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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Deicide on October 03, 2008, 03:04:03 PM
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1945 plane crash
Crash by a U.S. Army B-25 bomber on July 28, 1945At 9:40 a.m. on Saturday, July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber, piloted in thick fog by Lieutenant Colonel William F. Smith, Jr., accidentally crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 79th and 80th floors, where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the side opposite the impact and fell on a nearby building; the other plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. Fourteen people were killed in the incident.[16][17] Elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver survived a plunge of 75 stories inside an elevator, which still stands as the Guinness World Record for the longest survived elevator fall recorded.[18] Despite the damage and loss of life, the building was open for business on many floors on the following Monday. The crash helped spur the passage of the long-pending Federal Tort Claims Act of 1946, as well as the insertion of retroactivity provisions in the law, allowing people to sue the government for the accident.[19]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Building
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3 buildings in history collapsed in the history of the world. There have been skyscrapers that have burned for over 30 hours and the shell of the building never came down...
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 1
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 2
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 7
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3 buildings in history collapsed in the history of the world. There have been skyscrapers that have burned for over 30 hours and the shell of the building never came down...
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 1
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 2
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 7
It is quite remarkable isn't it? ;D
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3 buildings in history collapsed in the history of the world. There have been skyscrapers that have burned for over 30 hours and the shell of the building never came down...
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 1
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 2
Sept 11 2001 World Trade Center 7
Where did u get ur degree in Structural Engineering? ::)
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Where did u get ur degree in Structural Engineering? ::)
What does that have to do with the fact that only 3 skyscrapers in history collapsed due to fire?
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1. Look at the size difference.
2. One was loaded with enough jet fuel to make a cross country flight.
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What was it that crashed into it in 1945?
A b-17?
::)
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B-25D Bomber
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Ah...but I thought it was the fire that brought the towers down and the planes were just a catalyst?
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We've covered this to death, to death. U guys have no idea what happened. U have no insight into what happened. Forget it. Piecing together facts from internet bulletin boards makes u neither expert nor insightful into the events of 911. For whatever reason u want to believe that something more had to happened on that day. I think its because life is to normal or something for some of u guys. Or becaues u've seen to many Hollywood movies. Or because u see the US as the bad guy in everything. Either way, for every idiot point for a conspiracy there is a logical point to dispute it.
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Ah...but I thought it was the fire that brought the towers down and the planes were just a catalyst?
Was the fire nearly as large? Was the impact nearly as strong? Was the amount of fuel nearly as much? Did the fuel burn nearly as hot?
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Where did it hit on the building?
Speed, angle, etc etc.......
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We've covered this to death, to death. U guys have no idea what happened. U have no insight into what happened. Forget it. Piecing together facts from internet bulletin boards makes u neither expert nor insightful into the events of 911. For whatever reason u want to believe that something more had to happened on that day. I think its because life is to normal or something for some of u guys. Or becaues u've seen to many Hollywood movies. Or because u see the US as the bad guy in everything. Either way, for every idiot point for a conspiracy there is a logical point to dispute it.
I think what differentiates you from many here is your blind loyalty to anything American. If you were ordered by the President to mow down hundreds of foreign civilians with a Gatling gun I am quite sure you would do it; to many in the world, America IS the bad guy; we impose our military presence on people and places that don't want us there and we threaten others with our 'military might'. It seems even you need a religion, which in your case in patriotism (blind loyalty to anything concerning the country of your coincidental birth).
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I think what differentiates you from many here is your blind loyalty to anything American. If you were ordered by the President to mow down hundreds of foreign civilians with a Gatling gun I am quite sure you would do it; to many in the world, America IS the bad guy; we impose our military presence on people and places that don't want us there and we threaten others with our 'military might'. It seems even you need a religion, which in your case in patriotism (blind loyalty to anything concerning the country of your coincidental birth).
What differenciates you from a rational thinking human bieng is that you think your own government planned the death of over 4000 people in order to start a war with a country when they forgot in their masterful plan to plant evidence leading back to that country.
This has been disproven so many times by so many organizations its rediculous. This is an insult to the people who were killed on those planes, the buildings, and the famlies affected by the deaths.
Saying that him not believeing in some BS conspiracy theory equates to him bieng capable of mowing down innocent people just underscores your ignorance and that of people who think like you do. You people are constatly reminding us how stupid we are when you are the ones who cannot accept reality and make up fairlytales because you cannot accept the truth.
Keep Bashing Americans, Keep bashing religion, keep bashing patriotism. Its great to know where you stand.
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What differenciates you from a rational thinking human bieng is that you think your own government planned the death of over 4000 people in order to start a war with a country when they forgot in their masterful plan to plant evidence leading back to that country.
This has been disproven so many times by so many organizations its rediculous. This is an insult to the people who were killed on those planes, the buildings, and the famlies affected by the deaths.
Saying that him not believeing in some BS conspiracy theory equates to him bieng capable of mowing down innocent people just underscores your ignorance and that of people who think like you do. You people are constatly reminding us how stupid we are when you are the ones who cannot accept reality and make up fairlytales because you cannot accept the truth.
Keep Bashing Americans, Keep bashing religion, keep bashing patriotism. Its great to know where you stand.
Do you misspell all those words on purpose? ???
Patriotism is the beginning of fascism. Pride in a geographical accident? No, I don't think so. You don't know Headhunter and his love of war. He kills for oil and enjoys it because he is a 'patriot', he enjoys killing for the American people.
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Do you misspell all those words on purpose? ???
Patriotism is the beginning of fascism. Pride in a geographical accident? No, I don't think so. You don't know Headhunter and his love of war. He kills for oil and enjoys it because he is a 'patriot', he enjoys killing for the American people.
If you are going to dog on my grammer you should copy and past that first part of your message in every reply to me because I type fast and with reckless abandon.
What is wrong with bieng proud of your country? You call the American Recolution a Geographical Accident? Do feel at all grateful for the men and women who have died throughout history for this country?
OR
are you from another country?
You guys think you are superiour to anyone who thinks differently than you. Its a bit Ironic.
I feel like im bieng a broken record but read this http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
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Do you misspell all those words on purpose? ???
Patriotism is the beginning of fascism. Pride in a geographical accident? No, I don't think so. You don't know Headhunter and his love of war. He kills for oil and enjoys it because he is a 'patriot', he enjoys killing for the American people.
thats right you are the guy who agrued with me that patriotism is bad... ::)
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thats right you are the guy who agrued with me that patriotism is bad... ::)
It is bad because it inevitably leads to selfrighteousness, a belief that anything done in the name of one's 'country' is justifiable and desirable and ultimately to fascism. Worst of all is its faulty logic; we are born in the countries we are born in due to coincidence and accident, things that no one rational man should be proud of. Pride should be felt for individual deeds, not those of long dead men who have nothing to do with you.
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It is bad because it inevitably leads to selfrighteousness, a belief that anything done in the name of one's 'country' is justifiable and desirable and ultimately to fascism. Worst of all is its faulty logic; we are born in the countries we are born in due to coincidence and accident, things that no one rational man should be proud of. Pride should be felt for individual deeds, not those of long dead men who have nothing to do with you.
LOL it also leads to unity and trying to make your country better when you see it doing something it shouldnt be. It not accident if your parents moved here or choose not to move away. They do have something to do with you their individual deeds lead to the freedoms and rights that we now enjoy and our individual deeds will ensure those rights and freedoms to our children.
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LOL it also leads to unity and trying to make your country better when you see it doing something it shouldnt be. It not accident if your parents moved here or choose not to move away. They do have something to do with you their individual deeds lead to the freedoms and rights that we now enjoy and our individual deeds will ensure those rights and freedoms to our children.
So invading other countries, military occupation and overspending billions of dollars are things making your country better? ???
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http://www.vt911.org/Jet%20fuel%20that%27s%20a%20good%20one.JPG
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granted the bomber was a much smaller plane. But, the wtc towers were also much larger, more modern buildings, in fact designed to have a commercial jet crashed into them.
even given that, who knows. what about wtc7 though????? the only modern skyscraper to have ever collapsed from fire alone, in a matter of hours no less.
also the Bank of america building in los angeles, an 850 ft skyscraper, sustained a major fire a while back about halfway up. something like 3-4 entire floors burned for like 2 days straight. the result? a burned out, beat up section, but a standing tower whose structural integrity was never in danger of collapsing.
again who knows but it certainly seems a bit strange
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So invading other countries, military occupation and overspending billions of dollars are things making your country better? ???
no you numbnut but its love for your country that makes you care about these thing and invading other countries to protect yourself is not a bad thing. If everybody had the mindset like you did there would be no coperation no helping each other out, shitty world to live in if you ask me.
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no you numbnut but its love for your country that makes you care about these thing and invading other countries to protect yourself is not a bad thing. If everybody had the mindset like you did there would be no coperation no helping each other out, shitty world to live in if you ask me.
No social programs... You dislike social programs right?
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No social programs... You dislike social programs right?
LOL what? i dont dislike all social programs i have a deep dislike on how some of the social programs we have now are run though.
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LOL what? i dont dislike all social programs i have a deep dislike on how some of the social programs we have now are run though.
I see...
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Where did u get ur degree in Structural Engineering? ::)
Dont need to have a degree to look up facts.
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granted the bomber was a much smaller plane. But, the wtc towers were also much larger, more modern buildings, in fact designed to have a commercial jet crashed into them.
even given that, who knows. what about wtc7 though????? the only modern skyscraper to have ever collapsed from fire alone, in a matter of hours no less.
also the Bank of america building in los angeles, an 850 ft skyscraper, sustained a major fire a while back about halfway up. something like 3-4 entire floors burned for like 2 days straight. the result? a burned out, beat up section, but a standing tower whose structural integrity was never in danger of collapsing.
again who knows but it certainly seems a bit strange
WTC7
Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.
According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
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Dont need to have a degree to look up facts.
LOL what makes you think they are facts?
not to be a dick but you never gave proof that the government created any of those diseases i gave to you...
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"Melted" Steel
Claim: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."
FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."
"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.
But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.
"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."
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1. Look at the size difference.
2. One was loaded with enough jet fuel to make a cross country flight.
Facts don't lie.
Jet Fuel comes from kerosene. Kerosene burns up in seconds and burns at a way lower temp than any fire that could melt steel, hence why it can be used and burned in STEEL Jet Engines. That explosion when it crashed most likely burned up a significant amount of it.
Why is it that the world trade centers all collapse. First Steel Structure buildings in history to come down from fire. They burn for a couple hours and wamo... Trade Center 7 has no crash nada and some small fires in it that could be contained said the NY Fire Chief and all of a sudden it comes down in 8 seconds... in perfect form just like a controlled demolition...
Mr Popular Mechanics who tried PWNING ME, here is evidence of them Doctoring WT7 Photos... Real CREDIBLE rightttttt
Buildings dont fall in on themselves in less it is a controlled demolition... FACT... they come down slowly with huge chunks, not blown to DUST...
Empire states building burns for HOURS upon HOURS and it didnt even damage the structure...
There are over 10 monsterous skyscrapers that have been on fire. EXAMPLE... Winsor building in Madrid Span burning for over 30 hours... did it collapse? NOPE
Did the Empire states building collapse? NOPE
No matter how anyone tries to argue it, its and scientificly impossible for those buildings to come down from fire. the fires were at the TOP of the buildings even if it did weaken the steel, law of Gravity would not have those buildings coming down in free fall speed, every floor that collapsed would have slowed it down... thats a SCIENTIFIC FACT.
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You just owned yourself dude. Im sorry you cant read.
Its easy just sound out the letters, then put the words together to form sentences. Once you get that far go ahead and read what I just posted.
If you dont see any truth in what I posted, maybe we can go Bigfoot huntin or spotlighting for nessie later. ;D
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Any of you get the feeling someone opened a can of CT worms? ;D
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Any of you get the feeling someone opened a can of CT worms? ;D
lol this dude has more delusional fantasies than courtney cox
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lol this dude has more delusional fantasies than courtney cox
hehehehehehehehe
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I believe this picture truly shows how hot jet fuel burns...
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/woman_wtc.jpg
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Oh f**k....not another CT'er. Maybe you 240 and Cynthia McKinny can get together for some beers!
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Don't forget Mark Cuban and 100's of reputable engineers. :D
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Silverstein admitted they demolished the building. When were the explosive charges laid?
Certainly not in the chaos of the day? So when, ...and why?
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Oh f**k....not another CT'er. Maybe you 240 and Cynthia McKinny can get together for some beers!
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Im not a big CT. I guess people are that delusional. I remember reading a poll an overwhelming amount of Americans believed 9-11 was a inside job. Anytime one brings up legitemate questions, they get called a nut, a CT, and ignored. THATS part of the Brainwashing, having people not think and when others think to speak out against them to discredit what they are saying. Gov Brain washing 101, kinda like religuous brainwashing believing in the invisible man thats not there...
Agagin WATCH the documentary. There are facts that you cant deny. Then come back and have an intelligent conversation about it.
I think its funny guys like coach WONT watch it, but have a opinion on it...
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The UN head of human rights abuses wanted a new 911 investigation. Japan and other nations are quietly doing their own interviews as well. Everybody knows the score.
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I think its funny guys like coach WONT watch it, but have a opinion on it...
For years, Bill O Reilly would debate these documentaries. Then something happened. They all started getting very factual, and interviews with hundreds of physicists and mechanical engineers who all said the same thing - buildings don't fall like that.
Now, BillO says it's completely unAmerican to even question the official story or view such videos. This is because every time a republican watches some of the newes videos, he has a "WTF" moment and realizes it's impossible for buildings to fall that way as they did. Then, you see reporters grilling Rummy for days "Where is the pentagon plane, sir? Where are the parts? Jet fuel and metal doesn't vaporize, sir". Rummy just said it's unAmerican to question it as well.
Of course, Obama has said there are many interesting unanswered Qs of 911 and that he's not against looking into it. Biden has said he's furious that Pakistan funded Muhammad Atta and that the ties of those responsible go way beyond 19 pricks with knives.
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Im not a big CT. I guess people are that delusional. I remember reading a poll an overwhelming amount of Americans believed 9-11 was a inside job. Anytime one brings up legitemate questions, they get called a nut, a CT, and ignored. THATS part of the Brainwashing, having people not think and when others think to speak out against them to discredit what they are saying. Gov Brain washing 101, kinda like religuous brainwashing believing in the invisible man thats not there...
yet you believe in this shit and that the government is responsible for most of all deadly dieseases
LOL give me this poll so i can rip the shit apart for you and educate you on how retarted and bias polls are, you just ask your fellow nut 240 and he will tell you.
LOL LOL LOL ::)
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tony,
Google 'zogby 9/11 poll'
There have been a lot of them. 67% disbelieve the official story, I recall. And 49% of NYers call inside job?
Read about it. You can rip them apart all you'd like.
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LOL come on dude i found nothing about the parameter of this polling...also it says that part of the scope of the poll was whether or not ppl thought they had been mislead on iraq having a part in 9/11...you dont think that this may have warranted more ppl to say yes and that this may have influenced the outcome... ::) come the fuk on...
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Please read
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
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Please read
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
Sweet. A humor page created by a comedian.
I guess we can take the writings of hundreds of people with phds, and throw them out the window. We have a 'funnny' that works in place of science.
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Sweet. A humor page created by a comedian.
I guess we can take the writings of hundreds of people with phds, and throw them out the window. We have a 'funnny' that works in place of science.
Yep....pretty much. A PHD doesn't always get you commonsense.
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Silverstein admitted they demolished the building. When were the explosive charges laid?
Certainly not in the chaos of the day? So when, ...and why?
No he didn't, stop trying to spin shit. ;) ;D
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tony,
Google 'zogby 9/11 poll'
There have been a lot of them. 67% disbelieve the official story, I recall. And 49% of NYers call inside job?
Read about it. You can rip them apart all you'd like.
It's meaningless what people think. Most people are plain stupid. This is a poll taken in a country that produces high school graduates that 75% of which can't competently tell you where japan is located, make reality shows number 1, and vote based on ideology and not the issues.
This is the same crowd that believes in the JFK conspiracy but can't tell you any real pertinent facts about the whole thing.
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Im not a big CT. I guess people are that delusional. I remember reading a poll an overwhelming amount of Americans believed 9-11 was a inside job. Anytime one brings up legitemate questions, they get called a nut, a CT, and ignored. THATS part of the Brainwashing, having people not think and when others think to speak out against them to discredit what they are saying. Gov Brain washing 101, kinda like religuous brainwashing believing in the invisible man thats not there...
Agagin WATCH the documentary. There are facts that you cant deny. Then come back and have an intelligent conversation about it.
I think its funny guys like coach WONT watch it, but have a opinion on it...
What facts?
Like how bread is present in the intestinal tracts of 98% of homicide victims?
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What facts?
Like how bread is present in the intestinal tracts of 98% of homicide victims?
:-\
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Yep....pretty much. A PHD doesn't always get you commonsense.
I didn't know physics was based on common sense.
i'll call the scientists tomorrow and let them know their use of data is highly flawed.