So Body, how would feel if Vick goes to the Pats?

[Hugo Chavez]

Slow-go, John Mackey himself said in my presence the present system is not what it should be, but I'm sure some check-out person knows better.  I think Whole foods is better than 99% of the stores out there, but the system is not anywhere near where it should be because there are no uniform standards, let alone rules.  Did you even find out what they were "inspecting" for?  How they define "free range" and "organic"? 

yes.  They actually had little pamphlets to explain what the different categories are.  When I asked, the guy in the meat department gave them to me and helped explain what was what.  And yes, it's not what it should be.  The ideal is that it's all inspected, but you have to pay a little more for the meat that is actually inspected and they sell meat that is stated to be but they only have the producers word on it and that meat is a little cheaper and not labeled certified inspected.

Your entire point is actually null and void anyway.  Your point was that I only cared about the dogs because I knew about it and ignored what I could not see.  Well clearly I've demonstrated that I do care.  If a rancher is cheating the labels, that doesn't mean I think it's ok that he did that.  He's in the wrong, not me.  I'm the one attempting to buy the humane product which says I do care and that makes your point against me wrong.

nice try anyway...

[Signifying Monkey]

yes.  They actually had little pamphlets to explain what the different categories are.  When I asked, the guy in the meat department gave them to me and helped explain what was what.  And yes, it's not what it should be.  The ideal is that it's all inspected, but you have to pay a little more for the meat that is actually inspected and they sell meat that is stated to be but they only have the producers word on it and that meat is a little cheaper and not labeled certified inspected.

Your entire point is actually null and void anyway.  Your point was that I only cared about the dogs because I knew about it and ignored what I could not see.  Well clearly I've demonstrated that I do care.  If a rancher is cheating the labels, that doesn't mean I think it's ok that he did that.  He's in the wrong, not me.  I'm the one attempting to buy the humane product which says I do care and that makes your point against me wrong.

nice try anyway...

  

Obviously I didn't know you were trying to do something (which i still think is ultimately a small step, but it is a step)

Also I'm not saying you're the same as Vick, but you are a hypocrite for deciding to treat him like a villain. I don't find you complaining about ALbertson's or Costco or Fred Meyer, just Michael Vick. 

[Hugo Chavez]

 

Obviously I didn't know you were trying to do something (which i still think is ultimately a small step, but it is a step)

Also I'm not saying you're the same as Vick, but you are a hypocrite for deciding to treat him like a villain. I don't find you complaining about ALbertson's or Costco or Fred Meyer, just Michael Vick. 

And Albertsons, Costco and Fred Meyer are role models for kids?  I didn't say he didn't deserve a second chance.  Clearly he's getting that by serving his sentense and being released.  Nobody is guaranteed their old job back and if you want it back shouldn't you do something FIRST to show people why you deserve it?  The guy did some really heinous shit, that's not a lot to ask for.  lol, the NFL will have a complete meltdown over a wardrobe malfunction stating what a family oriented organization they are, but hey, no biggie torturing dogs, come on back!  Real family friendly, great message lol...  and no I'm not a hypocrite unless you're asking me to be superhuman in finding everything everyone is doing wrong and exposing it.  I comment on things as much as I have time to do.  There's only one of me and this story is being talked about now.  Not Albertsons.  I'm not a hypocrite.  I would be a hypocrite if I justified the same shit in one area and condemned it in another.  I'm clearly not doing that am I?

[Signifying Monkey]

And Albertsons, Costco and Fred Meyer are role models for kids?  I didn't say he didn't deserve a second chance.  Clearly he's getting that by serving his sentense and being released.  Nobody is guaranteed their old job back and if you want it back shouldn't you do something FIRST to show people why you deserve it?  The guy did some really heinous shit, that's not a lot to ask for.  lol, the NFL will have a complete meltdown over a wardrobe malfunction stating what a family oriented organization they are, but hey, no biggie torturing dogs, come on back!  Real family friendly, great message lol...  and no I'm not a hypocrite unless you're asking me to be superhuman in finding everything everyone is doing wrong and exposing it.  I comment on things as much as I have time to do.  There's only one of me and this story is being talked about now.  Not Albertsons.  I'm not a hypocrite.  I would be a hypocrite if I justified the same shit in one area and condemned it in another.  I'm clearly not doing that am I?

Whatever, mayne.  Tell your kids he did heinous shit and he also did time. if he screws up, he's going to be in a world of trouble. All life lessons there.  And before you get mad about a particular kind of animal torture and call me a convict (WTF?), spare a thought for the billions of animals in the US that have just as miserable lives as any of the dogs he tortured. Your kids deserve to know about that because it's shit that goes into their body.

I'm out.

[Hugo Chavez]

Whatever, mayne.  Tell your kids he did heinous shit and he also did time. if he screws up, he's going to be in a world of trouble. All life lessons there.  And before you get mad about a particular kind of animal torture and call me a convict (WTF?), spare a thought for the billions of animals in the US that have just as miserable lives as any of the dogs he tortured. Your kids deserve to know about that because it's shit that goes into their body.

I'm out.

fine, but I'm not for that other shit either.  As an example, if some abusive dog kennel is busted, I'm fucking outraged at the assholes who did it and I sure wouldn't want to see them enter the business again after they did their time.  I don't think that's a promise of getting a second chance.  Be like thinking a convicted bank robber deserves a second chance at his last job handling money for a business.  Vick was a public figure that kids look up to and he did something that spoiled his career bigtime.  Because he did his time doesn't mean the events didn't happen.  If he wants that kind of second chance, I think it should be earned before being given it.  Not so in this case, he's just given it back on his word that he'll earn it.  Not good enough imo.

[MB_722]

Hugo, sure I read the crazy shit he did. He did his time, he can now be free to do whatever he wants.

We'll see how he does on & off the field before I make any judgments.

IMO if he isn't playing football or in the NFL in some capacity he'll be up to no good.

Athletes as role models is an oxymoron.

[Dos Equis]

Good for him.  I think Philly is actually a good spot for him.  Good owner, great starting but injury prone QB, good weapon in Westbrook, drafted a couple WRs the past two years, and a good head coach.  Would have loved for SF to sign him, but he'll do fine in Philly. 

Really surprised at the money.  Thought it would have been less. 

I watched the press conference and was impressed.  He said all the right things.  No excuses.  He's doing volunteer work with the Humane Society in multiple cities.  Dungy was by his side.  He has everything he needs to makeup for his mistakes and restart his career.     

[Earl1972]

I watched the press conference and was impressed.  He said all the right things.  .     

yes he said exactly what he was told to say

E

[Hugo Chavez]

Athletes as role models is an oxymoron.

I'm not the one who puts that image out there.  They are.

[Dos Equis]

yes he said exactly what he was told to say

E

Well duh. 

[Butterbean]

He's doing volunteer work with the Humane Society in multiple cities. 

I hope they don't leave him alone w/the animals.

[Princess L]

people think he paid his due to society and that sounds all swell and good, however, he is a sociopath, sociopaths cannot be rehabilitated...it is only a matter of time before his illness stikes again. 

And remember this man did not just gamble on dog fights, he tortured animals by electrocution, burning and starvation. He put lost family dogs in the same ring with pyschotic drugged up pitt bulls to be mauled to death.

Once a sociopath always a sociopath. Sorry but true.

He did not f##k up  As nycbull said; he's a sociopath and he's not going to change.  He's no better than stuff I've scraped off the bottom of my shoe 


Profile of the Sociopath

•   Glibness and Superficial Charm
•   Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
•   Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
•   Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have accomplices  The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
•   Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

•   Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
•   Poor Behavioral ControlsImpulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
•   Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
•   Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others/culture, even for acts they obviously committed. .
•   Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
 

[Signifying Monkey]

I hope they don't leave him alone w/the animals.

 

[Dos Equis]

I hope they don't leave him alone w/the animals.

I think has last two Humane Society sponsored meetings were with kids.

[Dos Equis]

Princess I think you could definitely argue that his behavior sociopathic before he went to prison.  Since going to prison, I don't think his behavior fits the profile.  We won't know for certain if he has been rehabilitated for probably a few years, but he's definitely doing the right things. 

Here is an editorial from the Philadelphia Inquirer that I agree with:

Editorial: Vick earned a second chance

The Eagles' decision to sign Michael Vick was equal parts courageous and shrewd.

Owner Jeffrey Lurie, President Joe Banner, and Coach Andy Reid knew that hiring Vick would risk a public backlash. The former Atlanta Falcons quarterback pleaded guilty in 2007 to operating a dogfighting ring and killing several dogs in gruesome fashion.

Vick was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison - harsh time especially when compared with the 30-day sentence another pro football player completed recently for killing a person while driving drunk.

The National Football League suspended Vick indefinitely without pay in August 2007. After Vick completed his prison sentence, Commissioner Roger Goodell authorized him to begin playing again.

Many people are outraged that the Eagles are giving Vick a second chance. Some wish Vick would suffer the same fate as the animals he tortured, and argue that he shouldn't be allowed to play football again.

That's wrongheaded, mean-spirited, and contrary to the basis of the U.S. justice system. Vick has paid his debt to society. In addition to punishment, prison is about rehabilitation.

Michael Vick deserves a second chance.

He also deserves a chance to earn a living. The legal fees and prison time have left Vick bankrupt. Vick's profession just happens to be that of a professional athlete. At age 29, he is still capable of doing his job well and becoming a productive member of society.

Vick's behavior since pleading guilty demonstrates so far that he has learned his lesson. He understands playing pro football is a privilege, not a right. Vick knows that all eyes are on him and there is no margin for error.

He has surrounded himself with respected mentors. Vick has also teamed with the Humane Society to use his plight and notoriety to speak against animal cruelty, thus turning a negative into a positive teaching moment.

The Eagles took a public-relations risk in hiring Vick. Their decision shows they believe athletes are capable of redeeming themselves. Kudos to the Eagles for giving Vick that opportunity.

The team is not above admitting that signing Vick is also a business decision. He has the potential to help the Eagles win a Super Bowl. That drove the decision. That is the way of the NFL and most other businesses.

Michael Vick accepted his punishment and paid his debt to society. He shouldn't be denied a second chance, by the NFL, the Eagles, or anyone else.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20090816_Editorial__Vick_earned_a_second_chance.html