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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: loco on May 12, 2010, 10:01:50 AM
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United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2008
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Arizona Crime Rates 1960 - 2008
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm
Crime in Arizona has consistently gone down over the last 15 years, even while illegal immigration was increasing. The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports show that the violent crime rate statewide in Arizona has been cut by almost 40 percent since 1995, and property crimes have followed the same pattern.
Illegal entry
Violent crime rates -- including rape, murder and robbery -- haven't been this low since 1972 and Arizona's violent crime decreased at a faster rate than the national decline over the same period. More importantly, this decline in violent crime occurred during the very period that Arizona experienced a huge influx of illegal immigrants, with the Arizona border becoming the main source of illegal entry from Mexico in every year since 1998. Whatever other problems Arizonans have with illegal immigrants, they can't blame them for a nonexistent rise in violent crime.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20100503/COLUMNISTS19/5030312/Crime-in-Arizona-has-declined-even-as-illegal-immigration-has-increased
The state has an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants. But contrary to myth, they have not brought an epidemic of murder and mayhem with them. Surprise of surprises, the state has gotten safer.
Over the last decade, the violent crime rate has dropped by 19 percent, while property crime is down by 20 percent. Crime has also declined in the rest of the country, but not as fast as in Arizona.
Babeu's claim about police killings came as news to me. When I called his office to get a list of victims, I learned there has been only one since the beginning of 2008 -- deeply regrettable, but not exactly a trend.
Truth is, illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than native Americans. Most come here to work, and in their desire to stay, they are generally afraid to do anything that might draw the attention of armed people wearing badges.
El Paso, Texas, is next door to the exceptionally violent Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, and easily accessible to illegal entry. Yet it is one of the safest cities in the United States.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/How-immigration-crackdowns-backfire-91842259.html
First, the falsehoods. House Republican Leader John Boehner, interviewed this morning on National Public Radio, said, "Because of the federal government's inability to control the border, you've got more violence on the border and more violence in Arizona than almost any other state."
No, it doesn't. As the illegal immigrant population has gone up, its crime rate has gone down. Its violent crime rate is below the national average.
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/steve_chapman/2010/04/revisiting-arizonas-immigration-law-.html
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LOL thinking this 2 are correlated...
el paso is not one of the safest cities in the country i read that article and the guy doesnt give any stats or cite any sources seems like an OP ED to me loco ;)
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LOL thinking this 2 are correlated...
el paso is not one of the safest cities in the country i read that article and the guy doesnt give any stats or cite any sources seems like an OP ED to me loco ;)
What about the decline of the crime rate in Arizona as illegal immigration has increased? Stats are at the top of the thread.
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LOL thinking this 2 are correlated...
el paso is not one of the safest cities in the country i read that article and the guy doesnt give any stats or cite any sources seems like an OP ED to me loco ;)
loco because you disagree with it?
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Yet violent crimes like kidnapping have gone up almost exponentially. Maybe not all violent crime in general, but kidnappings are continuing to increase.
"PHOENIX — A 13-year-old girl was grabbed off the street and thrown into an SUV by Mexican kidnappers who mistakenly believed she was the niece of a drug dealer who helped steal 55 pounds of marijuana.
The girl pleaded with her kidnappers that they had abducted the wrong person, but they hit her over the head, bound her with duct tape and drove away as relatives watch helplessly.
In the wave of abductions that have gripped the Phoenix area, this case illustrates one of the greatest fears of police: the possibility that kidnappings might expand beyond the underworld of drug and human trafficking to target law-abiding people.
"We get enough problems with just bad-guy-on-bad-guy" abductions, Police Chief Jack Harris said. "If you expand it to where they are going after these regular citizens, we just don't have that kind of personnel to be able to invest in those kinds of cases at that level."
With 368 reported kidnappings in 2008, Phoenix has swiftly become the nation's kidnapping capital. Abductions have become such a persistent problem that police created a special squad of anti-kidnapping officers.
Authorities hope to avoid the mistakes of Mexican police, who ignored kidnappings involving smugglers _ a decision that may have encouraged gangs to start snatching ordinary people displaying signs of even modest wealth.
The Mexican government usually disregards the problem "unless it is a high-profile case _ a very rich person or a famous person who was kidnapped," said Jose Luis Velasco Cruz, a researcher at the National Autonomous University of Mexico and an expert in drug crimes.
Over the last several years, many kidnappings in Phoenix have involved drug traffickers abducting rivals, associates or their relatives. The abductions offer a way to collect unpaid debts, steal money from fellow traffickers or retaliate for earlier abductions.
Immigrant smugglers have also been known to do kidnappings, sometimes holding customers hostage to extort money from their families."
368 kidnappings in Phoenix (one city) in 2008 alone. Must be a lot of American criminals. ::)
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What about the decline of the crime rate in Arizona as illegal immigration has increased? Stats are at the top of the thread.
you see the problem you have is youre forgetting that with them being in this country THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
every illegal is a criminal... ;) whether they go on to break another law or not is inconsequential b/c they are already breaking the law
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if crime had spiked in that timespan, those who support this bill would damn sure be pointing it out.
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you see the problem you have is youre forgetting that with them being in this country THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
every illegal is a criminal... ;) whether they go on to break another law or not is inconsequential b/c they are already breaking the law
Nice spin!
Arizona's government passed this new law under the pretext that illegal immigrants are responsible for an increase in violent crime. They lied, and they lied on two accounts. 1. Crime in Arizona has declined even as illegal immigration has increased and 2. They falsely blame immigrants for what violent crime there is in Arizona without any proof.
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Nice spin!
Arizona's government passed this new law under the pretext that illegal immigrants are responsible for an increase in violent crime. They lied, and they lied on two accounts. 1. Crime in Arizona has declined even as illegal immigration has increased and 2. They falsely blame immigrants for what violent crime there is in Arizona without any proof.
Yes, violent crime in general may be down. That really means nothing when certain types of crime that are affecting more and more LEGAL American citizens are way up.
The term "violent crime" encompasses five types of crime. Kidnapping and other crimes that have shown increases like grand theft auto aren't considered violent by the DoJ.
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you see the problem you have is youre forgetting that with them being in this country THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
every illegal is a criminal... ;) whether they go on to break another law or not is inconsequential b/c they are already breaking the law
I've always thought this was the most retarded argument. It's like saying Greece is more dangerous than Somalia because there are so many Greek tax cheats. Being an illegal immigrant is not a violent crime. I know you like to compare homosexuals to murderers, so I guess now border crossing is like murder, too? 8)
A streetcam program in Arizona was up for renewal but the gov't declined- not because it didn't work, but because it was too effective. The authorities realized there were certain instances when speeding was permissible, so they let the contract lapse. I'm not saying we should open our borders, but being an illegal immigrant isn't really indicative of a criminal mindset in other areas.
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This study confirms what I have been saying all along.
Most violent crime in Arizona is committed by the retirees in Scotsdale and the practice squad of the Arizona Cardinals. Illegals are just getting a bad rap.
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I've always thought this was the most retarded argument. It's like saying Greece is more dangerous than Somalia because there are so many Greek tax cheats. Being an illegal immigrant is not a violent crime. I know you like to compare homosexuals to murderers, so I guess now border crossing is like murder, too? 8)
A streetcam program in Arizona was up for renewal but the gov't declined- not because it didn't work, but because it was too effective. The authorities realized there were certain instances when speeding was permissible, so they let the contract lapse. I'm not saying we should open our borders, but being an illegal immigrant isn't really indicative of a criminal mindset in other areas.
Breaking the law is breaking the law.
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Breaking the law is breaking the law.
I know... that's why every single criminal gets exactly the same sentence.
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I know... that's why every single criminal gets exactly the same sentence.
If it's OK for illegals to break the law, then it should be OK for pedophiles, rapists and murderers to do the same. There are people who don't think those crimes aren't that big of a deal. If certain criminals are going to get amnesty and a second chance, then why shouldn't every criminal?
The hilarity of this situation is that once again America is the only country being vilified by this. Go to any European or Asian country without any papers and you'll get your ass kicked out the second they find out. Same would happen in Mexico, after the cops shook you down, of course.
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Please stop.You know different crimes have different levels of severity. There is a MASSIVE difference between molesting a child and simply existing in a country. To pretend otherwise is not even worth further comment.
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BF your missing the point. Only America should ignore it's border and immigration laws. For all the harm that America has done to the world, this country should allow unlimited illegal immigration for anyone that comes from anywhere.
The hope is that one day America will be as shitty as it is everywhere else. Then, once that equilibrium has been restored, humanity can begin to heal itself.
After that occurs, slavery reparations should be paid, Israel should be abolished and freedom of speech should be discontinued because words hurt. Don't worry, if we keep taxing the non poor until they are poor, it will all even out!
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Yet violent crimes like kidnapping have gone up almost exponentially. Maybe not all violent crime in general, but kidnappings are continuing to increase.
"PHOENIX — A 13-year-old girl was grabbed off the street and thrown into an SUV by Mexican kidnappers who mistakenly believed she was the niece of a drug dealer who helped steal 55 pounds of marijuana.
The girl pleaded with her kidnappers that they had abducted the wrong person, but they hit her over the head, bound her with duct tape and drove away as relatives watch helplessly.
In the wave of abductions that have gripped the Phoenix area, this case illustrates one of the greatest fears of police: the possibility that kidnappings might expand beyond the underworld of drug and human trafficking to target law-abiding people.
"We get enough problems with just bad-guy-on-bad-guy" abductions, Police Chief Jack Harris said. "If you expand it to where they are going after these regular citizens, we just don't have that kind of personnel to be able to invest in those kinds of cases at that level."
With 368 reported kidnappings in 2008, Phoenix has swiftly become the nation's kidnapping capital. Abductions have become such a persistent problem that police created a special squad of anti-kidnapping officers.
Authorities hope to avoid the mistakes of Mexican police, who ignored kidnappings involving smugglers _ a decision that may have encouraged gangs to start snatching ordinary people displaying signs of even modest wealth.
The Mexican government usually disregards the problem "unless it is a high-profile case _ a very rich person or a famous person who was kidnapped," said Jose Luis Velasco Cruz, a researcher at the National Autonomous University of Mexico and an expert in drug crimes.
Over the last several years, many kidnappings in Phoenix have involved drug traffickers abducting rivals, associates or their relatives. The abductions offer a way to collect unpaid debts, steal money from fellow traffickers or retaliate for earlier abductions.
Immigrant smugglers have also been known to do kidnappings, sometimes holding customers hostage to extort money from their families."
368 kidnappings in Phoenix (one city) in 2008 alone. Must be a lot of American criminals. ::)
BerzerkFury,
Why are you complaining about this? The kidnappers are "cleaning up" Arizona and the US.
Studies show decrease in Arizona crime rates over time.
Written by Tactical-Life.com. Author Archive »
Supporters of Arizona’s harsh new immigration law claim that it is, in part, a crime-fighting measure. However, people like Republican State Senator Russell Pearce of Mesa, the bill’s author, overlook two salient points: crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century’s worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born. Furthermore, while much has been made about kidnappings in Arizona, law-enforcement officials indicate that most of these involve drug and human smugglers, as well as smuggled immigrants themselves - not the general population of the state.
The Immigration Policy Center releases a fact sheet which shows the decrease in Arizona crime rates over time. The fact sheet also indicates that states with high immigration have the lowest crime rates and that unauthorized immigration is not associated with higher crime rates.
Highlights include:
-According to data from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, violent crimes in Arizona fell from 512 per 100,000 people in 2005 to 447 per 100,000 people in 2008, the last year for which data is available.
-According to a 2008 report from the conservative Americas Majority Foundation, crime rates are lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates, such as Arizona. From 1999 to 2006, the total crime rate declined 13.6 percent in the 19 highest-immigration states (including Arizona), compared to a 7.1 percent decline in the other 32 states.
-Although the unauthorized immigrant population doubled to about 12 million from 1994 to 2004, data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics indicates that the violent crime rate in the United States declined by 35.1 percent during this time and the property crime rate fell by 25.0 percent.
-Combating crime related to human smuggling requires more trust between immigrants and the police, not less. Yet the undermining of trust between police and the community is precisely what Arizona’s new law accomplishes. In the final analysis, immigration policy is not an effective means of addressing crime because the vast majority of immigrants are not criminals.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/news/studies-show-decrease-in-arizona-crime-rates-over-time/?right=news
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Please stop.You know different crimes have different levels of severity. There is a MASSIVE difference between molesting a child and simply existing in a country. To pretend otherwise is not even worth further comment.
It's your perception that being an illegal alien isn't a big deal. My perception is that they shouldn't be allowed in this country, nor should they be rewarded for it by giving them amnesty a second chance. Someone else might perceive rape and pedophilia as OK. This is why laws exist.
Breaking the law is breaking the law.
Go to any European country illegally and I'll bet you will get kicked out on your ass when they find out. ;)
BF your missing the point. Only America should ignore it's border and immigration laws. For all the harm that America has done to the world, this country should allow unlimited illegal immigration for anyone that comes from anywhere.
The hope is that one day America will be as shitty as it is everywhere else. Then, once that equilibrium has been restored, humanity can begin to heal itself.
After that occurs, slavery reparations should be paid, Israel should be abolished and freedom of speech should be discontinued because words hurt. Don't worry, if we keep taxing the non poor until they are poor, it will all even out!
Of course. It's only America that has to be the good, forgiving guy. Never mind that many European and Asian countries vigorously enforce their immigration laws. If I was working in Hong Kong and lost my job, I would have 30 days to find another job or get out. ::)
And Loco, you're an idiot. While the majority of kidnappings involve drug cartels and their various members, the fact of the matter is that quite a few American citizens have been kidnapped due to mistaken identity or for other reasons like having money. It's amazing that this doesn't bother you but the perceived rights of an illegal alien being violated does. Once again, American citizens, who have the right to live their lives without fear of being mistaken for a drug mule and kidnapped, take a back seat to criminals. What a travesty.
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Nice spin!
Arizona's government passed this new law under the pretext that illegal immigrants are responsible for an increase in violent crime. They lied, and they lied on two accounts. 1. Crime in Arizona has declined even as illegal immigration has increased and 2. They falsely blame immigrants for what violent crime there is in Arizona without any proof.
Im not spinning shit loco tell me where i was wrong...
you on the other hand... ::)
that doesnt prove that illegals arent responsible for violent crimes...you need stats on the status of those who commit those crimes to do this...just saying that illegals have increased and crime decreased doesnt prove that point(sounds like youve been taking stats tips from AL)
legal citizens could be commiting less crime letting illegals commit more and still end up with a net loss...
get the stats for the status of those commiting crimes...
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Maybe because Arizona now has true Constitutional carry? 8)
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I've always thought this was the most retarded argument. It's like saying Greece is more dangerous than Somalia because there are so many Greek tax cheats. Being an illegal immigrant is not a violent crime. I know you like to compare homosexuals to murderers, so I guess now border crossing is like murder, too? 8)
LOL WHAT? are you butt hurt I made you look like a fool over your statistics prowess so youve resorted to making shit up? ::)
A streetcam program in Arizona was up for renewal but the gov't declined- not because it didn't work, but because it was too effective. The authorities realized there were certain instances when speeding was permissible, so they let the contract lapse. I'm not saying we should open our borders, but being an illegal immigrant isn't really indicative of a criminal mindset in other areas.
I never it was simply pointing out the fact that they are criminals already, AM I WRONG?
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Yes, violent crime in general may be down. That really means nothing when certain types of crime that are affecting more and more LEGAL American citizens are way up.
The term "violent crime" encompasses five types of crime. Kidnapping and other crimes that have shown increases like grand theft auto aren't considered violent by the DoJ.
Yes, all those crimes have declined in Arizona too. Just read the stats.
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Regardless of crime, etc.. ANYONE who defends the illegal immigrants like it's their "right" to be here are complete idiots. Why have any laws if you douches get to pick and choose which ones you think are "fair?"
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Yes, all those crimes have declined in Arizona too. Just read the stats.
Really? Is that why Phoenix was the kidnapping capital of the USA in 2007/2008/2009 and had the 2nd highest kidnapping rate of any city in the world? Stop lying.
What's to say that the percentage of Americans committing violent crimes hasn't gone down while the number of illegal aliens committing those crimes hasn't gone up? For example, if 40,000 violent crimes were committed in 2008 and 60% of those were carried out by Americans, then that would 24,000 crimes committed by American citizens and 16,000 committed by illegals. Now let's say that 30,000 violent crimes were committed in 2009, but only 20% of those were committed by American citizens. Well then, 6,000 violent crimes were committed by American citizens and 24,000 were committed by illegals. Violent crime may be down, but illegals would be committing more violent crimes than when it was up.
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Im not spinning shit loco tell me where i was wrong...
you on the other hand... ::)
that doesnt prove that illegals arent responsible for violent crimes...you need stats on the status of those who commit those crimes to do this...just saying that illegals have increased and crime decreased doesnt prove that point(sounds like youve been taking stats tips from AL)
legal citizens could be commiting less crime letting illegals commit more and still end up with a net loss...
get the stats for the status of those commiting crimes...
Did the Arizona government lie or not? They said the reason for the law was the increase in crime and they blamed illegal immigrants for it.
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Regardless of crime, etc.. ANYONE who defends the illegal immigrants like it's their "right" to be here are complete idiots. Why have any laws if you douches get to pick and choose which ones you think are "fair?"
they just want to pick and choose which ones to enforce, they are ok with convicting an innocent man for theft but not for being an illegal...right loco?
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Did the Arizona government lie or not? They said the reason for the law was the increase in crime and they blamed illegal immigrants for it.
Kidnappings are way up. Yes, certain crimes are being committed more and more frequently.
359 reported kidnappings in 2007 (was a 10 year high).
368 in 2008.
302 through the first 11 months of 2009 (Wow, a SLIGHT decline!).
300+ kidnappings in one city is a big problem.
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they just want to pick and choose which ones to enforce, they are ok with convicting an innocent man for theft but not for being an illegal...right loco?
This law targets Latinos and you know it. If not, why after passing it and signing it into law, they had to go back and amend it even before it went into effect? ::)
Still nobody knows what the heck "reasonable suspicion" means.
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This law targets Latinos and you know it. If not, why after passing it and signing it into law, they had to go back and amend it even before it went into effect? ::)
Still nobody knows what the heck "reasonable suspicion" means.
Got any hard proof that it targets Latinos or is that just your opinion? I'm pretty sure that it targets illegal immigrants, who are criminals.
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Did the Arizona government lie or not? They said the reason for the law was the increase in crime and they blamed illegal immigrants for it.
iono loco the link you gave only goes to 2008 and yes you can see a increase in crime over the last decade in that one...
but again you need the number of crimes commited by illegals in comparison to the number of crimes commited total to get an accurate depiction of how much crime illegals are responsible for...GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD
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Kidnappings are way up. Yes, certain crimes are being committed more and more frequently.
359 reported kidnappings in 2007 (was a 10 year high).
368 in 2008.
302 through the first 11 months of 2009 (Wow, a SLIGHT decline!).
300+ kidnappings in one city is a big problem.
So they passed the law because of kidnappings being carried out, not by illegal immigrants, but by drug dealers on other drug dealers? ::)
Why are you so concerned about kidnappings of drug dealers by drug dealers?
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iono loco the link you gave only goes to 2008 and yes you can see a increase in crime over the last decade in that one...
but again you need the number of crimes commited by illegals in comparison to the number of crimes commited total to get an accurate depiction of how much crime illegals are responsible for...GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD
No you can't. What are you talking about? The stats show crime has declined in Arizona. Are the facts confusing you?
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This law targets Latinos and you know it. If not, why after passing it and signing it into law, they had to go back and amend it even before it went into effect? ::)
Still nobody knows what the heck "reasonable suspicion" means.
LOL again the law targets illegals, yes most illegals are hispanic but the law doesnt target hispanics ::)
and the law was changed to probable cause try and keep up I know you dont like the facts of this bill but try to keep up
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He's right.
Also when drug dealers murder other drug dealers it's not a big deal.
I have a great idea. If illegals kill other illegals, they should get merit badges for helping with American population control.
You know for a fact that the CIA has already begun black ops for such measures.
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So they passed the law because of kidnappings being carried out, not by illegal immigrants, but by drug dealers on other drug dealers? ::)
Why are you so concerned about kidnappings of drug dealers by drug dealers?
Because multiple kidnappings have not involved drug dealers, but innocent AMERICANS who were victims of mistaken identity or having too much money and making good ransom targets.
Why are you so concerned with the perceived rights of criminals but not with the American citizens whose lives have been ruined by these people? ::)
That's right, Americans are 2nd class citizens to illegal aliens. Same story with regards to Muslims and terrorists. ::)
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No you can't. What are you talking about? The stats show crime has declined in Arizona. Are the facts confusing you?
AGAIN your link only goes up to 2008 its 2010... ;)
and from 2008 5 out of the 8 categories have seen increases ;)
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AGAIN your link only goes up to 2008 its 2010... ;)
and from 2008 5 out of the 8 categories have seen increases ;)
I've already given him an example of why arguing that the number of crimes going down doesn't prove anything. His statistics don't address the percent of those violent crimes carried out by illegal immigrants. For all we know, the proportion of violent crime committed by aliens could have doubled while the overall number of crimes committed has gone down. He chose to ignore it, though. Surprise, surprise.
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He's right.
Also when drug dealers murder other drug dealers it's not a big deal.
I have a great idea. If illegals kill other illegals, they should get merit badges for helping with American population control.
You know for a fact that the CIA has already begun black ops for such measures.
Drug dealers murdering other drug dealers is a big deal, and so is illegals murdering other illegals. But those aren't the reasons the Arizona government listed for passing this law.
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AGAIN your link only goes up to 2008 its 2010... ;)
and from 2008 5 out of the 8 categories have seen increases ;)
tonymctones,
Do you believe that crime in Arizona has increased between 2008 to 2010?
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I've already given him an example of why arguing that the number of crimes going down doesn't prove anything. His statistics don't address the percent of those violent crimes carried out by illegal immigrants. For all we know, the proportion of violent crime committed by aliens could have doubled while the overall number of crimes committed has gone down. He chose to ignore it, though. Surprise, surprise.
Do you have any proof at all that a significant percentage of crimes committed in Arizona against American citizens were committed by illegal immigrants?
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Do you have any proof at all that a significant percentage of crimes committed in Arizona against American citizens were committed by illegal immigrants?
do you have proof to refute that statement?
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tonymctones,
Do you believe that crime in Arizona has increased between 2008 to 2010?
You really need to stop focusing on "crime" in general, as it encompasses a laundry list of different offenses. Certain crimes are down while other types of crime, such as kidnapping, are way up. You don't address the percentage of crimes committed by illegals but instead focus on the overall number committed to prove your point. You're really spinning it while ignoring key points.
Do you have any proof at all that a significant percentage of crimes committed in Arizona against American citizens were committed by illegal immigrants?
Do you have any proof that illegals don't commit a significant number of crimes against American citizens? And what constitutes significant? As far as I'm concerned, any crime committed by an illegal alien on an American citizen is a problem. It's funny that you're pretty much insinuating the illegals committing crime is OK as long as they do it in small numbers. American citizens living in their own country should expect to be the victims of a certain number of crimes carried out by illegal alien criminals. They're second class in their own country, after all.
I've already posted an article where a 14 year old girl was kidnapped due to mistaken identity. She is not the only one that this has happened to. ::)
What a stupid fucking argument.
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do you have proof to refute that statement?
You, BerzerkFury, and the Arizona government made the accusation. The burden of proof is on you.
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You really need to stop focusing on "crime" in general, as it encompasses a laundry list of different offenses. Certain crimes are down while other types of crime, such as kidnapping, are way up. You don't address the percentage of crimes committed by illegals but instead focus on the overall number committed to prove your point. You're really spinning it while ignoring key points.
Do you have any proof that illegals don't commit a significant number of crimes against American citizens? And what constitutes significant? As far as I'm concerned, any crime committed by an illegal alien on an American citizen is a problem. It's funny that you're pretty much insinuating the illegals committing crime is OK as long as they do it in small numbers. American citizens living in their own country should expect to be the victims of a certain number of crimes carried out by illegal alien criminals. They're second class in their own country, after all.
I've already posted an article where a 14 year old girl was kidnapped due to mistaken identity. She is not the only one that this has happened to. ::)
What a stupid fucking argument.
You and the Arizona government made the accusation. The burden of proof is on you.
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You, BerzerkFury, and the Arizona government made the accusation. The burden of proof is on you.
I've already showed you statistics showing that kidnappings are way up. Other crimes such as grand theft auto are also up. I've also given you an example of why using the total number of crimes committed is pointless. I then posted an example of an American citizen being kidnapped as a result of mistaken identity. You chose to ignore all this because you are incapable of refuting it and have zeroed in on the total number of violent crimes committed.
Prove that the percentage of violent crimes carried out by illegal aliens hasn't increased. Also provide estimations for the number of unreported crimes.
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tonymctones,
Do you believe that crime in Arizona has increased between 2008 to 2010?
iono but youre saying it hasnt so you need to prove it... ;)
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I've already showed you statistics showing that kidnappings are way up. Other crimes such as grand theft auto are also up. I've also given you an example of why using the total number of crimes committed is pointless. I then posted an example of an American citizen being kidnapped as a result of mistaken identity. You chose to ignore all this because you are incapable of refuting it and have zeroed in on the total number of violent crimes committed.
Prove that the percentage of violent crimes carried out by illegal aliens hasn't increased. Also provide estimations for the number of unreported crimes.
One American citizen gets kidnapped by accident by a Mexican drug cartel and Arizona passes a law to crack down on anyone that looks like an illegal immigrant? ::)
No, you said something about crimes committed by illegal immigrants doubling. Got any proof?
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Doesn't look like there are reliable statistics one way or the other. Here is an excerpt from an article that says eleven percent of the prison population in Arizona consists of illegals. That's pretty significant and huge drain on taxpayer resources.
In 2004, the year when the data was most recently available, 12.4 percent of California prisoners were illegal immigrants, as compared with an estimated 6.9 percent of the state population. In Arizona, 11.1 percent of the prison population was undocumented, compared with 7 percent of the overall state population. In Texas, the percentage was also slightly higher in the prisons than it was statewide.
A Government Accountability Office study from 2005 also found that most illegal immigrant arrests were happening in California, Texas and Arizona. The study sampled a prison population of more than 55,000 illegal immigrants, and found that 80 percent of all the arrests were in those three states.
But overall, it's hard to say that illegal immigrants have triggered a crime explosion in any of these states, though the recent killing of Arizona rancher Robert Krentz by a suspected illegal immigrant has served as a rallying cry for advocates of tougher enforcement.
FBI statistics show California and Texas had a violent crime average slightly higher than the national average 2008, while Arizona's average was slightly lower.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/29/border-states-dealing-illegal-immigrant-crime-data-suggests/
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iono but youre saying it hasnt so you need to prove it... ;)
I never said it hasn't. I posted stats that say it has declined, up until 2008.
So what is your guess? Do you think crime in Arizona declined for decades up until 2008, then suddenly increased between 2008 to 2010?
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One American citizen gets kidnapped by accident by a Mexican drug cartel and Arizona passes a law to crack down on anyone that looks like an illegal immigrant? ::)
No, you said something about crimes committed by illegal immigrants doubling. Got any proof?
That's not the only example of an American citizen being kidnapped due to mistaken identity. I'm curious, how many makes it a problem, though? Are you seriously saying that it's OK for a certain number of American citizens to be kidnapped but it's wrong to crack down on illegal immigrants who are also criminals and the majority of the people committing these kidnappings? Do you not see how stupid that looks?
Last year, 2009, Arizona apprehended or arrested 250,000 illegals who had or were in the process of committing a criminal act other than being an illegal alien. A total of 250,000 arrests in one year in a State of 6.5 million. That's not a problem. ::)
Just under 40% of the population in Arizona is Hispanic. 75% of Arizona residents support this law.
Also to note, about 50% of all police officers in Arizona are Hispanic. ::)
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You, BerzerkFury, and the Arizona government made the accusation. The burden of proof is on you.
LOL no no no, bud I said I dont know, I said we need more info...YOU HAVE MADE MULTIPLE ASSERTIONS IN THIS THREAD THAT ARE INNACCURATE AND UNFOUNDED...
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Doesn't look like there are reliable statistics one way or the other. Here is an excerpt from an article that says eleven percent of the prison population in Arizona consists of illegals. That's pretty significant and huge drain on taxpayer resources.
In 2004, the year when the data was most recently available, 12.4 percent of California prisoners were illegal immigrants, as compared with an estimated 6.9 percent of the state population. In Arizona, 11.1 percent of the prison population was undocumented, compared with 7 percent of the overall state population. In Texas, the percentage was also slightly higher in the prisons than it was statewide.
A Government Accountability Office study from 2005 also found that most illegal immigrant arrests were happening in California, Texas and Arizona. The study sampled a prison population of more than 55,000 illegal immigrants, and found that 80 percent of all the arrests were in those three states.
But overall, it's hard to say that illegal immigrants have triggered a crime explosion in any of these states, though the recent killing of Arizona rancher Robert Krentz by a suspected illegal immigrant has served as a rallying cry for advocates of tougher enforcement.
FBI statistics show California and Texas had a violent crime average slightly higher than the national average 2008, while Arizona's average was slightly lower.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/29/border-states-dealing-illegal-immigrant-crime-data-suggests/
Beach Bum,
What are illegal immigrants doing in prison? Why don't they get deported?
By the way, Arizona rancher Robert Krentz was killed by a Mexican drug cartel, not by Arizona illegal residents.
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LOL no no no, bud I said I dont know, I said we need more info...YOU HAVE MADE MULTIPLE ASSERTIONS IN THIS THREAD THAT ARE INNACCURATE AND UNFOUNDED...
So why even bring up the the stats only go up to 2008?
So according to you, I "HAVE MADE MULTIPLE ASSERTIONS IN THIS THREAD THAT ARE INNACCURATE AND UNFOUNDED" yet you don't say which ones and why. You have been doing this to me on every discussion having to do with this law. You say I'm wrong, but don't say how. You say I'm misleading, but you won't say how. Can you be more specific?
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Beach Bum,
What are illegal immigrants doing in prison? Why don't they get deported?
By the way, Arizona rancher Robert Krentz was killed by a Mexican drug cartel, not by Arizona illegal residents.
Good question lolo. :D I think they do get deported after they complete their sentences. I understand the rationale behind locking up illegals who commit other crimes in this country.
What we're doing is not unusual. We have three American citizens who have been held by Iran for the last nine months. :-\
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So why even bring up the the stats only go up to 2008?
So according to you, I "HAVE MADE MULTIPLE ASSERTIONS IN THIS THREAD THAT ARE INNACCURATE AND UNFOUNDED" yet you don't say which ones and why. You have been doing this to me on every discussion having to do with this law. You say I'm wrong, but don't say how. You say I'm misleading, but you won't say how. Can you be more specific?
OMG DUDE youre like talking to a cracked out person with ADD for the love of shit...
you assert that crime has gone down actually 5 of the 8 categories in your link show crime going up over the last decade...
you assert that illegals arent responsible for violent crimes as much as arizona says...you have provided no proof of this....
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OMG DUDE youre like talking to a cracked out person with ADD for the love of shit...
you assert that crime has gone down actually 5 of the 8 categories in your link show crime going up over the last decade...
you assert that illegals arent responsible for violent crimes as much as arizona says...you have provided no proof of this....
First of all, there are 9 categories, not 8. Which 5 of the 9 categories show crime going up over the last decade? They all declined. You are the one making inaccurate and unfounded assertions.
Arizona Crime Index Rates Per 100,000 Inhabitants
Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Forcible-Rape Robbery Aggravated-assault Burglary Larceny-Theft Vehicle-Theft
2001 5,306,966 6,077.8 540.3 5,537.5 7.5 28.6 167.1 337.1 1,033.0 3,520.8 983.7
2002 5,441,125 6,575.0 554.5 5,849.8 7.1 29.6 147.0 370.8 1,085.9 3,704.0 1,059.9
2003 5,579,222 5,858.3 513.3 5,345.0 7.9 33.3 136.6 335.6 1,050.6 3,561.9 1,023.6
2004 5,739,879 5,577.7 504.4 5,073.3 7.2 33.0 134.5 329.6 991.0 3,118.7 963.5
2005 5,953,007 5,351.2 512.0 4,838.0 7.5 33.7 144.1 326.7 946.2 2,958.4 922.3
2006 6,166,318 5,128.3 501.4 4,627.9 7.5 31.5 149.6 312.7 925.3 2,813.1 889.5
2007 6,338,755 4,896.7 482.7 4,414.0 7.4 29.3 151.7 294.3 912.2 2,738.4 763.4
2008 6,500,180 4,738.0 447.0 4,291.0 6.3 25.7 149.2 265.9 868.9 2,849.5 572.6
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm
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LOL again loco the table only goes to 2008 so go back to 1998 and then compare...
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LOL again loco the table only goes to 2008 so go back to 1998 and then compare...
No, you asserted that 5 out of 8 categories show crime had increased in Arizona over the last decade according to the link above. Then you accused me of making inaccurate and unfounded assertions. ::)
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I think a more appropriate question/inquiry is whether crimes committed by illegals has increased.
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I think a more appropriate question/inquiry is whether crimes committed by illegals has increased.
EXACTLY i point i and others have made but loco has refused to acknowledge...
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EXACTLY i point i and others have made but loco has refused to acknowledge...
You asserted that 5 out of 8 categories show crime had increased in Arizona over the last decade according to the link above. Then you accused me of making inaccurate and unfounded assertions.
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No, you asserted that 5 out of 8 categories show crime had increased in Arizona over the last decade according to the link above. Then you accused me of making inaccurate and unfounded assertions. ::)
a decade is 10 yrs brosky since your link ends at 2008 take 10yrs prior...sorry I wasnt more clear
i didnt count the index sorry again
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a decade is 10 yrs brosky since your link ends at 2008 take 10yrs prior...sorry I wasnt more clear
i didnt count the index sorry again
No problem! :)
Arizona Crime Index Rates Per 100,000 Inhabitants
Year Population Index Violent Property Murder Forcible-Rape Robbery Aggravated-assault Burglary Larceny-Theft Vehicle-Theft
1998 4,669,000 6,575.0 577.9 5,997.0 8.1 31.1 165.2 373.6 1,209.5 3,922.4 865.1
1999 4,778,332 5,896.1 551.1 5,345.0 8.0 28.9 152.5 361.6 1,034.3 3,510.2 800.4
2000 5,130,632 5,829.5 531.7 5,297.8 7.0 30.7 146.3 347.7 1,011.6 3,444.1 842.1
2001 5,306,966 6,077.8 540.3 5,537.5 7.5 28.6 167.1 337.1 1,033.0 3,520.8 983.7
2002 5,441,125 6,575.0 554.5 5,849.8 7.1 29.6 147.0 370.8 1,085.9 3,704.0 1,059.9
2003 5,579,222 5,858.3 513.3 5,345.0 7.9 33.3 136.6 335.6 1,050.6 3,561.9 1,023.6
2004 5,739,879 5,577.7 504.4 5,073.3 7.2 33.0 134.5 329.6 991.0 3,118.7 963.5
2005 5,953,007 5,351.2 512.0 4,838.0 7.5 33.7 144.1 326.7 946.2 2,958.4 922.3
2006 6,166,318 5,128.3 501.4 4,627.9 7.5 31.5 149.6 312.7 925.3 2,813.1 889.5
2007 6,338,755 4,896.7 482.7 4,414.0 7.4 29.3 151.7 294.3 912.2 2,738.4 763.4
2008 6,500,180 4,738.0 447.0 4,291.0 6.3 25.7 149.2 265.9 868.9 2,849.5 572.6
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm
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sighhhhhhhh
thats going off the per 100000 inhabitants....the numbers for the total have gone up...goodness gracious...
the first set of numbers on there post those for 1998 to 2008