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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Mark Kerr on September 09, 2008, 08:52:45 AM
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I did not write this; the original author is listed at the end of the post, including her email address. After reading it I felt I had to share it, as widely as possible - it's just too important not to.
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ABOUT SARAH PALIN
I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the residents of the city.
She is enormously popular; in every way she’s like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe".
It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months.
She is "pro-life". She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby.
She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.
She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.
Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin’s kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything like that of native Alaskans.
Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.
She's smart.
Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents.
During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had given rise to a recall campaign.
Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative". During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.
The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration weren’t enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece of property that the City didn’t even have clear title to, that was still in litigation 7 yrs later--to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.
While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once.
These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.
As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.
In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today's surplus, borrow for needs.
She’s not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren’t evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.
While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.
Sarah complained about the "old boy’s club" when she first ran for Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the State’s top cop (see below).
As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla’s Police Chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.
She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn’t like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.
Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.
When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys’ club" when she dramatically quit, exposing this man’s ethics violations (for which he was fined).
As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.
As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects -- which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance -- but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork".
She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.
Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.
As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.
Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State’s lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior’s decision to list polar bears as threatened species.
McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being President.
There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she.
However, there’s a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.
CLAIM vs. FACT:
*Hockey mom: true for a few years
*PTA mom: true years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since
*NRA supporter: absolutely true
*Social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
*Pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it.
*Pro-life: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation
*Experienced: Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on *Supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.
*Political maverick: not at all
*Gutsy: absolutely!
*Open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.
has a developed philosophy of public policy: no
*A "Greenie": no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
*Fiscal conservative: not by my definition!
*Pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.
*Pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents
*Pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla’s history.
*Pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union doesn’t make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.
WHY AM I WRITING THIS?
First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name (Anne Kilkenny + Alaska), you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.
Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "Bad things happen when good people stay silent". Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings.
Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that’s life.
Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the City Librarian against Sarah's attempt at censorship.
Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.
CAVEATS:
I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending & taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor) from information supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust for inflation? for population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall--they are swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.
You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000", up to 9,000. The day Palin’s selection was announced a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-90’s.
Anne Kilkenny
annekilkenny@hotmail.com
August 31, 2008
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If I'm honest I really don't give a shit.
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Sounds like someone has a personal vendetta!
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There will always be haters.
Nice thighs.
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Why is the letter dated August 31, 2008? Hmmmmmmmmm
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It's simple.
If you make OVER $100,000... then the tax policy of Mccain/Palin will benefit you.
if you make UNDER $100,000... then the tax policy of Obama/Biden will beenfit you.
We could make it about all the personal issues, but why?
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Sounds like another fat, angry housewife who's jealous because Palin is smart and bangable.
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Sounds like another fat, angry housewife who's jealous because Palin is smart and bangable.
Palin is not smart.
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It's simple.
If you make OVER $100,000... then the tax policy of Mccain/Palin will benefit you.
if you make UNDER $100,000... then the tax policy of Obama/Biden will beenfit you.
We could make it about all the personal issues, but why?
Well we know who the Getbiggers will vote for. These millionaries cant afford for their millions going to uncle sam
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Sounds like someone has a personal vendetta!
HA! HA! HA! I was going to say sounds like someone's hubby is fond of Sarah and we're having a hard time with jealousy
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Yet somehow her approval rating in the state is over 80%.
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It's simple.
If you make OVER $100,000... then the tax policy of Mccain/Palin will benefit you.
if you make UNDER $100,000... then the tax policy of Obama/Biden will beenfit you.
This has been, and is still, the main driver behind my vote - the candidate that helps my wallet the most.
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This has been, and is still, the main driver behind my vote - the candidate that helps my wallet the most.
Yep. Mccain's campaign adviser Rick Davis said "this election isn't about issues!" He'd prefer to make it about personalities.
It's because for 95% of Americans, Mccain's tax plan will hurt ya. It's that simple.
Most people will debate the good and bad points of the candidates, but face it, if you've made it this far, you're qualified enough. Mccain campaign knows that if people look at this chart - and realize precisely what will happen to their money under each candidate, most will pick obama.
It's your money. Do you want to keep it? Or do you want to get caught up in personality?
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240's posts were paid for and approved by the Obama campaign.
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Palin is not smart.
Palin is light years ahead of "the dumbest man in the senate" Joe Biden.A man who even uses the tragic death of his wife to promote himself.He claims she was killed by a drunk driver,but the fact is the man WASNT drunk at all and was cleared 100% by the police investigation.Every word Out of Bidens mouth is a lie.In fact he got through law school by plagerism.HE SUCKS!!!
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240's posts were paid for and approved by the Obama campaign.
Don't like concrete facts much?
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This has been, and is still, the main driver behind my vote - the candidate that helps my wallet the most.
A truly idiotic way to vote. I love how Republicans always claim to put "country first" then vote in their own best personal interest.
How about YOU put country first for once and vote what will benefit the entire nation.
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Palin is light years ahead of "the dumbest man in the senate" Joe Biden.A man who even uses the tragic death of his wife to promote himself.He claims she was killed by a drunk driver,but the fact is the man WASNT drunk at all and was cleared 100% by the police investigation.Every word Out of Bidens mouth is a lie.In fact he got through law school by plagerism.HE SUCKS!!!
She's also a person who thinks even women who've been raped shouln't be allowed abortions
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240's posts were paid for and approved by the Obama campaign.
I'm sorry. I guess we can make it a big shit-slinging fest about personalities and drama.
Or, you can ask yourself. Do you think how things were from 2001 to 2008? If so, vote McCain.
If you preferred how things were from 1993 to 2000, vote Obama.
Obama will employ many Bill Clinton policies. Mccain will employ many bush policies.
if you like how things are, vote Mccain.
if you don't like how things are, vote Obama.
It's that simple.
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Palin is another TOOL that McCain is trying to use to win over the female voter. When Sarah wa asked about her nomination as vice president that moron said..."vice president..I don't know anything about what a vice president does...can someone tell me what a vice presidents responsibilitiies are?" and this is the type of MORON could possibly be in the vice president seat. I had to laugh though as she tried to bad mouth Obama claiming that as a public servant who did he help. I thought to myself maybe that public servant could have helped her whoring daughter make a wiser choice about getting pregnant...then again when the daughters choice is a "FUCKING REDNECK" then what can be expected...
I am willing to bet at some point in ther near future we will find out that the DOWN SYNDROME baby is a child of incest with the father. By the way Sarahs husband is a stay at home dad....stay at home and start lusting after your own daughter.
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Politics board
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Palin is another TOOL that McCain is trying to use to win over the female voter. When Sarah wa asked about her nomination as vice president that moron said..."vice president..I don't know anything about what a vice president does...can someone tell me what a vice presidents responsibilitiies are?" and this is the type of MORON could possibly be in the vice president seat. I had to laugh though as she tried to bad mouth Obama claiming that as a public servant who did he help. I thought to myself maybe that public servant could have helped her whoring daughter make a wiser choice about getting pregnant...then again when the daughters choice is a "FUCKING REDNECK" then what can be expected...
All this does is get people to defend her.
intead, look at policies.
If you like what America is about, and has been doing from 01 til today, vote mccain.
If you miss the Clinton economy and the way he handled things with foreign nations, vote Omaba.
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Palin is another TOOL that McCain is trying to use to win over the female voter. When Sarah wa asked about her nomination as vice president that moron said..."vice president..I don't know anything about what a vice president does...can someone tell me what a vice presidents responsibilitiies are?" and this is the type of MORON could possibly be in the vice president seat. I had to laugh though as she tried to bad mouth Obama claiming that as a public servant who did he help. I thought to myself maybe that public servant could have helped her whoring daughter make a wiser choice about getting pregnant...then again when the daughters choice is a "FUCKING REDNECK" then what can be expected...
I am willing to bet at some point in ther near future we will find out that the DOWN SYNDROME baby is a child of incest with the father. By the way Sarahs husband is a stay at home dad....stay at home and start lusting after your own daughter.
I'm sensing your frustration over the latest poles.
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So let me get straight GrapeApe, socialism or even borderline communism is the whats driving your vote?
Why in the hell should I be FORCED to give someone my hard earned money because they don't have the drive to make it themselves? Fuck that if you think your going to také 50% of income and if I go to sell my home také an additional 25% of that and so on and so on......screw Obama that POS!
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Why in the hell should I be FORCED to give someone my hard earned money because they don't have the drive to make it themselves? Fuck that if you think your going to také 50% of income and if I go to sell my home také an additional 25% of that and so on and so on......screw Obama that POS!
Joe - for YOU - Mccain is the right choice. You've posted on getbig that you made over 300k last year. Very good money. Obama will take a bigger chunk of your money, and adversely affect your lifestyle and spending habits. For you, Obama sucks. If you're already tight on $, Obama may cost you your home as you mentioned. That sucks, big time.
For any of us making under 100,000.... Obama will help.
The thing is that rich people don't care about poor people, and vice versa.
To be fair - bush didn't raise taxes when things were good. The 2001 Bush tax cuts were very huge in that they hooked up rich people, who usually get taxed a lot during good times. bush hooked you up bigtime for 7 years, Joe.
For you, Mccain is a MUCH better answer.
For us making under $100k, Obama will give us more money. Period.
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A truly idiotic way to vote. I love how Republicans always claim to put "country first" then vote in their own best personal interest.
How about YOU put country first for once and vote what will benefit the entire nation.
why? putting someone else's interests over your own is about as un-american as you can get.
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Joe - for YOU - Mccain is the right choice. You've posted on getbig that you made over 300k last year. Very good money. Obama will take a bigger chunk of your money, and adversely affect your lifestyle and spending habits. For you, Obama sucks. If you're already tight on $, Obama may cost you your home as you mentioned. That sucks, big time.
For any of us making under 100,000.... Obama will help.
The thing is that rich people don't care about poor people, and vice versa.
To be fair - bush didn't raise taxes when things were good. The 2001 Bush tax cuts were very huge in that they hooked up rich people, who usually get taxed a lot during good times. bush hooked you up bigtime for 7 years, Joe.
For you, Mccain is a MUCH better answer.
For us making under $100k, Obama will give us more money. Period.
How the hell have the polls gone the Mccain way so dramatically? I'm a conservative who doesn't like McCain but could never vote for a liberal. Having said that, I can't believe the numbers among independants....over 50% Mccain. And a very important poll....likely voters....have the same results.
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A truly idiotic way to vote. I love how Republicans always claim to put "country first" then vote in their own best personal interest.
How about YOU put country first for once and vote what will benefit the entire nation.
I dont see how voting for a guy that thinks stealing from those who work and giving to those who wont work is good for the country.I dont see how pushing us a step closer to socialism is a good way to go.I certainly dont want Joe Biden,a proven liar and a man who has taken away more liberty from us then almost any other senator,anywhere near the presidency.
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How the hell have the polls gone the Mccain way so dramatically? I'm a conservative who doesn't like McCain but could never vote for a liberal. Having said that, I can't believe the numbers among independants....over 50% Mccain. And a very important poll....likely voters....have the same results.
because there are a small % of voters who change their mind each week.
They vote based upon which candidate they'd like to have a beer with.
They vote based upon which candidate pwns the other that week in news blurbs.
They vote based upon gender, race, war experience, hair color, etc.
Most of us vote with our pocketbook.
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I dont see how voting for a guy that thinks stealing from those who work and giving to those who wont work is good for the country.I dont see how pushing us a step closer to socialism is a good way to go.I certainly dont want Joe Biden,a proven liar and a man who has taken away more liberty from us then almost any other senator,anywhere near the presidency.
Billy Mimnaugh, are you trying to imply that our vote always comes down to who we think is the least shitty person, not the best qualified?
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Joe - for YOU - Mccain is the right choice. You've posted on getbig that you made over 300k last year. Very good money. Obama will take a bigger chunk of your money, and adversely affect your lifestyle and spending habits. For you, Obama sucks. If you're already tight on $, Obama may cost you your home as you mentioned. That sucks, big time.
For any of us making under 100,000.... Obama will help.
The thing is that rich people don't care about poor people, and vice versa.
To be fair - bush didn't raise taxes when things were good. The 2001 Bush tax cuts were very huge in that they hooked up rich people, who usually get taxed a lot during good times. bush hooked you up bigtime for 7 years, Joe.
For you, Mccain is a MUCH better answer.
For us making under $100k, Obama will give us more money. Period.
Rob, Obama is giving you money (people under $100k) but he's taking it from people who have worked hard to make what they have made. It wasn't all that long ago that I wasn't making all that much, but I worked my ASS off to make what I make. You Rob, have an MBA, I don't have a degree (I came up 6mos short of a BS) unless a person is mentally unstable, there's no reason to not beat the odds.
Now, most people that are making alot (we'll call them the rich) usually are business owners and if that's the case, they would position themselves to have ton of write off's. The way I look at it, Obama want's to tax 50% of my personal income, tax the shit out my business and what does that leave me with to take care of my family? No, he wants to take what I make to feed someone elses family. Don't get me wrong, I do my share of cherity work, but it's of my own doing!
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because there are a small % of voters who change their mind each week.
They vote based upon which candidate they'd like to have a beer with.
They vote based upon which candidate pwns the other that week in news blurbs.
They vote based upon gender, race, war experience, hair color, etc.
Most of us vote with our pocketbook.
I buy very little of that. If everyone voted with their pocketbook, Obama would be way ahead. And if it was based on who was getting pwnd in a given week, once again Obama would have a considerable margin based on the attacks on Palin which have been vicious. Biden has gotten a free ride so far but I'm sure they'll get to him.
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Billy Mimnaugh, are you trying to imply that our vote always comes down to who we think is the least shitty person, not the best qualified?
It's always the wallet...
The reality is that the one thing that affects any average american on an on-going basis is taxes... That's it.
Now, I see it differently... The value of the dollar makes a big deal to me.
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Rob, Obama is giving you money (people under $100k) but he's taking it from people who have worked hard to make what they have made. It wasn't all that long ago that I wasn't making all that much, but I worked my ASS off to make what I make. You Rob, have an MBA, I don't have a degree (I came up 6mos short of a BS) unless a person is mentally unstable, there's no reason to not beat the odds.
Now, most people that are making alot (we'll call them the rich) usually are business owners and if that's the case, they would position themselves to have ton of write off's. The way I look at it, Obama want's to tax 50% of my personal income, tax the shit out my business and what does that leave me with to take care of my family? No, he wants to take what I make to feed someone elses family. Don't get me wrong, I do my share of cherity work, but it's of my own doing!
It's fucked up. No doubt.
The problem is, people here have to make a decision. Do they do what is RIGHT? Or do they do what puts money into their pockets?
If you ask any member here which they'd prefer - to have an extra $2,500 next year, or to keep some guy in Cali they'll never meet from getting screwed... which do you think they'll pick?
Mccain's tax plan appeals majorly to the top 5% of earners, which include you.
Obama's tax plan appeals majorly to the bottom 95% of earners, which includes me and most people reading this post right now.
It sucks, but it's reality. For the last 7 years, Bush's economic policy had you keeping a larger % of your money than at anytime during history during a non-recession. I mean, you lucky folks making 200k and over were keeping a TON of it. I hope you stashed away a lot of it, knowing it wouldn't last forever.
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I buy very little of that. If everyone voted with their pocketbook, Obama would be way ahead. And if it was based on who was getting pwnd in a given week, once again Obama would have a considerable margin based on the attacks on Palin which have been vicious. Biden has gotten a free ride so far but I'm sure they'll get to him.
I disagree... many people believe that even though they are not rich today... They may one day BE rich.
Also, it's not JUST their wallets... but it's a LARGE majority. Some people do vote with the fact that they'd like to have a beer with the guy... Didn't work out well for us with the last guy... but that's just my take on it.
Rob, Obama is giving you money (people under $100k) but he's taking it from people who have worked hard to make what they have made. It wasn't all that long ago that I wasn't making all that much, but I worked my ASS off to make what I make. You Rob, have an MBA, I don't have a degree (I came up 6mos short of a BS) unless a person is mentally unstable, there's no reason to not beat the odds.
Now, most people that are making alot (we'll call them the rich) usually are business owners and if that's the case, they would position themselves to have ton of write off's. The way I look at it, Obama want's to tax 50% of my personal income, tax the shit out my business and what does that leave me with to take care of my family? No, he wants to take what I make to feed someone elses family. Don't get me wrong, I do my share of cherity work, but it's of my own doing!
What if your 300K taxes go from 30 to 40% but the value of your dollar goes up 250% under Obama?
Would that not be better than just having a tax cut?
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It's fucked up. No doubt.
The problem is, people here have to make a decision. Do they do what is RIGHT? Or do they do what puts money into their pockets?
If you ask any member here which they'd prefer - to have an extra $2,500 next year, or to keep some guy in Cali they'll never meet from getting screwed... which do you think they'll pick?
Mccain's tax plan appeals majorly to the top 5% of earners, which include you.
Obama's tax plan appeals majorly to the bottom 95% of earners, which includes me and most people reading this post right now.
It sucks, but it's reality. For the last 7 years, Bush's economic policy had you keeping a larger % of your money than at anytime during history during a non-recession. I mean, you lucky folks making 200k and over were keeping a TON of it. I hope you stashed away a lot of it, knowing it wouldn't last forever.
It's not that simple Rob. I don't believe everybody who makes more than 250K will benefit from a shitty economy and lower taxes on their personal income.
Lower taxes for the middle class (income <250K), at least in the short term induce larger consumption and bigger sells for many business. The net profit for many companies could actually be higher, even with increased personal income tax. I wouldn't mind paying more taxes if my business would grow accordingly!
Eventually every economic expansion (tax reduction) will turn in higher inflation (all things being equal) but that's another story.
The truth is that the fundamentals of the economy are very weak, public debt, gdp growth, unemployment rate... and they need to be fixed. At the very least Obama acknowledges that those issues exist.
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why? putting someone else's interests over your own is about as un-american as you can get.
Obviously you know nothing of American History and its continual survival and productivity thereof.
Unless of course
You were just being facetious. :)
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So let me get straight GrapeApe, socialism or even borderline communism is the whats driving your vote?
Why in the hell should I be FORCED to give someone my hard earned money because they don't have the drive to make it themselves? Fuck that if you think your going to také 50% of income and if I go to sell my home také an additional 25% of that and so on and so on......screw Obama that POS!
You think I'm voting for Obama? Have you not read anything I've posted in the Political forum?
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What if your 300K taxes go from 30 to 40% but the value of your dollar goes up 250% under Obama?
The dollar lost 41% of its value under bush administration compared to teh Euro.
If you had a million bucks in 2001, it's worth 590,000 today. (barring interest)
We owe 1.1 trillion to China, and 7.9 tril to other world banks. The debt has doubled in the last 7 years, from the 80 years before that.
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"I wonder how many times you have to be hit on the head before you
find out who's hitting you? It's about time that the people of America
realized what the Republicans have been doing to them."
- Harry Truman
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It's not that simple Rob. I don't believe everybody who makes more than 250K will benefit from a shitty economy and lower taxes on their personal income.
The thinking is that while there will be an initial hit to the economy as the rich folks all get the leashes put on them and low-rich like Joe at 350k lose their homes/re-adjust their lifestyles...
In the bigger picture, the dollar will strengthen as a result. Remember that another 7 years of "dropping 41% of value" will put the US Dollar at its' death, there is no doubt about that. RUS and MEX (95 and 98) declared bankruptcies and a lot of people lost everything. it *can* happen when you borrow too much.
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The dollar lost 41% of its value under bush administration compared to teh Euro.
If you had a million bucks in 2001, it's worth 590,000 today. (barring interest)
We owe 1.1 trillion to China, and 7.9 tril to other world banks. The debt has doubled in the last 7 years, from the 80 years before that.
That, to me... is a huge deal.
My salary is not increasing at that rate, so I would dare say that it is hurting me in the long run.
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The thinking is that while there will be an initial hit to the economy as the rich folks all get the leashes put on them and low-rich like Joe at 350k lose their homes/re-adjust their lifestyles...
In the bigger picture, the dollar will strengthen as a result. Remember that another 7 years of "dropping 41% of value" will put the US Dollar at its' death, there is no doubt about that. RUS and MEX (95 and 98) declared bankruptcies and a lot of people lost everything. it *can* happen when you borrow too much.
I agree, and that's why any tax reduction should be accompanied by a reduction in public expenditure. There is so much waste right now, first of all, the war in Iraq.
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If you don`t like taxes, don`t pay them. Civil Dissention is after all, the highest form of patriotism. :)
I personally think there should be a National Sales tax on all NEW items with the exception of food and housing.
Used items should also be tax free.
Changing the nation from a spending to a savings oriented nation will not only reward quality, but will promote correct conservatism as it is meant to be practiced.
This way, people will have total control of every dollar they make and will be in total control of their finance.
Everybody pays the same equally.
We can be as regressive and as progressive as we like with a National Sales Tax. 20 percent is the agreed upon amount by all Fair Tax/National Sales Tax economists.
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A truly idiotic way to vote. I love how Republicans always claim to put "country first" then vote in their own best personal interest.
How about YOU put country first for once and vote what will benefit the entire nation.
This is a strawman argument.
You're inferring that by casting a vote primarily based on the well being of my family, I couldn't care less about the well being of my country. This is not the case. I would not vote for a man if I felt he would leave the country in shambles, even if he policies saved me a few thousand dollars.
I believe that the country's economic condition will eventually change, as history has shown that it always does. I don't believe that either man in this election, if elected President, will change that.
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I agree, and that's why any tax reduction should be accompanied by a reduction in public expenditure. There is so much waste right now, first of all, the war in Iraq.
Obama says the spending will remain the same - BUT - he'll pull billions from war in iraq - make them use their own $80 billion surplus to fund the war - and use the $3 billion a week we're spending in Iraq to fund his programs here.
And he says instead of borrowing the $, we're going to tax the rich folks for it.
I'm not a big fan of some of his policies, but some, I am. He'll make healthcare more afforable for my neice, whose dad is AWOL and whose mom (my sister) has MS. He'll make my dad's pension/retirement worth more - pops took a bath on the 41% dorp in US dollar value in the last 7 years. He's a lifetime republican, but he's pissed his portfolio (and my inheritance lol) is shrinking at such a rate.
Bottom line is that Obama will tax the rich. If you're rich, you are not going to like it. But, you made a KILLING under the Bush plan, and if you were smart with you $, you're in good shape now.
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This is a strawman argument.
You're inferring that by casting a vote primarily based on the well being of my family, I couldn't care less about the well being of my country. This is not the case. I would not vote for a man if I felt he would leave the country in shambles, even if he policies saved me a few thousand dollars.
I believe that the country's economic condition will eventually change, as history has shown that it always does. I don't believe that either man in this election, if elected President, will change that.
The right man makes all the difference.
Look up the Panic of 1873 when the gold standard was cornered and massive fortunes were lost and the economy ravaged. Look who was behind that little debacle. October 4th, 1929 should be a reminder of what happens when you put a string of incompetents in power. You seem to think history straightens itself out with no intervention. That is ignorant. You have a chance now to truly put country first as the contrast between Obama and Mccain are stark. Clearly Obama`s policies in EVERY area are benefiting the country as a whole much more so than Mccain. Please cite or show me where Mccain is ahead on one issue or policy that benefits the entire country more than Obama`s plans. ANY AREA.
I bet you can`t.
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One thing to consider is if you work for a small business, the McCain plan is much better. All small business owners I know are campaigning against Obama because the tax policies will hurt them. This, in turn, will affect their employees. If employers are hit with more taxes, it will affect hiring, salaries and benefits offered. I am in this position. Obama is increasing the payroll tax which affects employment, in addition to the capital gains taxes (which affect all business owners and investors). It doesn't sound so bad for large corporations who often use creative accounting to help survive this, but it will be very hard on small businesses.
Remember, America was built on small business and small businesses employ the majority of American workers.
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Billy Mimnaugh, are you trying to imply that our vote always comes down to who we think is the least shitty person, not the best qualified?
Hmmm,Obama with his vast history of "community organising" doesnt strike me as either a good person or qualified to run anything.Biden has proven to be the most incompatant human being serving in the US senate time and again.Neither guy is honorable,neither qualified,neither worth a crap.
However,most of the time we vote on who we like.Thats why goofs like Gore,Kerry,Dukakis loose,they are not liked.They are viewed as loosers.
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One thing to consider is if you work for a small business, the McCain plan is much better. All small business owners I know are campaigning against Obama because the tax policies will hurt them. This, in turn, will affect their employees. If employers are hit with more taxes, it will affect hiring, salaries and benefits offered. I am in this position. Obama is increasing the payroll tax which affects employment, in addition to the capital gains taxes (which affect all business owners and investors). It doesn't sound so bad for large corporations who often use creative accounting to help survive this, but it will be very hard on small businesses.
Remember, America was built on small business and small businesses employ the majority of American workers.
at the same time, what happens to your business and employees if the dollar declines by another 41% in the next 7 years? Will you be open at all?
Obama admits year 1 of his plan will be a slowed economy and some companies will suffer. But he feels the return in the dollar strength will leave you in a better spot in the long run.
If your dollar was suddenly back at its 2001 level (with 41% greater value), you'd be grinning ear to ear right now, right?
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Also, consider overall taxation, not just income tax. Obama will increase nearly all taxation as he is increasing the size & power of the federal gov. Additional increases in the marriage tax, payroll tax, capital gains tax, and estate taxes. My guess is that we will see other tax increases as well.
Obama is an impressive person, its the idea of bigger gov and more influence that scares me. The worst organizations I have been a part of have been very large. The best have been small businesses with people that are personally invested and care. This is a point from experience.
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Yes, 240, a strong dollar will help...but I think spending decreases and lowering the national debt are the factors that will help the dollar. Obama has high spending planned and the increase in taxes won't cover all the increased spending.
The only way to balance our budget again is to cut military spending (which neither will likely do), cut ineffective gov programs, decrease the excessive aid we give to other countries, stop borrowing from the Chinese and help our trade deficits.
The neocons are horrible spenders, as are the far left liberals.
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One thing to consider is if you work for a small business, the McCain plan is much better. All small business owners I know are campaigning against Obama because the tax policies will hurt them. This, in turn, will affect their employees. If employers are hit with more taxes, it will affect hiring, salaries and benefits offered. I am in this position. Obama is increasing the payroll tax which affects employment, in addition to the capital gains taxes (which affect all business owners and investors). It doesn't sound so bad for large corporations who often use creative accounting to help survive this, but it will be very hard on small businesses.
Remember, America was built on small business and small businesses employ the majority of American workers.
Ah but as was stated earlier, the tax breaks will enduce spending within the lower-middle class so if you have a product that is truly worth buying, your sales will increase and you'll end up better off. Also depending on your business the US dollar will be bolstered with Obama therefore import costs will decrease, so you win two fold, rather than just paying less tax whilst having less middle america able to afford your products, and a higher cost of importing goods.
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Adonis, you were debating with someone the other day and defending the idea of bigger gov and socialist type philosophy. While you made some good points, I can tell you that its a dangerous idea from a historical perspective and from an experience perspective.
I am in a unique position to have worked with small and large companies in medicine. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the smaller companies worked better from top to bottom. I have worked and was a part owner in a small medical clinic, which was great. Patients loved it and most of the employees were happy. Everyone cared. I worked for a big hospital where the research was wonderful and the equipment was excellent but they treated their docs and patients poorly, everyone argued, passed the buck and moral was poor. No one put the patient first or felt like they should go the extra yard as far as effort. I have worked as a medical contractor in the federal gov and there is so much waste it is surprising even to me, at all levels. Also, in the fed gov, once you hire people its so hard to fire them, even for poor performance...so many people decrease their productivity and desire to work but they remain in their positions. Motivation drives us, so does personal investment. The # of people who become lazy and less productive in a federal system is staggering.
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We cannot say whether the dollar would strengthen more under one person or the other, that remains to be seen.
Also, goods & services are purchased disproportionally by the upper middle class & the rich so its more complicated in increasing domestic products. We need to be able to compete more in a world market IMO so a stronger dollar, less business regulation, lower capital gains to attract new companies and better trade practices are important.
China and India have the lowest capital gains taxes right now and their economies and new businesses have exploded. When you raise capital gains taxes you have less growth, less new businesses, and less $ going to the federal gov. That is truth.
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Also, consider overall taxation, not just income tax. Obama will increase nearly all taxation as he is increasing the size & power of the federal gov. Additional increases in the marriage tax, payroll tax, capital gains tax, and estate taxes. My guess is that we will see other tax increases as well.
Obama is an impressive person, its the idea of bigger gov and more influence that scares me. The worst organizations I have been a part of have been very large. The best have been small businesses with people that are personally invested and care. This is a point from experience.
Please Provide ACTUAL figures from Obama`s plan and Mccain`s plan. Can you give me EXACT numbers?
I hear a lot of talk, but ZERO evidence of actual numbers. Please provide them so we can see what you are claiming.
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Sorry Adonis, I type as quick as I can between patients...can't search right now.
Your right though, we need real figures, not just people's ideas of what they think is going to happen.
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Shootfighter,
All of your contentions are MEANINGLESS and USELESS unless you can provide EXACT figures and Evidence.
I have them, but I would like to see you post them so you can learn for yourself.
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Sorry Adonis, I type as quick as I can between patients...can't search right now.
Your right though, we need real figures, not just people's ideas of what they think is going to happen.
Deal! When you have time! We have to be accurate here. I will wait to see what you come up with, then I will post what I have.
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You ask for too much.
It's hard for shoofighter to remember the figures they throw out on Fox News. And then how does one cite them?
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We cannot say whether the dollar would strengthen more under one person or the other, that remains to be seen.
I disagree.
We do know that less borrowing means the dollar regains strength.
it's only down 41% because Bush borrowed $4.5 trillion in the last 7 years.
Our debt from 1913 to 2000 was only 4.5 Trillion - TOTAL.
When you borrow that much money, your economy weakens and world faith in your ability to pay it back falls. If Obama was able to reduce debt from 9 trillion to 7 trillion or less in 4 years... the dollar would CERTAINLY strengthen.
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August 15, 2008
Obama's Small Business Tax Plan
The McCain campaign has made a lot of fuss recently about Obama and taxes. It's clear that their strategy this week turns on a classic Republican ploy: portray all Democrats as "tax-and-spend liberals." The McCain camp debuted a new ad this week called "Taxman," that declares Obama's policies an "economic disaster."
But Factcheck.org and Politifact.com take issue with that assessment, pointing out that many of the McCain campaign's claims about Obama's tax initiatives are false or misleading.
In fact, even the conservative magazine National Review recently acknowledged that Obama's plan offers more tax relief for middle class families than McCain's.
Recent McCain campaign emails specifically target Obama's tax plan for small businesses. The campaign has repeatedly claimed that Obama's tax policies would raise taxes on 23 million small businesses, but, as Factcheck.org points out, that is simply not true. The Obama plan actually provides tax relief to small businesses in the form of a proposed capital gains tax exemption and tax credits to help cover the cost of employee health plans.
During a June interview with the Wall Street Journal, Obama stated he will exempt start-up small businesses from capital gains taxes in order to encourage small business development, saying, "Companies that are starting off...should be allowed to accumulate capital, reinvest profits, if there are any, to the point that they stabilize."
And the Obama campaign's official small business plan, available on the campaign website, states:
Barack Obama will reduce the burden on small businesses in our economy by offering a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide quality health care to their employees. The Obama Small Business Health Tax Credit will provide a refundable credit of up to 50 percent on premiums paid by small businesses on behalf of their employees.
Factcheck.org concludes that under Obama's small business tax policies, in terms of overall tax rates, "The vast majority would see no change, and many would get a cut."
In addition to a small-business-friendly tax plan, Obama has put forth a number of other policy proposals to encourage small business growth.
Obama plans to allow small businesses to participate in a cooperative National Health Exchange to give them the same collective bargaining power in negotiations with health insurance companies that larger corporations currently enjoy. He also proposes a federal health care re-insurance program that would protect small businesses against catastrophic losses related to employee health care coverage.
Obama outlines an expansion of the Small Business Administration loan program that would make it easier for start-up small business entrepreneurs, particularly women and minorities, to access capital for a new business, and imagines a national network of public-private business incubators that would educate and support new business owners to foster greater small business success.
To support women in business, Obama plans to enforce the guidelines set down by Congress during the Clinton Administration under the Women-Owned Business Federal Contract Assistance Program, which state that the federal government should aim to award 5% of yearly contract funds to women-owned small businesses. Currently, the federal government is failing to meet even that incredibly conservative benchmark. (Yes, you read that correctly. The federal government is failing to award even 5% of its contracts to women-owned small businesses. I'm flabbergasted.)
Obama's small business proposals also include providing disaster relief funds to small businesses in the event of a major natural disaster, improving internet access in rural areas that lack communications infrastructure, to help small rural businesses compete with urban businesses on the web, and offering technical support and training to rural business owners.
You can read about many of Obama's small business proposals in this official campaign document.
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BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN FOR SMALL BUSINESS
There are approximately 25.8 million businesses in the United States and over 99 percent of all employers are small businesses, according to the U.S. Small Business Administration. Barack Obama will help small businesses by cutting health care costs, improving access to capital and investing in innovation and development. Lower Health Care Costs with a New Small Business Health Tax Credit: Barack Obama understands that the skyrocketing cost of healthcare poses a serious competitive threat to America’s small businesses.
Small businesses are the drivers of job growth in our economy, creating, on average, more than two-thirds of net new jobs each year. Yet small business owners face unique challenges in providing health care to their employees, including higher administrative costs, lower bargaining power, greater price volatility and fewer pooling options. Barack Obama will reduce the burden on small businesses in our economy by offering a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide quality health care to their employees. The Obama Small Business Health Tax Credit will provide a refundable credit of up to 50 percent on premiums paid by small businesses on behalf of their employees. Obama’s Small Business Health Tax Credit will work alongside other aspects of his health care plan to lower costs and improve competitiveness for America’s small businesses, including: • Access to a Low-cost National Health Exchange: The Obama health care plan will provide small businesses with new opportunities to buy low-cost, high quality health plans for their employees through a national exchange similar that will allow small businesses to get the same benefits of spreading risk and administrative costs over a large pool that larger businesses currently enjoy. • Reduced Volatility and Lower Costs by Reimbursing Catastrophic Costs: The Obama plan will reimburse employer health plans for a portion of the catastrophic costs they incur above a threshold if they guarantee such savings are used to reduce the cost of workers’ premiums. This reimbursement (often called reinsurance) is particularly important for small business plans, which can be overwhelmed by the costs of catastrophic expenditures for even a single employee. • Investment in Cost Reduction and Quality Improvement Strategies: The Obama plan will aggressively lower health costs by facilitating broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, and other value-increasing innovations improving chronic care management, and increasing insurance market competition.
Provide Zero Capital Gains and Other Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Ups: Barack Obama believes that we need to reduce burdens on small business owners, many of whom are struggling to succeed as health care and energy costs continue to skyrocket. Barack Obama will also eliminate all capital gains taxes on small and start-up businesses to encourage innovation and job creation. Obama will support small business owners by providing a $500 “Making Work Pay” tax credit to almost every worker in America. Self-employed small business owners pay both the employee and the employer side of the payroll tax, and this measure will reduce the burdens of this double taxation.
Expand Loan Programs for Small Businesses: Access to capital is a top concern among small business owners. Barack Obama cosponsored the bipartisan Small Business Lending Reauthorization and Improvements Act. This bill expands the Small Business Administration’s loan and micro-loan programs which provide start-up and long-term financing that small firms cannot receive through normal channels. Obama will work to help more entrepreneurs get loans, expand the network of lenders, and simplify the loan approval process. Support Innovation and High-Tech Job Creation: Barack Obama believes we need to double federal funding for basic research, diversify energy sources, expand the deployment of broadband technology, and make the research and development tax credit permanent so that businesses can invest in innovation and create high-paying, secure jobs. Create a National Network of Public-Private Business Incubators: Barack Obama will support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by creating a national network of public-private business incubators. Business incubators facilitate the critical work of entrepreneurs in creating start-up companies. They offer help designing business plans, provide physical space, identify and address problems affecting all small businesseswithin a given community, and give advice on a wide range of business practices, including reducing overhead costs. Business incubators will engage the expertise and resources of local institutions of higher education and successful private sector businesses to help ensure that small businesses have both a strong plan and the resources for long-term success. Obama will invest $250 million per year to increase the number and size of incubators in disadvantaged communities throughout the country.
Invest in Women-Owned Small Businesses: Women are majority owners of more than 28 percent of U.S. businesses, but lead less than 4 percent of venture capital-backed firms. Women business owners are more likely than white male business owners to have their loan applications denied. Barack Obama encourages investment in women-owned businesses, providing more support to women business owners and reducing discrimination in lending. To create greater opportunities for women business owners who would like to do business with the federal government, Obama will implement the Women Owned Business contracting program that was signed into law by President Bill Clinton, but has yet to be implemented by the Bush Administration.Increasin g Minority Access to Capital: Access to venture capital is critically important to the development of minority-owned businesses. Yet there has been a growing gap between the amounts of venture capital available to minority-owned small businesses compared to other small businesses. Less than 1 percent of the $250 billion in venture capital dollars invested annually nationwide has been directed to the country’s 4.4 million minority business owners. And in recent years, there has been a significant decline in the share of Small Business Investment Company financings that have gone to minority-owned and women-owned businesses. In order to increase their size, capacity, and ability to do business with the federal government, and to compete in the open market, minority firms need greater access to venture capital investment, as well as greater access to business loans. Barack Obama will strengthen Small Business Administration programs that provide capital to minority-owned businesses, support outreach programs that help minority business owners apply for loans, and work to encourage the growth and capacity of minority firms.
Promote Small Business Ownership in the Communications Industry: Barack Obama joined Senator JohnKerry (D-MA) in calling on the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to immediately address the issues of minority, women and small business media ownership before taking up a second review of wider media ownership rules. Obama has continued that fight by urging the FCC to establish an independent panel on minority and small business media ownership. As president, Obama will support efforts to achieve diverse media ownership, particularly in an era of increased media concentration.Support Local Businesses Affected by Hurricane Katrina: In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, Barack Obama introduced the Hurricane Katrina Recovery Act to rebuild the Gulf Coast. This bill included language to
increase the government-wide goal for procurement contracts awarded to small businesses owned and controlled by socially and economically disadvantaged individuals for recovery and reconstruction activities related to Hurricane Katrina. Obama also established a government-wide goal for procurement contracts awarded to local businesses in Katrina-affected areas of 30 percent of that total value for 2006 and 2007. Provide Emergency Relief: Barack Obama supported legislation to provide emergency relief to small businesses affected by a significant increase in the price of heating oil, natural gas, propane, or kerosene. This bill authorized the Small Business Administration to make disaster loans to assist small businesses that havesuffered or are likely to suffer substantial economic injury as the result of a significant increase in the price ofheating fuel.
Support Rural Small Businesses: Barack Obama will support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by establishing a small business and micro-enterprise initiative for rural America. The program will provide training and technical assistance for rural small business, and provide a 20 percent tax credit on up to $50,000 of investment in small owner-operated businesses. This initiative will put the full support of the nation’s economic policies behind rural entrepreneurship. Promote Digital Inclusion: The lack of affordable, high-speed Internet access in rural, urban, and minority communities has created a digital divide between those who have access to the Internet and those who do not. This severely limits the growth potential of many urban and rural companies. Approximately only one-third of rural areas and half of urban areas have high-speed Internet at home or work. The areas affected by HurricaneKatrina have particularly suffered due to a lack of IT infrastructure.
Barack Obama believes we can get true broadband to every community in America through a combination of reform of the Universal Service Fund, better use of the nation’s wireless spectrum, promotion of next-generation technologies, and new tax and loan incentives. As a key step to achieving full broadband access, Obama believes the Federal Communications Commission should provide an accurate map of broadband availability using a true definition of broadband instead of the current 200 kbs standard and an assessment of obstacles to fuller broadband penetration.
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ha, i love how the republicans have given up even trying to compete or talk about issues or their plans and are now 100% focused to simply slandering Obama and Biden.
they even put their blinders on and are claiming Palin is the next coming of jesus.
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TAX PLANS COMPARED
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:sihP2t9HJ6YJ:www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Tax_Plan_Comparison_FINAL.pdf+obama+small+business+tax+plan+mccain+compared&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
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OBAMA ON SMALL BUSINESS TAX POLICES
Eliminate Capital Gains for Small Businesses. Obama would cut capital gains taxes to 0% for investments insmall businesses and start ups
A New Small Business Healthcare Tax Credit. Obama would provide a 50% health care tax credit to small businesses and lower health insurance costs by$2,500 per family for all firms
MCCAIN ON SMALL BUSINESS TAX POLICES
Would continue to tax capital gains for small businesses at 15%
Added Costs for Firms That Provide Health Insurance. McCain would tax employer contributions to employee health insurance plans for the first time in history.
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So there you have it.
MCCAIN is WORSE on Small Business taxes when each plan is side by side.
You can`t argue with FACTS AND EVIDENCE!
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Small business: How McCain, Obama compare
BRIAN TUMULTY
Gannett News Service
WASHINGTON - The two major candidates for president - Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama — have mapped out widely different approaches to the issues of top concern to small businesses.
Cost of health coverage
McCain would eliminate the tax exemption employees get for employer provided health insurance and replace it with a refundable tax credit of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to either purchase their own coverage or offset their portion of the cost of employer-provided coverage.
Obama would keep the current tax exemption for employer health coverage and offer a new tax credit for up to 50 percent of the cost of coverage provided by small businesses.
Both candidates also support measures to control rising health care costs.
Cost of fuel and electricity
McCain supported a tax holiday for the federal gasoline tax through Labor Day — a proposal Obama opposed.
McCain supports ending the taxation of imported ethanol, expanding domestic oil and gas drilling, wants the nation to build 45 new nuclear power plants by 2030 and would spend $2 billion annually to research clean-coal technology.
Obama supports congressional passage of a second economic stimulus package that would provide rebate checks to people to offset the high cost of gasoline and impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies with the money going for home weatherization and fuel assistance programs for low-income families.
Obama opposes expanding drilling rights and would keep in place the tax on imported ethanol.
Corporate tax rate
McCain wants to reduce the corporate income taxes to 25 percent from the 35 percent rate effectively paid by large corporations.
But corporations with taxable incomes under $75,000 already pay a 25 percent rate and those with taxable income under $50,000 pay 15 percent.
George Plesko, a professor of accounting at the University of Connecticut, said his analysis of Internal Revenue Service data indicates a minority of corporations are subject to the 35 percent rate.
In fact, many small business corporations may not pay any corporate taxes. In 2003, just more than 1.8 million corporations filed a Form 1120A with the IRS to report income below $500,000 and only half of them - 902,015 - had a positive net income subject to the corporate tax rate.
Obama has not made a specific proposal for lowering the corporate tax rate, but has indicated he would consider cutting the top rate during a larger overhaul of corporate taxes that eliminates the tax breaks given to companies that move operations overseas.
Individual tax rates
Most small business owners pay federal taxes based on the individual rates paid by singles, a head of household or married couple.
McCain wants to permanently extend the Bush tax cuts that lowered the top income tax rate to 35 percent.
Obama would restore the top individual rates of 36 percent and 39.6 percent paid by high income Americans.
In 2009, an estimated 457,000 individuals in the current top tax bracket of 35 percent will report business income on their tax returns, according to Len Burman, director of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
Estate taxes
Although federal estate taxes do not rank among the top 30 issues listed by members of the National Federation of Independent Business in a February survey, McCain lists it as part of his small business agenda. The Arizona senator would raise the threshold for estates subject to the federal estate tax to $5 million for individuals and $10 million for couples, after which the federal tax rate would be 15 percent.
Obama would freeze the estate tax at 2009 levels. That would mean that estates of individuals with more than $3.5 million in assets and couples with more than $7 million would be subject to a 45 percent tax rate above those amounts.
"In 2011, we estimate that about 4,100 estates would be taxable under Senator McCain's plan and 8,300 under Senator Obama's," said Burman. In comparison, about 2.4 million Americans died annually. About one-tenth of 1 percent of estates would be taxed under the McCain plan and about three-tenths of 1 percent under the Obama proposal.
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You can`t argue with FACTS AND EVIDENCE!
I apologize as well for not responding, as I post when I get a break at work. I will try to get a better answer to you, time permitting.
I did notice that your facts are coming from BarakObama.com and momocrats.com, whose tagline is "Rage Against McCain". I will try to find some independant sources.
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I disagree.
We do know that less borrowing means the dollar regains strength.
it's only down 41% because Bush borrowed $4.5 trillion in the last 7 years.
Our debt from 1913 to 2000 was only 4.5 Trillion - TOTAL.
When you borrow that much money, your economy weakens and world faith in your ability to pay it back falls. If Obama was able to reduce debt from 9 trillion to 7 trillion or less in 4 years... the dollar would CERTAINLY strengthen.
Wow.
Is that accurate?
Where did you see those numbers?
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www.obamataxcut.com
A cool site to figure out what you will pay under Obama.
Data is from Tax Policy Center, non-partisan
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www.obamataxcut.com
A cool site to figure out what you will pay under Obama.
Data is from Tax Policy Center, non-partisan
www.obamataxcut.com
ALSO compares Mccain`s plan when you put in your figures.
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Wow.
Is that accurate?
Where did you see those numbers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
Sadly, it's true. See borrowing by president:
http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.png
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Wow.
Is that accurate?
Where did you see those numbers?
THATS WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO ASK :o
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http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html
McCain's Small-Business Bunk
July 14, 2008
He claims 23 million small-business owners would pay higher tax rates under Obama. He's wrong. The vast majority would see no change, and many would get a cut.
Summary
McCain has repeatedly claimed that Obama would raise tax rates for 23 million small-business owners. It's a false and preposterously inflated figure.
We find that the overwhelming majority of those small-business owners would see no increase, because they earn too little to be affected. Obama's tax proposal would raise rates only on couples making more than $250,000 or singles earning more than $200,000.
McCain argues that Obama's proposed increase is a job-killer. He has a point. It's true that increasing taxes on those at the top would leave them less money for other purposes, including investment and hiring in the case of business owners. But the number of business owners who would see their rates go up would be only a small fraction of what McCain says. Many would see their taxes go down.
Analysis
Sen. John McCain has been making this false claim over and over, starting with a July 7 speech announcing his "jobs for America" plan:
McCain, July 7: Senator Obama's tax increases will hurt the economy even more, and destroy jobs across this country. If you are one of the 23 million small-business owners in America who files as an individual rate payer, Senator Obama is going to raise your tax rates.
He repeated it in an address to the League of United Latin American Citizens the next day:
McCain, July 8: Keeping individual rates low isn't intended as a favor to wealthy Americans. 23 million small-business owners pay those rates, and taking more money from them deprives them of the capital they need to invest and grow and hire.
He said it again at a campaign event July 9:
McCain, July 9: If you are one of the 23 million small-business owners in America who files as an individual rate payer, Senator Obama is willing to raise your tax rates.
And he repeated it in the first of a planned series of radio addresses July 12:
McCain, July 12: If you are one of the 23 million small-business owners who files as an individual rate payer, watch out – because as your business grows, my opponent proposes to raise your taxes.
But repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true. McCain's 23 million claim is a bogus figure.
Outdated, Inflated, Inapplicable
To justify the 23 million figure, McCain spokesman Brian Rogers referred us to a press release by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which refers to "23 million small business owners" without citing a source. That is actually an outdated count of all the businesses in the United States, produced by the U.S. Census for 2002, when the Economic Census counted a total of 23,343,821 business firms of all sizes. Of those, 16,845 firms employed 500 persons or more, which still leaves just over 23.3 million classified as "small" by the widely accepted definition that we will use here.
That figure is six years out of date. The U.S. Small Business Administration Office of Advocacy estimates the total number of "small" firms with fewer than 500 workers reached 26.8 million in 2006. That's the most recent estimate. But it is also inflated. Since the total U.S. population was just under 300 million in 2006, it would mean that one in every 11 Americans – men, women and children – is a "small-business owner."
It turns out, SBA's estimate includes more than 20 million "nonemployer" firms, an unknown number of them sideline or hobby businesses run by persons who actually make their living some other way. Census and SBA count as a "small business" anyone who reported as little as $1,000 of business receipts. By that very broad definition, John McCain himself is a "small-business owner," because his tax return shows Schedule C income from book royalties. For that matter, Barack Obama would also be a small-business owner, by virtue of his book income. As would President Bush and Vice President Cheney, as we pointed out in 2004. Of the 26.8 million that SBA counts as "small businesses," fewer than 6 million are actually "employer firms" with any payroll.
From this, we must conclude that to arrive at his 23 million figure, McCain is counting mostly "business owners" with no workers, including those who simply report small amounts of income from sideline or freelance work. McCain is arguing that Obama's tax increase would "destroy jobs," but he's counting mostly firms that don't produce any.
That in itself is seriously misleading. If McCain wants to focus on the effects of Obama's plan on employment, he would do better to confine his count to employers – the just under 6 million firms that actually have workers. And even that figure wouldn't be applicable because Obama's tax increase wouldn't fall on all employers, only on those in the top two income tax brackets.
McCain Campaign's Statement
1. These small businesses are subject to Sen. Obama's pay or play health care plan: The tax will either be in the form of health insurance to
workers or cash to the government.
2. Further, even giving Obama the benefit of the doubt, if they make
over $250,000 and file as individuals or have capital gain or dividends, their taxes go up, as Obama has promised.
Note US Chamber cites 23 million figure: "The U.S. Chamber is proud to pay special tribute to some of its most valued constituents: America's
23 million small business owners"
McCain's Non-explanation
McCain cannot justify his 23 million claim. We asked McCain spokesman Brian Rogers for substantiation and received the statement that we reprint here. We find it simply won't do.
Rogers starts by saying that Obama's health care proposal to provide coverage for uninsured workers would amount to a "tax," either in the form of higher costs for covering employees or "cash to the government." But McCain was talking about income tax rates, not higher business costs. That's not justifying McCain's claim; that's trying to change the subject.
Furthermore – as we've just seen – the vast majority of those that McCain is counting as small-business owners have no employees and wouldn't encounter any added costs for covering workers. Obama's plan wouldn't apply to every small employer, either. It says: "Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt." Also, after Rogers sent his message, Obama announced July 13 that he is proposing to grant $6 billion per year in tax credits for small businesses that provide health insurance plans, covering up to half the cost of premiums paid to cover employees.
As for actual income tax rates, which is what McCain keeps talking about, Rogers says "if they make over $250,000 and file as individuals ... their taxes go up." But this leaves out all but a very small fraction of those McCain counts as small-business owners. Rogers also says taxes will go up if small-business owners "have capital gains or dividends," but Obama's proposal would not increase rates on capital gains or dividends for couples making under $250,000, or singles making under about $200,000, regardless of whether they are classified as small-business owners or not.
How Many Would Actually Pay More?
McCain is right about one thing. Many small-business owners would indeed see their taxes go up if Obama is elected and raises the top income-tax rates. According to a survey from the National Federation of Independent Businesses, about eight out of 10 small-business owners responding to the poll report that they are organized legally in a way that would require them to pay taxes on their business income as individuals, rather than as a corporation. But since Obama's plan wouldn't affect those making less than $250,000 for couples, or about $200,000 for singles, we need to estimate how many would fall into those high-income categories.
Obama's plan, according to his economic policy director Jason Furman, would return the top two federal income-tax rates to what they were before Bush lowered them. In addition, Obama would adjust the income-tax brackets to ensure that no married couple making under $250,000 or single filer making under $200,000 would pay the top rates.
The actual number of business owners who would be affected turns out to be well under a million, and the number of employers would be even less. Based on the number of taxpayers who now report any sort of business income on their returns, the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center projects that 663,608 taxpayers with business income, or business losses, will fall into the top two tax brackets in 2009, when any Obama tax changes would first take effect. Not all of those can properly be called "small-business owners," however. Some are farmers. Many are lawyers, accountants or other professionals who get some of their income in the form of partnership distributions. Others may be passive investors in real-estate partnerships or similar investment arrangements and not really persons who own and manage a business.
It is also not clear how many who report business income actually employ any workers. In 2004, the Tax Policy Center found that hundreds of thousands of individual taxpayers who had business income from partnerships or subchapter-S corporations (whose owners pay taxes as individuals) did not claim any tax deductions for employee expenses. For all these reasons we judge that the actual number of small-business employers who would face higher tax rates under Obama is probably far below 663,608, and certainly a far cry from McCain's ridiculously inflated 23 million figure.
Lower Taxes for Many
While Obama's plan would raise rates at the top, it also would grant what he calls a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. Since this credit would not begin to phase down for couples making less than $150,000, we judge it likely that many, if not most of the 23 million that McCain counts as "small-business owners" would likely get tax reductions.
An Echo of Bush
McCain's claim struck us as wildly improbable the first time we heard it because we debunked a much less expansive claim that President Bush made about John Kerry in 2004. Bush ran a TV ad saying that Kerry's proposal to raise taxes on persons making more than $200,000 a year would affect 900,000 small-business owners. We found Bush's number to be far too high. We noted that Bush was counting as a "small-business owner" anyone who reported even $1 of business or partnership income, regardless of how the taxpayer made their living. At that time, the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimated that a total of 471,000 small-business employers could be affected.
– by Brooks Jackson
Sources
John McCain 2008. "Remarks By John McCain On His Jobs For America Economic Plan," 7 July 2008.
CQ Transcripts. "McCain Addresses the League of United Latin American Citizens." washingtonpost.com, 8 July 2008.
John McCain 2008. "Remarks by John McCain at his Ohio Town Hall Meeting," 9 July 2008.
John McCain 2008. "John McCain's Weekly Radio Address," 12 July 2008.
U.S. Census Bureau. "Statistics about Business Size (including Small Business) from the U.S. Census Bureau," Web site accessed 14 July 2008.
Office of Advocacy, U.S. Small Business Administration. "Frequently Asked Questions; How many small businesses are there?" Web site accessed 14 July 2008.
Office of Advocacy, U.S. Small Business Administration. "Private Firms, Establishments, Employment, Annual Payroll and Receipts by Firm Size, 1988-2005," accessed 14 July 2008.
U.C. Census Bureau. "Nonemployer statistics: Coverage and Methodology," accessed 14 July 2008.
Claudia Parsons. "Obama proposes small business tax credits for health." Reuters, 14 July 2008.
Table T08-0164 "Distribution of Tax Units with Business Income by Statutory Marginal Tax Rate, Assuming Extension and Indexation of the 2007 AMT Patch, 2009" Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, 20 May 2008.
"Kerry tax plan and small business." Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, 14 Sept. 2004.
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She's also a person who thinks even women who've been raped shouln't be allowed abortions
A friend of mine in school has a 4.0 and has a full ride scholarship. She was the product of a rape. I think women should think twice before they consider abortions.
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A friend of mine in school has a 4.0 and has a full ride scholarship. She was the product of a rape. I think women should think twice before they consider abortions.
Yes... They should think twice and then do it.
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Thanks Adonis, I will read that soon, lots of info. Important to keep getting info from unbiased sources because there is so much misinformation and spin.
Will Obama force small businesses under 25 workers to carry health insurance for employees? I heard that but need it verified. Even with tax breaks, that would break many small companies...it would mine.
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Thanks Adonis, I will read that soon, lots of info. Important to keep getting info from unbiased sources because there is so much misinformation and spin.
Will Obama force small businesses under 25 workers to carry health insurance for employees? I heard that but need it verified. Even with tax breaks, that would break many small companies...it would mine.
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2008/09/01/gvsa0901.htm
American Medical News-News for America`s Physicians
HEALTH COVERAGE MANDATES
Obama: Require all children to have health insurance and require employers who don't make a "meaningful" contribution to their workers' health coverage to pay into a national health plan. Exempt small businesses and provide a tax credit.
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http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/reuters/2008/09/09/2008-09-09T050033Z_01_N08483857_RTRIDST_0_USA-POLITICS-HEALTHCARE-FACTBOX.html
Reuters
FACTBOX-McCain, Obama differ on U.S. health care
09.09.08, 1:00 AM ET
UNITED STATES - (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and Republican candidate John McCain agree Americans spend too much on drugs and doctors and largely agree on what changes to make, but they have competing proposals to carry them out. Here is a summary of their positions:
BUYING HEALTH INSURANCE
McCain would end tax breaks for employer-provided health insurance and provide a refundable tax credit of $2,500 per person, or $5,000 for families. He would promote competition by allowing people to buy insurance across state lines.
Obama has proposed a national insurance program to allow individuals and small businesses to buy health care similar to that available to federal employees, supplemented in part by a tax on employers who do not provide coverage.
Both want insurance to be portable, meaning people would not lose coverage when they switch jobs.
THE UNINSURED
McCain proposes a Guaranteed Access Plan or GAP provided by states. One example would be a nonprofit corporation that would contract with insurers.
Obama would create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help people buy private insurance, act as a watchdog and create standards. He would require health care for all children, and expand Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program or SCHIP.
IMPROVING CARE
Both candidates support electronic health records to improve record-keeping and reduce errors. Obama would launch a federally backed system.
Both also support better coordination of care. Obama health advisers support the idea of a "medical home" -- a primary care doctor who would help coordinate and oversee care.
Both candidates praise smoking cessation and weight-loss programs, especially those offered by employers.
Obama has studied the possibility of paying doctors to spend time with patients on preventing disease and rewarding them for better outcomes.
LOWERING COSTS
McCain wants to slow the double-digit growth that now makes health care spending 16 percent of the U.S. Gross Domestic Product.
Obama says he can reduce health care spending by 8 percent and save each taxpayer $2,500 with his ideas.
Both candidates support a plan to re-import drugs -- meaning U.S. providers could buy them from countries that have negotiated lower prices with pharmaceutical companies. Both also support the wider development and use of generic drugs.
To lower costs for doctors, McCain proposes tort reform to reduce the number of lawsuits that doctors must insure against. Obama prefers to strengthen antitrust laws to lower insurance costs for doctors.
Both also encourage walk-in clinics at stores and elsewhere for routine health checks.
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dollar against the Euro, last 5 years.
Can your bank account take another 5 years of decline using Bush/Mccain policy?
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i don't care if sarah palin, john mccane or any other crony was a nice person, unless they're a democrat i'm voting for obama
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I dont see how voting for a guy that thinks stealing from those who work and giving to those who wont work is good for the country.I dont see how pushing us a step closer to socialism is a good way to go.I certainly dont want Joe Biden,a proven liar and a man who has taken away more liberty from us then almost any other senator,anywhere near the presidency.
I don't see how anyone can be so STUPID as to think that it is STEALING when the GREEDY who make MILLIONS per year and who have all manner of LOOP HOLES to jump through so that they pay less in taxes than someone making 25,000 per year. The WELL TO DO are ofter paying a max of 15% tax while the masses are paying 30 to 50%, the wealthy masses have overseas accounts, tax breaks, loop holes, and benefits galore when it comes to preserving their wealth....the average have nothing and pay the LION SHARE of taxes and fees for everything. The wealthy have already achieved everythgn that one can have, home(s), car(s), education, marriage, life and health insurance, world travel etc etc. The average will NEVER own a home, will afford a economy car at BEST, are often without insurance of any type and getting a college education is practically a DREAM now....SHAMEFUL. and you want to continue this practice??? I say TAX THE SHIT OUT OF THE WEALTHY...They are the ones who have obtained their wealth out of corrupt means anyway.
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I have been on this board way too much tonight.
With that being said, I think each person should look at their own personal situation.
Are your bills paid? Do your children have food, clothing, shelter? Can you afford a vacation each year/
If you can do all of these things, in my mind you are rich and living the American dream. If you have insurance, retirement funds and healthcare,you are living the American dream.
If you have excess over what you and your family needs, why not contribute to those less fortunate than you?
How many homes can you live in at one time? How many cars/boats/golf/tennis/jewelry do you need before you have enough?
Doris Duke died a Billionairess.
She couldn't take it with her.
Sandra
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No ur right but why should I give it to someone who has not earned it.
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No ur right but why should I give it to someone who has not earned it.
I agree. You should burn it when you're done. In fact, I hope you haven't spent any money on your kids.... God knows they haven't earned it.
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Yeah...ok jackass.
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ROFL. Touched a nerve?
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ROFL. Touched a nerve?
ROFLMAO Calmus, you are melting down Getbig`s richest Millionaire. hahhahhahhahhahh
Headhuntersix is by far one of the biggest clowns out of the trailer park masquerading as smooth corporate executive.
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ROFLMAO Calmus, you are melting down Getbig`s richest Millionaire. hahhahhahhahhahh
Headhuntersix is by far one of the biggest clowns out of the trailer park masquerading as smooth corporate executive.
Actually HH6 is one of the reasons why defense spending is out of control (second-rate hummers cost our armed forces nearly a quarter of a million apiece ::) ).
And he doesn't believe in giving money to people who haven't earned it. ROFL.
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I don't believe in giving money to those that haven't earned it. There is nothing wrong with that, it is one thing to help, it is another thing to give handouts.
While I appreciate the figures, and they are interesting; what I want to know is how is Obama going to pay for all of this? Are the tax increases on the rich going to cover credits, cuts in other places, increase in number of programs, etc.? I haven't seen anything to suggest where this money is coming from or if the new taxes will be enough. If he has to borrow then he isn't helping anything.
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Actually HH6 is one of the reasons why defense spending is out of control (second-rate hummers cost our armed forces nearly a quarter of a million apiece ::) ).
And he doesn't believe in giving money to people who haven't earned it. ROFL.
The Hummer was not designed for what we have it doing. The Hummer works great for what we bought it for. Please don't comment on things u have no real idea about.
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The Hummer was not designed for what we have it doing. The Hummer works great for what we bought it for. Please don't comment on things u have no real idea about.
Are you sure...Everyone on getbig knows my brother is Marine Recon since 99...he was with the first group in Iraq...We talked about the equipment, not the armor, the truck itself. He was TL and he had dumb issues with the trucks from simple shit like hoses, plugs. Not to mention the lack of armor...
Dude you are not going to put shit on a stick and call it a chocolate popsickle.
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It's hard to believe that some people believe that Obama's platform is socialism/communism and that their hard-earned dollars are being doled out to shiftless lazy people.
Where do you guys get this shit? It's such tired and cliched rightwing rhetoric that you'd think a modicum of fact-based analysis might just be fun for a change.
I would think that you guys are referencing Welfare--AFDC and food stamps. Those programs cost about 1% of the budget.
Consider this in your railing against those anti-poverty programs: The US economy needs an unemployment rate for a healthy economy. 100% employment would overheat the economy giving rise to inflation.
Conservative economist icon Milton Friedman's theory of "the natural rate of unemployment" is the rate when inflation is what the market thinks it should be. This small pool of unutilized labor is necessary to a healthy economy.
Now if it is necessary to have a small segment of the workforce unemployed in the interests of the overall health of the economy, why do you anti-welfare people want to pull welfare (food, shelter, clothing) from these people?
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I never said it was socialism or communism. So don't paint it with a broad brush.
I do not agree with more government in any capacity as I believe it is too big as it is today. That is my main concern. Let's not forget Michele Obama's "share your piece of pie" comment. That really bothers me as she will have the ear of the POTUS. I simply asked where is the extra money that he needs coming from and if/why there will be any other wasteful programs.
Even CNN and NBC have questioned that the amount of money raised by the increase in capital taxes etc. won't be enough to cover the cuts/credits in other places.
I believe the welfare issue is people feel it is too much money and that it doesn't help empower but to simply keep people reliant on the system. I happen to agree as I have several members of my family that use welfare, and they are completely capable of working and do...sometimes they are too lazy to keep full time hours. It is examples like that that people see in their own lives that leaves a sour taste in their mouth. I understand and see that perspective, because I have seen firsthand my tax dollars "doled out to shiftless lazy people". So please don't judge just because a person questions the amount of money a person/family gets for welfare which is my main problem. It isn't just right-wing rhetoric.
Just for the record...I know we need social programs and insurances; I support them accordingly. I just think the system needs revamping and not simply more money and/or programs to replace them.
Sorry I'm at work and wasn't able to really go into depth and post numbers. I will try later
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Rob, Obama is giving you money (people under $100k) but he's taking it from people who have worked hard to make what they have made. It wasn't all that long ago that I wasn't making all that much, but I worked my ASS off to make what I make. You Rob, have an MBA, I don't have a degree (I came up 6mos short of a BS) unless a person is mentally unstable, there's no reason to not beat the odds.
Now, most people that are making alot (we'll call them the rich) usually are business owners and if that's the case, they would position themselves to have ton of write off's. The way I look at it, Obama want's to tax 50% of my personal income, tax the shit out my business and what does that leave me with to take care of my family? No, he wants to take what I make to feed someone elses family. Don't get me wrong, I do my share of cherity work, but it's of my own doing!
In other words, the rich will find a way to legally dodge the tax hikes. Therefore, for Obama to pay for his programs, guess who's going to get pillaged and plundered, instead.
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In other words, the rich will find a way to legally dodge the tax hikes. Therefore, for Obama to pay for his programs, guess who's going to get pillaged and plundered, instead.
Oh brother. Guess you'd rather pay for McCain's 100 year war instead. it will be much cheaper. ::) ANd then he'll be off to fight the Russians in Georgia. Guess you'd like that too.
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Oh brother. Guess you'd rather pay for McCain's 100 year war instead. it will be much cheaper. ::) ANd then he'll be off to fight the Russians in Georgia. Guess you'd like that too.
McCain didn't say anything about a 100-year war. So, please put that tired talking point back in the scrap heap.
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McCain didn't say anything about a 100-year war.
yes, he did.
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yes, he did.
Not coming on. You know as well as I do he didn't mean we would be fighting there for 100 years. Dammit Rob quit spinning this shit.
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Not coming on. You know as well as I do he didn't mean we would be fighting there for 100 years. Dammit Rob quit spinning this shit.
Perhaps it's too hard for your pea brain to grasp that we have already been fighting for thebetter part of a decade and it's going to cost us trillions already. Dummkopf.
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Dummkopf.
don't ask why. hahaha
reading this reminded me of this guy ;D
(http://www.hogansheroesfanclub.com/images/tvGuide06may1967p16SchultzPictureLarge.jpg)
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Perhaps it's too hard for your pea brain to grasp that we have already been fighting for thebetter part of a decade and it's going to cost us trillions already. Dummkopf.
Wow.....just think another 92 years to go ::)