Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: dj181 on December 25, 2010, 03:13:43 PM
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Should growth be quickly apparent as a result of proper training? And if it's not quickly apparent does this mean that there is something wrong with one's training? Vanbilderass said something very interesting regarding this topic, so it inspired me to ask these questions. P.S. I asked these questions from a natural trainers perspective, coz I am a natural trainer, and therefore am thinking from a natural trainers perspective.
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first off your gonna have to tell us, do you train naturally?
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Yeah man, I said that I train naturally. And I asked this question coz I ALWAYS grew in spurts whenever I grew.
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dj are you serious about your goals enough to work on them immediatley?
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You don't even need to ask me that question Falcon, coz I'm literally obsessed with it man ;D
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if you insist on training naturally, be realistic about your goals
trying to get as large as possible will leave you fat and out of shape
you're best served eating right, doing plenty of cardio, and incorporating weights as part of a healthy lifestyle - as it was intended
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Assuming your training and dieting is fairly reasonable, it all boils down to your genetics. And the responses will run the whole gamut, from the few on either extreme (very poor and very good) to the majority, who'd get an average response.
Everyone responds well in the beginning because of the novelty factor, but very few people are patient enough to keep going naturally, year after year, since the increase in strength and size will decrease significantly. But IMO, people underestimate what is possible to achieve naturally - you won't look anything like a pro, but you can still improve and get in great shape over time, if you train properly and do all the needed stuff (nutrition, rest etc).
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Assuming your training and dieting is fairly reasonable, it all boils down to your genetics. And the responses will run the whole gamut, from the few on either extreme (very poor and very good) to the majority, who'd get an average response.
Everyone responds well in the beginning because of the novelty factor, but very few people are patient enough to keep going naturally, year after year, since the increase in strength and size will decrease significantly. But IMO, people underestimate what is possible to achieve naturally - you won't look anything like a pro, but you can still improve and get in great shape over time, if you train properly and do all the needed stuff (nutrition, rest etc).
CHE approved
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I think that you fellas are reading me wrong. I'm not asking for training advice, what I am asking is: SHOULD MUSCLE GROWTH COME VERY QUICKLY AND NEARLY RIGHT AWAY IF ONE IS USING THE CORRECT TRAINING PROTOCOL?
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if you insist on training naturally, be realistic about your goals
trying to get as large as possible will leave you fat and out of shape
you're best served eating right, doing plenty of cardio, and incorporating weights as part of a healthy lifestyle - as it was intended
this is a drugged up athlete since in those days we wee still considered athletes,,but its a drugged up one,,not mega anything but drugged up,,i do nto consider what he did drug usage since testosterona is natural to body but you get the idea...
gh15 approved
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I think that you fellas are reading me wrong. I'm not asking for training advice, what I am asking is: SHOULD MUSCLE GROWTH COME VERY QUICKLY AND NEARLY RIGHT AWAY IF ONE IS USING THE CORRECT TRAINING PROTOCOL?
ultimately, the more you put into natural training the less of a life you live
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Yeah man, I said that I train naturally. And I asked this question coz I ALWAYS grew in spurts whenever I grew.
X2
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if you insist on training naturally, be realistic about your goals
trying to get as large as possible will leave you fat and out of shape
you're best served eating right, doing plenty of cardio, and incorporating weights as part of a healthy lifestyle - as it was intended
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=360315.0;attach=395411;image)
He is right. I wish I could look like this, but I'm too short, too fat, too fugly and anything else that comes to mind. Something to shoot for, I suppose. I just borrowed a book from a friend called "Dinosaur Training". Seems to make sense so far. I've found over the long, long years that while there may be no one right way for everyone to train, there's plenty of wrong ones for each of us. Find what works best for you and then go for it. I try to vary the theme, always staying within the framework that has given me the most for my time and effort.
I'll never look as good as Steve, but then no one has nor will. Training is worth the effort.
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..."Just the first question alone could be debated for weeks.
How big can you get, or someone else with different genetics, different level of dedication/work ethic, access to proper information, quantity and quality of food, etc? Person A might be able to get much, much larger than person B without steroids. Some people with really great genetics can get much bigger WITHOUT ever touching a steroid than another person with crappy genetics can get WITH tons and tons of drugs. Seen it happen many times, actually."
the above statement is the reason why BODYBUILDING IS SHIT ,,THE REASON WHY BODYBUILDING IS NEVER GETTIGN ANYWHERE,,THE REASON WHY THE LIES ARE KILLING THIS CULT,,
i was sent this quote ,,i didnt want to make big deal out of it in major postings i actually like to ignroe balonie such as this that i get daily,,but i show it here for a reason ,,this is why bodybuilders are considered stupid by public,,considerd slow ,,,considered goolible and rec users by public,,this exact qupte above
the fella who wrote it go by name of ron herris,,he maybe the most stupid person bodybuilding has ever seen ,,he is really really poision in the young brains of up and comers and all bodybuilding rats,,he is really is twisting every little piece of truth and kill the cult into an isolated wacked up society,,this is very bad and very wrong,,
maybe the worst person on bodybuilding information edge ever,,since he condiered writer,,he is also making money from gaspari nutrition which is a red alert to all of you ,,should be very concerning
gh15 approved
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I think that you fellas are reading me wrong. I'm not asking for training advice, what I am asking is: SHOULD MUSCLE GROWTH COME VERY QUICKLY AND NEARLY RIGHT AWAY IF ONE IS USING THE CORRECT TRAINING PROTOCOL?
I did answer it - it will come quickly in the beginning, but if you are training naturally, the gains will slow down big time after the initial spurt. Even if you have great genetics, you will still have to fight tooth and nail to improve. And you should enjoy the lifting and look at the big picture - how your size and strength has progressed over say, 3/6 months - year, rather than jump on the scale or bring out the tape measure after every workout.
CHE approved
;D 8)
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Assuming your training and dieting is fairly reasonable, it all boils down to your genetics. And the responses will run the whole gamut, from the few on either extreme (very poor and very good) to the majority, who'd get an average response.
Everyone responds well in the beginning because of the novelty factor, but very few people are patient enough to keep going naturally, year after year, since the increase in strength and size will decrease significantly. But IMO, people underestimate what is possible to achieve naturally - you won't look anything like a pro, but you can still improve and get in great shape over time, if you train properly and do all the needed stuff (nutrition, rest etc).
X2 On the money right there.
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ultimately, the more you put into natural training the less of a life you live
That's the biggest downside to natural BB.
You do it "right", you can look "impressive" to the normal person, but still look pretty far away from a bodybuilder. You will never get that fullness without steroids.
Doing it right means having your diet in check all year, never missing a training, always training hard (not necessarily heavy).
It's frustrating when you have a demanding job, and/or a family, then it's almost impossible to get it all together. The family wants to eat in a good restaurant at times, and you spoiul all the fun when you sit there with a sour face or eat your chicken and broccoli from a tupper ware in a restaurant.
Business partners expect you to drink and eat and be funny until 5 in the morning when you have done a contract here where i live, that fucks up your training and diet for a few days.
When you're natural, it gets impossible to progress further if you don't dedicate your whole life to it.
But to answer the initial question from my point of view: With natural training, gains have never been immediate. Growth spurs happen, but i almost don't realize them because i need a high calorie diet and put on fat as well as muscle, after cutting, i can see how much success i really had. When truly natural, you can be really happy with a muscle gain of 10 lbs per year in the beginning, in later years you will probably not be able to put on more than 5lbs per year, but you will have to put on the same amount of fat to do that, lol.
Create a good natural base for as long as you can take the frustration, and then hit the sauce very slowly, low doses first, and try to keep the dosages low, this is the best approach if you don't plan to become a pro, IMO.
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I hear ya kiwi, but vanbilderass made a very insightful comment about gains coming pratically overnight, and I wholeheartly agree with this, since my natural muscle growth ALWAYS occured in spurts. And I remember reading Mike Mentzer saying the same thing. P.S. My fastest growth didn't happen until I was in my mid 20s, which was after over 10 years of fairly regular training.
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GH15- Do you believe that Ron Harris still uses?
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Natural- Depends how your body responds to training, food, and legal supplements.
Enhanced- Depends how your body responds to the above, plus hormones. Some pros never looked bigger than your average gym rat training natural. They just responded very well to anabolics. So sometimes genetic response to anabolics can over rule response to training and diet, too.
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That's the biggest downside to natural BB.
You do it "right", you can look "impressive" to the normal person, but still look pretty far away from a bodybuilder. You will never get that fullness without steroids.
Doing it right means having your diet in check all year, never missing a training, always training hard (not necessarily heavy).
It's frustrating when you have a demanding job, and/or a family, then it's almost impossible to get it all together. The family wants to eat in a good restaurant at times, and you spoiul all the fun when you sit there with a sour face or eat your chicken and broccoli from a tupper ware in a restaurant.
Business partners expect you to drink and eat and be funny until 5 in the morning when you have done a contract here where i live, that fucks up your training and diet for a few days.
When you're natural, it gets impossible to progress further if you don't dedicate your whole life to it.
But to answer the initial question from my point of view: With natural training, gains have never been immediate. Growth spurs happen, but i almost don't realize them because i need a high calorie diet and put on fat as well as muscle, after cutting, i can see how much success i really had. When truly natural, you can be really happy with a muscle gain of 10 lbs per year in the beginning, in later years you will probably not be able to put on more than 5lbs per year, but you will have to put on the same amount of fat to do that, lol.
Create a good natural base for as long as you can take the frustration, and then hit the sauce very slowly, low doses first, and try to keep the dosages low, this is the best approach if you don't plan to become a pro, IMO.
if you are anything over 28 you are wasting your time with natural training ,,better go play in the sand insted ,,or help the poor,,natural trainign is mainly for ages 16-22 ,,usually at 20-21 most americanos turn into aas and then later on if competing go gh,,thats the honest truth friends,,the sad truth is the level of abuse that going on at ages 24+ today ,,they realy really order 10 kits of gh ,,not 1-2 10! that is right there 1000 iu gh at age 25 ,,think about it ,,on 2 kits of gh you usually turn into a bodybuilder,,you become some what of mutant if aas is in ,,on 10 kits...you got that right ...you become kukli and can place 10th on a national show year after year well in his case he is young may get somwehre,,but tropopin is good example of wasting time lol
you get the idea..
gh15 approved
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ultimately, the more you put into natural training the less of a life you live
Not necessarily true, unless you make it to be. I made my best gains while having 100+ hour weeks - working a full-time job as well as a part-time job in the weekends on top of studying full-time. I still managed to go out and have fun once or twice a month, which is about as much as I want to anyway.
It's always the hard gainers who make a big deal about everything and waste too much time and money on things like training routines and supplements, from what I've seen. The big guys with good or great genetics who know how to train, hit the gym hard when they do, and then get on with their life when they're done.
The guys weighing 140lb are the ones who go home, read a ton of useless stuff, argue about it endlessly and spend money on crap supplements they don't need, on top of doing things like choking down on rice and chicken every 3 hours. And they still look bad years later, lol. Funny how that works.
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if you are anything over 28 you are wasting your time with natural training ,
Are you talking about competing ?
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Not necessarily true, unless you make it to be. I made my best gains while have 100+ hour weeks - working a full-time job as well as a part-time job in the weekends on top of studying full-time. I still managed to go out and have fun once or twice a month, which is about as much as I want to anyway.
It's always the hard gainers who make a big deal about everything and waste too much time and money on things like training routines and supplements, from what I've seen. The big guys with good or great genetics who know how to train hit the gym hard when they do, and then get on with their life when they're done.
The guys weighing 140lb are the ones who go home, read a ton of useless stuff, argue about it endlessly and spend money on crap supplements they don't need, on top of doing things like choking down on rice and chicken every 3 hours. And they still look bad years later, lol. Funny how that works.
You know why you made your best gains? You went to to the gym, did your thing and got the fuck out because you knew you had to be at work early tomorrow! You probably didn't just sit there and talk, took your little time more seriously. You enjoyed your days off and let your mind and body relax which is a very important factor! The guys who have nothing better to do but hit the gym twice a day, over train, stay up all night because they have no responsibility are the ones who make all the fundamental mistakes and never grow
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Not necessarily true, unless you make it to be. I made my best gains while have 100+ hour weeks - working a full-time job as well as a part-time job in the weekends on top of studying full-time. I still managed to go out and have fun once or twice a month, which is about as much as I want to anyway.
It's always the hard gainers who make a big deal about everything and waste too much time and money on things like training routines and supplements, from what I've seen. The big guys with good or great genetics who know how to train hit the gym hard when they do, and then get on with their life when they're done.
The guys weighing 140lb are the ones who go home, read a ton of useless stuff, argue about it endlessly and spend money on crap supplements they don't need, on top of doing things like choking down on rice and chicken every 3 hours. And they still look bad years later, lol. Funny how that works.
Well, depends all a bit on what you consider "big" and what you want to look like.
It's much easier to stay round 8% while keeping your muscles when you have a little chemical help, lol. It's all about convenience. ;D
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Well, depends all a bit on what you consider "big" and what you want to look like.
It's much easier to stay round 8% while keeping your muscles when you have a little chemical help, lol. It's all about convenience. ;D
LOL, not everything is about drugs!
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You know why you made your best gains? You went to to the gym, did your thing and got the fuck out because you knew you had to be at work early tomorrow! You probably didn't just sit there and talk, took your little time more seriously. You enjoyed your days off and let your mind and body relax which is a very important factor! The guys who have nothing better to do but hit the gym twice a day, over train, stay up all night because they have no responsibility are the ones who make all the fundamental mistakes and never grow
Spot on
Well, depends all a bit on what you consider "big" and what you want to look like.
Haha "big" as in natural standards, not the IFBB pro bodybuilding level. I'm talking about 17"+ arms and 220+ lb body weight at 15% or less body fat levels. Don't think there is such a thing as a big natural at 8% or less body fat, lol.
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Well, I gained 6 lean pounds in 5 weeks when I was 25, and I wasn't following any strict diet protocol, and my bodyfat % actually went down slightly.
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LOL, not everything is about drugs!
No, but they help. you still have to train, lol.
Spot on
Haha "big" as in natural standards, not the IFBB pro bodybuilding level. I'm talking about 17"+ arms and 220+ lb body weight at 15% or less body fat levels. Don't think there is such a thing as a big natural at 8% or less body fat, lol.
Ok, good that we cleared that up. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Are you talking about competing ?
you can compete natural at any age and los e to the juicer,,im talkin about GAINS,,you at age 28 will have no gains naturally ,,you will be stuck at numbers within 10-15lb zone,,while you are stress life,,girlproblem,,dont eat on the clock,,shit too omuch,,dont work out cuz sick,,etc etc....you will be on the lower end of the 15 lb range,,.......when everything is on spot ,,your workouts ,,your food,, your creatinelol ....you will be on the top part of the 15lb range,,you will consider it gains ---while in reality it will be no gains but playing with same numbers over and over and over like you belong on a chair next to jack nicolson in the kookoo nest movie lol
never the less the number 190 at any decent single digit bf at 5'10 will be a long long dream that wont comr true,,maybe youll hit 191 on halodrol for few weeks but then ,,,,hoopsi back to 178 moment you get back from ummm olympia expo where you showed it off
gh15 approved
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I hear ya kiwi, but vanbilderass made a very insightful comment about gains coming pratically overnight, and I wholeheartly agree with this, since my natural muscle growth ALWAYS occured in spurts. And I remember reading Mike Mentzer saying the same thing. P.S. My fastest growth didn't happen until I was in my mid 20s, which was after over 10 years of fairly regular training.
I think the growth spurts thing varies from person to person. Because of my genetics, my back, arms and shoulders always improve month after month, although we're talking about tiny improvements here (which add up over the years). I've had a few spurts here and there over the years, when breaking plateaus or after taking a few weeks break. But I'd say for me, the improvements have been gradual and not sudden so much.
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you can compete natural at any age and los e to the juicer,,im talkin about GAINS,,you at age 28 will have no gains naturally ,,you will be stuck at numbers within 10-15lb zone,,while you are stress life,,girlproblem,,dont eat on the clock,,shit too omuch,,dont work out cuz sick,,etc etc....you will be on the lower end of the 15 lb range,,.......when everything is on spot ,,your workouts ,,your food,, your creatinelol ....you will be on the top part of the 15lb range,,you will consider it gains ---while in reality it will be no gains but playing with same numbers over and over and over like you belong on a chair next to jack nicolson in the kookoo nest movie lol
never the less the number 190 at any decent single digit bf at 5'10 will be a long long dream that wont comr true,,maybe youll hit 191 on halodrol for few weeks but then ,,,,hoopsi back to 178 moment you get back from ummm olympia expo where you showed it off
gh15 approved
I kind of agree with you my gains after 28 were really small I got better but I didn't get much bigger.
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Spot on
Haha "big" as in natural standards, not the IFBB pro bodybuilding level. I'm talking about 17"+ arms and 220+ lb body weight at 15% or less body fat levels. Don't think there is such a thing as a big natural at 8% or less body fat, lol.
fella,,i trained some monster naturals ,,truly naturals nto the balonie you her about on boards on internet,,the most talented ones ,,italians with good structure and genetic capacity good backs good arms,,they stopped at 185 8-10% they coudnt go up even a lb over at this condition ,,they just coudnt ,,and they were VERY SERIOUS LIFTING HUGE WEIGHT AND IN GOOD FORM ,,ALSO TRYING EVERY TECHNIC,,AND DOING ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH DIET,,INFACT THEY SAT ON TABLE AND DIDNT WORK ONLY ATE ALL DAY EVERY 2 HOURS,,NO WORK SINCE LIVED HOME,,
naturals do not go over 185lb at single digit at 5'10!!! reduce or add 5-7lb per inch ,,
gh15 approved
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fella,,i trained some monster naturals ,,truly naturals nto the balonie you her about on boards on internet,,the most talented ones ,,italians with good structure and genetic capacity good backs good arms,,they stopped at 185 8-10% they coudnt go up even a lb over at this condition ,,they just coudnt ,,and they were VERY SERIOUS LIFTING HUGE WEIGHT AND IN GOOD FORM ,,ALSO TRYING EVERY TECHNIC,,AND DOING ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH DIET,,INFACT THEY SAT ON TABLE AND DIDNT WORK ONLY ATE ALL DAY EVERY 2 HOURS,,NO WORK SINCE LIVED HOME,,
naturals do not go over 185lb at single digit at 5'10!!! reduce or add 5-7lb per inch ,,
gh15 approved
5'9'' 175lbs 10% bf is my natural limit .
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fella,,i trained some monster naturals ,,truly naturals nto the balonie you her about on boards on internet,,the most talented ones ,,italians with good structure and genetic capacity good backs good arms,,they stopped at 185 8-10% they coudnt go up even a lb over at this condition ,,they just coudnt ,,and they were VERY SERIOUS LIFTING HUGE WEIGHT AND IN GOOD FORM ,,ALSO TRYING EVERY TECHNIC,,AND DOING ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH DIET,,INFACT THEY SAT ON TABLE AND DIDNT WORK ONLY ATE ALL DAY EVERY 2 HOURS,,NO WORK SINCE LIVED HOME,,
naturals do not go over 185lb at single digit at 5'10!!! reduce or add 5-7lb per inch ,,
gh15 approved
Yep. I've been told I've got really good genetics and I've trained for over 20 years on and off. At my peak, I was about 218lb at close to 20% body fat. Dieted down, I don't think I'd have weighed more than 175 - 180lb tops.
I don't care to juice, cause I'm never going to compete.
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5'9'' 175lbs 10% bf is my natural limit .
correct,, you can probably be 180 9-10 % if pushed very hard and tress free with no work in life waking up at 3 pm daily ,,but then again why do it to be 180-185 9%
gh15 approved
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Well, that's great fucking news for me, due to the fact that my PR was 154 sub-6 at 5'11" so fuck ya! Gimme then 30 lean pounds of pure muscle tissue 8)
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correct,, you can probably be 180 9-10 % if pushed very hard and tress free with no work in life waking up at 3 pm daily ,,but then again why do it to be 180-185 9%
gh15 approved
LOL!! ;D
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correct,, you can probably be 180 9-10 % if pushed very hard and tress free with no work in life waking up at 3 pm daily ,,but then again why do it to be 180-185 9%
gh15 approved
Nope ,believe me I pushed it very hard and every time I went over 175lbs I started getting fat I couldn't afford that because my line of work .
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My natural best was 6' 178lbs at 3.9% BF.
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How tall are you che?
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How tall are you che?
5' 9''
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if you are anything over 28 you are wasting your time with natural training ,,better go play in the sand insted ,,or help the poor,,natural trainign is mainly for ages 16-22 ,,usually at 20-21 most americanos turn into aas and then later on if competing go gh,,thats the honest truth friends,,the sad truth is the level of abuse that going on at ages 24+ today ,,they realy really order 10 kits of gh ,,not 1-2 10! that is right there 1000 iu gh at age 25 ,,think about it ,,on 2 kits of gh you usually turn into a bodybuilder,,you become some what of mutant if aas is in ,,on 10 kits...you got that right ...you become kukli and can place 10th on a national show year after year well in his case he is young may get somwehre,,but tropopin is good example of wasting time lol
you get the idea..
gh15 approved
Keep your shit out of this thread jackass, it's about natural training...
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correct,, you can probably be 180 9-10 % if pushed very hard and tress free with no work in life waking up at 3 pm daily ,,but then again why do it to be 180-185 9%
gh15 approved
qft.
Why go through all the shit of dieting down just to hear "hey, do you still work out?" when people see you in plain clothes next time, LOL.
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most possible good food=most possible acitivity=getting most out of your genetics
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Keep your shit out of this thread jackass, it's about natural training...
Why he just knows what most people expect out of natural training and it's something they can almost always never achieve! I agree it is a waste of time, even when you see a guy who's ripped up with abs, has some muscle who is 100% natural is more likely because he played soccer or basketball to achieve that look, the gym did very little.
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with few exceptions, natural trainers have two choices:
a) be fat and fill out a shirt
b) stay lean and look small when fully clothed
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It happens in spurts, i think it happens in spurts on gear as well only the frequency is far higher, less interval and the right stacks and it seems like lineal progression.
The guys that find their limits are the ones that don't fuck about with it, get in the gym train hard, get their nutrition right and have clear goals
Patience is key, i think about it like a piggy bank. You might not see changes day after day but every training session adds up and after a few months you step back and see changes.
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Not so man, I know dat I gots twink status, but I was sub-6 at 146 and at 154, and believe me... Those 8 pounds of pure lean muscle tissue made a big difference. And according to God I can even add 30 more pounds naturally, while staying sub-6 8) Fuck man! I would even take 20 more lean pounds ;D
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with few exceptions, natural trainers have two choices:
a) be fat and fill out a shirt
b) stay lean and look small when fully clothed
Absolutely!
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most possible good food=most possible acitivity=getting most out of your genetics
this
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fella,,i trained some monster naturals ,,truly naturals nto the balonie you her about on boards on internet,,the most talented ones ,,italians with good structure and genetic capacity good backs good arms,,they stopped at 185 8-10% they coudnt go up even a lb over at this condition ,,they just coudnt ,,and they were VERY SERIOUS LIFTING HUGE WEIGHT AND IN GOOD FORM ,,ALSO TRYING EVERY TECHNIC,,AND DOING ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH DIET,,INFACT THEY SAT ON TABLE AND DIDNT WORK ONLY ATE ALL DAY EVERY 2 HOURS,,NO WORK SINCE LIVED HOME,,
naturals do not go over 185lb at single digit at 5'10!!! reduce or add 5-7lb per inch ,,
gh15 approved
gh15, the "185lb @ 8-10% for 5'10 natural limit" you give there imo should be more specific because of what you have stated in your bible in the past.
I have a post saved of your natural limits bible that says there is no debate, no arguing that 175lbs @ 8% for 5'10 natural bodybuilder is the absolute limit.
This recent posting would be adding 10lbs more to the natural limits of the 5'10 frame of human compared to your posts/bible a few months ago.
Maybe "185lb @ nothing less than 10% for 5'10" would you say, or is the natural limit bible now updated if it is 185lb @ 8% for 5'10?
thanks,
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Shit! So it's 185 at sub-10? I thought that it was 185 at sub-6? Who what is it at sub-6? FYI, sub-10 is only average, and nothing to write home about.
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5'10 185 8-10% will only happen if you sit in your house all day long,,do absolitely nothing but eating and eating good foods naturally most of time,,waking up every day at 2 pm,, sleeping goodf 8-10 hours a night,,having no job beside few hours in gym a week,, and having the best genetic respond to training possible for natural ,,
do you know many who will do it? do you know many that will waste their life for over 3-4 years doing this? usually they will quit or get severely depressed after doing it repetedly 3-4 years and quit or go hormone route,,
so those 10 lb i added are for the absolit most dedicated PSYCOS out there who do nothing absolitly nothing but bodybuilding,,that mean living with granma or parents,,all day long home,,living on 500 bucks a month from god knows what,,and are in the gym every day 5 times a week ,,usually at night because they sleep all day or eat ,,abolitely no girlfriend in life,,absolitly minimal stress,, usualy they dotn even have credit card or bank accounts,,
now this may give you 185 8% at 5'10 ...closer to 10%
worth it?
ok
gh15 approved
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Shit! So it's 185 at sub-10? I thought that it was 185 at sub-6? Who what is it at sub-6? FYI, sub-10 is only average, and nothing to write home about.
oh no my friend,,6% at 185 is fully hormonized,, even at 5'10,,they usually jump from 180 to 195-200 and run between those numbers on aas only and small cycles at youger ages of 20-28 ,,those are what we call cycle for pennies
gh15 approved
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5'10 185 8-10% will only happen if you sit in your house all day long,,do absolitely nothing but eating and eating good foods naturally most of time,,waking up every day at 2 pm,, sleeping goodf 8-10 hours a night,,having no job beside few hours in gym a week,, and having the best genetic respond to training possible for natural ,,
do you know many who will do it? do you know many that will waste their life for over 3-4 years doing this? usually they will quit or get severely depressed after doing it repetedly 3-4 years and quit or go hormone route,,
so those 10 lb i added are for the absolit most dedicated PSYCOS out there who do nothing absolitly nothing but bodybuilding,,that mean living with granma or parents,,all day long home,,living on 500 bucks a month from god knows what,,and are in the gym every day 5 times a week ,,usually at night because they sleep all day or eat
now this may give you 185 8% at 5'10 ...closer to 10%
worth it?
ok
gh15 approved
You are a fucking retard.
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oh no my friend,,6% at 185 is fully hormonized,, even at 5'10,,they usually jump from 180 to 195-200 and run between those numbers on aas only and small cycles at youger ages of 20-28 ,,those are what we call cycle for pennies
gh15 approved
gh15 is correct...........
i knowcompetitors even lower in weight (160) at 5'7 and they are juiced to the max with hgh and such. me included.
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So what is max weight for sub-6 at 5'11"? Is 175 possible? Fuck sub-10, my plan is to stay at sub-8 year-round. And my best at sub-6 was 154.
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So what is max weight for sub-6 at 5'11"? Is 175 possible? Fuck sub-10, my plan is to stay at sub-8 year-round. And my best at sub-6 was 154.
arent you happy with that? most juicers are at the same category...
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So what is max weight for sub-6 at 5'11"? Is 175 possible? Fuck sub-10, my plan is to stay at sub-8 year-round. And my best at sub-6 was 154.
You think you may burn out on dieting year round staying at sub 8? It will be tough gaining mass may suffer. Course JNN and Devilsmile seem to do it but they are not massive just ripped depends on you goals. 8)
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So new ABSOLUTE limit of a 5'10 natural (no life, full bodybuilding) is now 185lbs @ 8% (minus/add 7lb from that number every inche of height).
175lbs 'absolute no question limit' @ 8% was only if allowed to see the sun shine for once a month ;D
Clarified. Thanks, gh15.
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So what is max weight for sub-6 at 5'11"? Is 175 possible? Fuck sub-10, my plan is to stay at sub-8 year-round. And my best at sub-6 was 154.
naturally you can step on stage 165-170 5-6% somewhere there close to 6% ,,from the front you will look 5% but moment you turn around youll look at lower back at think 6.5 % which will put you around 6% give or take
5'10-5'11 165-170lb on stage at 6% is great for true natural,,especially if he is symetric and balanced
gh15 approved
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So new ABSOLUTE limit of a 5'10 natural (no life, full bodybuilding) is now 185lbs @ 8% (minus/add 7lb from that number every inche of height).
175lbs 'absolute no question limit' @ 8% was only if allowed to see the sun shine for once a month ;D
Clarified. Thanks, gh15.
8-10% since its very veery hard to say bf% until you go lower with water weight held on body,,8-10% the mean fellas at your gym will say you are 10% ,,usually the older ones who been training few losers for locals and considered local town guro ,,they will shout oh boy you are 10% some of them will say 15% but they are just nut cases,,
now the professional ones like gh15 will look at you ,,be silent for few moments,,ask you to do few movments,,all with shirt on ,,then ask to look at your back and abdominal and tell you your bf% which will be accurate ,,they will look for density and skin apperance that will determine for them your water weight ,,then will tell you bf% which will as said be closer to truth ,,it will usually be 2-3 % less than what local gym guro tell you
so 10% will be 7-8% with a professional looking at you since professional can distinguish between water weight and fat ,,most local guros can not
gh15 approved
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naturally you can step on stage 165-170 5-6% somewhere there close to 6% ,,from the front you will look 5% but moment you turn around youll look at lower back at think 6.5 % which will put you around 6% give or take
5'10-5'11 165-170lb on stage at 6% is great for true natural,,especially if he is symetric and balanced
gh15 approved
gh is right...i think is pent 3 years in that point..i ate more, got more fat, was around 200...dieted down, went to 170-175, looked great without clothes, like a fucking twink with clothes on...my goal was always to get to ripped 200, at least 190...then start juicing, little did i know...thank god i red the bible and found my "faith"... ;)
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Thanks God, another pretty wise fella named JM Blakely also said something very similar, he said 165 sub-6 for a true natural is something to write home about.
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And Mr Nobody, in my own personal experience it's not much work staying sub-8, but it IS some work to get to sub-8. So, getting there is kinda hard, but staying there is rather easy ma man 8)
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anorexic eating=epic leans
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Bullshit Falcon! Just coz you couldn't do it, doesn't mean that others can't. After I hit sub-6 I was able to eat a Wendy's triple cheeseburger and wash it down with a large Dr. Pepper while rather easily maintaining sub-6 bro
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I prefer staying lean with veins popping everywhere
I don't see the point in filling out a shirt if you look like shit when you take it off
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I kind of agree with you my gains after 28 were really small I got better but I didn't get much bigger.
I am the opposite. I have gone much bigger and better after my mid twenties.
Much more quality and it comes easier with the foundations already set.
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Just train and enjoy your life dude
it's what I do
I have put on very good size training for years naturally
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agree most of us dont archieve a perfect body, so what, its what it is. i stand out of most guys. thats good enough for me.
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if you are anything over 28 you are wasting your time with natural training ,,better go play in the sand insted ,,or help the poor,,natural trainign is mainly for ages 16-22 ,,usually at 20-21 most americanos turn into aas and then later on if competing go gh,,thats the honest truth friends,,the sad truth is the level of abuse that going on at ages 24+ today ,,they realy really order 10 kits of gh ,,not 1-2 10! that is right there 1000 iu gh at age 25 ,,think about it ,,on 2 kits of gh you usually turn into a bodybuilder,,you become some what of mutant if aas is in ,,on 10 kits...you got that right ...you become kukli and can place 10th on a national show year after year well in his case he is young may get somwehre,,but tropopin is good example of wasting time lol
you get the idea..
gh15 approved
you really are a waste of space and so used to steroids that you have no perspective.
i met up with a buddy of mine last week, who i havent seen for 20 years.
he's now been training, completely naturally, for 36 years.
He is 52.
He is built like a tank. big traps, big delts, forearms, pecs...and he's 52!!!
he benches just under 400 and squats that for reps.
probably the best physique ive seen in real life for a 50+ year old.
NEVER touched a single hormone. Won State titles when he was a teen and in his early twenties..against druggies.
he has 2 brothers who are the same...they are in their mid 40s and looking great- running fitness businesses and still training.
Ive said it over and over again- you train consistent enough and for long enough and you come up looking thick and better than any flash in the pan gear head who wants to get a quick fix and immediate satisfaction of growing.
even if your gains are 2 lbs per year, thats 40lbs over 20years. youll grow more than that for the first few years and while young of course.
gh15 you are so brain washed its sad.
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You are a fucking retard.
x2. yes gh15 is.
tip to gh15- just post what youve seen done...dont try to make comments or construct conversation. your grasp on reality is minimal.
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Just train and enjoy your life dude
it's what I do
I have put on very good size training for years naturally
x2. bingo.
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you really are a waste of space and so used to steroids that you have no perspective.
i met up with a buddy of mine last week, who i havent seen for 20 years.
he's now been training, completely naturally, for 36 years.
He is 52.
He is built like a tank. big traps, big delts, forearms, pecs...and he's 52!!!
he benches just under 400 and squats that for reps.
probably the best physique ive seen in real life for a 50+ year old.
NEVER touched a single hormone. Won State titles when he was a teen and in his early twenties..against druggies.
he has 2 brothers who are the same...they are in their mid 40s and looking great- running fitness businesses and still training.
Ive said it over and over again- you train consistent enough and for long enough and you come up looking thick and better than any flash in the pan gear head who wants to get a quick fix and immediate satisfaction of growing.
even if your gains are 2 lbs per year, thats 40lbs over 20years. youll grow more than that for the first few years and while young of course.
gh15 you are so brain washed its sad.
How do his balls smell?
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you really are a waste of space and so used to steroids that you have no perspective.
i met up with a buddy of mine last week, who i havent seen for 20 years.
he's now been training, completely naturally, for 36 years.
He is 52.
He is built like a tank. big traps, big delts, forearms, pecs...and he's 52!!!
he benches just under 400 and squats that for reps.
probably the best physique ive seen in real life for a 50+ year old.
NEVER touched a single hormone. Won State titles when he was a teen and in his early twenties..against druggies.
he has 2 brothers who are the same...they are in their mid 40s and looking great- running fitness businesses and still training.
Ive said it over and over again- you train consistent enough and for long enough and you come up looking thick and better than any flash in the pan gear head who wants to get a quick fix and immediate satisfaction of growing.
even if your gains are 2 lbs per year, thats 40lbs over 20years. youll grow more than that for the first few years and while young of course.
gh15 you are so brain washed its sad.
You have not seen him for 20 years but you know he's drug free ???
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You have not seen him for 20 years but you know he's drug free ???
he could tell from his musky taste.
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you really are a waste of space and so used to steroids that you have no perspective.
i met up with a buddy of mine last week, who i havent seen for 20 years.
he's now been training, completely naturally, for 36 years.
He is 52.
He is built like a tank. big traps, big delts, forearms, pecs...and he's 52!!!
he benches just under 400 and squats that for reps.
probably the best physique ive seen in real life for a 50+ year old.
NEVER touched a single hormone. Won State titles when he was a teen and in his early twenties..against druggies.
he has 2 brothers who are the same...they are in their mid 40s and looking great- running fitness businesses and still training.
Ive said it over and over again- you train consistent enough and for long enough and you come up looking thick and better than any flash in the pan gear head who wants to get a quick fix and immediate satisfaction of growing.
even if your gains are 2 lbs per year, thats 40lbs over 20years. youll grow more than that for the first few years and while young of course.
gh15 you are so brain washed its sad.
first of,,anythign i say is nto up for if or whats,,it is facts there is no debating it ,,now you can discuss it and give your opinion true but ill go here and explain to you something about the world you live in ,,
a 50 year old ,,hell a 35 year old ,,but 50 year old big big time,,is out of any hormone in his body to produce any ANY change to the physiqe not 5 lb a year not 3 lb a year and not 1 lb a year of olean mucle,,they are on constant usage of hgh,,and ofcourse aas on regular basis if training in any activity involving weights ,,this is important to understand
remember i make my living 24 7 bodybuilding that all i do 24 7 get money from people who want to be bodybuilder and people who are bodybuilder and want to advance,,this is how i made 2 castles in europe ,, you dont get it from talkin balonie my friend,,
now and this is important now,,THE LIARS are many ,,that 50 year old LIE TO YOUR FACE,,SAME AS THE GOOD OLE GYM OWWNER THAT SIT AND EAT EVERY 2 HOURS IS DIVORCED 2 TIMES AND KEEP ON SAYING HE USED SUSPSENTION AT 300MG A WEEK BACK IN 1971 GAINED 30LB AND DIDNT TOUCH HORMONES AGAIN ,,SAME AS CROACH FROM THIS BOARD WHO SIT HERE AND HAVE DEEP DEEP PSYCOLOGICAL ISSUES AND TALK ABOUT HOW CLEAN HE IS EVENTHOUGH SPOTTING 205 LB AT 5'6 WITH VISIBLE ABDOMINAL AND HIGH SINGLES TO LOW DOUBLES BF ,,THEY JUST LIE ALL OF THEM LIE TO YOUR FACE,,THEY DO IT FOR MANY REASONS DUE TO INSECURITIES,,DUE TO JOBS,,DUE TO SOCIETY IMPACT AND THINKING ABOUT STEROID USER IN AMERICNAA ,,DUE TO POLICE HARDON FOR HORMONES IN AMERICANA ,,MANY OTHER REASONS,,WITH THE MAIN REASON BEING THEIR SUB AVERAGE RESPOND TO G E A R ,,this is the main problem they just average joe and responded very average to hormones no matter how much or what they took ,,
BUT REST ASSURE MY FRIEND,,THAT BEHIND CLOSE DOORSA IN THEIR LITTLE HOUSE WHEN NO ONE NOTICE ,,THEY SIT,,WELL STAND OR LAY WITH A NEEDLE UP THEIR ASS AND IMMIDITALY UPON WAKING UP A NEEDLE UP THEIR SHOULDER OF AAS AND HGH RESPECTIVLY,,PERIOD!
no one feed me nothing,,im god of this cult,,been god for many years,,and ruling it with iron fist,,its important you understand it
gh15 approved
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You have not seen him for 20 years but you know he's drug free ???
dont pay attention ,,those type of comments here are from isolated individuals who have no clue to whats really going on in bodybuilding and in the cult of performance enhancing drugs in general,,they dont know that an average ,,AVERAGE SOLID SUPPLIER MAKES OVER 20 K EACH AND EVERY MONTH CLEAN CUT TO THE POCKET! among richest men in the world friends and i aint kidding
gh15 approved
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I'm curious disco, wots dis 52 year old fellas stats? Height, weight, % bodyfat?
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gh15, the "185lb @ 8-10% for 5'10 natural limit" you give there imo should be more specific because of what you have stated in your bible in the past.
I have a post saved of your natural limits bible that says there is no debate, no arguing that 175lbs @ 8% for 5'10 natural bodybuilder is the absolute limit.
This recent posting would be adding 10lbs more to the natural limits of the 5'10 frame of human compared to your posts/bible a few months ago.
Maybe "185lb @ nothing less than 10% for 5'10" would you say, or is the natural limit bible now updated if it is 185lb @ 8% for 5'10?
thanks,
I hit 175 natural in this first pic at 5'9" at about 23 years old. The second pic was taken a year later on about 300 mg a week of gear when I competed at 194.. so I gained some muscle. That was the last time I juiced and I weigh a fairly hard 195 now at 48 years old without any HRT or hormones. I wonder sometimes what I would have looked like on a gram of gear mixed in with some GH. I bet I could have gotten fairly big. The bottom line is you can look pretty good on modest amounts of hormones and you can stay healthy if you're smart about it. Of course you won't look like a modern day pro...but I am surprised at how many guys are tons of stuff and when they post their pics, they don't look very impressive. Is that bad genetics or bunk juice?
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So many people are so negative about training.
This is either down to poor genetics or poor trianing and diet.
This is not a lifestyle. train enjoy it and have fun. Once training stops becoming fun or rewarding its time to stop and choose a different hobby.
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.but I am surprised at how many guys are tons of stuff and when they post their pics, they don't look very impressive. Is that bad genetics or bunk juice?
Damn dude, stop singling out Tbombz..He's been on 1.5 grams for three years non stop and looks worse than most natural lifters... :o
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I hit 175 natural in this first pic at 5'9" at about 23 years old. The second pic was taken a year later on about 300 mg a week of gear when I competed at 194.. so I gained some muscle. That was the last time I juiced and I weigh a fairly hard 195 now at 48 years old without any HRT or hormones. I wonder sometimes what I would have looked like on a gram of gear mixed in with some GH. I bet I could have gotten fairly big. The bottom line is you can look pretty good on modest amounts of hormones and you can stay healthy if you're smart about it. Of course you won't look like a modern day pro...but I am surprised at how many guys are tons of stuff and when they post their pics, they don't look very impressive. Is that bad genetics or bunk juice?
Now that shows what you can do when you have a decent natural base and you then do a bit of juice and you just blow up. I think the juice was better back in your day as well. In the 80's, I grew off of 200 mg of test and 300 mg of deca a week. I was a hard 215 at 5'10" with good abs. By the way, your legs really improved in one year and you look so much thicker. Dude, you ought to go some test now that you're 48. If you look good now, imagine what 200 mg of test and a few IU's of growth would do for you. You only live once Bro. ;)
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I hit 175 natural in this first pic at 5'9" at about 23 years old. The second pic was taken a year later on about 300 mg a week of gear when I competed at 194.. so I gained some muscle. That was the last time I juiced and I weigh a fairly hard 195 now at 48 years old without any HRT or hormones. I wonder sometimes what I would have looked like on a gram of gear mixed in with some GH. I bet I could have gotten fairly big. The bottom line is you can look pretty good on modest amounts of hormones and you can stay healthy if you're smart about it. Of course you won't look like a modern day pro...but I am surprised at how many guys are tons of stuff and when they post their pics, they don't look very impressive. Is that bad genetics or bunk juice?
exactly - you don't have to be the next Kai Greene
nothing wrong with going for the classic look
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I hit 175 natural in this first pic at 5'9" at about 23 years old. The second pic was taken a year later on about 300 mg a week of gear when I competed at 194.. so I gained some muscle. That was the last time I juiced and I weigh a fairly hard 195 now at 48 years old without any HRT or hormones. I wonder sometimes what I would have looked like on a gram of gear mixed in with some GH. I bet I could have gotten fairly big. The bottom line is you can look pretty good on modest amounts of hormones and you can stay healthy if you're smart about it. Of course you won't look like a modern day pro...but I am surprised at how many guys are tons of stuff and when they post their pics, they don't look very impressive. Is that bad genetics or bunk juice?
Looking great in both pics, but be prepared for gh15 to call you a liar, in caps locks no less :o
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Great physique Chemist.
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Great physique Chemist.
Thanks.....Glory days. lol
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Thanks.....Glory days. lol
Great physique Chemist .
Is Mike Dusa still alive?
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Great physique Chemist .
Is Mike Dusa still alive?
I don't know. Haven't heard from him in a while. I hope he managed to heal that MRSA on his arm. That looked pretty serious.
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Looking great in both pics, but be prepared for gh15 to call you a liar, in caps locks no less :o
Of course he will..but to be honest I was bigger as a Nattie than Chemist was in his 175 pound pic...so it seems believable to me. That 170 pound natural limit Gh15 goes on about is a bunch of crap.
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Of course he will..but to be honest I was bigger as a Nattie than Chemist was in his 175 pound pic...so it seems believable to me. That 170 pound natural limit Gh15 goes on about is a bunch of crap.
Pics or it didn't happen. :D
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Pics or it didn't happen. :D
naturals are extremely delusional about how muscular they appear to other people..
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naturals are extremely delusional about how muscular they appear to other people..
Yeah..well feel free to post a pic where you look half as good as him..juiced or nattie...Someone who takes as much shit as you have over the years and still looks like you is the definition of delusional.
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naturals are extremely delusional about how muscular they appear to other people..
So are you
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Pics or it didn't happen. :D
First, you looked great.
Second: Big muscular naturals are like fucking Nessie or Aliens, everybody knows someone who knows someone that was MUCH bigger than YOU on roids, and sometimes you even meet someone who got abducted, but he never has taken photos despite being the best natural bodybuilder of his times.
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;D LOL im only honest with myself about my size here on getbig, in real life i feel average at best. if either of you can post a picture of yourself where you have more muscle than i do, go ahead. ill delete my account.
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;D LOL im only honest with myself about my size here on getbig, in real life i feel average at best. if either of you can post a picture of yourself where you have more muscle than i do, go ahead. ill delete my account.
You go first , full body clear picture .
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First, you looked great.
Second: Big muscular naturals are like fucking Nessie or Aliens, everybody knows someone who knows someone that was MUCH bigger than YOU on roids, and sometimes you even meet someone who got abducted, but he never has taken photos despite being the best natural bodybuilder of his times.
What counts as a 'big muscular natural'
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;D LOL im only honest with myself about my size here on getbig, in real life i feel average at best. if either of you can post a picture of yourself where you have more muscle than i do, go ahead. ill delete my account.
I would love to post my pic on here and humiliate you..and the only reason I don't is because I'm a high profile guy and I don't want my identity known...but if by "either of you"..you're including Chemist..please post a shot where you beat this..include your Legs (and your pathetic calves)..and hit the lat spread. If you beat this, then you have all my props.. And Chemist..sorry if I'm embarassing you..but this guy is the Ultimate Delusionite.
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I would love to post my pic on here and humiliate you..and the only reason I don't is because I'm a high profile guy and I don't want my identity known...but if by "either of you"..you're including Chemist..please post a shot where you beat this..include your Legs (and your pathetic calves)..and hit the lat spread. If you beat this, then you have all my props.. And Chemist..sorry if I'm embarassing you..but this guy is the Ultimate Delusionite.
i meant you or che :)
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What counts as a 'big muscular natural'
What did we say in this thread?
5'10", 185lbs, -8% bf?
Won't happen. You can have naturals over 12% that look big in clothes but shitty without, or ripped and small, but big and ripped just won't happen.
Now if i remember this correctly, you're big, but rather on the fat side. If you would be in contest shape, you'd be a lot smaller or you are lying and you take steroids. ;)
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I hit 175 natural in this first pic at 5'9" at about 23 years old. The second pic was taken a year later on about 300 mg a week of gear when I competed at 194.. so I gained some muscle. That was the last time I juiced and I weigh a fairly hard 195 now at 48 years old without any HRT or hormones. I wonder sometimes what I would have looked like on a gram of gear mixed in with some GH. I bet I could have gotten fairly big. The bottom line is you can look pretty good on modest amounts of hormones and you can stay healthy if you're smart about it. Of course you won't look like a modern day pro...but I am surprised at how many guys are tons of stuff and when they post their pics, they don't look very impressive. Is that bad genetics or bunk juice?
Epic oil in your arm in that second shot ;D
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What did we say in this thread?
5'10", 185lbs, -8% bf?
Won't happen. You can have naturals over 12% that look big in clothes but shitty without, or ripped and small, but big and ripped just won't happen.
Now if i remember this correctly, you're big, but rather on the fat side. If you would be in contest shape, you'd be a lot smaller or you are lying and you take steroids. ;)
254-6lbs with abs. Not totally clear abs but abs.
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i meant you or che :)
Haha delete your account
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6493/taynewpic.jpg)
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Lats: Winner che,
Chest: Winner Che,
Bi: Winner Che
Tri: -5 points for site injections (tbomz) Winner Che
Cranium, Dome piece, etc. winner: Tdizzle
Jaw size: Winner Tbombz
Forearms: Winner Che
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Lats, Winner che,
Chest, Winner Che,
Bi, Winner Che
Tri's -5 points for site injections (tbomz) Winner Che
Cranium, Dome piece, etc. winner: Tdizzle
Jaw: Tbombz
LOL
Sick triceps on Che
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LOL
Sick triceps on Che
Only thing i'm wonder if it's esciline or synthol...If i was tdizzle i would be worried injecting to an area with such few muscle fibers.
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I hit 175 natural in this first pic at 5'9" at about 23 years old. The second pic was taken a year later on about 300 mg a week of gear when I competed at 194.. so I gained some muscle. That was the last time I juiced and I weigh a fairly hard 195 now at 48 years old without any HRT or hormones. I wonder sometimes what I would have looked like on a gram of gear mixed in with some GH. I bet I could have gotten fairly big. The bottom line is you can look pretty good on modest amounts of hormones and you can stay healthy if you're smart about it. Of course you won't look like a modern day pro...but I am surprised at how many guys are tons of stuff and when they post their pics, they don't look very impressive. Is that bad genetics or bunk juice?
thats more than 300mg of gear,,its gym rat doses 400-500mg testosterona ,,eq or nandrolone 50mg a day which make it 400mg a week or about,, and good oral,, this is not only 300mg of inject test,,BALONIE,,
now,,its semi easy to try to mislead my pupils ,,some of them ,,most of them knwo whats up,,but to lie and to mention gh15 in the lie,,,not good,, now indeed this is NO HGH ,,it is one dimentional physiqe that is lean but lackin volume so true you were not on hgh ,,but rest asure you are a roid head over there like there is no tomottow,,begginer roided first pic ....advanced roided second pic,,
fellas ,,stop ,,think,,do,, no need to come on getbig and say stories from 1935 ,,this is THE BOARD FOR HORMONE KNOWLEDGE HANDS ON ,,you cant lie to them anymore,,they been gh15nd
gh15 approved
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IF you been around long enough in this sport you would know that 200mg of American phara Test = about 400mg of todays shit and 100mg of Deca is now like 300mg now. The drugs in the 80's where pure and legit, not like the stuff the dealers sell now adays. gh you know that is how you guys make big bucks now a days, weaker product= more dosage=more$$$. Another example Anavar use to come in 2.5mg per pill and if you took a couple a day you would get harder and stronger. Guys at my gym tell me they have 25 and 50mg Anavar pills and have to use a couple a day, weak or fake shit.
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IF you been around long enough in this sport you would know that 200mg of American phara Test = about 400mg of todays shit and 100mg of Deca is now like 300mg now. The drugs in the 80's where pure and legit, not like the stuff the dealers sell now adays. gh you know that is how you guys make big bucks now a days, weaker product= more dosage=more$$$. Another example Anavar use to come in 2.5mg per pill and if you took a couple a day you would get harder and stronger. Guys at my gym tell me they have 25 and 50mg Anavar pills and have to use a couple a day, weak or fake shit.
no,,personal cook dose product higher than human grade,,depend who your personal cook is ,,ofcoure human grade done more sterile ,,but potency when personal cook actually put legit powder in at higer dose,,same exact thing if not better,,it all depend on personal cook is,,
but this fella in picture did nto do it on no hrt dose,,it is more,,its not much more but it is base gym rat cycle at young young age with still ok natural gh levels,,so he look good but no 300mg nothing,,its total of about 750-1000mg in blood total hormone,,good but! not good enough
gh15 approved
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First off, most of you guys are fucking clueless on what is true sub-6, secondly there is a HUGE difference btw a true 8% compared to a true 6%. On getbig fellas say they are ripped (sub-6) when in fact they are sitting at bout 10% BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Haha delete your account
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6493/taynewpic.jpg)
You called out the wrong guy Taylor!! :)
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you really are a waste of space and so used to steroids that you have no perspective.
i met up with a buddy of mine last week, who i havent seen for 20 years.
he's now been training, completely naturally, for 36 years.
He is 52.
He is built like a tank. big traps, big delts, forearms, pecs...and he's 52!!!
he benches just under 400 and squats that for reps.
probably the best physique ive seen in real life for a 50+ year old.
NEVER touched a single hormone. Won State titles when he was a teen and in his early twenties..against druggies.
he has 2 brothers who are the same...they are in their mid 40s and looking great- running fitness businesses and still training.
Ive said it over and over again- you train consistent enough and for long enough and you come up looking thick and better than any flash in the pan gear head who wants to get a quick fix and immediate satisfaction of growing.
even if your gains are 2 lbs per year, thats 40lbs over 20years. youll grow more than that for the first few years and while young of course.
gh15 you are so brain washed its sad.
ha ha.... dont think i can even be botherd to start with this statement!
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IF you been around long enough in this sport you would know that 200mg of American phara Test = about 400mg of todays shit and 100mg of Deca is now like 300mg now. The drugs in the 80's where pure and legit, not like the stuff the dealers sell now adays. gh you know that is how you guys make big bucks now a days, weaker product= more dosage=more$$$. Another example Anavar use to come in 2.5mg per pill and if you took a couple a day you would get harder and stronger. Guys at my gym tell me they have 25 and 50mg Anavar pills and have to use a couple a day, weak or fake shit.
Exactly.
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ha ha.... dont think i can even be botherd to start with this statement!
Haha Disco_stu's posts remind me of a bitter old man whos wife cheated on him with a juicer. Hahahaha.
GH15>Disco_stu
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IF you been around long enough in this sport you would know that 200mg of American phara Test = about 400mg of todays shit and 100mg of Deca is now like 300mg now. The drugs in the 80's where pure and legit, not like the stuff the dealers sell now adays. gh you know that is how you guys make big bucks now a days, weaker product= more dosage=more$$$. Another example Anavar use to come in 2.5mg per pill and if you took a couple a day you would get harder and stronger. Guys at my gym tell me they have 25 and 50mg Anavar pills and have to use a couple a day, weak or fake shit.
does this apply to supps like celltech as well? is a dose of celltech less potent now then the days of yesteryear?
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Maybe so tom, creatine monohydrate from sportpharma was da shit back in da day! lol
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Assuming your training and dieting is fairly reasonable, it all boils down to your genetics. And the responses will run the whole gamut, from the few on either extreme (very poor and very good) to the majority, who'd get an average response.
Everyone responds well in the beginning because of the novelty factor, but very few people are patient enough to keep going naturally, year after year, since the increase in strength and size will decrease significantly. But IMO, people underestimate what is possible to achieve naturally - you won't look anything like a pro, but you can still improve and get in great shape over time, if you train properly and do all the needed stuff (nutrition, rest etc).
Very well states, just remember to stay focused to get past the plateaus. Its easy to keep working out when you body changes rapidly in the beginning. As times moves on it is truly the dedicated that stay with it and persevere.
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does this apply to supps like celltech as well? is a dose of celltech less potent now then the days of yesteryear?
Back in the day the celltech nitrotech stack would yield 4000-5000% gains but today's users have to settle for 3000% improvements
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Back in the day the celltech nitrotech stack would yield 4000-5000% gains but today's users have to settle for 3000% improvements
Hahaha.
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i think we should as a collective have tdongz delete his account now.
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GH15 is so much more right than wrong.
Look up Dr. Greg Ellis, the nutrition guru. I met this man and conversed with him on a few occasions. He stated unequivocally that a natural trainee would be lucky to gain a total of 15 lbs. of pure muscle over the lifetime of training!!!
How discouraged I was when I had to come to grips with the fact that I was adding a lot of water, fat, and a little bit of muscle with all of my training.
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When I was 18, I weighed all of a buck 30 at 5'11" and my peak lean weight was 154. At 154 I was a legit sub-6, so that meant that I was carrying roughly 145 lean pounds, and at 130 I'm certain I was sub-6 also, since I ran track and cross-country. So at 130 sub-6 I had roughly 122 lean pounds, so that difference right there is a pure 23 lean pound gain.
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DJ, you may have not been fully matured by 18.
This is quite possible.
For instance, my real starting weight for serious weight/strength training is suspect because I was a starved tennis player. I was 6'1" and 156-159 pounds at approximately 12%. I got up to 193 at 12% with constant eating, no cardio and a perfect environment for training: college. I ate, slept, ate some more, hooked up with my girfriend, drank Myoplex like it was going out of style, slept some more, etc.
However, I didn't party with my friends, didn't stay out too late, didn't miss a meal, etc.
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GH15 is so much more right than wrong.
Look up Dr. Greg Ellis, the nutrition guru. I met this man and conversed with him on a few occasions. He stated unequivocally that a natural trainee would be lucky to gain a total of 15 lbs. of pure muscle over the lifetime of training!!!
How discouraged I was when I had to come to grips with the fact that I was adding a lot of water, fat, and a little bit of muscle with all of my training.
That is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. I went from a smooth 150 pounds to a very lean 185 from when I was 22 till 25 with no steroids. How absurd. Look at the gains made by guys like Bill Pearl.. before he ever tried juice . I feel really sorry for people who believe such nonsense. This Ellis guy is a guru? LMAO!
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When I was 18, I weighed all of a buck 30 at 5'11" and my peak lean weight was 154. At 154 I was a legit sub-6, so that meant that I was carrying roughly 145 lean pounds, and at 130 I'm certain I was sub-6 also, since I ran track and cross-country. So at 130 sub-6 I had roughly 122 lean pounds, so that difference right there is a pure 23 lean pound gain.
at 18 you were not fully developed. a lot of that muscle gain would have occurred naturally over the next 10 years without any weights.
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That is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. I went from a smooth 150 pounds to a very lean 185 from when I was 22 till 25 with no steroids. How absurd. Look at the gains made by guys like Bill Pearl.. before he ever tried juice . I feel really sorry for people who believe such nonsense. This Ellis guy is a guru? LMAO!
LoR, obviously, I had gained a total of 40+ pounds at that point, and was told I was above average.
He did say "the average trainee".
I could care less, as I still train hard, am over 200 pounds, look decent, but need to lose some fat, as I am sitting at about 15-16%.
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Allright, fair enough. So at 23 I was 143 and sub-7, so that would put me at roughly 133 lean pounds, so that would be equal to a 12 lean pound gain, instead of a 23 lean pound gain. Would 23 years old be considered mature enough?
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I think so.
I was 21 when I started what I considered training for size, rather than for strength/function for pure sport (tennis).
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Allright, fair enough. So at 23 I was 143 and sub-7, so that would put me at roughly 133 lean pounds, so that would be equal to a 12 lean pound gain, instead of a 23 lean pound gain. Would 23 years old be considered mature enough?
actually I read that muscle mass peaks at around 40 for men.
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(http://www.nrc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/zuidkorea2.jpg)
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ZCiym632KXZTMM:http://i42.tinypic.com/21bjifl.jpg&t=1)
(http://thenategreenexperience.com/img/userPics/1236040375_39857.jpg)
As far as I know, these guys are natural, and they look good. They don't look like bodybuilders, but they've got the sort of physique that I'm shooting for after I finally realized how delusional I've been for the past 7+ years.
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does this apply to supps like celltech as well? is a dose of celltech less potent now then the days of yesteryear?
Nobody hardly took shit like that back then. Now a days the mag are just filled with crazy ads.
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Nobody hardly took shit like that back then. Now a days the mag are just filled with crazy ads.
I agree, and when you look at companies like Muscletech all they do is fill there mag with ads with a bunch of BS scientific jargon
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Hard and consistant training>>>>>>>>ANY and ALL "supps" FVCK DAT NOISE!