Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: chainsaw on September 30, 2008, 09:08:43 AM
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All are bullshit except protein,
but I got some "Feel Good Pills" and
My wife got some "Energy Gum".
Both which did nothing.
What other ones did you guys see.
How do these Co's make money?
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These companies make money by making bullshit products and marketing the shit out of them.Perfect example Creatine Ethyl Ester, there is no such chemical.Companies like Muscle Tech, take a product like Cell Tech which cost $4 a bottle to make, and market the hell out of it.Then charge retail $59 for it so people thinks its really good.All Cell Tech is Dextrose, (sugar)Chinese Creatine ($4.50 per Kilo)and some Alpha Lapoic Acid.You are paying for pretty packaging and marketing my friend.
The good news there are alot of good companies out there that still make good products, but you dont hear alot from them.
Why because we put the money into the product, and raw materials, instead of spending all our money marketing junk.
Good companies you can trust, Bio-Plex, AST Sports Science,Gaspari Nutrition,Kre-Alkalyn,Beverly International,Extreme Labs,these are just a few, there are many more but I cant think of them right now.
The bottom line is there are alot of companies that still take pride in what they make.Usually if a company is marketing themselves very heavily, that means that the money has to come from somewhere.The sad truth is the consumer is the one who suffers from this travesty.Real supplements cost alot of $$$$$ to make because raw materials, shipping and packing can be expensive.
To be honest with you Muscletech makes 400--800% mark up on there products.On our protein we make probably 30-35% big difference ??????? You bet.Thats why we are not Muscle Tech, because companies like myself have a conscience, money is not my god and never will be.Stick with reputable companies, and you will get reputable products, bottom line.
If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.god bless.....
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"bullshit supplements" is redundant
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Supplements that really work,L-Glutamine, Waxey Maize Starch ( if it is from Potato not Corn),BCAAS, Kre-Alklayn,Milk Isolate, Whey Isolate, 80% Whey Protein Concenentrates, Ephedra,Amino Acids, and Egg Protein ECA stacks.
There is alot more good supplements, but this is just off of the top of my head.They are all tried and true.
No fancy names.If a product has an ingredient like Creatine Ethy Ester Beta Alanine , Sodium Creatine Phosphate or L- Glutamine Ethyl Ester, throw it in the trash!!!!!!!!!.These are made up chemicals.They dont exist !!!!!!!
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it seems like a lot of people have been complaining of the lack of "free stuffs' this year at the Olympia Expo. I heard EAS wasn't there. they're the King of all booths. I need some info on what's going on?
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l-glutamine does nothing for a bodybuilder besides make his gut nice and healthy...
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all supplements are bullshit. just eat a good diet and you're good to go. no one has ever convinced me that even protein powder is bioavailable after they bake and cook the shit out of it.
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I got some samples of a energy drink called powerline...And that shit really works well for energy and focus...
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hey Get whats your company?
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This gum feels like Deca, honey.
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These companies make money by making bullshit products and marketing the shit out of them.Perfect example Creatine Ethyl Ester, there is no such chemical.Companies like Muscle Tech, take a product like Cell Tech which cost $4 a bottle to make, and market the hell out of it.Then charge retail $59 for it so people thinks its really good.All Cell Tech is Dextrose, (sugar)Chinese Creatine ($4.50 per Kilo)and some Alpha Lapoic Acid.You are paying for pretty packaging and marketing my friend.
The good news there are alot of good companies out there that still make good products, but you dont hear alot from them.
Why because we put the money into the product, and raw materials, instead of spending all our money marketing junk.
Good companies you can trust, Bio-Plex, AST Sports Science,Gaspari Nutrition,Kre-Alkalyn,Beverly International,Extreme Labs,these are just a few, there are many more but I cant think of them right now.
The bottom line is there are alot of companies that still take pride in what they make.Usually if a company is marketing themselves very heavily, that means that the money has to come from somewhere.The sad truth is the consumer is the one who suffers from this travesty.Real supplements cost alot of $$$$$ to make because raw materials, shipping and packing can be expensive.
To be honest with you Muscletech makes 400--800% mark up on there products.On our protein we make probably 30-35% big difference ??????? You bet.Thats why we are not Muscle Tech, because companies like myself have a conscience, money is not my god and never will be.Stick with reputable companies, and you will get reputable products, bottom line.
If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.god bless.....
What company do you own ?
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what about bbing.com's awards right before the winners were announced at the Olympia?
Muscle Builder Of The Year - BSN NO-Xplode
Fat Loss Product Of The Year - Nutrex Lipo 6
New Product Of The Year - MuscleTech Anabolic Halo
Energy Supplement Of The Year - BSN Atro-Phex
no scientific evidence for any of these
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These companies make money by making bullshit products and marketing the shit out of them.Perfect example Creatine Ethyl Ester, there is no such chemical.Companies like Muscle Tech, take a product like Cell Tech which cost $4 a bottle to make, and market the hell out of it.Then charge retail $59 for it so people thinks its really good.All Cell Tech is Dextrose, (sugar)Chinese Creatine ($4.50 per Kilo)and some Alpha Lapoic Acid.You are paying for pretty packaging and marketing my friend.
The good news there are alot of good companies out there that still make good products, but you dont hear alot from them.
Why because we put the money into the product, and raw materials, instead of spending all our money marketing junk.
Good companies you can trust, Bio-Plex, AST Sports Science,Gaspari Nutrition,Kre-Alkalyn,Beverly International,Extreme Labs,these are just a few, there are many more but I cant think of them right now.
The bottom line is there are alot of companies that still take pride in what they make.Usually if a company is marketing themselves very heavily, that means that the money has to come from somewhere.The sad truth is the consumer is the one who suffers from this travesty.Real supplements cost alot of $$$$$ to make because raw materials, shipping and packing can be expensive.
To be honest with you Muscletech makes 400--800% mark up on there products.On our protein we make probably 30-35% big difference ??????? You bet.Thats why we are not Muscle Tech, because companies like myself have a conscience, money is not my god and never will be.Stick with reputable companies, and you will get reputable products, bottom line.
If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.god bless.....
Bro i used extreme labs " nitro xteme 92 " protein powder, and it gave me the worst diarrhea ive ever had in my life. It took me a good 4-5 days for my stomach to recover after taking that stuff.
Whats up with that?? I think the proteins are poor quality and its packed with lactose. Am i correct?
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what about bbing.com's awards right before the winners were announced at the Olympia?
Muscle Builder Of The Year - BSN NO-Xplode
Fat Loss Product Of The Year - Nutrex Lipo 6
New Product Of The Year - MuscleTech Anabolic Halo
Energy Supplement Of The Year - BSN Atro-Phex
no scientific evidence for any of these
Yes there is. Not for the products themselves, but behind individual ingredients on those products.
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Yes there is. Not for the products themselves, but behind individual ingredients on those products.
please provide it. (references to peer reviewed scientific journals are best)
here is one for you: http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=117
then there was the Society of Sports Nutrition Conference in Las Vegas in 2004. the abstracts are no longer on-line, but four different poster sessions showed NO2 supplements had no significant muscle building properties.
and if all these supplements work, why isn't the average guy at the gym any bigger than what they were 20 years ago?
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it seems like a lot of people have been complaining of the lack of "free stuffs' this year at the Olympia Expo. I heard EAS wasn't there. they're the King of all booths. I need some info on what's going on?
Yeah, the samples of protein bars was a small piece thats been sitting out all day with everyones fingers in it.
Not whole bars. I got some good protein paks though, but alot of other NO2 enhancers and bullshit I would never put in my body.
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please provide it.
hahah..i don't sell supplements and i don't care if you buy them. so I'm not going to dig up any information - too lazy.
but for example..
lipo 6 - caffeine, synephrine, yohimbine hcl, fatty acids... all have science behind why they help burn fat
anabolic halo - i believe protein + carbs + extra leucine and phenylalanine ?? all that has science to support recovery when taken post workout
no explode - arginine, caffeine, some amino acids... all good for energy and NO production (better pumps and blood flow)
atro phex - i know for one its going to have caffeine... which is good..I'm not familiar at all with the product though
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Bro i used extreme labs " nitro xteme 92 " protein powder, and it gave me the worst diarrhea ive ever had in my life. It took me a good 4-5 days for my stomach to recover after taking that stuff.
Whats up with that?? I think the proteins are poor quality and its packed with lactose. Am i correct?
extreme labs is basically shit and I don't know how it even got in the same sentence as something like Gaspari.
GetitonwithgUYz owns that company I believe. He also claims to have invented DHEA. He is just another schmoe in the industry.
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atro phex - i know for one its going to have caffeine... which is good..
$39 for caffeine. might as well just go to Starbucks
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These companies make money by making bullshit products and marketing the shit out of them.Perfect example Creatine Ethyl Ester, there is no such chemical.Companies like Muscle Tech, take a product like Cell Tech which cost $4 a bottle to make, and market the hell out of it.Then charge retail $59 for it so people thinks its really good.All Cell Tech is Dextrose, (sugar)Chinese Creatine ($4.50 per Kilo)and some Alpha Lapoic Acid.You are paying for pretty packaging and marketing my friend.
The good news there are alot of good companies out there that still make good products, but you dont hear alot from them.
Why because we put the money into the product, and raw materials, instead of spending all our money marketing junk.
Good companies you can trust, Bio-Plex, AST Sports Science,Gaspari Nutrition,Kre-Alkalyn,Beverly International,Extreme Labs,these are just a few, there are many more but I cant think of them right now.
The bottom line is there are alot of companies that still take pride in what they make.Usually if a company is marketing themselves very heavily, that means that the money has to come from somewhere.The sad truth is the consumer is the one who suffers from this travesty.Real supplements cost alot of $$$$$ to make because raw materials, shipping and packing can be expensive.
To be honest with you Muscletech makes 400--800% mark up on there products.On our protein we make probably 30-35% big difference ??????? You bet.Thats why we are not Muscle Tech, because companies like myself have a conscience, money is not my god and never will be.Stick with reputable companies, and you will get reputable products, bottom line.
If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.god bless.....
creatine ethyl esther is made in china by dnp. look for it.
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$39 for caffeine. might as well just go to Starbucks
HAH yes I agree, I buy bulk caffiene myself.. I think its quite beneficial. But I dont know, there could be alot more to that product than just caffeine.
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Temper another "hater on this board, who talks all kinds of trash, yet does not post pics of himself.
Flexingtonsteel,our Nitro 92 is honestly lactose free, we even have independent lab assays to prove our product is truly 92% Whey protein Isolate, and makes label claim.You can ship the bottle of protein back to us for a free exchange, for another bottle, or product of your choice.We stand behind our products 100%.Please let me know how we can make you satisfied as a customer.Thank you ...god bless....
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creatine ethyl esther is made in china by dnp. look for it.
Yes I know they claim it is Creatine Ethly Ester, but Assay it and you will find out it is just plain Creatine Monohydrate with a fancy name.
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Temper another "hater on this board, who talks all kinds of trash, yet does not post pics of himself.
Flexingtonsteel,our Nitro 92 is honestly lactose free, we even have independent lab assays to prove our product is truly 92% Whey protein Isolate, and makes label claim.You can ship the bottle of protein back to us for a free exchange, for another bottle, or product of your choice.We stand behind our products 100%.Please let me know how we can make you satisfied as a customer.Thank you ...god bless....
well its cool, i shipped it back to bodybuilding.com........ .but honestly it left a bad taste in my mouth about your products....
I bought it because it was an inexpensive isolate, but i was extremely dissapointed.
Im not trying to bash u on the boards or anything, but just letting people know my experience with your product.
And maybe if u sent me your extreme five stage anabolic stack id be happy :)
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HAH yes I agree, I buy bulk caffiene myself.. I think its quite beneficial. But I dont know, there could be alot more to that product than just caffeine.
but you don't know. and you're not willing to do the research to find out. despite lots of evidence that the supplement industry in the US has been selling worthless supplements for 40+ years, you're willing to fork over hundreds of dollars and put unknown chemicals into your body with the hope that this one is not a scam.
you can buy anabolic steroids over the counter in Mexico. but you can't buy most of these supplements, because the Mexican government requires proof that they've been tested for safety and effectiveness.
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but you don't know. and you're not willing to do the research to find out. despite lots of evidence that the supplement industry in the US has been selling worthless supplements for 40+ years, you're willing to fork over hundreds of dollars and put unknown chemicals into your body with the hope that this one is not a scam.
you can buy anabolic steroids over the counter in Mexico. but you can't buy most of these supplements, because the Mexican government requires proof that they've been tested for safety and effectiveness.
Whoa hold on Bud. Never said any of that. Dont go putting words in my mouth.
Simply - alot of these supplements are based on ingredients that do have science to support that they do achieve SOMETHING.
Now, if a product like lipo 6, when combined with a good diet and exercise program, doesnt help you lose fat faster? Its not my fault you have shit genetics :D JK.
Kidding aside, dont look for drug-like effects from a supplement. They are just that - a supplement. And NONE of them will provide a significant impact. You want that you need a drug or hormone.
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These companies make money by making bullshit products and marketing the shit out of them.Perfect example Creatine Ethyl Ester, there is no such chemical.Companies like Muscle Tech, take a product like Cell Tech which cost $4 a bottle to make, and market the hell out of it.Then charge retail $59 for it so people thinks its really good.All Cell Tech is Dextrose, (sugar)Chinese Creatine ($4.50 per Kilo)and some Alpha Lapoic Acid.You are paying for pretty packaging and marketing my friend.
The good news there are alot of good companies out there that still make good products, but you dont hear alot from them.
Why because we put the money into the product, and raw materials, instead of spending all our money marketing junk.
Good companies you can trust, Bio-Plex, AST Sports Science,Gaspari Nutrition,Kre-Alkalyn,Beverly International,Extreme Labs,these are just a few, there are many more but I cant think of them right now.
The bottom line is there are alot of companies that still take pride in what they make.Usually if a company is marketing themselves very heavily, that means that the money has to come from somewhere.The sad truth is the consumer is the one who suffers from this travesty.Real supplements cost alot of $$$$$ to make because raw materials, shipping and packing can be expensive.
To be honest with you Muscletech makes 400--800% mark up on there products.On our protein we make probably 30-35% big difference ??????? You bet.Thats why we are not Muscle Tech, because companies like myself have a conscience, money is not my god and never will be.Stick with reputable companies, and you will get reputable products, bottom line.
If it sounds to good to be true it probably is.god bless.....
If you own your own supplement company, then you know that MuscleTech wasn't always the juggernaut it has become today. Remember that MuscleTech started with three supplements, the flagship of which was an ephedra/ma-huang-based fat-burner (Hydroxycut). Then CELL-TECH came along, followed by the prohormones (Anotesten and Nortesten). Soon after, NITRO-TECH hit the scene. Hydroxycut was MuscleTech's big seller. But, when the ephedra ban started looming (with the prohormone ban right behind it), MuscleTech shifted almost ALL of its marketing emphasis to CELL-TECH and NITRO-TECH.
How do you think MuscleTech became as large as it is now? It's because they make good products. And, when you compare MuscleTech's wares to their respective counterparts from other companies, the prices are pretty much the same.
Nano Vapor costs about as much as NO-XPLODE does. Same applies with NITRO-TECH and ON's 100% Whey Gold Standard. CELL-TECH and Size-On both retail for around $80 (unless there are promos for those products or GNC marks them down for clearance).
My only issue with MuscleTech's products have been price and taste. The price is mitigated, when GNC (or Vitamin Shoppe) marks them down for clearance. Taste is a different issue. I prefer ON 100% Whey Gold Standard to NITRO-TECH, because the latter tastes better; while, certain flavors of NITRO-TECH give me a headache.
I've used Size-On, Vassive-CE and CELL-TECH creatine products and they work and taste good (except for Orange-Flavored CELL-TECH....YUCK!!!)
NO-XPLODE, Vassive NO, SuperPump250 and Nano Vapor are great NO products. I give the edge to Nano Vapor, as it's the only one you can take immediately (instead of 30-45 minutes) before your workouts. And, you get the tinglies in your hands and forehead.
To me, MuscleTech is just like any other supplement company. Some of their products are better than those counterparts of their competitors and vice versa.
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what about bbing.com's awards right before the winners were announced at the Olympia?
Muscle Builder Of The Year - BSN NO-Xplode
Fat Loss Product Of The Year - Nutrex Lipo 6
New Product Of The Year - MuscleTech Anabolic Halo
Energy Supplement Of The Year - BSN Atro-Phex
no scientific evidence for any of these
Interesting list of Ultrabullshit supplements... ;)
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NO-XPLODE, Vassive NO, SuperPump250 and Nano Vapor are great NO products. I give the edge to Nano Vapor, as it's the only one you can take immediately (instead of 30-45 minutes) before your workouts. And, you get the tinglies in your hands and forehead.
wow, tingliness. too bad there is no correlation between tingliness or a pump (probably both caused by niacin) and building muscle.
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Flexington, if you can prove to me that you did infact buy our Nitro 92, even though you returned it, I will send you out a free bottle of ECA, our Blade Hardcore with a free t-shirt .Just for your trouble.
Our customer satisfaction rate is a strong 99.6 % we hardly ever get returns, and if we do, we make sure we take care of the customer.We never forgot that the simple fact that the customer is the reason why we are in buisness, and without them we wouldnt be in buissness.
Thank you again for your buissness...
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buy supplements. support the sport
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Yes I know they claim it is Creatine Ethly Ester, but Assay it and you will find out it is just plain Creatine Monohydrate with a fancy name.
From Wikipedia:
"Creatine ethyl ester, also known as creatine ester, cre-ester and CEE, is a substance sold as an aid for athletic performance and for muscle development in bodybuilding. It is an ethyl ester derivative of creatine, from which it is made. In the body, CEE is converted back into creatine. The ethyl ester is said to have a much better absorption rate and a longer half-life in the body than regular creatine monohydrate, because it is slightly more lipophilic. However, these claims have not yet been conclusively proven by independent research, and in fact a study presented at the 4th International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) annual meeting demonstrated that that the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine.[1] [2] As a supplement, the compound was developed, patented and licensed through UNeMed, the technology transfer entity of the University of Nebraska Medical Center, and is sold under numerous brand names."
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I have never seen John "GetItOnNy" spam or even promote his supplement company
(hell if i owned a "supp" company id have the website as my signature,and be spaming as much as would be allowed)
from what i see hes a stand up guy and reputable (seems to know his shit as well)
supplements are just that............suppleme ntal to food (nothing can take the place of good wholesome food!)
but they can help! (for their convenience and for me to boost protein intake/i don't want to cook be eating 7-8 whole food meals every day)
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buy supplements that don't suck. support the sport
Fixed.
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Quality supplements= www.lef.org
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supplements that don't suck:
protein - I buy mine from trueprotein.com
multivitamin - I like Twinlabs DualTab
fish oil capsules - Trader Joe's
bottles of oil - flaxseed and blends like Udo's choice
psyllium - to add some fiber to all that protein - Trader Joe's
that's it, unless you're doing steroids, then you might need something like 6-oxo
the average guy at the gym buying hundreds of dollars of supplements a month is no bigger than the average guy from 20 years ago. want to get more results for your money? join a better gym.
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supplements that don't suck:
protein - I buy mine from trueprotein.com
multivitamin - I like Twinlabs DualTab
fish oil capsules - Trader Joe's
bottles of oil - flaxseed and blends like Udo's choice
psyllium - to add some fiber to all that protein - Trader Joe's
that's it, unless you're doing steroids, then you might need something like 6-oxo
the average guy at the gym buying hundreds of dollars of supplements a month is no bigger than the average guy from 20 years ago. want to get more results for your money? join a better gym.
BCAA's are an awesome supplement as well as creatine.
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BCAA's are an awesome supplement as well as creatine.
references in scientific journals that they build muscle, please. not that they give you a pump, make you hold water, give you energy, etc. but that they build muscle.
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references in scientific journals that they build muscle, please. not that they give you a pump, make you hold water, give you energy, etc. but that they build muscle.
Tim youre going to get raped here mate.
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to be honest I work in the supplement industry im gonna let you guys on an insider secret, "you dont need anything not even multi vitamins" the extra stuff you guys take that think that work is what supplements keep turning the wheel they let you think you need it to get big, but nothing actually works. To be honest I can train someone with just food with 3 meals a day and get him to be 200lbs,,10% BF the lowest possible at 5'10" he will be very large more than normal with 17inch arms lean. I know one nitric oxide so called supplement I support,,all they put in there is 2000mg of vitamin C as main ingredient it works wonders to make people think they are gettting a super pump when in reality its in their head they are working out harder than before.
So take it from other folks dont need supplements at all,,you will see the results if you just go in the gym with extra energy like caffeeine,, and get good result. you cant tell guys though,,,,that you need dont need supplements cause its in head all the time to take it there are guys over at bbing.com who buy 500 dollars/month,,supplements expecting 20lbs of raw muscle,,,I,,,know guys who buy steroid stacks less than that get more Real Gains not water gain and fat,,,,
Ill even ask resident expert GH15 and you watch he respond,,,
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No shit, Sherlock.
Congatulations, you've invented the wheel! ::)
lolz
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Supplements that really work,L-Glutamine, Waxey Maize Starch ( if it is from Potato not Corn),BCAAS, Kre-Alklayn,Milk Isolate, Whey Isolate, 80% Whey Protein Concenentrates, Ephedra,Amino Acids, and Egg Protein ECA stacks.
There is alot more good supplements, but this is just off of the top of my head.They are all tried and true.
No fancy names.If a product has an ingredient like Creatine Ethy Ester Beta Alanine , Sodium Creatine Phosphate or L- Glutamine Ethyl Ester, throw it in the trash!!!!!!!!!.These are made up chemicals.They dont exist !!!!!!!
you obviously know nothing about supplementation, creatine ethyl ester is by far the best creatine, beta alanine is a solid product with scientific evidence. However, glutamine is utter garbage supported by science which shows it is not beneficial for oral consumption. Perhaps you should do more reading, beta alanine is a amino acid derivative, ya made up ::)
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you obviously know nothing about supplementation, creatine ethyl ester is by far the best creatine, beta alanine is a solid product with scientific evidence. However, glutamine is utter garbage supported by science which shows it is not beneficial for oral consumption. Perhaps you should do more reading, beta alanine is a amino acid derivative, ya made up ::)
Yeah, because all the supps you can point to do anything other than fuck all, that they are all obviously worth buying.
Listen, piss off back to the supps board and wait for Candi to return, no one else give two fucks.
Fucking snake oil cunt
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Yeah, because all the supps you can point to do anything other than fuck all, that they are all obviously worth buying.
Listen, piss off back to the supps board and wait for Candi to return, no one else give two fucks.
Fucking snake oil cunt
i dont sell shit moron, i attend school somethign you should be doing.
your argument is weaker then stephen hawkings boner.
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i dont sell shit moron, i attend school somethign you should be doing.
your argument is weaker then stephen hawkings boner.
How long have you been waiting to unleash that dimwitted gem?
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"bullshit supplements" is redundant
Word. The few that did work like the good old original Ripped Fuel, they stopped making because assholes would down 4 pills at a time, go play ball in 95 degree weather and stroke out! >:(
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Word. The few that did work like the good old original Ripped Fuel, they stopped making because assholes would down 4 pills at a time, go play ball in 95 degree weather and stroke out! >:(
That's basically what happened to that minor-league baseball player from the Orioles, about 5 years ago. He was overweight, malnourished, dehydrated and got put on a crash diet to make weight. He was using Xenadrine, at the time, taking WAY more than the recommended dose. And, he was training in 100+ degree weather. When he keeled over and died, that was the proverbial back-breaking straw for ephedra/Ma Huang based fat-burners.
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i dont sell shit moron, i attend school somethign you should be doing.
your argument is weaker then stephen hawkings boner.
Bon mot: 5/10
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BCAA's are an awesome supplement as well as creatine.
::)
i hope this was a joke.
yes bcaa's are an awesome product, and you get them free everytime you eat protein.
why pay for them seperately ???
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::)
i hope this was a joke.
yes bcaa's are an awesome product, and you get them free everytime you eat protein.
why pay for them seperately ???
amino acid competition nullifies there individual effects and metabolism. Eating them seperately has seperate effects. How is d-phenyalanine a analgesic and anti depressant when taken seperately but not in the form of whole protien? Your body utilizes them differently, bcaas also have a completely seperate metabolism from other aminos.
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How long have you been waiting to unleash that dimwitted gem?
did you just get home from work to find chocolate gizz crying, and you had to stand up for your lover?
why pick up for another annonymous man on the internet? ::)
nice comeback also, but if i wanted my cumback id scrap it off your moms teeth.
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did you just get home from work to find chocolate gizz crying, and you had to stand up for your lover?
why pick up for another annonymous man on the internet? ::)
nice comeback also, but if i wanted my cumback id scrap it off your moms teeth.
He merely highlighted your weak ability to produce a funny retort, as did I.
Stick to the facts.
3/10
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amino acid competition nullifies there individual effects and metabolism. Eating them seperately has seperate effects. How is d-phenyalanine a analgesic and anti depressant when taken seperately but not in the form of whole protien? Your body utilizes them differently, bcaas also have a completely seperate metabolism from other aminos.
bullshit, protein is protein.
you can prove me wrong with studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects.
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bullshit, protein is protein.
you can prove me wrong with studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects.
protein is protien, i didnt say it wasnt, obviously you have a comprehension problem.
different amino acids exert different effects when taken seperately. Leucine interferes with tryptophans conversion for example, hence the lack of fatigue related to serotonergic sides while taking bcaas when training.
do you really want me to post studies showing how amino acids compete for absorption, and that when taken alone have unique effects? I certainly can do that, if i do, delete you account, one less idiot.
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He merely highlighted your weak ability to produce a funny retort, as did I.
Stick to the facts.
3/10
you guys make a cute couple.
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you guys make a cute couple.
Hmmm, a none too funny picture accompanied [again] by a none to funny bon mot.
I'll give you this much, you have nonchalantly achieved the tri-fecta of bland retorts.
Dullard.
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Usmokepole owning alot of minds here in this thread. ;D
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Hmmm, a none too funny picture accompanied [again] by a none to funny bon mot.
I'll give you this much, you have nonchalantly achieved the tri-fecta of bland retorts.
Dullard.
bwhahahhahahhaha jesus you are lame as shit, is that the best you can come up with. You remind me of bezerkfury and some of the other geeks i destroyed on the V a while back, piggy backing off others posts and saying nothing original.
hahhahahahaa I bet your the type of fag that gives head for bus money then decides to walk home.
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bwhahahhahahhaha jesus you are lame as shit, is that the best you can come up with. You remind me of bezerkfury and some of the other geeks i destroyed on the V a while back, piggy backing off others posts and saying nothing original.
hahhahahahaa I bet your the type of fag that gives head for bus money then decides to walk home.
I bet Larry David is shitting himself.
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bullshit, protein is protein.
you can prove me wrong with studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects.
here is some basic biochemistry, i wont charge for two questions.
http://themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/amino-acid-metabolism.html
note some of the different pathways and the ATP required. Ever wonder why tyrosine is in fat loss supps and not whole protein? perhaps is has to due with its metabolism involving TSH and t3/t4 with the numbers denoting tyrosine molecules.
Its actually common knowledge that amino acids compete for substrates, namely, atp,nadh, fadh etc...
anything else? I bet i have you sweating more then a blind lesbian in a tuna factory. :D
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I bet Larry David is shitting himself.
::)
say something clever and i will respond.
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Protein is not protein people!!!!!!.IF that was the case a 35% Whey protein Concentrate would be just as good as a 92% Whey protein Isolate.I personally wont use or blend asny protein that is less then 80% pure protein because anything less has Lactose and impurities.How to tell what percentage your protein ,simple just take the serving size and divide it by the amount of protein per serving.
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Protein is not protein people!!!!!!.IF that was the case a 35% Whey protein Concentrate would be just as good as a 92% Whey protein Isolate.I personally wont use or blend asny protein that is less then 80% pure protein because anything less has Lactose and impurities.How to tell what percentage your protein ,simple just take the serving size and divide it by the amount of protein per serving.
for sake of argument you are correct, i agree i was merely talking about the macronutrient. The same argument goes for carbs and fats, being different.
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Flexington, if you can prove to me that you did infact buy our Nitro 92, even though you returned it, I will send you out a free bottle of ECA, our Blade Hardcore with a free t-shirt .Just for your trouble.
Our customer satisfaction rate is a strong 99.6 % we hardly ever get returns, and if we do, we make sure we take care of the customer.We never forgot that the simple fact that the customer is the reason why we are in buisness, and without them we wouldnt be in buissness.
Thank you again for your buissness...
bro, why would i lie about getting the runs from ur product.
I ordered it last year off of bodybuilding.com
I dont want any free supps, there are only about 3 or 4 supps that i really do take, so i was only joking ( if u would have sent it to me, i would have sold it to some teenagers at the gym lol )
so yea, i dont feel like finding the email confirmation, but ur protein gave me the splatter shits! :)
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I take Vitamin C, E, B-Complex, Multi, and Fish Oil.
I swear the B-Complex started giving me a tremendous increase of energy, but it went away after a while.
I used to take protein, but I stopped.
Someone told me powders are not a complete protein, so they won't really help building muscle.
I don't know what the final verdict is here; I haven't studied nutrition.
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Someone told me powders are not a complete protein, so they won't really help building muscle.
I don't know what the final verdict is here; I haven't studied nutrition.
Obviously. Whoever told you that is a fucking retard.
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protein is protien, i didnt say it wasnt, obviously you have a comprehension problem.
different amino acids exert different effects when taken seperately. Leucine interferes with tryptophans conversion for example, hence the lack of fatigue related to serotonergic sides while taking bcaas when training.
do you really want me to post studies showing how amino acids compete for absorption, and that when taken alone have unique effects? I certainly can do that, if i do, delete you account, one less idiot.
clearly you are the one with the comprehention problem.
i asked you for studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects.
you try to change the subject and act smart by telling me to read about animo acid metabolism ::)
you have owned yourself you dumb cvnt.
once again, for your simpleton mind - if you can show me studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects i will admit you have owned me publically on this forum, and say sorry.
if not disappear and never have the cheek to address me again.
i am just angry that i missed this for so long and allowed your feeble ego to grow for a few days by believing you have owned me in any way shape or form. ::)
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clearly you are the one with the comprehention problem.
i asked you for studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects.
you try to change the subject and act smart by telling me to read about animo acid metabolism ::)
you have owned yourself you dumb ####.
once again, for your simpleton mind - if you can show me studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects i will admit you have owned me publically on this forum, and say sorry.
if not disappear and never have the cheek to address me again.
i am just angry that i missed this for so long and allowed your feeble ego to grow for a few days by believing you have owned me in any way shape or form. ::)
sure you fucktard, i can do that quite easily. LOL, first a simple review. This is simply shit i had on my hard-drive, i didnt even have to re search pubmed LOL.
Med Hypotheses. 2000 Oct;55(4):283-8. Links
DL-phenylalanine markedly potentiates opiate analgesia - an example of nutrient/pharmaceutical up-regulation of the endogenous analgesia system.Russell AL, McCarty MF.
Brampton Pain Clinic, Bramalea, Ontario, Canada.
In the author's clinical experience, concurrent treatment with DL-phenylalanine (DLPA) often appears to potentiate pain relief and also ease depression in patients receiving opiates for chronic non-malignant pain. An analysis of this phenomenon suggests that it may be mediated, at least in part, by up-regulation of the 'endogenous analgesia system' (EAS), a neural pathway that projects caudally from medullary nuclei to the dorsal horn of the spinal column; when stimulated by chronic pain or therapeutic measures such as opiates or acupuncture, the EAS suppresses activation of second-order pain-receptive neurons in the dorsal horn, and thereby alleviates pain. Since serotonin and enkephalins are key neurotransmitters in the EAS, it is reasonable to predict that measures which promote serotonin activity (such as 5-hydroxytryptophan and serotonin-reuptake inhibitors) as well as enkephalin activity (such as D-phenylalanine, an enkephalinase inhibitor) should potentiate EAS-mediated analgesia - a view consistent with much previous medical research. Comprehensive support of the EAS with well-tolerated nutrients and pharmaceuticals may amplify the analgesic efficacy of chronic opiate therapy, while enabling dosage reductions that minimize opiate side-effects. Analogously, this approach may complement the efficacy of acupuncture and other analgesic measures that activate the EAS. Copyright 2000 Harcourt Publishers Ltd.
VERSUS A TRICYCLIC ANTI-DEPRESSANT
1: Arch Psychiatr Nervenkr. 1979 Jul 4;227(1):49-58.Links
DL-phenylalanine versus imipramine: a double-blind controlled study.Beckmann H, Athen D, Olteanu M, Zimmer R.
In a double-blind study, DL-phenylalanine (150--200 mg/24 h) or imipramine (150--200 mg/24 h) was administered to 40 depressed patients (20 patients in each group) for 30 days. Diagnoses were established according to the International Classification of Disease (ICD). The AMP system, the Hamilton Depression Scale and the Bf-S self rating questionnaire (von Zerssen et al., 1974) were used to document psychopathological, neurologic, and somatic changes. Twenty-seven patients (14 on imipramine, 13 on phenylalanine) completed the 30-day trial. No statistical difference could be found between these two drug treatment groups (Student's t-test) using the Hamilton Depression Scale and the Bf-S self rating questionnaire. Ratings for anxiety were significantly lower in the imipramine group on days 10 and 20, but not on day 30; in addition, sleep disturbances were more influenced by imipramine on days 1, 5, and 10, but not on days 20 and 30. Separate analysis of psychopathological syndromes as somatic depressive syndrome and retarded depressive syndrome did not show a group difference (0.05 level of significance using a two-way analysis of variance). It is concluded that DL-phenylalanine might have substantial antidepresant properties. However, certain methodological considerations still warrant a careful interpretation.
1: J Neural Transm. 1977;41(2-3):123-34. Links
Dl-phenylalanine in depressed patients: an open study.Beckmann H, Strauss MA, Ludolph E.
In an open study dl-phenylalanine in doses from 75-200 mg/day was administered to 20 depressed patients for 20 days. Patients were classified according to the International Classification of Diseases (ICD). The AMP system, the Hamilton depression scale and the von Zerssen self rating questionnaire were used for documentation of psychopathological, neurologic and somatic changes. In addition a global clinical impression was agreed upon by experienced psychiatrists. At the end of the trial 12 patients (8 with complete, 4 with good response) could be discharged without any further treatment. 4 patients with partially untypical depressions experienced mild to moderate responses, whereas 4 patients did not respond at all to the phenylalanine administration. Depressive "core symptoms" as depressed mood, retardation and/or agitation were preferentially, anxiety and sleep disturbances moderately and hypochondriasis and compulsiveness were not influenced. It is concluded that dl-phenylalanine might have substantial antidepressant properties and that further more controlled investigations are warranted.
1: Arzneimittelforschung. 1978;28(8):1283-4.Links
[DL-phenylalanine as an antidepressant. Open study (author's transl)][Article in German]
Beckmann H, Ludolph E.
In an open study dl-phenylalanine in doses from 75--200 mg/day was administered to 20 depressed patients for 20 days. At the end of the trial 12 patients (8 with complete, 4 with good response) could be discharged without any further treatment. 4 patients with partially untypical depressions experienced mild to moderate responses, whereas 4 patients did not respond at all to the phenylalanine administration. Depressive "core symptoms" as depressed mood, retardation and/or agitation were preferentially, anxiety and sleep disturbances moderately and hypochondriasis and compulsiveness were not influenced. It is concluded that dl-phenylalanine might have substantial antidepressant properties and that further controlled investigations are justified.
Heres an article explaining a study in laymans terms with some stats i have
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4730007/description.html
"D-phenylalanine, DL-phenylalanine, D-leucine, DL-leucine and hydrocinnamic
acid have been found to possess analgesic and anti-inflammatory activity.
Their analgesic activity is significantly enhanced or potentiated by the
co-administration of a prostaglandin synthetase inhibitor selected from
the group consisting of aspirin or other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory,
anti-pyretic agents such as ibuprofen and the like. See U.S. Pat. No.
4,439,452, issued Mar. 27, 1984 and commonly assigned, copending
applications U.S. Ser. No. 657,681 filed Oct. 4, 1984 and U.S. Ser. No.
657,732, filed Oct. 4, 1984."
"As can be seen from the above data, acetaminophen and D-phenylalanine,
L-phenylalanine and hydrocinnamic acid each exhibit some analgesic
activity at the very low doses used, coadministration of acetaminophen
with either D-phenylalanine, D-leucine or hydrocinnamic acid produced a
significant, synergistic increase in analgesia."
Make a thread saying you are a moron and have been pwnd by me, at least be a man and live up to your statement and do this. thank you
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also,you dont have to disappear just publicly admit you where pwned within an inch of your life via a thread on the GANDO and we are cool.
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also,you dont have to disappear just publicly admit you where pwned within an inch of your life via a thread on the GANDO and we are cool.
::) yes nice try, however once again i asked for studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects. yes you have shown me that phenyalanine when taken alone in certain amounts causes these effects, however none of these studies compared the single amino with a complete amino source with equal quantities.
try again ::)
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::) yes nice try, however once again i asked for studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects. yes you have shown me that phenyalanine when taken alone in certain amounts causes these effects, however none of these studies compared the single amino with a complete amino source with equal quantities.
try again ::)
HAHA are you serious? does protein potentiate opiates? does protein have anti-depressant effects? NO!!.
"i asked you for studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects."
this is what i showed you, that phenylalanine when take seperately from other amino acids does have these properties, i have met your requirement two fold by posting more then one study, there are more also. You show me i did not meet this criteria you bolded for me above.
be a man and own up to your claim.
"show me studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects"
you said it twice, dont back track.
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HAHA are you serious? does protein potentiate opiates? does protein have anti-depressant effects? NO!!.
"i asked you for studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects."
this is what i showed you, that phenylalanine when take seperately from other amino acids does have these properties, i have met your requirement two fold by posting more then one study, there are more also. You show me i did not meet this criteria you bolded for me above.
be a man and own up to your claim.
"show me studies that show equal amounts of phenyalanine when take seperately from other aminos have destinct anti depressant and analgesic effects"
you said it twice, dont back track.
::) unbelievable
you claimed phenyalanine is an analgesic and anti depressant when taken separately but not in the form of whole protein - i disagreed and claimed at equal dosages it would make no difference - protein is protein.
you provided proof that phenylalanine is an analgesic and anti depressant when taken alone - again no comparison with a complete protein source with equal amounts of phenyalanine.
you have provided no studies that compare equal amounts of phenylalanine both alone or as part of a complete protein source. therefore have not proven your claim that it has distinct effects when taken alone. in fact:
the patent you posted below leads more weight to my claim that a more complete protein source with the same amount of phenylalanine has the same effects regardless of phenylalanine by itself.
"Phenylalanine, , D-leucine, DL-leucine and hydrocinnamic
acid have been found to possess analgesic and anti-inflammatory activity."
please stop trying to play with words and dance around your claim by wordplay.
can you or can you not provide a study that shows distinct effects of phenylalanine when taken alone over a complete protein source with an equal amount of phenylalanine?
yes or no?
don't worry professor, i already know you can't. ::)
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Supplements that really work,L-Glutamine, Waxey Maize Starch ( if it is from Potato not Corn),BCAAS, Kre-Alklayn,Milk Isolate, Whey Isolate, 80% Whey Protein Concenentrates, Ephedra,Amino Acids, and Egg Protein ECA stacks.
There is alot more good supplements, but this is just off of the top of my head.They are all tried and true.
No fancy names.If a product has an ingredient like Creatine Ethy Ester Beta Alanine , Sodium Creatine Phosphate or L- Glutamine Ethyl Ester, throw it in the trash!!!!!!!!!.These are made up chemicals.They dont exist !!!!!!!
i will pay you a million dollars for maize starch from potato. Idiot.
Jason
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wow, tingliness. too bad there is no correlation between tingliness or a pump (probably both caused by niacin) and building muscle.
beta alanine
Jason
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wow, tingliness. too bad there is no correlation between tingliness or a pump (probably both caused by niacin) and building muscle.
A pump or cappiliarisation can add 20% to a muscle size
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A pump or capilarization can add 20% to a muscle size
1) evidence please
2) only while you're on the drug
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I mena in general.
I subscribe to the theory that if natural you need to use relatively heavy weight to build muscle. However by pumping th emuscle over time you can add 20% to teh muscle. My coach told me this. Thats why in training routines its all heavy at tstart then pumpy shit and more reps at the end supersets etc...if you like ill ask him for a link.
I dont believe that chasing the pump is the key to bodybuiolding
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::) unbelievable
you claimed phenyalanine is an analgesic and anti depressant when taken separately but not in the form of whole protein - i disagreed and claimed at equal dosages it would make no difference - protein is protein.
you provided proof that phenylalanine is an analgesic and anti depressant when taken alone - again no comparison with a complete protein source with equal amounts of phenyalanine.
you have provided no studies that compare equal amounts of phenylalanine both alone or as part of a complete protein source. therefore have not proven your claim that it has distinct effects when taken alone. in fact:
the patent you posted below leads more weight to my claim that a more complete protein source with the same amount of phenylalanine has the same effects regardless of phenylalanine by itself.
"Phenylalanine, , D-leucine, DL-leucine and hydrocinnamic
acid have been found to possess analgesic and anti-inflammatory activity."
please stop trying to play with words and dance around your claim by wordplay.
can you or can you not provide a study that shows distinct effects of phenylalanine when taken alone over a complete protein source with an equal amount of phenylalanine?
yes or no?
don't worry professor, i already know you can't. ::)
i provided direct evidence that phenyalanine has both properties i stated, i met your challenge as stated.
also i provided evidence that amino acids compete with each other for substrates, and when taken together or as a complete protein they have different pysiological effects because of this. For example some amino acids become substrates for others like glutamine being conditionally essential, some are required to catalyze enzymatic reactions.
No such study exists because no one would do the study because it is a retarded, illogical and moronic study that everyone knows already. Whole proteins do not exert the effects of some of the individual amino acids when taken alone, everyone in biochemistry already knows this FACT, to disprove it as you are asking me to do only takes a basic overview of protein metabolism, if you can show that amino acids dont exert unique effects in contrast to what is known then you sir are a nobel prize winner.
But Since you are not a man of your word and didnt read the link i provided earlier i will hand feed you examples of amino acid competition, hence whole proteins with all these aminos would cause inhibition and interaction, nulifying the individual effects.By the way this is COMMON KNOWLEDGE, absolutely 100% proven fact and the fact that your questioning it shows me you have little to no education in the field.
Here are some known interactions
Taurine, glycine, GABA, and alanine - are antagonistic to glutamic acid and aspartic acid.
Tyrosine and phenylalanine are antagonistic to tryptophan.
Tyrosine and vanadium are antagonistic to carnitine.
Lysine is antagonistic to sulfur-containing amino acids.
Glycine, proline, and arginine increase threonine absorbtion.
phenylalanine interacts with tryptophan as they compete for the rate limiting step tyrosine hydroxylase.
YOU CLAIMED I SAID "you claimed phenyalanine is an analgesic and anti depressant when taken separately but not in the form of whole protein - i disagreed and claimed at equal dosages it would make no difference - protein is protein."
To prove this i posted studies, to prove you wrong specifically all i have to show is that phenyalanine and tryptophan compete for an enzyme to exert its effects, since your claim is that if 1 gram of phenyalanin is taken alone or 1 gram is taken with other aminos REGARDLESS of the other amino acid content that the analgesic and anti depressant effect would be the same. This is patently false because if the protein source is high in tryptophan then there will be competitive inhibition of some of the phenyalanine. Protien is not protein either, if you skew the amino profile hugely you can exert some unique effects, however free form single administration is much more effecitive and predictable.
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here this even has free full text on pubmed , start reading
Related Articles, LinksFernstrom JD.
Role of precursor availability in control of monoamine biosynthesis in brain.
Physiol Rev. 1983 Apr;63(2):484-546. Review. No abstract available.
PMID: 6132421 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
also. Quick excerpt from a study i have
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/137/6/1539S#BIB1
"As a result, physiologic and pathophysiologic factors that influence blood concentrations of these amino acids and others that compete with them for a common transporter across the blood brain barrier [the large neutral amino acids (LNAA)] predictably alter aromatic amino acid concentrations in brain, the formation and release of these monoamine transmitters, and consequently brain function "
my case is proven. Your an idiot, make the thread stop dodging the fucking agreement.
I hate stupid people FTR.
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here this even has free full text on pubmed , start reading
Related Articles, LinksFernstrom JD.
Role of precursor availability in control of monoamine biosynthesis in brain.
Physiol Rev. 1983 Apr;63(2):484-546. Review. No abstract available.
PMID: 6132421 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
also. Quick excerpt from a study i have
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/137/6/1539S#BIB1
"As a result, physiologic and pathophysiologic factors that influence blood concentrations of these amino acids and others that compete with them for a common transporter across the blood brain barrier [the large neutral amino acids (LNAA)] predictably alter aromatic amino acid concentrations in brain, the formation and release of these monoamine transmitters, and consequently brain function "
my case is proven. Your an idiot, make the thread stop dodging the fucking agreement.
I hate stupid people FTR. Perhaps you are getting caught up on the fact that yes protein is composed on amino acids. However, to get some of the unique effects of the proteins aminos hence why supplements are avalible(if you where right why would there be supplements? seems kinda stupid doesnt it?) you would have to skew the profile to quite a degree and also make sure that the inhibiting and competeing factors are low, as well as neutral aminos that have downstream effects(not that you have a clue what i meant by that). Cofactors are also required for catalyzation.
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i will pay you a million dollars for maize starch from potato. Idiot.
Jason
If my 3rd grade Native American history serves me well, maize = corn, not maize = potato. You are a million dollars richer.
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No such study exists
bingo - until you can show me a study that compares what i asked you are wasting your time.
i agree different protein sources ( comprised of different levels of each bcaa) will all have slightly different microbiological effects on the body, due to specific effects of each bcaa and their interactions, however this effect would also be insignificant due to the low dosages in the complete protein source compared to the high dosaged in the studies you posted.
remember this is a bodybuilding board, and the talk was started to discuss the benefits of taking a bcaa suplement over a complete protien source, not if you take a high enough dosages of a specific animo you would get a drug like effect (obviously taking enough of anything would eventually have some specific effect on the body) i.e. if you take 1kg of beef you will have a drug like effect, or 1kg of pasta, etc
bcaa supplements have no benefit over a complete protein source.
if someone introduced a bcaa supplement with 1000x the dosages of bcaa than found in a complete protein source then maybe it would be of benefit, but they aren't.
again all you do is play with words, i am not the fool you think, i can see through your petty attempts at deflection.
you have based your arguments stupid useless facts about Tyrosine and phenylalanine fighting with tryptophan to get access to the brain barrier.
tell me genius - what difference does this have for bodybuilders? also where does the Tyrosine and phenylalanine go if beaten to the brain barrier by tryptophan?
you are humiliatimg yourself here.
::)
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bingo - until you can show me a study that compares what i asked you are wasting your time.
i agree different protein sources ( comprised of different levels of each bcaa) will all have slightly different microbiological effects on the body, due to specific effects of each bcaa and their interactions, however this effect would also be insignificant due to the low dosages in the complete protein source compared to the high dosaged in the studies you posted.
remember this is a bodybuilding board, and the talk was started to discuss the benefits of taking a bcaa suplement over a complete protien source, not if you take a high enough dosages of a specific animo you would get a drug like effect (obviously taking enough of anything would eventually have some specific effect on the body) i.e. if you take 1kg of beef you will have a drug like effect, or 1kg of pasta, etc
bcaa supplements have no benefit over a complete protein source.
if someone introduced a bcaa supplement with 1000x the dosages of bcaa than found in a complete protein source then maybe it would be of benefit, but they aren't.
again all you do is play with words, i am not the fool you think, i can see through your petty attempts at deflection.
you have based your arguments stupid useless facts about Tyrosine and phenylalanine fighting with tryptophan to get access to the brain barrier.
tell me genius - what difference does this have for bodybuilders? also where does the Tyrosine and phenylalanine go if beaten to the brain barrier by tryptophan?
you are humiliatimg yourself here.
::)
:D :D :D
I agree 100%
Are you an MD, panda?
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:D :D :D
I agree 100%
Are you an MD, panda?
hahaha i wish i was for the cash, and free access to drug prescriptions :D
just an overly obsessed wannabe bodybuilder :D
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hahaha i wish i was for the cash, and free access to drug prescriptions :D
just an overly obsessed wannabe bodybuilder :D
I'm still waiting for empirical evidence which shows that any supplement out there has a significant effect on the purpose of bodybuilding when all other factors are kept constant. There is none. It's all bullshit backed up by pseudo-science or inapplicable scientific aspects.
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I'm still waiting for empirical evidence which shows that any supplement out there has a significant effect on the purpose of bodybuilding when all other factors are kept constant. There is none. It's all bullshit backed up by pseudo-science or inapplicable scientific aspects.
exactly:
sports drinks - no advantage over milk.
bcaa - no advantage over - meat or dairy
creatine - no advantage over beef
etc etc
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Here's an easy test for anyone who thinks supplements are backed by serious science:
Ask your doctor what "supplements" you should take for health, well-being, and sports.
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bingo - until you can show me a study that compares what i asked you are wasting your time.
i agree different protein sources ( comprised of different levels of each bcaa) will all have slightly different microbiological effects on the body, due to specific effects of each bcaa and their interactions, however this effect would also be insignificant due to the low dosages in the complete protein source compared to the high dosaged in the studies you posted.
remember this is a bodybuilding board, and the talk was started to discuss the benefits of taking a bcaa suplement over a complete protien source, not if you take a high enough dosages of a specific animo you would get a drug like effect (obviously taking enough of anything would eventually have some specific effect on the body) i.e. if you take 1kg of beef you will have a drug like effect, or 1kg of pasta, etc
bcaa supplements have no benefit over a complete protein source.
if someone introduced a bcaa supplement with 1000x the dosages of bcaa than found in a complete protein source then maybe it would be of benefit, but they aren't.
again all you do is play with words, i am not the fool you think, i can see through your petty attempts at deflection.
you have based your arguments stupid useless facts about Tyrosine and phenylalanine fighting with tryptophan to get access to the brain barrier.
tell me genius - what difference does this have for bodybuilders? also where does the Tyrosine and phenylalanine go if beaten to the brain barrier by tryptophan?
you are humiliatimg yourself here.
::)
what do you mean bingo?
no such study exists because the scientific community is aware that self adminsitration of aminos has a different effect then co-administration because of competition. Here you have you, someone with no education in the field and me, someone who has some and you are arguing with me on something you know nothing about.
bcaas do have distinct effects over protein supplements, your statment is wrong.
if they compete and dont get the substrate they are excreted GENIUS, fuck this is like arguing with a kid.
Do you have any knowledge of simple biochemistry? Answer this question. I have proven that phenylalanine has the effects i stated, i have proven that other aminos compete for transport or substrates.
I have proven you wrong with scientific studies, articles and text and you still claim because a bogus study in which you yourself have designed doesnt exist i am wrong. LMAO!!! i already told you that no one would do the study, Its like you asking me to find a study comparing the effects of alcohol vs carbs to see if both cause intoxication because beer contains carbs.
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I'm still waiting for empirical evidence which shows that any supplement out there has a significant effect on the purpose of bodybuilding when all other factors are kept constant. There is none. It's all bullshit backed up by pseudo-science or inapplicable scientific aspects.
will brink told you, you were wrong, i told you you were wrong. You have no training in the field and yet you get spreading your lies and misinformation.
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bingo - until you can show me a study that compares what i asked you are wasting your time.
i agree different protein sources ( comprised of different levels of each bcaa) will all have slightly different microbiological effects on the body, due to specific effects of each bcaa and their interactions, however this effect would also be insignificant due to the low dosages in the complete protein source compared to the high dosaged in the studies you posted.
remember this is a bodybuilding board, and the talk was started to discuss the benefits of taking a bcaa suplement over a complete protien source, not if you take a high enough dosages of a specific animo you would get a drug like effect (obviously taking enough of anything would eventually have some specific effect on the body) i.e. if you take 1kg of beef you will have a drug like effect, or 1kg of pasta, etc
bcaa supplements have no benefit over a complete protein source.
if someone introduced a bcaa supplement with 1000x the dosages of bcaa than found in a complete protein source then maybe it would be of benefit, but they aren't.
again all you do is play with words, i am not the fool you think, i can see through your petty attempts at deflection.
you have based your arguments stupid useless facts about Tyrosine and phenylalanine fighting with tryptophan to get access to the brain barrier.
tell me genius - what difference does this have for bodybuilders? also where does the Tyrosine and phenylalanine go if beaten to the brain barrier by tryptophan?
you are humiliatimg yourself here.
::)
Ètell me genius - what difference does this have for bodybuilders? also where does the Tyrosine and phenylalanine go if beaten to the brain barrier by tryptophan?È
it has a big difference. For example BCAAS are popular and leucine has been shown by itself to increase protein synthesis. However, tryp also competes with leucine so proteins high in tryp will cause greater excreation of leucine dampening the effect. Therefore, taking high doses of leucine alone will cause increased protein synthesis and less competition.
Pretty fucking straightforward, dont know how you cant see the benefit there. It goes down the gamit also. Why does tryptophan make people tired but protien not?
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Here's an easy test for anyone who thinks supplements are backed by serious science:
Ask your doctor what "supplements" you should take for health, well-being, and sports.
well in two years you can ask me and i will recommend and plethora of supplements to you. Look at the study i posted of phenylalanine vs tofranil(a presciption anti-d that is potentially cardiotoxic, has anti cholinergic sides etc). Both where similarly effective, why would anyone take tofranil for depression with its nasty sides vs phenylalanine and its beneign sides?
SUPPLEMENTS ARE BACKED BY DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES, WHAT SERIOUS SCIENCE ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
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Here's an easy test for anyone who thinks supplements are backed by serious science:
Ask your doctor what "supplements" you should take for health, well-being, and sports.
Stupidest post of the day. Your average doctor couldn't even name a supplement, let alone provide any sort of scientific insight into benefits or lack thereof. Most doctors I've encountered only know what they learned in med school, which was basically what they learned in one lecture of one class of one semester. Doctors are not specialists when it comes to the supplement industry.
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Stupidest post of the day. Your average doctor couldn't even name a supplement, let alone provide any sort of scientific insight into benefits or lack thereof. Most doctors I've encountered only know what they learned in med school, which was basically what they learned in one lecture of one class of one semester. Doctors are not specialists when it comes to the supplement industry.
Then why do you think is it that doctors don't learn about it in med school?
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Then why do you think is it that doctors don't learn about it in med school?
Because they have more important things to worry about, like cancer, diabetes, heart disease, stroke, Parkinsons, angina, epilepsy, narcolepsy, skeletal fractures, athsma, hypertension, hypoglycemia, etc. How many do you think a doctor sees more of, somebody who needs to take medication to reduce their blood pressure, or a bodybuilder who wants to know whether creatine monohydrate is more or less efficient than creatine ethyl ester? Sports supplements apply to less than 1% of the general population.
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will brink told you, you were wrong, i told you you were wrong. You have no training in the field and yet you get spreading your lies and misinformation.
well in two years you can ask me and i will recommend and plethora of supplements to you. Look at the study i posted of phenylalanine vs tofranil(a presciption anti-d that is potentially cardiotoxic, has anti cholinergic sides etc). Both where similarly effective, why would anyone take tofranil for depression with its nasty sides vs phenylalanine and its beneign sides?
SUPPLEMENTS ARE BACKED BY DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES, WHAT SERIOUS SCIENCE ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
Replied to in the N, P & S thread.
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if they compete and dont get the substrate they are excreted
hahahahahahaha you are a clown - delete your acount right now, and go back to your 'education'. ::)
it has a big difference. For example BCAAS are popular and leucine has been shown by itself to increase protein synthesis. However, tryp also competes with leucine so proteins high in tryp will cause greater excreation of leucine dampening the effect. Therefore, taking high doses of leucine alone will cause increased protein synthesis and less competition.
hahahahahahaha clearly you are retarded, try taking high doasages of leucine instead of a compete protein source and reply here in a year, and tell me how much muscle you have gained ::) or are you once again claiming that leucine stimulates protein synthesis more than a complete protein source ::)
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Because they have more important things to worry about, like cancer, diabetes, heart disease, stroke, Parkinsons, angina, epilepsy, narcolepsy, skeletal fractures, athsma, hypertension, hypoglycemia, etc. How many do you think a doctor sees more of, somebody who needs to take medication to reduce their blood pressure, or a bodybuilder who wants to know whether creatine monohydrate is more or less efficient than creatine ethyl ester? Sports supplements apply to less than 1% of the general population.
Good point, but my guess is that if anything would actually work, most doctors would at least know about it. Could be wrong though.
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Good point, but my guess is that if anything would actually work, most doctors would at least know about it. Could be wrong though.
Unfortunately, in my experience, you are. I've worked as a personal trainer for almost 5 years and encountered a lot of resistance from medical doctors when it comes to client supplementation, even on things like multi-vitamins or essential fats. I'm not claiming to know everything, in fact, a lot of the posting in this thread has been educational for me, but dietary supplementation, and even diet in general, appears to be rather far down on the list of educational priorities for your average general practitioner.
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Unfortunately, in my experience, you are. I've worked as a personal trainer for almost 5 years and encountered a lot of resistance from medical doctors when it comes to client supplementation, even on things like multi-vitamins or essential fats. I'm not claiming to know everything, in fact, a lot of the posting in this thread has been educational for me, but dietary supplementation, and even diet in general, appears to be rather far down on the list of educational priorities for your average general practitioner.
i have noticed distinct effects of fats when taken in large quantities, between flax oil, olive oil, and hemp oil. so to me they are valuable supplements, if not taken in adequate quantities through diet.
i take large dosages of vit c and multi vit and mineral - i have never noticed any effect from these, however i have read enough about vitamin c, and vitamins in general to feel they are worth the risk.
there is actually a patent that states vit c cures heart disease. it was discovered by a nobel prize winner linus pauling. although it is not well documented or publicised - i wonder why?
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hahahahahahaha you are a clown - delete your acount right now, and go back to your 'education'. ::)
hahahahahahaha clearly you are retarded, try taking high doasages of leucine instead of a compete protein source and reply here in a year, and tell me how much muscle you have gained ::) or are you once again claiming that leucine stimulates protein synthesis more than a complete protein source ::)
nice retort ::) you havent provided one argument in this whole thread, i met your challenge you backed out, simple as that. Amino acids when they have no substrate can be used in glycogenesis,gluconeogenesis, adipose formation, it all depends on the bodies current state. But they do get broken down into UREA and excreted, are you again arguing this scientific fact?
i didnt say that leucine could stimulate protein synthesis more so then protein, would you like me to post the SCIENTIFIC research? im sure you have no knowledge on the matter so why do i keep wasting my time.
Again i have met your challenge, make the thread be a man. I have proven beyond a resonable doubt that specific amino acids exert effects when in isolation, and have given research and the mechanism.
I wont waste my time with you anymore unless you provide a cogent argument against these scientific facts, one of us is wrong, our positions are mutually exclusive. Who to believe? the guy with no education, and hasnt said one intelligent thing is this thread or people who have studied nutrition, biochemistry and have to assesed by an educational facility on that knowledge?
Are you arguing that amino acids dont compete? Please enlighten us. LMAO!!
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i have noticed distinct effects of fats when taken in large quantities, between flax oil, olive oil, and hemp oil. so to me they are valuable supplements, if not taken in adequate quantities through diet.
i take large dosages of vit c and multi vit and mineral - i have never noticed any effect from these, however i have read enough about vitamin c, and vitamins in general to feel they are worth the risk.
there is actually a patent that states vit c cures heart disease. it was discovered by a nobel prize winner linus pauling. although it is not well documented or publicised - i wonder why?
HAHAHA the idiocy of this post is astounding. CURES heart disease, please tell us of the mechanism and outline what heart disease entails. Do you even know what animals lack the enzyme to create de novo vitamin c? Why would evolution cause us to loose this enzyme when it has curative properties? Wouldnt that make no sense?
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hahahahahahaha clearly you are retarded, try taking high doasages of leucine instead of a compete protein source and reply here in a year, and tell me how much muscle you have gained ::) or are you once again claiming that leucine stimulates protein synthesis more than a complete protein source ::)
i would die if i did not take in all the essential amino acids, you have a reading comprehension problem.
Also ZACH. Wavelength that the taste of the food was more valid then scientific research in order to determine that foods healthfullness, lol. These are the people who are arguing about nutrition.
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Also ZACH. Wavelength that the taste of the food was more valid then scientific research in order to determine that foods healthfullness, lol. These are the people who are arguing about nutrition.
You are missing the point.
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HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA meltdown
yes I'm so uneducated i have caused you to meltdown and post 3 times in a row.
if you want to know the mechanisms that cause vit c to cure heart disease you are welcome to read the patent yourself :
http://www.communicationagents.com/chris/5278189.pdf
you are a cock, and have been exposed as a fool, who hides behind long words and useless abstracts. - again show me the proof i require and i will admit you are smarter ::) take your time einstein.
Also as a man who claims to be educated in the ways of nutrition, biochemistry and have to assesed by an educational facility on that knowledge, you really should be more open minded regarding the field of Orthomolecular treatments.
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You are missing the point.
whats the point, you said this did you not?
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Hey FatPanda, I think you should stop arguing with Usmokepole on this subject. He has proven his points several times, and his history as a poster on Getbig dictates that he is going to be accurate with his Info pretty much 100% of the time.
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HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA meltdown
yes I'm so uneducated i have caused you to meltdown and post 3 times in a row.
if you want to know the mechanisms that cause vit c to cure heart disease you are welcome to read the patent yourself :
http://www.communicationagents.com/chris/5278189.pdf
you are a cock, and have been exposed as a fool, who hides behind long words and useless abstracts. - again show me the proof i require and i will admit you are smarter ::) take your time einstein.
Also as a man who claims to be educated in the ways of nutrition, biochemistry and have to assesed by an educational facility on that knowledge, you really should be more open minded regarding the field of Orthomolecular treatments.
I am, i use vitamin c for many things, i am not open to non scientific conjecture. How have i been exposed, you have provided no evidence and i met your claim, you have a definition of science and want me to provide evidence to support your theory which is patently false, how can i possibly do that. All i can do is show you fact and provide the evidence, maybe you should extend the same curtisy.
Lets show how much of a moron you are. You claimed vitamin c cures heart disease. You didnt even read the link you provided did you?
"The present invention provides a method and pharmaceutical agent for the treatment and prevention
of occlusive cardiovascular disease generally, by administering to a subject an effective amount of
ascorbate and one or more binding inhibitors."
"What is claimed is:
1. A pharmaceutical composition consisting essentially of ascorbate, traexamic acid, lysine and nicotinic
acid said ingredients in an amount effective to treat Lp (a)associated
occlusive cardiovascular disease.
2. A method of treatment of occlusive cardiovascular disease comprising the step of administering to a
subject a therapeutic composition comprising ascorbate and tranexamic acid in an amount sufficient to
decrease the binding of liproprotein (a) to blood vessel walls.
3. A method according to claim 2 wherein said ascorbate is selected from the group consisting of
pharmaceutically acceptable ascorbate salts, ascorbic acid and mixtures thereof."
it does not state that vitamin c CURES heart disease. LMAO
Now to learn about occlusive arterial disease
http://www.bmhcc.org/health/library/card3479.asp
"Besides cholesterol, there are other causes of this disease. Sometimes there is an infection or blood clot which causes small clots to become lodged in the arteries. At other times, there can be a swelling of the arteries.
The treatment of arterial occlusive disease depends on the cause. It also depends on which arteries are affected. Persons who smoke should stop if they have this disease. Diabetes will also make the problem worse. If the problem is caused by a build-up of plaques, patients should reduce the cholesterol and fats in their diet. If is caused by another problem, such as inflammation, there will be specific medicines for the disease."
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
another blow to your theory that vitamin c is a cure all for cardiovascular disease.
Your a fool stop replying its only getting worse for you, dont commit to anything substantial or make anymore claims as i will expose you using facts for the assclown you are. The mechanism as you put it is lowered lipoproteins, does it lower HDL, what about if the cause is blood pressure, or homocysteine, or fibrin elevation, what then genius?
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Hey FatPanda, I think you should stop arguing with Usmokepole on this subject. He has proven his points several times, and his history as a poster on Getbig dictates that he is going to be accurate with his Info pretty much 100% of the time.
appreciate the comment, but im done arguing now.
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I am, i use vitamin c for many things, i am not open to non scientific conjecture. How have i been exposed, you have provided no evidence and i met your claim, you have a definition of science and want me to provide evidence to support your theory which is patently false, how can i possibly do that. All i can do is show you fact and provide the evidence, maybe you should extend the same curtisy.
Lets show how much of a moron you are. You claimed vitamin c cures heart disease. You didnt even read the link you provided did you?
"The present invention provides a method and pharmaceutical agent for the treatment and prevention
of occlusive cardiovascular disease generally, by administering to a subject an effective amount of
ascorbate and one or more binding inhibitors."
"What is claimed is:
1. A pharmaceutical composition consisting essentially of ascorbate, traexamic acid, lysine and nicotinic
acid said ingredients in an amount effective to treat Lp (a)associated
occlusive cardiovascular disease.
2. A method of treatment of occlusive cardiovascular disease comprising the step of administering to a
subject a therapeutic composition comprising ascorbate and tranexamic acid in an amount sufficient to
decrease the binding of liproprotein (a) to blood vessel walls.
3. A method according to claim 2 wherein said ascorbate is selected from the group consisting of
pharmaceutically acceptable ascorbate salts, ascorbic acid and mixtures thereof."
it does not state that vitamin c CURES heart disease. LMAO
Now to learn about occlusive arterial disease
http://www.bmhcc.org/health/library/card3479.asp
"Besides cholesterol, there are other causes of this disease. Sometimes there is an infection or blood clot which causes small clots to become lodged in the arteries. At other times, there can be a swelling of the arteries.
The treatment of arterial occlusive disease depends on the cause. It also depends on which arteries are affected. Persons who smoke should stop if they have this disease. Diabetes will also make the problem worse. If the problem is caused by a build-up of plaques, patients should reduce the cholesterol and fats in their diet. If is caused by another problem, such as inflammation, there will be specific medicines for the disease."
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
another blow to your theory that vitamin c is a cure all for cardiovascular disease.
Your a fool stop replying its only getting worse for you, dont commit to anything substantial or make anymore claims as i will expose you using facts for the assclown you are. The mechanism as you put it is lowered lipoproteins, does it lower HDL, what about if the cause is blood pressure, or homocysteine, or fibrin elevation, what then genius?
::) absorbic acid is vitamin c you clown ::)
let me break this down for you as you clearly cannot understand the compicated nature of this patent:
the amino acid lysine and its analogs, along with vit C and other antioxidants e.g. Co-Q10, vitamin a and vitamin e, can, if teh concentration is high enough, inhibit Lp(a) binding to exposed lysine residues. Proline residues are also exposed by lesions in blood vessels. Later experiments have also shown that proline as well as lysine, with vit C, other aminos and antiox's, in oral amounts much higher than needed for prevention, becomes a solvent by inhibiting the binding of Lp(a). A binding inhibitor augmented with vitamin C can stop and even reverses some plaque formations. Linus Pauling even has a second patent for using these inhibitors to melt arterial plaque from human organs during organ transplants. The organ is dipped in the Lp(a) Binding Inhibitor solution and the plaques melt away :o
in laymans terms: the vit c increases arterial wall elasticity which reduces the chance of cracks and blockages, and the lysine or more recently recommended proline breaks down the arterial blockages, together both work to cure heart disease, and prevent arterial blockages.
lycine is found in more than adequate ammounts in all complete protein sources, meaning as long as you take vit c you will well protected.
Linus pauling has cured many many people with this treatment.
and as for the animals you comented on that produce it, naturally there has not ben one case of heart disease in them, however as studies show as soon as their ability to produce vit c is nulified, the die of heart disease within a matter of weeks.
as for the phenylalanine comments ::) anyone who understands the metabolism of aminos will know you are full of shit.
once again can you, or can you not prove via study that it has more pronounced effects than an equal amount contained in a complete protein source ::)
i believe you cannot, if you prove me wrong i will happily admit defeat.
tbombz, i strongly recommend you take everything this 'genius' says with a pinch of salt. he likes to dazzle with plenty of abstracts and plays on words, but it is all show and no substance.
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whats the point, you said this did you not?
What I meant (and wrote) is that eventually a nutritional theory will come along which matches my eating habits anyway. This may not apply to everyone's diet. I do believe that a wide variety of foods is healthy, although not primarily out of scientific reasons. I also believe that generally speaking, it is important that what I eat tastes good to me, in order to be healthy.
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::) absorbic acid is vitamin c you clown ::)
let me break this down for you as you clearly cannot understand the compicated nature of this patent:
the amino acid lysine and its analogs, along with vit C and other antioxidants e.g. Co-Q10, vitamin a and vitamin e, can, if teh concentration is high enough, inhibit Lp(a) binding to exposed lysine residues. Proline residues are also exposed by lesions in blood vessels. Later experiments have also shown that proline as well as lysine, with vit C, other aminos and antiox's, in oral amounts much higher than needed for prevention, becomes a solvent by inhibiting the binding of Lp(a). A binding inhibitor augmented with vitamin C can stop and even reverses some plaque formations. Linus Pauling even has a second patent for using these inhibitors to melt arterial plaque from human organs during organ transplants. The organ is dipped in the Lp(a) Binding Inhibitor solution and the plaques melt away :o
in laymans terms: the vit c increases arterial wall elasticity which reduces the chance of cracks and blockages, and the lysine or more recently recommended proline breaks down the arterial blockages, together both work to cure heart disease, and prevent arterial blockages.
lycine is found in more than adequate ammounts in all complete protein sources, meaning as long as you take vit c you will well protected.
Linus pauling has cured many many people with this treatment.
and as for the animals you comented on that produce it, naturally there has not ben one case of heart disease in them, however as studies show as soon as their ability to produce vit c is nulified, the die of heart disease within a matter of weeks.
as for the phenylalanine comments ::) anyone who understands the metabolism of aminos will know you are full of shit.
once again can you, or can you not prove via study that it has more pronounced effects than an equal amount contained in a complete protein source ::)
i believe you cannot, if you prove me wrong i will happily admit defeat.
tbombz, i strongly recommend you take everything this 'genius' says with a pinch of salt. he likes to dazzle with plenty of abstracts and plays on words, but it is all show and no substance.
"absorbic acid is vitamin c you clown "
please show me where i claimed it wasnt. Dude stop the non sense your distracting tactics and non sequitor arguments and mind numbing. I didnt claim anything about absorbic acid not being vitamin c, so why are you posting this? More lies and misinformation.
you claimed vitamin c cured heart disease, it does not. What you provided was a patent that vitamin c ALONG with other nutrients listed in the paper you provided,ergo, your claim is false as it is not just vitamine c, nor is it a cure.
"and as for the animals you comented on that produce it, naturally there has not ben one case of heart disease in them, however as studies show as soon as their ability to produce vit c is nulified, the die of heart disease within a matter of weeks."
obviously ::), lol.
"as for the phenylalanine comments ::) anyone who understands the metabolism of aminos will know you are full of shit."
i think its quite the opposite, prove me wrong.
once again can you, or can you not prove via study that it has more pronounced effects than an equal amount contained in a complete protein source ::)"
yes i can.And i did, why do you think they used just phenylalanine, are they ignorant to the competitive inhibition that i made up, or perhaps they realize something you dont. I dont know, ill side with the experts and researchers on this one.
"the amino acid lysine and its analogs, along with vit C and other antioxidants e.g. Co-Q10, vitamin a and vitamin e, can, if teh concentration is high enough, inhibit Lp(a) binding to exposed lysine residues. Proline residues are also exposed by lesions in blood vessels. Later experiments have also shown that proline as well as lysine, with vit C, other aminos and antiox's, in oral amounts much higher than needed for prevention, becomes a solvent by inhibiting the binding of Lp(a). A binding inhibitor augmented with vitamin C can stop and even reverses some plaque formations. Linus Pauling even has a second patent for using these inhibitors to melt arterial plaque from human organs during organ transplants. The organ is dipped in the Lp(a) Binding Inhibitor solution and the plaques melt away"
please quote what you copy and paste. Also this is what im saying, you said vitamin c cures cardiovascular disease, when it is a combo approach for one, and one of the specific causes of cardiovascular disease. Thus, you are wrong by saying vitamin c alone cures heart disease on both fronts. I have proven you wrong on every single one of your claims, im actually starting to feel bad for doing this to you.
"once again can you, or can you not prove via study that it has more pronounced effects than an equal amount contained in a complete protein source
i believe you cannot, if you prove me wrong i will happily admit defeat."
i did, via factual and research evidence. I just didnt provide the exact study you have made up in your head, sorry i cannot force the scientific community to study something they know is pointless.
"tbombz, i strongly recommend you take everything this 'genius' says with a pinch of salt. he likes to dazzle with plenty of abstracts and plays on words, but it is all show and no substance."
LMAO more character assasination? i dont claim to be a genius and i usually help people as much as i can with my limited knowledge. I will willingly admit when i am wrong like i did with adonis when i told him he was right about atheism.
"he likes to dazzle with plenty of abstracts and plays on words, but it is all show and no substance.""
if only you backed up your claims with evidence like i did, then this argument would not even had made it past one reply.
we cam discuss the mechanisms of cholesterol biosynthesis, centripetal transport, the rate limiting uptake of cholesterol whatever you like, foam streak formation etc...
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What I meant (and wrote) is that eventually a nutritional theory will come along which matches my eating habits anyway. This may not apply to everyone's diet. I do believe that a wide variety of foods is healthy, although not primarily out of scientific reasons. I also believe that generally speaking, it is important that what I eat tastes good to me, in order to be healthy.
sure you can think what you want. I could twist your words and claim things you never said but you have expanded on what you said to make it a little more sensible. It is not true however.
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"absorbic acid is vitamin c you clown "
please show me where i claimed it wasnt. Dude stop the non sense your distracting tactics and non sequitor arguments and mind numbing. I didnt claim anything about absorbic acid not being vitamin c, so why are you posting this? More lies and misinformation.
you claimed vitamin c cured heart disease, it does not. What you provided was a patent that vitamin c ALONG with other nutrients listed in the paper you provided,ergo, your claim is false as it is not just vitamine c, nor is it a cure.
"and as for the animals you comented on that produce it, naturally there has not ben one case of heart disease in them, however as studies show as soon as their ability to produce vit c is nulified, the die of heart disease within a matter of weeks."
obviously ::), lol.
"as for the phenylalanine comments ::) anyone who understands the metabolism of aminos will know you are full of shit."
i think its quite the opposite, prove me wrong.
once again can you, or can you not prove via study that it has more pronounced effects than an equal amount contained in a complete protein source ::)"
yes i can.And i did, why do you think they used just phenylalanine, are they ignorant to the competitive inhibition that i made up, or perhaps they realize something you dont. I dont know, ill side with the experts and researchers on this one.
"the amino acid lysine and its analogs, along with vit C and other antioxidants e.g. Co-Q10, vitamin a and vitamin e, can, if teh concentration is high enough, inhibit Lp(a) binding to exposed lysine residues. Proline residues are also exposed by lesions in blood vessels. Later experiments have also shown that proline as well as lysine, with vit C, other aminos and antiox's, in oral amounts much higher than needed for prevention, becomes a solvent by inhibiting the binding of Lp(a). A binding inhibitor augmented with vitamin C can stop and even reverses some plaque formations. Linus Pauling even has a second patent for using these inhibitors to melt arterial plaque from human organs during organ transplants. The organ is dipped in the Lp(a) Binding Inhibitor solution and the plaques melt away"
please quote what you copy and paste. Also this is what im saying, you said vitamin c cures cardiovascular disease, when it is a combo approach for one, and one of the specific causes of cardiovascular disease. Thus, you are wrong by saying vitamin c alone cures heart disease on both fronts. I have proven you wrong on every single one of your claims, im actually starting to feel bad for doing this to you.
"once again can you, or can you not prove via study that it has more pronounced effects than an equal amount contained in a complete protein source
i believe you cannot, if you prove me wrong i will happily admit defeat."
i did, via factual and research evidence. I just didnt provide the exact study you have made up in your head, sorry i cannot force the scientific community to study something they know is pointless.
"tbombz, i strongly recommend you take everything this 'genius' says with a pinch of salt. he likes to dazzle with plenty of abstracts and plays on words, but it is all show and no substance."
LMAO more character assasination? i dont claim to be a genius and i usually help people as much as i can with my limited knowledge. I will willingly admit when i am wrong like i did with adonis when i told him he was right about atheism.
"he likes to dazzle with plenty of abstracts and plays on words, but it is all show and no substance.""
if only you backed up your claims with evidence like i did, then this argument would not even had made it past one reply.
we cam discuss the mechanisms of cholesterol biosynthesis, centripetal transport, the rate limiting uptake of cholesterol whatever you like, foam streak formation etc...
::) i clearly own your mind.
you are pathetic, this is all you have left pointing out its not only vit c hahahahahahaha i can see why tbombz rates you so highly ::)
very well vit c and a complete protein source cures heart disease - happy now ::)
you clearly could not understand that patent and you have also owned yourself by your animal claim earlier, and you deflect it by simply saying " obviously, lol" to hide the fact that you have made a cvnt of yourself.
i also see more fancy words like 'centripetal transport' from you to deflect and confuse ::)
you are clearly frustrated that i have saw through your all flash, pubmed abstracts and no substance answers, and think that if you talk long enough you will convince people you were right, when the fact is this 'uneducated fellow' drew you into an argument you could not win, as the evidence is far from conclusive. ::)
delete your account and try again.
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sure you can think what you want. I could twist your words and claim things you never said but you have expanded on what you said to make it a little more sensible. It is not true however.
If you look at my posts in the Nutrition thread, that's exactly what I wrote. Maybe we should keep it there. Doesn't make sense to have the same discussion twice.
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::) i clearly own your mind.
you are pathetic, this is all you have left pointing out its not only vit c hahahahahahaha i can see why tbombz rates you so highly ::)
very well vit c and a complete protein source cures heart disease - happy now ::)
you clearly could not understand that patent and you have also owned yourself by your animal claim earlier, and you deflect it by simply saying " obviously, lol" to hide the fact that you have made a #### of yourself.
i also see more fancy words like 'centripetal transport' from you to deflect and confuse ::)
you are clearly frustrated that i have saw through your all flash, pubmed abstracts and no substance answers, and think that if you talk long enough you will convince people you were right, when the fact is this 'uneducated fellow' drew you into an argument you could not win, as the evidence is far from conclusive. ::)
delete your account and try again.
"you clearly could not understand that patent and you have also owned yourself by your animal claim earlier, and you deflect it by simply saying " obviously, lol" to hide the fact that you have made a #### of yourself."
what? we lack the enzyme because we have found sources rich in vitamin c, the vitamin is needed, clearly those animals still have the enzyme because they lack a diet with sufficient vitamin c, obviously if mutate them to not contain the enzyme they die, as we would if you took vitamin c out of our diet, ever hear of scruvy? me saying obviously proves nothing but this point, try again.
your not owning anything, i feel bad for someone like you BUT at the same time wish i was as ignorant since it is said to be bliss.
"ou are clearly frustrated that i have saw through your all flash, pubmed abstracts and no substance answers, and think that if you talk long enough you will convince people you were right, when the fact is this 'uneducated fellow' drew you into an argument you could not win, as the evidence is far from conclusive. ::)"
prove it. Stomping like a little kid and claiming your right doesnt make it so, qualify your statements like i have.
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::) i clearly own your mind.
you are pathetic, this is all you have left pointing out its not only vit c hahahahahahaha i can see why tbombz rates you so highly ::)
very well vit c and a complete protein source cures heart disease - happy now ::)
you clearly could not understand that patent and you have also owned yourself by your animal claim earlier, and you deflect it by simply saying " obviously, lol" to hide the fact that you have made a #### of yourself.
i also see more fancy words like 'centripetal transport' from you to deflect and confuse ::)
you are clearly frustrated that i have saw through your all flash, pubmed abstracts and no substance answers, and think that if you talk long enough you will convince people you were right, when the fact is this 'uneducated fellow' drew you into an argument you could not win, as the evidence is far from conclusive. ::)
delete your account and try again.
im gone get ya im gon rape ya im gon eat your shorts.
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what? we lack the enzyme because we have found sources rich in vitamin c, the vitamin is needed, clearly those animals still have the enzyme because they lack a diet with sufficient vitamin c, obviously if mutate them to not contain the enzyme they die, as we would if you took vitamin c out of our diet, ever hear of scruvy? me saying obviously proves nothing but this point, try again.
hahahahahahaha no i've never heard of scruvy, but i have heard of scurvy. ::)
look you halfwit, i'm getting sick or running in circles with you. you are wasting my time, you started an argument you cannot win. you are annoyed, now are trying to do your usual or playing with words, to try to save face, you have been ruined here by an uneducated man ::) your posts have zero substance, and you have been owned badly.
I told YOU vitamin c cures heart disease. In animal's who produce it naturally, they never get heart disease. when they are genetically modified not to produce vitamin c they die of heart disease, humans get vit c from their diet. linus Pauling came up with the theory than heart disease is a chronic lack of Viet c in our diet. He has cured hundreds of people with his ideas.
You claimed i was talking shit, and to prove the mechanism behind how it cures heart disease - i not only explained it in laymans terms, but i posted a link to the patent. Then you fvcked up by revealing you did not even understanding how it worked - despite your great education.
now as usual you are running in circles playing with words, trying to salvage your once respected reputation - you have been exposed in this thread. you are a fraud, you are done.
this post says it all for me:
im gone get ya im gon rape ya im gon eat your shorts.
you are clearly a child, i have owned you, you are probably sitting at home right now with tears in your eyes, trying to think of some way to start an argument with me to salvage your reputation ::)
i expect you will follow me around getbig now, trying you best to get revenge for this brutal annihilation.
take it on the chin like a man, and move on. I am done with you.
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hahahahahahaha no i've never heard of scruvy, but i have heard of scurvy. ::)
look you halfwit, i'm getting sick or running in circles with you. you are wasting my time, you started an argument you cannot win. you are annoyed, now are trying to do your usual or playing with words, to try to save face, you have been ruined here by an uneducated man ::) your posts have zero substance, and you have been owned badly.
I told YOU vitamin c cures heart disease. In animal's who produce it naturally, they never get heart disease. when they are genetically modified not to produce vitamin c they die of heart disease, humans get vit c from their diet. linus Pauling came up with the theory than heart disease is a chronic lack of Viet c in our diet. He has cured hundreds of people with his ideas.
You claimed i was talking shit, and to prove the mechanism behind how it cures heart disease - i not only explained it in laymans terms, but i posted a link to the patent. Then you fvcked up by revealing you did not even understanding how it worked - despite your great education.
now as usual you are running in circles playing with words, trying to salvage your once respected reputation - you have been exposed in this thread. you are a fraud, you are done.
this post says it all for me:you are clearly a child, i have owned you, you are probably sitting at home right now with tears in your eyes, trying to think of some way to start an argument with me to salvage your reputation ::)
i expect you will follow me around getbig now, trying you best to get revenge for this brutal annihilation.
take it on the chin like a man, and move on. I am done with you.
"hahahahahahaha no i've never heard of scruvy, but i have heard of scurvy. ::)
look you halfwit, i'm getting sick or running in circles with you. you are wasting my time, you started an argument you cannot win. you are annoyed, now are trying to do your usual or playing with words, to try to save face, you have been ruined here by an uneducated man ::) your posts have zero substance, and you have been owned badly.
I told YOU vitamin c cures heart disease. In animal's who produce it naturally, they never get heart disease. when they are genetically modified not to produce vitamin c they die of heart disease, humans get vit c from their diet. linus Pauling came up with the theory than heart disease is a chronic lack of Viet c in our diet. He has cured hundreds of people with his ideas.
You claimed i was talking shit, and to prove the mechanism behind how it cures heart disease - i not only explained it in laymans terms, but i posted a link to the patent. Then you fvcked up by revealing you did not even understanding how it worked - despite your great education."
your left to pointing out spelling mistakes, lol.
vitamin c does not cure heart disease, you are wrong. Prove it with studies, evidence.
also prove that animals with gulonolactone oxidase dont get heart disease. Because this is a lie also
http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/animatedjourneys/pethealth/canine.asp
simple example. What you gave me was a treatment for one of the causes of heart disease, one of the factors in the pathogenesis and not the sole etiology, you are wrong and are lying.
"this post says it all for me:you are clearly a child, i have owned you, you are probably sitting at home right now with tears in your eyes, trying to think of some way to start an argument with me to salvage your reputation ::)
i expect you will follow me around getbig now, trying you best to get revenge for this brutal annihilation.
take it on the chin like a man, and move on. I am done with you."
hahahahaha typical quiter, you have been brutally owned, i did expect you to give up but not this quick. Please keep posting, i find it amusing to pick apart you half truths and lies. Honestly, im seeing how many ways i can destroy your feeble mind.
AHAHAHHA i bet your a taste tester at the local glory hole.
the only ownage here has been my destruction of you lies and stupidity, however it is not much of an pwnage because you have no credibility nor expertise in any area so this argument has been like ed whitten teaching the times table to a kid with downs, full retard.
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so just go and drink a shitload of oranges and you wil be fine... :P
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so just go and drink a shitload of oranges and you wil be fine... :P
That would require a large straw.
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I just like how everyone is an expert on nutrition and everyone puts "their hand up" to answer questions on the matter. ::)
Just how argumentative would everyone be sitting in on a course on advanced metabolism or biochemistry where there are actually people who KNOW what they're talking about... ???
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I just like how everyone is an expert on nutrition and everyone puts "their hand up" to answer questions on the matter. ::)
Just how argumentative would everyone be sitting in on a course on advanced metabolism or biochemistry where there are actually people who KNOW what they're talking about... ???
thanks for your input sean i agree.
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I just like how everyone is an expert on nutrition and everyone puts "their hand up" to answer questions on the matter. ::)
Just how argumentative would everyone be sitting in on a course on advanced metabolism or biochemistry where there are actually people who KNOW what they're talking about... ???
its painful to talk to someone without the slightest knowledge on the matter, someone would couldnt even explain the krebs cycle, the importance of a handle, glycolysis or any other simple biochemistry concepts.
Someone on this board has a phd in biochemistry i beleive.
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thanks for your input sean i agree.
dont you quit on me now, dont you quit on me. Keep going, find some more CURES for disease.
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So far we have learnt that Pole:
- Cannopt spell
- Cannot use the quote function
- Cannot grasp grammar
- Is incapable of piecing together a funny retort
- Is not exactly drowning in charm and charisma
...and this is Getbigs nutrition expert?
LOL, unbelievable.
Pole, kill yourself, seriously.
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So far we have learnt that Pole:
Cannopt spell
Pole, kill yourself, seriously.
EPIC FAIL
Jason
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EPIC FAIL
Jason
Hiya fat lad,
Killed anymore Iraqi babies for the Jews of late?
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Hiya fat lad,
Killed anymore Iraqi babies for the Jews of late?
No, but given ample opportunity I would again.
Jason
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No, but given ample opportunity I would again.
Jason
That doesnt surprise me;
After being owned by the lions of Iraq with bombs made from chlorox and mechano - and then having to use steroids to build the ungodly obese structure that is your most wobbly of world wonders - it comes as no surprise to observe you in your roll as quite the embittered child killer.
You filthy nonce.
You must be proud.
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That doesnt surprise me;
After being owned by the lions of Iraq with bombs made from chlorox and mechano - and then having to use steroids to build the ungodly obese structure that is your most wobbly of world wonders - it comes as no surprise to observe you in your roll as quite the embittered child killer.
You filthy nonce.
You must be proud.
Im sorry. Did I turn your dads head into a canoe? You seem bitter. Maybe a xanax for you?
Jason
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So far we have learnt that Pole:
- Cannopt spell
- Cannot use the quote function
- Cannot grasp grammar
- Is incapable of piecing together a funny retort
- Is not exactly drowning in charm and charisma
...and this is Getbigs nutrition expert?
LOL, unbelievable.
Pole, kill yourself, seriously.
HAHAH you weiner, your following me around getbig like a puppy. I own your mind, your post is straight up hilarious.
things we know about chocolate fizz
- he is a bottom twink
- follows other men around getbig stalking there posts
- gauges the "charm" and "charisma" of said men via the internet
- makes a spelling mistake in the process of trying to look smart
- defends his musclebear fatpanda at all costs
these are some observations i have made of you in this thread alone. I suppose if i viewed your post history i would find more homoerrogenous postings. How does it feel to be penetrated?