Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: lesaucer on October 20, 2009, 09:34:34 AM
-
on rxmuscle forums the mod on gear forum said: ''there is two quite old but rarely used drugs which even more effective for fat control when used with insulin. first is amrinon - phosphodiasterase 3 inhibitor (when PDE3 suppressed insulin unable to store any fat at all) and second is HCA.'' ... where can you get amrinon? otc or drug dealer? no results on google for that ... and is there a big difference between fat control on amrinon and hca? and have you guys ever used gh frags too for fat control before?
-
It's not insulin per se that's making you fat. It's too many calories.
-
It's not insulin per se that's making you fat. It's too many calories.
Agree, I never increased bf on insulin unless I ate significantly more. Maybe its associated with that because people take in way more carbs than they need not to go hypo and end up with a surplus of calories.
-
fat intake is what causes fat gain with insulin. you can eat basically unlimited carbs, as long as you are eating basically zero fat.
-
fat intake is what causes fat gain with insulin. you can eat basically unlimited carbs, as long as you are eating basically zero fat.
I'm not trying to pick on you tonight but again, this just isn't true.
Probably 99% of the guys on this board, if they started eating carbs like Jay Cutler does in the off-season they'd get fatter than all out side.
-
I'm not trying to pick on you tonight but again, this just isn't true.
Probably 99% of the guys on this board, if they started eating carbs like Jay Cutler does in the off-season they'd get fatter than all out side.
nah they wouldnt. the reason you hear guys say that carbs make them fat, and the reaosn why they believe it to be so, is because they dont do high carbs properly. either they are not watching their fat intake, they arent making surethey are consuming glucose based carbs and not fructose based carbs... something along those lines.
its basic metabolic knowledge that glucose very rarely ever goes to fat.
-
nah they wouldnt. the reason you hear guys say that carbs make them fat, and the reaosn why they believe it to be so, is because they dont do high carbs properly. either they are not watching their fat intake, they arent making surethey are consuming glucose based carbs and not fructose based carbs... something along those lines.
its basic metabolic knowledge that glucose very rarely ever goes to fat.
I don't buy it. You take a regular bodybuilder, have him eat 800-1000g of carbs per day along with his high protein diet, give him zero fat or at least very close to it, have all his carbs come from the right carb sources and he'll get fat, insulin or no insulin. Excess calories is simply that, excess fat.
-
I'm on the fence with this one...
1000g carbs is a shitload of carbs, and twice as much as i'm eating now (without slin) I noticed that with trace fat + omega3 i did not put on much fat, but when i started to include more fats recently the fat started coming on. I decrease it again now to no extra fat except omega3s... add slin and it's the same thing only you can eat even more carbs.
depending on size of bber and activity levels i do believe they can eat that much. But not jay cutler levels of carbs for someone that is 200lbs...obviously that would backfire...
say 230lb bber 2 workouts a day 1000g carbs, i believe that would work
-
Everyones different, but having been there done that I can agree with Arnold Jr 1000%
-
I'm not trying to pick on you tonight but again, this just isn't true.
Probably 99% of the guys on this board, if they started eating carbs like Jay Cutler does in the off-season they'd get fatter than all out side.
You are better off just not believing about 87% of what he posts about insulin or its effects on metabolism.
Insulin will directly promote fat deposition through its effects on carbohydrate metabolism... it can also cause a localized fat deposition. this is why you see diabetics develop "fat pads" in the region they inject insulin. Unfortunately those fatty tissue accumulations can further inhibit insulin absorption, making them worse. Thats why years ago diabetics were told to rotate insulin injection sites, to prevent this from happening.
-
I don't buy it. You take a regular bodybuilder, have him eat 800-1000g of carbs per day along with his high protein diet, give him zero fat or at least very close to it, have all his carbs come from the right carb sources and he'll get fat, insulin or no insulin. Excess calories is simply that, excess fat.
fat is far more calorie dense than carbs. so a relatively small amount of fat is more than twice the calories than the same number of grams of carbs...
but that doesn't change the fact that excessive calories will be stored as fat.
-
on rxmuscle forums the mod on gear forum said: ''there is two quite old but rarely used drugs which even more effective for fat control when used with insulin. first is amrinon - phosphodiasterase 3 inhibitor (when PDE3 suppressed insulin unable to store any fat at all) and second is HCA.'' ... where can you get amrinon? otc or drug dealer? no results on google for that ... and is there a big difference between fat control on amrinon and hca? and have you guys ever used gh frags too for fat control before?
amrinone is a positive ionotrophic cardiac drug--- meaning it increases cardiac muscle cell calcium inflow, causing hte heart to basically beat harder and faster. i dont' think its available in the US, but I'd have to check to be certian. Most of the literature I've seen on it is coming from Germany or from German studies done in African megavertebrates. Be careful with this stuff. It can have effects similar to dobutamine...
HCA is the stuff that I think used to be in the original HYDROXYCUT from Garcinia cambogia. I don't know if its available over the counter or not. Im pretty sure it used to be in various forms. I seem to remember seeing it as pure hydroxycitric acid in a vitamin store about 10 years ago.... it was in a blue bottle. I will tell you I took alot of HCA containing supplements through the years. I dont' think any of them worked.
-
amrinone is a positive ionotrophic cardiac drug--- meaning it increases cardiac muscle cell calcium inflow, causing hte heart to basically beat harder and faster. i dont' think its available in the US, but I'd have to check to be certian. Most of the literature I've seen on it is coming from Germany or from German studies done in African megavertebrates. Be careful with this stuff. It can have effects similar to dobutamine...
HCA is the stuff that I think used to be in the original HYDROXYCUT from Garcinia cambogia. I don't know if its available over the counter or not. Im pretty sure it used to be in various forms. I seem to remember seeing it as pure hydroxycitric acid in a vitamin store about 10 years ago.... it was in a blue bottle. I will tell you I took alot of HCA containing supplements through the years. I dont' think any of them worked.
THANK YOU...tbombz is wrong saying insulin dont store excess carbs as fat.. fuck amrinon no one know what is it. hydroxycut HCA?? i think you mean ephedrine... THATS whats up with hca:
Getting straight to the point, unless you are a moron and are eating fat during insulin use, or you have crappy insulin sensitivity, HCA is the second most effective fat gain inhibitor next to Clenbuterol (which is only more effective due to its' ridiculously long half life).
Hydroxy Citric Acid (HCA) is the main ingredient in Citrimax, and is a bargain in terms of its': relative effectiveness (when using insulin), cost (cheap, cheap, cheap), and availability. It works by inhibiting an enzyme called ATP citrate ly(s)ase (ACL), which basically converts ingested carbs to fat (which insulin promptly stores). This is normally NOT a big deal since ACL levels are normally low in most humans. However, insulin drastically increases ACL levels (which should make sense based on what you now know about insulin) accounting for most of the, responsible use, fat gain associated with insulin use. This is the most exciting find since the discovery of insulin as an anabolic! Using insulin and not gaining fat while gaining muscle? What a concept! Although I don't like to go into the details of use directly, I believe it is warranted here. 500-750mgs HCA should be taken with or within half an hour after the insulin shot.
They usually recommended 250mgs is ineffective in dealing with the drastic increase in ACL levels. The HCA is taken with the shot because both start to work on about one half hour, so the HCA can begin to be effective at the same time that insulin is trying to increase ACL levels.
This regimen (only 3X500mgs HCA) prevented fat gain during a day when I used 3 separate insulin shots! To make things even better there is a mild glycogen storage property associated with HCA use. Since ingested carbs cannot be converted to, or stored as, fat, they are generally stored (due to insulin) as glycogen in muscle giving the user a mild but noticeable pump (similar to the first day of creatine use). To end this portion of the list, I give HCA my highest recommendation as the number 1 supplement to use with insulin!
-
fat is far more calorie dense than carbs. so a relatively small amount of fat is more than twice the calories than the same number of grams of carbs...
but that doesn't change the fact that excessive calories will be stored as fat.
That was my point, excess calories be it from fat or carbs is still excess calories...agreed.
-
nah they wouldnt. the reason you hear guys say that carbs make them fat, and the reaosn why they believe it to be so, is because they dont do high carbs properly. either they are not watching their fat intake, they arent making surethey are consuming glucose based carbs and not fructose based carbs... something along those lines.
its basic metabolic knowledge that glucose very rarely ever goes to fat.
Was it you who offered your prepping services in G&O? ::)
E...
-
sometimes i feel if nobody does any real bodybuilding anymore... i prepfer chattign with legit competitive bodybuilders from the 90's, old school guys who follow old school methods... if anybody actually dietied the way bodybuilders have always beent old to diet, high carb low fat...they would know that carbs dont make you fat unless your eating fat.. for a million reasons, both anecdotally true and also scientifcally.... arnold im not posting thiswith any disrespect to you brother... weve always been cool... however fools like dave palumbo have misinformed the masses into believes carbs are the enemy.... yes the can make you fat, but not without fat intake
-
sometimes i feel if nobody does any real bodybuilding anymore... i prepfer chattign with legit competitive bodybuilders from the 90's, old school guys who follow old school methods... if anybody actually dietied the way bodybuilders have always beent old to diet, high carb low fat...they would know that carbs dont make you fat unless your eating fat.. for a million reasons, both anecdotally true and also scientifcally.... arnold im not posting thiswith any disrespect to you brother... weve always been cool... however fools like dave palumbo have misinformed the masses into believes carbs are the enemy.... yes the can make you fat, but not without fat intake
For starters, Dave is not an anti carb guy...people seem to make this assumption a lot since he has become a bit of a keto diet guy for contest prep.
In regards to your comment about you won't get fat eating carbs unless you eat fats...that's saying that you can eat as much as you want and you won't get fat. No human on earth can utilize an infinite number of calories, even if they are only proteins and carbs, and even if they're using hormones.
If someone is taking in 9,000 calories per day, running a massive stack including insulin, they're managing to burn and utilize 5,500 calories per day and they are only eating proteins and carbs...they're on a zero fat diet...there's still 3,500 calories per day not being used in any way. Those calories have to go somewhere, you're not going to simply crap them out or have them disappear by osmosis. They're going to store as body fat...there just isn't any way around that.
-
For starters, Dave is not an anti carb guy...people seem to make this assumption a lot since he has become a bit of a keto diet guy for contest prep.
In regards to your comment about you won't get fat eating carbs unless you eat fats...that's saying that you can eat as much as you want and you won't get fat. No human on earth can utilize an infinite number of calories, even if they are only proteins and carbs, and even if they're using hormones.
If someone is taking in 9,000 calories per day, running a massive stack including insulin, they're managing to burn and utilize 5,500 calories per day and they are only eating proteins and carbs...they're on a zero fat diet...there's still 3,500 calories per day not being used in any way. Those calories have to go somewhere, you're not going to simply crap them out or have them disappear by osmosis. They're going to store as body fat...there just isn't any way around that.
yes there is a possible scenario where carbs cna go to fat, but its very unlikely and nobody eats 9000 calories from carbs alone without fats included.
even 1000 grams of carbs in one day is fine for most people, as long as fat is very low. thats only 4000 calories. most bodybu8ilders will have a daily energy expenditure around 3500 or more, plus thermic effect of their protein, plus burn off effect of carbs, plus glyocgen proting effect of insulin,...etc etc etc... i could cite 5 million different pathways through wich fat gain islimited when on a low fat diet and high carbs...
fat gain is caused mainly (about 99% of all fat gain) by mixing fats and carbs in the diet.
-
sometimes i feel if nobody does any real bodybuilding anymore... i prepfer chattign with legit competitive bodybuilders from the 90's, old school guys who follow old school methods... if anybody actually dietied the way bodybuilders have always beent old to diet, high carb low fat...they would know that carbs dont make you fat unless your eating fat.. for a million reasons, both anecdotally true and also scientifcally.... arnold im not posting thiswith any disrespect to you brother... weve always been cool... however fools like dave palumbo have misinformed the masses into believes carbs are the enemy.... yes the can make you fat, but not without fat intake
Funny you say this, I competed in BB in the early 90's and yes the diet thing then was high carbs, low fat. looking at the guys from that era also shows most did not achieve the dry, hard, grainy look of modern day BB. I will say that my conditioning on those diets was not the best, kind of watery and not as lean as would have liked. Now this could have been due to other factors or mistakes i made. But overall i never felt like i had thin skin or was very lean on those diets. With low carb diets my conditioning has improved.
Will agree though that too long on very low carbs I will start to drop muscle mass and fullness, so it appears to be a balancing act. I will now cycle carbs a couple/few days low carbs followed by a day of re feeding. This has helped hold size on a calorie restricted diet. very low carbs will get you hard and dry fast but it may cost you some size. Just my experiences....so far.
-
While tbombz is right that de-novo lipogenesis rarely occurs in humans, it still is basically like so that if you exceed your energy expenditure in calories you will store the rest as fat. It's a long debate to go into all the details but one interesting thing is that one way to induce de-novo lipogenesis is to eat very low fats! Extremely high carbs is another. Very high carbs and very low fats = de-novo lipogenesis. And whatever fat you eat when eating high carbs, even if not mixing it with the carbs, will be stored since there is no need to burn it for energy. Of course there will be no lipolysis occurring either.
If someone is taking in 9,000 calories per day, running a massive stack including insulin, they're managing to burn and utilize 5,500 calories per day and they are only eating proteins and carbs...they're on a zero fat diet...there's still 3,500 calories per day not being used in any way. Those calories have to go somewhere, you're not going to simply crap them out or have them disappear by osmosis. They're going to store as body fat...there just isn't any way around that.
Yup.
-
While tbombz is right that de-novo lipogenesis rarely occurs in humans, it still is basically like so that if you exceed your energy expenditure in calories you will store the rest as fat. It's a long debate to go into all the details but one interesting thing is that one way to induce de-novo lipogenesis is to eat very low fats! Extremely high carbs is another. Very high carbs and very low fats = de-novo lipogenesis. And whatever fat you eat when eating high carbs, even if not mixing it with the carbs, will be stored since there is no need to burn it for energy. Of course there will be no lipolysis occurring either.
Yup.
Interesting!
So if you eat 6 meals a day and lets say 500 carbs in the first 5 meals of the day and eat protein and some healthy fats in the 6th meal. Those fats will be stored?
because carbs is a superior energy source the fats make you fat? just like carbs make you fat on a keto diet....
-
Interesting!
So if you eat 6 meals a day and lets say 500 carbs in the first 5 meals of the day and eat protein and some healthy fats in the 6th meal. Those fats will be stored?
because carbs is a superior energy source the fats make you fat? just like carbs make you fat on a keto diet....
If you eat a ton of carbs at one sitting and then eat a fat/protein meal 2 hours later you better believe your insulin will still be elevated from the carbs. Plus if you're in a big calorie surplus the body knows this even if it's been longer since your last meal.
I don't really believe in the nutrient combining/nutrient timing theory in general, where you can partition the nutrients to where you want them to go. In some cases it's a good idea, like eating carbs around workouts preferentially, with protein of course. But in general I don't believe in carb-cut off's etc. If you're in a big surplus you're getting fat even if you don't eat carbs after 6 PM of whatever. And you can get lean by eating sugar at bedtime if you're in a deficit. Never combining carbs with fat doesn't do much as far as positive partitioning either.
-
If you eat a ton of carbs at one sitting and then eat a fat/protein meal 2 hours later you better believe your insulin will still be elevated from the carbs. Plus if you're in a big calorie surplus the body knows this even if it's been longer since your last meal.
I don't really believe in the nutrient combining/nutrient timing theory in general, where you can partition the nutrients to where you want them to go. In some cases it's a good idea, like eating carbs around workouts preferentially, with protein of course. But in general I don't believe in carb-cut off's etc. If you're in a big surplus you're getting fat even if you don't eat carbs after 6 PM of whatever. And you can get lean by eating sugar at bedtime if you're in a deficit. Never combining carbs with fat doesn't do much as far as positive partitioning either.
like i said earlier, i was experiencing fat gains when i added healthy fats to the last meal. i guess this explains it.
-
For starters, Dave is not an anti carb guy...people seem to make this assumption a lot since he has become a bit of a keto diet guy for contest prep.
In regards to your comment about you won't get fat eating carbs unless you eat fats...that's saying that you can eat as much as you want and you won't get fat. No human on earth can utilize an infinite number of calories, even if they are only proteins and carbs, and even if they're using hormones.
If someone is taking in 9,000 calories per day, running a massive stack including insulin, they're managing to burn and utilize 5,500 calories per day and they are only eating proteins and carbs...they're on a zero fat diet...there's still 3,500 calories per day not being used in any way. Those calories have to go somewhere, you're not going to simply crap them out or have them disappear by osmosis. They're going to store as body fat...there just isn't any way around that.
just look at trey brewer before, he was eating extreme amounts of calories thinking he would get bigger muscle.. only difference it did for him when going from 4-5kcal to like 8k+,, the extra carbs/prot/cal did not get him bigger muscle, it made him FAT. now tbombz sure you can say maybe he was eating to much fat with his diet but i dont think someone wanting to be pro would fuck up his diet by eating lards..
even if you're on tons of gear your body still cannot use everything and will store big surplus calories as fat,,it will use way more than natural but not unlimited like tbombz is saying...... at least thats what im thinking..
-
just look at trey brewer before, he was eating extreme amounts of calories thinking he would get bigger muscle.. only difference it did for him when going from 4-5kcal to like 8k+,, the extra carbs/prot/cal did not get him bigger muscle, it made him FAT. now tbombz sure you can say maybe he was eating to much fat with his diet but i dont think someone wanting to be pro would fuck up his diet by eating lards..
even if you're on tons of gear your body still cannot use everything and will store big surplus calories as fat,,it will use way more than natural but not unlimited like tbombz is saying...... at least thats what im thinking..
Very true. The most food I ever ate, when I was really trying to bulk up as much as I could, I ate a diet of nothing but carbs and proteins, that was the fattest I ever got. The bulk of my diet consisted of:
egg whites
whey protein, mixed with milk
tuna fish
chicken
oats
rice
sweet potatoes
whole wheat bread
...and 1tbsp of peanut butter each night with my shake before bed.
I ate very little red meat...maybe 1 steak per wk if that and nothing with added fats, no junk food, was running a good cycle of test and deca and GH.
I got pretty strong eating like this and packed on a ton of size. I was eating appx 6,000 calories per day, weighed almost 240. My BF went up too, way beyond what is acceptable IMO. I have no idea what the percentage of fat was, never checked it but I didn't have to, I could look in the mirror and tell I had gotten too fat.
-
Very true. The most food I ever ate, when I was really trying to bulk up as much as I could, I ate a diet of nothing but carbs and proteins, that was the fattest I ever got. The bulk of my diet consisted of:
egg whites
whey protein, mixed with milk
tuna fish
chicken
oats
rice
sweet potatoes
whole wheat bread
...and 1tbsp of peanut butter each night with my shake before bed.
I ate very little red meat...maybe 1 steak per wk if that and nothing with added fats, no junk food, was running a good cycle of test and deca and GH.
I got pretty strong eating like this and packed on a ton of size. I was eating appx 6,000 calories per day, weighed almost 240. My BF went up too, way beyond what is acceptable IMO. I have no idea what the percentage of fat was, never checked it but I didn't have to, I could look in the mirror and tell I had gotten too fat.
definitely those fat containing foods that made you fatter ::) ::) ;D
-
definitely those fat containing foods that made you fatter ::) ::) ;D
Yep, that's what did it, lol!
Something else to keep in mind when it comes to this topic of calories in...if I ate 6,000 calories per day now, say for a period of 6 months, I am 100% positive I wouldn't get as fat as I did then. Not because I'm so much more bad ass, but because I have more lean muscle tissue on my frame than I did then and can burn more calories. No, even now I don't have any business eating that many calories per day but the overall point is I could get away with more but thankfully I'm not as young and dumb as I once was.
-
definitely those fat containing foods that made you fatter ::) ::) ;D
you missed oats, wheat bread, and whey protein.
-
Funny how nobody mentions Lipase...
-
you missed oats, wheat bread, and whey protein.
so youre saying that to not get fat on a big calories diet you would have to eat egg whites and drink gatorade all day??
-
so youre saying that to not get fat on a big calories diet you would have to eat egg whites and drink gatorade all day??
no gatorade is horrible, fructose is basically saturated fat.... since humans have a very low capacity for it in the liver, and all excess immmidietly gets changed into tryglecerides (saturated fats)...drinking gatorade is similar to drinking a dextrose/butter shake...
-
gatorade powder dont have frustose in it
-
gatorade powder dont have frustose in it
show me one gatorade without half of its carbs that are fructose. ive never seen one.
-
http://www.ehow.com/about_5379287_gatorade-powder-ingredients.html
and i have 2 jar at home none say it contains fructose, tried to take a pic with cell but cant see the words
-
thats becaus eyour not understanding that SUCROSE is a sugar made up of half glucose and half fructose.
-
o really,lol
-
no gatorade is horrible, fructose is basically saturated fat.... since humans have a very low capacity for it in the liver, and all excess immmidietly gets changed into tryglecerides (saturated fats)...drinking gatorade is similar to drinking a dextrose/butter shake...
fructose is the type of sugar in fruits right?
-
no gatorade is horrible, fructose is basically saturated fat.... since humans have a very low capacity for it in the liver, and all excess immmidietly gets changed into tryglecerides (saturated fats)...drinking gatorade is similar to drinking a dextrose/butter shake...
Not forgetting to mention the fact that under a capable microscope, a molecule of fructose looks nearly identical to a triglyceride molecule. The body automatically stores it as fat when the liver stores are already full... which is more often than not.
-
fructose is the type of sugar in fruits right?
most fruits are roughly half fructose and half glucose.
-
holy shit so eating too much fruits= automatic fat storage? damn how much grams of fructose until liver stores are full??
man i didnt know sucralose or fructose= fat gains, i tought it was just normal sugar carbs like dextrose but just didnt get absorbed as fast...fuckfuckfkfuckfcf kcufkuu
-
holy shit so eating too much fruits= automatic fat storage? damn how much grams of fructose until liver stores are full??
man i didnt know sucralose or fructose= fat gains, i tought it was just normal sugar carbs like dextrose but just didnt get absorbed as fast...fuckfuckfkfuckfcf kcufkuu
well i believe the liver has a glyocgen capacity of around 100grams. so if your liver was completely drained of glycogen, then you could eat up to 100grams of fructose, or 200grams of carbs from fruits, before turning fructose into fat.
now, fructose immidietly transfers into fat when there is an excess, however that doesnt necessarily mena it will also cause fat storeage. just like eating saturated fats dont automatically mean there will be fat storeage. but if insulin is elevated in the presence of fat, then yes there will be automatic fat storeage. and when fructose is abundant, usually glucose is too, so most often times fructose goes straight to fat (since most often times insulin is high when furctose is consumed in excess.)
-
tbombz i usually put bananas in my shakes but now that I know this i might change it... would 500ml skim milk, 1 cup oats, 2 scoops whey be better than 250ml skim milk, 1/2 cup oats, 2 bananas, 2 scoops whey?
-
well i believe the liver has a glyocgen capacity of around 100grams. so if your liver was completely drained of glycogen, then you could eat up to 100grams of fructose, or 200grams of carbs from fruits, before turning fructose into fat.
now, fructose immidietly transfers into fat when there is an excess, however that doesnt necessarily mena it will also cause fat storeage. just like eating saturated fats dont automatically mean there will be fat storeage. but if insulin is elevated in the presence of fat, then yes there will be automatic fat storeage. and when fructose is abundant, usually glucose is too, so most often times fructose goes straight to fat (since most often times insulin is high when furctose is consumed in excess.)
for example if you drink 200g of carbs from dextrose...than eat 90g of fructose from fruits.. as long as liver fructose capacity is not full (100g), your okay, right?
-
tbombz i usually put bananas in my shakes but now that I know this i might change it... would 500ml skim milk, 1 cup oats, 2 scoops whey be better than 250ml skim milk, 1/2 cup oats, 2 bananas, 2 scoops whey?
you dont need all that protein dude. but yes i think youd be better off with moremilk and oats and taking out the banana.
you still want to consume veggies though, or small amounts of fruit. its important to try to mainatin a balance in your diet between acidic and alkaline foods. acidic= pretty much everything besides fruits and veggies, fruits and veggies are alkaline.
how about carrot juice + oats+ whey? one scoop whey + 1 cup oats plus carrot juice.. i like carrots cuz they are very low in fructose high in glucose very good for alkalinity and also have vitamin K (? i think)..well one of the viatmins not found in mnay other foods..
skim milk is great though.
-
for example if you drink 200g of carbs from dextrose...than eat 90g of fructose from fruits.. as long as liver fructose capacity is not full (100g), your okay, right?
yes but your liver is almost always near full when your eating lots of carbs, whether they be fructos eor glucose. so be careful with fructose.
-
you dont need all that protein dude. but yes i think youd be better off with moremilk and oats and taking out the banana.
you still want to consume veggies though, or small amounts of fruit. its important to try to mainatin a balance in your diet between acidic and alkaline foods. acidic= pretty much everything besides fruits and veggies, fruits and veggies are alkaline.
how about carrot juice + oats+ whey? one scoop whey + 1 cup oats plus carrot juice.. i like carrots cuz they are very low in fructose high in glucose very good for alkalinity and also have vitamin K (? i think)..well one of the viatmins not found in mnay other foods..
skim milk is great though.
Ok, cool. How come only 1 scoop whey? I usually do 4 whole food protein meals(eggwhites, chicken, steak) and 2 whey shakes... is 50g whey too much for the body to use at one time?
-
Ok, cool. How come only 1 scoop whey? I usually do 4 whole food protein meals(eggwhites, chicken, steak) and 2 whey shakes... is 50g whey too much for the body to use at one time?
what do you mean by "use" ? 50grams is way more than needed to get optimal results.. as far as whey protein is concerned, you only need about 2.5 grams every 20 minutes to maximize growth... (im using that number specifically, as its from a protein metabolism study).. and a total intake of about 1.5 to 2 grams per kilogram of lean bodyweight.. so if you have 200 lbs of lean body weight..meaning you can compete at 200+... then you only need about 150-200grams protein per day total to maximize growth... anything more than that wont help you gain any better... unless carbohydrate intake is very low..
-
what do you mean by "use" ? 50grams is way more than needed to get optimal results.. as far as whey protein is concerned, you only need about 2.5 grams every 20 minutes to maximize growth... (im using that number specifically, as its from a protein metabolism study).. and a total intake of about 1.5 to 2 grams per kilogram of lean bodyweight.. so if you have 200 lbs of lean body weight..meaning you can compete at 200+... then you only need about 150-200grams protein per day total to maximize growth... anything more than that wont help you gain any better... unless carbohydrate intake is very low..
By "use" I just meant will the body use it for muscle growth or will half of it be wasted. I could compete at 180 5'8 so i'd only need about 250g per day then right?
-
By "use" I just meant will the body use it for muscle growth or will half of it be wasted. I could compete at 180 5'8 so i'd only need about 250g per day then right?
180 lbs= roughly 81 kilos.
1.5 to 2 grams per kilo
81 X 2 = 162 grams per day
and thats high end. but assuming good carb intake.
-
what do you mean by "use" ? 50grams is way more than needed to get optimal results.. as far as whey protein is concerned, you only need about 2.5 grams every 20 minutes to maximize growth... (im using that number specifically, as its from a protein metabolism study).. and a total intake of about 1.5 to 2 grams per kilogram of lean bodyweight.. so if you have 200 lbs of lean body weight..meaning you can compete at 200+... then you only need about 150-200grams protein per day total to maximize growth... anything more than that wont help you gain any better... unless carbohydrate intake is very low..
unless you are chemically enhanced.. riiiight?
-
unless you are chemically enhanced.. riiiight?
if you are chemically enhanced you probably need less protein. you will use what you eat more efficiently and recycle protein better, and use less of protein for energy.
-
if you are chemically enhanced you probably need less protein. you will use what you eat more efficiently and recycle protein better, and use less of protein for energy.
so youre saying that between a 4000cals diet of 800carbs and 200prot and another of 600carbs 400prot, the best one to grow on gear is the 200prot one?? doesnt make sense to me because juice/insulin/watever is supposed to make muscle absorbs most of the protein you ingest... naturally 150-200g is ok because your body is not as anabolic and cannot use all the protein... man i remember when i was eating 350g of prot,525carbs everyday while natural..hardcore diet,eating chicken breast, oatmeal, rice, couscous, protein drinks, cottage cheese,tuna, flaxseed oil..wasted so much time lmao, now i only watch getting atleast 2700cal and 150gprot, carbs source doesnt matter anymore,, im way leaner and growing at the same time,farts dont smell like hell.. bodybuilding is easy mode
-
what do you mean by "use" ? 50grams is way more than needed to get optimal results.. as far as whey protein is concerned, you only need about 2.5 grams every 20 minutes to maximize growth... (im using that number specifically, as its from a protein metabolism study).. and a total intake of about 1.5 to 2 grams per kilogram of lean bodyweight.. so if you have 200 lbs of lean body weight..meaning you can compete at 200+... then you only need about 150-200grams protein per day total to maximize growth... anything more than that wont help you gain any better... unless carbohydrate intake is very low..
are you kidding ??? that's less than 0.75- 1g per lb of bodyweight :o
what are u basing this on?? does this mean you only eat 200 protein a day??
so youre saying that between a 4000cals diet of 800carbs and 200prot and another of 600carbs 400prot, the best one to grow on gear is the 200prot one?? doesnt make sense to me because juice/insulin/watever is supposed to make muscle absorbs most of the protein you ingest... naturally 150-200g is ok because your body is not as anabolic and cannot use all the protein... man i remember when i was eating 350g of prot,525carbs everyday while natural..hardcore diet,eating chicken breast, oatmeal, rice, couscous, protein drinks, cottage cheese,tuna, flaxseed oil..wasted so much time lmao, now i only watch getting atleast 2700cal and 150gprot, carbs source doesnt matter anymore,, im way leaner and growing at the same time,farts dont smell like hell.. bodybuilding is easy mode
nononon that just can't be...what is the body gonna do with 800carbs?? way too much unless you train 3-4hrs or use slin
10 out of 10 times i would pick 600c/400p
-
are you kidding ??? that's less than 0.75- 1g per lb of bodyweight :o
what are u basing this on?? does this mean you only eat 200 protein a day??
It's hard to find scientific data supporting very high protein intakes.
Few studies looking at protein metabolism (and different protein intakes) in steroid users. Studies suggest steroids enhance amino acid recycling so it might be that you can get away with less.
One recent study:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091026125543.htm
Is the mega doses of protein the Doggcrappers for example eat, even if juiced to the gills, doing anything other than supplying energy? Who knows for sure, I suspect they aren't getting much additional growth stimulation from it.
-
Basically tbombz is saying that protein is very important, but overdoing it won't help you. 1g per lb of lean body mass and you're getting plenty...
-
While tbombz is right that de-novo lipogenesis rarely occurs in humans, it still is basically like so that if you exceed your energy expenditure in calories you will store the rest as fat. It's a long debate to go into all the details but one interesting thing is that one way to induce de-novo lipogenesis is to eat very low fats! Extremely high carbs is another. Very high carbs and very low fats = de-novo lipogenesis. And whatever fat you eat when eating high carbs, even if not mixing it with the carbs, will be stored since there is no need to burn it for energy. Of course there will be no lipolysis occurring either.
Yup.
van which studies did you read this in?
what do you mean by "use" ? 50grams is way more than needed to get optimal results.. as far as whey protein is concerned, you only need about 2.5 grams every 20 minutes to maximize growth... (im using that number specifically, as its from a protein metabolism study).. and a total intake of about 1.5 to 2 grams per kilogram of lean bodyweight.. so if you have 200 lbs of lean body weight..meaning you can compete at 200+... then you only need about 150-200grams protein per day total to maximize growth... anything more than that wont help you gain any better... unless carbohydrate intake is very low..
which study candy ?
-
It's hard to find scientific data supporting very high protein intakes.
Few studies looking at protein metabolism (and different protein intakes) in steroid users. Studies suggest steroids enhance amino acid recycling so it might be that you can get away with less.
One recent study:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091026125543.htm
Is the mega doses of protein the Doggcrappers for example eat, even if juiced to the gills, doing anything other than supplying energy? Who knows for sure, I suspect they aren't getting much additional growth stimulation from it.
wow, don't know if it's true. It just seems so little... i aim for 1.5g per lb, going down to 1g would definitely save alot of chicken dollars............. but then you have to eat much more carbs to keep calories the same.
-
van which studies did you read this in?
Which part?
Here's a good article on the "separate carbs and fat" dictum. Also mentions us being in a fed state all day long anyway, with insulin above fasted range, like I said before.
http://avidityfitness.net/2008/09/24/carbs-and-fat-friends-after-all/
For most of us, there’s a constant meal absorption overlap that keeps insulin, glucose, amino acids, and lipids in the blood above fasting levels. Since we spend most of our waking hours in the ‘fed state’, it’s flat-out silly to think we can avoid this overlap by simply separating our carb and fat intake by a few hours.
Another on de-novo lipogenesis
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-hydroxycitrate-on-net-fat-synthesis-as-de-novo-lipogenesis.html
The majority of research in humans has not found DNL to contribute significantly to fat gain except under a few very extreme conditions. They are
1. An artificially low-fat diet: less than 10% of total calories which well-meaning but otherwise misguided athletes and bodybuilders sometimes try to achieve.
2. Chronic massive carbohydrate overfeeding: one study (Acheson et. al., 1988) gave 700-900 grams of carbohydrates for 3 straight days following glycogen depletion. In the first 24 hours, as glycogen was refilled, there was no net DNL. Over the next 2 days, as carb intake remained massive and sustained, DNL increased and a significant amount of fat was synthesized. This is part of why diets like Bodyopus and my Ultimate Diet 2.0 taper carbohydrates down as the carb-load continues.
I recommend Alan Aragon's and Lyle McDonald's stuff for no BS diet info that can be backed up with science.
-
Which part?
Here's a good article on the "separate carbs and fat" dictum. Also mentions us being in a fed state all day long anyway, with insulin above fasted range, like I said before.
http://avidityfitness.net/2008/09/24/carbs-and-fat-friends-after-all/
Another on de-novo lipogenesis
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-hydroxycitrate-on-net-fat-synthesis-as-de-novo-lipogenesis.html
I recommend Alan Aragon's and Lyle McDonald's stuff for no BS diet info that can be backed up with science.
thanks, it was the bodyrecomp link i was looking for to get the name of the study 8)
yes i enjoy alan and lyles work very much.
-
so youre saying that between a 4000cals diet of 800carbs and 200prot and another of 600carbs 400prot, the best one to grow on gear is the 200prot one?? doesnt make sense to me because juice/insulin/watever is supposed to make muscle absorbs most of the protein you ingest... naturally 150-200g is ok because your body is not as anabolic and cannot use all the protein... man i remember when i was eating 350g of prot,525carbs everyday while natural..hardcore diet,eating chicken breast, oatmeal, rice, couscous, protein drinks, cottage cheese,tuna, flaxseed oil..wasted so much time lmao, now i only watch getting atleast 2700cal and 150gprot, carbs source doesnt matter anymore,, im way leaner and growing at the same time,farts dont smell like hell.. bodybuilding is easy mode
once youve reached the otimum protien intake, your better off with adding more carbs. so yes if you are 200lbs of lean mass, or less, then a diet with 200grams protein and 800 grams carbs should be better for you than a diet with more protein and less carbs, since youve already reached the threshhold for optimizing gains through protein intake.
-
A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans
Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).
Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)
Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% [using nonoxidative leucine disposal (NOLD) as an index of protein synthesis] (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).
The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.
This "slow" and "fast" protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.
Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.
The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.
The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.
Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.
From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).
Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function.
-
once youve reached the otimum protien intake, your better off with adding more carbs. so yes if you are 200lbs of lean mass, or less, then a diet with 200grams protein and 800 grams carbs should be better for you than a diet with more protein and less carbs, since youve already reached the threshhold for optimizing gains through protein intake.
post your diet??
-
post your diet??
i dont have a set diet everyday but generally it looks something like this
9 ounces chicken
1 cup dry rice
9 ounces chicken
1 cup dry rice
9 ounces lean beef
2 cups dry rice
bowl of cereal
big dinner (whatever is made, ill eat a decent amount of protein, then all the carbs i can eat. i try to keep fat intake low. )
snacks till i sleep (stuff like fat free ice cream, pretzels, maybe some fruit, dextrose based candies.... etc whatever my heart desires, i just try to keep fat low)
probably about 800 grams carbs and about 200 grams protien and maybe about 75 grams of fat
-
i dont have a set diet everyday but generally it looks something like this
9 ounces chicken
1 cup dry rice
9 ounces chicken
1 cup dry rice
9 ounces lean beef
2 cups dry rice
bowl of cereal
big dinner (whatever is made, ill eat a decent amount of protein, then all the carbs i can eat. i try to keep fat intake low. )
snacks till i sleep (stuff like fat free ice cream, pretzels, maybe some fruit, dextrose based candies.... etc whatever my heart desires, i just try to keep fat low)
probably about 800 grams carbs and about 200 grams protien and maybe about 75 grams of fat
whats your bf like candy ?
what is your favorite sole steroid? test or tren and why ?
-
whats your bf like candy ?
what is your favorite sole steroid? test or tren and why ?
its high, like 15-16%. but its not high because i have been putting on fat, its high just cuz it started out high to begin with.
favorites=
1. test... always use it no matter whats
2. tren...love the strength, aggression, and its great for size and cuts as well
3. halotestin...love the aggression and strength, only reaosn it wouldnt be a mainstay is because it fucks my appetite
4. equipoise...a good roid to cycle in for tren, has good effect for mass cuz it helps appetite a little and anabolic too
5. dbol.... good mindset with the stuff...but again, orals= fucked appetite
6. winstrol...great for muscle stamina, workouts feel awesome, and prettyy good for leaning me out..but it only works with mega dosing, and it kills my appetite
7. anavar..great for leaning, but its pricey and it kills appetite
8. deca...not good for much, at leats for me...
9. tbol...didnt do much even with big doseage, and kills appetite
10. anadrol..even mega dosing this i didfnt get jack shit..plus it made me depressed lethargic gave me headaches and kiled my appetite
-
workouts feel awesome on Winstrol?
Cool. What do you consider a megadose and for how long?
-
workouts feel awesome on Winstrol?
Cool. What do you consider a megadose and for how long?
yeah winstrol made me feel like a the energizer bunny.. my muscles and joints and everything felt like i was a machine.. i could go and go and go and go...
in one week i went through three 30cc bottles of 50mg winny... it worked good as i leaned out real dramatically for a one week period, and my workouts were awesome, but there was zero mass gains... and that much winny is expensive..
-
A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans
Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).
Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)
Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% [using nonoxidative leucine disposal (NOLD) as an index of protein synthesis] (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).
The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.
This "slow" and "fast" protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.
Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.
The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.
The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.
Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.
From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).
Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function.
all we need now is a study that shows how absorbtion rates of amino's are effected by test etc 8)
-
all we need now is a study that shows how absorbtion rates of amino's are effected by test etc 8)
true that
-
probably about 800 grams carbs and about 200 grams protien and maybe about 75 grams of fat
how can you eat 800g carbs a day :-X
is your gut huge? you gotta get a lot of distension with that. i do with 400-500g...
-
in one week i went through three 30cc bottles of 50mg winny...
Holy fucking shit. You sure you didn't mistype? ??? :D
-
Holy fucking shit. You sure you didn't mistype? ??? :D
you know that that wasnt a mistype ;D
i have cut down my roids to a third of what i was taking for the last 6 months... and 2 month later ive been making the best gains ive ever made..
-
you know that that wasnt a mistype ;D
i have cut down my roids to a third of what i was taking for the last 6 months... and 2 month later ive been making the best gains ive ever made..
What are the drugs/dosages now? What do you think the reason for better gains with less gear is?
-
you know that that wasnt a mistype ;D
i have cut down my roids to a third of what i was taking for the last 6 months... and 2 month later ive been making the best gains ive ever made..
That must be some kind of record as far as Winny dose in one week. :o :D Jesus Christ. ;D
-
tbombz what's your weight at? what ancillaries do you take for your non stop cycle? (adex?)
-
majeeb right now im using test and tren (both enanthate) on mon-wed-fri
darksnake- no ancillaries.