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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Parker on July 24, 2009, 05:46:11 PM
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If Vick gets another shot, and the Pats take chance on him, have him as back-up, you think the fans would give him a chance?
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I doubt they would take him. If they did, I'd be upset about it. Vick would = media circus.....not the Pat's m.o.
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They have a history of signing troubled players (Dillon and Moss). Not sure he fits that offense though.
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What kind of chance is there that a team will take him?
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What kind of chance is there that a team will take him?
About 100 percent. He'll likely have multiple offers. He's one of the most unique athletes in the history of the NFL. Assuming he gets his body in shape, he'll be back on the field within the next season or two.
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About 100 percent. He'll likely have multiple offers. He's one of the most unique athletes in the history of the NFL. Assuming he gets his body in shape, he'll be back on the field within the next season or two.
Not as a starting QB. Two seasons removed as a starting QB in the NFL is monumental in terms of timing, pocket presence, and awareness.
Playing touch football on the prison yard didn't help him maintain anything. But as a wildcat QB or as a WR lined up in the slot he would definitely help a team.
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About 100 percent. He'll likely have multiple offers. He's one of the most unique athletes in the history of the NFL. Assuming he gets his body in shape, he'll be back on the field within the next season or two.
It will be interesting to see who makes offers.
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Not as a starting QB. Two seasons removed as a starting QB in the NFL is monumental in terms of timing, pocket presence, and awareness.
Playing touch football on the prison yard didn't help him maintain anything. But as a wildcat QB or as a WR lined up in the slot he would definitely help a team.
He could start game 1 of this coming season for about half the teams in the NFL. The QB position is pretty weak. If you play FF you know how lousy or at best average QBs get after about the top 10 or so.
I agree he needs time to get back to the level he was at before going to prison (i.e., a Pro Bowl QB), but that should come with time and hard work.
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It will be interesting to see who makes offers.
There are a lot of QB needy teams. I hope my Niners sign him.
I think the commish will suspend him for a few games to try and appease those who think Vick should never play again and some team will sign him to a one or two year deal for the league minimum. He'll get booed by some until he starts running all over the field again and people will eventually get over it.
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There are a lot of QB needy teams. I hope my Niners sign him.
I think the commish will suspend him for a few games to try and appease those who think Vick should never play again and some team will sign him to a one or two year deal for the league minimum. He'll get booed by some until he starts running all over the field again and people will eventually get over it.
I know this may sound terrible but I think I will lose respect for any team that signs him. I know people can change though and I hope this is true in his case.
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I know this may sound terrible but I think I will lose respect for any team that signs him. I know people can change though and I hope this is true in his case.
I understand how you feel. I've talked to people on both sides of the fence.
I think he has paid his debt. He was given probably the most severe animal cruelty punishment in the history of the country. He lost his freedom, his employment, his endorsements, good will, etc. He apologized. He pledged to work with animal rights groups. There really isn't anything more he can do.
Pretty hard to keep him out of the league when Leonard Little (who killed a person) only served a several game suspension and was allowed to play. Same with Donte Stallworth, who recently served 24 days in jail after killing a pedestrian with his car while drunk and apparently high. He'll probably be back in the league next year.
The league lets potheads, wife beaters, etc. play and the fans quickly forget about athlete indiscretions once the player starts to perform. We're a forgiving and shallow group of sports fans. :)
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Pretty hard to keep him out of the league when Leonard Little (who killed a person) only served a several game suspension and was allowed to play. Same with Donte Stallworth, who recently served 24 days in jail after killing a pedestrian with his car while drunk and apparently high. He'll probably be back in the league next year.
I don't know who Leonard LIttle is...what happened there?
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I don't know who Leonard LIttle is...what happened there?
He got drunk and ran over a mother. Got the proverbial slap on the wrist, served an eight game suspension, and has had a very long NFL career. Here is a story that talks about Little and others:
Donte' Stallworth plea bargain recalls 1998 Leonard Little case; he drove drunk and killed a motorist
By BRIAN BIGGANE
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, June 17, 2009
One hundred yards. The length of a football field.
That's how far St. Louis Rams rookie Leonard Little traveled in his Lincoln Navigator the night of Oct. 19, 1998, before running a red light and smashing into a Ford Thunderbird driven by Susan Gutweiler, 47, of suburban Oakville.
Little had been celebrating his 24th birthday with teammates at a bar. After the crash, his blood-alcohol level measured 0.19, more than double the Missouri legal limit of 0.08.
Gutweiler died of her injuries the next day.
A little over a year later, after Little pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter, served 90 days in jail and was suspended by the NFL for the first eight games of the 1999 season, coach Dick Vermeil brought him back to the team.
The storm of protests continues to this day.
"I did what I thought was right for the person involved," Vermeil said recently from his home in Kansas City. "From time to time you can't please everybody."
The Cleveland Browns soon will face a similar question regarding wide receiver Donte' Stallworth, who Tuesday began serving a 30-day jail sentence for driving drunk and fatally hitting a 59-year-old construction worker who, while trying to catch a bus, was cutting across a Miami Beach street.
Before the Browns decide on Stallworth's return, they'll await the decision of Commissioner Roger Goodell, who is looking into disciplinary action. Next month, Goodell is expected to rule on an even larger controversy - the potential return of quarterback Michael Vick, who is scheduled to be released from home confinement July 20 after serving 23 months in custody for running a dog-fighting ring.
The short sentence negotiated by Stallworth shocked some fans. The same feeling ran through St. Louis when Little was jailed a decade ago. That controversy concerning the discipline for Little, who killed a mother of two, remains charged today.
"We can write a game story that does nothing more than quote Leonard Little regarding a play he made and we'll get e-mails saying, 'Why are you quoting that murderer?' " St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Bryan Burwell said. "Some people will never forgive him."
Mike Boland, president of the Missouri chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) when Gutweiler was killed, said Little spent too little time behind bars.
"For what Mr. Little did, it was definitely not enough," Boland said.
NFL teams dealing with the fallout of athletes who turn into criminals is nothing new. Nearly 40 years ago, in 1970, the Dallas Cowboys felt compelled to trade wide receiver Lance Rentzel after he was charged with exposing himself to a 10-year-old boy.
"(Coach) Tom Landry was offended and angry about it," said former Cowboys personnel director Gil Brandt. "You want to give a guy another chance, but you also want to do what's right. It's a hard option."
The Cowboys proved more tolerant when Michael Irvin had a series of runs-in with the law in the late '90s.
Cincinnati wide receiver Chris Henry tested the limits of the Bengals' tolerance when he was arrested in five separate incidents from 2005-08. Last pre-season, just when it seemed that Henry had used up his last chance, General Manager Mike Brown signed him to a two-year contract after both Chad Ochocinco and T.J. Houshmandzadeh went down with injuries.
One angry fan reacted by renting a billboard on a busy interstate that flashed the words "Chris Henry Again? ... Are You Serious?"
Henry hasn't made another misstep since. "I made up my mind I was going to stay away from that type of stuff," he said. "It's been pretty much a complete 360. It's what I had to do."
While questions have arisen over the character of Vick, Henry and scores of others involved in such incidents, Vermeil said it was Little's character that suggested he be given another chance as quickly as he was.
"He wasn't a problem drinker, nothing like that," Vermeil said. "He's a very quiet young man, humble, with a rural background, the kind of guy who would never speak up even in the linebacker meetings. To call him a murderer, that's just not him.
"He made a mistake. It's a fact there was an accident, and it's a fact that a person passed away. That was terrible. There's nothing worse for him than knowing he'd made a mistake and that mistake cost a person their life. It's something he'll never get rid of."
Little, who this fall will enter his 12th season, all with the Rams, was elected to the Pro Bowl in 2002. Over the years, he has transitioned from linebacker to defensive end.
MADD's Boland remains unhappy with the way the Rams - and Vermeil in particular - handled what transpired in the weeks and months after the accident, which occurred the day after the Rams visited Miami and lost 14-0 to the Dolphins.
"Their decision from the get-go was to look at the death of Mrs. Gutweiler and call it 'the situation,' " Boland said. "They never talked about him pleading guilty or committing a crime; it was always 'the situation.' "
On Nov. 14, 1999, the day Little was eligible to return, MADD staged a march from the crash site of the accident to the TWA Dome, stopping there to erect a memorial featuring a picture of Gutweiler and laying down 526 flowers, one for each victim of a drunk-driving accident in Missouri that year.
Little served 1,000 hours of community service as part of his sentence. Boland said it was hoped he might use his celebrity status to become a spokesman for their cause, and in the past few years he has addressed the issue with school and church groups. Those who know him say asking more would be asking too much.
"There are all kinds of personalities who would step up and do those things," Vermeil said. "Leonard is very quiet and withdrawn. That's not him."
Six years after the accident, in 2004, Little was again arrested for drunk driving and speeding, but the field-test results for blood-alcohol level were faulty and he refused a second test at the police station. He was ultimately acquitted of driving while intoxicated and convicted of the misdemeanor speeding charge.
Dan Lebowitz, executive director of Sport in Society, a research group at Northeastern University in Boston, said the cases of Little, Stallworth, Vick and others force sports fans to decide how much they're willing to tolerate.
"A lot of these athletes get a lot of money at a very young age, and the decisions they make are not the best," Lebowitz said. "You have to look at the entire equation: At what point do the negatives outweigh the positives?
"Athletes are people, and most of us are willing to give people a second chance. You just hope they make the most of it."
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2009/06/17/0617little.html
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I understand how you feel. I've talked to people on both sides of the fence.
I think he has paid his debt. He was given probably the most severe animal cruelty punishment in the history of the country. He lost his freedom, his employment, his endorsements, good will, etc. He apologized. He pledged to work with animal rights groups. There really isn't anything more he can do.
Pretty hard to keep him out of the league when Leonard Little (who killed a person) only served a several game suspension and was allowed to play. Same with Donte Stallworth, who recently served 24 days in jail after killing a pedestrian with his car while drunk and apparently high. He'll probably be back in the league next year.
The league lets potheads, wife beaters, etc. play and the fans quickly forget about athlete indiscretions once the player starts to perform. We're a forgiving and shallow group of sports fans. :)
Very good points. But no, I don't want him on The Niners.
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He got drunk and ran over a mother. Got the proverbial slap on the wrist, served an eight game suspension, and has had a very long NFL career. Here is a story that talks about Little and others:
Donte' Stallworth plea bargain recalls 1998 Leonard Little case; he drove drunk and killed a motorist
By BRIAN BIGGANE
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, June 17, 2009
One hundred yards. The length of a football field.
That's how far St. Louis Rams rookie Leonard Little traveled in his Lincoln Navigator the night of Oct. 19, 1998, before running a red light and smashing into a Ford Thunderbird driven by Susan Gutweiler, 47, of suburban Oakville.
Little had been celebrating his 24th birthday with teammates at a bar. After the crash, his blood-alcohol level measured 0.19, more than double the Missouri legal limit of 0.08.
Gutweiler died of her injuries the next day.
A little over a year later, after Little pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter, served 90 days in jail and was suspended by the NFL for the first eight games of the 1999 season, coach Dick Vermeil brought him back to the team.
The storm of protests continues to this day.
"I did what I thought was right for the person involved," Vermeil said recently from his home in Kansas City. "From time to time you can't please everybody."
The Cleveland Browns soon will face a similar question regarding wide receiver Donte' Stallworth, who Tuesday began serving a 30-day jail sentence for driving drunk and fatally hitting a 59-year-old construction worker who, while trying to catch a bus, was cutting across a Miami Beach street.
Before the Browns decide on Stallworth's return, they'll await the decision of Commissioner Roger Goodell, who is looking into disciplinary action. Next month, Goodell is expected to rule on an even larger controversy - the potential return of quarterback Michael Vick, who is scheduled to be released from home confinement July 20 after serving 23 months in custody for running a dog-fighting ring.
The short sentence negotiated by Stallworth shocked some fans. The same feeling ran through St. Louis when Little was jailed a decade ago. That controversy concerning the discipline for Little, who killed a mother of two, remains charged today.
"We can write a game story that does nothing more than quote Leonard Little regarding a play he made and we'll get e-mails saying, 'Why are you quoting that murderer?' " St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Bryan Burwell said. "Some people will never forgive him."
Mike Boland, president of the Missouri chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) when Gutweiler was killed, said Little spent too little time behind bars.
"For what Mr. Little did, it was definitely not enough," Boland said.
NFL teams dealing with the fallout of athletes who turn into criminals is nothing new. Nearly 40 years ago, in 1970, the Dallas Cowboys felt compelled to trade wide receiver Lance Rentzel after he was charged with exposing himself to a 10-year-old boy.
"(Coach) Tom Landry was offended and angry about it," said former Cowboys personnel director Gil Brandt. "You want to give a guy another chance, but you also want to do what's right. It's a hard option."
The Cowboys proved more tolerant when Michael Irvin had a series of runs-in with the law in the late '90s.
Cincinnati wide receiver Chris Henry tested the limits of the Bengals' tolerance when he was arrested in five separate incidents from 2005-08. Last pre-season, just when it seemed that Henry had used up his last chance, General Manager Mike Brown signed him to a two-year contract after both Chad Ochocinco and T.J. Houshmandzadeh went down with injuries.
One angry fan reacted by renting a billboard on a busy interstate that flashed the words "Chris Henry Again? ... Are You Serious?"
Henry hasn't made another misstep since. "I made up my mind I was going to stay away from that type of stuff," he said. "It's been pretty much a complete 360. It's what I had to do."
While questions have arisen over the character of Vick, Henry and scores of others involved in such incidents, Vermeil said it was Little's character that suggested he be given another chance as quickly as he was.
"He wasn't a problem drinker, nothing like that," Vermeil said. "He's a very quiet young man, humble, with a rural background, the kind of guy who would never speak up even in the linebacker meetings. To call him a murderer, that's just not him.
"He made a mistake. It's a fact there was an accident, and it's a fact that a person passed away. That was terrible. There's nothing worse for him than knowing he'd made a mistake and that mistake cost a person their life. It's something he'll never get rid of."
Little, who this fall will enter his 12th season, all with the Rams, was elected to the Pro Bowl in 2002. Over the years, he has transitioned from linebacker to defensive end.
MADD's Boland remains unhappy with the way the Rams - and Vermeil in particular - handled what transpired in the weeks and months after the accident, which occurred the day after the Rams visited Miami and lost 14-0 to the Dolphins.
"Their decision from the get-go was to look at the death of Mrs. Gutweiler and call it 'the situation,' " Boland said. "They never talked about him pleading guilty or committing a crime; it was always 'the situation.' "
On Nov. 14, 1999, the day Little was eligible to return, MADD staged a march from the crash site of the accident to the TWA Dome, stopping there to erect a memorial featuring a picture of Gutweiler and laying down 526 flowers, one for each victim of a drunk-driving accident in Missouri that year.
Little served 1,000 hours of community service as part of his sentence. Boland said it was hoped he might use his celebrity status to become a spokesman for their cause, and in the past few years he has addressed the issue with school and church groups. Those who know him say asking more would be asking too much.
"There are all kinds of personalities who would step up and do those things," Vermeil said. "Leonard is very quiet and withdrawn. That's not him."
Six years after the accident, in 2004, Little was again arrested for drunk driving and speeding, but the field-test results for blood-alcohol level were faulty and he refused a second test at the police station. He was ultimately acquitted of driving while intoxicated and convicted of the misdemeanor speeding charge.
Dan Lebowitz, executive director of Sport in Society, a research group at Northeastern University in Boston, said the cases of Little, Stallworth, Vick and others force sports fans to decide how much they're willing to tolerate.
"A lot of these athletes get a lot of money at a very young age, and the decisions they make are not the best," Lebowitz said. "You have to look at the entire equation: At what point do the negatives outweigh the positives?
"Athletes are people, and most of us are willing to give people a second chance. You just hope they make the most of it."
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2009/06/17/0617little.html
To me there is a huge difference between a man who made a stupid, dangerous and careless decision to drive after drinking and a man who soberly made deliberate decisions to do things Vick did...day after day for probably years.
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To me there is a huge difference between a man who made a stupid, dangerous and careless decision to drive after drinking and a man who soberly made deliberate decisions to do things Vick did...day after day for probably years.
exactly
that seems to be hard to understand for vick supporters
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To me there is a huge difference between a man who made a stupid, dangerous and careless decision to drive after drinking and a man who soberly made deliberate decisions to do things Vick did...day after day for probably years.
Stella I find it hard to believe that Little and Stallworth had not driven drunk in the past. They probably did it for years. In fact, Little was arrested for DUI years after his conviction (charges were later dropped). And the results of their crimes was the death of two people.
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stallworths and littles crimes resulted in the death of a human, vicks while I agree were extremely heinous and dispicable where to dogs. You cant really compare the two human life is intrensically more valuable then a dogs life. I love dogs but Im not going to choose my dogs over a person if it came down to it. He will get picked up and like someone mentioned would make one heck of an option for a team that ran a wild cat offense every now and again, a good punt or kick returner and probably a decent wide reciever I dont know if he would be very dominant he is only what 6 foot but I good underneth reciever with good speed that is if he can ever learn to tuck the football in...
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if you can torture innocent dogs, there's a strong possibility you would do the same to humans if you knew you could get away with it
i don't know why i have to keep mentioning it but little and stallworth had drunk driving ACCIDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there was no dog fighting accident ::)
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Not as a starting QB. Two seasons removed as a starting QB in the NFL is monumental in terms of timing, pocket presence, and awareness.
Playing touch football on the prison yard didn't help him maintain anything. But as a wildcat QB or as a WR lined up in the slot he would definitely help a team.
yeah, kind of hurt Tommy Maddox huh ::)
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if you can torture innocent dogs, there's a strong possibility you would do the same to humans if you knew you could get away with it
i don't know why i have to keep mentioning it but little and stallworth had drunk driving ACCIDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there was no dog fighting accident ::)
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Agree
Stella I find it hard to believe that Little and Stallworth had not driven drunk in the past. They probably did it for years. In fact, Little was arrested for DUI years after his conviction (charges were later dropped). And the results of their crimes was the death of two people.
But Beach, do you think those guys purposely and w/intent wanted to kill or hurt people? They made stupid, careless, dangerous decisions to drink and drive but do you really think they deliberately ran those people down?
Yes, they should pay their debt. But a man that did the things Vick did...and over and over again...has something wrong with him. There is something wrong there. Something sick and twisted.
I know people can change and I hope he has.
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Agree
But Beach, do you think those guys purposely and w/intent wanted to kill or hurt people? They made stupid, careless, dangerous decisions to drink and drive but do you really think they deliberately ran those people down?
Yes, they should pay their debt. But a man that did the things Vick did...and over and over again...has something wrong with him. There is something wrong there. Something sick and twisted.
I know people can change and I hope he has.
I don't think that a person gets behind the wheel drunk intending to run down a specific person. But anyone who drives drunk is engaging in reckless behavior. That person knows that their driving is impaired and that they have the potential to kill someone. Drunk drivers injure and kill many people every year. The analogy I've used before is going to a shooting range while drunk and "accidentally" shooting and killing someone else. A drunk driver is engaging in even more reckless behavior.
The law doesn't view a killing by a drunk driver as an accident, which is why they get charged with manslaughter. If it was truly an accident, the penalty would be a traffic ticket, if anything.
I understand what you mean about Vick. I think anyone who abuses animals is twisted. But I don't view him as some serial killer in training. He was just stupid. Didn't have good life training. Never really had to abide by the rules. Got zero education at Va Tech. And then suddenly he has more money than he can spend. I've said this about star athletes before, but that is a recipe for disaster.
You should look into Tony Dungy's background. One of the true gentlemen and great coaches in the NFL (now retired). Class act. A man of faith. If anyone can help Vick turn his life around it's Dungy.
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I don't think that a person gets behind the wheel drunk intending to run down a specific person. But anyone who drives drunk is engaging in reckless behavior. That person knows that their driving is impaired and that they have the potential to kill someone. Drunk drivers injure and kill many people every year. The analogy I've used before is going to a shooting range while drunk and "accidentally" shooting and killing someone else. A drunk driver is engaging in even more reckless behavior.
The law doesn't view a killing by a drunk driver as an accident, which is why they get charged with manslaughter. If it was truly an accident, the penalty would be a traffic ticket, if anything.
I understand what you mean about Vick. I think anyone who abuses animals is twisted. But I don't view him as some serial killer in training. He was just stupid. Didn't have good life training. Never really had to abide by the rules. Got zero education at Va Tech. And then suddenly he has more money than he can spend. I've said this about star athletes before, but that is a recipe for disaster.
You should look into Tony Dungy's background. One of the true gentlemen and great coaches in the NFL (now retired). Class act. A man of faith. If anyone can help Vick turn his life around it's Dungy.
stop making excuses for him, he was smart enough to keep his dog fighting ring a secret therefore he knew he was doing something wrong
as for dungy, how well did he help his own son?
vick won't dog fight anymore, that doesn't make him a "changed man" ::)
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I don't think that a person gets behind the wheel drunk intending to run down a specific person. But anyone who drives drunk is engaging in reckless behavior. That person knows that their driving is impaired and that they have the potential to kill someone. Drunk drivers injure and kill many people every year. The analogy I've used before is going to a shooting range while drunk and "accidentally" shooting and killing someone else. A drunk driver is engaging in even more reckless behavior.
The law doesn't view a killing by a drunk driver as an accident, which is why they get charged with manslaughter. If it was truly an accident, the penalty would be a traffic ticket, if anything.
I understand what you mean about Vick. I think anyone who abuses animals is twisted. But I don't view him as some serial killer in training. He was just stupid. Didn't have good life training. Never really had to abide by the rules. Got zero education at Va Tech. And then suddenly he has more money than he can spend. I've said this about star athletes before, but that is a recipe for disaster.
Vick's killings and torture were intentional. I don't see a drunk driver who accidentally kills someone as having the same mindset as someone like Vick. And I agree w/Earl, Vick tried to hide what he was doing. He wasn't just "making mistakes." I think we just see him in 2 different ways...and that's fine..you know you're my bro. But I will never respect any team he plays for again...not that it will be any big loss to them.
You should look into Tony Dungy's background. One of the true gentlemen and great coaches in the NFL (now retired). Class act. A man of faith. If anyone can help Vick turn his life around it's Dungy.
I've met Tony Dungy (briefly). I have a pic w/him. Very likeable person who seems quite genuine in his faith. If he wants to deal w/Vick, he is a better, much better person than me. I hope he can help him. He needs it.
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stop making excuses for him, he was smart enough to keep his dog fighting ring a secret therefore he knew he was doing something wrong
as for dungy, how well did he help his own son?
vick won't dog fight anymore, that doesn't make him a "changed man" ::)
E
Do you know the difference between an excuse and explanation? If not, let me know and I can explain it for you. :)
Yes, make a comment about Dungy's son who committed suicide. ::) Dude you have no class.
I don't know if Vick will be a changed man or not. Time will tell.
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Vick's killings and torture were intentional. I don't see a drunk driver who accidentally kills someone as having the same mindset as someone like Vick. And I agree w/Earl, Vick tried to hide what he was doing. He wasn't just "making mistakes." I think we just see him in 2 different ways...and that's fine..you know you're my bro. But I will never respect any team he plays for again...not that it will be any big loss to them.
I've met Tony Dungy (briefly). I have a pic w/him. Very likeable person who seems quite genuine in his faith. If he wants to deal w/Vick, he is a better, much better person than me. I hope he can help him. He needs it.
Stella it's all good. :) I understand where you're coming from. I actually refused to draft Randy McMichael in fantasy football after he beat up his woman. I could probably never forgive a player who abused his wife or a child. (I also refuse to draft any member of the Dallas Cowboys, but that's another subject. :))
Very cool that you've met Dungy. I'd like to meet him one day. We'll see what he can do. Vick is getting a rare opportunity to get the pot of gold again.
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Do you know the difference between an excuse and explanation? If not, let me know and I can explain it for you. :)
Yes, make a comment about Dungy's son who committed suicide. ::) Dude you have no class.
I don't know if Vick will be a changed man or not. Time will tell.
yes i do
apparently you don't, kinda like how you don't know the difference between accident and intent
you can call it a classless comment if you think it helps your argument, or you can say that he clearly didn't help his son get the help he needed
he's a good man but he's not some miracle worker that solves everybody's problems
vick will be a changed man, dog fighting will no longer be a part of his offseason entertainment so maybe he'll start drowning stray cats ;)
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yes i do
apparently you don't, kinda like how you don't know the difference between accident and intent
you can call it a classless comment if you think it helps your argument, or you can say that he clearly didn't help his son get the help he needed
he's a good man but he's not some miracle worker that solves everybody's problems
vick will be a changed man, dog fighting will no longer be a part of his offseason entertainment so maybe he'll start drowning stray cats ;)
E
No you don't. That's why you told me to stop making excuses for Vick. I never once condoned or tried to excuse his conduct. If you understood the difference between explaining conduct and justifying conduct, you wouldn't have made that kind of statement.
Don't try and sugar coat what you said about Dungy's son. That was just a classless remark. Dungy's tragic loss doesn't have squat to do with him mentoring Vick. ::)
Who called Dungy a miracle worker? ::)
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No you don't. That's why you told me to stop making excuses for Vick. I never once condoned or tried to excuse his conduct. If you understood the difference between explaining conduct and justifying conduct, you wouldn't have made that kind of statement.
Don't try and sugar coat what you said about Dungy's son. That was just a classless remark. Dungy's tragic loss doesn't have squat to do with him mentoring Vick. ::)
Who called Dungy a miracle worker? ::)
vick knew he was being a criminal, claiming "he wasn't raised right" or anything else is just an excuse and a rather lame one for a guy with 100's of millions in the bank, it's not like he needed the spare cash like a typical dog fighter
i'm not sugarcoating anything this is getbig son, being fake politically correct isn't needed around here
many people act as if dungy is a miracle worker, like he's some messiah and talking to vick will heal all wounds ::)
he failed his own son, that's the truth DEAL WITH IT :P
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vick knew he was being a criminal, claiming "he wasn't raised right" or anything else is just an excuse and a rather lame one for a guy with 100's of millions in the bank, it's not like he needed the spare cash like a typical dog fighter
i'm not sugarcoating anything this is getbig son, being fake politically correct isn't needed around here
many people act as if dungy is a miracle worker, like he's some messiah and talking to vick will heal all wounds ::)
he failed his own son, that's the truth DEAL WITH IT :P
E
shut up little bitch...hows about that
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Who needs him badly enough to take on all the negative publicity?
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shut up little bitch...hows about that
how about no cock gobbler don't support PITTSBURGH'S team go support the cowboys they welcome frontrunners with open arms :P
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how about no cock gobbler don't support PITTSBURGH'S team go support the cowboys they welcome frontrunners with open arms :P
E
i only like the steelers...i liked them since i was old enough to watch football you small chump...i like defense and running...therefore i liked the steelers...go life a weight or some shit you small bitch
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i only like the steelers...i liked them since i was old enough to watch football you small chump...i like defense and running...therefore i liked the steelers...go life a weight or some shit you small bitch
haha ok "little mal"
i guess you weren't a "fan" when tommy maddox was running the show ::)
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haha ok "little mal"
i guess you weren't a "fan" when tommy maddox was running the show ::)
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sure was...i stated that earlier...chump...and little..you got pics to show youre bigger...
i been a fan since brister was the qb and lake was a rookie. lake went to ucla..my mother worked there. i got into games free...
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Who needs him badly enough to take on all the negative publicity?
Plenty of teams. The protests will be short lived.
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Plenty of teams. The protests will be short lived.
What gives, why isnt he signed yet
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Plenty of teams. The protests will be short lived.
Economy sucks and people need something to get riled up about.
Vick is definitely a talented player/athlete but unless a team is actually in contention spending the money may not make sense. Despite excess baggage he's unlikely to come cheap. Spending what getting the contract will take to have him sit the bench a year while things cool down doesn't seem like a good use of money.
I really can't remember much of his playing but wouldn't spend the dough unless it would improve playoff chances. I do find it kind of ironic that the reinstatement probably stopped him from going to Europe and making assloads of money without having to deal with people's gayness over animals. Obviously they've done the math and want to make some cash off this mess.
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What gives, why isnt he signed yet
Not sure. I thought someone would have snapped him up on day 1. I'll be surprised if he isn't in someone's camp by the end of the week.
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Economy sucks and people need something to get riled up about.
Vick is definitely a talented player/athlete but unless a team is actually in contention spending the money may not make sense. Despite excess baggage he's unlikely to come cheap. Spending what getting the contract will take to have him sit the bench a year while things cool down doesn't seem like a good use of money.
I really can't remember much of his playing but wouldn't spend the dough unless it would improve playoff chances. I do find it kind of ironic that the reinstatement probably stopped him from going to Europe and making assloads of money without having to deal with people's gayness over animals. Obviously they've done the math and want to make some cash off this mess.
NFL Europe is no more.
I doubt he gets anything more than the league minimum. Not sure what this is for him, but we're probably talking something around $500k?
There are a number of teams that would immediately improve if they signed him, including the Niners, Seahawks, Rams, Ravens, Bills, Vikings, etc.
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sure was...i stated that earlier...chump...and little..you got pics to show youre bigger...
i been a fan since brister was the qb and lake was a rookie. lake went to ucla..my mother worked there. i got into games free...
don't you feel like a clown supporting them when you aren't from the burgh and you don't like the city? if not, you should :P
you won't see me supporting any nba teams, even though i enjoy the games every now and then
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don't you feel like a clown supporting them when you aren't from the burgh and you don't like the city? if not, you should :P
you won't see me supporting any nba teams, even though i enjoy the games every now and then
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youre also a scrawny little shit..you dont see me trying to be like you in that respect either...
I dont have to get your approval to like a team..you worship kevin levrone...gtfoh...
also..you keep saying "youre black youre black"
so is the head coach of your favorite team. So is your teams last 2 superbowl mvps. So is your teams 2 hall of fame wideouts. Dont get into this race shit with me you pathetic little muscleworshiping fuck.
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youre also a scrawny little shit..you dont see me trying to be like you in that respect either...
I dont have to get your approval to like a team..you worship kevin levrone...gtfoh...
also..you keep saying "youre black youre black"
so is the head coach of your favorite team. So is your teams last 2 superbowl mvps. So is your teams 2 hall of fame wideouts. Dont get into this race shit with me you pathetic little muscleworshiping fuck.
meltdown maybe go go lift some tires and work off some of that anger
i just pointed out what whoopi goldberg said, according to her black people love dog fighting and it appears to me that the black getbiggers and black coaches fully support vick
like i said the steelers are pittsburgh, liking one without the other is quite stupid, just saying ;)
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meltdown maybe go go lift some tires and work off some of that anger
i just pointed out what whoopi goldberg said, according to her black people love dog fighting and it appears to me that the black getbiggers and black coaches fully support vick
like i said the steelers are pittsburgh, liking one without the other is quite stupid, just saying ;)
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Whoopie Goldberg doesn't speak for all black people.
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Whoopie Goldberg doesn't speak for all black people.
Yes she does. Just ask Earl.
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Yes she does. Just ask Earl.
Hey Beach...i think he is going to the 49ers....
Also..Lakers vs the Cleveland Lebrons on christmas....BOOM
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Hey Beach...i think he is going to the 49ers....
Also..Lakers vs the Cleveland Lebrons on christmas....BOOM
I hope so. That would make the most sense from a football standpoint. Strong head coach. Unsettled QB position. Great running game. Good veteran WR in Bruce and promising rooke WR in Crabtree. A very talented TE. But we'll see. GB might be interested. That would be sort of a weird fit.
LA v. Clev on Christmas day? Love it. :)
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Whoopie Goldberg doesn't speak for all black people.
yeah she does, that's why 'the view' hired her ;)
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yeah she does, that's why 'the view' hired her ;)
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Does that mean Obama speaks for everyone? :)
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Does that mean Obama speaks for everyone? :)
he roots for the steelers (after the bears) and LOVES the city of pittsburgh so yes :)
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Dungy said 5 teams are interested and he would be signed by the end of the week.
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they were saying about 2 weeks ago that he was "close to signing with a team"
sounds like smoke screens to me, vick is hoping one team considering signing him gets nervous and jumps the gun
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they were saying about 2 weeks ago that he was "close to signing with a team"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4397938
Outta the 2 teams I didn't want it to be it's one of them
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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perfect fit, philly is full of thugs
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disgusting... pathetic...
hope they lose some fans, but I think quite a few football fans couldn't care any less. I've heard sports commentators come down harder on a player busted for smoking pot than they have over what he did.
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He did his time. Get over it
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He did his time. Get over it
no convict.
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no convict.
Lovely that someone with the username Hugo Chavez is up in arms about Michael Vick
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Lovely that someone with the username Hugo Chavez is up in arms about Michael Vick
Does that even make sense? lol... How'd you put that together? What's your logic here convict? Did you read some neocon comic book where Hugo Chavez does time for dog fighting then gets signed by an NFL team? ::)
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I don't have any issues with him coming back.
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Threw my formerly beloved rhinestone Eagles shirt on the ground in front of the garbage cans last night. Someone took it before the cans were picked up ::)
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Threw my formerly beloved rhinestone Eagles shirt on the ground in front of the garbage cans last night. Someone took it before the cans were picked up ::)
oh brother ::)
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oh brother ::)
Was it you >:(
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this guy should STFU.
Bill Smith, founder of Main Line Animal Rescue in the Philadelphia suburbs, said the group will be renting three billboards near the Eagles' stadium blasting the signing of Vick.
Smith said he was stunned while listening to Vick at the news conference.
"I'm really shocked that he's coming to Philadelphia," Smith said. "He kept talking about second chances. His dogs didn't have a second chance ... There are a lot of people out there who deserve second chances more than Michael Vick."
Vick deserves a second chance.
With Eagles, Vick gets second chance
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4398956 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4398956)
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have you read the list of shit he did to the dogs? I don't think it's ever been suggested that a second chance means getting your old job back. His second chance is finishing his prison time and being released. Let the guy find a job where he won't be a role model. This is worse than gambling and baseball never gave Pete Rose a second chance.
He electrocuted, drown, hung, shot and stomped dogs. What would he have had to have done that would have been to much for the NFL? Buttfucked the dogs before killing them?
Oh brother, so self-righteous. Do you eat meat, btw?
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oh brother ::)
Seconded
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Oh brother, so self-righteous. Do you eat meat, btw?
another comment that doesn't make any sense. congrats. If any rancher was caught torturing their livestock by doing what he did to dogs, he'd have a price to pay. Somehow I think you'll have a hard time showing me a rancher that has their livestock rip eachother apart fighting, then get stomped to death before being cut up and sold ::) and no, I don't eat dog meat ::)
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another comment that doesn't make any sense. congrats. If any rancher was caught torturing their livestock by doing what he did to dogs, he'd have a price to pay. Somehow I think you'll have a hard time showing me a rancher that has their livestock rip eachother apart fighting, then get stomped to death before being cut up and sold ::) and no, I don't eat dog meat ::)
Yeah, I'm sure all your meat is "free range" (whatever that means). ::) Pick up a book, or even better go to a feed-yard or slaughterhouse in New Mexico, Kansas, Texas. Let's not even talk about chickens and pork.
BTW, do you always need everything spelled out for you? .... you come across as someone real slow. But I guess that's not surprising for someoen who idolizes Oo-go Chavez
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Yeah, I'm sure all your meat is "free range" (whatever that means). ::) Pick up a book, or even better go to a feed-yard or slaughterhouse in New Mexico, Kansas, Texas. Let's not even talk about chickens and pork.
BTW, do you always need everything spelled out for you? .... you come across as someone real slow. But I guess that's not surprising for someoen who idolizes Oo-go Chavez
yea actually i do buy free range products whenever possible. What makes you think I'm for poor treatment of farm animals? Are you pro-dog torture? lol, and you think I'm slow?
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yea actually i do buy free range products whenever possible. What makes you think I'm for poor treatment of farm animals? Are you pro-dog torture? lol, and you think I'm slow?
You are slow
I never said you were pro-dog torture, Oogo. I'm just suggesting that you don't give a shit about torture that isn't graphically presented to you, Oogo. Keep eating that steak, eggs and bacon and feeling self-righteous
And WTF does "Free range" mean? Nobody polices that. Not the FDA. It means whatever the big corporate producer wants it to mean, Oogo. I'm sure the big corporate producer is really concerned about the animals welfare ::)
Stay in the shallow end, Oogo. Clearly, like your namesake, information doesn't mean shit to you
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You are slow
I never said you were pro-dog torture, Oogo. I'm just suggesting that you don't give a shit about torture that isn't graphically presented to you, Oogo. Keep eating that steak, eggs and bacon and feeling self-righteous
And WTF does "Free range" mean? Nobody polices that. Not the FDA. It means whatever the big corporate producer wants it to mean, Oogo. I'm sure the big corporate producer is really concerned about the animals welfare ::)
Stay in the shallow end, Oogo. Clearly, like your namesake, information doesn't mean shit to you
wow, you are slow. I asked you if you were pro dog torture, since you assumed I didn't care about farm animals! I just got done telling you I do buy free range products and you go on to accuse me of not caring how the animals are treated? LOL SLOW!!!!
you're also full of shit. The meat I buy is free range organic and good to go.
"We work with independent inspectors to ensure that our producers and processors adhere to our high quality standards for meat — the strictest in the industry — to offer you the highest-quality meat products available anywhere. And it's not just quality: we offer an incredible variety of meats including game, duck, sausages and low-fat cuts, in addition to turkey and chicken raised on vegetarian diets.
We offer organic meats, raised humanely and processed with a measure of compassion, custom cut to your specifications when you want it. We also make your life easy by creating oven-ready meals, stuffed meats and kabobs, and by providing cooking instructions and personal recommendations—not to mention complimentary services, including seasoning and marinating.
It's all about quality and freshness and caring: farmers and ranchers caring about the welfare of the animal, processors caring about the quality of the product, and our butchers caring about you. From grass-fed beef to uncured hams and bacon, it's all quality all the time, and the best-tasting meat around.
"
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/meat.php
sorry to disapoint you and your ASSumptions.
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wow, you are slow. I aske you if you were pro dog torture! I just got done telling you I do buy free range products and you go on to accuse me of not caring how the animals are treated? LOL SLOW!!!!
you're also full of shit. The meat I buy is free range organic and good to go.
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/meat.php
sorry to disapoint you and your ASSumptions.
Ok, so I like to post in a hurry and often dont' read the post fully. Obviously, I'm not pro-dog torture. It's a screwed up thing and he did his time for it. Now we move on. But for some stupid/self-righteous reason you can't.
I know the owner of whole foods and he is a good guy and actually very involved in the movement for humane treatment of animals. He is actually good friends with the guy who wrote the best book on how "food animals" are treated in the US and has been key in getting the law changed in states like Florida (farrowing crates)
However, even whole foods cannot police all its producers. I like to think that things are improving, but after seeing how bad things really are, I don't know how much improvement there can be. the kind of volume that big grocery chains need almost always results in what any sane person would consider torture. the only way to be sure that no animals were severely mistreated on their way to your dining room table is to raise them yourself and kill them yourself. obviously impractical.
Anyway youre still slow, Oo-go, and I will consider you so as long as you worship Oogo Chavez
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Ok, so I like to post in a hurry and often dont' read the post fully. Obviously, I'm not pro-dog torture. It's a screwed up thing and he did his time for it. Now we move on. But for some stupid/self-righteous reason you can't.
I know the owner of whole foods and he is a good guy and actually very involved in the movement for humane treatment of animals. He is actually good friends with the guy who wrote the best book on how "food animals" are treated in the US and has been key in getting the law changed in states like Florida (farrowing crates)
However, even whole foods cannot police all its producers. I like to think that things are improving, but after seeing how bad things really are, I don't know how much improvement there can be. the kind of volume that big grocery chains need almost always results in what any sane person would consider torture. the only way to be sure that no animals were severely mistreated on their way to your dining room table is to raise them yourself and kill them yourself. obviously impractical.
Anyway youre still slow, Oo-go, and I will consider you so as long as you worship Oogo Chavez
Sorry, you're wrong again. whole foods seperate the meats that were certified by a third party from the stuff that was never inspected but just stated to be. So when you buy the certified you pay a little extra but you know this is meat from an inspected producer. I've questioned them on this and I know this because I actually do buy the meat. Go in and look for yourself. It runs a little more but you know what was inspected and what wasn't.
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Sorry, you're wrong again. whole foods seperate the meats that were certified by a third party from the stuff that was never inspected but just stated to be. So when you buy the certified you pay a little extra but you know this is meat from an inspected producer. I've questioned them on this and I know this because I actually do buy the meat. Go in and look for yourself. It runs a little more but you know what was inspected and what wasn't.
Slow-go, John Mackey himself said in my presence the present system is not what it should be, but I'm sure some check-out person knows better. I think Whole foods is better than 99% of the stores out there, but the system is not anywhere near where it should be because there are no uniform standards, let alone rules. Did you even find out what they were "inspecting" for? How they define "free range" and "organic"?
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Gene baur, Farm Sanctuary: Changing Hearts and Minds About Animals and Food
Gene is good friends with John Mackey, WHole foods founder. Both are good people and the book is great
Book is available on Amazon.com.
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Slow-go, John Mackey himself said in my presence the present system is not what it should be, but I'm sure some check-out person knows better. I think Whole foods is better than 99% of the stores out there, but the system is not anywhere near where it should be because there are no uniform standards, let alone rules. Did you even find out what they were "inspecting" for? How they define "free range" and "organic"?
yes. They actually had little pamphlets to explain what the different categories are. When I asked, the guy in the meat department gave them to me and helped explain what was what. And yes, it's not what it should be. The ideal is that it's all inspected, but you have to pay a little more for the meat that is actually inspected and they sell meat that is stated to be but they only have the producers word on it and that meat is a little cheaper and not labeled certified inspected.
Your entire point is actually null and void anyway. Your point was that I only cared about the dogs because I knew about it and ignored what I could not see. Well clearly I've demonstrated that I do care. If a rancher is cheating the labels, that doesn't mean I think it's ok that he did that. He's in the wrong, not me. I'm the one attempting to buy the humane product which says I do care and that makes your point against me wrong.
nice try anyway...
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yes. They actually had little pamphlets to explain what the different categories are. When I asked, the guy in the meat department gave them to me and helped explain what was what. And yes, it's not what it should be. The ideal is that it's all inspected, but you have to pay a little more for the meat that is actually inspected and they sell meat that is stated to be but they only have the producers word on it and that meat is a little cheaper and not labeled certified inspected.
Your entire point is actually null and void anyway. Your point was that I only cared about the dogs because I knew about it and ignored what I could not see. Well clearly I've demonstrated that I do care. If a rancher is cheating the labels, that doesn't mean I think it's ok that he did that. He's in the wrong, not me. I'm the one attempting to buy the humane product which says I do care and that makes your point against me wrong.
nice try anyway...
::)
Obviously I didn't know you were trying to do something (which i still think is ultimately a small step, but it is a step)
Also I'm not saying you're the same as Vick, but you are a hypocrite for deciding to treat him like a villain. I don't find you complaining about ALbertson's or Costco or Fred Meyer, just Michael Vick.
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::)
Obviously I didn't know you were trying to do something (which i still think is ultimately a small step, but it is a step)
Also I'm not saying you're the same as Vick, but you are a hypocrite for deciding to treat him like a villain. I don't find you complaining about ALbertson's or Costco or Fred Meyer, just Michael Vick.
And Albertsons, Costco and Fred Meyer are role models for kids? I didn't say he didn't deserve a second chance. Clearly he's getting that by serving his sentense and being released. Nobody is guaranteed their old job back and if you want it back shouldn't you do something FIRST to show people why you deserve it? The guy did some really heinous shit, that's not a lot to ask for. lol, the NFL will have a complete meltdown over a wardrobe malfunction stating what a family oriented organization they are, but hey, no biggie torturing dogs, come on back! Real family friendly, great message lol... and no I'm not a hypocrite unless you're asking me to be superhuman in finding everything everyone is doing wrong and exposing it. I comment on things as much as I have time to do. There's only one of me and this story is being talked about now. Not Albertsons. I'm not a hypocrite. I would be a hypocrite if I justified the same shit in one area and condemned it in another. I'm clearly not doing that am I?
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And Albertsons, Costco and Fred Meyer are role models for kids? I didn't say he didn't deserve a second chance. Clearly he's getting that by serving his sentense and being released. Nobody is guaranteed their old job back and if you want it back shouldn't you do something FIRST to show people why you deserve it? The guy did some really heinous shit, that's not a lot to ask for. lol, the NFL will have a complete meltdown over a wardrobe malfunction stating what a family oriented organization they are, but hey, no biggie torturing dogs, come on back! Real family friendly, great message lol... and no I'm not a hypocrite unless you're asking me to be superhuman in finding everything everyone is doing wrong and exposing it. I comment on things as much as I have time to do. There's only one of me and this story is being talked about now. Not Albertsons. I'm not a hypocrite. I would be a hypocrite if I justified the same shit in one area and condemned it in another. I'm clearly not doing that am I?
Whatever, mayne. Tell your kids he did heinous shit and he also did time. if he screws up, he's going to be in a world of trouble. All life lessons there. And before you get mad about a particular kind of animal torture and call me a convict (WTF?), spare a thought for the billions of animals in the US that have just as miserable lives as any of the dogs he tortured. Your kids deserve to know about that because it's shit that goes into their body.
I'm out.
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Whatever, mayne. Tell your kids he did heinous shit and he also did time. if he screws up, he's going to be in a world of trouble. All life lessons there. And before you get mad about a particular kind of animal torture and call me a convict (WTF?), spare a thought for the billions of animals in the US that have just as miserable lives as any of the dogs he tortured. Your kids deserve to know about that because it's shit that goes into their body.
I'm out.
fine, but I'm not for that other shit either. As an example, if some abusive dog kennel is busted, I'm fucking outraged at the assholes who did it and I sure wouldn't want to see them enter the business again after they did their time. I don't think that's a promise of getting a second chance. Be like thinking a convicted bank robber deserves a second chance at his last job handling money for a business. Vick was a public figure that kids look up to and he did something that spoiled his career bigtime. Because he did his time doesn't mean the events didn't happen. If he wants that kind of second chance, I think it should be earned before being given it. Not so in this case, he's just given it back on his word that he'll earn it. Not good enough imo.
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Hugo, sure I read the crazy shit he did. He did his time, he can now be free to do whatever he wants.
We'll see how he does on & off the field before I make any judgments.
IMO if he isn't playing football or in the NFL in some capacity he'll be up to no good.
Athletes as role models is an oxymoron.
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Good for him. I think Philly is actually a good spot for him. Good owner, great starting but injury prone QB, good weapon in Westbrook, drafted a couple WRs the past two years, and a good head coach. Would have loved for SF to sign him, but he'll do fine in Philly.
Really surprised at the money. Thought it would have been less.
I watched the press conference and was impressed. He said all the right things. No excuses. He's doing volunteer work with the Humane Society in multiple cities. Dungy was by his side. He has everything he needs to makeup for his mistakes and restart his career.
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I watched the press conference and was impressed. He said all the right things. .
yes he said exactly what he was told to say ::)
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Athletes as role models is an oxymoron.
I'm not the one who puts that image out there. They are.
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yes he said exactly what he was told to say ::)
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Well duh.
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He's doing volunteer work with the Humane Society in multiple cities.
I hope they don't leave him alone w/the animals.
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people think he paid his due to society and that sounds all swell and good, however, he is a sociopath, sociopaths cannot be rehabilitated...it is only a matter of time before his illness stikes again.
And remember this man did not just gamble on dog fights, he tortured animals by electrocution, burning and starvation. He put lost family dogs in the same ring with pyschotic drugged up pitt bulls to be mauled to death.
Once a sociopath always a sociopath. Sorry but true.
He did not f##k up ::) As nycbull said; he's a sociopath and he's not going to change. He's no better than stuff I've scraped off the bottom of my shoe >:(
Profile of the Sociopath
• Glibness and Superficial Charm
• Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
• Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
• Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have accomplices The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
• Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
• Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
• Poor Behavioral ControlsImpulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
• Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
• Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others/culture, even for acts they obviously committed. .
• Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
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I hope they don't leave him alone w/the animals.
::)
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I hope they don't leave him alone w/the animals.
I think has last two Humane Society sponsored meetings were with kids.
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Princess I think you could definitely argue that his behavior sociopathic before he went to prison. Since going to prison, I don't think his behavior fits the profile. We won't know for certain if he has been rehabilitated for probably a few years, but he's definitely doing the right things.
Here is an editorial from the Philadelphia Inquirer that I agree with:
Editorial: Vick earned a second chance
The Eagles' decision to sign Michael Vick was equal parts courageous and shrewd.
Owner Jeffrey Lurie, President Joe Banner, and Coach Andy Reid knew that hiring Vick would risk a public backlash. The former Atlanta Falcons quarterback pleaded guilty in 2007 to operating a dogfighting ring and killing several dogs in gruesome fashion.
Vick was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison - harsh time especially when compared with the 30-day sentence another pro football player completed recently for killing a person while driving drunk.
The National Football League suspended Vick indefinitely without pay in August 2007. After Vick completed his prison sentence, Commissioner Roger Goodell authorized him to begin playing again.
Many people are outraged that the Eagles are giving Vick a second chance. Some wish Vick would suffer the same fate as the animals he tortured, and argue that he shouldn't be allowed to play football again.
That's wrongheaded, mean-spirited, and contrary to the basis of the U.S. justice system. Vick has paid his debt to society. In addition to punishment, prison is about rehabilitation.
Michael Vick deserves a second chance.
He also deserves a chance to earn a living. The legal fees and prison time have left Vick bankrupt. Vick's profession just happens to be that of a professional athlete. At age 29, he is still capable of doing his job well and becoming a productive member of society.
Vick's behavior since pleading guilty demonstrates so far that he has learned his lesson. He understands playing pro football is a privilege, not a right. Vick knows that all eyes are on him and there is no margin for error.
He has surrounded himself with respected mentors. Vick has also teamed with the Humane Society to use his plight and notoriety to speak against animal cruelty, thus turning a negative into a positive teaching moment.
The Eagles took a public-relations risk in hiring Vick. Their decision shows they believe athletes are capable of redeeming themselves. Kudos to the Eagles for giving Vick that opportunity.
The team is not above admitting that signing Vick is also a business decision. He has the potential to help the Eagles win a Super Bowl. That drove the decision. That is the way of the NFL and most other businesses.
Michael Vick accepted his punishment and paid his debt to society. He shouldn't be denied a second chance, by the NFL, the Eagles, or anyone else.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20090816_Editorial__Vick_earned_a_second_chance.html