Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: GetItOnNY on December 11, 2009, 11:09:52 PM
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After seeing the 2009 Team Universe, especially the heavyweight class.I was thinking of giving the 2010 TU a shot.I been off all anabolics for over 2 1/2 years.The drug test requires only 1 year clean.Right now I am 248 lbs and I could get up to 255lbs naturally.My body cannot get over 255lbs without anabolics, my metabolism is just to fast.
I figure I could step on stage at 220 -225lbs lean and hard.Plus after 24 years of training I got alot of muscle maturity.We shall see.I am going to start training for it.If I think I am ready 12 weeks out , I am going for it.Whats funny is people thought I looked better when I was natural then I did on anabolics, lol........Maybe they are right
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After seeing the 2009 Team Universe, especially the heavyweight class.I was thinking of giving the 2010 TU a shot.I been off all anabolics for over 2 1/2 years.The drug test requires only 1 year clean.Right now I am 248 lbs and I could get up to 255lbs naturally.My body cannot get over 255lbs without anabolics, my metabolism is just to fast.
I figure I could step on stage at 220 -225lbs lean and hard.Plus after 24 years of training I got alot of muscle maturity.We shall see.I am going to start training for it.If I think I am ready 12 weeks out , I am going for it.Whats funny is people thought I looked better when I was natural then I did on anabolics, lol........Maybe they are right
Do it GetITOn,,sounds like you may have a shot at it if Vince Goodrum dont show up.
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Show us a picture of your best while you were natural. ;)
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Who are you? Pics please! :D
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After seeing the 2009 Team Universe, especially the heavyweight class.I was thinking of giving the 2010 TU a shot.I been off all anabolics for over 2 1/2 years.The drug test requires only 1 year clean.Right now I am 248 lbs and I could get up to 255lbs naturally.My body cannot get over 255lbs without anabolics, my metabolism is just to fast.
I figure I could step on stage at 220 -225lbs lean and hard.Plus after 24 years of training I got alot of muscle maturity.We shall see.I am going to start training for it.If I think I am ready 12 weeks out , I am going for it.Whats funny is people thought I looked better when I was natural then I did on anabolics, lol........Maybe they are right
pics or you never happened.
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After seeing the 2009 Team Universe, especially the heavyweight class.I was thinking of giving the 2010 TU a shot.I been off all anabolics for over 2 1/2 years.The drug test requires only 1 year clean.Right now I am 248 lbs and I could get up to 255lbs naturally.My body cannot get over 255lbs without anabolics, my metabolism is just to fast.
I figure I could step on stage at 220 -225lbs lean and hard.Plus after 24 years of training I got alot of muscle maturity.We shall see.I am going to start training for it.If I think I am ready 12 weeks out , I am going for it.Whats funny is people thought I looked better when I was natural then I did on anabolics, lol........Maybe they are right
If your metabolism was to fast you wouldnt weigh over 180pounds let alone 255pds "naturaly" ::)
And all the TU guys are "enhanced"
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Listen, I am 5'11, I have large heavy bone.All my relative were 5'9" -5'11" 250-260lb and none of them worked out.My father never lifter a weight in his life, yet had cloe to 18" arm.
All of my relatives are big huky men from Naples Italy.
I am going to post 2 pics.The fiorst pic I was totally drug free, at 216-218lbs.This photo wa taken right after I won the Mr Natural World.I was drugg tested, Urine, Blood and Polygraph, beleive it or not, and pased them all.I trained 15 years in the first pic, and I was just about 32 years of age.The second pic I am 258lbs on anabolics and was taken at 38 years of age
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Liten, I am 5'11, I have large heavy bone.All my relative were 5'9" -5'11" 250-260lb and none of them worked out.My father never lifter a weight in his life, yet had cloe to 18" arm.
All of my relatives are big huky men from Naples Italy.
I am going to post 2 pics.The fiorst pic I was totally drug free, at 216-218lbs.This photo wa taken right after I won the Mr Natural World.I was drugg tested, Urine, Blood and Polygraph, beleive it or not, and pased them all.I trained 15 years in the first pic, and I was just about 32 years of age.The second pic I am 258lbs on anabolics and was taken at 38 years of age
Go for it John....I was contemplating not doing another show, but I think I am going to do a masters pro show next year. I think you should give it another go around!!!
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Liten, I am 5'11, I have large heavy bone.All my relative were 5'9" -5'11" 250-260lb and none of them worked out.My father never lifter a weight in his life, yet had cloe to 18" arm.
All of my relatives are big huky men from Naples Italy.
I am going to post 2 pics.The fiorst pic I was totally drug free, at 216-218lbs.This photo wa taken right after I won the Mr Natural World.I was drugg tested, Urine, Blood and Polygraph, beleive it or not, and pased them all.I trained 15 years in the first pic, and I was just about 32 years of age.The second pic I am 258lbs on anabolics and was taken at 38 years of age
Oh ok, thought you might be somoene else... but what a coincidence, some idiot kept bugging me online a couple years ago using your pics claiming he was you. Wish I could remember the details now.
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why not john
but why not use drugs, they all do at that show
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Curt Thank you.....I know I cant do WNBF or re-use my PNBA, pro card, because I have to be drug free for 7 years.I am not going to lie
Stavios I wouldn't enter a natural show on drugs, even if everybody else did.Its about integrity.When I did Team Universe, and the Muscle Mania I was totally drug free...Where the other competitors? Probably not.In my opinion if you enter a drug tested show on drugs, you are a scum bag and a loser.If your natural or claim to be natural be natural.
If you use drugs, be a real man and compete against the guys on drugs.
I hate these head hunters who go into natural shows, juiced out of there mind and make people think they are natural....I don't know how they look themselves in the mirror....
They are liars ,crooks, and scum!!!!!
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The drug test requires only 1 year clean.
the rules state 3 years drug free, but the contest only 'requires' you to pass the test the day of the show.
I trained 15 years in the first pic, and I was just about 32 years of age.The second pic I am 258lbs on anabolics and was taken at 38 years of age
I like the pic with hair
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always said good build,good both ways obviously drugged was fuller and thicker,natural not too shabby....
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If John uses his OWN supplements then he isn't steroid free.
bb.com dropped his line due to the possibly illegal anabolic steroids he was selling :D
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/exl/exl.htm
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If John uses his OWN supplements then he isn't steroid free.
bb.com dropped his line due to the possibly illegal anabolic steroids he was selling :D
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/exl/exl.htm
Where does it say that?
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I really doubt TU is tested lol
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I really doubt TU is tested lol
Tell that to the female overall winner who got her pro card taken from her for failing the drug test. They test the top 2 in each class usually.
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Van BB.COM Didn't drop me, because of that.....They still owe me $10,000 so I am the one who terminated the relationship......Van if you did your home work, the FDAwas after a formula that I stopped making a year and a half ago.The product name was the same, but the ingredients changed.Bodybuilding.com didn't update the supplements facts so the FDA thought I was still selling that particular hormone.The FDA has even contacted me...so??????????
Van unless you no the facts please keep quiet.There was 50-60 companies that the FDA went after that bodybuilding.com sold....Did they drop any of those companies.....No!!!!!!
Our reltationship being terminated with bb.com had nothing to do with the FDA.....
It is now going to be in litigation, because of unpaid invoices, ...Plain and simple
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Van BB.COM Didnt drop me, because of that.....They still owe me $10,000 so I am the one who terminated the relationship......
Yes, I heard about some other companies complaining. ALR terminated their contract with BB.com as well as a few more. Don't know what's going on with them
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Van BB.COM Didn't drop me, because of that.....They still owe me $10,000 so I am the one who terminated the relationship......Van if you did your home work, the FDAwas after a formula that I stopped making a year and a half ago.The product name was the same, but the ingredients changed.Bodybuilding.com didn't update the supplements facts so the FDA thought I was still selling that particular hormone.The FDA has even contacted me...so??????????
Van unless you no the facts please keep quiet.There was 50-60 companies that the FDA went after that bodybuilding.com sold....Did they drop any of those companies.....No!!!!!!
Our reltationship being terminated with bb.com had nothing to do with the FDA.....
It is now going to be in litigation, because of unpaid invoices, ...Plain and simple
Owned Van...now you look even more like a stalking bitch with John.
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After seeing the 2009 Team Universe, especially the heavyweight class.I was thinking of giving the 2010 TU a shot.I been off all anabolics for over 2 1/2 years.The drug test requires only 1 year clean.Right now I am 248 lbs and I could get up to 255lbs naturally.My body cannot get over 255lbs without anabolics, my metabolism is just to fast.
I figure I could step on stage at 220 -225lbs lean and hard.Plus after 24 years of training I got alot of muscle maturity.We shall see.I am going to start training for it.If I think I am ready 12 weeks out , I am going for it.Whats funny is people thought I looked better when I was natural then I did on anabolics, lol........Maybe they are right
::) Ha! You really think many of the TU competitors are clean?
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Van BB.COM Didn't drop me, because of that.....They still owe me $10,000 so I am the one who terminated the relationship......Van if you did your home work, the FDAwas after a formula that I stopped making a year and a half ago.The product name was the same, but the ingredients changed.Bodybuilding.com didn't update the supplements facts so the FDA thought I was still selling that particular hormone.The FDA has even contacted me...so??????????
Van unless you no the facts please keep quiet.There was 50-60 companies that the FDA went after that bodybuilding.com sold....Did they drop any of those companies.....No!!!!!!
Our reltationship being terminated with bb.com had nothing to do with the FDA.....
It is now going to be in litigation, because of unpaid invoices, ...Plain and simple
Owned Van...now you look even more like a stalking bitch with John.
Really? So maybe he would have been able to continue selling his protein etc but John is deeply involved in the hormone business. He only sold one hormone a year and a half ago? :D
We are a protein company, not a hormone company.Prohormones only make up about 20% of our revenue.So if they take away prohormones, it wont hurt us that much.Plus since bodybuiilding .com has pulled our hormones off of there website it iincreased our sales of prohormones by over 300%.People are now in a panic and are buying up al the prohormones thety can get there hands on.
Vince we have always been a protein manufacture, so no matter what, we will always prosper.
But I must say its really nice that peope are buying up all our prohormones, for 2 reasons.1) its makiing us good money very fast 2) if the FDA bans prohormones, we wont have any left ,so if they come nto our werehouse, they wont find anything, lol
Vince most of our prohormones arent even sold in the USA,anyways, they are sold in other countires.The USA s to much of a hassle.Even iif they ban prohormones in the USA, we will be fine because we sell aot more in other countries.
To everybody, if you want to use prohormes or are thinking about using prohormones buy them now !!! Dont wait, when there gone they are gone.
We havent heard anything from the FDA but that doesnt mean they wont just wont put a" blanket" on prohormones.A blanket means they dont just ban certain compounds the 4 chloro, but they ban them all.
If they just ban certan compounds that is good news.We can just change a particuar hormone and just make it a diffrent by one molecule and its legal again.
Plus there are alof of pretty decent hormones that were around in the 1960's that the FDA doesnt know about or forgot about.
So Vince you might be happy bb.com took down some of my products, but it only helped has us.When a door closes, you ether find another door, or use the window.There is always an openng if you look hard enough, lol
This guy doesn't use his own products I'm sure. :D
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Really? So maybe he would have been able to continue selling his protein etc but John is deeply involved in the hormone business. He only sold one hormone a year and a half ago? :D
He was owed $10K....umm...thats right, keep selling product in the hopes that he will get paid on that stuff too. Hell of a business decision. ::) So what if he uses some of his own products? Dont recall if the TU bans prohormones....but I doubt they do.
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Tell that to the female overall winner who got her pro card taken from her for failing the drug test. They test the top 2 in each class usually.
I don't believe it. Name some names. People who test positive may not go to the Worlds, but its not in the IFBB interest to rescind an invitation to compete in pro contests where extreme drug use is mandatory.
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First of all Bodybuilding.com is a great company, I like Jeremy and Russ Deluca.
The problem was I was always owed $25,000 plus all the time..Ever since they got bought out by QVC the orders came in faster and the checks went out slower.
We gave them great pricing, and even paid shipping so are margins were very very slim.
I do want to do business again with them in the future,but the payments have to be within 7 days like we agreed upon not 7 weeks.
Now as far as Team Universe goes, I am going to start training next week.I haven't trained in 4 weeks I took a break.I am going to look at the rules, and if the rules say no prohormones, or no Ephedra, I wont use it....I will follow the rules to a "T".....
If I enter a natural show, I want to win or do well with integrity.
I maybe the only 'real" natural guy on that stage, but I will be able to look myself in the mirror, and live with myself.I don't know how guys can go around claiming there natural yet they use gear....Its stupid.When it comes to being natural or steroids I am totally neutral...
I dont judge anybody,,, its your body its your choice.If you do steroids your not a druggie, and if your natural you not swimmer.......We are all Athletes, we just chose diffrent paths to go down.......Van say what you want my supplements work,,,,,ask Curt, Drugfreeforlife, he will tell you...He has used my products for at least 6 years.All of my products are made in a GMP approved facility, and will make label claim....Trust me if I was devious and cut corners my company would be alot bigger.....But I am an athlete so I think like an athlete.
I make products that I would use, if I wouldn't use it why would I want someones to???
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I was looking and the Mr USA, is 3 weeks later maybe I willl do that show to....why not.
I know I will get killed but just to do the USA naturally as a heavyweight is quite an accomplisment
I havent trained in 4 weeks, because I had strept throat, and a sinus infection.
Today I weighed 247lbs, my arms are a tiny bit over 19 3/4 " with out a pump, my chest is 54, my legs are 29 1/2" and my calves are 18 1/2" .I usually dont measure body parts, but I wanted to know how much I lost by not training and being off gear over 2 1/2 years.I basically lost 4" on my chest,1 1/2" on my arms, 3" on my thighs and my calves only 1".....But I been training for 24 years. so my muscle maturity is definatly there.
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I don't believe it. Name some names. People who test positive may not go to the Worlds, but its not in the IFBB interest to rescind an invitation to compete in pro contests where extreme drug use is mandatory.
http://www.hardbody.com/news/2009/11/04/overall-team-universe-winner-michele-pome-disaqualified/#comments
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No female BB IFBB pro card was given out this year at the TU because of Michele Pome getting DQ.
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http://www.hardbody.com/news/2009/11/04/overall-team-universe-winner-michele-pome-disaqualified/
ok, she was DQed, but neither that link nor the npcnewsonline website says why she was disqualified. It's unlikely that only one person out of over 200 would have failed the drug test.
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I maybe the only 'real" natural guy on that stage, but I will be able to look myself in the mirror, and live with myself.I don't know how guys can go around claiming there natural yet they use gear....Its stupid.When it comes to being natural or steroids I am totally neutral...
ask Curt, Drugfreeforlife, he will tell you...He has used my products for at least 6 years.
you are not natural, neither is "drugfreeforlife" rofl.. You use prohormones, no difference from regular hormones.
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He was owed $10K....umm...thats right, keep selling product in the hopes that he will get paid on that stuff too. Hell of a business decision. ::) So what if he uses some of his own products? Dont recall if the TU bans prohormones....but I doubt they do.
So you use hormones, as long as they aren't detectable, banned or whatever? Hormones that the FDA "forgot about" which John can get you?
Some "natural" ::) :D
John, have you used any of the prohormones you sell? If you have, how can you call yourself a "real natural"?
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Listen, I am 5'11, I have large heavy bone.All my relative were 5'9" -5'11" 250-260lb and none of them worked out.My father never lifter a weight in his life, yet had cloe to 18" arm.
All of my relatives are big huky men from Naples Italy.
I am going to post 2 pics.The fiorst pic I was totally drug free, at 216-218lbs.This photo wa taken right after I won the Mr Natural World.I was drugg tested, Urine, Blood and Polygraph, beleive it or not, and pased them all.I trained 15 years in the first pic, and I was just about 32 years of age.The second pic I am 258lbs on anabolics and was taken at 38 years of age
That second guy's not Skip la cour
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He's the only natural bodybuilder who is really natural.
He's the only supplement maker who make legit stuff.
::)
I guess when you discredit everyone around you, that make you the best...in your own mind.
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Van,, I haven't even used my prohormones in some time.Heck I have even trained in 4 weeks...I am going to use them only if they are allowed in Team Universe.If they are not allowed they I will not use them.I don't care if they are not detectable, its about integrity.
When I enter a contest, I follow the rules, some people may not but they means I wont.
When you say your natural, it means your saying you followed the rules and only used substances they they are not banned substances.
As far as prohormones go, if you think for one moment that prohormones aren't natural your dreaming.
Even the best prohormone isn't even 5% as strong as real steroids.They have short half life in the body, and aren't nearly as strong.I know companies claim they are as good as steroids, but they are full of shit.
Trust me I don't care how many pro-hormones you took, it would never equal the strength of steroids.
Unless they are "spiked" like some scum bags companies who put steroids in there products.
If a company puts steroids in a product and make people think its a prohormone, they should get a mandatory 10 years in jail.When a owner of a company "spikes "a product they are making a decision for a person.If people wants to take steroids, they will buy steroids.They wouldn't be buying prohormones, they would buy real juice........
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As far as prohormones go, if you think for one moment that prohormones aren't natural your dreaming.
Even the best prohormone isn't even 5% as strong as real steroids.They have short half life in the body, and aren't nearly as strong.I know companies claim they are as good as steroids, but they are full of shit.
Trust me I don't care how many pro-hormones you took, it would never equal the strength of steroids.
so therefore, it's the effectiveness of a drug that determines if it is natural? So Anavar is more natural than Anabol? And Androgel is more natural than Anavar
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as you can see in this thread bodybuilders are liers, specially when they compete. also have own defenitions of natural. a natural has never touched any hormones and that includes pro hormones. you are not natural just because you beat a drug test or some drug isnt banned from a certain federation or because you been clean for a few months (which also is a lie)
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Van,, I haven't even used my prohormones in some time.Heck I have even trained in 4 weeks...I am going to use them only if they are allowed in Team Universe.If they are not allowed they I will not use them.I don't care if they are not detectable, its about integrity.
When I enter a contest, I follow the rules, some people may not but they means I wont.
When you say your natural, it means your saying you followed the rules and only used substances they they are not banned substances.
As far as prohormones go, if you think for one moment that prohormones aren't natural your dreaming.
Even the best prohormone isn't even 5% as strong as real steroids.They have short half life in the body, and aren't nearly as strong.I know companies claim they are as good as steroids, but they are full of shit.
Trust me I don't care how many pro-hormones you took, it would never equal the strength of steroids.
Unless they are "spiked" like some scum bags companies who put steroids in there products.
If a company puts steroids in a product and make people think its a prohormone, they should get a mandatory 10 years in jail.When a owner of a company "spikes "a product they are making a decision for a person.If people wants to take steroids, they will buy steroids.They wouldn't be buying prohormones, they would buy real juice........
Please explain the difference between a prohormone and a steroid.
Is dimethyltestosterone a prohormone or a steroid?
Is tetrahydrogestrinone a prohormone or a steroid?
Is methyl-dht a prohormone or a steroid?
The compounds just recently made scheduled anabolic steroids (like DMT), were they prohormones at one time but are now steroids?
To echo tim, why not say Anavar isn't a real steroid because it's not as strong as trenbolone?
Prohormone, as it's used when referring to these androgenic hormones, is a term invented by supplement companies, nothing more nothing less!
As far as prohormones go, if you think for one moment that prohormones aren't natural your dreaming.
Laughable. Which foods contain "prohormones"? If I were an Olympic athlete, which prohormones can I use without worrying about cheating? Since they are natural I assume none of your hormones would make me flunk a test in the Olympics, right?
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this show should be renamed Team Low Dosages
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Van, I know the answer to questions to all of the above.......But I wont waste my time educating a internet troll on hormones, and the difference between steroids and prohormones.You are just a guy who is probably 35 lives with his mother, and has really not life.
First you say that the picture of the fat guy with a goatee the cowboy hat was you, then you said it wasn't???????
I am guessing it was....Van, If you don't know the difference between a prohormones and a steroid, then your alot dumber then I thought you were.I bet you IQ, is about 60-72, tops.
Van unlikes you I post pics of what I look like and who I am, because unlike you I am reputable......Your just an internet troll with a big mouth.If we met in person you would have your tail between your legs like a scared dog, that was going to get a beating for shitting on the rug............
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Good luck John,train hard!!
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Van, I know the answer to questions to all of the above.......But I wont waste my time educating a internet troll on hormones, and the difference between steroids and prohormones.
Alright, why not educate Tim then. He isn't anonymous, has posted pics and probably has a high IQ.
Here's the question:
so therefore, it's the effectiveness of a drug that determines if it is natural? So Anavar is more natural than Anabol? And Androgel is more natural than Anavar
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ok, she was DQed, but neither that link nor the npcnewsonline website says why she was disqualified. It's unlikely that only one person out of over 200 would have failed the drug test.
Agreed, but they only test the top 2 in each class like I said.
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Alright, why not educate Tim then. He isn't anonymous, has posted pics and probably has a high IQ.
Let me reiterate:
Natural or drug free bodybuilding is not using any performance enhancing substance. The purpose of taking prohormones is as a performance enhancing substance. Large amounts of caffeine right before a workout is a performance enhancing substance.
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Van, Androgel, that is a presciption is not considered Natural, neither is Anavar.
I am going to make this short and to the point.A Hundai and a Ferrari are both cars, they both drive you were you want to go.The difference is how fast you will get there.Pro-Hormones, naturally raise testosterone, Steroids, are testosterone,.
I don't care what these companies say, unless they are "spiking " there prohormones with steroids, pro hormones aren't even 5% as effective as steroids.Just like the Hundai, and the Ferrari, comparison.Both are cars, but one is so much more powerful then the other.
Prohormones will raise testosterone for a short period of time, but steroids, take your testosterone to beyond levels that are normal.
The bottom line is this most Pro- Hormones are just DHEA, Tribulus, or Longfolia with a fancy name attached to it.
There are some strong Pro -hormones out there like 4chloro-17a-Methyl-Androst-1,4diene-3,17-diol,....... Estra-4 9-Diene -3 17 Dione,....... or 13-ethyl-3methoxy-gona-2 5(10)-diene-17-one, which are strong, but aren't nearly as effective as Testosterone or Trenbalone.
These prohormones will give you good Gaines, but like I said before they are limited.
Plus 80% of Americans PH is off, so half the time the capsule they are taking doesn't fully absorb in the body.
Americans have very poor PH and lack of Digestive enzymes, thats why they are fat and bloated, at 30 years old.
Tim your right, even large amounts of Caffiene and stimulants can enhance performance......But there is a diffrence between enhancing something, compared to taking it to unsurpassed levels.Steroids, take the body to unsurpassed levels.....Supplements just enhance performance.
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you are not natural, neither is "drugfreeforlife" rofl.. You use prohormones, no difference from regular hormones.
I'm not huh? Care to expand on that MAxx? Seriously....tell me. I am allll ears. The LAST time I ever used a prohormone was back in the 90's.....1st time was a bottle of Androstendione from AST.....second (and last one) was about 97' and it was Ultimate Nutrition's Nor-19. So...if you really think that will have the SLIGHTEST bit of carry over for me in 2005 when I won my pro card.....and then 2006 when I competed in my first pro show, then in 2008 when I did my second one.....you are a bigger retard than I think you are already.
Oh...in addition, when I got stuff from John he made ABSOLUTELY sure nothing he was sending me was banned by the WNBF/INBF. So, he is very conscious about anyone using his products and what organization they compete in.
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I'm not huh? Care to expand on that MAxx? Seriously....tell me. I am allll ears. The LAST time I ever used a prohormone was back in the 90's.....1st time was a bottle of Androstendione from AST.....second (and last one) was about 97' and it was Ultimate Nutrition's Nor-19. So...if you really think that will have the SLIGHTEST bit of carry over for me in 2005 when I won my pro card.....and then 2006 when I competed in my first pro show, then in 2008 when I did my second one.....you are a bigger retard than I think you are already.
Oh...in addition, when I got stuff from John he made ABSOLUTELY sure nothing he was sending me was banned by the WNBF/INBF. So, he is very conscious about anyone using his products and what organization they compete in.
you have used pro hormones ..thus you are not a natural athlete and never will be. end of story. so its hypocritcal to be using a nickname such as drugfree4life, which you arent.
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Tim your right, even large amounts of Caffiene and stimulants can enhance performance......But there is a diffrence between enhancing something, compared to taking it to unsurpassed levels.Steroids, take the body to unsurpassed levels.....Supplements just enhance performance.
I, and all the international anti-doping agencies, disagree.
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nolotil,,,,,, I mean tool.....First of all Androstene is not a steroid.If you look at the molecular structure its closer to DHEA then its is to testosterone.So people who take DHEA druggies to????
Plus oral Androstene, actually shut down more guys then it helped.I was one of them.I took, 50 mg, it made me weaker, then I went to 100mg, and even 200mg, and all it did was shut me down.
Its was the Original Androstene in the white bottle.
Now in the 1970's they did use injectable Androstene, and a nasal spray Androstene, which I would question those being considered natural.Even though Androstene will never ever be as strong as testosterone.
To call a person who did Andostene a drug user is like calling a person who only drinks a glass of wine for dinner for health reason an alcoholic.Its stupid, and uncalled for.
Androstene at best is not even 5% as strong a testosterone, trust this I know
Androstene was over rated, and should have never been banned.
Believe it or not, I think Dhea, is just as effective in my opinion.
Plus, I hate to pop your bubble, but 80-90% of the Androstene products out there were DHEA, being called Androstene.The reason for this is, Andostene was expensive, and hard to get.
I found this out because I was wondering how some companies were sellling there Androstene cheaper to stores then I could make the product.How could this happen???
It wasn't Andostene, it was DHEA.......Why do you think there is now a GMP manufacturing facilities now popping up? Because people are tired of buy Androstene and getting DHEA, They are tired of buying Creatine Ethyl Ester, and just getting Creatine monohydrate.So now companies like myself, make our products in GMP approved plants so we can make sure the customer gets what they pay for.
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So people who take DHEA druggies to????
they're not druggies. that implies someone who has a drug problem. a person who takes DHEA is simply a drug user. And if they belong to an organization that follows the World Anti-Doping regulations, they are in violation of their orgs rules.
To call a person who did Andostene a drug user is like calling a person who only drinks a glass of wine for dinner for health reason an alcoholic.
again, an alcoholic is someone who has an alcohol problem. a person who drinks a glass of wine is simply an alcohol user.
a bodybuilder who has used prohormones, even DHEA, is simply not a drug free bodybuilder.
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nolotil,,,,,, I mean tool.....First of all Androstene is not a steroid.If you look at the molecular structure its closer to DHEA then its is to testosterone.So people who take DHEA druggies to????
Plus oral Androstene, actually shut down more guys then it helped.I was one of them.I took, 50 mg, it made me weaker, then I went to 100mg, and even 200mg, and all it did was shut me down.
Its was the Original Androstene in the white bottle.
Now in the 1970's they did use injectable Androstene, and a nasal spray Androstene, which I would question those being considered natural.Even though Androstene will never ever be as strong as testosterone.
To call a person who did Andostene a drug user is like calling a person who only drinks a glass of wine for dinner for health reason an alcoholic.Its stupid, and uncalled for.
Androstene at best is not even 5% as strong a testosterone, trust this I know
Androstene was over rated, and should have never been banned.
Believe it or not, I think Dhea, is just as effective in my opinion.
Plus, I hate to pop your bubble, but 80-90% of the Androstene products out there were DHEA, being called Androstene.The reason for this is, Andostene was expensive, and hard to get.
I found this out because I was wondering how some companies were sellling there Androstene cheaper to stores then I could make the product.How could this happen???
It wasn't Andostene, it was DHEA.......Why do you think there is now a GMP manufacturing facilities now popping up? Because people are tired of buy Androstene and getting DHEA, They are tired of buying Creatine Ethyl Ester, and just getting Creatine monohydrate.So now companies like myself, make our products in GMP approved plants so we can make sure the customer gets what they pay for.
I disagree with you , Nolotil is right , prohormones give the person the "power" to alter there hormone profile and in the case we used them for in BB - performence enhancement just like drugs.
Sure those earlier ones may have not been as strong as the current day ones or like 1ad or 1test but we also have weak steroids that dont work as well for PE but if someone takes them does this in your eyes mean they havent taken steroids?
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you have used pro hormones ..thus you are not a natural athlete and never will be. end of story. so its hypocritcal to be using a nickname such as drugfree4life, which you arent.
Exactly!
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that depends, i did one cycle but i still consider myself natural since i lost all 30 pounds of it.
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Team Universe competitors are about as Natural as an American Gladiator circa 91.
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Van, Androgel, that is a presciption is not considered Natural, neither is Anavar.
I am going to make this short and to the point.A Hundai and a Ferrari are both cars, they both drive you were you want to go.The difference is how fast you will get there.Pro-Hormones, naturally raise testosterone, Steroids, are testosterone,.
I don't care what these companies say, unless they are "spiking " there prohormones with steroids, pro hormones aren't even 5% as effective as steroids.Just like the Hundai, and the Ferrari, comparison.Both are cars, but one is so much more powerful then the other.
Prohormones will raise testosterone for a short period of time, but steroids, take your testosterone to beyond levels that are normal.
The bottom line is this most Pro- Hormones are just DHEA, Tribulus, or Longfolia with a fancy name attached to it.
There are some strong Pro -hormones out there like 4chloro-17a-Methyl-Androst-1,4diene-3,17-diol,....... Estra-4 9-Diene -3 17 Dione,....... or 13-ethyl-3methoxy-gona-2 5(10)-diene-17-one, which are strong, but aren't nearly as effective as Testosterone or Trenbalone.
These prohormones will give you good Gaines, but like I said before they are limited.
Plus 80% of Americans PH is off, so half the time the capsule they are taking doesn't fully absorb in the body.
Americans have very poor PH and lack of Digestive enzymes, thats why they are fat and bloated, at 30 years old.
Tim your right, even large amounts of Caffiene and stimulants can enhance performance......But there is a diffrence between enhancing something, compared to taking it to unsurpassed levels.Steroids, take the body to unsurpassed levels.....Supplements just enhance performance.
nolotil,,,,,, I mean tool.....First of all Androstene is not a steroid.If you look at the molecular structure its closer to DHEA then its is to testosterone.So people who take DHEA druggies to????
Plus oral Androstene, actually shut down more guys then it helped.I was one of them.I took, 50 mg, it made me weaker, then I went to 100mg, and even 200mg, and all it did was shut me down.
Its was the Original Androstene in the white bottle.
Now in the 1970's they did use injectable Androstene, and a nasal spray Androstene, which I would question those being considered natural.Even though Androstene will never ever be as strong as testosterone.
To call a person who did Andostene a drug user is like calling a person who only drinks a glass of wine for dinner for health reason an alcoholic.Its stupid, and uncalled for.
Androstene at best is not even 5% as strong a testosterone, trust this I know
Androstene was over rated, and should have never been banned.
Believe it or not, I think Dhea, is just as effective in my opinion.
Plus, I hate to pop your bubble, but 80-90% of the Androstene products out there were DHEA, being called Androstene.The reason for this is, Andostene was expensive, and hard to get.
I found this out because I was wondering how some companies were sellling there Androstene cheaper to stores then I could make the product.How could this happen???
It wasn't Andostene, it was DHEA.......Why do you think there is now a GMP manufacturing facilities now popping up? Because people are tired of buy Androstene and getting DHEA, They are tired of buying Creatine Ethyl Ester, and just getting Creatine monohydrate.So now companies like myself, make our products in GMP approved plants so we can make sure the customer gets what they pay for.
Could you lend me some IQ points cause none of this makes sense to me. ??? :D
Would you say Proviron isn't an anabolic steroid since it never put muscle on anyone? Since it's so weak maybe it should be called a prohormone?
Halotestin doesn't make you gain much muscle. Natural?
Care to explain how route of administration changes a hormone from being natural to unnatural? Androstenedione nasal spray was used in the DDR like you mention.
How strong should a hormone be until it's called a steroid? How much should it make you gain? 1lb? 5lbs? 15lbs?
How come androstenedione is banned by most natural bodybuilding organizations? Such as WNBF and INBF where drugfree4life competes. I mean a renowned expert such as yourself says it's completely natural. What gives? ??? These morons even ban DHEA... wtf, you should call them up and tell them these hormones are completely natural! Because they're too weak to be called steroid hormones!
you have used pro hormones ..thus you are not a natural athlete and never will be. end of story. so its hypocritcal to be using a nickname such as drugfree4life, which you arent.
Even the orgs where he competes would take issue with his username. He admits to having used drugs which are now on their banned list.
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Exactly!
you have used pro hormones ..thus you are not a natural athlete and never will be. end of story. so its hypocritcal to be using a nickname such as drugfree4life, which you arent.
I guess even if I hadnt used those, because I had to use vicodin after having my wisdom teeth out, valium prior to my lasik surgery, flexeril after an auto accident, and even the prescription motrin after my pec tear....I couldnt be considered drugfree. Oh, and if you ever used those things....as well as advil, excedrine, tylenol, etc...you wouldnt be drug free either. Those are over the counter drugs.
To call a person who did Andostene a drug user is like calling a person who only drinks a glass of wine for dinner for health reason an alcoholic.
Exactly
they're not druggies. that implies someone who has a drug problem. a person who takes DHEA is simply a drug user. And if they belong to an organization that follows the World Anti-Doping regulations, they are in violation of their orgs rules.
again, an alcoholic is someone who has an alcohol problem. a person who drinks a glass of wine is simply an alcohol user.
a bodybuilder who has used prohormones, even DHEA, is simply not a drug free bodybuilder.
So whats the ACCEPTED definition of a druggie? In addition, a person who has used creatine is not natural. You are adding an exogenous substance to the body to elicit an effect above what happens already in the body. That is sooooo nit-picking its not even funny.
Even the orgs where he competes would take issue with his username. He admits to having used drugs which are now on their banned list.
Actually no. When I asked if certain things were banned or not, he was sent it from my Drugfree email addy. Even when I talked to him at a pro show I used the name as a reference to an earlier communication between he and I. Again, he didnt scream "Get out of my show you filthy drug using scum". ::)
I lifted for 12 - 13 years PRIOR to my Andro usage in 97. Then the bottle was what..30 capsules? It didnt do SHIT. LIfted another year or so until my Nor-19 usage (again, 30 capsules) in '98. Total waste of money and whatever else on both of those things. All it got me was realizing what I could have spent the money on and me having to remember when I took them so every time I get get drugtested at a show I have to tell them about it. I havent touched a pro-hormone since, nor will I. I even stopped the ephedrine usage PRIOR to the ban by WNBF or INBF due to my own personal resons. I guess by your accounts, the fact I used ephedrine back then...PRIOR to being banned I am not natural/drug free/etc.
Think what you will. I have 24+ yrs of lifting behind me. If 60 total capsules (amounting to 3 - 4 weeks TOTAL) is going to skew what I have done. So be it. Notoli, MAXX, Saxon....I wont go the route of asking if you have done shows or how far you have gotten. It doesnt matter. I am proud of what I have done. I dont hide or deny those two bottle. Never have. But the fact is that I did 3 - 4 shows prior to them (won my weight class in all but one), then I turned pro without them...and will continue to compete without them.
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That is sooooo nit-picking its not even funny.
simply change your name to DrugFree4Now, or CurrentlyDrugFree, or DrugFreeSince1997 and all will be happy with the world
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Van, that was one of your better posts....But you said Halotest does give you that many Gaines are your crazy????? Have you ever used Halotest???? Halotest, like Anadrol 50 will make you as strong as a bull, and mean as a caged animal.Trust me on Halotest 2 weeks out from the Mr USA, I was benching 405 lbs for 15 reps when I was on Halo.To make matters worse it made me meaner then a drunken Irishman, lol.
A Asshole almost ran my son and I over in the crosswalk, then flipped me off...needless to say, I had him by his throat getting ready to drag him out of his car to apologise...
Now Proviron may be mild, but its still alot more effective then Androstene.
The bottom line was Androstene was overrated, and 90% of it wasn't even real.If you guys prohormones aren't considered natural then you shouldn't consider Kre-alklayn natural either, Because I gained more weight then that then I ever did from Andro stene or any prohormone.
I cant believe we are even arguing over this.With Pro Hormones your Lucky to gain 5-10 max if your lucky, anabolics you gain 20-30 lbs no problem.This I know, IF I was to hop on a cycle right now my weight would jump to 280lbs, maybe even 290lbs.With prohormones I might get up to 255lbs
Prohormones, natural, steroids, not natural!!!!
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Why we don't ban Regine as well?????????????? Because everytime I use it I gain 5lbs.lol
True story my friend was balding and he doesn't work out or anything, he is just a husky guy.Well be bought Rogaine to help him regain his hair, and within 2 weeks he put on 15lbs of body weight.He was like WTF.......I told him to stop using the Rogaine and see what happens.....Within 5-6 days of not using Rogaine he lost 12 of the 15lbs he gained.
Rogaine is known to cause weight and sold over the counter, so should that be banned to.
We will not call it Rogaine drol, lol...
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you are one of the biggest liar and bullshitters to ever join this site getit on
you use used and will use hormones steroids and prohormones and such cause withouthem you'd be a big nothing
now you have the audacity to come here and say you gonna do a show clean ...get the fuck out of here you liar supplement seller
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simply change your name to DrugFree4Now, or CurrentlyDrugFree, or DrugFreeSince1997 and all will be happy with the world
Yes, because my life is based on what TimFogarty thinks of me. ::)
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Yes, because my life is based on what TimFogarty thinks of me. ::)
you are another bullshitter cum drug free
go get a job selling for getitonnewjersey
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Yes, because my life is based on what TimFogarty thinks of me. ::)
I'm a life time drug free bodybuilder.
No, you've used these drugs for performance enhancing purposes.
Those don't count.
Yes they do.
Stop picking on me.
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Stop picking on me.
Ok, I will.....will you stop crying if I do?
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you are another bullshitter cum drug free
go get a job selling for getitonnewjersey
Wow...issues. Bullshitter cum drug free? Rolls off the tongue like your boyfriends cock last night.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=302202.0;attach=343918;image)
Fly far, far away Winged one....errr
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that depends, i did one cycle but i still consider myself natural since i lost all 30 pounds of it.
And therein lies the rub!! It appears all the griping about "natural" competitors stems around how long a former steroid user has to be off anabolics, before he's considered "natural".
On average, most federations require three years drug-free. The WNBF seems to be the strictest, with 7 years drug-free requirement. You can't even have used DHEA (nowadays, you can get that at Wal-Mart for under $5).
Rather than debate about it when folks ask me, I simply say that anything I use, other than food, can be purchased at either a grocery store or sports nutrition store legally in the USA.
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if you have used steroids you will get benefits even after you stopped using compared to someone who never used. thats why its a bit messed up that for example sprinters are allowed back after a 2 year suspension as they will still have an advantage even if they are now clean.
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if you have used steroids you will get benefits even after you stopped using compared to someone who never used. thats why its a bit messed up that for example sprinters are allowed back after a 2 year suspension as they will still have an advantage even if they are now clean.
So, tell me...just how much advantage do you think I got from those two bottles...8 - 9 years later?
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So, tell me...just how much advantage do you think I got from those two bottles...8 - 9 years later?
no idea, but still your nickname is misleading as your not drugfree4life. i dont say this to piss on the hard work you surely have put in. but per definition your simply not natural nor drugfree4life. clean, yes.
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Andro gave me erect nipples
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Curt,Is Drugfree for life, and on top of it he is a Dr......
Anybody who thinks that taking Androstene or DHEA makes you not natural is a fool.
If it is sold over the counter, and isn't banned, it should be considered natural..
Androstene if and thats a big "IF" because 80-90% of the Androstene out there was either DHEA or just Rice flour in a capsule.The reason for this is because 1) it was very very expensive per kilo to buy 2) There was a very strong patent on Androstene.
So either you couldn't get it, or they just wouldn't sell it to you.
When Androstene first came out there was only 2 companies making it, and it remained that way for about a year.The First brand was the White bottle, we all know made that and the other company was ASN out of Hood River, Oregon.The owner Jim Cole, was one of the people who helped Phil Hernon gets so huge and ripped.
Anyways......Androsten, if it was real doesn't have a long half life in the body.In some cases ,it actually shut alot of guys down, including myself.It actually hindered my testosterone production and made me weaker, and tired.So Androsten was a hit or miss.
Nobody has ever gained more then 5-7 lbs on Androstene, if they said they did they are a liar or the product they were using was "spiked".
Androstene was so overrated,!! To be hone3st with you the Original Phosphagen Creatine when it was made in America, was More effective then Androstene was.
American Creatine worked like nothing else.Because it was manufactured properly
Kre-Alklayn I feel is the new form of Phosphagen only better, because the PH is corrected.
Chinese creatine monohydrate is garbage.It contains lead and arsenic, and it isn't dried for 2-3 hours like the American creatine used to be.They dry it fast at higher temperatures, to mass produce it.This inturn takes away from its potency.Creatine is only made up of 2 amino acids, so to much heat, and it will damage the potency of these delicate amino acids.
Plus the Chinese spray 10-15% moisture into the product they made to add weight to the product.So your buying moisture not product.But what do you expect for $4.50 per kilo.
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.If you guys think for 1 second that Andostene or any other over the counter hormone is even 5% as effective as real steroids your a fool.
What are you guys going to say next???? Drugfree4life isnt natural because he eats red meat and chicken that injected with hormones, so he is a druggie for eating meat, lol."
The bible says "Dont point a speck of dust in your neighbors eye when you have a plank in your own"
You guys might want to read that pasage.People who live in glass houses, shouldnt throw rocks, lol
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Adam Ant had a song goodie two shoes in the 1980's, One verse was dont drink dont smoke,what do you do? .
This guy should have a song called "does drink does smoke, and takes it in the butt, lol"
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Curt,Is Drugfree for life, and on top of it he is a Dr......
Anybody who thinks that taking Androstene or DHEA makes you not natural is a fool.
If it is sold over the counter, and isn't banned, it should be considered natural..
Androstene if and thats a big "IF" because 80-90% of the Androstene out there was either DHEA or just Rice flour in a capsule.The reason for this is because 1) it was very very expensive per kilo to buy 2) There was a very strong patent on Androstene.
So either you couldn't get it, or they just wouldn't sell it to you.
When Androstene first came out there was only 2 companies making it, and it remained that way for about a year.The First brand was the White bottle, we all know made that and the other company was ASN out of Hood River, Oregon.The owner Jim Cole, was one of the people who helped Phil Hernon gets so huge and ripped.
Anyways......Androsten, if it was real doesn't have a long half life in the body.In some cases ,it actually shut alot of guys down, including myself.It actually hindered my testosterone production and made me weaker, and tired.So Androsten was a hit or miss.
Nobody has ever gained more then 5-7 lbs on Androstene, if they said they did they are a liar or the product they were using was "spiked".
Androstene was so overrated,!! To be hone3st with you the Original Phosphagen Creatine when it was made in America, was More effective then Androstene was.
American Creatine worked like nothing else.Because it was manufactured properly
Kre-Alklayn I feel is the new form of Phosphagen only better, because the PH is corrected.
Chinese creatine monohydrate is garbage.It contains lead and arsenic, and it isn't dried for 2-3 hours like the American creatine used to be.They dry it fast at higher temperatures, to mass produce it.This inturn takes away from its potency.Creatine is only made up of 2 amino acids, so to much heat, and it will damage the potency of these delicate amino acids.
Plus the Chinese spray 10-15% moisture into the product they made to add weight to the product.So your buying moisture not product.But what do you expect for $4.50 per kilo.
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.If you guys think for 1 second that Andostene or any other over the counter hormone is even 5% as effective your a fool.
Seriously John, I wouldnt worry about it anymore.
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Tim Fogarty is the authority on these matters
I don't get why people argue with him...
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Tim Fogarty is the authority on these matters
I don't get why people argue with him...
Because we can.
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Curt,Is Drugfree for life, and on top of it he is a Dr......
Anybody who thinks that taking Androstene or DHEA makes you not natural is a fool.
If it is sold over the counter, and isn't banned, it should be considered natural..
Androstene if and thats a big "IF" because 80-90% of the Androstene out there was either DHEA or just Rice flour in a capsule.The reason for this is because 1) it was very very expensive per kilo to buy 2) There was a very strong patent on Androstene.
So either you couldn't get it, or they just wouldn't sell it to you.
When Androstene first came out there was only 2 companies making it, and it remained that way for about a year.The First brand was the White bottle, we all know made that and the other company was ASN out of Hood River, Oregon.The owner Jim Cole, was one of the people who helped Phil Hernon gets so huge and ripped.
Anyways......Androsten, if it was real doesn't have a long half life in the body.In some cases ,it actually shut alot of guys down, including myself.It actually hindered my testosterone production and made me weaker, and tired.So Androsten was a hit or miss.
Nobody has ever gained more then 5-7 lbs on Androstene, if they said they did they are a liar or the product they were using was "spiked".
Androstene was so overrated,!! To be hone3st with you the Original Phosphagen Creatine when it was made in America, was More effective then Androstene was.
American Creatine worked like nothing else.Because it was manufactured properly
Kre-Alklayn I feel is the new form of Phosphagen only better, because the PH is corrected.
Chinese creatine monohydrate is garbage.It contains lead and arsenic, and it isn't dried for 2-3 hours like the American creatine used to be.They dry it fast at higher temperatures, to mass produce it.This inturn takes away from its potency.Creatine is only made up of 2 amino acids, so to much heat, and it will damage the potency of these delicate amino acids.
Plus the Chinese spray 10-15% moisture into the product they made to add weight to the product.So your buying moisture not product.But what do you expect for $4.50 per kilo.
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.If you guys think for 1 second that Andostene or any other over the counter hormone is even 5% as effective as real steroids your a fool.
What are you guys going to say next???? Drugfree4life isnt natural because he eats red meat and chicken that injected with hormones, so he is a druggie for eating meat, lol."
The bible says "Dont point a speck of dust in your neighbors eye when you have a plank in your own"
You guys might want to read that pasage.People who live in glass houses, shouldnt throw rocks, lol
Cliff notes please
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The term "natural" seems to be more of an objective term than anything else. Drugfreeforlife seems to adhere to the more strict sense of what natural means where you also have Flex Wheeler claiming he is a natural freak. If you believe you are natural that is all that matters. Anyone else who says your not is jealous and they normally don't look as good.
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The term "natural" seems to be more of an objective term than anything else. Drugfreeforlife seems to adhere to the more strict sense of what natural means where you also have Flex Wheeler claiming he is a natural freak. If you believe you are natural that is all that matters. Anyone else who says your not is jealous and they normally don't look as good.
Exactly....I am sure there are those that take it so far to the extreme that protein powder consumption isnt natural. Heres a question.....should a competitor who is say 50+ yrs old...on HRT from his doctor be allowed to compete in the WNBF?
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Curt,Is Drugfree for life, and on top of it he is a Dr......
Anybody who thinks that taking Androstene or DHEA makes you not natural is a fool.
If it is sold over the counter, and isn't banned, it should be considered natural..
Androstene if and thats a big "IF" because 80-90% of the Androstene out there was either DHEA or just Rice flour in a capsule.The reason for this is because 1) it was very very expensive per kilo to buy 2) There was a very strong patent on Androstene.
So either you couldn't get it, or they just wouldn't sell it to you.
When Androstene first came out there was only 2 companies making it, and it remained that way for about a year.The First brand was the White bottle, we all know made that and the other company was ASN out of Hood River, Oregon.The owner Jim Cole, was one of the people who helped Phil Hernon gets so huge and ripped.
Anyways......Androsten, if it was real doesn't have a long half life in the body.In some cases ,it actually shut alot of guys down, including myself.It actually hindered my testosterone production and made me weaker, and tired.So Androsten was a hit or miss.
Nobody has ever gained more then 5-7 lbs on Androstene, if they said they did they are a liar or the product they were using was "spiked".
Androstene was so overrated,!! To be hone3st with you the Original Phosphagen Creatine when it was made in America, was More effective then Androstene was.
American Creatine worked like nothing else.Because it was manufactured properly
Kre-Alklayn I feel is the new form of Phosphagen only better, because the PH is corrected.
Chinese creatine monohydrate is garbage.It contains lead and arsenic, and it isn't dried for 2-3 hours like the American creatine used to be.They dry it fast at higher temperatures, to mass produce it.This inturn takes away from its potency.Creatine is only made up of 2 amino acids, so to much heat, and it will damage the potency of these delicate amino acids.
Plus the Chinese spray 10-15% moisture into the product they made to add weight to the product.So your buying moisture not product.But what do you expect for $4.50 per kilo.
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.If you guys think for 1 second that Andostene or any other over the counter hormone is even 5% as effective as real steroids your a fool.
What are you guys going to say next???? Drugfree4life isnt natural because he eats red meat and chicken that injected with hormones, so he is a druggie for eating meat, lol."
The bible says "Dont point a speck of dust in your neighbors eye when you have a plank in your own"
You guys might want to read that pasage.People who live in glass houses, shouldnt throw rocks, lol
I'm sorry but you are a fucking retard. You can't even define what a "real" steroid hormone is. And you brag about your high IQ? ::) ;D
Natural is what is sold legally over the counter? It can't be a "real" steroid if its' sold over the counter. What a joke. DHEA is a fucking steroid hormone whether you think so or not. As long as it's sold over the counter any synthetic man made steroid hormone is completely natural. ::)
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.
It's not so plain and simple. Considered natural by who? Not according to the orgs drugfree4life competes in. Who agrees with your definition? Who? Give me an example of a sporting org which claims it's a natural and drug free org and allows anything which is legal. The bottom line is that pretty much NO ONE agrees with your definition of natural.
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Exactly....I am sure there are those that take it so far to the extreme that protein powder consumption isnt natural. Heres a question.....should a competitor who is say 50+ yrs old...on HRT from his doctor be allowed to compete in the WNBF?
I think the whole term "natural bodybuilding" is a joke. But since you carry the banner of "drug free for life" so proudly yet think synthetic man made hormones are completely natural and not drugs, as long as they're legal and not very effective, it makes me wonder why you even compete in so called natural shows. Actually I know why, you're not good enough to compete with the honest guys who don't bother with all this natural crap.
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Curt this argument is really stupid,,,I cant believe that people are even questioning Androstene, and DHEA when there are scum bags like Delino Dixon who won the MuscleMania World then lost his job because he failed a preemployment drug test.True story.I knew Delino Dixon for many many years.He was a 180-190lbs naturally lean muscular black guy.Then he disappears for a few years, and comes back weighing an amazing 230 lbs on stage.His arms were 21" and his traps were friggin huge.He swears up and down he is natural, but I know he wasn't, I knew people who sold him stuff.
How he lost his job.He worked at Bally's casino as a 21 dealer, and when the Paris Hotel opened next door he wanted to transfer, because it was better money.Now I know for a fact that Bally and the Paris, test for steroids, because my friend who was a Craps dealer was going to do the same thing, but he was on a cycle at the time, and didn't want to risk his job by coming up dirty on the drug test.Well Delino being Mr so called Mr Natural , did fail his preemployment drug test, for having anabolics in his body.I know someone in human resources, who showed my the pink slip.
So how embarrassing is that????? Whats even more pathetic, was I competed in that show, and got 4th in the pro division.I missed my peak because Lou Zwick, the scum bag, changed the prejudging date from Friday to Saturday, but only told his "key' athletes.He didn't sell as many tickets as he thought, so he changed the prejudging date.I didn't find out until I got there, at the weigh ins.
So I already carb loaded, cut my water, and was ready to step on stage Friday.To this day, I am still upset.
I would say about 60% of the athletes looked off, but all Lou Zwicks favorites like Tito Raymond and Delino Dixon looked great because he called to tell them he changed the prejudging day.You cant change the prejudging day, and not tell people the day of prejudging, especially if they are natural.Its not like we can take a diuretic.I was so pissed, my body released cortisol and I was way off......
But who could blame me??????????
Anyways, after I found out Delino lost his job, because he failed the drug test 2 weeks after the show, I decided to call Lou Zwick and tell him.I think if someone fails a drug test, they should have there title pulled from them.I am not a narc, but the guy failed a drug test for godsake!!!!!!All Lou Zwick said, was I will look into it....Nothing ever happened....
The funny thing is Musclemania randomly drug tests there athletes right?????? They only tested the urine of 2 guys a novice lightweight, and a novice Bantamweight.Not one open guy got tested!!!!!
I cant believe we are arguing about Androstene, when there are so many athletes like Delino Dixon using fuc%$# gear and entering natural shows.To me there is nothing worse then a scum bag who goes into natural shows full of drugs!!!!
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Exactly....I am sure there are those that take it so far to the extreme that protein powder consumption isnt natural. Heres a question.....should a competitor who is say 50+ yrs old...on HRT from his doctor be allowed to compete in the WNBF?
you still dont get it? your not natural and what the guy above wrote (lvrolft) is absolute rubbish. im not jealous at all.
you took hormones thus you arent natural. not only that you have a nickname that is hypocritical. but i already wrote this, but you wont listen so i have nothing further to say. you and getionny are just talking alot of rubbish. i dont believe a word that getionny writes. im out. there is nothing more to discuss.
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John, are you saying this Wiki entry of DHEA is wrong?
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is an endogenous[1] steroid that has been implicated in a broad range of biological effects in humans and other mammals. Together with its sulfate ester (DHEA-S), it is the most abundant steroid in humans.[citation needed] DHEA is produced by adrenal glands, but also synthesized de novo in the brain.[citation needed] It acts on the androgen receptor both directly and through its metabolites, which include androstenediol and androstenedione, which can undergo further conversion to produce the androgen testosterone and the estrogens estrone and estradiol.[2] DHEA is also a potent sigma-1 agonist.[3] It is considered a neurosteroid.[2]
How the fuck does it act on the steroid receptors directly? It's not a steroid according to noted biochemist John DiLauro!
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Van, your post is so idiotic, I wont even reply.Van your a waste of space, my IQ is 4 times yours.....I forgot more about bodybuilding then you will ever know !!!
Your just a internet troll who hides behind his mother computer, and cut and paste Patrick Arnold's Info to make yourself seem smart.
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I think the whole term "natural bodybuilding" is a joke. But since you carry the banner of "drug free for life" so proudly yet think synthetic man made hormones are completely natural and not drugs, as long as they're legal and not very effective, it makes me wonder why you even compete in so called natural shows. Actually I know why, you're not good enough to compete with the honest guys who don't bother with all this natural crap.
And you are good enough to compete with the "honest" guys who dont bother with all this natural crap? I would bet any money you wouldnt find 10 guys who did nationals this year who would admit to even 50% of what shit they are taking. And you call them "honest". Will you be honest and tell everyone what you take?
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Van, your post is so idiotic, I wont even reply.Van your a waste of space, my IQ is 4 times yours.....I forgot more about bodybuilding then you will ever know !!!
Your just a internet troll who hides behind his mother computer, and cut and paste Patrick Arnold's Info to make yourself seem smart.
You won't reply because you can't reply. You pretend like you're some type of biochemistry expert while it's painfully obvious to anyone reading you know next to nothing about the subject at hand.
You're so smart no one else in the world knows what you know, which is that DHEA isn't a steroid hormone. A steroid hormone is something that will take John's body weight to 280lbs. That should be the dictionary definition of a steroid hormone.
The current definition is wrong:
Steroid hormones are steroids that act as hormones. Steroid hormones can be grouped into five groups by the receptors to which they bind: glucocorticoids, mineralocorticoids, androgens, estrogens, and progestagens. Vitamin D derivatives are a sixth closely-related hormone system with homologous receptors, though technically sterols rather than steroids.
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you still dont get it? your not natural and what the guy above wrote (lvrolft) is absolute rubbish. im not jealous at all.
you took hormones thus you arent natural. not only that you have a nickname that is hypocritical. but i already wrote this, but you wont listen so i have nothing further to say. you and getionny are just talking alot of rubbish. i dont believe a word that getionny writes. im out. there is nothing more to discuss.
Melt-fucking-down. Arent you the guy who is supposedly like 270lbs+ and eats like 3 meals a day when he "diets down"? Riiight
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Van, the more you post the dumber you appear.Yes DHEA is a hormone.So Van what your saying is if a guy takes 400MG of DHEA, he will get the same gaines he will on 400 mg of Testosterone.......No he wont.He might just go bald from the DHEA because it raises DHT levels, but thats about it.Van i what your saying is correct why doesnt every bodybuilder in the Mr Olympia just use DHEA, since its such a powerful Steroid, lol.I met some stupid people in my day, but Van you take the cake,lol
Van,,,,, your such a Jack ass......The Jack ass award goes to Vanbiledasshole, lol
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What are you guys going to say next???? Drugfree4life isnt natural because he eats red meat and chicken that injected with hormones, so he is a druggie for eating meat, lol."
The key here is intent. If you took a supplement because it may allow you to make gains over what you could make without it, then you're not a natural bodybuilder.
People who live in glass houses, shouldnt throw rocks, lol
It's perfectly ok to take performance enhancing drugs. It's hypocritical to do it and claim to be natural.
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Heres a question.....should a competitor who is say 50+ yrs old...on HRT from his doctor be allowed to compete in the WNBF?
No. It's against the rules as stated by the WNBF.
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If you take any substances which are on the banned list for the olympics then you are not natural.
End of discussion.
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Van, the more you post the dumber you appear.Yes DHEA is a hormone.So Van what your saying is if a guy takes 400MG of DHEA, he will get the same gaines he will on 400 mg of Testosterone.
it has nothing to do with the amount of gains you may or may not make. drug free bodybuilding is just that, free of all drugs. if you're going to market yourself that way, yet don't follow that rule, then don't be surprised when you're called a hypocrite or liar.
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So Van what your saying is if a guy takes 400MG of DHEA, he will get the same gaines he will on 400 mg of Testosterone.......
::)
That's what I'm saying? Really?
Is 400mg of Proviron as effective as 400mg of Test? No? Oh, I guess Proviron isn't a drug, is completely natural, is a prohormone and not an anabolic steroid.
A steroid is something that takes John's bodyweight to 280lbs. If it only adds 5-10lbs it isn't a steroid. Look it up, that's what the dictionary definition is of a steroid hormone.
You are such a retard. :D
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Listen....I started this thread, so I am going to finish this thread.I was a natural bodybuilder for 16 years.
Natural= Anything available over the counter, that is not" laced' or Spiked" with steroids!!!
I formulate supplements, and trust me, there is no supplement in the world, that is even 10% as good as real steroids.
So to say a person who takes supplements, is not natural is stupid !!!!!
Trust me, I know.The most I ever gained from a supplement is 5lbs.Should Rogaine be banned to????? I gained 5lbs from that!?????
My first cycle of Anabolics I gained 30 lbs.How can you compare gaining 5lbs from a supplement to gaining 30 lbs on anabolics????????
You cant!!!!!! If it isnt banned by the FDA, and is not illegal, its should be considered natural.Trust me even if you took 1000 mg of Androstene you wouldnt gain more then 5 lbs.
We should be more worried about guys entering natural shows on gear, then woryying about natural guys using a prohormone that might contain DHEA....oH WAIT Van thinks DHEA is as strong as testosterone,lol......
The bottom line is this supplements will NEVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH STERODS EVER !!!
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No. It's against the rules as stated by the WNBF.
Actually.....they can, and they have. Method101....we arent talking about the Olympics.
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Listen....I started this thread, so I am going to finish this thread.I was a natural bodybuilder for 16 years.
Natural= Anything available over the counter, that is not" laced' or Spiked" with steroids!!!
I formulate supplements, and trust me, there is no supplement in the world, that is even 10% as good as real steroids.
So to say a person who takes supplements, is not natural is stupid !!!!!
Trust me, I know.The most I ever gained from a supplement is 5lbs.Should Rogaine be banned to????? I gained 5lbs from that!?????
My first cycle of Anabolics I gained 30 lbs.How can you compare gaining 5lbs from a supplement to gaining 30 lbs on anabolics????????
You cant!!!!!! If it isnt banned by the FDA, and is not illegal, its should be considered natural.Trust me even if you took 1000 mg of Androstene you wouldnt gain more then 5 lbs.
We should be more worried about guys entering natural shows on gear, then woryying about natural guys using a prohormone that might contain DHEA....oH WAIT Van thinks DHEA is as strong as testosterone,lol......
The bottom line is this supplements will NEVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH STERODS EVER !!!
I think DHEA is as strong as Test? Can you fucking read?
Hey, I once took three 2mg Zambon Winstrol tabs a day and didn't gain jack shit. Was I natural?
When are you going to define what a steroid is? Oh wait, a steroid makes John's weight shoot up to 280lbs, that's the definition. Primo, Winny, Anavar, none of that shit is steroids. Steroids = trenbolone and test, that's it. Maybe Anadrol too.
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We should be more worried about guys entering natural shows on gear, then woryying about natural guys using a prohormone that might contain DHEA.
sports organizations should follow their own rules. what rules they set is up to them.
the issue here is individuals marketing themselves. if you claim to be life time drug free, then you better never have taken a drug with the intent of athletic performance enhancement.
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sports organizations should follow their own rules. what rules they set is up to them.
the issue here is individuals marketing themselves. if you claim to be life time drug free, then you better never have taken a drug with the intent of athletic performance enhancement.
So...by your definition, is someone who has never taken a prohormone but has used caffeine in their contest prep considered drug free?
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Tim, I respect your opinion, but Jesus was the only person who ever walked on water,lol.
As far as Natural bodybuilding goes, I think they should be able to use anything that is legal and not banned by the FDA.
Trust me, I don't care how many Androstene ,DHEA, Tribulus, or Longfolia you take, its not going to make much of a difference.
You guys are acting Like DHEA and Androstene are like steroids, lol.They both aren't even 5% as strong as a good steroid.
Curt your natural,because the Androstene you took wasn't even real anyways, most weren't.
I cant believe you guy are beating this already dead horse.....If you don't know the difference between a supplement and a steroid....Stop going to the gym, and go buy a gun and shoot yourself in the head, because your brain dead...
I don't care how cutting edge supplements get, they will never ever ever be even close to the real thing.
With the exception of Muscltech, I mean they are above and beyond all supplements!!! Especially there hardcore line....
It is actually what Jay used to win the Mr O title.
;On a serious note,Jay did use a certain persons Waxy Maze for his contest prep ;)
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John DiHomo benches 405 for 15 reps while on Halotestin. If John DiHomo benches 405 for 17 reps while on 1000mg of Test, he is natural while on Halo.
One thing he will not do is take the deadly Ultram because it is a silent killer. Nevermind the Halo...ULTRAM WILL DESTROY YOUR SOUL!!!!
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Temper there is always one bad apple out of the bunch.Calling me a homo, and making fun of me because I was trying to help people not get addicted to Ultram.Because Doctors
are writing prescriptions for a pain killer and telling people not to worry, its non habit forming and non addictive.Then it ruins there lives.
I come on this board to educate and inform people with intelligent knowledge.
You come on this board, and act like a 12 year old, and belittle people so you can feel better about yourself.Temper why you don't post a pic of yourself, so we can see what a pathetic, bitter loser looks like.I bet your probably not even 175lbs, and your 35 years old living with your mother.In her basement.You tell all your friends, the few you have, its my house, I am letting my mom stay with me, lol.Temper its so nice of you to let your mom live upstairs in your house, while you stay in the basement....Thats very generous of you.....lol
Temper your a typical internet loser who sometimes ruins boards, because people like me would never associate ourselves with you in real life.You also discourage people from wanting to post on the boards because they don't want to deal with the negative people such as your self....Temper god bless, you, I hope one day, you find happiness, so your wont be such a fool and lash out at others, to make yourself feel better
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I think DHEA is as strong as Test? Can you fucking read?
Hey, I once took three 2mg Zambon Winstrol tabs a day and didn't gain jack shit. Was I natural?
When are you going to define what a steroid is? Oh wait, a steroid makes John's weight shoot up to 280lbs, that's the definition. Primo, Winny, Anavar, none of that shit is steroids. Steroids = trenbolone and test, that's it. Maybe Anadrol too.
LMAO at this thread