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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: jayfromeurope on September 23, 2009, 11:47:28 AM
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Hi all,
I'm gonna see an endocrinologue tomorrow and I was thinking about asking him some questions and write it in paper the answers. So If you guys have some questions for him, I can ask him and tell you the answer tomorrow.
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nobody have question to ask ???
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I don't have any specific questions but I would be interested in what he has to say to you. Just post your conversation after you meet with him.
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Actually, there's seems to be some debate as to the long term effects of insulin usage by non-diabetics. Perhaps you could get his opinion on what the possible effects are from such a practice..Can regular insulin use cause the pancreas to down regulate it's own production? I'd be interested to hear his opinion on that. Most of the "Bro's" on here seem to think it's perfectly healthy to do.
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Actually, there's seems to be some debate as to the long term effects of insulin usage by non-diabetics. Perhaps you could get his opinion on what the possible effects are from such a practice..Can regular insulin use cause the pancreas to down regulate it's own production? I'd be interested to hear his opinion on that. Most of the "Bro's" on here seem to think it's perfectly healthy to do.
OK I'll ask this question very interesting. Anything else ?
A.
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OK guys I just saw my endocrinologist and he is great. So I ask him about the insulin in bodybuilding and he told me that you cannot become diabetic and you cannot shut down your pancreas. He said that sometimes they even give insulin to reinforce and to stimulate the beta cell in pancreas.
I asked him which insulin is the best to use and he said a fast acting one because it stayed only couple of hours in the system and you can manage well your carbs uptake.
I hope my english is ok if you have any question Im here.
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OK guys I just saw my endocrinologist and he is great. So I ask him about the insulin in bodybuilding and he told me that you cannot become diabetic and you cannot shut down your pancreas. He said that sometimes they even give insulin to reinforce and to stimulate the beta cell in pancreas.
I asked him which insulin is the best to use and he said a fast acting one because it stayed only couple of hours in the system and you can manage well your carbs uptake.
I hope my english is ok if you have any question Im here.
Thanks Jay. I think a lot of people on here will find that interesting. Appreciate it.
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No problem. He was really great and told me that if I have any other question I can just call him. So if you have some questions.
Another thing, since my endocrinologist told me that he doesn't have a research about insulin on non-diabetic. I sent an e-mail to Lilly (the company that produce insulin.) and I asked them if they have a research about insulin on non-diabetic. As soon as they answered me I ll keep you updates.
Adrien
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Im booked in to see my endo in just over a months time , Ill ask the same question and we can compare to see if they have the same answers. :)
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Im booked in to see my endo in just over a months time , Ill ask the same question and we can compare to see if they have the same answers. :)
yes please do..im interested to see what he says as well
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OK guys I just saw my endocrinologist and he is great. So I ask him about the insulin in bodybuilding and he told me that you cannot become diabetic and you cannot shut down your pancreas. He said that sometimes they even give insulin to reinforce and to stimulate the beta cell in pancreas.
I asked him which insulin is the best to use and he said a fast acting one because it stayed only couple of hours in the system and you can manage well your carbs uptake.
I hope my english is ok if you have any question Im here.
There ya go ya idiots!!! BOOOM!!!!!!!
If anything, exogenous insulin gives your pancreas a break. I've read lots about slin, islets of Langerhans and paracrine response, etc. 65-80% of endocrine cell subsets are distributed to BETA CELLS that produce insulin and amylin. If you look at a fat fuck that has exhausted the shit out of their pancreas, you'll find that they may become a type II diabetic at some point. Even for Fatty McFuckFuck exogenous insulin might help depending on where they are in the pre diabetic stage. But if you have a bodybuilder that's obsessed over carrying sheaths of muscle with little to no bodyfat, you'll find that their pancreas is in much better condition. And exogenous insulin will make their insulin sensitivity even better in conjunction with a strict diet. It will in no way "give them teh diabeetus".
I've only spoken with one person who specialized in endocrinology and metabolism and they alluded to the same thing. I didn't have all the time in the world to bounce questions off them and they didn't want to encourage the abuse of hormones in a cosmetic and performance application. But unlike my doctor, they said they'd confide FACTS as opposed to opinion, because it's not their job to speculate and spread misinformation. It's their job to decode what the orchestra of hormones in peoples' bodies are doing. That endo knew so much about steroids and other drugs that are abused by bodybuilders as they've treated most of the bb'ers in town. It sounds like a cool profession but it takes a lot of schooling and most patients who come in are referred primarily for metabolism and treatment/prevention of diabetes. I couldn't handle talking to fat fucks about turning a blind eye to twinkies and soda pop all day without grilling them.
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There ya go ya idiots!!! BOOOM!!!!!!!
If anything, exogenous insulin gives your pancreas a break. I've read lots about slin, islets of Langerhans and paracrine response, etc. 65-80% of endocrine cell subsets are distributed to BETA CELLS that produce insulin and amylin. If you look at a fat fuck that has exhausted the shit out of their pancreas, you'll find that they may become a type II diabetic at some point. Even for Fatty McFuckFuck exogenous insulin might help depending on where they are in the pre diabetic stage. But if you have a bodybuilder that's obsessed over carrying sheaths of muscle with little to no bodyfat, you'll find that their pancreas is in much better condition. And exogenous insulin will make their insulin sensitivity even better in conjunction with a strict diet. It will in no way "give them teh diabeetus".
I've only spoken with one person who specialized in endocrinology and metabolism and they alluded to the same thing. I didn't have all the time in the world to bounce questions off them and they didn't want to encourage the abuse of hormones in a cosmetic and performance application. But unlike my doctor, they said they'd confide FACTS as opposed to opinion, because it's not their job to speculate and spread misinformation. It's their job to decode what the orchestra of hormones in peoples' bodies are doing. That endo knew so much about steroids and other drugs that are abused by bodybuilders as they've treated most of the bb'ers in town. It sounds like a cool profession but it takes a lot of schooling and most patients who come in are referred primarily for metabolism and treatment/prevention of diabetes. I couldn't handle talking to fat fucks about turning a blind eye to twinkies and soda pop all day without grilling them.
Insulin was given to non diabetic children as a trial type thing , the theory behind this was based on how a vaccine works , maybe by giving low doses it would help in the future , guess what it diddnt so was shelved , there are no studies done to prove that insulin abuse in non diabetic patients does not cause problem one being adult onset diabetes melitus..An endo giving his personal opinion and talking of the study I just told you about is not conclusive and at best only makes you feel better.
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Agreed
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Insulin was given to non diabetic children as a trial type thing , the theory behind this was based on how a vaccine works , maybe by giving low doses it would help in the future , guess what it diddnt so was shelved , there are no studies done to prove that insulin abuse in non diabetic patients does not cause problem one being adult onset diabetes melitus..An endo giving his personal opinion and talking of the study I just told you about is not conclusive and at best only makes you feel better.
Look at the pharmacology again and get back to me, bud. You clearly haven't done any research into this, nor have you put your hypothesis to the test. I've done both.
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Look at the pharmacology again and get back to me, bud. You clearly haven't done any research into this, nor have you put your hypothesis to the test. I've done both.
Im in a much better position to comment on this than you , someone who has read his info on forums..your info saying its not even dangerous is plain idiotic , you say when I feel hypoglycemic i just eat a little carbohydrate..absolutly fukin moronic.. ::)
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Im in a much better position to comment on this than you , someone who has read his info on forums..your info saying its not even dangerous is plain idiotic , you say when I feel hypoglycemic i just eat a little carbohydrate..absolutly fukin moronic.. ::)
You're an absolute moron and you know it. Read my posts - I do nothing but attack and discourage forum hri science. Insulin can be extremely safe. Why is it safe enough for a 6 year old to pin a dozen times a day but magically dangerous for an adult?
And yes, if I feel that the balance between exogenous insulin and blood sugar is too great I correct it by consuming carbs. Please, explain to me how this is idiotic. Do you piss when your bladder is full? Do you eat when you're hungry? You don't have a tenth of the knowledge necessary to hang with me little boy so hang up the diaper and get lost. You know NOTHNG beyond what you've read on forums. It's ironic that you accuse me of this. I should take a picture of the thousands of medical books I've read at my mothers'. My entire family works in the health care industry from doctors, ER nurses to care aids. I'm sure no one in your trailer park has read a book in years aside from a Cosmo or Inquirer magazine.
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There ya go ya idiots!!! BOOOM!!!!!!!
If anything, exogenous insulin gives your pancreas a break. I've read lots about slin, islets of Langerhans and paracrine response, etc. 65-80% of endocrine cell subsets are distributed to BETA CELLS that produce insulin and amylin. If you look at a fat fuck that has exhausted the shit out of their pancreas, you'll find that they may become a type II diabetic at some point. Even for Fatty McFuckFuck exogenous insulin might help depending on where they are in the pre diabetic stage. But if you have a bodybuilder that's obsessed over carrying sheaths of muscle with little to no bodyfat, you'll find that their pancreas is in much better condition. And exogenous insulin will make their insulin sensitivity even better in conjunction with a strict diet. It will in no way "give them teh diabeetus".
I've only spoken with one person who specialized in endocrinology and metabolism and they alluded to the same thing. I didn't have all the time in the world to bounce questions off them and they didn't want to encourage the abuse of hormones in a cosmetic and performance application. But unlike my doctor, they said they'd confide FACTS as opposed to opinion, because it's not their job to speculate and spread misinformation. It's their job to decode what the orchestra of hormones in peoples' bodies are doing. That endo knew so much about steroids and other drugs that are abused by bodybuilders as they've treated most of the bb'ers in town. It sounds like a cool profession but it takes a lot of schooling and most patients who come in are referred primarily for metabolism and treatment/prevention of diabetes. I couldn't handle talking to fat fucks about turning a blind eye to twinkies and soda pop all day without grilling them.
wrong sorry.
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hey jay, ask him about hcg usage for guys that use gear mainly year round, is it safe to use hcg at a dose of 250ius during cycle for long periods opf time? or do cycles of hcg?
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Actually, there's seems to be some debate as to the long term effects of insulin usage by non-diabetics. Perhaps you could get his opinion on what the possible effects are from such a practice..Can regular insulin use cause the pancreas to down regulate it's own production? I'd be interested to hear his opinion on that. Most of the "Bro's" on here seem to think it's perfectly healthy to do.
can you show me a post from anyone on his board where they make insulin use out to be "healthy"?
saying it wont cause diabetes and may help with natural glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity is one thing, "healthy" is a completely different thing.
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You're an absolute moron and you know it. Read my posts - I do nothing but attack and discourage forum hri science. Insulin can be extremely safe. Why is it safe enough for a 6 year old to pin a dozen times a day but magically dangerous for an adult?
And yes, if I feel that the balance between exogenous insulin and blood sugar is too great I correct it by consuming carbs. Please, explain to me how this is idiotic. Do you piss when your bladder is full? Do you eat when you're hungry? You don't have a tenth of the knowledge necessary to hang with me little boy so hang up the diaper and get lost. You know NOTHNG beyond what you've read on forums. It's ironic that you accuse me of this. I should take a picture of the thousands of medical books I've read at my mothers'. My entire family works in the health care industry from doctors, ER nurses to care aids. I'm sure no one in your trailer park has read a book in years aside from a Cosmo or Inquirer magazine.
Ill be back later on to make you look stupid , Im a tad busy at present ;)..Ive injected 100s of 1000s of units of slin in my life being insulin dependent for close to 18years , you are nothing but a phillipino book worm and the stuff you spout off about insulin is nothing short of idiotic..
You said if you feel hypoglycemic you ingest a small amount of carbs..it was the type of carbs you said dikwad..you need sugar into your blood system and fast , if you are feeling the signs having a little bite wont do shit fast enough.
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Ill be back later on to make you look stupid , Im a tad busy at present ;)..Ive injected 100s of 1000s of units of slin in my life being insulin dependent for close to 18years , you are nothing but a phillipino book worm and the stuff you spout off about insulin is nothing short of idiotic..
You said if you feel hypoglycemic you ingest a small amount of carbs..it was the type of carbs you said dikwad..you need sugar into your blood system and fast , if you are feeling the signs having a little bite wont do shit fast enough.
As soon as I feel the onset of hypoglycemia, I ingest a small amount of carbs. What's wrong with that? The amount of carbs I consume is in alignment with what I need, otherwise I would still go hypoglycemic. And have I died of diabetic coma yet? No. I'm perfectly fine. And that's because anytime I did feel hypo, I had the perfect amount of carbs or consumed more carbs until everything was squared away.
You're taking what I said out of context and blowing it up at mass proportions. You're a fucking idiot. You know it, WillGrant. You're getting owned by the handsome Filipino book work. Are you melting down in real life too? :)
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will whats the point your trying to make?
medical professionals trained to treat diabetics with life threatening levels of bg (blew 40) are told to do exactly what dustin is saying.... trest with oral glucose. and most emt/paramedic only carry one or two tubes of glucose gel, of each only contain 25 grams glucose.
so im not sure what your trying to say
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Taylor's right again. At the hospital, when someone starts going hypo the nurses are like "oh, give him xxx amount of glucose" and some intern will take care of it. They don't shut down the hospital and call every doctor available because someone's blood sugar dropped. And like I said earlier, I ingest carbs when I feel the onset of hypoglycemia.
Will's misunderstanding lies with the degree of seriousness I'm talking about - partly because he's just a dickhead who's trying to pick apart everything I say. I'm not on the floor, drooling and convulsing with so little glucose in my system that I can hardly lift my arms to grab some sweet, sugary grape drink or anything. If this was happening on a regular occasion, I am humble enough to admit that I fucked up and it was some scary ass shit. I honestly think that during all these debates, he's probably read half of mine and Taylor's posts and found himself nodding in agreement. If not, then he's the one that's seriously mistaken. I don't know where the incredible elitist attitude is coming from.
Will, I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong and I'm open to other ideas. This is WHY I've joined these forums. I've always been an advocate of safe and low doses. Just because I don't slam back 1000g of straight glucose because grass is green and the sky is blue, doesn't mean that I'm off base. Why does my glucose fall always fall within perfect range? I have some spare test strips that I use when I want to make sure that I'm dosing correctly, and my hypothesis is always carried out flawlessly. If I was becoming hypo and waking up from diabetic comas all the time, I would be the first to come here and warn everyone. But I just give the straight dope - bias opinions will not help to keep anyone safe.
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And exogenous insulin will make their insulin sensitivity even better in conjunction with a strict diet. It will in no way "give them teh diabeetus".
I don't know about this one. Taking insulin isn't really a way to increase sensitivity, especially when bodybuilders are trying to increase the amount of insulin in the body.
Type II diabetics are sometimes treated with insulin early on. This protects the pancreas, since it's sugar that damages the pancreas and other organs. If they address the cause of the insulin resistance they might be able to drop the insulin later on and their pancreas will still be healthy. However, I don't see how taking insulin would increase sensitivity.
Bodybuilders on high GH dosages sometimes find they "need" extra insulin. This protects you but doesn't really solve the insulin resistance. Probably makes it worse, since you have even more insulin floating around. It's more like a temporary safe guard against damage from high BG.
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You said if you feel hypoglycemic you ingest a small amount of carbs..it was the type of carbs you said dikwad..you need sugar into your blood system and fast , if you are feeling the signs having a little bite wont do shit fast enough.
Isn't the most common rec for diabetics feeling hypo to have a glass of orange juice?
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I don't know about this one. Taking insulin isn't really a way to increase sensitivity, especially when bodybuilders are trying to increase the amount of insulin in the body.
Type II diabetics are sometimes treated with insulin early on. This protects the pancreas, since it's sugar that damages the pancreas and other organs. If they address the cause of the insulin resistance they might be able to drop the insulin later on and their pancreas will still be healthy. However, I don't see how taking insulin would increase sensitivity.
Bodybuilders on high GH dosages sometimes find they "need" extra insulin. This protects you but doesn't really solve the insulin resistance. Probably makes it worse, since you have even more insulin floating around. It's more like a temporary safe guard against damage from high BG.
i think i can explain what dustin means
if a person is using insulin often, on a rehgular basis, that means they are going to be controlling their fat intake, consuiming appropriate protein, and getting in tons fo carbs. all the carbs are being stuffed into muscle and thyey arebeing used to grow muscle. as long asw the person is controlling their fat intake they shouldnt ever put on fat with insulin useage and carbs and protein alone. the boosted level of insulin efects form doing so ould make it all glycogen. the resulting increase in muscle masswithno increase in total fat mass and resulting reduction in total bodyfat% from doing so would boost insulin sensitiviy as bodyfat% is correlated with insulin sensitivity
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As soon as I feel the onset of hypoglycemia, I ingest a small amount of carbs. What's wrong with that? The amount of carbs I consume is in alignment with what I need, otherwise I would still go hypoglycemic. And have I died of diabetic coma yet? No. I'm perfectly fine. And that's because anytime I did feel hypo, I had the perfect amount of carbs or consumed more carbs until everything was squared away.
You're taking what I said out of context and blowing it up at mass proportions. You're a fucking idiot. You know it, WillGrant. You're getting owned by the handsome Filipino book work. Are you melting down in real life too? :)
How about the fact that if you, as a nondiabetic, can feel the onset of hypoglycemia you have exhausted your bodies initial compensatory mechanisms--- you have a "shakey weak" feeling becuase of epinephrine release, which acts to mobilize stored glycogen (read glycogen depletion).
If you eat a complex carbohydrate meal, you are looking at 10-20 minutes before you see an appreciable increase in blood glucose. This means several minutes of glycogen depletion. It also means secretion of other "hypoglycemic" hormones including cortisol. There will also be some GH secretion, but I sure wouldn't bank on that leading to significant muscle gains.
So lets say you eat a simple carbohydrate meal? Unless you have things precisely measured--which will be dependant on a multitude of factors, your blood glucose will go up to normal, the body will begin replenishing glycogen(remember glycogen replenishment isn't an instantaneous phenomena), and then store any extra as FAT. Consuming more carbs without measuring your blood glucose is not exactly smart. Not only that you stand a big chance of yo-yoing your blood glucose levels, which will lead to decreased athletic performance. I will tell you as a diabetic powerlifter, hypoglycemia within 2 days of a meet is a guarantee to not break PR's. You may "feel" fine, but your optimal performance will be decreased.
Why do pro-bodybuilders get by with insulin? Personally, I think its becuase they may actually need it. They literally induce a type II diabetes with GH and other drug use. If you aren't using those drugs, you are potentially playing with fire. At a minimum you are potentially screwing athletic performance/training.
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How about the fact that if you, as a nondiabetic, can feel the onset of hypoglycemia you have exhausted your bodies initial compensatory mechanisms--- you have a "shakey weak" feeling becuase of epinephrine release, which acts to mobilize stored glycogen (read glycogen depletion).
If you eat a complex carbohydrate meal, you are looking at 10-20 minutes before you see an appreciable increase in blood glucose. This means several minutes of glycogen depletion. It also means secretion of other "hypoglycemic" hormones including cortisol. There will also be some GH secretion, but I sure wouldn't bank on that leading to significant muscle gains.
So lets say you eat a simple carbohydrate meal? Unless you have things precisely measured--which will be dependant on a multitude of factors, your blood glucose will go up to normal, the body will begin replenishing glycogen(remember glycogen replenishment isn't an instantaneous phenomena), and then store any extra as FAT. Consuming more carbs without measuring your blood glucose is not exactly smart. Not only that you stand a big chance of yo-yoing your blood glucose levels, which will lead to decreased athletic performance. I will tell you as a diabetic powerlifter, hypoglycemia within 2 days of a meet is a guarantee to not break PR's. You may "feel" fine, but your optimal performance will be decreased.
Why do pro-bodybuilders get by with insulin? Personally, I think its becuase they may actually need it. They literally induce a type II diabetes with GH and other drug use. If you aren't using those drugs, you are potentially playing with fire. At a minimum you are potentially screwing athletic performance/training.
very interesting
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very interesting
I agree with what he said. I'm not diabetic and I haven't had a bad bout of hypoglycemia from using exogenous insulin, but I've become hypo other times... like going straight to work after the gym, or not being able to eat after a run or workout because of an emergency or family affair. It leaves you fucking drained for the next couple of days, even if you load up on the grub. It definitely exhausts your body, that's for sure.
Thanks for your input, Vet. I'm looking for responses like this - I am more than willing to learn but nothing but close minded, ad hominem attacks are coming from WillGrant so that's getting no where. Other than that, a few good bro-responses like "yup, insulin will fuck you up" is all that anyone else says either.
I would be more than happy if you could correct any other of my misunderstandings and I'm just here to learn. Will's elitist attitude is blinding him and he somehow thinks that propaganda rather than FACTS will keep people safe. I don't know why he's so stubborn. :)
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i think i can explain what dustin means
if a person is using insulin often, on a rehgular basis, that means they are going to be controlling their fat intake, consuiming appropriate protein, and getting in tons fo carbs. all the carbs are being stuffed into muscle and thyey arebeing used to grow muscle. as long asw the person is controlling their fat intake they shouldnt ever put on fat with insulin useage and carbs and protein alone. the boosted level of insulin efects form doing so ould make it all glycogen. the resulting increase in muscle masswithno increase in total fat mass and resulting reduction in total bodyfat% from doing so would boost insulin sensitiviy as bodyfat% is correlated with insulin sensitivity
Sure, but there's more to insulin sensitivity than BF percentage. I think competitive bodybuilders are pretty damn insulin resistant, especially when contest lean. I just don't think hammering the system with even more insulin is a way to increase sensitivity. If you found a way to reduce the amount of total insulin circulating in the body by using exogenous insulin, then maybe I could see it.
BTW, what do you think of "maxititer's" idea that doing exogenous insulin post workout will not increase glycogen storage (or speed of glycogen storage)? He thinks it's basically counterproductive, regardless of what you eat with the insulin.
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to the above posters talking about hypoglycemia and no dabetics. insulin works pretty much the same in type 1 and non diabetics. and if you use your humalog the same way as insulin dependant diabetics do, youll get the same action(s). there really isnt a need to get super focused with your insulin and carb itnakes. you can do like a diabetic, and just eyeball the carbs for the insulin doseage. the body isnt a calculator.
BTW, what do you think of "maxititer's" idea that doing exogenous insulin post workout will not increase glycogen storage (or speed of glycogen storage)? He thinks it's basically counterproductive, regardless of what you eat with the insulin.
well i see what he is saying.
post workout you want elevated insulin for numerous reason. and he points out that this is quickly and efficiently done by consuming some carbs. no need for exogenous inuslin.
i agree. to get elevated insulin theres no need for humalog. and it was you who pointed ou to me that the human body can release equivelants amounts of probably 20iu or more.
so humalog for that purpouse doesnt make sense.
which is why i think long acting elevations with a lantus or levemir is going to be more effective.
but maxtiter has also mentioned before he thinks that combination of both basal and bolus is what reaops the most benefits.
i dont think its counter rpoductive, and based on all the anecdotal evidence of bodybuilders using humalog and geting results, there must be something to it. what is that something? i am not sure.
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to the above posters talking about hypoglycemia and no dabetics. insulin works pretty much the same in type 1 and non diabetics. and if you use your humalog the same way as insulin dependant diabetics do, youll get the same action(s). there really isnt a need to get super focused with your insulin and carb itnakes. you can do like a diabetic, and just eyeball the carbs for the insulin doseage. the body isnt a calculator.
Um, yes it is. A truely well controlled diabetic CALCULATES the amount of insulin they need, they don't "eyeball it" like you claim they do. Many people are using insulin pumps now days, which will automatically calculate it for that person---based on their activity levels, their blood glucose levels, and the carbs in the meal. Eyeballing it is stupid in my opinion.
i dont think its counter rpoductive, and based on all the anecdotal evidence of bodybuilders using humalog and geting results, there must be something to it. what is that something? i am not sure.
And with that you have shifted from science into the world of placebo results. I guarantee you that I could take horseshit, put it in capsule form and get 10 or 20 top level bodybuilders to endorse it on message boards along with 2 or 3 pros, and it would be the hottest supplement on the market. Thats a bullshit answer and really shows how naive you are.
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Sure, but there's more to insulin sensitivity than BF percentage. I think competitive bodybuilders are pretty damn insulin resistant, especially when contest lean. I just don't think hammering the system with even more insulin is a way to increase sensitivity. If you found a way to reduce the amount of total insulin circulating in the body by using exogenous insulin, then maybe I could see it.
I agree.
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Um, yes it is. A truely well controlled diabetic CALCULATES the amount of insulin they need, they don't "eyeball it" like you claim they do. Many people are using insulin pumps now days, which will automatically calculate it for that person---based on their activity levels, their blood glucose levels, and the carbs in the meal. Eyeballing it is stupid in my opinion.
And with that you have shifted from science into the world of placebo results. I guarantee you that I could take horseshit, put it in capsule form and get 10 or 20 top level bodybuilders to endorse it on message boards along with 2 or 3 pros, and it would be the hottest supplement on the market. Thats a bullshit answer and really shows how naive you are.
i didnt say eyeball the insulin. and you nknow that is not what i meant. in referance to carbohydrate intazke, not a single diabetic on the planet is measuring out 10grams for every iu injected. they just have a set dose for small meals and big meals. you have said this before about yourself.
in bodybuilding, you cant always g by science. in the 70's the scientific world thought that steroids didnt do anything but placebo. and if you wanted to go only by science, then at that time youd have to have not used roids. but if you looked at all the big guys, you could tell through anecdote that yes stteroids were effective.
as with insulin, at the moment there is no science behind why it works, but the real world results say ti does.
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i didnt say eyeball the insulin. and you nknow that is not what i meant. in referance to carbohydrate intazke, not a single diabetic on the planet is measuring out 10grams for every iu injected. they just have a set dose for small meals and big meals. you have said this before about yourself.
in bodybuilding, you cant always g by science. in the 70's the scientific world thought that steroids didnt do anything but placebo. and if you wanted to go only by science, then at that time youd have to have not used roids. but if you looked at all the big guys, you could tell through anecdote that yes stteroids were effective.
as with insulin, at the moment there is no science behind why it works, but the real world results say ti does.
um, no, there are a bunch of people claiming it works and a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon---again see my horseshit example.
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um, no, there are a bunch of people claiming it works and a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon---again see my horseshit example.
alot nof people say it works
alot fo epopl have gotte results
zero people as far as i know how say the have been consistant with it and gotten nothin out of it
thats pretty god evidence, hardly horseshit.
hows your week been? or btter ye, hows yoru life been? your always in a horrible mood... you dont think nondiabetics "deserve" to use insulin, am i right? you like to get sympathy form people because your insulin dependant, and you feel that nondiabetics who use insulin for cosmetic reasons make your life seem easier, and you get less sympathy.
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Seriously Taylor, use spell check & edit your posts just a little.
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Seriously Taylor, use spell check & edit your posts just a little.
You could post this suggestion in nearly every thread these days...