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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: boonstack on August 30, 2008, 08:01:50 AM
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Just got of age to own, and im going to pick one out. I dont know jackshit about guns, but i "did" almost blow my big toe off with a 9mm by accident! ::)
what do u suggest that would allow deepest penetration to cranium upon "attacker"
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.38 revolver . It's the only way to go
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Just got of age to own, and im going to pick one out. I dont know jackshit about guns, but i "did" almost blow my big toe off with a 9mm by accident! ::)
what do u suggest that would allow deepest penetration to cranium upon "attacker"
calm down gloria ::)
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H&K Compact USP .40 caliber. End of thread
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.45 cal preferably a 1911 or a Glock
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Glock 27 - 40 caliber baby glock that fits anywhere.
Glock 26 - 9mm baby glock that fits anywhere.
Keltec p-32 for your pocket gun.
AR-15 for when hurricane shuts down power and looters decide to test Darwinism.
Mossberg pistol grip pump for when you want to blow up fruit at the gun range for shits n giggles.
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H&K Compact USP .40 caliber. End of thread
poor mans Glock
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Glock 27 - 40 caliber baby glock that fits anywhere.
Glock 26 - 9mm baby glock that fits anywhere.
Keltec p-32 for your pocket gun.
AR-15 for when hurricane shuts down power and looters decide to test Darwinism.
Mossberg pistol grip pump for when you want to blow up fruit at the gun range for shits n giggles.
I used to have the Keltec .32 I was not happy with it
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Just got of age to own, and im going to pick one out. I dont know jackshit about guns, but i "did" almost blow my big toe off with a 9mm by accident! ::)
what do u suggest that would allow deepest penetration to cranium upon "attacker"
translation=you're 128 pounds soaking wet and couldn't outfight a woman so you need a gun to be intimidating.
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I used to have the Keltec .32 I was not happy with it
It's not amazing... a walther PPK might be a tad preferable.
Its not the most fun thing to shoot, but for a pocket rocket when you can't carry a glock comfortably, it gets the job done.
I forgot about the Walther PPk, james bond's old gun. Very cool weapon. Turns your thumb into grated cheese when you put 400 rounds thru it in an afternoon, but has a safety and is built very well.
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traslation=you're 128 pounds soaking wet and couldn't outfight a woman so you need a gun to be intimidating.
Hey, bad guys don't always fight fair. You never know when two piece of shit 14-year olds with switchblades, bats, or a gun will decide to end you. In a perfect world, none of us would need them. In this world, they do save peoples' asses now and then.
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translation=you're 128 pounds soaking wet and couldn't outfight a woman so you need a gun to be intimidating.
even if that was the case the gun tilts the odds in his favor
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AR-15 for when hurricane shuts down power and looters decide to test Darwinism.
Thats what the Koreans were using during the L.A. riots needless to say their shops didn't get looted.
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poor mans Glock
LMAO. You mean the Glock is a poor man's H&K
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LMAO. You mean the Glock is a poor man's H&K
Not when it comes to pistols , H&K make the finest sub-machine guns and rifles but their pistols aren't any better than Glock
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Not when it comes to pistols , H&K make the finest sub-machine guns and rifles but their pistols aren't any better than Glock
Maybe true. The MP5 is an amazing weapon.
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translation=you're 128 pounds soaking wet and couldn't outfight a woman so you need a gun to be intimidating.
yes, burglaries and muggings only happen to "big guys". You probably don't have to worry about them though, as not much value can come from a trailer.
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Maybe true. The MP5 is an amazing weapon.
absolutely among the finest sub-machine gun ever devised.
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yes, burglaries and muggings only happen to "big guys". You probably don't have to worry about them though, as not much value can come from a trailer.
sorry man just being honest, why do you need a gun, can't you fight?
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sorry man just being honest, why do you need a gun, can't you fight?
maybe he has low testosterone level?
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240 is the man here
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You can't be expected to be taken seriously in this argument, can you? Seriously, everyone else in here is providing logical and rational answers, not you. Since apparently you are not capable of rational thought, post elsewhere.
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Find one that best fits your budget and hand. Rent before buying if possible. If you want the best for busting skulls you need a Smith and Wesson 500. ;D
(http://www.internetguncatalog.com/igc/pics/large/26652.jpg)
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You can't be expected to be taken seriously in this argument, can you? Seriously, everyone else in here is providing logical and rational answers, not you. Since apparently you are not capable of rational thought, post elsewhere.
you're talking about buying a handgun to "protect yourself" from "muggers" and i'm the one who can't be taken seriously? where do you live Beirut in 1982? sounds like you've seen Death Wish a few too many times. ::)
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id be upset if this was my girlfriend too, dave..
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you're talking about buying a handgun to "protect yourself" from "muggers" and i'm the one who can't be taken seriously? where do you live Beirut in 1982? sounds like you've seen Death Wish a few too many times. ::)
Would you feel safe walking through a shitty area unarmed?
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Find one that best fits your budget and hand. Rent before buying if possible. If you want the best for busting skulls you need a Smith and Wesson 500. ;D
(http://www.internetguncatalog.com/igc/pics/large/26652.jpg)
talk about impractical lol
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id be upset if this was my girlfriend too, dave..
hahahahaa, ok "boon" go buy your little handgun if it makes you feel like more of a man, try not to shoot yourself or anyone who looks at you crosseyed, also make sure to check the closet for the boogeyman before you go to bed at night as well. :D
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well we cant all be just hardcore and "livin it up" like you... ::)
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hahahahaa, ok "boon" go buy your little handgun if it makes you feel like more of a man, try not to shoot yourself or anyone who looks at you crosseyed, also make sure to check the closet for the boogeyman before you go to bed at night as well. :D
it can happen anywhere ;)
August 28, 2008
EAST STROUDSBURG - It's a night time shopper's nightmare. You buy groceries, go to your car, and someone tries to rob you at gunpoint.
Police say Joshua Eastman, 28, of East Stroudsburg was unloading groceries at his car shortly before 12:45 a.m. today when Reneau Jean Jacques, 17, of 77 Symphony Circle, East Stroudsburg, pointed a handgun at him and demanded that he hand over his money.
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Eastman looked around for help or someone to yell to. The alleged robber continued to demand money. Eastman replied that he did not have any money - that he used a debit card to pay for his purchases.
Jacques became more threatening, pointing the gun and using a more menacing tone of voice.
Eastman then took out his wallet and pushed the door of his truck more open to put it between himself and the suspect. Jacques pointed his gun at Eastman's face.
Eastman dropped his wallet and started ducking down. Jacques fired a shot that went through the window of the door almost striking Eastman and causing flying glass from the car window to cut his face.
Eastman pulled out a handgun he was carrying and fell to the ground. He returned fire under the truck's door with his pistol while the teen continued to fire his weapon.
Eastman shot Jacques in the lower leg and foot. Then Eastman ran back toward the store as the teen fled towards Friendly's restaurant.
Jacques fled into a landscaped island of bushes and trees in the parking lot. Stroud Area Regional Police were on the scene almost immediately and found him hiding and trying to bury a handgun in the mulch. He originally claimed to be a victim before police determined he was likely the one who started the trouble.
"It appears to be an armed robbery that went badly for the suspect because he picked an armed customer," said Sgt. James Wielgus.
On Thursday afternoon, Jacques, using crutches and wearing a long hospital gown over hospital pants, sat with a numb look on his face during his preliminary arraignment in East Stroudsburg Magisterial District Judge Michael Muth’s courtroom. Jacques, a Shawnee Academy student with a prior juvenile record, spoke in a subdued tone when addressed by the judge.
Jacques is charged as an adult with attempted murder, robbery, aggravated assault, crimes committed with guns and illegal possession of a gun, all felonies, and reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor. He hung his head and sighed after the judge told him he could face up to 30 years in prison if convicted of the most serious charge, attempted murder.
Jacques was taken to Pocono Medical Center for treatment. Police detained two other youths for questioning. They were in a car, trying to flee the scene, according to witnesses and police.
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id be upset if this was my girlfriend too, dave..
LMAO ;D :D
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I'd suggest the Smith & Wesson Sigma 40cal. I own one - it's reasonably priced.
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Ask this guy.
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When you find the one you want, look up CDNN Investments and give them a call and see if they have one and at what price. Their prices are usually very good.
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Don't buy a gun. Guns should only be for the police, military and criminals. ::)
But seriously, I only have a 12ga mossberg shotgun so I can't really recommend a handgun. But when I do get a handgun I plan on getting a Glock 20 10mm because I spend a lot of time out in the woods and it is effective against large animals as well as the human variety.
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It's not amazing... a walther PPK might be a tad preferable.
Its not the most fun thing to shoot, but for a pocket rocket when you can't carry a glock comfortably, it gets the job done.
I forgot about the Walther PPk, james bond's old gun. Very cool weapon. Turns your thumb into grated cheese when you put 400 rounds thru it in an afternoon, but has a safety and is built very well.
I have a pre war PPK. They're really cool pistols.
What do you think of the PPS 240?
I'd really like to buy one.
(http://www.carlwalther.com/images/2685213_1.jpg)
(http://waltherpps.com/overlay.jpg)
(http://images.concealedcarryforum.com/pps/2.jpg)
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=954
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This one is nice.
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What irritates me, is that you have to be 21 to buy handgun Ammunition.
So before I go to the range I need an "adult" to buy me ammo. ::)
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I'd suggest the Smith & Wesson Sigma 40cal. I own one - it's reasonably priced.
RB, did you hear about the 14 and 15 year olds that went on that beating spree in Pontiac a few days ago, they killed at least one person, if not more, not sure. Good idea cutting half the police force in Pontiac, huh? I want to go to Arts, Beats and Eats tonight, but how safe can it be down there? No cops, end of the month so the welfare checks are gone, that town has gone to hell. It will be like the D in 10 years time.
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Beretta 96F.
Good times.
But get Deicides' gun if you have the $$$ for the ammo!
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thanks for replies everyone. I'm really just doing it for protection. It is childish to assume you wont ever need it.
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Are crime levels that bad all over America that everyone needs to own a gun just to "feel safe"...?
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RB, did you hear about the 14 and 15 year olds that went on that beating spree in Pontiac a few days ago, they killed at least one person, if not more, not sure. Good idea cutting half the police force in Pontiac, huh? I want to go to Arts, Beats and Eats tonight, but how safe can it be down there? No cops, end of the month so the welfare checks are gone, that town has gone to hell. It will be like the D in 10 years time.
No missed that one. I've been off work all summer so I haven't paid much attention to anything. Pontiac's been a shit hole a long time & the lack of cops makes it even worse. Hell, Detroit is probably safer then Pontiac. As for the Art, Beats, & Eats - fuck that noise. I worked it about ten years ago & it scarred me for life.
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H&K Compact USP .40 caliber. End of thread
Excellent choice if you have the money.
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Not when it comes to pistols , H&K make the finest sub-machine guns and rifles but their pistols aren't any better than Glock
I'd rank them
1. HK
2. Sig
3. Glock
10. Everything else.
I'd only carry top 3. Fired HKs, loved them. Carried a Sig for 2 years, loved that beyotch so much.
been a glock man for 9 years tho. They're just so reliable and you can beat the hell out of them and they keep right on working.
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I have a pre war PPK. They're really cool pistols.
What do you think of the PPS 240?
I'd really like to buy one.
Okay - but it's a poor man's glock. They did everything to copy glock with that one.
There's a reason most cops in the USA carry glocks. You can count on them. I have owned cheap guns, and they jam up. Glocks no not jam, do not fail.
I'd recommend getting one of the top 3- HK, sig, or glock. Nothing else.
For pocket rocket, anything fun will work - PPk, p32, etc. But that's your backup piece. You need a real weapon - at least a 9mm, and at least top 3 quality.
My brother shot a dude in the gut with a 45 and he lived, made it across the state for surgery---- a 32 or some shit small caliber like that isn't going to stop a guy from killing you too.
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Okay - but it's a poor man's glock. They did everything to copy glock with that one.
There's a reason most cops in the USA carry glocks. You can count on them. I have owned cheap guns, and they jam up. Glocks no not jam, do not fail.
I'd recommend getting one of the top 3- HK, sig, or glock. Nothing else.
For pocket rocket, anything fun will work - PPk, p32, etc. But that's your backup piece. You need a real weapon - at least a 9mm, and at least top 3 quality.
My brother shot a dude in the gut with a 45 and he lived, made it across the state for surgery---- a 32 or some shit small caliber like that isn't going to stop a guy from killing you too.
Cool, thanks for the feedback. No matter the subject you always have good info.
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I agree with a few guys on this thread. I like the glock models...all of them. It just depends on what your wants and needs are.
I prefer the Glock 23-it is their mid sized .40 cal pistol (like 240 said the 27 is the concealable while the 22 is the full size semi)
Sigs are also highly recommended.
I have never shot a HK so I have no opinion on it.
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I'm saving to buy a H&K (.45), well worth the money. Also had ( & wish I would have kept it) a Sig P-239.Just bought the new Beretta PX 4 Storm & absolutely love it.
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Just got of age to own, and im going to pick one out. I dont know jackshit about guns, but i "did" almost blow my big toe off with a 9mm by accident! ::)
what do u suggest that would allow deepest penetration to cranium upon "attacker"
Take a basic course and don't get your gun recs and advice from a bb.ing site for starters. Try one of the better forums such as
http://www.thehighroad.org
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poor mans Glock
Glock is a poor mans HK son. HK invented the polymer pistol BTW, not Glock.
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I'd rank them
1. HK
2. Sig
3. Glock
For what use and what population? The average non dedicated shooter? Basic civi and or general LEO? For people that just want a well made reliable gun that needs little upkeep, I agree, get a Glock, etc. As Hilton Yam said:
"For non-dedicated personnel, they are better served by a modern, low maintenance weapon such as a Glock, SIG, or HK."
However, there is one gun and one gun only that sits on top of the handgun world, and that's the 1911. That's why
LAPD SWAT, USSOCOM, USMC Det-1, USMC MEUSOC, FBI HRT, FBI SWAT, and many other top combat shooters use it. The average cop will get a Glock, and the high end combat shooters on their SWAT/RRT teams will use a 1911. The average LEO is not a gun person by nature, nor very well trained in the use of their service weapons. The 1911 also owns all your shooting competitions also, and for good reason. As Mr Yam says:
"A tuned 1911 is a high performance machine capable of allowing the skilled user to reach his maximum performance potential.For a dedicated and knowledgeable end user, the 1911 has no equal."
Or as Larry Vickers put it so well:
"GIs carrying 1911s defeated Axis forces, including Austrians. The 1911 was winning battles and saving lives before Gaston Glock was even born - somewhere along the way we probably figured out a thing or two on combat handguns."
They're just so reliable and you can beat the hell out of them and they keep right on working.
They break just like any other gun. In the 10 man SWAT team I was training, 2 Glocks went FUBAR in 12 weeks of training. Not one Sig did that BTW. Glocks are perfectly good well made guns (if you can stand the horrible ergonomics, the crappy trigger, and sh*% sites) but there are far better and most of what people think about Glocks is perpetuated by Glock... ::)
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H&K Compact USP .40 caliber. End of thread
Exactly what I own...... nice
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I own several firearms but when I carry, I carry a .22. Unless you just plan on taking on an entire military you have no need for anything else. That being said I prefer the Walther P22
1. THE highest level of concealability (this isn't the wild west no need to show off)
2. More than enough powerful (you'll never need to shoot from a greater distance than a P22 is capable)
3. Big caliber = ignorance or small penis' ;D Considering if you do have to defend yourself and you use a large caliber, in court it's hard to prove that you were only acting for personal defence. Trust me there's precedence
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Or just ask his guy
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj69/jdfarnsy/august2009-thumb.jpg (http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj69/jdfarnsy/august2009-thumb.jpg)
:D
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how big are your hands?
i have rather large hands, so most of my handguns are .45s. the handles on a 45(except the 1911) are always going to be bigger due to a large round that is double stacked in a magazine.
if you go with 45
1)h&k USP tactical 45 (what i carry at work, and some tours in the sandbox)
2)glock 21 (the aftermarket is endless,i really recommend this one.i love mine)
40s&w
1)glock 23 (it is the midsize version, but it is the best feeling and shooting handgun i own)
2)glock 22 (i really don't like to shoot this one,but it is a prooven shooter)
9mm
1)glock 17
2)berretta 92f
i listed no compacts for a reason,you really need to practice basic shooting fundamentals before you make a decision to get a CHL. then when your ready, you can do whatever you want and you will acquire a taste for what you like in a gun.But as far as practice goes the learning process goes, compacts only make you develop bad habits
now if you choose a glock,send me a pm or start a thread. because i can help you make that thing a beast that will put $2000+ handguns to shame.
bench
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how big are your hands?
i have rather large hands, so most of my handguns are .45s. the handles on a 45(except the 1911) are always going to be bigger due to a large round that is double stacked in a magazine.
if you go with 45
1)h&k USP tactical 45 (what i carry at work, and some tours in the sandbox)
2)glock 21 (the aftermarket is endless,i really recommend this one.i love mine)
40s&w
1)glock 23 (it is the midsize version, but it is the best feeling and shooting handgun i own)
2)glock 22 (i really don't like to shoot this one,but it is a prooven shooter)
9mm
1)glock 17
2)berretta 92f
i listed no compacts for a reason,you really need to practice basic shooting fundamentals before you make a decision to get a CHL. then when your ready, you can do whatever you want and you will acquire a taste for what you like in a gun.But as far as practice goes the learning process goes, compacts only make you develop bad habits
now if you choose a glock,send me a pm or start a thread. because i can help you make that thing a beast that will put $2000+ handguns to shame.
bench
No SIG in the 40S&W ?
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No SIG in the 40S&W ?
its all about preference, and even though i think Sig make a damn fine handgun(one of the best) they are the most uncomfortable handguns made.
you will not find many novice shooters(like the one who started this thread) that will be comfortable behind a Sig. the Sig lacks a major ergonomic that a novice shooter needs. that ergo is a natural point of aim which the other weapons i mentioned have.
and if you read my previous post, you will see where i mentioned he would eventually acquire a taste for what he wants in a handgun. when that time comes he might really like the Sig, but for now i think it would just be a expensive investment that he wouldn't be satisfied with.
bench
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brink- agree completely on the 1911 for those purposes.
i was just keeping it simple for him in the personal handgun defense department.
the last thing i'd recomment to a newbie for carry is a 1911.
glock 26 or 27 is the best bat, value, dependability, IMO.
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the last thing i'd recomment to a newbie for carry is a 1911.
Agreed. ;)
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I own several firearms but when I carry, I carry a .22. Unless you just plan on taking on an entire military you have no need for anything else. That being said I prefer the Walther P22
1. THE highest level of concealability (this isn't the wild west no need to show off)
2. More than enough powerful (you'll never need to shoot from a greater distance than a P22 is capable)
3. Big caliber = ignorance or small penis' ;D Considering if you do have to defend yourself and you use a large caliber, in court it's hard to prove that you were only acting for personal defence. Trust me there's precedence
The only precedence in the above is you clearly don't know sh&^ about guns, terminal ballistics, or the laws regarding SD. I have not seen that much terrible advice and incorrect advice in a single post in a long time and why I tell people not to get their advice on such issues on bb.ing forums.
If you want to trust your life to a .22, that's your business, but don't spew ignorance about the topic with "you have no need for anything else." The "precedence" is, the 9mm is considered the minimum SD rnd by the experts in the field, and the reason most police depts have switched from the 9mm to the .40., was due to the lack of potency of the 9mm, much less a .22
Terminal ballistics for the handgun rnds are well known and well established. Legally, from personal defense perspective, your best bet is to find out what caliber and brand your local PD uses and carry that, generally Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT, or Federal, in 9mm or .40., with a small % of depts using .357 Sig or .45 ACP
That's the advice you will get from those who actually deal with such things. ::)
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its all about preference, and even though i think Sig make a damn fine handgun(one of the best) they are the most uncomfortable handguns made.
you will not find many novice shooters(like the one who started this thread) that will be comfortable behind a Sig. the Sig lacks a major ergonomic that a novice shooter needs. that ergo is a natural point of aim which the other weapons i mentioned have.
and if you read my previous post, you will see where i mentioned he would eventually acquire a taste for what he wants in a handgun. when that time comes he might really like the Sig, but for now i think it would just be a expensive investment that he wouldn't be satisfied with.
bench
My SIG fits my hand just fine, thank you......then again, so does my S&W. :P
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It's not amazing... a walther PPK might be a tad preferable.
Its not the most fun thing to shoot, but for a pocket rocket when you can't carry a glock comfortably, it gets the job done.
I forgot about the Walther PPk, james bond's old gun. Very cool weapon. Turns your thumb into grated cheese when you put 400 rounds thru it in an afternoon, but has a safety and is built very well.
I love my PPK/S but if given the chance to do over I wouldn't buy one.
Accuracy is marginal and this gun LOVES to jam up.
I like the new Walther P99 series.. much better quality.
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I love my PPK/S but if given the chance to do over I wouldn't buy one.
Accuracy is marginal and this gun LOVES to jam up.
I like the new Walther P99 series.. much better quality.
Makes no sense in this day and age to carry a Walther ppk. You now have modern handguns that are approx the same size shooting a more effective rnd (9mm or .40) that are very reliable. For example, the Kahr PM series:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_pm.html
Very reliable, well built, and amazingly accurate. If one wants a PPK for the historical factor, that's cool, but it's time has passed a long time ago as a choice for personal SD.
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44 Automag with a 9" barrel
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Makes no sense in this day and age to carry a Walther ppk. You now have modern handguns that are approx the same size shooting a more effective rnd (9mm or .40) that are very reliable. For example, the Kahr PM series:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_pm.html
Very reliable, well built, and amazingly accurate. If one wants a PPK for the historical factor, that's cool, but it's time has passed a long time ago as a choice for personal SD.
Agreed. I would definitely like a 40 S&W with a few more rounds in the clip and better reliability and accuracy.
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Agreed. I would definitely like a 40 S&W with a few more rounds in the clip and better reliability and accuracy.
Kahr is the way to go then. ;)
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My SIG fits my hand just fine, thank you......then again, so does my S&W. :P
you know whats funny, all these people try real hard to get a CHL and i am REQUIRED to carry one when i am not at work, and i still dont.I always have my AR in the truck, and most of the time i have one of my sniper rifles, not because i might need it, just because i was too lazy to carry it in the house ;D
bench
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Kahr is the way to go then. ;)
kahr does make a fine concealed handgun,when i was in iraq and astan a few guys would carry them as a last ditch back up.I see alot of guys in LE use them for off duty now that i am in this line of work .
i have never shot one though
bench
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kahr does make a fine concealed handgun,when i was in iraq and astan a few guys would carry them as a last ditch back up.
Man, if you are reaching for your sub compact Kahr in Iraq, now THAT'S some last ditch sh&% right there! :o
I see alot of guys in LE use them for off duty now that i am in this line of work .
They are approved as back up for NYPD and other major depts.
i have never shot one though
bench
They shoot AMAZINGLY well for such a small gun with a great out of the box smooth trigger, although a long pull being DAO.
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You should ask this dude:
(http://www.kamikazeedriver.com/i/wopat.png)
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Man, if you are reaching for your sub compact Kahr in Iraq, now THAT'S some last ditch sh&% right there! :o
They are approved as back up for NYPD and other major depts.
They shoot AMAZINGLY well for such a small gun with a great out of the box smooth trigger, although a long pull being DAO.
that aint no shit, its more appealing than a KBAR though.That shit makes it almost impossible to clean out your fingernails ;D
bench
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I agree -
a .22 isn't enough to save your life in a shootout. You can kill small varmints with it. But you sure can't stop a man from killing you should he also be firing a weapon.
a 45, 40, and maybe 9, hit center mass, may make him reconsider.
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I agree -
a .22 isn't enough to save your life in a shootout. You can kill small varmints with it. But you sure can't stop a man from killing you should he also be firing a weapon.
a 45, 40, and maybe 9, hit center mass, may make him reconsider.
What about the good ole trusty .357 revolver? Would that make him reconsider?
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What about the good ole trusty .357 revolver? Would that make him reconsider?
i took a .357 revolver off of a crackhead last night, i really dont think the damn thing would shoot though. the handle was broken and was wrapped with packing foam and scotch tape, the inside of the barrel was really rusty (think clumps) and the outside surface was pitted. He only had one bullet in it too, and it was in worse shape than the gun ;D
or you can do what i do, just leave your EDM windrunner 408 in the backseat of your truck. nothing says get the fuck away like a bullet that puts a 50BMG to shame ;D
after how much i paid for the gun + optics, you would think i would take it out of my truck at night ;D
http://www.edmarms.com/products/m408.htm
bench
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I agree -
a .22 isn't enough to save your life in a shootout. You can kill small varmints with it. But you sure can't stop a man from killing you should he also be firing a weapon.
a 45, 40, and maybe 9, hit center mass, may make him reconsider.
May...come on Rob. You hit someone in the chest with a 40cal (that's not wearing any type of body armour) & 90% of the time you'll drop them.
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Springfield XD40 or XD9 are a better bet than a Glock in my opinion, but dont take my word for it. Compare the 2 head to head and you'll see.
Kimber ultra carry is nice to in 40 or 45sm
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Springfield XD40 or XD9 are a better bet than a Glock in my opinion, but dont take my word for it. Compare the 2 head to head and you'll see.
Kimber ultra carry is nice to in 40 or 45sm
I think that's the gun my friend has. Honestly I didn't much care for it.
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I think that's the gun my friend has. Honestly I didn't much care for it.
i didnt like it either,i also saw a couple of design flaws.
bench
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May...come on Rob. You hit someone in the chest with a 40cal (that's not wearing any type of body armour) & 90% of the time you'll drop them.
Yes, but he may still kill you as well.
My brother hit a guy in the gut with a 45 caliber hollow point - it mushroomed and planted itself in his spine, and the pilled up junkie still managed to run to his car (trailing blood and feces mind you), then ride to miami where he got surgery under his uncle's name.
The guy had already scaled a counter and was aiming his weapon at my brother. After being hit, he managed to keep his gun, spin around, and jump headfirst over the counter, then scramble out door as shots #2,3,4,5 missed him.
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Yes, but he may still kill you as well.
My brother hit a guy in the gut with a 45 caliber hollow point - it mushroomed and planted itself in his spine, and the pilled up junkie still managed to run to his car (trailing blood and feces mind you), then ride to miami where he got surgery under his uncle's name.
The guy had already scaled a counter and was aiming his weapon at my brother. After being hit, he managed to keep his gun, spin around, and jump headfirst over the counter, then scramble out door as shots #2,3,4,5 missed him.
..
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Yes, but he may still kill you as well.
My brother hit a guy in the gut with a 45 caliber hollow point - it mushroomed and planted itself in his spine, and the pilled up junkie still managed to run to his car (trailing blood and feces mind you), then ride to miami where he got surgery under his uncle's name.
The guy had already scaled a counter and was aiming his weapon at my brother. After being hit, he managed to keep his gun, spin around, and jump headfirst over the counter, then scramble out door as shots #2,3,4,5 missed him.
If you can't kill a guy with a .45 then you really shouldn't be shooting a gun. Go to the range and practice.
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If you can't kill a guy with a .45 then you really shouldn't be shooting a gun. Go to the range and practice.
oh brother.
He's filling scripts when suddenly two men enter the store and one jumps over counter. He has about .5 second to end the threat before he gets killed. As he uses his cupped hand and forearms to shield head and upper chest vitals and runs through a cluttered pharmacy backwards to elude the threat pointing a gun at him, he only manages to draw his concealed weapon and hit the man in the belly, about 1/2 inch from his belly button.
I guess it's easy to be an armchair hero, when it's not happening to you. he didn't see it coming, yet still had the recovery to elude threat and fire.
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The only precedence in the above is you clearly don't know sh&^ about guns, terminal ballistics, or the laws regarding SD. I have not seen that much terrible advice and incorrect opinion in a single post in a long time and why I tell people not to get their advice on such issues on bb.ing forums.
If you want to trust your life to a .22, that's your business, but don't spew opinion about the topic with "you have no need for anything else." The "precedence" is, the 9mm is considered the minimum SD rnd by the small penis', and the reason most police depts have switched from the 9mm to the .40., was due to the lack of potency of the 9mm, much less a .22
Terminal ballistics for the handgun rnds are well known and well established. Legally, from personal defense perspective, your best bet is to find out what caliber and brand your local PD uses and carry that, generally Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT, or Federal, in 9mm or .40., with a small % of depts using .357 Sig or .45 ACP
That's the advice you will get from those who actually deal with such things. ::)
Personal attack on forum discussion including big caliber for defence = Small penis :D
.22 = just fine
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Perfect time for a gun with the market meltdown and everything. You might have to use it sooner than expected, when everone goes apeshit over the collpase. lol
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I think that's the gun my friend has. Honestly I didn't much care for it.
Im suprised, in head to head tests in several magazines it consistantly out scored the Glock, but a side arm really is a personal choice. If its not comfortable you wont carry it and if its at home its useless
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Personal attack on forum discussion including big caliber for defence = Small penis :D
.22 = just fine
LOL... .22 is fine for varmint hunting.
I sure wouldn't want to be holding a 22 when two armed guys came at me.
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If you can't kill a guy with a .45 then you really shouldn't be shooting a gun.
If you don't know anything about the topic of terminal ballistics, you shouldn't be handing out advice.
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.22 = just fine
Already covered. Those ignorant of the topic should not be handing out advice that might get others killed. Name a single authority on the topic of self defense, terminal ballistics, or related areas, who recommends a .22 as a primary defense weapon. You an expert the likes of a Larry Vickers now?* Name a single PD that uses a .22. Explain why most PDs have gone from the 9mm to the .40, due to the poor terminal ballistics performance. You don't know sh&^ and are not qualified to give any advice here. If you want to carry a .22 as your SD weapon of choice, that's your business. Stupid, but your business.
* And if you don't know who that is, all the more reason to keep your mouth shut.
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LOL... .22 is fine for varmint hunting.
And small varmints at that!
I sure wouldn't want to be holding a 22 when two armed guys came at me.
True enough. What we can say at least is, the .22 you have on your person is always better then the .357 you left at home. One good thing about the .22, is the gun tends to be very small, which means it hurts less when the BG shoves it up your ass. ;D
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Brink,
You ever see the Lenny McGill DVD "move Shoot live"?
(actually not DVD - I got it on VHS about a decade ago). Very cool stuff.
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Brink,
You ever see the Lenny McGill DVD "move Shoot live"?
Heard of it yes, don't think I have seen it. I am taking a Combative Handgun course with Jeff Gonzales next month. He's owner of Trident Concepts and one of the top combat trainers in the nation. See:
http://www.tridentconcepts.com
CDs and books are good, but nothing replaces actually doing it. His Combative Handgun course is 1,500 rnd course and 3 days long. Most people don't shoot that much in an entire year....Take a course with someone like Larry Vickers, Jeff Gonzales, etc. if you want to take your skills to another level.
I'm also teaching a course spring and fall at Smith n Wesson Academy for tactical LE (SWAT/RRT) called "Advanced Applied Stress Shooting" which is based on what I have been doing with the SWAT teams I work with.
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Heard of it yes, don't think I have seen it. I am taking a Combative Handgun course with Jeff Gonzales next month. He's owner of Trident Concepts and one of the top combat trainers in the nation. See:
http://www.tridentconcepts.com
CDs and books are good, but nothing replaces actually doing it. His Combative Handgun course is 1,500 rnd course and 3 days long. Most people don't shoot that much in an entire year....Take a course with someone like Larry Vickers, Jeff Gonzales, etc. if you want to take your skills to another level.
I'm also teaching a course spring and fall at Smith n Wesson Academy for tactical LE (SWAT/RRT) called "Advanced Applied Stress Shooting" which is based on what I have been doing with the SWAT teams I work with.
you ever work with paul rowe in his csat classes?
he just started doing sniper classes again and i want to send my two new guys to it, but i havent seen any reviews yet.
bench
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Brink, you are A-OK in my book!
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you ever work with paul rowe in his csat classes?
he just started doing sniper classes again and i want to send my two new guys to it, but i havent seen any reviews yet.
bench
I do know of Paul Howe, don't know Paul Rowe, sorry. If he's a sniper trainer, really not my area of interest/focus, so I probably will not have heard of him.
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Already covered. Those ignorant of the topic should not be handing out advice that might get others killed. Name a single authority on the topic of self defense, terminal ballistics, or related areas, who recommends a .22 as a primary defense weapon. You an expert the likes of a Larry Vickers now?* Name a single PD that uses a .22. Explain why most PDs have gone from the 9mm to the .40, due to the poor terminal ballistics performance. You don't know sh&^ and are not qualified to give any advice here. If you want to carry a .22 as your SD weapon of choice, that's your business. Stupid, but your business.
* And if you don't know who that is, all the more reason to keep your mouth shut.
Calm down gloria you sound real intelligent on the subject and obviously know more than I care to about "Terminal bullshitistics" :D and all but this web site is intended for people to discuss their opinions which I have done, if you disagree thats fine. And by the way if 2 thugs come at me with the intentions of harming me and I have a .22 they will die, hell if I have a knife they'd have a bad day. The point of conceal/carry is to dissuade people who want to harm you to leave YOU alone, and any firearm will do the job. Now if you want to kill someone for the sake of killing and make sure they're dead buy a .40.
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Calm down gloria you sound real intelligent on the subject and obviously know more than I care to about "Terminal bullshitistics" :D and all but this web site is intended for people to discuss their opinions which I have done, if you disagree thats fine.
An opinion should be based on something beyond personal perceptions and wishful thinking. "A .22 if fine" is based on nothing and incorrect just as "creatine causes brain cancer" would also be an opinion based on nothing but subjective feeling.
Me, I base my opinions on something beyond subjective feelings and I tend to listen to those who clearly know more than I do on a topic.
And by the way if 2 thugs come at me with the intentions of harming me and I have a .22 they will die,
False, and again, based on ignorance of the topic and wishful thinking on your part. It's also irrelevant. A .22 will kill a person. That's not the issue. Many people are shot with a .22 don't even know they have been shot, and bleed out some time later, often after beating the person to death with their own gun, but I digress. The issue is the speed incapacitation of an attacker, not whether they die or not. I see you are all to happy to pretend you have any knowledge of this topic, and will cling to your perceptions, which appear to be based on watching too many movies and video games or something.
hell if I have a knife they'd have a bad day. The point of conceal/carry is to dissuade people who want to harm you to leave YOU alone, and any firearm will do the job.
Also false. The point of CCW is to have a means of self defense if your life is in danger, not to wave a gun around and hope it dissuades your attacker. In most cases, showing a weapon will in fact stop the attack, but if "any gun will do" then you might as well carry a fake gun. Bottom line is, you hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and CCW something that is a recommended SD gun and round by those who actually know something about the topic.
Now if you want to kill someone for the sake of killing and make sure they're dead buy a .40.
False. So much ignorance in a single post. Congrats. ;)
Now, if you would actually like to understand the topic - and I have a feeling you really don't - probably the most accurate reading on the topic is Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness from the FBI found here:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm
That is a the "must read" document for anyone wishing to get a handle on the topic of terminal ballistics for the non science reader. The Wiki page on "stopping power" does an OK job of covering the issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power
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I would rank them like this....HK, Sig, and Glock. If you can afford an HK Mark 23, get it. You can abuse the shit out of that gun, and all of these for that matter, and they will still fire.
As far as caliber, you can easily kill someone with a 9mm. Hell, the SOF operators, who hate Glocks, will even say if they have to use one that they would use a Glock 19.
Always aim for the biggest target, center mass, but there is nothing wrong with a head shot.
Brink, if I am not mistaken...Paul Howe recommends 4+1 as opposed to a normal failure drill. Is that correct? Have you trained with him?
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I would rank them like this....HK, Sig, and Glock. If you can afford an HK Mark 23, get it. You can abuse the shit out of that gun, and all of these for that matter, and they will still fire.
As far as caliber, you can easily kill someone with a 9mm. Hell, the SOF operators, who hate Glocks, will even say if they have to use one that they would use a Glock 19.
Always aim for the biggest target, center mass, but there is nothing wrong with a head shot.
Brink, if I am not mistaken...Paul Howe recommends 4+1 as opposed to a normal failure drill. Is that correct? Have you trained with him?
I have not trained with Mr Howe, so I don't know the answer there sorry. By all accounts, Howe is top shelf and I would be happy to take a course from him any time.
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I have not trained with Mr Howe, so I don't know the answer there sorry. By all accounts, Howe is top shelf and I would be happy to take a course from him any time.
Roger that, if you have the opportunity to train with a former CAG member...you take it. If the dept I'm trying to get on to allowed 1911's I would certainly invest in a Vickers custom.
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Roger that, if you have the opportunity to train with a former CAG member...you take it.
Damn straight! Jeff G is a well respected former NSW man. Vickers is former CAG, and I hope to take a course some day with either Vickers or Howe after I take the Jeff G course next month.
If the dept I'm trying to get on to allowed 1911's I would certainly invest in a Vickers custom.
If you could get one! I don't think that's at all an easy thing to do... :o
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I do know of Paul Howe, don't know Paul Rowe, sorry. If he's a sniper trainer, really not my area of interest/focus, so I probably will not have heard of him.
he isnt a sniper trainer, he is a blackwater trainer for cqb but he recently just started the sniper training back up.
bench
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I have not trained with Mr Howe, so I don't know the answer there sorry. By all accounts, Howe is top shelf and I would be happy to take a course from him any time.
brink bro i am sorry i meant Howe not Rowe, and triple canopy not blackwater. his csat class is what i used to become swat certified.I have also taken his tactical entry shotgun class taught by him himself a couple of months ago (not just someone with his company)
bench
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.22's are the best for ccw
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brink bro i am sorry i meant Howe not Rowe, and triple canopy not blackwater. his csat class is what i used to become swat certified.I have also taken his tactical entry shotgun class taught by him himself a couple of months ago (not just someone with his company)
bench
Ah, so it was Howe. Cool. My personal interest would be in combative/tactical handgun being a civi, and perhaps a carbine course just for the fun of it. As an adjunct trainer for S&W (see my OptimalSWAT.com site for more info on that), I should be able to take some of their courses, and I am taking the Jeff G course at Sig Academy next month. Fun fun! ;D
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.22's are the best for ccw
Excellent response! ::) :P ::)
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Damn straight! Jeff G is a well respected former NSW man. Vickers is former CAG, and I hope to take a course some day with either Vickers or Howe after I take the Jeff G course next month.
If you could get one! I don't think that's at all an easy thing to do... :o
I would travel to Nagadoches to train with Mr. Howe.
I hear that. The dept I want allows Sigs, HK USP, Beretta and S&W. They're all good guns but being familiar with a Glock makes it a harder transition, at least from working without a safety to using one. I'm just not used to it.
There are some good shooting schools here but certainly not run by ex-CAG guys.
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I would travel to Nagadoches to train with Mr. Howe.
I hear that. The dept I want allows Sigs, HK USP, Beretta and S&W. They're all good guns but being familiar with a Glock makes it a harder transition, at least from working without a safety to using one. I'm just not used to it.
There are some good shooting schools here but certainly not run by ex-CAG guys.
i highly recomend it for any person with a serious interest in the art, i have taken a lot of classes and his were the best. the tactical shotgun was a lot of classroom but at the end i felt i had learned alot.
bench
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Ah, so it was Howe. Cool. My personal interest would be in combative/tactical handgun being a civi, and perhaps a carbine course just for the fun of it. As an adjunct trainer for S&W (see my OptimalSWAT.com site for more info on that), I should be able to take some of their courses, and I am taking the Jeff G course at Sig Academy next month. Fun fun! ;D
part of getting my swat cert was taking his handgun and carbine class, i loved it except for the part were one of his instuctors tried to make change my shooting stance, only to have howe tell me to go back to the way i was doing it before ;D
bench
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Excellent response! ::) :P ::)
lol ;D
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I would travel to Nagadoches to train with Mr. Howe.
I hear that. The dept I want allows Sigs, HK USP, Beretta and S&W. They're all good guns but being familiar with a Glock makes it a harder transition, at least from working without a safety to using one. I'm just not used to it.
There are some good shooting schools here but certainly not run by ex-CAG guys.
cap i have a serious question for you. when are you going to stop bullshitting yourself and become a Texan?
bench
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cap i have a serious question for you. when are you going to stop bullshitting yourself and become a Texan?
bench
Is it the gun posts or my love for chewing tobacco? Actually, once I get on the PD out here I plan to keep my options open and TX is the top of my list?
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Ok guys, so what is the real difference between a Glock and HK? I prefer the Glock 23 (.40 cal midsize model) I know the HKs are very similar in design, but what are the pros and cons for the two?
I'm asking because I'm in the market for one.
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Ok guys, so what is the real difference between a Glock and HK? I prefer the Glock 23 (.40 cal midsize model) I know the HKs are very similar in design, but what are the pros and cons for the two?
I'm asking because I'm in the market for one.
One could list pro's and cons of either, but both are well made guns. You would really need to shoot/handle an HK product to decide for yourself if you like them. As a rule, HK is considered a higher end product than Glocks, and as a general rule, they cost more too. The HK USP .45 is considered one of the best fighting pistols ever built, but there other offerings tend to be hit or miss depending on model and caliber.
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Hands down a potatoe gun. And the ammo is CHEAP!!!
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So did this guy get his gun yet or what?
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Ok guys, so what is the real difference between a Glock and HK? I prefer the Glock 23 (.40 cal midsize model) I know the HKs are very similar in design, but what are the pros and cons for the two?
I'm asking because I'm in the market for one.
Pros HK: Can abuse it and can still shoot, reputable company, has an external safety (if kids or you are an issue), SA firing
Pros Glock: Cheaper than HK, easy to shoot (point and shoot), can put many rounds through (thousands)
Cons HK: Cost (first and foremost), if you're not used to drawing and taking weapon off safe you will have to learn, wider grip (if you have small hands)
Cons Glock: DA firing, no external safety
Like Brink said, both are good guns it's really a matter of preference. Glock is pretty much a no-brainer gun.
Remember though, the 1911 was killing Germans in Normandy before Gaston Glock was even born.
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Pros HK: Can abuse it and can still shoot, reputable company, has an external safety (if kids or you are an issue), SA firing
Pros Glock: Cheaper than HK, easy to shoot (point and shoot), can put many rounds through (thousands)
Cons HK: Cost (first and foremost), if you're not used to drawing and taking weapon off safe you will have to learn, wider grip (if you have small hands)
Cons Glock: DA firing, no external safety
Like Brink said, both are good guns it's really a matter of preference. Glock is pretty much a no-brainer gun.
Remember though, the 1911 was killing Germans in Normandy before Gaston Glock was even born.
you hit the nail on the head with this post. my H&K has never failed me in the streets or sandbox.
but H&K is not for everyone, i personly think the sights sit too high from your natural grip point. I have never really bothered with the matter because i do not use the sights, but for someone asking about buying a first handgun i am still going with a glock 23 (40cal).
and remember everyone hates a glock until they shoot a glock. i know i did,its only natural.
the H&K also has big grips so it may not be comfortable for allot of folks.
bench
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One could list pro's and cons of either, but both are well made guns. You would really need to shoot/handle an HK product to decide for yourself if you like them. As a rule, HK is considered a higher end product than Glocks, and as a general rule, they cost more too. The HK USP .45 is considered one of the best fighting pistols ever built, but there other offerings tend to be hit or miss depending on model and caliber.
to me, through my personal experience there isn't another combat handgun. I will be honest in the fact that i am totally biased on the subject also, but for good reason. My H&K has saved my life several times and has never skipped a beat, it has always taken whatever i could throw at it.
my only real bitch about the H&K is the aftermarket!!!!!
what i wouldn't give for a suitable light bearing level 3 holster, or hell even a decent light set up.
this is were the glocks and the 1911's shine, you can get anything your imagination could dream of for the damn things. its like owning a jeep, your not gonna do or get anything that hasn't been done before. The possibility's are endless.
bench
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From what I hear, the CAG guys swear by their H&K Mark 23's.
I have the option to carry a Sig, HK or Beretta (standard issue) and I think I'm gonna go with H&K, despite the price. Quality trumps price when your life is on the line.
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From what I hear, the CAG guys swear by their H&K Mark 23's.
I have the option to carry a Sig, HK or Beretta (standard issue) and I think I'm gonna go with H&K, despite the price. Quality trumps price when your life is on the line.
they swear by the reliability, and swear at the grip size ;D
like i said i am very biased but if you feel the H&K is comfortable get it, you will never have to by another handgun again unless your like me and have successfully filled up damn near every room in your house with firearms because you cant leave shit alone, or you cant pass up a good deal.
bench
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Pros HK: Can abuse it and can still shoot, reputable company, has an external safety (if kids or you are an issue), SA firing
Pros Glock: Cheaper than HK, easy to shoot (point and shoot), can put many rounds through (thousands)
Cons HK: Cost (first and foremost), if you're not used to drawing and taking weapon off safe you will have to learn, wider grip (if you have small hands)
Cons Glock: DA firing, no external safety
Like Brink said, both are good guns it's really a matter of preference. Glock is pretty much a no-brainer gun.
Remember though, the 1911 was killing Germans in Normandy before Gaston Glock was even born.
Thanks...I have shot a Glock many times and absolutely love it. I just want something fun and reliable to shoot; which is why I will probably buy the Glock.
I would like to take classes at my local gun shop, but I have no idea what to look for in an instructor. Is there anything in particular to look for? I know you guys have listed several combat shooters, but I don't think those are in my area. Also, what about competitive shooting?
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I've wanted an HK 4 for a while, just to play with.
This meant that the pistol could accommodate 4 different calibers by a simple replacement of the barrel, return spring, and the magazine. The four calibers that the pistol could use are: the rimfire .22 LR (5.6 Long Rifle) round; .25 ACP (6.35x16mmSR); .32 ACP (7.65x17mm Browning SR); .380 ACP (9x17mm Short)
(http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hk4-1.jpg)
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I've wanted an HK 4 for a while, just to play with.
(http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hk4-1.jpg)
i didnt know H&K made anything that ugly :o
bench
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i didnt know H&K made anything that ugly :o
bench
8)
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From what I hear, the CAG guys swear by their H&K Mark 23's.
I have the option to carry a Sig, HK or Beretta (standard issue) and I think I'm gonna go with H&K, despite the price. Quality trumps price when your life is on the line.
Word.