Regarding training naturally

[dj181]

Should growth be quickly apparent as a result of proper training? And if it's not quickly apparent does this mean that there is something wrong with one's training? Vanbilderass said something very interesting regarding this topic, so it inspired me to ask these questions. P.S. I asked these questions from a natural trainers perspective, coz I am a natural trainer, and therefore am thinking from a natural trainers perspective. 

[Nirvana]

first off your gonna have to tell us, do you train naturally?

[dj181]

Yeah man, I said that I train naturally. And I asked this question coz I ALWAYS grew in spurts whenever I grew.

[Marty Champions]

dj are you serious about your goals enough to work on them immediatley?

[dj181]

You don't even need to ask me that question Falcon, coz I'm literally obsessed with it man

[Ex Coelis]

if you insist on training naturally, be realistic about your goals

trying to get as large as possible will leave you fat and out of shape

you're best served eating right, doing plenty of cardio, and incorporating weights as part of a healthy lifestyle - as it was intended

[kiwiol]

Assuming your training and dieting is fairly reasonable, it all boils down to your genetics. And the responses will run the whole gamut, from the few on either extreme (very poor and very good) to the majority, who'd get an average response.

Everyone responds well in the beginning because of the novelty factor, but very few people are patient enough to keep going naturally, year after year, since the increase in strength and size will decrease significantly. But IMO, people underestimate what is possible to achieve naturally - you won't look anything like a pro, but you can still improve and get in great shape over time, if you train properly and do all the needed stuff (nutrition, rest etc).

[che]

Assuming your training and dieting is fairly reasonable, it all boils down to your genetics. And the responses will run the whole gamut, from the few on either extreme (very poor and very good) to the majority, who'd get an average response.

Everyone responds well in the beginning because of the novelty factor, but very few people are patient enough to keep going naturally, year after year, since the increase in strength and size will decrease significantly. But IMO, people underestimate what is possible to achieve naturally - you won't look anything like a pro, but you can still improve and get in great shape over time, if you train properly and do all the needed stuff (nutrition, rest etc).

CHE approved

[dj181]

I think that you fellas are reading me wrong. I'm not asking for training advice, what I am asking is: SHOULD MUSCLE GROWTH COME VERY QUICKLY AND NEARLY RIGHT AWAY IF ONE IS USING THE CORRECT TRAINING PROTOCOL?

[gh15]

if you insist on training naturally, be realistic about your goals

trying to get as large as possible will leave you fat and out of shape

you're best served eating right, doing plenty of cardio, and incorporating weights as part of a healthy lifestyle - as it was intended

this is a drugged up athlete since in those days we wee still considered athletes,,but its a drugged up one,,not mega anything but drugged up,,i do nto consider what he did drug usage since testosterona is natural to body but you get the idea...

gh15 approved

[Ex Coelis]

I think that you fellas are reading me wrong. I'm not asking for training advice, what I am asking is: SHOULD MUSCLE GROWTH COME VERY QUICKLY AND NEARLY RIGHT AWAY IF ONE IS USING THE CORRECT TRAINING PROTOCOL?

ultimately, the more you put into natural training the less of a life you live

[el numero uno]

Yeah man, I said that I train naturally. And I asked this question coz I ALWAYS grew in spurts whenever I grew.

X2

[Reeves]

if you insist on training naturally, be realistic about your goals

trying to get as large as possible will leave you fat and out of shape

you're best served eating right, doing plenty of cardio, and incorporating weights as part of a healthy lifestyle - as it was intended

He is right.  I wish I could look like this, but I'm too short, too fat, too fugly and anything else that comes to mind.  Something to shoot for, I suppose.  I just borrowed a book from a friend called "Dinosaur Training".  Seems to make sense so far. I've found over the long, long years that while there may be no one right way for everyone to train, there's plenty of wrong ones for each of us.  Find what works best for you and then go for it.  I try to vary the theme, always staying within the framework that has given me the most for my time and effort.

I'll never look as good as Steve, but then no one has nor will.  Training is worth the effort.

[gh15]

..."Just the first question alone could be debated for weeks.

How big can you get, or someone else with different genetics, different level of dedication/work ethic, access to proper information, quantity and quality of food, etc? Person A might be able to get much, much larger than person B without steroids. Some people with really great genetics can get much bigger WITHOUT ever touching a steroid than another person with crappy genetics can get WITH tons and tons of drugs. Seen it happen many times, actually."


the above statement is the reason why BODYBUILDING IS SHIT ,,THE REASON WHY BODYBUILDING IS NEVER GETTIGN ANYWHERE,,THE REASON WHY THE LIES ARE KILLING THIS CULT,,

i was sent this quote ,,i didnt want to make big deal out of it in major postings i actually like to ignroe balonie such as this that i get daily,,but i show it here for a reason ,,this is why bodybuilders are considered stupid by public,,considerd slow ,,,considered goolible and rec users by public,,this exact qupte above

the fella who wrote it go by name of ron herris,,he maybe the most stupid person bodybuilding has ever seen ,,he is really really poision in the young brains of up and comers and all bodybuilding rats,,he is really is twisting every little piece of truth and kill the cult into an isolated wacked up society,,this is very bad and very wrong,,

maybe the worst person on bodybuilding information edge ever,,since he condiered writer,,he is also making money from gaspari nutrition which is a red alert to all of you ,,should be very concerning

gh15 approved

[kiwiol]

I think that you fellas are reading me wrong. I'm not asking for training advice, what I am asking is: SHOULD MUSCLE GROWTH COME VERY QUICKLY AND NEARLY RIGHT AWAY IF ONE IS USING THE CORRECT TRAINING PROTOCOL?

I did answer it - it will come quickly in the beginning, but if you are training naturally, the gains will slow down big time after the initial spurt. Even if you have great genetics, you will still have to fight tooth and nail to improve. And you should enjoy the lifting and look at the big picture - how your size and strength has progressed over say, 3/6 months - year, rather than jump on the scale or bring out the tape measure after every workout.

CHE approved

 

[Mr Nobody]

Assuming your training and dieting is fairly reasonable, it all boils down to your genetics. And the responses will run the whole gamut, from the few on either extreme (very poor and very good) to the majority, who'd get an average response.

Everyone responds well in the beginning because of the novelty factor, but very few people are patient enough to keep going naturally, year after year, since the increase in strength and size will decrease significantly. But IMO, people underestimate what is possible to achieve naturally - you won't look anything like a pro, but you can still improve and get in great shape over time, if you train properly and do all the needed stuff (nutrition, rest etc).

X2 On the money right there.

[xboxaddict]

ultimately, the more you put into natural training the less of a life you live

That's the biggest downside to natural BB.

You do it "right", you can look "impressive" to the normal person, but still look pretty far away from a bodybuilder. You will never get that fullness without steroids.

Doing it right means having your diet in check all year, never missing a training, always training hard (not necessarily heavy).

It's frustrating when you have a demanding job, and/or a family, then it's almost impossible to get it all together. The family wants to eat in a good restaurant at times, and you spoiul all the fun when you sit there with a sour face or eat your chicken and broccoli from a tupper ware in a restaurant.
Business partners expect you to drink and eat and be funny until 5 in the morning when you have done a contract here where i live, that fucks up your training and diet for a few days.

When you're natural, it gets impossible to progress further if you don't dedicate your whole life to it.

But to answer the initial question from my point of view: With natural training, gains have never been immediate. Growth spurs happen, but i almost don't realize them because i need a high calorie diet and put on fat as well as muscle, after cutting, i can see how much success i really had. When truly natural, you can be really happy with a muscle gain of 10 lbs per year in the beginning, in later years you will probably not be able to put on more than 5lbs per year, but you will have to put on the same amount of fat to do that, lol.

Create a good natural base for as long as you can take the frustration, and then hit the sauce very slowly, low doses first, and try to keep the dosages low, this is the best approach if you don't plan to become a pro, IMO.

[dj181]

I hear ya kiwi, but vanbilderass made a very insightful comment about gains coming pratically overnight, and I wholeheartly agree with this, since my natural muscle growth ALWAYS occured in spurts. And I remember reading Mike Mentzer saying the same thing. P.S. My fastest growth didn't happen until I was in my mid 20s, which was after over 10 years of fairly regular training.

[Leatherneck]

GH15- Do you believe that Ron Harris still uses?

[Heavy_Hitter]

Natural- Depends how your body responds to training, food, and legal supplements.


Enhanced- Depends how your body responds to the above, plus hormones. Some pros never looked bigger than your average gym rat training natural. They just responded very well to anabolics. So sometimes genetic response to anabolics can over rule response to training and diet, too.

[gh15]

That's the biggest downside to natural BB.

You do it "right", you can look "impressive" to the normal person, but still look pretty far away from a bodybuilder. You will never get that fullness without steroids.

Doing it right means having your diet in check all year, never missing a training, always training hard (not necessarily heavy).

It's frustrating when you have a demanding job, and/or a family, then it's almost impossible to get it all together. The family wants to eat in a good restaurant at times, and you spoiul all the fun when you sit there with a sour face or eat your chicken and broccoli from a tupper ware in a restaurant.
Business partners expect you to drink and eat and be funny until 5 in the morning when you have done a contract here where i live, that fucks up your training and diet for a few days.

When you're natural, it gets impossible to progress further if you don't dedicate your whole life to it.

But to answer the initial question from my point of view: With natural training, gains have never been immediate. Growth spurs happen, but i almost don't realize them because i need a high calorie diet and put on fat as well as muscle, after cutting, i can see how much success i really had. When truly natural, you can be really happy with a muscle gain of 10 lbs per year in the beginning, in later years you will probably not be able to put on more than 5lbs per year, but you will have to put on the same amount of fat to do that, lol.

Create a good natural base for as long as you can take the frustration, and then hit the sauce very slowly, low doses first, and try to keep the dosages low, this is the best approach if you don't plan to become a pro, IMO.

if you are anything over 28 you are wasting your time with natural training ,,better go play in the sand insted ,,or help the poor,,natural trainign is mainly for ages 16-22 ,,usually at 20-21 most americanos turn into aas and then later on if competing go gh,,thats the honest truth friends,,the sad truth is the level of abuse that going on at ages 24+ today ,,they realy really order 10 kits of gh ,,not 1-2 10! that is right there 1000 iu gh at age 25 ,,think about it ,,on  2 kits of gh you usually turn into a bodybuilder,,you become some what of mutant if aas is in ,,on 10 kits...you got that right ...you become kukli and can place 10th on a national show year after year well in his case he is young may get somwehre,,but tropopin is good example of wasting time lol

you get the idea..

gh15 approved

[kiwiol]

ultimately, the more you put into natural training the less of a life you live

Not necessarily true, unless you make it to be. I made my best gains while having 100+ hour weeks - working a full-time job as well as a part-time job in the weekends on top of studying full-time. I still managed to go out and have fun once or twice a month, which is about as much as I want to anyway.

It's always the hard gainers who make a big deal about everything and waste too much time and money on things like training routines and supplements, from what I've seen. The big guys with good or great genetics who know how to train, hit the gym hard when they do, and then get on with their life when they're done.

The guys weighing 140lb are the ones who go home, read a ton of useless stuff, argue about it endlessly and spend money on crap supplements they don't need, on top of doing things like choking down on rice and chicken every 3 hours. And they still look bad years later, lol. Funny how that works.

[che]

if you are anything over 28 you are wasting your time with natural training ,

Are you talking about competing ?

[Heavy_Hitter]

Not necessarily true, unless you make it to be. I made my best gains while have 100+ hour weeks - working a full-time job as well as a part-time job in the weekends on top of studying full-time. I still managed to go out and have fun once or twice a month, which is about as much as I want to anyway.

It's always the hard gainers who make a big deal about everything and waste too much time and money on things like training routines and supplements, from what I've seen. The big guys with good or great genetics who know how to train hit the gym hard when they do, and then get on with their life when they're done.

The guys weighing 140lb are the ones who go home, read a ton of useless stuff, argue about it endlessly and spend money on crap supplements they don't need, on top of doing things like choking down on rice and chicken every 3 hours. And they still look bad years later, lol. Funny how that works.

 You know why you made your best gains? You went to to the gym, did your thing and got the fuck out because you knew you had to be at work early tomorrow! You probably didn't just sit there and talk, took your little time more seriously. You enjoyed your days off and let your mind and body relax which is a very important factor! The guys who have nothing better to do but hit the gym twice a day, over train, stay up all night because they have no responsibility are the ones who make all the fundamental mistakes and never grow

[xboxaddict]

Not necessarily true, unless you make it to be. I made my best gains while have 100+ hour weeks - working a full-time job as well as a part-time job in the weekends on top of studying full-time. I still managed to go out and have fun once or twice a month, which is about as much as I want to anyway.

It's always the hard gainers who make a big deal about everything and waste too much time and money on things like training routines and supplements, from what I've seen. The big guys with good or great genetics who know how to train hit the gym hard when they do, and then get on with their life when they're done.

The guys weighing 140lb are the ones who go home, read a ton of useless stuff, argue about it endlessly and spend money on crap supplements they don't need, on top of doing things like choking down on rice and chicken every 3 hours. And they still look bad years later, lol. Funny how that works.

Well, depends all a bit on what you consider "big" and what you want to look like.

It's much easier to stay round 8% while keeping your muscles when you have a little chemical help, lol. It's all about convenience.