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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Deicide on May 29, 2008, 06:31:01 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_suicides
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They shouldve been in a real war instead of an occupation/murder scheme. Wouldve helped their conscience at least.
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Just goes to show that there's nothing idealistic or poetic about war. It's brutal for both sides.
I feel for the troops even though I am very much against the war. A lot of them are lost young dudes and gals coming back and not knowing how to get their lives back on track.
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Suicide rates from the enemy are far more damaging to us.
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Suicide rates from the enemy are far more damaging to us.
No, 'suicide bombing' is a misnomer. It is a military strategy.
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They shouldve been in a real war instead of an occupation/murder scheme. Wouldve helped their conscience at least.
Please define real war as opposed to Iraq..i mean given ur vast military experience and all.
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They shouldve been in a real war instead of an occupation/murder scheme. Wouldve helped their conscience at least.
You really think it's all a murder scheme? ???
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_suicides
Sad, but the last several years have proven that the American people do not care about our servicemen and women. :'(
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Please define real war as opposed to Iraq..i mean given ur vast military experience and all.
Can I try?
Real War = use of military for a country's self defense including defense of an ally or defense from an imminent attack.
I'm don't see how Iraq fits into that since we attacked the country without provocation or justification.
What's your idea?
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The thread was suicide..these kids are in a real war. This will be used as a political tool..not fix or help anybody. We do alot for PTSD and suicide prevention.....more then anybody else in the public or private sector. Our suicide rates are comparable with the general public at large. This is a problem that was not unexpected and we're doing the best we can. U can't defend it, we're in combat and its going to happen. 28% of those deaths out 115 were non-combat related. We had guys kill themselves in the 90's. Its generally for the same reasons as in the civilian population...money/family-women/ etc.
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The thread was suicide..these kids are in a real war. This will be used as a political tool..not fix or help anybody. We do alot for PTSD and suicide prevention.....more then anybody else in the public or private sector. Our suicide rates are comparable with the general public at large. This is a problem that was not unexpected and we're doing the best we can. U can't defend it, we're in combat and its going to happen. 28% of those deaths out 115 were non-combat related. We had guys kill themselves in the 90's. Its generally for the same reasons as in the civilian population...money/family-women/ etc.
Why are you in the military?
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Why am in the Military...To serve the country. I've been in - in one form or another since 1991.
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Why am in the Military...To serve the country. I've been in - in one form or another since 1991.
But why the military specifically? Why only that path?
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But why the military specifically? Why only that path?
He didnt have the balls to join the peace corps and actually do something to benefit humanity. Right now hes a killer of innocent farmers in Iraq and a few gihadists who are antagonized by him being in their neighborhood anyway....his fault really.
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He didnt have the balls to join the peace corps and actually do something to benefit humanity. Right now hes a killer of innocent farmers in Iraq and a few gihadists who are antagonized by him being in their neighborhood anyway....his fault really.
you really think that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone?
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you really think that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone?
That's interesting. It's also a police matter.
One thing is certain: the US's occupation of Iraq will sustain and create new muslim hate for the West.
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Look,
I don't agree with most of HH6's political views.
However, there is nothing dishonorable about joining the military. And it takes some serious balls to do what they do in Iraq. They took an oath and 99.99% are making good on that oath. Those that strongly don't agree with the war leave the military honorably. Many people make a career out of being in the military. There is nothing wrong with that either. It's an honorable profession.
At some point, many of you haters need to realize that's it's the American Military that is responsible for many of our freedoms we enjoy, namely to criticize the government.
I, for one, am vehemently opposed to the Iraq war/occupation but do not for one second DISGRACE myself by calling an honorable person in the military a murderer. They are doing what they took an oath to do and believe they are protecting our country. No wyou can argue all day long about the justification of the war but you cannot argue the integrity of our fighting men. And i'm not talking about the bad apples you get from any group of people. I'm talking the people in the military who are sacrificing soo much to fight what they believe is a worthwhile fight.
So stop fvcking disgracing yourselves while you sit in your cozy ass homes. You need to get your ass out fo the house and talk with some of the broken shattered families of wounded or KIA's. Tell them they are murderers. Or better yet, go over to Iraq, and get you arm blown off by some farmer/insurgent.
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That's interesting. It's also a police matter.
One thing is certain: the US's occupation of Iraq will sustain and create new muslim hate for the West.
I can see that but I think that hatred will be there no matter whether we are there or not. Id much rather fight the war on their homeland than on ours, but that perpetuates the cycle somewhat so....????
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Look,
I don't agree with most of HH6's political views.
However, there is nothing dishonorable about joining the military. And it takes some serious balls to do what they do in Iraq. They took an oath and 99.99% are making good on that oath. Those that strongly don't agree with the war leave the military honorably. Many people make a career out of being in the military. There is nothing wrong with that either. It's an honorable profession.
At some point, many of you haters need to realize that's it's the American Military that is responsible for many of our freedoms we enjoy, namely to criticize the government.
I, for one, am vehemently opposed to the Iraq war/occupation but do not for one second DISGRACE myself by calling an honorable person in the military a murderer. They are doing what they took an oath to do and believe they are protecting our country. No wyou can argue all day long about the justification of the war but you cannot argue the integrity of our fighting men. And i'm not talking about the bad apples you get from any group of people. I'm talking the people in the military who are sacrificing soo much to fight what they believe is a worthwhile fight.
So stop fvcking disgracing yourselves while you sit in your cozy ass homes. You need to get your ass out fo the house and talk with some of the broken shattered families of wounded or KIA's. Tell them they are murderers.
bump for brutal truth and accuracy
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bump for brutal truth and accuracy
Yeah, I'm fvcking pissed, which isn't often on this board. This whining/calling them murderers is going too far.
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Look,
I don't agree with most of HH6's political views.
However, there is nothing dishonorable about joining the military. And it takes some serious balls to do what they do in Iraq. They took an oath and 99.99% are making good on that oath. Those that strongly don't agree with the war leave the military honorably. Many people make a career out of being in the military. There is nothing wrong with that either. It's an honorable profession.
At some point, many of you haters need to realize that's it's the American Military that is responsible for many of our freedoms we enjoy, namely to criticize the government.
I, for one, am vehemently opposed to the Iraq war/occupation but do not for one second DISGRACE myself by calling an honorable person in the military a murderer. They are doing what they took an oath to do and believe they are protecting our country. No wyou can argue all day long about the justification of the war but you cannot argue the integrity of our fighting men. And i'm not talking about the bad apples you get from any group of people. I'm talking the people in the military who are sacrificing soo much to fight what they believe is a worthwhile fight.
So stop fvcking disgracing yourselves while you sit in your cozy ass homes. You need to get your ass out fo the house and talk with some of the broken shattered families of wounded or KIA's. Tell them they are murderers. Or better yet, go over to Iraq, and get you arm blown off by some farmer/insurgent.
I see your point. I don't agree that we have our freedoms or liberties b/c of the military. We have those b/c of the constitution.
Our country's philosophy and morality for war is predicated on self-defense and not on brutal, unprovoked and discretionary attacks.
The war machine can be used for good (defense) and for evil (conquering).
This is why the reason the US attacked Iraq is important.
We can shield ourselves from criticism by heaping heroic accolades on the men and women of our military--and they do deserve that when they deserve it--but that's a dodge in this case.
Or we can integrate the reason for the US's attack into an analysis of the actions of the military soldiers.
Are the US soldiers defending america? I think that's a fairly obvious 'no.'
Are the US soldiers defending an ally? No. Iraq attacked no one.
How can we still view the soldiers's actions in Iraq as heroic or moral or the like?
Now the tactfulness with which someone tells a soldier or his family that they are doing wrong in Iraq is a different story all together.
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I see your point. I don't agree that we have our freedoms or liberties b/c of the military. We have those b/c of the constitution.
Our country's philosophy and morality for war is predicated on self-defense and not on brutal, unprovoked and discretionary attacks.
The war machine can be used for good (defense) and for evil (conquering).
This is why the reason the US attacked Iraq is important.
We can shield ourselves from criticism by heaping heroic accolades on the men and women of our military--and they do deserve that when they deserve it--but that's a dodge in this case.
Or we can integrate the reason for the US's attack into an analysis of the actions of the military soldiers.
Are the US soldiers defending america? I think that's a fairly obvious 'no.'
Are the US soldiers defending an ally? No. Iraq attacked no one.
How can we still view the soldiers's actions in Iraq as heroic or moral or the like?
Now the tactfulness with which someone tells a soldier or his family that they are doing wrong in Iraq is a different story all together.
Without the military the constitution would have never been made, without the military we might be under nazi/japanese rule. Say what you want but at the end of the day its force that speaks not a piece of paper. As for the rest of your post that somewhat comes back to my other question of whether or not you believe these ppl would leave us alone if we left them alone? I think its pretty obvious that they wouldnt, now could they launch some attack using a large amount of ppl probably not, but could they launch a devestating attack using a few men probably so. Like I said Id much rather fight on their land than on ours, so in my eyes they are defending this land and its citizens. I know its crude but Id rather everyone of the farmer/insurgents die than one more american civilian do to their actions.
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Without the military the constitution would have never been made, without the military we might be under nazi/japanese rule. Say what you want but at the end of the day its force that speaks not a piece of paper. As for the rest of your post that somewhat comes back to my other question of whether or not you believe these ppl would leave us alone if we left them alone? I think its pretty obvious that they wouldnt, now could they launch some attack using a large amount of ppl probably not, but could they launch a devestating attack using a few men probably so. Like I said Id much rather fight on their land than on ours, so in my eyes they are defending this land and its citizens. I know its crude but Id rather everyone of the farmer/insurgents die than one more american civilian do to their actions.
No, our rights and liberties come from the principles that are memorialized in that "piece of paper."
Military force for self defense helps preserve our Union. Surely you can see the difference.
The US must always be vigilant against all enemies. Fine. How does occupying Iraq change that or make the US one bit safer?
If you think the best way to handle the Iraq problem is to grease every Iraq citizen then that is that.
Why do you think it is obvious that the Iraq people will circle the wagons and set out to attack the USA (i.e., suicide)?
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No, our rights and liberties come from the principles that are memorialized in that "piece of paper."
Military force for self defense helps preserve our Union. Surely you can see the difference.
The US must always be vigilant against all enemies. Fine. How does occupying Iraq change that or make the US one bit safer?
If you think the best way to handle the Iraq problem is to grease every Iraq citizen then that is that.
Why do you think it is obvious that the Iraq people will circle the wagons and set out to attack the USA (i.e., suicide)?
Agreed but when the shit hits the fan holding up that piece of paper isnt going to stop somebody...If it wasnt for the military we wouldnt have had the oppurtunity to write that piece of paper and wouldnt be able to defend its priniciples and ideals...correct? Military force was used to create this union many times.
Again do you feel that these farmer/insurgents would just drop their fight if we leave? I say no, this means that we will have to fight them in one place or another does it not? Like I said id rather fight over there where our civilians arent in harms way.
Im not saying that the Iraqi people as a whole will turn and attack the US Im saying that the ppl over there now fighting the US wont just stop if we leave, they will and have in the past bring the fight to us.
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Agreed but when the shit hits the fan holding up that piece of paper isnt going to stop somebody...If it wasnt for the military we wouldnt have had the oppurtunity to write that piece of paper and wouldnt be able to defend its priniciples and ideals...correct? Military force was used to create this union many times.
Ok. But technically military force did not create a thing. It expelled and destroyed but offered nothing into the vacuum. Those principles in the constitution are what created america. The military made that creation possible and is currently a tool for preserving those principles.
This is quickly getting bogged down.
Again do you feel that these farmer/insurgents would just drop their fight if we leave? I say no, this means that we will have to fight them in one place or another does it not? Like I said id rather fight over there where our civilians arent in harms way.
Im not saying that the Iraqi people as a whole will turn and attack the US Im saying that the ppl over there now fighting the US wont just stop if we leave, they will and have in the past bring the fight to us.
What are they going to do? Join hands and swim across the ocean to storm our beaches? They have no conceivable ability to attack the US.
If they try other means, like terrorist attacks, well, that's what the good ol' Dept of Homeland Security/CIA/FBI is for.
What's the alternative? Worry about Iraqi terrorism while occupying Iraq or leave Iraq and secure our country.
Where is it written that attacking Iraqi citizens will prevent an Iraqi citizen from coming to the US to become a suicide bomber?
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I see your point. I don't agree that we have our freedoms or liberties b/c of the military. We have those b/c of the constitution.
And it can be argued that the military protects the entity that executes the constitution. Also the Military has been responsible for stopping aggression abraod that might have changed the course of world history for the worst and protecting our interests as well as our borders.
Our country's philosophy and morality for war is predicated on self-defense and not on brutal, unprovoked and discretionary attacks.
The war machine can be used for good (defense) and for evil (conquering).
No disagreement here.
We can shield ourselves from criticism by heaping heroic accolades on the men and women of our military--and they do deserve that when they deserve it--but that's a dodge in this case.
I don't think so. In my mind giving the those serving their due credit in no way interferes with the criticism of the war.
A man, who believes he is serving his country and fighting terrorists goes to voluntarily and puts himself in harms way, IS a hero in my eyes. The fact the war was wrongly justified is irrelevant regarding his due respect for what he's sacrificed. And to call him a murder is appalling and disgraceful.
Or we can integrate the reason for the US's attack into an analysis of the actions of the military soldiers.
Maybe the actions of the commanding Generals, but I'm talking about the common soldier who has no say in policy or military decisions. Like HH6. Fact is the Generals, maybe for the wrong reasons, do what they can to limit the death of innocent people. I don't think anyone of them are so Evil as to believe they are justified by killing children. (Unless of course you are the Jews committing Genocide by Killing Amalikites)
Are the US soldiers defending america? I think that's a fairly obvious 'no.'
Are the US soldiers defending an ally? No. Iraq attacked no one.
How can we still view the soldiers's actions in Iraq as heroic or moral or the like?
Simple, they are doing what they are ordered to do and doing what they believe is defending America. Your point however is well taken, but remember, this is about calling them murderers.
Now the tactfulness with which someone tells a soldier or his family that they are doing wrong in Iraq is a different story all together.
At this point, in the war, i really believe if they leave so many will die as Iraq plunges into civil war. They are needed there becuase our president made the worse foriegn policy decision in the history of America and we cannot just leave our mess and see hundreds of thousands die as a result.
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Ok. But technically military force did not create a thing. It expelled and destroyed but offered nothing into the vacuum. Those principles in the constitution are what created america. The military made that creation possible and is currently a tool for preserving those principles.
This is quickly getting bogged down.
What are they going to do? Join hands and swim across the ocean to storm our beaches? They have no conceivable ability to attack the US.
If they try other means, like terrorist attacks, well, that's what the good ol' Dept of Homeland Security/CIA/FBI is for.
What's the alternative? Worry about Iraqi terrorism while occupying Iraq or leave Iraq and secure our country.
Where is it written that attacking Iraqi citizens will prevent an Iraqi citizen from coming to the US to become a suicide bomber?
Agreed the military didnt create the constitution but without the military our constitution would have been replaced by another form of dictator/monarchy. So the military is a BIG reason why we have our freedoms today!!!
Again I never said Iraqi ppl would "Join hands and swim across the ocean to storm our beaches" ::) in fact i said that wasnt probable, I said the insurgents (maybe you were confused by the farmer/insurgents comment but that was a comment on war-horses comment) wouldnt stop fighting the US even if we left and you didnt say whether you agree or not?
I never said it would prevent a further attack, in fact if the insurgents there were smarter they wouldnt fight on their land they would attack US resources and establishments, and im sure that there are ppl and groups planning that right now as we converse. However for some reason they feel that they must make a stand in iraq so I would much rather them make a stand there than make a statement over here.
what is the alternative? good question, I think its one of those we're damned if we do and we're damned if we dont kinda things.
The war on terror will never be worth it to some b/c it does not have tangible results, you never see the number of lives saved. The war in Iraq has very concrete consequences however so the cost/benefits are hard if not impossible to see.
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you really think that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone?
They would turn on their own governments; the US isn't even their prime target.
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They would turn on their own governments; the US isn't even their prime target.
True.
And as they turn to their own governments..... How many will die because we left a mess we created?
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They would turn on their own governments; the US isn't even their prime target.
how do you explain the terrorist attacks on US establishments and resources before the war started?
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I apologize for using the term murderer. Iraq was and is no threat to us. We were suposed to be in afghanastan until bush wanted a 51st state in the middle east as his legacy.......
It makes me sick to see kids dying for no reason at all. Those sunnis and shias will fight a 1000yrs after were gone...its a way of life to them.
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how do you explain the terrorist attacks on US establishments and resources before the war started?
Mate, read a history book; blowback; Iran, bases in Saudi Arabia, Sanctions on Iraq for ten years; the US government killed 500,000 Iraqis under the Clinton administration.
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Mate, read a history book; blowback; Iran, bases in Saudi Arabia, Sanctions on Iraq for ten years; the US government killed 500,000 Iraqis under the Clinton administration.
mate? I thought you were american? That somewhat goes against your statement that the US isnt a primary target...you stated that the US wasnt a primary target, but if that were true then we wouldnt have had so many attacks on US.
Your really think that they will just leave us alone if we pack up our shit and leave? that is even if they turn on the government, after one side wins you dont think there will be any terrorist attacks on the US?
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Mate, read a history book; blowback; Iran, bases in Saudi Arabia, Sanctions on Iraq for ten years; the US government killed 500,000 Iraqis under the Clinton administration.
what ??? you just answered his question and said the US is the prime target...that is what blowback is, and what left wing nutbook said the US killed 500k people in Iraq ::)
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mate? I thought you were american? That somewhat goes against your statement that the US isnt a primary target...you stated that the US wasnt a primary target, but if that were true then we wouldnt have had so many attacks on US.
Your really think that they will just leave us alone if we pack up our shit and leave? that is even if they turn on the government, after one side wins you dont think there will be any terrorist attacks on the US?
The religious divisions of Islam and the Middle East are such that if the US were to disengage itself from the region they would just be killing each other; and that means stopping support for Israel. They are very insular societies. Please don't tell me you think they attack the US because it is 'rich and free'?
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what ??? you just answered his question and said the US is the prime target...that is what blowback is, and what left wing nutbook said the US killed 500k people in Iraq ::)
No, US disengagement would make them fight each other.
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The religious divisions of Islam and the Middle East are such that if the US were to disengage itself from the region they would just be killing each other; and that means stopping support for Israel. They are very insular societies. Please don't tell me you think they attack the US because it is 'rich and free'?
No but i do think its very ignorant to think that these ppl would stop attacking the US if we just left. Do you really think there isnt resentment towards the US because it is so prosperous? you really think that there wouldnt be any groups out there that wouldnt still attack the US?
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No but i do think its very ignorant to think that these ppl would stop attacking the US if we just left. Do you really think there isnt resentment towards the US because it is so prosperous? you really think that there wouldnt be any groups out there that wouldnt still attack the US?
The rest of the world is boggled down with its own problems; without the issue of occupation we can be quite sure they wouldn't care aboout the US' prosperity (which is dwindling even as we write this). Where are the terror groups attacking Australia? They are wealthy and prosperous as well.
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The rest of the world is boggled down with its own problems; without the issue of occupation we can be quite sure they wouldn't care aboout the US' prosperity (which is dwindling even as we write this). Where are the terror groups attacking Australia? They are wealthy and prosperous as well.
while im sure the majority of the world would mind its own business and deal with its own problems you think the radical groups in iraq right now would just stop and say ahhh you know what fuck it.
yes but they arent the big dick at the table we are.
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while im sure the majority of the world would mind its own business and deal with its own problems you think the radical groups in iraq right now would just stop and say ahhh you know what fuck it.
yes but they arent the big dick at the table we are.
Because they don't constantly intervene and meddle in everyone's affairs; 700+ military bases, 130 countries...it's seems plainly obvious.
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and just so you know...australia is a target as well
http://www.vialls.com/terrorists/melbourne.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1873090.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/29/1054177672945.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/war-on-terror/asio-chief-warns-of-attacks-in-australia/2005/10/13/1128796656176.html
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and just so you know...australia is a target as well
http://www.vialls.com/terrorists/melbourne.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1873090.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/29/1054177672945.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/war-on-terror/asio-chief-warns-of-attacks-in-australia/2005/10/13/1128796656176.html
Because they don't constantly intervene and meddle in everyone's affairs; 700+ military bases, 130 countries...it's seems plainly obvious.
guess that doesnt hold up huh?
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guess that doesnt hold up huh?
Was Australia a target before it became a member of the 'coallition of the willing'? No. It allied itself with the invaders.
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Look,
I don't agree with most of HH6's political views.
However, there is nothing dishonorable about joining the military. And it takes some serious balls to do what they do in Iraq. They took an oath and 99.99% are making good on that oath. Those that strongly don't agree with the war leave the military honorably. Many people make a career out of being in the military. There is nothing wrong with that either. It's an honorable profession.
At some point, many of you haters need to realize that's it's the American Military that is responsible for many of our freedoms we enjoy, namely to criticize the government.
I, for one, am vehemently opposed to the Iraq war/occupation but do not for one second DISGRACE myself by calling an honorable person in the military a murderer. They are doing what they took an oath to do and believe they are protecting our country. No wyou can argue all day long about the justification of the war but you cannot argue the integrity of our fighting men. And i'm not talking about the bad apples you get from any group of people. I'm talking the people in the military who are sacrificing soo much to fight what they believe is a worthwhile fight.
So stop fvcking disgracing yourselves while you sit in your cozy ass homes. You need to get your ass out fo the house and talk with some of the broken shattered families of wounded or KIA's. Tell them they are murderers. Or better yet, go over to Iraq, and get you arm blown off by some farmer/insurgent.
**Applause**
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At some point, many of you haters need to realize that's it's the American Military that is responsible for many of our freedoms we enjoy, namely to criticize the government.
THis is what is known in some circles as a conclusory statement
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Was Australia a target before it became a member of the 'coallition of the willing'? No. It allied itself with the invaders.
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page7930.asp
what about france and any number of other countries the islamic terrorist have performed acts of terror in? face it bro your proving my point there will always be a reason for these ppl to attack the US b/c they will justify it in anyway they can.
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http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page7930.asp
what about france and any number of other countries the islamic terrorist have performed acts of terror in? face it bro your proving my point there will always be a reason for these ppl to attack the US b/c they will justify it in anyway they can.
France? Are you kidding me? Decades of imperialism in Islamic countries has earned France great enmity amongst Muslims. UK as well.
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France? Are you kidding me? Decades of imperialism in Islamic countries has earned France great enmity amongst Muslims. UK as well.
LOL ok well apparently the entire world has wronged the islamic community in some way so we are all targets, so i guess the war is justifiable then? there will always be a reason for them to attack us, making us a prime target like i said it goes against your first statement. They wont stop if we leave...
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LOL ok well apparently the entire world has wronged the islamic community in some way so we are all targets, so i guess the war is justifiable then? there will always be a reason for them to attack us, making us a prime target like i said it goes against your first statement. They wont stop if we leave...
tony, if we left theyd turn on eachother full force. However we have opened a can of worms in that they will have the chance to hold the USA in their sights forever......and justifyiably so.
The point is there will never be a "Right" time to leave. It will only get worse as we spend resources we dont have to build their country while we destroy our own..... :-\
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LOL ok well apparently the entire world has wronged the islamic community in some way so we are all targets, so i guess the war is justifiable then? there will always be a reason for them to attack us, making us a prime target like i said it goes against your first statement. They wont stop if we leave...
I agree. They hate us. Pure and simple. Wouldn't matter if we removed every armed forces member from the region. They would still hate us.
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tony, if we left theyd turn on eachother full force. However we have opened a can of worms in that they will have the chance to hold the USA in their sights forever......and justifyiably so.
The point is there will never be a "Right" time to leave. It will only get worse as we spend resources we dont have to build their country while we destroy our own..... :-\
maybe they would turn on each other but what happens when one side wins out???
Iono if its justifyiable so b/c we could go back and find a situation that we could say the islamic community wronged the christian or any other community for that reason to insight a war just like they do sooo.....sooner or later one side is going to have to let something go b/c it will never end.
now the bold is something i can agree with...like i said earlier its a damned if we do and a damned if we dont situation
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interesting, a very close friend (M.D.) works in the VA system treating PTSD and traumatic brain injured.......he'd surely disagree with your "cheery" assessment.
NT
is that M.D. a pychiatrist???? b/c thats the treatment that these veterans need, a strictly medical doctor is not properly equiped to handle their problems
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We're doing as much as we can....but I tell u what instead of a bunch of bullshit social programs we can double the budget of the VA.
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A few things...
And it can be argued that the military protects the entity that executes the constitution.
No, the military is an entitity whose job is to protect the integritity of the territory's borders.
Also the Military has been responsible for stopping aggression abraod that might have changed the course of world history for the worst and protecting our interests as well as our borders.
No, that is not protecting, that is called aggression, invasion, occupation and state terrorism.
A man, who believes he is serving his country and fighting terrorists goes to voluntarily and puts himself in harms way, IS a hero in my eyes.
Personal opinion. I personally think exactly the opposite (not that you'd care any way). Any way, what happens when a man "who believes he is serving his country" is actually not helping his country? What should he do?
The fact the war was wrongly justified is irrelevant regarding his due respect for what he's sacrificed. And to call him a murder is appalling and disgraceful.
Noone is calling them murderers. Although if they believe they are not doing the jobs they were trained to do (defending the integrity of the US borders) then you should definitely get up and LEEEEEAAAAAAAVVVVVVVVEEE EEEEEE!!!! The same way you'd leave a job as a lawyer if they had you mopping the floors and cleaning the windows of the 63rd floor on a scaffold on your first day.
Maybe the actions of the commanding Generals, but I'm talking about the common soldier who has no say in policy or military decisions. Like HH6. Fact is the Generals, maybe for the wrong reasons, do what they can to limit the death of innocent people.
That is not true either. When the invasion of Irak, for example, was being planned out, the majority of the generals knew there was nothing there (they get CIA information too). What would've been of most benefit for the USA as a country would've been for them to get up and go public with their discontent. They did not do it because the US military has become a mercenary army of the corporations.
Simple, they are doing what they are ordered to do and doing what they believe is defending America.
And how are they defending America?
At this point, in the war, i really believe if they leave so many will die as Iraq plunges into civil war. They are needed there becuase our president made the worse foriegn policy decision in the history of America and we cannot just leave our mess and see hundreds of thousands die as a result.
The fact of the matter is that it was not only Bush. I mean, let's be realistic here. Wih Bush Big Oil took control of the military and they let greed make the worst decision in modern military times. People didn't just get up and go public with their discontent because, let's face it, all of these Washington bureaucrats want a 6-figure job in the corporate world after theit "public" jigg is up.
Let's face it, there are some really screwed up killers in our military, just as there are screwed up killers in American society nowadays. Do we call them heroes because they're "defending" something? Nope.
I'm fairly sure that this dichotomy has something to do with the hight rates of suicides amongst our soldiers.
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I guess intervening in Bosnia to stop the genocide...or in Somalia should have been accomplished by the boy scouts then. The war was to secure oil....and to make sure Saddam wasn't ever a threat or a sponsor of terror.
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A few things...
No, the military is an entitity whose job is to protect the integritity of the territory's borders.
That kind of thinking would have had Japan ruling China an the Pacific (Hawaii was not a state yet) and a Hitler ruled Europe and possible Asia.
But you know best. ;)
(I am very opposed to the Iraq war, by the way)
No, that is not protecting, that is called aggression, invasion, occupation and state terrorism.
Was D-Day State terrorism? How about Leyte? Iwo Jima? Sicily? Inchon?
That's what i was talking about.
Personal opinion. I personally think exactly the opposite (not that you'd care any way). Any way, what happens when a man "who believes he is serving his country" is actually not helping his country? What should he do?
People aren't Heros if they fight for something they believe is a just cause IF you don;t agree with that cause?
So if i apply some of your other thoughts, then those who fought in WW2 were invovled in State Terrorism and should be recognized for their sacrifices?
What should he do? If he is enlisted, resign, get an honorable discharge in this instance. If it's like Genocide by the nazi's then desert.
Noone is calling them murderers. Although if they believe they are not doing the jobs they were trained to do (defending the integrity of the US borders) then you should definitely get up and LEEEEEAAAAAAAVVVVVVVVEEE EEEEEE!!!! The same way you'd leave a job as a lawyer if they had you mopping the floors and cleaning the windows of the 63rd floor on a scaffold on your first day.
You should read the posts above. Someone was calling them murders. HTH. ;)
And being in the military is different from having a JOB. If the military ran like a job, we'd have been conquered long ago becuase our army would be a joke. You obviously have little idea or knowledge about how a good military works and only see things from the view point of your ideas not understanding at all how a country's strong military protect them in peace as well as war.
Yeah, just think, Hawaii gets attacked, or some bad battle happens and people just walk off their post and say "I quit"
That is not true either. When the invasion of Irak, for example, was being planned out, the majority of the generals knew there was nothing there (they get CIA information too). What would've been of most benefit for the USA as a country would've been for them to get up and go public with their discontent. They did not do it because the US military has become a mercenary army of the corporations.
You are partially preaching to the choir here. But again, concerning Generals speaking out prior, that's not the oath they took to begin with when they signed up, which again shows your lack of understanding about how a competent military works inside the frame work of our government.
Besides we are talking HH6 mainly.
And how are they defending America?
Amen brother!
The fact of the matter is that it was not only Bush. I mean, let's be realistic here. Wih Bush Big Oil took control of the military and they let greed make the worst decision in modern military times. People didn't just get up and go public with their discontent because, let's face it, all of these Washington bureaucrats want a 6-figure job in the corporate world after theit "public" jigg is up.
Let's face it, there are some really screwed up killers in our military, just as there are screwed up killers in American society nowadays. Do we call them heroes because they're "defending" something? Nope.
I'm fairly sure that this dichotomy has something to do with the hight rates of suicides amongst our soldiers.
The suicides rates is a good questions. But I agree their are bad apples every where and there are sure to be scum bags in the military as well. But as whole, 99% of them are honorable. I know many, have been around many all my lives. they are harding working, committed people who raise families and are just doing what they believe is right.
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That kind of thinking would have had Japan ruling China an the Pacific (Hawaii was not a state yet) and a Hitler ruled Europe and possible Asia.
But you know best. ;)
(I am very opposed to the Iraq war, by the way)
Was D-Day State terrorism? How about Leyte? Iwo Jima? Sicily? Inchon?
It's simple: in WWII the US government were implicitly asked for military help from the British, French and other European governments to end the German ocupation. No one asked us to act on Irak. That was a complete and utter disgrace. An act of aggression. And the US military has been involved in many act of aggression. It is now time for all these generals and admirals to demand to know 2 thing when asked to invade a sovereign country: 1. What is the reason why we must attack another country and 2. What is the REAL threat that country poses to our borders. If the executive branch fails to answer positively to any of the questions the president is publicly told to GO FUCK HIMSELF. The kids go back to the farm and colleges and noone moves a fucking finger.
People aren't Heros if they fight for something they believe is a just cause IF you don;t agree with that cause?
That's fucking bullshit. Nowadays anyone's a hero. To me a hero is a person who tells the coporate lobbyist that we're not invading another country to turn off the spiggots and know that he runs the risk of being assasinated and left without a dime because of that decision. Someone who grabs a gun and shoots someone because they say "I hate Amrica" is a fucking idiot.
So if i apply some of your other thoughts, then those who fought in WW2 were invovled in State Terrorism and should be recognized for their sacrifices?
What should he do? If he is enlisted, resign, get an honorable discharge in this instance. If it's like Genocide by the nazi's then desert.
Again, the WWII argument. Look, if you can't tell the difference between what we did in WWII and what we've done from the Korean war on... I ain't gonna tell you. You figure it out.
You should read the posts above. Someone was calling them murders. HTH. ;)
And, like in American society, some of them are. What is the fucking deal?
And being in the military is different from having a JOB. If the military ran like a job, we'd have been conquered long ago becuase our army would be a joke. You obviously have little idea or knowledge about how a good military works and only see things from the view point of your ideas not understanding at all how a country's strong military protect them in peace as well as war.
The key word is protect, not attack. You seem to be unable to tell the difference.
Yeah, just think, Hawaii gets attacked, or some bad battle happens and people just walk off their post and say "I quit"
Again, you're mixing apples and oranges here. Pearl Harbour was an act of AGGRESSION from another country. Our response to it was JUSTIFIED. Out attack on Irak, Viet Nam, North Korea, Grenada, Panama, etc. was UNJUSTIFIED. CA-FUCKING-PISCI?
You are partially preaching to the choir here. But again, concerning Generals speaking out prior, that's not the oath they took to begin with when they signed up, which again shows your lack of understanding about how a competent military works inside the frame work of our government.
NUMBER 1 QUESTION ANY SOLDIER HAS TO ASK HIM/HERSELF WHEN CALLED INTO DUTY: How am I protecting the border of the USA? If the superior fails to answer the question, you LLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAA AVVVVVEEEEE. If you stay you are a de facto mercenary. Which is what the US military has become.
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It's simple: in WWII the US government were implicitly asked for military help from the British, French and other European governments to end the German ocupation. No one asked us to act on Irak. That was a complete and utter disgrace. An act of aggression. And the US military has been involved in many act of aggression. It is now time for all these generals and admirals to demand to know 2 thing when asked to invade a sovereign country: 1. What is the reason why we must attack another country and 2. What is the REAL threat that country poses to our borders. If the executive branch fails to answer positively to any of the questions the president is publicly told to GO FUCK HIMSELF. The kids go back to the farm and colleges and noone moves a fucking finger.
Sounds great, very idealistic, and very naive, However, that's not how a good military works. People follow orders. The politicians must be held accountable for their actions in this case. The way you view the military, is how countries end up getting invaded.
Again, the WWII argument. Look, if you can't tell the difference between what we did in WWII and what we've done from the Korean war on... I ain't gonna tell you. You figure it out.
I'm not arguing that. You should go back a re-read.
And, like in American society, some of them are. What is the fucking deal?
Again, instead of your mouth overloading you ass, you should go back a re-read.
The key word is protect, not attack. You seem to be unable to tell the difference.
I think you are one of these cry baby libs, you have no understanding of reality and unless someone totally agrees with your idealistic, fantasy view of the world, you label them. Have you not read, my views on the war? Or is that been grouped up with your miss cue on War-Horse calling HH6 a murderer?
You seem no different than the resident neo-cons who throw the "lib" stereo types around as much as a racist does with blacks. (only in reverse)
Re-read the post. I'm talking about how a military is ran. Your idea or what you are suggesting is plain stupid and shows your ignorance and how some of your views are anchored in fantasy land.
I'm not one that advocates invading sovereign nations unprovoked.[/b][/u] Do you get that? Should i type 300 times in a 24pt size font, so maybe you'll read it?
That's fucking bullshit. Nowadays anyone's a hero. To me a hero is a person who tells the coporate lobbyist that we're not invading another country to turn off the spiggots and know that he runs the risk of being assasinated and left without a dime because of that decision. Someone who grabs a gun and shoots someone because they say "I hate Amrica" is a fucking idiot.
Is that what happened? they said "I hate America"? Is that what going on in Iraq? Is that what's the insurgency all about. People voicing their hate for America and us killing them? ::)
At this point it's far more complicated than that. Of Course, none of this had to happen if BUSH didn't make the worse foreign policy decision in the history of the presidency.
Again, you're mixing apples and oranges here. Pearl Harbour was an act of AGGRESSION from another country. Our response to it was JUSTIFIED. Out attack on Irak, Viet Nam, North Korea, Grenada, Panama, etc. was UNJUSTIFIED. CA-FUCKING-PISCI?
North Korea? They attacked first. Aside from that, I agree.
CA-FUCKING-PISCI? What does that mean?
NUMBER 1 QUESTION ANY SOLDIER HAS TO ASK HIM/HERSELF WHEN CALLED INTO DUTY: How am I protecting the border of the USA? If the superior fails to answer the question, you LLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAA AVVVVVEEEEE. If you stay you are a de facto mercenary. Which is what the US military has become.
No you don't leave. You took an oath. If you didn't want to accept the oath, then you shouldn't have joined in the first place.
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If a person joins the military believing he will protect our country and instead sees an occupation and friends blown up for no good reason.....he should speak out!! If he does he is a HERO!!
Being recruited for a noble reason is not the same as being used to occupy and terrorize another nation. It is your job to humanity to be honest so that upon your last breath you may have a half a chance at mercy.
The big picture is that we are to answer to GOD and not George Bush.....
Slapper is right.
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If a person joins the military believing he will protect our country and instead sees an occupation and friends blown up for no good reason.....he should speak out!! If he does he is a HERO!!
Being recruited for a noble reason is not the same as being used to occupy and terrorize another nation. It is your job to humanity to be honest so that upon your last breath you may have a half a chance at mercy.
The big picture is that we are to answer to GOD and not George Bush.....
Slapper is right.
Disagree.
Being recruited is irrelevant. They chose to sign up. They signed up because they believed we were fighting terrorism, the terrorism that killed 3000 people. When considering the military personal, Iraq is not relevant, they are there because they believe they are doing good, they believe they disposed of a brutal dictator and are establishing democracy. All of which are noble causes. Now, you and I don't see Iraq as a noble cause. We see it as a strategic grab for regional power at the expense of the lives of Iraqis and Americans.
We are not terrorizing Iraq. We are occupying it and fighting an insurgency. We are not fighting people because they say they hate America. And these fighting men and women who would risk their lives to save our nestled asses, deserve credit even though they are there on what we believe are false pretenses.
Many are quitting the military and many are speaking out. However, when you are in the military, to be effective, you do not allow involvement in politics and allow it's personal to speak out against it. I know it doesn't "fit into" those ideals that you and slapper think they should, but it's how a strong military, which helps maintain peace, continues. If the soldiers feels that strongly about it like that guy in Hawaii, then good for him, although he is breaking his oath and leaving his comrades hanging and if he's string enough to face the consequences of his actions then good for him again. But, regardless, he should go to prison. It's just the facts of life, War-horse, the military isn't a democracy. The minute it is, it becomes ineffective.
You should be thankful, to any person in the military, who signed up to lay down his/her life for you. It doesn't matter if the cuase is just in your eyes or not. It's the politicians who send them to unneeded wars that should be hanged.
That's my point. That's all. Other than running the military like Mac Donald's would be totally stupid.
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True. They signed up and now they owe. Doesnt mean they wont regret when they see it was all a sham. Im sure the suicides speak for themselves.
Its a mess and we need to get out. There will never be a right time to do it. They want us out badly.
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True. They signed up and now they owe. Doesnt mean they wont regret when they see it was all a sham. Im sure the suicides speak for themselves.
Its a mess and we need to get out. There will never be a right time to do it. They want us out badly.
Some want us out and some don't. there are many that will gain from us being there, while most probably could give a rats ass because all they really want is to live live peaceful fruitful lives.
We leave things will get really bad. At some point, you are right we may need to just cut our loses. It's still looking like it will never be stable until the next brutal dictator takes power.
The people that want us out are using religion and ideology to rally their cause. In the end, it's about an opportunity to take power. Don't kid yourself. That's where the real shams in the world are.
As far as people regretting. Some will. Many won't.
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Look, If i get to start calling the shots as opposed to the DOD then some of u idiots would be in alot of trouble. Do u honestly think we're going to start questioning the orders of the President, especially with Iraq. Sorry Slapper, we doin't work that way. I won't execute an order that is unethical, immoral or illiegal. Congress voted for the war, we had lawful orders and we invaded. Sorry u don't like the case for war, sorry Saddam didn't have the wmd's. He's gone, we control the oil and bases in the Middle East. Regardless of my feelings on the war, we had our orders and we went.
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Look, If i get to start calling the shots as opposed to the DOD then some of u idiots would be in alot of trouble. Do u honestly think we're going to start questioning the orders of the President, especially with Iraq. Sorry Slapper, we doin't work that way. I won't execute an order that is unethical, immoral or illiegal. Congress voted for the war, we had lawful orders and we invaded. Sorry u don't like the case for war, sorry Saddam didn't have the wmd's. He's gone, we control the oil and bases in the Middle East. Regardless of my feelings on the war, we had our orders and we went.
Slapper thinks that in an Army, if anytime you don't agree, then you should have the option to walk off. Otherwise, in the case of Iraq you are a de-facto mercenary
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Yeah well if I'm a merc i must have missed the 600-1000 a day i was supposed to get. Hey I've said I don't agree with the war. More on how we fought in the beginning etc. I'm not as opposed to it as some on the board, and I won't air our dirty laundry or bash the country, but Bush made a mistake.
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Well slow office day, everybody is on the road so I better grab a haircut in keeping with my Nazi standards. ;)
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..Again I never said Iraqi ppl would "Join hands and swim across the ocean to storm our beaches" ::) in fact i said that wasnt probable, I said the insurgents (maybe you were confused by the farmer/insurgents comment but that was a comment on war-horses comment) wouldnt stop fighting the US even if we left and you didnt say whether you agree or not?
So the US leaves Iraq and the farmers/insurgents still want to fight the US? Can you see why I jokingly asked if they'd join hands to make that fighting intention a reality? How else would they fight us unless they came to america somehow?
I never said it would prevent a further attack, in fact if the insurgents there were smarter they wouldnt fight on their land they would attack US resources and establishments, and im sure that there are ppl and groups planning that right now as we converse. However for some reason they feel that they must make a stand in iraq so I would much rather them make a stand there than make a statement over here.
what is the alternative? good question, I think its one of those we're damned if we do and we're damned if we dont kinda things.
The war on terror will never be worth it to some b/c it does not have tangible results, you never see the number of lives saved. The war in Iraq has very concrete consequences however so the cost/benefits are hard if not impossible to see.
The insurgents are Iraqi people that don't play ball with the puppet government installed by the invading US forces. As long as we are there, they'll be there.
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There are alot less of em....the war as it stands now is winding down. It could heat up...but what we're seeing is that the locals are losing interest and AQI is finding things harder to do.
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There are alot less of em....the war as it stands now is winding down. It could heat up...but what we're seeing is that the locals are losing interest and AQI is finding things harder to do.
If one of our checks bounce on them, itll heat up again.
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They get paid in cash... :P
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Sounds great, very idealistic, and very naive, However, that's not how a good military works. People follow orders. The politicians must be held accountable for their actions in this case. The way you view the military, is how countries end up getting invaded.
I'm not arguing that. You should go back a re-read.
Again, instead of your mouth overloading you ass, you should go back a re-read.
I think you are one of these cry baby libs, you have no understanding of reality and unless someone totally agrees with your idealistic, fantasy view of the world, you label them. Have you not read, my views on the war? Or is that been grouped up with your miss cue on War-Horse calling HH6 a murderer?
You seem no different than the resident neo-cons who throw the "lib" stereo types around as much as a racist does with blacks. (only in reverse)
Re-read the post. I'm talking about how a military is ran. Your idea or what you are suggesting is plain stupid and shows your ignorance and how some of your views are anchored in fantasy land.
I'm not one that advocates invading sovereign nations unprovoked. Do you get that? Should i type 300 times in a 24pt size font, so maybe you'll read it?
Is that what happened? they said "I hate America"? Is that what going on in Iraq? Is that what's the insurgency all about. People voicing their hate for America and us killing them? ::)
At this point it's far more complicated than that. Of Course, none of this had to happen if BUSH didn't make the worse foreign policy decision in the history of the presidency.
North Korea? They attacked first. Aside from that, I agree.
CA-FUCKING-PISCI? What does that mean?
No you don't leave. You took an oath. If you didn't want to accept the oath, then you shouldn't have joined in the first place.
Ok, let me put it in simple terms 'cause I get the feeling you have A.D.D. and it seems as though everything I write goes right through you. What is the difference between aggression and defense? If you commit an act of aggression you are not defending yourself. Do you understand this simple fact?
Also, when you military people signed up for paintball on Saturdays and took the "oath"... To what or who exactly did you promise your loyalty?
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Ok, let me put it in simple terms 'cause I get the feeling you have A.D.D. and it seems as though everything I write goes right through you. What is the difference between aggression and defense? If you commit an act of aggression you are not defending yourself. Do you understand this simple fact?
Also, when you military people signed up for paintball on Saturdays and took the "oath"... To what or who exactly did you promise your loyalty?
They didn't take an "Oath" to play paint ball. So participation is optional. they did take an oath to follow the commander and chief who also got the green light form congress so participation is not optional.
ADD has nothing to do with either of those points. So i could be George Washington or Charles Mansion. Nothing will change that.
Now, I Agree with just about everything you say regarding the war except the right of the soldiers to walk off.
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Ok, let me put it in simple terms 'cause I get the feeling you have A.D.D. and it seems as though everything I write goes right through you. What is the difference between aggression and defense? If you commit an act of aggression you are not defending yourself. Do you understand this simple fact?
Also, when you military people signed up for paintball on Saturdays and took the "oath"... To what or who exactly did you promise your loyalty?
Paintball..is that what u think its like..you're a real piece of shit. U have no concept of duty, or country or anything. Ur a worthless human being...fucking paintball. Asshole.
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Paintball..is that what u think its like..you're a real piece of shit. U have no concept of duty, or country or anything. Ur a worthless human being...fucking paintball. Asshole.
lol... meltdown. Don't worry dude, you're a legend
.... in your own mind. ::)
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Paintball..is that what u think its like..you're a real piece of shit. U have no concept of duty, or country or anything. Ur a worthless human being...fucking paintball. Asshole.
Meltdown! We'll do it tomorrow! Hahaha.
Look, GI Joe wannabe, "concept of duty", concept of "country" and all the terms you talk about are all relative terms, meaning they mean different things to different people. It's only when you profess a one-dimesional, pseudo-fascist doctrine that attaches these relative terms to a specific group of people or geographical area that they then take onto a very dangerous dimension.
Now, go drown in you own vomit.
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They didn't take an "Oath" to play paint ball. So participation is optional. they did take an oath to follow the commander and chief who also got the green light form congress so participation is not optional.
ADD has nothing to do with either of those points. So i could be George Washington or Charles Mansion. Nothing will change that.
Now, I Agree with just about everything you say regarding the war except the right of the soldiers to walk off.
You did not answer my question.
Isn't there a clause in the military code that states something to the effect that if an order given by a superior goes against the US Constitution the soldier is cleared to break the oath?
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You did not answer my question.
Isn't there a clause in the military code that states something to the effect that if an order given by a superior goes against the US Constitution the soldier is cleared to break the oath?
No. The UCMJ has a provision that says a service member has no duty to obey an unlawful order.
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No. The UCMJ has a provision that says a service member has no duty to obey an unlawful order.
Thank you OzMo!
In that case, what is it exactly that these people are promising blind loyalty to (or what)?
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No. The UCMJ has a provision that says a service member has no duty to obey an unlawful order.
Some would point out that everything hitler did was legal. Everything his people did in those death camps was legal. he just changed the laws to some pretty horrible things.
So "unlawful order" doesn't mean much.
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Thank you OzMo!
In that case, what is it exactly that these people are promising blind loyalty to (or what)?
That was BeachBum. I am OzmO. You can tell who is who on the title bar of each post. (in the blue part) It says posted by: "XXXX" And UCMJ = Uniform Code of Military Justice. Don't think that is in the constitution. Perhaps you should pull up the "oath" they take. Perhaps it's in conflict with the US constitution and no one has ever caught it in 200+ years. You could hold a press conference and show us all what you found. Or just post it here. ;)
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Like 240 said. The constitution doesnt mean shit in america. Its being overwritten by patriot acts that turn a soldiers chance of being honorable, into a blip on the radar.
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That was BeachBum. I am OzmO. You can tell who is who on the title bar of each post. (in the blue part) It says posted by: "XXXX" And UCMJ = Uniform Code of Military Justice. Don't think that is in the constitution. Perhaps you should pull up the "oath" they take. Perhaps it's in conflict with the US constitution and no one has ever caught it in 200+ years. You could hold a press conference and show us all what you found. Or just post it here. ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know that! I was merely poking a little (harmless) fun by thanking you for something HE answered. The question was directed at you though...
As far as your comment goes... let's just say A Few Good Men. Ok, so we can therefore say, with a high degree of certainty, that their (the soldier's) oath, their loyalty, is promised to a bunch of superiors who, depending on who governs the White House, may or may not put them in harms way or in places where national security per se is not really an issue. Hence their loyalty IS NOT to the US Constitution. That's fucking great.
And by the way, killing innocent civilians is indeed a crime in the Constitution. So is torture. Then again we didn't really torture at Abhu Ghraib, it was the secret service, although it was two of the army tweety birds who took the blame for it though. Real patriots for doing that.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know that! I was merely poking a little (harmless) fun by thanking you for something HE answered. The question was directed at you though...
As far as your comment goes... let's just say A Few Good Men. Ok, so we can therefore say, with a high degree of certainty, that their (the soldier's) oath, their loyalty, is promised to a bunch of superiors who, depending on who governs the White House, may or may not put them in harms way or in places where national security per se is not really an issue. Hence their loyalty IS NOT to the US Constitution. That's fucking great.
And by the way, killing innocent civilians is indeed a crime in the Constitution. So is torture. Then again we didn't really torture at Abhu Ghraib, it was the secret service, although it was two of the army tweety birds who took the blame for it though. Real patriots for doing that.
I concur. :)
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Meltdown! We'll do it tomorrow! Hahaha.
Look, GI Joe wannabe, "concept of duty", concept of "country" and all the terms you talk about are all relative terms, meaning they mean different things to different people. It's only when you profess a one-dimesional, pseudo-fascist doctrine that attaches these relative terms to a specific group of people or geographical area that they then take onto a very dangerous dimension.
Now, go drown in you own vomit.
Look douche..u have no idea what it means to serve. Look if u really have a problem, go up to a recruiter and say so..visit ur local militray bases and explain why u feel that their oath is worthless and all they really do is play paintball. "pseudo-fascist doctrine"...u really wish this was the 1960's don't u...u really wish this was vietnam don't u. I bet u have the lib douchebag playbook open right now don't u...ur a worthless American...I'm sorry that u and Calmus don't count for anything and u feel less then a man...look when ur balls drop..enlist and u can find out yourself whats going on overseas..until then, I'd invite u and Calmus and warpussy to shut the hell up.
"
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Look douche..u have no idea what it means to serve. Look if u really have a problem, go up to a recruiter and say so..visit ur local militray bases and explain why u feel that their oath is worthless and all they really do is play paintball. "pseudo-fascist doctrine"...u really wish this was the 1960's don't u...u really wish this was vietnam don't u. I bet u have the lib douchebag playbook open right now don't u...ur a worthless American...I'm sorry that u and Calmus don't count for anything and u feel less then a man...look when ur balls drop..enlist and u can find out yourself whats going on overseas..until then, I'd invite u and Calmus and warpussy to shut the hell up.
"
Hahahahaha. Too Easy. ;D Being wrong all the time makes you melt,hh6
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Not a melt douchebag..i wish u would move and leave my country..u do not but bash it..so please leave. Pretty damm simple isn't it. U and ur 3 man group jerk each other off over Bush all day but can't come up with anything original to try and fix the problems. U've done nothing for the country...kinda like ur socialist messiah.