About to get a personal handgun - suggestions?

[Rimbaud]

I agree -

a .22 isn't enough to save your life in a shootout.  You can kill small varmints with it.  But you sure can't stop a man from killing you should he also be firing a weapon. 

a 45, 40, and maybe 9, hit center mass, may make him reconsider. 

May...come on Rob. You hit someone in the chest with a 40cal (that's not wearing any type of body armour) & 90% of the time you'll drop them.

[Lord Humungous]

Springfield XD40 or XD9 are a better bet than a Glock in my opinion, but dont take my word for it. Compare the 2 head to head and you'll see.

Kimber ultra carry is nice to in 40 or 45sm

[Rimbaud]

Springfield XD40 or XD9 are a better bet than a Glock in my opinion, but dont take my word for it. Compare the 2 head to head and you'll see.

Kimber ultra carry is nice to in 40 or 45sm

I think that's the gun my friend has. Honestly I didn't much care for it.

[benchmstr]

I think that's the gun my friend has. Honestly I didn't much care for it.

i didnt like it either,i also saw a couple of design flaws.

bench

[240 is Back]

May...come on Rob. You hit someone in the chest with a 40cal (that's not wearing any type of body armour) & 90% of the time you'll drop them.

Yes, but he may still kill you as well. 

My brother hit a guy in the gut with a 45 caliber hollow point - it mushroomed and planted itself in his spine, and the pilled up junkie still managed to run to his car (trailing blood and feces mind you), then ride to miami where he got surgery under his uncle's name. 

The guy had already scaled a counter and was aiming his weapon at my brother.   After being hit, he managed to keep his gun, spin around, and jump headfirst over the counter, then scramble out door as shots #2,3,4,5 missed him.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Yes, but he may still kill you as well. 

My brother hit a guy in the gut with a 45 caliber hollow point - it mushroomed and planted itself in his spine, and the pilled up junkie still managed to run to his car (trailing blood and feces mind you), then ride to miami where he got surgery under his uncle's name. 

The guy had already scaled a counter and was aiming his weapon at my brother.   After being hit, he managed to keep his gun, spin around, and jump headfirst over the counter, then scramble out door as shots #2,3,4,5 missed him.

..

[onlyme]

Yes, but he may still kill you as well. 

My brother hit a guy in the gut with a 45 caliber hollow point - it mushroomed and planted itself in his spine, and the pilled up junkie still managed to run to his car (trailing blood and feces mind you), then ride to miami where he got surgery under his uncle's name. 

The guy had already scaled a counter and was aiming his weapon at my brother.   After being hit, he managed to keep his gun, spin around, and jump headfirst over the counter, then scramble out door as shots #2,3,4,5 missed him.

If you can't kill a guy with a .45 then you really shouldn't be shooting a gun.  Go to the range and practice.

[240 is Back]

If you can't kill a guy with a .45 then you really shouldn't be shooting a gun.  Go to the range and practice.

oh brother.

He's filling scripts when suddenly two men enter the store and one jumps over counter.  He has about .5 second to end the threat before he gets killed.  As he uses his cupped hand and forearms to shield head and upper chest vitals and runs through a cluttered pharmacy backwards to elude the threat pointing a gun at him, he only manages to draw his concealed weapon and hit the man in the belly, about 1/2 inch from his belly button.

I guess it's easy to be an armchair hero, when it's not happening to you.  he didn't see it coming, yet still had the recovery to elude threat and fire. 

[laurion]

The only precedence in the above is you clearly don't know sh&^ about guns, terminal ballistics, or the laws regarding SD. I have not seen that much terrible advice and incorrect opinion in a single post in a long time and why I tell people not to get their advice on such issues on bb.ing forums.

If you want to trust your life to a .22, that's your business, but don't spew opinion about the topic with "you have no need for anything else." The "precedence" is, the 9mm is considered the minimum SD rnd by the small penis', and the reason most police depts have switched from the 9mm to the .40., was due to the lack of potency of the 9mm, much less a .22

Terminal ballistics for the handgun rnds are well known and well established. Legally, from personal defense perspective, your best bet is to find out what caliber and brand your local PD uses and carry that,  generally Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT, or Federal, in 9mm or .40., with a small % of depts using .357 Sig or .45 ACP

That's the advice you will get from those who actually deal with such things. 

Personal attack on forum discussion including big caliber for defence = Small penis 
.22 = just fine

[Bindare_Dundat]

Perfect time for a gun with the market meltdown and everything. You might have to use it sooner than expected, when everone goes apeshit over the collpase. lol

[Lord Humungous]

I think that's the gun my friend has. Honestly I didn't much care for it.

Im suprised, in head to head tests in several magazines it consistantly out scored the Glock, but a side arm really is a personal choice. If its not comfortable you wont carry it and if its at home its useless

[240 is Back]

Personal attack on forum discussion including big caliber for defence = Small penis 
.22 = just fine

LOL... .22 is fine for varmint hunting.

I sure wouldn't want to be holding a 22 when two armed guys came at me.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

If you can't kill a guy with a .45 then you really shouldn't be shooting a gun.

If you don't know anything about the topic of terminal ballistics, you shouldn't be handing out advice.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

.22 = just fine

Already covered. Those ignorant of the topic should not be handing out advice that might get others killed. Name a single authority on the topic of self defense, terminal ballistics, or related areas, who recommends a .22 as a primary defense weapon. You an expert the likes of a Larry Vickers now?* Name a single PD that uses a .22. Explain why most PDs have gone from the 9mm to the .40, due to the poor terminal ballistics performance. You don't know sh&^ and are not qualified to give any advice here. If you want to carry a .22 as your SD weapon of choice, that's your business. Stupid, but your business.

* And if you don't know who that is, all the more reason to keep your mouth shut.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

LOL... .22 is fine for varmint hunting.

And small varmints at that!

I sure wouldn't want to be holding a 22 when two armed guys came at me.

True enough. What we can say at least is, the .22 you have on your person is always better then the .357 you left at home. One good thing about the .22, is the gun tends to be very small, which means it hurts less when the BG shoves it up your ass.

[240 is Back]

Brink,

You ever see the Lenny McGill DVD "move Shoot live"?

(actually not DVD - I got it on VHS about a decade ago).  Very cool stuff.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

Brink,

You ever see the Lenny McGill DVD "move Shoot live"?

Heard of it yes, don't think I have seen it. I am taking a Combative Handgun course with Jeff Gonzales next month. He's owner of Trident Concepts and one of the top combat trainers in the nation. See:

http://www.tridentconcepts.com

CDs and books are good, but nothing replaces actually doing it. His Combative Handgun course is 1,500 rnd course and 3 days long. Most people don't shoot that much in an entire year....Take a course with someone like Larry Vickers, Jeff Gonzales, etc. if you want to take your skills to another level.

I'm also teaching a course spring and fall at Smith n Wesson Academy for tactical LE (SWAT/RRT) called "Advanced Applied Stress Shooting" which is based on what I have been doing with the SWAT teams I work with.

[benchmstr]

Heard of it yes, don't think I have seen it. I am taking a Combative Handgun course with Jeff Gonzales next month. He's owner of Trident Concepts and one of the top combat trainers in the nation. See:

http://www.tridentconcepts.com

CDs and books are good, but nothing replaces actually doing it. His Combative Handgun course is 1,500 rnd course and 3 days long. Most people don't shoot that much in an entire year....Take a course with someone like Larry Vickers, Jeff Gonzales, etc. if you want to take your skills to another level.

I'm also teaching a course spring and fall at Smith n Wesson Academy for tactical LE (SWAT/RRT) called "Advanced Applied Stress Shooting" which is based on what I have been doing with the SWAT teams I work with.

you ever work with paul rowe in his csat classes?

he just started doing sniper classes again and i want to send my two new guys to it, but i havent seen any reviews yet.

bench

[240 is Back]

Brink, you are A-OK in my book!

[www.BrinkZone.com]

you ever work with paul rowe in his csat classes?

he just started doing sniper classes again and i want to send my two new guys to it, but i havent seen any reviews yet.

bench

I do know of Paul Howe, don't know  Paul Rowe, sorry. If he's a sniper trainer, really not my area of interest/focus, so I probably will not have heard of him.

[laurion]

Already covered. Those ignorant of the topic should not be handing out advice that might get others killed. Name a single authority on the topic of self defense, terminal ballistics, or related areas, who recommends a .22 as a primary defense weapon. You an expert the likes of a Larry Vickers now?* Name a single PD that uses a .22. Explain why most PDs have gone from the 9mm to the .40, due to the poor terminal ballistics performance. You don't know sh&^ and are not qualified to give any advice here. If you want to carry a .22 as your SD weapon of choice, that's your business. Stupid, but your business.

* And if you don't know who that is, all the more reason to keep your mouth shut.

Calm down gloria you sound real intelligent on the subject and obviously know more than I care to about "Terminal bullshitistics"    and all but this web site is intended for people to discuss their opinions which I have done, if you disagree thats fine.   And by the way if 2 thugs come at me with the intentions of harming me and I have a .22 they will die, hell if I have a knife they'd have a bad day.  The point of conceal/carry is to dissuade people who want to harm you to leave YOU alone, and any firearm will do the job.  Now if you want to kill someone for the sake of killing and make sure they're dead buy a .40.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

Calm down gloria you sound real intelligent on the subject and obviously know more than I care to about "Terminal bullshitistics"    and all but this web site is intended for people to discuss their opinions which I have done, if you disagree thats fine.

An opinion should be based on something beyond personal perceptions and wishful thinking.  "A .22 if fine" is based on nothing and incorrect just as "creatine causes brain cancer" would also be an opinion based on nothing but subjective feeling.

Me, I base my opinions on something beyond subjective feelings and I tend to listen to those who clearly know more than I do on a topic.

And by the way if 2 thugs come at me with the intentions of harming me and I have a .22 they will die,

False, and again, based on ignorance of the topic and wishful thinking on your part. It's also irrelevant.  A .22 will kill a person. That's not the issue. Many people are shot with a .22 don't even know they have been shot, and bleed out some time later, often after beating the person to death with their own gun, but I digress. The issue is the speed incapacitation of an attacker, not whether they die or not. I see you are all to happy to pretend you have any knowledge of this topic, and will cling to your perceptions, which appear to be based on watching too many movies and video games or something.

hell if I have a knife they'd have a bad day.  The point of conceal/carry is to dissuade people who want to harm you to leave YOU alone, and any firearm will do the job.

Also false.  The point of CCW is to have a means of self defense if your life is in danger, not to wave a gun around and hope it dissuades your attacker. In most cases, showing a weapon will in fact stop the attack, but if "any gun will do" then you might as well carry a fake gun. Bottom line is, you hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and CCW something that is a recommended SD gun and round by those who actually know something about the topic.

Now if you want to kill someone for the sake of killing and make sure they're dead buy a .40.

False. So much ignorance in a single post. Congrats. 

Now, if you would actually like to understand the topic - and I have a feeling you really don't - probably the most accurate reading on the topic is Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness from the FBI found here:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

That is a the "must read" document for anyone wishing to get a handle on the topic of terminal ballistics for the non science reader. The Wiki page on "stopping power" does an OK job of covering the issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power

[Cap]

I would rank them like this....HK, Sig, and Glock.  If you can afford an HK Mark 23, get it.  You can abuse the shit out of that gun, and all of these for that matter, and they will still fire. 

As far as caliber, you can easily kill someone with a 9mm.  Hell, the SOF operators, who hate Glocks, will even say if they have to use one that they would use a Glock 19.

Always aim for the biggest target, center mass, but there is nothing wrong with a head shot.

Brink, if I am not mistaken...Paul Howe recommends 4+1 as opposed to a normal failure drill.  Is that correct?  Have you trained with him?

[www.BrinkZone.com]

I would rank them like this....HK, Sig, and Glock.  If you can afford an HK Mark 23, get it.  You can abuse the shit out of that gun, and all of these for that matter, and they will still fire. 

As far as caliber, you can easily kill someone with a 9mm.  Hell, the SOF operators, who hate Glocks, will even say if they have to use one that they would use a Glock 19.

Always aim for the biggest target, center mass, but there is nothing wrong with a head shot.

Brink, if I am not mistaken...Paul Howe recommends 4+1 as opposed to a normal failure drill.  Is that correct?  Have you trained with him?

I have not trained with Mr Howe, so I don't know the answer there sorry.  By all accounts, Howe is top shelf and I would be happy to take a course from him any time.

[Cap]

I have not trained with Mr Howe, so I don't know the answer there sorry.  By all accounts, Howe is top shelf and I would be happy to take a course from him any time.

Roger that, if you have the opportunity to train with a former CAG member...you take it.  If the dept I'm trying to get on to allowed 1911's I would certainly invest in a Vickers custom.