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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 01:18:46 PM

Title: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 01:18:46 PM
A massive release of hundreds of thousands of documents spills the beans on everything from US embassies spying on the UN to Russian Mafia being in bed with Putin (surprise).

Good stuff and should be interesting to see what else comes out of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11858895
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Kazan on November 28, 2010, 01:44:05 PM
The wikileaks guy is toast, he just fucked with the Russians/Putin.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 28, 2010, 01:48:13 PM
Someone is going to take that guy out. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 02:03:58 PM
Doesn't matter if they do, he has quite a few people working with him and many ways of getting information to them without ever meeting face to face.

It's quite amusing that some senators are calling it an act of "treason" to release the information.  Maybe they should look up the definition of treason since he isn't a citizen of the US.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 02:07:57 PM
One of the bigger things to come out of this is the news of Saudia Arabia and Jordan pressuring the US to attack Iran.  Not something Iran is going to be too happy to hear about.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Kazan on November 28, 2010, 02:08:10 PM
Doesn't matter if they do, he has quite a few people working with him and many ways of getting information to them without ever meeting face to face.

It's quite amusing that some senators are calling it an act of "treason" to release the information.  Maybe they should look up the definition of treason since he isn't a citizen of the US.

Like I would expect a senator to know what treason is ;D, Well the Russians have ways of finding people, I see alot of people either going into hiding or disappearing not of their own accord.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on November 28, 2010, 02:10:57 PM
Doesn't matter if they do, he has quite a few people working with him and many ways of getting information to them without ever meeting face to face.

It's quite amusing that some senators are calling it an act of "treason" to release the information.  Maybe they should look up the definition of treason since he isn't a citizen of the US.


Assange?  What senators called for him to be tried for treason?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 28, 2010, 02:11:50 PM
So far this has been a big yawn.  Nothing earth shaking so far.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: garebear on November 28, 2010, 02:17:50 PM
So far this has been a big yawn.  Nothing earth shaking so far.
You don't consider Arab nations in support of bombing Iran big news?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 02:19:13 PM
One of the bigger things to come out of this is the news of Saudia Arabia and Jordan pressuring the US to attack Iran.  Not something Iran is going to be too happy to hear about.

This is surprising to you? Anyone who has done any reading on the Middle East would know that Iran is loathed by every Sunni-majority Muslim country. It was reported earlier this year that Saudi Arabia gave Israel tacit approval to use their airspace on an Iranian bombing run.

These are another set of revelations most people already knew and will be forgotten in three weeks like the rest of them.

So far this has been a big yawn.  Nothing earth shaking so far.

People will try to blow them up into something huge (Hi, Samson) and in a few weeks no one will care.

You don't consider Arab nations in support of bombing Iran big news?

What's news is that people didn't know that Iran is hated by most Middle Eastern countries and their people. Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims do not get along. They never have and they never will.

Does anyone really think the Sunni Muslim countries in the Middle East want a nuclear-armed Iran?  ::)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 28, 2010, 02:19:59 PM
Doesn't matter if they do, he has quite a few people working with him and many ways of getting information to them without ever meeting face to face.


Sure it would matter.  I doubt people working with him would be inclined to risk their lives to disclose info if someone took him out.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 02:20:04 PM

Assange?  What senators called for him to be tried for treason?

Redacted =)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 28, 2010, 02:20:36 PM
Not at all.  do you guys ever listen to john batchelor at night?   This has been know for over a year.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 02:21:21 PM
The fact that this guy hasn't been assassinated yet speaks wonders about how the "severity" of these leaks.....aka they don't mean dick.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 02:21:50 PM
This is surprising to you? Anyone who has done any reading on the Middle East would know that Iran is loathed by every Sunni-majority Muslim country. It was reported earlier this year that Saudi Arabia gave Israel tacit approval to use their airspace on an Iranian bombing run.

These are another set of revelations most people already knew and will be forgotten in three weeks like the rest of them.

People will try to blow them up into something huge (Hi, Samson) and in a few weeks no one will care.

What's news is that people didn't know that Iran is hated by most Middle Eastern countries and their people. Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims do not get along. They never have and they never will.

Does anyone really think the Sunni Muslim countries in the Middle East want a nuclear-armed Iran?  ::)

It's obviously not surprising to me in the least bit, for it to come out with blatant documentation of these two countries calling for military strikes or "whatever means necessary" to stop Irans nuclear program is big news to a lot of people.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 02:24:07 PM
It's obviously not surprising to me in the least bit, for it to come out with blatant documentation of these two countries calling for military strikes or "whatever means necessary" to stop Irans nuclear program is big news to a lot of people.

Why? Like I said, DEBKA reported earlier this year that Saudi Arabia already gave Israel clearance to use their airspace in a bombing run of Iran's nuclear facilities.

The most revealing things from these leaks, in my opinion, is the link between the Russian Mob and Russian government. The Russians have spent years assassinating journalists and dissidents who got in too deep on this topic.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 28, 2010, 02:25:17 PM
Gengrich and King are calling it an act of treason:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/111159-rep-king-calls-wikileaks-treason-calls-for-prosecution


http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/wikileaks-newt-gingrich-treason/2010/07/31/id/366209

They're talking about the American who provided the info. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on November 28, 2010, 02:27:58 PM
Gengrich and King are calling it an act of treason:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/111159-rep-king-calls-wikileaks-treason-calls-for-prosecution


http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/wikileaks-newt-gingrich-treason/2010/07/31/id/366209


Did you actually read what you linked?  They're both talking about the Americans behind the leaks.  And Gingrich isn't a senator (nor was he).
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Mons Venus on November 28, 2010, 02:29:05 PM
A massive release of hundreds of thousands of documents spills the beans on everything from US embassies spying on the UN to Russian Mafia being in bed with Putin (surprise).

Good stuff and should be interesting to see what else comes out of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11858895

America would never spy. CTers
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 02:29:08 PM

Did you actually read what you linked?  They're both talking about the Americans behind the leaks.  And Gingrich isn't a senator (nor was he).

Yes, simple mistake, I'll redact that.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on November 28, 2010, 02:29:17 PM
They're talking about the American who provided the info. 


Doh!  Beat me to it!
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 02:32:41 PM
I've got to tip my hat to Hillary for spying on the UN. That organization, comprised of dictators, despots and tyrants, is the most corrupt and useless organization on the planet and seems to exist for no other reason than to bleed us dry while destroying our sovereignty.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 28, 2010, 02:35:27 PM
Hillary may be a lot things, but I know she is not a traitor. 

Shit - she used to be a major goldwater girl in her youth. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 28, 2010, 02:44:25 PM

Doh!  Beat me to it!

 :)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 28, 2010, 02:45:25 PM
Yes, simple mistake, I'll redact that.

I think you mean "retract"? 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 03:05:12 PM
I think you mean "retract"? 

It was a Palin joke, sorry =)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 03:05:45 PM
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,731583,00.html

Some good info from a non US source.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 03:36:42 PM
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,731583,00.html

Some good info from a non US source.

Good piece of propaganda, that's for sure.

Apparently thinking Kenya's government is corrupt and that Turkey is on a path towards Islamism is arrogant now?

Then again, they have to sell papers so they'll no doubt blow it out of proportion and people like you will suck it right up.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 03:44:47 PM
Good piece of propaganda, that's for sure.

Apparently thinking Kenya's government is corrupt and that Turkey is on a path towards Islamism is arrogant now?

Then again, they have to sell papers so they'll no doubt blow it out of proportion and people like you will suck it right up.

Like you sucking up propaganda about Al Qaeda and the world wide terrorist network out to kill America at all costs?  Unlike you I gather information from all points of view to make a logical assessment instead cherry picking from one news source to further my own agenda.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 03:49:31 PM
Like you sucking up propaganda about Al Qaeda and the world wide terrorist network out to kill America at all costs?  Unlike you I gather information from all points of view to make a logical assessment instead cherry picking from one news source to further my own agenda.

Hahaha, of course you do. However, the only thing you've done in this thread is show that you're completely clueless to many things regarding the religious group you worship and the part of the world where it's dominant.

Hint: I, along with others, have been posting about Turkey's shying away from secularism and its fall to Islamism for a long time now. Maybe you should do some actual reading, "information gatherer".

Now continue to be a good little moron and drink up everything that liberal German rag tells you. I can't stop laughing at their argument that having a realistic view of the world (and not the Utopian fairytale they and people like you share) is "arrogant" now. LOL.

Keep trying to make a mountain of a molehill.  ::)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 03:55:51 PM
Hahaha, of course you do. However, the only thing you've done in this thread is show that you're completely clueless to many things regarding the religious group you worship and the part of the world where it's dominant.

Hint: I, along with others, have been posting about Turkey's shying away from secularism and its fall to Islamism for a long time now. Maybe you should do some actual reading, "information gatherer".

Now continue to be a good little moron and drink up everything that liberal German rag tells you. I can't stop laughing at their argument that having a realistic view of the world (and not the Utopian fairytale they and people like you share) is "arrogant" now. LOL.

Keep trying to make a mountain of a molehill.  ::)


Once again when faced with the facts you pull baseless statements out of your ass to try and prove a completely failed point.  You have nothing to stand on so you invent so called facts out of thin air, nice try, but you are once again exposed for the fear mongering propagandist you are.

You can't provide any links of me "worshiping" Islam or Muslims so until then, go back to living in fear, that's all you are good at.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 04:08:09 PM
Once again when faced with the facts you pull baseless statements out of your ass to try and prove a completely failed point.  You have nothing to stand on so you invent so called facts out of thin air, nice try, but you are once again exposed for the fear mongering propagandist you are.

You can't provide any links of me "worshiping" Islam or Muslims so until then, go back to living in fear, that's all you are good at.

Facts? What facts? Are you referring to the opinionated "Der Spiegel" article that you linked? That article does not constitute "facts". It's one person's analysis of these leaks, and a biased one at that.

Let me help you out, though:

fact   
[fakt]  Show IPA
–noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law . Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.


I suggest you learn the definition of simple words like that before you start throwing them around to prop up your arguments.

Regardless, I'm sorry that you're so naive and clueless.  :-\
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on November 28, 2010, 04:11:00 PM
you pull baseless statements out of your ass to try and prove a completely failed point. 


I think we established earlier in this thread that you do that. 

Do you think AQ is localized?  Regional?  World-wide?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 04:13:08 PM
Facts? What facts? Are you referring to the opinionated "Der Spiegel" article that you linked? That article does not constitute "facts". It's one person's analysis of these leaks, and a biased one at that.

Let me help you out, though:

fact   
[fakt]  Show IPA
–noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law . Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.


I suggest you learn the definition of simple words like that before you start throwing them around to prop up your arguments.

Regardless, I'm sorry that you're so naive and clueless.  :-\

Once again you utterly fail and miss the point.  I wasn't referring to the article when I made the statement about being faced with the facts.  The article was posted for the simple reason that it had other information in it regarding the leaks that other sites had yet to be reported on.  Any opinion, speculation or conjecture should be left up to the reader to wade through.

You really can't be this dense can you?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 04:14:40 PM
Once again you utterly fail and miss the point.  I wasn't referring to the article when I made the statement about being faced with the facts.  The article was posted for the simple reason that it had other information in it regarding the leaks that other sites had yet to be reported on.  Any opinion, speculation or conjecture should be left up to the reader to wade through.

You really can't be this dense can you?

Silly me for thinking that you were actually talking about this thread and not one of your other asinine posts full of "facts" (and I say that term lightly given the shit you post) that has nothing to do with this topic.  ::)

Funny how bent out of shape you've gotten once it was pointed out that you're completely clueless on topics you like to feign knowledge of.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 04:21:54 PM
Silly me for thinking that you were actually talking about this thread and not one of your other asinine posts full of "facts" (and I say that term lightly given the shit you post) that has nothing to do with this topic.  ::)

Funny how bent out of shape you've gotten once it was pointed out that you're completely clueless on topics you like to feign knowledge of.

You have no room to talk when it comes to posting so called facts.  You've shown in this thread that you can't form a logical retort without pulling completely false information out of your ass.  Now run along and let the adults finish their discussion.

Skip, regarding AQ, as a so called "word wide network of terror" it doesn't exist.  I already started a thread about this topic if you want to read it, feel free.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 04:26:40 PM
You have no room to talk when it comes to posting so called facts.  You've shown in this thread that you can't form a logical retort without pulling completely false information out of your ass.  Now run along and let the adults finish their discussion.

Skip, regarding AQ, as a so called "word wide network of terror" it doesn't exist.  I already started a thread about this topic if you want to read it, feel free.

Hahahaha, false information? Do tell.

You've been exposed as a naive and clueless individual regarding Middle Eastern affairs and are now throwing a temper tantrum.

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: 240 is Back on November 28, 2010, 04:28:10 PM
LOL!

We carpet bomb weddings in ally nations because we have "intel" that there might be bad guys there.

But we can't get one guy spilling state secrets - when we know where he is - because of why, exactly?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 04:44:30 PM
Hahahaha, false information? Do tell.

Oh since you asked, I'd be happy to:
Quote
Hahaha, of course you do. However, the only thing you've done in this thread is show that you're completely clueless to many things regarding the religious group you worship and the part of the world where it's dominant.

Fact: I've never posted anything that would even come close to worshiping let alone supporting Islam or Muslim extremists.  I've posted numerous times I don't agree with their religion, with the way they treat women, their views on people who don't agree with their beliefs etc.  This is a completely baseless and grossly false statement.  Typical of someone who has no argument to stand on.




Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 04:47:29 PM
Hahahaha, false information? Do tell.

You've been exposed as a naive and clueless individual regarding Middle Eastern affairs and are now throwing a temper tantrum.



If you define temper tantrum as responding in a logical and concise manner, then so be it.  You can't even respond without throwing out completely false information and personal insults.

This applies perfectly to you: Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

If you want to have a logical discussion, lets have one, otherwise keep your ignorance out of the thread.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 28, 2010, 04:59:50 PM
Hillary = bad ass mofo.  I have a new found respect for her. 

________________________ ________________________ ____________--

From FR:

To: advance_copy
I think this is Obama taking down Hillary.

“Top secret cables revealed that Mrs Clinton, the Secretary of State, even ordered diplomats to obtain DNA data – including iris scans and fingerprints - as well as credit card and frequent flier numbers.

All permanent members of the security council – including Russia, China, France and the UK – were targeted by the secret spying mission, as well as the Secretary General of the UN, Ban Ki-Moon.

Work schedules, email addresses, fax numbers, website identifiers and mobile numbers were also demanded by Washington.

The US also wanted ‘biographic and biometric information on UN Security Council permanent representatives’.

The request could break international law and threatens to derail any trust between the US and other powerful nations.

Requests for IT related information – such as details of passwords, personal encryption keys and network upgrades - could also raise suspicions that the US was preparing to mount a hacking operation.

It is set to lead to international calls for Mrs Clinton to resign.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333879/WikiLeaks-Diplomatic-crisis-Americas-secret-cables-published-online—Prince-Andrew-singled-criticism.html#ixzz16d1F9Mk8


Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 28, 2010, 05:03:14 PM
Oh since you asked, I'd be happy to:
Fact: I've never posted anything that would even come close to worshiping let alone supporting Islam or Muslim extremists.  I've posted numerous times I don't agree with their religion, with the way they treat women, their views on people who don't agree with their beliefs etc.  This is a completely baseless and grossly false statement.  Typical of someone who has no argument to stand on.






What's false about it? In this thread you've shown yourself to be utterly clueless on Middle Eastern affairs. I suggest you crawl back into your hole and pop back up when you think you've got an argument, a la kcballer tactics.

Hillary = bad ass mofo.  I have a new found respect for her.  

________________________ ________________________ ____________--

From FR:

To: advance_copy
I think this is Obama taking down Hillary.

“Top secret cables revealed that Mrs Clinton, the Secretary of State, even ordered diplomats to obtain DNA data – including iris scans and fingerprints - as well as credit card and frequent flier numbers.

All permanent members of the security council – including Russia, China, France and the UK – were targeted by the secret spying mission, as well as the Secretary General of the UN, Ban Ki-Moon.

Work schedules, email addresses, fax numbers, website identifiers and mobile numbers were also demanded by Washington.

The US also wanted ‘biographic and biometric information on UN Security Council permanent representatives’.

The request could break international law and threatens to derail any trust between the US and other powerful nations.

Requests for IT related information – such as details of passwords, personal encryption keys and network upgrades - could also raise suspicions that the US was preparing to mount a hacking operation.

It is set to lead to international calls for Mrs Clinton to resign.”

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333879/WikiLeaks-Diplomatic-crisis-Americas-secret-cables-published-online—Prince-Andrew-singled-criticism.html#ixzz16d1F9Mk8




Awesome. I'd have more respect for her if she led the charge to have the US leave the UN.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 28, 2010, 05:07:11 PM
I have to say - after reading this I feel alot better that she at least will be a stop gap saving us from obamas penchant for giving away the store. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 28, 2010, 05:33:55 PM
What's false about it? In this thread you've shown yourself to be utterly clueless on Middle Eastern affairs. I suggest you crawl back into your hole and pop back up when you think you've got an argument, a la kcballer tactics.

Like I said earlier, when faced with the facts you have nothing to stand on.  When you have something worthy of discussion, let me know, it's way too easy completely dismantling you. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: George Whorewell on November 28, 2010, 05:38:38 PM
You don't consider Arab nations in support of bombing Iran big news?

Im sure someone else got to this below, but Im posting as I read. It has been widely reported in several major media outlets for months (including the post and daily news which I read every day) that this is the case-- a nuclear Iran is a lose-lose for the whole region.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: MM2K on November 28, 2010, 09:28:38 PM
The wikileaks guy is toast, he just fucked with the Russians/Putin.

THey should rename him DEAD MAN WALKING.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: theonlyone on November 28, 2010, 10:53:52 PM
 no Guys, no

 In Russian news I read this - someone American blah blah blah diplomats called Dmitri Medvedev pale and indecisive and Vladimir Putin - alpha male. I don't think Putin would kill for that lol. Dmitriy Medvedev may lol
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Hedgehog on November 29, 2010, 03:00:33 AM
Hillary may be a lot things, but I know she is not a traitor. 

Shit - she used to be a major goldwater girl in her youth. 

Golden girl?

Thank you for bein' a friend...


Estelle Getty - best actress ever? 8)
(http://linusfremin.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/the-golden-girls.jpg)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Mons Venus on November 29, 2010, 05:15:48 AM
Someone is going to take that guy out.  

truth sux.  :-*

9-11 info should be leaked next.  ;)

go wiki !!!  :D
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The Showstoppa on November 29, 2010, 05:17:58 AM
Funny that some of you who purport to be "in the know" are surprised that many ME nations want Iran to just go away....and being surprised that the US would "spy" on it's allies, host nations, etc....  ::)    But so many of you are so informed because you read something on a website....

And Putin is going to put this dog down.....as well as many of his informants and underlings.....book it.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 05:55:46 AM
Analysis: Wikileaks vindicate, don’t damage, Israel
Jerusalem Post ^ | 11/28/2010 | YAAKOV KATZ


________________________ ________________________ ________



The US is clearly listening to what Middle Eastern leaders have to say about Iran - now what are they going to do about it? Talkbacks (13) Based on the trove of diplomatic cables published by WikiLeaks on Sunday, the United States is clearly listening to and recording what Middle Eastern leaders have to say about Iran. The question left unanswered is what the US is willing to do about it.

For years now, top Israeli political and defense leaders have warned the world that a nuclear Iran is not just a threat to the Jewish state but is a threat to the entire region.

RELATED: Wikileaks: 'Saudis on Iran: Cut off the head of the snake' Leak: Iran used Red Crescent to smuggle weapons

“If only we could say publicly what we hear behind closed doors,” Israeli officials would comment, following off-record talks they held with Arab leaders throughout the Middle East.  

Well, now they can. According to one cable published by WikiLeaks on Sunday, Saudi King Abdullah “frequently exhorted the US to attack Iran to put an end to its nuclear weapons program” and to cut off the head of the snake.

According to another cable, King Hamad of Bahrain, a country with a majority Shi’ite population, urged in a meeting with former CENTCOM commander Gen.

David Petraeus that action be taken to terminate Iran’s nuclear program.

“That program must be stopped,” Hamad said, according to the cable. “The danger of letting it go on is greater than the danger of stopping it.”

Jordan, another country that voiced concern, is uncomfortable with the possibility that a nuclear Iran would provide an umbrella for opposition groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood. Egypt is also challenged by Iran’s continued nuclear development, as shown by the conviction in April of 26 men who were spying for Hizbullah and plotting attacks in Egypt.

From an Israeli perspective, therefore, it would not be an exaggeration to say that WikiLeaks may have done the country a service on Sunday. By presenting the Arab leaders as more extreme in their remarks than Israeli leaders, the cables show the dissonance in the region and the danger involved in allowing Iran to continue with its nuclear program.  

While there were some comments made by Mossad director Meir Dagan regarding leaders in the Middle East – the emir of Qatar is “annoying,” and the king of Morocco is not interested in governing – that are slightly embarrassing, Israeli politicians were spared the more embarrassing analyses of their personalities that French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi received.

The information revealed in the cables is vast and informative, providing an unprecedented insight into the way some of Israel’s top intelligence officials and politicians view the region and its challenges.

Dagan, for example, comes out looking much more than just the head of a spy agency, and according to the cables, is sought after by almost every senior US official visiting Israel. In one cable he met with a Homeland Security official, in another with the undersecretary of state. In another he met with officials from the Treasury Department and in another, Mossad officials met with US military officers.

In general and contrary to earlier predictions, the cables did not appear to contain information that could significantly harm Israeli national security.

Most Israeli officials, such as Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Dagan and Military Intelligence chief Maj.-Gen.

Amos Yadlin, appear to be careful in what they say in the meetings, which are clearly being documented by American aides in the room. In one cable, while Yadlin said that covert means needed to be used to stop Iran, he was quoted as refusing to elaborate.

At the end of the day, though, none of this has changed the state of affairs regarding global efforts to stop Iran. While the UN has ratcheted up sanctions and the US is threatening more and tougher ones, the Teheran regime is continuing to defy the international community and to enrich uranium, making it today just a jump away from creating a nuclear weapon whenever it wants. Subscribe to our Newsletter to receive news updates directly to your email

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 29, 2010, 12:44:39 PM
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20023941-38.html

King pushing to designate Wikileaks as a "terrorist group".  Fuck this guy.

BTW, there have only been 220 cables released out of the 250k+ that they plan on releasing over the next few months.  Seems like the US is pushing to pull the plug before that happens.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 01:21:16 PM
WikiLeaks are true patriots in my opinion and should keep up the wonderful work.  Its rather sickening to read what exactly is going on.  A lot of "spy vs. spy" pointless nonsense and total government waste.

This whole things really shines light on how big of a mess the world and the United States really are.  Its like a giant game at the top meanwhile the lowly people and citizens just continue to suffer.


Its obvious way over any one man`s head and charge and is but a giant industry of subterfuge.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: OzmO on November 29, 2010, 01:40:16 PM
WikiLeaks are true patriots in my opinion and should keep up the wonderful work.  Its rather sickening to read what exactly is going on.  A lot of "spy vs. spy" pointless nonsense and total government waste.

This whole things really shines light on how big of a mess the world and the United States really are.  Its like a giant game at the top meanwhile the lowly people and citizens just continue to suffer.


Its obvious way over any one man`s head and charge and is but a giant industry of subterfuge.

It is and it isn't.  They must keep the consumers working so they can spend and businesses can grow and tax revenue can flow in.  That's why governments must engage in this crap to protect their interests.

Personally i don't think wikileaks is a good thing.  In principle it sounds noble, but in practice i don't think it changes anything or does any real good.  Governments will always keep secrets.  And they should to a point.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 01:52:13 PM
WikiLeaks are true patriots in my opinion and should keep up the wonderful work.  Its rather sickening to read what exactly is going on.  A lot of "spy vs. spy" pointless nonsense and total government waste.

This whole things really shines light on how big of a mess the world and the United States really are.  Its like a giant game at the top meanwhile the lowly people and citizens just continue to suffer.


Its obvious way over any one man`s head and charge and is but a giant industry of subterfuge.

How can they be patriots when they're not American citizens? 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 01:54:43 PM
How can they be patriots when they're not American citizens? 
Uh, do you not know where the info is coming from?  Also, Wikileaks is not just one man nor is it a foreign entity.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 01:56:43 PM
How can they be patriots when they're not American citizens? 
Furthermore, what does being a patriot have to do with being an american?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 01:59:58 PM
Uh, do you not know where the info is coming from?  Also, Wikileaks is not just one man nor is it a foreign entity.

You said "WikiLeaks are true patriots."  My question, again, is how can they be "patriots" when the company is a foreign company that is owned by someone who isn't an American citizen?   
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:01:32 PM
Furthermore, what does being a patriot have to do with being an american?

Patriot:  "one who loves and defends his or her country"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

You're saying the owner of Wiki loves and defends the U.S. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:05:22 PM
Patriot:  "one who loves and defends his or her country"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

You're saying the owner of Wiki loves and defends the U.S. 
Why didn`t you post the entire definitions of the word patriot?  (not that it matters in the least bit whatsoever)

Was Alexander Hamilton a Patriot? Patriotism


Anyways, the American soldiers who obtained and gave this information and all those who published or helped it get out to the public are true patriots in every sense of the word.

Especially Bradley Manning, the brilliant 22 year old American soldier.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Kazan on November 29, 2010, 02:08:53 PM
Why didn`t you post the entire definitions of the word patriot?  (not that it matters in the least bit whatsoever)

Was Alexander Hamilton a Patriot? Patriotism


Anyways, the American soldiers who obtained and gave this information and all those who published or helped it get out to the public are true patriots in every sense of the word.

Especially Bradley Manning, the brilliant 22 year old American soldier.

What a surprise coming from you ::) Manning and any other soldier that leaked this information should be tried for treason and executed if found guilty.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:09:30 PM
Why didn`t you post the entire definitions of the word patriot?  (not that it matters in the least bit whatsoever)

Was Alexander Hamilton a Patriot? Patriotism


Anyways, the American soldiers who obtained and gave this information and all those who published or helped it get out to the public are true patriots in every sense of the word.

Especially Bradley Manning, the brilliant 22 year old American soldier.

I see.  So now you're saying the treasonous American soldiers that stole and provided information are patriots.  Are you clarifying your earlier claim that the foreign owner of Wikileaks is a patriot?  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: 240 is Back on November 29, 2010, 02:13:47 PM
from a 'peace love happiness' point of view - he's doing the morally right thing.  exposing lies, theft, murder, etc.

from a 'US retains strategic advantage' position - he's screwing us in the tush.

Really, the people debating it have 2 different views. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:15:33 PM
from a 'peace love happiness' point of view - he's doing the morally right thing.  exposing lies, theft, murder, etc.

from a 'US retains strategic advantage' position - he's screwing us in the tush.

Really, the people debating it have 2 different views. 
Secrets and what they contain become useless to all sides once exposed. The more exposure the better.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Kazan on November 29, 2010, 02:16:14 PM
from a 'peace love happiness' point of view - he's doing the morally right thing.  exposing lies, theft, murder, etc.

from a 'US retains strategic advantage' position - he's screwing us in the tush.

Really, the people debating it have 2 different views. 

There are no 2 different views, the fuck volunteered, here let me say that again volunteered to join the military. Signed a contract and I am almost positive a NDA. Little homo should fry
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:16:18 PM
Oh please.  This is not a gray area.  There is a reason why people need security clearances and that certain documents are considered classified, with the most important being they can be a threat to national security.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 02:16:58 PM
I am at least happy that the lie obama has been peddling about Israel being the main obstacle to a consensus on iran has now been shredded to pieces.  

More lies from the obama Admn. being shredded day after day.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:21:26 PM
What a surprise coming from you ::) Manning and any other soldier that leaked this information should be tried for treason and executed if found guilty.
That is EXACTLY how the Nazi`s justified their crimes.  They were just following orders or they were doing "For their Country".  I guess by your rationale they were at least not treasonous and therefore were not in the wrong whatsoever.

I find your blinded Nationalism appalling. You should be humanistic first and foremost, but alas, you are not.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Kazan on November 29, 2010, 02:26:09 PM
That is EXACTLY how the Nazi`s justified their crimes.  They were just following orders or they were doing "For their Country".  I guess by your rationale they were at least not treasonous and therefore were not in the wrong whatsoever.

I find your blinded Nationalism appalling. You should be humanistic first and foremost, but alas, you are not.

Oh wow a NAZI comparison ::) Another surprise coming from you. Yes lets compare apples to Ferrari's ::) Apparently you don't understand that the rules are different in the military and you can't just do whatever the fuck you feel like without facing the consequence.


Now your are going to tell me how I am supposed to be? Yeah OK a trust fund baby self hating Jew who wears a swastika is a real fine example ::)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 29, 2010, 02:28:13 PM
How can an Australian be an American patriot?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:28:30 PM
Oh wow a NAZI comparison ::) Another surprise coming from you. Yes lets compare apples to ferrari's ::) Apparently you don't understand that the rules are different in the military and you can't just do whatever the fuck you feel like without facing the consequence.


Do you believe there is any time when orders should not be followed?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:29:28 PM
How can an Australian be an American patriot?

I asked the same question. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:29:47 PM
How can an Australian be an American patriot?

Who is calling him an American?  He is a patriot.  Just like Alexander Hamilton was a patriot who was not an American.  ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 29, 2010, 02:30:33 PM
I asked the same question. 

I find it funny that people think some former hacker turned jet-setting "whistle blower" is some sort of authority figure on what information we as Americans should be privy to.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:31:16 PM
I find it funny that people think some former hacker turned jet-setting "whistle blower" is some sort of authority figure on what information we as Americans should be privy to.
I find it hilarious that someone does not understand that you don`t have to be an American to be a patriot. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Kazan on November 29, 2010, 02:31:34 PM
Do you believe there is any time when orders should not be followed?

What planet do you come from? Apparently you don't know shit about the US military. Soldiers do not have to obey illegal orders plain and simple. UMCJ is there for a reason and why US soldiers are held accountable for their actions
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:33:52 PM
I find it hilarious that someone does not understand that you don`t have to be an American to be a patriot. 

You believe the owner of Wikileaks is releasing this information because he loves America? 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:34:11 PM
I find it funny that people think some former hacker turned jet-setting "whistle blower" is some sort of authority figure on what information we as Americans should be privy to.

Tell me about it.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:34:38 PM
What planet do you come from? Apparently you don't know shit about the US military. Soldiers do not have to obey illegal orders plain and simple. UMCJ is there for a reason and why US soldiers are held accountable for their actions

Ding ding ding!   :)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 29, 2010, 02:34:44 PM
I find it hilarious that someone does not understand that you don`t have to be an American to be a patriot. 

I don't see what's patriotic about what he did. Three weeks from now this stuff will be forgotten, just like the last two "revolutionary" leaks.

You believe the owner of Wikileaks is releasing this information because he loves America?  

Assange hates this country and is nothing more than a propaganda machine. Editing videos to change perception of them = not a Patriot.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 02:34:59 PM
You believe the owner of Wikileaks is releasing this information because he loves America? 

No - but we need to ask how and why this info got to this guy in the first place.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 02:35:48 PM
I don't see what's patriotic about what he did. Three weeks from now this stuff will be forgotten, just like the last two "revolutionary" leaks.

Assange hates this country and is nothing more than a propaganda machine. Editing videos to change perception of them = not a Patriot.


At least israel is at least off the hook for the bs spewed against them regarding Iran. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 29, 2010, 02:37:56 PM
At least israel is at least off the hook for the bs spewed against them regarding Iran.  

Like I said in the other thread (or was it this one, not sure), anyone who didn't think that the entire Middle East despises Iran and wants them destroyed is a fool.

It's cool that Saudi Arabia expects us to fight their battles, though. Then again, the Arab oil lobby is ridiculously powerful.

Funny that it's other Muslims who seem to be taking the biggest warmonger approach to Iran and not the big bad Americans/Israel, though.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:38:24 PM
You believe the owner of Wikileaks is releasing this information because he loves America? 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/patriot
a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:38:35 PM
I don't see what's patriotic about what he did. Three weeks from now this stuff will be forgotten, just like the last two "revolutionary" leaks.

Assange hates this country and is nothing more than a propaganda machine. Editing videos to change perception of them = not a Patriot.


That's certainly the way it appears.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:38:58 PM
No - but we need to ask how and why this info got to this guy in the first place.  

Agree.  Heads should roll. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:41:19 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/patriot
a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.

lol.  You still don't get it.  This is talking about a person defending his own country's rights, not the rights of a foreign government.  If you put the first two definitions in context from the link you posted, it's clearly not talking about foreigners. 

1.  a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2.  a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 29, 2010, 02:42:57 PM
Someone who edits an hour long video down to 10 minutes of cherry-picked scenes in order to stir up anti-American sentiment is not a patriot nor is that individual defending anyone's individual rights.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:44:45 PM
lol.  You still don't get it.  This is talking about a person defending his own country's rights, not the rights of a foreign government.  If you put the first two definitions in context from the link you posted, it's clearly not talking about foreigners. 

1.  a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2.  a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.

Dictionaries don`t function like that.  You don`t just combine each entry as a word is a symbol for sometimes two different ideas or meanings.

Also, Dictionaries are not finite.  You really should look into reading some Steven Pinker as he sits on the board at the Oxford Dictionary in charge of words and definitions.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 02:45:15 PM
I hate to say this - but deep down I believe obama loves this greatly since it gets him off the hook on Iran.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:47:04 PM
lol.  You still don't get it.  This is talking about a person defending his own country's rights, not the rights of a foreign government.  If you put the first two definitions in context from the link you posted, it's clearly not talking about foreigners.  

1.  a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2.  a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.

If we were to listen to you and your piss poor reading of the English language and your self-imposed made up rules, than George Washington was no patriot since he was certainly not defending his or any country country.  He was attacking it. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:48:38 PM
Dictionaries don`t function like that.  You don`t just combine each entry as a word is a symbol for sometimes two different ideas or meanings.

Also, Dictionaries are not finite.  You really should look into reading some Steven Pinker as he sits on the board at the Oxford Dictionary in charge of words and definitions.

I'll stick with reading the link YOU posted.   :)  Whether you want to use denotative or connotative meanings of the word "patriot," it does not include the love of a foreign country.  The term refers to the love of your own country.    

Just fyi, the best way to deal with a mistake is just acknowledge it and move on.  You can maintain a little more credibility that way.  You obviously either misused the term "patriot" or didn't know the owner is not an American citizen.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 02:48:46 PM
WikiLeaked: John Kerry calls for Israel to cede Golan Heights and East Jerusalem
foreignpolicy.com ^ | Monday, November 29, 2010 | Josh Rogin


________________________ _________________



On a February trip to the Middle East, Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman John Kerry (D-MA) told Qatari leaders that the Golan Heights should be returned to Syria, that a Palestinian capital should be established in East Jerusalem as part of the Arab-Israeli peace process, and that he was "shocked" by what he saw on a visit to Gaza.  

Kerry discussed the Israeli-Palestinian peace process in a visit to Qatar during separate meetings with Prime Minister Hamad bin Jassim Al Thani and the Emir of Qatar, Hamad bin Khalifa, as revealed by the disclosure of diplomatic cables by the website WikiLeaks.

The emir told Kerry to focus on Syria as the path toward resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Kerry agreed with the emir that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is a man who wants change but pointed out that his arming of Hezbollah and interference in Lebanese politics were unhelpful. Kerry said that Assad "needs to make a bolder move and take risks" for peace, and that he should be "more statesman-like." Kerry also agreed with the emir that the Golan Heights should be given back to Syria at some point.


(Excerpt) Read more at thecable.foreignpolicy.c om ...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Kazan on November 29, 2010, 02:51:01 PM
If we were to listen to you and your piss poor reading of the English language and your self-imposed made up rules, than George Washington was no patriot since he was certainly not defending his or any country country.  He was attacking it. 

So what now are you trying to compare Assange or Manning to George Washington? The kind of redirection strikes again
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:51:35 PM
If we were to listen to you and your piss poor reading of the English language and your self-imposed made up rules, than George Washington was no patriot since he was certainly not defending his or any country country.  He was attacking it. 

Again, completely nonsensical.  We're talking about a foreigner attacking the U.S., and you calling that attack patriotic.  A more appropriate example would be a British general harming the colonies and calling that (soon-to-be) American patriotism.  It would be wrong, but more in line with your idiotic comments.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on November 29, 2010, 02:52:11 PM
So what now are you trying to compare Assange or Manning to George Washington? The kind of redirection strikes again

lol.  Pretty pathetic. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 02:55:10 PM
WikiLeaks: Russians smell anti-Obama conspiracy
csmonitor.com ^ | November 29, 2010 | Fred Weir





In Russia, the motherland of conspiracy theories, almost no one believes that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks are free agents acting on a desire to crack official secrecy and broaden the horizons of public awareness.

Although the more than a quarter-million secret US diplomatic cables spilled into cyberspace by WikiLeaks on Sunday include just 3,337 reports prepared by the US Embassy in Moscow, many Russians are already viewing it as part of a plot by American hardliners to discredit President Obama and, perhaps, to undermine his fragile efforts to “reset” US-Russia relations. ....

“I have no doubt that this was a prepared operation, probably by [the] US secret services," says Alexei Mukhin, director of the independent Center for Political Information in Moscow. “I find it improbable that US authorities couldn't deal with one guy (Mr. Assange) if they really wanted to. No, this is clearly being done as an instrument of destabilization," he says.

The most popular theory is that the massive outing of classified State Department communications is designed to make Obama look weak, inept, and unable to control his own government machinery.

“This will obviously damage Obama and his policies,” says Sergei Strokan, a foreign affairs columnist with the Moscow business daily Kommersant. “Obama made a strong emphasis on international affairs, outreach to the Muslim world, and resetting relations with Russia. These leaks show that many diplomats take a privately cynical view of those goals, or are actually working at cross purposes to them. All these disclosures will be a serious blow to America's new image in the world, and will only undercut Obama.”

Mr. Strokan adds that coming just after the mid-term elections in the US, the leaks are likely to benefit Obama’s Republican opponents.


(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on November 29, 2010, 02:58:58 PM
WikiLeaks: Russians smell anti-Obama conspiracy
csmonitor.com ^ | November 29, 2010 | Fred Weir





In Russia, the motherland of conspiracy theories, almost no one believes that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks are free agents acting on a desire to crack official secrecy and broaden the horizons of public awareness.

Although the more than a quarter-million secret US diplomatic cables spilled into cyberspace by WikiLeaks on Sunday include just 3,337 reports prepared by the US Embassy in Moscow, many Russians are already viewing it as part of a plot by American hardliners to discredit President Obama and, perhaps, to undermine his fragile efforts to “reset” US-Russia relations. ....

“I have no doubt that this was a prepared operation, probably by [the] US secret services," says Alexei Mukhin, director of the independent Center for Political Information in Moscow. “I find it improbable that US authorities couldn't deal with one guy (Mr. Assange) if they really wanted to. No, this is clearly being done as an instrument of destabilization," he says.

The most popular theory is that the massive outing of classified State Department communications is designed to make Obama look weak, inept, and unable to control his own government machinery.

“This will obviously damage Obama and his policies,” says Sergei Strokan, a foreign affairs columnist with the Moscow business daily Kommersant. “Obama made a strong emphasis on international affairs, outreach to the Muslim world, and resetting relations with Russia. These leaks show that many diplomats take a privately cynical view of those goals, or are actually working at cross purposes to them. All these disclosures will be a serious blow to America's new image in the world, and will only undercut Obama.”

Mr. Strokan adds that coming just after the mid-term elections in the US, the leaks are likely to benefit Obama’s Republican opponents.


(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


Not surprising that the Russians love Obama. They love having a weak American president that they continue to walk all over.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:59:18 PM
I'll stick with reading the link YOU posted.   :)  Whether you want to use denotative or connotative meanings of the word "patriot," it does not include the love of a foreign country.  The term refers to the love of your own country.    

Just fyi, the best way to deal with a mistake is just acknowledge it and move on.  You can maintain a little more credibility that way.  You obviously either misused the term "patriot" or didn't know the owner is not an American citizen.  
???

a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 03:15:36 PM
FROM DRUDGE

King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia proposed planting chips in Gitmo prisoners upon release... Developing...
China 'ready to abandon North Korea'...
USA RACES TO LIMIT WIKILEAKS DAMAGE...
250,000 State Dept. cables cover Iran, NKorea, Putin... MORE
Reveal: Iran 'smuggled arms' to Hezbollah on ambulances...
Reveal: Hillary Clinton ordered diplomats to spy on UN leaders...
Reveal: Iran obtained missiles from NKorea...
What America REALLY thinks of world leaders...
MOST EMBARRASSING, DAMAGING DISCLOSURE IN DECADES...
Clinton Calls Leaks A Global 'Attack'...
AWKWARD: Clinton heads abroad, will meet world leaders dissed in cables...
Reveal: Saudis repeatedly urge US attack on Iran...
SENATORS: PROSECUTE THE LEAKERS!
NYT EXPLAINS: DECISION TO PUBLISH...
Now Australian police investigate Assange...
France: Leaks threaten democracy...
Rep King: Website leaks are terrorism...
Holder orders criminal investigation...
PALIN: Obama admin's handling 'incompetent'...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 29, 2010, 03:43:39 PM
Why hasn't Mr King gone on the offense of our own papers that published this such as the NYT?  Are they now going to be a terrorist organization as well?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 03:45:48 PM
Because if it was not nyt it would be someone else. 

They need to figure out who gave this to wikileaks in the first place and drop the hammer. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 29, 2010, 03:54:08 PM
Because if it was not nyt it would be someone else. 

They need to figure out who gave this to wikileaks in the first place and drop the hammer. 

The point is, Wikileaks didn't obtain the documents, as in they did not enter US computer systems illegally, they just published what was received from their source.  So calling for them to be thrown in the terrorist group is just political grandstanding at best.  If they are labeled terrorists, so should every single news outlet the published the documents.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 03:57:51 PM
I meant the guy in the service who gave the materials to wikileaks is mostly to blame. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 29, 2010, 04:32:27 PM
I meant the guy in the service who gave the materials to wikileaks is mostly to blame. 

Obviously, but I'm not talking about him.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Lundgren on November 29, 2010, 05:29:26 PM
Like I said in the other thread (or was it this one, not sure), anyone who didn't think that the entire Middle East despises Iran and wants them destroyed is a fool.

It's cool that Saudi Arabia expects us to fight their battles, though. Then again, the Arab oil lobby is ridiculously powerful.

Funny that it's other Muslims who seem to be taking the biggest warmonger approach to Iran and not the big bad Americans/Israel, though.
Your simlifying shit. It ain't simple if you mean the goverments somewhat, this american obsession with trying to find a simple way to group 300 million people together is getting old. Sure alot of the governments are anti Iranian, because their a power house, just like canada/america get annoyed with america. It's not a surprise regardless this shit won't change shit.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 06:42:56 PM
China 'scared to death' of Pelosi: leaked cable
Nov 29 07:18 PM US/Eastern



China was "scared to death" over a visit by US Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who is outspoken on human rights, and rejected her request to visit to Tibet, according to files leaked Monday.

A top diplomat at the US embassy in Beijing said he asked China to consider letting Pelosi go to Tibet during her May 2009 visit to China, according to a cable obtained by whistleblower site WikiLeaks.

Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei responded that China could not arrange the trip due to Pelosi's "tight schedule," according to the cable reprinted by Britain's Guardian newspaper.

The Chinese ambassador in Kazakhstan was blunter, telling his US counterpart over an expansive dinner that Beijing was "fearful" over Pelosi's visit.

"She had the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) scared to death on the eve of her visit," Ambassador Cheng Guoping was quoted as saying in the classified memo by US Ambassador Richard Hoagland.

Pelosi, whose congressional district includes San Francisco's Chinatown, is a vocal supporter of Chinese democracy activists and Tibet's exiled spiritual leader the Dalai Lama.

Her visit last year came just a week before the 20th anniversary of China's crackdown on student protests in Tiananmen Square. On a previous trip, Pelosi unfurled a banner in Tiananmen Square in remembrance of those killed.

But Pelosi's last trip went off without incident as she mostly focused on cooperation between China and the United States in fighting climate change.

Pelosi is set to lose the speaker's gavel in January after her Democratic Party suffered a major election defeat earlier this month and lost control of the House of Representatives.

In one of her last trips, Pelosi will head to Oslo for Chinese activist Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Peace Prize ceremony, according to the Nobel Institute.



Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 06:47:46 PM
Beijing 'Ready To Abandon North Korea'
Sky News ^


10:32pm UK, Monday November 29, 2010

Katie Cassidy, Sky News Online

China is ready to distance itself from North Korea and accept reunification with the South, according to more leaked diplomatic documents.

Amid the cables obtained by WikiLeaks are details about Beijing's frustration with its Communist neighbour.

The Guardian, which is one of the newspapers given direct access to the leaked information, reports senior Chinese officials regard Pyongyang as a "spoiled child".

One senior Chinese diplomat is said to have told an American ambassador that younger generation Communist party leaders no longer regarded North Korea as a useful or reliable ally.

Furthermore, Beijing anticipates the regime will collapse after the death of current leader Kim Jong-Il.

Sky's security editor Sam Kiley said the revelation was sensational.

"Up until now WikiLeaks has told us things we could assume - but this is explosive," he said.

"This is Chinese officials talking to American diplomats, describing North Korea - a close ally that the Chinese have been supporting for decades and supported in a war with the UN - as a 'spoilt child'.

"They also refer to North Korea's nuclear capability as potentially destabilising to world peace.

"This effectively puts the Chinese very much in the American camp in terms of their analysis, at least.

"It is an enormous shift from China's public position, which has supported North Korea, to their private position in talks with American officials


(Excerpt) Read more at news.sky.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on November 29, 2010, 06:48:48 PM
Funny how a relative of mine just got back from Tibet 2 weeks ago yet they wouldn't let her in.  Obvious cat is obvious.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 29, 2010, 06:58:18 PM
Funny how a relative of mine just got back from Tibet 2 weeks ago yet they wouldn't let her in.  Obvious cat is obvious.

Why?  I hate that which too.  I would get a crucifix and string of garlic and holy water if she ever came near me. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Lundgren on November 29, 2010, 07:08:00 PM
Beijing 'Ready To Abandon North Korea'
Sky News ^


10:32pm UK, Monday November 29, 2010

Katie Cassidy, Sky News Online

China is ready to distance itself from North Korea and accept reunification with the South, according to more leaked diplomatic documents.

Amid the cables obtained by WikiLeaks are details about Beijing's frustration with its Communist neighbour.

The Guardian, which is one of the newspapers given direct access to the leaked information, reports senior Chinese officials regard Pyongyang as a "spoiled child".

One senior Chinese diplomat is said to have told an American ambassador that younger generation Communist party leaders no longer regarded North Korea as a useful or reliable ally.

Furthermore, Beijing anticipates the regime will collapse after the death of current leader Kim Jong-Il.

Sky's security editor Sam Kiley said the revelation was sensational.

"Up until now WikiLeaks has told us things we could assume - but this is explosive," he said.

"This is Chinese officials talking to American diplomats, describing North Korea - a close ally that the Chinese have been supporting for decades and supported in a war with the UN - as a 'spoilt child'.

"They also refer to North Korea's nuclear capability as potentially destabilising to world peace.

"This effectively puts the Chinese very much in the American camp in terms of their analysis, at least.

"It is an enormous shift from China's public position, which has supported North Korea, to their private position in talks with American officials


(Excerpt) Read more at news.sky.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lol and the amateur assertions begin. We all know china ain't got a shred of interest in north korea, the only reason they defend them is to avoid shit from failing apart. The whole goings on last week are part of the downfall of the dynasty, anyone aside from american's knows that revolutions are fucking bad they breed instabilty(money wise), and shove a unwanted load of garbage onto it's neighbours.

China's role will be to maintain stability in NK by supporting whoever comes out of the military/dynasty best able to maintain stability, their ability to do this, is nullified, if they go alongside the west, in a full out disapproval on all things north Korean. Chinese get shit done and they don't ask for no fucking names/rights details etc.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 30, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
Skip to comments.

Wikileaks: US Never Expected Ratzinger Elected as Pope
Custos Fidei ^ | November 30, 2010






Wikileaks information has been disclosed by Rome Reports that the U.S. intelligence services were completely caught off guard and surprised at the election of then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.

U.S. intelligence was expecting a Latin American as the next pope, and predicted that then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger would have lost in the first round voting.

The rest from Father Zuhlsdorf:

Before the election the staff of the US embassy to the Holy See sent speculations to Washington about the one to be elected.

“The first factor will be age, the cardinals will seek someone who is neither too young nor too old, because they don’t want to have another funeral and conclave quickly” but “they also want to avoid having a long pontificate like that of John Paul II.”  Furthermore, “it will be a person in reasonably good health”.  Another element will be “linguistic ability” and he will have to know Italian.


Yes, folks, this is penetrating analysis from the US embassy to the Holy See.

Going on… they opined that it would be a Latin American cardinal.  Perhaps they were glued to CNN.  Had they been listening to FoxNews and people like me (was a contributor at the time) they would have gotten it right.  But I digress.

On the day of the election itself, there was a cable to Washington which pooh-poohed the possible election of Ratzinger.  Apparently the election shocked them.  They were also bamboolzed by media reports that Ratzinger was an “autocratic despot”.  That’s what you get when your remote TV control is stuck on CNN and you hang only with liberal clergy in Rome.  On the other hand, when one of them high up in the embassy met Cardinal Ratzinger  he was described as “surprisingly humble, spiritual and easy to deal with”.

There were speculations about a Rome/Germany axis for the Church.  Lord… did they really have people that dense working in the US embassy back then?  And that was during an administration friendly toward the Holy See.

On 12 May 2005 there was the aforementioned 7 page document “Benedict XVI: Looking Ahead to the New Pontificate” which projected what was going to happen with an “identikit” of the new Pope.  It suggested that this Pope would act in continuity with his predecessor.  It included the line: “in time of crisis the Church finds refuge in European identity.  They also suggested that this new Pope would battle secularism in the USA and the rest of the West, turning his attention also to developing nations, in particular Latin America were there are many disappointed Catholics because a Latin American Pope wasn’t elected.

From what I can glean from the article in La Stampa, the folks in the US embassy to the Holy See were mired in cliches and working from preconceptions which blinded them to the facts in front of their faces before the election.   As a personal aside: about a year before the death of John Paul, I made a bet with another journalist about who would be elected… not whom we wanted to see elected, but whom we thought actually would be.  We could choose three in order of likelihood.  My choice of Ratzinger at the top of the list brought out a laugh of incredulity.  But to be fair I laughed also at his choice of Cardinal Danneels.  That anecdote serves to show something of the mindset of a lot of people floating close to the center of things, those most “in the know” and involved in speculation (a Vatican watcher obsession).

It seems to me that the Catholic Church is fairly important.  The US State Department would do well to put competent, serious people who really understand the workings of the Church in their embassy to the Holy See.

(see Father Z)

(Cross-posted at The American Catholic)

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 01, 2010, 09:57:56 AM
Pakistan 'privately approved' US drone strikes while publicly condemning them: Wikileaks
 Source: ANI


The Pakistan government privately approved US drone strikes while publicly condemning the CIA's covert raids, according to diplomatic cables posted whistle-blower website Wikileaks.

=snip=

A second cable describes the US envoy's 2008 meeting with Pakistan Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani, in which he brushed aside the concerns about the use of Predator drones against targets in the tribal areas, and gave an insight into how he would deny any co-operation.

"I don't care if they do it as long as they get the right people. We'll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it," he told Patterson.

The Pakistani government however dismissed the Wikileaks claims, with a spokesman for Gilani saying, "Our Prime Minister has made a very clear statement questioning the authenticity of these documents. There's nothing more to say."

Read more: http://www.karachinews.net/story/714338
 
 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on December 01, 2010, 10:01:06 AM
Pakistan 'privately approved' US drone strikes while publicly condemning them: Wikileaks
 Source: ANI


The Pakistan government privately approved US drone strikes while publicly condemning the CIA's covert raids, according to diplomatic cables posted whistle-blower website Wikileaks.

=snip=

A second cable describes the US envoy's 2008 meeting with Pakistan Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani, in which he brushed aside the concerns about the use of Predator drones against targets in the tribal areas, and gave an insight into how he would deny any co-operation.

"I don't care if they do it as long as they get the right people. We'll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it," he told Patterson.

The Pakistani government however dismissed the Wikileaks claims, with a spokesman for Gilani saying, "Our Prime Minister has made a very clear statement questioning the authenticity of these documents. There's nothing more to say."

Read more: http://www.karachinews.net/story/714338
 
 


I.e. people we're not actively financing and controlling aka the Taliban/Al Qaeda.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 01, 2010, 07:40:22 PM
Obama and GOPers Worked Together to Kill Bush Torture Probe
A leaked cable shows that when Spain considered a criminal case against ex-Bush officials, Obama and Republicans got really bipartisan.
By David Corn | Wed Dec. 1, 2010 2:47 PM PST


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In its first months in office, the Obama administration sought to protect Bush administration officials facing criminal investigation overseas for their involvement in establishing policies the that governed interrogations of detained terrorist suspects. A "confidential" April 17, 2009, cable [1] sent from the US embassy in Madrid to the State Department—one of the 251,287 cables obtained by WikiLeaks—details how the Obama administration, working with Republicans, leaned on Spain to derail this potential prosecution.

The previous month, a Spanish human rights group called the Association for the Dignity of Spanish Prisoners had requested that Spain's National Court indict six former Bush officials for, as the cable describes it, "creating a legal framework that allegedly permitted torture." The six were former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales; David Addington, former chief of staff and legal adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney; William Haynes, the Pentagon's former general counsel; Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense for policy; Jay Bybee, former head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel; and John Yoo, a former official in the Office of Legal Counsel. The human rights group contended that Spain had a duty to open an investigation under the nation's "universal jurisdiction" law, which permits its legal system to prosecute overseas human rights crimes involving Spanish citizens and residents. Five Guantanamo detainees, the group maintained, fit that criteria.

Soon after the request was made, the US embassy in Madrid began tracking the matter. On April 1, embassy officials spoke with chief prosecutor Javier Zaragoza, who indicated that he was not pleased to have been handed this case, but he believed that the complaint appeared to be well-documented and he'd have to pursue it. Around that time, the acting deputy chief of the US embassy talked to the chief of staff for Spain's foreign minister and a senior official in the Spanish Ministry of Justice to convey, as the cable says, "that this was a very serious matter for the USG." The two Spaniards "expressed their concern at the case but stressed the independence of the Spanish judiciary."

Two weeks later, Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) and the embassy's charge d'affaires "raised the issue" with another official at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The next day, Zaragoza informed the US embassy that the complaint might not be legally sound. He noted he would ask Cándido Conde-Pumpido, Spain's attorney general, to review whether Spain had jurisdiction.

On April 15, Sen. Mel Martinez (R-Fla.), who'd recently been chairman of the Republican Party, and the US embassy's charge d'affaires met with the acting Spanish foreign minister, Angel Lossada. The Americans, according to this cable, "underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the US and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship" between Spain and the United States. Here was a former head of the GOP and a representative of a new Democratic administration (headed by a president who had decried the Bush-Cheney administration's use of torture) jointly applying pressure on Spain to kill the investigation of the former Bush officials. Lossada replied that the independence of the Spanish judiciary had to be respected, but he added that the government would send a message to the attorney general that it did not favor prosecuting this case.

The next day, April 16, 2009, Attorney General Conde-Pumpido publicly declared that he would not support the criminal complaint, calling it "fraudulent" and political. If the Bush officials had acted criminally, he said, then a case should be filed in the United States. On April 17, the prosecutors of the National Court filed a report [2] asking that complaint be discontinued. In the April 17 cable, the American embassy in Madrid claimed some credit for Conde-Pumpido's opposition, noting that "Conde-Pumpido's public announcement follows outreach to [Government of Spain] officials to raise USG deep concerns on the implications of this case."

Still, this did not end the matter. It would still be up to investigating Judge Baltasar Garzón [3]—a world-renowned jurist who had initiated previous prosecutions of war crimes and had publicly said that former President George W. Bush ought to be tried for war crimes—to decide whether to pursue the case against the six former Bush officials. That June—coincidentally or not—the Spanish Parliament passed legislation narrowing the use of "universal jurisdiction." Still, in September 2009, Judge Garzón pushed ahead with the case [4].

The case eventually came to be overseen by another judge who last spring asked the parties behind the complaint to explain why the investigation should continue. Several human rights groups filed a brief [2] urging this judge to keep the case alive, citing the Obama administration's failure to prosecute the Bush officials. Since then, there's been no action. The Obama administration essentially got what it wanted. The case of the Bush Six went away.

Back when it seemed that this case could become a major international issue, during an April 14, 2009, White House briefing, I asked press secretary Robert Gibbs if the Obama administration would cooperate with any request from the Spaniards for information and documents related to the Bush Six. He said [5], "I don't want to get involved in hypotheticals." What he didn't disclose was that the Obama administration, working with Republicans, was actively pressuring the Spaniards to drop the investigation. Those efforts apparently paid off, and, as this WikiLeaks-released cable shows, Gonzales, Haynes, Feith, Bybee, Addington, and Yoo owed Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton thank-you notes.
..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source URL: http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/wikileaks-cable-obama-quashed-torture-investigation
Links:
[1] http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2009/04/09MADRID392.html
[2] http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/spanish-investigation-us-torture
[3] http://motherjones.com/politics/2004/03/longest-arm-law
[4] http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/08/spanish-judge-resumes-torture-case-against-six-senior-bush-lawyers/
[5] http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/04/white-house-joking-about-torture-investigation

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 01, 2010, 07:44:48 PM
meltdown

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/01/obama-bush-torture-probe_n_790804.html#comments

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on December 01, 2010, 08:35:26 PM
meltdown

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/01/obama-bush-torture-probe_n_790804.html#comments


I hope you agree now that Wikileaks and anyone involved with them are true patriots.  How else would we have known about any of this?  I hope more people read and understand everything they continue to put out.  Hopefully, this will shed some light on who to vote for and who not to in the future.

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 01, 2010, 08:38:10 PM
I hope you agree now that Wikileaks and anyone involved with them are true patriots.  How else would we have known about any of this?  I hope more people read and understand everything they continue to put out.  Hopefully, this will shed some light on who to vote for and who not to in the future.



What is your take on this story?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on December 01, 2010, 08:41:38 PM
What is your take on this story?
I knew about this story as Keith hit Obama EXTRA hard on it over a year ago.  I think we should let Spain prosecute them, I also think we should prosecute them as well.

Keith did a wonderful job calling Obama out in April of 2009.

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Benny B on December 01, 2010, 08:44:00 PM
I meant the guy in the service who gave the materials to wikileaks is mostly to blame. 
So you agree that Obama is right to put that soldier on trial, PB?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 01, 2010, 08:49:31 PM
So you agree that Obama is right to put that soldier on trial, PB?

yes

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/wikileaks-cable-obama-quashed-torture-investigation

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: The True Adonis on December 01, 2010, 08:51:54 PM
yes

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/wikileaks-cable-obama-quashed-torture-investigation


That soldier is a true Patriot.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Benny B on December 01, 2010, 08:53:46 PM
yes

ok, so we have now established that you do not want Obama "to fail at every single thing."  :D Congrats on your advancement from idiot to moron on the IQ scale.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 02, 2010, 07:27:39 AM
WikiLeaks Cable: Venezuela’s medical system in disarray
Washington Times - Water Cooler ^ | 12/2/10 | Kerry Picket




Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez lauded WikiLeaks founder Julian Assnage as a "brave man" according to El Universal. Mr. Chavez stated on his state-run TV network VTV:

"The empire stood naked. I do not know what the United States is going to do. Well, they do not care about this. But how many things have been disclosed! They disrespect their allies with all these spying activities!” Mr. Chavez may be referring to a WikiLeaks cable describing his country's health care system.

A WikiLeaks cable dated in December of 2009 and released on Sunday describes Venezuela’s medical system in disarray. (All bolding below is mine)

According to the document, Venezuelan doctors accused their government of “politicizing health care at the expense of the health of Venezuelans."


(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 05, 2010, 06:30:13 AM
WikiLeaks cables: Saudi Arabia rated a bigger threat to Iraqi stability than Iran 
 Edited on Sun Dec-05-10 07:33 AM by Turborama
Source: The Guardian


Baghdad says it can contain influence of Shia neighbour, unlike powerful Gulf state that wants a return to Sunni dominance

Simon Tisdall
Sunday December 05 2010 12.00 GMT -

Iraqi government officials see Saudi Arabia, not Iran, as the biggest threat to the integrity and cohesion of their fledgling democratic state, leaked US state department cables reveal.

The Iraqi concerns, analysed in a dispatch sent from the US embassy in Baghdad by then ambassador Christopher Hill in September 2009, represent a fundamental divergence from the American and British view of Iran as arch-predator in Iraq.

"Iraq views relations with Saudi Arabia as among its most challenging given Riyadh's money, deeply ingrained anti-Shia attitudes and (Saudi) suspicions that a Shia-led Iraq will inevitably further Iranian regional influence," Hill writes. "Iraqi contacts assess that the Saudi goal (and that of most other Sunni Arab states, to varying degrees) is to enhance Sunni influence, dilute Shia dominance and promote the formation of a weak and fractured Iraqi government."

Hill's unexpected assessment flies in the face of the conventional wisdom that Iranian activities, overt and covert, are the biggest obstacle to Iraq's development.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-c...

 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 05, 2010, 06:33:54 AM
WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cashpoint for terrorists  



Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Islamist militant groups such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba – but the Saudi government is reluctant to stem the flow of money, according to Hillary Clinton.

"More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups," says a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state. Her memo urged US diplomats to redouble their efforts to stop Gulf money reaching extremists in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide," she said.

Three other Arab countries are listed as sources of militant money: Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates.

The cables highlight an often ignored factor in the Pakistani and Afghan conflicts: that the violence is partly bankrolled by rich, conservative donors across the Arabian Sea whose governments do little to stop them.

The problem is particularly acute in Saudi Arabia, where militants soliciting funds slip into the country disguised as holy pilgrims, set up front companies to launder funds and receive money from government-sanctioned charities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-c...
 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 05, 2010, 07:11:56 AM
Vast Hacking by a China Fearful of the Web
By JAMES GLANZ and JOHN MARKOFF




As China ratcheted up the pressure on Google to censor its Internet searches last year, the American Embassy sent a secret cable to Washington detailing one reason top Chinese leaders had become so obsessed with the Internet search company: they were Googling themselves.  

The May 18, 2009, cable, titled “Google China Paying Price for Resisting Censorship,” quoted a well-placed source as saying that Li Changchun, a member of China’s top ruling body, the Politburo Standing Committee, and the country’s senior propaganda official, was taken aback to discover that he could conduct Chinese-language searches on Google’s main international Web site. When Mr. Li typed his name into the search engine at google.com, he found “results critical of him.”

That cable from American diplomats was one of many made public by WikiLeaks that portray China’s leadership as nearly obsessed with the threat posed by the Internet to their grip on power — and, the reverse, by the opportunities it offered them, through hacking, to obtain secrets stored in computers of its rivals, especially the United States.

Extensive hacking operations suspected of originating in China, including one leveled at Google, are a central theme in the cables. The operations began earlier and were aimed at a wider array of American government and military data than generally known, including on the computers of United States diplomats involved in climate change talks with China.

One cable, dated early this year, quoted a Chinese person with family connections to the elite as saying that Mr. Li himself directed an attack on Google’s servers in the United States, though that claim has been called into question. In an interview with The New York Times, the person cited in the cable said that Mr. Li personally oversaw a campaign against Google’s operations in China but the person did not know who directed the hacking attack.

The cables catalog the heavy pressure that was placed on Google to comply with local censorship laws, as well as Google’s willingness to comply — up to a point. That coercion began building years before the company finally decided to pull its search engine out of China last spring in the wake of the successful hacking attack on its home servers, which yielded Chinese dissidents’ e-mail accounts as well as Google’s proprietary source code.

The demands on Google went well beyond removing material on subjects like the Dalai Lama or the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre. Chinese officials also put pressure on the United States government to censor the Google Earth satellite imaging service by lowering the resolution of images of Chinese government facilities, warning that Washington could be held responsible if terrorists used that information to attack government or military facilities, the cables show. An American diplomat replied that Google was a private company and that he would report the request to Washington but that he had no sense about how the government would act.

Yet despite the hints of paranoia that appear in some cables, there are also clear signs that Chinese leaders do not consider the Internet an unstoppable force for openness and democracy, as some Americans believe.

In fact, this spring, around the time of the Google pullout, China’s State Council Information Office delivered a triumphant report to the leadership on its work to regulate traffic online, according to a crucial Chinese contact cited by the State Department in a cable in early 2010, when contacted directly by The Times.

The message delivered by the office, the person said, was that “in the past, a lot of officials worried that the Web could not be controlled.”

“But through the Google incident and other increased controls and surveillance, like real-name registration, they reached a conclusion: the Web is fundamentally controllable,” the person said.

That confidence may also reflect what the cables show are repeated and often successful hacking attacks from China on the United States government, private enterprises and Western allies that began by 2002, several years before such intrusions were widely reported in the United States.

At least one previously unreported attack in 2008, code-named Byzantine Candor by American investigators, yielded more than 50 megabytes of e-mails and a complete list of user names and passwords from an American government agency, a Nov. 3, 2008, cable revealed for the first time.

Precisely how these hacking attacks are coordinated is not clear. Many appear to rely on Chinese freelancers and an irregular army of “patriotic hackers” who operate with the support of civilian or military authorities, but not directly under their day-to-day control, the cables and interviews suggest.

But the cables also appear to contain some suppositions by Chinese and Americans passed along by diplomats. For example, the cable dated earlier this year referring to the hacking attack on Google said: “A well-placed contact claims that the Chinese government coordinated the recent intrusions of Google systems. According to our contact, the closely held operations were directed at the Politburo Standing Committee level.”

The cable goes on to quote this person as saying that the hacking of Google “had been coordinated out of the State Council Information Office with the oversight” of Mr. Li and another Politburo member, Zhou Yongkang.” Mr. Zhou is China’s top security official.

But the person cited in the cable gave a divergent account. He detailed a campaign to press Google coordinated by the Propaganda Department’s director, Liu Yunshan. Mr. Li and Mr. Zhou issued approvals in several instances, he said, but he had no direct knowledge linking them to the hacking attack aimed at securing commercial secrets or dissidents’ e-mail accounts — considered the purview of security officials.

Still, the cables provide a patchwork of detail about cyberattacks that American officials believe originated in China with either the assistance or knowledge of the Chinese military.

For example, in 2008 Chinese intruders based in Shanghai and linked to the People’s Liberation Army used a computer document labeled “salary increase — survey and forecast” as bait as part of the sophisticated intrusion scheme that yielded more than 50 megabytes of e-mails and a complete list of user names and passwords from a United States government agency that was not identified.

The cables indicate that the American government has been fighting a pitched battle with intruders who have been clearly identified as using Chinese-language keyboards and physically located in China. In most cases the intruders took great pains to conceal their identities, but occasionally they let their guard down. In one case described in the documents, investigators tracked one of the intruders who was surfing the Web in Taiwan “for personal use.”

In June 2009 during climate change talks between the United States and China, the secretary of state’s office sent a secret cable warning about e-mail “spear phishing” attacks directed at five State Department employees in the Division of Ocean Affairs of the Office of the Special Envoy for Climate Change.

The messages, which purport to come from a National Journal columnist, had the subject line “China and Climate Change.” The e-mail contained a PDF file that was intended to install a malicious software program known as Poison Ivy, which was meant to give an intruder complete control of the victim’s computer. That attack failed.

The cables also reveal that a surveillance system dubbed Ghostnet that stole information from the computers used by the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, and South Asian governments and was uncovered in 2009 was linked to a second broad series of break-ins into American government computers code-named Byzantine Hades. Government investigators were able to make a “tenuous connection” between those break-ins and the People’s Liberation Army.

The documents also reveal that in 2008 German intelligence briefed American officials on similar attacks beginning in 2006 against the German government, including military, economic, science and technology, commercial, diplomatic, and research and development targets. The Germans described the attacks as preceding events like the German government’s meetings with the Chinese government.

Even as such attacks were occurring, Google made a corporate decision in 2006, controversial even within the company, to establish a domestic Chinese version of its search engine, called google.cn. In doing so, it agreed to comply with China’s censorship laws.

But despite that concession, Chinese officials were never comfortable with Google, the cables and interviews show.

The Chinese claimed that Google Earth, the company’s satellite mapping software, offered detailed “images of China’s military, nuclear, space, energy and other sensitive government agency installations” that would be an asset to terrorists. A cable sent on Nov. 7, 2006, reported that Liu Jieyi, an assistant minister of foreign affairs, warned the American Embassy in Beijing that there would be “grave consequences” if terrorists exploited the imagery.

A year later, another cable pointed out that Google searches for politically delicate terms would sometimes be automatically redirected to Baidu, the Chinese company that was Google’s main competitor in China. Baidu is known for scrubbing its own search engine of results that might be unwelcome to government censors.

Google conducted numerous negotiations with officials in the State Council Information Office and other departments involved in censorship, propaganda and media licensing, the cables show. The May 18, 2009, cable that revealed pressure on the company by Mr. Li, the propaganda chief, said Google had taken some measures “to try and placate the government.” The cable also noted that Google had asked the American government to intervene with China on its behalf.

But Chinese officials became alarmed that Google still did less than its Chinese rivals to remove material Chinese officials considered offensive. Such material included information about Chinese dissidents and human rights issues, but also about central and provincial Chinese leaders and their children — considered an especially taboo topic, interviews with people quoted in the cables reveal.

Mr. Li, after apparently searching for information online on himself and his children, was reported to have stepped up pressure on Google. He also took steps to punish Google commercially, according to the May 18 cable.

The propaganda chief ordered three big state-owned Chinese telecommunications companies to stop doing business with Google. Mr. Li also demanded that Google executives remove any link between its sanitized Chinese Web site and its main international one, which he deemed “an illegal site,” the cable said.

Google ultimately stopped complying with repeated censorship requests. It stopped offering a censored version of its search engine in China earlier this year, citing both the hacking attacks and its unwillingness to continue obeying censorship orders.


James Glanz reported from New York, and John Markoff from San Francisco. Andrew W. Lehren contributed reporting from New York.


Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 05, 2010, 07:43:06 AM
Mubarak told US to allow dictator in Iraq 
 Source: timeslive



Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak advised the United States in 2008 to "forget" about democracy in Iraq and allow a dictator to take over, according to a diplomatic cable released this week on WikiLeaks.

Mubarak made the comments during talks with visiting US congressmen to whom he also admitted that he was "terrified" by the possibility of a nuclear Iran, in the cable sent home from the US embassy.

The president noted to the US delegation he had advised Washington against the 2003 invasion of Iraq that deposed dictator Saddam Hussein.

But now that they had troops in mainly Shiite Iraq, American troops should not withdraw because that would only serve to strengthen Shiite Iran next door.

"You cannot leave" because "you would leave Iran in control," the diplomatic dispatch, dated May 27, 2008 according to the website, quoted him as saying.

"Mubarak explained his recipe for going forward," the cable said.

"Strengthen the (Iraqi) armed forces, relax your hold, and then you will have a coup. Then we will have a dictator, but a fair one. Forget democracy, the Iraqis by their nature are too tough," Mubarak said in the cable.  

Read more: http://www.timeslive.co.za/world/article791399.ece/Muba...

 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 05, 2010, 04:04:05 PM
WikiLeaks cables: Spanish PM helped GE beat Rolls-Royce to helicopter deal
The Guardian UK ^ | 4 December 2010 | Andrew Clark


Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2010 12:59:04 PM by sukhoi-30mki

WikiLeaks cables: Spanish PM helped GE beat Rolls-Royce to helicopter deal

Ambassador's comments show commercial interests won out over Britain's 'special relationship' with Washington

Andrew Clark, business editor

guardian.co.uk, Saturday 4 December 2010

Rolls-Royce lost a lucrative contract to supply helicopter engines to the Spanish military because of a personal intervention by Spain's prime minister, José Luis Zapatero, following vigorous lobbying from US diplomats, according to a secret cable from the US embassy in Madrid.

Eduardo Aguirre, the departing US ambassador to Spain, recounts behind-the-scenes diplomatic machinations that helped General Electric snatch a deal away from Rolls-Royce to provide engines for a state-of-the-art fleet of helicopters bought by the Spanish armed forces, a contract estimated by industry experts to be worth more than £200m.

Details of how Britain's best-known engineering company lost out to the Americans will fuel concerns that the so-called UK-US special relationship does not always deliver results.

They come to light after other leaked cables reveal how American diplomats were amused by what they saw as Britain's "paranoid" fears. In the run-up to the May general election, Louis Susman, the US ambassador to London, recorded how Liam Fox, now defence secretary, attempted to win favour with the US by telling him that a Conservative government intended to follow a "much more pro-American profile in procurement".

In the cable relating to the helicopter engine contract, Aguirre portrays Spain's socialist leader as an opportunist, describing Zapatero, who took office following the Madrid train bombings in 2004, as "a wily politician with an uncanny ability – like a cat in a jungle – to sense opportunity or danger".

But Zapatero could be "amenable" to US interests, the ambassador wrote, describing the prime minister's intervention in a tussle in 2007


(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 05, 2010, 04:30:03 PM
UFO details in unreleased cables: WikiLeaks-Files make reference to alien life
The Montreal Gazette / The London Daily Telegraph ^ | December 5, 2010 | Andrew Hough



London-New leaked diplomatic cables set to be published by WikiLeaks will contain fresh details on UFOs, according to the website's founder Julian Assange.

The 39-year-old Australian, who is wanted by Interpol over a charge of rape and sexual assault in Sweden, said there were some references to extraterrestrial life in yet-to-be-published confidential files obtained from the U.S. government.

He did not disclose what information was contained in the diplomatic memos obtained by the whistleblowing website. It also remains unclear when they will be published.

Assange said his website, under considerable strain in recent days over its "CableGate" series of leaks, received emails from “weirdos” claiming to have seen UFOs.

“Many weirdos email us about UFOs or how they discovered that they were the antichrist whilst talking with their ex-wife at a garden party over a pot plant,” he wrote when asked if any of the documents he had received referred to extraterrestrial life.

“However, as yet they have not satisfied two of our publishing rules: 1) that the documents not be self-authored; 2) that they be original."

“It is worth noting that in yet-to-be-published parts of the CableGate archive there are indeed references to UFOs.”


(Excerpt) Read more at montrealgazette.com ...

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 05, 2010, 05:03:27 PM
WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists (Hillary Clinton memo)
Guardian ^ | December 5, 2010 | Declan Walsh



Hillary Clinton memo highlights Gulf states' failure to block funding for groups like al-Qaida, Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba

Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Islamist militant groups such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba – but the Saudi government is reluctant to stem the flow of money, according to Hillary Clinton.

"More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups," says a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state. Her memo urged US diplomats to redouble their efforts to stop Gulf money reaching extremists in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide," she said.


(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on December 05, 2010, 05:15:15 PM
WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists (Hillary Clinton memo)
Guardian ^ | December 5, 2010 | Declan Walsh



Hillary Clinton memo highlights Gulf states' failure to block funding for groups like al-Qaida, Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba

Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Islamist militant groups such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba – but the Saudi government is reluctant to stem the flow of money, according to Hillary Clinton.

"More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups," says a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state. Her memo urged US diplomats to redouble their efforts to stop Gulf money reaching extremists in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide," she said.


(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...



There's a shocker. Been saying that for years. The western world ships Saudi Arabia billions of dollars for oil which they then turn around and funnel to terrorists as well as into mosque building (spreading sharia).  >:(
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 09:51:55 AM
Julian Assange Arrested:  Turned himself in to a London police station this morning and was arrested on behalf of Sweden.  He appeared before court and was repeatedly denied bail.  Wikileaks tweeted that they'll still be releasing more cables tonight and the arrest will not affect future releases.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/dec/07/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-live-updates
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on December 07, 2010, 09:53:52 AM
Julian Assange Arrested:  Turned himself in to a London police station this morning and was arrested on behalf of Sweden.  He appeared before court and was repeatedly denied bail.  Wikileaks tweeted that they'll still be releasing more cables tonight and the arrest will not affect future releases.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/dec/07/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-live-updates

Nice. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 01:01:49 PM
I like how he's arrested today and the US State Department releases this (unrelated to the arrest):

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/12/152465.htm

Quote
"The United States is pleased to announce that it will host UNESCO’s World Press Freedom Day event in 2011, from May 1 - May 3 in Washington, D.C. UNESCO is the only UN agency with the mandate to promote freedom of expression and its corollary, freedom of the press.

The theme for next year’s commemoration will be 21st Century Media: New Frontiers, New Barriers. The United States places technology and innovation at the forefront of its diplomatic and development efforts. New media has empowered citizens around the world to report on their circumstances, express opinions on world events, and exchange information in environments sometimes hostile to such exercises of individuals’ right to freedom of expression. At the same time, we are concerned about the determination of some governments to censor and silence individuals, and to restrict the free flow of information. We mark events such as World Press Freedom Day in the context of our enduring commitment to support and expand press freedom and the free flow of information in this digital age.

Highlighting the many events surrounding the celebration will be the awarding of the UNESCO Guillermo Cano World Press Freedom Prize at the National Press Club on May 3rd. This prize, determined by an independent jury of international journalists, honors a person, organization or institution that has notably contributed to the defense and/or promotion of press freedom, especially where risks have been undertaken.

The Newseum will host the first two days of events, which will engage a broad array of media professionals, students, and citizen reporters on themes that address the status of new media and internet freedom, and challenges and opportunities faced by media in our rapidly changing world.

The State Department looks forward to working with UNESCO and the U.S. executive committee spearheaded by the Center for International Media Assistance at the National Endowment for Democracy, IREX, and the United Nations Foundation and the many civil society organizations they have brought together in support of the organization of events unfolding in Washington."

Out of touch with reality much?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: 240 is Back on December 07, 2010, 01:21:59 PM
never let a crisis go to waste.

rahm emanuel is laughing in chi-town right now
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on December 07, 2010, 03:31:27 PM
Things often have a way of working themselves out.  We saw that with OJ.  I hope this guy spends many years in prison. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 03:39:00 PM
Things often have a way of working themselves out.  We saw that with OJ.  I hope this guy spends many years in prison. 

You still hope this knowing that if this does turn out to be the case he'll release everything uncensored which will undoubtedly cause major damage?

I fail to see the logic.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on December 07, 2010, 03:43:24 PM
You still hope this knowing that if this does turn out to be the case he'll release everything uncensored which will undoubtedly cause major damage?

I fail to see the logic.

I don't believe he will indefinitely hold or destroy whatever damaging information he has.  He'll release whatever he has when it's most advantageous for him to do so. 

It's actually kinda funny that he's making this threat to try and preserve his sorry rear end. 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 03:50:07 PM
I don't believe he will indefinitely hold or destroy whatever damaging information he has.  He'll release whatever he has when it's most advantageous for him to do so. 

It's actually kinda funny that he's making this threat to try and preserve his sorry rear end. 

He withheld documents from the previous release, so again, I fail to see the logic.  I guess you would have him threaten to get angry and throw a tantrum because people are calling for him to be assassinated?  Would that be a more appropriate reaction to threats against one's life?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 03:53:45 PM
He withheld documents from the previous release, so again, I fail to see the logic.  I guess you would have him threaten to get angry and throw a tantrum because people are calling for him to be assassinated?  Would that be a more appropriate reaction to threats against one's life?
he did hold other documents only to release them at a later date, same thing he is doing with the "dooms day" bull shit...

they will get released whether any harm comes to him or not...

what he is doing is taint amount to blackmail, and this dousche bag will still release those documents in the long run anyway...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 04:00:04 PM
he did hold other documents only to release them at a later date, same thing he is doing with the "dooms day" bull shit...

they will get released whether any harm comes to him or not...

what he is doing is taint amount to blackmail, and this dousche bag will still release those documents in the long run anyway...

From what I've read there are still many documents that haven't been released from the original release months ago.  The "doomsday" thing is all of the documents they've been given, unedited, uncensored, that's all.  He didn't even say it was "doomsday" the media coined that phrase, his lawyer said it was of "nuclear" proportions or something like that.

Anyway, what happens to him is completely irrelevant.  Wikileaks will go on in exactly the same way it has and nothing will change, so I don't see why everyone is getting upset over this guy.  I'm more interested in who's pulling his strings, George Soros has been linked to funding Assange which makes things a little more interesting.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on December 07, 2010, 04:01:43 PM
He withheld documents from the previous release, so again, I fail to see the logic.  I guess you would have him threaten to get angry and throw a tantrum because people are calling for him to be assassinated?  Would that be a more appropriate reaction to threats against one's life?

I could care less if he throws a tantrum.  What I want to see is him locked up somewhere.  He is getting exactly what he deserves.

What's illogical is allowing this guy to dictate whether or not we come after him based on some threat to release stolen information.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 04:04:09 PM
I could care less if he throws a tantrum.  What I want to see is him locked up somewhere.  He is getting exactly what he deserves.

What's illogical is allowing this guy to dictate whether or not we come after him based on some threat to release stolen information.  

In your opinion, what's the justification for going after him in the first place?  Why are you not opposed to the NYT or other news sources that released the same information?  Should we be putting the NYT on trial for treason for releasing this information?  Why or why not?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on December 07, 2010, 04:04:55 PM
I don't believe he will indefinitely hold or destroy whatever damaging information he has.  He'll release whatever he has when it's most advantageous for him to do so.  

It's actually kinda funny that he's making this threat to try and preserve his sorry rear end.  

He's been a media-whoring opportunist from day one. It's been documented that he uses wikileak funds to live the life of a jetsetting playboy. He only releases leaks when he wants press or needs money to fuel his extravagant lifestyle.

In your opinion, what's the justification for going after him in the first place?  Why are you not opposed to the NYT or other news sources that released the same information?  Should we be putting the NYT on trial for treason for releasing this information?  Why or why not?

This is among the dumbest arguments I've seen people defending this guy make. Did the NYT come into possession of the leaks? Did they play a role in acquiring them? Nope. They're just doing what any opportunist news rag does.

And it's not like this will be the first time the NYT has blood on its hands.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 04:07:35 PM
From what I've read there are still many documents that haven't been released from the original release months ago.  The "doomsday" thing is all of the documents they've been given, unedited, uncensored, that's all.  He didn't even say it was "doomsday" the media coined that phrase, his lawyer said it was of "nuclear" proportions or something like that.

Anyway, what happens to him is completely irrelevant.  Wikileaks will go on in exactly the same way it has and nothing will change, so I don't see why everyone is getting upset over this guy.  I'm more interested in who's pulling his strings, George Soros has been linked to funding Assange which makes things a little more interesting.
wiki may go on but what will be done is setting of precedence in situations like this...you really think he is just going to sit on that info and not release it?

if he was going to why did he release the info he has?

LMAO fact is going off what he has done we have no reason to believe he will restrain himself now...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 04:08:44 PM
He's been a media-whoring opportunist from day one. It's been documented that he uses wikileak funds to live the life of a jetsetting playboy. He only releases leaks when he wants press or needs money to fuel his extravagant lifestyle.

This is among the dumbest arguments I've seen people defending this guy make. Did the NYT come into possession of the leaks? Did they play a role in acquiring them? Nope. They're just doing what any opportunist news rag does.

And it's not like this will be the first time the NYT has blood on its hands.

exactly this dude has delusions of granduer and as soon as he wants another bump he will release more
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on December 07, 2010, 04:09:12 PM
Some former wikileaks employees are launching their own site but they've already said that they don't have a massive hard-on for America like Assange does and will do their work objectively, something Assange can't say.

exactly this dude has delusions of granduer and as soon as he wants another bump he will release more

Yup.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 04:09:49 PM
He's been a media-whoring opportunist from day one. It's been documented that he uses wikileak funds to live the life of a jetsetting playboy. He only releases leaks when he wants press or needs money to fuel his extravagant lifestyle.

How is this any different from any other head of a media outlet?  The exact same thing can be said of the heads of CNN, Fox, NBC etc.

This is among the dumbest arguments I've seen people defending this guy make. Did the NYT come into possession of the leaks? Did they play a role in acquiring them? Nope. They're just doing what any opportunist news rag does.

It's completely irrelevant who came into possession of them, it only matters who released them, if we are talking about criminal charges.  What evidence shows that Wikileaks played a roll in the actual acquisition of the documents?



Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on December 07, 2010, 04:10:38 PM
In your opinion, what's the justification for going after him in the first place?  Why are you not opposed to the NYT or other news sources that released the same information?  Should we be putting the NYT on trial for treason for releasing this information?  Why or why not?

The justification for going after him is he knowingly obtained (and likely paid for) stolen secret and classified information that threatens national security.  Whether he violated American law is another story.  I'll wait and see what the Justice Department comes up with.  

The NYT didn't release the information.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on December 07, 2010, 04:11:48 PM
He's been a media-whoring opportunist from day one. It's been documented that he uses wikileak funds to live the life of a jetsetting playboy. He only releases leaks when he wants press or needs money to fuel his extravagant lifestyle.


I believe it.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 04:16:55 PM
wiki may go on but what will be done is setting of precedence in situations like this...you really think he is just going to sit on that info and not release it?

if he was going to why did he release the info he has?

LMAO fact is going off what he has done we have no reason to believe he will restrain himself now...

So, lets just use this same logic of just because he hasn't he might in the future.

So because "John" owns a fire arm, I believe he's likely to commit a crime with it in the future, lets go ahead and lock him up because of what he might do in the future.  

I'll reserve judgment until he actually does so.

Beach: What evidence shows that he paid for the documents?  It's common practice for news outlets to pay their informants btw, so I don't get the justification just because he may or not have paid for said information.  American law is irrelevent to someone who is not an American citizen, unless we can of course extradite, in which case he'll be fucked.

The NYT received the documents and publicly released them so I can't see how that statement could be any more false.  They could have easily sat on the documents and not released anything.  Instead they did exactly the same thing Wikileaks did and released information that, in your own words, threatens national security.

So again, how are they exempt and Assange is not?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 04:24:53 PM
So, lets just use this same logic of just because he hasn't he might in the future.

So because "John" owns a fire arm, I believe he's likely to commit a crime with it in the future, lets go ahead and lock him up because of what he might do in the future.  

I'll reserve judgment until he actually does so.
LMAO NO SIR

in this instance john has already committed the crime...

he has already proven his propensity for such actions, so yes it is logical to presume that he will commit such actions in the future...

you say youll wait to judge until he does but he already has release sensitive intel many many times...so what makes you think he will not release the other intel?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Dos Equis on December 07, 2010, 04:25:26 PM
So, lets just use this same logic of just because he hasn't he might in the future.

So because "John" owns a fire arm, I believe he's likely to commit a crime with it in the future, lets go ahead and lock him up because of what he might do in the future.  

I'll reserve judgment until he actually does so.

Beach: What evidence shows that he paid for the documents?  It's common practice for news outlets to pay their informants btw, so I don't get the justification just because he may or not have paid for said information.  American law is irrelevent to someone who is not an American citizen, unless we can of course extradite, in which case he'll be fucked.

The NYT received the documents and publicly released them so I can't see how that statement could be any more false.  They could have easily sat on the documents and not released anything.  Instead they did exactly the same thing Wikileaks did and released information that, in your own words, threatens national security.

So again, how are they exempt and Assange is not?

I don't have any evidence he paid for the documents, but are why are you asking that question when you're assuming he paid for the information?  

I don't know if American law is irrelevant to this guy or not.  Like I said earlier, I'll wait and see what Holder comes up with.  

Your analysis of the NYT doesn't really make sense.  The information was released by Wikileaks.  After it was released by Wikileaks, every news outlet reported the release.  

If the NYT conspired with someone to steal and release classified info, I'd say nail them.  But that didn't happen.  
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 04:36:00 PM
I don't have any evidence he paid for the documents, but are why are you asking that question when you're assuming he paid for the information?  

I don't know if American law is irrelevant to this guy or not.  Like I said earlier, I'll wait and see what Holder comes up with.  

Your analysis of the NYT doesn't really make sense.  The information was released by Wikileaks.  After it was released by Wikileaks, every news outlet reported the release.  

If the NYT conspired with someone to steal and release classified info, I'd say nail them.  But that didn't happen.  

I wasn't assuming he did pay, just asking why that's relevant, when it's not.

Incorrect.  The NYT received the documents PRIOR to the release, they were given time to go through the documents and reported on them when Wikileaks made the release.  You can't seriously argue that just because Wikileaks was the first to receive the documents that they are the only ones liable.  If these documents are such a threat to national security then the NYT should have never published them and they are as liable and guilty as Assange.

Are you suggesting Wikileaks conspired with someone to steal these documents?

Tomy: what sensitive intel that cost American lives and were a threat to national security did he withold only to release later?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 04:47:31 PM
LMAO NO SIR

in this instance john has already committed the crime...

he has already proven his propensity for such actions, so yes it is logical to presume that he will commit such actions in the future...

you say youll wait to judge until he does but he already has release sensitive intel many many times...so what makes you think he will not release the other intel?

Again, it falls into the problem of precognition.  Sure, statistically speaking, if an action is previously committed then it's more likely to be committed again in the future.  It's not always the case, however and we can't presume that it WILL happen, just that it's likely. 

I've yet to see any information that he withheld due to security issues and later released.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I haven't seen it.  If you have links to evidence of this then I'd be happy to read up on it.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 04:52:42 PM
Again, it falls into the problem of precognition.  Sure, statistically speaking, if an action is previously committed then it's more likely to be committed again in the future.  It's not always the case, however and we can't presume that it WILL happen, just that it's likely. 

I've yet to see any information that he withheld due to security issues and later released.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I haven't seen it.  If you have links to evidence of this then I'd be happy to read up on it.
he released 2 times so far that I know of...why wasnt it all released at one time?

LOL youre giving this dousche much more credit than he deserves...he released the 10 us critical points or something the 2nd time around...that seems pretty sensitive that wasnt released the 1st time...

again what makes you think he wont release it? he has already released sensitive intel not only for america but for other countries as well...you think that the intel he has released hasnt had any negative consequences for those involved?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: 240 is Back on December 07, 2010, 04:54:36 PM
i heard tonight that while we frequently charge the snitch who releases the info - we have never actually charged a media group for releasing the info coming from said snitch?

is this true?

He pulled a Newt ejaculated in the face of a woman... he's charged for THAT.  For pete's sake.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 05:00:56 PM
he released 2 times so far that I know of...why wasnt it all released at one time?

LOL youre giving this dousche much more credit than he deserves...he released the 10 us critical points or something the 2nd time around...that seems pretty sensitive that wasnt released the 1st time...

again what makes you think he wont release it? he has already released sensitive intel not only for america but for other countries as well...you think that the intel he has released hasnt had any negative consequences for those involved?

They are doing multiple releases so that news outlets have time to go through the information instead of just inundating them with a huge chunk of information, that's already been discussed by Wikileaks.  They aren't withholding and then releasing, they are doing a staggered release schedule for the above reason, more releases will come over the coming months.  There are TONS of documents that are being withheld that will "never" be released according to Wikileaks due to their sensitive nature, none of that has come out yet, which is the point I was making.

I'm not giving anyone any credit, just asking questions so I can get your point of view, that's all.  Of course the intel is/has had negative impacts, but would we really be crying about this if it were a massive release of China's cables? Would we be calling for his assassination if that were the case?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 05:03:55 PM
i heard tonight that while we frequently charge the snitch who releases the info - we have never actually charged a media group for releasing the info coming from said snitch?

is this true?

He pulled a Newt ejaculated in the face of a woman... he's charged for THAT.  For pete's sake.

I've never heard of the government going after an actual media group either, they've certainly threatened but I haven't seen actual ramifications come down.

As far as those charges go, they are pretty laughable at best.  Why he made Interpools "Most Wanted" list for THAT should tell you just how much bullshit is involved in this whole thing, on both sides.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 05:15:59 PM
They are doing multiple releases so that news outlets have time to go through the information instead of just inundating them with a huge chunk of information, that's already been discussed by Wikileaks.  They aren't withholding and then releasing, they are doing a staggered release schedule for the above reason, more releases will come over the coming months.  There are TONS of documents that are being withheld that will "never" be released according to Wikileaks due to their sensitive nature, none of that has come out yet, which is the point I was making.

I'm not giving anyone any credit, just asking questions so I can get your point of view, that's all.  Of course the intel is/has had negative impacts, but would we really be crying about this if it were a massive release of China's cables? Would we be calling for his assassination if that were the case?
LMAO so you think none of the info that has been released is sensitive?

no we wouldnt b/c it wouldnt involve us, that isnt a suprise...just like china isnt now but you bet your ass they would be if it was about them...

LOL dude believe what you want but the staggard release is nothing more than a way to drag this out and get publicity for this...if he was really only worried about the truth he would have released it privately and not through his website...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 05:32:17 PM
LMAO so you think none of the info that has been released is sensitive?

no we wouldnt b/c it wouldnt involve us, that isnt a suprise...just like china isnt now but you bet your ass they would be if it was about them...

LOL dude believe what you want but the staggard release is nothing more than a way to drag this out and get publicity for this...if he was really only worried about the truth he would have released it privately and not through his website...

I didn't say I thought that none of the information that's been released isn't sensitive, just asking what information that's been released has cost American lives?  This has yet to be answered.

So because it directly involves us we're supposed to censor it?  Makes no sense.  You are either for freedom of information or against it, there's no gray area.  Who then decides what information should be released to the public?  This is a slippery slope that you don't want to start going down.

What good does releasing the information privately do exactly? Put it back in the hands of those that wish to have it censored?  Again, doesn't make a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on December 07, 2010, 05:43:25 PM

  You are either for freedom of information or against it, there's no gray area.  Who then decides what information should be released to the public?  This is a slippery slope that you don't want to start going down.



What, lol?  If that's the case, why not post on the internet your real name, your social security number, your date of birth, your credit card numbers, etc.?  Of course, there's a gray area.

As it stands now, the people responsible for handling the information (in government at least), are responsible for determining whether or not it should be released.  They're human and don't always make the right choices.  And, we could certainly use more transparency.  But there is no rigid line of pro or con.  It must be decided on a case by case basis.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 05:46:24 PM
I didn't say I thought that none of the information that's been released isn't sensitive, just asking what information that's been released has cost American lives?  This has yet to be answered.

So because it directly involves us we're supposed to censor it?  Makes no sense.  You are either for freedom of information or against it, there's no gray area.  Who then decides what information should be released to the public?  This is a slippery slope that you don't want to start going down.

What good does releasing the information privately do exactly? Put it back in the hands of those that wish to have it censored?  Again, doesn't make a lot of sense.
you disagree that it puts not only american lives but the lives of others in jeopardy? really?

LOL the difference is I dont care about china, im not saying im for releasing info on china only that i dont care...let them worry about theirs and we will worry about ours...you think they are for or against this? yet they censor just about everything, media, internet...

What i mean by privately was anonymously...not through his website... ;) for publicity purposes...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 05:47:44 PM

What, lol?  If that's the case, why not post on the internet your real name, your social security number, your date of birth, your credit card numbers, etc.?  Of course, there's a gray area.

As it stands now, the people responsible for handling the information (in government at least), are responsible for determining whether or not it should be released.  They're human and don't always make the right choices.  And, we could certainly use more transparency.  But there is no rigid line of pro or con.  It must be decided on a case by case basis.
good point...

but emmortal you probably wouldnt do that b/c there are ppl out there that would use that info in a negative way, right?




























hmmm I wonder if there are ppl or groups out there that will use the wikilinks info in an attempt to hurt the US....HMMMMMM I WONDER... :-\
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 06:33:04 PM
you disagree that it puts not only american lives but the lives of others in jeopardy? really?

LOL the difference is I dont care about china, im not saying im for releasing info on china only that i dont care...let them worry about theirs and we will worry about ours...you think they are for or against this? yet they censor just about everything, media, internet...

What i mean by privately was anonymously...not through his website... ;) for publicity purposes...

Again, not what I said, I'm asking what specifically has been released will cost American lives?  Can't really put it more simple than that.  I'm not saying there isn't any information that has been released that couldn't cost lives, I'm asking you to cite it.  If you are going to base your opinions off something, then you should be able to cite the hard evidence you've read to base your opinion.  Off the top of my head, I can name two things that have been released that could potentially cause people their lives, I'm asking you, however.

Me not wanting my personal information released is completely irrelevant to the discussion.  This has gone around and around but I've yet to really see why people want him put in jail or assassinated.  Tony, you point out that if he was really "after the truth" then he should have done it anonymously.  That goes completely against your argument that information released will have a negative impact on peoples lives, so again, that makes no logical sense.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: 240 is Back on December 07, 2010, 06:36:32 PM
what is he charged with?  just the sex crime?  spurting in a girls' face after they messed around, and she wasn't cool with that?

most wanted list for that, huh?  LMAO
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 06:41:45 PM
what is he charged with?  just the sex crime?  spurting in a girls' face after they messed around, and she wasn't cool with that?

most wanted list for that, huh?  LMAO

I've read anything from that to the condom broke during sex so they wanted to track him down for STD testing, to it was consensual sex but when the two girls found out about each other that's when they became upset and filed charges.  It doesn't exactly seem clear what happened at this point, just smells fishy =)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 06:45:51 PM
Again, not what I said, I'm asking what specifically has been released will cost American lives?  Can't really put it more simple than that.  I'm not saying there isn't any information that has been released that couldn't cost lives, I'm asking you to cite it.  If you are going to base your opinions off something, then you should be able to cite the hard evidence you've read to base your opinion.  Off the top of my head, I can name two things that have been released that could potentially cause people their lives, I'm asking you, however.

Me not wanting my personal information released is completely irrelevant to the discussion.  This has gone around and around but I've yet to really see why people want him put in jail or assassinated.  Tony, you point out that if he was really "after the truth" then he should have done it anonymously.  That goes completely against your argument that information released will have a negative impact on peoples lives, so again, that makes no logical sense.
LOL and ive asked if you disagree that the intel that he has released is putting ppls lives in danger? pretty simple to answer that...how about the 10 sites thingy

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13624139

read that and tell me you think he is not placing the lives of ppl that man those places in danger...

LOL no no no apparently to you its black and white...

My point was that he isnt soley after the truth he is undoubtedly out for personal gain as well...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on December 07, 2010, 06:46:47 PM

Me not wanting my personal information released is completely irrelevant to the discussion.  This has gone around and around but I've yet to really see why people want him put in jail or assassinated.  Tony, you point out that if he was really "after the truth" then he should have done it anonymously.  That goes completely against your argument that information released will have a negative impact on peoples lives, so again, that makes no logical sense.




It's completely relevant to your absurd claim that you have to be either pro freedom of information or against it.  If we're going off your own logic, you're obviously against it.

As to your other argument, you're asking for proof of casuality and that's difficult, if not impossible, to establish.  Let's just say, hypothetically, that wiki released details about our supply chain and the terrorists used it to attack our troops.  We may never know if they found the weakness through wiki, or just discovered it through happenstance.  So, why not err on the side of caution and simply try to keep the info private?

It's far better to err on the side of caution, then put our troops at risk.  As for killing Assange, that might be going a little far - but the shitbag American who gave him the data?  I've got no problem if somebody capped his ass.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 06:49:05 PM
just an excerpt for you emmortal

"In the message, marked "secret," Clinton asked U.S. diplomatic posts to help update a list of sites around the world "which, if destroyed, disrupted or exploited, would likely have an immediate and deleterious effect on the United States."

The list was considered so confidential that the contributors were advised to come up with the information on their own: Posts are "not being asked to consult with host governments in respect to this request," Clinton wrote.

seems like the dousche bag is putting the ppl who man those locations in danger, wouldnt you agree?

seems kinda contradictory to your stance doesnt it?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 06:56:40 PM


It's completely relevant to your absurd claim that you have to be either pro freedom of information or against it.  If we're going off your own logic, you're obviously against it.

As to your other argument, you're asking for proof of casuality and that's difficult, if not impossible, to establish.  Let's just say, hypothetically, that wiki released details about our supply chain and the terrorists used it to attack our troops.  We may never know if they found the weakness through wiki, or just discovered it through happenstance.  So, why not err on the side of caution and simply try to keep the info private?

It's far better to err on the side of caution, then put our troops at risk.  As for killing Assange, that might be going a little far - but the shitbag American who gave him the data?  I've got no problem if somebody capped his ass.
I was going to say i never advocating the killing of this dousche but a severe beating i would be more thank ok with...ive seen this guy in interviews and he seems like an arrogant numb nut
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 06:59:08 PM
LOL and ive asked if you disagree that the intel that he has released is putting ppls lives in danger? pretty simple to answer that...how about the 10 sites thingy

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13624139

read that and tell me you think he is not placing the lives of ppl that man those places in danger...

LOL no no no apparently to you its black and white...

My point was that he isnt soley after the truth he is undoubtedly out for personal gain as well...

Tony: I already answered your question about that, I'm not sure why you even thought I disagreed about it in the first place.  Just because I ask you what specifically endangered lives doesn't mean I think nothing has, I'm just trying to get you to give me some evidence instead of 10 replies of opinion.

Of course he's out for personal gain, what media outlet isn't?  Again, it's irrelevant to the bigger picture.

Skip: That's pretty much the answer I was looking for, unfortunately it took way too long to get to it and focus was put on people getting defensive instead of just answer the damn question.  The guy who released this to Wiki should be the main focus and more importantly, why did 2.5 million civilian and military people have access to exactly the same information this private did?  Why are people targeting their anger on Assange when we should be asking why the government doesn't have the proper security from stopping this in the first place?

Tony: I don't think you've even asked me what my stance is on this issue, you've just assumed I'm opposed to your stance because I've questioned your reasoning.  I already stated I knew of two instances which would have a negative impact and possibly cost lives, so I'm not sure why you are harping on that when it should be a non-issue.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 07:01:56 PM
LOL then why are you arguing for this retard?

you ask for justification of something your already for?

more for you

"Attached to Clinton's message was a rundown of sites included in the 2008 "Critical Foreign Dependencies Initiative" list. Some of the sites, such as border crossings, hydroelectric dams and shipping lanes, could hardly be considered secret.

But other locations, such as mines, manufacturers of components used in weapons systems, and vaccine and antivenin sources, probably were not widely known. The Associated Press has decided against publishing their names due to the sensitive nature of the information."
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 07:04:40 PM

I've yet to see any information that he withheld due to security issues and later released.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I haven't seen it.  If you have links to evidence of this then I'd be happy to read up on it.
the 10 site leak was on the 2nd round

now whether it was held back the first time b/c of security reasons, who knows?

does it effect the security of the US and its citizens? of fuking course it does
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 07:06:09 PM
please emmortal elaborate on your opinion for us, as apparently what youve been arguing for the past posts isnt it...

so please clarify...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 07:10:34 PM
LOL then why are you arguing for this retard?

you ask for justification of something your already for?

more for you

"Attached to Clinton's message was a rundown of sites included in the 2008 "Critical Foreign Dependencies Initiative" list. Some of the sites, such as border crossings, hydroelectric dams and shipping lanes, could hardly be considered secret.

But other locations, such as mines, manufacturers of components used in weapons systems, and vaccine and antivenin sources, probably were not widely known. The Associated Press has decided against publishing their names due to the sensitive nature of the information."

I give up, it's obvious people can't discuss their opinion without feeling attacked when all I wanted was the "why" of how you formed your opinion.

Not everyone here is interested in demeaning other people for the sake of their own shallow self worth. Some people want to know why others form their opinions and on what facts and actually enjoy discussing these topics without the immature and childish nonsense that perpetuates this board.

That's all.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on December 07, 2010, 07:12:59 PM
Skip: That's pretty much the answer I was looking for, unfortunately it took way too long to get to it and focus was put on people getting defensive instead of just answer the damn question.  The guy who released this to Wiki should be the main focus and more importantly, why did 2.5 million civilian and military people have access to exactly the same information this private did?  Why are people targeting their anger on Assange when we should be asking why the government doesn't have the proper security from stopping this in the first place?



Just because a lot of people have access to the data, does not mean the information is not sensitive or harmful to us.

IDK if you're one of these CT'rs who thinks that a small handful of "well-placed" (but never known or identified) people in government can pull off huge logistical operations, but the reality is it can't be done.  It takes a massive team effort to support our soldiers, protect our security, etc.  And, that puts the government in a quandry because it tries to protect data but is forced to trust a lot of people.  And sometimes, the wrong person gets trusted - as in this case.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 07:25:35 PM
I give up, it's obvious people can't discuss their opinion without feeling attacked when all I wanted was the "why" of how you formed your opinion.

Not everyone here is interested in demeaning other people for the sake of their own shallow self worth. Some people want to know why others form their opinions and on what facts and actually enjoy discussing these topics without the immature and childish nonsense that perpetuates this board.

That's all.
LMAO then by all means bro discuss, ive shown you an example of something that will endanger american lives that was with held the first round and released the 2nd...ive shown that he has a propensity to not only release more but release more sensitive info as the releases go on...weve established its not black and white for freedom of info...

what more do you want?

please clarify your position on this...now it just seems like the stance youre arguing for got dismantled and youre running away...
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: 240 is Back on December 07, 2010, 07:28:18 PM
I've read anything from that to the condom broke during sex so they wanted to track him down for STD testing, to it was consensual sex but when the two girls found out about each other that's when they became upset and filed charges.  It doesn't exactly seem clear what happened at this point, just smells fishy =)


hahahaha epic railroading.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on December 07, 2010, 07:35:37 PM
LMAO then by all means bro discuss, ive shown you an example of something that will endanger american lives that was with held the first round and released the 2nd...ive shown that he has a propensity to not only release more but release more sensitive info as the releases go on...weve established its not black and white for freedom of info...

what more do you want?

please clarify your position on this...now it just seems like the stance youre arguing for got dismantled and youre running away...



He's not talking to you anymore because he's against releasing information.  You can only be either for it, or against - there's no gray area.

I'm against it.  So, I'm going to stop talking to you right.....now!
















Well, maybe after the football season...




















































OK, actually after March........










































But I'll definitely stop talking to you before the next election....
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 07:38:09 PM


He's not talking to you anymore because he's against releasing information.  You can only be either for it, or against - there's no gray area.

I'm against it.  So, I'm going to stop talking to you right.....now!
















Well, maybe after the football season...




















































OK, actually after March........










































But I'll definitely stop talking to you before the next election....
LOL

steelers looked good sunday...hope rapelisburger gets healthy i need big performances from him for fantasy  ;D
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Fury on December 07, 2010, 09:02:31 PM


It's completely relevant to your absurd claim that you have to be either pro freedom of information or against it.  If we're going off your own logic, you're obviously against it.

As to your other argument, you're asking for proof of casuality and that's difficult, if not impossible, to establish.  Let's just say, hypothetically, that wiki released details about our supply chain and the terrorists used it to attack our troops.  We may never know if they found the weakness through wiki, or just discovered it through happenstance.  So, why not err on the side of caution and simply try to keep the info private?

It's far better to err on the side of caution, then put our troops at risk.  As for killing Assange, that might be going a little far - but the shitbag American who gave him the data?  I've got no problem if somebody capped his ass.

Skip dropping the hammer.  8)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: gcb on December 07, 2010, 09:10:47 PM
US got caught with it's pants down - get over it. As for Assange, I'm Australian and I do consider him a patriot.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 09:24:27 PM
US got caught with it's pants down - get over it. As for Assange, I'm Australian and I do consider him a patriot.
LOL pants down???

this d bag deserves what he will get...

why do you consider this guy a patriot?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: gcb on December 07, 2010, 09:30:30 PM
He's done nothing for me to consider him unpatriotic and I consider his activities beneficial.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 09:33:44 PM
He's done nothing for me to consider him unpatriotic and I consider his activities beneficial.
So being patriotic is the default attribute for australians? LOL what has he done for you to consider him patriotic?

you consider putting innocent ppls lives in danger beneficial?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: gcb on December 07, 2010, 09:35:21 PM
So being patriotic is the default attribute for australians? LOL what has he done for you to consider him patriotic?

you consider putting innocent ppls lives in danger beneficial?

I don't believe anyones life has been put in danger - only peoples reputations. And as far as reputations go if you can't do the time don't do the crime.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 07, 2010, 09:41:49 PM
I don't believe anyones life has been put in danger - only peoples reputations. And as far as reputations go if you can't do the time don't do the crime.
LOL so you dont feel that releasing something like this

LOL and ive asked if you disagree that the intel that he has released is putting ppls lives in danger? pretty simple to answer that...how about the 10 sites thingy

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13624139

read that and tell me you think he is not placing the lives of ppl that man those places in danger...

that includes info like this

"In the message, marked "secret," Clinton asked U.S. diplomatic posts to help update a list of sites around the world "which, if destroyed, disrupted or exploited, would likely have an immediate and deleterious effect on the United States."

The list was considered so confidential that the contributors were advised to come up with the information on their own: Posts are "not being asked to consult with host governments in respect to this request," Clinton wrote.

and this

"Attached to Clinton's message was a rundown of sites included in the 2008 "Critical Foreign Dependencies Initiative" list. Some of the sites, such as border crossings, hydroelectric dams and shipping lanes, could hardly be considered secret.

But other locations, such as mines, manufacturers of components used in weapons systems, and vaccine and antivenin sources, probably were not widely known. The Associated Press has decided against publishing their names due to the sensitive nature of the information."

is putting anyones life in danger?  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: gcb on December 07, 2010, 09:49:12 PM
Overblown really - I didn't see you complaining about Climategate which was also WikiLeaks doing.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: gcb on December 07, 2010, 09:56:52 PM
"US Secretary of Defence Robert Gates admitted in a letter to the US congress that no sensitive intelligence sources or methods had been compromised by the Afghan war logs disclosure. The Pentagon stated there was no evidence the WikiLeaks reports had led to anyone being harmed in Afghanistan. NATO in Kabul told CNN it couldn't find a single person who needed protecting. The Australian Department of Defence said the same. No Australian troops or sources have been hurt by anything we have published."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/dont-shoot-messenger-for-revealing-uncomfortable-truths/story-fn775xjq-1225967241332 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/dont-shoot-messenger-for-revealing-uncomfortable-truths/story-fn775xjq-1225967241332)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 07, 2010, 10:26:38 PM
LMAO then by all means bro discuss, ive shown you an example of something that will endanger american lives that was with held the first round and released the 2nd...ive shown that he has a propensity to not only release more but release more sensitive info as the releases go on...weve established its not black and white for freedom of info...

what more do you want?

please clarify your position on this...now it just seems like the stance youre arguing for got dismantled and youre running away...

Some people actually work out on this board, which is why I didn't immediately respond to these last posts.

Again, you've loosely tied your example through opinionated diatribe, not factual evidence.  They announced their plan to stagger releases prior to releasing anything at all, I'd give your argument credence if they had not done this, otherwise it's just conjecture on your part.

Secondly, how exactly could my argument have been dismantled if I wasn't arguing a stance to begin with, let alone state what exactly my stance was?  There's really no need for a dick swinging contest, there's already plenty of threads where you can do that.

Lastly, my stance is that I'm 100% for the release of these documents and Assange should not be prosecuted in any way shape or form.  If Bradley Manning, the person who allegedly stole these documents and gave them to Wikileaks, did in fact steal them then he should be dealt with accordingly.

Nothing is without repercussions, and there most certainly will be plenty on both sides.  Going after Assange is meaningless and will have no effect whatsoever on future leaks of this nature.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: garebear on December 08, 2010, 03:12:52 AM
I give up, it's obvious people can't discuss their opinion without feeling attacked when all I wanted was the "why" of how you formed your opinion.

Not everyone here is interested in demeaning other people for the sake of their own shallow self worth. Some people want to know why others form their opinions and on what facts and actually enjoy discussing these topics without the immature and childish nonsense that perpetuates this board.

That's all.
Are we not supposed to do that?

Man, that's why I HAVE the internet.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 08, 2010, 06:32:00 AM
Overblown really - I didn't see you complaining about Climategate which was also WikiLeaks doing.
did climategate bs put ppls lives in danger?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 08, 2010, 06:32:59 AM
"US Secretary of Defence Robert Gates admitted in a letter to the US congress that no sensitive intelligence sources or methods had been compromised by the Afghan war logs disclosure. The Pentagon stated there was no evidence the WikiLeaks reports had led to anyone being harmed in Afghanistan. NATO in Kabul told CNN it couldn't find a single person who needed protecting. The Australian Department of Defence said the same. No Australian troops or sources have been hurt by anything we have published."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/dont-shoot-messenger-for-revealing-uncomfortable-truths/story-fn775xjq-1225967241332 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/dont-shoot-messenger-for-revealing-uncomfortable-truths/story-fn775xjq-1225967241332)
so you really think that releasing a top 10 list of critical US sites isnt putting those ppl in danger of attacks by terrorist?

really?
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: tonymctones on December 08, 2010, 06:35:21 AM
Some people actually work out on this board, which is why I didn't immediately respond to these last posts.

Again, you've loosely tied your example through opinionated diatribe, not factual evidence.  They announced their plan to stagger releases prior to releasing anything at all, I'd give your argument credence if they had not done this, otherwise it's just conjecture on your part.

Secondly, how exactly could my argument have been dismantled if I wasn't arguing a stance to begin with, let alone state what exactly my stance was?  There's really no need for a dick swinging contest, there's already plenty of threads where you can do that.

Lastly, my stance is that I'm 100% for the release of these documents and Assange should not be prosecuted in any way shape or form.  If Bradley Manning, the person who allegedly stole these documents and gave them to Wikileaks, did in fact steal them then he should be dealt with accordingly.

Nothing is without repercussions, and there most certainly will be plenty on both sides.  Going after Assange is meaningless and will have no effect whatsoever on future leaks of this nature.
LOL im one of them broham

LOL so basically your stance is exactly that which youve been arguing?

LMFAO nice, real nice hahahah
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: gcb on December 08, 2010, 09:25:21 PM
so you really think that releasing a top 10 list of critical US sites isnt putting those ppl in danger of attacks by terrorist?

really?

let's face reality here - if Wikileaks can get them then your enemies probably already know about them
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 09, 2010, 06:20:54 AM
WikiLeaks Cables Confirm Worst Fears of Climate Skeptics
Pajamas Media ^ | December 9, 2010 | Charlie Martin


________________________ ________________________ _________

Domestic political considerations far outweighed any scientific basis for the Copenhagen Accord.

Just a year ago, the Climategate files — a collection of emails, data, and computer source code — were somehow purloined from the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit and made public. Pajamas Media was one of the first news organizations to cover them, with the first breaking news story out within hours of their first discovery (“Hacker Releases Data Implicating CRU in Global Warming Fraud“).

The full consequences are not yet clear, but the files’ release probably led to the collapse of the Copenhagen climate conference — to which the Obama administration had committed no little amount of political capital — and certainly contributed to the public’s increasing skepticism about the supposed consensus of climate science.


In some ways, the most surprising part of the Climategate files was how well they confirmed the dark suspicions of climate skeptics: there really were problems with replicating some of the most quoted results, there really had been some questionable manipulations made so the data would present the “right” picture, and there really was a somewhat covert group, composed of scientists on the “human agency” side of the argument and certain “reliable” environmental journalists, who were working together to suppress counter-evidence and assassinate the reputations of the skeptics.

Almost exactly a year later, Julius Assange and the WikiLeaks website revealed another collection of similarly purloined data. This time, the data was a collection of diplomatic cable traffic among American diplomats all over the world, some of it considered very sensitive — classified SECRET. Again, the purloined messages proved very embarrassing to the authors, although in this case the damage wasn’t just to egos and reputations; the cables did damage to American interests, even to national security.

On December 3rd, the Guardian newspaper in the United Kingdom published one of a series of stories based on the cables, this one titled “WikiLeaks cables reveal how U.S. manipulated climate accord.” The United States really was applying considerable political and diplomatic pressure on other players; the scientific “consensus” had long since been subsumed by the pressure to score a political win. As the Guardian put it:


Hidden behind the save-the-world rhetoric of the global climate change negotiations lies the mucky realpolitik: money and threats buy political support; spying and cyberwarfare are used to seek out leverage.

The bribes — sorry, I mean promised aid — was no mean amount of money. The Guardian reports amounts in the tens and hundreds of millions of dollars. The government of the Maldives set their price at $30 million. With a population of roughly 300,000, that is $100 per person in a country where the average household gets by on $450 a year.


This pressure, however, wasn’t limited to financial transactions: the United States was developing intelligence on the other participants in the conferences.

Seeking negotiating chips, the U.S. State Department sent a secret cable on July 31, 2009, seeking human intelligence from UN diplomats across a range of issues, including climate change. The request originated with the CIA. As well as countries’ negotiating positions for Copenhagen, diplomats were asked to provide evidence of UN environmental “treaty circumvention” and deals between nations.


At the same time, foreign powers — most probably at least including the People’s Republic of China — used sophisticated social engineering and cyberwar methods to get leverage in the upcoming negotiations.

On June 19, 2009, the State Department sent a cable detailing a “spear phishing” attack on the office of the U.S. climate change envoy … while talks with China on emissions took place in Beijing.

“Spear phishing” is an attack in which a carefully customized email message to a particular person, including personal information and promising something sure to be of interest to the recipient, is used to introduce a “Trojan horse” program, and while the cables don’t actually identify the suspects, it’s the same style of attack, and exactly the same exploit, that the Chinese used on Google.


The Guardian article is an amusing exercise in cognitive dissonance. The CIA wanted to collect intelligence on the other participants: CIA, ooh, bad! But it was to push through the global warming treaty. Wait. Global warming treaty, oooh, good! The Guardian writers clearly had some trouble deciding what they really thought.

By the time the Copenhagen conference came around, domestic political considerations inside the Obama administration had far outweighed whatever scientific basis originally drove the negotiations. On the other side of the table, pious public mouthing of global-warming dogma was replaced by straight-out monetary transactions: if you want our agreement, come up with the most cash. And China, South Africa, Brazil, and India were working the process with both politics and less savory means, to make sure they had the leverage to get what they wanted.


The lesson of the WikiLeaks climate cables turns out to be very much like the lesson of the Climategate files last year. The most surprising aspect of this story is how thoroughly the cables confirm the dark suspicions of climate skeptics.

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 09, 2010, 12:14:23 PM
It's completely relevant to your absurd claim that you have to be either pro freedom of information or against it.  If we're going off your own logic, you're obviously against it.

We're talking about freedom of information in regards to the government, not private citizens.  I have a basic right to privacy under constitutional law, the government does not.  The government works for US, the citizens of the United States and to even try and compare the two just shows your complete lack of understanding of the issues involved in this matter.  The relationship of our government and its citizens is pretty clear if you look at what people like John Locke and Thomas Jefferson had to say about it.  Other than defensive secrets (which are fine to keep disclosed for obvious reasons) the government shouldn't have anything to hide and when they do the people of this country should be demanding that they be revealed.  The only reason there would be anything to hide is to cover up corruption.  The government serves the purpose of protecting the citizens, once that agreement has been broken (corruption) or it has done ANYTHING at all other than their best to protect the citizens then we have a moral obligation to overthrow that government.
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on December 09, 2010, 05:38:00 PM
We're talking about freedom of information in regards to the government, not private citizens.  I have a basic right to privacy under constitutional law, the government does not.  The government works for US, the citizens of the United States and to even try and compare the two just shows your complete lack of understanding of the issues involved in this matter.


Of course the two are comparable.  The government has a vested interest in keeping certain information confidential, just as you do.  If information is released that could hurt you, you don't want it out there.  If information is released that may hurt the government, the government doesn't want it out there.

The real issue is the government failing to release information, not because it would harmful, but because it would be embarrasing, show corruption, etc.  That's what need to be addressed.

Second, your statement was addressed at an individual.  Your statement is that a PERSON must be either pro freedom of information or against.  And that's about as ridiculous as your understanding of the issue.





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 The relationship of our government and its citizens is pretty clear if you look at what people like John Locke and Thomas Jefferson had to say about it. 


This is just dumb as hell.  People argue all the time about what the relationship of government should be, and whether or not the so-called "Father of Liberalism" is right or wrong.  And hell, just look at TA's posts on Jefferson.  The only thing pretty clear about the relationship is that everybody has their own opinion.



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Other than defensive secrets (which are fine to keep disclosed for obvious reasons)


How can this be?  You are either for freedom of information, or you're against it - well, according to you anyway.




Quote
the government shouldn't have anything to hide and when they do the people of this country should be demanding that they be revealed.  The only reason there would be anything to hide is to cover up corruption.



You honestly can't be this dumb.  So the government should release people's tax records for everybody to see?  How about we tell the criminals all of our investigative techniques?  Maybe we should release people's work schedules so that the next McVeigh can time his bomb a little better?


Again, the government has a vested interest in keeping some things confidential.  It's a balance and the government doesn't always do a good job.  There's always room for improvement.


Incidentally, foreign countries and terrorists typically piece meal data.  Knowing the deployment of a soldier may not seem like a big deal in and of itself.  Knowing their destination may not be a big deal in and of itself.  Knowing his training may not seem like a big deal in and of itself.  Start putting the pieces together though, and you could have some very formidable intel on a unit.  But, no - the government should give the piece meal data out to satisfy the Emmortals of the world.  ::) 
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Emmortal on December 09, 2010, 06:28:22 PM
Of course the two are comparable.  The government has a vested interest in keeping certain information confidential, just as you do.  If information is released that could hurt you, you don't want it out there.  If information is released that may hurt the government, the government doesn't want it out there.

The real issue is the government failing to release information, not because it would harmful, but because it would be embarrasing, show corruption, etc.  That's what need to be addressed.

I don't even know where to begin with most of this drivel but I'll attempt to reply to it.

No, again, they aren't comparable.  The rights of an individual aren't comparable to the government wishing to withhold information just because they "want" to.  You keep making the ridiculous comparison between individual rights and freedoms which are clearly defined in the constitution to information being held by the government.  There's absolutely no comparison and doing so just shows you're grasping at straws.

Second, your statement was addressed at an individual.  Your statement is that a PERSON must be either pro freedom of information or against.  And that's about as ridiculous as your understanding of the issue.

You seriously can't be that dense.  I don't need to point out the fact that the comment in context was in regard to this subject, or do I?  The discussion was about the release of this information by Wikileaks, I shouldn't have to really point that out but I will because you obviously can't decipher clear context.

This is just dumb as hell.  People argue all the time about what the relationship of government should be, and whether or not the so-called "Father of Liberalism" is right or wrong.  And hell, just look at TA's posts on Jefferson.  The only thing pretty clear about the relationship is that everybody has their own opinion.

So my opinion of it is just dumb as hell because you disagree?  Excellent logic, I'll keep that in mind for any future posts you make in regards to subjects you obviously have no clue about.


How can this be?  You are either for freedom of information, or you're against it - well, according to you anyway.

You honestly can't be this dumb.  So the government should release people's tax records for everybody to see?  How about we tell the criminals all of our investigative techniques?  Maybe we should release people's work schedules so that the next McVeigh can time his bomb a little better?

The only dumb thing in this post is why I'm even bothering to reply to such idiocy.  You're suggesting violating clearly defined rights and freedoms as some sort of valid retort?  Hahaha, jesus dude, you really should think more before posting this shit.  I didn't think people could make up shit like this, but clearly people like you actually do exist.  The world never ceases to amaze me.

Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Skip8282 on December 09, 2010, 07:11:29 PM
I don't even know where to begin with most of this drivel but I'll attempt to reply to it.

No, again, they aren't comparable.  The rights of an individual aren't comparable to the government wishing to withhold information just because they "want" to.  You keep making the ridiculous comparison between individual rights and freedoms which are clearly defined in the constitution to information being held by the government.  There's absolutely no comparison and doing so just shows you're grasping at straws.

Nobody said they should withhold information because they "want to".  In fact, I said just the opposite, you're just not bright enough to figure that out.



Quote
You seriously can't be that dense.  I don't need to point out the fact that the comment in context was in regard to this subject, or do I?  The discussion was about the release of this information by Wikileaks, I shouldn't have to really point that out but I will because you obviously can't decipher clear context.

No, you were speaking in terms of absolutes.  And absolutes are dumb - regardless of the context.




Quote
So my opinion of it is just dumb as hell because you disagree?  Excellent logic, I'll keep that in mind for any future posts you make in regards to subjects you obviously have no clue about.


No, it's dumb because you're arguing a clarity that does not exist.  Way to counter the argument - oh, that's right - you didn't.  ::)



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The only dumb thing in this post is why I'm even bothering to reply to such idiocy.


Yes, we've established you're dumb.  No need to reiterate what I've already stated.



Quote
You're suggesting violating clearly defined rights and freedoms as some sort of valid retort?  Hahaha, jesus dude, you really should think more before posting this shit.  I didn't think people could make up shit like this, but clearly people like you actually do exist.  The world never ceases to amaze me.

Good argument - oh nope, you still don't have one.  ::)
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: freespirit on December 12, 2010, 01:05:01 AM
Title: Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 09:30:38 AM
Wikileaks: Iranian president slapped by top Revolutionary Guard
Times Live ^ | 12/30/10



Wikileaks: Iranian president slapped by top Revolutionary Guard

Dec 30, 2010 3:27 PM | By Sapa-dpa

The chief of the Revolutionary Guard angrily slapped Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in early 2010, as Tehran was still dealing with the fallout from last year's election, according to a leaked US diplomatic cable.

The cable, written in February, said Revolutionary Guard Chief of Staff Mohammed Ali Jafari blamed Ahmadinejad for the post-election "mess" in 2009, which saw the country roundly criticized by the West amid allegations of fraud and tough crackdowns on large-scale protests in Tehran.

The guard was founded after the Islamic revolution in 1979 to prevent dissident activity and is a strong internal force within the country, with economic and military wings.

Jafari is seen as close to the most conservative Iranian elements, but Ahmedinejad himself is also deemed a stalwart hawk.

The cable, titled "He who got slapped," quotes an Iran watcher in Baku, Azerbaijan, who related that Ahmedinejad felt that in the aftermath of the post-election street protests, which turned violent, "people feel suffocated."


(Excerpt) Read more at timeslive.co.za ...