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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on April 20, 2010, 11:37:33 AM
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FDA should regulate salt, panel says ["FDA putting measures together to do this"]
Reuters ^
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Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:45:39 AM by Sub-Driver
FDA should regulate salt, panel says Photo 9:18am EDT
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration should regulate the amount of salt that can be added to foods to help Americans eat less sodium, an influential federal panel said on Tuesday.
Because Americans get most of their sodium from processed and restaurant foods, it is not enough to simply tell them to eat less salt and regulation of the food industry is needed, the Institute of Medicine said.
The FDA is already putting together measures to do this, the Washington Post reported.
Too much salt can cause high blood pressure, which in turn causes strokes, heart disease and kidney failure.
"For 40 years we have known about the relationship between sodium and the development of hypertension and other life threatening diseases, but we have had virtually no success in cutting back the salt in our diets," Jane Henney of the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine in Ohio, who chaired the Institute of Medicine panel, said in a statement.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
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Maybe they should start regulating taste. I had a pretty crappy Mexican food meal this past weekend. ::)
FDA may force restaurants, food makers to cut salt content
Associated Press
WASHINGTON — The Food and Drug Administration says it will consider a new call today to force food makers to gradually cut the salt hidden inside their products — but don't expect less salty soups, pizzas or pastas any time soon.
Americans eat about 1 1/2 teaspoons of salt daily, more than double what they need for good health and high enough to increase risk of high blood pressure, strokes and other problems. Most of that sodium doesn't come from the table salt-shaker — it's hidden inside common processed foods and restaurant meals.
Major foods makers have started reducing sodium in recent years, but have argued that they don't have tasty ways to replace sodium for deep cuts — and they fear consumer backlash as the taste changes.
Today, the prestigious Institute of Medicine said the food industry hasn't done enough to voluntarily cut back. Echoing earlier calls from the American Medical Association and other health groups, the IOM urged the government to set maximum sodium levels for different foods in a stepped rollback — so that eventually, the average consumption would drop by about half a teaspoon.
A gradual reduction would let people adjust to the change in flavor.
"We don't believe this is a fast project by any means," said Dr. Jane E. Henney of the University of Cincinnati, a former FDA commissioner who headed the IOM's study. "We think it's important and imperative to get started, but we think this will probably take years to accomplish."
The FDA hasn't decided whether to regulate sodium levels, but "no options are off the table," said spokeswoman Meghan Scott.
"A lot would have to be done before any decision is made to regulate sodium levels," Scott said. But, "there is very little debate any longer over the impact sodium has."
The IOM is an independent agency chartered by Congress to advise the federal government, and is just the latest in a string of health groups to pressure the FDA in recent years to cut the salt.
The American Medical Association has said that if the salt in processed and restaurant food were cut in half over 10 years, that ultimately 150,000 lives a year could be saved.
One in three U.S. adults has high blood pressure, in turn a leading cause of heart attacks, strokes and kidney failure. And while being overweight and inactive raises blood pressure, too much salt is a big culprit as well.
Government guidelines set 2,300 milligrams of sodium as the maximum daily intake — the amount above which health problems can appear. But the IOM says people need just 1,500 mg a day, even less if they're over 50. Yet average consumption is more than 3,400 mg.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20100420/BREAKING/100420031/FDA+may+force+restaurants++food+makers+to+cut+salt+content
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This is all you need to know about libs.
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They all look like pillars of health.Guys like Dick Durbin,Patrick Kennedy,Feinstein,Lee,all super comnditioned people who obviously have their pulse on health and conditioning.
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I totally support these measures. Sodium content in our foods is out of control, especially in restaurants. I believe in full disclosure of what amounts they put into the food we eat and strict regulation on overuse of sodium, certain fats and other nasty concoctions that can shorten life.
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I totally support these measures. Sodium content in our foods is out of control, especially in restaurants. I believe in full disclosure of what amounts they put into the food we eat and strict regulation on overuse of sodium, certain fats and other nasty concoctions that can shorten life.
Please go kill your fucking self.
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I totally support these measures. Sodium content in our foods is out of control, especially in restaurants. I believe in full disclosure of what amounts they put into the food we eat and strict regulation on overuse of sodium, certain fats and other nasty concoctions that can shorten life.
We dont need the filthy government regulating what we eat,how much we eat,what we weigh.How about they just leave us the fuck alone.
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Please go kill your fucking self.
hahaha why exactly? Because i believe people have a right to know and understand what their food is doing to them? If you would rather we live in the dark ages i believe you are sadly out of touch. Reality is 333 the american people are misinformed and out of touch. For too long food companies have run roughshod over the people of this great country with lies and misinformation. It's akin to the tobacco companies the way they are exploiting or trying to the American people. If something if proven to be a health risk the government has a right to inform the people and regulate as it sees appropriate. That is a fundamental role of the government and one that can not and should not be unchanged. If you don't like it. Take one of those guns you so adore and eat it. :-*
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Maybe because I dont want the cocaine abusing obama in my home?
Take your nanny state and shove up your liberal ass along with TA and 240.
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We dont need the filthy government regulating what we eat,how much we eat,what we weigh.How about they just leave us the fuck alone.
Here is the thing Billy. The American people DO need help with dietary choices, i'm not advocating that they tell you exactly where and what you can eat, i advocate for full disclosure of what is in the food and full investigation into the effects any and all additives have on the human body. That way we can finally know what is and isn't healthy.
The same complaint can be made for the government banning steroids. They did it without information and without a full investigation into the effects it has long term. Because of that we have all these half truths from anti-steroid morons instead of truth.
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hahaha why exactly? Because i believe people have a right to know and understand what their food is doing to them? If you would rather we live in the dark ages i believe you are sadly out of touch. Reality is 333 the american people are misinformed and out of touch. For too long food companies have run roughshod over the people of this great country with lies and misinformation. It's akin to the tobacco companies the way they are exploiting or trying to the American people. If something if proven to be a health risk the government has a right to inform the people and regulate as it sees appropriate. That is a fundamental role of the government and one that can not and should not be unchanged. If you don't like it. Take one of those guns you so adore and eat it. :-*
This is unfortunate.The idea that people didnt know that breathing fire into their lungs wouldnt hurt their health is insane.The idea that people are unaware that eating a Big Mac isnt healthy is a joke.
Now,we keep hearing about the health risks of obesity and they use that idiotic BMI chart to show who is obese.We hear of the dangers of salt but life spans HAVE INCREASED not decreased.This is yet another ploy of the government to control every aspect of our lives.It has NOTHING to do with health at all.
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Maybe because I dont want the cocaine abusing obama in my home?
Take your nanny state and shove up your liberal ass along with TA and 240.
nanny state? ha! It's called government tool it acts to serve the peoples best interest and funnily enough the health of it's citizens i.e. life is one of those. So why don't you go down to the corner you so often frequent and get your sh*t pushed in by your other right wing buddies and keep hating yourself for it.
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nanny state? ha! It's called government tool it acts to serve the peoples best interest and funnily enough the health of it's citizens i.e. life is one of those. So why don't you go down to the corner you so often frequent and get your sh*t pushed in by your other right wing buddies and keep hating yourself for it.
FU slave! I'll make my own decisions without having that communist asshole and his chewbacca wife in my fridge.
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This is unfortunate.The idea that people didnt know that breathing fire into their lungs wouldnt hurt their health is insane.The idea that people are unaware that eating a Big Mac isnt healthy is a joke.
Now,we keep hearing about the health risks of obesity and they use that idiotic BMI chart to show who is obese.We hear of the dangers of salt but life spans HAVE INCREASED not decreased.This is yet another ploy of the government to control every aspect of our lives.It has NOTHING to do with health at all.
You and i know that Billy but that doesn't stop Mcdonalds advertising with athletes, doesn't stop the corn lobby from claiming high fructose corn syrup is the same as sugar cane, all that does it implicitly tell people that 'hey it's okay to eat a big mac michael jordan did' or 'HFCS? that's just sugar lets eat it' without understanding and knowing the real facts behind those foods and what they can do to you.
BMI is stupid i agree. But obesity is a very real problem life spans have increased because of technological advances in vaccines, medicine, a regular supply of food and sanitation. Seriously. Vaccines, medicine and sanitation alone could account for the increase as well as a better understanding of food in the diet. There is a very real chance Billy that the next generation of kids will have a shorter life span than ours due to poor eating habits. This is not alarmist rhetoric designed to take over anything. Look it up, it's scary and it's true.
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FU slave! I'll make my own decisions without having that communist asshole and his chewbacca wife in my fridge.
Who said you couldn't eat what you want? Wasn't me. All i believe in is full disclosure. Now about eating that gun you stool pushing monkey...get to it!
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You and i know that Billy but that doesn't stop Mcdonalds advertising with athletes, doesn't stop the corn lobby from claiming high fructose corn syrup is the same as sugar cane, all that does it implicitly tell people that 'hey it's okay to eat a big mac michael jordan did' or 'HFCS? that's just sugar lets eat it' without understanding and knowing the real facts behind those foods and what they can do to you.
BMI is stupid i agree. But obesity is a very real problem life spans have increased because of technological advances in vaccines, medicine, a regular supply of food and sanitation. Seriously. Vaccines, medicine and sanitation alone could account for the increase as well as a better understanding of food in the diet. There is a very real chance Billy that the next generation of kids will have a shorter life span than ours due to poor eating habits. This is not alarmist rhetoric designed to take over anything. Look it up, it's scary and it's true.
The article wasn't about health though KC; it was about telling restaraunts to cut back on sodium not full disclosure. While you have a point about giving people that full disclosure this is clearly government taking control of private businesses(once again) and telling them what to do. It would be one thing if the sodium content was some how put on menus, but to tell restaraunts what they can put into their food is another. This is too much control and is not about disclosure...while I wish it was because I do like to look at the nutrition facts(the bodybuilder in me) I don't like the idea of more government intrusion. I also don't agree with the sin tax either but that if for another conversation.
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You and i know that Billy but that doesn't stop Mcdonalds advertising with athletes, doesn't stop the corn lobby from claiming high fructose corn syrup is the same as sugar cane, all that does it implicitly tell people that 'hey it's okay to eat a big mac michael jordan did' or 'HFCS? that's just sugar lets eat it' without understanding and knowing the real facts behind those foods and what they can do to you.
BMI is stupid i agree. But obesity is a very real problem life spans have increased because of technological advances in vaccines, medicine, a regular supply of food and sanitation. Seriously. Vaccines, medicine and sanitation alone could account for the increase as well as a better understanding of food in the diet. There is a very real chance Billy that the next generation of kids will have a shorter life span than ours due to poor eating habits. This is not alarmist rhetoric designed to take over anything. Look it up, it's scary and it's true.
Here is where we disagree.There are two sides of this isue.YES obesity is a problem.You have one group who say "its because of diet".However,in my opinion ,kids are getting fatter because they dont go outside and play anymore.They stay in their house and play x-box.Now,diet will make you fat IF you sit on your big fat ass and dont do anything.But if your kid is out playing,I dont care what they eat,they wont be fat[a few would but you know what I mean]
When I was a kid,black kids[I use them because their diets were awful] used to be eating barbq chips and nehi grape sodas for breakfast,eat the school lunch for lunch and then go home and eat ribs and every other type of greassy thing you could eat.They were never fat.Why?they were always playing.
So,obesity is a problem,but in my opinion its not diet or super sized foods or chips or cookies,its that kids are fat lazy asses that dont do a fucking thing but sit in front of their gamme systems and dont ever move.My kis has been training since he was 7 years old,he is not allowed to play video games during the week,he eats like crap,the kid is ripped.Make these kids play,have schools have recess,put in more rec leagues and intamurel leagues for the kids that arent god enough to make teams they wont get fat.
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I totally support these measures. Sodium content in our foods is out of control, especially in restaurants. I believe in full disclosure of what amounts they put into the food we eat and strict regulation on overuse of sodium, certain fats and other nasty concoctions that can shorten life.
full disclosure is one thing youve said time and time again in this thread that you feel you should still be able to eat what you want but you made this comment first...THATS NOT eating what you want...that my friend is the govt telling you what you can eat...
if you feel that way about it then EAT AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!! its that simple
I agree that ppl are misinformed about basic nutrition and fitness I think that is painfully obvious but NO its not the govts place to regulate what ppl can eat, fine educate but dont over regulate shit...
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I totally support these measures. Sodium content in our foods is out of control, especially in restaurants. I believe in full disclosure of what amounts they put into the food we eat and strict regulation on overuse of sodium, certain fats and other nasty concoctions that can shorten life.
This is about regulating content, not disclosure.
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Every restaurant I've been to has salt and pepper shakers so there is nothing stopping anyone putting back the salt they took out back into their meals. Move on this is a good idea.
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This will greatly increase the cost of food.
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Every restaurant I've been to has salt and pepper shakers so there is nothing stopping anyone putting back the salt they took out back into their meals. Move on this is a good idea.
also nothing stopping you from asking for no salt...
not the govt place to regulate what you can and cant eat...
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also nothing stopping you from asking for no salt...
not the govt place to regulate what you can and cant eat...
fairly hard to do that when some items are manufactured with salt included
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This will greatly increase the cost of food.
No it won't - how can not adding something to food increase it's cost?
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also nothing stopping you from asking for no salt...
not the govt place to regulate what you can and cant eat...
the government isn't doing that - as i said you can add as much salt as you like with out fear of imprisonment
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the government isn't doing that - as i said you can add as much salt as you like with out fear of imprisonment
and likewise you can ask for no or less salt...
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I challenge anyone on here to get in better shape than me and I will consume High Fructose corn syrup laden foods, (which I already do everyday), salt laden foods, Full-Fat, Sugar anything, Fast Food anytime, etc...
I am also willing to bet whatever I eat will come out more nutritious than any typical garbage "healthy" or so called "clean" diet.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with GMO crops,salt, corn syrup, fat or any of it.
Anyone can eat anything they want and not be obese as long as they don`t overeat.
There is no such thing whatsoever as a "clean" or "dirty" food or "junk" food.
The stupidity and ignorance that surrounds this subject matter is mountainous as everyone tries to look for a scapegoat for their lack of self-control.
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You and i know that Billy but that doesn't stop Mcdonalds advertising with athletes, doesn't stop the corn lobby from claiming high fructose corn syrup is the same as sugar cane, all that does it implicitly tell people that 'hey it's okay to eat a big mac michael jordan did' or 'HFCS? that's just sugar lets eat it' without understanding and knowing the real facts behind those foods and what they can do to you.
BMI is stupid i agree. But obesity is a very real problem life spans have increased because of technological advances in vaccines, medicine, a regular supply of food and sanitation. Seriously. Vaccines, medicine and sanitation alone could account for the increase as well as a better understanding of food in the diet. There is a very real chance Billy that the next generation of kids will have a shorter life span than ours due to poor eating habits. This is not alarmist rhetoric designed to take over anything. Look it up, it's scary and it's true.
High Fructose Corn Syrup IS the same as sugar as far as the human body metabolizing it is concerned.
Sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup both contain approximately 50% glucose and 50% fructose. Also, Sugar and high fructose corn syrup have the same number of calories as most carbohydrates; both have four calories per gram. Because they are nearly compositionally equivalent, the human body cannot tell the difference between high fructose corn syrup and sugar.
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i have clear abs right now and i like 1-2 cheese danishes per day.
As long as I watch what I eat at night and keep going to the gym, I stay in shape.
That being said, regulating what ppl can eat is un-american. However, better education is a good idea. The majorty of ppl in Walmart can list 5 flavors of Pringles, but can't tell you a thing about nutrition, macronutrients, their body's requirements and functions, etc.
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Please go kill your fucking self.
I'm going to have to agree...
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This is unfortunate.The idea that people didnt know that breathing fire into their lungs wouldnt hurt their health is insane.The idea that people are unaware that eating a Big Mac isnt healthy is a joke.
Now,we keep hearing about the health risks of obesity and they use that idiotic BMI chart to show who is obese.We hear of the dangers of salt but life spans HAVE INCREASED not decreased.This is yet another ploy of the government to control every aspect of our lives.It has NOTHING to do with health at all.
Exactly, if people don't have enough sense to realize what is, and isn't healthy maybe we should just allow natural selection to take its course...
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When I was a kid,black kids[I use them because their diets were awful] used to be eating barbq chips and nehi grape sodas for breakfast,eat the school lunch for lunch and then go home and eat ribs and every other type of greassy thing you could eat.They were never fat.Why?they were always playing.
Racist ;D
HAHAHAHAH!
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i have clear abs right now and i like 1-2 cheese danishes per day.
As long as I watch what I eat at night and keep going to the gym, I stay in shape.
That being said, regulating what ppl can eat is un-american. However, better education is a good idea. The majorty of ppl in Walmart can list 5 flavors of Pringles, but can't tell you a thing about nutrition, macronutrients, their body's requirements and functions, etc.
Just as informatively challenged are the "health-nuts" that pretend to know what to eat(when they don`t) and demonize a particular food or group of food for no reason whatsoever because they cannot see that there is no causation to the correlation they totally invent out of thin air. Science goes out the window and myth takes over and is continually spread.
It is a shame that High Fructose Corn Syrup has been made out to be the bogeyman, the same goes for Fast Food companies, Ice Cream, Superior crops as a result of breeding......the list goes on and on and on. They vilify these things with no conclusive Scientific evidence whatsoever or they totally misunderstand food related studies altogether.
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I challenge anyone on here to get in better shape than me and I will consume High Fructose corn syrup laden foods, (which I already do everyday), salt laden foods, Full-Fat, Sugar anything, Fast Food anytime, etc...
I am also willing to bet whatever I eat will come out more nutritious than any typical garbage "healthy" or so called "clean" diet.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with GMO crops,salt, corn syrup, fat or any of it.
Anyone can eat anything they want and not be obese as long as they don`t overeat.
There is no such thing whatsoever as a "clean" or "dirty" food or "junk" food.
The stupidity and ignorance that surrounds this subject matter is mountainous as everyone tries to look for a scapegoat for their lack of self-control.
challenge accepted to be decided in the next mr. getbig
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challenge accepted to be decided in the next mr. getbig
Perfect.
I`ll put my 80/20 Beef Full Fat Nacho and Cheddar Cheese with Full Fat Mayonnaise burgers and Chocolate Chip Cookies against your lousy low fat Chicken and Rice diet any day of the week. 8)
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personally, i have found red wine (which I love love love) leaves me dreid out and lethargic every day after I drink a little.
cheese danishes on the other hand... they make a great pre-workout meal.
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Perfect.
I`ll put my 80/20 Beef Full Fat Nacho and Cheddar Cheese with Full Fat Mayonnaise burgers and Chocolate Chip Cookies against your lousy low fat Chicken and Rice diet any day of the week. 8)
LOL i dont really give a shit I just want another competitor for the next mr. getbig...but this will be a good side story ;D
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Here is what I ate today.
Whole Milk and Wheaties Fuel. QuaKer Oats and Chocolate Chip Fiber Granola bar.
I grilled an 8 ounce hamburger 80/20 beef, Farmhouse White Bread Buns, 5 Year Aged Cheddar Cheese, topped with Corn Chips, Onion rings and Jalapeño Peppers,Lettuce, Tomato, Ketchup, Full Fat Mayonnaise. I then Ate some Oreo Cookies afterwards.
A little bit later I had some Pecan Ice Cream.
Then a Strawberry Greek Yogurt.
After that, grilled another Burger made similar to the one above but with Ancho Chili Peppers. Another Granola bar and some more Oreos.
I will eat something before bed, most likely another Hamburger (a different type, I have a few Burger books) and a few bananas with Chocolate Milk a bit of Ice Cream with some whipped cream.
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I have been using his book. The burgers I made today are the ones on the cover.
(http://cm1.theinsider.com/thumbnail/345/388/cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/437/90/bflaybook.jpg)
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Here is what I ate today.
Whole Milk and Wheaties Fuel. QuaKer Oats and Chocolate Chip Fiber Granola bar.
I grilled an 8 ounce hamburger 80/20 beef, Farmhouse White Bread Buns, 5 Year Aged Cheddar Cheese, topped with Corn Chips, Onion rings and Jalapeño Peppers,Lettuce, Tomato, Ketchup, Full Fat Mayonnaise. I then Ate some Oreo Cookies afterwards.
A little bit later I had some Pecan Ice Cream.
Then a Strawberry Greek Yogurt.
After that, grilled another Burger made similar to the one above but with Ancho Chili Peppers. Another Granola bar and some more Oreos.
I will eat something before bed, most likely another Hamburger (a different type, I have a few Burger books) and a few bananas with Chocolate Milk a bit of Ice Cream with some whipped cream.
every try cinnimon? pretty damn good
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I challenge anyone on here to get in better shape than me and I will consume High Fructose corn syrup laden foods, (which I already do everyday), salt laden foods, Full-Fat, Sugar anything, Fast Food anytime, etc...
I am also willing to bet whatever I eat will come out more nutritious than any typical garbage "healthy" or so called "clean" diet.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with GMO crops,salt, corn syrup, fat or any of it.
Anyone can eat anything they want and not be obese as long as they don`t overeat.
There is no such thing whatsoever as a "clean" or "dirty" food or "junk" food.
The stupidity and ignorance that surrounds this subject matter is mountainous as everyone tries to look for a scapegoat for their lack of self-control.
I challenge you to keep up the same diet and come back and show us how it turns out for you when your 40. ::) Anyone with a high metab your age could say the same shit. I could have said the same shit.
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I ate two grilled Italian sausages for breakfast with fried potatoes (left over baked potatoes from yesterday), four deviled eggs, one half cup of pistachios, six McDonald's hamburgers without buns and one large fry, and coffee.
I'm leaner than ever, and look fucking amazing! :)
My only problem is Gluten. Any opinions on that Adonis? I'm almost certain I have celiac disease.
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I challenge you to keep up the same diet and come back and show us how it turns out for you when your 40. ::)
I`ll look the same as I do now, very lean, hopefully with a bit more muscle. Trust me on it.
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i had cheese danish, 2 meatloaf sandwiches, a big chicken salad, musclemilk, 2 protein shakes, and I think that is it. Some OJ too. lots of tea and water also.
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i had cheese danish, 2 meatloaf sandwiches, a big chicken salad, musclemilk, 2 protein shakes, and I think that is it. Some OJ too. lots of tea and water also.
I like the sound of that! It really is that easy.
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I ate two grilled Italian sausages for breakfast with fried potatoes (left over baked potatoes from yesterday), four deviled eggs, one half cup of pistachios, six McDonald's hamburgers without buns and one large fry, and coffee.
I'm leaner than ever, and look fucking amazing! :)
My only problem is Gluten. Any opinions on that Adonis? I'm almost certain I have celiac disease.
You will be ripped this summer for sure. I am not convinced you have celiac disease as you clearly are able to eat gluten. Do you exhibit any symptoms? Its a rather rare disease that affects not even 1 percent, (less than a percent), of the population so the probability that you do have it is VERY small.
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I ate two grilled Italian sausages for breakfast with fried potatoes (left over baked potatoes from yesterday), four deviled eggs, one half cup of pistachios, six McDonald's hamburgers without buns and one large fry, and coffee.
I'm leaner than ever, and look fucking amazing! :)
My only problem is Gluten. Any opinions on that Adonis? I'm almost certain I have celiac disease.
I would have kept the buns. I love them!
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I challenge you to keep up the same diet and come back and show us how it turns out for you when your 40. ::) Anyone with a high metab your age could say the same shit. I could have said the same shit.
Adam thinks that looking healthy and actually being healthy are the same thing.
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Adam thinks that looking healthy and actually being healthy are the same thing.
Again, I`ll put my diet`s nutritional content up against your approach any day of the week. I am confident that mine will come out just as or more nutritious as well as being complete with all necessary minerals and vitamins.
Let`s do it.
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nanny state? ha! It's called government tool it acts to serve the peoples best interest
When is it gonna start?
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You will be ripped this summer for sure. I am not convinced you have celiac disease as you clearly are able to eat gluten. Do you exhibit any symptoms? Its a rather rare disease that affects not even 1 percent, (less than a percent), of the population so the probability that you do have it is VERY small.
Why do you say I'm able to eat gluten? I've only had gluten five or six times in the last couple years and every time I get terrible diarrhea and bloating, arthritis in my shoulder, and within two days my face becomes completely broken out around my mouth. :o
Even the little bit of gluten in regular soy sauce causes it, within two or three days going back off gluten I'm completely normal again.
I decided not to mess with testing because I feel so much better off gluten.
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Again, I`ll put my diet`s nutritional content up against your approach any day of the week. I am confident that mine will come out just as or more nutritious as well as being complete with all necessary minerals and vitamins.
Let`s do it.
Are you concerned about things like trans fats and aspartame? I don't consume any aspartame.
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I`ll look the same as I do now, very lean, hopefully with a bit more muscle. Trust me on it.
countless people your age can say the same thing. Yet those same people find out it doesn't quite work out the same when they get older. Can you tell me why you're more special than everyone else?
Lets put it this way based on the diet you've posted here before, ie ice cream and junk food all day.
Group A: 20 to 30 years old on your diet. Working out hard on a regular basis, many will look ok.
Group B: 30 to 40 years old on your diet. Still working out hard, FACT many are going to start realizing there's a problem despite working out hard less will look good.
Group C: 40 to 50 years old on your diet. Extremely difficult to look good no matter how hard they're working out and on your fucking diet, some will start dropping dead.
You're a clueless dipshit. Remember this post when you get older and have a clue.
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Are you concerned about things like trans fats and aspartame? I don't consume any aspartame.
Aspartame has been unfairly demonized as well. Take this from a purely Scientific Point of view instead of a Conspiracy Theorist one. (The Science and Evidence are totally against the Anti-Aspartame misleading hysteria.
Check this link from the American Cancer Society on Aspartame.
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_1_3X_Aspartame.asp?sitearea=PED
And here is another from The National Cancer Institute.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/risk/aspartame
The verdict is in on Aspartame. It is totally harmless.
A study of about half a million people, published in 2006, compared people who drank aspartame-containing beverages with those who did not. Results of the study showed that increasing levels of consumption were not associated with any risk of lymphomas, leukemias, or brain cancers in men or women. (Question 2)
Researchers examined the relationship between aspartame intake and 1,888 lymphomas or leukemias and 315 malignant brain cancers among the participants of the NIH-AARP Diet and Health Study from 1995 until 2000. Development of these cancers was not associated with estimated aspartame consumption, refuting a recent animal study with positive findings for lymphomas and leukemias and also contradicting claims regarding brain cancer risk. (Questions 3 and 8)
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countless people your age can say the same thing. Yet those same people find out it doesn't quite work out the same when they get older. Can you tell me why you're more special than everyone else?
Lets put it this way based on the diet you've posted here before, ie ice cream and junk food all day.
Group A: 20 to 30 years old on your diet. Working out hard on a regular basis, many will look ok.
Group B: 30 to 40 years old on your diet. Still working out hard, FACT many are going to start realizing there's a problem despite working out hard less will look good.
Group C: 40 to 50 years old on your diet. Extremely difficult to look good no matter how hard they're working out and on your fucking diet, some will start dropping dead.
You're a clueless dipshit. Remember this post when you get older and have a clue.
I am in group A right now and I look better than ok, in fact the best I have ever looked, certainly better than you. :)
I already know people who eat like I do in Group B, some are on this very site, and are ripped (Wavelength being one of them in Group B) and look better than you. :)
I also know of 40 plus year olds with a similar diet that look better.
The point is, none of us are special and we all eat what we want, whatever that may be and we all are in well above average shape.
Everyone can do this, despite your Unscientific disbelief. You choose to believe myth over Science and that is your error.
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Are you concerned about things like trans fats and aspartame? I don't consume any aspartame.
I am not concerned whatsoever with Trans Fats. Given that I ingest only around 2800-3000 calories a day and given my ever changing constant variety of foods, I hardly rack up significant amounts of Trans Fat at all.
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clueless... Let's see how that diet works out for you when your natural test levels start tanking. And don't tell me you know better than me. You don't know. end of story. The only way you're going to look good on your diet if you continue to 40 and beyond won't be natural. Which is probably the case with some of the people you've mentioned and I doubt some of the people you've mentioned are as devoted to the shit you eat either.
I guess you probably think your test levels won't be decreasing either huh?
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Oh and TA, if you're not getting a monthly check from McDonalds, you're even more of an idiot hahahhaa....
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clueless... Let's see how that diet works out for you when your natural test levels start tanking. And don't tell me you know better than me. You don't know. end of story. The only way you're going to look good on your diet if you continue to 40 and beyond won't be natural. Which is probably the case with some of the people you've mentioned and I doubt some of the people you've mentioned are as devoted to the shit you eat either.
I guess you probably think your test levels won't be decreasing either huh?
I bet you didn`t know that we grow a lot of our food. I`ll have to post pictures of all of our crops Jezebelle has planted this year.
I can`t wait to have over 30 different varieties of Tomatoes to try on my Hamburgers!
In fact, I am willing to send you some seeds if you like, as I think it is custom to do so. Jezebelle is all over the GardenWeb and is in a seed exchange program.
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Oh and TA, if you're not getting a monthly check from McDonalds, you're even more of an idiot hahahhaa....
I prefer to grill burgers myself, sometimes using a bit fattier meat and certainly bigger than McDonalds. McDonalds uses 80/20 as their standard.
I also use a smoker box with wood Chips on Charcoal or sometimes grab some different types of wood outside. McDonalds doesn`t smoke their hamburgers obviously.
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clueless... Let's see how that diet works out for you when your natural test levels start tanking. And don't tell me you know better than me. You don't know. end of story. The only way you're going to look good on your diet if you continue to 40 and beyond won't be natural. Which is probably the case with some of the people you've mentioned and I doubt some of the people you've mentioned are as devoted to the shit you eat either.
I guess you probably think your test levels won't be decreasing either huh?
Timberwolf, 5`10 175 Lbs, A LifeTime Natural in his 40s would disagree.
I love this video of him. 8)
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Here is Wavelength who is in his Mid Thirties at about 150-160 at 5`10.
(http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2009/07/04/18099922/gallerypic/3934581.jpg)
(http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2009/07/04/18099922/gallerypic/3976591.jpg)
(http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2009/07/04/18099922/gallerypic/3941311.jpg)
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Here is one of me around 178 at 5`11.
8)
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;) Timberwolf again.
(http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2009/10/08/40598/gallerypic/4445641.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs187.snc3/19448_311490515317_579795317_4061709_2332201_n.jpg)
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TA, I'm going by the diet you bragged about a few years ago. Which was pretty much ice cream and any junk food you could get your hands on. I'm not saying saturated fat isn't good for you. It's important actually. But that food often contains crap fillers that are worthless. A great amount of simple sugars that ARE not as good as complex etc etc...
are you saying your diet as posted before "eat everything crap in site, diet on the same crap" is better than a person who eats healthy and proportions their fats/carbs protein etc accordingly?
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TA, I'm going by the diet you bragged about a few years ago. Which was pretty much ice cream and any junk food you could get your hands on. I'm not saying saturated fat isn't good for you. It's important actually. But that food often contains crap fillers that are worthless. A great amount of simple sugars that ARE not as good as complex etc etc...
are you saying your diet as posted before "eat everything crap in site, diet on the same crap" is better than a person who eats healthy and proportions their fats/carbs protein etc accordingly?
1. I advocate not overeating. For instance I eat 2800-3000 calories a day. I obviously can permit myself to have larger caloric days, but I usually keep constant at this amount. If I want to get super ripped I just lower my calories to about 2500-2600. If you keep an overall sensible caloric amount there is no reason whatsoever to limit your food choices (there never really is ever a reason to do so unless illness or allergy of course). I eat anything I enjoy.
2. Since I train heavy, I also suggest getting around .5 to 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. I do not keep track of my precise daily number as I hit that by default by what I eat. Its not difficult at all to fall around that number without even trying.
3. Macro ratios do not matter as you will get a decent ratio by default if you follow the above advice. I can calculate mine each day to show you. I am sure it constantly changes as I eat whatever I happen to fancy at the moment. Regardless, it ends in an adequate ratio. I am also willing to show you that again, by default, I get wonderful levels of Vitamins and Minerals.
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Why do you liberals favor a cradle to grave nanny state?
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Why do you liberals favor a cradle to grave nanny state?
I've got enough things to worry about without having to worry about how much salt is in my food.
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I totally support these measures. Sodium content in our foods is out of control, especially in restaurants. I believe in full disclosure of what amounts they put into the food we eat and strict regulation on overuse of sodium, certain fats and other nasty concoctions that can shorten life.
Then appoint them to be your food police. The issue isn't disclosure. The issue is that people JUST DON'T CARE. There is PLENTY of information about how much sodium is in certain foods.
It ain't YOUR JOB or that of the FDA to dictate what does or doesn't go in the mouths of other Americans.
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I've got enough things to worry about without having to worry about how much salt is in my food.
So empower the government to regulate and drive the price up of food and control contents?
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Here is the thing Billy. The American people DO need help with dietary choices, i'm not advocating that they tell you exactly where and what you can eat, i advocate for full disclosure of what is in the food and full investigation into the effects any and all additives have on the human body. That way we can finally know what is and isn't healthy.
The same complaint can be made for the government banning steroids. They did it without information and without a full investigation into the effects it has long term. Because of that we have all these half truths from anti-steroid morons instead of truth.
What "full investigation"? This stuff ain't news. The information has been out there FOR DECADES. And far too often, the FDA (and much of the government or the "mainstream") is WAY BEHIND, in terms of diet and nutrition. They're just now "discovering" stuff that I and others have known for over 20 years.
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So empower the government to regulate and drive the price up of food and control contents?
It's a balance I admit. But in this case I don't think the price would be that high.
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It's a balance I admit. But in this case I don't think the price would be that high.
So where does it end? What is your limit for the power of the govt over your life?
Do you realize that salt is important in adding shelf life to many foods and that this will cause a huge price increase for many foods?
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So where does it end? What is your limit for the power of the govt over your life?
Do you realize that salt is important in adding shelf life to many foods and that this will cause a huge price increase for many foods?
Do you realise that all the people that get heart conditions, kidney problems, etc. are going to drive up your health insurance premiums? At least make it harder for them to make the wrong choice.
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Do you realise that all the people that get heart conditions, kidney problems, etc. are going to drive up your health insurance premiums? At least make it harder for them to make the wrong choice.
We are all mortal and going to die anyway at some time. Plus, using your justification, I can think of many many things that the govt could theoretically regulate and/or ban.
Should we have the food police in resturants?
Should we ban motorcycles?
Should we ban beer?
Should be ban skydiving and jetskiing?
Should we ban candy?
Do you realize that this crap never ever ends?
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We are all mortal and going to die anyway at some time. Plus, using your justification, I can think of many many things that the govt could theoretically regulate and/or ban.
Should we have the food police in resturants?
Should we ban motorcycles?
Should we ban beer?
Should be ban skydiving and jetskiing?
Should we ban candy?
Do you realize that this crap never ever ends?
They already ban recreational drugs other than alcohol and tobacco. No one is saying to ban salt - and hopefully they do police restaurants and make sure there are no rats or cockroaches in the food you eat, I hope you're not suggesting they should stop?
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They already ban recreational drugs other than alcohol and tobacco. No one is saying to ban salt - and hopefully they do police restaurants and make sure there are no rats or cockroaches in the food you eat, I hope you're not suggesting they should stop?
So a food cop is going to stand over the chef now?
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GCB you havent addressed my comment...
why dont YOU just ask for no salt in your food? problem solved
why regulate an entire industry?
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Its not about salt, its about control, mandate, regulation, fines, taxes, fees, permits, inspectors, agencies, etc.
First its salt, then its sugar, then its corn syrup, then its food coloring, then its flavoring, then its butter, and on and on and on and on.
LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE ALREADY!
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OBAMA CAN POUND SALT
boblonsberry.com ^ | 04/21/10 | Bob Lonsberry
Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 10:08:23 AM by shortstop
If it weren’t tyranny, it would be funny.
But it is tyranny, so it’s not.
The Obama Administration has claimed for itself the right to determine how much salt is in your food. In this last area of personal choice – taste – you have lost your choice.
Or at least you will.
Under a plan being floated by the Obama Food and Drug Administration, the federal government will set salt levels in food the same way it sets emission levels for cars. In the name of protecting you, the government will enslave you.
And it will order food companies to systematically reduce the amount of salt in their products over the next 10 years. Like the proverbial frog in the pan of water, the regulations will become more stringent incrementally, in the belief that the American palate will adjust and comply.
Ten percent of the population is sensitive to sodium. One hundred percent of the population will suffer. Your bottle of V8 or can of Beef-A-Roni, the peas on your shelf and the bacon in your refrigerator, the ham at Easter and the hotdogs on the grill. All of these and thousands of others, prepared and marketed now to please the taste buds and attract the customers, will be bastardized tomorrow to bend to the dictate of government.
On Monday, Bill Clinton mocked those who believe government is a threat to their freedom. On Tuesday, the government took away yet more of our freedom.
And with Dredd Scott a new generation of Americans is forced to ask, “Am I not a man?” Is all remnant of individuality, dignity and independence surrendered to the government? Is there no corner of life where the oppressive hand of government does not reach? Is even the seasoning of our food to now be subject to the dictate of government arrogance?
Must the Obama Administration force upon us food that is drab and joyless, to match the socially engineered life, society and economy it is even now forging?
In our constitutional Republic, can any honest person open that Constitution and find any hint of authorization for the federal government to meddle with our food? Can the commissars of the new Reich truly dictate our recipes and tastes?
Must dill pickles and smoked salmon join potato chips and gravy as politically incorrect foods? Is Colonel Sanders the new Joe Camel? Are the Jolly Green Giant and Charlie Tuna now public enemies? Will olives and peanut butter be condemned with Stove Top stuffing and tomato sauce? What about Tabasco and Hungry Man and Campbell’s and Chef Boyardee?
Big Brother meets the Iron Chef and this is no longer the land of the free.
Unelected bureaucrats, led by appointed lackeys of a Marxist president, will make law and direct culture and we will have no voice. There has been no public discussion, no rising sentiment, no will of the people. The Congress has not weighed in, the courts have not spoken, no type of check or balance has come into play. The Constitution has been castrated, culture is meaningless, heritage is ignored and the last corner of life is invaded.
We have been informed that there is a “public health crisis” and that the government must act to save us from ourselves. And so one of the first shots is fired in the war to take over our food supply in the same way government has already taken over transportation and energy and health care. First they nationalized the banks and the car companies and now they will nationalize us.
Today it is salt and tomorrow it will be fat and the day after that it will be dairy and red meat. All will be taxed and regulated and overseen, and like the great collectives of the other socialist paradises – China and Russia – we will first be impoverished and then we will be starved.
He promised us change and we got the Cultural Revolution. Khrushchev is proven right yet again.
And the spiraling de-evolution of American liberty passes another milestone.
We can’t even decide how much salt there will be in our food. We are not to be trusted to buy our own food, and judge for ourselves its healthfulness and desirability. The grocery store has become a threat to social order, where unrestrained shopping has produced politically incorrect production and the state must intervene.
We are tax slaves to a redistributionist scheme, serfs to a modern prince, and now we will not even be allowed to enjoy our food.
The Obama Administration knows better than you how much salt should be in your food, and will relieve you of the responsibility of deciding for yourself. The party of choice when it comes to abortion forbids you choice when it comes to dinner. The Constitution protects the privacy of abortion, they say, but not the privacy of seasoning your own food.
This is what it’s like when a free people are brought down.
Ye are the salt of the earth, someone once said. But if the salt has lost its savor, it is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and trod under foot of man.
And that’s exactly what this does to your freedom.
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I challenge anyone on here to get in better shape than me and I will consume High Fructose corn syrup laden foods, (which I already do everyday), salt laden foods, Full-Fat, Sugar anything, Fast Food anytime, etc...
I am also willing to bet whatever I eat will come out more nutritious than any typical garbage "healthy" or so called "clean" diet.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with GMO crops,salt, corn syrup, fat or any of it.
Anyone can eat anything they want and not be obese as long as they don`t overeat.
There is no such thing whatsoever as a "clean" or "dirty" food or "junk" food.
The stupidity and ignorance that surrounds this subject matter is mountainous as everyone tries to look for a scapegoat for their lack of self-control.
Uh shape and health are two different things TA. You're buying far too much into arrogant science. The belief that science knows more than evolution. Man didn't evolve on a diet of HFCS or GM foods, he evolved on nuts, fruits, rice, grains, meats and vegetables. You can claim science can better food or change it and it's still the same all you want. Fact is it isn't. Now i understand GM foods are a necessary part of modern life, without them we would have a much greater food shortages. But that doesn't make them an overall better food, nor does it make all of the products produced good either. HFCS is not sugar it's not the same and it effects the body in a different way. The only reason it's even in existence is because corn is subsidized and that makes it a cheaper alternative. It's not a scientific reason at all, but a commercial one and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
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Uh shape and health are two different things TA. You're buying far too much into arrogant science. The belief that science knows more than evolution. Man didn't evolve on a diet of HFCS or GM foods, he evolved on nuts, fruits, rice, grains, meats and vegetables. You can claim science can better food or change it and it's still the same all you want. Fact is it isn't. Now i understand GM foods are a necessary part of modern life, without them we would have a much greater food shortages. But that doesn't make them an overall better food, nor does it make all of the products produced good either. HFCS is not sugar it's not the same and it effects the body in a different way. The only reason it's even in existence is because corn is subsidized and that makes it a cheaper alternative. It's not a scientific reason at all, but a commercial one and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
1. Evolution IS Science and your argument that because we didn`t "evolve" with certain technologies therefore they are detrimental, not as beneficial or not effective is just plain ignorant and frankly stupid.
Not only that, we didn`t "evolve" with the fruits and vegetables that we eat today. We artifically selected them and hence evolved them over thousands of years to make them suitable for us to consume to the products we eat today. Most wild plants are inedible or provide little nutrition. Agriculture has changed that. Here is what a wild banana looks like.
(http://randazza.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/wild-banana.jpg?w=256&h=228)
You would most likely live a nutritionally deficient life as well as a short life due to nutrition deficiency if you had to subsist only on foods of early Homo Sapiens.
Lets go a bit further,
We didn`t evolve with eyeglasses, modern medicine-vaccines, automobiles etc.. Take those technological advancements away and your life may not be possible, the likelihood that you would have died by now without vaccination and without your surrounding population being vaccinated is extremely high and nearly a certainty. To say that we should live in an environment or behave or consume solely what our Lower Paleolithic ancestors did is just plain ignorant and makes zero sense especially when we have the Science and knowledge to overcome our environment and even our own genetics. As Richard Dawkins states, "There is a genetic component to everything, but that certainly does not mean we can`t or shouldn`t change it".
Again, HFCS is identical to Sugar and the human body cannot tell the difference when it metabolizes it. You are believing in total myth with no evidence. I choose to go with Science. Why does Science go completely out of the window with you on this issue?
Why believe myths that are not supported by any Scientific evidence?
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Uh shape and health are two different things TA. You're buying far too much into arrogant science. The belief that science knows more than evolution. Man didn't evolve on a diet of HFCS or GM foods, he evolved on nuts, fruits, rice, grains, meats and vegetables. You can claim science can better food or change it and it's still the same all you want. Fact is it isn't. Now i understand GM foods are a necessary part of modern life, without them we would have a much greater food shortages. But that doesn't make them an overall better food, nor does it make all of the products produced good either. HFCS is not sugar it's not the same and it effects the body in a different way. The only reason it's even in existence is because corn is subsidized and that makes it a cheaper alternative. It's not a scientific reason at all, but a commercial one and you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
Again, I am also willing to put my diets total nutrient content against yours any day of the week and we can compare nutritional value. Are you up to it?
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http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/88/6/1716S?ijkey=QWxerxxoSOP4o&keytype=ref&siteid=ajcn
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, doi:10.3945/ajcn.2008.25825B
Vol. 88, No. 6, 1716S-1721S, December 2008
2008 American Society for Clinical Nutrition
Supplement: High-Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS): Everything You Wanted to Know, but Were Afraid to Ask
Straight talk about high-fructose corn syrup: what it is and what it ain't1,2,3,4
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP AND SUCROSE ARE NOT SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT UNIQUELY OBESITY-PROMOTING
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT PREDICTIVE OF US OBESITY
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT PREDICTIVE OF GLOBAL OBESITY
ELIMINATING HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP WOULD NOT HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON OBESITY
CONCLUSIONS
The hypothesis that HFCS is a unique cause of obesity is not supportable in the United States or elsewhere, and the reasons are clear:
HFCS has the same sugars composition as other "benign" fructose-glucose sweeteners such as sucrose, honey, and fruit juice concentrates and dietary sources such as fruits and juices;
Increased caloric intake since 1970 was not due to added sugars (including HFCS) but rather was due to increased consumption of all caloric nutrients, especially fats and flour and cereals;
HFCS is consumed in equal amounts with sucrose in the United States, but at <10% of the amount of sucrose worldwide;
Fructose-glucose sweeteners are metabolized through the same pathways regardless of dietary source;
Although pure fructose can cause metabolic upsets at high concentrations and in the absence of glucose, such experiments are irrelevant for HFCS, which is not consumed at extreme high levels and contains both fructose and glucose;
There is no longer an association between HFCS and obesity in the United States: per capita consumption of HFCS has declined in recent years, whereas obesity rates continue to rise; and
There is absolutely no association between HFCS use and worldwide obesity; HFCS is really a minor sweetener in the global perspective.
No one would disagree that HFCS as a caloric ingredient can lead to weight gain if products sweetened with it are consumed to excess. After all, the same may be said for all caloric ingredients, such as fats, protein, alcohol, and other carbohydrates. But there is absolutely no proof that HFCS acts in any exclusive manner to promote obesity.
It is time to retire the hypothesis that HFCS is uniquely responsible for obesity. (Other articles in this supplement to the Journal include references 34-37.)
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Why are liberals ok with regulating salt but no ok with regulating abortion?
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http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/88/6/1716S?ijkey=QWxerxxoSOP4o&keytype=ref&siteid=ajcn
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, doi:10.3945/ajcn.2008.25825B
Vol. 88, No. 6, 1716S-1721S, December 2008
2008 American Society for Clinical Nutrition
Supplement: High-Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS): Everything You Wanted to Know, but Were Afraid to Ask
Straight talk about high-fructose corn syrup: what it is and what it ain't1,2,3,4
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP AND SUCROSE ARE NOT SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT UNIQUELY OBESITY-PROMOTING
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT PREDICTIVE OF US OBESITY
HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP IS NOT PREDICTIVE OF GLOBAL OBESITY
ELIMINATING HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP WOULD NOT HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON OBESITY
CONCLUSIONS
The hypothesis that HFCS is a unique cause of obesity is not supportable in the United States or elsewhere, and the reasons are clear:
HFCS has the same sugars composition as other "benign" fructose-glucose sweeteners such as sucrose, honey, and fruit juice concentrates and dietary sources such as fruits and juices;
Increased caloric intake since 1970 was not due to added sugars (including HFCS) but rather was due to increased consumption of all caloric nutrients, especially fats and flour and cereals;
HFCS is consumed in equal amounts with sucrose in the United States, but at <10% of the amount of sucrose worldwide;
Fructose-glucose sweeteners are metabolized through the same pathways regardless of dietary source;
Although pure fructose can cause metabolic upsets at high concentrations and in the absence of glucose, such experiments are irrelevant for HFCS, which is not consumed at extreme high levels and contains both fructose and glucose;
There is no longer an association between HFCS and obesity in the United States: per capita consumption of HFCS has declined in recent years, whereas obesity rates continue to rise; and
There is absolutely no association between HFCS use and worldwide obesity; HFCS is really a minor sweetener in the global perspective.
No one would disagree that HFCS as a caloric ingredient can lead to weight gain if products sweetened with it are consumed to excess. After all, the same may be said for all caloric ingredients, such as fats, protein, alcohol, and other carbohydrates. But there is absolutely no proof that HFCS acts in any exclusive manner to promote obesity.
It is time to retire the hypothesis that HFCS is uniquely responsible for obesity. (Other articles in this supplement to the Journal include references 34-37.)
TA - i have not followed your diet and theories on this.
Can you give me the short version? Are you more concerned with calories, content?
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Why are liberals ok with regulating salt but no ok with regulating abortion?
Liberals can be ignorant too, ESPECIALLY when it comes to food. Science goes completely out of the window and this sort of ignorance REALLY pisses me off.
Liberals do not have a shortage of Science Denialists I can assure you.
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TA - i have not followed your diet and theories on this.
Can you give me the short version? Are you more concerned with calories, content?
As far as obesity goes, over-consumption of calories, whatever the source, will result in obesity. No obese person lacks nutrients or minerals that is for sure. They have plenty of those!
By regularly consuming an adequate amount of calories, for me 2500-3000, I get all the nutrition I need and then some just by default with my varying food choices. I get all the Macro nutrients, vitamins and minerals I could ever hope to need, day in and day out without making a conscious effort of doing so.
The beauty of modern food science has also made it easier by selecting alleles in fruits and vegetables for higher Nutrient Content as well as adding and incorporating Vitamins and Minerals in our food supply with tons of products.
It really is a shame that the myth slingers and Science Denialists are trying to put a stranglehold on our food supply. Every crop we eat today, every crop Humans have ever eaten, is a result of Artificial Selection, that is precisely what Agriculture is. We happen to be at a great Scientific pinnacle in regards to being able to predict and select our foods for taste, nutritional content, color, crop yield etc....without playing futile guessing games.
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As far as obesity goes, over-consumption of calories, whatever the source, will result in obesity. No obese person lacks nutrients or minerals that is for sure. They have plenty of those!
By regularly consuming an adequate amount of calories, for me 2500-3000, I get all the nutrition I need and then some just by default with my varying food choices. I get all the Macro nutrients, vitamins and minerals I could ever hope to need, day in and day out without making a conscious effort of doing so.
The beauty of modern food science has also made it easier by selecting alleles in fruits and vegetables for higher Nutrient Content as well as adding and incorporating Vitamins and Minerals in our food supply with tons of products.
It really is a shame that the myth slingers and Science Denialists are trying to put a stranglehold on our food supply. Every crop we eat today, every crop Humans have ever eaten, is a result of Artificial Selection, that is precisely what Agriculture is. We happen to be at a great Scientific pinnacle in regards to being able to predict and select our foods for taste, nutritional content, color, crop yield etc....without playing futile guessing games.
Are you saying I can eat 2500 calries of beer, pizza, and cheeze dodles and it doesnt matter?
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If anyone is interested in learning about the link between diet and disease, and ready to have everything we've been taught challenged, I recommend the book "The China Study."
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Are you saying I can eat 2500 calries of beer, pizza, and cheeze dodles and it doesnt matter?
You would be in great shape for Summer and possibly ripped if you did so. Get about .5 to 1 gram of protein if you are heavy weight training which is really easy to do. Pizza has a lot of protein and of course Vitamins and Nutrients.
I know you probably have a lot of muscle seeing as you used to compete in the NPC so you may be able to eat a little more or you may have to eat a little less depending on your situation and how ripped you want to be.
2500 is a good starting point and you can work from there.
The very beauty of Food Science is the fact that Vitamins and Minerals are increased or added in a lot of foods that you normally would not think of as being nutritionally sound. This makes it even easier to eat whatever you like.
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You would be in great shape for Summer and possibly ripped if you did so. Get about .5 to 1 gram of protein if you are heavy weight training which is really easy to do. Pizza has a lot of protein and of course Vitamins and Nutrients.
I know you probably have a lot of muscle seeing as you used to compete in the NPC so you may be able to eat a little more or you may have to eat a little less depending on your situation and how ripped you want to be.
2500 is a good starting point and you can work from there.
The very beauty of Food Science is the fact that Vitamins and Minerals are increased or added in a lot of foods that you normally would not think of as being nutritionally sound. This makes it even easier to eat whatever you like.
AWESOME - I'M GOING TO POP A FEW SAM ADAMS'!
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AWESOME - I'M GOING TO POP A FEW SAM ADAMS'!
I drink Wine or Samuel Smith! Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout has about 10 grams of Protein. 8)
(http://media.rd.com/rd/images/rdc/slideshows/st-patricks-day-beer/st-patricks-beer-sam-smith-oatmeal-stout-ss.jpg)
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Do you split it over 6 meals a day?
The whole chicken and brolli and brown rice, while boring as shit, always worked for me.
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You would be in great shape for Summer and possibly ripped if you did so. Get about .5 to 1 gram of protein if you are heavy weight training which is really easy to do. Pizza has a lot of protein and of course Vitamins and Nutrients.
I know you probably have a lot of muscle seeing as you used to compete in the NPC so you may be able to eat a little more or you may have to eat a little less depending on your situation and how ripped you want to be.
2500 is a good starting point and you can work from there.
The very beauty of Food Science is the fact that Vitamins and Minerals are increased or added in a lot of foods that you normally would not think of as being nutritionally sound. This makes it even easier to eat whatever you like.
Is .5 or 1 gram of protein per lb enough?Guys have ben preaching for years that you need 2grams per lb.Would you retain muscle only eating that little protein?Also,if a guy was a competative bodybuilder could he follow that diet get ripped AND retain size along the way?
If your right[Im not debating,just asking]why do guys like Palumbo preach a keto diet and George Farah preach a higher carb diet etc[you know what I mean].Why isnt there more agreement in such a small sport over diet.
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Shit - if TA can formulate a diet around alcohol for me that will get me ripped and not kill my liver - damn, i'll sign up for that!
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Do you split it over 6 meals a day?
The whole chicken and brolli and brown rice, while boring as shit, always worked for me.
I don`t have a meal pattern. I just eat the calories throughout the day whenever I feel like it. I make sure though to get that amount everyday. Right now I eat 2800 day in and day out.
Your diet will work given the low caloric amount, but a big problem with the standard "bodybuilding" approach is that a lot of the times its not only boring, tasteless and mentally unfulfillable, it also may lack the vitamins and nutrients due to strict food choice limitation (which DOES NOT have to happen).
I have tracked a few bodybuilders and their diets each day using www.nutritionaldata.com and using the USDA Nutrition Calculator along with Calorie King and compared it to my varied diet and find that what I eat provides more Vitamin and Nutrient content due to my ever changing and varied foods.
The "bodybuilding" diet and its content is sort of rigid and locked in and can contain many Nutritional deficiencies as a result. This is why I challenge anyone to post their daily diet and I will analyze its content and compare it with mine just to show the disparity.
I even hear crazy bodybuilders avoiding fruit and milk! It really is lunacy.
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I don`t have a meal pattern. I just eat the calories throughout the day whenever I feel like it. I make sure though to get that amount everyday. Right now I eat 2800 day in and day out.
Your diet will work given the low caloric amount, but a big problem with the standard "bodybuilding" approach is that a lot of the times its not only boring, tasteless and mentally unfulfillable, it also may lack the vitamins and nutrients due to strict food choice limitation (which DOES NOT have to happen).
I have tracked a few bodybuilders and their diets each day using www.nutritionaldata.com and using the USDA Nutrition Calculator along with Calorie King and compared it to my varied diet and find that what I eat provides more Vitamin and Nutrient content due to my ever changing and varied foods.
The "bodybuilding" diet and its content is sort of rigid and locked in and can contain many Nutritional deficiencies as a result. This is why I challenge anyone to post their daily diet and I will analyze its content and compare it with mine just to show the disparity.
I even hear crazy bodybuilders avoiding fruit and milk! It really is lunacy.
But why do you think that is?If it works as you say,you would think bodybuilders would do it just to avoid the boredom of a contest diet.Why suffer if you dont have to?Ive never understood how their can be so much disagreement over foods,carbs,proteins and fats from person to person.Either one way is the best or its not.
Like I said you have Palumo who has almost the opposite approach to Farah.Why is that?
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Damn, to think I starved myself those damn times on chicken broccoli, etc!
WTF!
I tried Atkins but felt physically sick from that.
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Is .5 or 1 gram of protein per lb enough?Guys have ben preaching for years that you need 2grams per lb.Would you retain muscle only eating that little protein?Also,if a guy was a competative bodybuilder could he follow that diet get ripped AND retain size along the way?
If your right[Im not debating,just asking]why do guys like Palumbo preach a keto diet and George Farah preach a higher carb diet etc[you know what I mean].Why isnt there more agreement in such a small sport over diet.
To be fair, I can`t speak for anyone who uses Steroids as more protein may be beneficial to those who are on a wide array of anabolics given the activated gene expression of the many, many different drugs people use. With that said, Nasser El Sonbaty used to ingest only around 100 grams of protein or so on a boatload of drugs and sat at 300 lbs plus for years on end.
Franco Columbu also advocates less protein, around the same as Nasser, even while he was powerlifting.
Billy, you have touched on something here as you mention the wide variance in diet practices, they are completely different yet all produce results. This is precisely the point of my approach and fits in right alongside. The only commonality in any cutting diet is the caloric amount, meaning the only way to get ripped is to reduce calories to the point you are burning more than you are consuming.
George Farrah`s diet does this, Palumbos does this (albeit painfully and devoid of essential nutrients from what I have seen) and mine does this.
Bottom line is, if you want to get ripped, eat less. Simple as that.
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To be fair, I can`t speak for anyone who uses Steroids as more protein may be beneficial to those who are on a wide array of anabolics given the activated gene expression of the many, many different drugs people use. With that said, Nasser El Sonbaty used to ingest only around 100 grams of protein or so on a boatload of drugs and sat at 300 lbs plus for years on end.
Franco Columbu also advocates less protein, around the same as Nasser, even while he was powerlifting.
Billy, you have touched on something here as you mention the wide variance in diet practices, they are completely different yet all produce results. This is precisely the point of my approach and fits in right alongside. The only commonality in any cutting diet is the caloric amount, meaning the only way to get ripped is to reduce calories to the point you are burning more than you are consuming.
George Farrah`s diet does this, Palumbos does this (albeit painfully and devoid of essential nutrients from what I have seen) and mine does this.
Bottom line is, if you want to get ripped, eat less. Simple as that.
Dave did my diet this last time.I was happy with the results BUT I wouldnt do it again.I was doing 3 hours a day of cardio.You add that to working 10 hours a day,training,going to my kids baseball games[about 150 from spring till a summer] and it was just insane.I actually felt like the cardio was slowing my dieting process.
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But why do you think that is?If it works as you say,you would think bodybuilders would do it just to avoid the boredom of a contest diet.Why suffer if you dont have to?Ive never understood how their can be so much disagreement over foods,carbs,proteins and fats from person to person.Either one way is the best or its not.
Like I said you have Palumo who has almost the opposite approach to Farah.Why is that?
Dogma and Fear.
When people do things their way for so long, they become emotionally invested in them and cannot deviate even if what they are doing may not be optimal or enjoyable even.
They take questioning their approach as an attack on their character. Then you hit them with Scientific evidence and fact which only deepens their hatred instead of allowing them the avenue of learning of a different approach.
Since someone has invested so much time in perhaps one school of thought (even if its not really based on evidence), they may also take it as an affront to their intelligence. Nobody wants to admit they were wrong or that there may be a better approach then what they have thought of.
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Dave did my diet this last time.I was happy with the results BUT I wouldnt do it again.I was doing 3 hours a day of cardio.You add that to working 10 hours a day,training,going to my kids baseball games[about 150 from spring till a summer] and it was just insane.I actually felt like the cardio was slowing my dieting process.
Yah Fcku that approach. I would be absolutely miserable eating and living like that on a treadmill.
Wavelength and I don`t bother with any cardio either. I think Cardio can be beneficial for health certainly, but its definitely not necessary to get insanely ripped.
I`d rather adjust my calories instead.
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Yah Fcku that approach. I would be absolutely miserable eating and living like that on a treadmill.
Wavelength and I don`t bother with any cardio either. I think Cardio can be beneficial for health certainly, but its definitely not necessary to get insanely ripped.
I`d rather adjust my calories instead.
TA - can we arrange a diet around Sam Adams and Taco Bell?
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TA - can we arrange a diet around Sam Adams and Taco Bell?
Easily.
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Easily.
Fill me in!
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Fill me in!
Here is what you will need to do.
1. Try to get .5 - 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. (as you lose weight you can keep adjusting down) Also, don`t worry about going under or going over at times. Just keep the average somewhere in that range.
2. I would like to know your weight right now, preferably pics which if you do send I assure you that I will NEVER post them or send them to anyone else, however they are not necessary. Try starting with 2500 calories day in and day out and we will go from there.
3. Eating like this is very simple from Fast Foods and the like since all of their caloric information is posted online or readily available. You know how much you are eating. If you like to cook as I do, just add up the ingredients via weight. A scale is your best friend and is easy to use. I prefer digital. www.nutritionaldata.com www.calorieking.com and www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ are all good sites to help you get caloric data. Not only do they have average ingredients, they have brand names and fast food amounts that you can adjust to reflect what you ate.
4. If you can, make a thread and list what you eat so I can see if you are on the right track. If you need anything or any help I will surely provide it. I can guarantee you will be extremely lean and you might even gain some muscle in the process.
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Here is what you will need to do.
1. Try to get .5 - 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. (as you lose weight you can keep adjusting down) Also, don`t worry about going under or going over at times. Just keep the average somewhere in that range.
2. I would like to know your weight right now, preferably pics which if you do send I assure you that I will NEVER post them or send them to anyone else, however they are not necessary. Try starting with 2500 calories day in and day out and we will go from there.
3. Eating like this is very simple from Fast Foods and the like since all of their caloric information is posted online or readily available. You know how much you are eating. If you like to cook as I do, just add up the ingredients via weight. A scale is your best friend and is easy to use. I prefer digital. www.nutritionaldata.com www.calorieking.com and www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ are all good sites to help you get caloric data. Not only do they have average ingredients, they have brand names and fast food amounts that you can adjust to reflect what you ate.
4. If you can, make a thread and list what you eat so I can see if you are on the right track. If you need anything or any help I will surely provide it. I can guarantee you will be extremely lean and you might even gain some muscle in the process.
Cool. Thanks. I will do that, AFTER this weekend. I have a hockey game, BIL coming in to town and a weekend of crap to deal with first.
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I go to a local family owned Greek place. This lady uses enough salt in her food to kill a weak man, but it's absolutely delicious, and people love it.
We shouldn't have the freedom to enjoy places like this anymore?
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I have been fortunate enough to work with a Troponin nutrition nutritionist for both offseason and precontest. I will take their advice and their scientifically proven diets over yours anyday TA. I enjoyed being lean and keeping mass thank you, you science doesn't stack up against the diets of some of the best nutritionist in this country. I don't think a debate with your cut and paste would stand up against Justin Harris' diets that are also backed by science and real world experience.
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I have been fortunate enough to work with a Troponin nutrition nutritionist for both offseason and precontest. I will take their advice and their scientifically proven diets over yours anyday TA. I enjoyed being lean and keeping mass thank you, you science doesn't stack up against the diets of some of the best nutritionist in this country. I don't think a debate with your cut and paste would stand up against Justin Harris' diets that are also backed by science and real world experience.
Mine are backed completely and solely by Science and of course, real world experience. I am not asking you to do what I do, I am simply asking to embrace credible Science and do not confuse things by spreading myth.
Does my method work and is it backed by Science. Yep. 100 percent.
Your method works just as mine does because the bottom line is met- You are burning more calories than you are consuming.
Simple as that.
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Mine are backed completely and solely by Science and of course, real world experience. I am not asking you to do what I do, I am simply asking to embrace credible Science and do not confuse things by spreading myth.
Does my method work and is it backed by Science. Yep. 100 percent.
Your method works just as mine does because the bottom line is met- You are burning more calories than you are consuming.
Simple as that.
you can consume alot more "clean" food than you can fast food and still be under your caloric output...
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you can consume alot more "clean" food than you can fast food and still be under your caloric output...
What do you mean by "clean" and "more"?
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What do you mean by "clean" and "more"?
you can consume more 90/10 meat than 80/20 and still end up with the same calorie count...you take it from there as this extends to all foods in your diet
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you can consume more 90/10 meat than 80/20 and still end up with the same calorie count...you take it from there as this extends to all foods in your diet
Sometimes I would rather trade the small savings for taste. That extra 10 percent of fat does keep it from sticking on the grill. Besides the fat content makes it pretty filling. :)
Nothing wrong with either one though. I eat all types and sometimes pick up the 90/10 if the 80/20 is out or if the 90/10 is cheaper than the 80/20.
Ground Beef rules.
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Adam can't stop thinking about himself as is evidenced with another thread derailed by his constant "me, me, me" attitude. Fill your diet with nothing but Coke, white bread and pepperoni sticks for all we care, you'll get cancer of the rectum but you'll look great in your coffin. Moron.
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I listened to Suicidal Tendencies while doing sets of 315 on the incline bench tonight.
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I listened to Suicidal Tendencies while doing sets of 315 on the incline bench tonight.
Right on. I love the old stuff. After Lights, Camera it all went downhill for me, but everything before that kicks fugging ass. If this tune didn't get you psyched, you're fucking dead.
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Sometimes I would rather trade the small savings for taste. That extra 10 percent of fat does keep it from sticking on the grill. Besides the fat content makes it pretty filling. :)
Nothing wrong with either one though. I eat all types and sometimes pick up the 90/10 if the 80/20 is out or if the 90/10 is cheaper than the 80/20.
Ground Beef rules.
Good luck with that. You're setting yourself up for some rough golden years.
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Sometimes I would rather trade the small savings for taste. That extra 10 percent of fat does keep it from sticking on the grill. Besides the fat content makes it pretty filling. :)
Nothing wrong with either one though. I eat all types and sometimes pick up the 90/10 if the 80/20 is out or if the 90/10 is cheaper than the 80/20.
Ground Beef rules.
I agree ground chuck can make some pretty tasty burgers...point is though cleaner foods allow you to eat more of them while still coming in under your caloric expenditure...eating 3 big mac meals a day will probably put you over...while eating 3 homemade burgers may not so you might be able to enjoy a fourth or a small snack...
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I agree ground chuck can make some pretty tasty burgers...point is though cleaner foods allow you to eat more of them while still coming in under your caloric expenditure...eating 3 big mac meals a day will probably put you over...while eating 3 homemade burgers may not so you might be able to enjoy a fourth or a small snack...
Nah, my homemade burgers come in at 840 calories each. A Big Mac is 540. Of course I could make my burgers smaller or any size and not put Mayo in them, but that kind of ruins the taste.
Quick Fact: A Big Mac has less cholesterol than a 6 ounce Chicken Breast.
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Adam can't stop thinking about himself as is evidenced with another thread derailed by his constant "me, me, me" attitude. Fill your diet with nothing but Coke, white bread and pepperoni sticks for all we care, you'll get cancer of the rectum but you'll look great in your coffin. Moron.
As I said, I am willing to put your diet against mine, Nutrient to Nutrient.
I will do all the work, just tell me EXACTLY what you ate. The foods you listed do not cause or lead to cancer especially when food variance is high.
On a given day for instance, my fiber content is around 30-50. Most "bodybuilder" diets are severely lacking in this area. They also lack Calcium because they tend to avoid milk and cheese and they lack many anti-oxidants because they avoid fruits or fruit based food products.
Thats where the beauty of Food Science comes in again. Don`t let any misinformed liberal or conservative tell you any different. Just examine the Science for yourself. You have people on this very site falsely demonizing corn syrup when the Science is NOT on their side whatsoever. They have what I call active imaginations and do not realize that there is no causation to their wacky correlations.
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Nah, my homemade burgers come in at 840 calories each. A Big Mac is 540. Of course I could make my burgers smaller or any size and not put Mayo in them, but that kind of ruins the taste.
Quick Fact: A Big Mac has less cholesterol than a 6 ounce Chicken Breast.
LOL depends on how you make it...and a big mac plus fries plus a coke comes in at what?
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6 oz chicken breast = 130 milligrams
Big Mac has just over 3 oz of meat in it= 73 milligrams
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LOL depends on how you make it...and a big mac plus fries plus a coke comes in at what?
Why not get a diet coke or no coke.
Why not get a small fries or just a Big Mac?
Or you could get the whole thing and then adjust your calories accordingly for whatever else you are going to eat.
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Why not get a diet coke or no coke.
Why not get a small fries or just a Big Mac?
Or you could get the whole thing and then adjust your calories accordingly for whatever else you are going to eat.
why not eat clean foods you make at home?...thats not the point your point was you can eat whatever you want and still lose weight and be just as nutritional as if you ate good foods...
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why not eat clean foods you make at home?...thats not the point your point was you can eat whatever you want and still lose weight and be just as nutritional as if you ate good foods...
Yep. You can eat whatever you want. All I ever do is cook. I made 2 of these today again:
I grilled an 8 ounce hamburger 80/20 beef, Farmhouse White Bread Buns, 5 Year Aged Cheddar Cheese, topped with Corn Chips, Onion rings and Jalapeño Peppers,Lettuce, Tomato, Ketchup, Full Fat Mayonnaise.
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why not eat clean foods you make at home?...thats not the point your point was you can eat whatever you want and still lose weight and be just as nutritional as if you ate good foods...
Oh you could certainly a Big Mac Large Fries and Coke, but keep in mind it does not have to be all or nothing.
You can do whatever you want and look great, just have to watch those overall calories and adjust accordingly.
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6 oz chicken breast = 130 milligrams
Big Mac has just over 3 oz of meat in it= 73 milligrams
Yep. I would rather eat the Big Mac with 25 grams of protein instead.
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Oh you could certainly a Big Mac Large Fries and Coke, but keep in mind it does not have to be all or nothing.
You can do whatever you want and look great, just have to watch those overall calories and adjust accordingly.
LOL the idea that if ate the same amount of calories from fat or from an well balanced diet and still look the same is idiotic...yes you will lose weight if you expend more than you take in but nutrtionally and the end result physique wise would be different...
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Yep. I would rather eat the Big Mac with 25 grams of protein instead.
The chicken at 3 oz is the same in protien, around 23 grams. Basically when you make sure the weight is the same they both come out the same in protien, at least on the chart Im looking at and the chicken has less calories.
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LOL the idea that if ate the same amount of calories from fat or from an well balanced diet and still look the same is idiotic...yes you will lose weight if you expend more than you take in but nutrtionally and the end result physique wise would be different...
Big Mac, Fries and Coke can easily be part of a well balanced diet and one could easily have a great physique whilst eating this along with whatever else you plan to eat in order to meet your caloric level.
As long as the rest of my guidelines are followed: Minimum Protein, Not exceeding caloric level there is no reason why you would not look your best.
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The chicken at 3 oz is the same in protien, around 23 grams. Basically when you make sure the weight is the same they both come out the same in protien and cholesterol, at least on the chart Im looking at and the chicken has less calories.
I err on the side of taste first and foremost. Anything can easily be incorporated to your daily caloric expenditure. I wouldn`t squabble over a few grams of protein or a few calories at all. Just make sure the protein requirement of .5 to 1 gram per lb of bodyweight is met and that you don`t go over your caloric limit and you are golden.
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I err on the side of taste first and foremost. Anything can easily be incorporated to your daily caloric expenditure. I wouldn`t squabble over a few grams of protein or a few calories at all. Just make sure the protein requirement of .5 to 1 gram per lb of bodyweight is met and that you don`t go over your caloric limit and you are golden.
Actually I made a slight error in the last post. The chicken has less calories and when the weight of the meats are the same it has less cholesterol while having almost the same amount of protien which actually makes it better for you. As far as taste is concerned, you can add things to the chicken and still come out better in nutritional value than the BigMac.
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Actually I made a slight error in the last post. The chicken has less calories and when the weight of the meats are the same it has less cholesterol while having almost the same amount of protien which actually makes it better for you. As far as taste is concerned, you can add things to the chicken and still come out better in nutritional value than the BigMac.
I don`t mind eating chicken, I grilled a few lbs of it last week and made a lot of different things with it.
Chicken can also be useful to free up calories for other food as well.
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This is hilarious.
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I ate too healthy tonight. I had a cheese danish stashed for a cheat meal, and I didnt even want it. I opted for chicken parm from olive garden. i fell like a million bucks. i guess this is growing up.
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I'm over this salt thing - maybe the FDA shouldn't regulate.
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This is hilarious.
By your tone in this thread I can tell that you are over-joyed that TA is here and back on the "Adonis Principles" path!
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I'm over this salt thing - maybe the FDA shouldn't regulate.
good just ask for no salt at resturaunts instead of trying to regulate an entire industry...
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I'm over this salt thing - maybe the FDA shouldn't regulate.