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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Fury on August 19, 2008, 03:30:44 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/08/19/iraq.mosque/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
"There are the bloodstains on the wall, and here it is dried on the floor," Abu Muhanad said as he walked through a torture chamber in a Baghdad mosque where more than two dozen bodies have been found.
"And here, a woman's shoes. She was a victim of the militia. We found her corpse in the grave."
Chunks of hair waft lazily across the floor in the hot Baghdad breeze.
"This was the torture room," said Muhanad, the leader of a U.S.-backed armed group that now controls the mosque.
"This is what they used for hanging," he said, pointing to a cord dangling from the ceiling. "Here is a chain we found tied to an old man's body."
The horrific scene at this southwestern Baghdad mosque is what officials say was the work of a Shiite militia known as the Mehdi Army. Residents who live near the mosque say they could hear the victims' screams.
The militia had been in control of the mosque, called Adib al-Jumaili, from at least January 2007 until May of this year. Residents say coalition forces weren't in the region and the torture and killings went unchecked.
Some of the victims were accused of being spies for U.S. forces. Other family members don't know why their loved ones disappeared. The family members at the mosque who spoke to CNN were all Shiite, the same branch of Islam as the Mehdi militia. But, they say, some of the victims were Sunni as well. Video Watch mosque atrocities uncovered »
The neighborhood lies in an area that became one of the capital's many sectarian fault lines when violence was at its worst.
It's been about three months since the Mehdi Army, loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, abandoned this mosque as it withdrew from several strongholds across the country.
Spray painted on the walls is a chilling warning: "Spies, you will dig your own graves. Long live the Mehdi Army."
Now the mosque is under the watch of the Sons of Iraq, a local armed group that is largely financed by the Americans working alongside the Iraqi police. They are charged with trying to keep the peace in the neighborhood.
Muhanad is their leader.
"We found this chain on an old man's corpse that we dug out of the grave," he said, gesturing to a bloodied chain on the floor. "We recovered about 22 corpses and then another five."
Only now are people able to understand the true magnitude of the Shiite militia's atrocities and the brutal laws they were enforcing on the people.
"This was my son's grave," Abu Wissam said, pointing to one of the many shallow holes in the mosque's garden. "We recovered his corpse completely rotten. His hands and legs were amputated, and his head was decapitated."
"He was just a college graduate," his mother sobbed, clutching her 25-year-old son's photo.
They say the Mehdi Army abducted their son about a year ago, accusing him of being a traitor. They shot up and looted his home. The family fled.
A gruesome video of their son's mutilated body was delivered to their doorstep.
The militia "still raid our homes," Abu Wissam said. "Their families are in the district. The day before yesterday, at noon, they tried to assassinate me, but I was able to call the police for help."
The neighborhood is eerily deserted. Most of the residents fled the militia's reign; many who stayed bore the brunt of the violence. Homes stand abandoned, shops shuttered, buildings shot up.
A single car drives down the main street as a pack of dogs runs through the twisted piles of metal that was once an outdoor market.
Lingering at the mosque are a handful of residents whose loved ones were also abducted, looking for clues.
"They said they were just taking him for a few minutes, for an investigation," said Karima, who only wanted to be identified by her first name, as her eyes filled with tears. "But they never released him and we heard he might be buried behind the mosque."
Umm Diab's breath came in shallow gasps as tears flowed from her turquoise-green eyes. She wiped them away using the corner of her abaya, or robe. In her hand, there's a passport photo of her father, who was abducted by the militia.
"All we want are their dead bodies," she said.
Although the Mehdi Army has moved out of this mosque and is less visible on the street, residents know that they're not gone.
"They're still threatening us," Umm Diab said.
Yes folks, this bears all the makings of a PEACEFUL religion. What a disease.
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(http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/nazigallery/2freidrichcoch.jpg)
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Wow Bindare with a comeback arguement.
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(http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/nazigallery/2freidrichcoch.jpg)
Great point. PROTOTYPICAL Muslim defense. "Well, they did it so and so years ago so it's ok for us to do it in 2008." What a sorry argument. That's how four year olds conduct themselves. Just because someone did it 50 or 700 years ago doesn't make it right today.
Love the fundamentalist ideology that makes itself apparent every single time Islam is presented in a bad light. Even funnier is that it's self-loathing muslims always defending terrorism and torture while they claim that they don't practice or aren't muslim. :D
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Wow Bindare with a comeback arguement.
Not as good as your America/Georgia are cousins retardation, but hey, I try. ;)
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Not as good as your America/Georgia are cousins retardation, but hey, I try. ;)
I don't know. Being an adult and using a defense that most elementary school students use would lead me to believe that you may be retarded.
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Great point. PROTOTYPICAL Muslim defense. "Well, they did it so and so years ago so it's ok for us to do it in 2008." What a sorry argument. That's how four year olds conduct themselves. Just because someone did it 50 or 700 years ago doesn't make it right today.
Love the fundamentalist ideology that makes itself apparent every single time Islam is presented in a bad light. Even funnier is that it's self-loathing muslims always defending terrorism and torture while they claim that they don't practice or aren't muslim. :D
I think your yamaka is two sizes too small and is cutting off blood to your brain.
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I think your yamaka is two sizes too small and is cutting off blood to your brain.
Methinks you're a self-loathing raghead who goes into an Anti-Western rage anytime someone insults Islam. Every single thread regarding anything that casts Islam is a bad light has you in it defending and making excuses for killing civilians, torture, raping and beating women, etc. It's pretty sad.
Allahu Akbar, right bro? ::)
Digging the fourth grade argument though. Most Muslims are as dumb as you. That's why they live their lives in filth and in accordance with a fictional book written by a pedophile 1500 years ago. ;D
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Methinks you're a self-loathing raghead who goes into an Anti-Western rage anytime someone insults Islam. Every single thread regarding anything that casts Islam is a bad light has you in it defending and making excuses for killing civilians, torture, raping and beating women, etc. It's pretty sad.
Allahu Akbar, right bro? ::)
All you ever talk about is Muslims, it's fucking boooring. You don't look at anything from an unbiased point of view. I'm not defending pyscho Muslims, I certainly dont care for their extremist bullshit either. But if your gonna throw rocks, try to make sure your own history, (includes recent history) may not be guilty of the same things you accuse others of. Personally, I think anyone that mixes religon and/or politics with fanaticism needs to take a flying a leap off a cliff. There are certainly many Muslims that fit that bill, but if you don't think there are many Americans or others that wear the same shoe, your fucking retarded.
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All you ever talk about is Muslims, it's fucking boooring. You don't look at anything from an unbiased point of view. I'm not defending pyscho Muslims, I certainly dont care for their extremist bullshit either. But if your gonna throw rocks, try to make sure your own history, (includes recent history) may not be guilty of the same things you accuse others of. Personally, I think anyone that mixes religon and/or politics with fanaticism needs to take a flying a leap off a cliff. There are certainly many Muslims that fit that bill, but if you don't think there are many Americans or others that wear the same shoe, your fucking retarded.
You comparing the two shows just how "fucking retarded" you are. Fanaticism and flat out killing civilians are two different things. Most Americans do nothing more than hoot and holler, they don't kill in the name of their religion to prove a point. Nordic and I already asked you Muslim retards this before, but go ahead and dig up a list of all the Christian terrorist attacks carried out this year. It's not even 1/10th the size of Muslim terrorist attacks in one month. You Muslims are reduced to referencing singular people like Eric Rudolph in a sad attempt to save face.
What is my "own" history? The Americans stomping some Muslim face in Iraq? Couldn't care less. I can't dictate the actions of Georgie Boy after the American populace felt compelled to give him another four years. Regardless, two wrongs don't make a right. But most Muslims can't comprehend something that "complex."
I talk about Muslims on this board and that's it. Don't think about them nor care when I'm not reading this sub forum. Here and there during the week. It's a lot more entertaining than "Barack Obama sucks dick. He flip flopped on this." "No fag, McCain is old as balls and fights applesauce." This race got old so I might as well talk about something that's entertaining for me.
Wait a minute, you don't have to read my threads. But then you couldn't play the self-loathing Muslim card. :'(
My hats off to you though, Muslim. Another thread that you successfully derailed in order to save face for your brethren and their brutality. Good job.
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Not as good as your America/Georgia are cousins retardation, but hey, I try. ;)
Hey, if you had an education or knew anything about economics you would have understood it, but hey your tried
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You comparing the two shows just how "fucking retarded" you are. Fanaticism and flat out killing civilians are two different things. Most Americans do nothing more than hoot and holler, they don't kill in the name of their religion to prove a point. Nordic and I already asked you Muslim retards this before, but go ahead and dig up a list of all the Christian terrorist attacks carried out this year. It's not even 1/10th the size of Muslim terrorist attacks in one month. You Muslims are reduced to referencing singular people like Eric Rudolph in a sad attempt to save face.
What is my "own" history? The Americans stomping some Muslim face in Iraq? Couldn't care less. I can't dictate the actions of Georgie Boy after the American populace felt compelled to give him another four years. Regardless, two wrongs don't make a right. But most Muslims can't comprehend something that "complex."
I talk about Muslims on this board and that's it. Don't think about them nor care when I'm not reading this sub forum. Here and there during the week. It's a lot more entertaining than "Barack Obama sucks dick. He flip flopped on this." "No fag, McCain is old as balls and fights applesauce." This race got old so I might as well talk about something that's entertaining for me.
Wait a minute, you don't have to read my threads. But then you couldn't play the self-loathing Muslim card. :'(
My hats off to you though, Muslim. Another thread that you successfully derailed in order to save face for your brethren and their brutality. Good job.
Got hate?
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Hey, if you had an education or knew anything about economics you would have understood it, but hey your tried
Ok lets see if I got it. We borrow a billion dollars from China and then we give it to Georgia and that makes us cousins? Please wake me up when these places we "invested" in start making us, (you/me) some money.
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Got hate?
How is it hate when 99% of what I post is factual and backed up by mountains of evidence? It may seem like hate to you, but you're a self-loathing Muslim so it doesn't really matter.
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Berzerk relax. Lots of Churches, Synogouges and Buddist/ Hindu temples have torture rooms. Its normal. Stop singling out Islam. Come on guy.
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Berzerk relax. Lots of Churches, Synogouges and Buddist/ Hindu temples have torture rooms. Its normal. Stop singling out Islam. Come on guy.
I know. Every day I read about Christian, Jewish and Hindu extremist terrorist attacks. They dominate the news. Muslims only love. It is the religion of peace after all. Silly me for posting an article casting islam is a bad light. Got to remember that the Muslims on Getbig are blind to the world.
The most hilarious part of this is that these guys have no qualms about anything. A torture chamber in a mosque. Not only that but now we have a Muslim on Getbig trying to justify it. LOL. Torturing, dismembering and decapitation their fellow Iraqis in the basement of a holy place. Hilarious. So peaceful.
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Berzerk relax. Lots of Churches, Synogouges and Buddist/ Hindu temples have torture rooms. Its normal. Stop singling out Islam. Come on guy.
haha, exactly.
I drove by a evangelical church today, and saw they had beheaded someone, and sewn a women's mouth shut.
Totally normal
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haha, exactly.
I drove by a evangelical church today, and saw they had beheaded someone, and sewn a women's mouth shut.
Totally normal
I have it on good authority that in 1746 in what is now Georgia, an Evangelical church may have did that. Going with the Muslim logic, it's 100% A-OK for them to do it now.
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I know. Every day I read about Christian, Jewish and Hindu extremist terrorist attacks. They dominate the news. Muslims only love. It is the religion of peace after all. Silly me for posting an article casting islam is a bad light. Got to remember that the Muslims on Getbig are blind to the world.
The most hilarious part of this is that these guys have no qualms about anything. A torture chamber in a mosque. Not only that but now we have a Muslim on Getbig trying to justify it. LOL. Torturing, dismembering and decapitation their fellow Iraqis in the basement of a holy place. Hilarious. So peaceful.
Please show me where I justified torture you tool. I never condoned any of these psychos actions, but your the one casting generalizations of an entire religion and people. I can give you a few examples of American policies that wiped out hundreds of thousends of people when it was absolutely unnecessary but you'll just come up with some other excuse as to why it needed to be done because your head is thick and your an ignoramus You pick and choose what you want to believe I'm saying in my posts and you'll warp it as you see fit. I'm not surprised though your racist attitude shines right through in much of what you have to say.
I have no problems admitting there are murdering dirtbags in that part of the world, you just can't admit that our hands aren't clean either. Your just another self righteous dick. If you want to piss and moan about a bunch of low life murderers that happen to be "Muslim" than go ahead but you hate the whole region, you hate everything about anyone from that area, you paint everyone with the same brush. It must suck to be such a miserable human being.
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Allahu Akbar, right bro? ::)
I have heard good things
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Not as good as your America/Georgia are cousins retardation, but hey, I try. ;)
Wow, this takes the cake. You are utter scum aren't you?
Nazism isn't inspired by religion. Islamism, jihadism, the imposition of a sharia state are all directly ISLAMIC.
You do not have the mental capacity to debate things exclusively. In a thread criticising islam you bring in Christianity, in a thread to do with islamism you bring in Nazism (which is a great mistake on your part).
Also, if you find threads about islamism / jihadism boring, why waste time viewing them? Oh I know why, you're a mental midget.
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Wow, this takes the cake. You are utter scum aren't you?
Nazism isn't inspired by religion. Islamism, jihadism, the imposition of a sharia state are all directly ISLAMIC.
You do not have the mental capacity to debate things exclusively. In a thread criticising islam you bring in Christianity, in a thread to do with islamism you bring in Nazism (which is a great mistake on your part).
Also, if you find threads about islamism / jihadism boring, why waste time viewing them? Oh I know why, you're a mental midget.
Hahaha, exactly. THE prototypical Muslim argument. Instead of refuting any of the facts presented to them, they derail the argument and go straight to trying to compare Christianity to them, Nazism, Fascism and a multitude of other POLITICAL ideologies in a vain attempt to save face and stave off criticism. This clown and ProteinFarts are notorious for it.
Please show me where I justified torture you tool. I never condoned any of these psychos actions, but your the one casting generalizations of an entire religion and people. I can give you a few examples of American policies that wiped out hundreds of thousends of people when it was absolutely unnecessary but you'll just come up with some other excuse as to why it needed to be done because your head is thick and your an ignoramus You pick and choose what you want to believe I'm saying in my posts and you'll warp it as you see fit. I'm not surprised though your racist attitude shines right through in much of what you have to say.
I have no problems admitting there are murdering dirtbags in that part of the world, you just can't admit that our hands aren't clean either. Your just another self righteous dick. If you want to piss and moan about a bunch of low life murderers that happen to be "Muslim" than go ahead but you hate the whole region, you hate everything about anyone from that area, you paint everyone with the same brush. It must suck to be such a miserable human being.
Where did I say our hands aren't clean? When looking at the grand scheme of things and the average of 200+ Muslim terrorist attacks across the world every month, our hands are relatively clean compared to theirs. NOT ONE country in this world is innocent of dirtying their hands in some manner over the years.
So what you're saying is that I'm not allowed to point out the fallacies in this religion started by a pedophile because the USA kills people too? Gee, if that was the case, this world would never progress anywhere. No one would be able to debate anything.
I'm not painting everyone with the same brush either, I simply point out facts. What's their to honestly like from that area? What have the Muslims brought to the world lately? Any major scientific advances? No, the majority of them live in filth and can't even read. Any great economic gains? No, their leaders are bleeding the West for every dollar they can get with their oil while letting their people live in poverty. Any peace initiatives and societal advances? No, they're too busy beheading their neighbors and cousins while blowing up women and children because some fictional book tells them to.
You can't deal with hard facts so you resort to crying about Christianity and trying to deflect cold hard evidence off of Islam. It's the typical approach of an idiot with a GED.
ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hahaha, exactly. THE prototypical Muslim argument. Instead of refuting any of the facts presented to them, they derail the argument and go straight to trying to compare Christianity to them, Nazism, Fascism and a multitude of other POLITICAL ideologies in a vain attempt to save face and stave off criticism. This clown and ProteinFarts are notorious for it.
Where did I say our hands aren't clean? When looking at the grand scheme of things and the average of 200+ Muslim terrorist attacks across the world every month, our hands are relatively clean compared to theirs. NOT ONE country in this world is innocent of dirtying their hands in some manner over the years.
So what you're saying is that I'm not allowed to point out the fallacies in this religion started by a pedophile because the USA kills people too? Gee, if that was the case, this world would never progress anywhere. No one would be able to debate anything.
I'm not painting everyone with the same brush either, I simply point out facts. What's their to honestly like from that area? What have the Muslims brought to the world lately? Any major scientific advances? No, the majority of them live in filth and can't even read. Any great economic gains? No, their leaders are bleeding the West for every dollar they can get with their oil while letting their people live in poverty. Any peace initiatives and societal advances? No, they're too busy beheading their neighbors and cousins while blowing up women and children because some fictional book tells them to.
You can't deal with hard facts so you resort to crying about Christianity and trying to deflect cold hard evidence off of Islam. It's the typical approach of an idiot with a GED.
ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It must feel good knowing of all the people to back up your comments its the local getbig racists. 99.9% of anything you guys contribute to the board is hate and fear mongering. What a bunch of unhappy douchbags.
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It must feel good knowing of all the people to back up your comments its the local getbig racists. 99.9% of anything you guys contribute to the board is hate and fear mongering. What a bunch of unhappy douchbags.
Thanks for refuting the points we made. ::)
Allahu Akbar, bro. Allahu Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It must feel good knowing of all the people to back up your comments its the local getbig racists. 99.9% of anything you guys contribute to the board is hate and fear mongering. What a bunch of unhappy douchbags.
Hate? Racists?
I'm certainly no racist. Yeah, repulsion, disgust and critical debate about issues like this is racist and/or a hate crime.
YOU are the one who CONSTANTLY berates the US and anything anti-jihadist etc.
::) you're a low life mental midget.
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Telling the truth is racism.
To the individual claiming we are just get big racists, answer me three simple questions-
1) What religion from its very text promotes violence, rape and slavery which is practiced in 2008?
(PS, dont even think of invoking something from the old testament, that would be irrelevant to this question because I asked about its practice in 2008)
2) What religion from its very text advocates the murder of innocent people, non-adherants to its faith and anyone else as long as the murder is carried out in the name of this religions so called spirtual founder?
3) What religion is a threat to the security and safety of the entire planets population regardless of age, gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or religion?
Now, before you deny the obvious and start rattling off fallacious examples about the crusades ( which were in response to muslim agression and happened more than 500 years ago), the spanish inquistion ( which killed less than 20,000 over the course of more than a decade and also happened hundreds of years ago) or any other irrelevant and totally misplaced comparison... Look in the mirror and ask yourself if you cant reasonably tell the difference. If you can't your simply dishonest or too stupid to make rational judgements.
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It must feel good knowing of all the people to back up your comments its the local getbig racists. 99.9% of anything you guys contribute to the board is hate and fear mongering. What a bunch of unhappy douchbags.
This is yet another example of an appeasing liberal trying to refute fact, and reality with anything but fact and reality. Please post additional information that proves Islam is "the religion of peace"
No, citing a pop up picture book won't do.
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Awe... the poor Indian has taken a beat down here ;D
Can't refute the assertions, so calls those people racists! What a wondering liberal apologetic debating tactic!
Just noticed Bindare's avatar is "Question Everything" - obviously not when muslims or islam is concerned.
Scumbag.
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Awe... the poor Indian has taken a beat down here ;D
Can't refute the assertions, so calls those people racists! What a wondering liberal apologetic debating tactic!
Just noticed Bindare's avatar is "Question Everything" - obviously not when muslims or islam is concerned.
Scumbag.
I work 12+ hours a day running a business you twat. I don't have time to fuck around on getbig/stormfront all day trying to change people's narrow point of view, you and a few others seem to have all the time in the world. But when your that stupid I guess finding a job is pretty much out of the question, so what else do you have to do with your time other than talk about the same shit dayin, day out?
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I work 12+ hours a day running a business you twat. I don't have time to fuck around on getbig/stormfront all day trying to change people's narrow point of view, you and a few others seem to have all the time in the world. But when your that stupid I guess finding a job is pretty much out of the question, so what else do you have to do with your time other than talk about the same shit dayin, day out?
Yet more senseless ad hominem drivel.
I never visit "stormfront". You have trouble refuting the FACTs in this thread, but sure like making stupid assumptions and assertions.
Haha, "your that stupid", boy, this thread isn't going well for you is it? ;D
I work as a software engineer, so I can't be THAT stupid.
Start refuting the points, if not, FUCK OFF twat.
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Berzerk relax. Lots of Churches, Synogouges and Buddist/ Hindu temples have torture rooms. Its normal. Stop singling out Islam. Come on guy.
When I was 13, ...my aunt made me attend Vacation Bible school every single bloody day in a Baptist church in Connecticut that my uncle was the minister of. That entire place was one big torture room! {shudder}
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haha, exactly.
I drove by a evangelical church today, and saw they had beheaded someone, and sewn a women's mouth shut.
Totally normal
Well it's not like you haven't been trying to do that to me for a couple years now.
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Jag, why don't you fuck off?
Both of the above statements play a great disservice to the poor fuckers who got brutally slaughtered in a mosque.
You're compare yourself to that? Why don't you fuck off and try to milk this atrocity as a business venture, like you do with oil and SARS?
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When I was 13, ...my aunt made me attend Vacation Bible school every single bloody day in a Baptist church in Connecticut that my uncle was the minister of. That entire place was one big torture room! {shudder}
Hey ape, do me a favor and stfu or get out of my thread. IQ's over 100 only. Disgusting how you're comparing you having to study to having your bodyparts chopped off, hung, tortured or beheaded. Only from a woman who tries to claim she's intelligent while peddling gas caps and herbal cures for SARS alongside a criminal.
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Hey ape, do me a favor and stfu or get out of my thread. IQ's over 100 only. Disgusting how you're comparing you having to study to having your bodyparts chopped off, hung, tortured or beheaded. Only from a woman who tries to claim she's intelligent while peddling gas caps and herbal cures for SARS alongside a criminal.
Yes, you would think a person with 160 IQ would understand the mutual exclusivity in severity between having to go to Church and being tortured and butchered.
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Yes, you would think a person with 160 IQ would understand the mutual exclusivity in severity between having to go to Church and being tortured and butchered.
I guess when you wake up in a haze every day as your non-existent life of peddling herbal products and staging conference calls with fake doctors that it's to be expected. ::)
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Great point. PROTOTYPICAL Muslim defense.
I'd say LOGICAL defense. But hey, continue on your crusade, you (the Israeli taliban wannabes) and the Israeli talibans. I have no no doubt in my mind that given a choice between saving the US or Israel you'd choose Israel in a heartbeat. That is what I call a real patriot. But hey, your neck is safe for now that US and Israeli interests coincide. I'd like to see what rock you're going to hide under when these interests collide. 'Cause we'll be coming after you then... you know that right?.
"Well, they did it so and so years ago so it's ok for us to do it in 2008." What a sorry argument. That's how four year olds conduct themselves. Just because someone did it 50 or 700 years ago doesn't make it right today.
Ok, let me see... half of the people in power are older than 50... Yup, pretty dumb argument indeed. What happened 50 years ago is indeed a stupid thing to bring up precisely because it shows us doing exactly what we now so adamantly oppose and critizize. Hence it does not help your argument and it must then be disregarded as an invalid point. Dude, your arguments get better every day!
Love the fundamentalist ideology that makes itself apparent every single time Islam is presented in a bad light. Even funnier is that it's self-loathing muslims always defending terrorism and torture while they claim that they don't practice or aren't muslim. :D
I'll have you know that the INMENSE majority of muslims oppose terrorism. At the same time, they oppose the US actions in their territories, but since Bush just grabbed another new doctrine out of his ass called "you're either our friend or our enemy" all muslims are now considered terrorists. Yes, islam has its flaws like any other religion, but muslims are, like all other people, first and foremost HUMANS. And as humans they must be treated.
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How is it hate when 99% of what I post is factual and backed up by mountains of evidence?[...]
What?!!!!!!
Talk about being pulled over by the weight of your own balls!!!
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Wow, this takes the cake. You are utter scum aren't you?
Nazism isn't inspired by religion. [...]
No it is not, you're right on that. But Hitler and his boys sure exploited a millenia-held belief all over Europe that Jews were the devil. And the church played an intricate part ALL OVER EUROPE pointing out the ones who never attended their masses. This is A FACT. The same way the Catholic church in Spain singled out the communists and leftist to Franco's boys.
You have to be blind not to see this.
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Telling the truth is racism.
To the individual claiming we are just get big racists, answer me three simple questions-
1) What religion from its very text promotes violence, rape and slavery which is practiced in 2008?
(PS, dont even think of invoking something from the old testament, that would be irrelevant to this question because I asked about its practice in 2008)
2) What religion from its very text advocates the murder of innocent people, non-adherants to its faith and anyone else as long as the murder is carried out in the name of this religions so called spirtual founder?
3) What religion is a threat to the security and safety of the entire planets population regardless of age, gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or religion?
Now, before you deny the obvious and start rattling off fallacious examples about the crusades ( which were in response to muslim agression and happened more than 500 years ago), the spanish inquistion ( which killed less than 20,000 over the course of more than a decade and also happened hundreds of years ago) or any other irrelevant and totally misplaced comparison... Look in the mirror and ask yourself if you cant reasonably tell the difference. If you can't your simply dishonest or too stupid to make rational judgements.
Let me sum it up for you...
DO YOU CONSIDER MUSLIMS HUMAN BEINGS?
Please do not tell me that that is not the point, just answer the question.
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Talk about a misconstrued, uninformed Muslim meltdown. Calm down Slapper, no one is going to read that bullshit. I saw you throwing around more accusations (without supporting any of them with actual evidence) while crying Jew this, Jew that.
Why don't you Muslims stop trying to derail this thread? Your people are fucked in the head beyond belief, in this day and age, 2008. It's not 1944, not 1400, not 2000 B.C.
Muslims defense tactics. When the truth is shown in light, deflect attention, blame Jews and the USA, compare the events of an entire religion in 2008 to the events of 60+ years ago, try to insult said thread starter with lies and fallacies, provide no evidence to back up claims, and bombard the thread with a multitude of posts to derail. You're an angry little raghead, ain't ya Slapper? The big, bad West is out to get you!
4 year old Muslim (Slapper/Jag/Bindare) argument: Well, 800 years ago the Christians killed some Muslims in the crusades, so in 2008 it's perfectly OK for Moslems to run around chopping heads off and blowing up women and children. LOL. Love the GED's those three are packing.
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I'd say LOGICAL defense. But hey, continue on your crusade, you (the Israeli taliban wannabes) and the Israeli talibans. I have no no doubt in my mind that given a choice between saving the US or Israel you'd choose Israel in a heartbeat. That is what I call a real patriot. But hey, your neck is safe for now that US and Israeli interests coincide. I'd like to see what rock you're going to hide under when these interests collide. 'Cause we'll be coming after you then... you know that right?.
Ok, let me see... half of the people in power are older than 50... Yup, pretty dumb argument indeed. What happened 50 years ago is indeed a stupid thing to bring up precisely because it shows us doing exactly what we now so adamantly oppose and critizize. Hence it does not help your argument and it must then be disregarded as an invalid point. Dude, your arguments get better every day!
I'll have you know that the INMENSE majority of muslims oppose terrorism. At the same time, they oppose the US actions in their territories, but since Bush just grabbed another new doctrine out of his ass called "you're either our friend or our enemy" all muslims are now considered terrorists. Yes, islam has its flaws like any other religion, but muslims are, like all other people, first and foremost HUMANS. And as humans they must be treated.
It's not a logical defense AT ALL. It's a simple straw man argument.
If person criticises islamism in today's world, then an opponent of that view brings something up from the far past (Crusades - which were actually defensive, you should thank your lucky stars they occurred) or something that the ignorant believe to resemble islamism such as Nazism (which is mistakenly associated with Christianity) or Zionism (Judaism). The reason idiots create a straw man argument is because a supposed resembling issue is easier to refute and appears to dismantle the other persons position. Time an time again we see this, not once have I seen islamism debated mutually exclusive of that of historical events HUNDREDS of years ago.
Simply IRRELEVANT.
"IMMENSE" majority? Why are you propagating flat out lies? ??? Honestly, you might dislike the anti-islamist position, but lying to formulate an argument? That's one of the attributes of a low life.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jan/29/thinktanks.religion
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010115.php
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4407115.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article682599.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/2461830/Killing-for-religion-is-justified-say-third-of-Muslim-students.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/27/islam.highereducation
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2244293620070522
No it is not, you're right on that. But Hitler and his boys sure exploited a millenia-held belief all over Europe that Jews were the devil. And the church played an intricate part ALL OVER EUROPE pointing out the ones who never attended their masses. This is A FACT. The same way the Catholic church in Spain singled out the communists and leftist to Franco's boys.
You have to be blind not to see this.
How about the substantial amount of hate directed in the koran in the direction of Jews? How about the Jews of the Arabic peninsula were massacred and/or forced to leave?
You know extremely little on this subject and it shows with the "IMMENSELY" weak arguments you're giving.
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Talk about a misconstrued, uninformed Muslim meltdown. Calm down Slapper, no one is going to read that bullshit. I saw you throwing around more accusations (without supporting any of them with actual evidence) while crying Jew this, Jew that.
Why don't you Muslims stop trying to derail this thread? Your people are fucked in the head beyond belief, in this day and age, 2008. It's not 1944, not 1400, not 2000 B.C.
I've told you about 100 times I am Roman Catholic and you're still saying I am a Muslim. That pretty much says it all. Dude, are you that out of touch with reality?
Muslims defense tactics. When the truth is shown in light, deflect attention, blame Jews and the USA, compare the events of an entire religion in 2008 to the events of 60+ years ago, try to insult said thread starter with lies and fallacies, provide no evidence to back up claims, and bombard the thread with a multitude of posts to derail. You're an angry little raghead, ain't ya Slapper? The big, bad West is out to get you!
No, what I am saying is that you should stop this madness, because this very same hate that is now being stirred up to FORCE us to hate another group of people (which now happens to be Muslims, while it used to be the Russians and the Germans before that) will be one day turned onto the Jews and all non-Christians. So unless you want to be made into soap, burned to a crisp or forced to smell Sarin gas in a basement somewhere in southern Montana, I suggest you get on the side of common sense. I can't say it any clearer.
4 year old Muslim (Slapper/Jag/Bindare) argument: Well, 800 years ago the Christians killed some Muslims in the crusades, so in 2008 it's perfectly OK for Moslems to run around chopping heads off and blowing up women and children. LOL. Love the GED's those three are packing.
No, you're totally out of touch with reality. I never said it was OK to walk around chopping heads (or worst) in the name of Allah, Jesus Christ or Budha. What I am saying, I mean pointing out, is the fact that it is MIGHTY HYPOCHRITICAL of us to look at what is going on in Islamic societies and criticize it as though US CHRISTIANS had not done even WORST, which we have.
We also have something to do with the current state of affairs in the Islamic world. I mean, many scholars agree that, back in the first few decades of the XX century, Islamic societies were in the brink becoming secular states, totally eradicating religion from all layers of society, some through internal revolts, revolutions and coup d'estat. Lo and behold we find oil in the area and watch us and the British put in power some of the most ruthless head-choppers even Mohamed would be salivating over. We even support some of these motherfuckers nowadays (as in the case of Saudi Arabia).
In any case, come a conflict between the US and Israel, would you fight for Israel or the USA?
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It's not a logical defense AT ALL. It's a simple straw man argument.
If person criticises islamism in today's world, then an opponent of that view brings something up from the far past (Crusades - which were actually defensive, you should thank your lucky stars they occurred) or something that the ignorant believe to resemble islamism such as Nazism (which is mistakenly associated with Christianity) or Zionism (Judaism). The reason idiots create a straw man argument is because a supposed resembling issue is easier to refute and appears to dismantle the other persons position. Time an time again we see this, not once have I seen islamism debated mutually exclusive of that of historical events HUNDREDS of years ago.
Simply IRRELEVANT.
"IMMENSE" majority? Why are you propagating flat out lies? ??? Honestly, you might dislike the anti-islamist position, but lying to formulate an argument? That's one of the attributes of a low life.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jan/29/thinktanks.religion
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010115.php
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4407115.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article682599.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/2461830/Killing-for-religion-is-justified-say-third-of-Muslim-students.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/27/islam.highereducation
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2244293620070522
How about the substantial amount of hate directed in the koran in the direction of Jews? How about the Jews of the Arabic peninsula were massacred and/or forced to leave?
You know extremely little on this subject and it shows with the "IMMENSELY" weak arguments you're giving.
Let me put it to you in simple terms...
Let's say you're about to enter your 10th Olympia having won the past 9. You're the heavy favorite and by the looks of it, after prejudging, you've got this one in the pocket too. Lo and behold Dorian Yates picks up the microphone and critizises all your succeses in front of the audience by saying that you used steroids. Dorian goes on TV and does the same day in and day out.
What would you say about Dorian?
Aside from this simple fact, do you have ANY FACTS from the Islamic media? I mean, all your links look nice and credible, but it'd be good to hear from the other side too. Don't ya think? I mean, I understand you only take into account what WE say, but... just for fairness sake.
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Some people here have obvious problems reading. The very same people who are so happy and proactive in pointing out the flaws in another religion are stubbornly incapable and unwilling to take a look at our past and admit the obvious. This ought to be a red flag, A WARNING, to all people who side with rationality.
To say, to imply or to insinuate (with the use of "facts") that the majority of Muslims side with terrorism is just downright wrong. Do Muslim fathers and mothers want their kids or someone else's kids blown up in suicide bombings? NO! Do Muslim fathers and mothers love their kids as much as we love ours? You betcha!
The Nazism argument that someone "associated" this to Christianity... I mean, are they fucking for real? Are they seriously this INCAPABLE OF BASIC READING?! The fact that the church played an intricate part in pointing out the Jews in every town, looking the other way when all these attrocities were being commited and later speaking out against them as though they had nothing to do with them is KNOWN TO MANY PEOPLE.
And worst of all, some of individuals post links as "fact" when upon closer look they have very little to do with the subject at hand.
Lie after lie after lie.
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Some people here have obvious problems reading. The very same people who are so happy and proactive in pointing out the flaws in another religion are stubbornly incapable and unwilling to take a look at our past and admit the obvious. This ought to be a red flag, A WARNING, to all people who side with rationality.
To say, to imply or to insinuate (with the use of "facts") that the majority of Muslims side with terrorism is just downright wrong. Do Muslim fathers and mothers want their kids or someone else's kids blown up in suicide bombings? NO! Do Muslim fathers and mothers love their kids as much as we love ours? You betcha!
The Nazism argument that someone "associated" this to Christianity... I mean, are they fucking for real? Are they seriously this INCAPABLE OF BASIC READING?! The fact that the church played an intricate part in pointing out the Jews in every town, looking the other way when all these attrocities were being commited and later speaking out against them as though they had nothing to do with them is KNOWN TO MANY PEOPLE.
And worst of all, some of individuals post links as "fact" when upon closer look they have very little to do with the subject at hand.
Lie after lie after lie.
What however is not as widely known to people is the price Germans paid for the complicity of the Catholic church,
...and are still paying to this day.
You see, there was a price the Catholic church demanded in exchange for looking the other way. A portion of all tax revenue from the German people was diverted to the Catholic church. Special commemorative rosary beads with swastikas were issued to commemorate this, and to this day, the Catholic church still continues to receive a portion of all the taxes paid by German citizens.
Deals like this have existed all throughout history.
Ask yourself how such a tiny 'nation state' like the Vatican can amass such great wealth and such vast worldwide property holdings? One might just want to take a little peek underneath the Pope's robes to see what's been hidden for so many years.
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The analogy is pathetic, not even responding to it.
In regards to the islamic media, I the information is out-there. Hours of footage of Saudi / Hamas / Iranian media displaying programs with islamist agendas.
I never said the majority of muslims side with terrorism but a large enough minority do.
The Nazi issue again - Christian theology doesn't promote Nazism - islamic ideology attacks non-muslims comprehensively. Tho with you assertion you still provide no references.
You criticise Christians ONCE AGAIN in defence of islamism (like pointing fingers on playground: "he did it too, so don't punish me") via historic references - you cannot comprehend that that is a straw man argument.
Where are my lies? You're acting like an intellectual coward, no substance, just ad hominem attacks, lies and when it comes down to it a desire to stop critical discussion of islam.
Seriously, start refuting my assertions.
What however is not as widely known to people is the price Germans paid for the complicity of the Catholic church,
...and are still paying to this day.
You see, there was a price the Catholic church demanded in exchange for looking the other way. A portion of all tax revenue from the German people was diverted to the Catholic church. Special commemorative rosary beads with swastikas were issued to commemorate this, and to this day, the Catholic church still continues to receive a portion of all the taxes paid by German citizens.
Deals like this have existed all throughout history.
Ask yourself how such a tiny 'nation state' like the Vatican can amass such great wealth and such vast worldwide property holdings? One might just want to take a little peek underneath the Pope's robes to see what's been hidden for so many years.
The actions of men do not speak for Christianity here, that coming from me an atheist.
Anti non-muslim is prevalent throughout the koran, its embedded in the core ideology.
Don't get me started on the jizya Jews were FORCED to pay in the Arabic peninsula that provided the resources to systematically slaughter and persecute them out.
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The actions of men do not speak for Christianity here, that coming from me an atheist.
...however you say the actions of men DO speak for Islam? Is that the jest of your statement?
Don't get me started on the jizya Jews were FORCED to pay in the Arabic peninsula that provided the resources to systematically slaughter and persecute them out.
Pretty ironic isn't it? Reminds me of my girlfriends family.
They had a business that actually supplied the Nazi war machine ...til they were forced to flee for their own lives.
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...however you say the actions of men DO speak for Islam? Is that the jest of your statement?
In regards to Christianity's relationship Nazism that is exactly my assertion.
E.g. Nazis ideology isn't compatible with Christian doctrine.
Hilarious of the original debate in this thread has been taken of course by far lefties wanting to end critical discussion of islam.
Just weak and poor understanding of the topic in discussion.
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Jag, why don't you fuck off?
Both of the above statements play a great disservice to the poor fuckers who got brutally slaughtered in a mosque.
Oh Puleaze Nordic, ...save the phony compassion for someone who will actually fall for it.
Having read your statements thus far, ...I know you don't give two poops about those who got slaughtered,
...because those who did were muslims.
You're compare yourself to that? Why don't you fuck off and try to milk this atrocity as a business venture, like you do with oil and SARS?
Every cloud has a silver lining.... and if I have the ability to turn a negative into a positive, or to make lemons out of lemonade, ...I will, ...and I will make no apologies for it. That's simply the way of the Universe. That's how God created it. God never created a bottom without a top, ...an up without a down.
What you call milking, ...I call transformation.
There are plenty of attrocities taking place throughout the world.
What have you done to transform attrocities into something positive that can leave a lasting legacy?
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Hey ape, do me a favor and stfu or get out of my thread. IQ's over 100 only. Disgusting how you're comparing you having to study to having your bodyparts chopped off, hung, tortured or beheaded. Only from a woman who tries to claim she's intelligent while peddling gas caps and herbal cures for SARS alongside a criminal.
haha like you care for those poor tortured souls, you insult them in the same breath with every post. fuck off already, you hate everything and everyone Muslim and know your disgusted that she made a joke, anyone could see she wasnt serious. You guys are seriously dense.
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Oh Puleaze Nordic, ...save the phony compassion for someone who will actually fall for it.
Having read your statements thus far, ...I know you don't give two poops about those who got slaughtered,
...because those who did were muslims.
Every cloud has a silver lining.... and if I have the ability to turn a negative into a positive, or to make lemons out of lemonade, ...I will, ...and I will make no apologies for it. That's simply the way of the Universe. That's how God created it. God never created a bottom without a top, ...an up without a down.
What you call milking, ...I call transformation.
There are plenty of attrocities taking place throughout the world.
What have you done to transform attrocities into something positive that can leave a lasting legacy?
You're nullify your own argument, I obviously do care for the muslims that are effected like this by jihadism.
No matter how you repackage it we are of differing opinions on your chosen business ventures. Questioning my sincerity and impact on atrocities is an irrelevance.
haha like you care for those poor tortured souls, you insult them in the same breath with every post. fuck off already, you hate everything and everyone Muslim and know your disgusted that she made a joke, anyone could see she wasnt serious. You guys are seriously dense.
Dense, like not a single one of the liberal apologists having the ability to refute a damn thing in this thread?
You try to quell critical discussion of islam but provide no rebuttals to ANY of the issues raised in this thread.
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You're nullify your own argument, I obviously do care for the muslims that are effected like this by jihadism.
No matter how you repackage it we are of differing opinions on your chosen business ventures. Questioning my sincerity and impact on atrocities is an irrelevance.
Questioning your sincerity is irrelevant ??? Your posts thus far has made it abundantly clear you don't care about muslims. What is irrelevant, is your bringing my business into the argument. It has nothing to do with the situation, is completely OFF-TOPIC, but you brought it in in another feeble and impotent attempt to attack the messenger rather than the message.
Dense, like not a single one of the liberal apologists having the ability to refute a damn thing in this thread?
You try to quell critical discussion of islam but provide no rebuttals to ANY of the issues raised in this thread.
You don't raise issues, ...you spew hate. There is a big difference.
Raise some issues, and there will be something to discuss, ...until then, you'll simply be known as the hate mongering troll.
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You're nullify your own argument, I obviously do care for the muslims that are effected like this by jihadism.
No matter how you repackage it we are of differing opinions on your chosen business ventures. Questioning my sincerity and impact on atrocities is an irrelevance.
Dense, like not a single one of the liberal apologists having the ability to refute a damn thing in this thread?
You try to quell critical discussion of islam but provide no rebuttals to ANY of the issues raised in this thread.
We're saying one thing and your using a totally different argument. We're not on the same page cause you obviously can't fucking read. It helps when the other person actually understands whats being said.
No one defended beheadings or psycho Muslims, why the fuck do you guys keep bringing this shit up? 99% of the people on the planet earth just want peace and a normal life. All you guys focus on is one aspect, that's the nutjobs of one religion as if all others are/were clean, (well maybe Buddhists are, I don't know). Give it up man. do you go outside? Do you bother to talk to other people other than the ones that share the same beliefs and look and sound the same as you? I doubt you do considering the "facts" you keep applying to a whole culture of people.
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...however you say the actions of men DO speak for Islam? Is that the jest of your statement?
Are you fucking RETARDED? Read the Koran or the Hadiths. Throughout both of them are passages upon passages calling for the death of Jews and other non Muslims. It also calls for the spreading of Islam with the sword.
You can't deny ANY of these passages' existence because they are the very HEART of the extremist movement. If they did not exist, extremists would not be able to promote their agendas as they would have nothing to go off.
So no, Nordic is not equating the actions of men to Islam. He's equating the writings of the infallible word of God (as according to Muslims) to Islam. Do some research and stop showing us that your IQ is on par with most blacks, substandard and under 90.
haha like you care for those poor tortured souls, you insult them in the same breath with every post. fuck off already, you hate everything and everyone Muslim and know your disgusted that she made a joke, anyone could see she wasnt serious. You guys are seriously dense.
Yes, you know me exactly. Nevermind the Muslim friends I have. ::)
Stop being a little bitch of an apologist. Any thread that points out the hypocrisies and vileness that is carried out in the name of Islam gets derailed by you, Jag and that other twat trying to shift blame to the Christians and Jews. Guess what, I'm an atheist. You trying to compare the actions of Islamists in the year 2008 to the actions of certain people hundreds of years ago just shows how transparent and lacking your arguments are. It means nothing to me. If you want to play that game, look at some of the atrocities carried out by the Ottoman Empire over the course of a couple hundred years. No better than what the others were doing. Yet, you never address nor acknowledge things like that because it would destroy the only mode of attack you have. You have nothing but straw man arguments and baseless attacks that you don't refute with even a single modicum of evidence.
Riddle me this. What, in the last 50 years, have Muslims contributed to society as a whole?
I'll answer it for you. NOTHING. Well, not nothing. Terrorism, innocent civilians deaths and an attempt to send the West back to the stone ages with them.
The funny thing is, 99% of the time I'm not even attacking Islam. All I do is point out facts, like this article, and you cry baby apologist fags go ape shit trying to defend it. Can't refute the TRUTH so you try to deflect blame and attention.
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More ad hominem! Nice one! :)
If its not defence why bring counter arguments of the "Christians did it 700 years ago" type? How is that statement relevant if you're not taking sides and/or justifying?
Muslims aren't a culture or race. I actually have some friends that are muslim (albeit lenient ones).
Why did YOU post a picture of a priest doing a Nazi salute? What was your motivation?
Why did you start calling people racists for being critical of islamism?
Fact is, you're a self centred far lefty who can't stand that someone has an opinion that differs to yours. You fight in the debate by calling people racist, making straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks.
You still can't discuss your position because you're all defensive - a A-typical know-it-all.
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Are you fucking RETARDED? Read the Koran or the Hadiths. Throughout both of them are passages upon passages calling for the death of Jews and other non Muslims. It also calls for the spreading of Islam with the sword.
You can't deny ANY of these passages' existence because they are the very HEART of the extremist movement. If they did not exist, extremists would not be able to promote their agendas as they would have nothing to go off.
So no, Nordic is not equating the actions of men to Islam. He's equating the writings of the infallible word of God (as according to Muslims) to Islam. Do some research and stop showing us that your IQ is on par with most blacks, substandard and under 90.
Yes, you know me exactly. Nevermind the Muslim friends I have. ::)
Stop being a little bitch of an apologist. Any thread that points out the hypocrisies and vileness that is carried out in the name of Islam gets derailed by you, Jag and that other twat trying to shift blame to the Christians and Jews. Guess what, I'm an atheist. You trying to compare the actions of Islamists in the year 2008 to the actions of certain people hundreds of years ago just shows how transparent and lacking your arguments are. It means nothing to me. If you want to play that game, look at some of the atrocities carried out by the Ottoman Empire over the course of a couple hundred years. No better than what the others were doing. Yet, you never address nor acknowledge things like that because it would destroy the only mode of attack you have. You have nothing but straw man arguments and baseless attacks that you don't refute with even a single modicum of evidence.
Riddle me this. What, in the last 50 years, have Muslims contributed to society as a whole?
I'll answer it for you. NOTHING. Well, not nothing. Terrorism, innocent civilians deaths and an attempt to send the West back to the stone ages with them.
The funny thing is, 99% of the time I'm not even attacking Islam. All I do is point out facts, like this article, and you cry baby apologist fags go ape shit trying to defend it. Can't refute the TRUTH so you try to deflect blame and attention.
There's no hope for you man, you can't comprehend basic English. Your lack of understanding of things called "words" really puts a hamper on having an informative exchange, so it's nothing but a waste of time. A lobotomized monkey would get it by now. I'll let you guys enjoy your little circle jerk.
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The analogy is pathetic, not even responding to it.
And I know why: Because it forces you to agree with me on this one.
In regards to the Islamic media, I the information is out-there. Hours of footage of Saudi / Hamas / Iranian media displaying programs with islamist agendas.
What information is there? You mean the thousands upon thousands of Muslims crying because they've lost their son or daughter in another war or invasion?
I never said the majority of Muslims side with terrorism but a large enough minority do.
Yeah, a large minority that was progressively radicalized by our dumbass actions in the region. I mean, are we this dumb to outsiders? We attack a sovereign nation, they defend themselves and we call them "terrorists". We humiliate a sovereign nation like Iraq and the best we can come up with is "well, they're Muslim and all Muslims are terrorists"?
The Nazi issue again - Christian theology doesn't promote Nazism - Islamic ideology attacks non-muslims comprehensively. Tho with you assertion you still provide no references.
Third time you miss the point. Dude, you have some serious reading comprehension problems.
You criticise Christians ONCE AGAIN in defence of is lamism (like pointing fingers on playground: "he did it too, so don't punish me") via historic references - you cannot comprehend that that is a straw man argument.
I do not know what "straw man" is not do I have any intention of finding out what it is. What I do know is what my religion did to other people, directly or indirectly, and I know better than to point the finger at other religions. I do understand your point. I also understand how someone can feel negatively about Islam... believe me. Whenever I read articles about stonings or beheadings I get pissed mad. I think to myself "how the fuck can people allow this to happen!! How the fuck can someone do this in the name of ANY ONE?!". But you know what? It's up to the people in those countries to rise up and decimate those who cause so much pain, be it religious or secular. We did it against the friggin Brits, who were pretty ruthless motherfuckers too, let me tell you. But let's not forget that religion is just another form of control.
Where are my lies? You're acting like an intellectual coward, no substance, just ad hominem attacks, lies and when it comes down to it a desire to stop critical discussion of Islam.
And how in the world would you start a "critical" unbiased discussion of Islam when we've pretty much radicalized all Islamic clergy and isolated the immense majority with a propaganda war the USSR would be envious of? Yes, Islam is not the best religion in the world, but neither is ours.
Seriously, start refuting my assertions.
And what do you think I've been doing? Asking you out in Swahili?
As far as the role Christianity played in Nazi Germany, like I said, every one knows that once Hitler was in control of most of western Europe, the order to round up all Jews in all of the towns had already been given (late 1940 early 1941 I think). Now, how do you give an order to "round up" someone in a town located in a country whose language you do not speak? Well, you have to have intermediaries. Now, how do you know which person practises what religion? Well, you can tell by preparing a list of people who DO NOT attend your mass every Sunday and asking a question here and there. ;) ;)
And this was done in every small town, country after country, all over most of Europe. In some cases the priests did it for fear for their lives and other times because they wanted all the Jews in town dead. My wife's grandpa told me some years ago how, in the town he grew up in, while at mass, the SS officers would show up, get The List from the priest and go "hunting" for Jews. Obviously this only worked in small towns, while in larger towns the story was much easier, although the church did collaborate there too: All they had to do is stand outside the synagogue. Now, by the end of the war, the system was working so well that even the priests were helping in the killing... or so I've heard.
Now, such an intricate system of death wouldn't have been possible without the active and passive help of Christendom.
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You trying to compare the actions of Islamists in the year 2008 to the actions of certain people hundreds of years ago
pssst: There are those still alive to remember the Vatican's complicity with the Nazi's. Wasn't all that long ago.
Riddle me this. What, in the last 50 years, have Muslims contributed to society as a whole?
I'll answer it for you. NOTHING. Well, not nothing. Terrorism, innocent civilians deaths and an attempt to send the West back to the stone ages with them.
Off the top of my head, ...based on your nonsensical scribblings, I'd have to say they've increased awareness of the hatreds and bigotries that still exist in societies that consider themselves enlightened, and they have shone a rather harsh spotlight on the nasty consequences and blowback of the myopic, manipulative, interventionism that is the hallmark of certain foreign policies.
The funny thing is, 99% of the time I'm not even attacking Islam. All I do is point out facts, like this article, and you cry baby apologist fags go ape shit trying to defend it. Can't refute the TRUTH so you try to deflect blame and attention.
No one is defending anything, ...just failing to fall for agenda of misdirected hate. You seem to forget there is a civil war taking place within the country. Your argument, along with most of what you advocate lacks consistency. If I were to point out that there were torture chambers inside Abu Ghraib, would that equate to a form of Christian love? If I were to point out that the US policy of rendition where innocent men are kidnapped and flown against their will to torture chambers... would that equate to a form of US love?
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pssst: There are those still alive to remember the Vatican's complicity with the Nazi's. Wasn't all that long ago.
Jaguar, to them it does not matter. You may be Hitler's son criticizing the Jewish community for all they care. To them the fact that what his grandpa did is inconsequential. They are incapable of grasping the fact that you have to be one major league hypocrite to criticize other religions, even though yours has been the biggest cause of death during the past 1000 years. To these people the argument of hypocrisy cannot be accepted under any circumstances because indoingso their arguments would force them to fall flat on their faces. So in essence, they much rather have a situation in which, using my analogy of Dorian Yates criticizing you on taking steroids, Dorian is not wrong in criticizing your 10th Olympia, he has to be, better yet, he must be ignored because his Olympia's are in the past. What a dumbass argument. My God you have to be seriously retarded to think that way. I'm talking about training for 45 years to be that retarded.
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And I know why: Because it forces you to agree with me on this one.
What information is there? You mean the thousands upon thousands of Muslims crying because they've lost their son or daughter in another war or invasion?
Yeah, a large minority that was progressively radicalized by our dumbass actions in the region. I mean, are we this dumb to outsiders? We attack a sovereign nation, they defend themselves and we call them "terrorists". We humiliate a sovereign nation like Iraq and the best we can come up with is "well, they're Muslim and all Muslims are terrorists"?
Third time you miss the point. Dude, you have some serious reading comprehension problems.
I do not know what "straw man" is not do I have any intention of finding out what it is. What I do know is what my religion did to other people, directly or indirectly, and I know better than to point the finger at other religions. I do understand your point. I also understand how someone can feel negatively about Islam... believe me. Whenever I read articles about stonings or beheadings I get pissed mad. I think to myself "how the fuck can people allow this to happen!! How the fuck can someone do this in the name of ANY ONE?!". But you know what? It's up to the people in those countries to rise up and decimate those who cause so much pain, be it religious or secular. We did it against the friggin Brits, who were pretty ruthless motherfuckers too, let me tell you. But let's not forget that religion is just another form of control.
And how in the world would you start a "critical" unbiased discussion of Islam when we've pretty much radicalized all Islamic clergy and isolated the immense majority with a propaganda war the USSR would be envious of? Yes, Islam is not the best religion in the world, but neither is ours.
And what do you think I've been doing? Asking you out in Swahili?
As far as the role Christianity played in Nazi Germany, like I said, every one knows that once Hitler was in control of most of western Europe, the order to round up all Jews in all of the towns had already been given (late 1940 early 1941 I think). Now, how do you give an order to "round up" someone in a town located in a country whose language you do not speak? Well, you have to have intermediaries. Now, how do you know which person practises what religion? Well, you can tell by preparing a list of people who DO NOT attend your mass every Sunday and asking a question here and there. ;) ;)
And this was done in every small town, country after country, all over most of Europe. In some cases the priests did it for fear for their lives and other times because they wanted all the Jews in town dead. My wife's grandpa told me some years ago how, in the town he grew up in, while at mass, the SS officers would show up, get The List from the priest and go "hunting" for Jews. Obviously this only worked in small towns, while in larger towns the story was much easier, although the church did collaborate there too: All they had to do is stand outside the synagogue. Now, by the end of the war, the system was working so well that even the priests were helping in the killing... or so I've heard.
Now, such an intricate system of death wouldn't have been possible without the active and passive help of Christendom.
::)
I mean propaganda and indoctrination of children into islamism - systematically by the governments.
Read up on islamic history, jihad has existed since the conception of islam. For modern jihadist evens I see you like to blame our western governments for meddling, well research the muslim brotherhood and other such organisations along with the usual separatism shown by muslims where they get a large enough demographic - for modern examples see Indonesia.
You say you religion had a negative impact on people, both direct and non-direct, yet are still a believer?
Christianity isn't my religion.
The German Catholic churches collaborated on the whims of men, not the divinity of the Bible. Islamist act on the infallible divinity of the koran - THAT is the difference.
Jaguar, to them it does not matter. You may be Hitler's son criticizing the Jewish community for all they care. To them the fact that what his grandpa did is inconsequential. They are incapable of grasping the fact that you have to be one major league hypocrite to criticize other religions, even though yours has been the biggest cause of death during the past 1000 years. To these people the argument of hypocrisy cannot be accepted under any circumstances because indoingso their arguments would force them to fall flat on their faces. So in essence, they much rather have a situation in which, using my analogy of Dorian Yates criticizing you on taking steroids, Dorian is not wrong in criticizing your 10th Olympia, he has to be, better yet, he must be ignored because his Olympia's are in the past. What a dumbass argument. My God you have to be seriously retarded to think that way. I'm talking about training for 45 years to be that retarded.
Well if you're saying Christianity has been the biggest cause of death in the past 1000 I'd like you to show evidence.
Now on to the highlighted part... you seem to have been too ignorant in your ASSUMPTIONS.
I am not Christian, I am not Jewish etc. I am an a atheist. Pretty much destroys that argument.
And yes, we can discuss whatever Christianity might have caused in a separate thread, but please be intelligent enough to understand Christianity and islam can be discussed mutually exclusively.
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Nordic trying to reason with these idiots is like nailing jello to the wall. Just submit to their blindly stupid ideas on islam and their equally warped view on religion in general. Responding at long last will just give you indigestion and carpal tunnel syndrome.
The root of radical islam is ISLAM, not any governments foriegn policy. A thousand years ago they were cutting each others heads off in the desert, its what they do now, and a thousand years from now they'll be doing the same shit.
For the usual suspects trying to compare Christianity to Islam, do yourself a favor and pick up a book. The reasearch will demonstrate the comparison is not even remotely close in its death count and at long last the vast majority of Christianity's violent mishaps have taken place generations ago. Islam is a threat to all civilized society and humanity at large. The only thing worse is the apathy and idiocy of its appeasers.
PS- Communism and Socialisms body count is several thousands of times worse than anything any religion has ever done in history. From Stalin to Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, etc. etc. etc= Hundreds of millions of people murdered in the name of the greater good
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Nordic trying to reason with these idiots is like nailing jello to the wall. Just submit to their blindly stupid ideas on islam and their equally warped view on religion in general. Responding at long last will just give you indigestion and carpal tunnel syndrome.
The root of radical islam is ISLAM, not any governments foriegn policy. A thousand years ago they were cutting each others heads off in the desert, its what they do now, and a thousand years from now they'll be doing the same shit.
For the usual suspects trying to compare Christianity to Islam, do yourself a favor and pick up a book. The reasearch will demonstrate the comparison is not even remotely close in its death count and at long last the vast majority of Christianity's violent mishaps have taken place generations ago. Islam is a threat to all civilized society and humanity at large. The only thing worse is the apathy and idiocy of its appeasers.
PS- Communism and Socialisms body count is several thousands of times worse than anything any religion has ever done in history. From Stalin to Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, etc. etc. etc= Hundreds of millions of people murdered in the name of the greater good
ARE MUSLIMS HUMAN BEINGS IN YOUR EYES?
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pssst: There are those still alive to remember the Vatican's complicity with the Nazi's. Wasn't all that long ago.
Off the top of my head, ...based on your nonsensical scribblings, I'd have to say they've increased awareness of the hatreds and bigotries that still exist in societies that consider themselves enlightened, and they have shone a rather harsh spotlight on the nasty consequences and blowback of the myopic, manipulative, interventionism that is the hallmark of certain foreign policies.
No one is defending anything, ...just failing to fall for agenda of misdirected hate. You seem to forget there is a civil war taking place within the country. Your argument, along with most of what you advocate lacks consistency. If I were to point out that there were torture chambers inside Abu Ghraib, would that equate to a form of Christian love? If I were to point out that the US policy of rendition where innocent men are kidnapped and flown against their will to torture chambers... would that equate to a form of US love?
Jaguar what is the weather like on your planet?
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Yes Slapper. They are human beings. What kind of stupid fucking question is that?
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::)
I mean propaganda and indoctrination of children into islamism - systematically by the governments.
But that exists everywhere. In the Islamic world this indoctrination has a more religious tone simply because the head-choppers we've either put into power or maintained in power have relinquished part of the education system to the Islamic clergy which, by now, after various of our "democracy-bringing" crusades, is so radicalized that it's churning out West-hating individuals every second. Yes, their societies are not perfect. Their human rights record is not the best. But you know what? Neither is ours. Therefore we are in no position to criticize. Remember the "let thee who hasn't sinned cast the first stone?".
Read up on Islamic history, jihad has existed since the conception of Islam. For modern jihadist evens I see you like to blame our western governments for meddling, well research the Muslim brotherhood and other such organisations along with the usual separatism shown by Muslims where they get a large enough demographic - for modern examples see Indonesia.
Oh, watch out! And I bet you've read up on it! Excuse me Lawrence of Arabia! As I said to you before, I agree with you in that the Islamic model of a society is not the best there is out there... by far. But neither is ours.
You say you religion had a negative impact on people, both direct and non-direct, yet are still a believer?
I think you mean to say "indirect".... And who the hell said I was still a believer???? LOL. Walk toward the light dude!!!!
The German Catholic churches collaborated on the whims of men, not the divinity of the Bible. Islamist act on the infallible divinity of the koran - THAT is the difference.
But who is saying otherwise duuuuuude?! I mean, for fourth and hopefully last time: The church did play an intricate part in the holocaust. Not because Hitler loved religion, in fact he hated it, but because they were asked to do the work of the Bible and they happily complied. By the end of the war, there is NO FUCKING WAY the Vatican did not know was happening in Poland and Germany. They just didn't write it down in a memo and emailed it to Pope. The real sin was knowing what was going on and telling their priests not to hand any lists of people to the SS. In fact, they continued doing so, even taking part, in isolated events, in the slaughter (as in the forced conversion of many people's in the Balkans).
Well if you're saying Christianity has been the biggest cause of death in the past 1000 I'd like you to show evidence.
Discovery of America by the Spaniards, European colonialism in Africa, etc.
Now on to the highlighted part... you seem to have been too ignorant in your ASSUMPTIONS.
I am not Christian, I am not Jewish etc. I am an a atheist. Pretty much destroys that argument.
No it doesn't. If you're an atheist you'd immediately tell me that Islam and Christianity are the same shit. Which they are. Instead of doing that you go on a frontal verbal assault of Islam, I presume because you have certain religious bias (for whatever reason) and developed a case of temporary religious amnesia, suddenly becoming an atheist because it fits your argument.
And yes, we can discuss whatever Christianity might have caused in a separate thread, but please be intelligent enough to understand Christianity and Islam can be discussed mutually exclusively.
And I'm saying: Yes you can, if you are a stupid hypocrite!
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The vast majority of Christianity's violent mishaps have taken place generations ago.
Religious Tolerance.org might disagree with you there http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm)
PS- Communism and Socialisms body count is several thousands of times worse than anything any religion has ever done in history. From Stalin to Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, etc. etc. etc= Hundreds of millions of people murdered in the name of the greater good
Pol Pot, ...you dare have the audacity to mention Pol pot? Who do you think supported him?
As for Hitler, ...who do you think his banker was? The sheer ignorance and inability to connect the dots that i see around here just boggles the mind!
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Jaguar what is the weather like on your planet?
Currently 25o C and cloudy. Just how I love summer nights... warm & balmy.
much better than the humidity or the rains I narrowly escaped when I left Florida last week.
I hightailed it out of there on Monday before Fay hit. :D
ps: You really do owe me the most humblest of apologies you know.
Infact, ...I'd say some serious tushy kissing is in order. ;)
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Im going to respond on Nordics behalf in the name of sanity. By your logic no one can ever criticize anyone else for doing anything ever because in the past they may have done something similar. So in other words we cant criticize any of the islamic countries that penalize female rape victims with floggings because they commited the crime of being in the presence of a man unescorted? Is that because America used to have that kind of law in place? How about the death penalty for homosexuality? I mean your way of thinking is so unbelievably stupid it defies explanation.
You also make the absurd assertion that we cant criticize islams model of society because our way of life isn't perfect either. It is precisely that kind of thinking that highlights the delusion most liberals base their lives on. Everybody is the best at everything and nobody is better than anyone else right? Let me ask you a question Slapper- Would you prefer to live under the Islamic model or the American model? Are immigrints flooding into the middle east to live the Syrian dream? How about the Pakistani dream? No, wait I can already predict your response before its typed- " Well, American foriegn policy is the reason why people aren't living the Syrian or Pakistani dream, etc etc"
Your next moronic point involves blaming Christianity for slavery and the death toll resulting from the discovery of America. Apparently you never passed 8th grade history. The purpose of exploration was for money. The spread of religion was incidental and a by-product of exploration. You think Columbus or the spaniards traveled to America to discover America so the word of God could be spread or because they were trying to go to India to make money and got lost? Ill give you a hint. Its the latter.
I could continue berating you for hours but ill stop there.
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Jaguar I have a weakness for cute black chicks, so kissing your tushy would be my pleasure ;D
As per your other comments, ::)
Talk to the face lol
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Im going to respond on Nordics behalf in the name of sanity. By your logic no one can ever criticize anyone else for doing anything ever because in the past they may have done something similar. So in other words we cant criticize any of the islamic countries that penalize female rape victims with floggings because they commited the crime of being in the presence of a man unescorted? Is that because America used to have that kind of law in place? How about the death penalty for homosexuality? I mean your way of thinking is so unbelievably stupid it defies explanation.
You also make the absurd assertion that we cant criticize islams model of society because our way of life isn't perfect either. It is precisely that kind of thinking that highlights the delusion most liberals base their lives on. Everybody is the best at everything and nobody is better than anyone else right? Let me ask you a question Slapper- Would you prefer to live under the Islamic model or the American model? Are immigrints flooding into the middle east to live the Syrian dream? How about the Pakistani dream? No, wait I can already predict your response before its typed- " Well, American foriegn policy is the reason why people aren't living the Syrian or Pakistani dream, etc etc"
Your next moronic point involves blaming Christianity for slavery and the death toll resulting from the discovery of America. Apparently you never passed 8th grade history. The purpose of exploration was for money. The spread of religion was incidental and a by-product of exploration. You think Columbus or the spaniards traveled to America to discover America so the word of God could be spread or because they were trying to go to India to make money and got lost? Ill give you a hint. Its the latter.
I could continue berating you for hours but ill stop there.
LOL. Nordic and George are dropping some major league ownings in this thread. These dipshits are reduced to regurgitating the same bullshit and grasping at straws as they try to intertwine events in yet another vain attempt to cast Islam in a good light. ::)
Jaguar I have a weakness for cute black chicks, so kissing your tushy would be my pleasure ;D
As per your other comments, ::)
Talk to the face lol
She's ugly. Brutal lazy eye.
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lol I stand corrected then.
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It must feel good knowing of all the people to back up your comments its the local getbig racists. 99.9% of anything you guys contribute to the board is hate and fear mongering. What a bunch of unhappy douchbags.
I'm no racist, but you gotta admit that TODAY... in TODAY'S society... in the world we live in TODAY that more innocent victims of terrorism are being killed by Muslim extremists... Not a lot of Jewish Extremists or Christian Extremists running around today.
It's not in their religious mandate if someone doesn't believe to off them... It' kind of in the Muslim one though isn't it?
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Slapper, either you're stupid or an utterly disgusting person. I'm hoping the former is true.
You think islam can't be criticised mutually exclusive of Christianity, otherwise it is hypocrisy? Honestly, what a fucking HUGE logical fallacy that is.
Like I said, this is a straw man argument. You bringing Christianity into the fray and saying that it has done evil in the past as a means of attacking my position on islam. This is stupid. I can agree with some assertions in that regards, but we're specifically discussing islam here, something you don't like to see and would like to censor.
I thought you said you're a Roman Catholic? Are you a believer (Jesus as the saviour) or not? ???
I quote you:
What I do know is what my religion did to other people, directly or indirectly, and I know better than to point the finger at other religions.
YOU said YOUR RELIGION (which would imply you're a Christian) "did" things to people directly / indirectly.
I'm an atheist and I'm telling you that Christianity and islam certainly haven't done the "same shit". Yes I have researched this, you know nothing about islamic ideology and history and it's critical to support some of your assertions (which are false).
Honestly, what a TOOL.
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Im going to respond on Nordics behalf in the name of sanity. By your logic no one can ever criticize anyone else for doing anything ever because in the past they may have done something similar. So in other words we cant criticize any of the islamic countries that penalize female rape victims with floggings because they commited the crime of being in the presence of a man unescorted? Is that because America used to have that kind of law in place? How about the death penalty for homosexuality? I mean your way of thinking is so unbelievably stupid it defies explanation.
But WHY is it so unbelievably stupid? I mean, put your finger on something man! You talk about the death penalty, mistreatment of women, other things that I've actually AGREED with Nordic on (remember the "their society is just a shithole" comment I made before?) but you morons still throw it in my face as though I'm argumenting otherwise. You miss my point TIME AND TIME again. It's frustrating to have a conversation with you guys because you can't EVEN COMPREHEND WHAT IS BEING WRITTEN.
My point is that you have to be one of the BIGGEST hypocrites is the history of the world to criticize another country for their human rights violations when YOUR COUNTRY'S record is even worse. I mean, if you do not understand this very fact then there isn't really anything we can talk about. I mean, you can criticize Iran's institutional killings of homosexuals, but any Iranian could criticize your justice system for being racist (http://justice.uaa.alaska.edu/death/graphics/ch1race.gif) and your know what, he'd have as valid of a point as you. You can criticize the Iranians for treating women like shit, and they can criticize you for killing 500,000 Iraqis during the last invasion and due to the sanctions we imposed onto them. Hell, they can point to Vietman, Central America, you know, places where we didn't even give women the choice to either put a Burqa on or die. We just killed them. They, ANY ARAB, can point at what is going on in Guantánamo and have a better point than yours. So all in all, I do understand their society is a shithole, but it's THEIR shithole. It's THEIR SHITHOLE to fix. If you're a thief yourself and you call out another thief, what does that make you?
You also make the absurd assertion that we cant criticize islams model of society because our way of life isn't perfect either.
How is it an absurd assertion? Have you ever heard about the term hypocrisy?: "is the act of preaching a certain belief or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself". How can you teach a kid the evils of drugs when you're a crackhead yourself?
It is precisely that kind of thinking that highlights the delusion most liberals base their lives on. Everybody is the best at everything and nobody is better than anyone else right?
Again with the liberal bullshit story!! Nope, we have to stop being hypocrites, strive toward a more egalitarian society and then we can maybe begin to talk. I have to break it to you, if the entire Muslim population comes into my town and tries to force me out of my house, no one is saying that they may be able to do that, but I ain't going down without taking some motherfuckers with me! The only difference between us and the shortcut republicans is that while you're busy losing sleep over preemptive bullshit and worrying about the martians coming over and planning a takeover of the USA (beginning in Secaucus I presume) we're busy hitting the puss, showing up at work well-rested and coming home only to hit the puss some mo'. Dig it? We do not worry about shit we do not control.
Let me ask you a question Slapper- Would you prefer to live under the Islamic model or the American model?
Well, I had no choice, I was born here, hence the "American model" does it for me. But at the same time, if you ask someone in Algiers or Mecca which model they'd chose I guarantee you they'd say the "Islamic model". So I do not understand your point. If you're trying to show that our model is better than their model... well, it may be to you, but it may be otherwise to someone in Karachi. Why is it so hard for you to understand that?
Are immigrants flooding into the middle east to live the Syrian dream? How about the Pakistani dream? No, wait I can already predict your response before its typed- " Well, American foreign policy is the reason why people aren't living the Syrian or Pakistani dream, etc etc".
Nope, but in Saudi Arabia there are a lot of immigrants. Not as many as we have here frankly because their immigration policies are tighter than ours. Besides, I'll have you know that people do not come to this country because of the "freedom" or the "openness" of our society, they come here because of the $$.
Your next moronic point involves blaming Christianity for slavery and the death toll resulting from the discovery of America. Apparently you never passed 8th grade history. The purpose of exploration was for money. The spread of religion was incidental and a by-product of exploration. You think Columbus or the Spaniards traveled to America to discover America so the word of God could be spread or because they were trying to go to India to make money and got lost? Ill give you a hint. Its the latter.
This is he reason why I say you guys have a reading comprehension problem. In no way, shape or form did I ever say that the discovery of America was backed by any religion. NEVER. Still you grab that comment you just made up, grabbed right out of your ass I'd say, and actually argument it further, without even noticing that you just made it up! It's hilarious!
I'll have you know that I lived in Spain for many years and know a thing or two about the "discovery". At first, the first voyages to the Americas were financed by many Sephardi Jews, some living in Spain and some in Italy. Eventually the Spanish kingdom, which had lost a lot of money in the reconquista of Southern Spain and expelled all the Jews (who chose not to convert) and Moriscos out of Spain, found itself unable to finance the exploration an conquest of the American territories. Since the Jews had been thrown out of the country, the Reyes Católicos found themselves with insufficient funds to launch a full-fledged conquest. That is where the Vatican came in. They accepted to finance the conquest under one condition: The population must be converted. At one point, when it became clear that there was a lot of gold in the New World, the option to kill all natives found was put on the table. I ain't making this up, it is an actual fact. Google Bartolomé de Las Casas and ye shall see.
I could continue berating you for hours but ill stop there.
Berating? Not at all. I love seeing your arguments fall like a deck of old cards. Are you American?
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I'm no racist, but you gotta admit that TODAY... in TODAY'S society... in the world we live in TODAY that more innocent victims of terrorism are being killed by Muslim extremists... Not a lot of Jewish Extremists or Christian Extremists running around today.[...]
I do not know about that. I mean, upwards of 500,000 people have died in Iraq because of our invasion and occupation. I understand we did not go into Iraq for religious reasons, but the number of deaths caused by terrorism acts by Christian states far outnumber those committed by Muslim extremism. And the majority of Muslims oppose any type of terrorism by the way, whereas people here have problems even understanding the concept of hypocrisy. We can do no wrong. Once we start off with this premise anything else we do, be it kill 1, 5 or 60 million people, does not matter because we either have to kill that many people to stave off a terrorist attack or bring democracy to them.
I mean, to the rest of the world it isn't even being discussed: The US government is engaging in state terrorism and has done so for many years. It's only here that we have problems grasping that fact.
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Slapper, either you're stupid or an utterly disgusting person. I'm hoping the former is true.
Dude, you and the insults... they make you look bad.
You think islam can't be criticised mutually exclusive of Christianity, otherwise it is hypocrisy? Honestly, what a fucking HUGE logical fallacy that is.
No, it can be criticised indeed. But if you're an American, a Brit or a citizen of any country that engages in state terrorism then indoingso you would be a hypocrite. Look at your society's problems before you look at someone else's.
Like I said, this is a straw man argument.
"Straw man argument", "liberal indulgence"... you guys sound like a friggin broken record! Come up with a better line! Oh! Wait... you can't.
You bringing Christianity into the fray and saying that it has done evil in the past as a means of attacking my position on islam. This is stupid. I can agree with some assertions in that regards, but we're specifically discussing islam here, something you don't like to see and would like to censor.
Well, you do not want to bring up the Christian past because it brings up facts that precisely make your argument go down the drain. I mean, you can deny what the Christians have done in the past so that it then looks as though you're criticizing Islam from a higher moral ground, when in reality you're not.
I thought you said you're a Roman Catholic? Are you a believer (Jesus as the saviour) or not? ???
I was born Roman Catholic. I told you I was born Roman Catholic because you kept insisting that I was a Muslim, not because I am a practising catholic (that is a different story). Now, as far as religious beliefs go, I've been an atheist most of my life. All religions are the same shit.
I quote you:
YOU said YOUR RELIGION (which would imply you're a Christian) "did" things to people directly / indirectly.
I'm an atheist and I'm telling you that Christianity and islam certainly haven't done the "same shit". Yes I have researched this, you know nothing about islamic ideology and history and it's critical to support some of your assertions (which are false).
Dude, when you say things like "you don't know" or "you do not have any facts" all I'm hearing is totally the opposite. You do know that right?
Honestly, what a TOOL.
You're so easy. Like shooting fish in a barrel.
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You do not understand, you have no argument.
Your assertion is that we're not worthy of an opinion simply because of the countries we reside in UK, US have massive human rights violations (which in itself is false) is RIDICULOUS. Seriously, are you this dumb? Are you saying a child born in the US inherits the nations guilt? Nice Christian symbolism there!
The analogy with a crack head teaching its child isn't valid. I was born in England, anything it has done in its past I am NOT guilty for. My society is secular and allows an open view of the world, something a closed state like Saudi Arabia, Iran etc. do not have or value.
The human migration statistics speak volumes of which societies are preferred by human beings. Like in business, more people use Google over Yahoo search because it's a better service. Western nations provide a greater standard of living, freeness and opportunities that inferior muslim societies cannot match.
A broken record that keeps repeating the truth, oh well, you can't handle it or accept that that's the core of your debating tactic here then ... oh well...
Bringing up Christian historical atrocities (whatever they might be) has nothing to do with being critical of islamism they are mutually exclusive. This assertion is simply not true, get this point into your head.
Lets say you're right that it shows hypocrisy, the point is: DOES THAT MAKE THE MODERN ATROCITIES OF ISLAMISM ANY LESS TRUE?
No - it doesn't does it? Yet you're saying my position is invalid and not legitimate because somehow you're aligning me (a English Atheist) with the guilt of whatever England or Christianity has done in the past.
I never insisted you was muslim ???
So the typical liberal apologetic rhetoric comes out of the woodwork: "All religions are the same shit"
Do you HONESTLY believe they are exactly equal in their evilness?
Like I said, you clearly lack any knowledge of the history of islamism by making some of your assertions here.
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She's ugly. Brutal lazy eye.
You know BerzerkFury, I'm usually not one to insult people based on such superficial criteria as their looks,
...however, I've seen your picture, ...and I believe that unless you're looking to be royally sodomized,
insulting someone else's appearance is the last thing you want to be engaged in. ...Just a thought. ;)
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You do not understand, you have no argument.
Your assertion is that we're not worthy of an opinion simply because of the countries we reside in UK, US have massive human rights violations (which in itself is false) is RIDICULOUS. Seriously, are you this dumb? Are you saying a child born in the US inherits the nations guilt? Nice Christian symbolism there!
I don't think that's what he's saying, ...but based on many of your statements, ...it appears to be what you're saying with regards to Muslims.
The analogy with a crack head teaching its child isn't valid. I was born in England, anything it has done in its past I am NOT guilty for. My society is secular and allows an open view of the world, something a closed state like Saudi Arabia, Iran etc. do not have or value.
And why is that? Why is it that countries like Iran for instance (who used to be secular) have whole-heartedly embraced an Islamic revolution? What were the factors that brought this about? What was it they rejected that made them seek solace in the arms of Islam?
The human migration statistics speak volumes of which societies are preferred by human beings. Like in business, more people use Google over Yahoo search because it's a better service. Western nations provide a greater standard of living, freeness and opportunities that inferior muslim societies cannot match.
That is the one of the stupidest arguments you've ever brought forth on these boards, ...and you've brought many.
And why is it that many muslim societies, ...despite their tremendous wealth (oil) are unable to match certain standards so prevalent in the west? I don't know about you, but I'd bet if bombs started falling in Hawaii, it wouldn't be so hot as a vacation spot anymore.
A broken record that keeps repeating the truth, oh well, you can't handle it or accept that that's the core of your debating tactic here then ... oh well...
Bringing up Christian historical atrocities (whatever they might be) has nothing to do with being critical of islamism they are mutually exclusive. This assertion is simply not true, get this point into your head.
Lets say you're right that it shows hypocrisy, the point is: DOES THAT MAKE THE MODERN ATROCITIES OF ISLAMISM ANY LESS TRUE?
What you refer to as the 'modern attrocities of Islam' is in fact the 'modern attrocities of perverse fanatics' who do not represent Islam any more than neocon represent traditional Republican values.
Yet you're saying my position is invalid and not legitimate because somehow you're aligning me (a English Atheist) with the guilt of whatever England or Christianity has done in the past.
I think he see through your transparent agenda of inciting hatred towards Muslims.
Your insistence on making your arguments in the Political board rather than on the Religion board supports this.
I never insisted you was muslim ???
You've accused me and any others who've refused to dive head first into your cesspool of hate of being Muslims.
So the typical liberal apologetic rhetoric comes out of the woodwork: "All religions are the same shit"
I would think that would be the atheist argument. But again, this thread is on the wrong board.
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You do not understand, you have no argument.
Your assertion is that we're not worthy of an opinion simply because of the countries we reside in UK, US have massive human rights violations (which in itself is false) is RIDICULOUS. Seriously, are you this dumb? Are you saying a child born in the US inherits the nations guilt? Nice Christian symbolism there!
Misquoting me again! What I'm saying is that you are entitled to criticize anyone at any time. However, if your country is doing the exact same things you so adamantly criticize that makes you a hypocrite. Why? Because you refuse to apply the same standards to the actions of your government than the actions of a few Islamic extremists. Simple to understand I think. As far as the child analogy is concerned, no child inherits anything from his/her nation. But the nation's citizens must protest its runaway government's actions in their name, in a very similar manner as that used by Martin Luther King to bring down centuries of racial oppresion in the south of the US. Let's not forget it was not the government who ended it, it was The People.
The analogy with a crack head teaching its child isn't valid.
And the reason is....?? Another concept grabbed right out of your ass? Wait, I know! It doesn't help your argument.
I was born in England, anything it has done in its past I am NOT guilty for. My society is secular and allows an open view of the world, something a closed state like Saudi Arabia, Iran etc. do not have or value.
And you know what? I agree. I've told you before, their societies have to open up, evolve and recognize basic human rights for all. They are not the perfect society and are not striving to become one.... BUT NEITHER IS OURS!
The human migration statistics speak volumes of which societies are preferred by human beings. Like in business, more people use Google over Yahoo search because it's a better service. Western nations provide a greater standard of living, freeness and opportunities that inferior Muslim societies cannot match.
Dude! Dude! Dude! The people that go into the Western nations do so because of MONEY.
A broken record that keeps repeating the truth, oh well, you can't handle it or accept that that's the core of your debating tactic here then ... oh well...
Debating tactic?? What debating tactic?? Your tactic is to insult, state things I said that I never really said and elaborate on them, tell me that this analogy or that analogy is not valid without offering a reason why, etc. You've got no debating tactic. Hell, you're unable to see any hypocrisy in your comments. You expect to be read but have OBVIOUS difficulties reading other people's comments.
Bringing up Christian historical atrocities (whatever they might be) has nothing to do with being critical of islamism they are mutually exclusive.
They are, but when it comes to wholesale mass murder, if you're worst than I am, why in the hell would you criticise me for killing a few thousands if you've killed half a million people yourself? Do you see the absurdity of your point? I mean you're free to write what you please, criticise that which you do not understand, but understand one thing: Many people like me sit in the sidelines shaking our heads in disbelief. Do not get me wrong, just because you have some cheerleaders on the side that agree with every stupid comment of yours just because of the Jewish vs Muslim thing your point is not well taken. And it will never be well-taken.
Lets say you're right that it shows hypocrisy, the point is: DOES THAT MAKE THE MODERN ATROCITIES OF ISLAMISM ANY LESS TRUE?
No - it doesn't does it? Yet you're saying my position is invalid and not legitimate because somehow you're aligning me (a English Atheist) with the guilt of whatever England or Christianity has done in the past.
I knew it! A Brit! You guys chopped our heads when we were seeking independence from you, committing any and all atrocities in existence and you're now pointing the finger at the Muslims. You've got some balls!!!
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Slapper this thread has turned into another mind numbing attempt to make the intentionally blind see. I am american, born in America, lived in NYC my entire life. My father was an immigrint, my mother is first generation.
Your logic and way of thinking is so flawed and out of touch with reality that I am convinced arguing with you is not only beneath me, but a waste of time as well.
Your selective copy and pastes also show me that your not as stupid as you pretend to be because you deliberately chose what to respond to in order to make your inept points seem valid.
Ill let Nordic play retarded ping pong with you. I can't be bothered with this nonsense.
I mean, to the rest of the world it isn't even being discussed: The US government is engaging in state terrorism and has done so for many years. It's only here that we have problems grasping that fact.
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Slapper this thread has turned into another mind numbing attempt to make the intentionally blind see. I am american, born in America, lived in NYC my entire life. My father was an immigrint, my mother is first generation.
Your logic and way of thinking is so flawed and out of touch with reality that I am convinced arguing with you is not only beneath me, but a waste of time as well.
Yet you fail to point out why. How logical. What a waste of brain cells.
Your selective copy and pastes also show me that your not as stupid as you pretend to be because you deliberately chose what to respond to in order to make your inept points seem valid.
Huh? I respond to any lines you and the other "little Hitler" writes. I may have missed a line or two, but believe me paisan, it was unintentional.
Ill let Nordic play retarded ping pong with you. I can't be bothered with this nonsense.
Well, it is not "nonsense". A lot of people are dying because of pseudo-fascist thinking like you two's and it is DISGUSTING. I feel enraged when thinking that I have to share this beautiful country with "animals" like you, who feel nothing about innocent people (unless they're our innocent people) being murdered and come up with the STUPIDEST reasons in the book to justify the unjustifiable. Shame on you!
I mean, to the rest of the world it isn't even being discussed: The US government is engaging in state terrorism and has done so for many years. It's only here that we have problems grasping that fact.
If you do not believe me ask any South American, anyone from an Arab country, anyone from southeast Asia, google "American atrocities", keep ignoring my friend. That will get us very far (Massapequa in your case).
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All these issue these two "little Hitlers" are putting forth are indeed valid points, when isolated from American foreign policy, but these issues would have a lot more resonance and acclaim around the world if our government stopped bombing the shit out of innocent people, embargoing countries, financing terrorists in "enemy" states and accept international law.
Since we do not accept anything from anyone at anytime, anything (compromise-wise) we say afterwards is just simply OFFICIAL BULLSHIT. Foreign policy-wise: we catch it, we cook it and we eat it. The rest of the world (unless you're talking about out lap dogs the Brits and some Pacific island that will disappear from the map once the oceans rise another 3 inches) does not believe anything we say. We have no face in the international forums (unless you're talking about business forums and corrupt foreign officials). This ought to be a red flag.
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I don't think that's what he's saying, ...but based on many of your statements, ...it appears to be what you're saying with regards to Muslims.
And why is that? Why is it that countries like Iran for instance (who used to be secular) have whole-heartedly embraced an Islamic revolution? What were the factors that brought this about? What was it they rejected that made them seek solace in the arms of Islam?
That is the one of the stupidest arguments you've ever brought forth on these boards, ...and you've brought many.
And why is it that many muslim societies, ...despite their tremendous wealth (oil) are unable to match certain standards so prevalent in the west? I don't know about you, but I'd bet if bombs started falling in Hawaii, it wouldn't be so hot as a vacation spot anymore.
What you refer to as the 'modern attrocities of Islam' is in fact the 'modern attrocities of perverse fanatics' who do not represent Islam any more than neocon represent traditional Republican values.
I think he see through your transparent agenda of inciting hatred towards Muslims.
Your insistence on making your arguments in the Political board rather than on the Religion board supports this.
You've accused me and any others who've refused to dive head first into your cesspool of hate of being Muslims.
I would think that would be the atheist argument. But again, this thread is on the wrong board.
Well you don't know a thing about islamic ideology and its methods of submitting of people. Islam was created by man in a time of barbarianism, the countries influenced by it since this time (through jihad) are still under the heavy cloak of its desire to make nations submit to its cruel ways. People when given the choice chose not to live under sharia law, but under the political climate and restrictions on critical debate within these nations islam cannot be removed from power.
It's not stupid, disprove the point. Money of course is a key reason, money is a entity with inherent values that can be traded for services or items. The increase in money makes the standard of living higher.
Arabic countries aren't like the west for numerous reasons, religion, culture, climate, geography. If you really want to own yourself, research what the Arab governments themselves do with the money. You can't accept that anything other than US foreign policy is to blame.
Modern atrocities of islam are performed within accordance of the koran - pretty simple.
You are a fool, I don't intend to direct hatred towards MUSLIMS, I intend to direct scrutiny and critical debate about the FACTS of ISLAM. Show me where I direct "hate" towards individual MUSLIMS and not the islamic ideology they subscribe to.
Berserker can chose to move this if he wants. But you're wrong, this is definitely a political issue.
Slapper, you're a tool, go and open a thread criticizing US foreign policy and I might have something critical to say. The reality here is that we're not discussing that.
They are, but when it comes to wholesale mass murder, if you're worst than I am, why in the hell would you criticise me for killing a few thousands if you've killed half a million people yourself?
This is retard and redundant.
George is right, it's not worth debating with you clowns because it gives your position credibility.
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The guy can't hold himself. Eurotrash gotta talk about the Muslims and how bad their religion is and how much it sucks and how big of a danger it is... That is the very same rhetoric dished out by the Nazis as soon as they got to power. God knows what they did to the Jewish communities all over Europe.
God I fucking hate fascists!!
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God I fucking hate fascists!!
Then why are you defending fascist Islam? ???
All the arguments I've seen presented by Nordic have to do with the religion of Islam and how it is used today by radical durkas to terrorize and subdue those that do not subscribe to their warped point of view.
Comparing his views towards a religion to what the Nazis did to the Jews is a stretch.
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Slapper this thread has turned into another mind numbing attempt to make the intentionally blind see. I am american, born in America, lived in NYC my entire life. My father was an immigrint, my mother is first generation.
Your logic and way of thinking is so flawed and out of touch with reality that I am convinced arguing with you is not only beneath me, but a waste of time as well.
Your selective copy and pastes also show me that your not as stupid as you pretend to be because you deliberately chose what to respond to in order to make your inept points seem valid.
Ill let Nordic play retarded ping pong with you. I can't be bothered with this nonsense.
I mean, to the rest of the world it isn't even being discussed: The US government is engaging in state terrorism and has done so for many years. It's only here that we have problems grasping that fact.
psssst: Hey George, I have it on good authority that Slapper is a cute black chick with a smoking hot bod and legs for days :P
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Then why are you defending fascist Islam? ???
All the arguments I've seen presented by Nordic have to do with the religion of Islam and how it is used today by radical durkas to terrorize and subdue those that do not subscribe to their warped point of view.
Comparing his views towards a religion to what the Nazis did to the Jews is a stretch.
Well, you see it shows the weakness in his/Jags position.
I directly criticize islam, and he criticizes MY criticism by aligning me with Nazism / fascism which in itself is easier to attack because of the general consensus of Nazism being evil (and rightly so).
He even admits that islamism (although I think he falsely thinks it has nothing to do with islam / the koran itself - which is false) is disgusting but somehow my criticism isn't valid.
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Then why are you defending fascist Islam? ???
All the arguments I've seen presented by Nordic have to do with the religion of Islam and how it is used today by radical durkas to terrorize and subdue those that do not subscribe to their warped point of view.
Comparing his views towards a religion to what the Nazis did to the Jews is a stretch.
And... which one of my comments actually EVEN REMOTELY SMELLS like I'm defending Islam?
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Well, you see it shows the weakness in his/Jags position.
I directly criticize islam, and he criticizes MY criticism[...]
In that very sentence you've pretty much eliminated w8tlftr's allegation that I defed Islam. You pretty much said it: I criticize your criticism of Islam. Indoingso if you guys think I'm defending Burqas and chopping heads and killing gays, etc; then you're way off the mark. Were I to live in the perfect society where there are no homophobic, racist or sexist problems then I'd have no qualms whatsoever in criticizing the fuck out of everyone. Since I do not live in the perfect society I shut up and work toward getting there.
[...]by aligning me with Nazism / fascism which in itself is easier to attack because of the general consensus of Nazism being evil (and rightly so).[...]
No bloke, you're easy to attack because your argument that we can criticise Islam by itself, without bringing up other religions and negative facts about other religions, shows a level of hypocrisy not seen in many moons. I mean, if you can't look at yourself in the mirror and recognize your faults before you recognize someone else's then there's something really wrong with you.
[...]He even admits that is lamism (although I think he falsely thinks it has nothing to do with islam / the koran itself - which is false) is disgusting but somehow my criticism isn't valid.
No, I said ALL religions are shit, not just Islam. Your opinion of Islam is not Islam itself, I do not understand why you keep insisting it is ("He even admits that is lamism [...] is disgusting but somehow my criticism isn't valid.) I can criticize your opinion on something without criticizing the something itself. For example, I seriously dislike HH6's view of the world as a whole, do I hate the world as a whole? No! Are we on the same page here? I mean, I thought we were headed toward a higher level of understating here but it seems as though you keep insisting on going back to Chapter 1, when I'm almost done with the book!
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In that very sentence you've pretty much eliminated w8tlftr's allegation that I defed Islam. You pretty much said it: I criticize your criticism of Islam. Indoingso if you guys think I'm defending Burqas and chopping heads and killing gays, etc; then you're way off the mark. Were I to live in the perfect society where there are no homophobic, racist or sexist problems then I'd have no qualms whatsoever in criticizing the fuck out of everyone. Since I do not live in the perfect society I shut up and work toward getting there.
No bloke, you're easy to attack because your argument that we can criticise Islam by itself, without bringing up other religions and negative facts about other religions, shows a level of hypocrisy not seen in many moons. I mean, if you can't look at yourself in the mirror and recognize your faults before you recognize someone else's then there's something really wrong with you.
No, I said ALL religions are shit, not just Islam. Your opinion of Islam is not Islam itself, I do not understand why you keep insisting it is ("He even admits that is lamism [...] is disgusting but somehow my criticism isn't valid.) I can criticize your opinion on something without criticizing the something itself. For example, I seriously dislike HH6's view of the world as a whole, do I hate the world as a whole? No! Are we on the same page here? I mean, I thought we were headed toward a higher level of understating here but it seems as though you keep insisting on going back to Chapter 1, when I'm almost done with the book!
No, islam CAN be criticized exclusive of any other religion - that is the KEY point you can't get into your head. You want to bring up the self berating of the west everytime you criticize anywhere else in the world then fine, you do that. I'm not inclined to do that, and technically it doesn't weaken my position.
If islamism results in something bad, I can criticize that without wasting energy criticizing a mutually exclusive religion.
Islamism is islam.
My opinion is of islam itself - point out where this isn't true and I'll do my best to refute it.
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No, islam CAN be criticized exclusive of any other religion - that is the KEY point you can't get into your head.
Again, for the umpteenth time, yes you can, but if you criticize something that you can be criticized for yourself then that makes you a hypocrite. And this is what you DO NOT understand.
[...]You want to bring up the self berating of the west everytime you criticize anywhere else in the world then fine, you do that. I'm not inclined to do that, and technically it doesn't weaken my position.
Yes it does! How can you criticize anyone, anything for mass murder when your government is also engaged in wholesale mass murdering itself? Woudn't it make more sense you to to criticize your own government, which is MUCH closer to you and something you have some control over, rather than pointing out someone else's flaws when yours are even greater?!
If islamism results in something bad, I can criticize that without wasting energy criticizing a mutually exclusive religion.
Sure, but are you ready to accept the criticism from an Islamist about your society, religion or government? Would you accept that criticism as valid? If so, would you be open to compromise and change that which you and the Islamists do not like about each other?
My opinion is of islam itself - point out where this isn't true and I'll do my best to refute it.
That's not true. In some of your comments you criticise some radical extremists, in others you criticise the human rights violations in states where Islam is the de facto law of the land. You are, in essence, criticising a minority and their radical interpretation of the Koran, which you've personalized in the term "Islam". The truth is Islam hasn't killed a single soul. It's us humans who have missinterpreted the writings of an asshole and gone killin' in his name.
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Again, for the umpteenth time, yes you can, but if you criticize something that you can be criticized for yourself then that makes you a hypocrite. And this is what you DO NOT understand.
Yes it does! How can you criticize anyone, anything for mass murder when your government is also engaged in wholesale mass murdering itself? Woudn't it make more sense you to to criticize your own government, which is MUCH closer to you and something you have some control over, rather than pointing out someone else's flaws when yours are even greater?!
Sure, but are you ready to accept the criticism from an Islamist about your society, religion or government? Would you accept that criticism as valid? If so, would you be open to compromise and change that which you and the Islamists do not like about each other?
That's not true. In some of your comments you criticise some radical extremists, in others you criticise the human rights violations in states where Islam is the de facto law of the land. You are, in essence, criticising a minority and their radical interpretation of the Koran, which you've personalized in the term "Islam". The truth is Islam hasn't killed a single soul. It's us humans who have missinterpreted the writings of an asshole and gone killin' in his name.
I do criticize my government... in other threads... directed at that topic. The severity of flaws is subjective, you're one who choses to berate the west, so the bias is clear to see.
I read about muslim's criticism of my society all the time. Some points do have validity, but their methods are flawed and ruins their position.
I criticise ISLAMISM, it is ISLAM. I criticize the human rights violations which ISLAM promotes. Radical interpretation? Sorry old man, just exposed you know nothing about the koran. Nazism didn't kill a single soul then has it?
Logical fallacy: If we have misinterpreted muhammads writings, then he's not the asshole, then surely we are ???
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I do criticize my government... in other threads... directed at that topic. The severity of flaws is subjective, you're one who choses to berate the west, so the bias is clear to see.
Again. Your shortsightedness is the stuff of legends my friend! I do not berate the West. That's what YOU are saying I do. I say Christians are in no moral position to criticise any other religion. They MAY THINK they've got the moral high ground, but in reality they do not.
read about muslim's criticism of my society all the time. Some points do have validity, but their methods are flawed and ruins their position.
Like who? Casey Kasem? Paula Abdul?
I criticise ISLAMISM, it is ISLAM. I criticize the human rights violations which ISLAM promotes. Radical interpretation? Sorry old man, just exposed you know nothing about the koran. Nazism didn't kill a single soul then has it?
Ok, then you must be the oddest guy this side of Fuckinstan then. If you criticize someone's actions or interpretation of something you are not criticizing the something, you are criticizing the actions and interpretations. So far, by what I've read of you, you tend to criticise headchoppings, the backwardness of some of their societies, homophobia, etc, which are not exclusive of Muslim countries and may be written about in the Koran, but so too in the Bible (no queers), by the by.
As far as your Nazism comment goes... Islam is based on people's total submission to God through the Koran. Nazism is total adherence to the policies of Nazi government. Excellent point! ::) ::) ::)
Logical fallacy: If we have misinterpreted muhammads writings, then he's not the asshole, then surely we are ???
No, the Muslims/Christians/Jews that have taken God's writings well out of context and kill people in his/her name. They are the assholes.
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Slapper, seriously just shut the fuck up. You lost this argument. You've been reduced to grasping at straws and making outlandish claims and plain old bold faced lies. When you're reduced to that point, you've lost an argument. No amount of spam, cursing, bombardment of text is going to change that. You're obviously too fucking dense to even debate this issue (just like Jag the Ape) and your only mode of attack is spewing fallacies. It seems to be the modus operandi of the apologists here. Make up bullshit claims while not refuting any of them or providing any facts.
In other words, STFU.
It's a political thread by the way, started by ME. Not religious, despite your apologist attempts to make it look like that.
Well, you see it shows the weakness in his/Jags position.
I directly criticize islam, and he criticizes MY criticism by aligning me with Nazism / fascism which in itself is easier to attack because of the general consensus of Nazism being evil (and rightly so).
He even admits that islamism (although I think he falsely thinks it has nothing to do with islam / the koran itself - which is false) is disgusting but somehow my criticism isn't valid.
Comes with dealing with people with IQ's under 100 here. They can't grasp anything beyond what their inferior minds tell them. They have to thump their chest and throw out lies to sound intelligent. They don't possess the ability to refute any points made and their only response is to scream louder.
Dealing with a child with a GED while having such disgust for the West that nothing can be debated without bringing them into it and a woman who claims to have the same IQ as Einstein while making a career out of working with a criminal peddling fraudulent "gas caps" and herbal cures for SARS.
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By the way Slapper, here's some little tid bits of information for you as you try to claim that Muslims really aren't all that bad and that they really don't kill that many people (LOL!).
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.
Islamic terrorists murder more people everyday than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.
19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.
Monthly Jihad Report
July 2008
Jihad Attacks:
200
Countries:
22
Religions:
5
Dead Bodies:
926
Critically Injured:
2075
Weekly Jihad Report
Aug 16 - Aug 22
Jihad Attacks:
44
Dead Bodies:
370
Critically Injured:
413
Over 11,721 attacks carried out by islamists since 9/11 ALONE.
Can't deny facts, champ.
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And... which one of my comments actually EVEN REMOTELY SMELLS like I'm defending Islam?
You defend it by arguing against his assertion that it is presently a religion of terror and oppression.
It may not be your intention to defend it but you are.
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Ok, then you must be the oddest guy this side of Fuckinstan then. If you criticize someone's actions or interpretation of something you are not criticizing the something, you are criticizing the actions and interpretations. So far, by what I've read of you, you tend to criticise headchoppings, the backwardness of some of their societies, homophobia, etc, which are not exclusive of Muslim countries and may be written about in the Koran, but so too in the Bible (no queers), by the by.
As far as your Nazism comment goes... Islam is based on people's total submission to God through the Koran. Nazism is total adherence to the policies of Nazi government. Excellent point! ::) ::) ::)
No, the Muslims/Christians/Jews that have taken God's writings well out of context and kill people in his/her name. They are the assholes.
The point is I know it's in the Bible, yet I can discuss and criticise islams stance on homosexuality without mentioning the Bible and my point is JUST AS VALID.
The koran is definitive, it has laws and an ideological setting which is vastly different than the Bible.
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I do not berate the West. That's what YOU are saying I do. I say Christians are in no moral position to criticise any other religion. They MAY THINK they've got the moral high ground, but in reality they do not.
No, the Muslims/Christians/Jews that have taken God's writings well out of context and kill people in his/her name. They are the assholes.
No you do berate the West as if you actually live in a Middle Eastern country.
Yeah I can't believe those pesky Jews, and Christians declared a holy war this century, and mum "kill the infidels" as they strap themselves with plastic and walk into crowded markets ::)
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I think as my brethren have pointed out, Slapper is fucking idiot who makes no sense and presents arguments based on illogical subjective rhetoric. Lets just kill this topic once and for all. PS- This WAS a topic about Islam which Slapper and his special Olympics rainbow coalition debate team hijacked into a nonsensical attack on Western civilization and America at large.
I thought mods were supposed to prevent this sort of thing, but I guess they pick and choose which topics to moderate.
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Slapper, seriously just shut the fuck up.
All right, I'm back from actually making a living and paying taxes.
BerzerkFury, I did not ask you to shut up at any point, even when you were saying stupid stuff. Really, retarded stuff. Asking someone to shut up is a very fascist thing to say. You can just as easily click away. My opinion is something I manage. I decide when to shut up.
You lost this argument. You've been reduced to grasping at straws and making outlandish claims and plain old bold faced lies.
That is precisely your argument: You provide nothing but insults and fingerpointing. I mean, give us all a little of your opinions aside from the "I hate Slapper" rhetoric. You say that I've been "reduced" to making "outlandish claims" yet, as with the other shemale, YOU PROVIDE NO PROOF of what is outlandish. You present what is purely YOUR opinion as fact and expect me to take it as such? Fuckface please...
When you're reduced to that point, you've lost an argument.
"Reduced" to what point? What are you talking about? ??? ??? ???
No amount of spam, cursing, bombardment of text is going to change that. You're obviously too fucking dense to even debate this issue (just like Jag the Ape) and your only mode of attack is spewing fallacies.
What fallacies? What are you talking about? I mean, say something that makes you look somewhat like you know what is going on man! Don't just drop a bomb because you read the first two sentences of an argument which you have every right to oppose and then just post the first thing that comes out of your ass. I mean brain.
It seems to be the modus operandi of the apologists here.
But what am I apologizing for? ??? ??? What a bunch of psychos.
Make up bullshit claims while not refuting any of them or providing any facts.
And these "bullshit claims" are.... what??
In other words, STFU.
No I will not.
It's a political thread by the way, started by ME. Not religious, despite your apologist attempts to make it look like that.
Was I the one who redirected this thread toward a more religious tone?
Comes with dealing with people with IQ's under 100 here. They can't grasp anything beyond what their inferior minds tell them.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I could be the smartest guy on earth for all you know. And yet you imply I have an IQ of less than 100. Who is the one making claims here?
Dealing with a child with a GED while having such disgust for the West that nothing can be debated without bringing them into it and a woman who claims to have the same IQ as Einstein while making a career out of working with a criminal peddling fraudulent "gas caps" and herbal cures for SARS.
;D ;D ;D ;D
What a psycho!
;D ;D ;D ;D
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By the way Slapper, here's some little tid bits of information for you as you try to claim that Muslims really aren't all that bad and that they really don't kill that many people (LOL!).
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.
Islamic terrorists murder more people everyday than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.
19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.
Monthly Jihad Report
July 2008
Jihad Attacks:
200
Countries:
22
Religions:
5
Dead Bodies:
926
Critically Injured:
2075
Weekly Jihad Report
Aug 16 - Aug 22
Jihad Attacks:
44
Dead Bodies:
370
Critically Injured:
413
Over 11,721 attacks carried out by islamists since 9/11 ALONE.
Can't deny facts, champ.
So what, in one single of our pseudo-jihaddist attacks we slowly killed over 500,000 people:
Sanctions on Iraq (http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/sanctions/sarticles10/aregenocide.htm) (Arab source).
Sanctions on Iraq (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20011203/cortright) (Western source).
I know "democracy" is the new christianity, but come on!!
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So what, in one single of our pseudo-jihaddist attacks we slowly killed over 500,000 people:
Sanctions on Iraq (http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/sanctions/sarticles10/aregenocide.htm) (Arab source).
Sanctions on Iraq (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20011203/cortright) (Western source).
I know "democracy" is the new christianity, but come on!!
Not comparable. There you go again deflecting criticism from jihadist attacks by comparing them to something mutually exclusive.
Yes the sanctions and events by US foreign policy are questionable, but the direct comparison is where the flaw lies in your argument.
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You defend it by arguing against his assertion that it is presently a religion of terror and oppression.
I am not argueing for Islam. I am saying, and I've said this repeteadly, that Islam is not the only religion of terror and oppresion. That is not argueing FOR Islam. But hey, thinking otherwise is YOUR problem, not mine.
It may not be your intention to defend it but you are.
You just said it: It is not my intention to defend Islam. Yet, you're saying that, in your opinion, "I am" defending Islam. That my friend is YOUR interpretation of the argument. I guess me REPETEADLY speaking out against some of the things religions, including Islam of Christianity, have done on the societies they've able to impregnate, is irrelevant. What is really relevant in your head is that my comments defend Islam, even though I've said otherwise.
I mean, here I am, an atheist from New York, a person who was about 50 yards away from Ground Zero on 09/11, telling people ALL RELIGIONS ARE SHIT, and some people here are accusing me that I am pro-Islam. I mean, if you can't see anything wrong with that then "Joey, turn the lights off and let's get the fuck out of here".
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Not comparable. There you go again deflecting criticism from jihadist attacks by comparing them to something mutually exclusive.
Yes the sanctions and events by US foreign policy are questionable, but the direct comparison is where the flaw lies in your argument.
But back up what you're saying man. Why are they "mutually exclusive"? Just saying so does not make it so. Explain it.
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The point is I know it's in the Bible, yet I can discuss and criticise islams stance on homosexuality without mentioning the Bible and my point is JUST AS VALID.
The koran is definitive, it has laws and an ideological setting which is vastly different than the Bible.
Like I said, you can criticize Iran for wanting to have nukes, or the Indonesian government for killing thousands of innocent human beings. INDOINGSO you're making a hypocritical statement. And if you're OK with making hypocritical statements then... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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No you do berate the West as if you actually live in a Middle Eastern country.
Yeah I can't believe those pesky Jews, and Christians declared a holy war this century, and mum "kill the infidels" as they strap themselves with plastic and walk into crowded markets ::)
No, I do not berate the west. I recognize the fact that our past is not a righteous past, and I do not walk around telling people to shut the fuck up just because I do not agree with them or hand out "christianity-approved" diplomas to all those who do not think that our shit don't smell just as bad as anyone else's. If you call that anti-West then you can pretty much call it good by because our perception of things has skewed so much toward irrational thinking that us killing thousands of people is not the same as Pepe and his three amigos in central America killing 300 natives because they sing in another language or pray to another God.
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But back up what you're saying man. Why are they "mutually exclusive"? Just saying so does not make it so. Explain it.
This is a round robin argument, we could do this all day long. I'm not regurgitating my assertions I've made throughout this thread... over and over...
Like I said, you can criticize Iran for wanting to have nukes, or the Indonesian government for killing thousands of innocent human beings. INDOINGSO you're making a hypocritical statement. And if you're OK with making hypocritical statements then... ;D ;D ;D ;D
What? I can criticise US/Britain for creating a situation which led to the death of a sinful amount of Iraqi people. But in making THAT criticism I don't have to bring in an argument of criticism of islamists do I, and vice versa.
Open a dedicated thread about the occupation if you want and I'll throw in my 2 cents.
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This is a round robin argument, we could do this all day long. I'm not regurgitating my assertions I've made throughout this thread... over and over...
Well, that is because you have common sense after all. I mean, you do have a right to do pretty much anything you want, like jerk off in your house in front of your grandmother, say "I fuck dicks the size of Ron Coleman's arm" while eating turkey on Thanksgiving day with your family, etc. What keeps you from doing stupid shit like that is something called "common sense", it's the little voice inside your head that Jim Carey talked about so much while doing his stand up routine.
I mean, when saying shit, no matter how many shemales are in the choir behind you, when alone... thinking, you eventually hit the wall and realize you just spent all this time and effort in saying something or making a point that is totally irrelevant and ends up making you sound like a total hypocrite. A death here is the same as a death in Iran, Australia or Burkina Fasso. Just because we justify it because of religious reasons or because we're spreading democracy (the new Christianity) is irrelevant.
I invite any of you to visit European or Asian political forums to notice how pissed off 95% of the world is at us for doing the "good deed".
What? I can criticise US/Britain for creating a situation which led to the death of a sinful amount of Iraqi people. But in making THAT criticism I don't have to bring in an argument of criticism of islamists do I, and vice versa.
Open a dedicated thread about the occupation if you want and I'll throw in my 2 cents.
What is it that you hate so much about bringing out the past of other religions when talking about Islam? One HUGE sign that an argument or debate is faulty is that one of the parties tries to condition it. You have tried to condition this argument by saying that you can discuss Islam by itself without bringing in the past of the Christian religion. I understand WHY you tried doing so (because it put you in a higher moral pedestal without making you look like a hypocritical SOB,) but faulty nonetheless.
I mean, you could've started the conversation by saying that some radical Islamic types are big time sons of bitches and I'd agree to that, as well as many other human beings, not because you are Christian or Muslim, but because you, the individual, the human being, haven't killed a soul (or so I think) and can speak about it from a higher moral standpoint.
The main problem with these type of debates is that we, I include myself, consciously toss everything into the pot: Instead of focusing our hate on that minority of Muslims that wants everyone dead unless they take the Mohamed "pledge," we extend the moral boundaries to include all Muslims, when many people know that moderate and liberal, yes liberal Muslims, they do exist; Muslims are scared shitless of the Taliban types, just as much as we are of them or we'd be if we could see what some of what our tax dollars are doing in Guantánamo or Iraq. It's much easier to criticize a country that is knee-deep in wholesale murder and then tries to hide it behind the veil of "democracy" than those who just kill.
Human beings are the same here or in China or India or Botswana. Any idea, religion or thought that makes this point invalid is a danger to human existence in this planet. That's how I see it.
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this thread screams " a brown guy fucked my white girlfriend" ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I present thee XXI century USA: A country of one-liner addicts where ADD reigns supreme, The Quixote is a 3-page cheat sheet and putting "brown" and "long" in the same sentence stimulates people's nipples in a(n) (a)sexual way.
The end of the empire is near my friends.
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this thread screams " a brown guy fucked my white girlfriend" ;D
LOL.
I am/was that brown guy.
I'm just not a durka.
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this thread screams " a brown guy blew up my white girlfriend" ;D
I thought so also
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I present thee XXI century USA: A country of one-liner addicts where ADD reigns supreme, The Quixote is a 3-page cheat sheet and putting "brown" and "long" in the same sentence stimulates people's nipples in a(n) (a)sexual way.
The end of the empire is near my friends.
wow wow wow....just cause some of us think bush is a pos DOES NOT mean we dont love this country..
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wow wow wow....just cause some of us think bush is a pos DOES NOT mean we dont love this country..
What's a "pos"?
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this thread screams " a brown guy fucked my white girlfriend" ;D
...and she liked it better! ;D
ps Toxie - please check your PM's. There's a gas station question in there for you.
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Well, that is because you have common sense after all. I mean, you do have a right to do pretty much anything you want, like jerk off in your house in front of your grandmother, say "I fuck dicks the size of Ron Coleman's arm" while eating turkey on Thanksgiving day with your family, etc. What keeps you from doing stupid shit like that is something called "common sense", it's the little voice inside your head that Jim Carey talked about so much while doing his stand up routine.
I mean, when saying shit, no matter how many shemales are in the choir behind you, when alone... thinking, you eventually hit the wall and realize you just spent all this time and effort in saying something or making a point that is totally irrelevant and ends up making you sound like a total hypocrite. A death here is the same as a death in Iran, Australia or Burkina Fasso. Just because we justify it because of religious reasons or because we're spreading democracy (the new Christianity) is irrelevant.
I invite any of you to visit European or Asian political forums to notice how pissed off 95% of the world is at us for doing the "good deed".
What is it that you hate so much about bringing out the past of other religions when talking about Islam? One HUGE sign that an argument or debate is faulty is that one of the parties tries to condition it. You have tried to condition this argument by saying that you can discuss Islam by itself without bringing in the past of the Christian religion. I understand WHY you tried doing so (because it put you in a higher moral pedestal without making you look like a hypocritical SOB,) but faulty nonetheless.
I mean, you could've started the conversation by saying that some radical Islamic types are big time sons of bitches and I'd agree to that, as well as many other human beings, not because you are Christian or Muslim, but because you, the individual, the human being, haven't killed a soul (or so I think) and can speak about it from a higher moral standpoint.
The main problem with these type of debates is that we, I include myself, consciously toss everything into the pot: Instead of focusing our hate on that minority of Muslims that wants everyone dead unless they take the Mohamed "pledge," we extend the moral boundaries to include all Muslims, when many people know that moderate and liberal, yes liberal Muslims, they do exist; Muslims are scared shitless of the Taliban types, just as much as we are of them or we'd be if we could see what some of what our tax dollars are doing in Guantánamo or Iraq. It's much easier to criticize a country that is knee-deep in wholesale murder and then tries to hide it behind the veil of "democracy" than those who just kill.
Human beings are the same here or in China or India or Botswana. Any idea, religion or thought that makes this point invalid is a danger to human existence in this planet. That's how I see it.
That wasn't my point. My point, and the other guy's points on the matter refute yours. No matter how many times you come back with the same rhetoric nothing changes, that's why I said it's round robin.
The histories of other religions can be brought into context when discussing islam, but my argument (which is valid) is that they can be discussed mutually exclusively. The historical context of Christianity when comparing them to islam in the modern world is fundamentally faulty due to the very nature of societies today compared to 700 years ago.
I never said all muslims are bad, I've clarified this within this very thread. Islam is bad - not individual muslims, although the individual muslims perpetrate the evils of islam.
Islamism and the actions of humans involved are directly linked to islam. Iraq war is directly linked to oil, not Christianity.
this thread screams " a brown guy fucked my white girlfriend" ;D
...and she liked it better! ;D
ps Toxie - please check your PM's. There's a gas station question in there for you.
Wow, this shit is just boring and senseless. Nice demonstration of your 160 IQ Jag. ::)
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That wasn't my point. My point, and the other guy's points on the matter refute yours. No matter how many times you come back with the same rhetoric nothing changes, that's why I said it's round robin.
How does your point refute mine? Just saying that makes you sound like a 5-year old with the "my dad is stronger than your dad" argument. And the reason it does not refute my point is that YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF READING. Had you read what I've been saying all along you'd find out that I've agreed to the fact that you can indeed criticise Islam by itself, but you are not willing to hear Islamic criticism of you (hence you bringing up the "straw man's" argument and all that bullshit". Since you will not accept any criticism from the other group of people you are criticising that makes you a hypocrite. If you're OK with being a hypocrite and making comments based on hypocritical ignorance, be my guest, although please do not curse us who criticise the flaws in your arguments out!
The histories of other religions can be brought into context when discussing Islam, but my argument (which is valid) is that they can be discussed mutually exclusively.
But why do you insist in conditioning someone's argument to your advantage. I mean, when having an argument you can say pretty much what you want, I'm not conditioning your argument at all, but why would you try to control what I have to say? Are you that autocratic?
The historical context of Christianity when comparing them to Islam in the modern world is fundamentally faulty due to the very nature of societies today compared to 700 years ago.
The "700 years ago" argument has been refuted. You know that. Don't play stupid. We're talking about 50 years ago even.
I never said all Muslims are bad, I've clarified this within this very thread. Islam is bad - not individual Muslims, although the individual Muslims perpetrate the evils of Islam.
No, you did not "clarify" your argument, you backpedaled your argument like a little bitch at a state hearing. Again, it's not "individual Muslims," its "a very small Muslim minority".
Islamism and the actions of humans involved are directly linked to Islam. Iraq war is directly linked to oil, not Christianity.
True, but they are defending themselves from an attack. Whether they do it as Baathists or as Mohamed's Saturday Night's Boom-Boom Unit is irrelevant. The ones who initiated the hostilities was US, the Democracy-Loving Brigade. If you do not want a re-action, do not act. Simple.
I mean, you entice someone to trade blows with you and when you bring your boys with you and the other guy brings his boys to the fight... and all you have to complaint about is that they are all Boy Scout members? I think it'd be more logical to complaint about the fact that they're kicking the shit out of you and your boys, not the fact that they are fanatical in nature.
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How does your point refute mine? Just saying that makes you sound like a 5-year old with the "my dad is stronger than your dad" argument. And the reason it does not refute my point is that YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF READING. Had you read what I've been saying all along you'd find out that I've agreed to the fact that you can indeed criticise Islam by itself, but you are not willing to hear Islamic criticism of you (hence you bringing up the "straw man's" argument and all that bullshit". Since you will not accept any criticism from the other group of people you are criticising that makes you a hypocrite. If you're OK with being a hypocrite and making comments based on hypocritical ignorance, be my guest, although please do not curse us who criticise the flaws in your arguments out!
But why do you insist in conditioning someone's argument to your advantage. I mean, when having an argument you can say pretty much what you want, I'm not conditioning your argument at all, but why would you try to control what I have to say? Are you that autocratic?
The "700 years ago" argument has been refuted. You know that. Don't play stupid. We're talking about 50 years ago even.
No, you did not "clarify" your argument, you backpedaled your argument like a little bitch at a state hearing. Again, it's not "individual Muslims," its "a very small Muslim minority".
True, but they are defending themselves from an attack. Whether they do it as Baathists or as Mohamed's Saturday Night's Boom-Boom Unit is irrelevant. The ones who initiated the hostilities was US, the Democracy-Loving Brigade. If you do not want a re-action, do not act. Simple.
I mean, you entice someone to trade blows with you and when you bring your boys with you and the other guy brings his boys to the fight... and all you have to complaint about is that they are all Boy Scout members? I think it'd be more logical to complaint about the fact that they're kicking the shit out of you and your boys, not the fact that they are fanatical in nature.
I wasn't the one imposing censorship, you did in my criticising islam. In this thread alone you said I cannot criticise islam because of what Christianity and my country has done in the past. You've done it in other threads before too I think.
50 years ago? You mean Nazism? Hahaha, as if that can be compared to the islamism of today.
Seriously comrade, this is getting boring now. No matter how many superficial words you use in your next post, from my perspective and the perspective of others (except ProteinFarts the local pseudo-islamist and Jag the far left nut case) you're wrong.
Arguing with you in this thread is clearly nonsensical, everything I said in this thread still stands, but I'm out in regards to reply to further posts of yours on the same rhetoric.
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What's a "pos"?
piece of shyt
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...and she liked it better! ;D
:-* of course she did babydoll! it ws me! ;D
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Wow, this shit is just boring and senseless. Nice demonstration of your 160 IQ Jag. ::)
oooo i sence a touch of sensitivity.....did i hit close to the truth flubber?
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There's a gas station question in there for you.
LMFAO
Oh brother.
vroom vroom
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LMFAO
Oh brother.
vroom vroom
More like "boom boom" as the engine diarrheas all over the place.
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oooo i sence a touch of sensitivity.....did i hit close to the truth flubber?
Nope...
Do you honestly think any sane woman would want a fat/skinny alcoholic coke-head paki vampire to have sex with them? The women you get must be totally revolting :-X
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a fat/skinny alcoholic coke-head paki vampire
LOL, OK, no offense PF, but that was funny. Never in another millions years will we hear the phrase, "fat/skinny alcoholic cokehead paki vampire" used... This was a once in a million lifetimes experience :D
That's a tripple B movie from hell right there...
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My only dubious statement there was "vampire" :D
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My only dubious statement there was "vampire" :D
yea, but the whole line together was priceless. I like PF but that was funny shit.
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yea, but the whole line together was priceless. I like PF but that was funny shit.
Haha, so you agree ;D
Quoted for historical reference.
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Haha, so you agree ;D
Quoted for historical reference.
I didn't mean it like that. Me and PF have had our war, I don't want to restart it. I have no beef with him. but the comment was funny. I'll leave it at that if it's cool with you.
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I didn't mean it like that. Me and PF have had our war, I don't want to restart it. I have no beef with him. but the comment was funny. I'll leave it at that if it's cool with you.
Sorry buddy, no deal, thanks for adding your weight to my assertions.
What was your war about? How many casualties did you suffer? Who was the victor?
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Sorry buddy, no deal, thanks for adding your weight to my assertions.
What was your war about? How many casualties did you suffer? Who was the victor?
I don't even remember. Probably over something minor that went overboard.
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I wasn't the one imposing censorship, you did in my criticising islam. In this thread alone you said I cannot criticise islam because of what Christianity and my country has done in the past. You've done it in other threads before too I think.
You see? YOU CANNOT READ! ;D ;D ;D ;D
I've said to you that you can critizice Islam as much as you want, by itself, by compaing it to a Harlem church choir or José's and María's Seven Day Adventist Church in the south Bronx. What I said is that IN DOING SO you are making a hypochritical statement. That is not CONDITIONING your point, that is CRITICISING your point. Holy shit, you're incapable of grasping very basic concepts! You want to limit what I have to say. I want to correct what YOU have to say. There's a difference.
As far as the rest of the argument, as usual, nothing but baseless accusations: "you've done it in other threads brefore too I think". Where? Do me a favor, PASTE A LINK TO THAT THREAD!
50 years ago? You mean Nazism? Hahaha, as if that can be compared to the islamism of today.
Yes, I am comparing it. Do you want to limit my argument on that too?
Seriously comrade, this is getting boring now. No matter how many superficial words you use in your next post, from my perspective and the perspective of others (except ProteinFarts the local pseudo-islamist and Jag the far left nut case) you're wrong.
Ahhhh! Hiding behind the "people think I'm right" argument! You didn't even know what the word "pseudo" meant malaka!
Arguing with you in this thread is clearly nonsensical
Yet you keep doing it.
everything I said in this thread still stands
Stands as what? I beg to differ!
but I'm out in regards to reply to further posts of yours on the same rhetoric.
That's because you're a hypochrite and you know it!
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You see? YOU CANNOT READ! ;D ;D ;D ;D
I've said to you that you can critizice Islam as much as you want, by itself, by compaing it to a Harlem church choir or José's and María's Seven Day Adventist Church in the south Bronx. What I said is that IN DOING SO you are making a hypochritical statement. That is not CONDITIONING your point, that is CRITICISING your point. Holy shit, you're incapable of grasping very basic concepts! You want to limit what I have to say. I want to correct what YOU have to say. There's a difference.
As far as the rest of the argument, as usual, nothing but baseless accusations: "you've done it in other threads brefore too I think". Where? Do me a favor, PASTE A LINK TO THAT THREAD!
Yes, I am comparing it. Do you want to limit my argument on that too?
Ahhhh! Hiding behind the "people think I'm right" argument! You didn't even know what the word "pseudo" meant malaka!
Yet you keep doing it.
Stands as what? I beg to differ!
That's because you're a hypochrite and you know it!
Right, what I suggested you was doing is attempting to censor critical discussion of islam without bringing EVERY other religion into play to make it non-hypocritical. You're going off at a strange tangent now having been forced into a corner. It's simply not hypocritical to discuss islam void of the criticism of any other religion.
You can compare other religions, but don't bitch and moan like you have in this thread when everyone turns round with the general notion that comparing the Christianity of 700 years ago isn't valid when criticising the islam of today.
You're saying Nazism is the Christian comparison of Islamism? If so, that's absolutely fallacious.
Here you go:
Nordic Superman dixit: "Did they also describe how islam openly condones slavery, polygamy, child molestation and muslim supremacism?". Your first statement insinuates that Islam... well, you be the judge. My response was that we're in no position to critizize Islam, from any angle. My use of Guantánamo was just a recent example of that.
FLIP FLOP, FLIP FLOP!
Seriously, give up.
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I assume you've given up Slapper?
"My response was that we're in no position to critizize Islam, from any angle."
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LMFAO
Oh brother.
vroom vroom
kinda been around the biz/ real estate world since i ws 15 bro...
:-\
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kinda been around the biz/ real estate world since i ws 15 bro...
:-\
Wow, impressive, I hear Microsoft might be looking for a CEO.
Slapper, you are man enough to concede in this debate or what? ???
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Did we or did we not conclude that a torture chamber was found in a mosque?
Oh... and that hasn't been done in a Christian religion in at least 500-600 years.
Someone tell the Muslims that it's 2008... I don't think they got the memo.
That is all.
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Did we or did we not conclude that a torture chamber was found in a mosque?
Oh... and that hasn't been done in a Christian religion in at least 500-600 years.
Someone tell the Muslims that it's 2008... I don't think they got the memo.
That is all.
I think the real conclusion here is Slapper's immense hypocrisy and his jihad on anything anti-islamism.
One more time for old times sake:
Nordic Superman dixit: "Did they also describe how islam openly condones slavery, polygamy, child molestation and muslim supremacism?". Your first statement insinuates that Islam... well, you be the judge. My response was that we're in no position to critizize Islam, from any angle. My use of Guantánamo was just a recent example of that.
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Right, what I suggested you was doing is attempting to censor critical discussion of islam without bringing EVERY other religion into play to make it non-hypocritical.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
What a friggin retard. You cannot read my friend! If you could the lameass shit you just posted would make you hit the backspace key until you got to the beginning of your message. You're telling me that I'm "censoring critical discusion" by bringing in all other religions? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You tried LIMITING my arguments by stubbornly inviting me to focus only on Islam. I DID NOT force you to talk about all religions. You did so yourself, making some really dumb observations in the process. So if you say that my "forcing" you to talk about all other religions is a form of censorship then you pretty much full of shit, because you did so yourself. If you keep insisting it is, then you'd be admitting that I've got veto power over your brain. And I'm sure you have something to say about that.
You're going off at a strange tangent now having been forced into a corner.
Another lameass stupid remark based on nothing and for which you present no examples, no data, nothing. Half of your discourse is baseless shitloads of verbal ego with no content behind it whatsoever.
It's simply not hypocritical to discuss islam void of the criticism of any other religion.
And how is it not hypocritical? I mean, half of the Islamic world is ruled by thugs we've helped into power, their countries invaded and humiliated over and over by the US, Russia and the UK, so is it any wander a good part of political Islam has radicalized itself? Who are we, westerners, to discuss negatively or criticize a group of people (and their beliefs) for their behaviour when our governments have actively (and us passively) been a major contributor to the worsening of the behaviour itself? There's only one pedestal from which you can safely and morally stand (in the west) criticising that which you're partly to blame: HYPOCHRISY!
You can compare other religions, but don't bitch and moan like you have in this thread when everyone turns round with the general notion that comparing the Christianity of 700 years ago isn't valid when criticising the islam of today.
It isn't valid because you say so and expect me to take it as fact (as usual) or because you do not want to hear it?
You're saying Nazism is the Christian comparison of Islamism? If so, that's absolutely fallacious.
No! I believe you were making a comparison between the Islam and Christianity of today, which, of course, in historic terms would be an inaccurate thing to do as WE'RE bombing the shit out of their countries, while Christian states are not even under any attacks. I'd like to see the reaction in the Christian states when a Muslim superpower repeatedly bombs, invades, attacks, humiliates and puts "puppets" in power in various Christian states. I'd like to hear what you'd be spewing out then. In any case, Christianity has shown, over and over and over and many times over its potential for intolerance, and one must not go that far back to find some of that intolerance, that's where my comments about the Nazis & Christianity come in and you've taken out of context... because you cannot read!
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
What a friggin retard. You cannot read my friend! If you could the lameass shit you just posted would make you hit the backspace key until you got to the beginning of your message. You're telling me that I'm "censoring critical discusion" by bringing in all other religions? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You tried LIMITING my arguments by stubbornly inviting me to focus only on Islam. I DID NOT force you to talk about all religions. You did so yourself, making some really dumb observations in the process. So if you say that my "forcing" you to talk about all other religions is a form of censorship then you pretty much full of shit, because you did so yourself. If you keep insisting it is, then you'd be admitting that I've got veto power over your brain. And I'm sure you have something to say about that.
Another lameass stupid remark based on nothing and for which you present no examples, no data, nothing. Half of your discourse is baseless shitloads of verbal ego with no content behind it whatsoever.
And how is it not hypocritical? I mean, half of the Islamic world is ruled by thugs we've helped into power, their countries invaded and humiliated over and over by the US, Russia and the UK, so is it any wander a good part of political Islam has radicalized itself? Who are we, westerners, to discuss negatively or criticize a group of people (and their beliefs) for their behaviour when our governments have actively (and us passively) been a major contributor to the worsening of the behaviour itself? There's only one pedestal from which you can safely and morally stand (in the west) criticising that which you're partly to blame: HYPOCHRISY!
It isn't valid because you say so and expect me to take it as fact (as usual) or because you do not want to hear it?
No! I believe you were making a comparison between the Islam and Christianity of today, which, of course, in historic terms would be an inaccurate thing to do as WE'RE bombing the shit out of their countries, while Christian states are not even under any attacks. I'd like to see the reaction in the Christian states when a Muslim superpower repeatedly bombs, invades, attacks, humiliates and puts "puppets" in power in various Christian states. I'd like to hear what you'd be spewing out then. In any case, Christianity has shown, over and over and over and many times over its potential for intolerance, and one must not go that far back to find some of that intolerance, that's where my comments about the Nazis & Christianity come in and you've taken out of context... because you cannot read!
::)
I didn't limit your argument of bringing in other religions, it's your stance on censoring debate. You say I'm an hypocrite not discussing islam in regards to Christianity 700 years ago, YOU'RE the one imposing things: "I'm not having this! Critical discussion of islam without insulting all religions?!?!?! No! You MUST listen to what my superiority complex ridding mind thinks is the right way! You MUST discuss Christianity, otherwise you're a HYPOCRITE!" :-\
You're just exposing yourself as a liberal apologist, no spewing opinions with no foundation in logic. Islam has also been political since day one, it's one of the core concepts, it is the authority on personal life and government. You clearly know nothing about its political ideologies. Listing to you thinking it's somehow radicalised by the UK and Russia... yeah I'm sure they're to blame over the jihad across Africa, Spain, central Asia and expulsion of Jews from the Arabian peninsula... ::)
Yeah, Westerners, by virtue of being born in the Western world are not allowed to give critical discussion or "discuss negatively" the other parts of the world, because according to you it's hypocritical. Does this mean we can only discuss them positively? Hahaha seriously, give up on life if you're THIS fucking stupid.
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::)
I didn't limit your argument of bringing in other religions, it's your stance on censoring debate.
No shit! Really?? You've been bitching and moaning about how we always have to bring in other religions when talking about Islam, the "straw man" argument bullshit story, etc. No, your stance has always been that of framing the debate to a spectrum of arguments you're comfortable with and that involve only Islam. And I tell you why you do this: You're trying to argument someone else's point of view and are getting frustrated that you are not able to get me to say "yes Nordic, you are right". And the reason is simple: It's not that you can't argue, it's that the argument you're using is invalid from a moral standpoint, hence defenceless from any angle and hence your insistence to stick to Islam. Another thing that boggles my mind is that you've said you're an atheist, but, at the same time, show a special "hatred" toward Islam. A true atheist will tell you that we could wipe out asses with the bible, the torah or the koran and not give a shit about it. I don't. We do not give a shit about ANY religion. Neither on more than the other.
You say I'm an hypocrite not discussing islam in regards to Christianity 700 years ago, YOU'RE the one imposing things: "I'm not having this! Critical discussion of islam without insulting all religions?!?!?!
But that's not imposing, that is exposing. I'm not forcing you to NOT talk about Islam alone, that is ALL your free choice my friend. On the other hand you've tried repeteadly to direct the conversation to arguments that are more "diglestible" or "akin" to your opinion, and expect all to elaborate on it as though it is correct and we all agree on it. Well... nope, it ain't. It's like when American media ask people about the "fairness" of our "free market economy". The question is a loaded question, an invalid question too, as our economic model does not follow that of the free market economy. Why would you critizise me if I tell you we do not have a free market economy?
"No! You MUST listen to what my superiority complex ridding mind thinks is the right way! You MUST discuss Christianity, otherwise you're a HYPOCRITE!"; "You're just exposing yourself as a liberal apologist, no spewing opinions with no foundation in logic"; "You clearly know nothing about its political ideologies. Listing to you thinking it's somehow radicalised by the UK and Russia[...]
See what I'm saying? ::) ::)
Yeah, Westerners, by virtue of being born in the Western world are not allowed to give critical discussion or "discuss negatively" the other parts of the world, because according to you it's hypocritical. Does this mean we can only discuss them positively? Hahaha seriously, give up on life if you're THIS fucking stupid.
For the UMPTEENTH TIME: You can discuss anything you want positively or negatively, but in discussing Islam you're making a hypochritical statement. This is so because you refuse to apply the same standards, or lack thereof, to other religions, avoiding, or trying to avoid, comparative criticism so that the actual spectrum of arguments runs from "I hate Islam and wish all muslims dead" to "well, Muslims aren't all bad," but nothing else.
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No it's not hypocritical.
No matter how smart or correct you think you are, you're wrong.
My response was that we're in no position to critizize Islam, from any angle.
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No it's not hypocritical.
No matter how smart or correct you think you are, you're wrong.
Yeah, you have no qualms whatsoever in saying that you are an atheist and all your hate is focused on Islam.
One big "hyp" is what you are.
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Yeah, you have no qualms whatsoever in saying that you are an atheist and all your hate is focused on Islam.
One big "hyp" is what you are.
OK brother, whatever you say, sadly all your hate is focused on crippling critical discussion of islam and deviating the tirade against it towards Christianity :-\
Well done on making yourself look like a tool in this thread.
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OK brother, whatever you say, sadly all your hate is focused on crippling critical discussion of islam and deviating the tirade against it towards Christianity :-\[...]
And why would you feel it's a "tirade" against Christianity? If you were a true atheist you'd be cheering me on.