Author Topic: The Real Sarah Palin  (Read 7286 times)

shootfighter1

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2008, 12:37:23 PM »
Also, consider overall taxation, not just income tax.  Obama will increase nearly all taxation as he is increasing the size & power of the federal gov.  Additional increases in the marriage tax, payroll tax, capital gains tax, and estate taxes.  My guess is that we will see other tax increases as well.

Obama is an impressive person, its the idea of bigger gov and more influence that scares me.  The worst organizations I have been a part of have been very large.  The best have been small businesses with people that are personally invested and care.  This is a point from experience.

shootfighter1

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2008, 12:41:19 PM »
Yes, 240, a strong dollar will help...but I think spending decreases and lowering the national debt are the factors that will help the dollar.  Obama has high spending planned and the increase in taxes won't cover all the increased spending. 
The only way to balance our budget again is to cut military spending (which neither will likely do), cut ineffective gov programs, decrease the excessive aid we give to other countries, stop borrowing from the Chinese and help our trade deficits.
The neocons are horrible spenders, as are the far left liberals. 

kcballer

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2008, 12:45:23 PM »
One thing to consider is if you work for a small business, the McCain plan is much better.  All small business owners I know are campaigning against Obama because the tax policies will hurt them.  This, in turn, will affect their employees.  If employers are hit with more taxes, it will affect hiring, salaries and benefits offered.  I am in this position.  Obama is increasing the payroll tax which affects employment, in addition to the capital gains taxes (which affect all business owners and investors).  It doesn't sound so bad for large corporations who often use creative accounting to help survive this, but it will be very hard on small businesses.

Remember, America was built on small business and small businesses employ the majority of American workers.

Ah but as was stated earlier, the tax breaks will enduce spending within the lower-middle class so if you have a product that is truly worth buying, your sales will increase and you'll end up better off.  Also depending on your business the US dollar will be bolstered with Obama therefore import costs will decrease, so you win two fold, rather than just paying less tax whilst having less middle america able to afford your products, and a higher cost of importing goods. 
Abandon every hope...

shootfighter1

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2008, 12:47:35 PM »
Adonis, you were debating with someone the other day and defending the idea of bigger gov and socialist type philosophy.  While you made some good points, I can tell you that its a dangerous idea from a historical perspective and from an experience perspective.

I am in a unique position to have worked with small and large companies in medicine.  I can tell you with absolute certainty that the smaller companies worked better from top to bottom.  I have worked and was a part owner in a small medical clinic, which was great.  Patients loved it and most of the employees were happy.  Everyone cared.  I worked for a big hospital where the research was wonderful and the equipment was excellent but they treated their docs and patients poorly, everyone argued, passed the buck and moral was poor. No one put the patient first or felt like they should go the extra yard as far as effort.  I have worked as a medical contractor in the federal gov and there is so much waste it is surprising even to me, at all levels. Also, in the fed gov, once you hire people its so hard to fire them, even for poor performance...so many people decrease their productivity and desire to work but they remain in their positions.  Motivation drives us, so does personal investment.  The # of people who become lazy and less productive in a federal system is staggering.

shootfighter1

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2008, 12:51:14 PM »
We cannot say whether the dollar would strengthen more under one person or the other, that remains to be seen.
Also, goods & services are purchased disproportionally by the upper middle class & the rich so its more complicated in increasing domestic products.  We need to be able to compete more in a world market IMO so a stronger dollar, less business regulation, lower capital gains to attract new companies and better trade practices are important.
China and India have the lowest capital gains taxes right now and their economies and new businesses have exploded.  When you raise capital gains taxes you have less growth, less new businesses, and less $ going to the federal gov.  That is truth.

The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2008, 12:53:11 PM »
Also, consider overall taxation, not just income tax.  Obama will increase nearly all taxation as he is increasing the size & power of the federal gov.  Additional increases in the marriage tax, payroll tax, capital gains tax, and estate taxes.  My guess is that we will see other tax increases as well.

Obama is an impressive person, its the idea of bigger gov and more influence that scares me.  The worst organizations I have been a part of have been very large.  The best have been small businesses with people that are personally invested and care.  This is a point from experience.
Please Provide ACTUAL figures from Obama`s plan and Mccain`s plan.  Can you give me EXACT numbers?

I hear a lot of talk, but ZERO evidence of actual numbers.  Please provide them so we can see what you are claiming.

shootfighter1

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2008, 12:54:46 PM »
Sorry Adonis, I type as quick as I can between patients...can't search right now.
Your right though, we need real figures, not just people's ideas of what they think is going to happen.

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2008, 12:55:39 PM »
Shootfighter,

All of your contentions are MEANINGLESS and USELESS unless you can provide EXACT figures and Evidence.  

I have them, but I would like to see you post them so you can learn for yourself.

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2008, 12:56:45 PM »
Sorry Adonis, I type as quick as I can between patients...can't search right now.
Your right though, we need real figures, not just people's ideas of what they think is going to happen.
Deal!  When you have time! We have to be accurate here.  I will wait to see what you come up with, then I will post what I have.


calmus

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2008, 12:57:33 PM »
You ask for too much.

It's hard for shoofighter to remember the figures they throw out on Fox News.  And then how does one cite them?

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2008, 12:58:26 PM »
We cannot say whether the dollar would strengthen more under one person or the other, that remains to be seen.

I disagree.

We do know that less borrowing means the dollar regains strength.

it's only down 41% because Bush borrowed $4.5 trillion in the last 7 years.
Our debt from 1913 to 2000 was only 4.5 Trillion - TOTAL.

When you borrow that much money, your economy weakens and world faith in your ability to pay it back falls.  If Obama was able to reduce debt from 9 trillion to 7 trillion or less in 4 years... the dollar would CERTAINLY strengthen.

The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2008, 01:00:52 PM »

August 15, 2008

Obama's Small Business Tax Plan

The McCain campaign has made a lot of fuss recently about Obama and taxes. It's clear that their strategy this week turns on a classic Republican ploy: portray all Democrats as "tax-and-spend liberals." The McCain camp debuted a new ad this week called "Taxman," that declares Obama's policies an "economic disaster."

But Factcheck.org and Politifact.com take issue with that assessment, pointing out that many of the McCain campaign's claims about Obama's tax initiatives are false or misleading.

In fact, even the conservative magazine National Review recently acknowledged that Obama's plan offers more tax relief for middle class families than McCain's.

Recent McCain campaign emails specifically target Obama's tax plan for small businesses. The campaign has repeatedly claimed that Obama's tax policies would raise taxes on 23 million small businesses, but, as Factcheck.org points out, that is simply not true. The Obama plan actually provides tax relief to small businesses in the form of a proposed capital gains tax exemption and tax credits to help cover the cost of employee health plans.

During a June interview with the Wall Street Journal, Obama stated he will exempt start-up small businesses from capital gains taxes in order to encourage small business development, saying, "Companies that are starting off...should be allowed to accumulate capital, reinvest profits, if there are any, to the point that they stabilize."

And the Obama campaign's official small business plan, available on the campaign website, states:

Barack Obama will reduce the burden on small businesses in our economy by offering a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide quality health care to their employees. The Obama Small Business Health Tax Credit will provide a refundable credit of up to 50 percent on premiums paid by small businesses on behalf of their employees.

Factcheck.org concludes that under Obama's small business tax policies, in terms of overall tax rates, "The vast majority would see no change, and many would get a cut."

In addition to a small-business-friendly tax plan, Obama has put forth a number of other policy proposals to encourage small business growth.

Obama plans to allow small businesses to participate in a cooperative National Health Exchange to give them the same collective bargaining power in negotiations with health insurance companies that larger corporations currently enjoy. He also proposes a federal health care re-insurance program that would protect small businesses against catastrophic losses related to employee health care coverage.

Obama outlines an expansion of the Small Business Administration loan program that would make it easier for start-up small business entrepreneurs, particularly women and minorities, to access capital for a new business, and imagines a national network of public-private business incubators that would educate and support new business owners to foster greater small business success.

To support women in business, Obama plans to enforce the guidelines set down by Congress during the Clinton Administration under the Women-Owned Business Federal Contract Assistance Program, which state that the federal government should aim to award 5% of yearly contract funds to women-owned small businesses. Currently, the federal government is failing to meet even that incredibly conservative benchmark. (Yes, you read that correctly. The federal government is failing to award even 5% of its contracts to women-owned small businesses. I'm flabbergasted.)

Obama's small business proposals also include providing disaster relief funds to small businesses in the event of a major natural disaster, improving internet access in rural areas that lack communications infrastructure, to help small rural businesses compete with urban businesses on the web, and offering technical support and training to rural business owners.

You can read about many of Obama's small business proposals in this official campaign document.

The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2008, 01:03:11 PM »
BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN FOR SMALL BUSINESS

There are approximately 25.8 million businesses in the United States and over 99 percent of all employers are small businesses, according to the U.S. Small Business Administration. Barack Obama will help small businesses by cutting health care costs, improving access to capital and investing in innovation and development. Lower Health Care Costs with a New Small Business Health Tax Credit: Barack Obama understands that the skyrocketing cost of healthcare poses a serious competitive threat to America’s small businesses.

Small businesses are the drivers of job growth in our economy, creating, on average, more than two-thirds of net new jobs each year. Yet small business owners face unique challenges in providing health care to their employees, including higher administrative costs, lower bargaining power, greater price volatility and fewer pooling options. Barack Obama will reduce the burden on small businesses in our economy by offering a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide quality health care to their employees. The Obama Small Business Health Tax Credit will provide a refundable credit of up to 50 percent on premiums paid by small businesses on behalf of their employees. Obama’s Small Business Health Tax Credit will work alongside other aspects of his health care plan to lower costs and improve competitiveness for America’s small businesses, including: • Access to a Low-cost National Health Exchange: The Obama health care plan will provide small businesses with new opportunities to buy low-cost, high quality health plans for their employees through a national exchange similar that will allow small businesses to get the same benefits of spreading risk and administrative costs over a large pool that larger businesses currently enjoy. • Reduced Volatility and Lower Costs by Reimbursing Catastrophic Costs: The Obama plan will reimburse employer health plans for a portion of the catastrophic costs they incur above a threshold if they guarantee such savings are used to reduce the cost of workers’ premiums. This reimbursement (often called reinsurance) is particularly important for small business plans, which can be overwhelmed by the costs of catastrophic expenditures for even a single employee. • Investment in Cost Reduction and Quality Improvement Strategies: The Obama plan will aggressively lower health costs by facilitating broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, and other value-increasing innovations improving chronic care management, and increasing insurance market competition.

Provide Zero Capital Gains and Other Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Ups: Barack Obama believes that we need to reduce burdens on small business owners, many of whom are struggling to succeed as health care and energy costs continue to skyrocket. Barack Obama will also eliminate all capital gains taxes on small and start-up businesses to encourage innovation and job creation. Obama will support small business owners by providing a $500 “Making Work Pay” tax credit to almost every worker in America. Self-employed small business owners pay both the employee and the employer side of the payroll tax, and this measure will reduce the burdens of this double taxation.


 Expand Loan Programs for Small Businesses: Access to capital is a top concern among small business owners. Barack Obama cosponsored the bipartisan Small Business Lending Reauthorization and Improvements Act. This bill expands the Small Business Administration’s loan and micro-loan programs which provide start-up and long-term financing that small firms cannot receive through normal channels. Obama will work to help more entrepreneurs get loans, expand the network of lenders, and simplify the loan approval process. Support Innovation and High-Tech Job Creation: Barack Obama believes we need to double federal funding for basic research, diversify energy sources, expand the deployment of broadband technology, and make the research and development tax credit permanent so that businesses can invest in innovation and create high-paying, secure jobs. Create a National Network of Public-Private Business Incubators: Barack Obama will support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by creating a national network of public-private business incubators. Business incubators facilitate the critical work of entrepreneurs in creating start-up companies. They offer help designing business plans, provide physical space, identify and address problems affecting all small businesseswithin a given community, and give advice on a wide range of business practices, including reducing overhead costs. Business incubators will engage the expertise and resources of local institutions of higher education and successful private sector businesses to help ensure that small businesses have both a strong plan and the resources for long-term success. Obama will invest $250 million per year to increase the number and size of incubators in disadvantaged communities throughout the country.


Invest in Women-Owned Small Businesses: Women are majority owners of more than 28 percent of U.S. businesses, but lead less than 4 percent of venture capital-backed firms. Women business owners are more likely than white male business owners to have their loan applications denied. Barack Obama encourages investment in women-owned businesses, providing more support to women business owners and reducing discrimination in lending. To create greater opportunities for women business owners who would like to do business with the federal government, Obama will implement the Women Owned Business contracting program that was signed into law by President Bill Clinton, but has yet to be implemented by the Bush Administration.Increasin g Minority Access to Capital: Access to venture capital is critically important to the development of minority-owned businesses. Yet there has been a growing gap between the amounts of venture capital available to minority-owned small businesses compared to other small businesses. Less than 1 percent of the $250 billion in venture capital dollars invested annually nationwide has been directed to the country’s 4.4 million minority business owners. And in recent years, there has been a significant decline in the share of Small Business Investment Company financings that have gone to minority-owned and women-owned businesses. In order to increase their size, capacity, and ability to do business with the federal government, and to compete in the open market, minority firms need greater access to venture capital investment, as well as greater access to business loans. Barack Obama will strengthen Small Business Administration programs that provide capital to minority-owned businesses, support outreach programs that help minority business owners apply for loans, and work to encourage the growth and capacity of minority firms.


 Promote Small Business Ownership in the Communications Industry: Barack Obama joined Senator JohnKerry (D-MA) in calling on the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to immediately address the issues of minority, women and small business media ownership before taking up a second review of wider media ownership rules. Obama has continued that fight by urging the FCC to establish an independent panel on minority and small business media ownership. As president, Obama will support efforts to achieve diverse media ownership, particularly in an era of increased media concentration.Support Local Businesses Affected by Hurricane Katrina: In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, Barack Obama introduced the Hurricane Katrina Recovery Act to rebuild the Gulf Coast. This bill included language to

 increase the government-wide goal for procurement contracts awarded to small businesses owned and controlled by socially and economically disadvantaged individuals for recovery and reconstruction activities related to Hurricane Katrina. Obama also established a government-wide goal for procurement contracts awarded to local businesses in Katrina-affected areas of 30 percent of that total value for 2006 and 2007. Provide Emergency Relief: Barack Obama supported legislation to provide emergency relief to small businesses affected by a significant increase in the price of heating oil, natural gas, propane, or kerosene. This bill authorized the Small Business Administration to make disaster loans to assist small businesses that havesuffered or are likely to suffer substantial economic injury as the result of a significant increase in the price ofheating fuel.


Support Rural Small Businesses: Barack Obama will support entrepreneurship and spur job growth by establishing a small business and micro-enterprise initiative for rural America. The program will provide training and technical assistance for rural small business, and provide a 20 percent tax credit on up to $50,000 of investment in small owner-operated businesses. This initiative will put the full support of the nation’s economic policies behind rural entrepreneurship. Promote Digital Inclusion: The lack of affordable, high-speed Internet access in rural, urban, and minority communities has created a digital divide between those who have access to the Internet and those who do not. This severely limits the growth potential of many urban and rural companies. Approximately only one-third of rural areas and half of urban areas have high-speed Internet at home or work. The areas affected by HurricaneKatrina have particularly suffered due to a lack of IT infrastructure.


 Barack Obama believes we can get true broadband to every community in America through a combination of reform of the Universal Service Fund, better use of the nation’s wireless spectrum, promotion of next-generation technologies, and new tax and loan incentives. As a key step to achieving full broadband access, Obama believes the Federal Communications Commission should provide an accurate map of broadband availability using a true definition of broadband instead of the current 200 kbs standard and an assessment of obstacles to fuller broadband penetration.

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2008, 01:06:30 PM »
ha, i love how the republicans have given up even trying to compete or talk about issues or their plans and are now 100% focused to simply slandering Obama and Biden.
they even put their blinders on and are claiming Palin is the next coming of jesus.


The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2008, 01:12:27 PM »
OBAMA ON SMALL BUSINESS TAX POLICES
Eliminate Capital Gains for Small Businesses. Obama would cut capital gains taxes to 0% for investments insmall businesses and start ups
 A New Small Business Healthcare Tax Credit. Obama would provide a 50% health care tax credit to small businesses and lower health insurance costs by$2,500 per family for all firms


MCCAIN ON SMALL BUSINESS TAX POLICES
 Would continue to tax capital gains for small businesses at 15%

Added Costs for Firms That Provide Health Insurance. McCain would tax employer contributions to employee health insurance plans for the first time in history.

The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2008, 01:16:04 PM »
So there you have it.

MCCAIN is WORSE on Small Business taxes when each plan is side by side.

You can`t argue with FACTS AND EVIDENCE!

The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2008, 01:29:56 PM »
Small business: How McCain, Obama compare
BRIAN TUMULTY
Gannett News Service

WASHINGTON - The two major candidates for president - Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama — have mapped out widely different approaches to the issues of top concern to small businesses.
Cost of health coverage

McCain would eliminate the tax exemption employees get for employer provided health insurance and replace it with a refundable tax credit of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to either purchase their own coverage or offset their portion of the cost of employer-provided coverage.
Obama would keep the current tax exemption for employer health coverage and offer a new tax credit for up to 50 percent of the cost of coverage provided by small businesses.
Both candidates also support measures to control rising health care costs.
Cost of fuel and electricity

McCain supported a tax holiday for the federal gasoline tax through Labor Day — a proposal Obama opposed.
McCain supports ending the taxation of imported ethanol, expanding domestic oil and gas drilling, wants the nation to build 45 new nuclear power plants by 2030 and would spend $2 billion annually to research clean-coal technology.
Obama supports congressional passage of a second economic stimulus package that would provide rebate checks to people to offset the high cost of gasoline and impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies with the money going for home weatherization and fuel assistance programs for low-income families.
Obama opposes expanding drilling rights and would keep in place the tax on imported ethanol.
Corporate tax rate

McCain wants to reduce the corporate income taxes to 25 percent from the 35 percent rate effectively paid by large corporations.
But corporations with taxable incomes under $75,000 already pay a 25 percent rate and those with taxable income under $50,000 pay 15 percent.
George Plesko, a professor of accounting at the University of Connecticut, said his analysis of Internal Revenue Service data indicates a minority of corporations are subject to the 35 percent rate.
In fact, many small business corporations may not pay any corporate taxes. In 2003, just more than 1.8 million corporations filed a Form 1120A with the IRS to report income below $500,000 and only half of them - 902,015 - had a positive net income subject to the corporate tax rate.
Obama has not made a specific proposal for lowering the corporate tax rate, but has indicated he would consider cutting the top rate during a larger overhaul of corporate taxes that eliminates the tax breaks given to companies that move operations overseas.
Individual tax rates

Most small business owners pay federal taxes based on the individual rates paid by singles, a head of household or married couple.
McCain wants to permanently extend the Bush tax cuts that lowered the top income tax rate to 35 percent.
Obama would restore the top individual rates of 36 percent and 39.6 percent paid by high income Americans.
In 2009, an estimated 457,000 individuals in the current top tax bracket of 35 percent will report business income on their tax returns, according to Len Burman, director of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
Estate taxes

Although federal estate taxes do not rank among the top 30 issues listed by members of the National Federation of Independent Business in a February survey, McCain lists it as part of his small business agenda. The Arizona senator would raise the threshold for estates subject to the federal estate tax to $5 million for individuals and $10 million for couples, after which the federal tax rate would be 15 percent.
Obama would freeze the estate tax at 2009 levels. That would mean that estates of individuals with more than $3.5 million in assets and couples with more than $7 million would be subject to a 45 percent tax rate above those amounts.
"In 2011, we estimate that about 4,100 estates would be taxable under Senator McCain's plan and 8,300 under Senator Obama's," said Burman. In comparison, about 2.4 million Americans died annually. About one-tenth of 1 percent of estates would be taxed under the McCain plan and about three-tenths of 1 percent under the Obama proposal.

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2008, 01:32:16 PM »

You can`t argue with FACTS AND EVIDENCE!

I apologize as well for not responding, as I post when I get a break at work.  I will try to get a better answer to you, time permitting.

I did notice that your facts are coming from BarakObama.com and momocrats.com, whose tagline is "Rage Against McCain".  I will try to find some independant sources.
Y

Mark Kerr

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2008, 01:35:13 PM »
I disagree.

We do know that less borrowing means the dollar regains strength.

it's only down 41% because Bush borrowed $4.5 trillion in the last 7 years.
Our debt from 1913 to 2000 was only 4.5 Trillion - TOTAL.

When you borrow that much money, your economy weakens and world faith in your ability to pay it back falls.  If Obama was able to reduce debt from 9 trillion to 7 trillion or less in 4 years... the dollar would CERTAINLY strengthen.

Wow.

Is that accurate?

Where did you see those numbers?

The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2008, 01:38:30 PM »
www.obamataxcut.com


A cool site to figure out what you will pay under Obama.

Data is from Tax Policy Center, non-partisan

The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2008, 01:39:42 PM »
www.obamataxcut.com


A cool site to figure out what you will pay under Obama.

Data is from Tax Policy Center, non-partisan
www.obamataxcut.com

ALSO compares Mccain`s plan when you put in your figures.


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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2008, 01:39:55 PM »

Option D

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2008, 01:41:30 PM »
Wow.

Is that accurate?

Where did you see those numbers?

THATS WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO ASK   :o

The True Adonis

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Re: The Real Sarah Palin
« Reply #74 on: September 09, 2008, 01:44:28 PM »
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html
McCain's Small-Business Bunk
July 14, 2008
He claims 23 million small-business owners would pay higher tax rates under Obama. He's wrong. The vast majority would see no change, and many would get a cut.
Summary
McCain has repeatedly claimed that Obama would raise tax rates for 23 million small-business owners. It's a false and preposterously inflated figure.

We find that the overwhelming majority of those small-business owners would see no increase, because they earn too little to be affected. Obama's tax proposal would raise rates only on couples making more than $250,000 or singles earning more than $200,000.

McCain argues that Obama's proposed increase is a job-killer. He has a point. It's true that increasing taxes on those at the top would leave them less money for other purposes, including investment and hiring in the case of business owners. But the number of business owners who would see their rates go up would be only a small fraction of what McCain says. Many would see their taxes go down.

Analysis

Sen. John McCain has been making this false claim over and over, starting with a  July 7 speech announcing his "jobs for America" plan:
McCain, July 7: Senator Obama's tax increases will hurt the economy even more, and destroy jobs across this country. If you are one of the 23 million small-business owners in America who files as an individual rate payer, Senator Obama is going to raise your tax rates.
He repeated it in an address to the League of United Latin American Citizens the next day:
McCain, July 8: Keeping individual rates low isn't intended as a favor to wealthy Americans. 23 million small-business owners pay those rates, and taking more money from them deprives them of the capital they need to invest and grow and hire.
He said it again at a campaign event July 9:
McCain, July 9: If you are one of the 23 million small-business owners in America who files as an individual rate payer, Senator Obama is willing to raise your tax rates.
And he repeated it in the first of a planned series of radio addresses July 12:
McCain, July 12: If you are one of the 23 million small-business owners who files as an individual rate payer, watch out – because as your business grows, my opponent proposes to raise your taxes.
But repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true. McCain's 23 million claim is a bogus figure.

Outdated, Inflated, Inapplicable

To justify the 23 million figure, McCain spokesman Brian Rogers referred us to a press release by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which refers to "23 million small business owners" without citing a source. That is actually an outdated count of all the businesses in the United States, produced by the U.S. Census for 2002, when the Economic Census counted a total of 23,343,821 business firms of all sizes. Of those, 16,845 firms employed 500 persons or more, which still leaves just over 23.3 million classified as "small" by the widely accepted definition that we will use here.

That figure is six years out of date. The U.S. Small Business Administration Office of Advocacy estimates the total number of "small" firms with fewer than 500 workers reached 26.8 million in 2006. That's the most recent estimate. But it is also inflated. Since the total U.S. population was just under 300 million in 2006, it would mean that one in every 11 Americans – men, women and children – is a "small-business owner."

It turns out, SBA's estimate includes more than 20 million "nonemployer" firms, an unknown number of them sideline or hobby businesses run by persons who actually make their living some other way. Census and SBA count as a "small business" anyone who reported as little as $1,000 of business receipts. By that very broad definition, John McCain himself is a "small-business owner," because his tax return shows Schedule C income from book royalties. For that matter, Barack Obama would also be a small-business owner, by virtue of his book income. As would President Bush and Vice President Cheney, as we pointed out in 2004. Of the 26.8 million that SBA counts as "small businesses," fewer than 6 million are actually "employer firms" with any payroll.

From this, we must conclude that to arrive at his 23 million figure, McCain is counting mostly "business owners" with no workers, including those who simply report small amounts of income from sideline or freelance work. McCain is arguing that Obama's tax increase would "destroy jobs," but he's counting mostly firms that don't produce any.

That in itself is seriously misleading. If McCain wants to focus on the effects of Obama's plan on employment, he would do better to confine his count to employers – the just under 6 million firms that actually have workers. And even that figure wouldn't be applicable because Obama's tax increase wouldn't fall on all employers, only on those in the top two income tax brackets.

McCain Campaign's Statement

1. These small businesses are subject to Sen. Obama's pay or play health care plan: The tax will either be in the form of health insurance to
workers or cash to the government.

2. Further, even giving Obama the benefit of the doubt, if they make
over $250,000 and file as individuals or have capital gain or dividends, their taxes go up, as Obama has promised.

Note US Chamber cites 23 million figure: "The U.S. Chamber is proud to pay special tribute to some of its most valued constituents: America's
23 million small business owners"
McCain's Non-explanation

McCain cannot justify his 23 million claim. We asked McCain spokesman Brian Rogers for substantiation and received the statement that we reprint here. We find it simply won't do.

Rogers starts by saying that Obama's health care proposal to provide coverage for uninsured workers would amount to a "tax," either in the form of higher costs for covering employees or "cash to the government." But McCain was talking about income tax rates, not higher business costs. That's not justifying McCain's claim; that's trying to change the subject.

Furthermore – as we've just seen – the vast majority of those that McCain is counting as small-business owners have no employees and wouldn't encounter any added costs for covering workers. Obama's plan wouldn't apply to every small employer, either. It says: "Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt." Also, after Rogers sent his message, Obama announced July 13 that he is proposing to grant $6 billion per year in tax credits for small businesses that provide health insurance plans, covering up to half the cost of premiums paid to cover employees.

As for actual income tax rates, which is what McCain keeps talking about, Rogers says "if they make over $250,000 and file as individuals ... their taxes go up." But  this leaves out all but a very small fraction of those McCain counts as small-business owners. Rogers also says taxes will go up if small-business owners "have capital gains or dividends," but Obama's proposal would not increase rates on capital gains or dividends for couples making under $250,000, or singles making under about $200,000, regardless of whether they are classified as small-business owners or not.

How Many Would Actually Pay More?

McCain is right about one thing. Many small-business owners would indeed see their taxes go up if Obama is elected and raises the top income-tax rates. According to a survey from the National Federation of Independent Businesses, about eight out of 10 small-business owners responding to the poll report that they are organized legally in a way that would require them to pay taxes on their business income as individuals, rather than as a corporation. But since Obama's plan wouldn't affect those making less than $250,000 for couples, or about $200,000 for singles, we need to estimate how many would fall into those high-income categories.

Obama's plan, according to his economic policy director Jason Furman, would return the top two federal income-tax rates to what they were before Bush lowered them. In addition, Obama would adjust the income-tax brackets to ensure that no married couple making under $250,000 or single filer making under $200,000 would pay the top rates.

The actual number of business owners who would be affected turns out to be well under a million, and the number of employers would be even less. Based on the number of taxpayers who now report any sort of business income on their returns, the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center projects that 663,608 taxpayers with business income, or business losses, will fall into the top two tax brackets in 2009, when any Obama tax changes would first take effect. Not all of those can properly be called "small-business owners," however. Some are farmers. Many are lawyers, accountants or other professionals who get some of their income in the form of partnership distributions. Others may be passive investors in real-estate partnerships or similar investment arrangements and not really persons who own and manage a business.

It is also not clear how many who report business income actually employ any workers. In 2004, the Tax Policy Center found that hundreds of thousands of individual taxpayers who had business income from partnerships or subchapter-S corporations (whose owners pay taxes as individuals) did not claim any tax deductions for employee expenses. For all these reasons we judge that the actual number of small-business employers who would face higher tax rates under Obama is probably far below 663,608, and certainly a far cry from McCain's ridiculously inflated 23 million figure.

Lower Taxes for Many

While Obama's plan would raise rates at the top, it also would grant what he calls a “Making Work Pay” tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. Since this credit would not begin to phase down for couples making less than $150,000, we judge it likely that many, if not most of the 23 million that McCain counts as "small-business owners" would likely get tax reductions.
 
An Echo of Bush

McCain's claim struck us as wildly improbable the first time we heard it because we debunked a much less expansive claim that President Bush made about John Kerry in 2004. Bush ran a TV ad saying that Kerry's proposal to raise taxes on persons making more than $200,000 a year would affect 900,000 small-business owners. We found Bush's number to be far too high. We noted that Bush was counting as a "small-business owner" anyone who reported even $1 of business or partnership income, regardless of how the taxpayer made their living. At that time, the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimated that a total of 471,000 small-business employers could be affected.

– by Brooks Jackson
Sources
John McCain 2008. "Remarks By John McCain On His Jobs For America Economic Plan," 7 July 2008.

CQ Transcripts. "McCain Addresses the League of United Latin American Citizens." washingtonpost.com, 8 July 2008.

John McCain 2008. "Remarks by John McCain at his Ohio Town Hall Meeting,"  9 July 2008.

John McCain 2008. "John McCain's Weekly Radio Address," 12 July 2008.

U.S. Census Bureau. "Statistics about Business Size (including Small Business) from the U.S. Census Bureau," Web site accessed 14 July 2008.

Office of Advocacy, U.S. Small Business Administration. "Frequently Asked Questions; How many small businesses are there?" Web site accessed 14 July 2008.

Office of Advocacy, U.S. Small Business Administration. "Private Firms, Establishments, Employment, Annual Payroll and Receipts by Firm Size, 1988-2005," accessed 14 July 2008.

U.C. Census Bureau. "Nonemployer statistics: Coverage and Methodology," accessed 14 July 2008.

Claudia Parsons. "Obama proposes small business tax credits for health." Reuters, 14 July 2008.

Table T08-0164 "Distribution of Tax Units with Business Income by Statutory Marginal Tax Rate, Assuming Extension and Indexation of the 2007 AMT Patch, 2009" Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, 20 May 2008.

"Kerry tax plan and small business." Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, 14 Sept. 2004.
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