Soldier Suicide Rates at all time high: yeah, Iraq is a great thing...

[Deicide]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_suicides

[War-Horse]

They shouldve been in a real war instead of an occupation/murder scheme.    Wouldve helped their conscience at least.

[Camel Jockey]

Just goes to show that there's nothing idealistic or poetic about war. It's brutal for both sides.

I feel for the troops even though I am very much against the war. A lot of them are lost young dudes and gals coming back and not knowing how to get their lives back on track.

[OzmO]

Suicide rates from the enemy are far more damaging to us.

[Deicide]

Suicide rates from the enemy are far more damaging to us.

No, 'suicide bombing' is a misnomer. It is a military strategy.

[headhuntersix]

They shouldve been in a real war instead of an occupation/murder scheme.    Wouldve helped their conscience at least.

Please define real war as opposed to Iraq..i mean given ur vast military experience and all.

[OzmO]

They shouldve been in a real war instead of an occupation/murder scheme.    Wouldve helped their conscience at least.

You really think it's all a murder scheme?   

[BayGBM]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_suicides

Sad, but the last several years have proven that the American people do not care about our servicemen and women. 

[Decker]

Please define real war as opposed to Iraq..i mean given ur vast military experience and all.

Can I try?

Real War = use of military for a country's self defense including defense of an ally or defense from an imminent attack.

I'm don't see how Iraq fits into that since we attacked the country without provocation or justification.

What's your idea?

[headhuntersix]

The thread was suicide..these kids are in a real war. This will be used as a political tool..not fix or help anybody. We do alot for PTSD and suicide prevention.....more then anybody else in the public or private sector. Our suicide rates are comparable with the general public at large. This is a problem that was not unexpected and we're doing the best we can. U can't defend it, we're in combat and its going to happen. 28% of  those deaths out 115 were non-combat related. We had guys kill themselves in the 90's. Its generally for the same reasons as in the civilian population...money/family-women/ etc.

[Deicide]

The thread was suicide..these kids are in a real war. This will be used as a political tool..not fix or help anybody. We do alot for PTSD and suicide prevention.....more then anybody else in the public or private sector. Our suicide rates are comparable with the general public at large. This is a problem that was not unexpected and we're doing the best we can. U can't defend it, we're in combat and its going to happen. 28% of  those deaths out 115 were non-combat related. We had guys kill themselves in the 90's. Its generally for the same reasons as in the civilian population...money/family-women/ etc.

Why are you in the military?

[headhuntersix]

Why am in the Military...To serve the country. I've been in - in one form or another since 1991.

[Deicide]

Why am in the Military...To serve the country. I've been in - in one form or another since 1991.

But why the military specifically? Why only that path?

[War-Horse]

But why the military specifically? Why only that path?

He didnt have the balls to join the peace corps and actually do something to benefit humanity.    Right now hes a killer of innocent farmers in Iraq and a few gihadists who are antagonized by him being in their neighborhood anyway....his fault really.

[tonymctones]

He didnt have the balls to join the peace corps and actually do something to benefit humanity.    Right now hes a killer of innocent farmers in Iraq and a few gihadists who are antagonized by him being in their neighborhood anyway....his fault really.

you really think that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone?

[Decker]

you really think that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone?

That's interesting.  It's also a police matter.

One thing is certain: the US's occupation of Iraq will sustain and create new muslim hate for the West.

[OzmO]

Look,

I don't agree with most of HH6's political views. 

However, there is nothing dishonorable about joining the military.  And it takes some serious balls to do what they do in Iraq.  They took an oath and 99.99% are making good on that oath.  Those that strongly don't agree with the war leave the military honorably.  Many people make a career out of being in the military.  There is nothing wrong with that either.  It's an honorable profession.

At some point, many of you haters need to realize that's it's the American Military that is responsible for many of our freedoms we enjoy, namely to criticize the government. 

I, for one, am vehemently opposed to the Iraq war/occupation but do not for one second DISGRACE myself by calling an honorable person in the military a murderer.   They are doing what they took an oath to do and believe they are protecting our country.  No wyou can argue all day long about the justification of the war but you cannot argue the integrity of our fighting men.  And i'm not talking about the bad apples you get from any group of people.  I'm talking the people in the military who are sacrificing soo much to fight what they believe is a worthwhile fight. 

So stop fvcking disgracing yourselves while you sit in your cozy ass homes.  You need to get your ass out fo the house and talk with some of the broken shattered families of wounded or KIA's.   Tell them they are murderers.  Or better yet, go over to Iraq, and get you arm blown off by some farmer/insurgent.

[tonymctones]

That's interesting.  It's also a police matter.

One thing is certain: the US's occupation of Iraq will sustain and create new muslim hate for the West.

I can see that but I think that hatred will be there no matter whether we are there or not. Id much rather fight the war on their homeland than on ours, but that perpetuates the cycle somewhat so....?

[tonymctones]

Look,

I don't agree with most of HH6's political views. 

However, there is nothing dishonorable about joining the military.  And it takes some serious balls to do what they do in Iraq.  They took an oath and 99.99% are making good on that oath.  Those that strongly don't agree with the war leave the military honorably.  Many people make a career out of being in the military.  There is nothing wrong with that either.  It's an honorable profession.

At some point, many of you haters need to realize that's it's the American Military that is responsible for many of our freedoms we enjoy, namely to criticize the government. 

I, for one, am vehemently opposed to the Iraq war/occupation but do not for one second DISGRACE myself by calling an honorable person in the military a murderer.   They are doing what they took an oath to do and believe they are protecting our country.  No wyou can argue all day long about the justification of the war but you cannot argue the integrity of our fighting men.  And i'm not talking about the bad apples you get from any group of people.  I'm talking the people in the military who are sacrificing soo much to fight what they believe is a worthwhile fight. 

So stop fvcking disgracing yourselves while you sit in your cozy ass homes.  You need to get your ass out fo the house and talk with some of the broken shattered families of wounded or KIA's.   Tell them they are murderers.

bump for brutal truth and accuracy

[OzmO]

bump for brutal truth and accuracy

Yeah,  I'm fvcking pissed, which isn't often on this board.  This whining/calling them murderers is going too far.

[Decker]

Look,

I don't agree with most of HH6's political views. 

However, there is nothing dishonorable about joining the military.  And it takes some serious balls to do what they do in Iraq.  They took an oath and 99.99% are making good on that oath.  Those that strongly don't agree with the war leave the military honorably.  Many people make a career out of being in the military.  There is nothing wrong with that either.  It's an honorable profession.

At some point, many of you haters need to realize that's it's the American Military that is responsible for many of our freedoms we enjoy, namely to criticize the government. 

I, for one, am vehemently opposed to the Iraq war/occupation but do not for one second DISGRACE myself by calling an honorable person in the military a murderer.   They are doing what they took an oath to do and believe they are protecting our country.  No wyou can argue all day long about the justification of the war but you cannot argue the integrity of our fighting men.  And i'm not talking about the bad apples you get from any group of people.  I'm talking the people in the military who are sacrificing soo much to fight what they believe is a worthwhile fight. 

So stop fvcking disgracing yourselves while you sit in your cozy ass homes.  You need to get your ass out fo the house and talk with some of the broken shattered families of wounded or KIA's.   Tell them they are murderers.  Or better yet, go over to Iraq, and get you arm blown off by some farmer/insurgent.

I see your point.  I don't agree that we have our freedoms or liberties b/c of the military.  We have those b/c of the constitution. 

Our country's philosophy and morality for war is predicated on self-defense and not on brutal, unprovoked and discretionary attacks.

The war machine can be used for good (defense) and for evil (conquering).

This is why the reason the US attacked Iraq is important.

We can shield ourselves from criticism by heaping heroic accolades on the men and women of our military--and they do deserve that when they deserve it--but that's a dodge in this case.

Or we can integrate the reason for the US's attack into an analysis of the actions of the military soldiers.

Are the US soldiers defending america?  I think that's a fairly obvious 'no.'

Are the US soldiers defending an ally?  No.  Iraq attacked no one.

How can we still view the soldiers's actions in Iraq as heroic or moral or the like?

Now the tactfulness with which someone tells a soldier or his family that they are doing wrong in Iraq is a different story all together.

[tonymctones]

I see your point.  I don't agree that we have our freedoms or liberties b/c of the military.  We have those b/c of the constitution.  

Our country's philosophy and morality for war is predicated on self-defense and not on brutal, unprovoked and discretionary attacks.

The war machine can be used for good (defense) and for evil (conquering).

This is why the reason the US attacked Iraq is important.

We can shield ourselves from criticism by heaping heroic accolades on the men and women of our military--and they do deserve that when they deserve it--but that's a dodge in this case.

Or we can integrate the reason for the US's attack into an analysis of the actions of the military soldiers.

Are the US soldiers defending america?  I think that's a fairly obvious 'no.'

Are the US soldiers defending an ally?  No.  Iraq attacked no one.

How can we still view the soldiers's actions in Iraq as heroic or moral or the like?

Now the tactfulness with which someone tells a soldier or his family that they are doing wrong in Iraq is a different story all together.

Without the military the constitution would have never been made, without the military we might be under nazi/japanese rule. Say what you want but at the end of the day its force that speaks not a piece of paper. As for the rest of your post that somewhat comes back to my other question of whether or not you believe these ppl would leave us alone if we left them alone? I think its pretty obvious that they wouldnt, now could they launch some attack using a large amount of ppl probably not, but could they launch a devestating attack using a few men probably so. Like I said Id much rather fight on their land than on ours, so in my eyes they are defending this land and its citizens. I know its crude but Id rather everyone of the farmer/insurgents die than one more american civilian do to their actions.

[Decker]

Without the military the constitution would have never been made, without the military we might be under nazi/japanese rule. Say what you want but at the end of the day its force that speaks not a piece of paper. As for the rest of your post that somewhat comes back to my other question of whether or not you believe these ppl would leave us alone if we left them alone? I think its pretty obvious that they wouldnt, now could they launch some attack using a large amount of ppl probably not, but could they launch a devestating attack using a few men probably so. Like I said Id much rather fight on their land than on ours, so in my eyes they are defending this land and its citizens. I know its crude but Id rather everyone of the farmer/insurgents die than one more american civilian do to their actions.

No, our rights and liberties come from the principles that are memorialized in that "piece of paper."

Military force for self defense helps preserve our Union.  Surely you can see the difference.

The US must always be vigilant against all enemies.  Fine.  How does occupying Iraq change that or make the US one bit safer?

If you think the best way to handle the Iraq problem is to grease every Iraq citizen then that is that.

Why do you think it is obvious that the Iraq people will circle the wagons and set out to attack the USA (i.e., suicide)?

[tonymctones]

No, our rights and liberties come from the principles that are memorialized in that "piece of paper."

Military force for self defense helps preserve our Union.  Surely you can see the difference.

The US must always be vigilant against all enemies.  Fine.  How does occupying Iraq change that or make the US one bit safer?

If you think the best way to handle the Iraq problem is to grease every Iraq citizen then that is that.

Why do you think it is obvious that the Iraq people will circle the wagons and set out to attack the USA (i.e., suicide)?

Agreed but when the shit hits the fan holding up that piece of paper isnt going to stop somebody...If it wasnt for the military we wouldnt have had the oppurtunity to write that piece of paper and wouldnt be able to defend its priniciples and ideals...correct? Military force was used to create this union many times.

Again do you feel that these farmer/insurgents would just drop their fight if we leave? I say no, this means that we will have to fight them in one place or another does it not? Like I said id rather fight over there where our civilians arent in harms way.

Im not saying that the Iraqi people as a whole will turn and attack the US Im saying that the ppl over there now fighting the US wont just stop if we leave, they will and have in the past bring the fight to us.

[Decker]

Agreed but when the shit hits the fan holding up that piece of paper isnt going to stop somebody...If it wasnt for the military we wouldnt have had the oppurtunity to write that piece of paper and wouldnt be able to defend its priniciples and ideals...correct? Military force was used to create this union many times.

Ok.  But technically military force did not create a thing.  It expelled and destroyed but offered nothing into the vacuum.  Those principles in the constitution are what created america.  The military made that creation possible and is currently a tool for preserving those principles. 

This is quickly getting bogged down.

Again do you feel that these farmer/insurgents would just drop their fight if we leave? I say no, this means that we will have to fight them in one place or another does it not? Like I said id rather fight over there where our civilians arent in harms way.

Im not saying that the Iraqi people as a whole will turn and attack the US Im saying that the ppl over there now fighting the US wont just stop if we leave, they will and have in the past bring the fight to us.

What are they going to do?  Join hands and swim across the ocean to storm our beaches?  They have no conceivable ability to attack the US.

If they try other means, like terrorist attacks, well, that's what the good ol' Dept of Homeland Security/CIA/FBI is for.

What's the alternative?  Worry about Iraqi terrorism while occupying Iraq or leave Iraq and secure our country.

Where is it written that attacking Iraqi citizens will prevent an Iraqi citizen from coming to the US to become a suicide bomber?