.
Don't nobody want to actually read the TRAINING and DIET articles of muscle magazines and actually give them a try, instead of affixing themselves to the Gossip columns and salivating on the lastest silicone/saline-stuff porn.....ahem....."fitness models".
That may have had more to do with a lack of Duchaine's success in bodybuilding that his allegedly poor genetics.
Great post and I agree with most of it.
Kinda ironic how the guys that think it is all drugs , are the same ones that do a boatolad of drugs and never win anything ( like Duchaine).
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Maybe he did; maybe he didn't. Genetic potential isn't always evident on the surface. Look at Lou Ferrigno. Would anyone really think he could transform himself into a 315-lb monster at age 41, from looking at those pictures of him as a teenager?
As for Duchaine, did he discipline himself and keep that diet on point? Did he make alterations to gain mass and size? Did he experiment with different training regimes?
Frank Zane and Franco Columbu weren't exactly genetic marvels, either; Yet both have multiple Mr. Olympias to their credit. And, (although he only did it once) the guy who supposedly looked like a "swimmer" DEFEATED Arnold Schwarzenegger in competition.
As another Mr O. is fond of saying, "Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder but don't nobody want to lift no heavy-@$$ weight." I'll extend that further.
Don't nobody want to eat that heavy food (day in, day out; week in, week out; month in, month out; year in, year out). Don't nobody want to sleep, instead of party. Don't nobody want to experiement with different training regimes, because (in their mind) there's only one way to train.
Don't nobody want to actually read the TRAINING and DIET articles of muscle magazines and actually give them a try, instead of affixing themselves to the Gossip columns and salivating on the lastest silicone/saline-stuff porn.....ahem....."fitness models".
That may have had more to do with a lack of Duchaine's success in bodybuilding that his allegedly poor genetics.
So the champions of the 1940's were lazy in the gym and spent all their time on Getbig? Gotcha. ::)
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So the champions of the 1940's were lazy in the gym and spent all their time on Getbig? Gotcha. ::)
But yu know they would have been on getbig , all the time if it did exist back then.
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Key word: RETIRED.
That means:
2) His movie roles required him to be smaller than he was in his competiton prime.
Yeah, I'm sure that the casting directors for movies like "Conan the Barbarian", "Terminator", "Predator", et al were looking for a "smaller" guy without "too much muscle". ::)
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Funny how Arnold always shrunk up bigtime after some of his later shows and he by his own words never stopped lifting even after he retired.
Yes, Arnold shrunk when off but does anyone think it matters, even just a little, that he also stopped training and eating like a bodybuilder? Say, he continued juicing but also stopped training and cut back his eating tremendously, do you think he still would have shrunk as much or would hormones alone he would keep his mass? What happens to a person off cycle but continues to train and eat like when he was on? It seems that with a lot of pros when they are off they are off everything, including training and nutrition. So instead of just "it's all drugs" could it also be "it's just all drugs, training and nutrition."
Of course, you need hormones, and lots of them, to get to the top. But you also need to train and to eat. Take out anyone of those factors and your not going to look like a bodybuilder let alone win anything.
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Delayed shipment? So, you are a drug dealer?
Good luck
are you a child molster and pedofile? no right? so what are you throwing drug dealer out like that ,,you are a moron and not only you blame gh15 of something it doesnt do but you also used those so called drugs for big part of yuor life and still use them in cream form
i swear sometimes i think benz get to the right people skins,,howerd you demonstrate on a dailly basis,,gh15 described SITUATIONS from bodybuilding life styles that doesnt have anything to do with suppliers
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gh15, you're so wrong. I was 240 lbs at 12% body fat last year before my injury, lifetime natural. Shows how wrong you are!!!
GH15 SAID MANY TIMES THAT EVERY INCH OF HEIGHT = 7 LB YOU ARE MOST LIKLEY NOT 5'10 OR 5'9
12% IS FARRRRRRRRR FROM SINGLE DIGIT AND IS NTO 10% EITHER
240LB IS USUALLY 232.5 ON DIGITAL SCALE WHEN WAKING UP IN THE AM
CLEN AND LITTLE IGF ,,,SOME RESEARCH PRODUCTS THAT ANY ONE CAN BUY AND ANY ONE USES BECAUSE THOSE COMPANIES MAKE GOOD MONEY ....THSOE PRODUCTS ARE CONSIDERED NATURAL :) ALTHOUGH THEY ARE NOT ,,INFACT M1T WILL ACT VERY SIMILAR TO TESTOSTERONE IN BODY WITH MORE SIDE EFFECTS BUT STILL ON SOME PEOPEL PRO HORMONE WILL BOOST UP TEST
IN ANY CASE,,IF YOU WERE TRULY 240LB AT 5'10 12% ...YOU WOULD BE DANCING ON STAGES AT 197LB WINNING NPC SHOWS AS LIGHT HEAVY...YOURE NOT
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To be honest, threads like this are always very odd to me.
I have a hard time grasping the mindset of a lot of the people involved in bodybuilding. I'm very, very different than the majority of the people I meet in the sport. I have many other things in my life besides bbing. The majority of people here just have a different way of thinking than I do. To be honest, I try not to think of bbing very often because the people in the sport depress me. I can say how I feel on the subject, but people will continue on devoting their lives to convincing themselves their failures are not from faults of their own regardless of what I have to say.
There are many interesting things in the world, and the fact that people are here debating things of this nature is very surreal to me.
Spoken like a man who lives outside the box...the bodybuilding box, that is. ;)
Still....no response to gh15's claims ???
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Your comparing Dave's jacked pics to his coming out of jail pics.....whats that got to do with anything? Ones fully loaded with all the benefits of good food and lifting facilities and one isnt. You stated that when someone gets off the sauce they go right back down to their previous natural state limit which I absolutely disagree with. He got out of jail obviously on nothing, (with limited food and limited weight lifting capability in there...weighing 240 pounds or so at 5'9" - 5'10".....a far cry from his college natural days look isnt it? He didnt exactly revert back to his college look did he. Are you going to tell me if he was a lifetime natural that he would be able to stand at 240lbs with that same "out of prison" look.....if he was lifetime natural. No, performance enhancement has helped him get to a level that is beyond what he could of accomplished naturally.
dave palumbo is a criminal. the moment you walk into this side of society you can never distingwish anymore between lies and truth ...you just spit it out how ever sounds right to you inorder to get some kind of financial benefits from some kind of deal,,the problem here is that you came to the wrong place to preach your words ,,on getbig 90% of the fellas know what it takes ,,,know that palumbo had weight in prison,,know he was ther short time,,know he could get in pills as easy as saying it is tictacs ..do you understand that the ups mail in america deliver to houses in america every day 1000s of packages full fo drugs? fedex even usps all those mail carriers deliver pills like they were popsicles,,,loose packs ,,no one knows what it is no one has a lab to test it for all you know it is candy ,,,there are many ways to get shit you need in prison especially non controled stuff like igf that can be delivered no problem and it is exatly what palumbo look like ,,he look like ONE WEIRD LOOKING BLUB OF IGF,,in any case if he was on something and look like in this picture it is sad because he looks horrid and 190-200lb and only after few months in prison
palumbo is not good example for what you try to say ,,he didnt become a pro for a reason ,,he had a freak response to hormone but he didnt have the basics inorder to walk among the best,,,i could hav told him that in his college years ,,you can tell right there that he was not built for greatness in bodybuilding,,
he made his money from everything BUT competetive bodybuilding
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Spoken like a man who lives outside the box...the bodybuilding box, that is. ;)
Still....no response to gh15's claims ???
trhere is no need for any response ,,the knowledge gh15 is right is deep sitting within the brains of true bodybuilders,,what wil one say? yea i know im like some locals night shift cops that own supplement stores and have some kind of gym inside and do nationals once a year? yea i know that 2 months off the goods i will be sitting 235lb in that small gym geting asked every 3 min what happened and getting chalenged by 220lb begginers (1-2years or less on hormones) that are "gettigng there",,,??
in 2000 there was a rule in bodybuilding ,,we put a stop to it now days but there was this rule,,,the rule name was FOLLOW THE GYM BEG,,it was usually blue :D,,in 2000 you knew that your life were dependent on that gym bag you knwo why? i will tell you why
inside that gym bag there was your next cycle and products coming right out of mexico and later on china,,sometimes even human grades,,,your dealer that 240lb 12%....would have that gym bag on him when entering the gym...or he would keep it in his jeeps....that gym bag when you saw it you got a hard on...ofcourse internet came into picture and rest is history
but have no mistake friends....ALL OF THESE GUYS ESPECIALLY STATE LEVEL AND UP ARE ADDICTED TO HORMONES AND HAVE HUGEEEEEEEE DOWN FALLS WHEN GOING OFF,,BOITH MENTAL AND PHYSICAL
sadly as it sound since 2004 it also apply to local competitors,,
it is nothing like it used to be in the 1930s..40s friends,,,40s is long gone
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Yeah, I'm sure that the casting directors for movies like "Conan the Barbarian", "Terminator", "Predator", et al were looking for a "smaller" guy without "too much muscle". ::)
What part of "smaller than he was in his competitive prime" did you not grasp? Name one of those movies where Arnold was as big as he was during his Mr. Olympia years.
So the champions of the 1940's were lazy in the gym and spent all their time on Getbig? Gotcha. ::)
Who said they were lazy? In fact, they had better physiques than the guys here, lamenting about "all drugs".
With that said, did they eat as much bodybuilders do today?
What about training regimes? Do bodybuilders today train EXACTLY like those from the '40s?
And, wasn't their goal back then to be more of the "ideal" Greek physique, as opposed to being a supreme mass monster?
Take that into consideration, before you start rolling your eyes.
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Duchaine had shit genetics. You need good genetics to begin with (both base genetics and genetic response to drugs) to become a pro. You can't just take any gym rat, pump him full of gear, and think he's going to turn into Ronnie Coleman. That doesn't change the fact that pros would be a shell of their current selves without drugs. You want to see what a guy with outstanding pro-level genetics but no access to drugs looks like? Take a look at the bodybuilding champs from the 1940's. Oh, wait... don't tell me... the pros today also have Muscletech, right? ::)
Good post.
Some of the best NPC competitors that float around the National ranks here in the Midwest use only a fraction of what the guys who can't even win their class. Dan Duchaine even said no matter what he took he couldn't break 180lbs.
HOWIE opened the can of worms, here using my name in the title. I don't mind but I am getting tired of the PM's asking me why I am now all "anti-supplements". I am very much NOT anti-supplement. They serve a purpose if you know when to apply the benefits. All I am saying is that the "PROS" don't ever use them nor do they probably know how. I am also saying I wish the supplement companies could be held more accountable for their claims and images. I am saying that suplements are NOT useless nor are they a waste of money if you keep them very in-general(protein, essential fatty acids, plain creatine, multi-vitamin etc...) and use them IN ADDITION TO.
A jug of protein used to last me 10-12 days because I so had to have 3 shakes a day because FLEX Magazine said that you need 40g of whey in the morning before breakfast then you need 50g post-workout then you need 30-40g at bedtime. That was alot of cash I was spending. Now a jug of protein lasts me about 40 days. That's all I'm saying.
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A jug of protein used to last me 10-12 days because I so had to have 3 shakes a day because FLEX Magazine said that you need 40g of whey in the morning before breakfast then you need 50g post-workout then you need 30-40g at bedtime. That was alot of cash I was spending. Now a jug of protein lasts me about 40 days. That's all I'm saying.
LOL.....I know what you mean.... ;D
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personally i drink whey pre and post workout thats it.. but for those purpouses, i dont think it is very useful... but like gh has said before, liquid egg whites pretty much = whey
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Dan Duchaine even said no matter what he took he couldn't break 180lbs.
I'm not asking you to be disloyal :D but listen to the Mike Zumpano interviews on No Bull radio. Zumpano said Duchaine, when they first met, was on 16 different bodybuilding drugs but complained he couldn't gain. Then he found out Duchaine was only eating 1800 calories a day LOL :D
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I'm not asking you to be disloyal :D but listen to the Mike Zumpano interviews on No Bull radio. Zumpano said Duchaine, when they first met, was on 16 different bodybuilding drugs but complained he couldn't gain. Then he found out Duchaine was only eating 1800 calories a day LOL :D
Haaha ! And thats the bodybuilding guru then lol
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i like van b,,i like his posts a lot,,that fella is deserving 5 stars of expert,,very good posts writen well
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I'm not asking you to be disloyal :D but listen to the Mike Zumpano interviews on No Bull radio. Zumpano said Duchaine, when they first met, was on 16 different bodybuilding drugs but complained he couldn't gain. Then he found out Duchaine was only eating 1800 calories a day LOL :D
Wait a minute but are you saying that MDRadio had a guido on the show as a guest? No way. Next thing you'll be telling me is that they'll have another New Yorker on the show. ;)
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Yes, Arnold shrunk when off but does anyone think it matters, even just a little, that he also stopped training and eating like a bodybuilder? Say, he continued juicing but also stopped training and cut back his eating tremendously,
Arnold never stopped training although I am sure he intensity level went down a bit. Also, if you know anything about Arnold and it seems you don't he never ate a lot of food to begin with. His diet was very balanced.
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Your comparing Dave's jacked pics to his coming out of jail pics.....whats that got to do with anything? Ones fully loaded with all the benefits of good food and lifting facilities and one isnt. You stated that when someone gets off the sauce they go right back down to their previous natural state limit which I absolutely disagree with. He got out of jail obviously on nothing, (with limited food and limited weight lifting capability in there...weighing 240 pounds or so at 5'9" - 5'10".....a far cry from his college natural days look isnt it? He didnt exactly revert back to his college look did he. Are you going to tell me if he was a lifetime natural that he would be able to stand at 240lbs with that same "out of prison" look.....if he was lifetime natural. No, performance enhancement has helped him get to a level that is beyond what he could of accomplished naturally.
You know what Brian? Sometimes I wonder if you are just acting dumb or you really are. I know that you have a lot of knowledge when it comes to lifting, but I don't understand where you get some of these goofy ideas?? You act like Dave was still huge when he got out of jail. You are the one that wanted the pic posted?? My point is that he lost a lot of size in 5 months, although he did stay lean. Why in the HELL would he shrink back down to his high school days in 5 months!!!!!!!!
Hell, it's normal for a lot of guys to just gain weight after high scholl for the fact that they are getting older and many guys I went to school with still filled out quite a bit after high school and they don't even lift weights. I have a friend who got in trouble many years ago. This guy was freakin huge and jacked. It took many many months for his levels to get back down to somewhat normal. In fact his parole officer even told him that if he didn't see it for himself that his levels were going down he would assumed that he was still using. Now, after a few months of being off he FINALLY started to shrink and when he did he freakin shrunk!!!!!! He went from 280 to 220. He still lifted religiously and he ate very good. Oh and by the way, his last blood test still showed that his test levels were still a little above normal!!!. Gee I wonder why he lost all that size?? Maybe he had bad genetics? ::)
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are you a child molster and pedofile? no right? so what are you throwing drug dealer out like that ,,you are a moron and not only you blame gh15 of something it doesnt do but you also used those so called drugs for big part of yuor life and still use them in cream form
i swear sometimes i think benz get to the right people skins,,howerd you demonstrate on a dailly basis,,gh15 described SITUATIONS from bodybuilding life styles that doesnt have anything to do with suppliers
Look buddy, I could care less what you do. I don't know /don't care if you deal drugs (steroids ) or whatever and was just messin' with you ;). We disagree about how great a physique one can develop without a boatload of drugs.
It is an honest debate and one that will be discussed here on get big.
Now, I agree I would be a "moron" if I just kept attacking you on a personal basis, which I have no intention of doing.
Take it easy GH15, an internet debate is not that serious a deal my friend, but it sure can be fun.
Howard
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Look buddy, I could care less what you do.
You could care less? How much less could you care, since you say you could care less than you currently do?
Me, I couldn't care less.
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You could care less? How much less could you care, since you say you could care less than you currently do?
Me, I couldn't care less.
hahaha epic english teacher howie the pedo is
goatboy good at catchiing mistakes you are
star wars candidizzle watch he must want
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Maybe he did; maybe he didn't. Genetic potential isn't always evident on the surface. Look at Lou Ferrigno. Would anyone really think he could transform himself into a 315-lb monster at age 41, from looking at those pictures of him as a teenager?
As for Duchaine, did he discipline himself and keep that diet on point? Did he make alterations to gain mass and size? Did he experiment with different training regimes?
Frank Zane and Franco Columbu weren't exactly genetic marvels, either; Yet both have multiple Mr. Olympias to their credit. And, (although he only did it once) the guy who supposedly looked like a "swimmer" DEFEATED Arnold Schwarzenegger in competition.
As another Mr O. is fond of saying, "Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder but don't nobody want to lift no heavy-@$$ weight." I'll extend that further.
Don't nobody want to eat that heavy food (day in, day out; week in, week out; month in, month out; year in, year out). Don't nobody want to sleep, instead of party. Don't nobody want to experiement with different training regimes, because (in their mind) there's only one way to train.
Don't nobody want to actually read the TRAINING and DIET articles of muscle magazines and actually give them a try, instead of affixing themselves to the Gossip columns and salivating on the lastest silicone/saline-stuff porn.....ahem....."fitness models".
That may have had more to do with a lack of Duchaine's success in bodybuilding that his allegedly poor genetics.
God damm i'd glad someone thinks like me ;) Barely anyone sticks to their diet or training day in day out or they just drink and do drugs, but they always have excuses.
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already discussed that there would be a bunch of Getbig non believers.
So the solution is
Full blood work done with date before and after show and shown to everyone in a PDF format showing normal (or subnormal testosterone, and IGF levels)....with a show that does both blood testing and a lie detector test.
Slin? Have you ever been able to keep someones fully loaded size on precontest with slin alone? Ive never seen it done ever, maybe you have.
Regardless that he is a man of his word/principle. Its kind of a cant win thing anyway....my advice to him is "Why bother? Someone will come up with some kind of conspiracy theory"
he aint a natural, because he has used (uses) aas, gh and god knows what.
natural = never used gh, aas, prohormones etc (LIFE TIME NATURAL). your kinda logic has totally ruined the word natural.
i think you have some good ideas, mainly your training routine. but you create unrealistic expecations for many regarding growth potential (for naturals). the routine is good, but alot of people doing it are counting fat gain as muscle gain. (main reasons being that they so badly want the weight gain to be muscle only but its not ...secondly: there is a fat% range where fat gains arent that clear; weight is going up but you dont look any fatter..mainly 13-16%...but then bam...suddenly when you go over a certain % you realize that in reality your weight gain was far from all muscle. this is what i think happens to alot of DC program users).
as for for the supplement issue: why is this even being discussed? its not anything new...PROS do not in general use the shit they are marketing. maybe some protein powder now and then but thats about it.