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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on August 13, 2010, 06:12:21 PM
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What a shock.
Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
By the CNN Wire Staff
August 13, 2010
Washington (CNN) -- President Obama threw his support behind a controversial proposal to build an Islamic center and mosque near New York's ground zero, saying Friday that "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," according to remarks distributed by the White House.
"Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," Obama said, according to prepared remarks released before a speech.
"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said.
Obama was speaking at a White House Iftar dinner celebrating the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.
The president's remarks drew praise from New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who announced his support for the Islamic center last week.
Bloomberg compared Obama's speech to a letter President George Washington wrote in support of a Jewish congregation in Newport, Rhode Island. "President Obama's words tonight evoked President Washington's own August reminder that 'all possess alike liberty,' " Bloomberg said in a statement.
"I applaud President Obama's clarion defense of the freedom of religion tonight," he said.
The president invoked the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, which critics of the Islamic center cite as the main reason for preventing its construction.
"We must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lower Manhattan," Obama said, according to his prepared remarks. "The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country."
"The pain and suffering experienced by those who lost loved ones is unimaginable," he continued. "So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground."
But Obama argued that American ideals and the Constitution demanded that the project proceed.
"This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable," he said. "The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure."
The proposed Islamic center has provoked vocal opposition from some families of 9/11 victims and other groups. Nearly 70 percent of Americans oppose the plan, according to CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll released Wednesday.
The project's leaders say they plan to build the $100 million, 13-story facility called Cordoba House three blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks. The developer, Sharif El-Gamal, describes the project as an "Islamic community center" that will include a 500-seat performing arts center, a lecture hall, a swimming pool, a gym, a culinary school, a restaurant and a prayer space for Muslims.
On Wednesday, the project's developers declined an offer by New York Gov. David Paterson to relocate the project to a state-owned site.
Earlier this month, the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission unanimously denied landmark status for the building where the proposed Islamic center would stand, allowing the project to move forward.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/13/obama.islamic.center.support/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
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Shocker.
::)
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if obama tried outlawing a christian church 10 blocks from oklahoma city, people would be shitting bricks.
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if obama tried outlawing a christian church 10 blocks from oklahoma city, people would be shitting bricks.
Doesn't matter the POTUS has no business showing support for any religion, let alone throwing out the usual political double speak about rights to practice religion. When in reality no one is telling Muslims they can't practice their religion.
For a supposed constitutional scholar he says some stupid shit.
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if obama tried outlawing a christian church 10 blocks from oklahoma city, people would be shitting bricks.
You don't get it do you? This has nothing to do with rights in regards to religion...zero, nothing, nada.
Doesn't matter the POTUS has no business showing support for any religion, let alone throwing out the usual political double speak about rights to practice religion. When in reality no one is telling Muslims they can't practice their religion.
For a supposed constitutional scholar he says some stupid shit.
Constitutional scholar or not, he's violated the very constitution he swore to uphold from day one. There have been a lot of "Bad" presidents over the year but as it stands now I don't know if there's ever been one who violates the constitution more than Obama. Now let me be clear, that only makes him a bad president if you are one who believes the constitution should be upheld, if not than hey, he may be the greatest president of all time...unfortunately some actually believe this.
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Doesn't matter the POTUS has no business showing support for any religion
agreed 1000%.
However, I'm not sure he is supporting their religion, per se. Rather, it looks to me like he's supporting a universal enforcement of the US' "freedom to practice religion" thing that the Constitution gives us.
"Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," Obama said, according to prepared remarks released before a speech.
"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said.
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Really it includes the RIGHT to build a place of worship, please show me exactly where the fuck that is written in the constitution
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Really it includes the RIGHT to build a place of worship, please show me exactly where the fuck that is written in the constitution
in response, PALIN tweeted:
Will Obama express US lingering pain& ask Muslims for tolerance by discouraging 9/11 mosque while he celebrates Islamic holy month tonight?
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in response, PALIN tweeted:
Will Obama express US lingering pain& ask Muslims for tolerance by discouraging 9/11 mosque while he celebrates Islamic holy month tonight?
You have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck what palin says, the question still stand
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if obama tried outlawing a christian church 10 blocks from oklahoma city, people would be shitting bricks.
I don’t recall Oklahoma City being propagated by a group of Christians in the name of Christianity, and with groups of Christians gleefully parading in the streets after the tragedy transpired.
Islam, on the other had, fits the above description to a "T" and I still fail to understand why you lobby so hard for the rights of a group of people who celebrated the deaths of 3,000 of your countrymen & women.
Why should people who wish for and celebrate our demise deserve the same rights that we have worked to earn and enjoy?
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I don’t recall Oklahoma City being propagated by a group of Christians in the name of Christianity, and with groups of Christians gleefully parading in the streets after the tragedy transpired.
Islam, on the other had, fits the above description to a "T" and I still fail to understand why you lobby so hard for the rights of a group of people who celebrated the deaths of 3,000 of your countrymen & women.
Why should people who wish for and celebrate our demise deserve the same rights that we have worked to earn and enjoy?
I'm not lobbying for any group.
I'm lobbying for enforcement of the constitution.
in no way do i endorse what they're doing - but giving the govt power to pick/choose which religions can practice where is a DANGEROUS precedent.
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I'm not lobbying for any group.
I'm lobbying for enforcement of the constitution.
in no way do i endorse what they're doing - but giving the govt power to pick/choose which religions can practice where is a DANGEROUS precedent.
Dangerous?
Dangerous?
The group of people I mention above is FUCKING DANGEROUS.
And, only a fool would want to grant them the same privileges and powers that we have.
Why the fuck would you want to extend the courtesies of our Constitution to people who are killing us?
You know what would be easier?
Why don’t you just supply them with the fucking Intel and weapons, and then get down on your knees and blow them before they blow your blind ass away, after which they’ll go pray to Allah in their fucking Mosque that you lobbied to have built in the interest of their fairness to our Constitution?
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Isn't the building of it called "The Cordoba Mosque Project"?
Interesting that the Muslim group behind this would name it this....
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The group of people I mention above is FUCKING DANGEROUS.
And, only a fool would want to grant them the same privileges and powers that we have.
then ship them to gitmo. are they even citizens? if not, the constitution doesn't apply to them. But if they are US citizens, who haven't brokwn a law... as much as i disagree with what they say - as long as they don't break any laws, what can you do?
Dont get me wrong, i'd happily plug 10 terrorists then enjoy a ham sandwich. I'm no sympathizer. if they are breaking the law in any way, you use the pat act, you find out, and you lock their asses up for the next 80 or 100 years. I have no prob with that.
but if their only crime was being smug pricks, then i dont support yanking their constitutional rights.
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What a shock.
Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
By the CNN Wire Staff
August 13, 2010
Washington (CNN) -- President Obama threw his support behind a controversial proposal to build an Islamic center and mosque near New York's ground zero, saying Friday that "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," according to remarks distributed by the White House.
"Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," Obama said, according to prepared remarks released before a speech.
"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said.
Obama was speaking at a White House Iftar dinner celebrating the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.
The president's remarks drew praise from New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who announced his support for the Islamic center last week.
Bloomberg compared Obama's speech to a letter President George Washington wrote in support of a Jewish congregation in Newport, Rhode Island. "President Obama's words tonight evoked President Washington's own August reminder that 'all possess alike liberty,' " Bloomberg said in a statement.
"I applaud President Obama's clarion defense of the freedom of religion tonight," he said.
The president invoked the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, which critics of the Islamic center cite as the main reason for preventing its construction.
"We must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lower Manhattan," Obama said, according to his prepared remarks. "The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country."
"The pain and suffering experienced by those who lost loved ones is unimaginable," he continued. "So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground."
But Obama argued that American ideals and the Constitution demanded that the project proceed.
"This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable," he said. "The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure."
The proposed Islamic center has provoked vocal opposition from some families of 9/11 victims and other groups. Nearly 70 percent of Americans oppose the plan, according to CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll released Wednesday.
The project's leaders say they plan to build the $100 million, 13-story facility called Cordoba House three blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks. The developer, Sharif El-Gamal, describes the project as an "Islamic community center" that will include a 500-seat performing arts center, a lecture hall, a swimming pool, a gym, a culinary school, a restaurant and a prayer space for Muslims.
On Wednesday, the project's developers declined an offer by New York Gov. David Paterson to relocate the project to a state-owned site.
Earlier this month, the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission unanimously denied landmark status for the building where the proposed Islamic center would stand, allowing the project to move forward.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/13/obama.islamic.center.support/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Did you expect anything else from an America hating traitor such as Obama? Remind me what the penalty is for treason again?
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then ship them to gitmo. are they even citizens? if not, the constitution doesn't apply to them. But if they are US citizens, who haven't brokwn a law... as much as i disagree with what they say - as long as they don't break any laws, what can you do?
Dont get me wrong, i'd happily plug 10 terrorists then enjoy a ham sandwich. I'm no sympathizer. if they are breaking the law in any way, you use the pat act, you find out, and you lock their asses up for the next 80 or 100 years. I have no prob with that.
but if their only crime was being smug pricks, then i dont support yanking their constitutional rights.
Not a single one of those cock-suckers denounced the actions of extremists who killed our citizens in the name of the Muslim god.
That constitutes a sanctioning in my book.
Any person who celebrates the death of a nation DOES NOT DESERVE THE RIGHTS THAT NATION OFFERS.
And, it is wrong to build a shrine for the members of that religion right next to the site of the mass murder they so cheerfully celebrate.
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then ship them to gitmo. are they even citizens? if not, the constitution doesn't apply to them. But if they are US citizens, who haven't brokwn a law... as much as i disagree with what they say - as long as they don't break any laws, what can you do?
Dont get me wrong, i'd happily plug 10 terrorists then enjoy a ham sandwich. I'm no sympathizer. if they are breaking the law in any way, you use the pat act, you find out, and you lock their asses up for the next 80 or 100 years. I have no prob with that.
but if their only crime was being smug pricks, then i dont support yanking their constitutional rights.
Again with the constitutional rights, yet you can't tell me what constitutional right is being violated, answer the question or stop the propaganda.
You fuckers duck and weave this question like a boxer
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Hahaha. Obama just drove one more nail into the Dem's coffin. Let's see, over 70% of American opposes the Mosque.....a huge amount oppose his suing of Arizona over the immigration bill. Everything this clown says or does is in total opposition of what the majority of America (except lefties like 240) want. Democrats are probably wishing Obama would just shut his Piehole about the Mosque, Ramadan and all that shit. They know he's destroying their chances in November.
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"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country," Obama told an intently listening crowd gathered at the White House Friday evening to observe the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.
"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."
obama
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Hahaha. Obama just drove one more nail into the Dem's coffin. Let's see, over 70% of American opposes the Mosque.....a huge amount oppose his suing of Arizona over the immigration bill. Everything this clown says or does is in total opposition of what the majority of America (except lefties like 240) want. Democrats are probably wishing Obama would just shut his Piehole about the Mosque, Ramadan and all that shit. They know he's destroying their chances in November.
Actually it may be pure genius. Think about it, he's making transformation changes, be them as horrible as they are he's doing what he said. In Nov. the Republicans will annihilate the Democrats hands down and here's what happens next:
*For two years republicans will have their hands full overturning Obama policy, some of which he will be able to block by executive order, which is bullshit BTW.
*They will never agree on one single thing, Obama is not Clinton and he is not going to compromise even if it destroys the country.
*Come 2012 Obama can now once again place blame on the Republicans, you see nothing really changed the past two years, it was all they could do to get Obama policy overturned.
*Obama no easily wins 2012 because guess what, because most Americans still haven't woken up to the truth and live in a fantasy land that makes as much sense as Mr. Rogers Land of Make Believe.
Maybe Americans will wake up, a lot have but I don't know if enough have yet or if enough see the true gravity of reality.
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I'm not lobbying for any group.
I'm lobbying for enforcement of the constitution.
in no way do i endorse what they're doing - but giving the govt power to pick/choose which religions can practice where is a DANGEROUS precedent.
How long are you going to continue to duck Kazan's question regarding the Constitution?
Your propaganda and constant quoting of Palin to people who couldn't give a fuck about her is getting to be quite sad.
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One and done.
The Democratic Party is going to be wiped off the map by 2012.
Here in NYC, I've never seen people so pissed off. The KSM trial is one thing. This is a whole other ballgame. My fear is that somebody is going to do something about it in a violent manner.
Of course if that happens, the left is going to try to divert attention away from Islamic terrorism and focus on "home grown right wing extremist groups".
Hey heres an idea for the knobs on here that just don't get it-- How about the "Museum of Lynching" next to NAACP headquarters? Or, since many of you like to absurdly reference Oklahoma City, how about if the group responsible decided to open a shooting range+meeting hall for it's local chapter a few feet away from where the Federal building stood?
Forget about the constitution and all of the other legal arguments over the building of this monstrosity--- Are you people just complete fucking idiots that have been living under a rock the last 10 years? It's offensive and incendiary (two words that douchebags on the left using when convenient for their agendas) for a radical Imam that refuses to denounce terrorism to build a giant Mosque a block away from Ground Zero. Can you wrap your tiny brains around that idea?
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this is a land of laws and we have to follow them. not the emotions of people ;D
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One and done.
The Democratic Party is going to be wiped off the map by 2012.
Here in NYC, I've never seen people so pissed off. The KSM trial is one thing. This is a whole other ballgame. My fear is that somebody is going to do something about it in a violent manner.
Of course if that happens, the left is going to try to divert attention away from Islamic terrorism and focus on "home grown right wing extremist groups".
Hey heres an idea for the knobs on here that just don't get it-- How about the "Museum of Lynching" next to NAACP headquarters? Or, since many of you like to absurdly reference Oklahoma City, how about if the group responsible decided to open a shooting range+meeting hall for it's local chapter a few feet away from where the Federal building stood?
Forget about the constitution and all of the other legal arguments over the building of this monstrosity--- Are you people just complete fucking idiots that have been living under a rock the last 10 years? It's offensive and incendiary (two words that douchebags on the left using when convenient for their agendas) for a radical Imam that refuses to denounce terrorism to build a giant Mosque a block away from Ground Zero. Can you wrap your tiny brains around that idea?
Well said.
And to answer your last question: "No."
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this is a land of laws and we have to follow them. not the emotions of people ;D
You're right-- Unless we are talking about immigration laws, laws that prevent voter intimidation and the seperation of powers outlined by the constitution.
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One and done.
The Democratic Party is going to be wiped off the map by 2012.
Here in NYC, I've never seen people so pissed off. The KSM trial is one thing. This is a whole other ballgame. My fear is that somebody is going to do something about it in a violent manner.
Of course if that happens, the left is going to try to divert attention away from Islamic terrorism and focus on "home grown right wing extremist groups".
Hey heres an idea for the knobs on here that just don't get it-- How about the "Museum of Lynching" next to NAACP headquarters? Or, since many of you like to absurdly reference Oklahoma City, how about if the group responsible decided to open a shooting range+meeting hall for it's local chapter a few feet away from where the Federal building stood?
Forget about the constitution and all of the other legal arguments over the building of this monstrosity--- Are you people just complete fucking idiots that have been living under a rock the last 10 years? It's offensive and incendiary (two words that douchebags on the left using when convenient for their agendas) for a radical Imam that refuses to denounce terrorism to build a giant Mosque a block away from Ground Zero. Can you wrap your tiny brains around that idea?
Hypothetically, let's say some radical Christian blows it up. Would the left be OK with building a church there 10 years later?
Another great post, though. I agree 100%.
Simple question. Should there be a shrine to Emperor Hirohito built at Pearl Harbor? Would anyone be OK with that?
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this is a land of laws and we have to follow them. not the emotions of people ;D
Very true and I agree completely but there is a standard that must be met first. You are only entitled to the protection of those laws and the rights they provide if you yourself are eligible, follow the law of the land yourself and do not pose a threat to the security and well-being of the rest of the population. If you meet all three of these then guess what, you're right but if you fall short on even one, you are not qualified to be given the same rights the constitution grants.
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Hypothetically, let's say some radical Christian blows it up. Would the left be OK with building a church there 10 years later?
Another great post, though. I agree 100%.
Simple question. Should there be a shrine to Emperor Hirohito built at Pearl Harbor? Would anyone be OK with that?
Damn you and your logical & sensible analogies.
No, Rob240 is right.
There’s no law against sanctioning, condoning, praising and celebrating the deaths of 3,000+ U.S. citizens.
And - I guess in Rob240’s book - the fact that the sneaky extremists of this religion are continually plotting and attempting further strikes is a moot point.
We are the land of the free, and should openly embrace ALL people - even if they wish us dead and try to facilitate those ends.
And, most importantly, we must extend these terrorists and their supporters every right contained within our Constitution (and even some that maybe aren’t in it) because if we select who receives those rights, that would be “dangerous…”
Not like a “flying planes into buildings” dangerous, but…some other kind of “dangerous.”
Rob240's approach seems to be "lets empower those who want us dead and actively pursue that desire."
I'm not sure why he fails to understand the stance of those of us who wish to live.
The bottom line is he supports the rights of our enemies over OUR rights & safety.
Which rights?
The right to live - the same right they happily took from us nine years ago amidst parties in honor of murders.
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I wonder if the Ku Klux Klan decided to build their national headquarters right next to Martin Luther King's former house...if Obama would endorse their constitutional rights to do so ?....Or I wonder if Stormfront or some other jewish hating organization wanted to put up a building next to The Holocaust Museum in New York...Think that would ever get built? Want to hear 240 on this. Those examples are no more absurd than an Iman with ties to radicals and terrorists being in charge of putting up a Mosque at Ground Zero.
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Glad he cleared that up. ::) So here he is, again, taking sides in an ongoing local dispute. Time for another beer summit?
Under Fire, Obama Clarifies Support for Ground Zero Mosque
Published August 14, 2010 | FoxNews.com
President Obama on Saturday sought to clarify his comments supporting the building of a mosque near ground zero that have ignited a political firestorm ahead of a difficult election season for Democrats.
During a trip to Florida for a family vacation, Obama said his comments on Friday night were only directed at the constitutional right of the mosque to be there.
"I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there," he said in response to a reporter's question after he spoke about efforts to aid the Gulf Coast region. "I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about."
Obama came under instant fire after jumping into the middle of a cultural clash Friday night with comments that have elevated the contentious issue to the presidential level.
White House spokesman Bill Burton released the following statement on behalf of Obama's stance on constructing the mosque.
President Barack Obama has expressed his support for the construction of a Muslim Community Center and Mosque near the World Trade Center site in downtown Manhattan, as many protest the plan, saying it is wrong to build a mosque so close to the site of the Sept. 11 attacks.
"Just to be clear, the President is not backing off in any way from the comments he made last night. It is not his role as President to pass judgment on every local project. But it is his responsibility to stand up for the Constitutional principle of religious freedom and equal treatment for all Americans. What he said last night, and reaffirmed today, is that If a church, a synagogue or a Hindu temple can be built on a site, you simply cannot deny that right to those who want to build a Mosque."
Some victims' advocates and Republicans have strongly condemned Obama's support for the mosque, which would be part of a $100 million Islamic community center two blocks from where nearly 3,000 people perished when hijacked jetliners slammed into the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001.
"Barack Obama has abandoned America at the place where America's heart was broken nine years ago, and where her true values were on display for all to see," said Debra Burlingame, a spokeswoman for some Sept. 11 victims' families and the sister of one of the pilots killed in the attacks.
Building the mosque at ground zero, she said, "is a deliberately provocative act that will precipitate more bloodshed in the name of Allah."
Sally Regenhard, whose firefighter son was killed at the World Trade Center, said the president had failed to understand the issue. "As an Obama supporter, I really feel that he's lost sight of the germane issue, which is not about freedom of religion," she said. "It's about a gross lack of sensitivity to the 9/11 families and to the people who were lost."
Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said the president is "wrong."
"It is insensitive and uncaring for the Muslim community to build a mosque in the shadow of ground zero," he said in a written statement.
"While the Muslim community has the right to build the mosque, they are abusing that right by needlessly offending so many people who have suffered so much," he said. "The right and moral thing for President Obama to have done was to urge Muslim leaders to respect the families of those who died and move their mosque away from ground zero. Unfortunately, the president caved into political correctness."
Entering the highly charged election-year debate, Obama surely knew that his words would not only make headlines in the U.S. but be heard by Muslims worldwide. The president has made it a point to reach out to the global Muslim community, and the over 100 guests at Friday's dinner in the State Dining Room included ambassadors and officials from numerous nations where Islam is observed, including Saudi Arabia and Indonesia.
While his pronouncement concerning the mosque might find favor in the Muslim world, Obama's stance runs counter to the opinions of the majority of Americans, according to polls. A CNN/Opinion Research poll released this week found that nearly 70 percent of Americans opposed the mosque plan while just 29 percent approved. A number of Democratic politicians have shied away from the controversy.
Opponents, including some Sept. 11 victims' relatives, see the prospect of a mosque so near the destroyed trade center as an insult to the memory of those killed by Islamic terrorists in the 2001 attacks.
"The decision to build this mosque so close to ground zero is deeply troubling, as is the president's decision to endorse it. The American people certainly don't support it," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a written statement.
"The fact that someone has the right to do something doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do," he added. "That is the essence of tolerance, peace and understanding. This is not an issue of law, whether religious freedom or local zoning. This is a basic issue of respect of a tragic moment in our history."
Former Republican Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania told Fox News that Obama seems to misunderstand that Islam is not just a religion, but also a political doctrine. He also said the mosque is being run by a man who accused the U.S. of being an accomplice in the Sept. 11 attacks.
Santorum compared the ground zero mosque to a minister who wants to builds a church near the location where the Rev. Martin Luther King was killed but preaches racial separation and the notion that King brought his death upon himself.
"I don't think Barack Obama would say, 'Well we have religious tolerance, we're going to allow them to do that,'" he said. "That is the wrong way to look at this. This is not whether it's a legal right to do it. People have legal rights to do a lot of things in this country."
"We have the will of the American public," he said, noting the polls show most oppose the mosque. The imam is "ignoring the will of the American public, as by the way, Barack Obama is by siding with him."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/14/obamas-support-ground-zero-mosque-draws/
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After reading some of the posts, it seems like some believe that the muslim religion's purpose is to destroy America. It looks an ignorant belief. Don't get me wrong, although some of you will certainly do, I am very much against a structure like this that close to ground zero for many of the reasons that have been stated so far.
However, we are a country of laws build on many freedoms including the freedom of religion, and these same laws that radical Islamic terrorist defer to as part of the great Satan are the same ones that allow a building like this to be constructed. That puts Obama in a politically precarious position. If he speaks against it, he's going against the freedoms we all profess we are entitled to, if he says people have the right to build a place of worship on private property then he can be viewed as supporting it.
After reading his comments i don't think he's doing either. I only hope he's saying publicly what he has to, but privately doing what he can to stop it. But how much power does he have to stop it without violating this group's rights? You think Bloomberg would do more, but i think they are both in a political pickle.
the real question everyone should be asking is how do we stop it?
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After reading some of the posts, it seems like some believe that the muslim religion's purpose is to destroy America. It looks an ignorant belief. Don't get me wrong, although some of you will certainly do, I am very much against a structure like this that close to ground zero for many of the reasons that have been stated so far.
However, we are a country of laws build on many freedoms including the freedom of religion, and these same laws that radical Islamic terrorist defer to as part of the great Satan are the same ones that allow a building like this to be constructed. That puts Obama in a politically precarious position. If he speaks against it, he's going against the freedoms we all profess we are entitled to, if he says people have the right to build a place of worship on private property then he can be viewed as supporting it.
After reading his comments i don't think he's doing either. I only hope he's saying publicly what he has to, but privately doing what he can to stop it. But how much power does he have to stop it without violating this group's rights? You think Bloomberg would do more, but i think they are both in a political pickle.
the real question everyone should be asking is how do we stop it?
He shouldn't be doing anything to stop it, because it's a local issue. This is something the mayor, city council, and citizens should be all over.
It's really not a religious freedom issue. No one is saying they don't have the right to worship or build a mosque led by the man who spit on the 911 victims after the tragedy. They just need to do it someplace else.
The place to stop it is in the city council. IF NYC is like most other cities, the city council should control zoning. They ought to just say no new religious buildings within a certain radius and grandfather in any existing buildings. Problem solved. Easier said than done.
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"The fact that someone has the right to do something doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do," he added. "That is the essence of tolerance, peace and understanding. This is not an issue of law, whether religious freedom or local zoning. This is a basic issue of respect of a tragic moment in our history."
Former Republican Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania told Fox News that Obama seems to misunderstand that Islam is not just a religion, but also a political doctrine. He also said the mosque is being run by a man who accused the U.S. of being an accomplice in the Sept. 11 attacks.
That is an excellent article with many exceptional ideas.
The two above are simply ones that stood out a bit to me.
Who wrote it? I see no credits.
After reading some of the posts, it seems like some believe that the muslim religion's purpose is to destroy America. It looks an ignorant belief.
It is a justified belief.
The only time I hear Muslims speak publicly about America is to condemn it.
Yet, not a single one condemns the 9/11 attacks committed in the name of their “god.”
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It is a justified belief.
The only time I hear Muslims speak publicly about America is to condemn it.
Yet, not a single one condemns the 9/11 attacks committed in the name of their “god.”
No it isn't. It's a belief based on ignorance. Think about what you just said:
The only time I hear Muslims speak publicly about America is to condemn it.
So you have heard every statement ever made by every Muslim in public? I've heard many condemnations, both privately, for anyone to hear and in the media.
There's a difference between "Luke warm" Muslims, children of Muslims born and raised int he US that don't practice the religion, Muslims that do practice their religion and Radical Nut Jobs living in the 13th century hell bent on our destruction.
Grouping these people into one pile is religious stereotyping. That's how some of the nut jobs that slammed the planes in the WTC's felt about the thousands of innocent people they murdered.
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That is an excellent article with many exceptional ideas.
The two above are simply ones that stood out a bit to me.
Who wrote it? I see no credits.
Those are some excellent points. Not sure who wrote the article. It's a Fox/AP story.
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He shouldn't be doing anything to stop it, because it's a local issue. This is something the mayor, city council, and citizens should be all over.
It's really not a religious freedom issue. No one is saying they don't have the right to worship or build a mosque led by the man who spit on the 911 victims after the tragedy. They just need to do it someplace else.
The place to stop it is in the city council. IF NYC is like most other cities, the city council should control zoning. They ought to just say no new religious buildings within a certain radius and grandfather in any existing buildings. Problem solved. Easier said than done.
Actually OB shouldn't have made any comment at all save acknowledging people's concerns. But I'm not his PR adviser, he gave that job to the village idiot.
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I've heard many condemnations, both privately, for anyone to hear and in the media.
Well, I'm opened to the idea.
If you post some links, I'll eagerly listen to these Muslims' proclamations condemning the evil atrocities of their religion’s radicals.
And I’m not being pretentious.
I really do hope they exist, and I really would like to listen to and/or read them.
There's a difference between "Luke warm" Muslims, children of Muslims born and raised int he US that don't practice the religion...
Then the luke warm ones who don't practice don't need a Mosque - anywhere.
And, I would presume that the ones who practice "peacefully" would maybe be a little more sensitive to our "emotions" concerning this issue.
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Actually OB shouldn't have made any comment at all save acknowledging people's concerns. But I'm not his PR adviser, he gave that job to the village idiot.
lol
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The place to stop it is in the city council. IF NYC is like most other cities, the city council should control zoning. They ought to just say no new religious buildings within a certain radius and grandfather in any existing buildings. Problem solved. Easier said than done.
I agree with that 100%. Just exclude EVERY religion - not SOME religions. Cause while this one seems cut and dry, we all know the govt may abuse any 'selective enforcement of the constitution' in the future, once precedent has been set.
keep in mind I would personally punch in the face anyone making anti-american noise in my face. Keep in mind I disagree with their ideology 1000%. Keep in mind I believe there are a million ways to prevent this thing from happening, aside from saying "we're singling out your religion in violation of the constitution".
Tie it up for 10 years with lawsuits or whatever else. Picket them. hit their sponsors or whatever. You're telling me "the media" can chase a sitting US Governor out of office with frivolous BS suits, but 310 million americans can't get keep one group of d-bags from completing a project in a city with a myriad of laws and regulations and red tape?
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One and done.
The Democratic Party is going to be wiped off the map by 2012.
Here in NYC, I've never seen people so pissed off. The KSM trial is one thing. This is a whole other ballgame. My fear is that somebody is going to do something about it in a violent manner.
Of course if that happens, the left is going to try to divert attention away from Islamic terrorism and focus on "home grown right wing extremist groups".
Hey heres an idea for the knobs on here that just don't get it-- How about the "Museum of Lynching" next to NAACP headquarters? Or, since many of you like to absurdly reference Oklahoma City, how about if the group responsible decided to open a shooting range+meeting hall for it's local chapter a few feet away from where the Federal building stood?
Forget about the constitution and all of the other legal arguments over the building of this monstrosity--- Are you people just complete fucking idiots that have been living under a rock the last 10 years? It's offensive and incendiary (two words that douchebags on the left using when convenient for their agendas) for a radical Imam that refuses to denounce terrorism to build a giant Mosque a block away from Ground Zero. Can you wrap your tiny brains around that idea?
+1
Well said
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this is a land of laws and we have to follow them. not the emotions of people ;D
Then show me the law that says anyone has a right to build a place of worship.
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no, you have to show me where it says you can't build a place of worship, thats the way it works
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no, you have to show me where it says you can't build a place of worship, thats the way it works
No it doesn't, you claim it is a right, show me in the constitution where it says you have a right to build a place or worship.
Oh that's right you can't, so you are going to try the usual tactic of redirection. Sorry but you have to go home empty handed, but thanks for playing.
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i have to admit your about as smart as a bag of rocks. why don't you go there with your logic and stop them from building it :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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i have to admit your about as smart as a bag of rocks. why don't you go there with your logic and stop them from building it :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Just what I expected from you ::)
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if i was you i would go to new york and present you case and i'm sure they will say,hey this guy is right and build it somewhere else :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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if i was you i would go to new york and present you case and i'm sure they will say,hey this guy is right and build it somewhere else :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Whatever, if you don't want to debate the topic just say so, trying to redirect the argument is a tired tactic.
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theres really nothing to debate your wrong ,emotionally you don't want the center there.you can't debate emotion
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i have to admit your about as smart as a bag of rocks. why don't you go there with your logic and stop them from building it :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Oh, the irony. :-X
You've become quite the embarrassment. Is it no wonder that you're a joke on here? You have the grammatical skills of an elementary school student.
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stick to the topic nerdy boy
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theres really nothing to debate your wrong ,emotionally you don't want the center there.you can't debate emotion
Try reading the constitution, this has nothing to do with emotion. No where in the document does it say that you have a right to build a place of worship. No one is trying to outlaw Islam therefore there is no constitutional prescident. So no in fact you are wrong.
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in response, PALIN tweeted:
Will Obama express US lingering pain& ask Muslims for tolerance by discouraging 9/11 mosque while he celebrates Islamic holy month tonight?
"One of the prettiest sounds on earth" is the Muslim call to prayer at sunset.
Barack Hussein Obama as quoted by Nicholas D. Kristof in the New York Times - March 6, 2007
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It's funny that President Transparent & Neutral so adamantly supports and praises all things Islamic and is praised by the progressive left for his action. It's funny because the progressive left is also the ones who so adamantly do all they can to crush Christianity in the name of church and state and pervert it into a new argument of social justice, yet for some odd reason (I say "Odd" very sarcastically) when it comes to Islam all bets are off, somehow it becomes OK, in fact better than OK, it becomes visionary.
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It's funny that President Transparent & Neutral so adamantly supports and praises all things Islamic and is praised by the progressive left for his action. It's funny because the progressive left is also the ones who so adamantly do all they can to crush Christianity in the name of church and state and pervert it into a new argument of social justice, yet for some odd reason (I say "Odd" very sarcastically) when it comes to Islam all bets are off, somehow it becomes OK, in fact better than OK, it becomes visionary.
What I find even funnnier is that, despite those supports and praises, "they" still don't like him.
Actually, I don't know that it's at all funny so much as consistent.
I just spoke with a woman the other day who did not realize that the 9/11 hijackers were Muslim.
But, she "knows" enough to vote.
Guess who she voted for in the last presidential election?
At least most people like that think that elections only happen once every four years.
That'll be less stupidity for the midterms to contend with.
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What I find even funnnier is that, despite those supports and praises, "they" still don't like him.
Actually, I don't know that it's at all funny so much as consistent.
I just spoke with a woman the other day who did not realize that the 9/11 hijackers were Muslim.
But, she "knows" enough to vote.
Guess who she voted for in the last presidential election?
At least most people like that think that elections only happen once every four years.
That'll be less stupidity for the midterms to contend with.
Obama is the product of motivating the laziest members of society to vote in 2008 by promising them free stuff at everyone elses' expense.
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Try reading the constitution, this has nothing to do with emotion. No where in the document does it say that you have a right to build a place of worship. No one is trying to outlaw Islam therefore there is no constitutional prescident. So no in fact you are wrong.
like i said before go state your case i'm sure you will win :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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like i said before go state your case i'm sure you will win :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Serious question - how old are you? I'm guessing around 11 y/o.
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you r a lawyer ,you know legally you don't have shit to stand on, its all about emotions.oh the question on how old i am,all i can say is i don't live in my moms basement like yourself
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you r a lawyer ,you know legally you don't have shit to stand on, its all about emotions.oh the question on how old i am,all i can say is i don't live in my moms basement like yourself
Fine, by your post, I have a right to build a huge sign calling Obama a "communist pofs black" and stand with it outside the WH large enough so his family and children can see it. Do you support, applaud, and respect my right to do that without condemnation from anyone else?
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so you agree legally its done and right now its all emotions,tell that to your buddy kazan. thats all I'm saying is everyone is running on emotions
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so you agree legally its done and right now its all emotions,tell that to your buddy kazan. thats all I'm saying is everyone is running on emotions
Its not all emotions. The financing of this mess is very likely from foreign sources and we have a right to know that based on the 501 C3 laws regarding chairities.
If financing for this disgrace is coming from terrorist organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran etc, do you support it still?
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no,but the majority of the people don't want it there over emotional reasons
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no,but the majority of the people don't want it there over emotional reasons
No, its all of these things combined.
And I noticed that you have been silent on the govt paying for mosques as well as paying for Imam Rauf going to the ME to promote this disgrace.
Why the double standard?
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so you agree legally its done and right now its all emotions,tell that to your buddy kazan. thats all I'm saying is everyone is running on emotions
There is legal ground to stand on. They claimed they owned the entire building where they're building this mosque. They own 50% of it. Con Ed, a NY state owned power company owns the other 50%. Unless NY plans on gifting them the other 50% (wouldn't surprise me), they can't build shit there until they own it.
Just leave these threads. You are beyond clueless on this topic and your incoherent posts that are littered with terrible grammar are just sad. It's embarrassing watching an uneducated retard try to throw their uninformed opinion around in these threads.
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why is it all you do is attact me,its because you know i'm right and your wrong you can't stand it.i still like the picture of your mom dancing around :D :D :D :D
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why is it all you do is attact me,its because you know i'm right and your wrong you can't stand it.i still like the picture of your mom dancing around :D :D :D :D
It's because I consider you to be retarded and am amazed that someone who can't even type coherently somehow thinks that their opinion on complex issues is valid. If I was interested in what finger paints I wanted to play with then I'd come to you for your opinion. You're a perfect example of what's wrong with this country.
Attact? Are you serious? Do you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even spell a simple word like that? You can't capitalize words. Can't punctuate. Can't use apostrophes, commas, or periods. You are a moron and should be treated as such.
You don't know dick about this topic yet you keep spamming the threads about it with your incoherent ramblings about "emotion" and the like. Go away and let the competent people discuss it.
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It's because I consider you to be retarded and am amazed that someone who can't even type coherently somehow thinks that their opinion on complex issues is valid. If I was interested in what finger paints I wanted to play with then I'd come to you for your opinion. You're a perfect example of what's wrong with this country.
Attact? Are you serious? I mean, really. Do you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even spell a simple word like that? You can't capitalize words. Can't punctuate. Can't use apostrophes, commas, or periods. You are a moron and should be treated as such.
You don't know dick about this topic yet you keep spamming the threads about with your incoherent ramblings about "emotion" and the like. Go away and let the competent people discuss it.
BF - give Blacken a break.
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BF - give Blacken a break.
He's a perfect example of how Obama came to power. For every educated person that voted for him there were 10-20+ morons who couldn't pass a fourth grade English class that did the same.
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if obama tried outlawing a christian church 10 blocks from oklahoma city, people would be shitting bricks.
Why comment at it?The reason is because HE is a muslim.He comments for the same reason he comments on the Cambridge Gates case.Its what he is.A community organiser.He hates the police in the Gates case and he is a muslim.
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like i said before go state your case i'm sure you will win :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
(http://dsfv.schnuerpel.eu/statement/you-just-went-full-retard.jpg)
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berzerkFury the educator :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D the only man that worries about punctuation and capitals on a bobybudling site berzerkfury=nerd :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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berzerkFury the educator :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D the only man that worries about punctuation and capitals on a bobybudling site berzerkfury=nerd :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
And streaming live from the Blacken700 home cam:
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Fine, by your post, I have a right to build a huge sign calling Obama a "communist pofs guy" and stand with it outside the WH large enough so his family and children can see it. Do you support, applaud, and respect my right to do that without condemnation from anyone else?
You do according to your constitution have the right to post such a sign, but you do have a thing called SLANDER AND DEFAMATION. If you are going to use your freedom of speech don't use it to "assault" for no reason or without warrant.
This harps of your constitutions speaking of screaming FIRE IN A MOVIE HOUSE. Your inciting a situation that is unnecessary.
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berzerkFury the educator :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D the only man that worries about punctuation and capitals on a bobybudling site berzerkfury=nerd :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Hardly. Typos here and there are nothing to get bent out of shape about. You CONSISTENTLY come off as an uneducated idiot. Anyone who can't spell simple words like "attack" or punctuate correctly shouldn't be taken seriously in discussions about complex issues. I wouldn't ask a 5th grader for their opinion on the stock market so why should we care about what you, with your 4th grade education, have to say?
That many emoticons tells me that I'm upsetting you. Don't get mad at me. Get mad at your lack of schooling.
And streaming live from the Blacken700 home cam:
;D
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BerzerkFury and kazan :D :D :D
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What a shock.
Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center
By the CNN Wire Staff
August 13, 2010
Washington (CNN) -- President Obama.. "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country,"
"Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," Obama said, according to prepared remarks released before a speech.
"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said.
The president's remarks drew praise from New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who announced his support for the Islamic center last week.
"President Obama's words tonight evoked President Washington's own August reminder that 'all possess alike liberty,' "
"I applaud President Obama's clarionof religion tonight," he said. defense of the freedom The president invoked the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, which critics of the Islamic center cite as the main reason for preventing its construction.
"This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable," he said. "The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure."
The proposed Islamic center has provoked vocal opposition from some families of 9/11 victims and other groups. Nearly 70 percent of Americans oppose the plan, according to CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll released Wednesday.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/13/obama.islamic.center.support/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Jesus H christ some people on this damn site are retarded and dont know what this country was founded on. Are you shittin me...
I dont even feel right arguing this shit...If its legal and passes all zoning codes..their right as AMERICANS allows this.
ITs what this Country was founded on..i have so much more to say but i just feel stupid trying to explain this to other "so called" Americans ::) Fuckin idiots dont grasp the freedoms of being real Americans, and following the document that is unbreakable...the Constitution...Oh my God...bunch of fake ass Americans who want to change policy with the changing of the wind...make me want to puke
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You do according to your constitution have the right to post such a sign, but you do have a thing called SLANDER AND DEFAMATION. If you are going to use your freedom of speech don't use it to "assault" for no reason or without warrant.
This harps of your constitutions speaking of screaming FIRE IN A MOVIE HOUSE. Your inciting a situation that is unnecessary.
Why is it defamation and slander? Truth is a absolute defense in a court of law.
And inciting a situation? I agree with you which is why I would not do that, even though I may have a technical right to do it.
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Jesus H christ some people on this damn site are retarded and dont know what this country was founded on. Are you shittin me...
I dont even feel right arguing this shit...If its legal and passes all zoning codes..their right as AMERICANS allows this.
ITs what this Country was founded on..i have so much more to say but i just feel stupid trying to explain this to other "so called" Americans ::) Fuckin idiots dont grasp the freedoms of being real Americans, and following the document that is unbreakable...the Constitution...Oh my God...bunch of fake ass Americans who want to change policy with the changing of the wind...make me want to puke
There isn't a single person arguing that they don't have the right to practice Islam. The Constitution allows that. However, it doesn't allow them to build a mosque anywhere they feel like it and the multiple examples that have already been posted of other religious groups having their plans to build their own houses of worship denied supports that.
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Jesus H christ some people on this damn site are retarded and dont know what this country was founded on. Are you shittin me...
I dont even feel right arguing this shit...If its legal and passes all zoning codes..their right as AMERICANS allows this.
ITs what this Country was founded on..i have so much more to say but i just feel stupid trying to explain this to other "so called" Americans ::) Fuckin idiots dont grasp the freedoms of being real Americans, and following the document that is unbreakable...the Constitution...Oh my God...bunch of fake ass Americans who want to change policy with the changing of the wind...make me want to puke
Funny you have been silent on my threads proving that the State Department & Obama are funding this guy to promote the mosque as well as paying for the refurbishing of mosques across the ME.
This has nothing to do with freedom of religion since no one is banning them from practicing Islam. There are 100's of other mosques in NYC as it is and there are no muslims in the lower financial district sufficient to keep this thing going, so what is the real purpose of this and why so close to Ground Zero?
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There isn't a single person arguing that they don't have the right to practice Islam. The Constitution allows that. However, it doesn't allow them to build a mosque anywhere they feel like it and the multiple examples that have already been posted of other religious groups having their plans to build their own houses of worship denied supports that.
Alls i said is this...If they pass all the zoning codes and its perfectly legal...what is the legal opposition..
Dont get me wrong..they do have some balls...who ever they is...i dont like it..but in accordance with what our country was founded on, and what makes us different...i have to side with the durkas...
check it. If there was a kkk member who was in the middle of LA giving his hate speech, and someone tried to block him, i would defend the KKK member even though i dont agree with his message or the spirit of what he is doing...i have to say that as an American it is his right. No matter how uncomfortable it makes anyone feel
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Jesus H christ some people on this damn site are retarded and dont know what this country was founded on. Are you shittin me...
I dont even feel right arguing this shit...If its legal and passes all zoning codes..their right as AMERICANS allows this.
ITs what this Country was founded on..i have so much more to say but i just feel stupid trying to explain this to other "so called" Americans ::) Fuckin idiots dont grasp the freedoms of being real Americans, and following the document that is unbreakable...the Constitution...Oh my God...bunch of fake ass Americans who want to change policy with the changing of the wind...make me want to puke
I know exactly what this country was founded on, you want to know original intent try reading the federalist papers. Yeah the constitution is unbreakable, oh except for the 2nd amendment. Or when the federal government over steps its enumerated, you know like forcing people to buy health insurance.
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Alls i said is this...If they pass all the zoning codes and its perfectly legal...what is the legal opposition..
Dont get me wrong..they do have some balls...who ever they is...i dont like it..but in accordance with what our country was founded on, and what makes us different...i have to side with the durkas...
check it. If there was a kkk member who was in the middle of LA giving his hate speech, and someone tried to block him, i would defend the KKK member even though i dont agree with his message or the spirit of what he is doing...i have to say that as an American it is his right. No matter how uncomfortable it makes anyone feel
Well, for starters, they only own 50% of the site they think they're building it on. Con Ed owns the other 50% and any sale of property by them is subject to review by a NY state commission as Con Ed is owned by the state. When this came out recently, the people heading up this mosque project acted dumbfounded and oblivious. So yes, there are legal ramifications that still need to be sorted out on this.
The fury to push this mosque through when issues like that are still coming out really shows that there is an underlying agenda to push this project through. When you look at this and then look at the 80-year-old church that stood under the WTC and was destroyed in the attacks still not having been rebuilt 9 years later due to being tied up in bureaucratic tape and this whole mess stinks.
Where's the due diligence on this? It took this long for it to come out that these people don't even own the entire site where they think they're building this mosque? What exactly did the zoning commission analyze then?
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Funny you have been silent on my threads proving that the State Department & Obama are funding this guy to promote the mosque as well as paying for the refurbishing of mosques across the ME.
This has nothing to do with freedom of religion since no one is banning them from practicing Islam. There are 100's of other mosques in NYC as it is and there are no muslims in the lower financial district sufficient to keep this thing going, so what is the real purpose of this and why so close to Ground Zero?
Fool funny i have been silent on all of GETBIG...I have been working...This is my first post in about 3-4 days fool...
But ill humor you. Dude you need someone else to cosign your story with me..because you have been proven to skew the facts use hyperbole etc to get a point across, thus have lost all credibility of a man that posts the facts..you do the fox news thing which is post some dumb ass head line that envokes emotion one way or another and take a few factors of the situation and leave others out. Then hope no one does a bit of indepth research because it will be shown that you simply lied.
Obama calls swat team on grandmothers...
see shit like that makes me not want to hear shit you have to say...because it was a blatant lie...and that kind of "twisting" of facts to fit your opinions and views makes me vomit
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I know exactly what this country was founded on, you want to know original intent try reading the federalist papers. Yeah the constitution is unbreakable, oh except for the 2nd amendment. Or when the federal government over steps its enumerated, you know like forcing people to buy health insurance.
I volunteer coach high school football...half of the kids dont have health insurance...they werent forced to do anything...
they dont have it...
tha fuck are you talkin about...
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To me, the funding of this thing is becoming more relevent.
Not only the $100 Milllion dollar plus to build it, but the operating costs.
do any of you clowns have any clue how much it costs to operate a building of this size in NYC. A few thousand local muslims paying $1,000 a year or better does not even come to close to covering the on going costs of this thing.
So who is paying for this?
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I volunteer coach high school football...half of the kids dont have health insurance...they werent forced to do anything...
they dont have it...
tha fuck are you talkin about...
Gee I don't know maybe the fucking healthcare abomination they just passed
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Fool funny i have been silent on all of GETBIG...I have been working...This is my first post in about 3-4 days fool...
But ill humor you. Dude you need someone else to cosign your story with me..because you have been proven to skew the facts use hyperbole etc to get a point across, thus have lost all credibility of a man that posts the facts..you do the fox news thing which is post some dumb ass head line that envokes emotion one way or another and take a few factors of the situation and leave others out. Then hope no one does a bit of indepth research because it will be shown that you simply lied.
Obama calls swat team on grandmothers...
see shit like that makes me not want to hear shit you have to say...because it was a blatant lie...and that kind of "twisting" of facts to fit your opinions and views makes me vomit
So one story amongst thousands turns out bad, and you write me off. fuine. i wish you had the same standard for the palin bashers.
I'll bump both threads and you tell me if my sources are good on this.
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Well, for starters, they only own 50% of the site they think they're building it on. Con Ed owns the other 50% and any sale of property by them is subject to review by a NY state commission as Con Ed is owned by the state. When this came out recently, the people heading up this mosque project acted dumbfounded and oblivious. So yes, there are legal ramifications that still need to be sorted out on this.
The fury to push this mosque through when issues like that are still coming out really shows that there is an underlying agenda to push this project through. When you look at this and then look at the 80-year-old church that stood under the WTC and was destroyed in the attacks still not having been rebuilt 9 years later due to being tied up in bureaucratic tape and this whole mess stinks.
Where's the due diligence on this? It took this long for it to come out that these people don't even own the entire site where they think they're building this mosque? What exactly did the zoning commission analyze then?
BF..I think you are missing me right now...The REASONS some dont want this mosque built is totally unAmerican..Thats all im saying. Now if there is any redtape foul play..then scrap it. But if there arent any legal reasons not to build this shit...then as a citizen of this great country...i have to step aside and deal with it.
and for the record...I do think it is grossly insensitive, and wierd. But those arent grounds to trample the constitution
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BF..I think you are missing me right now...The REASONS some dont want this mosque built is totally unAmerican..Thats all im saying. Now if there is any redtape foul play..then scrap it. But if there arent any legal reasons not to build this shit...then as a citizen of this great country...i have to step aside and deal with it.
and for the record...I do think it is grossly insensitive, and wierd. But those arent grounds to trample the constitution
The issue of the funding needs to be explored deeply since this Imam is head of a charity and is supposed to follow laws regarding sources of funding.
$100 Million is a lot of money and this Imam is not raising the money locally. If the money is coming from the ME and overseas, damn right we have a right to know who is funding this.
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The issue of the funding needs to be explored deeply since this Imam is head of a charity and is supposed to follow laws regarding sources of funding.
$100 Million is a lot of money and this Imam is not raising the money locally. If the money is coming from the ME and overseas, damn right we have a right to know who is funding this.
The last local fundraiser for this mosque raised a scant $200 for the project. The source of the funding definitely needs to be looked into because if it turns out that any terrorist groups or groups linked to terrorists are funding it (illegal in this country) then it needs to scrapped ASAP and the Imam heading the project investigated for criminal charges.
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Gee I don't know maybe the fucking healthcare abomination they just passed
You are dumb
Come to Washington Prep in South Central Los Angeles and tell these kids that cant play because of lack of insurance that its cool because their parents were forced to buy insurance and they have it now...thats just dumb
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You are dumb
Come to Washington Prep in South Central Los Angeles and tell these kids that cant play because of lack of insurance that its cool because their parents were forced to buy insurance and they have it now...thats just dumb
Yeah I'm dumb, you know all ::)
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You are dumb
Come to Washington Prep in South Central Los Angeles and tell these kids that cant play because of lack of insurance that its cool because their parents were forced to buy insurance and they have it now...thats just dumb
Liberal playbook 101: "its for the children"
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Yeah I'm dumb, you know all ::)
No thats what happened...Dude we had to dismiss kids with no insurance, but you said they do because their parents were forced...explain that
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Liberal playbook 101: "its for the children"
What the fuck in Gods name are you talking about..whats for the children?
hey you been on the wacky tabacky
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Liberal playbook 101: "its for the children"
What is liberial about me coaching at my old high school?
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What is liberial about me coaching at my old high school?
Nothing, but the typical liberal response to anyone screaming about policies put for by democrat socialists is but but "its for the children". Your post to Kazan implied that now its good that people have to buy insurance since children will be covered, all ignoring the fact that most likely they probably would be covered some existing plan or program in place, without the need for the obscenity known as obamacare.
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Nothing, but the typical liberal response to anyone screaming about policies put for by democrat socialists is but but "its for the children". Your post to Kazan implied that now its good that people have to buy insurance since children will be covered, all ignoring the fact that most likely they probably would be covered some existing plan or program in place, without the need for the obscenity known as obamacare.
them being children had nothing to do with it..they didnt have insurance, and kazan said they did because they were forced to have it.,....
What the fuck are you talking about liberal response...
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them being children had nothing to do with it..they didnt have insurance, and kazan said they did because they were forced to have it.,....
What the fuck are you talking about liberal response...
I guess you have just discovered politics in 2008 when "the one" ranf or office. The standard liberal playbook for any insane policy is "its for the children", regardless of how crazy it is.
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I guess you have just discovered politics in 2008 when "the one" ranf or office. The standard liberal playbook for any insane policy is "its for the children", regardless of how crazy it is.
it dosent apply to this...
what is about the kids?
How does that statement match up with what we are talking about ova hea?
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Op-Ed Columnist Obama: Man of the World
www.nyt.com
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: March 6, 2007
WASHINGTON
Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times
Nicholas D. Kristof.
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ __
TimesSelect subscribers can listen to a reading of the day's Op-Ed columns.
The conventional wisdom about Barack Obama is that he’s smart and charismatic but so inexperienced that we should feel jittery about him in the Oval Office.
But that view is myopic. In some respects, Mr. Obama is far more experienced than other presidential candidates.
His experience as an antipoverty organizer in Chicago, for example, gives him a deep grasp of a crucial 21st-century challenge — poverty in America — that almost all politicians lack. He says that grass-roots experience helps explain why he favors not only government spending programs, like early childhood education, but also cultural initiatives, like efforts to promote responsible fatherhood.
In foreign policy as well, Mr. Obama would bring to the White House an important experience that most other candidates lack: he has actually lived abroad. He spent four years as a child in Indonesia and attended schools in the Indonesian language, which he still speaks.
“I was a little Jakarta street kid,” he said in a wide-ranging interview in his office (excerpts are on my blog, www.nytimes.com/ontheground). He once got in trouble for making faces during Koran study classes in his elementary school, but a president is less likely to stereotype Muslims as fanatics — and more likely to be aware of their nationalism — if he once studied the Koran with them.
Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”
Moreover, Mr. Obama’s own grandfather in Kenya was a Muslim. Mr. Obama never met his grandfather and says he isn’t sure if his grandfather’s two wives were simultaneous or consecutive, or even if he was Sunni or Shiite. (O.K., maybe Mr. Obama should just give up on Alabama.)
Our biggest mistake since World War II has been a lack of sensitivity to other people’s nationalism, from Vietnam to Iraq. Perhaps as a result of his background, Mr. Obama has been unusually sensitive to such issues and to the need to project respect rather than arrogance. He has consistently shown great instincts.
Mr. Obama’s visit to Africa last year hit just the right diplomatic notes. In Kenya, he warmly greeted the president — but denounced corruption and went out of his way to visit a bold newspaper that government agents had ransacked. In South Africa, he respectfully but firmly criticized the government’s unscientific bungling of the AIDS epidemic. In Chad, he visited Darfur refugees.
“My experience growing up in Indonesia or having family in small villages in Africa — I think it makes me much more mindful of the importance of issues like personal security or freedom from corruption,” he said, adding: “I’ve witnessed it in much more direct ways than I think the average American has witnessed it.”
As a senator, Mr. Obama has not only seized the issue of nuclear proliferation, but also the question of small arms. For a majority of the world’s inhabitants, those AK-47s and R.P.G.’s are the weapons of mass destruction.
So how would an Obama administration differ from the Bill Clinton presidency in foreign policy? One way, he said, would be a much greater emphasis on promoting education, health care and development in Africa and other poor regions — not just for humanitarian reasons, but also with an eye to national security.
“If we can’t take what, relative to our military hardware and defense budgets, are a pittance, and put some resources into these areas, we will not be secure,” he noted, adding: “The Marshall Plan was part of a security strategy; it wasn’t simply charity.”
Mr. Obama thumps the White House on trade and foreign investments, like the Dubai ports deal — but he isn’t demagogic in the way that too many Democrats have been. And three years ago, Mr. Obama was quoted in The Chicago Tribune as making hawkish comments about a military strike on Iran, but in the interview he pirouetted and noted that one of the lessons of Iraq is that “being trigger-happy ... is a recipe for disaster.” That’s a welcome sign of growth.
So, granted, Mr. Obama lacks the extensive experience at top levels of diplomacy of, say, Dick Cheney or ... oh, never mind.
What sets Mr. Obama apart is the way his training has been at the grass-roots rather than in the treetops. And that may be the richest kind of background of all, yielding not just experience, but also wisdom.
You are invited to comment on this column at Mr. Kristof’s blog, www.nytimes.com/ontheground.
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Alls i said is this...If they pass all the zoning codes and its perfectly legal...what is the legal opposition..
Dont get me wrong..they do have some balls...who ever they is...i dont like it..but in accordance with what our country was founded on, and what makes us different...i have to side with the durkas...
check it. If there was a kkk member who was in the middle of LA giving his hate speech, and someone tried to block him, i would defend the KKK member even though i dont agree with his message or the spirit of what he is doing...i have to say that as an American it is his right. No matter how uncomfortable it makes anyone feel
What if the KKK wanted to put their headquarters at Martin Luther king's former house.....or they wanted to build it where that black guy James Byrd was dragged to death by some rednecks in a pickup truck till there was nothing left of him? Do you support that too? How much must something be in bad taste before you say, "That shit just ain't right !"
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What if the KKK wanted to put their headquarters at Martin Luther king's former house.....or they wanted to build it where that black guy James Byrd was dragged to death by some rednecks in a pickup truck till there was nothing left of him? Do you support that too? How much must something be in bad taste before you say, "That shit just ain't right !"
How about a floating Shinto Shrine in Pearl Harbor dedicated to the Emporer of Japan?
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Thats what im saying...no matter how uncomfortable it is...if they follow the law....what grounds do we legally have to say...you cant do that...its opens it up to interpretation..and then someone says "well back in 2010 they didnt let this happen on these loose ass interpretations of the law..
like i wanted to slap sharpton when he called for imus job for nappy headed hoes...simply because its not American...and i think and said that sharpton had no right to ask for a mans job because he insulted some women.
So again. I dont agree with it..but if we start making decisions contrary to the constitution because of feelings...it opens the door for chaos and we would be no better than feudal societies that make up laws on the fly
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Thats what im saying...no matter how uncomfortable it is...if they follow the law....what grounds do we legally have to say...you cant do that...its opens it up to interpretation..and then someone says "well back in 2010 they didnt let this happen on these loose ass interpretations of the law..
like i wanted to slap sharpton when he called for imus job for nappy headed hoes...simply because its not American...and i think and said that sharpton had no right to ask for a mans job because he insulted some women.
So again. I dont agree with it..but if we start making decisions contrary to the constitution because of feelings...it opens the door for chaos and we would be no better than feudal societies that make up laws on the fly
No one is calling for a legal remedy to this situation since everyone, myself included, acknowledges that they have a legal right to do it.
However, I do believe the funding of this thing is highly relevent as well as the fact that supposedly "holy people" like this Imam is claiming to be are acting in a manner anything but.
While he may have a right to exercise a legal right to build it, I have a legal right to protest it, condemn it, and complain about it as well.
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No one is calling for a legal remedy to this situation since everyone, myself included, acknowledges that they have a legal right to do it.
However, I do believe the funding of this thing is highly relevent as well as the fact that supposedly "holy people" like this Imam is claiming to be are acting in a manner anything but.
While he may have a right to exercise a legal right to build it, I have a legal right to protest it, condemn it, and complain about it as well.
and you do have the legal right to protest ..
if it were totally privatley funded...what grounds would you have to protest it
also...the "it all about the kids" "liberal response" Tell explain how your post was relivant to me coaching kids and it being liberal response and healthcare
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Jewish World Review August 16, 2010/ 6 Elul, 5770
You've Lost America, Mr. President
By Arnold Ahlert
http://www.JewishWorldReview.com
________________________ ________________________ ______
| I was "one incident too early." On November 5, 2009, I wrote this for JWR's "sister site", Political Mavens:
"Barack Obama's presidency is effectively over. Strong words? Ask yourself this: what other president of the United States would have spent almost three minutes speaking at the Dept. of Interior before getting around to mentioning the fact that twelve soldiers had been killed, and thirty one wounded in a massacre at Fort Hood in Texas?"
Alas, most Americans let this travesty slide down the memory hole. Thankfully, like he has with so many other unpopular positions, Barack Hussein Obama has "doubled down:" his support of the Ground Zero mosque is game, set, match.
As I wrote in my previous column, the true intentions of the mosque builders were revealed when they turned down NY Governor David Patterson's offer of state land in return for re-locating the mosque away from Ground Zero. They refused. That this "factoid" was seemingly irrelevant to the president speaks volumes.
It is worth remembering this is the same president who belittled ordinary Americans for "clinging" to religion. I guess Muslims "clinging" to a location that infuriates the overwhelming majority of Americans is perfectly fine, even after it's been revealed for the rankly provocative plan it truly is.
Ordinary Americans? They recognize a self-aggrandizing, holier-than-thou phony when they see one. They aren't fooled by a president who says that, "Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground"--only seconds before he reveals the total hollowness of that statement by saying he's fine with a mosque on top of it.
Some one must have told Mr. Obama it wasn't flying. On Saturday, he issued a "clarifying" statement: he wasn't commenting on the "wisdom" of putting a mosque in a particular location, but on the "right people have that dates back to our founding."
Baloney. Reasonable Americans aren't demanding anything remotely resembling a ban on Islam or the ability of its adherents to worship as they please. They're saying show some respect for American sensibilities, and don't build a mosque adjacent to the place where a national tragedy took place--one perpetrated in the name of Islam.
I have tremendous respect for the office of the presidency. That respect has gotten me and doubtless a lot of other Americans through some pretty tough times. And as much as I've disliked some of the people who've occupied that office, I've always taken comfort in the fact that, when push comes to shove, every one of those men, irrespective of political ideology, had America's best interests at heart.
No longer. For the first time in my lifetime, we have an alien in the White House.
Every weekday NewsAndOpinion.com publishes what many in the media and Washington consider "must-reading". HUNDREDS of columnists and cartoonists regularly appear. Sign up for the daily update. It's free. Just click here.
And that doesn't mean what some of you might think. For the purposes of this column, the "birther debate" is irrelevant. What I'm talking about is a man completely divorced from the American ethos. A man who is utterly clueless about what most Americans want, think or feel. The first president of the United States on the public record with the idea that American exceptionalism is nothing more than one item on a laundry list of national exceptionalisms--none better or worse than any other.
A man who will take America's side--only after he's concluded that it doesn't conflict with his larger worldview.
Sadly, we've reached a point where most Americans don't expect anything different. And why should they? This is a man up to his neck in meaningful associations with card-carrying members of the Hate America crowd--from boyhood mentor, communist Frank Marshall, and racist preacher, Jeremiah Wright, to Weather Underground terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn, and other rabid leftists. This is a man who has stacked his administration with a roster of radicals dedicated to the idea that America is a nation of unrepentant bigots, racists and other low-lifes who must be whipped into "progressive" shape. This is a man who learned--and taught--the "Alinsky Method," a blueprint for the radical re-organization of America by stealth.
Why has the president doggedly kept entire parts of his life, from his early college years straight through law school, away from public view? Bet the farm it's because any paper trail from those years would reveal this president to be the Marxist/socialist radical that occasionally breaches the "teleprompted" facade he has so carefully erected.
Last Friday, the mask slipped once again. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to point a comment directly towards the Cordoba House builders explaining that, while freedom of religion is a sacred American value, their refusal to accept an alternative site on state land offered by the governor is very troubling. He could have called their bluff and said he stands with the overwhelming majority of Americans who find such a refusal appalling. He could have said that "cultural sensitivity" is a two-way street, and that it is about time self-professed "moderate Muslims" demonstrated their moderation.
But he didn't. And he didn't because, for this "citizen of the world," the idea of "putting America first" requires considerable effort. Quite frankly, this is astounding. There is no other position in government where the idea of being "reflexively American" is more important. There is no other man in the country with the unfettered power to put American men and women in harm's way. That fact alone requires unstinting loyalty to our nation, and an unbridled sense of patriotism.
Is that what Americans see when they look at Barack Obama? Or do they see a narcissistic, serial apologizer, a split-the-difference-with-our-enemies appeaser who golfs and parties--while America burns?
This president, along with his lap-dog media supporters, will continue to tell Americans that their anger and disgust has little or nothing to do with the shortcomings of Barack Obama. Everything wrong with the country is "someone else's fault," be it "racist" tea partiers, "fat cat" bankers, "greedy" doctors, "irresponsible" corporations, Republicans, or their favorite whipping boy, George W. Bush.
Sorry, Mr. Obama, no sale. You've done a grand job of alienating the majority of Americans all by yourself. And you know it too, or you wouldn't have "clarified" your position on the Ground Zero mosque twenty four hours after the "real you" revealed itself.
Perhaps someday we'll have someone in the Oval Office with a more jaundiced view of America than yours. I hope I never live to see it. And I fervently hope Americans remember exactly who you are when 2012 rolls around. We can probably muddle through two more years with a charlatan in the White House.
Heaven help America if it's six.
________________________ ________________________ ___________
It is worth remembering this is the same president who belittled ordinary Americans for "clinging" to religion. I guess Muslims "clinging" to a location that infuriates the overwhelming majority of Americans is perfectly fine, even after it's been revealed for the rankly provocative plan it truly is.
Spot on.
-
Jewish World Review August 16, 2010/ 6 Elul, 5770
You've Lost America, Mr. President
By Arnold Ahlert
http://www.JewishWorldReview.com
________________________ ________________________ ______
| I was "one incident too early." On November 5, 2009, I wrote this for JWR's "sister site", Political Mavens:
"Barack Obama's presidency is effectively over. Strong words? Ask yourself this: what other president of the United States would have spent almost three minutes speaking at the Dept. of Interior before getting around to mentioning the fact that twelve soldiers had been killed, and thirty one wounded in a massacre at Fort Hood in Texas?"
Alas, most Americans let this travesty slide down the memory hole. Thankfully, like he has with so many other unpopular positions, Barack Hussein Obama has "doubled down:" his support of the Ground Zero mosque is game, set, match.
As I wrote in my previous column, the true intentions of the mosque builders were revealed when they turned down NY Governor David Patterson's offer of state land in return for re-locating the mosque away from Ground Zero. They refused. That this "factoid" was seemingly irrelevant to the president speaks volumes.
It is worth remembering this is the same president who belittled ordinary Americans for "clinging" to religion. I guess Muslims "clinging" to a location that infuriates the overwhelming majority of Americans is perfectly fine, even after it's been revealed for the rankly provocative plan it truly is.
Ordinary Americans? They recognize a self-aggrandizing, holier-than-thou phony when they see one. They aren't fooled by a president who says that, "Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground"--only seconds before he reveals the total hollowness of that statement by saying he's fine with a mosque on top of it.
Some one must have told Mr. Obama it wasn't flying. On Saturday, he issued a "clarifying" statement: he wasn't commenting on the "wisdom" of putting a mosque in a particular location, but on the "right people have that dates back to our founding."
Baloney. Reasonable Americans aren't demanding anything remotely resembling a ban on Islam or the ability of its adherents to worship as they please. They're saying show some respect for American sensibilities, and don't build a mosque adjacent to the place where a national tragedy took place--one perpetrated in the name of Islam.
I have tremendous respect for the office of the presidency. That respect has gotten me and doubtless a lot of other Americans through some pretty tough times. And as much as I've disliked some of the people who've occupied that office, I've always taken comfort in the fact that, when push comes to shove, every one of those men, irrespective of political ideology, had America's best interests at heart.
No longer. For the first time in my lifetime, we have an alien in the White House.
Every weekday NewsAndOpinion.com publishes what many in the media and Washington consider "must-reading". HUNDREDS of columnists and cartoonists regularly appear. Sign up for the daily update. It's free. Just click here.
And that doesn't mean what some of you might think. For the purposes of this column, the "birther debate" is irrelevant. What I'm talking about is a man completely divorced from the American ethos. A man who is utterly clueless about what most Americans want, think or feel. The first president of the United States on the public record with the idea that American exceptionalism is nothing more than one item on a laundry list of national exceptionalisms--none better or worse than any other.
A man who will take America's side--only after he's concluded that it doesn't conflict with his larger worldview.
Sadly, we've reached a point where most Americans don't expect anything different. And why should they? This is a man up to his neck in meaningful associations with card-carrying members of the Hate America crowd--from boyhood mentor, communist Frank Marshall, and racist preacher, Jeremiah Wright, to Weather Underground terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn, and other rabid leftists. This is a man who has stacked his administration with a roster of radicals dedicated to the idea that America is a nation of unrepentant bigots, racists and other low-lifes who must be whipped into "progressive" shape. This is a man who learned--and taught--the "Alinsky Method," a blueprint for the radical re-organization of America by stealth.
Why has the president doggedly kept entire parts of his life, from his early college years straight through law school, away from public view? Bet the farm it's because any paper trail from those years would reveal this president to be the Marxist/socialist radical that occasionally breaches the "teleprompted" facade he has so carefully erected.
Last Friday, the mask slipped once again. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to point a comment directly towards the Cordoba House builders explaining that, while freedom of religion is a sacred American value, their refusal to accept an alternative site on state land offered by the governor is very troubling. He could have called their bluff and said he stands with the overwhelming majority of Americans who find such a refusal appalling. He could have said that "cultural sensitivity" is a two-way street, and that it is about time self-professed "moderate Muslims" demonstrated their moderation.
But he didn't. And he didn't because, for this "citizen of the world," the idea of "putting America first" requires considerable effort. Quite frankly, this is astounding. There is no other position in government where the idea of being "reflexively American" is more important. There is no other man in the country with the unfettered power to put American men and women in harm's way. That fact alone requires unstinting loyalty to our nation, and an unbridled sense of patriotism.
Is that what Americans see when they look at Barack Obama? Or do they see a narcissistic, serial apologizer, a split-the-difference-with-our-enemies appeaser who golfs and parties--while America burns?
This president, along with his lap-dog media supporters, will continue to tell Americans that their anger and disgust has little or nothing to do with the shortcomings of Barack Obama. Everything wrong with the country is "someone else's fault," be it "racist" tea partiers, "fat cat" bankers, "greedy" doctors, "irresponsible" corporations, Republicans, or their favorite whipping boy, George W. Bush.
Sorry, Mr. Obama, no sale. You've done a grand job of alienating the majority of Americans all by yourself. And you know it too, or you wouldn't have "clarified" your position on the Ground Zero mosque twenty four hours after the "real you" revealed itself.
Perhaps someday we'll have someone in the Oval Office with a more jaundiced view of America than yours. I hope I never live to see it. And I fervently hope Americans remember exactly who you are when 2012 rolls around. We can probably muddle through two more years with a charlatan in the White House.
Heaven help America if it's six.
________________________ ________________________ ___________
It is worth remembering this is the same president who belittled ordinary Americans for "clinging" to religion. I guess Muslims "clinging" to a location that infuriates the overwhelming majority of Americans is perfectly fine, even after it's been revealed for the rankly provocative plan it truly is.
Spot on.
thats dumb...its not that anyone is clinging to religion..they are clinging to their right as AMERICANS to build it legally...Why is this so hard to grasp...Jesus H Christ..
This dude who wrote this article is skilled in the art of blurring...and not the issue at hand...get a fucking grip...unless you prove to me that something is illegal and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.....the issue is the same...it is what we are founded on...Rights...God Damn...what the fuck is so difficult about this
-
Jewish World Review August 16, 2010/ 6 Elul, 5770
You've Lost America, Mr. President
By Arnold Ahlert
http://www.JewishWorldReview.com
________________________ ________________________ ______
| I was "one incident too early." On November 5, 2009, I wrote this for JWR's "sister site", Political Mavens:
"Barack Obama's presidency is effectively over. Strong words? Ask yourself this: what other president of the United States would have spent almost three minutes speaking at the Dept. of Interior before getting around to mentioning the fact that twelve soldiers had been killed, and thirty one wounded in a massacre at Fort Hood in Texas?"
Alas, most Americans let this travesty slide down the memory hole. Thankfully, like he has with so many other unpopular positions, Barack Hussein Obama has "doubled down:" his support of the Ground Zero mosque is game, set, match.
As I wrote in my previous column, the true intentions of the mosque builders were revealed when they turned down NY Governor David Patterson's offer of state land in return for re-locating the mosque away from Ground Zero. They refused. That this "factoid" was seemingly irrelevant to the president speaks volumes.
It is worth remembering this is the same president who belittled ordinary Americans for "clinging" to religion. I guess Muslims "clinging" to a location that infuriates the overwhelming majority of Americans is perfectly fine, even after it's been revealed for the rankly provocative plan it truly is.
Ordinary Americans? They recognize a self-aggrandizing, holier-than-thou phony when they see one. They aren't fooled by a president who says that, "Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground"--only seconds before he reveals the total hollowness of that statement by saying he's fine with a mosque on top of it.
Some one must have told Mr. Obama it wasn't flying. On Saturday, he issued a "clarifying" statement: he wasn't commenting on the "wisdom" of putting a mosque in a particular location, but on the "right people have that dates back to our founding."
Baloney. Reasonable Americans aren't demanding anything remotely resembling a ban on Islam or the ability of its adherents to worship as they please. They're saying show some respect for American sensibilities, and don't build a mosque adjacent to the place where a national tragedy took place--one perpetrated in the name of Islam.
I have tremendous respect for the office of the presidency. That respect has gotten me and doubtless a lot of other Americans through some pretty tough times. And as much as I've disliked some of the people who've occupied that office, I've always taken comfort in the fact that, when push comes to shove, every one of those men, irrespective of political ideology, had America's best interests at heart.
No longer. For the first time in my lifetime, we have an alien in the White House.
Every weekday NewsAndOpinion.com publishes what many in the media and Washington consider "must-reading". HUNDREDS of columnists and cartoonists regularly appear. Sign up for the daily update. It's free. Just click here.
And that doesn't mean what some of you might think. For the purposes of this column, the "birther debate" is irrelevant. What I'm talking about is a man completely divorced from the American ethos. A man who is utterly clueless about what most Americans want, think or feel. The first president of the United States on the public record with the idea that American exceptionalism is nothing more than one item on a laundry list of national exceptionalisms--none better or worse than any other.
A man who will take America's side--only after he's concluded that it doesn't conflict with his larger worldview.
Sadly, we've reached a point where most Americans don't expect anything different. And why should they? This is a man up to his neck in meaningful associations with card-carrying members of the Hate America crowd--from boyhood mentor, communist Frank Marshall, and racist preacher, Jeremiah Wright, to Weather Underground terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn, and other rabid leftists. This is a man who has stacked his administration with a roster of radicals dedicated to the idea that America is a nation of unrepentant bigots, racists and other low-lifes who must be whipped into "progressive" shape. This is a man who learned--and taught--the "Alinsky Method," a blueprint for the radical re-organization of America by stealth.
Why has the president doggedly kept entire parts of his life, from his early college years straight through law school, away from public view? Bet the farm it's because any paper trail from those years would reveal this president to be the Marxist/socialist radical that occasionally breaches the "teleprompted" facade he has so carefully erected.
Last Friday, the mask slipped once again. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to point a comment directly towards the Cordoba House builders explaining that, while freedom of religion is a sacred American value, their refusal to accept an alternative site on state land offered by the governor is very troubling. He could have called their bluff and said he stands with the overwhelming majority of Americans who find such a refusal appalling. He could have said that "cultural sensitivity" is a two-way street, and that it is about time self-professed "moderate Muslims" demonstrated their moderation.
But he didn't. And he didn't because, for this "citizen of the world," the idea of "putting America first" requires considerable effort. Quite frankly, this is astounding. There is no other position in government where the idea of being "reflexively American" is more important. There is no other man in the country with the unfettered power to put American men and women in harm's way. That fact alone requires unstinting loyalty to our nation, and an unbridled sense of patriotism.
Is that what Americans see when they look at Barack Obama? Or do they see a narcissistic, serial apologizer, a split-the-difference-with-our-enemies appeaser who golfs and parties--while America burns?
This president, along with his lap-dog media supporters, will continue to tell Americans that their anger and disgust has little or nothing to do with the shortcomings of Barack Obama. Everything wrong with the country is "someone else's fault," be it "racist" tea partiers, "fat cat" bankers, "greedy" doctors, "irresponsible" corporations, Republicans, or their favorite whipping boy, George W. Bush.
Sorry, Mr. Obama, no sale. You've done a grand job of alienating the majority of Americans all by yourself. And you know it too, or you wouldn't have "clarified" your position on the Ground Zero mosque twenty four hours after the "real you" revealed itself.
Perhaps someday we'll have someone in the Oval Office with a more jaundiced view of America than yours. I hope I never live to see it. And I fervently hope Americans remember exactly who you are when 2012 rolls around. We can probably muddle through two more years with a charlatan in the White House.
Heaven help America if it's six.
________________________ ________________________ ___________
It is worth remembering this is the same president who belittled ordinary Americans for "clinging" to religion. I guess Muslims "clinging" to a location that infuriates the overwhelming majority of Americans is perfectly fine, even after it's been revealed for the rankly provocative plan it truly is.
Spot on.
Great article. It's just another example of Obama ignoring the opinion of most Americans and siding with the small minority who despise everything about this country.
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US born muslims in NYC are not clamoring for this pofs plan as there are hundreds of other mosques for them to pray in already.
This is the brain child of others not yet known from overseas who will funding this and knowing useful idiots and dupes like yourself will be supporting it under misquided notions of religious freedom, when nothing of the sort it as play here.
Sorry, to be so crass about it, but you are being played as a dupe and useful idiot in buying into this trash, just like you did with voting for Obama over Hillary.
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Great article. It's just another example of Obama ignoring the opinion of most Americans and siding with the small minority who despise everything about this country.
Siding with the constitutional..Do you understand the can of worms this will opened if it is blocked with the wrong premise....premise being that muslims suck...that aint gonna fly..but if it does..where would it stop
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Siding with the constitutional..Do you understand the can of worms this will opened if it is blocked with the wrong premise....premise being that muslims suck...that aint gonna fly..but if it does..where would it stop
Too bad you don't side with the constitution on anything else.
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Siding with the constitutional..Do you understand the can of worms this will opened if it is blocked with the wrong premise....premise being that muslims suck...that aint gonna fly..but if it does..where would it stop
Nowhere in the constitution does it say that people can build a house of worship anywhere they want. There have been multiple examples posted of people having their plans to build varying houses of worship denied. No where did anyone claim that their rights were violated as the constitution does not grant them the ability to build wherever they feel like it.
What the constitution allows is for them to practice Islam, and no one is arguing against that.
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Too bad you don't side with the constitution on anything else.
Prove it...tell me where i didnt side with the constitution on one issue...
thats a bold aligation my man...so you better be able to prove it
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thats dumb...its not that anyone is clinging to religion..they are clinging to their right as AMERICANS to build it legally...Why is this so hard to grasp...Jesus H Christ..
This dude who wrote this article is skilled in the art of blurring...and not the issue at hand...get a fucking grip...unless you prove to me that something is illegal and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.....the issue is the same...it is what we are founded on...Rights...God Damn...what the fuck is so difficult about this
I would still like to see your response to my question...here it is again..
What if the KKK wanted to put their headquarters at Martin Luther king's former house.....or they wanted to build it where that black guy James Byrd was dragged to death by some rednecks in a pickup truck till there was nothing left of him? Do you support that too? How much must something be in bad taste before you say, "That shit just ain't right !"
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Nowhere in the constitution does it say that people can build a house of worship anywhere they want. There have been multiple examples posted of people having their plans to build varying houses of worship denied. No where did anyone claim that their rights were violated as the constitution does not grant them the ability to build wherever they feel like it.
What the constitution allows is for them to practice Islam, and no one is arguing against that.
Right...so they practice islam and want to build a mosque right..Well if they passed all zoning codes..as well as everything else is legal...what legal grounds does anyone have to block them?
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Prove it...tell me where i didnt side with the constitution on one issue...
thats a bold aligation my man...so you better be able to prove it
Where was your ardent opposition to the mandate contained in ObamaCare?
Where is your opposition to the Obama Admn pursuing the Bush policies re: warrantless surveillance x 2?
Where is your opposition to the gross expansion of the Executive Branch under Obama?
Where is your opposition to the gross increase in Govt invoolvement in all areas of the economy?
Where is your opposition to the Obama Admn paying for the Imam to promote this mosque as well as the State Department building mosques overseas?
Some of your posts on these would be nice.
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I would still like to see your response to my question...here it is again..
What if the KKK wanted to put their headquarters at Martin Luther king's former house.....or they wanted to build it where that black guy James Byrd was dragged to death by some rednecks in a pickup truck till there was nothing left of him? Do you support that too? How much must something be in bad taste before you say, "That shit just ain't right !"
bro...i already answered that a few posts back...if they pass all codes and follow the law...how legaly can it be blocked...because i dont like them...that makes this great country that was built on freedom...no better than feudal societies where laws can be made up on the fly...i said also that i supported Don Imus' freedom of speech and condemned Sharpton for trying to have Imus suffer a penalty for expressing himself and his first ammendment right
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Right...so they practice islam and want to build a mosque right..Well if they passed all zoning codes..as well as everything else is legal...what legal grounds does anyone have to block them?
Is everything else legal, though? Look at all the shady shit going on with this mosque. Among the many shady things involving this shrine to Islamic supremacism, they claimed to own the property outright. Turns out they own 50% of it and the other 50% is owned by the state of NY and subject to approval by commission should it be sold. They claimed, in English, that it would be funded by American donations and then claimed in Arabic that it would be funded by foreign donations. It is illegal to take funding from organizations labeled as terrorist groups by our government and should it turn out that they're funding this through those groups, then criminal charges will be in order and the funding most likely confiscated.
Until matters like that get sorted out, their "legal right" to build it there is non-existent. At the least, it should be delayed indefinitely until all that is sorted out. The mad rush to get this thing built tells me that they're hiding something and trying to bury it.
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bro...i already answered that a few posts back...if they pass all codes and follow the law...how legaly can it be blocked...because i dont like them...that makes this great country that was built on freedom...no better than feudal societies where laws can be made up on the fly...i said also that i supported Don Imus' freedom of speech and condemned Sharpton for trying to have Imus suffer a penalty for expressing himself and his first ammendment right
Well...you might be OK with a Racist organization building their headquarters on the site of a hate crime..as in my James Byrd example..but I can assure you, it would never be allowed to be built. And you know Obama wouldn't support such an act. This Mosque idea is equally repugnant.
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If he already has a mosque and community 10 blocks from there as he claims, why does he need a new one right on Ground Zero? Is there a huge influx of muslims in the area that his mosque can't accomodate?
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Where was your ardent opposition to the mandate contained in ObamaCare?
Just because you preceive this to be Unstitutional ...it isnt...because i know youre a lawyer and i have been reading US constitutional Law since i was a kid, We can have a debate on the constitutional validity of the new healthcare bill...now tell me specifically what way it unconstitutional..and we will debate that.
Where is your opposition to the Obama Admn pursuing the Bush policies re: warrantless surveillance x 2?
And i do oppose warrantless surveillance...its just a fact that i dont like any infringments on freedoms. So here is my opposition...I oppose it
Where is your opposition to the gross expansion of the Executive Branch under Obama?
Be more specific...Because as i see it..there are many issues that the status quo is in opposition to the president..and he could order an executive order but he would go through the legislative channels to get it done...eg dont ask dont tell where he could stop it..and liberal talk radio was clamoring for him to do it..but i didnt agree with it...i think the branches are set up for a reason...and he hasnt trampled on them
Where is your opposition to the gross increase in Govt invoolvement in all areas of the economy?
Again..what instances are you talking about and match them up to a specific article in the constitution where it contradicts...
Where is your opposition to the Obama Admn paying for the Imam to promote this mosque as well as the State Department building mosques overseas?
And i havent read abou that..but again tell me specific articles in the constitution that it contradicts and if it does go against it...im against it
Some of your posts on these would be nice.
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If he already has a mosque and community 10 blocks from there as he claims, why does he need a new one right on Ground Zero? Is there a huge influx of muslims in the area that his mosque can't accomodate?
you don't have to be muslim, you can go swim in the pool or play basketball ;D oh theres one spot left in the GED class. ACCOMMODATE ;D
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you don't have to be muslim, you can go swim in the pool or play basketball ;D oh theres one spot left in the GED class. ACCOMMODATE ;D
Maybe I will go piss in the pool if this thing is ever opened and let loss some small pigs to run around.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it never gets built. The Democrats are starting to realize what the consequences are going to be for continuing to go against the will of the majority of America for issues like illegal immigration and now this Mosque....Don't be surprised if some unknown contingency suddenly appears that prohibits the Mosque being built. The Dems don't want to alienate everyone and they are already trying..before the elections..to disassociate themselves with Obama. They know only radicals and far left loons are still on Obama's side.
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Im on the side of the constitution..not the ever changing fickle will of a section of Americans...
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Im on the side of the constitution..not the ever changing fickle will of a section of Americans...
GMAFBl. You are a nice guy, but please.
Your silence on the mandate in obamacare and everything else I listed before which your were silent on destroys any credibility you may have on this.
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GMAFBl. You are a nice guy, but please.
Your silence on the mandate in obamacare and everything else I listed before which your were silent on destroys any credibility you may have on this.
What are you talking about...i just responded to each alligation of UnAmericanism...Because i disagree with you dosent make me it unconstitutional...
And like i said...Show me...Showe me the bill and where it specifically contradicts the constitution...and if you show me..then i will condemn it..but just beause you disagree with something dont make it unconstitutional
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What are you talking about...i just responded to each alligation of UnAmericanism...Because i disagree with you dosent make me it unconstitutional...
And like i said...Show me...Showe me the bill and where it specifically contradicts the constitution...and if you show me..then i will condemn it..but just beause you disagree with something dont make it unconstitutional
There are tons of lawsuits currently filed challenging the constituionality of that povision.
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There are tons of lawsuits currently filed challenging the constituionality of that povision.
You show me where the provision is unconstitutional...show me the provision and where it contradicts the US constitution.
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You show me where the provision is unconstitutional...show me the provision and where it contradicts the US constitution.
Again fool - where does the constitution provide the federal govt the power to mandate that I purchase a private product from a private company as a condition of living?
This is why libs are only 20% at best of the population, you guys are a hypocritical joke at best. AWB - fine, obamacare mandate - fine, Imam Faesal being paid by State Dept to promote the mosque - fine, State Dept. funding mosques - fine, and on and on and on.
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Again fool - where does the constitution provide the federal govt the power to mandate that I purchase a private product from a private company as a condition of living?
This is why libs are only 20% at best of the population, you guys are a hypocritical joke at best. AWB - fine, obamacare mandate - fine, Imam Faesal being paid by State Dept to promote the mosque - fine, State Dept. funding mosques - fine, and on and on and on.
alls i asked you to do was show me where it happened..
I wasnt forced to buy insurance..neither were any of my friends...some of them dont have insurance right now...they werent forced...and what are the penalities if they dont byt healthcare?
Tell me the legal reasons the mosque isnt to be built. And why
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Again fool - where does the constitution provide the federal govt the power to mandate that I purchase a private product from a private company as a condition of living?
This is why libs are only 20% at best of the population, you guys are a hypocritical joke at best. AWB - fine, obamacare mandate - fine, Imam Faesal being paid by State Dept to promote the mosque - fine, State Dept. funding mosques - fine, and on and on and on.
and about me being a lib ...it goes like this...If it matches the constitution...im good with it...if not...then im not. im not all one thing...If you are..then you are an idiot. ..like you 3333
I want tougher borders...and i blame obama just like i blamed bush for it...
but my thing is this..when did personal issues become a political parties platform
gay marriage
for = democrat
against = repub...
i just dont understand...
guns= repub
no guns= demo...
thats just dumb because i am for gay marriages..i want you to be happy 333 :)
but i also want to keep my 2nd ammendment right to drop a mutha fucka with my p99
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You show me where the provision is unconstitutional...show me the provision and where it contradicts the US constitution.
The powers of the federal government are limited to the powers granted by the constitution. Meaning, because the constitution doesn't say the government can't do something doesn't mean they can. Their powers are easily ans simply listed. The powers not listed, the things they are not given power to do nor prohibited from doing, these powers are granted to the states and they may choose how to function within these powers so as long as nothing they do goes against the powers granted to the federal government.
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Why is it defamation and slander? Truth is a absolute defense in a court of law.
And inciting a situation? I agree with you which is why I would not do that, even though I may have a technical right to do it.
Can you even slander a public figure such as the president?
Jesse Ventura got in hot water when he called some politician a "commie" on his radio show years ago.
The guy threatened legal action, but Ventura's lawyers assured him that you can publicly state any opinion you want regarding a public figure because, as one, they voluntarily offer themselves up for an and all criticism.
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Can you even slander a public figure such as the president?
Jesse Ventura got in hot water when he called some politician a "commie" on his radio show years ago.
The guy threatened legal action, but Ventura's lawyers assured him that you can publicly state any opinion you want regarding a public figure because, as one, they voluntarily offer themselves up for an and all criticism.
Again - just because I have a right to call obama a racist name and derogatory things on a huge sign so his kids can see it does not make it right to do.
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Obama’s Mosque Stand: Again, Not Ready For PrimeTime
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In 2008, in both the Democrat nomination process as well as the general election, candidates that faced off against Barack Obama, time and again, stated that Obama was simply not ready for prime time. His inexperience was a major hindrance to being an effective President. Then Sen. Joe Biden (now Vice President Joseph Biden) stated the Presidency is not a position for ‘on the job training’.
How true that is.
Forget about the multiple foreign policy blunders. Forget about the inability to have any coherent economic policy other than tax-and-spend. Dismiss the fact that Obama doesn’t really care about securing the border, illegal immigration, or a multitude of other issues that the public is concerned about.
Let us simply look at the hard nosed politics involved.
And even in that arena, Obama falls far short.
The latest example is the mosque that is being considered for lower Manhattan, just blocks from the World Trade Center site.
Forget the argument over the mosque itself; many, if not most, bloggers have discussed the right of freedom of religion versus the common sense questioning of if the mosque location is appropriate. I will leave that argument to others.
But what is more interesting in the long term for the people of the United States, and Democrats in particular, is Obama’s tone deaf political nature.
For weeks, the White House actually took the smartest approach to the mosque controversy: “It is a local issue”. Honestly, I don’t think George W. Bush would have had a different policy. It is a local issue, ultimately, despite the constitutional repercussions. White House spokesperson Robert Gibbs, over and over, refused to respond to questions about the mosque, deferring to the city of New York.
And then, our President-in-training came out to play.
Obama, at a White House celebration for Ramadan, took what sounded like a firm stand in support of the mosque.
“Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country,” he said to applause from the largely Muslim crowd.
That would have been fine…but Obama took it a step further. The entire quote:
But let me be clear. As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the founders must endure.
That was a far more reaching statement than simply defending the mosque supporters First Amendment rights. It appeared as a tacit approval of the site itself.
This is the part where the West Wing got spooked. Vulnerable Democrats, many moderates in risky seats, were outraged. Not so much for the Constitutional stand (which even right wingers have accepted), but for the blanket statement of support for the mosque at a time when many, if not most, Americans oppose the mosque site.
On Saturday, the president said, “I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque” near Ground Zero, he told reporters during a visit to the Gulf Coast. “I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding.”
Except, sir, that you already commented on the wisdom and decision.
The irony is, between the time of the comments on Friday and the Saturday ‘revision’, many liberal outlets praised Obama’s courage under fire. One example, from Greg Sargent of the Washington Post:
Obama didn’t just stand up for the legal right of the group to build the Islamic center. He voiced powerful support for their moral right to do so as well, casting it as central to American identity. … Obama went much further than [to acknowledge the legal rights of the project's backers]. He asserted that we must “welcome” and “respect” those of other faiths, suggesting that the group behind the center deserves the same, and said flat out that anything less is un-American.
Which was fine…until the President, and later the White House itself, quickly and abruptly backed away from this ‘moral stand’.
The whole thing is a joke. First, the President was stupid to involve himself in the debate in the first place. This is a local issue that should be decided by the people of New York City. Second, once he decided to wade into the debate, the least he could have done is actually take a principled stand. Mr. Obama’s stand, I believe, is incorrect in its blanket approval of the mosque site, simply because of the First Amendment; the issue is much more complicated than that. But as the Constitutional professor he thinks himself to be, for him it was a black and white issue…with no middle ground. That is an analysis that 70% of Americans disagree with, if you believe recent polling. Then, to compound the matter, he could not even stand up for those principles (and who of us don’t believe he was speaking the truth from his liberal, left-leaning heart when he spoke on Friday?). So, in the matter of 24 hours, he alienated the 70% of Americans against the mosque site, then alienated the Muslims he tried to reach out to, as well as much of the Democrat Party.
Pretty impressive.
It speaks volumes when most Democrats want no part of this. Senators Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand won’t touch the issue with a 10 foot pole. Harry Reid came out against the mosque site today, in stark contrast to the White House.
“The main reaction is ‘Why? Why now?’” said one House Democratic leadership aide. “It’s just another day off message. There have been a lot of days off message.”
The chief of staff to one politically vulnerable House Democrat said it “probably alienates a lot of independent voters” and “it’s not a good issue to be talking about right now.”
The answer, my Democrat brothers, is simple: when you pick a neophyte to be your leader…you get what you pay for.
________________________ ________________________ _______-
So, in the matter of 24 hours, he alienated the 70% of Americans against the mosque site, then alienated the Muslims he tried to reach out to, as well as much of the Democrat Party.
Yet the libs call Palin dumb? ::)
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Again - just because I have a right to call obama a racist name and derogatory things on a huge sign so his kids can see it does not make it right to do.
Oh, I know you wouldn’t because you have morals and are ethical, as well as sensitive to the consideration of others.
My inquiry was based purely on a hypothetical scenario.
So, in the matter of 24 hours, he alienated the 70% of Americans against the mosque site, then alienated the Muslims he tried to reach out to, as well as much of the Democrat Party.
I can't understand why more Democrats aren't disillusioned and upset with stunts like these.
He's winning the November elections for the Conservatives, just as "Junior" all but secured the Dems the WH 20 months earlier.
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Wow, NBC just had a blurb on about the 'real' WTC mosque.
It is 4 blocks from the world trade center. It was there before the WTC went up. They showed video of it.
Nobody bitched about it. So the religion isn't the problem? Rather, it's just this particular group that yall don't like? Or you just didn't know about this smaller 'house of worship' which was there all along?
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hahahaha oh brother... Daily show playing old video.
This Iman was a guest on FOX NEWS this year.
Wow... this "guy" supported the attacks right after 911, blamed american for it.
I wonder why FOX news would bring this guy on as a guest.
(Not only that, but they played his 9/30/01 comments about how the US was to blame for 911... then they showed glen beck saying THE EXACT SAME THING just 3 months ago. geez)
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Wow, NBC just had a blurb on about the 'real' WTC mosque.
It is 4 blocks from the world trade center. It was there before the WTC went up. They showed video of it.
Nobody bitched about it. So the religion isn't the problem? Rather, it's just this particular group that yall don't like? Or you just didn't know about this smaller 'house of worship' which was there all along?
yes it is.
still, like john bohenner and every other voice whose sole job it is to shit on everything obama does, you have to take their opinion with a grain of salt.
hmmm doesnt sound like you took msnbc's words with a grain of salt...wonder why ???
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dude, i outright ASKED getbiggers if it was that religion that was the problem - or just the one particular dude that talked shit after 911 and had all sorts of questionable $ ties.
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dude, i outright ASKED getbiggers if it was that religion that was the problem - or just the one particular dude that talked shit after 911 and had all sorts of questionable $ ties.
what does that have to do with you not taking msnbc's broadcast with a grain of salt?
hmmm I wonder why you would make a point of saying that about a conservative source but not msnbc? :-\ its a puzzler...
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Wow, NBC just had a blurb on about the 'real' WTC mosque.
It is 4 blocks from the world trade center. It was there before the WTC went up. They showed video of it.
Nobody bitched about it. So the religion isn't the problem? Rather, it's just this particular group that yall don't like? Or you just didn't know about this smaller 'house of worship' which was there all along?
You just don't get it, do you? This mosque is going up 600 feet from Ground Zero. That's about as close as you can get in the city without actually being on top of the site. It's not 4 blocks and it wasn't there before.
The name alone tells you what this mosque is. Cordoba, Spain was conquered by the Moors and while the Muslims will tell you that the three religions lived in harmony, the actual truth is that both Christians and Jews were second-class, subjugated citizens where they were subjected to a number of atrocities and other kafir punishments, which included being barred from certain jobs and being forced to wear different clothing signifying their kafir status. This mosque is a symbol of Islamic supremacism over that area.
Muslims are notorious for building triumphal mosques on the cherished sites of conquered peoples. And that's exactly what they are doing here.
Now, instead of flat-out lying about what's in the constitution of this country (as you've been doing for a week now), go educate yourself on the topic.
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I wonder if these people would approve of a mosque there? ::)
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You just don't get it, do you? This mosque is going up 600 feet from Ground Zero. That's about as close as you can get in the city without actually being on top of the site. It's not 4 blocks and it wasn't there before.
The name alone tells you what this mosque is. Cordoba, Spain was conquered by the Moors and while the Muslims will tell you that the three religions lived in harmony, the actual truth is that both Christians and Jews were second-class, subjugated citizens where they were subjected to a number of atrocities and other kafir punishments, which included being barred from certain jobs and being forced to wear different clothing signifying their kafir status. This mosque is a symbol of Islamic supremacism over that area.
Muslims are notorious for building triumphal mosques on the cherished sites of conquered peoples. And that's exactly what they are doing here.
Now, instead of flat-out lying about what's in the constitution of this country (as you've been doing for a week now), go educate yourself on the topic.
"The Cordoba Mosque Project" is what this is. Earlier in this thread, I raised the question of how interesting it was that the Imam and whoever else behind this would name it after such a Mosque. You are very correct in your statement about all other religions being second class and subject to discrimination, torture and other inhumane treatment as that was "the way things were". This is direct provocation and they didn't pick the name "Cordoba" and the location of the site by accident, or to lead the way to religious harmony. Islam isn't about harmony with others, it never was and it never will be.
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Gigantor - I live here and people are really livid. I mean really livid now. The KSM trials were one thing, and I attended those protests.
But this is a whole other matter. Obama is going to spark civil violence if he does not stop this bs, or worse.
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Gigantor - I live here and people are really livid. I mean really livid now. The KSM trials were one thing, and I attended those protests.
But this is a whole other matter. Obama is going to spark civil violence if he does not stop this bs, or worse.
RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Gigantor - I live here and people are really livid. I mean really livid now. The KSM trials were one thing, and I attended those protests.
But this is a whole other matter. Obama is going to spark civil violence if he does not stop this bs, or worse.
That might be what it takes, 3!
My Uncle has been saying for years that the time will come when we have to "take our guns to Washington."
While I always thought he was embellishing more than a bit, I can now see he might be right.
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RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dog v. 9mm = no match.
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I just saw Bloomberg on TV saying "where freedom was attacked" about Ground Zero.
Does he say this often? Seems very Bush-esque for Bloomberg to me, so I was curious.
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I just saw Bloomberg on TV saying "where freedom was attacked" about Ground Zero.
Does he say this often? Seems very Bush-esque for Bloomberg to me, so I was curious.
Bloomberg has cratered in popularity over this issue locally.
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Bob freaking nails it.
Bob for Prez.
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Bob freaking nails it.
Bob for Prez.
That guy is funny.
Obama won't be leaving the White House in November 2012, even if he loses the election.
And how is he sure that Al Qaeda is funding the mosque?
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Wouldn't surprise me if the "religion of peace" just used the building to pack a few tons of TNT and try to finish the job on NYC...
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Show, stop sterotyping.
It's not fair.
Don't let that 98.7% influence your perception of the rest.
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I am sick of the apologists for this thing. Just because they have a legal right to do this does not make it right.
Additionally, anyone who supposedly claims to want to build bridges and promote tolerance does not as his first act piss on the graves of the dead where people in the name of his own religion committed the larget act of mass murder in US history.
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Um...
Why are we the ones building bridges?
They attacked us!
What message are we trying to convey - "We're sorry you killed 3,000 of our innocent citizens. Here's another mosque. Please forgive us."
Besides, they already have the right to practice their religion here.
What difference will one more mosque make?
All of the information points to the real reasons they want this thing built.
We all know what those reasons are.
A few just fail to acknowledge them.
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Um...
Why are we the ones building bridges?
They attacked us!
What message are we trying to convey - "We're sorry you killed 3,000 of our innocent citizens. Here's another mosque. Please forgive us."
Besides, they already have the right to practice their religion here.
What difference will one more mosque make?
All of the information points to the real reasons they want this thing built.
We all know what those reasons are.
A few just fail to acknowledge them.
And the dupes and useful idiots on the left allowing themselves to again to be played for fools under misguided notions of tolerance, fairness, etc.
They cling on to the most vacuous arguments and dont want to hear anything else.
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I am sick of the apologists for this thing. Just because they have a legal right to do this does not make it right.
You feel they have a legal right to build this mosque there?
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And the dupes and useful idiots on the left allowing themselves to again to be played for fools under misguided notions of tolerance, fairness, etc.
They cling on to the most vacuous arguments and dont want to hear anything else.
I still fail to understand how or why anyone so vehemently defends the rights of a religion-based terrorist network and their supporters to our Constitution.
Do you think the Founding Fathers had this in mind when they penned the Constitution?
Our Founding Fathers blew off people’s heads for taxing their morning beverage.
They would never stand for this shit.
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Yeah 240 - this thing really seems like its on the up and up. ::) ::)
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Imam Feisal Watch: Let’s Try It Again, Where’s the Man Behind the GZ Mosque?
Pajamas Media ^ | August 16, 2010 | Claudia Rosett
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:12:23 AM by Kaslin
Where exactly is Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man behind the $100 million Ground Zero mosque project? I keep asking because weeks after he stopped answering any questions about his “Cordoba House” plans, there is still no answer.
By now, there is information in Rauf’s silence. He launched his Ground Zero mosque and Islamic center project in the name of “dialogue,” “outreach” and “bridge-building” in lower Manhattan. In doing so, he trampled on raw feelings, and set off a divisive debate. Rauf’s apparent dismissal of public questions as not worth his time, while he travels to the Middle East on U.S. taxpayer money, suggests enormous contempt for the American public.
Rauf dropped out of sight weeks ago, and as far as I can discover, he hasn’t answered any questions from the press since Reuters spoke to him by phone on July 22nd. (When I surprised him at his office in Malaysia on July 30th, Malaysian time, after his New York office said he was traveling and unreachable, he got right back off the phone to return to an “important meeting,” and then referred all further questions back to his office in New York.)
So, as far as I can discover, it’s now almost four weeks since Rauf last took any questions from the U.S. media or public. All we really know at this point is that after spending time in Malaysia (Did he go anywhere else? Who knows?), Rauf is due right around now to be meeting and greeting in some of the petro-dollar capitals of the Middle East — as part of a multi-week Ramadan “public diplomacy” tour hosted by the State Department, courtesy of the U.S. embassies in Qatar, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates.
If Rauf is there for “public diplomacy,” or “bridge-building,” or “outreach,” or whatever we’re calling such junkets these days, then what is his day-to-day schedule? Who is he meeting with? Where is he right now? Why should both Rauf and the State Department be treating the details of his “public diplomacy” tour as something to be kept secret from the American public?
Apart from confirming the destinations to which his taxpayer-bankrolled tickets will take him, and where taxpayer money will cover his hotels and his per diems, the State Department in Washington has refused to provide any details. Last week, the U.S. Embassy in Bahrain told me that Rauf is expected there Aug. 19, and will stay for “a couple of days.” But none of the other embassies he’s visiting were willing to say anything on the record, and I have yet to find a jot of information about his current trip on any of their web sites.
Most telling: From Rauf, self-proclaimed “bridge-builder,” there has been no word. His Cordoba Initiative foundation has been tweeting and blogging and posting away about assorted endorsements of his Ground Zero mosque project. But of Rauf’s taxpayer-funded travels to the Middle East, there is no news. No chatty missive from the imam about who’s on his dance card in Doha, or Manama, or Dubai, or Abu Dhabi. No updates on how or where or from whom he is now expecting to procure the $100 million for his Cordoba House. Nor is there any detail about the itinerary of his wife and partner in Islamic nonprofits, Daisy Khan, for whom the State Department has arranged her own taxpayer-funded junket to Dubai and Abu Dhabi this same month.
It’s easy to lose sight of the imam’s vanishing act, because his name is everywhere. Just about everyone from the Palestinian terrorists of Hamas to President Barack Obama has been busy talking about Rauf’s $100 million Ground Zero mosque project. Obama weighed in Friday evening at a White House Ramadan dinner, and then sorta kinda tried to weigh back out over the weekend. The Cordoba Initiative, on its blog, is playing up his remarks as an endorsement. The New York Post reports that a Hamas leader in Gaza, Mahmoud al-Zahar, is thrilled about Rauf’s mosque project. And we all know by now that Mayor Michael Bloomberg has been cheering it on, and doesn’t care where the money comes from.
But where is Rauf? Has anyone had a sighting? What was he doing for weeks in Malaysia? Who was at that “important meeting” in his Kuala Lumpur office? What is he doing right now in the Gulf (if, indeed, he is now there)? What will be the choreography of his reappearance when he finally deigns to return to New York? And what does his choice of this lengthy communications blackout tell us about his respect — or lack of respect — for the American public?
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Yeah 240 - this thing really seems like its on the up and up. ::) ::)
I didn't ask you if it was on the up-and-up. Sounds like a shady bunch to me.
I wondered if they have a legal right to build. You seemed to suggest they did:
Just because they have a legal right to do this does not make it right.
So are you, a lawyer, admitting you believe they have a LEGAL RIGHT to build? Let's toss the morality out for a minute... let's nail down the legal issue, then we can get into the ethics.
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I didn't ask you if it was on the up-and-up. Sounds like a shady bunch to me.
I wondered if they have a legal right to build. You seemed to suggest they did:
So are you, a lawyer, admitting you believe they have a LEGAL RIGHT to build? Let's toss the morality out for a minute... let's nail down the legal issue, then we can get into the ethics.
They don't have an unfettered legal right. They have the same right as anyone else who would want to build something there and they have gone through the channels, etc etc. However, the funding of this is dubious and in IMHO should hold this thing up pending full disclosure.
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The President Distorts Arguments on Ground Zero Mosque
Townhall.com ^ | August 17, 2010 | Michael Medved
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:17:46 AM by Kaslin
________________________ ________________________ ____________________
On Friday night, the President of the United States plunged into the long-simmering controversy surrounding a proposed Islamic Center in Lower Manhattan, mischaracterizing the underlying issues while avoiding a clear position on the project itself. In his carefully prepared remarks to a religious Muslim audience, Mr. Obama chastised opponents of the Mosque for disregarding time-honored principles of religious liberty, and interfering with freedom of worship for Muslims. The next day, he insisted that he never meant to express an opinion on the wisdom or suitability of the specific site for the new center, implying that he might even sympathize with calls for its relocation.
In the process of his unfolding explanations, the president seemed to be arguing with phantoms, or with straw men. None of the prominent critics of Cordoba House deny that Muslims deserve the same freedom as other religious groups to build houses of worship to serve their adherents.
But no faith community can use religious liberty as an excuse to build whatever they want wherever they want it. All major projects – whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or secular – must pass tests of suitability and, in some cases, change plans to accommodate community concerns.
In the case of this particular project, the widespread discomfort goes far beyond worries of direct connections with Al Qaeda or other radicals.
No, all Muslims aren’t the same, but all Mosques are the same, in one important sense at least: they all celebrate Islam. They exalt its teachings, traditions, history and adherents.
Yes, American Muslims enjoy a right to celebrate their faith in their mosques.
But it remains wildly inappropriate to celebrate and glorify one particular faith at the scene of one of the most notorious crimes in its history.
The lot Imam Rauf has selected holds no sacred meaning for Muslims, but profound significance to the families and friends who lost loved ones in the immediate vicinity. Only one important event in Islamic history ever occurred near the site proposed for the most ambitious Muslim center in the nation – and that event involved the mass murder of 3,000 American innocents.
If moderate Muslims seek to build on this particular site they should be a mourning monument to the fallen, with explicit acknowledgement of the twisted, evil theology that motivated their killers. It shouldn’t be a glitzy, 13-story, triumphal structure that aims to become the most visible national center for Islamic faith and culture.
The insistence on creating such a building on such a place sends a dishonest, disturbing message: that Islam itself bears no special connection to the attacks of 9/11, and that the Mosque’s planners feel no shame over their co-religionists who planned and executed those crimes.
There’s only one other possible interpretation of the stubborn refusal to relocate the project, and it’s even more alarming: that in some way, the mosque builders aren’t ashamed at what occurred at Ground Zero, they are actually proud of it.
This relates to the understandably complex reaction of even some sane, decent Muslims to the revolting misdeeds of the radicals who share essential elements of their faith. Yes, they’re all horrified by the bloody deeds of Osama and his henchmen but those crimes brought Islam back to the center stage of world events, ending the sense of irrelevance and impotence. In a similar way, the Cordoba House project is an effort to bring new prominence and attention to a religious faith that claims 1% of the U.S. population (according to the best available figures) – an effort that is successfully using the public controversy and sense of outrage to achieve its over-arching goal of seizing the spotlight.
Muslims of every orientation should feel shame and regret at Ground Zero – even those Muslims who never endorsed or sanctioned jihadist terror. All Christians feel ashamed at sites where their clergy and crusaders twisted the faith and perpetrated horrors – even if those atrocities occurred hundreds of years ago. No contemporary Christian would propose a gleaming, soaring new religious structure adjacent to the site of some bloody pogrom or massacre visited upon innocent victims in the name of Christ.
Scenes of horrific carnage should never become the focus for pride and glorification of the creed that inspired the mass murderers. Those sites must honor the dead, not their killers.
The determination to go forward with the controversial mosque, and the president’s dismissive tone in defending those plans, both try to deny or erase the connection between Islamic teachings and the terrorists who murdered in their name.
In his speech on the subject, Mr. Obama stoutly declared, “This is America” – as if only one side of the argument represented true American values.
Actually, one of our most important national traditions involves the emphasis on personal responsibility and accountability. Any effort to ignore (or, even worse, to glorify) the connection between Islam and the crimes of September 11th is an insult – and an assault – on that proud American principle.
________________________ ________________________ ________________
Best article I have read yet on this subject.
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So then exactly how does a thing like this get the go ahead? Who(s) voted it in?
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The President Distorts Arguments on Ground Zero Mosque
Townhall.com ^ | August 17, 2010 | Michael Medved
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:17:46 AM by Kaslin
________________________ ________________________ ____________________
On Friday night, the President of the United States plunged into the long-simmering controversy surrounding a proposed Islamic Center in Lower Manhattan, mischaracterizing the underlying issues while avoiding a clear position on the project itself. In his carefully prepared remarks to a religious Muslim audience, Mr. Obama chastised opponents of the Mosque for disregarding time-honored principles of religious liberty, and interfering with freedom of worship for Muslims. The next day, he insisted that he never meant to express an opinion on the wisdom or suitability of the specific site for the new center, implying that he might even sympathize with calls for its relocation.
In the process of his unfolding explanations, the president seemed to be arguing with phantoms, or with straw men. None of the prominent critics of Cordoba House deny that Muslims deserve the same freedom as other religious groups to build houses of worship to serve their adherents.
But no faith community can use religious liberty as an excuse to build whatever they want wherever they want it. All major projects – whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or secular – must pass tests of suitability and, in some cases, change plans to accommodate community concerns.
In the case of this particular project, the widespread discomfort goes far beyond worries of direct connections with Al Qaeda or other radicals.
No, all Muslims aren’t the same, but all Mosques are the same, in one important sense at least: they all celebrate Islam. They exalt its teachings, traditions, history and adherents.
Yes, American Muslims enjoy a right to celebrate their faith in their mosques.
But it remains wildly inappropriate to celebrate and glorify one particular faith at the scene of one of the most notorious crimes in its history.
The lot Imam Rauf has selected holds no sacred meaning for Muslims, but profound significance to the families and friends who lost loved ones in the immediate vicinity. Only one important event in Islamic history ever occurred near the site proposed for the most ambitious Muslim center in the nation – and that event involved the mass murder of 3,000 American innocents.
If moderate Muslims seek to build on this particular site they should be a mourning monument to the fallen, with explicit acknowledgement of the twisted, evil theology that motivated their killers. It shouldn’t be a glitzy, 13-story, triumphal structure that aims to become the most visible national center for Islamic faith and culture.
The insistence on creating such a building on such a place sends a dishonest, disturbing message: that Islam itself bears no special connection to the attacks of 9/11, and that the Mosque’s planners feel no shame over their co-religionists who planned and executed those crimes.
There’s only one other possible interpretation of the stubborn refusal to relocate the project, and it’s even more alarming: that in some way, the mosque builders aren’t ashamed at what occurred at Ground Zero, they are actually proud of it.
This relates to the understandably complex reaction of even some sane, decent Muslims to the revolting misdeeds of the radicals who share essential elements of their faith. Yes, they’re all horrified by the bloody deeds of Osama and his henchmen but those crimes brought Islam back to the center stage of world events, ending the sense of irrelevance and impotence. In a similar way, the Cordoba House project is an effort to bring new prominence and attention to a religious faith that claims 1% of the U.S. population (according to the best available figures) – an effort that is successfully using the public controversy and sense of outrage to achieve its over-arching goal of seizing the spotlight.
Muslims of every orientation should feel shame and regret at Ground Zero – even those Muslims who never endorsed or sanctioned jihadist terror. All Christians feel ashamed at sites where their clergy and crusaders twisted the faith and perpetrated horrors – even if those atrocities occurred hundreds of years ago. No contemporary Christian would propose a gleaming, soaring new religious structure adjacent to the site of some bloody pogrom or massacre visited upon innocent victims in the name of Christ.
Scenes of horrific carnage should never become the focus for pride and glorification of the creed that inspired the mass murderers. Those sites must honor the dead, not their killers.
The determination to go forward with the controversial mosque, and the president’s dismissive tone in defending those plans, both try to deny or erase the connection between Islamic teachings and the terrorists who murdered in their name.
In his speech on the subject, Mr. Obama stoutly declared, “This is America” – as if only one side of the argument represented true American values.
Actually, one of our most important national traditions involves the emphasis on personal responsibility and accountability. Any effort to ignore (or, even worse, to glorify) the connection between Islam and the crimes of September 11th is an insult – and an assault – on that proud American principle.
________________________ ________________________ ________________
Best article I have read yet on this subject.
Great article.
240 has been avoiding Kazan's questions about the constitution while parroting the lie that anyone can build a house of worship anywhere they want and at anytime they please (despite mountains of evidence pointing to the contrary). He's terribly uninformed and his continued avoidance of a simple question shows that he was caught out in his disinformation game.
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The insistence on creating such a building on such a place sends a dishonest, disturbing message: that Islam itself bears no special connection to the attacks of 9/11, and that the Mosque’s planners feel no shame over their co-religionists who planned and executed those crimes.
There’s only one other possible interpretation of the stubborn refusal to relocate the project, and it’s even more alarming: that in some way, the mosque builders aren’t ashamed at what occurred at Ground Zero, they are actually proud of it.
________________________ ________________________ ______
This is the truth that the dupes and apologists don't want to address.
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The insistence on creating such a building on such a place sends a dishonest, disturbing message: that Islam itself bears no special connection to the attacks of 9/11, and that the Mosque’s planners feel no shame over their co-religionists who planned and executed those crimes.
There’s only one other possible interpretation of the stubborn refusal to relocate the project, and it’s even more alarming: that in some way, the mosque builders aren’t ashamed at what occurred at Ground Zero, they are actually proud of it.
________________________ ________________________ ______
This is the truth that the dupes and apologists don't want to address.
They ignore it while thumping their chests and lying about the Constitution.
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Who here supports this?
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Scenes of horrific carnage should never become the focus for pride and glorification of the creed that inspired the mass murderers. Those sites must honor the dead, not their killers.
________________________ _____________________
How freaking hard is this for you people to grasp?
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Who here supports this?
The POTUS, Bloomberg, Cuomo, Nadler, Big Mal, Samson, Jag, 240, Blacken, etc.
I'm sure Benny and a few others love the idea as well.
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a friend sent me this "tweet" this morning.
I have no clue who said it but it made me laugh
In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003.
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a friend sent me this "tweet" this morning.
I have no clue who said it but it made me laugh
In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003.
yeah, as a result of islamic terrorists using the mosques to launch attacks on troops and weapons depots.
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The reaction? Nada. Later that month, in fact, conservative radio host Laura Ingraham interviewed the imam's wife on "O'Reilly Factor" and said: "I can't find many people who really have a problem with it. . . . I like what you're trying to do."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/17/AR2010081701473.html?hpid=topnews
Just thought I would throw this in the mix.
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That was from a Dec -09, I believe.
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yeah, as a result of islamic terrorists using the mosques to launch attacks on troops and weapons depots.
chicken or egg?
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Who here supports this?
I support the constitution of the united states that says we cant make rules off of how we feel...
Thats what i support....i dont even know what the argument is. Tell me what grounds anyone has not to allow this...
But the reasons ive been hearing have been basically "the people who blew it up were muslims so.....in some sort of way all muslims share a part in it and we cant build a mosque..." Its fucking retarded and ass backwards...Maybe in another country but not this one God damn it. Jesus H Christ..What is the argument. Its pretty open and shut..Its America...FUCK...im getting a headache ova hea
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Obama won't be leaving the White House in November 2012, even if he loses the election.
What do you mean garebear?
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I support the constitution of the united states that says we cant make rules off of how we feel...
Thats what i support....i dont even know what the argument is. Tell me what grounds anyone has not to allow this...
But the reasons ive been hearing have been basically "the people who blew it up were muslims so.....in some sort of way all muslims share a part in it and we cant build a mosque..." Its fucking retarded and ass backwards...Maybe in another country but not this one God damn it. Jesus H Christ..What is the argument. Its pretty open and shut..Its America...FUCK...im getting a headache ova hea
Good I hope you applaud me when i build a shrine to the KKK and James Earl Ray at MLK's grave site. Or how about a shring to the Emporer of Japan on a floating barge over the Arizone in Pearl Harbor?
If muslims insist on this, they should not be surprised when most people consider them no different than the westboro baptist scum bags.
Again Mal you say you support the const yey are silent on Obama paying for the Imam to promote this thing and fuind building mosques overseas. Basically, you are fos on this.
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What do you mean garebear?
It means that this POFS is so used to wasting our money and living the life of a king on everyones' back that even when he gets booted in the elections, he will find a way to hold on to the life he is leading on our dime.
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Another thing, how does Obama reconcile the fact that he is telling the Israelis where they can and cant build in Israel based on Muslim sensitivies, but does not want to allow anything of the sort here?
More hypocrisy and nonsense from "The One".
Hey Mal, 240, Blacken, Straw, and the rest of you dopes who voted for Obama - remember this gem you suckers ate up and fell for? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - you people are so gullible its not even funny.
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Good I hope you applaud me when i build a shrine to the KKK and James Earl Ray at MLK's grave site. Or how about a shring to the Emporer of Japan on a floating barge over the Arizone in Pearl Harbor?
If muslims insist on this, they should not be surprised when most people consider them no different than the westboro baptist scum bags.
Again Mal you say you support the const yey are silent on Obama paying for the Imam to promote this thing and fuind building mosques overseas. Basically, you are fos on this.
Its America, And me and my mom were talking yesterday and i guess thats the argument that has been raised...the kkk mlk thing...And yes...it is your right as an AMERICAN citizen to build what you want where you want as long as its lawful...WHAT THE FUCK GROUNDS WOULD I HAVE TO STOP IT... Because i dont like you? AS AN ESQ YOU KNOW BETTER...ITS NOT THE AMERICAN WAY....We dont govern off of feelings....GOD DAMN WHAT THE HELL ARE WE TALKING ABOUT.
And quit saying Muslims muslims muslims...Dude there are millions of Muslims tho dont suscribe to that crazy batshit stuff...but We as Americans can be so tunnel visioned. Grow the fuck up.
And the imam thing. First of all you know how you like to gay up shit with extreme hyperbole and misleading wording to get a point accross ike a woman who argues something...the most vile shit someone can do in my opinion. So i have to totally read a non bias report on this. But as long as nothing illegal has occured WHAT LAWS STOP IT..
Again..because "Im not feelin them fools" is not a valid explaination in opposition to this..well legally it aint...i swear this is like talking to 6 year olds...
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Its America, And me and my mom were talking yesterday and i guess thats the argument that has been raised...the kkk mlk thing...And yes...it is your right as an AMERICAN citizen to build what you want where you want as long as its lawful...WHAT THE FUCK GROUNDS WOULD I HAVE TO STOP IT... Because i dont like you? AS AN ESQ YOU KNOW BETTER...ITS NOT THE AMERICAN WAY....We dont govern off of feelings....GOD DAMN WHAT THE HELL ARE WE TALKING ABOUT.
And quit saying Muslims muslims muslims...Dude there are millions of Muslims tho dont suscribe to that crazy batshit stuff...but We as Americans can be so tunnel visioned. Grow the fuck up.
And the imam thing. First of all you know how you like to gay up shit with extreme hyperbole and misleading wording to get a point accross ike a woman who argues something...the most vile shit someone can do in my opinion. So i have to totally read a non bias report on this. But as long as nothing illegal has occured WHAT LAWS STOP IT..
Again..because "Im not feelin them fools" is not a valid explaination in opposition to this..well legally it aint...i swear this is like talking to 6 year olds...
::) ::)
I provided clear evidence that has been reported everywhere that the Govt is paying for the Imama to promote this and is paying for mosques overseas and you ignore that because I posted it rather than adress the reality of what is going on. I go it.
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It means that this POFS is so used to wasting our money and living the life of a king on everyones' back that even when he gets booted in the elections, he will find a way to hold on to the life he is leading on our dime.
The new POTUS wouldn't be sworn in until around January 20th, 2013.
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::) ::)
I provided clear evidence that has been reported everywhere that the Govt is paying for the Imama to promote this and is paying for mosques overseas and you ignore that because I posted it rather than adress the reality of what is going on. I go it.
Amazing...another 3333 special. I just put Imam promote...and this is what i got
Feisal Abdul Rauf will visit Qatar, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates to promote religious tolerance and discuss Muslim life in America.
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http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-august-16-2010-emma-thompson
hahahahaha...
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Amazing...another 3333 special. I just put Imam promote...and this is what i got
Feisal Abdul Rauf will visit Qatar, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates to promote religious tolerance and discuss Muslim life in America.
And? the corner stone of all of this is the Cordoba Project. Why the hell should taxpayers be funding this guy? If he can raise $100,000,000 for this disgrace, surely he can raise his own funds to travel no? Why should i have to pay for a muslim imam to travel overseas to promote religion? you don't see an issue with that?
Again - if this were Bush sending Jerry Falwell to SA to promote Christian life in America - the left would have freaked out, and rightfully so.
Bro - your blindness on this is beyond bizarre.
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And? the corner stone of all of this is the Cordoba Project. Why the hell should taxpayers be funding this guy? If he can raise $100,000,000 for this disgrace, surely he can raise his own funds to travel no? Why should i have to pay for a muslim imam to travel overseas to promote religion? you don't see an issue with that?
Again - if this were Bush sending Jerry Falwell to SA to promote Christian life in America - the left would have freaked out, and rightfully so.
Bro - your blindness on this is beyond bizarre.
Promoting Christian Tolarance in Africa...I dont care.. do it.. IF IT DOSENT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION...yeah that paper that our country was founded on...then its up for debate...But whats not up for debate is the issue right now...what the fuck did you learn in lawschool..that the constitution can be circumvented because of feelings and popularity...jesus h christ...WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE TALKING ABOUT YOU
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Promoting Christian Tolarance in Africa...I dont care.. do it.. IF IT DOSENT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION...yeah that paper that our country was founded on...then its up for debate...But whats not up for debate is the issue right now...what the fuck did you learn in lawschool..that the constitution can be circumvented because of feelings and popularity...jesus h christ...WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE TALKING ABOUT YOU
::) ::)
Of course you don't care because you ar eselective in what you want to believe about the Con solely when it fits your agenda.
I already said they have a legal right to build this pending the disclosures on the financing etc. however, that does not make it a complete scumbag thing to do.
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The POTUS, Bloomberg, Cuomo, Nadler, Big Mal, Samson, Jag, 240, Blacken, etc.
I'm sure Benny and a few others love the idea as well.
Has OB said anything other than what the original article said? Because to my knowledge he has not directly supported it other than to say everyone has the right to build a church.
Also the posters... have they said they support it or are they saying they support freedom of religion?
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Has OB said anything other than what the original article said? Because to my knowledge he has not directly supported it other than to say everyone has the right to build a church.
Also the posters... have they said they support it or are they saying they support freedom of religion?
Who doesnt support freedom of religion? This has nothing to do with that considering there are already hundreds of mosques in NYC, there are no domestic muslims in the area seeking or needing this to practice their faith, there is not an unserved muslim population, the money for this is not coming from domestic parishoners seeking a mosque to pray at, and lastly, no one is trying to stop people from practicsing Islam.
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like i told you its a community center open to the public you can go swimming and play basketball or just hang out,sounds like fun ;D
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Who doesnt support freedom of religion? This has nothing to do with that considering there are already hundreds of mosques in NYC, there are no domestic muslims in the area seeking or needing this to practice their faith, there is not an unserved muslim population, the money for this is not coming from domestic parishoners seeking a mosque to pray at, and lastly, no one is trying to stop people from practicsing Islam.
Again, I am asking a simple question, who here has stated they support it? Show me where OB says he supports the building of the mosque. Don't divert, don't bring upi something else. The accusations seem to be that OB supports this, and those other posters do, please show me where they say they want a this mosque built.
?
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like i told you its a community center open to the public you can go swimming and play basketball or just hang out,sounds like fun ;D
Will women have to wear Burghinis?
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Again, I am asking a simple question, who here has stated they support it? Show me where OB says he supports the building of the mosque. Don't divert, don't bring upi something else. The accusations seem to be that OB supports this, and those other posters do, please show me where they say they want a this mosque built.
?
I don't think that anyone has been explicit in that other than Bloomberg TBH. However, the failure to qualify the statement with a "its their right, but the site is a shitty place" speaks volumes.
I agree with the Harry Reid statement, along with many others.
Sometimes silence acts as a tacit approval. This is why Obama came across as a total pos on this. He pissed off everyone. Not one person is debating their right to do this, the issue is that is it the right thing to do. Cowards like obama initially came out strong for this in the friday speech, but punted the next day saying he did not comment on the wisdom of it. Well waht does that mean?
He could have said on Friday night "I agree they have a right to do it, but it is a shitty place intended solely to provoke people and I hope they move it". That would have put this to bed, but no, he decided to piss everyone off and now we will have a nother divisive issue to scream about for months on end.
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like i told you its a community center open to the public you can go swimming and play basketball or just hang out,sounds like fun ;D
If so, and if I am ever in NYC (which I doubt I will be) I will shit in the pool..... ;D
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i don't know where your from but in these parts we use a toilet :D
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i don't know where your from but in these parts we use a toilet :D
then it would be ok by that standard..... 8)
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I don't think that anyone has been explicit in that other than Bloomberg TBH. However, the failure to qualify the statement with a "its their right, but the site is a shitty place" speaks volumes.
I agree with the Harry Reid statement, along with many others.
Sometimes silence acts as a tacit approval. This is why Obama came across as a total pos on this. He pissed off everyone. Not one person is debating their right to do this, the issue is that is it the right thing to do. Cowards like obama initially came out strong for this in the friday speech, but punted the next day saying he did not comment on the wisdom of it. Well waht does that mean?
He could have said on Friday night "I agree they have a right to do it, but it is a shitty place intended solely to provoke people and I hope they move it". That would have put this to bed, but no, he decided to piss everyone off and now we will have a nother divisive issue to scream about for months on end.
I agree with what you say here, OB is not known for his good PR and politics. Like i said before, he should fire his political advisers. However, i think its wholly inaccurate to say he supports the building of this mosque if in fact he hasn't said he did. (Even the NYT times inaccurately said he strongly supported it.) And that goes for the GB'ers who have been accused of the same thing. (If that's the case)
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Will women have to wear Burghinis?
thongs
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If so, and if I am ever in NYC (which I doubt I will be) I will shit in the pool..... ;D
You are not invited to our pool party.
thongs
You may attend my pool party if you bring friends.
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Obama undaunted by fallout from mosque remarks
By BEN FELLER (AP) – 1 hour ago
________________________ ________________________ ________
ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE — President Barack Obama isn't worried about the furor unleashed by his comments on a planned mosque near Ground Zero, a spokesman said Tuesday.
He's also not dismayed that the Senate's top Democrat, Majority Leader Harry Reid, now opposes the idea, deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton said.
"This is an issue people are going to come to with strongly held convictions," Burton told reporters aboard Air Force One, as Obama flew to an appearance in Seattle. "He's happy our thriving democracy is continuing to produce vigorous debate."
On Monday, Reid became the highest profile Democrat to call for the mosque to be built someplace else. Current plans are to locate it two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
On Friday, at a White House dinner marking the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, Obama declared Muslims "have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances."
A day later, however, Obama told reporters that wasn't an endorsement of the specifics of the mosque plan.
Burton told reporters that Obama "respects the right of anybody ... to disagree with his opinion on this."
As to Reid's view, Burton said the senator is a "fiercely independent individual," and that's one of his strengths as a leader of his fellow Democrats.
Reid is in a tough re-election fight against Republican challenger Sharron Angle, who's called the mosque plan "an affront" to the families of those who lost loved ones in the attack.
A number of Republicans have portrayed Obama as out of touch with Americans' feelings on the issue, and some Democratic strategists have said they wish he hadn't weighed in.
However, Burton said Obama didn't consider the politics of his remarks, and felt he had to speak out in defense of key constitutional values.
Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
________________________ ___________________
"This is an issue people are going to come to with strongly held convictions," Burton told reporters aboard Air Force One, as Obama flew to an appearance in Seattle. "He's happy our thriving democracy is continuing to produce vigorous debate."
In other words, Obama is fund raising, wasting money, not doing his job, and sending his flaks out to give him cover wehile he drinks beer, jerks off, and spouts his communist bs to whoever will listen.
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33,
do you think romney and palin should share the stage with a speaker who wants to outlaw the building of all mosques, anywhere in the USA?
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Yeah, this has nothing to do with WTC. ::) ::) ::)
________________________ ________________________
45–47 Park Place, -- HISTORY
During the September 11 attacks, the then-five-story building at 45–47 Park Place,, between West Broadway and Church Street, was severely damaged. The building is located two blocks (less than 600 feet (180 meters)) north of the former World Trade Center.
That morning, the terrorists hijacked United Airlines Flight 175 as part of their attack on the World Trade Center Twin Towers. They crashed the plane into the South Tower at 9:03 a.m, triggering the destruction of the tower hours later.. The plane penetrated through the tower, and part of the plane's landing gear and fuselage came out the north side of the tower and crashed through the roof of 45–47 Park Place, and through two of its floors. The plane parts destroyed three floor beams, and severely compromised the building's internal structure.
At the time, the building was leased to the Burlington Coat Factory.[7][28] Stephen Pomerantz owned the building, and his wife Kukiko Mitani, subsequently attempted to sell it for years, at one point asking for $18 million. Until its 2009 purchase, however, the building lay abandoned……..
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Obama undaunted by fallout from mosque remarks
By BEN FELLER (AP) – 1 hour ago
________________________ ________________________ ________
ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE — President Barack Obama isn't worried about the furor unleashed by his comments on a planned mosque near Ground Zero, a spokesman said Tuesday.
He's also not dismayed that the Senate's top Democrat, Majority Leader Harry Reid, now opposes the idea, deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton said.
"This is an issue people are going to come to with strongly held convictions," Burton told reporters aboard Air Force One, as Obama flew to an appearance in Seattle. "He's happy our thriving democracy is continuing to produce vigorous debate."
On Monday, Reid became the highest profile Democrat to call for the mosque to be built someplace else. Current plans are to locate it two blocks from the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
On Friday, at a White House dinner marking the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, Obama declared Muslims "have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances."
A day later, however, Obama told reporters that wasn't an endorsement of the specifics of the mosque plan.
Burton told reporters that Obama "respects the right of anybody ... to disagree with his opinion on this."
As to Reid's view, Burton said the senator is a "fiercely independent individual," and that's one of his strengths as a leader of his fellow Democrats.
Reid is in a tough re-election fight against Republican challenger Sharron Angle, who's called the mosque plan "an affront" to the families of those who lost loved ones in the attack.
A number of Republicans have portrayed Obama as out of touch with Americans' feelings on the issue, and some Democratic strategists have said they wish he hadn't weighed in.
However, Burton said Obama didn't consider the politics of his remarks, and felt he had to speak out in defense of key constitutional values.
Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
________________________ ___________________
"This is an issue people are going to come to with strongly held convictions," Burton told reporters aboard Air Force One, as Obama flew to an appearance in Seattle. "He's happy our thriving democracy is continuing to produce vigorous debate."
In other words, Obama is fund raising, wasting money, not doing his job, and sending his flaks out to give him cover wehile he drinks beer, jerks off, and spouts his communist bs to whoever will listen.
Youre the fucking comunist... you want to do away with the constitution based on your feelings...
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Youre the fucking comunist... you want to do away with the constitution based on your feelings...
I guess you have not read my 1,000,003 posts saying they have a legal right to do this? ::) ::) ::)
But should they is a whole other matter. I have the right to call you a N%^& and S$%^ but is it the right thing to do? If I do that, will you say - 3333 I'm glad you are exercising your 1st amnd rights? Or will you beat the piss out of me?
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I guess you have not read my 1,000,003 posts saying they have a legal right to do this? ::) ::) ::)
But should they is a whole other matter. I have the right to call you a N%^& and S$%^ but is it the right thing to do? If I do that, will you say - 3333 I'm glad you are exercising your 1st amnd rights? Or will you beat the piss out of me?
Really, can't he do both at the same time?
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Really, can't he do both at the same time?
He can try. But if Mal wants to come to NYC, more likely i will take him for a beer and go to a Yankees game, or the shooting range. Mal and I may disagree on most issues, but I like him and he seems like a decent guy all around.
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He can try. But if Mal wants to come to NYC, more likely i will take him for a beer and go to a Yankees game, or the shooting range. Mal and I may disagree on most issues, but I like him and he seems like a decent guy all around.
My best friend is a neo con right winged am 640 guy. we talk like this all the time. i dont really mean all the stuff...just havin fun. but yeah my best friend from 1995 cant be more different politically. but in the area of drinking and biches...we are the same
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My best friend is a neo con right winged am 640 guy. we talk like this all the time. i dont really mean all the stuff...just havin fun. but yeah my best friend from 1995 cant be more different politically. but in the area of drinking and biches...we are the same
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wait, you said he's a neocon... but you also said he's into females?
Are you sure he's a neocon?
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My best friend is a neo con right winged am 640 guy. we talk like this all the time. i dont really mean all the stuff...just havin fun. but yeah my best friend from 1995 cant be more different politically. but in the area of drinking and biches...we are the same
That's why I like the Getbig forum most, the posters are cool and its not personal, and even when it is, people still laugh it off. If you go to FR, DU, or most other sites, its a much different tone of stuff.
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wait, you said he's a neocon... but you also said he's into females?
Are you sure he's a neocon?
well we both like the hunnies but before he got married last sat...this guy would settle for a fat chick in a heart beat.
but we differ on
immigration
obama care
gm bail out
and income tax as a whole
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well we both like the hunnies but before he got married last sat...this guy would settle for a fat chick in a heart beat.
but we differ on
immigration
obama care
gm bail out
and income tax as a whole
"Any port in a storm"
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Sounded like a real jack ass in the press conference on this issue.
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Did anyone listen to the Press Conf today?
Imam Obama really is a disgusting, revolting, and traitor unworthy of the office.
Anyone who still supports this Admn really needs to go F%^& themselves.
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I like how this fucking snake is saying it's not GZ proper when a piece of the landing gear fell through the building, making it GZ proper. ::)