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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: che on July 24, 2010, 05:43:12 PM
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WTF were the judges looking at ??? seriously
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Damn :-X
That should have been a clear win.
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WTF were the judges looking at ??? seriously
At the thighs? ???
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::)
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good to see the 07 Olympia judges are still employed
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good to see the 07 Olympia judges are still employed
LMAO!!!!
8) ;D
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one has more muscle tho
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I'm not really a Dave Henry fan but as Wiggs said, "Damn!"
Just reason number billion why bodybuilding sucks. I'm not a huge fan of the sport but I appreciate, or try to, what these guys put themselves through. And then they are at the mercy of a bunch of Schmoes.
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I'm not really a Dave Henry fan but as Wiggs said, "Damn!"
Just reason number billion why bodybuilding sucks. I'm not a huge fan of the sport but I appreciate, or try to, what these guys put themselves through. And then they are at the mercy of a bunch of Schmoes.
thats true another problem is the judges sometimes have different opinions
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one has more muscle tho
Marty, how the hell are ya buddy?
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Marty, how the hell are ya buddy?
good thanks i'm enjoying the nice weather 8)
how are you?
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good thanks i'm enjoying the nice weather 8)
how are you?
I'm staying sheltered from our 110 degree "whether" ;D "hear" in Vegas.
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yet again another patheticaly judged show ::)
every year i hope that bodybuilding will get serious, and award the guy with the best physique on stage the win, rather than the guy who sucks judges schlongs :-X
disgrace.
chick - why don't you do something about this pathetic judging ?
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yet again another patheticaly judged show ::)
every year i hope that bodybuilding will get serious, and award the guy with the best physique on stage the win, rather than the guy who sucks judges schlongs :-X
disgrace.
chick - why don't you do something about this pathetic judging ?
Dude, where have you been? Welcome back. 8)
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Robbed for sure!
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I'm not really a Dave Henry fan but as Wiggs said, "Damn!"
Just reason number billion why bodybuilding sucks. I'm not a huge fan of the sport but I appreciate, or try to, what these guys put themselves through. And then they are at the mercy of a bunch of Schmoes.
agreed
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its like dana white always says you cant let it go to the judges scorecards
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its like dana white always says you cant let it go to the judges scorecards
Ha hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha!
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Dude, where have you been? Welcome back. 8)
thanks man,
i've been doing some soul searching, contemplating life, love, the universe, and bodybuilding.
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More of the robbery
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its like dana white always says you cant let it go to the judges scorecards
Exactly! Dave Henry should have gone for the knockout.
Marty31672, hows the knee injury? When you do UFC training it's only a matter of time when something gives out.
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More of the robbery
Holy crap! I think this is the best Henry has ever looked!
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Marty31672, hows the knee injury? When you do UFC training it's only a matter of time when something gives out.
hi pellius
my knee still hurts but its getting better
my friend gave me this special cream i can rub on it to help it heal
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Judges have some 'splainin' to do.
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chick - speak on this travesty of justice.
how can you look dave henry in the eye after he busted his ass in the gym, half starved to death, and risked his long term health shooting thousands of grams of steroids, only to be robbed by some skinny twinks who clearly know nothing about bodybuilding.
who will help dave if you do not ?
what exactly does an athletes rep do if not stand against shit like this ?
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ANY "SPORT" THAT HAS JUDGES AIN'T A SPORT. EXAMPLES: ICE-SKATING, DIVING, SYNCRONIZED SWIMMING, ETC
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who were the judges ?
anyone know their names ?
we need to expose these clowns, and run them out of bodybuilding for good.
something is seriously not right.
i asked my 75 year old granny to look at these pics and asked her who looked better, she could even tell henry looked better.
i wonder if the judges are sponsors of the winner ::)
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Wow, a travesty indeed.
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This was nothing compared to the Teen Nationals, the judges gave it to Nick and Cody destroyed him. Ofcourse Nick trains with Kevin English and is sponsored by Gaspari.
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ANY "SPORT" THAT HAS JUDGES AIN'T A SPORT. EXAMPLES: ICE-SKATING, DIVING, SYNCRONIZED SWIMMING, ETC
That's a dumb opinion, no offense
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This was nothing compared to the Teen Nationals, the judges gave it to Nick and Cody destroyed him. Ofcourse Nick trains with Kevin English and is sponsored by Gaspari.
Just saw the pics from the Teen Nats, that's a disgrace.. Wtf is wrong with judging this weekend?
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ANY "SPORT" THAT HAS JUDGES AIN'T A SPORT. EXAMPLES: ICE-SKATING, DIVING, SYNCRONIZED SWIMMING, ETC
True, I never thought boxing was a sport ::)
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DH beat that mofo, make the Judges answer , publish their names.
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jose was about as dry adn crisp as anyone could hope to get............he was in better condition then henry...........who himself was in great condition
but that being said. as "on" as jose was, he could simply not keep up with david structurally...........t he difference in condition was not that great
this was a good ole' fashioned IFBB judging travesty
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Hahaha, Epic Fail by the IFBB judges. :-\
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ANY "SPORT" THAT HAS JUDGES AIN'T A SPORT. EXAMPLES: ICE-SKATING, DIVING, SYNCRONIZED SWIMMING, ETC
a wise statement. bodybuilding shows are business events.
nothing is judged except how best placings will effect various aspects of business.
a controversial win can be excellent for any and all money making aspects of the business.
same with popular wins. like all of bodybuilding, it aint rocket science. nuff criminals here
this should be easy to understand (http://www.freejunknstuff.com/laf.gif)
proven by the fact the money trail amongst mags, supp co's, etc. all goes in a circle.
kinda like bob chic who will be here to apply the necessary ifbb cockstroke to dispute my allegations.
short version. all of bodybuilding and it's associated businesses are virtually all scams.
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ANY "SPORT" THAT HAS JUDGES AIN'T A SPORT. EXAMPLES: ICE-SKATING, DIVING, SYNCRONIZED SWIMMING, ETC
So, you're saying Boxing is not a sport?
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jose was about as dry adn crisp as anyone could hope to get............he was in better condition then henry...........who himself was in great condition
but that being said. as "on" as jose was, he could simply not keep up with david structurally...........t he difference in condition was not that great
this was a good ole' fashioned IFBB judging travesty
No he wasn't
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No he wasn't
X2
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So, you're saying Boxing is not a sport?
Boxing is somewhat of an exception. The point is there is trpically, even in boxing, never a clear cut winner whenever human beings have to 'judge' who won.
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jose was about as dry adn crisp as anyone could hope to get............he was in better condition then henry...........who himself was in great condition
I don't agree at all. The natural Jose looks bloated. Henry was in better condition, the word crisp comes to mind. The skin sits better on him.
This was a scandalous decision.
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Boxing is somewhat of an exception. The point is there is trpically, even in boxing, never a clear cut winner whenever human beings have to 'judge' who won.
How about wrestling ,MMA and gymnastics ?
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How about wrestling ,MMA and gymnastics ?
Yes, nothing against those 'sports' but they're being judged by humans. You know what humans regularly make besides feces? Errors!
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How about wrestling ,MMA and gymnastics ?
Tennis? Karate? Fencing? Olympic weightlifting?
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Tennis? Karate? Fencing? Olympic weightlifting?
en garde
(http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/6000/6021/fencing_6_lg.gif)
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No he wasn't
(let me retiterate that i believe henry still should have won)
............Yes he was
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_0502wtmk_XRBTXBXTWZ.JPG)
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_0552wtmk_GUECHNJRCG.JPG)
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_0509wtmk_BPKZNJIHVN.JPG)
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_0563wtmk_GENRQPLCPZ.JPG)
you have to seperate yourself from david henry looking better and being more muscular..........anyone who knows bodybuilding will tell you that jose was in better condition
he was dry and striated all over........david henry was only striateed in his chest.......his glutes were way softer.........his whole body was softer then jose
like is said, i dont think this slight edge in condition warrents jose winning, but i do acknowledge he was in slightly better condition
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Jose is a percent or two drier than DH and has better upper legs & quad sweep, but David Henry looks more impressive overall and should've won.
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This was clearly the worst judged show in history.... like someone said 'what were the judges looking at' ?!!
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Yeah looking at those pics Jose was a bit leaner in the glutes and hams. However maybe a bit more water on his upper body from the rear (the skin doesn't sit as nicely on the arms, delts and back). He was better than last show where he was more bloated.
Last show
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_8316wtmk_MVKMRNRBDV.JPG)
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jose was about as dry adn crisp as anyone could hope to get............he was in better condition then henry...........who himself was in great condition
but that being said. as "on" as jose was, he could simply not keep up with david structurally...........t he difference in condition was not that great
this was a good ole' fashioned IFBB judging travesty
Couldn't have said it better
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(let me retiterate that i believe henry still should have won)
............Yes he was
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_0502wtmk_XRBTXBXTWZ.JPG)
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_0552wtmk_GUECHNJRCG.JPG)
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_0509wtmk_BPKZNJIHVN.JPG)
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_0563wtmk_GENRQPLCPZ.JPG)
you have to seperate yourself from david henry looking better and being more muscular..........anyone who knows bodybuilding will tell you that jose was in better condition
he was dry and striated all over........david henry was only striateed in his chest.......his glutes were way softer.........his whole body was softer then jose
like is said, i dont think this slight edge in condition warrents jose winning, but i do acknowledge he was in slightly better condition
Well, I know bodybuilding, and at best their conditioning was equal but Henry still looks drier.
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Well, I know bodybuilding, and at best their conditioning was equal but Henry still looks drier.
no, he was more muscular and better balanced...........not drier
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no, he was more muscular and better balanced...........not drier
I still see water in Jose's back hindering some definition. Jose's hams and calves are possibly a tad drier than David's but David's quads overall from top to bottom look drier. Front upper is very close but if you look at the serratus and obliques, David is for sure drier.
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who were the judges ?
anyone know their names ?
we need to expose these clowns, and run them out of bodybuilding for good.
something is seriously not right.
i asked my 75 year old granny to look at these pics and asked her who looked better, she could even tell henry looked better.
i wonder if the judges are sponsors of the winner ::)
Doesn't matter, I've been calling them out for years and not one has ever had the balls to respond. Give it up, bodybuilding is a criminal scam.
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Yes, nothing against those 'sports' but they're being judged by humans. You know what humans regularly make besides feces? Errors!
Oh fuck....quit comparing bodybuilding to real sports with REAL athletes, just compare it to beauty contests.
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Henry is a fucking monster at that bodyweight. This is a clear victory for him, if he did not win that is just a fucking disgrace. I have been around bbing since 1994 and I can tell you from a purely subjective point of view the man on the right is not just the winner but a clear and easy winner.
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Should Henry have won? While yes he should have. But let me say something that might make some sense to some of you. Henry is one of the shortest bodybuilders on the planet. Which means he should be able to squat heavy ass weight all fucking day long. However, he has semi-weak thighs. Yet, if you look at his legs, they have the ability to be fucking huge. Which leads me to believe that Henry isn't training them right(hard, heavy). And if truth be told, is very lazy when it comes to leg training. This midgets quads should be fucking massive. And any judge over the height of 5'10 knows that he is being lazy(pussy) when it comes to leg training. And the fact that his mellon just keeps on growing while his legs don't, isn't helping the matter.
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Raymond looks great for a natural (at least that what he claims).
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soft glutes, poor quad sweep, and lack of hair development
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Raymond looks great for a natural (at least that what he claims).
Are you kidding. He dosen't claim to be natural anymore. He said it on a open forum. People would be retarted to think he is natural at 202# at 5'3"
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hahahah, i'm not a Dave Henry fan, but this is pathetic.
Maybe they should fly all judges on a trip to Thailand, first get eye surgery and then relax two weeks with some hot ladyboys so they can actually concentrate on doing their jobs right.
Pathetic!!
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hahaha what shit. ifbb is such a great organization ::)
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Are you kidding. He dosen't claim to be natural anymore. He said it on a open forum. People would be retarted to think he is natural at 202# at 5'3"
Link to where he admitted to juicing?
I don't know what he claims or doesn't now, but Ron Harris said he believed Jose to be a natural a year ago. So he must have thought Jose still played the natural card.
Jose never competed naturally of course. At least not natural in any of the competition galleries on MD.
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It has been said before; Bodybuilding has the WORST judging criteria ever made on this planet. :-\
I am not a huge fan of David Hennery, but I really feel sorry for him and for the fans. :-[
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The judges should be accountable and have there name and scores posted.
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Henry is gifted - clear winner.
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Oh fuck....quit comparing bodybuilding to real sports with REAL athletes, just compare it to beauty contests.
or drag shows ! all politics !!!
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Henry looks like a small version of coleman..
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Henry looks like a small version of coleman..
Coleman XS.
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The judges should be accountable and have there name and scores posted.
and that would make zero difference.
these events are not judged they are decided.
see many of you are missing the point. instead
your falling right in line. many who spend money on bodybuilding
are arguing about the outcome of this event, they decided a return
match is worth more money to them. like the olympia or sumthin.
more nimrods will buy tickets and mags. one with david on the cover and
the other with the other felon. emm fella on the cover. etc etc.
coach has a clue. the rest, not so much.
henry is one of the view felons builds i like. training style. still a felon
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Henry has a better upper-body
Jose has a better lower body
Jose has better conditioning
maybe the one contest where politics and sponsorships weren't a judging criteria
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and that would make zero difference.
these events are not judged they are decided.
see many of you are missing the point. instead
your falling right in line. many who spend money on bodybuilding
are arguing about the outcome of this event, they decided a return
match is worth more money to them. like the olympia or sumthin.
more nimrods will buy tickets and mags. one with david on the cover and
the other with the other felon. emm fella on the cover. etc etc.
coach has a clue. the rest, not so much.
henry is one of the view felons builds i like. training style. still a felon
actually there is lots we can do.
once we get the names of these impostors, and find out the supplement companies, gyms, businesses they are linked too, we can boycott them.
we can expose them in every show they judge, we can publicly expose them as being corrupt and not fit to judge.
we can also spread the word about these clowns on every major bodybuilding board on the net - further turning up the pressure on these judging impostors.
getbig has a big voice in the ifbb - we only have to use it.
it would also be nice if the guy who's job it is to stand up for, and represent the athletes of this sport would make a statement regarding this sham of a contest.
we know dave henry has always been very opinionated on his past shows. this has perhaps made him disliked by some, but regardless of what you think about his personality - he deserved this show.
what if this shit happened at the mr o ? he would lose thousands of $ because of 'blatant cheating' 'poor judging' or 'honest mistakes'.
all of which can and should be avoided.
every year the ifbb gets more and more ridiculous, and every year loses more and more credibility.
10 years ago there was talk about bodybuilding appearing at the olympics, now ? we have openly sexual strip shows by pros on stage, exposed ass shots in the biggest bodybuilding publication ( kai ass shots in flex recently), and openly persuing a gay audience and fan base.
the golden agers must be turning in their graves.
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*awaits chick's reply on how the judging is 100% fair, and how jose was the clear cut winner*
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*awaits chick's reply on how the judging is 100% fair, and how jose was the clear cut winner, and how he has never been to any hotel rooms next to an ice machine*
fixed
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don't expect anything to be done by Chick, he still says Cutler actually deserved the 07 Olympia title
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fixed
good call. problem is, it has been verified by multiple sources that consist of eye witness accounts of chick being at the mirage hotel that night and 'performing'.
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actually there is lots we can do.
once we get the names of these impostors, and find out the supplement companies, gyms, businesses they are linked too, we can boycott them.
we can expose them in every show they judge, we can publicly expose them as being corrupt and not fit to judge.
we can also spread the word about these clowns on every major bodybuilding board on the net - further turning up the pressure on these judging impostors.
getbig has a big voice in the ifbb - we only have to use it.
it would also be nice if the guy who's job it is to stand up for, and represent the athletes of this sport would make a statement regarding this sham of a contest.
we know dave henry has always been very opinionated on his past shows. this has perhaps made him disliked by some, but regardless of what you think about his personality - he deserved this show.
what if this shit happened at the mr o ? he would lose thousands of $ because of 'blatant cheating' 'poor judging' or 'honest mistakes'.
all of which can and should be avoided.
every year the ifbb gets more and more ridiculous, and every year loses more and more credibility.
10 years ago there was talk about bodybuilding appearing at the olympics, now ? we have openly sexual strip shows by pros on stage, exposed ass shots in the biggest bodybuilding publication ( kai ass shots in flex recently), and openly persuing a gay audience and fan base.
the golden agers must be turning in their graves.
Well...here is something unique, someone doesnt agree with a judging decision, now its a big conspiracy and all the judges dont know what they're doing, etc....
It's a competition decided by a panel of judges...each with a opinion of their own. By a scoring system which is based on a average of those scores...we get our final placings.
I can find just as many supporters (and argument) for Jose winning, as I can for DH. It's not like Jose is some sort of slouch..he has more titles than all the guys he faced...COMBINED. A multi national, USA, Team U winner in 3 different weight classes.
On a different day, with a different panel, perhaps it goes Davids way...this time it didnt.
I think the panel did a great job overall...you can always make a case for a placing here and there...bottom line is, live vs pictures/ video are two different worlds.
I thought Ed Nunn could have won last week...he was 4th. This week he wins. It's the nature of competition...some get better, some worse, some stay the same....different panel, different lighting, etc.
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*awaits chick's reply on how the judging is 100% fair, and how jose was the clear cut winner*
Read the above response for your answer...nothing is "clear cut", as there are arguments for any number of competitors.
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Judging sucks period all biased.
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good call. problem is, it has been verified by multiple sources that consist of eye witness accounts of chick being at the mirage hotel that night and 'performing'.
LOL
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Judging sucks period all biased.
Biased towards WHO?
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Well...here is something unique, someone doesnt agree with a judging decision, now its a big conspiracy and all the judges dont know what they're doing, etc....
It's a competition decided by a panel of judges...each with a opinion of their own. By a scoring system which is based on a average of those scores...we get our final placings.
I can find just as many supporters (and argument) for Jose winning, as I can for DH. It's not like Jose is some sort of slouch..he has more titles than all the guys he faced...COMBINED. A multi national, USA, Team U winner in 3 different weight classes.
On a different day, with a different panel, perhaps it goes Davids way...this time it didnt.
I think the panel did a great job overall...you can always make a case for a placing here and there...bottom line is, live vs pictures/ video are two different worlds.
I thought Ed Nunn could have won last week...he was 4th. This week he wins. It's the nature of competition...some get better, some worse, some stay the same....different panel, different lighting, etc.
I have heard many times over from people who have been to bodybuilding shows or competed in them say how it is not fair to compare and make judgments just based on pictures because do to lighting, angles ect, it can make competitors look much different than what they look like seeing them live. I would be interested in hearing what the people who actually saw this show live have to say about the placings and how the crown reacted when the placings were announced.
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Chick, One question. I attended this show and sat through the prejudging and finals, Why do they only announce the top three winners and send the rest of the competitors home and post the placings later when everyone is gone. I think the top ten at the very least should be announced. My first reaction is disapointment then suspicion that the judges dont want to have to face the crowd or the competitors with their decisions.
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Well...here is something unique, someone doesnt agree with a judging decision, now its a big conspiracy and all the judges dont know what they're doing, etc....
It's a competition decided by a panel of judges...each with a opinion of their own. By a scoring system which is based on a average of those scores...we get our final placings.
I can find just as many supporters (and argument) for Jose winning, as I can for DH. It's not like Jose is some sort of slouch..he has more titles than all the guys he faced...COMBINED. A multi national, USA, Team U winner in 3 different weight classes.
On a different day, with a different panel, perhaps it goes Davids way...this time it didnt.
I think the panel did a great job overall...you can always make a case for a placing here and there...bottom line is, live vs pictures/ video are two different worlds.
I thought Ed Nunn could have won last week...he was 4th. This week he wins. It's the nature of competition...some get better, some worse, some stay the same....different panel, different lighting, etc.
typical company man response. ::)
everyone who saw the show live, on video, or in pics says the same - dave henry was the clear winner.
but you are sitting there telling me, dave henry and thousands of others who can judge fairly that the judges were correct ???
pathetic response from a pathetic excuse of an athletes rep.
you should resign from your position immediately, it is clear that you will never stand up for someone against 'the man'.
how can you look at yourself in the mirror ?
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the only reason jose raymond is even a pro is just bc him and his brother sucked off and kissed ass to npc and ifbb political figures for years, tito couldnt even win a usa class bc he so called didnt want to take more steroids than he was, and jose was never even a good bodybuilder at all, dave henry should be given the win..............bbing and its judges are some shitty entities.........obvious ly politics are still more atop the agenda than giving who and what is due, their rightful due...........dave henry you look fuckin great man, you won this show, you make jose raymond look like a slab of refried beans.
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I remember when jose raymond was 165 lbs at golds venice and could never beat tito, and they both couldnt even win a queen pageant, on drugs.
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I remember when jose raymond was 165 lbs at golds venice and could never beat tito, and they both couldnt even win a queen pageant, on drugs.
yeah and the both claimed to be ''natural'' ::)
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do the math:
David Henry has the better upper body. that's half the physique. Jose has the better lower body. that's the OTHER HALF of the physique
Jose has MUCH better overall conditioning (ESPECIALLY LOWER BODY - David was SOFT)
Jose has the advantage - Jose wins
it's like if both had a pair of 10's and Jose had an ace high, David had a jack high
David Henry winning would have been a case of politics and "names" - they called this one fairly
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ohh just a side note to amy raymond, all those years you were preaching on camera that tito was the only natural bber, he was on a ton of drugs........yeah get it right.
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good to see the 07 Olympia judges are still employed
Most correct post in a long time
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do the math:
David Henry has the better upper body. that's half the physique. Jose has the better lower body. that's the OTHER HALF of the physique
Jose has MUCH better overall conditioning (ESPECIALLY LOWER BODY - David was SOFT)
Jose has the advantage - Jose wins
it's like if both had a pair of 10's and Jose had an ace high, David had a jack high
David Henry winning would have been a case of politics and "names" - they called this one fairly
Much better conditioning? What show were you watching? Jose had him in the lower half (hams, glutes calves) but David had him both upper body back and front. Quads, David's looked drier overall from knee to waist. Jose was holding noticable water in his back and serratus/obliques were not as dry as David's.
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I can find just as many supporters (and argument) for Jose winning, as I can for DH.
::)
You won't find them here .
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All in all this was David's first show back after his surgery and lay off and he looked pretty damn good. He'll only get better as the season progresses
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Herny was the clear winner to the public and judges except that jury.
Jose won after all, he is the winner this time.
So if we try to be smart, the result of this is look for every judge scores and in the future, get in or get out from the judges group. If you donīt do this, next time this happens again, the guilty will be not the judges or we can think about "something dark" after all.
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nothing can change or be repaired in bb.
the competitors all commit felonies to participate.
the orgs and bobbeh endorse promote and benefit
monetarily from these crimes. let's don't mention sup scams.
how ya fix that unless you kill them all.
please enlighten
you tards may continue yelling back and forth
about a contest that was never contested. never held.
oh there was a presentation for homosexuals. ask bobbeh
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typical company man response by chick.
did anyone honestly expect anything different?
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jose was about as dry adn crisp as anyone could hope to get............he was in better condition then henry...........who himself was in great condition
but that being said. as "on" as jose was, he could simply not keep up with david structurally...........t he difference in condition was not that great
this was a good ole' fashioned IFBB judging travesty
exactly. If bodybuilding was purely about conditioning then guys like paco would be winning more contests. what trumps what? conditioning over size? esthetic's over conditioning? Structurally Henry is way above Jose, and i do not think his conditioning was much better if it was at all.
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It's a competition decided by a panel of judges...each with a opinion of their own.
On a different day, with a different panel, perhaps it goes Davids way...this time it didnt.
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so opinion decides the winners? dont the judges have specific criteria to follow and score by?
...and if they do have specific criteria to judge by, a different panel of judegs should come to the same conclusion (i.e. raymond over henry), shouldnt they?
OR, do no actual judging criteria exist?
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The only thing Jose Raymond has on DH, is that he can say that his sister in law (Amy Fadhli) prettier than DH's wife. Or that he doesn't look like a cartoon kiddy vampire when he smiles. Other than that, DH blows him out of the water...this only sets the 202s up to be a big fight, unfortunately for the structurally challenged and mega I'll equipped Jose Raymond, this "fight" will be like a pit versus a bull...one dead pit.
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parker u said it, the only reason jose is even up there is he is tied in politically with the industry, I remember he couldnt even make top 5 at a local LA max muscle contest.
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Everyone's saying that DH's posing and presentation was off. The pics don't tell the full story.
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Link to where he admitted to juicing?
I don't know what he claims or doesn't now, but Ron Harris said he believed Jose to be a natural a year ago. So he must have thought Jose still played the natural card.
Jose never competed naturally of course. At least not natural in any of the competition galleries on MD.
Originally Posted by Jude2
I don't think Jose claims to be natural anymore. He got the win and he is in the mix with the best 202's in the World.
That is correct - but he won national titles 6X in 4 different wt classes when he was natural, both at tested and non-tested national shows.
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jose and tito both have been juicing since they were 17
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Cswol, you seem to be connected. Tell me some good stories.
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so opinion decides the winners? dont the judges have specific criteria to follow and score by?
...and if they do have specific criteria to judge by, a different panel of judegs should come to the same conclusion (i.e. raymond over henry), shouldnt they?
OR, do no actual judging criteria exist?
The only "specific" criteria, is the mandatory poses, individual routine, and quarter turns be completed...everything else is ultimately a judges opinion. Are the based on criteria? Of course...hard to be specific when it comes to words like symmetry, proportion, shape, dryness, conditioned, and presentation.
These are guidelines which are observed when assessing a physique, but as you can see even in this thread, opinions varry. I can make a case for either one of them...
When it comes to a point system...all it takes is one more judge to make it swing the other way...highs and lows are thrown out, whats left is the median score.
Whats funny, is people expressing THEIR opinion in absolutes, then blasting the judges for their own...
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The only "specific" criteria, is the mandatory poses, individual routine, and quarter turns be completed...everything else is ultimately a judges opinion. Are the based on criteria? Of course...hard to be specific when it comes to words like symmetry, proportion, shape, dryness, conditioned, and presentation.
These are guidelines which are observed when assessing a physique, but as you can see even in this thread, opinions varry. I can make a case for either one of them...
When it comes to a pint system...all it takes is one more judge to make it swing the other way...highs and lows are thrown out, whats left is the median score.
Bob, this pretty much goes without saying but you'll be at the USAs correct?
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I use to know alot of pros past and present, man training at golds venice for nearly 10 years, i seen and heard it all.........tito raymond is a fraud, was never natural, and his brother is getting early christmas gifts............I remember one day I went to the back of gold's, and saw paul demayo training arms when he was trying to make a comeback, must have been about 2002, he wasnt super huge, probly 280, I was shocked to see him, because everyone was saying hes washed up................it was cool to see him, bc he soon died later............I use to see trevor smith when he was 400, before he died.......this was when I was coming back up, I didnt get big by golds venice standards until about 2003, because I hadnt trained serious for a while........ohh aaron baker is kind of an asshole, the coolest pros............are..... ..forgive me.....craig titus and I use to talk about stuff.........ronnie coleman is cool.......and flex wheeler is a great guy........there are a ton of other people I use to talk to and stuff but you know........thats the past.........ohhh rick valente is the coolest and great guy also...he vouched for me at golds at times when management would harrass me for training hard, and charles glass would too.
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Bob, this pretty much goes without saying but you'll be at the USAs correct?
Unfortunately, it doesnt go without saying, as you see by some of the responses in this thread....you have more experience and knowledge than the average here.
Yes sir, Vegas this weekend...see you there?
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Unfortunately, it doesnt go without saying, as you see by some of the responses in this thread....you have more experience and knowledge than the average here.
Yes sir, Vegas this weekend...see you there?
Yes Sir. I'll be there. 8)
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I use to know alot of pros past and present, man training at golds venice for nearly 10 years, i seen and heard it all.........tito raymond is a fraud, was never natural, and his brother is getting early christmas gifts............I remember one day I went to the back of gold's, and saw paul demayo training arms when he was trying to make a comeback, must have been about 2002, he wasnt super huge, probly 280, I was shocked to see him, because everyone was saying hes washed up................it was cool to see him, bc he soon died later............I use to see trevor smith when he was 400, before he died.......this was when I was coming back up, I didnt get big by golds venice standards until about 2003, because I hadnt trained serious for a while........ohh aaron baker is kind of an asshole, the coolest pros............are..... ..forgive me.....craig titus and I use to talk about stuff.........ronnie coleman is cool.......and flex wheeler is a great guy........there are a ton of other people I use to talk to and stuff but you know........thats the past.........ohhh rick valente is the coolest and great guy also...he vouched for me at golds at times when management would harrass me for training hard, and charles glass would too.
Harass you for training hard? Were you making noises or dropping weights? I remember Trevor. I met him at the O expo a couple times. Cool fella and huge. He had an awesome board. How was Aaron an asshole? LOL @ Titus being cool. He had charm and charisma but I'd never turn my back to him.
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Everyone's saying that DH's posing and presentation was off. The pics don't tell the full story.
Very true, on pictures alone we have no idea how good their posing routine was, but how much weight does the routine carry? I really have no idea, perhaps Chick can enlighten us. Can having a far superior posing routine make up for having less conditioning or symetry? i am being totally serious here and honestly appreciate your answer.
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Very true, on pictures alone we have no idea how good their posing routine was, but how much weight does the routine carry? I really have no idea, perhaps Chick can enlighten us. Can having a far superior posing routine make up for having less conditioning or symetry? i am being totally serious here and honestly appreciate your answer.
I've never known a posing routine to make any difference. Ronnie was winning the posing round against the likes of Flex, Kevin and Shawn during his Mr. Olympia reign, and he completely sucked at posing and routines were brutally awful. In the past, whoever the judges want to win usually win the posing round too. Go figure.
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IFBB judging = WWE fights.
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Farah has really made a name for himself
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/contests/2010-battle-of-champions/3194-202-winner-jose-raymond-talks-to-rodney-roller.html
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Originally Posted by Jude2
I don't think Jose claims to be natural anymore. He got the win and he is in the mix with the best 202's in the World.
That is correct - but he won national titles 6X in 4 different wt classes when he was natural, both at tested and non-tested national shows.
__________________
www.ronharrismuscle.com
Proud member of TEAM GASPARI NUTRITION
www.gasparinutrition.com
That's Ron Harris talking, not Jose, and it's not even an admission.
Look at this mother fucker of a thread, where Ron says he believe Raymond to be natural:
http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=65369
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its well know in the industry that bob dont care about helping the athletes or making sure they get judged correctly
he could give a flying fajita
as long as hes got his fancy bsn contract and his penthouse and rickty old treadmill then hes happy
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This is one of the biggest loads of garbage i've read. Bob, get in touch with reality. There are times when a clear winner is not easily seen, but in this case, it was like comparing arnold swarzenegger to vince goodrum. There is no way to "swing" it either way depending on the "day". Thats a load of crap.
You should NOT be an athletes rep. You represent everything thats wrong with bodybuilding, and you have the spine of a freakin jelly fish. Stand up and show some integrity for once. David Henry was the CLEAR winner. There is no way to "explain" it away. anyone with eyes can see this. You have zero honesty or integrity when it comes to these matters, and shouldn't be representing the athletes. they'll probably tell david henry, "well, you should have sucked more cock and maybe you would have won"..... what a joke bbing is now days.
That's so true and beautifully said .
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its well know in the industry that bob dont care about helping the athletes or making sure they get judged correctly
he could give a flying fajita
as long as hes got his fancy bsn contract and his penthouse and rickty old treadmill then hes happy
Has Chick ever answered any of your BSN supplement questions Gene? I know you have asked multiple times.
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Has Chick ever answered any of you BSN supplement questions Gene? I know you have asked multiple times.
NEVER
JUST UNPROVOKED INSULTS TOWARDS ME EACH AND EVERY TIME
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No matter from which angle you see it, Bob Chick is pathetic.
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Bob,
Can you post a copy of the police report? Dave Henry was clearly robbed.
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Bob, are you going to stand for this? The people are fed up and demand answers. Chaos is among us and the volcano is ready to explode! Now's the time to unleash your superior wit and intelligence
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Bob, are you going to stand for this? The people are fed up and demand answers. Chaos is among us and the volcano is ready to explode! Now's the time to unleash your superior wit and intelligence
his possible replies will be:
"queen team assemble"
"while u were online, i was out shaking hands and kissing babies"
"scram loser"
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To say Dave Henry got robbed is an understatement. WTF, judges?! >:(
I know bodybuilding is really subjective, but geezus! Dave was the clear winner right there!
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That's Ron Harris talking, not Jose, and it's not even an admission.
Look at this mother fucker of a thread, where Ron says he believe Raymond to be natural:
http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=65369
I read a thread where Jose stated he dosen't claim to be natural anymore. They are not going to admit to taking drugs on an open forum. It would be like saying hey I am breaking the law. You know Ron would do anything to protect his boy Jose. I think the supplements he uses now is what prevents him from having the deep seperation that he use to have when he was about 50 pounds lighter.
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Very true, on pictures alone we have no idea how good their posing routine was, but how much weight does the routine carry? I really have no idea, perhaps Chick can enlighten us. Can having a far superior posing routine make up for having less conditioning or symetry? i am being totally serious here and honestly appreciate your answer.
The routine counts for ZERO points, as it should.
The posedown is counted, and between that and the final round of comparisons, they both account for 50% of the score....
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The routine counts for ZERO points, as it should.
The posedown is counted, and between that and the final round of comparisons, they both account for 50% of the score....
Thanks Bob.
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his possible replies will be:
"queen team assemble"
"while u were online, i was out shaking hands and kissing babies"
"scram loser"
I much look forward to hearing about your life than his, yours is more exciting, his is just...
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This is one of the biggest loads of garbage i've read. Bob, get in touch with reality. There are times when a clear winner is not easily seen, but in this case, it was like comparing arnold swarzenegger to vince goodrum. There is no way to "swing" it either way depending on the "day". Thats a load of crap.
You should NOT be an athletes rep. You represent everything thats wrong with bodybuilding, and you have the spine of a freakin jelly fish. Stand up and show some integrity for once. David Henry was the CLEAR winner. There is no way to "explain" it away. anyone with eyes can see this. You have zero honesty or integrity when it comes to these matters, and shouldn't be representing the athletes. they'll probably tell david henry, "well, you should have sucked more cock and maybe you would have won"..... what a joke bbing is now days.
100% spot on. not surprising to see chick dodge this one.
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I still see water in Jose's back hindering some definition. Jose's hams and calves are possibly a tad drier than David's but David's quads overall from top to bottom look drier. Front upper is very close but if you look at the serratus and obliques, David is for sure drier.
What the fuck is this "Drier" BS...it's fat! stubborn fucking fat...In most cases holding water is just the biggest BB excuse ever >:(
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do the math:
David Henry has the better upper body. that's half the physique. Jose has the better lower body. that's the OTHER HALF of the physique
Jose has MUCH better overall conditioning (ESPECIALLY LOWER BODY - David was SOFT)
Jose has the advantage - Jose wins
it's like if both had a pair of 10's and Jose had an ace high, David had a jack high
David Henry winning would have been a case of politics and "names" - they called this one fairly
IMO Jose's presentation and posing is also better too (More Polished).. David Henry looks a bit awkward on stage sometimes.
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haha, so Dave came up a little short, huh? ;D
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They are not going to admit to taking drugs on an open forum. It would be like saying hey I am breaking the law. You know Ron would do anything to protect his boy Jose.
That is complete bullshit and you know it. Have you ever read MD, the magazine? It's a fucking drug journal with tons of talk about what you need to compete as a pro. Other pros on MD talk about using drugs all the time. At least be like Chick and say you have a script.
It has nothing to do with fearing the law. They lie because they are scum. :D
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From some of the photographers there, and not the judges, they said David Henry was clear on and better from the front, but his legs were just not as big and shaped as Jose Raymond.
That being said, these pics here clearly show David Henry having the better physique, but I wasnt there.
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O.K, so Raymond has bigger quads, and non-existent calves.
His conditioning may have been better, but his delts look like nothing next to David's cannon balls. (Delts, that is)
Raymonds arms look smaller by comparison.
Raymonds glutes may have been more striated, but the overall package didn't appear to be a close-call.
It just looks like Raymond has huge freaking quads and great conditioning. Is that enough to win unanimously (or not) against someone who ALMOST has the perfect package?
Would Raymond have beaten Lee Priest too?
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so, everybody hates chick
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chick is "playing the game"...and i can see where he's coming from to a certain extent...BUT, someone like that shouldnt be an Athletes rep, NOR should they be on here trying to shovel loads of crap at us about the "judging" as if we are supposed to believe the garbage being spewed out. if he doesnt want to be honest, then he shouldnt comment at all.
What does me explaining how the judging works, and possibly how the judges cdame to their conclusion, have to do with my duties as a rep? You, you believe I should make some ruckus every time an athlete thinks he should have won, or placed higher??
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What does me explaining how the judging works, and possibly how the judges cdame to their conclusion, have to do with my duties as a rep? You, you believe I should make some ruckus every time an athlete thinks he should have won, or placed higher??
You still have the best damn head of hair in the business!
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You still have the best damn head of artificial hair in the business!
Fixed
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chick is "playing the game"...and i can see where he's coming from to a certain extent...BUT, someone like that shouldnt be an Athletes rep, NOR should they be on here trying to shovel loads of crap at us about the "judging" as if we are supposed to believe the garbage being spewed out. if he doesnt want to be honest, then he shouldnt comment at all.
Exactly why he is a "good" rep. He never forgets who's signing his paychecks. Good soldier that is.
(http://pierrebayle.typepad.com/pensees_sur_la_planete/WindowsLiveWriter/2%20-%20chef%20de%20char%20Lineol.jpg)
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Exactly why he is a "good" rep. He never forgets who's signing his paychecks. Good soldier that is.
(http://pierrebayle.typepad.com/pensees_sur_la_planete/WindowsLiveWriter/2%20-%20chef%20de%20char%20Lineol.jpg)
Being that there is no paycheck for the job...just who do you believe that to be?
Real simple..this isnt a AR issue, nor have I been contacted by any of the competitors with any complaints.
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what exactly do you do to help the athletes then Chick?
would the athletes be better off forming a pro bbers union?
I already tried that years ago, with little to no support from the athletes themselves...thus the AR position was created.
As for what I do for the athletes...you tell me. You obviously thought you were qualified enough to make a comment as to why I shouldn't be, surely you know what I've done and my role...
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From some of the photographers there, and not the judges, they said David Henry was clear on and better from the front, but his legs were just not as big and shaped as Jose Raymond.
That being said, these pics here clearly show David Henry having the better physique, but I wasnt there.
You can't judge a bodybuilding show off of pics only.
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You can't judge a bodybuilding show off of pics only.
bullshit ! your trying to tell me cameras somehow make some bodybuilders look worse and others look better ?
hahahahahahahahahah nonsense.
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let me make something else clear as well, i have no beef with you personally bob. you do a good job being in the public eye, BUT, as far as 'helping' the athletes, or being honest about judging results, you arent trustworthy imo.
it would be good to talk to the pros and see how they feel. starting with david henry.
So now you admit to not know what I do, or have done for the athletes...but based on your lack of knowledge and nothing credible to offer, you believe me to be not trustworthy?
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So now you admit to not know what I do, or have done for the athletes...but based on your lack of knowledge and nothing credible to offer, you believe me to be not trustworthy?
as an athletes rep you should bring up the diabolical judging seen at this comp for a start.
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as an athletes rep you should bring up the diabolical judging seen at this comp for a start.
According to who?
What other great injustices do you think were handed out?
Feel free to give us YOUR order of placings
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According to who?
What other great injustices do you think were handed out?
Feel free to give us YOUR order of placings
according to everyone honest who saw it ::)
chick stop being a coward and admit henry was robbed.
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HAHAHA, people bitching about a white man robbing a black man. Isn't that ironic.
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dexter jacksons past 2 shows also comes to mind.
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according to everyone honest who saw it ::)
chick stop being a coward and admit henry was robbed.
Listen to the PBW replay, I gave my opinion that I believed DH was better....looks like you're talking out of your ass.
As for being "robbed", it comes down to an opinion of a panel of judges on a given day...
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hmm...
2006 Masters - Rusty Jeffers
robbed....just like David Henry...only worse...cause they didnt even have the courtesy to put him in the top 5.
What placing would you have given him?
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WTF were the judges looking at ??? seriously
Holy shit!! They both look great!! Henry looks pretty thick!! Might have been a judging fuck up but,, I guess if you're there in person,, the differance may have been more obvious!! Hard too say!!
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