Author Topic: fat control when using insulin  (Read 12442 times)

tbombz

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2009, 09:07:59 PM »
unless you are chemically enhanced.. riiiight?
if you are chemically enhanced you probably need less protein. you will use what you eat more efficiently and recycle protein better, and use less of protein for energy.

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2009, 10:00:41 PM »
if you are chemically enhanced you probably need less protein. you will use what you eat more efficiently and recycle protein better, and use less of protein for energy.

so youre saying that between a 4000cals diet of 800carbs and 200prot and another of 600carbs 400prot, the best one to grow on gear is the 200prot one?? doesnt make sense to me because juice/insulin/watever is supposed to make muscle absorbs most of the protein you ingest... naturally 150-200g is ok because your body is not as anabolic and cannot use all the protein... man i remember when i was eating 350g of prot,525carbs everyday while natural..hardcore diet,eating chicken breast, oatmeal, rice, couscous, protein drinks, cottage cheese,tuna, flaxseed oil..wasted so much time lmao, now i only watch getting atleast 2700cal and 150gprot, carbs source doesnt matter anymore,, im way leaner and growing at the same time,farts dont smell like hell.. bodybuilding is easy mode

Bobby

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2009, 10:38:36 AM »
what do you mean by "use" ?  50grams is way more than needed to get optimal results.. as far as whey protein is concerned, you only need about 2.5 grams every 20 minutes to maximize growth... (im using that number specifically, as its from a protein metabolism study).. and a total intake of about 1.5 to 2 grams per kilogram of lean bodyweight.. so if you have 200 lbs of lean body weight..meaning you can compete at 200+... then you only need about 150-200grams protein per day total to maximize growth...  anything more than that wont help you gain any better... unless carbohydrate intake is very low..

are you kidding ??? that's less than 0.75- 1g per lb of bodyweight :o
what are u basing this on?? does this mean you only eat 200 protein a day??

so youre saying that between a 4000cals diet of 800carbs and 200prot and another of 600carbs 400prot, the best one to grow on gear is the 200prot one?? doesnt make sense to me because juice/insulin/watever is supposed to make muscle absorbs most of the protein you ingest... naturally 150-200g is ok because your body is not as anabolic and cannot use all the protein... man i remember when i was eating 350g of prot,525carbs everyday while natural..hardcore diet,eating chicken breast, oatmeal, rice, couscous, protein drinks, cottage cheese,tuna, flaxseed oil..wasted so much time lmao, now i only watch getting atleast 2700cal and 150gprot, carbs source doesnt matter anymore,, im way leaner and growing at the same time,farts dont smell like hell.. bodybuilding is easy mode

nononon that just can't be...what is the body gonna do with 800carbs?? way too much unless you train 3-4hrs or use slin
10 out of 10 times i would pick 600c/400p
tank u jesus

Van_Bilderass

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2009, 12:00:57 PM »
are you kidding ??? that's less than 0.75- 1g per lb of bodyweight :o
what are u basing this on?? does this mean you only eat 200 protein a day??

It's hard to find scientific data supporting very high protein intakes.

Few studies looking at protein metabolism (and different protein intakes) in steroid users. Studies suggest steroids enhance amino acid recycling so it might be that you can get away with less.

One recent study:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091026125543.htm

Is the mega doses of protein the Doggcrappers for example eat, even if juiced to the gills, doing anything other than supplying energy? Who knows for sure, I suspect they aren't getting much additional growth stimulation from it.

Nasty Nate

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2009, 12:05:10 PM »
Basically tbombz is saying that protein is very important, but overdoing it won't help you. 1g per lb of lean body mass and you're getting plenty...

Fatpanda

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2009, 01:01:13 PM »
While tbombz is right that de-novo lipogenesis rarely occurs in humans, it still is basically like so that if you exceed your energy expenditure in calories you will store the rest as fat. It's a long debate to go into all the details but one interesting thing is that one way to induce de-novo lipogenesis is to eat very low fats! Extremely high carbs is another. Very high carbs and very low fats = de-novo lipogenesis. And whatever fat you eat when eating high carbs, even if not mixing it with the carbs, will be stored since there is no need to burn it for energy. Of course there will be no lipolysis occurring either.

Yup.

van which studies did you read this in?

what do you mean by "use" ?  50grams is way more than needed to get optimal results.. as far as whey protein is concerned, you only need about 2.5 grams every 20 minutes to maximize growth... (im using that number specifically, as its from a protein metabolism study).. and a total intake of about 1.5 to 2 grams per kilogram of lean bodyweight.. so if you have 200 lbs of lean body weight..meaning you can compete at 200+... then you only need about 150-200grams protein per day total to maximize growth...  anything more than that wont help you gain any better... unless carbohydrate intake is very low..

which study candy ?
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Bobby

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2009, 01:44:49 PM »
It's hard to find scientific data supporting very high protein intakes.

Few studies looking at protein metabolism (and different protein intakes) in steroid users. Studies suggest steroids enhance amino acid recycling so it might be that you can get away with less.

One recent study:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091026125543.htm

Is the mega doses of protein the Doggcrappers for example eat, even if juiced to the gills, doing anything other than supplying energy? Who knows for sure, I suspect they aren't getting much additional growth stimulation from it.

wow, don't know if it's true. It just seems so little... i aim for 1.5g per lb, going down to 1g would definitely save alot of chicken dollars............. but then you have to eat much more carbs to keep calories the same.
tank u jesus

Van_Bilderass

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2009, 02:31:14 PM »
van which studies did you read this in?

Which part?

Here's a good article on the "separate carbs and fat" dictum. Also mentions us being in a fed state all day long anyway, with insulin above fasted range, like I said before.

http://avidityfitness.net/2008/09/24/carbs-and-fat-friends-after-all/

Quote
For most of us, there’s a constant meal absorption overlap that keeps insulin, glucose, amino acids, and lipids in the blood above fasting levels. Since we spend most of our waking hours in the ‘fed state’, it’s flat-out silly to think we can avoid this overlap by simply separating our carb and fat intake by a few hours.

Another on de-novo lipogenesis

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-hydroxycitrate-on-net-fat-synthesis-as-de-novo-lipogenesis.html

Quote
The majority of research in humans has not found DNL to contribute significantly to fat gain except under a few very extreme conditions. They are

   1. An artificially low-fat diet: less than 10% of total calories which well-meaning but otherwise misguided athletes and bodybuilders sometimes try to achieve.
   2. Chronic massive carbohydrate overfeeding: one study (Acheson et. al., 1988) gave 700-900 grams of carbohydrates for 3 straight days following glycogen depletion. In the first 24 hours, as glycogen was refilled, there was no net DNL. Over the next 2 days, as carb intake remained massive and sustained, DNL increased and a significant amount of fat was synthesized. This is part of why diets like Bodyopus and my Ultimate Diet 2.0 taper carbohydrates down as the carb-load continues.

I recommend Alan Aragon's and Lyle McDonald's stuff for no BS diet info that can be backed up with science.

Fatpanda

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2009, 02:48:49 PM »
Which part?

Here's a good article on the "separate carbs and fat" dictum. Also mentions us being in a fed state all day long anyway, with insulin above fasted range, like I said before.

http://avidityfitness.net/2008/09/24/carbs-and-fat-friends-after-all/

Another on de-novo lipogenesis

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-hydroxycitrate-on-net-fat-synthesis-as-de-novo-lipogenesis.html

I recommend Alan Aragon's and Lyle McDonald's stuff for no BS diet info that can be backed up with science.

thanks, it was the bodyrecomp link i was looking for to get the name of the study  8)

yes i enjoy alan and lyles work very much.
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tbombz

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2009, 06:04:28 PM »
so youre saying that between a 4000cals diet of 800carbs and 200prot and another of 600carbs 400prot, the best one to grow on gear is the 200prot one?? doesnt make sense to me because juice/insulin/watever is supposed to make muscle absorbs most of the protein you ingest... naturally 150-200g is ok because your body is not as anabolic and cannot use all the protein... man i remember when i was eating 350g of prot,525carbs everyday while natural..hardcore diet,eating chicken breast, oatmeal, rice, couscous, protein drinks, cottage cheese,tuna, flaxseed oil..wasted so much time lmao, now i only watch getting atleast 2700cal and 150gprot, carbs source doesnt matter anymore,, im way leaner and growing at the same time,farts dont smell like hell.. bodybuilding is easy mode

once youve reached the otimum protien intake, your better off with adding more carbs. so yes if you are 200lbs of lean mass, or less, then a diet with 200grams protein and 800 grams carbs should be better for you than a diet with more protein and less carbs, since youve already reached the threshhold for optimizing gains through protein intake.

tbombz

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2009, 06:17:34 PM »
A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans

Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).

Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)

Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% [using nonoxidative leucine disposal (NOLD) as an index of protein synthesis] (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).

The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.

This "slow" and "fast" protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.

Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.

The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.

The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.

Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.

From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).

Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function.

Bobby

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2009, 06:40:28 PM »
once youve reached the otimum protien intake, your better off with adding more carbs. so yes if you are 200lbs of lean mass, or less, then a diet with 200grams protein and 800 grams carbs should be better for you than a diet with more protein and less carbs, since youve already reached the threshhold for optimizing gains through protein intake.

post your diet??
tank u jesus

tbombz

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2009, 12:34:24 PM »
post your diet??

i dont have a set diet everyday but generally it looks something like this


9 ounces chicken
1 cup dry rice


9 ounces chicken
1 cup dry rice


9 ounces lean beef
2 cups dry rice
bowl of cereal


big dinner (whatever is made, ill eat a decent amount of protein, then all the carbs i can eat. i try to keep fat intake low. )


snacks till i sleep (stuff like fat free ice cream, pretzels, maybe some fruit, dextrose based candies.... etc whatever my heart desires, i just try to keep fat low)



probably about 800 grams carbs and about 200 grams protien and maybe about 75 grams of fat


Fatpanda

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2009, 02:09:44 PM »
i dont have a set diet everyday but generally it looks something like this


9 ounces chicken
1 cup dry rice


9 ounces chicken
1 cup dry rice


9 ounces lean beef
2 cups dry rice
bowl of cereal


big dinner (whatever is made, ill eat a decent amount of protein, then all the carbs i can eat. i try to keep fat intake low. )


snacks till i sleep (stuff like fat free ice cream, pretzels, maybe some fruit, dextrose based candies.... etc whatever my heart desires, i just try to keep fat low)



probably about 800 grams carbs and about 200 grams protien and maybe about 75 grams of fat



whats your bf like candy ?

what is your favorite sole steroid? test or tren and why ?
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tbombz

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2009, 02:29:14 PM »
whats your bf like candy ?

what is your favorite sole steroid? test or tren and why ?
its high, like 15-16%. but its not high because i have been putting on fat, its high just cuz it started out high to begin with.

favorites=

1. test... always use it no matter whats
2. tren...love the strength, aggression, and its great for size and cuts as well
3. halotestin...love the aggression and strength, only reaosn it wouldnt be a mainstay is because it fucks my appetite
4. equipoise...a good roid to cycle in for tren, has good effect for mass cuz it helps appetite a little and anabolic too
5. dbol.... good mindset with the stuff...but again, orals= fucked appetite
6. winstrol...great for muscle stamina, workouts feel awesome, and prettyy good for leaning me out..but it only works with mega dosing, and it kills my appetite
7. anavar..great for leaning, but its pricey and it kills appetite
8. deca...not good for much, at leats for me...
9. tbol...didnt do much even with big doseage, and kills appetite
10. anadrol..even mega dosing this i didfnt get jack shit..plus it made me depressed lethargic gave me headaches and kiled my appetite

dyslexic

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2009, 10:40:21 PM »
workouts feel awesome on Winstrol?


Cool. What do you consider a megadose and for how long?

tbombz

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2009, 12:55:17 PM »
workouts feel awesome on Winstrol?


Cool. What do you consider a megadose and for how long?
yeah winstrol made me feel like a the energizer bunny.. my muscles and joints and everything felt like i was a machine.. i could go and go and go and go...

in one week i went through three 30cc bottles of 50mg winny...  it worked good as i leaned out real dramatically for a one week period, and my workouts were awesome, but there was zero mass gains... and that much winny is expensive..

Fatpanda

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2009, 01:58:33 PM »
A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans

Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).

Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)

Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% [using nonoxidative leucine disposal (NOLD) as an index of protein synthesis] (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).

The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.

This "slow" and "fast" protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.

Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.

The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.

The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.

Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.

From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).

Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function.

all we need now is a study that shows how absorbtion rates of amino's are effected by test etc  8)
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tbombz

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2009, 02:07:42 PM »
all we need now is a study that shows how absorbtion rates of amino's are effected by test etc  8)
true that

Bobby

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2009, 11:08:07 AM »

probably about 800 grams carbs and about 200 grams protien and maybe about 75 grams of fat



how can you eat 800g carbs a day :-X

is your gut huge? you gotta get a lot of distension with that. i do with 400-500g...
tank u jesus

Van_Bilderass

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2009, 01:39:45 PM »

in one week i went through three 30cc bottles of 50mg winny... 

Holy fucking shit. You sure you didn't mistype?  ??? :D

tbombz

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2009, 02:08:26 PM »
Holy fucking shit. You sure you didn't mistype?  ??? :D
you know that that wasnt a mistype  ;D

i have cut down my roids to a third of what i was taking for the last 6 months... and 2 month later ive been making the best gains ive ever made.. 

Nasty Nate

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2009, 02:43:33 PM »
you know that that wasnt a mistype  ;D

i have cut down my roids to a third of what i was taking for the last 6 months... and 2 month later ive been making the best gains ive ever made.. 

What are the drugs/dosages now? What do you think the reason for better gains with less gear is?

Van_Bilderass

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2009, 02:45:48 PM »
you know that that wasnt a mistype  ;D

i have cut down my roids to a third of what i was taking for the last 6 months... and 2 month later ive been making the best gains ive ever made.. 

That must be some kind of record as far as Winny dose in one week. :o :D Jesus Christ. ;D

bigdarksnake

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Re: fat control when using insulin
« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2009, 03:09:20 PM »
tbombz what's your weight at? what ancillaries do you take for your non stop cycle? (adex?)