Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Female Info Boards => Figure, Bikini and Fitness Info and Discussions => Topic started by: dknole on October 19, 2010, 10:37:15 AM
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At the NPC Nationals in Atlanta, the rumor was said to be true, that in 2 years Pro BB for women will be elimintaed or downsized even more to allow more room for the money generating Bikini contests to compliment the Figure and Fitness. Pro female BB will be known as Female Physique competitions and those who are active in Figure will have some rule changes for how they pose.
Bob, anything that you are able to add to this at this time?
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and no one sees a problem with one guy controlling and using a non-profit like the npc as his own personal candy store vs a REAL committee.
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Is this bodybuilding's way of being politically correct? The NPC & IFBB are selling out for mainstream appeal. We could see a rival federation that puts the focus back on bodybuilding.
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Is this bodybuilding's way of being politically correct? The NPC & IFBB are selling out for mainstream appeal. We could see a rival federation that puts the focus back on bodybuilding.
Nah, its not for mainstream appeal, its to get more competitors, which equals more cash in their pocket.
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You're a little off on the title and on why its being done...here are some facts
Yes, there is a new division that will be put in place, it's called "WOMENS PHYSIQUE DIVISION"
It will not replacing WBB, it's a whole different division
They will not wear heels
WBB has phased itself out with numbers dwindling to the point that we can no longer justify it
This new division has NOTHING to do with any of the others in terms of any rule changes as you mentioned, there will be no changes to Figure, bikini.
The WPD will run much like a FBB competition except for a few things...the girls will do quarter turns, mandatories, routine...difference will be the poses will be restructured to be more feminine and the physiques will resemble more of the physiques of WBB in the early to mid 80's...
Initially, there will be only one class...as numbers grow, so will the class sizes/ structure
Figure girls that are too hard for figure would fit in , as would the same for Fitness...FBB would have to scale it WAY down to even have a chance of fitting into the criteria. This will not resemble FBB by any stretch as to what it is today.
Hope this clarifies any questions that may come up....
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Is this bodybuilding's way of being politically correct? The NPC & IFBB are selling out for mainstream appeal. We could see a rival federation that puts the focus back on bodybuilding.
LOL
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You're a little off on the title and on why its being done...here are some facts
Yes, there is a new division that will be put in place, it's called "WOMENS PHYSIQUE DIVISION"
It will not replacing WBB, it's a whole different division
They will not wear heels
WBB has phased itself out with numbers dwindling to the point that we can no longer justify it
This new division has NOTHING to do with any of the others in terms of any rule changes as you mentioned, there will be no changes to Figure, bikini.
The WPD will run much like a FBB competition except for a few things...the girls will do quarter turns, mandatories, routine...difference will be the poses will be restructured to be more feminine and the physiques will resemble more of the physiques of WBB in the early to mid 80's...
Initially, there will be only one class...as numbers grow, so will the class sizes/ structure
Figure girls that are too hard for figure would fit in , as would the same for Fitness...FBB would have to scale it WAY down to even have a chance of fitting into the criteria. This will not resemble FBB by any stretch as to what it is today.
Hope this clarifies any questions that may come up....
Many thanks for the clear (and factual) explanation.
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At the NPC Nationals in Atlanta, the rumor was said to be true, that in 2 years Pro BB for women will be elimintaed or downsized even more to allow more room for the money generating Bikini contests to compliment the Figure and Fitness. Pro female BB will be known as Female Physique competitions and those who are active in Figure will have some rule changes for how they pose. Bob, anything that you are able to add to this at this time?
Here is the official word from talking with other judges I have known for many years.
1. The NPC will add a new male division called male physique. They will wear board short style bathing suits and the legs won't be judged much. The ideal look will be a beach body , male fitness model type. they may also add a female physique deal similar to what the men will do.
2. The number one entrants in bikini and figur6e (new males and current female ) will grow with the new class. This will make the NPC over 80% figure, bikini and a low % bodybuilding.
3. They have no plans to drop female bodybuilding. They want more entrants in any divsion which =more $$
The NPC is now a figure and bikini bathing suit organization that includes bodybuilding. I am done at this point with the NPC and refuse to judge dudes in board shorts.
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You're a little off on the title and on why its being done...here are some facts
Yes, there is a new division that will be put in place, it's called "WOMENS PHYSIQUE DIVISION"
It will not replacing WBB, it's a whole different division
They will not wear heels
WBB has phased itself out with numbers dwindling to the point that we can no longer justify it
This new division has NOTHING to do with any of the others in terms of any rule changes as you mentioned, there will be no changes to Figure, bikini.
The WPD will run much like a FBB competition except for a few things...the girls will do quarter turns, mandatories, routine...difference will be the poses will be restructured to be more feminine and the physiques will resemble more of the physiques of WBB in the early to mid 80's...
Initially, there will be only one class...as numbers grow, so will the class sizes/ structure
Figure girls that are too hard for figure would fit in , as would the same for Fitness...FBB would have to scale it WAY down to even have a chance of fitting into the criteria. This will not resemble FBB by any stretch as to what it is today.
Hope this clarifies any questions that may come up....
Does that mean there's no more Ms. Olympia?
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Bob, like me you know that the NPC started becuase the AAU physique , that ran the state and Mr America titles had other interests like wt lifting When I first joined the NPC, 30 yrs ago, it was a bodybuilding organization had its' only focus on BODYBUILING. This appealed to me , you and many others who love the sport.
The NPC has now become a figure, bathing suit organization that includes bodybuilding. The numbers and time / focus on stage show it is at least 2/3 figure/bikini and only 1/3 bodybuilding.
With the new classes it will be well over 80% NON bodybuilding. I am done at this point, sorry, but I refuse to judge dudes in board shorts.
You're a little off on the title and on why its being done...here are some facts
Yes, there is a new division that will be put in place, it's called "WOMENS PHYSIQUE DIVISION"
It will not replacing WBB, it's a whole different division
They will not wear heels
WBB has phased itself out with numbers dwindling to the point that we can no longer justify it
This new division has NOTHING to do with any of the others in terms of any rule changes as you mentioned, there will be no changes to Figure, bikini.
The WPD will run much like a FBB competition except for a few things...the girls will do quarter turns, mandatories, routine...difference will be the poses will be restructured to be more feminine and the physiques will resemble more of the physiques of WBB in the early to mid 80's...
Initially, there will be only one class...as numbers grow, so will the class sizes/ structure
Figure girls that are too hard for figure would fit in , as would the same for Fitness...FBB would have to scale it WAY down to even have a chance of fitting into the criteria. This will not resemble FBB by any stretch as to what it is today.
Hope this clarifies any questions that may come up....
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It also seems the fitness shows are dwindling. Could it be that good-looking girls who can launch themselves into orbit and twist themselves in knots are dominating over gorgeous girls with two left feet?
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I am done at this point, sorry, but I refuse to judge dudes in board shorts.
But you had no problem with dudes in speedos? :-\
Good to see ya in ATL howie, which woman was that with you? I can't keep track of your pimping ways.
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But you had no problem with dudes in speedos? :-\ Good to see ya in ATL howie, which woman was that with you? I can't keep track of your pimping ways.
That was a guys wife I know who was in the super Hvy wt. I want to see bodybuilding at a bodybuilding contest.
If I buy a ticket for an NHL hockey game I don't want to see 3 hrs of Disney On Ice before they drop the puck. ;)
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Does that mean there's no more Ms. Olympia?
No, there will always be the Olympia title...it just may have a different look in the future
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Here is the official word from talking with other judges I have known for many years.
1. The NPC will add a new male division called male physique. They will wear board short style bathing suits and the legs won't be judged much. The ideal look will be a beach body , male fitness model type. they may also add a female physique deal similar to what the men will do. 2. The number oe entrants in bikini and figure ( new males and current female ) will grow with the new class. This will make the NPC over 80% figure, bikini and a low % bodybuilding.
3. They have no plans to drop female bodybuilding. They want more entrants in any divsion which =more $$
The NPC s now a figure and bikini bathing suit organization that includes bodybuilding. I am done at this point with the NPC and refuse to judge dudes in board shorts.
I just gave you the official word, I'm the one who wrote it up. I'm posting on the subject as it's been brought up, as to make sure the correct info is getting out to the public.... rules and regs will be out shortly
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so in the future erin stern becomes ms olympia because she definitely isnt figure with hips straight up and down.
(http://www.figurerx.com/Photos/Forums/ErinStern5a.jpg)
ms olympia
ms figure
(http://anngruber.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cherylbrown.jpg)
cheryl brown is what figure should be
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so in the future erin stern becomes ms olympia because she definitely isnt figure with hips straight up and down.
(http://www.figurerx.com/Photos/Forums/ErinStern5a.jpg)
ms olympia
ms figure
(http://anngruber.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cherylbrown.jpg)
cheryl brown is what figure should be
She IS ms. Olympia now...
Cheryl Brown would be an excellent girl to compete in the new WPD...
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I just gave you the official word, I;m the one who wrote it up. I'm posting on the subject as it's been brought up, as to make sure the crrect info is getting out to the public....rules and regs will be out shortly
Oh, just to clarify:
Women's bodybuilding will continue to exist in addition to the new WPD?
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Oh, just to clarify: Women's bodybuilding will continue to exist in addition to the new WPD?
not necessarily... as the numbers of FBB continue to decline, the plug will have to be pulled at some point. Womens BB has become obsolete...
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She IS ms. Olympia now...
Cheryl Brown would be an excellent girl to compete in the new WPD...
i know she is figure O but she should be the standard for bbing O. so...you are saying the judges just worry about shoulders in figure?
Womens BBing - Gone or reduced to nothing
WPD - New Womens BBing Division
Figure
Fitness
Bikini
sorry, erin fits in the WPD divison. no way she has a FIGURE anything near cheryl brown. it's still ALL messed up! genetically...erin is built like a tomboy vs cheryl.
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i know she is figure O but she should be the standard for bbing O. so...you are saying the judges just worry about shoulders in figure?
Womens BBing - Gone or reduced to nothing
WPD - New Womens BBing Division
Figure
Fitness
Bikini
sorry, erin fits in the WPD divison. no way she has a FIGURE anything near cheryl brown. it's still ALL messed up! genetically...erin is built like a tomboy vs cheryl.
I hear what you're saying,and my own personal preference is for more curves in the figure division...
I thionk you're confused....WPD will be girls who are slightly MORE muscular than Figure...it's for girls who like to train and lift weights, but look feminine. Cheryl is WAY more muscular than the average figure girl.
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I hear what you're saying,and my own personal preference is for more curves in the figure division...
I thionk you're confused....WPD will be girls who are slightly MORE muscular than Figure...it's for girls who like to train and lift weights, but look feminine. Cheryl is WAY more muscular than the average figure girl.
so...monica brant several yrs ago would have been a good fit for WPD? i guess we'll just see.
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its so damn complicated to be a women who lifts weights ::)
all in the name of revenue?
how about it was left at BODYBUILDING as in women who is BODYBUILDER, fitness for the ex-gymnasts/performers who remain gym rats and figure for the ones who dislike developing androgynous features but good muscle shape...
what does the Women's physique division competitor identify with? is she a bodybuilder?
There needs to always be a place for the women who want maximum muscle with low bodyfat aka bodybuilding...
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not necessarily...as the numbers of FBB continue to decline, the plug will have to be pulled at some point. Womens BB has become obsolete...
Ok, understood. It remains for now, but only until the participant numbers can no longer support it. Fair enough.
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not necessarily...as the numbers of FBB continue to decline, the plug will have to be pulled at some point. Womens BB has become obsolete...
How quickly will women's BB become obsolete? Will there be a Ms. Olympia bodybuilding competition in 2011? Taking the look back to the early '80s is probably a good idea, but why do you need 4 classes for women that will look essentially the same?
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How quickly will women's BB become obsolete? Will there be a Ms. Olympia bodybuilding competition in 2011? Taking the look back to the early '80s is probably a good idea, but why do you need 4 classes for women that will look essentially the same?
They wont, as having a bookend on each side of figure will help with the judges having a consistant look. Bikini already looks much different than figure, fitness is slightly more muscular, and womens physique will be somewhere between figure and FBB, certainly closer to figure.
The public (not mainstream, but rather our own industry paying customers) have dictated loud and clear what they're willing to support and what they're not.
Yes, there will be the Ms. Olympia as we know it in 2011
This would be an example of what they should be looking for in the WPD...
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They wont, as having a bookend on each side of figure will help with the judges having a consistant look. Bikini already looks much different than figure, fitness is slightly more muscular, and womens physique will be somewhere between figure and FBB, certainly closer to figure.
The public (not mainstream, but rather our own indusrtry patying customers) have dictated loud and clear what they're willing to support and what they're not.
Yes, there will be the Ms. Olympia as we know it in 2011
This would be an example of what they should be looking for in the WPD...
i can live with it but what do you do with iris chasing lenda?
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They wont, as having a bookend on each side of figure will help with the judges having a consistent look. Bikini already looks much different than figure, fitness is slightly more muscular, and womens physique will be somewhere between figure and FBB, certainly closer to figure.
The public (not mainstream, but rather our own industry paying customers) have dictated loud and clear what they're willing to support and what they're not.
Yes, there will be the Ms. Olympia as we know it in 2011
This would be an example of what they should be looking for in the WPD...
Chick - you're my new best friend. (no homo)
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i can live with it but what do you do with iris chasing lenda?
Nothing. It is what it is. Iris will go down in history as one of the best FBB of all times.
We need to concern ourselves with the future and direction of the new division. I can all but guarantee that the numbers for WPD will be equal to, if not greater than, the Bikini division...
Hate to quote Spock.... but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
We also have to be able to see the obvious, and the ROI factor.
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Chick - you're my new best friend. (no homo)
Thought you liked the big girls, Tre?
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Nothing. It is what it is. Iris will go doen in history as one of the best FBB of all times.
We need to concern ourselves with the future and direction of the new division. I can all but guarantee that the numbers for WPD will be equal to, if not greater than, the Bikini division...
Hate to quote Spock....but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
We also have to be able to see the obvious, and the ROI factor.
nope. if iris tones down for the wpd...she will still bring the butch look but better muscle and good lines since she does have a small waist vs girls like cheryl brown and medina. how do you call it...a more muscled carla dunlap for the win? you reward her and you drive WPD back to hardcore. i still say they are going to mess it up. it's not like they havent been down this road before. this is nothing new...just another name. the anja langers of the world should have always won ms olympia. women will again push muscle in the wpd and the stupid judges will reward them.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387729;image)
this should be the template for wpd
keep the wpd girls in shoes, a level of elegance to it. no shoes...and here we go again.
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Dorian Yates ,Bev Francis and IFBB judges ruined Bodybuilding for ever .
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nope. if iris tones down for the wpd...she will still bring the butch look but better muscle and good lines since she does have a small waist vs girls like cheryl brown and medina. how do you call it...a more muscled carla dunlap for the win? you reward her and you drive WPD back to hardcore. i still say they are going to mess it up. it's not like they havent been down this road before. this is nothing new...just another name. the anja langers of the world should have always won ms olympia. women will again push muscle in the wpd and the stupid judges will reward them.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387729;image)
this should be the template for wpd
keep the wpd girls in shoes, a level of elegance to it. no shoes...and here we go again.
The judging criteria will be very specific, and the scoring will reflect what the look is to be rewarded. I'm not sure anyone of Iris' stature would be able to tone it down enough to fit in....
This is not just another attempt to "tone down" FBB, it's an entirely different direction that they have never pulled the trigger on.... until now.
Because the smallest percentage of the judging will be on muscularity, anyone with excessive muscularity will automatically be scored down... other criteria will make up the vast majority of points... symmetry, proportion, shape, beauty, skin tone, presentation, etc...
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excessive muscularity will automatically be scored down...other criteria will make up the vast majority of points...symmetry, proportion, shape, beauty, skin tone, presentation, etc...
They should use the same criteria i men BB .
(http://www.dutchbodybuilding.com/gallery/data/1016/Rory_Leidelmeyer_026.jpg)
(http://runkz.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/olympia.jpg)
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The judging criteria will be very specif, and the scoring will reflect what the look is to be rewarded. I'm not sure anyone of Iris' stature would be able to tone it down enough to fit in....
This is not just another attempt to "tone down" FBB, it's an entirely different direction that they have never pulled the trigger on....until now.
Because the smallest percentage of the judging will be on muscularity, anyone with excessive muscularity will automatically be scored down...other criteria will make up the vast majority of points...symmetry, proportion, shape, beauty, skin tone, presentation, etc...
ok chick...i'll take your word but you still arent a judge.
the criteria you listed doesnt even work at the figure level or you wouldn't have a tomboy shaped ms figure olympia...so who knows when the girls are allowed to hold a bit more muscle.
(http://www.figurerx.com/Photos/Forums/ErinStern5a.jpg)
thanks.
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They should use the same criteria i men BB .
(http://www.dutchbodybuilding.com/gallery/data/1016/Rory_Leidelmeyer_026.jpg)
(http://runkz.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/olympia.jpg)
Tough to do with a sport called bodybuilding...as no guy has ever lost a competition because he was too muscular, nor should a woman...therin lies the paradox my friend, as the difference between man and woman starts to become obscure, ans thus, not accepted.
The problem with FBB from it's inception, is that it doesnt make any sense...it's like telling a runner they lose because they were "too fast"...
As far back as 1982, they were already having discussions about how the physiques were becoming "too muscular"....1982!! Within TWO years of it being put on the map, there were problems....I remember reading a whole article on how Laura Combs was pushing the envelope and they werent sure they wanted it (FBB) to go in that direction...she wouldnt win a figure contest today.
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ok chick...i'll take your word but you still arent a judge.
the criteria you listed doesnt even work at the figure level or you wouldn't have a tomboy shaped ms figure olympia...so who knows when the girls are allowed to hold a bit more muscle.
(http://www.figurerx.com/Photos/Forums/ErinStern5a.jpg)
thanks.
Gotta respectfully disagree my friend...
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Gotta respectfully disagree my friend...
1st one photo-shopped
2nd one is a much better shot of her. maybe she should be. i just like cheryl's shape better.
(http://runkz.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/olympia.jpg)
::)
even with tears ronnie should have won #9...just a better bber. also...on the euro tour he wasted jay a week later. anyway...
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this better?
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ok chick...i'll take your word but you still arent a judge.
the criteria you listed doesnt even work at the figure level or you wouldn't have a tomboy shaped ms figure olympia...so who knows when the girls are allowed to hold a bit more muscle.
(http://www.figurerx.com/Photos/Forums/ErinStern5a.jpg)
thanks.
If you're going to try making a point why don't you use a current photo. ::)
This is what Ms. Figure Olympia looks like.
In my opinion, Juliana Malacarne is the look. Always told too big for figure but too small for bodybuilding.
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Juliana looks like she might be a contender, same for Ava Cowan
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If you're going to try making a point why don't you use a current photo. ::)
This is what Ms. Figure Olympia looks like.
In my opinion, Juliana Malacarne is the look. Always told too big for figure but too small for bodybuilding.
fuck off schmoe-ticket. they already say you got the hots for erin but she is out of your league.
i'm cool with chick's photo. like i said...i was wrong...based on the photo i posted. i have no problem with erin. plus she's an excellent track n field athlete. my bad...chick.
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fuck off schmoe-ticket. they already say you got the hots for erin but she is out of your league.
i'm cool with chick's photo. like i said...i was wrong...based on the photo i posted. i have no problem with erin. plus she's an excellent track n field athlete. my bad...chick.
No problem...but take it easy on Issac-o...he's good people
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Then these competitions have become obsolete.
Why am I surprised.
Women BB will disappear completely into the fringes while more bikini bimbos stink up every known human bandwidth.
It's all about the muscle. Guys are pushing it to the physiological limit and being applauded no matter how ugly and the women that want to check it out too are being punished because guys are horrified by what the process does to their looks.
It's not about cutting edge muscle competition the way it's marketed. It's $$$. BB has sacrificed one of its own again, but you cant argue with bean counters and numbers anymore, can you?
Hey Chick.
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Then these competitions have become obsolete.
Why am I surprised.
Women BB will disappear completely into the fringes while more bikini bimbos stink up every known human bandwidth.
It's all about the muscle. Guys are pushing it to the physiological limit and being applauded no matter how ugly and the women that want to check it out too are being punished because guys are horrified by what the process does to their looks.
It's not about cutting edge muscle competition the way it's marketed. It's $$$. BB has sacrificed one of its own again, but you cant argue with bean counters and numbers anymore, can you?
Hey Chick.
Hey.
I look at it slightly different...there are THOUSANDS of women who like training, like the idea of competing, and like the idea of being able to display and do a routine...but do not, under any circumstances, want to look like a FBB (as weve come to know)...they also do not want to be using make hormones.
So I look at it as creating opportunity for the many, and not preserving losing business for the few (OR THE NONE)...I've talked with literally hundereds of FBB, and nt too surprising, even THEY dont like what its become. We have girls turing pro, and electing NOT to compete because they're unwilling to do what it takes to achieve a look they dont want in the first place....
This new division will be a great chance for the many women who like to lift, and can have a reasonable amount of muscle and still be beautiful with full faces, sexy curves, and most importantly...acceptance by the public, by the industry. Opportunities will come by way of endorsements, representation, exposure, etc...
just like the 202 has achieved....
Time to move with the times, ans start being part of the solution, not adding to the problem as we have done as a federation.
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It's not about cutting edge muscle competition the way it's marketed. It's $$$. BB has sacrificed one of its own again, but you cant argue with bean counters and numbers anymore, can you?
Hey Chick.
It's absolutely about the money at the NPC level with greater numbers. At the pro level it doesn't matter. Women's sports don't sell with maybe the exception of women's tennis. I will say, believe it or not, that women's BB is the most popular of all the women's events on the Olympia expo stage. People who actually go to the show appreciate the hard work and dedication it takes to build that level of muscularity. Bikini girls will never get the same level of respect because they do relatively little in comparison to win a show.
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i was wrong...
Nothing new there. ;D
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It's absolutely about the money at the NPC level with greater numbers. At the pro level it doesn't matter. Women's sports don't sell with maybe the exception of women's tennis. I will say, believe it or not, that women's BB is the most popular of all the women's events on the Olympia expo stage. People who actually go to the show appreciate the hard work and dedication it takes to build that level of muscularity. Bikini girls will never get the same level of respect because they do relatively little in comparison to win a show.
I can certainly appreciate it, but it doesnt change the facts.
I can appreciate a lot of sports, but have no interest in watching them, like the Marathon or the steeple chase
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Hey.
I look at it slightly different...there are THOUSANDS of women who like training, like the idea of competing, and like the idea of being able to display and do a routine...but do not, under any circumstances, want to look like a FBB (as weve come to know)...they also do not want to be using make hormones.
So I look at it as creating opportunity for the many, and not preserving losing business for the few (OR THE NONE)...I've talked with literally hundereds of FBB, and nt too surprising, even THEY dont like what its become. We have girls turing pro, and electing NOT to compete because they're unwilling to do what it takes to achieve a look they dont want in the first place....
This new division will be a great chance for the many women who like to lift, and can have a reasonable amount of muscle and still be beautiful with full faces, sexy curves, and most importantly...acceptance by the public, by the industry. Opportunities will come by way of endorsements, representation, exposure, etc...
just like the 202 has achieved....
Time to move with the times, ans start being part of the solution, not adding to the problem as we have done as a federation.
I know, I know. But it made me really sad to read that.
I chose not to compete because I wasn't prepared to take any drugs. I don't even take aspirin for a headache. I loved working out and folks at the gym were pushing me to take it to the next level but I knew it wasnt for me. Still love looking at the big girls though. No homo.
;D
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Now this is better , still extreme but at least she doesnt have the manface and disgusting penoris bulge going on (yet)
(http://anngruber.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cherylbrown.jpg)
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I know, I know. But it made me really sad to read that.
I chose not to compete because I wasn't prepared to take any drugs. I don't even take aspirin for a headache. I loved working out and folks at the gym were pushing me to take it to the next level but I knew it wasnt for me. Still love looking at the big girls though. No homo.
;D
Well then you represent the exact demographics were appealing to...
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Well then you represent the exact demographics were appealing to...
??? she just said that she doesn't want to use drugs .
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??? she just said that she doesn't want to use drugs .
right...
If if a girl enjoys competing, doesnt want to look to muscular,take drugs, then the new WPD is made for them.
Am I missing something here?
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Well then you represent the exact demographics were appealing to...
Yeah, no drugs. And I love looking at the big girls. They are works of art to me, but the price they pay for exploring the extremes of muscle are there to be seen. Real life and in your face.
I'm more likely to follow them than a new brand of women I could probably see everyday down at the beach.
But I am in the minority, I know.
I cried for weeks when they cast that boring blonde as the Terminator. I wanted Joanie Laurer, but the bean counters strike again.
--------------------------------------------------------
And yeah to Che's comments. Those girls are taking all manner of "supplements." I put the day I realised how many drugs are in the sport and among athletes in general, right up there with Santa doesn't exist and there is no Easter bunny. :'(
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Since there will no longer be women's BB, will Iris be allowed to cross over to the men's 202? I think it's a shame that her sport is dissolving while she is in the midst of an unbelievable career.
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Since there will no longer be women's BB, will Iris be allowed to cross over to the men's 202? I think it's a shame that her sport is dissolving while she is in the midst of an unbelievable career.
Preach.
These girls work hard. They lift heavy and push it to the max. It was very tempting when I hit the wall. Take a bit of this and you can blow your heaviest lift through the roof.................
:(
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Since there will no longer be women's BB, will Iris be allowed to cross over to the men's 202? I think it's a shame that her sport is dissolving while she is in the midst of an unbelievable career.
LOL..should be
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LOL..should be
iris ???
what about debbie? i'd be her schmoe-daddy in a minute.
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They should have synchronized posing.
Olympia calibre male BB and an Olympia female BB. Extra trophy and prize money for the winner. The girls will have the only setting they make sense in and it would be aesthetically sound.
8)
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right...
If if a girl enjoys competing, doesnt want to look to muscular,take drugs, then the new WPD is made for them.
Am I missing something here?
90% of the girls that compete in the olympia (figure )are taking drugs.
Am I missing something here?
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90% of the girls that compete in the olympia (figure )are taking drugs.
Am I missing something here?
Yes, you are if you dont see any difference betwen Iris and Sonia Gonzalez ans Adeala and Erin...
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Yes, you are if you dont see any difference betwen Iris and Sonia Gonzalez ans Adeala and Erin...
I know you are not that retarded .
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Yes, you are if you dont see any difference betwen Iris and Sonia Gonzalez ans Adeala and Erin...
Difference is amount of drugs. ;)
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90% of the girls that compete in the olympia (figure )are taking drugs.
Am I missing something here?
I'd bet dollars to donuts some of bikini girls are running a tad bit of anavar. I'm not excluding t3 or clen either, but that's obvious
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I'd bet dollars to donuts some of bikini girls are running a tad bit of anavar. I'm not excluding t3 or clen either, but that's obvious
I know but according to Chick if they don't look like Yaxeni or Iris they are natural.
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I know but according to Chick if they don't look like Yaxeni or Iris they are natural.
Looks like you've missed the point entirely....
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No, there will always be the Olympia title...it just may have a different look in the future
People were saying that about 5 years ago. The women were supposed to be softer. That's the year Yaxeni Garcia won it. Then, the next year she comes in less defined and even softer and she get clobbered, with Iris Kyle (who, minus the hairdo and implants, looks like a men's NPC middleweight competitor) wins the show.
The easiest way to change the look is to place Kyle DEAD LAST.
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I just gave you the official word, I;m the one who wrote it up. I'm posting on the subject as it's been brought up, as to make sure the crrect info is getting out to the public....rules and regs will be out shortly
I didn't know the details of female physique deal, only the new male physique class. Thanks for the news.
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Well then you represent the exact demographics were appealing to...
If (and this is a big IF), another organization devoted to hardcore BB comes in, the NPC/IFBB could go the way of the old AAU physique. The NPC caught on quickly 30 yrs ago because it was ONLY for bodybuilding, run by bodybuilders.
The NPC/IFBB has lost all media share on TV and remains viable only due to the family and friends that come to watch loved ones compete.
The men are still doing fine but if a asavy promoter steps in with some bucks and a passion for hardcore BB, all the woman and many of the men would jump ship. The big question is this: Can the NPC/IFBB survive without a viable division of good male bodybuilders? Will more fans turn out and support a contest that will be mostly figure and bathing suit bodies ( male and female).
I tend to be the odd man out, but have NO intention of going to any more IFBB or NPC shows with the new format .
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If (and this is a big IF), another organization devoted to hardcore BB comes in, the NPC/IFBB could go the way of the old AAU physique.
The NPC caught on quickly 30 yrs ago because it was ONLY for bodybuilding , run by bodybuilders.
The NPC/IFBB has lost all media share on TV and remains viable only due to the family and friends that come to watch loved ones compete.
The men are still doing fine but if a asavy promoter steps in with some bucks and a passion for hardcore BB, all the woman and many of the men would jump ship. The big question is this: Can the NPC/IFBB survive without a viable division of good male bodybuilders?
Will more fans turn out and support a contes that will be mostly figure and bathing suit bodies ( male and female).
I tend to be the odd man out, but have NO intenetion of going to any more IFBB or NPC shows with the new format .
Lost me there bro....
The "hardcore" mkt is a nitche of a nitche...and hardly viable to sustain. No one is jumping ship for any reason...NPC is the only road to the pro's, no other organization is even on the map in comparison...
People support what they have an interest in, I'm not sure why you're so bent out of shape over it...watch what you want to watch.
Why would your passion for BB be compromised by adding other divisions? The BB remains unchanged...not like any rules have been set to change the BB competition...
Mens BB is still mens BB...no different than last year, 5 years ago, or 40 years ago..
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Lost me there bro.... The "hardcore" mkt is a nitche of a nitche...and hardly viable to sustain. No one is jumping ship for any reason...NPC is the only road to the pro's, no other organization is even on the map in comparison...
People support what they have an interest in, I'm not sure why you're so bent out of shape over it...watch what you want to watch. Why would your passion for BB be compromised by adding other divisions? The BB remains unchanged...not like any rules have been set to change the BB competition... Mens BB is still mens BB...no different than last year, 5 years ago, or 40 years ago..
I see your pt and maybe you are right. I am a bit puzzled why this bugs me so much, but it doesn't seem "right" to me, just a gut feeling I guess. I just can't help feeling the ideals of real bodybuilding are being sold out to keep an organization making $$$.
But seriously there Bob, think back to why you wanted to be a BODYBUILDER years ago. Now look at the direction of the NPC and tell me that would appeal to a young Bob Chick wanting to be Mr Olympia. ;)
I really am a hardcore old school bodybuilder there Bob and love the sport and like you, know its' history. When you can't call what the woman do "BODYBUILING" something is wrong. Oh well, that is my rant and a sincere THANKS to you for giving this some debate .
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I see your pt and maybe you are right. I am a bit puzzled why this bugs me so much, but it doesn't seem "right" to me, just a gut feeling I guess.
I just can't help feeling the ideals of real bodybuilding are being sold out to keep an organization making $$$.
But seriously there Bob, think back to why you wanted to be a BODYBUILDER years ago. Now look at the direction of the NPC and tell me that would appeal to a young Bob Chick wanting to be Mr Olympia. ;)
I really am a hardcore old school bodybuilder there Bob and love the sport and like you, know its' history.
When you can't call what the woman do "BODYBUILING" something is wrong.
Oh well, that is my rant and a sincere THANKS to you for giving this some debate .
I wouldnt have cared about any other division, as being Mr Olympia was what I wanted to be...the other stuff wouldnt have affected me one way or another.
When you call what the women do-"bodybuilding"... something is wrong... thus the need for change
The ideals of BB havent been compromised...at all. Like you my friend, I too with the numbers of hardcore BBers were going up at record pace....but thats not reality.
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I wouldnt have cared about any other division, as being Mr Olympia was what I wanted to be...the other stuff wouldnt have affected me one way or another. When you call what the women do-"bodybuilding"... something is wrong... thus the need for change. The ideals of BB havent been compromised...at all. Like you my friend, I too with the numbers of hardcore BBers were going up at record pace....but thats not reality.
Thanks again for the thoughtful reply. I already know I have no interest in judging NPC any longer with all the new NON bodybuilding divisions. You are 100% correct, that change in life is the one constant. Oh well, maybe the sport has left me or vice versa.
LOL< all I do know is that I am a huge hockey fan ( again) and been a season ticket holder with the Atl Thrashers (NHL) for the past 2 years. Bodybuilding was a fun and a memorable part of my life, my heart says it is time to move on at this point. Thanks again Bob, you are one of the few decent people in the sport.
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Why would your passion for BB be compromised by adding other divisions? The BB remains unchanged...not like any rules have been set to change the BB competition...
Mens BB is still mens BB...no different than last year, 5 years ago, or 40 years ago..
We all know that promoters have a propensity for combining men's and women's shows to boost ticket sales. You are going to have to sit through fitness, figure, bikini, WPD, & MPD at some point if you now want to attend a bodybuilding show. I think that's Howard's issue. And it's a valid one because 80% of the show is now non-bodybuilding. It's annoying.
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We all know that promoters have a propensity for combining men's and women's shows to boost ticket sales. You are going to have to sit through fitness, figure, bikini, WPD, & MPD at some point if you now want to attend a bodybuilding show. I think that's Howard's issue. And it's a valid one because 80% of the show is now non-bodybuilding. It's annoying.
Exactly! Thanks for summing it up so well.
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not necessarily...as the numbers of FBB continue to decline, the plug will have to be pulled at some point. Womens BB has become obsolete...
i was told that sometime is within the next 2 years
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It's all just a name game. The wheel has been set in motion. Nothing is going to stop it. God's Word tells us that there will be giants in the last days... The drug abuse (sorcery) and lust of the flesh will continue at unprecedented levels.
Mark my words...watch and see.
Dennis L. Bates
www.MuscleMissions.org
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People have been lamenting the death of women's bodybuilding since the 1990's.
I think they should go ahead and kill it.
Stop letting these women do that to themselves.
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I'm excited about this new division, although I don't think that it should become like what figure should have been/should be.
We've already got figure and bikini. I hope it remains more like BB. It should be a LW version of BB that rewards feminity and overall presentation more than size. Conditioning should still be REALLY important.
I'm definitely interested, depending on how the criteria/standards are set. I think it would be great, esp at the Pro level, and I think there would be alot of competitors right off the bat. There are definitely a TON of LW/MW pro fbbs out there who would be great for it.
Btw great meeting you in Hartford Chick! :D
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Questions for Chick....just curious...
Do you think this level of muscularity/conditioning would be considered too much for the WPD? I'm 113 pounds in this picture.
Do you think we'll be able to continue to pose like this?
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Rip , obviously you love what you do and honestly that pic is proberly one of the best I have seen of you but you are still to masculine because of the drugs , thats what the problem is with FBB ..please dont take that to heart as im not being an asshole here just speaking the truth.
FBB should remain like females , currently most look like men facialy..Cory Everson still retained her feminine look but was muscular whilst using drugs , todays FBBs use way to many androgen based drugs and alot of the other stuff guys are using , some of them could wipe out the mens comps from the 70s and 80s with the size and condition they carry , that has got to stop , its a joke - just like the bloated mess in the majority of the top 10 at the mr o that to needs looking at..chick things need to change. >:(
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Rip , obviously you love what you do and honestly that pic is proberly one of the best I have seen of you but you are still to masculine because of the drugs , thats what the problem is with FBB ..please dont take that to heart as im not being an asshole here just speaking the truth.
FBB should remain like females , currently most look like men facialy..Cory Everson still retained her feminine look but was muscular whilst using drugs , todays FBBs use way to many androgen based drugs and alot of the other stuff guys are using , some of them could wipe out the mens comps from the 70s and 80s with the size and condition they carry , that has got to stop , its a joke - just like the bloated mess in the majority of the top 10 at the mr o that to needs looking at..chick things need to change. >:(
This.
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Rip , obviously you love what you do and honestly that pic is proberly one of the best I have seen of you but you are still to masculine because of the drugs , thats what the problem is with FBB ..please dont take that to heart as im not being an asshole here just speaking the truth.
FBB should remain like females , currently most look like men facialy..Cory Everson still retained her feminine look but was muscular whilst using drugs , todays FBBs use way to many androgen based drugs and alot of the other stuff guys are using , some of them could wipe out the mens comps from the 70s and 80s with the size and condition they carry , that has got to stop , its a joke - just like the bloated mess in the majority of the top 10 at the mr o that to needs looking at..chick things need to change. >:(
RIPitup looks great! I also agree that the EXTREME drug abuse is at the root of any problems with female BB .
BUT, they refuse to drug test them because, THEN they would have to test the men and that is a NON starter. So, they threw the woman bodybuilders under the proverbial bus.
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RIPitup looks great! I also agree that the EXTREME drug abuse is at the root of any problems with female BB .
BUT, they refuse to drug test them because, THEN they would have to test the men and that is a NON starter. So, they threw the woman bodybuilders under the proverbial bus.
so Howie, you don't mind if women use various bodybuilding drugs in moderation?
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Rip , obviously you love what you do and honestly that pic is proberly one of the best I have seen of you but you are still to masculine because of the drugs , thats what the problem is with FBB ..please dont take that to heart as im not being an asshole here just speaking the truth.
FBB should remain like females , currently most look like men facialy..Cory Everson still retained her feminine look but was muscular whilst using drugs , todays FBBs use way to many androgen based drugs and alot of the other stuff guys are using , some of them could wipe out the mens comps from the 70s and 80s with the size and condition they carry , that has got to stop , its a joke - just like the bloated mess in the majority of the top 10 at the mr o that to needs looking at..chick things need to change. >:(
OWNED. :D
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Thought you liked the big girls, Tre?
Yes and no. I do like and support the big girls, but my in-house favorites have always been the 'tweeners', the girls who were the most jacked fitness/figure competitors, but not quite big enough for bodybuilding...much like what we saw back in the mid-80s when I really became a fan.
I don't want to see national and pro level bodybuilding eliminated, but you can be certain that I'm going to get onboard with vocal support as well as occasional sponsorship of the new division.
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Dorian Yates ,Bev Francis and IFBB judges ruined Bodybuilding for ever .
QFT
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Rip , obviously you love what you do and honestly that pic is proberly one of the best I have seen of you but you are still to masculine because of the drugs , thats what the problem is with FBB ..please dont take that to heart as im not being an asshole here just speaking the truth.
FBB should remain like females , currently most look like men facialy..Cory Everson still retained her feminine look but was muscular whilst using drugs , todays FBBs use way to many androgen based drugs and alot of the other stuff guys are using , some of them could wipe out the mens comps from the 70s and 80s with the size and condition they carry , that has got to stop , its a joke - just like the bloated mess in the majority of the top 10 at the mr o that to needs looking at..chick things need to change. >:(
Good post.
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so Howie, you don't mind if women use various bodybuilding drugs in moderation?
I have no personal issues with individual drug use by any adult. The problem is deeper then that in reality as it pertains to bodybuilding.
1. Much of the drug use is illegal and also on the official list of banned substances in the IFBB.
2. From the start of the first Olympia, BB drugs were used by the vast majority of those winning the big titles.
3. The look obtained via drugs became the actual winning standard.
4. Since steroids are adrogenic male based hormones the female BB showed more side effects then males.
All that was needed was a basic urine test to keep things from getting too extreme. Combine that with a strict adherence to the actual judging standards and reward the best OVERALL physique. The IFBB/NPC let things get too far afield in female pro BB and kept rewarding the big, freaky woman with the top places.
Turning it into a glorified swimsuit beauty pageant will result in it being even less like a legit sport. Ya know, the Jerry Springer show is funny and makes money, but I sure don't respct it as a legit, serious program.
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Rip , obviously you love what you do and honestly that pic is proberly one of the best I have seen of you but you are still too masculine because of the drugs you're stronger and better conditioned than me, that's what the problem is with FBB ..please don't take that to heart as I'm not being an asshole here just speaking the truth.
Fixed.
You kick ass, Rip. In 2008-2009, you were clearly a bodybuilder, whereas your size in 2007 probably would've been just about right for Physique.
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Mark my words...watch and see.
Dennis L. Bates
www.MuscleMissions.org
Could you just kill yourself instead you fucking loser. if there is a god, he must have a good belly laugh at how trailer trash like yourself can distort the concept of religion. keep trying desperately to draw ridiculous connections between Christianity and bodybuilding
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I've said, on numerous Boards, for some time now...that it was a shame that a physique like Juliana Malacarne's had "no where to go" (except for maybe "NABBA").
She got caught right in the middle of the "Figure" transition, and ended up in a "No Women's Land" with either being told she was "too big/too hard"; OR "not big enough".
As the NPC is fine tuning their judging criteria, Chick...I hope that her type of physique remains at the forefront.
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The drug abuse (sorcery) and lust of the flesh will continue at unprecedented levels.
Allah
Praise the Lord Brother I am a convert. Now where do I get some?
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Maybe you guys can let the "female" bodybuilders compete in the men's division...
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Questions for Chick....just curious...
Do you think this level of muscularity/conditioning would be considered too much for the WPD? I'm 113 pounds in this picture.
Do you think we'll be able to continue to pose like this?
Hey Lori-
The posing position is spot on....
Conditioning might be a tough extreme, probably your two week out condition would be right on the money...you can keep the face full and not have to go to any lengths to "dry out"...
This looks like its right up your alley
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QFT
Actually, I've given this a lot of thought over the last 6 months...I've come to this conclusion...
It's EVERYONE'S fault...and No ONE'S fault.
The true fault lies in the complexity of just what FBB is....a no win situation for either side.
Judges fault....it would appear that this may be the easy finger to point, as the simple answer is "They are the ones awarding the look"...while that might be true "technically", they can also only judge whats standing before them.
Athletes fault...no one forces any athlete to use whatever they want to achieve whatever look they're trying to achieve. FBBers will do what they think necessary to win over the look that's currently holding the title, so while the bar raises every year, so does the look. The athletes will simply say that they are doing whats vital to winning.
Not the fans fault...they will support with their presence and dollars what they like, and clearly, they have chosen NOT to support the current look...and ha vent for some time. The domino effect is what follows with no fan support comes no company support, which leads to less promoter support, which leads to less magazine support, which makes it an obsolete sport.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter WHOSE fault it is, it's WHAT it has become that needs to be addressed. The NPC/ IFBB has adopted the stance of being proactive and making a change for the betterment of the sport and athletes alike. This is a great opportunity for those within the FBB community to transition, and move forward with a prosperous venture which can extend their careers, lend to more contracts, coverage, and no negative connotations.
It's a dog chasing its tail...
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I've said, on numerous Boards, for some time now...that it was a shame that a physique like Juliana Malacarne's had "no where to go" (except for maybe "NABBA").
She got caught right in the middle of the "Figure" transition, and ended up in a "No Women's Land" with either being told she was "too big/too hard"; OR "not big enough".
As the NPC is fine tuning their judging criteria, Chick...I hope that her type of physique remains at the forefront.
Well hello :)
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I've said, on numerous Boards, for some time now...that it was a shame that a physique like Juliana Malacarne's had "no where to go" (except for maybe "NABBA").
She got caught right in the middle of the "Figure" transition, and ended up in a "No Women's Land" with either being told she was "too big/too hard"; OR "not big enough".
As the NPC is fine tuning their judging criteria, Chick...I hope that her type of physique remains at the forefront.
That's a great physique. A good friend of mine has a similar build and was disillusioned with figure last time she competed, so maybe the Women's Physique will get her interested again.
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You're a little off on the title and on why its being done...here are some facts
Yes, there is a new division that will be put in place, it's called "WOMENS PHYSIQUE DIVISION"
It will not replacing WBB, it's a whole different division
They will not wear heels
WBB has phased itself out with numbers dwindling to the point that we can no longer justify it
This new division has NOTHING to do with any of the others in terms of any rule changes as you mentioned, there will be no changes to Figure, bikini.
The WPD will run much like a FBB competition except for a few things...the girls will do quarter turns, mandatories, routine...difference will be the poses will be restructured to be more feminine and the physiques will resemble more of the physiques of WBB in the early to mid 80's...
Initially, there will be only one class...as numbers grow, so will the class sizes/ structure
Figure girls that are too hard for figure would fit in , as would the same for Fitness...FBB would have to scale it WAY down to even have a chance of fitting into the criteria. This will not resemble FBB by any stretch as to what it is today.
Hope this clarifies any questions that may come up....
Awesome! :D
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Actually, I've given this a lot of thought over the last 6 months...I've come to this conclusion...
It's EVERYONE'S fault...and No ONE'S fault.
The true fault lies in the complexity of just what FBB is....a no win situation for either side.
Judges fault....it would appear that this may be the easy finger to point, as the simple answer is "They are the ones awarding the look"...while that might be true "technically", they can also only judge whats standing before them.
Athletes fault...no one forces any athlete to use whatever they want to achieve whatever look they're trying to achieve. FBBers will do what they think necessary to win over the look that's currently holding the title, so while the bar raises every year, so does the look. The athletes will simply say that they are doing whats vital to winning.
Not the fans fault...they will support with their presence and dollars what they like, and clearly, they have chosen NOT to support the current look...and ha vent for some time. The domino effect is what follows with no fan support comes no company support, which leads to less promoter support, which leads to less magazine support, which makes it an obsolete sport.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter WHOSE fault it is, it's WHAT it has become that needs to be addressed. The NPC/ IFBB has adopted the stance of being proactive and making a change for the betterment of the sport and athletes alike. This is a great opportunity for those within the FBB community to transition, and move forward with a prosperous venture which can extend their careers, lend to more contracts, coverage, and no negative connotations.
It's a dog chasing its tail...
Its true that judges can only judge what is in front of them, but they have the freedom of choosing one physique over the other, its clear what they wanted and awarded. This, as you mentioned, leads to the athletes doing what's necessary to beat the current standard and since the bar continues to be raised the athletes wil continue to go that direction.......but who rewards the standard? The judges/judging criteria.
You're absolutelty right about this issue not being about blaming someone, but more of taking action..........its seems the IFBB/NPC is going this direction which is a great thing.
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ttt
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Its true that judges can only judge what is in front of them, but they have the freedom of choosing one physique over the other, its clear what they wanted and awarded. This, as you mentioned, leads to the athletes doing what's necessary to beat the current standard and since the bar continues to be raised the athletes wil continue to go that direction.......but who rewards the standard? The judges/judging criteria.
You're absolutelty right about this issue not being about blaming someone, but more of taking action..........its seems the IFBB/NPC is going this direction which is a great thing.
I guess my point is, when ALL the physiques are over the top, then no matter who you choose it isnt what you're looking for....you're assuming there are various physiques to chose from...very difficult, especially at the local/ regional level. How many times have we seen the hard/ manly chick win a class and the smaller/ doesnt look like she trains/ fat chick winning hers....now what? Cant pick the fat one, but the other is TOO muscular....gotta go with the muscular one....and thats where it begins...
Taking a pro active approach I believe is the right thing to do...
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Hey Lori-
The posing position is spot on....
Conditioning might be a tough extreme, probably your two week out condition would be right on the money...you can keep the face full and not have to go to any lengths to "dry out"...
This looks like its right up your alley
Thanks Chick... hopefully this will be a good fit for me at the PRO level. Looking foward to hearing more about it!
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Fixed.
You kick ass, Rip. In 2008-2009, you were clearly a bodybuilder, whereas your size in 2007 probably would've been just about right for Physique.
Come on - bb is purely visual and these woman look like men because of the drugs - end of story.
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THAT is a reasonable explanation Bob and I must say it helped me understand the need for change.
Thanks.
Actually, I've given this a lot of thought over the last 6 months...I've come to this conclusion...
It's EVERYONE'S fault...and No ONE'S fault.
The true fault lies in the complexity of just what FBB is....a no win situation for either side.
Judges fault....it would appear that this may be the easy finger to point, as the simple answer is "They are the ones awarding the look"...while that might be true "technically", they can also only judge whats standing before them.
Athletes fault...no one forces any athlete to use whatever they want to achieve whatever look they're trying to achieve. FBBers will do what they think necessary to win over the look that's currently holding the title, so while the bar raises every year, so does the look. The athletes will simply say that they are doing whats vital to winning.
Not the fans fault...they will support with their presence and dollars what they like, and clearly, they have chosen NOT to support the current look...and ha vent for some time. The domino effect is what follows with no fan support comes no company support, which leads to less promoter support, which leads to less magazine support, which makes it an obsolete sport.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter WHOSE fault it is, it's WHAT it has become that needs to be addressed. The NPC/ IFBB has adopted the stance of being proactive and making a change for the betterment of the sport and athletes alike. This is a great opportunity for those within the FBB community to transition, and move forward with a prosperous venture which can extend their careers, lend to more contracts, coverage, and no negative connotations.
It's a dog chasing its tail...
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THAT is a reasonable explanation Bob and I must say it helped me understand the need for change.
Thanks.
Anytime, Howie...I'm here to help
In addition to whats already been explained, You can also look at it in these terms...
If BB is considered a nitche sport, then FEMALE BB is a nitche of a nitche...which means demographically, there simply arent enough numbers to support it, and subsequently, no money.
BB has had to branch out over the years in terms of reaching to a broader spectrum of potential fans, and exposing our brand to people that might not otherwise have been a part of it....the EXPO's are a prime example, as they now extend beyond the basic BB show and include many ansellary sports like wrestling/ grappling, arm wrestling, strongman, MMA, and many other sports which use BB as a means of training....
Keeping BB as an island would only insure that eventually, it dies off...
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Question, Bob.
With this new division; what direction do you see FIGURE going?
To me, Bikini has more of a "defined" look than Figure has...and I certainly think we all see at least the "potential" of this new division...but Figure criteria have left MANY sratching their heads.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Mufasa
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Question, Bob.
With this new division; what direction do you see FIGURE going?
To me, Bikini has more of a "defined" look than Figure has...and I certainly think we all see at least the "potential" of this new division...but Figure criteria have left MANY sratching their heads.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Mufasa
This new division is the other "bookend" we were needing to make the judging criteria much more stable...now if a girl is too soft, etc...she has the option of competing in bikini.
Same will go for ones that are too hard, naturally more muscular, or simply enjoy training and the option of performing a posing routine, they now have an option (other than FBB)...because FBB is such a extreme, it left the other end wide open for the girls to slowly get harder, more defined, etc....
This addition will help define all three, BD, FD, PD....fitness kind of stands on its own due to the routines, etc...
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Makes sense.
Thanks, Bob.
Mufasa
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Lots of avenues for mid 30s single mother attention whores to strut their stuff, it sounds like. :D
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Or for a seasoned female bodybuilder that has been striving for years to build muscle to be more competitive the way they where judging to now have too much muscle and have to either stop training and diet the muscle back off or just quit!!!! Sucks but hey it is all about the money and I could use mine to go on vacation instead of giving it to the industry to only not get rewarded.
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What would happen if we let women decide what the look should be? Would it be shebeasts from another Universe...or back to the Lenda Murray, Rachel Mclish, Corey Everson days?
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Listen to the halfwit Bob Chick apologize for women's bodybuilding. It is your damn fault that the women use all those damn drugs, etc., because you and the committee is responsible for no testing. Then you allow fake boobs and the freaks just keep getting less attractive by the year. Now you are going to have new criteria. What a total joke this sport is. Half wits running it and even dopier stooges explaining it to the knuckleheads.
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Listen to the halfwit Bob Chick apologize for women's bodybuilding. It is your damn fault that the women use all those damn drugs, etc., because you and the committee is responsible for no testing. Then you allow fake boobs and the freaks just keep getting less attractive by the year. Now you are going to have new criteria. What a total joke this sport is. Half wits running it and even dopier stooges explaining it to the knuckleheads.
Show him who's boss by sodomizing him Vince.
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Or for a seasoned female bodybuilder that has been striving for years to build muscle to be more competitive the way they where judging to now have too much muscle and have to either stop training and diet the muscle back off or just quit!!!! Sucks but hey it is all about the money and I could use mine to go on vacation instead of giving it to the industry to only not get rewarded.
Or you could look at it as an opportunity to do all that you love and enjoy without feeling like you have to compromise your principles to do it...being that its all about money, wouldnt you rather be put into a position to actually MAKE SOME for once?
Question for you: would you be willing to do everything it takes to be(and look) like number one?
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I have been doing everything and giving everything i have to strive to be number one now!!! And explain how i could now "make money" All I have been doing since 2001 is spending money on hotel, flights, entry fees, and npc card renewals. Not to mention trainers, food and supplementation to be a better competitor.
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I have been doing everything and giving everything i have to strive to be number one now!!! And explain how i could now "make money" All I have been doing since 2001 is spending money on hotel, flights, entry fees, and npc card renewals. Not to mention trainers, food and supplementation to be a better competitor.
Exactly, an endless pit of money spending. We all had to go through a similiar path, the difference is, there is no pot of gold at the end of the FBB rainbow. While nothing is guaranteed in this sport as there are a number of factors involved, you would at least have a chance of securing a contract, representing a company, increased prize money, etc...
"Supp" money you could cut down to zero...no need in a division rewarding EVERY other factor...shape, symmetry, proporton, presentation, face, skin tone, etc..
The number of shows will increase dramatically, just as the figure and now bikini has done...leading to more pro cards, more competitions, more money
Magazine coverage will go up tremendously, as it has a broader appeal...coverage elads to more exposure
Look at what the 202 has done for the guys in a similiar nature...
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Listen to the halfwit Bob Chick apologize for women's bodybuilding. It is your damn fault that the women use all those damn drugs, etc., because you and the committee is responsible for no testing. Then you allow fake boobs and the freaks just keep getting less attractive by the year. Now you are going to have new criteria. What a total joke this sport is. Half wits running it and even dopier stooges explaining it to the knuckleheads.
I agree with this Vince, but also know from personal past experience that drug testing is a tough thing to work in .
I was once involved with AAU physique and drug testing law suits bankrupted and ended the Mr America 14 yrs ago.
My only issue with Bob's new female direction is with the huge% that compete in bikini and not as physique or bodybuilding athletes.
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So if this is the last year for fbb then how will we be judged at the shows in 2011?? I had planned on the Masters Nationals and North Americans? I don't know how to train or eat at this point?? Wanted to try to earn my pro card. Now I ask myself "why" it won't be good as a bb in 2012 even if i could compete in the new physique i still have to diet and cardio off my hard earned muscle.
So, the question is where do we go from here? If i start to downsize and do the shows in 2011 am i then going to be beat by the bigger girls? or balls to the wall and stay with the existing criteria and compete in 2011 to after then downsize???
When is this going to be determined for sure so we can plan on what to do from here? thanks cause i need to figure out what to eat and train!!
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2hot, is this you? If so, you're probably part of the problem, not the solution. :D
(http://i48.tinypic.com/qs441x.jpg)
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no this is me
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no this is me
Thanks for proving my point...
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That brings up a good point, who's qualified to compete in the new FPD? Can existing IFBB fitness, figure and FBB pros automatically cross over? I have a feeling current FBB's will be given the Monica Brant treatment if they cross over. Low placings until you get discouraged enough to quit.
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So, the question is where do we go from here? If i start to downsize and do the shows in 2011 am i then going to be beat by the bigger girls? or balls to the wall and stay with the existing criteria and compete in 2011 to after then downsize???
that cliche pretty much sums up the problem with women's bodybuilding.
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I hear what you're saying,and my own personal preference is for more curves in the figure division...
I thionk you're confused....WPD will be girls who are slightly MORE muscular than Figure...it's for girls who like to train and lift weights, but look feminine. Cheryl is WAY more muscular than the average figure girl.
So will there be drug testing in the new WPD to dissuade drug use? Never understood why women wanted to juice in the first place of course unless they were lesbian................. ..
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so are you here to judge who is qualified? this thread was very informative but if you are going to turn it into a bash this competitor or that competitor then i am very disappointed and Bob this just shows why we should just stop being a part of the npc and spread that word.
Thanks for proving my point...
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so are you here to judge who is qualified?
Settle down, brah. Just giving my opinion. This is more the ideal imo-
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=387803;image)
You know, not looking like the angel of death.
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So if this is the last year for fbb then how will we be judged at the shows in 2011?? I had planned on the Masters Nationals and North Americans? I don't know how to train or eat at this point?? Wanted to try to earn my pro card. Now I ask myself "why" it won't be good as a bb in 2012 even if i could compete in the new physique i still have to diet and cardio off my hard earned muscle.
So, the question is where do we go from here? If i start to downsize and do the shows in 2011 am i then going to be beat by the bigger girls? or balls to the wall and stay with the existing criteria and compete in 2011 to after then downsize???
When is this going to be determined for sure so we can plan on what to do from here? thanks cause i need to figure out what to eat and train!!
Good questions, which I'm sure are shared by others as well...
I guess you could look at it a few different ways, finishing a goal you started, or re-structuring what your ultimate goal is for the future. The future lies with the WPD.
This I can assure you....this is not rumor or idle talk...there are no less than 6 shows being put into place as we speak, as pro qualifiers for the new WPD. A pro division will be set up to kick off at the start of the 2012 season.
It all depends on what your individual goals are...if the new division appeals to you, then I would suggest adusting your program to fit into the new crieria....size will no NO factor in it just as its not in the figure/ fitness/ bikini divisions..... so no, you wont be getting beat by the "big girls"...
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Will female bb as we know it today eventually disappear?
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Will female bb as we know it today eventually disappear?
Lets hope so!
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Question..will all the pro fbbrs be already qualifed to compete in this new division if they choose too? I am personally ok with downsizing(was planning on it anways)Or do we have to requalify? I know that I can cross over to figure as a pro now but it seems from another post here you said we would have to requalify which doesnt make sense. lso when will more details be shared with all of us so we know what to expect for next year? Thanks Bob
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Bob is probably too nice to say it, but I don't think current pro female bodybuilders are welcome in the new FPD.
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The new division will be impossible to judge in any kind of objective way. Bodybuilding is already subjective as it is but since size and conditioning won't be decisive factors anymore the judging will, I think, be based on "attractiveness". No one will know how to "train" for it.
I don't think it will become any more popular either. The fitness and figure girls today are slamming androgens in amounts that would make Cory Everson piss her pants, so no, womens "bodybuilding" will never go back to what it was in the 80s. If it did, the WPD girls would be smaller, smoother and less virilized than the fitness girls today. ;)
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Wont matter anyway. This is an organization run by men who decide what the women should look like. Muscle size and conditioning no longer matter so it will be another beauty contest with some muscle. Older girls need not apply as the judges will eventually choose younger prettier girls. It has now become a T&A show like the other divisions.
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Bob is probably too nice to say it, but I don't think current pro female bodybuilders are welcome in the new FPD.
there are profbbrs who have competed in figure so they were able to crossover. So the same rules should apply or it wouldnt make any sense.
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Question..will all the pro fbbrs be already qualifed to compete in this new division if they choose too? I am personally ok with downsizing(was planning on it anways)Or do we have to requalify? I know that I can cross over to figure as a pro now but it seems from another post here you said we would have to requalify which doesnt make sense. lso when will more details be shared with all of us so we know what to expect for next year? Thanks Bob
Hey Deb-
The details are being worked on as we speak, criteria and guidelines are being outlined and shows are being put into place (there will be no less than 6 qualifying shows in 2011, with a pro division to be in place starting the 2012 season.
No, as a pro, you will not have to RE-Q, as you will simply be able to compete in the WPD if you should choose.
We'll be issuing a "official" statement as soon as were prepared and details are in place...until then, feel free to ask any questions you wish...I'll be more than happy to give you answers
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What amounts have you heard? :D
Just based on observation. Take the girl you posted earlier and then compare to Ms O line-ups of early 1980s. How many of them had these capped delts for example... maybe they didn't believe in lateral raises? :D
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Women in Thongs is serious biznis.
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The new division will be impossible to judge in any kind of objective way. Bodybuilding is already subjective as it is but since size and conditioning won't be decisive factors anymore the judging will, I think, be based on "attractiveness". No one will know how to "train" for it.
I don't think it will become any more popular either. The fitness and figure girls today are slamming androgens in amounts that would make Cory Everson piss her pants, so no, womens "bodybuilding" will never go back to what it was in the 80s. If it did, the WPD girls would be smaller, smoother and less virilized than the fitness girls today. ;)
yep...and they also said Figure would bomb, as well as the 202 and Bikini....
Like all things, the answer usually lies "in the middle", which is where most of the questions will be answered.
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my question now is how d I quote someone here lol Thanks Bob I appreciate all the answers and feedback. I of course want all woman to be able to be able to compete and lift as they choose and have somewhere
do that. I personally love the idea of getting smaller and girls being more healthy and natural. Im genetically not a small girl so I will compete and place where I place ;)
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Just based on observation. Take the girl you posted earlier and then compare to Ms O line-ups of early 1980s. How many of them had these capped delts for example... maybe they didn't believe in lateral raises? :D
Gotcha. Some girls have told me they use synthol in the delts, I think it would be pretty hard to actually develop them to the extent some have without the front delt growing (even just from laterals...)
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my question now is how d I quote someone here lol Thanks Bob I appreciate all the answers and feedback. I of course want all woman to be able to be able to compete and lift as they choose and have somewhere
do that. I personally love the idea of getting smaller and girls being more healthy and natural. Im genetically not a small girl so I will compete and place where I place ;)
Glad you're on board. , would be the key, as were looking to provide a platform that will promote women who like to train while preserving a healthy, athletic, feminine look. Women who feel like this would be a good fit, should be looking to not scale back the training in the gym, but rather the diet/ supplement programs....
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Top woman bodybuilders in the 80s. Which current division would they fit in? Bikini? Clearly not enough androgens and GH for fitness or figure.
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my question now is how d I quote someone here lol Thanks Bob I appreciate all the answers and feedback. I of course want all woman to be able to be able to compete and lift as they choose and have somewhere
do that. I personally love the idea of getting smaller and girls being more healthy and natural. Im genetically not a small girl so I will compete and place where I place ;)
theres a button on the upper right hand corner that says "quote" hit that one to "quote" someone.
and remember this isnt rx muscle! :)
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Top woman bodybuilders in the 80s. Which current division would they fit in? Bikini? Clearly not enough androgens and GH for fitness or figure.
they wouldnt place in a bikini show.
but wait! what are the judging guidelines for bikini? Bob can u answer this? Because the judging for bikini is all over the place. It seems like the judges just pick who they'd like to fuck the most.
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they wouldnt place in a bikini show.
but wait! what are the judging guidelines for bikini? Bob can u answer this? Because the judging for bikini is all over the place. It seems like the judges just pick who they'd like to fuck the most.
what other criteria should there be for a bikini contest? who has the sunniest personality? ???
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Interesting stuff.....
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they wouldnt place in a bikini show.
but wait! what are the judging guidelines for bikini? Bob can u answer this? Because the judging for bikini is all over the place. It seems like the judges just pick who they'd like to fuck the most.
Yeah, I can answer this easily.
First, using footage from the early 80's to try and draw a comparison is ridiculous....if we adjust for the changing of the times, then clearly these women would be suitable for the WPD....as they are in the clip...they would be in figure.
As in any sport, comparing athletes decades apart is unfair and doesnt necessarily compute...
Here is a shot of Gladys just a few years after that appearance on Regis...you tell me where she fits
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Top woman bodybuilders in the 80s. Which current division would they fit in? Bikini? Clearly not enough androgens and GH for fitness or figure.
haha, that is crazy
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The board of governors votes for the president ....question is, who didnt?
People love Jim Manion, as he has given a lot of people a great oppportunity to make a living from a sport we love...
Now answer my question...
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The board of governors votes....question is, who didnt?
People love Jim Manion, as he has given a lot of people a great oppportunity to make a living from a sport we love...
Now answer my question...
It's not a sport.
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I believe this look should be a great example of what the division should look like....
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So there's fitness (routine), figure (quarter turns), and physique (posing). Problem is, they all look the same. When the judges start to reward the harder, more muscular girls again, what will be the next move? Another division?
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Glad you're on board. , would be the key, as were looking to provide a platform that will promote women who like to train while preserving a healthy, athletic, feminine look. Women who feel like this would be a good fit, should be looking to not scale back the training in the gym, but rather the diet/ supplement programs....
Not to bust your balls , but the supplement they should be cutting back on is "Vitamin S" , right ;)
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if the fbbs have self respect they would leave and compete in the nabba universe
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if the fbbs have self respect they would leave and compete in the nabba universe
Bingo! I suspect they will now they are being phased out in the NPC and IFBB.
I won't buy any more night show tickets for pro or NPC that has more bikini and fitness than bodybuilding.
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I believe this look should be a great example of what the division should look like....
I agree and it should be the limit on the most amount of muscle a female competitor should carry.
Gladys, Mclish, etc is what a female bb should look like.
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Bingo! I suspect they will now they are being phased out in the NPC and IFBB.
I won't buy any more night show tickets for pro or NPC that has more bikini and fitness than bodybuilding.
Same here
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I agree and it should be the limit on the most amount of muscle a female competitor should carry.
Gladys, Mclish, etc is what a female bb should look like.
and the male bb should look like mark schenkenberg
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and the male bb should look like mark schenkenberg
Absolutely not.
There is a difference between a man and a woman.
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the nabba is a better federation anyway...they treat their competitors with respect
and they dont have the corupted judging like in the ifbb
I just checked out their web page and am thinking of doing a spring show with them :)
NABBA head , Bob Gruskin is a retired Prof of Biology from the Public Univ system in NY state.
Great guy, and while NABBA is a lot smaller than the NPC, I am looking for a new organization at this point.
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http://www.worldfitnessfederation.de/nabba/frame1/p6_uni09.html
add iris kyle to the list in 2011
and as the male bb find out how well the females are respected they will follow
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So there's fitness (routine), figure (quarter turns), and physique (posing). Problem is, they all look the same. When the judges start to reward the harder, more muscular girls again, what will be the next move? Another division?
They dont look the same, at all....
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http://www.worldfitnessfederation.de/nabba/frame1/p6_uni09.html
add iris kyle to the list in 2011
and as the male bb find out how well the females are respected they will follow
LOL
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They dont look the same, at all....
Once again, the big issue is that the NPC is and IFBB are no longer mostly about bodybuilding.
By next season most NPC national events and IFBB shows will be at least 80% NON bodybuilding stuff on stage.
Not my cup of tea.
* If they replace "those like me" at the night show finals fans with new bikini, fitness fans they will be a success. BUT, who knows?????
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They dont look the same, at all....
If you put Erin Stern, Adela Garcia, and Gladys Portuguese in a physique competition, none of them would look much different from the other.
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If you put Erin Stern, Adela Garcia, and Gladys Portuguese in a physique competition, none of them would look much different from the other.
The fitness girls and figure girls are only really seperated by routine, physiques arent supposed to look much different...
Erin and Sonia look totally different, and watching both classes, you can distinguish one from another very easily. The first year had some growing pains, but over th last year, I think the judges have done a pretty good job, and both classes have established themselves...
With anything new, there will be a learning period, as well as the fact that we (as a federation) can only judge whats in front of the panel...WP will be no different as it takes time to get an entire division together, as well as athletes to adjust
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If you put Erin Stern, Adela Garcia, and Gladys Portuguese in a physique competition, none of them would look much different from the other.
Bring back Ericca Kern, she has the (and had) the look I think Bob C is seeking for this new division
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http://www.worldfitnessfederation.de/nabba/frame1/p6_uni09.html
add iris kyle to the list in 2011
and as the male bb find out how well the females are respected they will follow
Those women still look a mess. I thought the point of "physique" was to tone it down.
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The fitness girls and figure girls are only really seperated by routine, physiques arent supposed to look much different... Erin and Sonia look totally different, and watching both classes, you can distinguish one from another very easily. The first year had some growing pains, but over th last year, I think the judges have done a pretty good job, and both classes have established themselves... With anything new, there will be a learning period, as well as the fact that we (as a federation) can only judge whats in front of the panel...WP will be no different as it takes time to get an entire division together, as well as athletes to adjust
::)
how hard can it be chick to build a catalog, how hard?
bikini - the apex bikini are girls who never touched the figure stage, are bikini from day one
jessica anderson
nate melo
amanda latona
jessica putnam
etc.
figure - it's about a women's structure, has nothing to do with shoulders. who the hell came up with that?
cheryl brown
old school anja langer
gladys portuguese
rachel mclish
cris alexander (go look at her hip to waist ratio)
you can add all the other BS like muscle, color, etc once you have structure down...because the girls with the hour glass structures just look good no matter what. anja langer is ALL GENETICS.
wpd - you have alot to work with here. i still say medina is the apex athlete...the right amt muscle, lines and beauty for her generation . then...you have monica brant, ava cowan, and others to come up with dfferent types.
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The fitness girls and figure girls are only really seperated by routine, physiques arent supposed to look much different...
Erin and Sonia look totally different, and watching both classes, you can distinguish one from another very easily. The first year had some growing pains, but over th last year, I think the judges have done a pretty good job, and both classes have established themselves...
With anything new, there will be a learning period, as well as the fact that we (as a federation) can only judge whats in front of the panel...WP will be no different as it takes time to get an entire division together, as well as athletes to adjust
Agreed, fitness and figure have essentially the same physique, which is similar to the new WPD (if it's like early '80s bodybuilding). Would you have had Sonia Gonzales winning the bikini? How did Amanda Latona finish so low in 5th? It was clear that the judges wanted a certain level of conditioning, even in bikini. And if facial beauty is judged, why isn't Dianna Dahlgren near the top?
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Agreed, fitness and figure have essentially the same physique, which is similar to the new WPD (if it's like early '80s bodybuilding). Would you have had Sonia Gonzales winning the bikini? How did Amanda Latona finish so low in 5th? It was clear that the judges wanted a certain level of conditioning, even in bikini. And if facial beauty is judged, why isn't Dianna Dahlgren near the top?
All those girls are hot..just a median scoring average by 11 judges.
Yes, they will look for a certain level of conditioning, even in bikini...has to be a line somewhere as it IS a physique competition still.
Agreed on Diana...beautiful
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Agreed, fitness and figure have essentially the same physique, which is similar to the new WPD (if it's like early '80s bodybuilding). Would you have had Sonia Gonzales winning the bikini? How did Amanda Latona finish so low in 5th? It was clear that the judges wanted a certain level of conditioning, even in bikini. And if facial beauty is judged, why isn't Dianna Dahlgren near the top?
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/14201/3763/d/culver01971269888270.jpg)
(http://www.hardfitness.com/emagazine/issue53/images/DSC_6753.jpg)
(http://www.hardbody.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/img_0701.jpg)
havent taken time to look at her but gonzales has changed her body from her figure days. the problem is figure -wpd. there isnt problem with fitness either...just based on their routine separating them.
the one thing i see is gonzales still has her arms from figure which are harder than latona or melo.
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The fitness girls and figure girls are only really seperated by routine, physiques arent supposed to look much different...
Erin and Sonia look totally different, and watching both classes, you can distinguish one from another very easily. The first year had some growing pains, but over th last year, I think the judges have done a pretty good job, and both classes have established themselves...
With anything new, there will be a learning period, as well as the fact that we (as a federation) can only judge whats in front of the panel...WP will be no different as it takes time to get an entire division together, as well as athletes to adjust
Ya know Bob I went to the Ky muscle show/expo, past 2 yrs, that had IFBB pro figure as the only IFBB pro division along with NPC bodybuilding and was fine with THAT. why? It had about 30 top quality figure pros and they did a round of them and then had a couple divisions of BB in between. The current format I saw at the NPC nationals was way too much bikini and figure. It dominated the night show finals.
I just don't think that format will hold the interest of serious BB fans like me.
Plus to me, the bikini is a joke and just a swimsuit fest. At least the figure requires some shape and muscle tone.
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Ya know Bob I went to the Ky muscle show/expo, past 2 yrs, that had IFBB pro figure as the only IFBB pro division along with NPC bodybuilding and was fine with THAT. why? It had about 30 top quality figure pros and they did a round of them and then had a couple divisions of BB in between. The current format I saw at the NPC nationals was way too much bikini and figure. It dominated the night show finals.
I just don't think that format will hold the interest of serious BB fans like me.
Plus to me, the bikini is a joke and just a swimsuit fest. At least the figure requires some shape and muscle tone.
Depends on the show you go to, Howie...you picked the Nationals, which has THE MOST amount of women competing. Loca l/ regional / even pro circuit shows arent even close to those numbers....
Besides, you need to come out to see the new division...
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Depends on the show you go to, Howie...you picked the Nationals, which has THEE MOST amount of women competing. LOcal/ regional/ even pro circuit shows arent even close to those numbers....
Besides, you need to come out to se the new division...
Thanks for the invite but I swear to GOD, all I can think of is THIS is where it is headed...GOD bless 'em hehehe
http://www.uspoledance.com LOL, I am keeping my sense of humor, and I still think you are a better MC then Lonnie Teper. ;)
Ya know Bob , I don't know why this bugs me more than any other thing done in BB, in over 30 yrs in the sport, this makes me want to finally say screw it and move on, sorry.
Ya know I always had mixed feelings about extreme steroid use ( legal reasons) and some of the judging criteria, BUT in the end it was always BODYBUILING.
Thanks for taking a few minutes at most shows to speak to me, I enjoyed that.
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I guess I'm missing what point you're trying to make....?
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I guess I'm missing what point you're trying to make....?
Hey Chick, if you use your connections to get me hooked up with a hot bikini babe, I will give it my full support. ;)
Take care and good luck my large friend.
I hope this works out for ya , but who knows.
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international IFBB amateur figure girls fucking SMOKE the fat, smooth, unmuscular (mistake them for bikini competitors) IFBB figure competitors in the USA
cough.......cough............Nicole Wilkins Lee
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this looks like a fucking bikini competitor to me, an out of shape bikini competitor actually
(http://api.ning.com/files/EtrxLNKi8nsxbTjRlBtHrmIQ2wX8CpYnCjSw9Tf0r7C0Yy0V-xPsSvoA4Un-PwJ0J3LYwAxSLxsPwmIZGrW6D5*-AGrhQ5JS/NicoleWilkinsLee.jpg)
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international IFBB amateur figure girls fucking SMOKE the fat, smooth, unmuscular (mistake them for bikini competitors) IFBB figure competitors in the USA
cough.......cough............Nicole Wilkins Lee
I agree with this statement- Also, one word- BODYFITNESS is an awesome class they have in Europe- kinda like a sexy slightly more muscular version of figure
Also- what I dnt understand is a lot of the NPC fig girls look a lot more complete, better conditioned and put together than IFBB Pro Fig- and they have that cool gold color sometimes
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Bodyfitness
see girl on left
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I agree with this statement- Also, one word- BODYFITNESS is an awesome class they have in Europe- kinda like a sexy slightly more muscular version of figure
Also- what I dnt understand is a lot of the NPC fig girls look a lot more complete, better conditioned and put together than IFBB Pro Fig- and they have that cool gold color sometimes
you are correct, what i dont understand is why do they keep the line SO DAMN close between bikini and figure............you would think with bikini around now, they would want to clearly delineate figure criteria and let them tighten up and add some mass
because right now........i have a hard time telling the difference........there were girls at the olympia who were completely interchangable and could have looked at home competing in fitness or figure
this girl is pretty much what figure should look like.........muscular, but not as dramatic as bodybuilder.,.............and a tad bit less hard , BUT NOT SMOOTH
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352472.0;attach=388056;image)
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When the criterion is about male likes and preferences then the sport is doomed. You need some objective criterion.
Look at the 'would you hit it' posts on Getbig. If the poster thinks the gal is hot he assumes that other guys will as well. That seldom happens and shows how each of us has different ideals about female beauty. I dare say the women have different ideals. The IFBB is hopelessly lost about the women's contests and have no clue about any of it.
Makes you wonder why any woman would want to enter such subjective pageants. They are hardly contests. I guess they want to transcend themselves and be recognized as a figure, bikini or whatever winner.
I seldom agree with unsung but he is right about the criteria being sexist. Of course, stooges like Bob C are way too thick to appreciate this. Look at how devotely he explains and defends the official propaganda about the new women's division.
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When the criterion is about male likes and preferences then the sport is doomed. You need some objective criterion.
Look at the 'would you hit it' posts on Getbig. If the poster thinks the gal is hot he assumes that other guys will as well. That seldom happens and shows how each of us has different ideals about female beauty. I dare say the women have different ideals. The IFBB is hopelessly lost about the women's contests and have no clue about any of it.
Makes you wonder why any woman would want to enter such subjective pageants. They are hardly contests. I guess they want to transcend themselves and be recognized as a figure, bikini or whatever winner.
I seldom agree with unsung but he is right about the criteria being sexist. Of course, stooges like Bob C are way too thick to appreciate this. Look at how devotely he explains and defends the official propaganda about the new women's division.
I like Bob , always did. BUT I am with you on this one Vince.
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female bodybuilding was the one division where the object isnt to be sexually attractive to the judges.......there are plenty of places for that
like it or not, FBB.....was where the true athletes went, who had a vision of where they want their body to be........it was the one place where gender role conventions were redefined by women who were 100% focused on the bodybuilding lifestyle (lets face it, you can give 70 percent and do well in figure) ............and living free from the behest of males telling them what they SHOULD look like
its a shame that these greedy sexist pigs, could not just let them have this,,,,,,one little thing........that stood irregardless of sex........one thing that was not patriarchal and exploitative
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When the criterion is about male likes and preferences then the sport is doomed. You need some objective criterion.
Look at the 'would you hit it' posts on Getbig. If the poster thinks the gal is hot he assumes that other guys will as well. That seldom happens and shows how each of us has different ideals about female beauty. I dare say the women have different ideals. The IFBB is hopelessly lost about the women's contests and have no clue about any of it.
Makes you wonder why any woman would want to enter such subjective pageants. They are hardly contests. I guess they want to transcend themselves and be recognized as a figure, bikini or whatever winner.
I seldom agree with unsung but he is right about the criteria being sexist. Of course, stooges like Bob C are way too thick to appreciate this. Look at how devotely he explains and defends the official propaganda about the new women's division.
Clueless as usual, ImBasile...
What leads you to believe there isnt perspective and input from women? Betty Pariso co-wrote this initiative with me, and supports it 100%. Also, the panel that voted on this has women on it...who were all in favor of it.
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female bodybuilding was the one division where the object isnt to be sexually attractive to the judges.......there are plenty of places for that
like it or not, FBB.....was where the true athletes went, who had a vision of where they want their body to be........it was the one place where gender role conventions were redefined by women who were 100% focused on the bodybuilding lifestyle (lets face it, you can give 70 percent and do well in figure) ............and living free from the behest of males telling them what they SHOULD look like
its a shame that these greedy sexist pigs, could not just let them have this,,,,,,one little thing........that stood irregardless of sex........one thing that was not patriarchal and exploitative
fucking parasites
See above post to ImBasile....
And you might want to consider a course in business 101, it might give you a better perspective of ROI and Supply and Demand...
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See above post to ImBasile....
And you might want to consider a course in business 101, it might give you a better perspective of ROI and Supply and Demand...
thats true, that is the place where your really have the conversation dead-to-rights
if toyota is making a model of vehicle that they are losing money on (for a long period of time)
who in their right mind would expect Toyota to continue producing the model,.........just cause an unjustifiably small group of people liked it
you definitely have me on this point..........
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So Bob was helping to draw up the women's rules. Just what a pro athletes rep should do. Leave that up to the philosophers. This guy has no clue. They will institute the new division and rules then play by ear. Bob will have to run backstage between MC roles to supervise the results. Only in the IFBB. When there is controversy he will explain that the athletes didn't understand what the judges were looking for. When they finally learn to cooperate things will be fine in the IFBB. All of which means: Do what Bob and the other jerks tell you to do.
If they were earnest about saving women's bodybuilding they would institute drug testing. No fake boobs. These two changes would see a big change in the bodies presenting at contests. Then do the same for the men. No fake boobs in any of the contests.
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Clueless as usual, ImBasile...
What leads you to believe there isnt perspective and input from women? Betty Pariso co-wrote this initiative with me, and supports it 100%. Also, the panel that voted on this has women on it...who were all in favor of it.
Bob you are Betty are class acts and I have a deep respect for both of you, but on this issue I feel you are wrong.
It is the right of the NPC/IFBB to decide to do this. It is also my right to boycott any IFBB/NPC events in the future.
AS you have said many times, it is fan base, ticket sales and $$$ that will dictate the success or failure of any sport. I am nothing much, but my support will go elsewhere.
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Bob you are Betty are class acts and I have a deep respect for both of you, but on this issue I feel you are wrong.
It is the right of the NPC/IFBB to decide to do this. It is also my right to boycott any IFBB/NPC events in the future.
AS you have said many times, it is fan base, ticket sales and $$$ that will dictate the success or failure of any sport.
I am nothing much, but my support will go elsewhere.
Just what do you feel is wrong? That we had women that also had a voice in whats going on??
As for your support, you can bring it where you wish...that's your prerogative (like Bobby Brown)....but dint you think you're being a bit hypocritical? No one says you have to support any of the other divisions, but why turn your back on BB? I, like you Howie, have been around more than 30 years in the biz....and I grew up being a BB fan as well as competitor....when they added FBB, I didn't care...had no impact on me and what I liked. When they added fitness, figure, and now bikini....I couldn't have cared either way, as it has never had any impact on me or my love for MY sport...
You should do what we do when were at shows and dint care for whats going on on stage at a given time....shoot the shit, make the rounds, talk shop with the other pro's/ fans....no one is forcing you to sit there through countless hours of competition you have no interest in....GET UP, MOVE AROUND, have some fun with other fans and fellow people in the business...
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So Bob was helping to draw up the women's rules. Just what a pro athletes rep should do. Leave that up to the philosophers.This guy has no clue. They will institute the new division and rules then play by ear. Bob will have to run backstage between MC roles to supervise the results. Only in the IFBB. When there is controversy he will explain that the athletes didn't understand what the judges were looking for. When they finally learn to cooperate things will be fine in the IFBB. All of which means: Do what Bob and the other jerks tell you to do. If they were earnest about saving women's bodybuilding they would institute drug testing. No fake boobs. These two changes would see a big change in the bodies presenting at contests. Then do the same for the men.
No fake boobs in any of the contests.
We get it, Basile...you dont like tits....great....move along now weirdo.
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I'm interested to see how this plays out....
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I think the supplementation gets all the negative credit for the rough and extreme look. What people don't understand is that the diuretics and extreme condition is what makes the look so extreme.
SIMPLE SOLUTION TO SAVING FBB
-DIURETICS TESTING
-WEIGHT CLASSES
Some of the offseason women are lusciously round and have amazing curves
Unfortunately, come contest time - they diet their ass and facial beauty off
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unfortunately, come contest time- they diet there ass and facial beauty off
the facial beauty of the new york pro winner
(http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_P8C4223.JPG)
double standard ?...
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Just what do you feel is wrong? That we had women that also had a voice in whats going on??
As for your support, you can bring it where you wish...that's your prerogative (like Bobby Brown)....but dint you think you're being a bit hypocritical? No one says you have to support any of the other divisions, but why turn your back on BB? I, like you Howie, have been around more than 30 years in the biz....and I grew up being a BB fan as well as competitor....when they added FBB, I didn't care...had no impact on me and what I liked. When they added fitness, figure, and now bikini....I couldn't have cared either way, as it has never had any impact on me or my love for MY sport...
You should do what we do when were at shows and dint care for whats going on on stage at a given time....shoot the shit, make the rounds, talk shop with the other pro's/ fans....no one is forcing you to sit there through countless hours of competition you have no interest in....GET UP, MOVE AROUND, have some fun with other fans and fellow people in the business...
Thanks for the sincere reply. Yes, I always do enjoy mingling at shows and talking shop with you and others I have known over the years. You and Betty Pariso are smart people and know bodybuilding. I shouldn't really let this bug me but it does. why? The real, root of the problem is EXTREME drug use. In my humble opinion without dealing with the drug issue it is all PR and bait and swtich. Thanks again for the repl.
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Betty Pariso
the bigger truth behind the new class:
betty pariso (none of the female fbbs voted her as their representive) decided to scale down... but she want to continue competing for figure (american ifbb style). But she is still to big (bonestructure)... so she created a new categorie that fits her interest.. She didnt make this in the name of the fbbs she should represent... She made it only in her name... for her very own reason. she should be replaced by somebody more capable
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I think the supplementation gets all the negative credit for the rough and extreme look
what people dnt understand is that the diuretics and extreme condition is what makes the look so extreme
NOT THAT THESE WOMEN HAVE PENORIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WELL ANYTHING.
SIMPLE SOLUTION TO SAVING FBB
-DIURETICS TESTING <,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AHAHAHAHA REALLY
-WEIGHT CLASSES
-CIRCUMCISIONS
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the bigger truth behind the new class:
betty pariso (none of the female fbbs voted her as their representive) decided to scale down...but she want to continue competing
for figure (american ifbb style) she is still to big (bonestructure)...she created a new categorie that fits her interest..she didnt make this in the name of the fbbs she should represent...she made it only in her name...for her very own reason
she should be replaced by somebody more capable
Nice senario, but totally wrong...
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Nice senario, but totally wrong...
In which name did betty make this ? The fbbs here didnt even know about... so for sure not in the name of the people she should speak
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sure ??
in which name did betty make this ?
the fbbs here didnt even know about...so for sure not in the name of the people she should speak
The FBBers have known about this since it's inception back in 1980....feel free to read the exerpt I posted, circa 1982.
We dont need to consult with 100 athletes to know that the ROI is zero, support is virtually zero, and numbers have fallen to an all time low...only need to look at the business side.
While Betty fully supports this, I was the one who wrote it up...irrelevant either way.
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, support is virtually zero, and numbers have fallen to an all time low...only need to look at the business side.
what has the ifbb done to market them ??
zero
dont blame the fbb
blame the organization
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what has the ifbb done to market them ??
zero
dont blame the fbb
blame the organization
Blame evryone, and no one...because that's who to blame.
Judges judge whats standing before them, athletes train to achieve what the judges are looking for, lose/ lose
bodybuilding is a progresive sport no different for men and women....there are arguments today that the MEN have takenit too far, too extreme.
BB is a nitche sport, that makes FBB a nitche of a nitche...sheer numbers arent possible enough to support it financially.
As for marketing them....market to WHO? You cant force people to like something, and the public (both mainstream AND people in the industry) do not accept the level achieved by the women...
anything else you need clarification on?
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As for marketing them....market to WHO? You cant force people to like something, and the public (both mainstream AND people in the industry) do not accept the level achieved by the women...
maybe you and the ifbb cant
maybe because they didnt want to
i did
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maybe you and the ifbb cant
maybe because they didnt want to
i did
Congratulations...
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sure ??
in which name did betty make this ?
the fbbs here didnt even know about...so for sure not in the name of the people she should speak
You mean the same Betty "I made my career and living being big now that I'm done I'll sell out the other FBB's" Pariso.
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You mean the same Betty "I made my career and living being big now that I'm done I'll sell out the other FBB's" Pariso.
The sport Betty entered, and the sport it has become are two different worlds. While she makes no excuses, and is proud of her accomplishments, she has seen things from many different perspectives over the years, one as a competing BB, one a contest prom oter, another as a representative of FBB...it's what FBB had devolved into that she hates, and is willing to take a stand. She is not alone, as you ASSUME that all FBB are on board with the status quo, I can assure you as someone who talks and interacts with hundreds of them from all over, this isnt the case....
Many of them absolutely hate doing what they feel they have to do in order to compete, and find themselves in a no win senario....you would be surpised at the numbers who are on board, support the movement, and cant wait to gt off the gear, keep the femininity, and be able to enjoy training/ competing again...all the while, opening up a whole new world of potential sponsorships, magazine coverage, business, acceptance, etc...
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another as a representative of FBB...
she never was a representive
I can assure you as someone who talks and interacts with hundreds of them from all over,
no fbb with a little self respect talks to you since you made your comment about fbb in flex magazine
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she never was a representive
no fbb with a little self respect talks to you since you made your comment about fbb in flex magazine
You keep telling yourself that, and I've had dozens of FBB applaud me for that article for ahving the balls to say what everyone else was thinking...
Funny thing is, this new division doesnt really have anything to do with the FBBers....just a sign of the times, and a different direction.
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The sport Betty entered, and the sport it has become are two different worlds. While she makes no excuses, and is proud of her accomplishments, she has seen things from many different perspectives over the years, one as a competing BB, one a contest prom oter, another as a representative of FBB...it's what FBB had devolved into that she hates, and is willing to take a stand. She is not alone, as you ASSUME that all FBB are on board with the status quo, I can assure you as someone who talks and interacts with hundreds of them from all over, this isnt the case....
Many of them absolutely hate doing what they feel they have to do in order to compete, and find themselves in a no win senario....you would be surpised at the numbers who are on board, support the movement, and cant wait to gt off the gear, keep the femininity, and be able to enjoy training/ competing again...all the while, opening up a whole new world of potential sponsorships, magazine coverage, business, acceptance, etc...
I'm as old as you and though not as involved as you Ive known many female bodybuilders as well. We will see when these same bodybuilders you speak of go clean and shrink and have to share the stage with prettier girls with simular smaller bodies. This new division is another beauty contest just with muscle.
The women that know they are not the "pretty girls" will also find out quickly they dont stand a chance. One last thing, whats the harm of having a few pro women BB shows attached to the other shows and lower the prize money for them? Base the prize money on the number of competitors that enter. Have a formula based on entry.
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Funny thing is, this new division doesnt really have anything to do with the FBBers....
I know... it was you who announced that it was dead... then jm saw the reaction he went back
and posted:
1) Fitness will be scored 2/3 Routine, 1/3 Physique.
2) Men’s Physique will begin in 2011 with an IFBB Professional League division in 2012. Men wear Board Shorts, are barefoot & will have a posing criteria & will come on stage individually & then brought out in groups. Any NPC promoter can have Men’s Physique with their competitions.
3) Women’s Physique will also begin in 2011, but will only be held with NPC national competitions. Tentatively starting with NPC Jr. Nationals then Team Universe, USA & Nationals. No local, state or regional competitions will have them in 2011. Also with an IFBB Professional League division in 2012. Details & rules still being worked out. But the competitors will be barefoot, no heels.
4) There will still be NPC Women’s Bodybuilding competitions.
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Betty should be the representive of the new class BUT SHE SHOULD BE REPLACED AS THE REPRESENTIVE OF FBB
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i know...it was you who announced the dead...as jm saw the reaction he went back
and posted :
1) Fitness will be scored 2/3 Routine, 1/3 Physique.
2) Men’s Physique will begin in 2011 with an IFBB Professional League division in 2012. Men wear Board Shorts, are barefoot & will have a posing criteria & will come on stage individually & then brought out in groups. Any NPC promoter can have Men’s Physique with their competitions.
3) Women’s Physique will also begin in 2011, but will only be held with NPC national competitions. Tentatively starting with NPC Jr. Nationals then Team Universe, USA & Nationals. No local, state or regional competitions will have them in 2011. Also with an IFBB Professional League division in 2012. Details & rules still being worked out. But the competitors will be barefoot, no heels.
4) There will still be NPC Women’s Bodybuilding competitions.
At least get what I say correct, I said the numbers have deteriorated to the point that it (FBB) may infact, phase ITSELF out....
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You should do what we do when were at shows and dint care for whats going on on stage at a given time....shoot the shit, make the rounds, talk shop with the other pro's/ fans....no one is forcing you to sit there through countless hours of competition you have no interest in....GET UP, MOVE AROUND, have some fun with other fans and fellow people in the business...
If you want to solve this problem, stop combining men's and women's shows. If bikini and the new physique division are so well liked and supported by the "industry", then they should be able to sell enough tickets to have their own show. The women can have as many divisions as they like and no one will complain, except the FBB'ers who have no where to compete.
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If you want to solve this problem, stop combining men's and women's shows. If bikini and the new physique division are so well liked and supported by the "industry", then they should be able to sell enough tickets to have their own show. The women can have as many divisions as they like and no one will complain, except the FBB'ers who have no where to compete.
They have some of those, at the NPC level...at the pro level, it has been tried. It's not realistic for a number of reasons...sponsors not wanting to spend twice the money to get to the same amount of people being one...
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They have some of those, at the NPC level...at the pro level, it has been tried. It's not realistic for a number of reasons...sponsors not wanting to spend twice the money to get to the same amount of people being one...
The Arnold still has the men and women separate. You have to think of the fans at some point.
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The Arnold still has the men and women separate. You have to think of the fans at some point.
The Arnold and Olympia are exceptions for about a hundred reasons.... the EXPO has the vendors and the fans attending
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If you want to solve this problem, stop combining men's and women's shows. If bikini and the new physique division are so well liked and supported by the "industry", then they should be able to sell enough tickets to have their own show. The women can have as many divisions as they like and no one will complain, except the FBB'ers who have no where to compete.
Spot on. These guys know it will crash and burn but they want hot chicks around so instead they are are trying to get rid of the "non pretty" FBB's.
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The Arnold and Olympia are exceptions for about a hundred reasons....the EXPO has the vendors and the fans attending
The Olympia is no longer in the same league as the Arnold. The Olympia has already sold out and combines men's and women's shows.
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The Olympia is no longer in the same league as the Arnold. The Olympia has already sold out and combines men's and women's shows.
Geez...thats too bad.
Oh well...here is a schedule for this coming ASC....enjoy!
Schedule of EventsThursday, March 3Friday, March 4Saturday, March 5Sunday, March 6Thursday, March 3, 2011Veterans Memorial7 p.m.
Arnold Amateur Fitness, Figure & Bikini Prejudging
AUDITORIUM
GENERAL ADMISSION - $25
Ticket And Other InformationEXPO Tickets. Adults: $10 per day in advance; $15 per day at the door. 10 years and under FREE if accompanied by an adult.
Admission includes total access to the Arnold Fitness EXPO March 4-6
Tickets available at www.ticketmaster.com/arnold
Tickets available at Greater Columbus Convention Center March 4-6.
Tickets available at Veterans Memorial March 3-6
Tickets available at Nationwide Arena Box Office on Sunday, March 6 only
NO STROLLERS ALLOWED
Friday, March 4, 2011Greater Columbus Convention Center8 a.m. – Noon
Arnold Amateur Strongman Competition
HALL C
8 a.m. – 6 p.m.
Arnold Strength Training Summit
All Day Registration
C210-216 (2nd Floor)
8 a.m. – 7 p.m.
USA Powerlifting Championships
Raw Challenge
E160s and E170s
8 a.m. – 10 p.m.
Gymnastics Challenge
Compulsory and Optional
HALLS E and F
8:30 a.m. – 4 pm
Art At The Arnold
Model Drawing and Painting
CONNECTOR BETWEEN CONVENTION CENTER and HYATT HOTEL
9 a.m. – 6 p.m.
CrossFit
GRAND BALLROOM
9 a.m. - 8 p.m.
Table Tennis Challenge
TERRACE BALLROOM (2nd Floor) and E160’s & E170’s
9 a.m. – 9 p.m.
Weightlifting Championships
Arnold International Weightlifting Invitational Masters
(All Sessions) & Open Division (Initial Sessions)
C110-C115
9 a.m. – 11 p.m.
Active Living Festival
Senior Olympic Table Tennis Finals, Pickle Ball and Fencing
Friday Night Dance Party 7 p.m. – 11 p.m
HYATT REGENCY BALLROOM (doors open at 8:30 am)
10 a.m. – 5:00 p.m.
CrossFit Kids
E150-151
10:30 a.m. – 6 p.m.
Arnold Fitness EXPO
Entertainment / Contests begin and continue throughout the day
Arnold Fitness EXPO STAGE
Armwrestling Preliminaries
All Classes 10:30 a.m. – Noon
Ms. International, Fitness International and Figure International Prejudging
Noon – 2 p.m.
Arnold Strongman Classic
2 p.m. – 5 p.m.
Noon – 7 p.m.
Cheerleading and Dance
Competitor Registration Noon – 3 p.m.
Competition 3 p.m. - 7 p.m.
BATTELLE GRAND
Noon – 8:45 p.m.
Arnold Fencing Classic
Wheelchair Events Noon – 2:30 p.m.
Veteran Events 4:30 p.m. – 8:45 p.m.
HYATT REGENCY (1st Floor near Food Court)
Noon – 10 p.m.
Boxing Championships / Martial Arts Festival / Arnold Grappling Championships
Martial Arts Registration Noon – 10 p.m. at Holiday Inn Downtown
Boxing Registration 5 p.m . – 9 p.m. at Holiday Inn Downtown
Grappling Registration 5 p.m. – 10 p.m. at Holiday Inn Downtown
Noon -- 3 p.m.
MMA Workshop
HALL C
Veterans Memorial
9 a.m. – 12 p.m.
Arnold Amateur Men's & Women's Bodybuilding Prejudging and Figure Masters Finals
AUDITORIUM
GENERAL ADMISSION - $25
9 a.m. – 9 p.m.
Archery Competition
Ohio NASP State Tournament
NORTH HALL
7 p.m.
Ms. International, Fitness International and Figure International Finals
AUDITORIUM
RESERVED SEATING -- $50 and $75
Arena Grand Movie TheaterTBD
Arnold Sports Film Festival
LC Pavilion8 p.m.
Amateur MMA Festival
DOORS OPEN AT 7 P.M. -- $30 thru $60
Ticket And Other InformationEXPO Tickets. Adults: $10 per day in advance; $15 per day at the door. 10 years and under FREE if accompanied by an adult.
Admission includes total access to the Arnold Fitness EXPO March 4-6
Tickets available at www.ticketmaster.com/arnold
Tickets available at Greater Columbus Convention Center March 4-6.
Tickets available at Veterans Memorial March 3-6
Tickets available at Nationwide Arena Box Office on Sunday, March 6 only
NO STROLLERS ALLOWED
Saturday, March 5, 2011
Greater Columbus Convention Center
7:30 a.m. – 8 p.m.
Boxing Championships / Martial Arts Festival / Arnold Grappling Championships (Adults)
Boxing and Martial Arts Registration 7:30 am Room C120
Competition begins at 9 a.m.
Grappling Registration 8 a.m. Room C122
Rules Meeting 10 a.m.
HALL C
8 a.m. – 4 p.m.
USA Powerlifting Championships
American Pro Invitational
E160s and E170s
8 a.m. – 6 p.m.
Arnold Strength Training Summit
Morning Registration
C210-216 (2nd Floor)
8 a.m. – 6 p.m.
Youth DanceSport Classic
Featuring: Competition between U.S. and Canadian
Dance Couples
HYATT REGENCY BALLROOM
8 a.m. – 6 p.m.
Cheerleading and Dance
Competitor Registration 8 a.m. – Noon;
Competition 8 a.m. – 6 p.m.
BATTELLE GRAND
8 a.m. – 8 p.m.
Table Tennis Challenge
TERRACE BALLROOM (2nd Floor) and E160’s & E170’s
8 a.m. – 8:30 p.m.
Arnold Fencing Classic
Regional Youth Circuit – Foil, Epee and Sabre
Cadet Open – Foil, Epee and Sabre
Try Fencing At The Arnold 11 a.m. – 4 p.m.
HYATT REGENCY – DELAWARE / FRANKLIN / UNION ROOMS
8 a.m. – 10 p.m.
Gymnastics Challenge
Compulsory and Optional; International
Athlete Exhibition and Opening Celebration at Noon
HALLS E and F
8:30 a.m. – 4 p.m.
Art At The Arnold
All Day Studio Work Session
CONNECTOR BETWEEN CONVENTION CENTER AND HYATT HOTEL
9 a.m. – 6 p.m.
CrossFit
GRAND BALLROOM
9 a.m. – 5 p.m.
CrossFit Kids
E150-151
9 a.m. – 6 p.m.
Arnold Fitness EXPO
Entertainment / Contests begin and continue throughout the day
Arnold Fitness EXPO Stage
Armwrestling Finals
9 a.m. – 10 a.m.
Arnold Amateur Men’s & Women’s Bodybuilding, Fitness, Figure & Bikini Finals
10 a.m. – 1:30 p.m.
Cheerleading
1:30 p.m. – 1:45 p.m
Arnold Strongman Classic
1:45 p.m. – 4:45 p.m.
GNC Pro Performance International Deadlift Championship
4:45 p.m. – 6 p.m.
9 a.m. – 9 p.m.
Weightlifting Championships
Arnold Champions of Tomorrow – School Age and Junior Divisions (Initial Sessions)
Arnold International Weightlifting Invitational (FINALS)
Pan-Am Qualifier
C110-115
Veterans Memorial
9 a.m. – 6 p.m.
Skateboarding
Top Shop Contest and Blueprint Skateboards
Professional Demo
NORTH HALL
Noon – 2 pm
23rd Arnold Classic and Bikini International Prejudging
AUDITORIUM
RESERVED SEATING - $50
7 p.m. – 10 p.m.
23rd Arnold Classic and Bikini International Finals
Arnold Strongman Classic Finals
AUDITORIUM
RESERVED SEATING $50 and $100
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7 p.m. – 10 p.m.
23rd Arnold Classic and Bikini International Finals
Arnold Strongman Classic Finals
AUDITORIUM
RESERVED SEATING $50 and $100
Great, the Arnold has caved as well. The women are no longer anything but window dressing for men's bodybuilding.
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Ballroom Dancing Competition at 9am? Way too early.....
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Great, the Arnold has caved as well. The women are no longer anything but window dressing for men's bodybuilding.
What is all this "caved" and "sold out" talk..? It's called progressing and moving with the times, especially from a business perspective....much like I said to Howie...no one duct tapes you into the seat and forces you to sit through the whole show...GET UP, MOVE AROUND..enjoy the experience.
The women have their place, and their fans...and they are a welcomed part of the BB sport...
BB has expanded, evolved and has increased it's money flow many times over due to expanding the brand....this has allowed for prize money to go up, more opportunities to be created and ultimately, more athletes able to make a living from something that was never intended to be a full time position...
Take a breath and enjoy, bro! 10,000 chicks in bikini's isnt all that bad...trust me ;)
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The sport Betty entered, and the sport it has become are two different worlds. While she makes no excuses, and is proud of her accomplishments, she has seen things from many different perspectives over the years, one as a competing BB, one a contest prom oter, another as a representative of FBB...it's what FBB had devolved into that she hates, and is willing to take a stand. She is not alone, as you ASSUME that all FBB are on board with the status quo, I can assure you as someone who talks and interacts with hundreds of them from all over, this isnt the case....
Many of them absolutely hate doing what they feel they have to do in order to compete, and find themselves in a no win senario....you would be surpised at the numbers who are on board, support the movement, and cant wait to gt off the gear, keep the femininity, and be able to enjoy training/ competing again...all the while, opening up a whole new world of potential sponsorships, magazine coverage, business, acceptance, etc...
For me Bob on a personal level it has more to do with a reduction in bodybuilding and increase in NON bodybuilding events at an IFBB/NPC event now . I don't have any probelms with bikini girls or figure, etc. They could have a female FARTING divsion for all I care.
I go to a bodybuilding event to see mostly bodybuilding. If they throw in a few extra things, fine, so long as the majority of the show is BODYBUILING. Plus, I have no faith in David Pecker or AMI to do the right thing for the sport of bodybuilding to be blunt about it.
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Bob - what is pickle ball?
BTW, I spoke to a former FBB (retired pro), this new division raised her interest more than than a glass of the best chardonnay from Sonoma did...
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For me Bob on a personal level it has more to do with a reduction in bodybuilding and increase in NON bodybuilding events at an IFBB/NPC event now . I don't have any probelms with bikini girls or figure, etc. They could have a female FARTING divsion for all I care.
I go to a bodybuilding event to see mostly bodybuilding. If they throw in a few extra things, fine, so long as the majority of the show is BODYBUILING.
Plus, I have no faith in David Pecker or AMI to do the right thing for the sport of bodybuilding to be blunt about it.
Gotta be honest, Howie...David Pecker and AMI purchased and run the publications, not the NPC or IFBB...they dont have anything to do with rules, regulations, or any other means or ways about the sport itself...
If you doint like what the magazines have become/ are...then thats an issue directly related to Pecker/ AMI....anything else falls under Jim Manion/ Weider Family
These other events. etc are what help FUND our beloved bodybuilding...we could have been extinct some time ago without changing with the times and being open to expanding the brand...
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Bob - what is pickle ball
??
BTW, I spoke to a former FBB (retired pro), this new division raised her interest more than than a glass of the best chardonnay from Sonoma did...
Allright...as it has many. Lots of women have retired as a result of not liking where the sport has gone and the look it lends to...
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Gotta be honest, Howie...David Pecker and AMI purchased and run the publications, not the NPC or IFBB...they dont have anything to do with rules, regulations, or any other means or ways about the sport itself...
If you doint like what the magazines have become/ are...then thats an issue directly related to Pecker/ AMI....anything else falls under Jim Manion/ Weider Family
These other events. etc are what help FUND our beloved bodybuilding...we could have been extinct some time ago without changing with the times and being open to expanding the brand...
Extinct? Maybe the women's side. Men's BB has been tripping all over itself for 20 years and they're still drawing a good crowd at the large shows. It's not because the brand expanded, it's because of the diehards who faithfully attend all these shows. You have to be fan friendly to the group who is the meat and potatoes of the audience. Figure or bikini is a nice side show, but it shouldn't be the majority of a BODYBUILDING show.
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Extinct? Maybe the women's side. Men's BB has been tripping all over itself for 20 years and they're still drawing a good crowd at the large shows. It's not because the brand expanded, it's because of the diehards who faithfully attend all these shows. You have to be fan friendly to the group who is the meat and potatoes of the audience. Figure or bikini is a nice side show, but it shouldn't be the majority of a BODYBUILDING show.
Please bro...I've been to more shws than just about anybody...many of these shows would be dead in the water, from the NPC to the IFBB circuit shows. Yes, the biggest shows would survive, but they're exceptions...
The fans have MUCH more to go and see than in years past, complete with supplement companies giving out free samples, lots of industry info, entertainment, etc...It's still BB, just with a whole lot of other stuff for the many people that attend...
Like I said, we support what we want to support...no one has a gun at anyones head to sit thre and watch....
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2weeks ago I went to a state npc show. The bikini and figure was first at prejudging and it took 3hrs to get thru 11 classes!! Now they hadnt even started the mens prejudge......teen, masters, novice classes........gawd, 5 hrs in and the open classes started. I had freinds in heavyweight and supers so it was 6hrs later to see them!!!!!!! Everyone waas pissed and starving in the audience.
The girls need their own shows.....
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2weeks ago I went to a state npc show. The bikini and figure was first at prejudging and it took 3hrs to get thru 11 classes!! Now they hadnt even started the mens prejudge......teen, masters, novice classes........gawd, 5 hrs in and the open classes started. I had freinds in heavyweight and supers so it was 6hrs later to see them!!!!!!! Everyone waas pissed and starving in the audience.
The girls need their own shows.....
Amen. And if they can't have their own shows, at least have definitive starting times for each division throughout the day (written on the ticket), so there is a schedule to follow. As Bob says, you can attend the portions you're there to support.
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The sport Betty entered, and the sport it has become are two different worlds. While she makes no excuses, and is proud of her accomplishments, she has seen things from many different perspectives over the years, one as a competing BB, one a contest prom oter, another as a representative of FBB...it's what FBB had devolved into that she hates, and is willing to take a stand. She is not alone, as you ASSUME that all FBB are on board with the status quo, I can assure you as someone who talks and interacts with hundreds of them from all over, this isnt the case....
Many of them absolutely hate doing what they feel they have to do in order to compete, and find themselves in a no win senario....you would be surpised at the numbers who are on board, support the movement, and cant wait to gt off the gear, keep the femininity, and be able to enjoy training/ competing again...all the while, opening up a whole new world of potential sponsorships, magazine coverage, business, acceptance, etc...
So Bob(Chick), as a short(not even five feet) LW bodybuilder that just turned pro, I was really looking foward to competing at the pro level. If we downsize will this catagorie work for us. I keep hearing that even if the fbb downsizes the WPD won't be for us we will still be too big. I would love not to have that sucked up face look, I love getting lean but would definitly have a fuller face if I didn't get as super shredded as I do. I would post a pic but don't know if I want feed back from all.
Claire O'Connell
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I like this idea of the new division. As I have stated in other threads, there are a great deal of female bodybuilding competitors that have complained that they don't want to be all muscular, that symmetry and conditioning should count. A lot of these competitors, especially in the local NPC area, are already willing the enter this new division.
A lot of complaints were there for fitness, figure and bikini too. Yet, they are doing quite well.
As for myself, I enjoy the mixture at the contests.
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So Bob(Chick), as a short(not even five feet) LW bodybuilder that just turned pro, I was really looking foward to competing at the pro level. If we downsize will this catagorie work for us. I keep hearing that even if the fbb downsizes the WPD won't be for us we will still be too big. I would love not to have that sucked up face look, I love getting lean but would definitly have a fuller face if I didn't get as super shredded as I do. I would post a pic but don't know if I want feed back from all.
Claire O'Connell
I don't think the WPD is for you Claire ,you look like a dude no offense.
(http://www.bodybuilders.com/rohrbacker3.jpg)
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So Bob(Chick), as a short(not even five feet) LW bodybuilder that just turned pro, I was really looking foward to competing at the pro level. If we downsize will this catagorie work for us. I keep hearing that even if the fbb downsizes the WPD won't be for us we will still be too big. I would love not to have that sucked up face look, I love getting lean but would definitly have a fuller face if I didn't get as super shredded as I do. I would post a pic but don't know if I want feed back from all.
Claire O'Connell
No one one can say in a blanket statement,that a GROUP of people will or wont fit in...it's up to the individual to display the physique that will fit into the criteria...lots of room for most women to be able to do it....and yes, the lighter girls ill have the best chance for obvious reasons.
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I don't think the WPD is for you Claire ,you look like a dude no offense.
wow that is an old picture, lets at least put up a recent pictures even if I do look like a dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) ::) ;D
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No one one can say in a blanket statement,that a GROUP of people will or wont fit in...it's up to the individual to display the physique that will fit into the criteria...lots of room for most women to be able to do it....and yes, the lighter girls ill have the best chance for obvious reasons.
But basically what everyone is saying is unless you are a beauty queen naturally we are shit out of luck. sounds to me like most aren't even going to give a female bodybuilder the opportunity to change her physique. most are looking at our pictures and judging on what we have brought to the stage because that is what the judges wanted. most have only seens us completely dieted down, to lean, sucked up face. how do they know what we will look like if we do downsize, keep a softer look, don't get so hard looking, have a softer face. some of us may not be beauty queens but some of us fbb are cute when we are a bit softer. My question Chick are we even going to be givin a CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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But basically what everyone is saying is unless you are a beauty queen naturally we are shit out of luck. sounds to me like most aren't even going to give a female bodybuilder the opportunity to change her physique. most are looking at our pictures and judging on what we have brought to the stage because that is what the judges wanted. most have only seens us completely dieted down, to lean, sucked up face. how do they know what we will look like if we do downsize, keep a softer look, don't get so hard looking, have a softer face. some of us may not be beauty queens but some of us fbb are cute when we are a bit softer. My question Chick are we even going to be givin a CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have to consider who "most" you keep referring to, really are....
NONE of them are judges...and we have yet to even have a show....RELAX!
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To clarify a point....people keep asking me about these "declining numbers"....here is a recent example:
Jon Lindsay (NPC Promoter) has a show tomorrow
NPC/ IFBB PRO Figure
160+ in the show
100 are NPC Bikini and Figure
2 are FBB
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You have to consider who "most" you keep referring to, really are....
NONE of them are judges...and we have yet to even have a show....RELAX!
Ok I will relax because I can adjust my physique, I started competing as a bodybuilder when I was a teenager back in the 80's then took 15 years off from competition but not from some kind of weight lifting and exercise so I finally make my goal of pro this year and now the rug is being pulled out from us female bodybuilders, so yeah I am a little worried. I truly love this sport and I honestly don't mind the idea of a more classic physique but for someone to call me a dude(I purposely didn't post a pic) when they are only looking at a competition pic, well that sucks. here I will post pics from that same year months after the one where Che posted where he called me a dude, I honestly don't believe that word applies to the offseason photos or a more softer look.
And why can't we keep the word bodybuilding, why not call it Classic Bodybuilding. We are bodybuilders.
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Woman....no male hormones added.
(http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/105201d1238456945-pretty-girl-thread-cassia_riley_003.jpg)
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Woman....no male hormones added.
(http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/105201d1238456945-pretty-girl-thread-cassia_riley_003.jpg)
yes, as a bodybuilder, i respect other bodybuilders regardless of their gender
that being said
hormones tend to do bad things to women.......the voice get harsh, the face gets harsh, the skin gets harsh, the hair get brittle, other "things" change dimension
the fitness and figure chicks take plenty of shit, winny, anavar, clen, hgh........thats pretty much where it should end
but the FBB's are into pure androgens now, test is a male sex hormone............just like when a tranny takes estrogen and progesterone to look more feminine..........female bodybuilders really are changing their gender and that has no appeal to anyone outside a circle of creepy freaks
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why not call it Classic Bodybuilding.
Sounds like a good name, but Women's Physique is the one that was chosen.
Ok I will relax because I can adjust my physique,
Claire, the pics you have that are not completely too muscular look good, and of course, you have a chance. I remember that type of physique in early 90's, and also that type of physique is more prelavant in local contests. I like those pics better, and so do many who think that symmetry and overall physique matters more in women's bb than muscularity.
I truly love this sport and I honestly don't mind the idea of a more classic physique but for someone to call me a dude when they are only looking at a competition pic, well that sucks
Yes it does suck, because when some female bb are so muscular, with the voice change, and facial changes with the sucked up look, mainstream people tend to view it negatively. But like you, many female bb competitors like the idea of a more classic physique and welcome the change to look 'less' muscular.
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To clarify a point....people keep asking me about these "declining numbers"....here is a recent example:
Jon Lindsay (NPC Promoter) has a show tomorrow
NPC/ IFBB PRO Figure
160+ in the show
100 are NPC Bikini and Figure
2 are FBB
I could care less how many are in the "show", how many are in the audience? How many are new to the audience? How many are repeat schmoes?
Bodydoping is not something the general population is even remotely interested in and all because it is quite disgusting given the drugged up male and "female" competitors. No one I know would even entertain the idea of attending a bodydoping show and why should they? Fake muscles, fake hair and fake tans do not a healthy image promote.
It is not a sport, not in the most far-ranging sense of the word. It is a highly subjective endeavor judged by (given the current state of bodydoping) and for weirdos. And for the record, why would a woman desire to look like a man?
If any man took estrogen and got breast and butt implants, wore makeup and paraded around like they thought the were a woman what would you call them? A dissolutioned, fugly, transvestite and that would be polite.
The idiots that perpetrate this human dross on the world, this flotsam of fake muscles and masculine "women" are responsible for taking what was once a health conscious pastime and making a mockery of it. Those that participate in this display of stupidity are responsible for their own actions. They are fake, fugly, look like burn victims with severe infections and all that for a trophy that won't hold the front door open when the wind blows hard.
I suppose a career in "female" wrestling/boxing films or male thongoloid "lifestyle" presentations is the best these extra chromosome endowed "athletes" can expect. Cretins the lot of them. Nothing less than sickening licentious cultural philistines attend their displays of aritificial physiques.
Their health, such as it is , will most definately decline with the passage of years, as will their salability to schomes/schmoettes.
Keep it up, IFBB and NPC. Like the WNBA, no one of any importance really cares. You know, the people with money. The public. The ones that attend real sporting events like football or soccer games. There is nothing remotely athletic about these things, male or "female". What they have to offer is nothing more than a facade.
And as for calling something "Classic" bodybuilding, it has to have class to begin with. Sorry. No how, no way.
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I could care less how many are in the "show", how many are in the audience? How many are new to the audience? How many are repeat schmoes?
Bodydoping is not something the general population is even remotely interested in and all because it is quite disgusting given the drugged up male and "female" competitors. No one I know would even entertain the idea of attending a bodydoping show and why should they? Fake muscles, fake hair and fake tans do not a healthy image promote.
It is not a sport, not in the most far-ranging sense of the word. It is a highly subjective endeavor judged by (given the current state of bodydoping) and for weirdos. And for the record, why would a woman desire to look like a man?
If any man took estrogen and got breast and butt implants, wore makeup and paraded around like they thought the were a woman what would you call them? A dissolutioned, fugly, transvestite and that would be polite.
The idiots that perpetrate this human dross on the world, this flotsam of fake muscles and masculine "women" are responsible for taking what was once a health conscious pastime and making a mockery of it. Those that participate in this display of stupidity are responsible for their own actions. They are fake, fugly, look like burn victims with severe infections and all that for a trophy that won't hold the front door open when the wind blows hard.
I suppose a career in "female" wrestling/boxing films or male thongoloid "lifestyle" presentations is the best these extra chromosome endowed "athletes" can expect. Cretins the lot of them. Nothing less than sickening licentious cultural philistines attend their displays of aritificial physiques.
Their health, such as it is , will most definately decline with the passage of years, as will their salability to schomes/schmoettes.
Keep it up, IFBB and NPC. Like the WNBA, no one of any importance really cares. You know, the people with money. The public. The ones that attend real sporting events like football or soccer games. There is nothing remotely athletic about these things, male or "female". What they have to offer is nothing more than a facade.
And as for calling something "Classic" bodybuilding, it has to have class to begin with. Sorry. No how, no way.
I tend to agree with this post.
Most of the people I know who were into it in the early 1990's: Going to shows, knowing different BB's by name, into the whole culture are disgusted and no longer really support the sport and may just check in now and again.
I was never into the whole female bodybuilder look. I thought Cory Everson looked great and I liked Lenda Murray, but I didn't want to look like them. Most of the male BB's I knew back in the day didn't like the way they looked either from an attraction standpoint.
This entire industry seems to have gone past the point of no return. If you watched the Lee Haney interview he was doing nothing but telling the truth. There is no presentation and no class. The competitors (male and female) look a mess for the most part.
I remember in the 90's I was so inspired by the female fitness competitors. I loved Amy Fadhli, Marla Duncan, Monica Brant, Mia Finnegan, Brandi Carrier, etc. I read everything I could get my hands on about them, but now I pick up Oxygen and look at the Figure competitors and shake my head.
The men....Well I've made it pretty clear that in a sitaution where men are basically naked and showing their bodies off, straight women should be turned on. They aren't. Except for maybe the really old ones.
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But basically what everyone is saying is unless you are a beauty queen naturally we are shit out of luck. sounds to me like most aren't even going to give a female bodybuilder the opportunity to change her physique. most are looking at our pictures and judging on what we have brought to the stage because that is what the judges wanted. most have only seens us completely dieted down, to lean, sucked up face. how do they know what we will look like if we do downsize, keep a softer look, don't get so hard looking, have a softer face. some of us may not be beauty queens but some of us fbb are cute when we are a bit softer. My question Chick are we even going to be givin a CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as in every beautycontest , that doesnt have clear written guidelines it will help a lot with your placings to have sex with the judges
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as in every beautycontest , that doesnt have clear written guidelines it will help a lot with your placings to have sex with the judges
Yeah, yeah - sounds like a typical complain of a jilted boyfriend whose girl did not place well at a contest. How about being in shape for your division. Each division has its own criteria. At the NPC Nationals, after the contest, one competitor waited to hear why she didn't place well, and when told the truth, started tearing up. Asking advice is hard, especially if you get the real answer and not the one that that you want to hear.
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Yeah, yeah - sounds like a typical complain of a jilted boyfriend whose girl did not place well at a contest. How about being in shape for your division. Each division has its own criteria. At the NPC Nationals, after the contest, one competitor waited to hear why she didn't place well, and when told the truth, started tearing up. Asking advice is hard, especially if you get the real answer and not the one that that you want to hear.
::) ::)
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I agree with all you have said Ron, thanks for listening to my rant. :) ;D
Sounds like a good name, but Women's Physique is the one that was chosen.
Claire, the pics you have that are not completely too muscular look good, and of course, you have a chance. I remember that type of physique in early 90's, and also that type of physique is more prelavant in local contests. I like those pics better, and so do many who think that symmetry and overall physique matters more in women's bb than muscularity.
Yes it does suck, because when some female bb are so muscular, with the voice change, and facial changes with the sucked up look, mainstream people tend to view it negatively. But like you, many female bb competitors like the idea of a more classic physique and welcome the change to look 'less' muscular.
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I agree with all you have said Ron, thanks for listening to my rant. :) ;D
Claire ,how often do you shave your face?
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Where is Women's Bodybuilding going ?
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::)
what a bunch of BS!!!
sonia gonzales wins bikini with arms harder than any figure girl. yeah...softness ::)
ops... she's in those siren JMM comics or whatever? who is she signed with... JMM?
how in the world a PURE, never had anything to do with a figure show, bikini girl didnt win the 1ST EVER BIKINI OLYMPIA?
Nate Melo - the front runner coming into the O but her ass, which gives her uniqueness, all of a sudden becomes a problem at the O. ::)
Amando Latona - her placing was a joke. did she turn down an offer from JMM... given her connection to JC
Chavez...
i leave adela out since she is fitness and hasnt beat tanji in 2 yrs in the fitness round. ::)
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I know... it was you who announced that it was dead... then jm saw the reaction he went back
and posted:
1) Fitness will be scored 2/3 Routine, 1/3 Physique.
Clearly not the case or Adela would not have beaten Tanji at the Olympia.
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Claire ,how often do you shave your face?
Well Che since I am not marketable, and don't make any money from this sport, I obviously can't afford razors, so I guess the answer would be never. So damn why don't I have a super ass long ass beard.
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Well Che since I am not marketable, and don't make any money from this sport, I obviously can't afford razors, so I guess the answer would be never. So damn why don't I have a super ass long ass beard.
Mainstream is brutal on women's bodybuilding, unfortunately. But with Women's Physique, I think it is going to do quite nicely. Wouldn't it be great to focus on overall physique instead of just worrying how big muscles are going to be. The girls I have talked to like this move on less muscularity.
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Well Che since I am not marketable, and don't make any money from this sport, I obviously can't afford razors, so I guess the answer would be never. So damn why don't I have a super ass long ass beard.
A depilatory is quite common for cases such as this. Perhaps a more permanent treatment such as laser hair removal? By the way, given those photographs of you posted here, why in the name of the Buddha do you want to look like a man?
Outwardly, your body is no longer remotely reminiscent to that of a woman, to say otherwise is to fool no one. You are doing your best to remove every vestige of femininity from your body. Outside of dykes, schomes and others of such ilk, no one thinks it is attractive, much less healthy. But you already know that, don't you?
There is nothing wrong in being fit, but being fit to be tied? Yuck! By the way, that term is derived from days gone by with nothing to do with perversity's such as bondage. Instead it refers to the fact that people in a state of bedlam were often bound (i.e., tied) to prevent them from harming themselves or others.
I despise what has happened to bodybuilding.
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all bodybuilding male and female is a fucking joke...
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Mainstream is brutal on women's bodybuilding, unfortunately. But with Women's Physique, I think it is going to do quite nicely. Wouldn't it be great to focus on overall physique instead of just worrying how big muscles are going to be. The girls I have talked to like this move on less muscularity.
To be succinct, the real world, i.e., outside the weirdness that is the current state of bodybuilding is brutally honest with regard to the physiques present by both male and "female" bodybuilders. Why? They are disgusting.
Now then, I doubt that few from the real world are going to attend a "Women's Physique" competition. It will be primarily viewed by fellow enthusiasts and perhaps family and friends and there is nothing wrong with that. But why this is so often the case? Like male bodybuilding comparisons (note, not "competitions") it is not a sport. It is, for the greater part, boring. It has always been this way, even when the physiques being presented were real. That is a truth that some may well have difficulty accepting, but it is what it is. The truth.
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To clarify a point....people keep asking me about these "declining numbers"....here is a recent example:
Jon Lindsay (NPC Promoter) has a show tomorrow
NPC/ IFBB PRO Figure
160+ in the show
100 are NPC Bikini and Figure
2 are FBB
I assume these numbers are correct and have no doubt that they are.
If that is the case, then the show ( by the numbers) is mostly NON bodybuilding events on stage, right?
THAT is my point exactly BOB. I don't want to attend and event that is mostly NON bodybuilding. I would rather move on to something else myself.
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In a recent thread on the controversy over the ending of WBB, Bob Chick posted some entry numbers to make his point. In a recent NPC show they had 160+ entered in the show , at least 100 were female figure and bikini, while only two(2) were female bodybuilders.
By useing Bob's own numbers it is obvious that this NPC contest was mostly NON bodybuilders featured on stage ( bikini/figure). The NPC/IFBB has become a swimsuit contest with some male BODYBUILDING included. Once again, the numbers show the even male BB is a much smaller % of those in any contest. With the dropping of FBB and addition of WPD and MPD *(in board shorts), the % of NON bodybuilding will increase even more. I am not going to support an organization that isn't majority bodybuilding. I have no problem with some small % of bikini or figure girls or even male fitness models, on stage in shows.
BUT, when I join or attend a bodybuilding organization , I want it to feature mostly bodybuilding.
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you really cant blame them(NPC/IFBB) for their move tho Howard. Its a business, so their bottomline is increase profit. By adding more male competitors(mens figure), they will increase their revenue greatly from more competitor. and the audience attending will also increase, as more schmoes will be drawed to see more dudes dancing around. its a fact that the large majority of males who attend these shows are homosexual, so im sure they dont mind losing a small minority of their audience(like you) in return to increase their dominantly large target audience (homosexual schmoes). All your crying isnt going to change shit dude, so just give it up. The schmoes will always dominatebodybuilding.
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Howard - as much as i agree with you.... Its all about the money man!
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Will start out so so and then get freakier... like anything else.
In 10 years Mike O'Hearn will represent the Bikini class.
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I assume these numbers are correct and have no doubt that they are.
If that is the case, then the show ( by the numbers) is mostly NON bodybuilding events on stage, right?
THAT is my point exactly BOB. I don't want to attend and event that is mostly NON bodybuilding. I would rather move on to something else myself.
I didn list the numbers for mens BB, howie....
As I said before, no one HAS to sit there and watch everything....you have legs, use them
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you really cant blame them(NPC/IFBB) for their move tho Howard. Its a business, so their bottomline is increase profit. By adding more male competitors(mens figure), they will increase their revenue greatly from more competitor. and the audience attending will also increase, as more schmoes will be drawed to see more dudes dancing around.
The increase in competitors will obviously help the NPC, where numbers equal cash. I don't think there will be any attendance increase at the pro level. The look of men's BB hasn't changed and women's events/male figure aren't going to draw an audience.
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I assume these numbers are correct and have no doubt that they are.
If that is the case, then the show ( by the numbers) is mostly NON bodybuilding events on stage, right?
THAT is my point exactly BOB. I don't want to attend and event that is mostly NON bodybuilding. I would rather move on to something else myself.
To play devil's advocate Howard, the problem isn't necessarily the new divisions. The problem is the old divisions did not take care of business and screwed most of the competitors.
These new divisions are coming into play because the old ones went to the point of no return.
Women's Bodybuilding led to Fitness...the overemphasis of gymnastics and not enough objective criteria led to figure....Figure got carried away and now you have bikini.
Same with the men. GH guts, too many unattractive, and unhealthy physiques have now led to men's physique or whatever you want to call it.
To see where it all went wrong...listen to Lee Haney's interview. I DOUBT many of the competitors pay attention to detail like that anymore, and the consequence is the replacement of BB'ng with these things designed to be more appealing.
I don't know if it will work though.
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http://www.hardbody.com/news/2010/10/27/ifbb-womens-bodybuilding-rep-moving-in-the-right-direction-with-a-positive-message/
Thanks to Isaac Hinds and our sister site, Hardbody.com, for posting this statement...
IFBB Women’s Bodybuilding Represenatative, Betty Pariso issued a statement today, regarding the Women’s Physique Division. The details of the new division are still be ironed out but the interwebs have been all a buzz about the new division. It’s said to be for women who aren’t muscular enough to be competitive in bodybuilding but too muscular for figure. The division is still be explored and official word from the NPC/IFBB has yet to be released.
Betty recently retired from competitive bodybuilding but she is very active in promoting shows with her husband Ed. Betty shared, “First let me say that Ed & I have added a 2nd Pro Women’s Contest to our Event Schedule in 2011. We will be bringing FIBO / Europa to the USA and we have included Pro Women Bodybuilding to the line-up of events. It will be held in Chicago – September 30, 2 weeks after the 2011 Olympia.”
Betty had this to share today…
MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WITH A POSITIVE MESSAGE
TIME LINE:
April 2007: In 2007 I had created a overall program called Women’s Physique Division , and presented it to the IFBB Committee, and at that time it was rejected. I felt at the time, and still do that there is a big niche that we are missing…women that want to train and build some muscle. Currently, we are missing a huge market, somewhere between the current level of Women’s Bodybuilding and Figure. Women that want muscle, just not to the excess…that is what I keep hearing from so many Women that they want. The progression of Women’s Bodybuilding over the years may have discouraged many from competition in our sport.
April 2010: I made the decision one month after the Arnold to retire from Women’s Bodybuilding. I was not tired of Women’s Bodybuilding, Competing or Training, but had decided I would not do what it takes to compete at that level of muscularity. Ed knew competing for me was so much of who I am…so we looked around and the only thing left out there for me was Figure. Although Figure is smaller than I wanted to be, I was excited with this new challenge, and it became a fun new goal for me that kept me motivated to change my body. I dropped 30 pounds in 3 months and of course loved the clothes I could fit into !
August 2010: Bob (Bob Chicherillo, the IFBB Pro Athlete’s Rep) contacts me and ask me to join and support a somewhat similar proposal that he too named “Women’s Physique Division”. I was happy to be involved and will lend my support and hopefully be able to give some ideas and direction. At this time the exact criteria is not known. You have heard directly from Steve Weinberger that Women’s Bodybuilding is not going anywhere.
MY THOUGHTS: As a woman…I do feel in my heart it is the right direction and message regardless. I am always about being inclusive. I know some of you will not fit into this new category, but as it currently stands, many do not fit in either Figure or Pro Women’s Bodybuilding. So we have left out a huge group of women that will now have somewhere to go.
As I get older, and hopefully wiser I have always been concerned about the message we are sending to the young women coming up in the sport of female bodybuilding. The image that is winning at the highest level is a body image that is causing many women to make very difficult choices or drop out of the sport of Bodybuilding. For a lot of Women, some muscle on a woman is very beautiful…no question, but we are way over on the muscularity end of what many female bodybuilders originally liked about the sport and wanted for themselves. If this new division proves to be successful in the NPC, then these women will now have the Women’s Physique Division in which to compete.
Women’s Bodybuilding has evolved to the highest level of muscularity, and it has created a huge void between Figure and Women’s Bodybuilding. Hopefully I will have some input in
developing the criteria and this new division lands somewhere in the middle.
Sincerely,
Betty Pariso
IFBB Women’s Bodybuilding Rep
IFBB Promoter
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Love you Ron! :D :-*
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http://www.hardbody.com/news/2010/10/27/ifbb-womens-bodybuilding-rep-moving-in-the-right-direction-with-a-positive-message/
Thanks to Isaac Hinds and our sister site, Hardbody.com, for posting this statement...
IFBB Women’s Bodybuilding Represenatative, Betty Pariso issued a statement today, regarding the Women’s Physique Division. The details of the new division are still be ironed out but the interwebs have been all a buzz about the new division. It’s said to be for women who aren’t muscular enough to be competitive in bodybuilding but too muscular for figure. The division is still be explored and official word from the NPC/IFBB has yet to be released.
Betty recently retired from competitive bodybuilding but she is very active in promoting shows with her husband Ed. Betty shared, “First let me say that Ed & I have added a 2nd Pro Women’s Contest to our Event Schedule in 2011. We will be bringing FIBO / Europa to the USA and we have included Pro Women Bodybuilding to the line-up of events. It will be held in Chicago – September 30, 2 weeks after the 2011 Olympia.”
Betty had this to share today…
MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WITH A POSITIVE MESSAGE
TIME LINE:
April 2007: In 2007 I had created a overall program called Women’s Physique Division , and presented it to the IFBB Committee, and at that time it was rejected. I felt at the time, and still do that there is a big niche that we are missing…women that want to train and build some muscle. Currently, we are missing a huge market, somewhere between the current level of Women’s Bodybuilding and Figure. Women that want muscle, just not to the excess…that is what I keep hearing from so many Women that they want. The progression of Women’s Bodybuilding over the years may have discouraged many from competition in our sport.
April 2010: I made the decision one month after the Arnold to retire from Women’s Bodybuilding. I was not tired of Women’s Bodybuilding, Competing or Training, but had decided I would not do what it takes to compete at that level of muscularity. Ed knew competing for me was so much of who I am…so we looked around and the only thing left out there for me was Figure. Although Figure is smaller than I wanted to be, I was excited with this new challenge, and it became a fun new goal for me that kept me motivated to change my body. I dropped 30 pounds in 3 months and of course loved the clothes I could fit into !
August 2010: Bob (Bob Chicherillo, the IFBB Pro Athlete’s Rep) contacts me and ask me to join and support a somewhat similar proposal that he too named “Women’s Physique Division”. I was happy to be involved and will lend my support and hopefully be able to give some ideas and direction. At this time the exact criteria is not known. You have heard directly from Steve Weinberger that Women’s Bodybuilding is not going anywhere.
MY THOUGHTS: As a woman…I do feel in my heart it is the right direction and message regardless. I am always about being inclusive. I know some of you will not fit into this new category, but as it currently stands, many do not fit in either Figure or Pro Women’s Bodybuilding. So we have left out a huge group of women that will now have somewhere to go.
As I get older, and hopefully wiser I have always been concerned about the message we are sending to the young women coming up in the sport of female bodybuilding. The image that is winning at the highest level is a body image that is causing many women to make very difficult choices or drop out of the sport of Bodybuilding. For a lot of Women, some muscle on a woman is very beautiful…no question, but we are way over on the muscularity end of what many female bodybuilders originally liked about the sport and wanted for themselves. If this new division proves to be successful in the NPC, then these women will now have the Women’s Physique Division in which to compete.
Women’s Bodybuilding has evolved to the highest level of muscularity, and it has created a huge void between Figure and Women’s Bodybuilding. Hopefully I will have some input in
developing the criteria and this new division lands somewhere in the middle.
Sincerely,
Betty Pariso
IFBB Women’s Bodybuilding Rep
IFBB Promoter
Hopefully the same competitors do not keep placing in the same spots...
Also I watched the youtube interviews...hmmmm...the re were other competitors that followed the 20 percent less rule but were continually over looked...sad but true. The only reason they stopped competing was because they were over looked time and time again. Now it is time for the judges to actually do and say enough is enough. I stayed in this sport even when I couldn't even get a second glance because of my size. I never boo-hooed about it, because if the women are not doing this sport for themselves then they should not be doing it and if they are not staying true to themselves, they should not be doing it. Let's face it, there are no real benefits in being a pro, no health care or retirement package or even a salary as a competitor so do it for yourself first and then for your fans and say to hell with all the rest of the BS because we have all put ourselves out there to be judged.
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:o
(http://femalemuscle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/tonie241.jpg)
Reminds one of "The Diva" in the film, "The Fifth Element".
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Hopefully the same competitors do not keep placing in the same spots...
Also I watched the youtube interviews...hmmmm...the re were other competitors that followed the 20 percent less rule but were continually over looked...sad but true. The only reason they stopped competing was because they were over looked time and time again. Now it is time for the judges to actually do and say enough is enough. I stayed in this sport even when I couldn't even get a second glance because of my size. I never boo-hooed about it, because if the women are not doing this sport for themselves then they should not be doing it and if they are not staying true to themselves, they should not be doing it. Let's face it, there are no real benefits in being a pro, no health care or retirement package or even a salary as a competitor so do it for yourself first and then for your fans and say to hell with all the rest of the BS because we have all put ourselves out there to be judged.
I totally respect that!
Good luck in the future.
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Bump....
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wow, what a COMPLETELY predictable...........no-boat-rocking, tow the company line,dont ruffle feathers, dont step on toes..........i do what im told, "i wanna keep my job".............stale boring, sterile PC answer
betty pariso's "statment" is the verbal equivalent of khaki, Ph balance of zero.......just boring drivel........just complete dreck, fucking NOTHINGNESS
COMPLETE FUCKING NOTHINGNESS..........wit h the stench of ASS-kissery...........she has no opinion of her own, her opinion is what she is told to have if she want to retain her place in the industry
she should be embarrassed and ashamed of herself to actually call this regurgitation of company policy her own thought.......just utterly transparent
Betty had this to share today…
MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WITH A POSITIVE MESSAGE
TIME LINE:
April 2007: In 2007 I had created a overall program called Women’s Physique Division , and presented it to the IFBB Committee, and at that time it was rejected. I felt at the time, and still do that there is a big niche that we are missing…women that want to train and build some muscle. Currently, we are missing a huge market, somewhere between the current level of Women’s Bodybuilding and Figure. Women that want muscle, just not to the excess…that is what I keep hearing from so many Women that they want. The progression of Women’s Bodybuilding over the years may have discouraged many from competition in our sport.
April 2010: I made the decision one month after the Arnold to retire from Women’s Bodybuilding. I was not tired of Women’s Bodybuilding, Competing or Training, but had decided I would not do what it takes to compete at that level of muscularity. Ed knew competing for me was so much of who I am…so we looked around and the only thing left out there for me was Figure. Although Figure is smaller than I wanted to be, I was excited with this new challenge, and it became a fun new goal for me that kept me motivated to change my body. I dropped 30 pounds in 3 months and of course loved the clothes I could fit into !
August 2010: Bob (Bob Chicherillo, the IFBB Pro Athlete’s Rep) contacts me and ask me to join and support a somewhat similar proposal that he too named “Women’s Physique Division”. I was happy to be involved and will lend my support and hopefully be able to give some ideas and direction. At this time the exact criteria is not known. You have heard directly from Steve Weinberger that Women’s Bodybuilding is not going anywhere.
MY THOUGHTS: As a woman…I do feel in my heart it is the right direction and message regardless. I am always about being inclusive. I know some of you will not fit into this new category, but as it currently stands, many do not fit in either Figure or Pro Women’s Bodybuilding. So we have left out a huge group of women that will now have somewhere to go.
As I get older, and hopefully wiser I have always been concerned about the message we are sending to the young women coming up in the sport of female bodybuilding. The image that is winning at the highest level is a body image that is causing many women to make very difficult choices or drop out of the sport of Bodybuilding. For a lot of Women, some muscle on a woman is very beautiful…no question, but we are way over on the muscularity end of what many female bodybuilders originally liked about the sport and wanted for themselves. If this new division proves to be successful in the NPC, then these women will now have the Women’s Physique Division in which to compete.
Women’s Bodybuilding has evolved to the highest level of muscularity, and it has created a huge void between Figure and Women’s Bodybuilding. Hopefully I will have some input in
developing the criteria and this new division lands somewhere in the middle.
Sincerely,
Betty Pariso
IFBB Women’s Bodybuilding Rep
IFBB Promoter
-
Hey Deb-
The details are being worked on as we speak, criteria and guidelines are being outlined and shows are being put into place (there will be no less than 6 qualifying shows in 2011, with a pro division to be in place starting the 2012 season.
No, as a pro, you will not have to RE-Q, as you will simply be able to compete in the WPD if you should choose.
We'll be issuing a "official" statement as soon as were prepared and details are in place...until then, feel free to ask any questions you wish...I'll be more than happy to give you answers
Bob, If its a totally new division, why would a pro FBB be able to just compete in a new division(WPD)? Are they all interchangeable? Can an IFBB pro FBB compete in an IFBB pro bikini class without turning pro in that division?
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Is this bodybuilding's way of being politically correct? The NPC & IFBB are selling out for mainstream appeal. We could see a rival federation that puts the focus back on bodybuilding.
I don't think so...
Physique will not be for the mainstream, it takes too much effort, that's what they have the Bikini division for.
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Bob, If its a totally new division, why would a pro FBB be able to just compete in a new division(WPD)? Are they all interchangeable? Can an IFBB pro FBB compete in an IFBB pro bikini class without turning pro in that division?
yes, she could
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fbb needs to get abolished altogether, nobody other then hardcore schmoes wants to see a bunch of juiced up dyke's, fuck em
bring on the bikini and beach body girls!
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Rules are out:
http://www.npcnewsonline.com/rules_women.cfm
I'll be switching Physique when it becomes a division in the Pro ranks (2012). Looking forward to it. 8)
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I haven't taken the time to read everything in this thread, except to briefly glance at the rules you just posted, Lori. Everywhere I turn, people ask me if I'm going to come back to the NPC and do the Physique division. Right now, my answer is no. I still feel that there are only so many times I can bang my head against a wall, expecting my head to win and the wall to give way when in reality I only walk home with headache and heartache and everyone around me telling me what "shoulda" occurred.
I do have questions that all should consider:
1. Exactly when will competitors be given an objective rubric that outlines what the judges expect to see and where the various percentages are weighted when determining scores. I've always said, "The more subjective the outcome, the more objective the judging." I compare it to when I was teaching and grading essays, poetry, and other creative projects and had to explain to students and parents alike what the difference between an A+ project was from a C+ project. It is only fair to the competitors who put in so much time, effort, money, and sacrifice to give give give to a sport that takes takes takes.
2. Exactly what will keep Physique from going the same route that Bodybuilding went? The pendulum always swings. Remember that. Just look at the history of figure to know what I'm talking about. There were points where I was told I was too small and not muscular enough on top to make it to the pro ranks and then there was a point I was told I was too lean and too muscular to make it to the pro ranks. Which is it? Why the consistently moving targets in Figure? What will keep the target on point and steady for Physique and stop the abuse of steroids, growth hormone, and diuretics? Will drug testing finally occur in order to keep the Physique division from becoming counter productive to its original intentions?
3. Why so many divisions? I can tell you why. To make money. Whatever will sell will determine the outcome. Keep the pendulum moving, and the cash keeps coming because from one year to the next and one show to the next, the outcome can vary, which means anyone can be a winner. The more that all feel like they can achieve the look, the more likely they will pay the fees to trainers, promoters, organizations alike.
I'm not trying to start a hornet's nest, but I think these are valid questions. When competitors take control of their own sport and put some resistance against an ever-moving pendulum in order to center it, then the sport will actually change.
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Rules are out:
http://www.npcnewsonline.com/rules_women.cfm
I'll be switching Physique when it becomes a division in the Pro ranks (2012). Looking forward to it. 8)
doesnt it make you curious:
who do you think does the website belong ?
take a look !
http://www.nationalphysiquecommittee.com/
Registrant:
J.M. Productions
James M. (J.M.) Manion
536 Washington Avenue
Bridgeville, PA 15017
US
Phone: +1.4122574555
Email: jmmnpc@aol.com
Registrar Name....: Register.com
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: www.register.com
Domain Name: nationalphysiquecommitte e.com
Created on..............: 2000-05-02
Expires on..............: 2011-05-02
Administrative Contact:
J.M. Productions
J.M. Manion
P.O. Box 293
Presto, PA 15142-0293
US
Phone: 412-257-4555
Email: jmmnpc@aol.com
Technical Contact:
Register.Com
Domain Registrar
575 8th Avenue 11th Floor
New York, NY 10018
US
Phone: 1-902-7492701
Email: domain-registrar@register.com
DNS Servers:
dns082.a.register.com
dns138.b.register.com
dns033.c.register.com
dns010.d.register.com
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to better explain:
manion jr. (son of the boss) does have an agency...he contracts girls for shoots and for magazines work...
he is also the owner of the npc website....all informations right now about the new divisions are coming from jr.
if you want to know the judging rules, you have to find out which girls he will contract...after that the judging rules will be written to fit this girls (as was with bikini...ms o bikini...contracted with jr)
Yep, Junior's in on the ground floor for this one. That tells you (a) Senior will be kept informed, (b) the judging will be based on who'd look good in a photoshoot and (c) if you want to go pro, you'd better sign up with Junior in the amateurs.
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to better explain:
manion jr. (son of the boss) does have an agency...he contracts girls for shoots and for magazines work...
he is also the owner of the npc website....all informations right now about the new divisions are coming from jr.
if you want to know the judging rules, you have to find out which girls he will contract...after that the judging rules will be written to fit this girls (as was with bikini...ms o bikini...contracted with jr)
Yep, Junior's in on the ground floor for this one. That tells you (a) Senior will be kept informed, (b) the judging will be based on who'd look good in a photoshoot and (c) if you want to go pro, you'd better sign up with Junior in the amateurs.
Ok ... but not exactly.
JM signs girls who are doing well or can do well. Since some of us take pics and look out, if we see someone which can do great, of course, we promote it out there. The fact that he signs competitors which placed first and go on to do well is fine.
Hell, on the local level here in California, there are a number of times in which I see great potential, as the the judges, and they go on to turn pro. At least 10 or so in the last year. And for next year, there are a few girls who also have great potential to turn pro.
Do we talk? Of course? If the photographers and judges are excited about someone who can go pro, and do well, so be it that people listen.
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The fact that he signs competitors which placed first and go on to do well is fine.
he signed the ms o bikini before she won !
i would say the ifbb is a bunch of corupt people...and every court would tell the same...