Crime in Arizona has declined even as illegal immigration has increased

[tonymctones]

Regardless of crime, etc.. ANYONE who defends the illegal immigrants like it's their "right" to be here are complete idiots.  Why have any laws if you douches get to pick and choose which ones you think are "fair?" 

they just want to pick and choose which ones to enforce, they are ok with convicting an innocent man for theft but not for being an illegal...right loco?

[Fury]

Did the Arizona government lie or not?  They said the reason for the law was the increase in crime and they blamed illegal immigrants for it.

Kidnappings are way up. Yes, certain crimes are being committed more and more frequently.

359 reported kidnappings in 2007 (was a 10 year high).
368 in 2008.
302 through the first 11 months of 2009 (Wow, a SLIGHT decline!).

300+ kidnappings in one city is a big problem.

[loco]

they just want to pick and choose which ones to enforce, they are ok with convicting an innocent man for theft but not for being an illegal...right loco?

This law targets Latinos and you know it.  If not, why after passing it and signing it into law, they had to go back and amend it even before it went into effect?    

Still nobody knows what the heck "reasonable suspicion" means.

[Fury]

This law targets Latinos and you know it.  If not, why after passing it and signing it into law, they had to go back and amend it even before it went into effect?    

Still nobody knows what the heck "reasonable suspicion" means.

Got any hard proof that it targets Latinos or is that just your opinion? I'm pretty sure that it targets illegal immigrants, who are criminals.

[tonymctones]

Did the Arizona government lie or not?  They said the reason for the law was the increase in crime and they blamed illegal immigrants for it.

iono loco the link you gave only goes to 2008 and yes you can see a increase in crime over the last decade in that one...

but again you need the number of crimes commited by illegals in comparison to the number of crimes commited total to get an accurate depiction of how much crime illegals are responsible for...GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD

[loco]

Kidnappings are way up. Yes, certain crimes are being committed more and more frequently.

359 reported kidnappings in 2007 (was a 10 year high).
368 in 2008.
302 through the first 11 months of 2009 (Wow, a SLIGHT decline!).

300+ kidnappings in one city is a big problem.

So they passed the law because of kidnappings being carried out, not by illegal immigrants, but by drug dealers on other drug dealers?    

Why are you so concerned about kidnappings of drug dealers by drug dealers?

[loco]

iono loco the link you gave only goes to 2008 and yes you can see a increase in crime over the last decade in that one...

but again you need the number of crimes commited by illegals in comparison to the number of crimes commited total to get an accurate depiction of how much crime illegals are responsible for...GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD

No you can't.  What are you talking about?  The stats show crime has declined in Arizona.  Are the facts confusing you?

[tonymctones]

This law targets Latinos and you know it.  If not, why after passing it and signing it into law, they had to go back and amend it even before it went into effect?    

Still nobody knows what the heck "reasonable suspicion" means.

LOL again the law targets illegals, yes most illegals are hispanic but the law doesnt target hispanics 

and the law was changed to probable cause try and keep up I know you dont like the facts of this bill but try to keep up

[George Whorewell]

He's right.

Also when drug dealers murder other drug dealers it's not a big deal.

I have a great idea. If illegals kill other illegals, they should get merit badges for helping with American population control.

You know for a fact that the CIA has already begun black ops for such measures.

[Fury]

So they passed the law because of kidnappings being carried out, not by illegal immigrants, but by drug dealers on other drug dealers?    

Why are you so concerned about kidnappings of drug dealers by drug dealers?

Because multiple kidnappings have not involved drug dealers, but innocent AMERICANS who were victims of mistaken identity or having too much money and making good ransom targets.

Why are you so concerned with the perceived rights of criminals but not with the American citizens whose lives have been ruined by these people? 

That's right, Americans are 2nd class citizens to illegal aliens. Same story with regards to Muslims and terrorists. 

[tonymctones]

No you can't.  What are you talking about?  The stats show crime has declined in Arizona.  Are the facts confusing you?

AGAIN your link only goes up to 2008 its 2010...

and from 2008 5 out of the 8 categories have seen increases

[Fury]

AGAIN your link only goes up to 2008 its 2010...

and from 2008 5 out of the 8 categories have seen increases

I've already given him an example of why arguing that the number of crimes going down doesn't prove anything. His statistics don't address the percent of those violent crimes carried out by illegal immigrants. For all we know, the proportion of violent crime committed by aliens could have doubled while the overall number of crimes committed has gone down. He chose to ignore it, though. Surprise, surprise.

[loco]

He's right.

Also when drug dealers murder other drug dealers it's not a big deal.

I have a great idea. If illegals kill other illegals, they should get merit badges for helping with American population control.

You know for a fact that the CIA has already begun black ops for such measures.

Drug dealers murdering other drug dealers is a big deal, and so is illegals murdering other illegals.  But those aren't the reasons the Arizona government listed for passing this law.

[loco]

AGAIN your link only goes up to 2008 its 2010...

and from 2008 5 out of the 8 categories have seen increases

tonymctones,

Do you believe that crime in Arizona has increased between 2008 to 2010?

[loco]

I've already given him an example of why arguing that the number of crimes going down doesn't prove anything. His statistics don't address the percent of those violent crimes carried out by illegal immigrants. For all we know, the proportion of violent crime committed by aliens could have doubled while the overall number of crimes committed has gone down. He chose to ignore it, though. Surprise, surprise.

Do you have any proof at all that a significant percentage of crimes committed in Arizona against American citizens were committed by illegal immigrants?

[tonymctones]

Do you have any proof at all that a significant percentage of crimes committed in Arizona against American citizens were committed by illegal immigrants?

do you have proof to refute that statement?

[Fury]

tonymctones,

Do you believe that crime in Arizona has increased between 2008 to 2010?

You really need to stop focusing on "crime" in general, as it encompasses a laundry list of different offenses. Certain crimes are down while other types of crime, such as kidnapping, are way up. You don't address the percentage of crimes committed by illegals but instead focus on the overall number committed to prove your point. You're really spinning it while ignoring key points.

Do you have any proof at all that a significant percentage of crimes committed in Arizona against American citizens were committed by illegal immigrants?

Do you have any proof that illegals don't commit a significant number of crimes against American citizens? And what constitutes significant? As far as I'm concerned, any crime committed by an illegal alien on an American citizen is a problem. It's funny that you're pretty much insinuating the illegals committing crime is OK as long as they do it in small numbers. American citizens living in their own country should expect to be the victims of a certain number of crimes carried out by illegal alien criminals. They're second class in their own country, after all.

I've already posted an article where a 14 year old girl was kidnapped due to mistaken identity. She is not the only one that this has happened to. 

What a stupid fucking argument.

[loco]

do you have proof to refute that statement?

You, BerzerkFury, and the Arizona government made the accusation.  The burden of proof is on you.

[loco]

You really need to stop focusing on "crime" in general, as it encompasses a laundry list of different offenses. Certain crimes are down while other types of crime, such as kidnapping, are way up. You don't address the percentage of crimes committed by illegals but instead focus on the overall number committed to prove your point. You're really spinning it while ignoring key points.

Do you have any proof that illegals don't commit a significant number of crimes against American citizens? And what constitutes significant? As far as I'm concerned, any crime committed by an illegal alien on an American citizen is a problem. It's funny that you're pretty much insinuating the illegals committing crime is OK as long as they do it in small numbers. American citizens living in their own country should expect to be the victims of a certain number of crimes carried out by illegal alien criminals. They're second class in their own country, after all.

I've already posted an article where a 14 year old girl was kidnapped due to mistaken identity. She is not the only one that this has happened to. 

What a stupid fucking argument.

You and the Arizona government made the accusation.  The burden of proof is on you.

[Fury]

You, BerzerkFury, and the Arizona government made the accusation.  The burden of proof is on you.

I've already showed you statistics showing that kidnappings are way up. Other crimes such as grand theft auto are also up. I've also given you an example of why using the total number of crimes committed is pointless. I then posted an example of an American citizen being kidnapped as a result of mistaken identity. You chose to ignore all this because you are incapable of refuting it and have zeroed in on the total number of violent crimes committed.

Prove that the percentage of violent crimes carried out by illegal aliens hasn't increased. Also provide estimations for the number of unreported crimes.

[tonymctones]

tonymctones,

Do you believe that crime in Arizona has increased between 2008 to 2010?

iono but youre saying it hasnt so you need to prove it...

[loco]

I've already showed you statistics showing that kidnappings are way up. Other crimes such as grand theft auto are also up. I've also given you an example of why using the total number of crimes committed is pointless. I then posted an example of an American citizen being kidnapped as a result of mistaken identity. You chose to ignore all this because you are incapable of refuting it and have zeroed in on the total number of violent crimes committed.

Prove that the percentage of violent crimes carried out by illegal aliens hasn't increased. Also provide estimations for the number of unreported crimes.

One American citizen gets kidnapped by accident by a Mexican drug cartel and Arizona passes a law to crack down on anyone that looks like an illegal immigrant?  

No, you said something about crimes committed by illegal immigrants doubling.  Got any proof?  

[Dos Equis]

Doesn't look like there are reliable statistics one way or the other.  Here is an excerpt from an article that says eleven percent of the prison population in Arizona consists of illegals.  That's pretty significant and huge drain on taxpayer resources.  


In 2004, the year when the data was most recently available, 12.4 percent of California prisoners were illegal immigrants, as compared with an estimated 6.9 percent of the state population. In Arizona, 11.1 percent of the prison population was undocumented, compared with 7 percent of the overall state population. In Texas, the percentage was also slightly higher in the prisons than it was statewide.

A Government Accountability Office study from 2005 also found that most illegal immigrant arrests were happening in California, Texas and Arizona. The study sampled a prison population of more than 55,000 illegal immigrants, and found that 80 percent of all the arrests were in those three states.

But overall, it's hard to say that illegal immigrants have triggered a crime explosion in any of these states, though the recent killing of Arizona rancher Robert Krentz by a suspected illegal immigrant has served as a rallying cry for advocates of tougher enforcement.

FBI statistics show California and Texas had a violent crime average slightly higher than the national average 2008, while Arizona's average was slightly lower.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/29/border-states-dealing-illegal-immigrant-crime-data-suggests/

[loco]

iono but youre saying it hasnt so you need to prove it...

I never said it hasn't.  I posted stats that say it has declined, up until 2008.

So what is your guess?  Do you think crime in Arizona declined for decades up until 2008, then suddenly increased between 2008 to 2010?

[Fury]

One American citizen gets kidnapped by accident by a Mexican drug cartel and Arizona passes a law to crack down on anyone that looks like an illegal immigrant?  

No, you said something about crimes committed by illegal immigrants doubling.  Got any proof?  

That's not the only example of an American citizen being kidnapped due to mistaken identity. I'm curious, how many makes it a problem, though? Are you seriously saying that it's OK for a certain number of American citizens to be kidnapped but it's wrong to crack down on illegal immigrants who are also criminals and the majority of the people committing these kidnappings? Do you not see how stupid that looks?

Last year, 2009, Arizona apprehended or arrested 250,000 illegals who had or were in the process of committing a criminal act other than being an illegal alien. A total of 250,000 arrests in one year in a State of 6.5 million. That's not a problem.  

Just under 40% of the population in Arizona is Hispanic. 75% of Arizona residents support this law.

Also to note, about 50% of all police officers in Arizona are Hispanic.