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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Sherief Shalaby on October 02, 2010, 11:00:27 PM
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neither... just people who can't grasp how contests are judged.
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neither... just people who can't grasp how contests are judged.
I'm willing to bet that if asked, Dorian , Haney, and Ronnie (hell, even Arnold) would not say Jay won that night.
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To knock out the champ, you gotta be at least 20 % better. Maybe the gap was still too close this year.
But like I said before, if Jay had ended up in 4th, noone would have complained either.
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To knock out the champ, you gotta be at least 20 % better. Maybe the gap was still too close this year.
But like I said before, if Jay had ended up in 4th, noone would have complained either.
The champ has no back, the bodypart that all other Mr. O's had over everybody...Jay, has only size. He is a substandard Mr. O, he marginalizes the title.
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The champ has no back, the bodypart that all other Mr. O's had over everybody...Jay, has only size. He is a substandard Mr. O, he marginalizes the title.
Totally agree (waiting for UnSung meltdown ;D)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=350518.0;attach=385346;image)
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I'm willing to bet that if asked, Dorian , Haney, and Ronnie (hell, even Arnold) would not say Jay won that night.
All those guys were lucky on one or more occassions to , as said it takes quiet a bit more to beat the reigning champ than just a tad bit better.Personaly I think they all look like utter crap , guys walking around at 3 % BF yet still look like bloated dinosaurs with bigger guts than a 9 month pregnant woman its a disgrace.
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I thought this was going to be a thread about the Supreme Court.
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they should have marked jay down for his clearly smaller righ leg.. it killed the symmetry of his lower body.. also phil was clearly better in the 2 back poses, the side tricep, and the FDB.. IMO jay was better only in the side chest and it was by a small margin.. both are not impressive in the abs/thigh pose..
phil too has his weak points but i believe overall deserved to win.. also dont know how branch beat dex.!!!.. if dex was a guy with more charisma he would have easily taken 2nd if not the 1st place!!..
anyway it was not as bad as 2007!!..
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jay deserved to win only in 2006 and last year.. may be 2001 too if we ignored the illegal drugs he used :-X
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jay deserved to win only in 2006 and last year.. may be 2001 too if we ignored the illegal drugs he used :-X
If you want to get technical Ronnie wore multi-colored trunks which is ' illegal ' according to the IFBB so he should have lost then too just based on that
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jay deserved to win only in 2006 and last year.. may be 2001 too if we ignored the illegal drugs he used :-X
lol are any of the drugs legal ?
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If you want to get technical Ronnie wore multi-colored trunks which is ' illegal ' according to the IFBB so he should have lost then too just based on that
are you trying to say that levrone should have won and nasser should have been in the 7th place?..
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are you trying to say that levrone should have won and nasser should have been in the 7th place?..
I'm not saying anything , I'm saying if you want to get technical then why stop at Jay?
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lol are any of the drugs legal ?
sure since the death of andreas munzer in 1996.. but i am not sure about today's rules!!.. but what i am sure of is that most of the top guys now are not as dry as the top guys of the 90s!!..
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I'm not saying anything , I'm saying if you want to get technical then why stop at Jay?
yes i know you are not saying anything you are just repeating things you like as a parrot..
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sure since the death of andreas munzer in 1996.. but i am not sure about today's rules!!.. but what i am sure of is that most of the top guys now are not as dry as the top guys of the 90s!!..
so you think this is because why ?
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yes i know you are not saying anything you are just repeating things you like as a parrot..
hahahahaha says the Team Nasser member
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sure since the death of andreas munzer in 1996.. but i am not sure about today's rules!!.. but what i am sure of is that most of the top guys now are not as dry as the top guys of the 90s!!..
Didn't stop Nasser in 96 ;D
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hahahahaha says the Team Nasser member
nasser agrees with me :D
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How about Earl Warren in '54?
Eisenhower liked his calves, and Warren had really brought his biceps up that year, so it was only natural that he get appointed to the Supreme Court (of muscles).
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nasser agrees with me :D
of course he does he's just as delusional as you , he still thinks he placed in 96 :-\
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**exhales** ::) ::)
for every selective picture you can produce of a specific pose (from the final, where EVERYONE agreed jay improved, and phil diminished)
i can produce the same photo from the finals or prejudging where jay was winning easily winning the shot
some of you really have much to learn about how bodybuildig is judged........believe it or not, its not judged on whose physique is "prettier" or whose physique you would rather have
I'm willing to bet that if asked, Dorian , Haney, and Ronnie (hell, even Arnold) would not say Jay won that night.
dorians analysis was that jay was the clear winner
i dont know what haney would have said, but it would probably be phil
Ronnie ALWAYS picks other black competitors to win (whether they deserved it or not) he has always been racist in that regard
arnold could give a flying fuck about bodybuilding, his only association with the sport is when he sells his name-rights to jim lorimer once a year in exchange for a few million dollars...........he couldnt even be bothered to make an appearance in what is almost CERTAINLY joe weiders last olympia.......even though it would only require a 15 minute ride in one of his leer jets
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of course he does he's just as delusional as you , he still thinks he placed in 96 :-\
haha, so true
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Looks to me like they picked the 'right' Mr Olympia: he's just plain bigger than Phil. Not by much but enough to win the O.
Sure, Phil is better all around and I'd consider him to be a more complete Mr O, but...have y'all been not paying attention the last ten years? The Mr O is about ripped size; if you have size and come in ripped, you win.
That leg atrophy is kinda strange though. Next year will be interesting...but not so interesting that the only thing to look forward to is the O. I was hoping Kai woulda been more of a threat this year. But I do agree that Martinez is done. I hope I'm wrong, but he's a non player when the best are on their game.
And Wolf...possibly the most overrated 'comeback' I've ever seen. He just looks a mess.
That is all.
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jays right/left disparity was much more profound in 2008........each of the last two years, he has brought his right side more and more in line with his left
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Looks to me like they picked the 'right' Mr Olympia: he's just plain bigger than Phil. Not by much but enough to win the O.
Sure, Phil is better all around and I'd consider him to be a more complete Mr O, but...have y'all been not paying attention the last ten years? The Mr O is about ripped size; if you have size and come in ripped, you win.
I agree with most of this. Jay has more of a wow factor and has more "pop" when he poses. Sure Phil may have a more appealing look to most people but when comparing him to Jay pose for pose, he doesn't stand out or dominate in the least. The fact of the matter is, they were very close and the difference was Phil was more pleasing while Jay was more freaky. You can't beat the reigning in shape Mr. O without a physique that really stands out and dominates clearly.
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Earl Warren really mixed things up.
Am I right, people?
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According to people at the show, Jays quads and hamstrings really crushed Phil's. This was from people seeing it live in vegas.
I think the fact that Jay has a size advantage also effects the judges. You cant just discount 265lbs of mass on Jays extra wide frame.
Having said that, I feel Jay was better in 2009.
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I don,t think it was ether bad judging or politics Sherief, Jays condition was close to his 2009 showing just not quiet as crisp as the year before, as the Defending Champion as History clearly shows you have to be "off" by ALOT to sway the judges initial view of you @ the Pre-Judging where as we all know is the "nuts and bolts" of the contest to a Degree, ala Cutler in 2008 where he was REALLY off, Phil has outstanding body-parts and to the eye alot more pleasing as in the flow of the Physique etc than jay, and if Jay had come in 2-3% heavier/holding more water etc, then i think its conceivable Phil would of won the 2010 O, unfortunately for Phil jay was CONDITION WISE still good enough on the day and thats how the Judges saw it.
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mr o can not be out muscled when condition is equal...
if jay was big but smoother than, well thats dif but big slice and diced wins every time....
phils stand out arms. mainly tris look great tho and that crab most musclr ala kev lev looks good,,, sometimes phil looks to have bigger arms than jay,,, otherwise and even with still jay wins.
its gona be cool to see how much further phil can produce... hes still young to the sport.
that width of his tris is awesome and by those compare pics he does hold his own, maybe a lil more against jay but overall jay still wins.
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are you trying to say that levrone should have won and nasser should have been in the 7th place?..
actually K-Lo should have been disqualified as well
technically speaking, Shawn Ray was the 2001 Mr. Olympia
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=58884.0
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Jay has a bazillion pounds of muscle on Phil. Superior taper, aesthetics and round muscle bellies only take you so far. The Mr.Olympia is about finding the World's not only most perfectly developed man but also the most developed, period, and Jay's muscle development is far superior to Phil Heath's. Also, Heath is far from perfect with his long waist, narrow clavicles and shitty calves.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Earl Warren really mixed things up.
Am I right, people?
no doubt about it
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Jay has a bazillion pounds of muscle on Phil. Superior taper, aesthetics and round muscle bellies only take you so far. The Mr.Olympia is about finding the World's not only most perfectly developed man but also the most developed, period, and Jay's muscle development is far superior to Phil Heath's. Also, Heath is far more perfect with his long waist, narrow clavicles and shitty calves.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
yeah good post....
right on about the round bellies too...
phil does have those round muscle bellies,,, gives that cool big cartoon look....
jay has more angled m bellies,,, gives a totally dif look.
all things equal, size / conditioning... the angled bellies give a more rugged look than the rounder bellies
it took me many years to really respect jays build,,, those bloated offseason pics during the ronnie jay showdowns of yesteryears didnt help either... since 2001 and each passing olympia i get more respect and admire jays build. that classic pic from last year was awesome, he looked/looks like he trains like ronnie,,, but doesnt lol.
size isnt an indicator of strength tho but if it was jay would look the strongest out of that 2010 line up
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you do know that in some of those pics, jay is taller than phil, and in others, phil is taller than jay...
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You would think if the pros had a rep that he would be watching the judges very carefully. He would not be behind the microphone as MC! What a self-serving stooge this character is. Give him a monkey suit and watch him perform.
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If you want to get technical Ronnie wore multi-colored trunks which is ' illegal ' according to the IFBB so he should have lost then too just based on that
Kinda like how Madonna Grimes was marked down or either disqualified due to her wearing a "thong". Something about the rules, stating that there shouldn't be 1/3 of the glutes showing....yet bbers can hike up the back of their trunks to show shredded glutes...I'd rather see women's asses than men's
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You would think if the pros had a rep that he would be watching the judges very carefully. He would not be behind the microphone as MC! What a self-serving stooge this character is. Give him a monkey suit and watch him perform.
im removing myself from my typical 'vince is a pedo' shtick and am asking you honestly.........
do you know how much of a small, bitter and pathetic old loser you sound like.......droning on in post after post that NO READS........wheres your self respect??
at leat when old men ramble about politics or wayward youth, or the old time.........their heart is in the right place........you a "bodybuilding conspiracy theoroist".....how fuckign inconsequential.
and as athletes rep what would bob do during a show??? INTERRUPT THE JUDGING PANEL? FIRE JUDGES ON THE SPOT?? ARGUE LOUDLY WITH THE JUDGES TO REARRANGE THE CALLOUT DESCISIONS?? RUN BACK AND FORTH FROM STAGE TO STANDS REPORTING ATHLETES GREVIENCES IN REAL TIME??
...............MAYBE AFTER A CONTROVERSIAL WINNER IS ANNOUNCED, BOB CAN START THE SHOW OVER
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Your a lonely old bitter man who is out of touch with reality........a living, breathing cautionary tale
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What a dope. Clearly Bob can't do his job if he is occupied as MC. Good for Bob but that sucks for the pro athletes rep. He should be mingling with the athletes and making sure everything is okay. It is a travesty the way he does whatever he likes and no one gives a stuff. So much for bodybuilding as a sport. He most definitley should not be on this forum arguing with everyone.
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What a dope. Clearly Bob can't do his job if he is occupied as MC. Good for Bob but that sucks for the pro athletes rep. He should be mingling with the athletes and making sure everything is okay. It is a travesty the way he does whatever he likes and no one gives a stuff. So much for bodybuilding as a sport. He most definitley should not be on this forum arguing with everyone.
it not like bob, or anyone, is going to make broad sweeping changes to the "sport".......
there is an entrenched hierarchy that runs the IFBB/NPC........they have a complete monopoly.......all dissent has been met with crushing defeat...
what does this mean?, the brass is going to do what the brass wants to do.............bobs position is really kinda window dressing (no offense to bob)
he might be able to effect small changes like how a posing routine is scored, but anything tangible that might actually improve the bodybuilders health in the longterm, or any situation that might put people over profit will be wholly ignored
they are gonna do what they are gonna do anyway......why shouldnt bob get a sweet job out of it, i would love to have bobs job.........your just bitter cause you feel your name should be recognized in the industry, ...........and it is not
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Change? Bob is part of the organization so why would he want to change it? The question is, how come results suck year after year?
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it not like bob, or anyone, is going to make broad sweeping changes to the "sport".......
there is an entrenched hierarchy that runs the IFBB/NPC........they have a complete monopoly.......all dissent has been met with crushing defeat...
what does this mean?, the brass is going to do what the brass wants to do.............bobs position is really kinda window dressing (no offense to bob)
he might be able to effect small changes like how a posing routine is scored, but anything tangible that might actually improve the bodybuilders health in the longterm, or any situation that might put people over profit will be wholly ignored
they are gonna do what they are gonna do anyway......why shouldnt bob get a sweet job out of it, i would love to have bobs job.........your just bitter cause you feel your name should be recognized in the industry, ...........and it is not
SOmething may happen when Joe dies, or when the old guard die off, or it might get worse...Joe maybe is the reason why it hasn't gotten worse.
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SOmething may happen when Joe dies, or when the old guard die off, or it might get worse...Joe maybe is the reason why it hasn't gotten worse.
for all we are concerned, joe is dead.......he has not had direct involvement for years
nothing is goin gto change anytime soon
at the end of the day bodybuilding is a lot less a sport, and a lot more a pagent........and like a pagent, there is no objective way to choose a clear winner
how do you judge beauty? how you judge who has the most desirable body? its all completely subjective
if you judged it the way vince, or some people on here want it to be judged.....i suppose you can take measurements of people joints, waist, and muscle bellies, and work out some kind of a formula..........but that way all black guy will place first and it wont be very interesting for the fans
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Looks to me like they picked the 'right' Mr Olympia: he's just plain bigger than Phil. Not by much but enough to win the O.
Sure, Phil is better all around and I'd consider him to be a more complete Mr O, but...have y'all been not paying attention the last ten years? The Mr O is about ripped size; if you have size and come in ripped, you win.
That leg atrophy is kinda strange though. Next year will be interesting...but not so interesting that the only thing to look forward to is the O. I was hoping Kai woulda been more of a threat this year. But I do agree that Martinez is done. I hope I'm wrong, but he's a non player when the best are on their game.
And Wolf...possibly the most overrated 'comeback' I've ever seen. He just looks a mess.
That is all.
i agree wold didnt deserve his place.. looked very bad from the rear and the rest of him was not anything close to his best!!..
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According to people at the show, Jays quads and hamstrings really crushed Phil's. This was from people seeing it live in vegas.
I think the fact that Jay has a size advantage also effects the judges. You cant just discount 265lbs of mass on Jays extra wide frame.
Having said that, I feel Jay was better in 2009.
jay's left quad is owsome,... may be the best in the sport so in all the front shots it makes his right "previosuly injured" quad look weak.. imo this should take some points from him..
phil's quads are ok but need some size to go with his huge arms and shoulders..
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I don,t think it was ether bad judging or politics Sherief, Jays condition was close to his 2009 showing just not quiet as crisp as the year before, as the Defending Champion as History clearly shows you have to be "off" by ALOT to sway the judges initial view of you @ the Pre-Judging where as we all know is the "nuts and bolts" of the contest to a Degree, ala Cutler in 2008 where he was REALLY off, Phil has outstanding body-parts and to the eye alot more pleasing as in the flow of the Physique etc than jay, and if Jay had come in 2-3% heavier/holding more water etc, then i think its conceivable Phil would of won the 2010 O, unfortunately for Phil jay was CONDITION WISE still good enough on the day and thats how the Judges saw it.
i agree with you jonny but this didnt happen in 2007 when jay the defending champion was clearly off and martinez and dex were on but still they gave it to him!!..
2010 was close but not because jay was that great but because all his top competitors have their clear flaws too!!..
still i see phil was better but again it was close and not as bad as when jay beat martinez in 2007!!..
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actually K-Lo should have been disqualified as well
technically speaking, Shawn Ray was the 2001 Mr. Olympia
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=58884.0
this makes nasser in the top 6!! :P
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Jay has a bazillion pounds of muscle on Phil. Superior taper, aesthetics and round muscle bellies only take you so far. The Mr.Olympia is about finding the World's not only most perfectly developed man but also the most developed, period, and Jay's muscle development is far superior to Phil Heath's. Also, Heath is far from perfect with his long waist, narrow clavicles and shitty calves.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
so why didnt marcus win any olympia?!..
phil calves are good!!.. not great but still not bad and not as bad as the imbalance of jay's quads..
also phil is clearly better in the 2 rear poses.. jay's rls is always kinda soft even at his best..
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The champ has no back, the bodypart that all other Mr. O's had over everybody...Jay, has only size. He is a substandard Mr. O, he marginalizes the title.
thats funny jays back is better than phils
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thats funny jays back is better than phils
Oh, really, care to look at the pics again, Jay only has width and lack detail, I guess wrinkles in the back to you means "better" ::)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=350552.0;attach=385412)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=350552.0;attach=385417)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=350552.0;attach=385422)
So, please tell me where Jay is better in the back? It ain't there....
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**exhales** ::) ::)
for every selective picture you can produce of a specific pose (from the final, where EVERYONE agreed jay improved, and phil diminished)
i can produce the same photo from the finals or prejudging where jay was winning easily winning the shot
some of you really have much to learn about how bodybuildig is judged........believe it or not, its not judged on whose physique is "prettier" or whose physique you would rather have
dorians analysis was that jay was the clear winner
i dont know what haney would have said, but it would probably be phil
Ronnie ALWAYS picks other black competitors to win (whether they deserved it or not) he has always been racist in that regard
arnold could give a flying fuck about bodybuilding, his only association with the sport is when he sells his name-rights to jim lorimer once a year in exchange for a few million dollars...........he couldnt even be bothered to make an appearance in what is almost CERTAINLY joe weiders last olympia.......even though it would only require a 15 minute ride in one of his leer jets
all these shots are from the finals idiot!!..
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Most of those pics angles favor phil. JAY CRUSHED HIM. watch the webcast again
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Most of those pics angles favor phil. JAY CRUSHED HIM. watch the webcast again
I watched it, and say that Jay had a wider back, Jay has less detail. When Dorian "crushed" Flex (even thoug some had Flex winning the show), Dorian had a equally great back, and one could pick apart and give reason for Dorian's win, one cannot with Jay, other than he was bigger...Jason Huh has a better back than Jay.
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Most of those pics angles favor phil. JAY CRUSHED HIM. watch the webcast again
i cut these shots from the top 6 final comparisons and the cam was in front of them all,.. no angles favoring anyone..
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i agree with you jonny but this didnt happen in 2007 when jay the defending champion was clearly off and martinez and dex were on but still they gave it to him!!..
2010 was close but not because jay was that great but because all his top competitors have their clear flaws too!!..
still i see phil was better but again it was close and not as bad as when jay beat martinez in 2007!!..
Yes 2007 is a Different story, Politics May or may not have played a part to what degree and whatever reason is speculation @ best, Jay was off no doubt however if memory recalls the Obvious synthol in Victors calves (from the rear mandatory's) didn't help his cause even though he was in Fantastic shape
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.Personaly I think they all look like utter crap , guys walking around at 3 % BF yet still look like bloated dinosaurs with bigger guts than a 9 month pregnant woman its a disgrace.
QFT
it's becoming more and more pathetic if it's humanly possible
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nasser agrees with me :D
yup.. looked like Nasser has upgraded from living in the basement to garage..
THIS IS AWESOME
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dorians analysis was that jay was the clear winner
What was Dorian's reasoning for that? That Jay had too much size for Phil to handle? That is sort of the reason why I was leaning towards Jay as well, mainly because Phil does not quite have the mass necessary to handle Jay, even though Phil had superior conditioning. And on that note, Jay wasn't exactly off this year conditioning-wise.
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all these shots are from the finals idiot!!..
i know they are you fucking dirty monkey...........
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jay won... it's a fact.. live with it...
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Oh, really, care to look at the pics again, Jay only has width and lack detail, I guess wrinkles in the back to you means "better" ::)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=350552.0;attach=385412)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=350552.0;attach=385417)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=350552.0;attach=385422)
So, please tell me where Jay is better in the back? It ain't there....
ok i guess we have to explain bodybuilding to the 160lb knee grow again,
jays back is so much wider than phils, his legs are harder from front to back, his shoulders and chest are so much larger, to such a large extent, that wrinkles mean absolute little to the overall process of judging a physique.
not only is jay bigger, he is in better condition.
now a homework assignment for you parker,
look at the rear lat spread shots again, then i want you to look at the visible area inside the arms, i want you to notice the from where the hand is on the waist and follow the the gap all the way up from the lat to the arm . this is just a minor tool to use for you to maybe understand the complexity of what your not comprehending about how bodybuilding works.
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Jay has a bazillion pounds of muscle on Phil. Superior taper, aesthetics and round muscle bellies only take you so far. The Mr.Olympia is about finding the World's not only most perfectly developed man but also the most developed, period, and Jay's muscle development is far superior to Phil Heath's. Also, Heath is far from perfect with his long waist, narrow clavicles and shitty calves.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
are you saying that phil is another shawn ray? :o
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i cut these shots from the top 6 final comparisons and the cam was in front of them all,.. no angles favoring anyone..
the angle is slightly from the right, open your eyes
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the angle is slightly from the right, open your eyes
the angle is favorig phil
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Pics are just pics. This has been discussed a million times. See the endless Nasser vs Dorian threads. Everybody knows pics are ne thing, videos another and reality is once again different and you really have to be there (or at least take into considerations what people who are there have to say). Pics generally favor the smaller Bbers it seems. Phil could have won and that's it, could have. Jay still had enough to beat him and that's not even close to 2007.
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parker, did you do your homework assignment?