Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Dragon on December 20, 2010, 06:19:43 PM
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http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/88/4/1455
the untoward effect of GH on glucose metabolism persisted after 6 months. However, we have observed impaired insulin sensitivity even after 2 yr of GH treatment (44). This is also supported by Johnston et al. (45), who found increased fasting insulin levels even after 10 yr of GH treatment.
guys... i have no agenda in this shit... i don't sell drugs, nor am i looking for natural-bodybuilding fame in america..... ::) just stating the facts here... yes no scientist got as big as a "dumbshit bodybuilder"
but show me the bodybuilder post-competition or after retirement.. yes he looks like dogshit , probably forever
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http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/88/4/1455
the untoward effect of GH on glucose metabolism persisted after 6 months. However, we have observed impaired insulin sensitivity even after 2 yr of GH treatment (44). This is also supported by Johnston et al. (45), who found increased fasting insulin levels even after 10 yr of GH treatment.
guys... i have no agenda in this shit... i don't sell drugs, nor am i looking for natural-bodybuilding fame in america..... ::) just stating the facts here... yes no scientist got as big as a "dumbshit bodybuilder"
but show me the bodybuilder post-competition or after retirement.. yes he looks like dogshit , probably forever
Newsflash - No one here cares. HtH :-\
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very informative post props
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Same with AAS if you have been using for long enough their is no coming off. Most people will have a very hard time coming off completely because of what it does to your hpta. I would be a lot more worried about having blood sugar problems though.
At least with having low test you just go to the doctor and get put on hrt.
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Seriously, go to hell
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Same with AAS if you have been using for long enough their is no coming off. Most people will have a very hard time coming off completely because of what it does to your hpta. I would be a lot more worried about having blood sugar problems though.
At least with having low test you just go to the doctor and get put on hrt.
exactly. no GH for me ... up the cytomel or something :-\
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I would take it if If I new I would have the money to run a small dose the rest of my life. I really think the anti ageing properties are awesome at a low dose for what I've read and seen. If you are an actor, bodybuilder, professional athlete I could see using it a super high doses.
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http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/88/4/1455
the untoward effect of GH on glucose metabolism persisted after 6 months. However, we have observed impaired insulin sensitivity even after 2 yr of GH treatment (44). This is also supported by Johnston et al. (45), who found increased fasting insulin levels even after 10 yr of GH treatment.
guys... i have no agenda in this shit... i don't sell drugs, nor am i looking for natural-bodybuilding fame in america..... ::) just stating the facts here... yes no scientist got as big as a "dumbshit bodybuilder"
but show me the bodybuilder post-competition or after retirement.. yes he looks like dogshit , probably forever
you don't have an agenda, but you don't know how to use critical thinking either. :D that study says insulin resistance was still Present in patients recieving GH therapy at the ten year mark. They were not bodybuilders and they were still receiving GH therapy when they were tested for insulin resistance. This in no way indicates anything about how GH would effect someone who is gaining large amounts of muscle and losing body fat while taking the GH, and it does not say anything about the permanence of the insulin resistance. They were still on GH during this test. Take em off GH for a few months and get back to me.
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Seriously, go to hell
LOL
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you don't have an agenda, but you don't know how to use critical thinking either. :D that study says insulin resistance was still Present in patients recieving GH therapy at the ten year mark. They were not bodybuilders and they were still receiving GH therapy when they were tested for insulin resistance. This in no way indicates anything about how GH would effect someone who is gaining large amounts of muscle and losing body fat while taking the GH, and it does not say anything about the permanence of the insulin resistance. They were still on GH during this test. Take em off GH for a few months and get back to me.
let me make some cliffs for people like "tbombz" who don't know how to read studies :D
-after study, GH therapy was ceased
-no change in body composition except decreased bodyfat(after couple months) . no increased lean body mass.
-muscle biopsy showed increased type IIX fibers in muscles (aka couch potatoe muscle)
-impaired insulin-stimulated glucose uptake after both 1 wk and 6 months
-impaired insulin sensitivity even after 2 yr of GH
-another study showed increased fasting insulin levels even after 10 yr of GH
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you don't have an agenda, but you don't know how to use critical thinking either. :D that study says insulin resistance was still Present in patients recieving GH therapy at the ten year mark. They were not bodybuilders and they were still receiving GH therapy when they were tested for insulin resistance. This in no way indicates anything about how GH would effect someone who is gaining large amounts of muscle and losing body fat while taking the GH, and it does not say anything about the permanence of the insulin resistance. They were still on GH during this test. Take em off GH for a few months and get back to me.
U have got to be kidding me :D not everyone takes massive amounts of steroids like U, my friend. :D
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you don't have an agenda, but you don't know how to use critical thinking either. :D that study says insulin resistance was still Present in patients recieving GH therapy at the ten year mark. They were not bodybuilders and they were still receiving GH therapy when they were tested for insulin resistance. This in no way indicates anything about how GH would effect someone who is gaining large amounts of muscle and losing body fat while taking the GH, and it does not say anything about the permanence of the insulin resistance. They were still on GH during this test. Take em off GH for a few months and get back to me.
another study showed permanant impairment :D
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let me make some cliffs for people like "tbombz" who don't know how to read studies :D
-after study, GH therapy was ceased
-no change in body composition except decreased bodyfat(after couple months) . no increased lean body mass.
-muscle biopsy showed increased type IIX fibers in muscles (aka couch potatoe muscle)
-impaired insulin-stimulated glucose uptake after both 1 wk and 6 months
-impaired insulin sensitivity even after 2 yr of GH
-another study shows fasting insulin levels even after 10 yr of GH
after study, GH therapy ceased. Key words:AFTER STUDY. Not before or during. AFTER. :)
No increases in lean body mass. But they aren't bodybuilders, and they wrent trying to increase lean body mass. If you don't accept that GH helps bodybuilders grow, you just have no idea what your talking about.
Impaired insulin sensitivity after 2 and ten years. WHILE STILL ON GH. And with no increases in muscle mass.
Dummy ;)
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Tbombz, did U read the study? just asking :D :D
and yes, Gh doesn't help bodybuilders build lean muscle mass. tendons don't count as muscles.
and no, i'm not talking about the individual injecting insulin, steroids, thyroid hormone at the same time
good luck tho ;)
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Tbombz, did U read the study? just asking :D :D
and yes, Gh doesn't help bodybuilders build lean muscle mass. tendons don't count as muscles.
and no, i'm not talking about the individual injecting insulin, steroids, thyroid hormone at the same time
good luck tho ;)
I know some people can get big on steroids only, but to state gh dosen't help BB build lean muscle mass is crazy. Look at the size of pro BB today who take a shit load of gh. Not evey BB is taking gh, but you know the pros are because they can get it and it makes them lean and huge. Even gh15 knows that.
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I know some people can get big on steroids only, but to state gh dosen't help BB build lean muscle mass is crazy. Look at the size of pro BB today who take a shit load of gh. Not evey BB is taking gh, but you know the pros are because they can get it and it makes them lean and huge. Even gh15 knows that.
U are wrong my friend. "ONLY" Gh does NOTHING for building lean muscle mass, and there are so many studys/journals out there it's not even funny.
infact, only taking GH shows to also impair athletic performance, and this isn't just 2,3 studies. ALL studies say so :D
the pro BB takes various hormones to compensate the downfalls of GH ( ex: thyroid hormone for exo GH-induced thyroid downregulation)
come to think of it , pro BBs are pretty smart :D
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U are wrong my friend. "ONLY" Gh does NOTHING for building lean muscle mass, and there are so many studys/journals out there it's not even funny.
infact, only taking GH shows to also impair athletic performance, and this isn't just 2,3 studies. ALL studies say so :D
the pro BB takes various hormones to compensate the downfalls of GH ( ex: thyroid hormone for exo GH-induced thyroid downregulation)
come to think of it , pro BBs are pretty smart :D
Get your head out of studies, for one you don't know how to use critical thinking and evaluate what the significance of them are, and for two studies are always trumped by reality.
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Get your head out of studies, for one you don't know how to use critical thinking and evaluate what the significance of them are, and for two studies are always trumped by reality.
U are right but when many many studies say the same shit, somethings wrong, that's all i want to say. Get your head out of getbig bro :)
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U are right but when many many studies say the same shit, somethings wrong, that's all i want to say. Get your head out of getbig bro :)
I was bashing GH's ability to build muscle years ago, referencing the same bullshit studies you just were. But guess what? Those studies aren't done on bodybuilders, or even weightlifters or athletes. More couch potato fibers? Well what kind of fibers is a sedentary using anyways? ;) fact is, when bodybuilders use GH they grow faster and get rounder, all the while getting leaner. What the mechanism is, what studies say, doesn't mean shit. What matters is it works. besides the fact that basic understanding of human physiology and endocrine system would make one realize why GH would indeed help with hypertrophy/hyperplasia.
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I was bashing GH's ability to build muscle years ago, referencing the same bullshit studies you just were. But guess what? Those studies aren't done on bodybuilders, or even weightlifters or athletes. More couch potato fibers? Well what kind of fibers is a sedentary using anyways? ;) fact is, when bodybuilders use GH they grow faster and get rounder, all the while getting leaner. What the mechanism is, what studies say, doesn't mean shit. What matters is it works. besides the fact that basic understanding of human physiology and endocrine system would make one realize why GH would indeed help with hypertrophy/hyperplasia.
NO, many of those studies were done on athletes. what "bullshit" study did you read, let's see it.
and NO, athletes using only GH do NOT get faster and rounder, they WILL get leaner.
taking only GH does NOT help with lean muscle hypertrophy.
are there any doctors or endocrinogists on this board? lets put this shit to an end.
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you don't have an agenda, but you don't know how to use critical thinking either. :D that study says insulin resistance was still Present in patients recieving GH therapy at the ten year mark. They were not bodybuilders and they were still receiving GH therapy when they were tested for insulin resistance. This in no way indicates anything about how GH would effect someone who is gaining large amounts of muscle and losing body fat while taking the GH, and it does not say anything about the permanence of the insulin resistance. They were still on GH during this test. Take em off GH for a few months and get back to me.
Hey Taylor where again did you do your doctorate ? oh yeah, you read a few websites and 'broscience' posts..
hahaha
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NO, many of those studies were done on athletes. what "bullshit" study did you read, let's see it.
and NO, athletes using only GH do NOT get faster and rounder, they WILL get leaner.
taking only GH does NOT help with lean muscle hypertrophy.
are there any doctors or endocrinogists on this board? lets put this shit to an end.
::) can only lead a horse to water
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U are wrong my friend. "ONLY" Gh does NOTHING for building lean muscle mass, and there are so many studys/journals out there it's not even funny.
infact, only taking GH shows to also impair athletic performance, and this isn't just 2,3 studies. ALL studies say so :D
the pro BB takes various hormones to compensate the downfalls of GH ( ex: thyroid hormone for exo GH-induced thyroid downregulation)
come to think of it , pro BBs are pretty smart :D
Dude they use to say steroids dosen't help athletic performance. Now we know that isn't true. As far a gh impairs athletic performance is also wrong. I work with some professional basketball players and I will tell you that is wrong.
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Dude they use to say steroids dosen't help athletic performance. Now we know that isn't true. As far a gh impairs athletic performance is also wrong. I work with some professional basketball players and I will tell you that is wrong.
i can see how GH could help a backetball player; don't they get messed up knee tendons only after couple years in NBA..
probably worse than soccer players who get to play on a grass-dirt field...
well, do your thang man.
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U are wrong my friend. "ONLY" Gh does NOTHING for building lean muscle mass, and there are so many studys/journals out there it's not even funny.
infact, only taking GH shows to also impair athletic performance, and this isn't just 2,3 studies. ALL studies say so :D
the pro BB takes various hormones to compensate the downfalls of GH ( ex: thyroid hormone for exo GH-induced thyroid downregulation)
come to think of it , pro BBs are pretty smart :D
HAHAHAHAH!!! ;D
I actually thought you were serious for a second ;)
Good trolling, master approved
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HAHAHAHAH!!! ;D
I actually thought you were serious for a second ;)
Good trolling, master approved
no, he's quoting studies that prove the things he is saying. Its just that the studies he's quoting are not applicable to bodybuilders.
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U are wrong my friend. "ONLY" Gh does NOTHING for building lean muscle mass, and there are so many studys/journals out there it's not even funny.
infact, only taking GH shows to also impair athletic performance, and this isn't just 2,3 studies. ALL studies say so :D
the pro BB takes various hormones to compensate the downfalls of GH ( ex: thyroid hormone for exo GH-induced thyroid downregulation)
come to think of it , pro BBs are pretty smart :D
then why almost all nfl are on gh dumbass?
also YES it does things for building lean muscle. I saw it from my own fucking eyes a friend who was using aas for some years started gh at 6iu and 3 months later BOOOM 2x larger, rounder, bigger, not stronger tho same strength as before. also only like 5-10 lbs heavier, but like 5-6% leaner, gh really is crazy for muscle mass, try it.
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then why almost all nfl are on gh dumbass?
also YES it does things for building lean muscle. I saw it from my own fucking eyes a friend who was using aas for some years started gh at 6iu and 3 months later BOOOM 2x larger, rounder, bigger, not stronger tho same strength as before. also only like 5-10 lbs heavier, but like 5-6% leaner, gh really is crazy for muscle mass, try it.
your friend was using AAS too. BOOOOMMMM ::)
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your friend was using AAS too. BOOOOMMMM ::)
he was using aas for years before too retard. then he added gh and 3 months later everything changed. anyway i dunno why argue with you stupid, but i just got a question, why then bbers in the 70-80 were no where near as big as 90-today bbers?
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i was talking about solo GH usage.
using with steroids is a whole different matter
your calling me a dumbass, retard when your the most idiotic stupid shit in this thread
learn to read :D
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i was talking about solo GH usage.
using with steroids is a whole different matter
your calling me a dumbass, retard when your the most idiotic stupid shit in this thread
learn to read :D
You're the retard here, dude.
This is a bodybuilding board, in case you didn't notice.
Who would use HGH without steroids anyways?
Get lost.
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Who would use HGH without steroids anyways?
burn victims ;)
of course thats outside bodybuilding
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Fuck this mess. I would stab a stranger for a good supply of GH! 8)
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You're the retard here, dude.
This is a bodybuilding board, in case you didn't notice.
Who would use HGH without steroids anyways?
Get lost.
i'm guessing thousands and thousands of gymrats across your country :)
so STFU ;)
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i'm guessing thousands and thousands of gymrats across your country :)
so STFU ;)
You're really stupid, aren't you?
Most "gym rats" can't even afford running HGH, but those who do are smart enough to do it with steroids.
Most if not all olympic athletes are on HGH, and some natural claiming idiot from Korea wants to tell me HGH are worthless?
GO back to your cave, bitch.
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poor tbom,,need to argue with you something that is so obvious,,ALL ATHELTES ARE ON GH,,SYNTETIC GH IS THE REASON YOU SEE FELLAS WALK SINGLE DIGIT WITH ANY SIGNIFICANT SIZE ON THEM ,,AND SIGIFICANT SIZE IS ANYTHING AROUND AND OVER 220LB AT SINGLE DIGIT 6-10% AT 5'10
HGH IS THE CULPRIT OF BODYBUILDING ,,, IT IS THE GRAIL OF ALL GRAILS,,IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT DRUG IN THE BODYBUILDER ARSENAL,,YOU CANT EVEN START TO UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT HGH IS UNTIL YOU BEEN ON LEGIT HGH FOR A FEW WEEKS,,
ONLY WHEN YOU SEE THAT YOU CAN EAT SHIT ALL DAY LONG ,,YOU CAN DRINK SUGAR ALL DAY LONG AND YET YOU GO DOWN FROM 15% TO 9% LIKE THERE IS NO TOMOROW WITHIN 2 MONTHS ,,ONLY THEN YOU UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF GH ,,FOR YOU GO DOWN TO SINGLE DIGIT AND GROW IN LEAN SIZE BECAUE WEIGHT GO UP! YES YOU HOLD SOEM WATER,,BUT ALL THIS WATER IS NONE SIGNIFICANT,,YOU CAN TELL YOU ARE LEAN THE MUSCLE PUSH FROM THE SKIN OUT,,YOU HAVE BLURR ABDOMINAL BUT THE LINES ARE THERE,,THE MOMENT YOU GET OFF THAT GH FOR COUPLE WEEKS YOU ACTUALLY SEE THAT WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE 9% YOU ACTUALLY WAS 7%,,AND GUESS WHAT YOU WENT FROM 220 TO.....225 FROM FATZO 220 TOOOOO LEAN MEAN 225,,THATS HUGE FOR 2 MONTHS GH ,,NOW TAKE THIS AND MULTIPLY THE 4-5IU GH BY 3 AND MULTIPLY DURATION OF INTAKE BY 3 AND SEE WHAT YOU GET.......GH15 SHALL TELL YOU WHAT YOU GET,,,YOU GET KYOSHI MOODY ,,YOU GET SKIP LACOUR,, YOU GET LAYME NORTON ,,YOU GET THE RODRIGEZ BROTHERS,,ADD INSULIN AND SOME SEO DO IT FOR LIFE FROM YOUNG AGE 20S AND UNDER AND YOU GET.....YOU GOT THAT RIGHT PUPILS,,YOU GET LIAR PRIEST AND PHILIP HEATH!
gh15 approved
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poor tbom,,need to argue with you something that is so obvious,,ALL ATHELTES ARE ON GH,,SYNTETIC GH IS THE REASON YOU SEE FELLAS WALK SINGLE DIGIT WITH ANY SIGNIFICANT SIZE ON THEM ,,AND SIGIFICANT SIZE IS ANYTHING AROUND AND OVER 220LB AT SINGLE DIGIT 6-10% AT 5'10
HGH IS THE CULPRIT OF BODYBUILDING ,,, IT IS THE GRAIL OF ALL GRAILS,,IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT DRUG IN THE BODYBUILDER ARSENAL,,YOU CANT EVEN START TO UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT HGH IS UNTIL YOU BEEN ON LEGIT HGH FOR A FEW WEEKS,,
ONLY WHEN YOU SEE THAT YOU CAN EAT SHIT ALL DAY LONG ,,YOU CAN DRINK SUGAR ALL DAY LONG AND YET YOU GO DOWN FROM 15% TO 9% LIKE THERE IS NO TOMOROW WITHIN 2 MONTHS ,,ONLY THEN YOU UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF GH ,,FOR YOU GO DOWN TO SINGLE DIGIT AND GROW IN LEAN SIZE BECAUE WEIGHT GO UP! YES YOU HOLD SOEM WATER,,BUT ALL THIS WATER IS NONE SIGNIFICANT,,YOU CAN TELL YOU ARE LEAN THE MUSCLE PUSH FROM THE SKIN OUT,,YOU HAVE BLURR ABDOMINAL BUT THE LINES ARE THERE,,THE MOMENT YOU GET OFF THAT GH FOR COUPLE WEEKS YOU ACTUALLY SEE THAT WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE 9% YOU ACTUALLY WAS 7%,,AND GUESS WHAT YOU WENT FROM 220 TO.....225 FROM FATZO 220 TOOOOO LEAN MEAN 225,,THATS HUGE FOR 2 MONTHS GH ,,NOW TAKE THIS AND MULTIPLY THE 4-5IU GH BY 3 AND MULTIPLY DURATION OF INTAKE BY 3 AND SEE WHAT YOU GET.......GH15 SHALL TELL YOU WHAT YOU GET,,,YOU GET KYOSHI MOODY ,,YOU GET SKIP LACOUR,, YOU GET LAYME NORTON ,,YOU GET THE RODRIGEZ BROTHERS,,ADD INSULIN AND SOME SEO DO IT FOR LIFE FROM YOUNG AGE 20S AND UNDER AND YOU GET.....YOU GOT THAT RIGHT PUPILS,,YOU GET LIAR PRIEST AND PHILIP HEATH!
No offense GH15 but I doubt too many people here want to be Layne Nortons lack of size. :)
gh15 approved
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i back dragon up here.
scientifically speaking there has not been a single study that has shown gh to have any muscle building properties worth talking about.
certainly none worth the deadly life reducing risks.
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laine notrom is nto lacking size,,he lack genetic respond to hormones,,he has good size ,,he is large ,,he could be bigger but he go for 2-4 iu gh ,,thats what he can afford and thats what wil let him compete in natural and thought of as natural ,,kyomi kooshi already lost his damn mind and just dont care....
i keep tellin you my friends,,over and over and over,,
the diff between layen nortom and jason cutler rest in little number called 20-25 extra unit of growth hormone a day ,,that is it my friends,,
one uses it from a natural lol point of use
the other use it from a burn victim point of use
one is 200
the other is 260
give about 15-20lb height diference,,and you have 80lb diff due to usage of gh at 5-6 times the doses
this is bodybuilding my friends,,when package insert say 15+ iu for growing they realy mean it,,you think they joke you are poor so you do 5 iu ,,jason cutler was smart,,had the right contact and did 20 ,,as simple as that,,thats why he look 4 time your size lol very very simple concept my friendly friends
gh15 approved
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i back dragon up here.
scientifically speaking there has not been a single study that has shown gh to have any muscle building properties worth talking about.
certainly none worth the deadly life reducing risks.
i can assure you my friend,,that legit gh is the only reason a bodybuilder look different than you ,,ALWAYS LOOK AT THE HANDS,,THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOK THICKER AND MEATIER ON BODYBUILDER THAT IS SERIOUS,,THATS BECAUSE THEY LIVE FROM GH KIT TO GH KIT,,THEY ARE FIRST AND FORMOST ADDICTED TO GH ,,THEY WILL DO ANYTHING FOR GH ,,MORE THE BETTET,,GH WILL CREATE NEW MUSCLE FIBERS WITHIN 7 DAYS OF ENTERING THE BLOOD,,IT WILL FROM THEN ON ONLY GROW MORE AND MORE FIBERS,,YOU THEN BLOW THEM UP BY STEROIDS,,BUT THE LARGE MUSCULAR FIGURE YOU SEE ARE PURE ISOLATED RESULT OF GH USE,,
A FELLA LIKE THE FATTIE WHATS HIS NAME FUCK,,EVEN CENTERFINI HE WOULD HAEV BEEN ABSOLUTLY NOTHING WITH OUT GH ,,WOULD BE DOUGH BOY IN LOCAL GYM THAT PLAY AROUND AT 210 18% ,,JUST WOUDNT BE ANYTHING,,SAMNE FOR PHILLIP HEATH,, A FELLA LIKE STAN MACOWY WOULD WIPE THE FLOOR WITH BOTH IF GH WASNT PRESENT ,,
gh15 approved
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stan mcquay physique is a lot smaller than the top guys
my guess is he uses GH in lower doses and also low doses on test tren mast eq ???
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i back dragon up here.[/b]
scientifically speaking there has not been a single study that has shown gh to have any muscle building properties worth talking about.
certainly none worth the deadly life reducing risks.
oh brother.
listen to the 350 pound fat guy talk like his opinion should mean something.
im sure dragon really appreciates you being in his corner! jesus christ ahahahahahahahahahaha
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i can assure you my friend,,that legit gh is the only reason a bodybuilder look different than you ,,ALWAYS LOOK AT THE HANDS,,THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOK THICKER AND MEATIER ON BODYBUILDER THAT IS SERIOUS,,THATS BECAUSE THEY LIVE FROM GH KIT TO GH KIT,,THEY ARE FIRST AND FORMOST ADDICTED TO GH ,,THEY WILL DO ANYTHING FOR GH ,,MORE THE BETTET,,GH WILL CREATE NEW MUSCLE FIBERS WITHIN 7 DAYS OF ENTERING THE BLOOD,,IT WILL FROM THEN ON ONLY GROW MORE AND MORE FIBERS,,YOU THEN BLOW THEM UP BY STEROIDS,,BUT THE LARGE MUSCULAR FIGURE YOU SEE ARE PURE ISOLATED RESULT OF GH USE,,
A FELLA LIKE THE FATTIE WHATS HIS NAME FUCK,,EVEN CENTERFINI HE WOULD HAEV BEEN ABSOLUTLY NOTHING WITH OUT GH ,,WOULD BE DOUGH BOY IN LOCAL GYM THAT PLAY AROUND AT 210 18% ,,JUST WOUDNT BE ANYTHING,,SAMNE FOR PHILLIP HEATH,, A FELLA LIKE STAN MACOWY WOULD WIPE THE FLOOR WITH BOTH IF GH WASNT PRESENT ,,
gh15 approved
5ui of gh is < than 50mg adrol or dbol.
yet is 500x more expensive.
gh = waste of money.
just look at the effects it has had on no one ::)
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oh brother.
listen to the 350 pound fat guy talk like his opinion should mean something.
im sure dragon really appreciates you being in his corner! jesus christ ahahahahahahahahahaha
bodybuilders claim lots of things are beneficial to muscle building, yet science says different.
gh is one such item.
it may help recovery, it may help fat loss, but it doesn't grow muscle.
i wouldn't expect a scientific ignorant like you to understand that as you inject iu after iu of the stuff thinking you look like a greek god rather than the greek toad you really look like.
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laine notrom is nto lacking size,,he lack genetic respond to hormones,,he has good size ,,he is large ,,he could be bigger but he go for 2-4 iu gh ,,thats what he can afford and thats what wil let him compete in natural and thought of as natural ,,kyomi kooshi already lost his damn mind and just dont care....
i keep tellin you my friends,,over and over and over,,
the diff between layen nortom and jason cutler rest in little number called 20-25 extra unit of growth hormone a day ,,that is it my friends,,
one uses it from a natural lol point of use
the other use it from a burn victim point of use
one is 200
the other is 260
give about 15-20lb height diference,,and you have 80lb diff due to usage of gh at 5-6 times the doses
this is bodybuilding my friends,,when package insert say 15+ iu for growing they realy mean it,,you think they joke you are poor so you do 5 iu ,,jason cutler was smart,,had the right contact and did 20 ,,as simple as that,,thats why he look 4 time your size lol very very simple concept my friendly friends
gh15 approved
I don't know about Layne being "LARGE". In clothes he doesn't look big at all, but not too many people do with low body fat and not on test! Many dont on low doses of test and very low bodyfat, especially in clothes. But some people do carry an "Illusion" and I guess that "Illusion" comes from his small bone structure and 3-dimensional physique GH brings out.
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5ui of gh is < than 50mg adrol or dbol.
yet is 500x more expensive.
gh = waste of money.
just look at the effects it has had on no one ::)
oh nonono my friend,,5 iu of legit gh take anadrol and dbol at 300mg each ....and wipe the windows with them,,,for not to forget! gh create new NEW cells fibers in your muscles,,it creates M U T A T I O N ,,you will sudenly flex and see the fibers moving ....why? because you get leaner and larger muscularatory ,,less body fat on frame and more muscle mass not only due to less bodyfat but due to both less body fat and newwwwwwwwww creating of muscle fibers that in return double and triple the lean mass on frame that gets bodybuilder leaner and leaner while growing and growing,,EVEN AT 5 IU ,,to some it work very well even at 2 iu but its just take much much longer,,
gh shoudl alwasys be prefered on any anabolic steroid BECAUSE,,when you arrrd done with gh therapy and go on steroids or even while on gh you BLOW UP TO NEW DIMENTIONS UNSEEN BEFORE ON YOU ,,you suddenly see females actually staring at your chest insted of your face whilw taking order for chiken wings at americana hooters,,you sundely see people stop what they do and just stare in awe and disbelief of how you got so 3 dimentional large from within,,,then they think few min and go do some side laterals ...they think they need to work the shoulders more to look like you ,,they dont get it ,,they dont get that bodybuilding is ALL IN THE GH lol
gh15 approved
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I don't know about Layne being "LARGE". In clothes he doesn't look big at all, but not too many people do with low body fat and not on test! Many dont on low doses of test and very low bodyfat, especially in clothes. But some people do carry an "Illusion" and I guess that "Illusion" comes from his small bone structure and 3-dimensional physique GH brings out.
nothign to do with illuision ,,alvez look liek skinny twiger with black jacket on competition day at his 215,,is he skinny twiger? hell no moment he takle shirt off you see it ....its problem of many who just dont use gh at very high doses,, anything under 8 iu consider very low dose for bodybuilding as of 2010
gh15 approved
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i can assure you my friend,,that legit gh is the only reason a bodybuilder look different than you ,,ALWAYS LOOK AT THE HANDS,,THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOK THICKER AND MEATIER ON BODYBUILDER THAT IS SERIOUS,,THATS BECAUSE THEY LIVE FROM GH KIT TO GH KIT,,THEY ARE FIRST AND FORMOST ADDICTED TO GH ,,THEY WILL DO ANYTHING FOR GH ,,MORE THE BETTET,,GH WILL CREATE NEW MUSCLE FIBERS WITHIN 7 DAYS OF ENTERING THE BLOOD,,IT WILL FROM THEN ON ONLY GROW MORE AND MORE FIBERS,,YOU THEN BLOW THEM UP BY STEROIDS,,BUT THE LARGE MUSCULAR FIGURE YOU SEE ARE PURE ISOLATED RESULT OF GH USE,,
A FELLA LIKE THE FATTIE WHATS HIS NAME FUCK,,EVEN CENTERFINI HE WOULD HAEV BEEN ABSOLUTLY NOTHING WITH OUT GH ,,WOULD BE DOUGH BOY IN LOCAL GYM THAT PLAY AROUND AT 210 18% ,,JUST WOUDNT BE ANYTHING,,SAMNE FOR PHILLIP HEATH,, A FELLA LIKE STAN MACOWY WOULD WIPE THE FLOOR WITH BOTH IF GH WASNT PRESENT ,,
gh15 approved
True to that, male bodybuilders will go from straight to gay in a heartbeat for GH. They will dance, they will strip, and they will blow the next guy for GH Money. The femaler competitors will literally suck a mans cock for GH!! Want to fuck a bunch of fitness girls, go to your next local comp. tell all the fitness chicks you are the guy for Serostims, bring two packs of condoms with you and as many cialis as you can ;)..... GH for a bodybuilder is like crack to the skinny black guy in Compton.
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The key here is... DOES GH REALLY CREATE NEW MUSCLE CELLS? And if oui, then it is DA BOMB 8) Dat fat burning aspect of it is quite important as well ;D
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The key here is... DOES GH REALLY CREATE NEW MUSCLE CELLS? And if oui, then it is DA BOMB 8) Dat fat burning aspect of it is quite important as well ;D
ofcourse he does,,how do you think all of us bodybuilder wake up in the morning and keep all muscle eventhough we sit on computer for 2 hour with out eating a damn thing?? how do you think we go after gym 2-3 hour soimetime with otu even eating one little gram of protien ??
growth hormone! in mega doses,,
look at alexi lalov or whatever that dwarf name is ,,he is a kid thaT ABUSED GROWTH HORMONE AT AGE 16 TO THE ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM LEVEL ,,HE I MAXED OUT AND RUINED CHANCES TO EVER BECOME SUCESFUL PRO,,inaddition to having tits,,but take a look at the usage and growth this kid got from severe usage of gh,,
gh15 approved
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the problem in this argument is that gh15 is so dumb he cant understand correlation properly.
he thinks that just because you add a chemical to another one, and the other one had maxed out, then if you get gains then those new gains are attributable to the new chemical.
This of course is simpleton thinking, and why BBs take loads of everything.
The reality is that GH doesnt cause muscle growth. GH allows the anabolic steroids to work far more effectively by creating a rich growth environment. those who use GH on its own benefit from it by being able to retain muscle and get lean, whereas those who use AAS and GH get much more out of the AAS thanks to the GH.
That doesnt mean GH grows muscle.
its pretty fucking simple, and its backed up by controlled double blind data AND anecdotes.
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oh nonono my friend,,5 iu of legit gh take anadrol and dbol at 300mg each ....and wipe the windows with them,,,for not to forget! gh create new NEW cells fibers in your muscles,,it creates M U T A T I O N ,,you will sudenly flex and see the fibers moving ....why? because you get leaner and larger muscularatory ,,less body fat on frame and more muscle mass not only due to less bodyfat but due to both less body fat and newwwwwwwwww creating of muscle fibers that in return double and triple the lean mass on frame that gets bodybuilder leaner and leaner while growing and growing,,EVEN AT 5 IU ,,to some it work very well even at 2 iu but its just take much much longer,,
gh shoudl alwasys be prefered on any anabolic steroid BECAUSE,,when you arrrd done with gh therapy and go on steroids or even while on gh you BLOW UP TO NEW DIMENTIONS UNSEEN BEFORE ON YOU ,,you suddenly see females actually staring at your chest insted of your face whilw taking order for chiken wings at americana hooters,,you sundely see people stop what they do and just stare in awe and disbelief of how you got so 3 dimentional large from within,,,then they think few min and go do some side laterals ...they think they need to work the shoulders more to look like you ,,they dont get it ,,they dont get that bodybuilding is ALL IN THE GH lol
gh15 approved
you really dont have a fucking clue. it must be bliss to be so dumb and ignorant. i mean, nothing about the world could perplex you as everything is a challenge isnt it?
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the problem in this argument is that gh15 is so dumb he cant understand correlation properly.
he thinks that just because you add a chemical to another one, and the other one had maxed out, then if you get gains then those new gains are attributable to the new chemical.
This of course is simpleton thinking, and why BBs take loads of everything.
The reality is that GH doesnt cause muscle growth. GH allows the anabolic steroids to work far more effectively by creating a rich growth environment. those who use GH on its own benefit from it by being able to retain muscle and get lean, whereas those who use AAS and GH get much more out of the AAS thanks to the GH.
That doesnt mean GH grows muscle.
its pretty fucking simple, and its backed up by controlled double blind data AND anecdotes.
No, your only partially right. A Big reason why GH helps build muscle is because it allows one to eat more food without it going to fat, forcing muscles to use it and thus grow. But that is not the only GH directly causes anabolic processes to go into action, and causes the muscles to become more sensitive to training as well.
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Ok, but does gh really cause hyperplasia ie. creation of new muscle cells? And if it really does, then it should create a very dense look on the muscles, because more muscle fibers would make the muscles look denser and more tightly packed.
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the problem in this argument is that gh15 is so dumb he cant understand correlation properly.
he thinks that just because you add a chemical to another one, and the other one had maxed out, then if you get gains then those new gains are attributable to the new chemical.
This of course is simpleton thinking, and why BBs take loads of everything.
The reality is that GH doesnt cause muscle growth. GH allows the anabolic steroids to work far more effectively by creating a rich growth environment. those who use GH on its own benefit from it by being able to retain muscle and get lean, whereas those who use AAS and GH get much more out of the AAS thanks to the GH.
That doesnt mean GH grows muscle.
its pretty fucking simple, and its backed up by controlled double blind data AND anecdotes.
i was about to go bazzook on you my retarded friend,,but after reading your shit couple times you said exactly what gh15 says which i cant be mad abotu because its what i preach ,,
GH GROWS MUSCLE VIA MEANS OF INCREASING MUSCLE FIBERS,,NO AAS = MUSCLE WILL BE RETAINED AND YOU WILL GET LEANER VIA MORE MUCLE FIBER ADDED AND LOSS OF BF AS A RESULT AND OFCOURE LOSS OF BF PERIOD,,ADD AAS AND YOU START WHAT WE CALL M U T A T I O N ,,THUS THE MUSCLE FIBER GH CREATED!! WILL BE BLOWN UP BY THE USAGE OF STEROIDS ,,THE HIGHER THE DOSE THE BIGGER YOULL GET,,LARGER AND BIGGER SINCE I CONSIDER LARGE AND BIG LITTLE DIFFERENT BUT WONT GO INTO IT RIGHT NOW
gh15 approved
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Ok, but does gh really cause hyperplasia ie. creation of new muscle cells? And if it really does, then it should create a very dense look on the muscles, because more muscle fibers would make the muscles look denser and more tightly packed.
yes,,gh creates more mucle fibers,,it doesnt mean more dense because dense is a condition that you achieve of muscle ,,gh increase muscle fibers and how can you tell it? because at 10% on gh you will be able to see muscle fibers while flexing arms pecs etc ,,they will be visible at same 10% at 220 when before hand at 220 13% they were not,,a true reduction of bf at 220 from 13 to 10 percent would result in fella going down to 205-210 weight,,with gh it allow you to stay at 220 while losing the fat,,why? because it increases the muscle fibers and thus grow your muscles via steroids which in return show muscle fibers pushing through skin at a bf level that before wasnt possible ,,10% back in the 60s didnt show much muscle fiber a of 10% now days,, remember gh15 does not talk insulin intro to body only gh and aas,,
gh15 approved
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Allright, and the reason that 10% didn't show in the 60s was because guys weren't as thickly muscled then as they are now, right? For example, my pic at sub-6 didn't look as impressive as a much larger fella at sub-6 due to the fact that I'm a natural trainer standing 5'11" at 155 sub-6, and that just isn't thickly muscled enough. And so I guess that if I weighed 180 at sub-8 it would look similar to my smaller sub-6 with 25 less pounds on me right? I was trained by an elite powerlifter/bench press specialist who told me this exact same thing. Basically the more muscle that you have the easier it is to look very lean, even at a higher bodyfat.
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I believe FOR muscle building GH WITHOUT steroids is just ok, definetly taking gear and insulin WITH it is what makes all the difference, for examples just look at a lot of the guys that don't work out but take GH for it's fountain of youth effect.. though on the same side GH + GEAR = INSANE results.
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The key here is... DOES GH REALLY CREATE NEW MUSCLE CELLS? And if oui, then it is DA BOMB 8) Dat fat burning aspect of it is quite important as well ;D
I believe it does. First of all we know gh makes igf through the liver which gh15 said many times. We all know how important igf is for muscle growth. One thing to keep in mind is patients with acromology are usually much larger than most people. How do you test for acromology? IGF levels. Now if 4 IU elevates your igf levels a little bit, and 10 IU elevates them by a shitload, how can one justify that anything more than 4 IU is a waste like that fella with the forhead...dave p his name? :-X
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No, your only partially right. A Big reason why GH helps build muscle is because it allows one to eat more food without it going to fat, forcing muscles to use it and thus grow. But that is not the only GH directly causes anabolic processes to go into action, and causes the muscles to become more sensitive to training as well.
boom. probably one of the best posts on getbig. tbombz putting twinks in place :)
in my opinion if you decide to take steroids only and not use gh, you better have above average genetic response to AAS, you have to get strong as fuck, you better have high natural gh levels, you better pound the food. and even if you do you STILL may not look impressive.
Joe A takes ton of steroids... lifts heavy weights for five years.....but is stuck at 215 10 percent bf.
Joe B takes 5 IU of gh and is 220 6 percent bf in 1 year curling 40 pound dumbells eating whatever he want
gh15 tells you guys over and over and you dont get it! bodybuilding is seriously fucked up.It really is that easy. Wann know how those guys in your gym are 220 6 pecent with cannon ball pressing 75 on shoulders... yet you use 120 pounds for shoulder and delts still suck on more test and dbol than a elephant? GH!
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boom. probably one of the best posts on getbig. tbombz putting twinks in place :)
in my opinion if you decide to take steroids only and not use gh, you better have above average genetic response to AAS, you have to get strong as fuck, you better have high natural gh levels, you better pound the food. and even if you do you STILL may not look impressive.
Joe A takes ton of steroids... lifts heavy weights for five years.....but is stuck at 215 10 percent bf.
Joe B takes 5 IU of gh and is 220 6 percent bf in 1 year curling 40 pound dumbells eating whatever he want
gh15 tells you guys over and over and you dont get it! bodybuilding is seriously fucked up.It really is that easy. Wann know how those guys in your gym are 220 6 pecent with cannon ball delts yet you use 120 pounds for shoulder and delts still suck on more test and dbol than a elephant? GH!
neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedddd ggghhhhhh :P
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Hahah Disco_stu is probably near meltdown from everyone agreeing with GH15.
Hahahahaha
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boom. probably one of the best posts on getbig. tbombz putting twinks in place :)
in my opinion if you decide to take steroids only and not use gh, you better have above average genetic response to AAS, you have to get strong as fuck, you better have high natural gh levels, you better pound the food. and even if you do you STILL may not look impressive.
Joe A takes ton of steroids... lifts heavy weights for five years.....but is stuck at 215 10 percent bf.
Joe B takes 5 IU of gh and is 220 6 percent bf in 1 year curling 40 pound dumbells eating whatever he want
gh15 tells you guys over and over and you dont get it! bodybuilding is seriously fucked up.It really is that easy. Wann know how those guys in your gym are 220 6 pecent with cannon ball pressing 75 on shoulders... yet you use 120 pounds for shoulder and delts still suck on more test and dbol than a elephant? GH!
You make it sound like its magic, which isnt. Sure its a great addition to a cycle, nothing more nothing less..but then again, havent used hgh so i cant tell. have you?
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You make it sound like its magic, which isnt. Sure its a great addition to a cycle, nothing more nothing less..but then again, havent used hgh so i cant tell. have you?
the thing is that it is magic,,there is a big behind the scene effort ,,combined one,,to minimize how magical legit gh is,,its done by.....you got that right the one who want more for themselves,,the ones who actually look like bodybuilders and are bodybuilders,,its them who minimize its importance while they know that gh is the reason they look the way they do ,,
gh is MAGIC,,YOU CAN EAT SHIT ,,YOU CAN EAT LOTS OF SHIT AND AS LONG AS MACROS ARE IN PROTIEN CARBS MAINLY YOU WILL GROW LEAN ,,GROWING LEAN MEANING ADD LEAN MUSCLE WHILE REDUCING BODYFAT AS A RESULT AND OFCOURSE LOSING BODYFAT WITH NO CONNECTION TO MUSCLE ADDED WHICH MAKE IT DOUBLE BENEFIT,,
now! if you actually eat right on gh ,,and prep ,,and you actually keep your diet intact,,and cheat once in a while but keep things contant ...you will look like a large muscular thick skeletor,,you will be shredded and peeled,,but when on hgh inorder to look lean at 8% and being big you dont even haev to have diet,,infact even for 6% you dont if you do it long enough ,,for under 6 you do
hgh is MAGIC ,,especially at higher doses but also at 5 iu ,,big magic at 5 iu HUGE MAGIC AT 15
gh15 approved
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also friends,,not to forget! the one who really care about lookin more natural and looking like they blessed with good genetic they are very particular at what they do ,,what i mean by that pupils ill explain
a fella like kyoshi mooshoo,,will know exactly what he is doing to the t ,,take aside the disghusting liar he is ,,when it comes to his drug work he knows exactly that he need to prime body with gh ,,he does it ,,he doesnt even have to use many kit,,he use 2 kits or 3 prime body ,,do it for 50 day then go off and introduce anabolics for the blow up phase,,doesnt have to be together,,doesnt have to be the effects hgh does on hands,,it can be with minize side effect of gh with ame final benefit if know how to use it right which usually mean you compete" natural"....meaning you know how to work with drugs and decieve the system,,everyone think oh hgh better be 8 month 6 month,,BALONIE 6 week is enough for starting grow needed with aas,,then you take some break then hoopla on again ,,ofcourse you can stay on forever and go top npc competitor but to each his own ,,in any case end result is pretty similar and its mainly dose dependent not duration ,,duration matter to some degree....dose matter MUCH MUCH MORE
gh15 approved
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the thing is that it is magic,,there is a big behind the scene effort ,,combined one,,to minimize how magical legit gh is,,its done by.....you got that right the one who want more for themselves,,the ones who actually look like bodybuilders and are bodybuilders,,its them who minimize its importance while they know that gh is the reason they look the way they do ,,
gh is MAGIC,,YOU CAN EAT SHIT ,,YOU CAN EAT LOTS OF SHIT AND AS LONG AS MACROS ARE IN PROTIEN CARBS MAINLY YOU WILL GROW LEAN ,,GROWING LEAN MEANING ADD LEAN MUSCLE WHILE REDUCING BODYFAT AS A RESULT AND OFCOURSE LOSING BODYFAT WITH NO CONNECTION TO MUSCLE ADDED WHICH MAKE IT DOUBLE BENEFIT,,
now! if you actually eat right on gh ,,and prep ,,and you actually keep your diet intact,,and cheat once in a while but keep things contant ...you will look like a large muscular thick skeletor,,you will be shredded and peeled,,but when on hgh inorder to look lean at 8% and being big you dont even haev to have diet,,infact even for 6% you dont if you do it long enough ,,for under 6 you do
hgh is MAGIC ,,especially at higher doses but also at 5 iu ,,big magic at 5 iu HUGE MAGIC AT 15
gh15 approved
Ok, hook me up. ;D
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also friends,,not to forget! the one who really care about lookin more natural and looking like they blessed with good genetic they are very particular at what they do ,,what i mean by that pupils ill explain
a fella like kyoshi mooshoo,,will know exactly what he is doing to the t ,,take aside the disghusting liar he is ,,when it comes to his drug work he knows exactly that he need to prime body with gh ,,he does it ,,he doesnt even have to use many kit,,he use 2 kits or 3 prime body ,,do it for 50 day then go off and introduce anabolics for the blow up phase,,doesnt have to be together,,doesnt have to be the effects hgh does on hands,,it can be with minize side effect of gh with ame final benefit if know how to use it right which usually mean you compete" natural"....meaning you know how to work with drugs and decieve the system,,everyone think oh hgh better be 8 month 6 month,,BALONIE 6 week is enough for starting grow needed with aas,,then you take some break then hoopla on again ,,ofcourse you can stay on forever and go top npc competitor but to each his own ,,in any case end result is pretty similar and its mainly dose dependent not duration ,,duration matter to some degree....dose matter MUCH MUCH MORE
gh15 approved
But Moody is already 40 years old. Do you think he ever gets completely off HGH? His body isn't producing much on it's own so wouldn't he shrink quickly even on AAS if he wasn't on at least some kind of maintenance dose of HGH?
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the thing is that it is magic,,there is a big behind the scene effort ,,combined one,,to minimize how magical legit gh is,,its done by.....you got that right the one who want more for themselves,,the ones who actually look like bodybuilders and are bodybuilders,,its them who minimize its importance while they know that gh is the reason they look the way they do
Never thought of it so directly...
Right there is good.
Why do you keep avoiding me gh15?
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Can someone please post no1 Scott Alexander's current pic here? I'd like to hear God's all-knowing and infalliable assesment of no1's true bodyfat level. Also, God can tell us how many iu's of gh no1 is using
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But Moody is already 40 years old. Do you think he ever gets completely off HGH? His body isn't producing much on it's own so wouldn't he shrink quickly even on AAS if he wasn't on at least some kind of maintenance dose of HGH?
you got to get off gh inorder to lose the wateer weigth comletely and see how chizeled you are within 2-3 weeks thats the key no matter what age you are,,and as said in bible 30 times....gh give you window of 6-12 months where you cant and wont shrink if you follow with aas that mean you can stop gh and you will continue grow for 6-12 months usuallly dose and duraqtion depenendnt but with most gym rat closer to 6 months,,you wont shrink you wil only continnue to deveklop[ and grow the new muscle fibers hgh created while you been on for your 50 days 100 days 150 days etc
also if you have a break of gh for a week or 2 in a long term usage ,,nothing will happen unles break came after 14 days ,,,if break came after over a month and the break is small nothing will happen ,,again thi is talking about a 10 day break not 2 month break
gh15 approved
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insulin still will always fuck you up in the end like gh15 said before.
However I think hgh in bbing doses, without insulin is asking for problems. You are at risk for becoming type2 diabetic by not using exogenous insulin with your gh.. here is something from anabolics 2006
Q: Can you stay on GH indefinitely since it possesses virtually no toxicity?
A: The only problem I've noticed with prolonged use of large doses of growth hormone (GH) is the possible insulin resistance that can occur. GH is a fat-mobilizing hormone that appears to compete either directly with insulin or by interfering with insulin receptors on the surface of the muscle cells. Remember, if insulin can't reach its target tissues, then it can't drive glucose and amino acids into the cells. This all-too-familiar scenario among off-season bodybuilders creates a sort of insulin resistance that will impede muscle gains and result in a "flat" looking physique.
maybe tbombz or Van can clear this up for me.
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i back dragon up here.
scientifically speaking there has not been a single study that has shown gh to have any muscle building properties worth talking about.
certainly none worth the deadly life reducing risks.
Broscience trumps studies apparently.
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However I think hgh in bbing doses, without insulin is asking for problems. You are at risk for becoming type2 diabetic by not using exogenous insulin with your gh..
If by Type II diabetes you mean what is usually meant, i.e. insulin resistant cells then no, I don't see how extra insulin prevents this. Milos has talked about how high carb diets can kill your pancreas and that exogenous insulin can prevent it. Even if true, it's not Type II, but Type I diabetes if your pancreas "dies".
Taking GH leads to increased endogenous insulin levels. High doses can cause severely high blood glucose that your body can't handle on its own, and it would be in your best interest to use insulin in that case, since high blood sugar is extremely damaging to various tissues, such as your eyes, kidneys etc. But taking extra insulin does nothing for your actual insulin sensitivity. More insulin = less sensitivity in the long run. A bodybuilder on say 20iu of GH, 100iu of insulin, a bunch of stimulants and eating enormous amounts of food for years on end is probably not very insulin sensitive. :D
You could of course look at it another way, and say one could become Type II while on GH without insulin, just based on the elevated BG (presumably temporary condition and probably not what you were talking about).
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If by Type II diabetes you mean what is usually meant, i.e. insulin resistant cells then no, I don't see how extra insulin prevents this. Milos has talked about how high carb diets can kill your pancreas and that exogenous insulin can prevent it. Even if true, it's not Type II, but Type I diabetes if your pancreas "dies".
Taking GH leads to increased endogenous insulin levels. High doses can cause severely high blood glucose that your body can't handle on its own, and it would be in your best interest to use insulin in that case, since high blood sugar is extremely damaging to various tissues, such as your eyes, kidneys etc. But taking extra insulin does nothing for your actual insulin sensitivity. More insulin = less sensitivity in the long run. A bodybuilder on say 20iu of GH, 100iu of insulin, a bunch of stimulants and eating enormous amounts of food for years on end is probably not very insulin sensitive. :D
You could of course look at it another way, and say one could become Type II while on GH without insulin, just based on the elevated BG (presumably temporary condition and probably not what you were talking about).
By taking insulin with GH, you are actually lessening the strain on the panceras (when you become insulin resistant from the GH, you pancreatic beta cells have to work harder to crank out enough insulin) By taking exogenous insulin , in small enough amounts, you are actually lowering the chances of diabetes By not taking insulin (and continually staying on GH) your actually leaving yourself open to stressing the pancreas into a diabetic-like state (usually people in this category come down with panceatitis-- a prelude to diabetes)
The above quote was from palumbo. Sounds to me like jut an excuse to use slin :D The reason I am concerned is because my friend who is in his mid twenties recently came down with type 2 diabetes. He never really got out of shape in the offseason and he ate pretty clean from what I saw. He started gh at 20 he said. I know insulin has its downfalls as well like premature aging but it sounds to me like using gh without slin is worse in the long run
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Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/palumbo/steroid-use-by-pro-bodybuilders.htm#ixzz19A6KoxoE
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The above quote was from palumbo. Sounds to me like jut an excuse to use slin :D The reason I am concerned is because my friend who is in his mid twenties recently came down with type 2 diabetes. He never really got out of shape in the offseason and he ate pretty clean from what I saw. He started gh at 20 he said. I know insulin has its downfalls as well like premature aging but it sounds to me like using gh without slin is worse in the long run
Palumbo says no one should use more than 2iu of GH. I'd like for him to show evidence that 2iu will cause pancreatitis, or even any dose of GH. :D
Palumbo is full of shit like usual.
Regarding your friend, would be interesting to know the full picture. Might be a very temporary condition, especially if he was on drugs at the time of the diagnosis.
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Palumbo says no one should use more than 2iu of GH. I'd like for him to show evidence that 2iu will cause pancreatitis, or even any dose of GH. :D
Palumbo is full of shit like usual.
Regarding your friend, would be interesting to know the full picture. Might be a very temporary condition, especially if he was on drugs at the time of the diagnosis.
Yes, and Palumbo also said most pros don't use over 1500mgs of Test and those that do are idiots. Palumbo makes himself sound credible and honest by serving naive people with not half truths but 1/25th truths. Ronnie Coleman used megadoses to get to 300lbs ripped with his Great genetics! Palumbo is a runt of the litter compared to Ronnie and yet Palumbo allegedly got so big on 2ius and 1500mgs of test, lol!
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Broscience trumps studies apparently.
apparently :'(
regarding anything palumbo advises.
i think its wise to look at what he did to himself using this stuff - before insulin and gh guys looked incredible. without insulin and gh guys will look incredible.
why chance possible palumboism, pancreatitis and diabetes on a peptide that has no muscle growing properties that costs loads more than muscle producing steroids and rampantly faked also all on the say so of a few pro bodybuilders that think its great ???
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Well, there seems to be 2 HUGE keys with gh usage: 1. It's fat burning abiltity 2. Creating new muscle fibers. This second key is VERY, VERY HUGE
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Palumbo says no one should use more than 2iu of GH. I'd like for him to show evidence that 2iu will cause pancreatitis, or even any dose of GH. :D
Palumbo is full of shit like usual.
Regarding your friend, would be interesting to know the full picture. Might be a very temporary condition, especially if he was on drugs at the time of the diagnosis.
all I know is he told me his fasting glucose was over 130 and said its from the gh. As far as I know he never used slin. He hasnt been off gh in over four years....Uses tons of orals also.
I was just suprised because you figure someone who eats decently,is lean and musular,lifestyle of a bodybuilder would never get it. Maybe it is temporary. I just dont want to get myself in the same situation once I start gh I am very health oriented.
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If by Type II diabetes you mean what is usually meant, i.e. insulin resistant cells then no, I don't see how extra insulin prevents this. Milos has talked about how high carb diets can kill your pancreas and that exogenous insulin can prevent it. Even if true, it's not Type II, but Type I diabetes if your pancreas "dies".
Taking GH leads to increased endogenous insulin levels. High doses can cause severely high blood glucose that your body can't handle on its own, and it would be in your best interest to use insulin in that case, since high blood sugar is extremely damaging to various tissues, such as your eyes, kidneys etc. But taking extra insulin does nothing for your actual insulin sensitivity. More insulin = less sensitivity in the long run. A bodybuilder on say 20iu of GH, 100iu of insulin, a bunch of stimulants and eating enormous amounts of food for years on end is probably not very insulin sensitive. :D
You could of course look at it another way, and say one could become Type II while on GH without insulin, just based on the elevated BG (presumably temporary condition and probably not what you were talking about).
How does HGH lead to increase insulin levels?
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How does HGH lead to increase insulin levels?
I'm not sure as to the exact pathway(s) but it's a response to the increased blood glucose/reduced insulin sensitivity. Just like Type II diabetics have high insulin because normal insulin isn't doing the job.
There's a graph in this paper showing what happens to glucose, insulin etc with low dose GH therapy.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/88/4/1455
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Well, there seems to be 2 HUGE keys with gh usage: 1. It's fat burning abiltity 2. Creating new muscle fibers. This second key is VERY, VERY HUGE
you got it my friend,,if everyone else got it ...they would be competing npc for pro card now ,,but the problem is the ron herises around that posion their head with junk and lies,,this is THE PROBLEM,,and you know why its that? because supp companie need making money and thats the only way to keep yougster interested in supplements
gh15 approved
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Never thought of it so directly...
Right there is good.
Why do you keep avoiding me gh15?
If im not mistaken, it was you that made the post about how you hold your size so well, hardly lose size and keep your 240lb etc? something along those lines of what was seen as self praise (post was quite abit back to go off searching for it). gh15 didnt like this and replied about how you are americano fat/big 240, not bodybuilder 240. And from what ive seen since then, that was his final post to you for self praise.
Just my observation. You can look back at your posts for this. kind of like you have been disowned from his pupil group yet still making his teeth grind by having that "Hormona,,, fella.. americano,,, approved." in your signiture.
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I'm not sure as to the exact pathway(s) but it's a response to the increased blood glucose/reduced insulin sensitivity. Just like Type II diabetics have high insulin because normal insulin isn't doing the job.
There's a graph in this paper showing what happens to glucose, insulin etc with low dose GH therapy.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/88/4/1455
As I understand it, insulin and HGH are opposing hormones. Naturally, you can have one or the other with insulin taking priority. Meaning that if you eat high glycemic carbs it will always stimulate insulin production and suppress HGH, which is one of the reasons you shouldn't eat ice cream just before going to bed.
I had a test done on me when I first went to an endocrinologist for HRT. It was called something like and insulin hypoglycemic test. The test was to determine my insulin sensitivity. I had two nurses and one doctor in the room. They injected me with insulin in one vein in my right arm and when I would start to pass out they injected dextrose in the vein on my left arm. There was an inverse relationship between blood sugar, determined by insulin levels, and HGH production. When my blood sugar was low, HGH spiked. When they pumped dextrose in my blood stream HGH dropped.
Type 2 diabetes, a huge problem in Hawaii and ranked one of the highest in the nation, is caused when you constantly are producing insulin. That occurs when you are constantly eating and snacking on primarily carbohydrates which we do a lot of in America. We are always eating. Eventually, because you are always producing insulin, you start to develop a resistance to your own insulin and have to produce more and more to process a given gram of carbohydrate. Virtually everybody by the time they are forty have some form of insulin resistance compare to when they were in their teens. Not enough to be type 2 but resistance none the less. In the case of my aunt, she was so insulin resistant that her pancreas had to work far beyond normal and eventually "burned itself out." It went kaput and then she became a type 1 diabetic and had to take insulin shots throughout the day and with every meal.
There are some who advocate taking low dose short acting insulin prior to every meal to give your pancreas a break. I guess that sounds good but it also sounds like quite a hassle.
What I don't understand is how HGH causes insulin resistance. HGH will not suppress insulin but insulin will suppress HGH. If immediately after a high intensity workout, which studies have shown stimulate HGH production, you have a high carb drink it will suppress the HGH you stimulated. It is better to stretch out after a workout for about 20-30 minutes before eating anything. That way you keep your blood sugar low and conducive to a GH producing environment.
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I had a test done on me when I first went to an endocrinologist for HRT. It was called something like and insulin hypoglycemic test. The test was to determine my insulin sensitivity.
I'm pretty sure they were testing whether you were producing GH normally. GH is released in a pulsatile manner and testing for GH without this insulin provocation method will not tell how much you're producing overall. Alternately you can test for IGF-1 which is more stable in the blood and a good indicator of normal GH production.
Insulin sensitivity would be tested for via glucose challenge for example (you drink 75g of dextrose and test BG at intervals).
Type 2 diabetes, a huge problem in Hawaii and ranked one of the highest in the nation, is caused when you constantly are producing insulin. That occurs when you are constantly eating and snacking on primarily carbohydrates which we do a lot of in America. We are always eating. Eventually, because you are always producing insulin, you start to develop a resistance to your own insulin and have to produce more and more to process a given gram of carbohydrate.
You are always producing some insulin, high carb diet or not. Insulin resistance from bad diet is mostly due to eating too much period, not just due to the evil carbohydrate or sugar. Research shows high fat to carb ratio in the diet can also induce insulin resistance. Excessive protein the same.
People are obese = people are insulin resistant. :D
What I don't understand is how HGH causes insulin resistance. HGH will not suppress insulin but insulin will suppress HGH. If immediately after a high intensity workout, which studies have shown stimulate HGH production, you have a high carb drink it will suppress the HGH you stimulated. It is better to stretch out after a workout for about 20-30 minutes before eating anything. That way you keep your blood sugar low and conducive to a GH producing environment.
HGH cause increased fatty acid oxidization, which in turn reduces glucose oxidization. There is then a buildup up of glucose and this causes the resistance through pathways I don't remember.
Trying to affect muscle growth through nutrient timing (via hormonal effects) is pretty useless. There's a bunch of things you can do to raise GH but none of it will do jack as far as muscle growth. I remember when Larry Scott said to sit in a sauna between sets without drinking water to boost GH. Completely useless. :D Transient peaks will do nothing, especially when the GH boosting methods are catabolic in themselves, such as fasting. To really get the benefits of GH you need the synthetic one. :D
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As I understand it, insulin and HGH are opposing hormones. Naturally, you can have one or the other with insulin taking priority. Meaning that if you eat high glycemic carbs it will always stimulate insulin production and suppress HGH, which is one of the reasons you shouldn't eat ice cream just before going to bed.
I had a test done on me when I first went to an endocrinologist for HRT. It was called something like and insulin hypoglycemic test. The test was to determine my insulin sensitivity. I had two nurses and one doctor in the room. They injected me with insulin in one vein in my right arm and when I would start to pass out they injected dextrose in the vein on my left arm. There was an inverse relationship between blood sugar, determined by insulin levels, and HGH production. When my blood sugar was low, HGH spiked. When they pumped dextrose in my blood stream HGH dropped.
Type 2 diabetes, a huge problem in Hawaii and ranked one of the highest in the nation, is caused when you constantly are producing insulin. That occurs when you are constantly eating and snacking on primarily carbohydrates which we do a lot of in America. We are always eating. Eventually, because you are always producing insulin, you start to develop a resistance to your own insulin and have to produce more and more to process a given gram of carbohydrate. Virtually everybody by the time they are forty have some form of insulin resistance compare to when they were in their teens. Not enough to be type 2 but resistance none the less. In the case of my aunt, she was so insulin resistant that her pancreas had to work far beyond normal and eventually "burned itself out." It went kaput and then she became a type 1 diabetic and had to take insulin shots throughout the day and with every meal.
There are some who advocate taking low dose short acting insulin prior to every meal to give your pancreas a break. I guess that sounds good but it also sounds like quite a hassle.
What I don't understand is how HGH causes insulin resistance. HGH will not suppress insulin but insulin will suppress HGH. If immediately after a high intensity workout, which studies have shown stimulate HGH production, you have a high carb drink it will suppress the HGH you stimulated. It is better to stretch out after a workout for about 20-30 minutes before eating anything. That way you keep your blood sugar low and conducive to a GH producing environment.
I heard about this a little while ago, no insulin=hgh production. ever since I never get snacks between meals, I eat 4 meals max everyday, 3 on non training day. but still calculate calories so i get enough to grow.. also I always get minimum 10 hours straight eating nothing, so i dont eat for 2-3 hours before going to bed. believe me or not I got so much leaner from this than when i used to eat 5-6 meals+eating before bed.. of course for people taking gh, things are completely different.. my 2 cents
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I'm pretty sure they were testing whether you were producing GH normally. GH is released in a pulsatile manner and testing for GH without this insulin provocation method will not tell how much you're producing overall. Alternately you can test for IGF-1 which is more stable in the blood and a good indicator of normal GH production.
Insulin sensitivity would be tested for via glucose challenge for example (you drink 75g of dextrose and test BG at intervals).
You are always producing some insulin, high carb diet or not. Insulin resistance from bad diet is mostly due to eating too much period, not just due to the evil carbohydrate or sugar. Research shows high fat to carb ratio in the diet can also induce insulin resistance. Excessive protein the same.
People are obese = people are insulin resistant. :D
HGH cause increased fatty acid oxidization, which in turn reduces glucose oxidization. There is then a buildup up of glucose and this causes the resistance through pathways I don't remember.
Trying to affect muscle growth through nutrient timing (via hormonal effects) is pretty useless. There's a bunch of things you can do to raise GH but none of it will do jack as far as muscle growth. I remember when Larry Scott said to sit in a sauna between sets without drinking water to boost GH. Completely useless. :D Transient peaks will do nothing, especially when the GH boosting methods are catabolic in themselves, such as fasting. To really get the benefits of GH you need the synthetic one. :D
The test was for insulin sensitivity. That much was made clear. In fact, at the time I didn't know jack and felt like such a pussy because as soon as they injected the insulin I started blacking out. I remember the nurses were talking and heard one of them say, "He's passing out. Inject the dextrose." I went under faster than they thought as they mentioned afterwards. They told me it varies considerably from person to person and they've had cases where they've injected the same amount of insulin in another person and it had virtually no effect. I remember feeling dejected and told them I thought I was a bit tougher than that. They just laughed and said it was good thing. Just then my doctor walked in with the print out which was being typed out in another room and said that it was just as he expected. I was very insulin sensitive because I was a competitive athlete at the time. He explained why being insulin sensitive was a good thing and that exercise and vigorous physical activity contributes to that.
And, yes, you are always producing insulin but like everything in life it's a matter of degrees. Some are producing more than others and a lot of that has to do with how much you eat and what you eat. If you are eating jelly beans all day as oppose to broccoli sticks even if the caloric value is the same it will make a difference hormonally. My aunt, who eventually developed type 2 and later type 1 diabetes was far from obese. She wasn't a stick figure but she certainly wasn't fat at any time in her life despite eating constantly. Always potato chips, cookies and mochi (a rubbery, sweet type of rice cake).
I don't know how much nutrient timing effects muscle growth but assuming HGH is good for health and anti-aging nutrient timing does matter. If you are drinking a sugary type drink while doing high intensity exercise it will blunt HGH production. If you eat a high glycemic meal prior to sleep it will blunt HGH production. I'm fifty now and have never used HGH. But when I compare myself to my brothers, who don't exercise at all we don't even look like were related anymore. I have four brothers and with one exception they all started going gray in their thirties and all are over weight. I have just a tasteful grey frosting that doesn't even show up in pics and keep myself fashionably twinkish. Same genetic back ground but vastly different life styles.
I remember watching a show on aging sometime last year and one of the definitions of aging that they used was your body losing the ability to repair itself. They attributed this process to a large part on HGH production. When you are young you in a sense "over repair" and grow. Then it tapers off and as you grow older and your HGH production is really low your body just starts breaking down. It can no longer keep up with the day to day regeneration process. Eventually you wear out and die.
Here I am on the far left. The person on the far right is my younger brother by three years.
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Also with my cousin who is 7 years younger than I am taken during the Penn/Sanchez fight. When we were kids we looked the most alike at our respective ages. Meaning, when he was 12 he looked practically like my twin when I was 12. BTW, I only wear that shirt for Penn fights and never in public. Unless it's with a TapOut beanie and Vale Tudo shorts.
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I heard about this a little while ago, no insulin=hgh production. ever since I never get snacks between meals, I eat 4 meals max everyday, 3 on non training day. but still calculate calories so i get enough to grow.. also I always get minimum 10 hours straight eating nothing, so i dont eat for 2-3 hours before going to bed. believe me or not I got so much leaner from this than when i used to eat 5-6 meals+eating before bed.. of course for people taking gh, things are completely different.. my 2 cents
:) I do the same, I always wait as long as i can after a meal, before going to bed.
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:) I do the same, I always wait as long as i can after a meal, before going to bed.
You know, I eat 4 meals a day. The typical breakfast, lunch and dinner and then I always eat right before I hit the sack. I usually eat at around 11:00 PM and get to sleep at around 1:00-1:30 am. If I don't then I lose around5-8 pounds over night. But my last meal is just protein and fat. No or very little carbs. It can vary from a protein drink, fried chicken or tonight where I microwaved some egg whites with turkey meatballs and some spaghetti sauce.
BTW, since my cousin and I were so similar growing up. Same build nearly the same height. I think that if I quit training and HRT all together I would pretty much have the build he has now. He's 6 feet and about 165 pounds. Since I'm about an inch taller, using gh15's 7 pound per inch rule, that would put me at a bit over 170 lbs. I hover around 185 lbs. Kind of depressing to think that for someone who has been training consistently for 38 years, longer than Jay Cutler has been alive, that I've only managed to put on 15 pounds of muscle on my frame. LOL. But in life your choices are rarely between good or bad but rather between bad or worse. Fifteen pounds is fifteen pounds. I wish I knew more about testosterona and HGH and the whole mutation process when it mattered.
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Also with my cousin who is 7 years younger than I am taken during the Penn/Sanchez fight. When we were kids we looked the most alike at our respective ages. Meaning, when he was 12 he looked practically like my twin when I was 12. BTW, I only wear that shirt for Penn fights and never in public. Unless it's with a TapOut beanie and Vale Tudo shorts.
looking good, pellius (no homo).
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Hey pellius, You train with the old HIT circuit style right? If you really want to get bigger muscles I have a few ideas for you, so if you're interested just say so.
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Hey pellius, You train with the old HIT circuit style right? If you really want to get bigger muscles I have a few ideas for you, so if you're interested just say so.
He said that he traines "milos style" i would call it, where he moves around after a set just to keep his heart rate high so he would benefit from some aerobic action as well.
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When this milos style does one train til failure on the work sets?
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When this milos style does one train til failure on the work sets?
milos does giant sets....search it on youtube...i think its not to failure..
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apparently :'(
regarding anything palumbo advises.
i think its wise to look at what he did to himself using this stuff - before insulin and gh guys looked incredible. without insulin and gh guys will look incredible.
why chance possible palumboism, pancreatitis and diabetes on a peptide that has no muscle growing properties that costs loads more than muscle producing steroids and rampantly faked also all on the say so of a few pro bodybuilders that think its great ???
yes, please do that the next time you think anyone will care what your opinion is.
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The test was for insulin sensitivity. That much was made clear. In fact, at the time I didn't know jack and felt like such a pussy because as soon as they injected the insulin I started blacking out. I remember the nurses were talking and heard one of them say, "He's passing out. Inject the dextrose." I went under faster than they thought as they mentioned afterwards. They told me it varies considerably from person to person and they've had cases where they've injected the same amount of insulin in another person and it had virtually no effect. I remember feeling dejected and told them I thought I was a bit tougher than that. They just laughed and said it was good thing. Just then my doctor walked in with the print out which was being typed out in another room and said that it was just as he expected. I was very insulin sensitive because I was a competitive athlete at the time. He explained why being insulin sensitive was a good thing and that exercise and vigorous physical activity contributes to that.
And, yes, you are always producing insulin but like everything in life it's a matter of degrees. Some are producing more than others and a lot of that has to do with how much you eat and what you eat. If you are eating jelly beans all day as oppose to broccoli sticks even if the caloric value is the same it will make a difference hormonally. My aunt, who eventually developed type 2 and later type 1 diabetes was far from obese. She wasn't a stick figure but she certainly wasn't fat at any time in her life despite eating constantly. Always potato chips, cookies and mochi (a rubbery, sweet type of rice cake).
I don't know how much nutrient timing effects muscle growth but assuming HGH is good for health and anti-aging nutrient timing does matter. If you are drinking a sugary type drink while doing high intensity exercise it will blunt HGH production. If you eat a high glycemic meal prior to sleep it will blunt HGH production. I'm fifty now and have never used HGH. But when I compare myself to my brothers, who don't exercise at all we don't even look like were related anymore. I have four brothers and with one exception they all started going gray in their thirties and all are over weight. I have just a tasteful grey frosting that doesn't even show up in pics and keep myself fashionably twinkish. Same genetic back ground but vastly different life styles.
I remember watching a show on aging sometime last year and one of the definitions of aging that they used was your body losing the ability to repair itself. They attributed this process to a large part on HGH production. When you are young you in a sense "over repair" and grow. Then it tapers off and as you grow older and your HGH production is really low your body just starts breaking down. It can no longer keep up with the day to day regeneration process. Eventually you wear out and die.
Here I am on the far left. The person on the far right is my younger brother by three years.
Excercise and loosing weight will reverse insulin resistance in anyone overnight. Keeping carb below a certain amount will not. Insulin sensitivity decreases with age though so that is impressive you are still sensitive. Fish oils improe insulin sensitivity as well What did your diet consit of all these years Pellius? Do you ever eat sweets like cake and icecream? You look great for your age bro
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The test was for insulin sensitivity. That much was made clear.
Not to be argumentative, but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_sensitivity#Diagnosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_tolerance_test
Regarding development of adult onset diabetes, I remember that it depends on "race", how much weight you can gain before going resistant. For example, IIRC, Euros can gain an enormous amount of fat whereas some South Americans can only put on a couple of pounds before developing diabetes.
I doubt nutrient timing affects total GH production throughout the day. You can get a transient elevation but there's homeostasis - it's not like you can get a zero GH by eating carbs every meal vs. having high total GH production by cutting out all carbs, or cutting them at night or pre/post workout. There are checks and balances. GH isn't released just at night and workout times, it's released in a pulsatile manner throughout the day.
BTW, did you know steroids increase GH levels? You being on Test means you have higher GH than you would otherwise.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17550998
http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/4/577
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/3/1613
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yes, please do that the next time you think anyone will care what your opinion is.
Christ
That's a mutation that wet all wrong ;D
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Hey pellius, You train with the old HIT circuit style right? If you really want to get bigger muscles I have a few ideas for you, so if you're interested just say so.
Please share any ideas you have. We're all here to learn (except for the schmoes -- lol) I'm always open to new training ideas.
I still follow the basic principles that I learned in my early twenties reading Jones and later Mentzer. Currently train 3x/wk (pushing movements, pulling movements, legs) though I only trained 2x/wk (upper/lower) during my Jiu-Jitsu/MMA days. Pretty much always use some kind of intensity variables (forced reps, drop sets, pre-exhaust rest pause, burns...) and moving from one set to another without rest except when doing leg pressing movements (squats, hacks, leg press) but even then walking back and forth until I get my breath. No sitting around txt messaging, BSing or watching TV. As Jones said, train the muscles anaerobically and the body aerobically.
Pics taken just before 50th bday.
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Excercise and loosing weight will reverse insulin resistance in anyone overnight. Keeping carb below a certain amount will not. Insulin sensitivity decreases with age though so that is impressive you are still sensitive. Fish oils improe insulin sensitivity as well What did your diet consit of all these years Pellius? Do you ever eat sweets like cake and icecream? You look great for your age bro
I've always been kind of a health nut and watched what I eat. Always made sure to get at least a gram of protein per lb of bodyweight. Usually more. Also, I've always been a sucker since my teens using supps. Still am. Swallow tons of pills. Multi vit, green tea, fish oil, tumeric, reseveratol, arginine/glutamine, cq10, 3 grams C/day... the list goes on. I know many here shake their head. What can I say?
I've been a big user of fish oil since the late eighties taking about 3 grams/ day. That's 3000mg of the EPA/DHA because that's what counts. The amount of EPA/DHA can vary widely with a gram of the fish oil itself.
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milos does giant sets....search it on youtube...i think its not to failure..
For me, positive failure is when I consider the beginning of the set. When the work is just getting started. After I barely crank out that last rep I often say to myself, "OK, now it begins." I don't know if it's necessary for muscle growth but I think it does help with conditioning, I mean in a physical shape kind of way not looks, and I believe it toughens you up. You learn to push yourself and endure a bit of pain. If you randomly watch others train most don't even close to their limits. When they stop at 8 reps they easily could have done 5 or 6 more. Jones use to say that below a certain threshold of intensity exercise will do little or nothing in the way of increasing size, strength and functional ability. To me it makes intuitive sense. If you are always doing something that is relatively easy how will it stimulate an adaptive response? What that intensity level is no one knows for sure. Maybe it's 75% or 90% but we really can't measure that meaningfully. How do you know when you are working at 85% of your capacity? We can measure zero, no effort, and 100%, maximum effort. But I don't know how to determine anything in between. But if say, 90% is all we need then I know that 100% will also do the trick and that I can measure.
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Damn dude, I see that you know yo stuff ;D I've recently read a theory that I think has alot of wisdom within it, and it goes something like this "For muscular growth, you need to use heavy resistance, and then you can improve the growth process by extending your sets". In my own experience this statement is spot on, so I will share with you an example of this with chest training. P.S. I got my best pec growth doing this cycle. Start with Incline presses 4 to 6 reps to failure plus 4 forced reps, and then immediately go to pec deck with a triple drop each set taken to failure plus 4 forced reps with each weight, and then finish off with negative-only dips taken to failure within 4 to 6 reps. Now that's hard work ;D But yeah, I know that it ain't so partical, coz you certainly need a trainer to push you through that cycle, which I did have 8) Now, that's a Jonesian cycle, yes?
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Not to be argumentative, but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_sensitivity#Diagnosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_tolerance_test
Regarding development of adult onset diabetes, I remember that it depends on "race", how much weight you can gain before going resistant. For example, IIRC, Euros can gain an enormous amount of fat whereas some South Americans can only put on a couple of pounds before developing diabetes.
I doubt nutrient timing affects total GH production throughout the day. You can get a transient elevation but there's homeostasis - it's not like you can get a zero GH by eating carbs every meal vs. having high total GH production by cutting out all carbs, or cutting them at night or pre/post workout. There are checks and balances. GH isn't released just at night and workout times, it's released in a pulsatile manner throughout the day.
BTW, did you know steroids increase GH levels? You being on Test means you have higher GH than you would otherwise.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17550998
http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/4/577
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/3/1613
There's nothing in those links that I disagree with. And I think race/ethnicity determines a lot, if not everything, on how you respond or how life style effects you. I think your life style does effect GH production as it does all hormonal activity. You will stimulate more insulin production if you are constant eating sweets all day. I believe you stimulate more HGH than you normally word by engaging in high intensity exercise and getting enough sleep then if you never train and not get enough sleep.
If you get twins and one of them for their entire life is as lazy as fuck and just eats whatever and whenever and as much as he wants and the other is a health nut and engages in regular high intensity exercise since their early teens what will be the difference, if any, between the two regarding how they aged when they are, say, 48 years? And if you think there will be a difference what do you think accounts for it?
When I took that test for GH/Insulin it was prior to me being on HRT. I was already forty and these were test done by my endo to justify prescribing me with testosterone which was on the low side at the time. My GH response and level was considered high from that test done. HRT definitely increased my test levels and I felt it. But, though it is now much higher it is not out of range. Despite having a much higher test level now then I did when I was forty I don't think my GH production is higher or even equal to what it was at forty. I definitely feel much older now and fatigue and recovery, as well as my ability to perform physically, is a constant battle and I feel a steady decline. And, again, this is with a much higher test level now than 10 yrs ago. I suspect it's because of lower HGH production and all the testosterona isn't going to change that. I plan on starting 2.5ius of the Red Tops in the beginning of the new year. I'm sure, or hope, it will help with the aging process but I also know that father time waits for no one. All the hormonas in the world isn't going to keep you young forever. But at least I can still walk up a couple of flights of stairs without nearly passing out as my younger brother almost did when we were going to our car in the parking garage because the elevator seemed to be dead.
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Damn dude, I see that you know yo stuff ;D I've recently read a theory that I think has alot of wisdom within it, and it goes something like this "For muscular growth, you need to use heavy resistance, and then you can improve the growth process by extending your sets". In my own experience this statement is spot on, so I will share with you an example of this with chest training. P.S. I got my best pec growth doing this cycle. Start with Incline presses 4 to 6 reps to failure plus 4 forced reps, and then immediately go to pec deck with a triple drop each set taken to failure plus 4 forced reps with each weight, and then finish off with negative-only dips taken to failure within 4 to 6 reps. Now that's hard work ;D But yeah, I know that it ain't so partical, coz you certainly need a trainer to push you through that cycle, which I did have 8) Now, that's a Jonesian cycle, yes?
I do something similar. After warming up with some pushing and isolating exercises I pretty much always start out with an isolating movement first, virtually always the pec dec because nothing hits the pecs better for me. I have long arms and if I start out with a compound movement I always feel it in my triceps and that gives out first. I do drops sets with the pec deck and always burns at the end. Really stretching them out and pumping out the partials until they burn. Then I go to the incline. On some machines I can do force reps by pushing on the lever with my feet and force reps are always my first choice. I'll also do a couple of negatives if I am able to raise the weight completely with my legs. If I can't do force reps I'll do drop sets and rest pause. Then it's back to the pec dec or cable/dumbbell flies for another drop set then a decline compound movement such as the Hammer decline -- again for drop sets and partials/burns at the end. So I'm adding one isolating set to my routine then you are but as I mentioned, if I don't do a pre-exhaust, I feel the pressing movements only in my tris. But after a set of flies, and really burning them with the partials, as soon as I start slowing lowering the bar (and I always emphasize the negative portion of the movement) on the compound movement I can already feel my chest screaming as the muscle is being stretched out again.
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pellius aren't you on constant hrt and gh therapy ?
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pellius aren't you on constant hrt and gh therapy ?
I've been on HRT continuously for the last ten years beginning at age 40. No HGH but as I mentioned in the previous thread I plan on going on 2.5 ius Red Tops for the rest of my life beginning the new year. I so wish I started earlier. Kind of pointless at this stage in my life to go on a mutation cycle and though the benefits of HGH is pretty well established it can't be good for you to take this, or any hormone, at super high levels for extended periods of time. At this point in my life my main priority is health and fitness. That wouldn't have been the case 25 years ago if I knew then what I know now because I would have like to have tested my limits. But at 50 yo? Just having visible abs puts me way ahead of the game and I count my blessings. I don't want to tempt fate.
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Well man, you train hard, and there's no doubt bout dat ;D But, the question, and the key is... ARE YOU PROGRESSING? If you are, then you WILL gain size. Also, I think dat it's a mistake to start an extended training cycle with an isolation movement. This expert trainer of mine always told me "THE MOST IMPORTANT EXERCISE IS THIS 1ST COMPOUND MOVEMENT, AND IF YOUR WEIGHT CONTINUES TO INCREASE ON IT THEN YOU WILL HAVE BIGGER PECS" P.S. He had a 700 pound plus bench to his credit, so me thinks dat he knows something bout massive pecs ;D
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Well man, you train hard, and there's no doubt bout dat ;D But, the question, and the key is... ARE YOU PROGRESSING? If you are, then you WILL gain size. Also, I think dat it's a mistake to start an extended training cycle with an isolation movement. This expert trainer of mine always told me "THE MOST IMPORTANT EXERCISE IS THIS 1ST COMPOUND MOVEMENT, AND IF YOUR WEIGHT CONTINUES TO INCREASE ON IT THEN YOU WILL HAVE BIGGER PECS" P.S. He had a 700 pound plus bench to his credit, so me thinks dat he knows something bout massive pecs ;D
True. But there is a reason why it's so hard to put on muscle beyond normal levels. Your body doesn't like it. Muscle, even at rest, requires constant metabolic support. Given the slightest excuse it will get rid of muscle. Look what happens to your leg or arm when it is in a cast or when you stop training for a few weeks. Not so with fat. From you body's perspective fat is stored energy which it sees as a good thing and most have a virtually unlimited capacity to store fat. If a person is training hard and has everything else intact he will reach his naturally limits pretty quickly. Your body is programmed to limit it's capacity for carrying muscle. Everyone that trains seriously for some time instinctively knows this, except for Basile. Then you take drugs to exceed your natural limits. Then you again reach a plateau. So you take more drugs, then HGH, insulin, peptides.... And the reason you have to do this is that the human body is simply not design to carry that much muscle. To be 5'10" 265 at single digits. Those are the aptly name mutants and even when you reach that stage it is fleeting. You will shrink quickly just by reducing drug intact forget about going off completely.
A muscle simply contracts. Whether to facilitate movement (positive), maintain a position (static), or control the lowering portion (negative). To stimulate an adaptive response you have to over load that muscle. How it is done is of less importance then that it is actually done. In a compound movement, say the bench press, you have many muscles working in unison -- primarily the triceps, front delts and pecs. The degree in which each of these muscles are stimulated varies widely from individual to individual. Some will use more pecs, some more delts, some more tricep. I do know that of the three groups the triceps are the weakest. It's the weak link. It will fail before the much bigger and stronger pec muscles are exhausted. In my case, I feel it acutely. In virtually all compound pressing movements I feel my triceps giving out first. Even as a kid I always felt push-ups in my triceps. This is one of the reason Jones came up with the pullover machine as his first Nautilus equipment. He knew in lat exercises, pulling movements, that the biceps was the weak link and wanted to find a way to isolate the lat under a full range of motion.
And I'm sure your 700 lb bench pressing friend has tremendous pecs but are they comparable to Arnold or Lou both of whom never came remotely close to those poundages? There is a correlation between size and strength but not a direct causation. No world champion squatter in the same weight class as Jay Cutler can match the development in Jay's left quad. And Jay can't even come close to squatting what these beast do.
Are you progressing continuously? Putting on muscle from month to month, year to year? Can you post a pic today and a pic taken six months or a year ago and see any discernible difference? After five years of serious training, unless there is drastic difference in the amount of anabolics and related products taken, I have never seen anybody make much progress in muscle gain after that. There may be slight or even dramatic differences in appearances attributed to diet but as far as lean muscle gain. Not much. I've pretty much been at my current weight for the last 20-25 years.
How long have you been training? And post a recent pic of you now. Then in six months post another pic and see if we can tell a difference. People move heavier weights all the time without any appreciable increase in muscle size. Power lifters/Olympic lifters are good examples. They can get stronger and stronger each year but still remain in the same weight class.
Correlation is not causation.
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Good post man, I've been out of serious training for an extended time, and just recently I've started to get quite serious again so there isn't much to show at the moment. But, I can give you a rather good example of progressive overload=muscle size gains. 12 years ago I increase my leg press from 3 plates a side for 6 reps to 5 plates a side for 6 reps over a 5 week period training my legs once every 6 days. During this time my bodyweight went up 5 pounds and I lost 1% point of bodyfat, and I added a full 2 inches to each quad over this 5 week period. Oh, and by the way, this 700 pound bench guy is named JM Blakely, and it's quite easy to find his pics on the net, and see that he holds his own in comparison to the bodybuilders that you mentioned.
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When talking about powerlifting or olympic lifting you have to remember that a lifter can improve his numbers quite a bit without actually getting stronger at all really. By stronger I mean muscularly stronger. A lifter might angle his feet out by half an inch and get 40lbs more on his deadlift for example. So it's technique, improving leverage, not muscular strength per se.
The strength of a muscle is correlated with its size. But you can't say that you got stronger without gaining size unless you factor in everything, technique included. Even harder to compare one individual to another. But within one person, increasing loads with same exact technique, same tempo etc means the muscle(s) used are bigger.
Everyone instinctively believes higher load = more muscle or they would stay with the 20lb dumbells (no one does, no matter how "pumped" they get with low loads). It's the relative importance of load that people somewhat disagree upon. Some believe fatigue is more important, some believe pump is important and so on.
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Great post van! My legs got bigger as a result of using a greater (heavier) load on the leg press. And yes, you can get stronger without getting bigger by improving the "skill" of a particular exercise.
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When talking about powerlifting or olympic lifting you have to remember that a lifter can improve his numbers quite a bit without actually getting stronger at all really. By stronger I mean muscularly stronger. A lifter might angle his feet out by half an inch and get 40lbs more on his deadlift for example. So it's technique, improving leverage, not muscular strength per se.
The strength of a muscle is correlated with its size. But you can't say that you got stronger without gaining size unless you factor in everything, technique included. Even harder to compare one individual to another. But within one person, increasing loads with same exact technique, same tempo etc means the muscle(s) used are bigger.
Everyone instinctively believes higher load = more muscle or they would stay with the 20lb dumbells (no one does, no matter how "pumped" they get with low loads). It's the relative importance of load that people somewhat disagree upon. Some believe fatigue is more important, some believe pump is important and so on.
it has been proven beyond all doubt load is far more important for hypertrophy. some may think different but they would be wrong. fatigue and volume has a limit in the amount of hypertrophy it can stimulate - load has none.
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When talking about powerlifting or olympic lifting you have to remember that a lifter can improve his numbers quite a bit without actually getting stronger at all really. By stronger I mean muscularly stronger. A lifter might angle his feet out by half an inch and get 40lbs more on his deadlift for example. So it's technique, improving leverage, not muscular strength per se.
The strength of a muscle is correlated with its size. But you can't say that you got stronger without gaining size unless you factor in everything, technique included. Even harder to compare one individual to another. But within one person, increasing loads with same exact technique, same tempo etc means the muscle(s) used are bigger.
Everyone instinctively believes higher load = more muscle or they would stay with the 20lb dumbells (no one does, no matter how "pumped" they get with low loads). It's the relative importance of load that people somewhat disagree upon. Some believe fatigue is more important, some believe pump is important and so on.
That's why there is a correlation between size and strength not a causation. For a muscle to get bigger it has to get stronger. But that doesn't necessarily translate to getting stronger means you will get bigger. You gave some of the reasons. You can move more weight in a given movement simply because you get better and more efficient at doing that movement.
As I quoted to suckymuscle:
"In summary, the ability to exert more force after strength training is not solely the result of muscle fiber adaptations, but involves extremely important adaptations in connective tissue and the nervous system as well. Many scientists argue that the connective tissue and nervous system adaptations are probably more important to overall strength gains than the changes in the muscle fibers. Without a doubt, it will take continued research in the areas of strength adaptations to elucidate the specific details of the current theories."
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it has been proven beyond all doubt load is far more important for hypertrophy. some may think different but they would be wrong. fatigue and volume has a limit in the amount of hypertrophy it can stimulate - load has none.
I'm not sure about that.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/08/12/new-secret-building-muscle-revealed-pump-iron/
Remember that force generated and intensity are not always the same. During the course of a set force is high in the beginning and intensity is low. As the set progresses the force generated drops as the intensity increases. And there is a concept called inroads. If you can curl 135 lbs for 6 reps failing on the 7th that just means you can no longer generate the required 135 lbs. You probably could generate 125 lbs or so. With higher reps, which necessitates lower weight, you are able to "dig deeper" in a sense -- making greater inroads into the muscle group. Certainly, no one believes that maximum one rep sets are ideal for muscle growth even if progressive. Say you pick a weight that you can only do once and then when you can do 2 reps you raise the resistance continuing on and on progressively.
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some hypertrophy - if they continued that study it would have showed drastically reduced hypertrophy after each workout until it produced none.
you dont really believe anyone could simply add a rep to a 30% rm each workout and grow forever do you ?
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I heard about this a little while ago, no insulin=hgh production. ever since I never get snacks between meals, I eat 4 meals max everyday, 3 on non training day. but still calculate calories so i get enough to grow.. also I always get minimum 10 hours straight eating nothing, so i dont eat for 2-3 hours before going to bed. believe me or not I got so much leaner from this than when i used to eat 5-6 meals+eating before bed.. of course for people taking gh, things are completely different.. my 2 cents
Just as an aside, it's more low blood sugar=greater HGH production. Remember during my test they injected insulin into my vein. The spike in HGH occurred when my blood sugar dropped below a certain point and kept rising as blood sugar levels kept falling due to the burst of insulin pumped into me. After I was injected with dextrose and blood sugar rose that's when the HGH level dropped. That's one of the reason you produce HGH at night because during sleep, when you are not eating, blood sugar levels start to drop.
I remember asking my doctor, an endocrinologist, if one could conceivably stimulate HGH production by injecting themselves with fast acting insulin. He said of course but would recommend against it due to the potential side effects; namely, coma and death.
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Mike Mentzer stated that he made his greatest gains in muscular size using Rest-Pause. Let's say someone goes from 225 for 6 reps to 405 for 6 reps on the bench press. THERE IS NO FUCKING DOUBT THAT HIS PECS, DELTS, AND TRIS WILL BE MUCH, MUCH BIGGER.
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some hypertrophy - if they continued that study it would have showed drastically reduced hypertrophy after each workout until it produced none.
you dont really believe anyone could simply add a rep to a 30% rm each workout and grow forever do you ?
No, I don't believe that. I believe that virtually any routine, though it may initially produce gains in muscle mass, will eventually cease being productive. Eventually everyone reaches their limit natural or enhanced. I doubt Jay will put on any appreciable amount muscle size at this point. It's just a matter of conditioning.
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Mike Mentzer stated that he made his greatest gains in muscular size using Rest-Pause. Let's say someone goes from 225 for 6 reps to 405 for 6 reps on the bench press. THERE IS NO FUCKING DOUBT THAT HIS PECS, DELTS, AND TRIS WILL BE MUCH, MUCH BIGGER.
I remember quite clearly when Mentzer wrote his article in Muscle and Fitness or whatever it was called then. I believe it was in 1979. I don't recall him saying that he made his greatest gains using rest-pause. I do remember saying how much he progressed after meeting Casey Viator and training with Jones.
And, yes, going from 225 lbs to 405 lbs, will make a drastic difference in muscle size. As I said before: world class bodybuilders, though not strength athletes as such, are easily some of the strongest athletes on this planet. Jay cannot even come close to matching the numbers of a power lifter in his weight class. He's not even one of the top strongest bodybuilders on stage today. But in comparison to other athletes, forget the average man his size, he is one of the strongest humans on this planet.
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it has been proven beyond all doubt load is far more important for hypertrophy. some may think different but they would be wrong. fatigue and volume has a limit in the amount of hypertrophy it can stimulate - load has none.
yes.
pay attention and learn-
you too can achieve this level of conditioning and muscularity!
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yes.
pay attention and learn-
you too can achieve this level of conditioning and muscularity!
LMAO
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Just as an aside, it's more low blood sugar=greater HGH production. Remember during my test they injected insulin into my vein. The spike in HGH occurred when my blood sugar dropped below a certain point and kept rising as blood sugar levels kept falling due to the burst of insulin pumped into me. After I was injected with dextrose and blood sugar rose that's when the HGH level dropped. That's one of the reason you produce HGH at night because during sleep, when you are not eating, blood sugar levels start to drop.
I remember asking my doctor, an endocrinologist, if one could conceivably stimulate HGH production by injecting themselves with fast acting insulin. He said of course but would recommend against it due to the potential side effects; namely, coma and death.
Natty gh production is not something any bber should worry about. Eat icecream before you go to bed or eat nothing, your body wll still find a way to release the gh. :)
id much rather take 6IU's of gh and eat icecream all day so I can laugh at the twinks drinking olive oil before bed to spike their natural gh. all genetics baby! ::)