The Real Sarah Palin

[ManBearPig...]

A truly idiotic way to vote.  I love how Republicans always claim to put "country first" then vote in their own best personal interest.

How about YOU put country first for once and vote what will benefit the entire nation.

why? putting someone else's interests over your own is about as un-american as you can get.

[Top Dog]

Joe - for YOU - Mccain is the right choice.  You've posted on getbig that you made over 300k last year.  Very good money.  Obama will take a bigger chunk of your money, and adversely affect your lifestyle and spending habits.  For you, Obama sucks.  If you're already tight on $, Obama may cost you your home as you mentioned.  That sucks, big time.

For any of us making under 100,000.... Obama will help.

The thing is that rich people don't care about poor people, and vice versa.

To be fair - bush didn't raise taxes when things were good.  The 2001 Bush tax cuts were very huge in that they hooked up rich people, who usually get taxed a lot during good times.  bush hooked you up bigtime for 7 years, Joe.

For you, Mccain is a MUCH better answer.
For us making under $100k, Obama will give us more money.  Period.

How the hell have the polls gone the Mccain way so dramatically? I'm a conservative who doesn't like McCain but could never vote for a liberal. Having said that, I can't believe the numbers among independants....over 50% Mccain.  And a very important poll....likely voters....have the same results.  

[BM OUT]

A truly idiotic way to vote.  I love how Republicans always claim to put "country first" then vote in their own best personal interest.

How about YOU put country first for once and vote what will benefit the entire nation.

I dont see how voting for a guy that thinks stealing from those who work and giving to those who wont work is good for the country.I dont see how pushing us a step closer to socialism is a good way to go.I certainly dont want Joe Biden,a proven liar and a man who has taken away more liberty from us then almost any other senator,anywhere near the presidency.

[240 is Back]

How the hell have the polls gone the Mccain way so dramatically? I'm a conservative who doesn't like McCain but could never vote for a liberal. Having said that, I can't believe the numbers among independants....over 50% Mccain.  And a very important poll....likely voters....have the same results.  

because there are a small % of voters who change their mind each week.

They vote based upon which candidate they'd like to have a beer with.
They vote based upon which candidate pwns the other that week in news blurbs.
They vote based upon gender, race, war experience, hair color, etc.

Most of us vote with our pocketbook.

[ManBearPig...]

I dont see how voting for a guy that thinks stealing from those who work and giving to those who wont work is good for the country.I dont see how pushing us a step closer to socialism is a good way to go.I certainly dont want Joe Biden,a proven liar and a man who has taken away more liberty from us then almost any other senator,anywhere near the presidency.

Billy Mimnaugh, are you trying to imply that our vote always comes down to who we think is the least shitty person, not the best qualified?

[The Coach]

Joe - for YOU - Mccain is the right choice.  You've posted on getbig that you made over 300k last year.  Very good money.  Obama will take a bigger chunk of your money, and adversely affect your lifestyle and spending habits.  For you, Obama sucks.  If you're already tight on $, Obama may cost you your home as you mentioned.  That sucks, big time.

For any of us making under 100,000.... Obama will help.

The thing is that rich people don't care about poor people, and vice versa.

To be fair - bush didn't raise taxes when things were good.  The 2001 Bush tax cuts were very huge in that they hooked up rich people, who usually get taxed a lot during good times.  bush hooked you up bigtime for 7 years, Joe.

For you, Mccain is a MUCH better answer.
For us making under $100k, Obama will give us more money.  Period.

Rob, Obama is giving you money (people under $100k) but he's taking it from people who have worked hard to make what they have made. It wasn't all that long ago that I wasn't making all that much, but I worked my ASS off to make what I make. You Rob, have an MBA, I don't have a degree (I came up 6mos short of a BS) unless a person is mentally unstable, there's no reason to not beat the odds.

Now, most people that are making alot (we'll call them the rich) usually are business owners and if that's the case, they would position themselves to have ton of write off's. The way I look at it, Obama want's to tax 50% of my personal income, tax the shit out my business and what does that leave me with to take care of my family? No, he wants to take what I make to feed someone elses family. Don't get me wrong, I do my share of cherity work, but it's of my own doing!

[Top Dog]

because there are a small % of voters who change their mind each week.

They vote based upon which candidate they'd like to have a beer with.
They vote based upon which candidate pwns the other that week in news blurbs.
They vote based upon gender, race, war experience, hair color, etc.

Most of us vote with our pocketbook.

I buy very little of that. If everyone voted with their pocketbook, Obama would be way ahead. And if it was based on who was getting pwnd in a given week, once again Obama would have a considerable margin based on the attacks on Palin which have been vicious. Biden has gotten a free ride so far but I'm sure they'll get to him.

[tu_holmes]

Billy Mimnaugh, are you trying to imply that our vote always comes down to who we think is the least shitty person, not the best qualified?

It's always the wallet...

The reality is that the one thing that affects any average american on an on-going basis is taxes... That's it.

Now, I see it differently... The value of the dollar makes a big deal to me.

[240 is Back]

Rob, Obama is giving you money (people under $100k) but he's taking it from people who have worked hard to make what they have made. It wasn't all that long ago that I wasn't making all that much, but I worked my ASS off to make what I make. You Rob, have an MBA, I don't have a degree (I came up 6mos short of a BS) unless a person is mentally unstable, there's no reason to not beat the odds.

Now, most people that are making alot (we'll call them the rich) usually are business owners and if that's the case, they would position themselves to have ton of write off's. The way I look at it, Obama want's to tax 50% of my personal income, tax the shit out my business and what does that leave me with to take care of my family? No, he wants to take what I make to feed someone elses family. Don't get me wrong, I do my share of cherity work, but it's of my own doing!

It's fucked up.  No doubt.

The problem is, people here have to make a decision.  Do they do what is RIGHT?  Or do they do what puts money into their pockets?

If you ask any member here which they'd prefer - to have an extra $2,500 next year, or to keep some guy in Cali they'll never meet from getting screwed... which do you think they'll pick?

Mccain's tax plan appeals majorly to the top 5% of earners, which include you.

Obama's tax plan appeals majorly to the bottom 95% of earners, which includes me and most people reading this post right now.


It sucks, but it's reality.  For the last 7 years, Bush's economic policy had you keeping a larger % of your money than at anytime during history during a non-recession.  I mean, you lucky folks making 200k and over were keeping a TON of it.  I hope you stashed away a lot of it, knowing it wouldn't last forever.

[tu_holmes]

I buy very little of that. If everyone voted with their pocketbook, Obama would be way ahead. And if it was based on who was getting pwnd in a given week, once again Obama would have a considerable margin based on the attacks on Palin which have been vicious. Biden has gotten a free ride so far but I'm sure they'll get to him.

I disagree... many people believe that even though they are not rich today... They may one day BE rich.

Also, it's not JUST their wallets... but it's a LARGE majority. Some people do vote with the fact that they'd like to have a beer with the guy... Didn't work out well for us with the last guy... but that's just my take on it.

Rob, Obama is giving you money (people under $100k) but he's taking it from people who have worked hard to make what they have made. It wasn't all that long ago that I wasn't making all that much, but I worked my ASS off to make what I make. You Rob, have an MBA, I don't have a degree (I came up 6mos short of a BS) unless a person is mentally unstable, there's no reason to not beat the odds.

Now, most people that are making alot (we'll call them the rich) usually are business owners and if that's the case, they would position themselves to have ton of write off's. The way I look at it, Obama want's to tax 50% of my personal income, tax the shit out my business and what does that leave me with to take care of my family? No, he wants to take what I make to feed someone elses family. Don't get me wrong, I do my share of cherity work, but it's of my own doing!

What if your 300K taxes go from 30 to 40% but the value of your dollar goes up 250% under Obama?

Would that not be better than just having a tax cut?

[Tigerman]

It's fucked up.  No doubt.

The problem is, people here have to make a decision.  Do they do what is RIGHT?  Or do they do what puts money into their pockets?

If you ask any member here which they'd prefer - to have an extra $2,500 next year, or to keep some guy in Cali they'll never meet from getting screwed... which do you think they'll pick?

Mccain's tax plan appeals majorly to the top 5% of earners, which include you.

Obama's tax plan appeals majorly to the bottom 95% of earners, which includes me and most people reading this post right now.


It sucks, but it's reality.  For the last 7 years, Bush's economic policy had you keeping a larger % of your money than at anytime during history during a non-recession.  I mean, you lucky folks making 200k and over were keeping a TON of it.  I hope you stashed away a lot of it, knowing it wouldn't last forever.

It's not that simple Rob. I don't believe everybody who makes more than 250K will benefit from a shitty economy and lower taxes on their personal income.
Lower taxes for the middle class (income <250K), at least in the short term induce larger consumption and bigger sells for many business. The net profit for many companies could actually be higher, even with increased personal income tax. I wouldn't mind paying more taxes if my business would grow accordingly!
Eventually every economic expansion (tax reduction) will turn in higher inflation (all things being equal) but that's another story.
The truth is that the fundamentals of the economy are very weak, public debt, gdp growth, unemployment rate... and they need to be fixed. At the very least Obama acknowledges that those issues exist.

[The True Adonis]

why? putting someone else's interests over your own is about as un-american as you can get.

Obviously you know nothing of American History and its continual survival and productivity thereof.

Unless of course

You were just being facetious.

[Grape Ape]

So let me get straight GrapeApe, socialism or even borderline communism is the whats driving your vote?

Why in the hell should I be FORCED to give someone my hard earned money because they don't have the drive to make it themselves? Fuck that if you think your going to také 50% of income and if I go to sell my home také an additional 25% of that and so on and so on......screw Obama that POS!

You think I'm voting for Obama?  Have you not read anything I've posted in the Political forum?

[240 is Back]

What if your 300K taxes go from 30 to 40% but the value of your dollar goes up 250% under Obama?

The dollar lost 41% of its value under bush administration compared to teh Euro.

If you had a million bucks in 2001, it's worth 590,000 today.  (barring interest)

We owe 1.1 trillion to China, and 7.9 tril to other world banks.  The debt has doubled in the last 7 years, from the 80 years before that.

[The True Adonis]

"I wonder how many times you have to be hit on the head before you
find out who's hitting you? It's about time that the people of America
realized what the Republicans have been doing to them."
- Harry Truman

[240 is Back]

It's not that simple Rob. I don't believe everybody who makes more than 250K will benefit from a shitty economy and lower taxes on their personal income.

The thinking is that while there will be an initial hit to the economy as the rich folks all get the leashes put on them and low-rich like Joe at 350k lose their homes/re-adjust their lifestyles...

In the bigger picture, the dollar will strengthen as a result.  Remember that another 7 years of "dropping 41% of value" will put the US Dollar at its' death, there is no doubt about that.  RUS and MEX (95 and 98) declared bankruptcies and a lot of people lost everything.   it *can* happen when you borrow too much.

[tu_holmes]

The dollar lost 41% of its value under bush administration compared to teh Euro.

If you had a million bucks in 2001, it's worth 590,000 today.  (barring interest)

We owe 1.1 trillion to China, and 7.9 tril to other world banks.  The debt has doubled in the last 7 years, from the 80 years before that.

That, to me... is a huge deal.

My salary is not increasing at that rate, so I would dare say that it is hurting me in the long run.

[Tigerman]

The thinking is that while there will be an initial hit to the economy as the rich folks all get the leashes put on them and low-rich like Joe at 350k lose their homes/re-adjust their lifestyles...

In the bigger picture, the dollar will strengthen as a result.  Remember that another 7 years of "dropping 41% of value" will put the US Dollar at its' death, there is no doubt about that.  RUS and MEX (95 and 98) declared bankruptcies and a lot of people lost everything.   it *can* happen when you borrow too much.

I agree, and that's why any tax reduction should be accompanied by a reduction in public expenditure. There is so much waste right now, first of all, the war in Iraq.

[The True Adonis]

If you don`t like taxes, don`t pay them.  Civil Dissention is after all, the highest form of patriotism.

I personally think there should be a National Sales tax on all NEW items with the exception of food and housing.

Used items should also be tax free.

Changing the nation from a spending to a savings oriented nation will not only reward quality, but will promote correct conservatism as it is meant to be practiced.

This way, people will have total control of every dollar they make and will be in total control of their finance.

Everybody pays the same equally.

We can be as regressive and as progressive as we like with a National Sales Tax.  20 percent is the agreed upon amount by all Fair Tax/National Sales Tax economists.  

[Grape Ape]

A truly idiotic way to vote.  I love how Republicans always claim to put "country first" then vote in their own best personal interest.

How about YOU put country first for once and vote what will benefit the entire nation.

This is a strawman argument.

You're inferring that by casting a vote primarily based on the well being of my family, I couldn't care less about the well being of my country.  This is not the case.  I would not vote for a man if I felt he would leave the country in shambles, even if he policies saved me a few thousand dollars.

I believe that the country's economic condition will eventually change, as history has shown that it always does.  I don't believe that either man in this election, if elected President, will change that.

[240 is Back]

I agree, and that's why any tax reduction should be accompanied by a reduction in public expenditure. There is so much waste right now, first of all, the war in Iraq.

Obama says the spending will remain the same - BUT - he'll pull billions from war in iraq - make them use their own $80 billion surplus to fund the war - and use the $3 billion a week we're spending in Iraq to fund his programs here.

And he says instead of borrowing the $, we're going to tax the rich folks for it.

I'm not a big fan of some of his policies, but some, I am.  He'll make healthcare more afforable for my neice, whose dad is AWOL and whose mom (my sister) has MS.  He'll make my dad's pension/retirement worth more - pops took a bath on the 41% dorp in US dollar value in the last 7 years.  He's a lifetime republican, but he's pissed his portfolio (and my inheritance lol) is shrinking at such a rate.

Bottom line is that Obama will tax the rich.  If you're rich, you are not going to like it.  But, you made a KILLING under the Bush plan, and if you were smart with you $, you're in good shape now.

[The True Adonis]

This is a strawman argument.

You're inferring that by casting a vote primarily based on the well being of my family, I couldn't care less about the well being of my country.  This is not the case.  I would not vote for a man if I felt he would leave the country in shambles, even if he policies saved me a few thousand dollars.

I believe that the country's economic condition will eventually change, as history has shown that it always does.  I don't believe that either man in this election, if elected President, will change that.

The right man makes all the difference.

Look up the Panic of 1873 when the gold standard was cornered and massive fortunes were lost and the economy ravaged.  Look who was behind that little debacle.  October 4th, 1929 should be a reminder of what happens when you put a string of incompetents in power.  You seem to think history straightens itself out with no intervention.  That is ignorant.  You have a chance now to truly put country first as the contrast between Obama and Mccain are stark.  Clearly Obama`s policies in EVERY area are benefiting the country as a whole much more so than Mccain.  Please cite or show me where Mccain is ahead on one issue or policy that benefits the entire country more than Obama`s plans. ANY AREA.

I bet you can`t.

[shootfighter1]

One thing to consider is if you work for a small business, the McCain plan is much better.  All small business owners I know are campaigning against Obama because the tax policies will hurt them.  This, in turn, will affect their employees.  If employers are hit with more taxes, it will affect hiring, salaries and benefits offered.  I am in this position.  Obama is increasing the payroll tax which affects employment, in addition to the capital gains taxes (which affect all business owners and investors).  It doesn't sound so bad for large corporations who often use creative accounting to help survive this, but it will be very hard on small businesses.

Remember, America was built on small business and small businesses employ the majority of American workers.

[BM OUT]

Billy Mimnaugh, are you trying to imply that our vote always comes down to who we think is the least shitty person, not the best qualified?

Hmmm,Obama with his vast history of "community organising" doesnt strike me as either a good person or qualified to run anything.Biden has proven to be the most incompatant human being serving in the US senate time and again.Neither guy is honorable,neither qualified,neither worth a crap.

However,most of the time we vote on who we like.Thats why goofs like Gore,Kerry,Dukakis loose,they are not liked.They are viewed as loosers.

[240 is Back]

One thing to consider is if you work for a small business, the McCain plan is much better.  All small business owners I know are campaigning against Obama because the tax policies will hurt them.  This, in turn, will affect their employees.  If employers are hit with more taxes, it will affect hiring, salaries and benefits offered.  I am in this position.  Obama is increasing the payroll tax which affects employment, in addition to the capital gains taxes (which affect all business owners and investors).  It doesn't sound so bad for large corporations who often use creative accounting to help survive this, but it will be very hard on small businesses.

Remember, America was built on small business and small businesses employ the majority of American workers.

at the same time, what happens to your business and employees if the dollar declines by another 41% in the next 7 years?  Will you be open at all?

Obama admits year 1 of his plan will be a slowed economy and some companies will suffer.  But he feels the return in the dollar strength will leave you in a better spot in the long run. 

If your dollar was suddenly back at its 2001 level (with 41% greater value), you'd be grinning ear to ear right now, right?