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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Danny on May 09, 2010, 12:39:56 AM
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SEATTLE — The Seattle Police Department is conducting an internal investigation into an officer who allegedly roughed up an innocent detainee, and it was all caught on film.
Seattle police detained three people including one Hispanic man in their hunt for possible armed robbery suspects. The video shows a man lying face down without handcuffs and not under arrest.
On the video, you can hear an officer telling the man: “You got me? I’m going to beat the (expletive) Mexican piss out of you homey. You feel me?”
Seconds later, the man moves his hand, appearing to wipe his eye. The officer kicks him in the head as he wipes his boot on his hand. A female officer stomps on the his leg.
Police realize they detained the wrong man, lift him up, and let him go. The video does not show a medic arriving on scene, even though the man has cuts on his face, and appears to have trouble walking.
“I want you to relax your weight on the car, OK?” an officer is heard saying. “Put your hands back so you don’t fall down.”
A freelance photographer captured the video.
“So, they kicked you in the head man?” the photographer asked the victim. “Yeah they did,” he replied.
When asked why, the victim replied: “I don’t know. They just kicked me in the head, they knocked me in the head.” He added he had nothing to do with what was going on.
One of the officers involved has already apologized:
SEATTLE — A 15-year-veteran of the Seattle police force, seen in a video roughing up an innocent detainee and saying ethnic slurs, came forward Friday evening to publicly apologize.
Detective Shandy Cobane gave a tearful statement expressing remorse for not only his derogatory comments, but for shedding a negative light on the Seattle police department.
“At no time did I ever dream that I would do anything that would bring such negative notoriety to my department,” Cobane said. “Sadly, I did.”
And if there’s any justice, he’ll be facing jail time for this.
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Many people tend to justify police abuse and brutality, what about this case though where the "criminal" was an innocent person?
I really hope the guy sues. The cop's apology is BS, I think he knows what's coming for him and wants to show repentance so maybe he'll get some sympathy.
These cops should go to jail, I'm sure many prisoners would await them with joy (if they're not given any special cops privileges and not put together with "common" inmates).
Good thing they didn't try to detain the photographer and confiscate his camera, claiming "disorderly conduct" or whatever they could come up with.
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He's going to get paid! And, hopefully, they'll get rid of the cops.
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Sounds like great police work.
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thats the best thing that coulda happened to this mexican, now he is the victim, he is gona get paid like no other, and just for a couple min of whooping, even if he did do something wrong white guilt and poiltical correctness are going to give this person and their family a great life
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if you are in russia or venezuela or china or n korea illegally, nobody pities you when they whoop your ass.
if you break the law and enter a place illegally, you dont have rights. seriously. NO american should ever endure such a whooping. But that's it. Beyond that, you ignored a sign and entered another soverign nation illegally.
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Sounds like great police work.
Agree 100%!
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Right or wrong, business as usual...
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Unless this guy drank a 6 pack of Coronas, I dont see the relvence of that statement.
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He had a smile in his face at the end of the video. He must be seeing $$$$.
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Living the dream...He's probably not even Mexican. Get that money, brown man!
(http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/mexico-haha.gif)
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Suckers!
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Police eventually realized the suspect wasn't involved in the crime and released him. He's apparently a 21-year-old graduate of Franklin High with no criminal background. Smart money says there's a lawsuit coming in the very near future.
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/05/fbi_investigating_seattle_poli.php
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What the Seattle police department needs is for Washington state to pass a law just like Arizona's new immigration law, you know, more tools for racist cops like these to abuse their power against Hispanics. ::)
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What the Seattle police department needs is for Washington state to pass a law just like Arizona's new immigration law, you know, more tools for racist cops like these to abuse their power against Hispanics. ::)
Yup. Racist. Has nothing to do with the bankruptcy illegal immigration is doing to AZ.. Why, America should have to give EVERYTHING to EVERYBODY!! Why not?? Greece is doing it?!
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Suckers!
I say no more landscaping for three weeks for them!! ;D
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Yup. Racist. Has nothing to do with the bankruptcy illegal immigration is doing to AZ.. Why, America should have to give EVERYTHING to EVERYBODY!! Why not?? Greece is doing it?!
Did I say anything about America giving everything to everybody?
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I knew a moron would bite and drag Arizona into this.
Hey, idiota, police brutality has been a reality before Arizona passed its law. And that law is not going to result in sudden national surge of excessive force by police against CITIZENS of USA.
I am sure, all of the sudden, there will be a sudden flood of this types of videos in order to try to discredit Arizona and keep other states from adopting the measure. Nothing out of the ordinary, but the media will make it look like cops are all of the sudden wilding out. Just look at Perth Amboy, NJ. Their police department has been doing this for decades.
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Did I say anything about America giving everything to everybody?
No, but you implied this was strictly a racist bill. It's a bill that enforces the federal laws. It is 18 pages long. It does not allow police to stop you because you look the part, but to allow them to ask for papers when investigating other issues such as traffic stops. What is wrong with that?? If you are here illegally, then you have something to worry about. America is sick and tired to footing the bill for every Tom, Dick and Carlos that decides to jump the fence.
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I knew a moron would bite and drag Arizona into this.
Hey, idiota, police brutality has been a reality before Arizona passed its law. And that law is not going to result in sudden national surge of excessive force by police against CITIZENS of USA.
I am sure, all of the sudden, there will be a sudden flood of this types of videos in order to try to discredit Arizona and keep other states from adopting the measure. Nothing out of the ordinary, but the media will make it look like cops are all of the sudden wilding out. Just look at Perth Amboy, NJ. Their police department has been doing this for decades.
Dario,
Why so angry? Do you hate Latinos too? Clearly this cop is a racist who hates Mexicans and everyone he has "reasonable suspicion" is a Mexican. ;)
Now, tell me this Dario: What other existing law would allow for police brutality to end up with the detention and possibly even the deportation of a Latino American citizen who happens to have forgotten his wallet at home? You think racist cops like this one in Seattle won't jump to the opportunity to have innocent Latino American citizens detained and deported?
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No, but you implied this was strictly a racist bill. It's a bill that enforces the federal laws. It is 18 pages long. It does not allow police to stop you because you look the part, but to allow them to ask for papers when investigating other issues such as traffic stops. What is wrong with that?? If you are here illegally, then you have something to worry about. America is sick and tired to footing the bill for every Tom, Dick and Carlos that decides to jump the fence.
So what if I did? I wouldn't be the only one:
In Arizona, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who has been a cop for 52 years, says it will definitely lead to racial profiling. He told local TV station KGUN9 that the law is “racist,” “digusting,” and “unnecessary,” and he won’t enforce it. While the law may not explicitly mandate profiling, Dupnik said that there’s no way to enforce it without doing so; the “lawful contact” provision will become nothing but a “flimsy excuse” to target certain people.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/arizona-sheriff-clarence-dupnik-will-no
I agree with Sheriff Clarence Dupnik!
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Whatever, there is always one person to complain. 70% of the population wants it since they see the disaster illegals have brought to AZ.
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Dario,
Why so angry? Do you hate Latinos too? Clearly this cop is a racist who hates Mexicans and everyone he has "reasonable suspicion" is a Mexican. ;)
Now, tell me this Dario: What other existing law would allow for police brutality to end up with the detention and possibly even the deportation of a Latino American citizen who happens to have forgotten his wallet at home? You think racist cops like this one in Seattle won't jump to the opportunity to have innocent Latino American citizens detained and deported?
How would an innocent LEGAL immigrant be deported.What are you talking about?
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so was this guy illegal?
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How would an innocent LEGAL immigrant be deported.What are you talking about?
Group says U.S. citizen wrongly deported to Mexico
Mon, Jun 11 2007
By Kemp Powers
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The American Civil Liberties Union sued the U.S. government on Monday over what the rights group said was the wrongful deportation of a developmentally disabled U.S. citizen who is now missing in Mexico.
ACLU spokesman Michael Soller said 29-year-old Pedro Guzman was serving a 120-day sentence in a Los Angeles jail for trespassing when he was deported to Tijuana, Mexico, on May 10 or May 11 for an alleged immigration violation.
The group's suit filed in U.S. District Court seeks to have the deportation order suspended and for the U.S. government to help locate Guzman.
Guzman, who was born in Los Angeles and lived about 70 miles north in Lancaster with his mother, could barely read and write, Soller said. He did not know his phone number and kept his brother's telephone number on a piece of paper.
But the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency in a written statement denied Guzman's deportation, which followed immigration checks at the jail, was improper.
"ICE only processes persons for removal when all available credible evidence suggests the person is an alien," ICE officials said. "That process was followed here and ICE has no reason to believe that it improperly removed Pedro Guzman."
The ACLU said Guzman told booking officers that he was born in California.
"This is a recurring nightmare for every person of color of immigrant roots," Mark Rosenbaum, the legal director of the ACLU in southern California, said in a statement.
The only telephone call Guzman made came shortly after his deportation, on May 11 and was received by his sister in law, Soller said.
"The last thing she heard him do was ask someone nearby 'Where am I?' and then the line went dead," Soller said. Guzman has not been heard from since and is assumed lost in Mexico.
Members of Guzman's family, including his mother, brother and sister in law, have traveled to Tijuana and searched shelters, jails and hospitals trying to find him.
"We're asking the U.S. government to take responsibility for finding him," Soller said. "The family just wants him back."
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1118919320070611
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U.S. Government Detaining, Deporting U.S. Citizens
Tuesday June 10, 2008
Peter Guzman was scheduled to be the best man at his brother's wedding in July 2007, but he never made it. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had deported Guzman, a U.S. citizen and second-generation Mexican-American immigrant, as an "illegal alien."
Bettina Casares, a U.S. citizen and Air Force veteran, faced similar treatment in 2003 as she was assaulted and detained by Border Patrol agents while trying to return to the United States after visiting her family in Mexico over the Easter holiday. (Casares later filed suit, winning an undisclosed settlement.)
Guzman and Casares are among the thousands of U.S. citizens of Latino ancestry detained or deported annually by agents of the U.S. Border Patrol and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. As Jacqueline Stevens writes in The Nation:
... California Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren calls Guzman the "poster child" for an epidemic of detaining and deporting US citizens by ICE. Kara Hartzler, an attorney at the Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project (FIRRP), agrees with Lofgren. Last year Hartzler's staff of six attorneys provided presentations and occasionally individual advice to more than 8,000 detainees in southern Arizona ... Hartzler testified, "The deportation of US citizens is not happening monthly, or weekly, but every day."
ICE does not keep records on cases in which detainees claim to be US citizens. If larger trends are consistent with the pattern in Hartzler's caseload, since 2004 ICE has held between 3,500 and 10,000 US citizens in detention facilities and deported about half ...
I called fifteen private immigration attorneys whose names appear on a Justice Department list of pro bono attorneys in Los Angeles and left messages asking whether they had clients in the past three years who were US citizens held in ICE detention for at least one month. Seven of them called back, each describing one to four clients who meet these criteria ...
Since the state does not guarantee legal representation in civil cases, 90 to 95 percent of detainees lack attorneys.
Nor is the federal government the only offender. Local ordinances are frequently written in manner that encourages local officials and private citizens to indiscriminately target Latino residents, regardless of immigration status. The Hazleton Ordinance, for example, used a definition of illegal status so broad that it actually includes some U.S. citizens and legal residents. The Pahrump Ordinance targeted any celebration of Latin American heritage that permits participants to fly the flag of another nation. The proposed Bogota Ordinance would have prohibited the use of Spanish in advertisements and certain other printed materials. I could go on.
And the hostility towards "illegal immigrants" has also encouraged vigilantism against Latinos by white nationalists. As the Southern Poverty Law Center reports:
The number of hate groups operating in the United States has grown to 888 — a staggering 48 percent increase since 2000, driven largely by anti-immigrant hysteria. And since the spring of 2005, some 300 new immigration restriction groups, including border vigilantes like the Minutemen and organizations that exist simply to harass Latino immigrants, have sprung up across the country. Of that number, 144 are listed as "nativist extremist" groups — organizations that do not merely seek to change immigration policy, but actively confront or harass individuals who they believe are undocumented.
Even anti-immigrant groups that don't necessarily identify as white nationalist organizations tend to make common cause with groups that do. In 2006, for example, the director of Border Guardians recruited neo-Nazis to rob, beat, harass, and otherwise intimidate Latinos. (One suggestion pulled from the email: "Discourage Spanish-speaking children from going to school. Be creative.")
This hostility--from federal and local governments, from hate groups, and from private citizens--is having a noticeable impact on the lives of Americans of Latino ancestry. As I wrote back in December:
According to a new study by the Pew Hispanic Center, 64 percent of U.S. Latinos say that their lives have been made harder by the immigration debate. (About 75 percent of Latinos are in this country legally; undocumented immigrants make up only 12 million of the 47-million-strong Latino population.) And over the past year, the percentage of Latinos who say that they, their families, or their close friends have been victimized by discrimination has increased from 31 percent to 41 percent.
These statistics are corroborated by FBI data indicating that hate crimes against Latinos have increased by 35 percent over the past four years.
These abuses underscore the need for calm, humane immigration reform that rejects policies of mass deportation. Even if the deportation of 12 million people could be justified on the basis of paperwork violations, it's almost certain that, given the abuses inherent in the limited anti-immigration statutes we already have, a more ambitious policy would have an even more drastic, and harmful, effect on American Latinos.
http://civilliberty.about.com/b/2008/06/10/us-government-detaining-deporting-us-citizens.htm
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U.S. citizen's near-deportation not a rarity
A zeal to nab illegal immigrants ensnares many innocent people, including a Minnesota native.
By MARISA TAYLOR, McClatchy News Service
Last update: January 26, 2008 - 8:09 PM
FLORENCE, ARIZ. - Thomas Warziniack was born in Minnesota and grew up in Georgia, but immigration authorities pronounced him an illegal immigrant from Russia.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement has held Warziniack for weeks in an Arizona detention facility with the aim of deporting him to a country he's never seen. His jailers shrugged off Warziniack's claims that he was an American citizen, even though they could have retrieved his Minnesota birth certificate in minutes and even though a Colorado court had concluded that he was a U.S. citizen a year before it shipped him to Arizona.
On Thursday, Warziniack finally became a free man. Immigration officials released him after his family, who learned about his predicament from a reporter, produced a birth certificate and after a U.S. senator demanded his release.
"The immigration agents told me they never make mistakes," Warziniack said in an earlier phone interview from jail. "All I know is that somebody dropped the ball."
Not an isolated case
The story of how immigration officials decided that a small-town drifter with a Southern accent was an illegal Russian immigrant illustrates how the federal government mistakenly detains and sometimes deports American citizens.
U.S. citizens who are mistakenly jailed by immigration authorities can get caught up in a nightmarish bureaucratic tangle in which they're simply not believed.
An unpublished study by the Vera Institute of Justice, a New York nonprofit organization, in 2006 identified 125 people in immigration detention centers across the nation who immigration lawyers believed had valid U.S. citizenship claims.
Nina Siulc, the lead researcher, said she thinks that many more American citizens probably are being erroneously detained or deported every year because her assessment looked at only a small number of those in custody. Each year, about 280,000 people are held on immigration violations at 15 federal detention centers and more than 400 state and local contract facilities nationwide.
Unlike suspects charged in criminal courts, detainees accused of immigration violations don't have a right to an attorney, and three-quarters of them represent themselves.
"It becomes your word against the government's, even when you know and insist that you're a U.S. citizen," Siulc said. "Your word doesn't always count, and the government doesn't always investigate fully."
Officials with ICE, the federal agency that oversees deportations, maintain that such cases are isolated because agents are required to obtain sufficient evidence that someone is an illegal immigrant before making an arrest. However, they don't track the number of U.S. citizens who are detained or deported.
"We don't want to detain or deport U.S. citizens," said Ernestine Fobbs, an ICE spokeswoman. "It's just not something we do."
While immigration advocates agree that the agents generally release detainees before deportation in clear-cut cases, they said that ICE sometimes ignores valid assertions of citizenship in the rush to ship out more illegal immigrants.
http://www.startribune.com/nation/14456137.html?page=1&c=y
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again...was this victim an illegal?
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Whatever, there is always one person to complain. 70% of the population wants it since they see the disaster illegals have brought to AZ.
It's more than just a complaint. Latino American citizens in Arizona are afraid, with good reason.
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again...was this victim an illegal?
Who are you asking? I don't think we know whether or not the victim is illegal. We don't even know if he is Mexican. He just looked Mexican to the racist cop.
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Guess what - 70% of the population are scared of what the criminal illegal aliens have brought to AZ as well.
Illegals kill more people every year than were killed in 911.
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im asking because "illegal" was envoked in this thread...and if he is here legally then it the issue shouldnt even be noted as it takes away from the real issue which is this cops racists behavior and tries to divert attention with the "well if he was here legally it wouldnt have happened" argument that these idiots would use...thats why im asking
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Guess what - 70% of the population are scared of what the criminal illegal aliens have brought to AZ as well.
Illegals kill more people every year than were killed in 911.
And that justifies passing laws that lead to racial profiling, harassing, detaining and possibly deporting innocent American citizens?
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im asking because "illegal" was envoked in this thread...and if he is here legally then it the issue shouldnt even be noted as it takes away from the real issue which is this cops racists behavior and tries to divert attention with the "well if he was here legally it wouldnt have happened" argument that these idiots would use...thats why im asking
Yes, I saw that too. Somebody else brought up illegal immigrants in this thread, long before I posted. Judging from some of the posts in this thread, some people assumed this victim is Mexican and an illegal immigrant.
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No it doesnt, however, almost any law passed trying to curb illegal immigration is going to get classified as racist since the overwhelming percentage of illegals come from Mexico.
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Yes, I saw that too. Somebody else brought up illegal immigrants in this thread, long before I posted. Judging from some of the posts in this thread, some people assumed this victim is Mexican and an illegal immigrant.
On i wasnt asking you personally like i was comin at you...i just wanted to know...because it dosent have anything to do with the actions of this cop...
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On i wasnt asking you personally like i was comin at you...i just wanted to know...because it dosent have anything to do with the actions of this cop...
And the cops where I live throw beat downs and call the guy a pussy and fag. Is that any better than being called another name?
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So what if I did? I wouldn't be the only one:
In Arizona, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who has been a cop for 52 years, says it will definitely lead to racial profiling. He told local TV station KGUN9 that the law is “racist,” “digusting,” and “unnecessary,” and he won’t enforce it. While the law may not explicitly mandate profiling, Dupnik said that there’s no way to enforce it without doing so; the “lawful contact” provision will become nothing but a “flimsy excuse” to target certain people.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/arizona-sheriff-clarence-dupnik-will-no
I agree with Sheriff Clarence Dupnik!
Unfortunately, there is and always will be racial profiling. That should not stop us from applying the lays of the land. It is for our safety, sovernty, and economic stability.
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It's more than just a complaint. Latino American citizens in Arizona are afraid, with good reason.
If they are illegal, they should be.
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If they are illegal, they should be.
How is an American citizen in the US illegal?
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Hypothetically - what if the guy said he just drank 6 coronas and then the cop said this?
He would be ok no?
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No, but you implied this was strictly a racist bill. It's a bill that enforces the federal laws. It is 18 pages long. It does not allow police to stop you because you look the part, but to allow them to ask for papers when investigating other issues such as traffic stops. What is wrong with that??
Looking the part? That's exactly what racial profiling is dude?
If you get stopped and you "look" like an illegal you can be asked to show your papers?
What if all of a sudden we made REAL sense and remembered that all people here illegally didn't come from the south of Mexico.... How about those illegal Irish people?
Wait... Then every white person would have to carry something showing them to be a citizen? Does this mean I need to carry my birth certificate around with me?
Doesn't make sense? You're right... It really doesn't.
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Hypothetically - what if the guy said he just drank 6 coronas and then the cop said this?
He would be ok no?
he would be wrong to beat an innocent man. period
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he would be wrong to beat an innocent man. period
Actually, the bigger question is not is the guy innocent or guilty, but why are you beating a man who's down and on the ground and already subdued.
Another thing to bring up would be whether or not the guy had the impression he was under arrest. There is a lot of legal precedent about people who believe they are under arrest even if they are not told so.
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Actually, the bigger question is not is the guy innocent or guilty, but why are you beating a man who's down and on the ground and already subdued.
Another thing to bring up would be whether or not the guy had the impression he was under arrest. There is a lot of legal precedent about people who believe they are under arrest even if they are not told so.
Oh agree with you there...But the fools here will say "well if he didnt dont do nothing then it wouldnt have happened.." totally discounting our system on one end..but want the system to run smooth on the other end
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I assume 99% of cops do this so this is not surprising.
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I assume 99% of cops do this so this is not surprising.
If that's the assumption, then we shouldn't have cops at all.
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I assume 99% of cops do this so this is not surprising.
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I assume? Hmm..You are giving your assumption an affirmative property arent you?
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So let me see,you put articles up that happened WAY before this law passed.So what is your complaint again?With the scruitiny this law is getting they wont dare make a mistake.You should be celebrating the law.
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So let me see,you put articles up that happened WAY before this law passed.So what is your complaint again?With the scruitiny this law is getting they wont dare make a mistake.You should be celebrating the law.
Though the Arizona immigration law passed, it has not yet gone into effect.
The articles that I posted above are in response to your question:
How would an innocent LEGAL immigrant be deported.What are you talking about?
All a cop in Arizona has to do is confuse an innocent Latino American citizen with a criminal, just like what happened in Seattle. The cop will then ask for proof of citizenship since this guy looks like a "Fucking Mexican." If this American citizen happens to have forgotten his wallet at home, or if his wallet just got stolen, the cops won't believe this "Fucking Mexican" and will turn him in to Homeland Security who will detain him for a while and then deport him, just like in the articles that I posted.
Even if the guy is just detained By Homeland Security for a while and then released, he and his family will suffer. He may lose his job too for disappearing for days without calling.
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Though the Arizona immigration law passed, it has not yet gone into effect.
The articles that I posted above are in response to your question:
All a cop in Arizona has to do is confuse an innocent Latino American citizen with a criminal, just like what happened in Seattle. The cop will then ask for proof of citizenship since this guy looks like a "Fucking Mexican." If this American citizen happens to have forgotten his wallet at home, or if his wallet just got stolen, the cops won't believe this "Fucking Mexican" and will turn him in to Homeland Security who will detain him for a while and then deport him, just like in the articles that I posted.
Even if the guy is just detained By Homeland Security for a while and then released, he and his family will suffer. He may lose his job too for disappearing for days without calling.
WRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! again youve shown that you know nothing about this law you are so vehimently against...
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WRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! again youve shown that you know nothing about this law you are so vehimently against...
I'm wrong? Really? Tell me, how am I wrong?
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scared with good reason??? loco have you ever been to arizona and any of the smaller towns or cities? 99.99999% of law enforcement are latino. Are latinos being racist to other latinos? I go through this state many times a year. I said what i said because I have seen it for myself and have observed the police along with many other public service in that state, who are latino, not from watching t.v. like many who assume this is a racist law. Too bad florida isnt doing this same law, and it was the haitians that were the majority that make up the illegal problem. that way all these cry baby ass latinos would see is not just about them.
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scared with good reason??? loco have you ever been to arizona and any of the smaller towns or cities? 99.99999% of law enforcement are latino. Are latinos being racist to other latinos? I go through this state many times a year. I said what i said because I have seen it for myself and have observed the police along with many other public service in that state, who are latino, not from watching t.v. like many who assume this is a racist law. Too bad florida isnt doing this same law, and it was the haitians that were the majority that make up the illegal problem. that way all these cry baby ass latinos would see is not just about them.
99.99999% of law enforcement in Arizona are Latino? Really? Got any sources to back that up? You came up with that figure by eye balling the state?
Two thirds of Arizona's population are Non-Hispanic White Americans, while only one third of the population are Latinos. So I seriously doubt your figures about Arizona's law enforcement demographics is anywhere close to accurate.
And by the way, only 7.9% of the population in Arizona are estimated to be illegal immigrants.
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=Search&geo_id=&_geoContext=&_street=&_county=&_cityTown=&_state=04000US04&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/29/AR2010042904970.html?sid=ST2010042905051
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/How-immigration-crackdowns-backfire-91842259.html
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99.99999% of law enforcement in Arizona are Latino? Really? Got any sources to back that up? You came up with that figure by eye balling the state?
Two thirds of Arizona's population are Non-Hispanic White Americans, while only one third of the population are Latinos. So I seriously doubt your figures about Arizona's law enforcement demographics is anywhere close to accurate.
And by the way, only 7.9% of the population in Arizona are estimated to be illegal immigrants.
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=Search&geo_id=&_geoContext=&_street=&_county=&_cityTown=&_state=04000US04&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/29/AR2010042904970.html?sid=ST2010042905051
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/How-immigration-crackdowns-backfire-91842259.html
Check and mate
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I'm wrong? Really? Tell me, how am I wrong?
you act as if they take you from your car and deport you if you cant produce papers... ::)
the police as I have heard it report the person to ICE and ICE begins steps to deport...meaning they dont detain you indefinitely until they deport you...you have many opportunities to prove your citizenship
by your logic we shouldnt convict anyone for crimes b/c we do sometimes convict innocent ppl...you dont throw out the entire system, you work to limit the mistakes
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you act as if they take you from your car and deport you if you cant produce papers... ::)
the police as I have heard it report the person to ICE and ICE begins steps to deport...meaning they dont detain you indefinitely until they deport you...you have many opportunities to prove your citizenship
by your logic we shouldnt convict anyone for crimes b/c we do sometimes convict innocent ppl...you dont throw out the entire system, you work to limit the mistakes
tonymctones,
Please post a link to an official source describing in detail ICE deportation procedure!
You apparently completely ignored the several articles I posted showing that American citizens have been deported.
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tonymctones,
Please post a link to an official source describing in detail ICE deportation procedure!
You apparently completely ignored the several articles I posted showing that American citizens have been deported.
LMAO Im not debating whether or not american citizens have been accidentally deported from time to time just like you cant deny that innocent citizens have been convicted of crimes they didnt commit from time to time...you think we should stop prosecuting laws too? ::)
my statement was in regards to your post about this bill and how this bills operates and your misleading BS...
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LMAO Im not debating whether or not american citizens have been accidentally deported from time to time just like you cant deny that innocent citizens have been convicted of crimes they didnt commit from time to time...you think we should stop prosecuting laws too? ::)
my statement was in regards to your post about this bill and how this bills operates and your misleading BS...
It happens a lot more often then you think. Read the articles. And I am not misleading. I wish you were right and I was wrong. I have posted links to sources to back up my concerns. If I'm wrong, just show me. You keep saying things like "from what I have heard", "from what I have seen", "the way I understand it."
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I'm still confused as to how this law is any different than the Federal one on the books.
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It happens a lot more often then you think. Read the articles. And I am not misleading. I wish you were right and I was wrong. I have posted links to sources to back up my concerns. If I'm wrong, just show me. You keep saying things like "from what I have heard", "from what I have seen", "the way I understand it."
LOL dude when you enforce any law you will always convict ppl who arent guilty, are you for the repeal of all laws or just this one? and why or why not
you have shown where one citizen has been deported by this bill, youre using incidents that used different procedures to prove that this procedure is faulty...do you not see the idiocy of that?
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I'm still confused as to how this law is any different than the Federal one on the books.
I dont think there is much of a difference now, before the changes I think this bill was a little far reaching and even I said it needed to be tightened up
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LOL dude when you enforce any law you will always convict ppl who arent guilty, are you for the repeal of all laws or just this one? and why or why not
you have shown where one citizen has been deported by this bill, youre using incidents that used different procedures to prove that this procedure is faulty...do you not see the idiocy of that?
Lot of people have been wrongfully convicted of murder or rape. Maybe we should legalize murder and rape to avoid that happening.
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Lot of people have been wrongfully convicted of murder or rape. Maybe we should legalize murder and rape to avoid that happening.
Exactly according to loco's logic we should throw out the entire system instead of trying to limit the mistakes...
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LOL dude when you enforce any law you will always convict ppl who arent guilty, are you for the repeal of all laws or just this one? and why or why not
you have shown where one citizen has been deported by this bill, youre using incidents that used different procedures to prove that this procedure is faulty...do you not see the idiocy of that?
I've shown where one citizen has been deported? Only one? ::) Please go back and read the several articles I posted.
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I've shown where one citizen has been deported? Only one? ::) Please go back and read the several articles I posted.
A lot of people have been falsely convicted of crimes like rape and murder. Should rape and murder be legalized to prevent this?
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How is an American citizen in the US illegal?
They're not. If you are legal, you have nothing to worry about. This is the same BS we heard when Bush passed the Patriot Act. They will listen to our phone calls, waa waa waaaaaa... No, unless you are calling Osama Bin Laden, then you have nothing to worry about.
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A lot of people have been falsely convicted of crimes like rape and murder. Should rape and murder be legalized to prevent this?
Those laws don't target Latinos.
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I've shown where one citizen has been deported? Only one? ::) Please go back and read the several articles I posted.
im sorry it was a typo i meant to say that you havent shown where one person has been deported using this law and its procedures...youve shown how other procedures have accidentally deported ppl but again all laws convict innocent ppl from time to time, you DO NOT SCRAP THE ENTIRE SYSTEM, YOU TRY TO MINIMIZE THE MISTAKES...
you cant point to failures in other procedures to condemn this bills procedure b/c they are different PROCEDURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Those laws don't target Latinos.
youre right they target murders and rapists...just like this bill targets illegal immigrants
blacks could say that murder laws target blacks since the majority of murders are commited by blacks but that wouldnt make it true...JUST LIKE YOUR STATEMENTS!!!!!!!!! ;)
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Those laws don't target Latinos.
You didn't answer my question. I'll ask again. A lot of people are falsely convicted of rape and murder. Should rape and murder be legalized to prevent this?
By the way, saying that those laws don't target latinos implies that latinos are more important than American citizens. Not that I didn't already know you thought that. ;)
im sorry it was a typo i meant to say that you havent shown where one person has been deported using this law and its procedures...youve shown how other procedures have accidentally deported ppl but again all laws convict innocent ppl from time to time, you DO NOT SCRAP THE ENTIRE SYSTEM, YOU TRY TO MINIMIZE THE MISTAKES...
you cant point to failures in other procedures to condemn this bills procedure b/c they are different PROCEDURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He just argued that a few incidents of American citizens being kidnapped due to mistaken identity or whatever isn't a problem yet a few incidents of Americans being mistakenly deported is. What a pathetic double standard.
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im sorry it was a typo i meant to say that you havent shown where one person has been deported using this law and its procedures...youve shown how other procedures have accidentally deported ppl but again all laws convict innocent ppl from time to time, you DO NOT SCRAP THE ENTIRE SYSTEM, YOU TRY TO MINIMIZE THE MISTAKES...
you cant point to failures in other procedures to condemn this bills procedure b/c they are different PROCEDURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This new law hasn't gone into effect yet. According to you, if a cop has reasonable suspicion that an American citizen is an illegal immigrant, and asks him for paper, and he doesn't have papers on him, the cop will turn him in to ICE. At that point, ICE follows the same detention and deportation procedures that got all these other American citizens deported. Only difference is that now it will happen much more often once the cops start to enforce this new law.
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This new law hasn't gone into effect yet. According to you, if a cop has reasonable suspicion that an American citizen is an illegal immigrant, and asks him for paper, and he doesn't have papers on him, the cop will turn him in to ICE. At that point, ICE follows the same detention and deportation procedures that got all these other American citizens deported. Only difference is that now it will happen much more often once the cops start to enforce this new law.
again its "probable cause" not reasonable suspicion try to keep up with the facts...
they have mutiple opportunities to prove they are citizens its not like they throw you over the border the instant you cant prove it
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youre right they target murders and rapists...just like this bill targets illegal immigrants
blacks could say that murder laws target blacks since the majority of murders are commited by blacks but that wouldnt make it true...JUST LIKE YOUR STATEMENTS!!!!!!!!! ;)
I would really like you to understand this statement loco...
why do yo think that this bill targets latinos?
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You didn't answer my question. I'll ask again. A lot of people are falsely convicted of rape and murder. Should rape and murder be legalized to prevent this?
By the way, saying that those laws don't target latinos implies that latinos are more important than American citizens. Not that I didn't already know you thought that. ;)
No, rape and murder should not be legalized to prevent that. The system and laws need to be improved to prevent this. It doesn't justify passing new laws that target a certain race or ethnic group.
Latino American citizens are American citizens. ::)
He just argued that a few incidents of American citizens being kidnapped due to mistaken identity or whatever isn't a problem yet a few incidents of Americans being mistakenly deported is. What a pathetic double standard.
I never said the kidnappings of American citizens, or anybody for that matter, is not a problem. I said one American citizen accidentally being kidnapped does not justify passing new laws that target a certain race or ethnic group of American citizens.
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youre right they target murders and rapists...just like this bill targets illegal immigrants
blacks could say that murder laws target blacks since the majority of murders are commited by blacks but that wouldnt make it true...JUST LIKE YOUR STATEMENTS!!!!!!!!! ;)
Loco moco. Please address this very important point made by tonymctones.
Do you understand what he is stating here or do you need me to draw you pictures?
Let me know. I am here to help.
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why do you keep saying this targets a race or ethnicity?
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again its "probable cause" not reasonable suspicion try to keep up with the facts...
Okay. Define "probable cause."
they have mutiple opportunities to prove they are citizens its not like they throw you over the border the instant you cant prove it
No they don't. ::)
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like i said loco you go read your polls and watch your t.v. i travel for a living and go all over that state and know what i see , you see what news outlets and papers and congress people let you to see!!! so go ahead and stay in your lil fairy lala land ruled by people that want to decieve and lie to you. once you take a strole through there and see for your self then you can talk about reality
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Loco moco. Please address this very important point made by tonymctones.
Do you understand what he is stating here or do you need me to draw you pictures?
Let me know. I am here to help.
I will gladly do so once you address a couple of posts from me to you, which you ran away from. ::)
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I will gladly do so once you address a couple of posts from me to you, which you ran away from. ::)
I havent run away from any of your posts so please address it for me 8)
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like i said loco you go read your polls and watch your t.v. i travel for a living and go all over that state and know what i see , you see what news outlets and papers and congress people let you to see!!! so go ahead and stay in your lil fairy lala land ruled by people that want to decieve and lie to you. once you take a strole through there and see for your self then you can talk about reality
I asked you for something that is very simple. Can you show me how the Arizona law enforcement is 99.9999999% Latino when only one third of Arizona's population is Latino?
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Maybe he thought if he kicked him candy would come out?
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Okay. Define "probable cause."
No they don't. ::)
from my understanding thats still being developed...
YES THEY DO ::)
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no loco i dont want to take time out of my day to prove something to you, i know what my self and the team i travel with have observed, nor am i a stat expert, 99.9999 was not literal, i thought people here were smart enough to put that together, however, looking around while in that state you dont ever see many non latino officers, so are they racist towards other latinos? but loco why do you put soooo much faith in stats or what t.v. says??? they only tell you what they want you to know.. you really should remember that when making observations of things. next time i go to ar. i am going to count every cop i can see and document , latino or non latino and i will send you that stat, hows that???
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let me give you something to think about loco, equal opp employers have certain numbers they have to meet in terms of percentage of males females blacks whites latino ect. now do you think it would be reported truthfully if there was 95% latinos, 2.5% black and 2.5% white?? hell no.... just like haloberton, there are not near as many blacks working for that company as their statistics say there are that they give to the government, they LIE to get by. now these stats you speak of, is it just totaly impossible that they are not fudged to look better to the government?? let me guess your answer,, heavens no.
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from my understanding thats still being developed...
::)
The suspect looks Latino and illegal
YES THEY DO ::)
No they don't. You have no clue what ICE deportation procedures are.
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::)
The suspect looks Latino and illegal
No they don't. You have no clue what ICE deportation procedures are.
please enlighten me then...
while youre at it respond to this post
youre right they target murders and rapists...just like this bill targets illegal immigrants
blacks could say that murder laws target blacks since the majority of murders are commited by blacks but that wouldnt make it true...JUST LIKE YOUR STATEMENTS!!!!!!!!! ;)
again i really want to make sure you understand this and the reasons that you think this law targets latinos...
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Okay. Define "probable cause."
The most well-known definition of probable cause is "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime".[1] Another common definition is "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true".[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause
Reasonable suspicion:
Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard in United States law that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity based on specific and articulable facts and inferences. It is the basis for an investigatory or Terry stop by the police and requires less evidence than probable cause, the legal requirement for arrests and warrants. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch. Police may also, based solely on reasonable suspicion of a threat to safety, frisk a suspect for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. A combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous, can form the basis of reasonable suspicion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion
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The most well-known definition of probable cause is "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime".[1] Another common definition is "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true".[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause
What gives a cop "a reasonable belief that a person" is an illegal immigrant? What circumstances would be sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious cop's belief that a person is an illegal immigrant? I have yet to hear anyone in law enforcement answer this.
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youre right they target murders and rapists...just like this bill targets illegal immigrants
blacks could say that murder laws target blacks since the majority of murders are commited by blacks but that wouldnt make it true...JUST LIKE YOUR STATEMENTS!!!!!!!!! ;)
LOCO, do you understand this?
why do you think this law targets latinos?
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LOCO, do you understand this?
why do you think this law targets latinos?
Not a good analogy or comparison. The law punishes those who murder and rape once they have evidence to convict them.
How can a cop tell that a person is an illegal immigrant without racial profiling?
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Not a good analogy or comparison. The law punishes those who murder and rape once they have evidence to convict them.
How can a cop tell that a person is an illegal immigrant without racial profiling?
LMAO simple by not taking race into account... ::)
its a perfectly fine analogy those laws target murderers and rapists, this law targets illegals
it just so happens that the majority of murderers are black and the majority of illegals are hispanic, how does one target latinos but the other not target blacks?
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Not a good analogy or comparison. The law punishes those who murder and rape once they have evidence to convict them.
How can a cop tell that a person is an illegal immigrant without racial profiling?
the law punishes these ppl after they have evidence they are not citizen...whats the difference both punish after the fact...
this is why i want you to talk about this loco you have a horrible misunderstanding again I think based in bias that leads you to inaccurate statements...
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the law punishes these ppl after they have evidence they are not citizen...whats the difference both punish after the fact...
this is why i want you to talk about this loco you have a horrible misunderstanding again I think based in bias that leads you to inaccurate statements...
No. The law punishes those the cops believe to be illegal immigrants, whether they are American citizens or not, and are not carrying papers. American citizens are not required to carry papers.
See the thread "Determining who's illegal by their attire."
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What gives a cop "a reasonable belief that a person" is an illegal immigrant? What circumstances would be sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious cop's belief that a person is an illegal immigrant? I have yet to hear anyone in law enforcement answer this.
One example is the person cannot speak English and has no identification, which law enforcement discovers after stopping the person for suspicion of a crime being committed. I'd have a reasonable suspicion that the person may be illegal under those circumstances.
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No. The law punishes those the cops believe to be illegal immigrants, whether they are American citizens or not, and are not carrying papers. American citizens are not required to carry papers.
See the thread "Determining who's illegal by their attire."
LOL the punishment comes after the fact that they are deemed illegal...by your logic questioning a person for murder is punishment... ::)
your double standard is freaking hillarious bro... ::)
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One example is the person cannot speak English and has no identification, which law enforcement discovers after stopping the person for suspicion of a crime being committed. I'd have a reasonable suspicion that the person may be illegal under those circumstances.
I know plenty of American citizens, both Latino and Asian, who can't speak English. American citizens are not required to speak English or carry papers.
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LOL the punishment comes after the fact that they are deemed illegal...by your logic questioning a person for murder is punishment... ::)
your double standard is freaking hillarious bro... ::)
Questioning American citizens for papers, because of "the way they dress" or because of "their speech", then detaining and deporting them for not having papers is a world of difference from questioning a person for murder. American citizens are not required to carry papers.
See the thread "Determining who's illegal by their attire."
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Loco, can you tell me where in that law it says they're allowed to walk up and randomly question people on the street? ;)
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Loco, can you tell me where in that law it says they're allowed to walk up and randomly question people on the street? ;)
When did I say that Arizona's new immigration law says that law enforcement are allowed to walk up and randomly question people on the street?
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When did I say that Arizona's new immigration law says that law enforcement are allowed to walk up and randomly question people on the street?
You seem to have a hard time staying on point.
Questioning American citizens for papers, because of "the way they dress" or because of "their speech", then detaining and deporting them for not having papers is a world of difference from questioning a person for murder. American citizens are not required to carry papers.
See the thread "Determining who's illegal by their attire."
Are you not implying that people on the street will be randomly approached and asked for their papers with this statement?
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You seem to have a hard time staying on point.
Are you not implying that people on the street will be randomly approached and asked for their papers with this statement?
No
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No
Haha, OK. So you don't think anyone arrested of a crime should be checked for legal status in the country? With or without this law, checking whether someone is a legal resident or not should be proper procedure for anyone suspected of committing a crime. ::)
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Haha, OK. So you don't think anyone arrested of a crime should be checked for legal status in the country? With or without this law, checking whether someone is a legal resident or not should be proper procedure for anyone suspected of committing a crime. ::)
So you do think that ALL American citizens "questioned" for any crime, whether they committed it or not, should also be questioned about their status in the US and required to produce papers?
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I will gladly do so once you address a couple of posts from me to you, which you ran away from. ::)
I will respond to you like I have done other times.
What points did you make that were worthy of even addressing? All your posts are pure speculations and misinterpretations of the Arizona law. The law is not in effect yet you know for a FACT that legal citizens will be deported without any due process or opportunity to show that they are legal. As if they are just going to round up huge groups of people and just dump them accross the border. You have no facts that this will happen, but it doesn't stop you from repeating the same garbage.
Now, in this thread, you stated that LATINOS are the main target of this law. This law applies to all ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Whether they be latino, asians, eastern europeans, africans, from the caribbean, etc. This law doesn't distinguish one from the other. It just so happens that in Arizona, most of the criminals are from central and south america. You just keep showing your ignorance. You don't know anything about the law but you feel the need to make stupid comments about it because most of your family are criminals. They are here illegally.
Make a logical and truthful statement about the law. Until then, there is no need to respond to your foolishness.
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I will respond to you like I have done other times.
What points did you make that were worthy of even addressing? All your posts are pure speculations and misinterpretations of the Arizona law. The law is not in effect yet you know for a FACT that legal citizens will be deported without any due process or opportunity to show that they are legal. As if they are just going to round up huge groups of people and just dump them accross the border. You have no facts that this will happen, but it doesn't stop you from repeating the same garbage.
Now, in this thread, you stated that LATINOS are the main target of this law. This law applies to all ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Whether they be latino, asians, eastern europeans, africans, from the caribbean, etc. This law doesn't distinguish one from the other. It just so happens that in Arizona, most of the criminals are from central and south america. You just keep showing your ignorance. You don't know anything about the law but you feel the need to make stupid comments about it because most of your family are criminals. They are here illegally.
Make a logical and truthful statement about the law. Until then, there is no need to respond to your foolishness.
Dario,
Why do you keep on resorting to name calling and insults? Is it because you have no good arguments? Most of my family are criminals? ::)
ICE already deports lawful American citizens way too frequently.
With this new law, cops who question American citizens about their status in the country can turn them in to ICE for detention and deportation if they do not produce papers.
Law enforcement from Arizona have already gone on record saying that they'll be looking at their appearance, clothes, accent, etc.
Most of the criminals in Arizona are from South America? Where did you get this from and can you show any sources to back that up?
You are showing your ignorance and how little you know about your own country's law. Why do you keep posting if you don't intend to respond to me? ::)
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Questioning American citizens for papers, because of "the way they dress" or because of "their speech", then detaining and deporting them for not having papers is a world of difference from questioning a person for murder. American citizens are not required to carry papers.
See the thread "Determining who's illegal by their attire."
youre not addressing my points or questions
lets go with this
why do you think this law targets latinos?
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So you do think that ALL American citizens "questioned" for any crime, whether they committed it or not, should also be questioned about their status in the US and required to produce papers?
What's "questioned"? If you mean running their SS number, license or whatever and corroborating that with the information they gave at the beginning of the incident, then yes, they should do that. Who the fuck wouldn't run someone's information when they were suspected of committing a crime? Given that illegals are constantly using fake IDs, can't even get their information straight and the like, chances are it will be easy to guess who is most likely lying and deserves further analysis. ::)
I wonder if you realize that your entire argument is based on assumption and speculation. You have provided absolutely nothing close to hard evidence. Not only that, but you're making gigantic generalizations to prove your point.
Let me guess, you think cops are going to patrol the streets and start accusing everyone and their mother of committing a crime so they can check to see if they're an illegal? What a crock of shit. ::)
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youre not addressing my points or questions
lets go with this
why do you think this law targets latinos?
Yes, I am addressing your points and questions.
Dario is right in that this law targets not only Latinos, but also Asians and pretty much all non-white foreign looking people. Law enforcement from Arizona have already gone on record saying that they'll be looking at their appearance, clothes, accent, etc.
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What's "questioned"? If you mean running their SS number, license or whatever and corroborating that with the information they gave at the beginning of the incident, then yes, they should do that. Who the fuck wouldn't run someone's information when they were suspected of committing a crime? Given that illegals are constantly using fake IDs, can't even get their information straight and the like, chances are it will be easy to guess who is most likely lying and deserves further analysis. ::)
I wonder if you realize that your entire argument is based on assumption and speculation. You have provided absolutely nothing close to hard evidence. Not only that, but you're making gigantic generalizations to prove your point.
Let me guess, you think cops are going to patrol the streets and start accusing everyone and their mother of committing a crime so they can check to see if they're an illegal? What a crock of shit. ::)
I've provided plenty of evidence that law enforcement, by their own admission, will be looking at physical appearance. I've provided plenty of evidence that American citizens have been detained and deported by ICE.
Look at the beginning of this thread. The innocent guy was thought to be a criminal. Cops kicked him around, then released him when they realized he wasn't the criminal. Under Arizona's new law, he could have been turned in to ICE for detention and deportation had he been an American citizen unable to produce papers.
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I've provided plenty of evidence that law enforcement, by their own admission, will be looking at physical appearance. I've provided plenty of evidence that American citizens have been detained and deported by ICE.
Look at the beginning of this thread. The innocent guy was thought to be a criminal. Cops kicked him around, then released him when they realized he wasn't the criminal. Under Arizona's new law, he could have been turned in to ICE for detention and deportation had he been an American citizen unable to produce papers.
You haven't provided any evidence, just opinions and speculation, that law enforcement will be looking at physical appearance. The only thing I've seen you post is a CALIFORNIA politician's comments regarding that. That and the massive spin job you're pulling on violent crime statistics. ;)
Was this guy at the beginning of the thread in Arizona? No, it was Seattle. More sweeping generalizations and assumptions using an incident that occurred 1,000+ miles away from Arizona. ::)
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You haven't provided any evidence, just opinions and speculation, that law enforcement will be looking at physical appearance. The only thing I've seen you post is a CALIFORNIA politician's comments regarding that. That and the massive spin job you're pulling on violent crime statistics. ;)
Was this guy at the beginning of the thread in Arizona? No, it was Seattle. More sweeping generalizations and assumptions using an incident that occurred 1,000+ miles away from Arizona. ::)
Oh yeah? What about the several articles on ICE deporting American citizens? What about my post showing Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio saying he can spot illegals by the way they dress? ::)
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Yes, I am addressing your points and questions.
Dario is right in that this law targets not only Latinos, but also Asians and pretty much all non-white foreign looking people. Law enforcement from Arizona have already gone on record saying that they'll be looking at their appearance, clothes, accent, etc.
LMAO I LOVE HOW YOU JUST SAID ETC...instead of what it is, hmmm lets see invalid drivers license, no drivers license, no papers, fake papers, fake drivers license....lol that etc. is the most important part hmmmm wonder why you left that out? biased much?
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LMAO I LOVE HOW YOU JUST SAID ETC...instead of what it is, hmmm lets see invalid drivers license, no drivers license, no papers, fake papers, fake drivers license....lol that etc. is the most important part hmmmm wonder why you left that out? biased much?
Hmmm, funny how you change what he said. Hmmm, the most important part? Hmmm, then why did Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio didn't mention that first or say it like you just said it above? ::)
This is what he said: "It has to do with their conduct, what type of clothes they’re wearing, their speech, they admit it, they may have phony IDs. A lot of variables are involved."
Do illegals conduct themselves in a way that American citizens do not? Do illegals wear clothes that American citizens do not? Is the speech of all illegals different than the speech of all American citizens? ::)
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Hmmm, funny how you change what he said. Hmmm, the most important part? Hmmm, then why did Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio didn't mention that first or say it like you just said it above? ::)
This is what he said: "It has to do with their conduct, what type of clothes they’re wearing, their speech, they admit it, they may have phony IDs. A lot of variables are involved."
Do illegals conduct themselves in a way that American citizens do not? Do illegals wear clothes that American citizens do not? Is the speech of all illegals different than the speech of all American citizens? ::)
you answered your own question, he was trying to illustrate that many things come into play
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you answered your own question, he was trying to illustrate that many things come into play
No he wasn't. He and his entire department are already under federal criminal investigation for civil rights violations, in unfairly targeting Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people.
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I know plenty of American citizens, both Latino and Asian, who can't speak English. American citizens are not required to speak English or carry papers.
I've met American citizens who cannot speak English, but they are few and far between. I think any American citizen who can't speak English, doesn't have a driver's license or ID, and is stopped for suspicion of committing a crime, should expect to have their citizenship questioned. If a citizen has a problem with that, he or she should learn the language, get a DL, etc.
And "papers" just means something like a driver's license, which most adult American citizens have. I don't have any citizenship "papers" that I carry on me other than my DL.
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I've met American citizens who cannot speak English, but they are few and far between. I think any American citizen who can't speak English, doesn't have a driver's license or ID, and is stopped for suspicion of committing a crime, should expect to have their citizenship questioned. If a citizen has a problem with that, he or she should learn the language, get a DL, etc.
And "papers" just means something like a driver's license, which most adult American citizens have. I don't have any citizenship "papers" that I carry on me other than my DL.
Some states offer, or used to offer until recently, a drivers test in Spanish. I'm sure they offered it in other languages too.
An American citizen walking outside, whether innocent or not, might be questioned by the police for some crime in the area. See beginning of thread for an example. If the American citizen doesn't have a drivers license on him for whatever reason, he is in trouble. He will be turned in to ICE for detention and possibly even deportation, for not carrying a drivers license on him while walking.
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Some states offer, or used to offer until recently, a drivers test in Spanish. I'm sure they offered it in other languages too.
An American citizen walking outside, whether innocent or not, might be questioned by the police for some crime in the area. See beginning of thread for an example. If the American citizen doesn't have a drivers license on him for whatever reason, he is in trouble. He will be turned in to ICE for detention and possibly even deportation, for not carrying a drivers license on him while walking.
It's unfortunate they offer driver's license tests in anything other than English. For the most part, we don't have street signs in languages other than English, so someone driving who can't either speak or read English is a danger to other drivers.
Loco I'm sure there are examples of law enforcement abusing people's rights and American citizens being unfairly harassed. What I don't see or believe exists is this widespread rounding up and deporting of American citizens. Keep in mind we have over 300 million people in this country.
I don't know precisely what process is involved with deportation, but it can't be as simple as you suggest.
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American Truck Driver Jailed For Not Having Birth Certificate
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PHOENIX -- A 13-year-old west Phoenix girl who was abducted at gunpoint Monday night, then driven around for several hours by her captors before being released, described her ordeal on Tuesday.
"I was thinking, 'Well, I'm gonna die, just die here,'" said Marquesia Thomas.
Phoenix police Sgt. Andy Hill said Thomas was transferred several times from one vehicle to another, and at one point was placed in the trunk of a car. She was threatened repeatedly, said Hill, and hit on the head several times but wasn't seriously injured.
She was released about 2:30 a.m. Tuesday outside a Surprise home.
"They told me, 'You got one second to get out,'" she said. "I jumped out and I jumped to the side of the car because I thought that they were going to shoot me."
After she was released, the teen knocked on several doors until one woman answered her pleas for help.
"I could hear her crying and screaming and she didn't know where she was at," said the woman who did not want to be identified. "So I just let her in."
Hill said the abduction may have been drug-related, but he said Marquesia was an innocent victim and that it may have been a case of mistaken identity.
Police said between three and six armed men snatched the teen from outside a friend's house around 7 p.m. Monday.
"Fear is the first thing that comes over you," said her mother, Michelle. "Then anxiety not knowing where your child is or what's going on. I mean it's a something that no mother should ever have to got through."
Police said there were many witnesses and they are trying to piece together the crime.
http://www.kpho.com/news/15628470/detail.html
Phoenix, Arizona - 2nd highest documented kidnapping rate in the WORLD. :)
And the guy in that youtube video wasn't detained by Arizona LEO, so I don't know why you keep posting it. Sounds like your argument should be with ICE. ;)
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PHOENIX -- A 13-year-old west Phoenix girl who was abducted at gunpoint Monday night, then driven around for several hours by her captors before being released, described her ordeal on Tuesday.
"I was thinking, 'Well, I'm gonna die, just die here,'" said Marquesia Thomas.
Phoenix police Sgt. Andy Hill said Thomas was transferred several times from one vehicle to another, and at one point was placed in the trunk of a car. She was threatened repeatedly, said Hill, and hit on the head several times but wasn't seriously injured.
She was released about 2:30 a.m. Tuesday outside a Surprise home.
"They told me, 'You got one second to get out,'" she said. "I jumped out and I jumped to the side of the car because I thought that they were going to shoot me."
After she was released, the teen knocked on several doors until one woman answered her pleas for help.
"I could hear her crying and screaming and she didn't know where she was at," said the woman who did not want to be identified. "So I just let her in."
Hill said the abduction may have been drug-related, but he said Marquesia was an innocent victim and that it may have been a case of mistaken identity.
Police said between three and six armed men snatched the teen from outside a friend's house around 7 p.m. Monday.
"Fear is the first thing that comes over you," said her mother, Michelle. "Then anxiety not knowing where your child is or what's going on. I mean it's a something that no mother should ever have to got through."
Police said there were many witnesses and they are trying to piece together the crime.
http://www.kpho.com/news/15628470/detail.html
Phoenix, Arizona - 2nd highest documented kidnapping rate in the WORLD. :)
And the guy in that youtube video wasn't detained by Arizona LEO, so I don't know why you keep posting it. Sounds like your argument should be with ICE. ;)
BerzerkFury,
That girl's accidental kidnapping is a tragedy! But why do you care about this girl accidentally being kidnapped while you do not care about the many American citizens who have been wrongly detained and some even deported, accidentally, or because of abused, negligence of authorities and even hate?
Crime rate in Arizona in all other categories has significantly declined compared to the rest of the US, even has legal immigration has increased. Politicians and other people with an agenda like to blame all these kidnappings and Mexican drug violence on illegal migrant workers, and ignorant people buy into this.
Why do you think the mayor of Phoenix strongly opposes Arizona's new immigration law?
http://ricksanchez.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/03/phoenix-mayor-arizona-immigration-law-embarrassing/
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BerzerkFury,
That girl's accidental kidnapping is a tragedy! But why do you care about this girl accidentally being kidnapped while you do not care about the many American citizens who have been wrongly detained and some even deported, accidentally, or because of abused, negligence of authorities and even hate?
Crime rate in Arizona in all other categories has significantly declined compared to the rest of the US, even has legal immigration has increased. Politicians and other people with an agenda like to blame all these kidnappings and Mexican drug violence on illegal migrant workers, and ignorant people buy into this.
Why do you think the mayor of Phoenix strongly opposes Arizona's new immigration law?
http://ricksanchez.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/03/phoenix-mayor-arizona-immigration-law-embarrassing/
Again, it HAPPENS. People are wrongly convicted of murder and rape. Should murder and rape be legalized to prevent that? Fact of the matter is that multiple LEGAL, INNOCENT American citizens have been kidnapped by these fucktards due to cases of mistaken identity or for having money. The fact that you can't walk the streets in Phoenix anymore without the possibility of that happening is a problem.
You keep saying the crime rate has dropped. Show me racial statistics for who is committing what percentage of crimes and the racial statistics broken down crime by crime. I've already posted an example 3 fucking times proving why that is a sweeping generalization and you continually ignore it because you're incapable of refuting it.
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Again, it HAPPENS. People are wrongly convicted of murder and rape. Should murder and rape be legalized to prevent that? Fact of the matter is that multiple LEGAL, INNOCENT American citizens have been kidnapped by these fucktards due to cases of mistaken identity or for having money. The fact that you can't walk the streets in Phoenix anymore without the possibility of that happening is a problem.
You keep saying the crime rate has dropped. Show me racial statistics for who is committing what percentage of crimes and the racial statistics broken down crime by crime. I've already posted an example 3 fucking times proving why that is a sweeping generalization and you continually ignore it because you're incapable of refuting it.
Oh, "it happens." But you won't say that about the girl accidentally kidnapped in Phoenix, not by illegal migrant workers at that. Double standards.
Why do you think the mayor of Phoenix strongly opposes Arizona's new immigration law?
The point is that crime rate declining in Arizona is a fact. Illegal immigration increasing in Arizona is a fact. When people say that illegal migrant workers bring with them a wave of all sorts of serious crimes are simply lying.
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American Truck Driver Jailed For Not Having Birth Certificate
An outrageous abuse of power by law enforcement.
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PHOENIX -- A 13-year-old west Phoenix girl who was abducted at gunpoint Monday night, then driven around for several hours by her captors before being released, described her ordeal on Tuesday.
"I was thinking, 'Well, I'm gonna die, just die here,'" said Marquesia Thomas.
Phoenix police Sgt. Andy Hill said Thomas was transferred several times from one vehicle to another, and at one point was placed in the trunk of a car. She was threatened repeatedly, said Hill, and hit on the head several times but wasn't seriously injured.
She was released about 2:30 a.m. Tuesday outside a Surprise home.
"They told me, 'You got one second to get out,'" she said. "I jumped out and I jumped to the side of the car because I thought that they were going to shoot me."
After she was released, the teen knocked on several doors until one woman answered her pleas for help.
"I could hear her crying and screaming and she didn't know where she was at," said the woman who did not want to be identified. "So I just let her in."
Hill said the abduction may have been drug-related, but he said Marquesia was an innocent victim and that it may have been a case of mistaken identity.
Police said between three and six armed men snatched the teen from outside a friend's house around 7 p.m. Monday.
"Fear is the first thing that comes over you," said her mother, Michelle. "Then anxiety not knowing where your child is or what's going on. I mean it's a something that no mother should ever have to got through."
Police said there were many witnesses and they are trying to piece together the crime.
http://www.kpho.com/news/15628470/detail.html
Phoenix, Arizona - 2nd highest documented kidnapping rate in the WORLD. :)
And the guy in that youtube video wasn't detained by Arizona LEO, so I don't know why you keep posting it. Sounds like your argument should be with ICE. ;)
An even more outrageous criminal act. >:(
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Oh, "it happens." But you won't say that about the girl accidentally kidnapped in Phoenix, not by illegal migrant workers at that. Double standards.
Why do you think the mayor of Phoenix strongly opposes Arizona's new immigration law?
The point is that crime rate declining in Arizona is a fact. Illegal immigration increasing in Arizona is a fact. When people say that illegal migrant workers bring with them a wave of all sorts of serious crimes are simply lying.
How do you know it wasn't done by illegal migrant workers? What's to say they're not also working for the cartels or moonlighting as drug dealers? The drug pushers actively recruit illegals to do their dirty work. ::)
You keep circling around this crime declining bit. It doesn't mean anything as long you can't prove that the number of crimes committed by illegals has decreased. Saying crime has decreased overall doesn't mean anything when the number of illegals committing crimes may have increased. Not providing statistics on that isn't helping your argument.
Why is it that American citizens are expected to live in constant fear of kidnapping and other crimes because the perceived rights of illegal immigrants may be violated? Why are Americans second class citizens in their own country?