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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 24KT on April 18, 2009, 08:26:49 PM
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Palin's father: Levi not helping pay for baby care
The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 14, 2009; 6:02 PM
ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's father is taking the 19-year-old father of her grandson to task for not helping to pay for the baby's care.
In the issue of Us Weekly magazine to be released Friday, Chuck Heath says Levi Johnston is capitalizing on national interviews but not spending money on Tripp, the nearly 4-month-old son of Johnston and Bristol Palin, the governor's 18-year-old daughter.
Heath says he wishes Johnston would "take some of this money he's making and buy some diapers with it."
The unemployed Johnston has said he wasn't paid for appearances on national television last week, when he complained the Palin family was limiting his access to Tripp since the couple broke up. A message left at Johnston's Wasilla home wasn't immediately returned.
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Is anyone here just the least bit teensy tweensy surprised? Anyone at all?
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why should we even care about this at this point?
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See,
tony and others get all miffed when people post stories making Palin look bad for their entertainment...
But think about this...
What in the world is Palin's dad doing talking to the media about family affairs? I mean, if/when she is president, will her dad still be talking to the press about family drama? She's Governor now. you'd think a governor's immediate family would have the sense to not call up US Magazine and do an interview about private affairs.
And please, stop accusing ppl of drudging her up. She's NOT trying to keep a low profile. She's desperate to remain in the news, and allows crap like this to happen in order to stay in the conversation.
it's pathetic. I want the repub party to deliver a dignified candidate. Don't you?
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Let me make sure I understand... He doesn't make anything and her mom is the governor of a State and doesn't believe in planned parenthood... So she thinks he should be responsible for the baby's care when the baby obviously will never want for anything already and he had no say as to whether or not the baby should be born.
Well, that's a fine how dee do.
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Let me make sure I understand... He doesn't make anything and her mom is the governor of a State and doesn't believe in planned parenthood... So she thinks he should be responsible for the baby's care when the baby obviously will never want for anything already and he had no say as to whether or not the baby should be born.
Well, that's a fine how dee do.
According to Grandpa Heath, he's capitalyzing off national interviews. Odd Has anyone read interviews with him?
As for any choice he had vis-a-vis the baby, ...he made it when he chose to lay down with Bristol.
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See,
tony and others get all miffed when people post stories making Palin look bad for their entertainment...
But think about this...
What in the world is Palin's dad doing talking to the media about family affairs? I mean, if/when she is president, will her dad still be talking to the press about family drama? She's Governor now. you'd think a governor's immediate family would have the sense to not call up US Magazine and do an interview about private affairs.
And please, stop accusing ppl of drudging her up. She's NOT trying to keep a low profile. She's desperate to remain in the news, and allows crap like this to happen in order to stay in the conversation.
it's pathetic. I want the repub party to deliver a dignified candidate. Don't you?
Allows it?? I'd bet good money there's an entire team working like the dickens round the clock trying to keep her as a topic of conversation. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't start using the National Enquirer next while trying to maintain a suitable distance. If they get really, really desperate, there could be an episode of Springer in their future.
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why should we even care about this at this point?
We don't.
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See,
tony and others get all miffed when people post stories making Palin look bad for their entertainment...
But think about this...
What in the world is Palin's dad doing talking to the media about family affairs? I mean, if/when she is president, will her dad still be talking to the press about family drama? She's Governor now. you'd think a governor's immediate family would have the sense to not call up US Magazine and do an interview about private affairs.
And please, stop accusing ppl of drudging her up. She's NOT trying to keep a low profile. She's desperate to remain in the news, and allows crap like this to happen in order to stay in the conversation.
it's pathetic. I want the repub party to deliver a dignified candidate. Don't you?
I think I just effectively got put down :)
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According to Grandpa Heath, he's capitalyzing off national interviews. Odd Has anyone read interviews with him?
As for any choice he had vis-a-vis the baby, ...he made it when he chose to lay down with Bristol.
I disagree, if she wanted to go get an abortion, she could do it... He couldn't make her keep it... he has no say in whether or not the baby is birthed or not... The woman gets all of the say.
I think that is bonk.
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See,
tony and others get all miffed when people post stories making Palin look bad for their entertainment...
Again dip shit, and i mean that in all sincerity b/c you are a fuking retard, i dont care about palin...only your unhealthy obsession with her.
why not post ever ignorant thread about pelosi she is 10x more important dont you agree? she gives more then enough material but you choose palin why is that?
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I disagree, if she wanted to go get an abortion, she could do it... He couldn't make her keep it... he has no say in whether or not the baby is birthed or not... The woman gets all of the say.
I think that is bonk.
That's why I said he had his say when he chose to lay down with her. That's the only choice he had control over, and he made the wrong one. Everything else is now beyond his control. He should have kept it zipped.
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your unhealthy obsession with her.
I have a healthy obsession for her :P
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Again dip shit, and i mean that in all sincerity b/c you are a fuking retard, i dont care about palin...only your unhealthy obsession with her.
why not post ever ignorant thread about pelosi she is 10x more important dont you agree? she gives more then enough material but you choose palin why is that?
Ever stopped to think that what you refer to as "an unhealthy obsession" is merely a compassionate soul reaching out to the desperate? Why should he post about Pelosi? Everyone covers her. Right about now, Palin is probably pulling her hair out screaming "Nancy Nancy Nancy, ...It's always Nancy. What about me?!" >:( Poor Palin is flailing away drowning in a sea of irrelevance, ...trying to get noticed, ...trying to stay in people's minds, ...trying to extend that 15 minutes of fame... 240 is just reaching out. Giving her a helping hand. Why do you hate it when someone shows compassion to a Conservative? Do you think Palin appreciates 240? You betcha by golly! :D
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The only thing more laughable than this woman's entire campaign and attention getting methods are the dimwits that attempt to defend her and deflect what common logic and reason already reveal with each passing day.
She's an idiot and a joke who can't even see the hypocrisy of karma coming back to run over her in a bus.
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I want the repubs to choose an awesome candidate for 2012.
All Americans should. This way, no matter who wins, American wins.
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I have a healthy obsession for her :P
LOL i might as well but ours doesnt take the form of posting threads about her...
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Ever stopped to think that what you refer to as "an unhealthy obsession" is merely a compassionate soul reaching out to the desperate? Why should he post about Pelosi? Everyone covers her. Right about now, Palin is probably pulling her hair out screaming "Nancy Nancy Nancy, ...It's always Nancy. What about me?!" >:( Poor Palin is flailing away drowning in a sea of irrelevance, ...trying to get noticed, ...trying to stay in people's minds, ...trying to extend that 15 minutes of fame... 240 is just reaching out. Giving her a helping hand. Why do you hate it when someone shows compassion to a Conservative? Do you think Palin appreciates 240? You betcha by golly! :D
LOL yes how could i have missed it, he is just caring soul goodness gracious slap me ive been so blind.
I didnt see one thread about pelosi's ignorant comments about the tax day tea parties, did you? did you even hear what she said?
Whats funny is that 240 says he doesnt like her, he says that he wants the reps to put up a strong candidate next election but he does his best to keep palin relevant.
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This compares to the entire kennedy family how??
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Whats funny is that 240 says he doesnt like her, he says that he wants the reps to put up a strong candidate next election but he does his best to keep palin relevant.
nah, i do my best to remind ppl she isn't the best repub to lead the party.
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nah, i do my best to remind ppl she isn't the best repub to lead the party.
LOL sure you are hoss
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LOL sure you are hoss
all arguing aside, we can agree on one thing. We want two very skilled, very qualified ppl running for president, right?
I thought mccain might actually change some things up in office for the better. However the fact he was 72 and palin was the backup was terrifying. Thanking the president of france for complimenting her PORNO work? I mean, really?
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all arguing aside, we can agree on one thing. We want two very skilled, very qualified ppl running for president, right?
I thought mccain might actually change some things up in office for the better. However the fact he was 72 and palin was the backup was terrifying. Thanking the president of france for complimenting her PORNO work? I mean, really?
Totally agree I didnt like mccain either i never thought palin was a good choice, I like her personally but not as VP
This election for me was like being stuck between a hard spot and a rock
LOL by that logic barry shouldnt have been voted in either he has that jack ass biden behind him...Lord only knows that he would do given the chance.
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Totally agree I didnt like mccain either i never thought palin was a good choice, I like her personally but not as VP
This election for me was like being stuck between a hard spot and a rock
LOL by that logic barry shouldnt have been voted in either he has that jack ass biden behind him...Lord only knows that he would do given the chance.
hilary and wes clark would have been a far stronger Dem ticket.
He only got in because the WAR was the big issue during primary season. if the economy had crashed a few months earlier, it would have been Mitt vs Hilary/Dodd in the general election
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hilary and wes clark would have been a far stronger Dem ticket.
He only got in because the WAR was the big issue during primary season. if the economy had crashed a few months earlier, it would have been Mitt vs Hilary/Dodd in the general election
I would have had a tough decision if hilary had been running against mccain.
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Let me make sure I understand... He doesn't make anything and her mom is the governor of a State and doesn't believe in planned parenthood... So she thinks he should be responsible for the baby's care when the baby obviously will never want for anything already and he had no say as to whether or not the baby should be born.
Well, that's a fine how dee do.
HOW DARE GOV. PALIN DEMAND THAT THIS "MAN" ACTUALLY TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN CHILD!!!
Levi should have thought about all that, before he decided to get some booty from Bristol.
It amazes me that some people participate in the reproductive process then ACTUALLY ACT SURPRISED, when it works and they end up with children.
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HOW DARE GOV. PALIN DEMAND THAT THIS "MAN" ACTUALLY TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN CHILD!!!
Levi should have thought about all that, before he decided to get some booty from Bristol.
It amazes me that some people participate in the reproductive process then ACTUALLY ACT SURPRISED, when it works and they end up with children.
Dude... Do you realize what child support entails?
Obviously not.
They take both parents income and then do some math... Take into account the living environment and all of the above, do some more math.
Because she lives with her mom, and neither of them have jobs... His percentage of child support won't be much.
I'd bet less than 100 bucks a month.
You think that's a big deal to a woman who lives with her mom in a Governors mansion?
Ok... Sure... let him pay the 50 bucks a month he'd owe... You don't really get it do you.
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Actually child support is a bit more complicated than that.
It doesn't matter how much you make. It all depends on what is judged "fair" in terms of expenses for weekly support of the said child. If weekly expenses are estimated at $85 per week, that is what you pay, no matter if you make that much or not. If you can't afford it, you get a better job or another job until you can.
Because Bristol is living with her parents and not working is not a plus for him. Only a negative. Because now she will claim that she has to pay for day care while she finishes school. She will most likely move out and hit him with an extra percentage to cover. And so on...
When he complains she won't let him take the baby anywhere, I have no sympathy for him. He hasn't earned it. Legally she doesn't even have to let him set eyes on the child. He wants to take the baby away to other places, let him do it properly.
First he has to go through the process of legitimation of the child. (forgot what the proper legal term for this was.) Just having his name on the birth certificate as the father isn't good enough. He has to first legitimately establish himself as the father. (Since they were not married this is required)
Second step is he has to go to court and request visitation rights. Unless of course both parties agree outside of the court what is proper and fair and then have a judge rule on it without the bother of going through a trial and such. Once he gets visitation rights she can't do anything to stop him outside of further legal action.
Third, because of #2 above, he is going to have to pay child support. If he doesn't want to pay child support then he won't get visitation rights. Catch 22 but it will make him man up and take responsibility.
For once, I agree with Palin for demanding he do this. Dude is like a fucktard on tv going on and on about how he isn't allowed to do anything when he doesn't even have any legal right to do so.
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Dude... Do you realize what child support entails?
Obviously not.
They take both parents income and then do some math... Take into account the living environment and all of the above, do some more math.
Because she lives with her mom, and neither of them have jobs... His percentage of child support won't be much.
I'd bet less than 100 bucks a month.
You think that's a big deal to a woman who lives with her mom in a Governors mansion?
Ok... Sure... let him pay the 50 bucks a month he'd owe... You don't really get it do you.
Dude!! I'm married and a father of three. I know FIRSTHAND the expense of childcare.
It doesn't matter how much money Gov. Palin makes. That ain't Gov. Palin's child; it's LEVI'S child, pure and simple.
It's called EMPLOYMENT. He needs to get off his blessed assurance and take care of his child. Cut grass; flip burgers; do telemarketing; something.
The income of his child's maternal grandmother doesn't abdicate him of his responsibiltiy one bit.
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levi said he gets no overnight visits or time unsupervised.
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levi said he gets no overnight visits or time unsupervised.
So why would he pay child support?
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So why would he pay child support?
it's his child. so he should.
But then again, most of the time he'd get weekends and 2 weeks of summer visitation annual.
is it fair to make the kid pay when he isn't allowed to have the child overnight? Or, did they take that away because he didn't pay? He said he's never been allowed. Hmmm
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So why would he pay child support?
seriously man?
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seriously man?
Yes seriously... Men have ZERO rights when it comes to kids in today's society and I find it appalling.
So YES, I am dead serious... If a dad gets no say, then he shouldn't have to pay. It's completely different if he's trying to run out, but if he's trying to be involved, as Levi says he is, then I don't think he should have to pay a dime.
If they want to keep the baby away from him, then fuck them.
He should sue the shit out of them for everything those neo-cooks have.
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Yes seriously... Men have ZERO rights when it comes to kids in today's society and I find it appalling.
look, the law is simple, you have a kid, you put in your share help out. Now what the palins are doing is bs. How can they do that? >:(
My dad barely(to put it lightly) paid is share of child support for me and my 2 sisters. He believed tht if we didt live with him, he shouldnt have to pay squat. <<<I AGREE HERE. BUT its the law, now as a result of him being a bum...his social security is getting hit. He knew this before hand...youre not gonna change the law by bitching about it. Pay for yor kid or suffer down the road.
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Of course this deadbeat should support his kid. Any "man" who has to be forced by the courts to support his child is a straight up punk.
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Of course this deadbeat should support his kid. Any "man" who has to be forced by the courts to support his child is a straight up punk.
Dude, you're accusing palin of being a poor judge of character.
She was suckered into proudly endorsing an engagement between this "punk" as you put it, with her own daughter.
(You can say she didn't know until later that he was a deadbeat... in which case we have to assume she saw the myspace underage drinking pics and unprotected sex with her underage daughter... and decided he was a worthy suitor then)
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Dude, you're accusing palin of being a poor judge of character.
She was suckered into proudly endorsing an engagement between this "punk" as you put it, with her own daughter.
(You can say she didn't know until later that he was a deadbeat... in which case we have to assume she saw the myspace underage drinking pics and unprotected sex with her underage daughter... and decided he was a worthy suitor then)
Actually I'm just questioning the manhood of deadbeat dads. But don't let that stop you from just making stuff up, as you routinely do.
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Yes seriously... Men have ZERO rights when it comes to kids in today's society and I find it appalling.
So YES, I am dead serious... If a dad gets no say, then he shouldn't have to pay. It's completely different if he's trying to run out, but if he's trying to be involved, as Levi says he is, then I don't think he should have to pay a dime.
If they want to keep the baby away from him, then fuck them.
He should sue the shit out of them for everything those neo-cooks have.
actually apart from the regular ignorant bi partisan shit spewed in this post i agree with holmes...
I dont think guys should have the right to not pay child support but they should pay less if its made clear through legal documents that the guy didnt want the women to have the baby. Sorry fellas the way guys get treated in these situations isnt fair, a women can get an abortion even if the man doesnt want one, why cant the man choose to have nothing to do with the child? Now being that is a child and not a non living entity some assistance should be given but it should be severly less if the guy doesnt want it...Personal responsibility is a different at times i think if this were allowed it would influence women to use more birth control and take matters into their own hands.
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actually apart from the regular ignorant bi partisan shit spewed in this post i agree with holmes...
I dont think guys should have the right to not pay child support but they should pay less if its made clear through legal documents that the guy didnt want the women to have the baby. Sorry fellas the way guys get treated in these situations isnt fair, a women can get an abortion even if the man doesnt want one, why cant the man choose to have nothing to do with the child? Now being that is a child and not a non living entity some assistance should be given but it should be severly less if the guy doesnt want it...Personal responsibility is a different at times i think if this were allowed it would influence women to use more birth control and take matters into their own hands.
I really disagree tony. If a man doesn't want to have a baby he shouldn't have sex. Once a man chooses to do the deed, he accepts the consequences of his actions, which include making a baby. That's what personal responsibility is all about.
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I really disagree tony. If a man doesn't want to have a baby he shouldn't have sex. Once a man chooses to do the deed, he accepts the consequences of his actions, which include making a baby. That's what personal responsibility is all about.
yeah i gotta agree with this.
males know how society works. Things aren't fair to men, but then again we don't have to carry the baby for 9 months either.
if you have sex, you gotta be ready to deal with the consequences.
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I really disagree tony. If a man doesn't want to have a baby he shouldn't have sex. Once a man chooses to do the deed, he accepts the consequences of his actions, which include making a baby. That's what personal responsibility is all about.
then abortion shouldnt be allowed at all under those circumstances...women dont make the same choice? they do make the same choice fact of the matter is that women have options and men dont.
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yeah i gotta agree with this.
males know how society works. Things aren't fair to men, but then again we don't have to carry the baby for 9 months either.
if you have sex, you gotta be ready to deal with the consequences.
I hope you are pro life, although i gotta say i wouldnt be suprised if you werent...
then abortion shouldnt be allowed at all under those circumstances...women dont make the same choice? they do make the same choice fact of the matter is that women have options and men dont.
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I hope you are pro life, although i gotta say i wouldnt be suprised if you werent...
I am.
I'm also pro-gun, anti-welfare, and most other repub/conservative domestic positions. I'm also all for the wars, if it means the US gets bases and oil in order to preserve our way of life.
Of course, since I won't slurp the 2008 mccain/palin ticket, you consider me a lib. It's a shame you put me and that scumbag sarandon and others in the same column. You're misinformed.
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hey tony hows that oxygenated water workin out for ya :D
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then abortion shouldnt be allowed at all under those circumstances...women dont make the same choice? they do make the same choice fact of the matter is that women have options and men dont.
As much as I tend to be pro-choice... I agree... If it's this kind of circumstance. Guys have ZERO rights when it comes to what happens after the conception.
For those people that say "he chose to sleep with her". Well whoop dee doo... She chose to sleep with him too, but after it's all said and done... She has MORE rights then he does... How is that at all respective of "equality" in America?
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Yes seriously... Men have ZERO rights when it comes to kids in today's society and I find it appalling.
So YES, I am dead serious... If a dad gets no say, then he shouldn't have to pay. It's completely different if he's trying to run out, but if he's trying to be involved, as Levi says he is, then I don't think he should have to pay a dime.
If they want to keep the baby away from him, then fuck them.
He should sue the shit out of them for everything those neo-cooks have.
Tu, child support is just that... support of the child. It's not paid access. You make a kid, ...you support it. Period.
Whether you have access to it, or a say in how they're raised. It works both ways whether you're a man or a woman.
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I am.
I'm also pro-gun, anti-welfare, and most other repub/conservative domestic positions. I'm also all for the wars, if it means the US gets bases and oil in order to preserve our way of life.
Of course, since I won't slurp the 2008 mccain/palin ticket, you consider me a lib. It's a shame you put me and that scumbag sarandon and others in the same column. You're misinformed.
LOL a pro gun advocate who calls ppl who bought guns, gun nuts? ::) an anti welfare advocate that campaigned for a guy who is trying to grow the welfare and other social programs? ::) A pro war advocate that criticized bush for years about iraq? ::) Your actions speak much much louder then your words 240, honestly bro i wouldnt want you on the conservative side of things just stay on the left bro.
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to be crude, there are a lot of things you can do sexually which don't lead to a baby.
if you get a girl pregnant, you are highly irresponsible.
from the myspace pics showing underage drinking, we can see levi was irresponsible.
the worlds ain't fair when it comes to parenting, but you know that going in.
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Tu, child support is just that... support of the child. It's not paid access. You make a kid, ...you support it. Period.
Whether you have access to it, or a say in how they're raised. It works both ways whether you're a man or a woman.
I don't know what planet you live on... but the legal system does not work "both ways".
Child support is directly related to custody which is NEVER equal.
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hey tony hows that oxygenated water workin out for ya :D
LOL never tried it, i did video myself squating 405 at around 198 probably a little lower actually naturally, hows your working out going? ;)
As much as I tend to be pro-choice... I agree... If it's this kind of circumstance. Guys have ZERO rights when it comes to what happens after the conception.
For those people that say "he chose to sleep with her". Well whoop dee doo... She chose to sleep with him too, but after it's all said and done... She has MORE rights then he does... How is that at all respective of "equality" in America?
exactly another double standard
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to be crude, there are a lot of things you can do sexually which don't lead to a baby.
if you get a girl pregnant, you are highly irresponsible.
from the myspace pics showing underage drinking, we can see levi was irresponsible.
the worlds ain't fair when it comes to parenting, but you know that going in.
not YOU, its THEY and you dont seem to understand the women is just as responsible but she gets all the options.
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As much as I tend to be pro-choice... I agree... If it's this kind of circumstance. Guys have ZERO rights when it comes to what happens after the conception.
That's why it's soooo important to choose wisely PRE-conception.
For those people that say "he chose to sleep with her". Well whoop dee doo... She chose to sleep with him too, but after it's all said and done... She has MORE rights then he does... How is that at all respective of "equality" in America?
There is no equality, ...and there never will be... not as long as SHE is the one with the uterus that houses and feeds, and carries the child for 9 months, then gives birth to it. Find a way for a man to carry a child to term, then give birth, ...and you might have a chance at providing men with more say POST-conception. Until then, nothing changes.
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LOL a pro gun advocate who calls ppl who bought guns, gun nuts? ::) an anti welfare advocate that campaigned for a guy who is trying to grow the welfare and other social programs? ::) A pro war advocate that criticized bush for years about iraq? ::) Your actions speak much much louder then your words 240, honestly bro i wouldnt want you on the conservative side of things just stay on the left bro.
people who paid outrageous gun prices in 2009 to buy shit that was 40% cheaper a year earlier = idiots.
people who want welfare but won't work = idiots.
people who believe and regurgitate "we're only in iraq to help the iraqis, not for oil" = idiots.
people who said Palin was qualified = idiots.
people who believe 100% of the 911 story = idiots.
people who don't think bush lied every day of his presidency = idiots.
I never 'campaigned' for obama, but i recognize the need to spend 4 years fixing our domestic mess before the dollar crashes. bush could have strengthened the dollar beyond belief. instead he chose to borrow 5 tril and put obama in a shitty hole with tumbling employment.
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not YOU, its THEY and you dont seem to understand the women is just as responsible but she gets all the options.
Exactly... It's always "the guys" fault she gets knocked up.
It's total crap.
That's why it's soooo important to choose wisely PRE-conception.
There is no equality, ...and there never will be... not as long as SHE is the one with the uterus that houses and feeds, and carries the child for 9 months, then gives birth to it. Find a way for a man to carry a child to term, then give birth, ...and you might have a chance at providing men with more say POST-conception. Until then, nothing changes.
Why? It's not the man's fault he doesn't carry it... It's nature... Ask any man and they would gladly carry the kid for 9 months and birth it if it meant the female had to pay for the child for the rest of his / her life.
Again... It's bullshit and it shows that women don't want equality in the world... They want special treatment and the pussies around the globe give it to them.
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LOL never tried it, i did video myself squating 405 at around 198 probably a little lower actually naturally, hows your working out going? ;)
i know people who bench 405 at 200 pounds, nice low top chucks btw hahah!
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I don't know what planet you live on... but the legal system does not work "both ways".
Child support is directly related to custody which is NEVER equal.
I live in the same world you do. It's also the same world Coach does (legislatively speaking anyway)
Doesn't he have custody, as well as an order of child support from one of his ex-wifes?
I know plenty of men who have primary custody of their kids. It doesn't always go to the mother.
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i know people who bench 405 at 200 pounds, nice low top chucks btw hahah!
hahah thanks, well seeing as i dont really squat i feel its pretty good, i think if i hadnt hurt my shoulder id be around 400 on bench right now and again im 100% natural...again hows YOUR working out going? dont worry ill get a 450+ dead lift vid for you this week too(in the low top chucks of course)
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Exactly... It's always "the guys" fault she gets knocked up.
It's total crap.
Why? It's not the man's fault he doesn't carry it... It's nature... Ask any man and they would gladly carry the kid for 9 months and birth it if it meant the female had to pay for the child for the rest of his / her life.
Again... It's bullshit and it shows that women don't want equality in the world... They want special treatment and the pussies around the globe give it to them.
Aren't you overstating things a bit? You don't know any man who has custody of his kids? I do. You haven't heard of a man paying a "fair" amount of child support? I have. That doesn't mean the system always gets it right, but so it never works is inaccurate.
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it usually always goes to the mother if she has the means to take care of it. If both parents have a stable situation at home...99% of the time the mother gets custody
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Exactly... It's always "the guys" fault she gets knocked up.
It's total crap.
Why? It's not the man's fault he doesn't carry it... It's nature... Ask any man and they would gladly carry the kid for 9 months and birth it if it meant the female had to pay for the child for the rest of his / her life.
Again... It's bullshit and it shows that women don't want equality in the world... They want special treatment and the pussies around the globe give it to them.
"The fault dear Brutus is not in our stars, ...it's in ourselves" -- some old dead Greek guy. :P
Sounds to me like your argument is with Mother Nature. Take it up with her. ;)
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I live in the same world you do. It's also the same world Coach does (legislatively speaking anyway)
Doesn't he have custody, as well as an order of child support from one of his ex-wifes?
I know plenty of men who have primary custody of their kids. It doesn't always go to the mother.
Aren't you overstating things a bit? You don't know any man who has custody of his kids? I do. You haven't heard of a man paying a "fair" amount of child support? I have. That doesn't mean the system always gets it right, but so it never works is inaccurate.
Beach, you can read this too, since you decided I was "over stating" things.
http://alexgrim.com/?a=Reform_Child_Support
Women get awarded custody 90.1 percent of the time.
Men get awarded child support 22.9 percent of the time... Women get it 41.6 percent of the time... Almost double.
Of JOINT custody hearings women get child support a whopping 93.6% of the time.
You can look at the site, but it's all true... women who get custody and child support work less while fathers who get custody work more to sustain the children.
Bottom line, child support is extortion.
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"The fault dear Brutus is not in our stars, ...it's in ourselves" -- some old dead Greek guy. :P
Sounds to me like your argument is with Mother Nature. Take it up with her. ;)
jag the fact that the women carries the baby has nothing to do with the fact that women have all the options and men have none. How do you not understand that and how could you for a second think its fair?
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"The fault dear Brutus is not in our stars, ...it's in ourselves" -- some old dead Greek guy. :P
Sounds to me like your argument is with Mother Nature. Take it up with her. ;)
No, it's with the system... because the system is biased.
You, being a woman who wants special treatment are of course going to side with it... I would expect nothing less, but don't act like you're just being unbiased... The statistics are on my side... Not yours.
Yours is simple bias.
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Beach, you can read this too, since you decided I was "over stating" things.
http://alexgrim.com/?a=Reform_Child_Support
Women get awarded custody 90.1 percent of the time.
Men get awarded child support 22.9 percent of the time... Women get it 41.6 percent of the time... Almost double.
Of JOINT custody hearings women get child support a whopping 93.6% of the time.
You can look at the site, but it's all true... women who get custody and child support work less while fathers who get custody work more to sustain the children.
Bottom line, child support is extortion.
Tu I started reading, but I stopped when I got here: "Mothers make more money on average than fathers per year now . . . ." This can't be true?
I didn't see any sources. Where did they get their information? Did they take into account full-time moms who get custody?
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Tu I started reading, but I stopped when I got here: "Mothers make more money on average than fathers per year now . . . ." This can't be true?
I didn't see any sources. Where did they get their information? Did they take into account full-time moms who get custody?
Why the hell should a full time mom get custody?
She needs to get her ass to work.
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Why the hell should a full time mom get custody?
She needs to get her ass to work.
What about the commentary you posted? It doesn't sound very credible. Do you believe men make more money than women?
I don't think a full-time mom should automatically get custody, but I can certainly understand why she would more often than not, particularly if she's breast feeding.
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What about the commentary you posted? It doesn't sound very credible. Do you believe men make more money than women?
I don't think a full-time mom should automatically get custody, but I can certainly understand why she would more often than not, particularly if she's breast feeding.
I don't really think that single point negates anything else that's said.
If you do, that's pretty myopic.
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Exactly... It's always "the guys" fault she gets knocked up.
It's total crap.
Did you flunk biology or something? IT'S ALWAYS THE GUY'S FAULT....IT'S ALWAYS THE GIRL'S FAULT, TOO (unless, she was raped). Maybe you missed the memo. But, that's how we make babies on this planet.
Why? It's not the man's fault he doesn't carry it... It's nature... Ask any man and they would gladly carry the kid for 9 months and birth it if it meant the female had to pay for the child for the rest of his / her life.
Again... It's bullshit and it shows that women don't want equality in the world... They want special treatment and the pussies around the globe give it to them.
The only one who seems to fit that title, regarding this issue, is you (and like-minded men) who want to run and hide from responsibility. Quit whining about who's fault it is or isn't. If you get a girl pregnant and that child is born into this world, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CARE FOR HIM/HER. It doesn't matter how much money the mother or her parents make. It doesn't matter what the child support laws are in any state (those laws wouldn't be necessary, if it weren't for cowardly-thinking guys like you, having to be FORCED to take care of your own flesh and blood).
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Did you flunk biology or something? IT'S ALWAYS THE GUY'S FAULT....IT'S ALWAYS THE GIRL'S FAULT, TOO (unless, she was raped). Maybe you missed the memo. But, that's how we make babies on this planet.
The only one who seems to fit that title, regarding this issue, is you (and like-minded men) who want to run and hide from responsibility. Quit whining about who's fault it is or isn't. If you get a girl pregnant and that child is born into this world, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CARE FOR HIM/HER. It doesn't matter how much money the mother or her parents make. It doesn't matter what the child support laws are in any state (those laws wouldn't be necessary, if it weren't for cowardly-thinking guys like you, having to be FORCED to take care of your own flesh and blood).
MCWAY, you don't know me... Don't make this about me.
You couldn't me more wrong about anything.
The only people who don't think like me are women, pussies, and guys who've never been divorced with kids.
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Of course this deadbeat should support his kid. Any "man" who has to be forced by the courts to support his child is a straight up punk.
I only agree with half of this.
I definately believe he and any other father should support their children. No exceptions.
However, in the case of the parents not being married and living apart, it is best to let the courts decide what his support should be. This is for the benefit for the man, not the woman. It establishes fail safe guidelines for documentation and evidence of said support. Because otherwise, if the man spends years giving this woman money, buying clothes, food, etc.. it will not mean shit if she plays the "baby card" to stop him from seeing his kid. Which we all know some women do. Not a knock or generalization against women, but just the truth, some use the baby as a tool against each other. While this thread is about Palin/Levi my comment there wasn't.
The man needs guidelines to follow. Otherwise there is a chance of a possible headache awaiting hiim down the road. Get a baseline of support established. If he wants to do more, by all means more power to him. You can't be punished for doing more, but you can for doing less.
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So why would he pay child support?
Well because it is the law. And it is part of the civil process which makes parties be accountable for their personal responsibilities.
I would rather the child's father be forced to pay child support than have the mother go on welfare and I end up paying for it.
Yes seriously... Men have ZERO rights when it comes to kids in today's society and I find it appalling.
So YES, I am dead serious... If a dad gets no say, then he shouldn't have to pay. It's completely different if he's trying to run out, but if he's trying to be involved, as Levi says he is, then I don't think he should have to pay a dime.
If they want to keep the baby away from him, then fuck them.
He should sue the shit out of them for everything those neo-cooks have.
Actually in some states, if both parties agree to this they can go before the judge and request a judgement based on the mutual agreement that the mother (or the father depending on what they both agree with.) will forego any and all future child support in exchange for the other parent giving up all parental rights to the child. This basically renders the parent giving up the rights to the status of a passerby on the street in the childs life.
I have a very very close friend who went through this. (this is why I have an insight to this and the process because I basically researched this with him and acted as a witness to all parties and papers.) The mother gave up all parental rights to the child in exchange for not having to pay child support.
That means she has no visitation rights whatsoever. None. No every other weekend. No summer weeks. No Mother's Day, Xmas, birthdays, etc.. (Although he allows her to visit openly and freely whenever she wants but he doesn't have to. he can say fuck off and there is nothing she can do outside of getting an attorney and filing an appeal) He makes all decisions on the childs upbringing. School, religion, etc.. He does not have to ask her permission or even notify her if he wanted to move to another state or country. He could just pack up and go, not even required to leave as much as a Post It note behind to notify her where they went. In the event of a mortal situation where a life or death decision must be made, (like deciding to take the child off life support, organ donation, etc..) she has absolutely no say whatsoever.
Now. That being said, which is in agreement with your view about a father not having to be involved if he isn't sticking around... I don't share your view about Levi's circumstance. You see, he can be hit with child support no matter what. He can actually be forced to pay child support and still have no legal visitation rights to the child. The Palins are actually doing the right thing by allowing him to visit at their home under supervision. Yes, it is not exactly fair to him as a father, but in eyes of the law and court, they are going way beyond what they are required to do and showing the extension of goodwill towards him.
You know my feelings on the entire Palin clan so don't think this is a knock on you my friend, it simply is an accurate observation from the side of the law and the courts.
Also, one could argue that a child that young (under 6 months right?) really doesn't NEED to be away from it's mother overnight. Yes, Levi should be given adequate time for the child to bond with him as a father and it seems the Palins are giving him that opportunity. Which makes me wonder why he would go on tv and knock them for things if he really was interested in sticking around in the baby's life long term. When someone has the legal power to prevail in court over you, you might want to tend to keep them on your good side.
The part I have bolded in your quote, I agree 150%. Not just them, but anyone that does this. This is very common with teen pregnancies. The mother tends to live under her parents roof and her parents see the baby's father in an unfavorable light and seek to protect their daughter from further damage and heartache. (after all, you would do the same for your daughter too if you thought her baby daddy was irresponsible, lazy, good for nothing, etc..)
However, once he goes through legitimation of the child and gets court ordered visitation rights, he can hold up the finger to Todd, Sarah, and Bristol face and go "fuck you. I am seeing my son and there is nothing you can do about it."
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MCWAY, you don't know me... Don't make this about me.
You couldn't me more wrong about anything.
The only people who don't think like me are women, pussies, and guys who've never been divorced with kids.
Spare me the "you don't know me" diatribe, another tired phrase of excuse-making chumps.
I am none of the above. However, I am a father. So, I can say with all certainty that men who make pitiful excuses (such as you have done) for not taking care of their children are, as Beach Bum so eloquently put it, STRAIGHT-UP PUNKS.
Standing there, sniveling about so-called rights, pay, and the like, looking for any excuse to duck responsibility for your offspring is downright pathetic. I don't care what the rules are or what the government does or doesn't.
As a father, your job is to do whatever it takes to care for your children, END OF STORY. If you're so worried about the money, then find out what they need (clothes, insurance, tuition, etc.) and take care of that directly.
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Spare me the "you don't know me" diatribe, another tired phrase of excuse-making chumps.
I am none of the above. However, I am a father. So, I can say with all certainty that men who make pitiful excuses (such as you have done) for not taking care of their children are, as Beach Bum so eloquently put it, STRAIGHT-UP PUNKS.
Standing there, sniveling about so-called rights, pay, and the like, looking for any excuse to duck responsibility for your offspring is downright pathetic. I don't care what the rules are or what the government does or doesn't.
As a father, your job is to do whatever it takes to care for your children, END OF STORY. If you're so worried about the money, then find out what they need (clothes, insurance, tuition, etc.) and take care of that directly.
Fuck you.
Come say it to my face MCWAY and I'll knock you flat on your ass... I promise.
I'll be happy to hear you do it...
Oh yeah... Meltdown you little piss ant know nothing sack of shit.
Hide behind your little keyboard or come say it to my face.
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Spare me the "you don't know me" diatribe, another tired phrase of excuse-making chumps.
I am none of the above. However, I am a father. So, I can say with all certainty that men who make pitiful excuses (such as you have done) for not taking care of their children are, as Beach Bum so eloquently put it, STRAIGHT-UP PUNKS.
Standing there, sniveling about so-called rights, pay, and the like, looking for any excuse to duck responsibility for your offspring is downright pathetic. I don't care what the rules are or what the government does or doesn't.
As a father, your job is to do whatever it takes to care for your children, END OF STORY. If you're so worried about the money, then find out what they need (clothes, insurance, tuition, etc.) and take care of that directly.
Look MC i dont think anybody here is argueing the need for a man to take care of their children what we are saying is that a women has that same responsibility and the law doesnt recognize that fact. Its shown in abortion laws as opposed to child support laws, its shown in amount paid by men as opposed to women, its shown in the bias in outcomes in situations with men and women and their children who are seperated. I agree with you, take care of you children but i disagree that b/c you are a man you have more of a responsibility then women do under the law.
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Fuck you.
Come say it to my face MCWAY and I'll knock you flat on your ass... I promise.
Promises were made to be broken. Regardless of what you allegedly claim you can do to me, you still remain a straight-up punk, if you use pitiful excuses for not taking care of your children.
I'll be happy to hear you do it...
Oh yeah... Meltdown you little piss ant know nothing sack of shit.
Hide behind your little keyboard or come say it to my face.
YAWWWNN!!!!! Color me unimpressed!!!
::)
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Look MC i dont think anybody here is argueing the need for a man to take care of their children what we are saying is that a women has that same responsibility and the law doesnt recognize that fact. Its shown in abortion laws as opposed to child support laws, its shown in amount paid by men as opposed to women, its shown in the bias in outcomes in situations with men and women and their children who are seperated. I agree with you, take care of you children but i disagree that b/c you are a man you have more of a responsibility then women do under the law.
Men have always had more responsibility. We're supposed to take care of our children. The fact that men are running from that responsibility and abandoning their own flesh and blood is why our society has many of the woes that it does today.
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Promises were made to be broken. Regardless of what you allegedly claim you can do to me, you still remain a straight-up punk, if you use pitiful excuses for not taking care of your children.
YAWWWNN!!!!! Color me unimpressed!!!
::)
You are a piece of shit who doesn't know anything... I LOVE my children and I guarantee you, if you ever said it to my face, your grandchildren would feel the pain.
You think you are tough because you have a keyboard and that you can talk about other people and how they feel about your children?
You are obviously castrated by your bitch ass hag of a wife... So feel free to find me... I'm not hiding.
I know I won't be seeing you soon.
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Men have always had more responsibility. We're supposed to take care of our children. The fact that men are running from that responsibility and abandoning their own flesh and blood is why our society has many of the woes that it does today.
Yep, but how many women use kids as weapons these days? How many take the man to court to get some asanine child-support judgement, then go buy new cars and clothes for themselves? I know guys who pay $1200 a month, and never get to see their kids without going to court for 6 months first. And these are decent guys... just in Cali the women wins 98% of the time.
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Men have always had more responsibility. We're supposed to take care of our children. The fact that men are running from that responsibility and abandoning their own flesh and blood is why our society has many of the woes that it does today.
I agree but when WOMEN start yelling about equal rights under the law, they should get equal rights not preferential treatment which is what they recieve, wouldnt you agree? Nobody is advocating that men shouldnt take care of their children we are simply making a point that the legal system isnt fair in this instance. Again a women can have an abortion legally without a mans consent, do you believe that to be fair? Probably not
but if a man doesnt want a child he is screwed if the women does and even after the fact is made to pay more then women on average and have less access, is that fair?
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Yep, but how many women use kids as weapons these days? How many take the man to court to get some asanine child-support judgement, then go buy new cars and clothes for themselves? I know guys who pay $1200 a month, and never get to see their kids without going to court for 6 months first. And these are decent guys... just in Cali the women wins 98% of the time.
My ex-wife works 5 hour days, goofs off and goes out and parties while dropping my kids off with MY parents... because I have to be 3000 miles away for my job, since we decided we were going to move Los Angeles for a great career opportunity, then she decided, after I had moved here and started to setup a residence, that she wanted a divorce from me and started fucking the guy who was coming over to "help her sell the house."
I pay more than your friend btw and fly back to the east coast EVERY month for 2 weeks to see them and be a part of their lives.
So excuse me if I think MCWAY is a piece of shit who is talking out of his ass without knowing a god damn thing about the situation.
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Yep, but how many women use kids as weapons these days? How many take the man to court to get some asanine child-support judgement, then go buy new cars and clothes for themselves? I know guys who pay $1200 a month, and never get to see their kids without going to court for 6 months first. And these are decent guys... just in Cali the women wins 98% of the time.
no doubt i have a friend who has a baby with a chick he isnt with, she has threatened on more then one occasion to move away from him so he couldnt see the baby, also is always really excited when he gets a raise b/c as she put it "when you get a raise, i get a raise"
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My ex-wife works 5 hour days, goofs off and goes out and parties while dropping my kids off with MY parents... because I have to be 3000 miles away for my job, since we decided we were going to move Los Angeles for a great career opportunity, then she decided, after I had moved here and started to setup a residence, that she wanted a divorce from me and started fucking the guy who was coming over to "help her sell the house."
I pay more than your friend btw and fly back to the east coast EVERY month for 2 weeks to see them and be a part of their lives.
So excuse me if I think MCWAY is a piece of shit who is talking out of his ass without knowing a god damn thing about the situation.
That is totally fucked bro, sorry to hear that shit.
Who's 'Great Career Opportunity"? If I may ask?
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That is totally fucked bro, sorry to hear that shit.
Who's 'Great Career Opportunity"? If I may ask?
It was mine... but she was with it 100 percent... She had no career... She only has a job... no skills... no nothing.
If I were to die tomorrow, both she and my kids would be completely fucked until my kids turned 18 and could collect on my Insurance that I have left to them.
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One thing to consider is the fact that many courts have judges that operate under the "old days" syndrome.
Meaning in the old days (their youth), the father was the bread winner and the mother stayed home. The father was the sole support for the family and the money maker. Without him, there would be no money for the child. So they tend to protect the women in court cases like this.
Is it fair? No. I believe that an honest hearing and assessment should be conducted and the better parent awarded. But unfortunately that isn't always the case. However, a kid that is used by one parent as a weapon against the other will always remember that and when reaching adulthood they can make their own decision where their loyalties lay. (Doesn't make it easier in the short term for the father though who misses 80% of his childs upbringing and childhood)
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You are a piece of shit who doesn't know anything... I LOVE my children and I guarantee you, if you ever said it to my face, your grandchildren would feel the pain.
You think you are tough because you have a keyboard and that you can talk about other people and how they feel about your children?
I'm sorry!!! Who was the one calling people "p#*@^@#", because they didn't share your opinion about this particular situation? OH, that would be YOU!!!
So, if you can't take the criticism, don't dish it out.
Yet, when you get called about your statements, you get all whiny and start making threats. Again, color me unimpressed.
You are obviously castrated by your bitch ass hag of a wife... So feel free to find me... I'm not hiding.
I know I won't be seeing you soon.
WOW!! You can dish out the barbs but can't take them. My, my, my how impressive!!!
I don't need to find you for any rhyme or reason (I have better things to do with my time and money).
Just because you're disgruntled with the unfortunate circumstances, regarding your family, does not give you license to demean others who disagree with your view, without their being able to respond in kind.
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I'm sorry!!! Who was the one calling people "p#*@^@#", because they didn't share your opinion about this particular situation? OH, that would be YOU!!!
So, if you can't take the criticism, don't dish it out.
Yet, when you get called about your statements, you get all whiny and start making threats. Again, color me unimpressed.
WOW!! You can dish out the barbs but can't take them. My, my, my how impressive!!!
I don't need to find you for any rhyme or reason (I have better things to do with my time and money).
Just because you're disgruntled with the unfortunate circumstances, regarding your family, does not give you license to demean others who disagree with your view, without their being able to respond in kind.
Uh... you called ME a punk you fruitcake.
You're a piece of shit... Continue to be a bitch because you wouldn't dare say it to my face.
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I don't really think that single point negates anything else that's said.
If you do, that's pretty myopic.
Of course it does. If he says something so blatantly incorrect how can you trust any of the unsourced information he provides? That's how credibility works.
I pull stuff off the internet all the time, but you never really know what you're getting, especially if the author doesn't provide any backup for his or her statements.
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Uh... you called ME a punk you fruitcake.
You're a piece of shit... Continue to be a bitch because you wouldn't dare say it to my face.
And, you called me a "P&#^@". What's your point?
Again, you can dish out the criticism but you can't take it.
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I only agree with half of this.
I definately believe he and any other father should support their children. No exceptions.
However, in the case of the parents not being married and living apart, it is best to let the courts decide what his support should be. This is for the benefit for the man, not the woman. It establishes fail safe guidelines for documentation and evidence of said support. Because otherwise, if the man spends years giving this woman money, buying clothes, food, etc.. it will not mean shit if she plays the "baby card" to stop him from seeing his kid. Which we all know some women do. Not a knock or generalization against women, but just the truth, some use the baby as a tool against each other. While this thread is about Palin/Levi my comment there wasn't.
The man needs guidelines to follow. Otherwise there is a chance of a possible headache awaiting hiim down the road. Get a baseline of support established. If he wants to do more, by all means more power to him. You can't be punished for doing more, but you can for doing less.
I understand the role the courts serve and unfortunately the courts are required for deadbeat dads, but I'm really just making a broader point that a real man will care for his children without being forced to do so. Who cares what a judge says? If you father a baby, you have a moral obligation to provide food, clothes, shelter, etc. for your child, regardless of whether you have physical custody.
I'm not really talking about the law. I'm talking about doing the right thing. Being a man. Accepting responsibility. What I'm reading in this thread (not from you) is a bunch of whining about how "unfair" the "system" is, blah blah blah. Even if true, that doesn't change a real man's responsibility to his kids.
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And, you called me a "P&#^@". What's your point?
Again, you can dish out the criticism but you can't take it.
I would NEVER say something about a person and their kids.
That's just shitty... You are the lowest of the low.
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Spare me the "you don't know me" diatribe, another tired phrase of excuse-making chumps.
I am none of the above. However, I am a father. So, I can say with all certainty that men who make pitiful excuses (such as you have done) for not taking care of their children are, as Beach Bum so eloquently put it, STRAIGHT-UP PUNKS.
Standing there, sniveling about so-called rights, pay, and the like, looking for any excuse to duck responsibility for your offspring is downright pathetic. I don't care what the rules are or what the government does or doesn't.
As a father, your job is to do whatever it takes to care for your children, END OF STORY. If you're so worried about the money, then find out what they need (clothes, insurance, tuition, etc.) and take care of that directly.
Oops. Sorry to be an echo with my last post. :) I completely agree.
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This is actually a good discussion. Let's not turn it into Z Board material.
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One thing to consider is the fact that many courts have judges that operate under the "old days" syndrome.
Meaning in the old days (their youth), the father was the bread winner and the mother stayed home. The father was the sole support for the family and the money maker. Without him, there would be no money for the child. So they tend to protect the women in court cases like this.
Is it fair? No. I believe that an honest hearing and assessment should be conducted and the better parent awarded. But unfortunately that isn't always the case. However, a kid that is used by one parent as a weapon against the other will always remember that and when reaching adulthood they can make their own decision where their loyalties lay. (Doesn't make it easier in the short term for the father though who misses 80% of his childs upbringing and childhood)
Good points, indeed. But, part of the problem is that, in too many cases, the fathers missing 80% of their child’s life is done of their own decision. Therefore, the child support laws have been modified to account for that.
But, like any law, that can be abused and misused to the detriment of decent dads.
I understand the role the courts serve and unfortunately the courts are required for deadbeat dads, but I'm really just making a broader point that a real man will care for his children without being forced to do so. Who cares what a judge says? If you father a baby, you have a moral obligation to provide food, clothes, shelter, etc. for your child, regardless of whether you have physical custody.
I'm not really talking about the law. I'm talking about doing the right thing. Being a man. Accepting responsibility. What I'm reading in this thread (not from you) is a bunch of whining about how "unfair" the "system" is, blah blah blah. Even if true, that doesn't change a real man's responsibility to his kids.
AMEN!!!
That's the point I was making, as well.
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I would NEVER say something about a person and their kids.
That's just shitty... You are the lowest of the low.
First of all, I didn’t say anything negative about your children, unlike your DIRECT and disrespectful comments about my wife.
Secondly, as Beach Bum indicated, the issue that he and I have are in regards to the legions of pitiful excuses, for men not taking care of their children.
That is where the discussion lies.
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First of all, I didn’t say anything negative about your children, unlike your DIRECT and disrespectful comments about my wife.
Secondly, as Beach Bum indicated, the issue that he and I have are in regards to the legions of pitiful excuses, for men not taking care of their children.
That is where the discussion lies.
Correct.
Tu no one is talking about you personally. I'm sorry to hear about what your ex did. Terrible. I'm a firm believer in "what goes around, comes around," so her day is coming.
But your situation doesn't really deal with deadbeats, because you obviously take care of your kids. Huge sacrifice you're making to raise them. That's the kind of commitment that all fathers should make to their kids. What too many fathers will do is run away when faced with "unfair" situations.
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I think you guys are misunderstanding our point, NOBODY IS SAYING TO NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, the point is that the law is biased and even society is biased point in case a few posts back beach you referred to dead beat dads, i understand this term but what name do you call a women who chooses to get an abortion for non medical reasons?
Its perfectly fine for women to not take responsibility for their actions under the law and even society to a degree but the man gets plastered with names and law suits if he chooses not to, that sound fair to you guys?
Add to that the raping on average a man takes in child support, divorce etc...
I think all me and holmes are saying is that there should be equal rights under the law and there simply isnt.
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First of all, I didn’t say anything negative about your children, unlike your DIRECT and disrespectful comments about my wife.
Secondly, as Beach Bum indicated, the issue that he and I have are in regards to the legions of pitiful excuses, for men not taking care of their children.
That is where the discussion lies.
No... you said it about me in relation TO my children.
No excuse.
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I think you guys are misunderstanding our point, NOBODY IS SAYING TO NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, the point is that the law is biased and even society is biased point in case a few posts back beach you referred to dead beat dads, i understand this term but what name do you call a women who chooses to get an abortion for non medical reasons?
Its perfectly fine for women to not take responsibility for their actions under the law and even society to a degree but the man gets plastered with names and law suits if he chooses not to, that sound fair to you guys?
Add to that the raping on average a man takes in child support, divorce etc...
I think all me and holmes are saying is that there should be equal rights under the law and there simply isnt.
How does that absolve Levi from taking care of his responsibilities? It doesn't.
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How does that absolve Levi from taking care of his responsibilities? It doesn't.
i never said it did and i dont think holmes did either, we got off on a tangent ;D
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i never said it did and i dont think holmes did either, we got off on a tangent ;D
You think? :-\
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You think? :-\
lol that happend like 2 or 3 pages ago, where you been?
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I think you guys are misunderstanding our point, NOBODY IS SAYING TO NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CHILDREN, the point is that the law is biased and even society is biased point in case a few posts back beach you referred to dead beat dads, i understand this term but what name do you call a women who chooses to get an abortion for non medical reasons?
Its perfectly fine for women to not take responsibility for their actions under the law and even society to a degree but the man gets plastered with names and law suits if he chooses not to, that sound fair to you guys?
Add to that the raping on average a man takes in child support, divorce etc...
I think all me and holmes are saying is that there should be equal rights under the law and there simply isnt.
I'd call that woman "selfish," but I really think that's a different subject.
A real man should not have to be sued for support. It shouldn't even be in the courts.
I'm not convinced men don't get treated fairly today for the most part. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I know women had a huge advantage a while back, but I know of plenty of instances in which a divorced (or single parent) father was treated fairly. If you really think about it, if a man does everything he can to care for his kids he most likely won't be involved in legal support disputes with the mother of his kids.
I honestly don’t believe courts are the ideal place to resolve custody/support issues anyway. It’s something the parents need to work out between themselves. I know that isn’t reality for the most part, given all the emotion, etc. involved, but that’s what should happen.
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I'd call that woman "selfish," but I really think that's a different subject.
A real man should not have to be sued for support. It shouldn't even be in the courts.
I'm not convinced men don't get treated fairly today for the most part. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I know women had a huge advantage a while back, but I know of plenty of instances in which a divorced (or single parent) father was treated fairly. If you really think about it, if a man does everything he can to care for his kids he most likely won't be involved in legal support disputes with the mother of his kids.
I honestly don’t believe courts are the ideal place to resolve custody/support issues anyway. It’s something the parents need to work out between themselves. I know that isn’t reality for the most part, given all the emotion, etc. involved, but that’s what should happen.
its the same subject which again only proves that you arent getting my point...Again nobody is saying dont be a parent, dont support your children. A real person would take responsibility for a child regardless of the sex of that person, thing is the law allows for women to take less responsibility and yes beach that does include monetarily as well. Males by and large pay more in child support then females, females by in large get custody of their children more then males.
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its the same subject which again only proves that you arent getting my point...Again nobody is saying dont be a parent, dont support your children. A real person would take responsibility for a child regardless of the sex of that person, thing is the law allows for women to take less responsibility and yes beach that does include monetarily as well. Males by and large pay more in child support then females, females by in large get custody of their children more then males.
I guess that all depends upon which laws you're referring to.... man-made laws, ...or the laws of nature?
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I guess that all depends upon which laws you're referring to.... man-made laws, ...or the laws of nature?
well since i never hear much about women yelling for equal rights and such im gonna say man made laws, make passive aggressive comments jag thats fine you cant deny that the law in the US as they pertain to this subject favor women.
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its the same subject which again only proves that you arent getting my point...Again nobody is saying dont be a parent, dont support your children. A real person would take responsibility for a child regardless of the sex of that person, thing is the law allows for women to take less responsibility and yes beach that does include monetarily as well. Males by and large pay more in child support then females, females by in large get custody of their children more then males.
I get your point. I disagree with your point. Men paying more in custody and women getting custody more than men doesn't mean the system is unfair. A more likely explanation is men tend to make more money than women, especially if the woman has had kids and missed extended periods of time in the workplace. Women may get custody more often than men because they are often the primary care providers for the kids, particularly when the kids are young.
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well since i never hear much about women yelling for equal rights and such im gonna say man made laws, make passive aggressive comments jag thats fine you cant deny that the law in the US as they pertain to this subject favor women.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/angel2.gif)
...so what you're saying is that all knowing, all powerful men fvcked up AGAIN?!
"The fault Dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, ...but in ourselves"
well you did tell me to make a passive aggressive comment didn't you?
you know me, ..always glad to oblige you. :-*
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(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/angel2.gif)
...so what you're saying is that all knowing, all powerful men fvcked up AGAIN?!
"The fault Dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, ...but in ourselves"
well you did tell me to make a passive aggressive comment didn't you?
you know me, ..always glad to oblige you. :-*
LOL I WILL SPANK YOU LITTLE LADY...
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LOL I WILL SPANK YOU LITTLE LADY...
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/imahes/Frightenedmouse.gif)
You'd have to catch me first. And I plan on running very very fast (new sneakers, ...they're very pretty) :)
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I'd call that woman "selfish," but I really think that's a different subject.
A real man should not have to be sued for support. It shouldn't even be in the courts.
I'm not convinced men don't get treated fairly today for the most part. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I know women had a huge advantage a while back, but I know of plenty of instances in which a divorced (or single parent) father was treated fairly. If you really think about it, if a man does everything he can to care for his kids he most likely won't be involved in legal support disputes with the mother of his kids.
I honestly don’t believe courts are the ideal place to resolve custody/support issues anyway. It’s something the parents need to work out between themselves. I know that isn’t reality for the most part, given all the emotion, etc. involved, but that’s what should happen.
Dude... My ex talked to an attorney before the divorce and they decided that because of the difference in salary, over 2000 dollars a month is what is considered "fair" according to the court system, so they immediately took me to court.
No out of court, no nothing... Just boom.
I got a subpoena and walked into the court room and the Judge just said... give it to her.
I give her and my kids more than she makes in a month.... I'm paying for her to live in a cozy little house and do whatever she wants to do... None of her money goes to taking care of the kids... It's all mine and I'll dare anyone to show me otherwise.
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Dude... My ex talked to an attorney before the divorce and they decided that because of the difference in salary, over 2000 dollars a month is what is considered "fair" according to the court system, so they immediately took me to court.
No out of court, no nothing... Just boom.
I got a subpoena and walked into the court room and the Judge just said... give it to her.
I give her and my kids more than she makes in a month.... I'm paying for her to live in a cozy little house and do whatever she wants to do... None of her money goes to taking care of the kids... It's all mine and I'll dare anyone to show me otherwise.
that blows bro, but like beach said she will get hers my guess is when your kids hit 18 and you stop paying her...then you will get your lb of flesh my friend.
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Dude... My ex talked to an attorney before the divorce and they decided that because of the difference in salary, over 2000 dollars a month is what is considered "fair" according to the court system, so they immediately took me to court.
No out of court, no nothing... Just boom.
I got a subpoena and walked into the court room and the Judge just said... give it to her.
I give her and my kids more than she makes in a month.... I'm paying for her to live in a cozy little house and do whatever she wants to do... None of her money goes to taking care of the kids... It's all mine and I'll dare anyone to show me otherwise.
Did you have an attorney?
Man you need to just keep doing what you're doing. Your kids will really appreciate what you've done and good things will happen to you. You're doing the right thing. That's what really matters.
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Did you have an attorney?
Man you need to just keep doing what you're doing. Your kids will really appreciate what you've done and good things will happen to you. You're doing the right thing. That's what really matters.
Of course I had an attorney... But the county she filed in has a notorious judge who just gives the woman whatever she asks for.
We hadn't even lived in that county, but she filed there anyway, just because of the Judge.
I'm not going to change what I'm doing... I handle my business to hang with my kids... I'll be flying back this friday actually.
I'm simply saying that in my personal experience, most guys get shafted by the courts.
Judges can rule for the "poor weak woman" at their whim.
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No joke. I have seen this over and over again. You will never see the situation reversed. Ever. I have seen dudes who haven't even seen the kids in years paying most of their income to their ex's, when the ex's moved out of state, but kept the demand for $$$. I knew a chick in OR back in the day who had 4 kids from 3 different daddys, and was living it up... kids were at the grandparents like 90% of the time... and she was pulling 3 child support checks in making like 4K/month (tax free)... and this was like 15 years ago!
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Of course I had an attorney... But the county she filed in has a notorious judge who just gives the woman whatever she asks for.
We hadn't even lived in that county, but she filed there anyway, just because of the Judge.
I'm not going to change what I'm doing... I handle my business to hang with my kids... I'll be flying back this friday actually.
I'm simply saying that in my personal experience, most guys get shafted by the courts.
Judges can rule for the "poor weak woman" at their whim.
I agree that some men get shafted, as your situation shows.
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I agree that some men get shafted, as your situation shows.
So do I, ...but I still don't see how that absolves Levi from his responsibility.
I'm still waiting for Tu to explain that to us. :-\
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So do I, ...but I still don't see how that absolves Levi from his responsibility.
I'm still waiting for Tu to explain that to us. :-\
I didn't say it did... I said if they are not letting him see his own child then he shouldn't have to pay child support.
You can't talk about his responsibilities as a father if they aren't letting him be a responsible parent in the first place.
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I didn't say it did... I said if they are not letting him see his own child then he shouldn't have to pay child support.
You can't talk about his responsibilities as a father if they aren't letting him be a responsible parent in the first place.
Again I argue that child support payments are just that... payments to support the child. They're not access fees
Whether one has access is a matter for the courts, but it doesn't absolve one of their responsibility to financially support their offspring.
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Again I argue that child support payments are just that... payments to support the child. They're not access fees
Whether one has access is a matter for the courts, but it doesn't absolve one of their responsibility to financially support their offspring.
Then we will not agree... end of story.
If you think it's right to keep a father away from his children, and still tell him he's financially responsible (because apparently you're saying that the only thing that makes a father a father is money) then to me, you're just wrong and that's all there is to it.
Nothing you say or present will ever change my mind about it.
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Then we will not agree... end of story.
If you think it's right to keep a father away from his children, and still tell him he's financially responsible (because apparently you're saying that the only thing that makes a father a father is money) then to me, you're just wrong and that's all there is to it.
I never said it was right to do that. Please show me where I did.
I simply said child support is not paid access. That's something more men, ...and the women who hold a father's visitation rights hostage, should realize. Sorry if not spelling out genders gave the opinion I thought only men believed child support is paid access, ...many women seem to think so too.
If a child is being withheld from a parent by a vindictive ex spouse or whatever, ...it still does not absolve the parent of their financial responsibilities towards the child. That's a matter for the courts. Again, in a perfect world, visitation and custodial rights should never have to be adjudicated, ...just like child support, ...however each is a completely separate matter. All too often people try to link the two, but they have nothing to do with one another. I've never said financial support is the only thing that makes a father a father, ...unfortunately too many men seem to think it is, ...and too many women once finished with their ex's settle for that simply because they want the ex out of their lives as much as possible.
Nothing you say or present will ever change my mind about it.
No, ...not when your primary thoughts are about yourself and your *itchy ex, ...and not the innocent child(ren)
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I never said it was right to do that. Please show me where I did.
I simply said child support is not paid access. That's something more men, ...and the women who hold a father's visitation rights hostage, should realize. Sorry if not spelling out genders gave the opinion I thought only men believed child support is paid access, ...many women seem to think so too.
If a child is being withheld from a parent by a vindictive ex spouse or whatever, ...it still does not absolve the parent of their financial responsibilities towards the child. That's a matter for the courts. Again, in a perfect world, visitation and custodial rights should never have to be adjudicated, ...just like child support, ...however each is a completely separate matter. All too often people try to link the two, but they have nothing to do with one another. I've never said financial support is the only thing that makes a father a father, ...unfortunately too many men seem to think it is, ...and too many women once finished with their ex's settle for that simply because they want the ex out of their lives as much as possible.
No, ...not when your primary thoughts are about yourself and your *itchy ex, ...and not the innocent child(ren)
No... it's because it's wrong.
How many kids do you have?
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No... it's because it's wrong.
How many kids do you have?
I don't have to have kids to know that if you bring a child into this world you have to support it financially.
Of course the responsibility doesn't end there, but it's one of them.
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I don't have to have kids to know that if you bring a child into this world you have to support it financially.
Of course the responsibility doesn't end there, but it's one of them.
Apparently only the man is financially responsible in your world.
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Apparently only the man is financially responsible in your world.
I never said that.
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I never said that.
You don't have to... You're implying it by your other statements.
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You don't have to... You're implying it by your other statements.
Not at all. Your bitterness over your personal situation impedes your ability to comprehend what I've actually written. You're inserting text and meaning where there is none. Stop focussing on yourself and start focussing onto the child and your vision may become less cloudy, ...or maybe not. (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/shrug.gif)
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Not at all. Your bitterness over your personal situation impedes your ability to comprehend what I've actually written. You're inserting text and meaning where there is none. Stop focussing on yourself and start focussing onto the child and your vision may become less cloudy, ...or maybe not. (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/shrug.gif)
It's ok Jag... I understand you don't have a clue about this type of thing.... I'll give you a pass on it.
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It's ok Jag... I understand you don't have a clue about this type of thing.... I'll give you a pass on it.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/rotflmao.gif)