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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: theonlyone on February 14, 2011, 05:41:55 AM
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More and more American students are facing enormous tuition debt and low job prospects after graduating from college. Some find the solution of finding work abroad, but millions are settling for less.
Is the US raising a generation of janitors with PhDs?
Modern-day post-college survival is no joke.
“I have $76,000 dollars in college debt,” said unemployed college graduate Larry Hales, who has been unsuccessfully looking for work for over a year and a half.
Haunted by tuition debt, Hales is one of America's college degree owners facing a job market that has long ago thrown out the welcome mat.
“Young people have twice the unemployment rate of most Americans,” said filmmaker Danny Schechter.
College grads are stepping out into the world at the worst time to try to land a job – with around 2 million of them unemployed.
The dire market is forcing many to forget their skills and agree to any nearly any job offer.
Over 300,000 waiters and over 18,000 parking lot attendants working in the US are said to have a college degree.
Moreover, the US Bureau of Labor statistics suggests as many as 17 million Americans with college degrees are forced to work jobs requiring fewer skills than a Bachelors degree provides, raising an entire generation of overqualified employees.
“As we have an ever-higher percentage of kids in college, an ever higher percentage of kids graduating at the same time as ever – more companies are hiring fewer people,” said Marty Nemko, an education consultant and career counselor from California.
Inspired by the traditional American promise of a dream life after college, what students aren’t told however, is that the cash and time they are investing is going to come back to bite them.
At 22, Charles holds a Bachelors degree in film and a dream of directing and is already about to settle for less.
“You do wonder sometimes, was college a waste of time, with the economy that we are in,” said the unemployed graduate.
The young man is looking for any available job to pay off his student loan debt, but has not been able to find any paid work.
“I spent probably like $65,000 to seventy thousand on college. And that’s all tuition bills that are going to start coming in soon”, Charles added.
Apart from waving a dream career goodbye, another big trend is debt driving more than career choice, but rather – destinies.
“You want to help poor children as a physician? Good luck with your four hundred thousand dollars in debt! People’s college and university debt is beginning to pick their careers, who they marry, where they live,” said Economist Max Fraad Wolff.
With the economies of other countries beginning to excel again, job hunting abroad is becoming more attractive than in the US.
“A lot of my friends are considering jobs outside of the U.S. – in India. They are considering Argentina, and China,” explained college graduate Tanushree Isaacman.
With $50,000 of college debt Tanushree believes debt walks hand in hand with American culture, it’s simply the cost of living the American life.
“It is education debt, then it’s debt on taking out loans on houses and cars and such, and you live from one debt to another,” the 26-year-old explained.
The US strives to lead the world in the number of college graduates. At the same time, not enough jobs are being created to meet demand as student debt piles up, forcing millions of Americans to settle for less than what they dreamed of.
Lauren Kelley, an associate editor at AlterNet explained Americans simply spend far too much on higher education, forcing many into debt they may never be able to pay off.
That being said, there is no need to discourage people from a college education. People need options.
“We have not invested in any sort of vocational training,” she said. “There should be the option of vocational school.”
In the US there is a tendency to see vocational programs as lesser or inferior. When, in fact, such programs are necessary for a number of sectors of the American economy.
Traditional college and a liberal arts education is not right for everyone, explained Kelley. There needs to be option so people can choose what best fits them.
As student pay for an education they may not want nor need, they enter a world in debt and unable to find work. If given greater options are presented there should be a major shift in the level of debt.
“If they can get a head start now on a career that will actually be beneficial to them, all the better, but it’s just not something we prepare our student for,” explained Kelley.
All students have to make the right choice for them, and need to be given the opportunity to pick from options, she argued.
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I can't believe how many people I know get degrees in useless things in college (theater? womens studies? recreation management??) and then cry and moan about not being able to find a job.. .or making $26K/yr after graduating.
College is a business like any other. They are there to make money, and is some fool will pay $65000 for a film degree, of course the ssystem is going to accomidate them.
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America's colleges must suck. It would explain why all of Russia's best students come here to do their graduate degrees.
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As long as the colleges/universities know that they will be able to keep up enrollment because of federally subsidized loans no matter how high they make tuition.....the cost of college will never, ever come down.
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As long as the colleges/universities know that they will be able to keep up enrollment because of federally subsidized loans no matter how high they make tuition.....the cost of college will never, ever come down.
This. Again, if the feds would stay out of the way, the BUSINESS of college would adjust accordingly.
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As long as the colleges/universities know that they will be able to keep up enrollment because of federally subsidized loans no matter how high they make tuition.....the cost of college will never, ever come down.
Did you ever see my Schiff video on college inflation?
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Another thing that annoys me is the way colleges try to act like they aren't a business.....I had to remind a couple of professors of that. Kinda nice being a bit older after the military and going back to college. I called them out on numerous occasions on bullshit. the kids in the classes loved me.....and most of the profs did too, but some were just career douches that needed a reality check.
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This. Again, if the feds would stay out of the way, the BUSINESS of college would adjust accordingly.
Don`t forget the private loan industry as well. They have been the absolute worst.
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Another thing that annoys me is the way colleges try to act like they aren't a business.....I had to remind a couple of professors of that. Kinda nice being a bit older after the military and going back to college. I called them out on numerous occasions on bullshit. the kids in the classes loved me.....and most of the profs did too, but some were just career douches that needed a reality check.
Exactly. There should not be a profit motive in college which is why I wish their were a separation of sports and athletics from education. Most tuition hikes are a result of an ever growing athletics program. The highest paid faculty members are the red-faced coaches and their staff.
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Don`t forget the private loan industry as well. They have been the absolute worst.
Totally agree. they have abused the system for far too long. I'm thankful I utilized the GI Bill and didn't have to deal with it.
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The other irony here is, the deeper one is in debt with college loans, the likelihood that one will be hired increases. The corporations then have you and love someone demoralized as a result of debt. They know you aren`t going ANYWHERE as you have to pay off your debt which makes you beholden to whatever interest they have in order for you to keep your head just above water.
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I can't believe how many people I know get degrees in useless things in college (theater? womens studies? recreation management??) and then cry and moan about not being able to find a job.. .or making $26K/yr after graduating.
College is a business like any other. They are there to make money, and is some fool will pay $65000 for a film degree, of course the ssystem is going to accomidate them.
yea exactly and they let these people come right into high schools an recruit people into these lousy directions. Parents really need to direct their children; if they leave it up to the school and the crap influence they bring in, your kid might come home demanding he/she get a degree in film or some other arts where they stand a 99.99 percent chance at failure and you end up waisting all your money on. Now if your kid is really, and I mean really talented in that shit, then go for it, but they need to be really fucking talented beyond belief or forget it.
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This. Again, if the feds would stay out of the way, the BUSINESS of college would adjust accordingly.
now you guys are talking Ron Paul ;D
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yea exactly and they let these people come right into high schools an recruit people into these lousy directions. Parents really need to direct their children; if they leave it up to the school and the crap influence they bring in, your kid might come home demanding he/she get a degree in film or some other arts where they stand a 99.99 percent chance at failure and you end up waisting all your money on. Now if your kid is really, and I mean really talented in that shit, then go for it, but they need to be really fucking talented beyond belief or forget it.
How does someone know they are talented if they have never been given a chance to display or learn it?
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The other irony here is, the deeper one is in debt with college loans, the likelihood that one will be hired increases. The corporations then have you and love someone demoralized as a result of debt. They know you aren`t going ANYWHERE as you have to pay off your debt which makes you beholden to whatever interest they have in order for you to keep your head just above water.
Correct again. I worked for Wells Fargo when I first graduated......awful experience and I was so glad that I wasn't buried in debt and could walk away after a year....i just stayed to keep the resume looking decent. But there were 2 or 3 other people in the office who had "bought the dream" and had a car loan, home loan, education loan, etc.... and were stuck.
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yea exactly and they let these people come right into high schools an recruit people into these lousy directions. Parents really need to direct their children; if they leave it up to the school and the crap influence they bring in, your kid might come home demanding he/she get a degree in film or some other arts where they stand a 99.99 percent chance at failure and you end up waisting all your money on. Now if your kid is really, and I mean really talented in that shit, then go for it, but they need to be really fucking talented beyond belief or forget it.
I don't actually agree with this. If someone wants to pursue something, more power to them. China's graduating 3 million engineers a year right now. Do you think there's anywhere near that many engineering jobs out there in China for those students? Not a fucking chance.
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It is even worse for law school grads! Big debts, a degree, and no job. :'(
Is Law School a Losing Game?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?sq=law%20school&st=cse&scp=3&pagewanted=all
Unless you are 1) going to a top ten law school, 2) have someone who will pay your tuition or 3) have a father, uncle, etc, that is a partner in a firm and can literally guarantee you a well paying job upon graduation I would not recommend law school to young people today; the cost is enormous and the prospects are very bleak.
Check out some of the blogs for recent law grads
http://shillingmesoftly.blogspot.com/
http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/
http://rosecoloredglassesjd.blogspot.com/
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/
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yea exactly and they let these people come right into high schools an recruit people into these lousy directions. Parents really need to direct their children; if they leave it up to the school and the crap influence they bring in, your kid might come home demanding he/she get a degree in film or some other arts where they stand a 99.99 percent chance at failure and you end up waisting all your money on. Now if your kid is really, and I mean really talented in that shit, then go for it, but they need to be really fucking talented beyond belief or forget it.
I think it really has more to do with motivation. The people that usually get those "lesser" degrees aren't motivated. I don't think it sheds bad light on the degree itself as much as the unmotivated person getting the degree. Now of course I have no idea what types of job a theater major could get, but that's because I'm not in that department. I think if someone is passionate about what they do, strive to do it to the best of their abilities, then the job offers (and what's more important: the satisfaction of the job) will come.
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It is even worse for law school grads! Big debts, a degree, and no job. :'(
Is Law School a Losing Game?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?sq=law%20school&st=cse&scp=3&pagewanted=all
Unless you are 1) going to a top ten law school, 2) have someone who will pay your tuition or 3) have a father, uncle, etc, that is a partner in a firm and can literally guarantee you a well paying job upon graduation I would not recommend law school to young people today; the cost is enormous and the prospects are very bleak.
Check out some of the blogs for recent law grads
http://shillingmesoftly.blogspot.com/
http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/
http://rosecoloredglassesjd.blogspot.com/
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/
Lawyers who didn`t need Law School at all to be a lawyer. America`s best I`d say.
1. Patrick Henry (1736-1799), member of the Continental Congress, governor of Virginia
2. John Jay (1745-1829), first chief justice of the Supreme Court
3. John Marshall (1755-1835), chief justice of the Supreme Court
4. William Wirt (1772-1834), attorney general
5. Roger B. Taney (1777-1864), secretary of the treasury, chief justice of the Supreme Court
6. Daniel Webster (1782-1852), secretary of state
7. Salmon P. Chase (1808-1873), senator, chief justice of the Supreme Court
8. Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865), president
9. Stephen Douglas (1813-1861), representative, senator from Illinois
10. Clarence Darrow (1857-1938), defense attorney in Scopes trial of 1925. [While Clarence Darrow attended a law school for one year, he did not distinguish himself and preferred to study law on his own. He received the greater part of his education in a law office in Youngstown, Ohio.]
11. Robert Storey (b. 1893), president of the American Bar Association (1952-1953)
12. J. Strom Thurmond (b. 1902), senator, governor of South Carolina
13. James O. Eastland (b. 1904), senator from Mississippi
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Didn't Andrew Jackson teach himself law too, while working at a law firm?
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Didn't Andrew Jackson teach himself law too, while working at a law firm?
Yep,
Meant to add him on the list as well. He was a lawyer in Salisbury, North Carolina.
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How does someone know they are talented if they have never been given a chance to display or learn it?
Don't be fucking stupid. If your kid comes home with cross-eyed drawings of something he copied out of a magazine and wants to get a degree in art, you should probably fucking talk them out of it. If they have been coming home with work that blows your mind and everybody you show it to, then it might be ok. If your kid grew up filming shit all over and making movies and everyone liked it then ok maybe give them a shot but that's going to be a very small portion of the population--safe bet is still against it.
What I'm saying is that the parent really needs to gauge the kids talent and help direct them from there.
Contrary to popular belief, it's actually way easier to become a lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc than it is to become a successful artist, musician or film maker; yet look at how many eagerly enter these fields every year, 99 percent of them doomed lol...
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Don't be fucking stupid. If your kid comes home with cross-eyed drawings of something he copied out of a magazine and wants to get a degree in art, you should probably fucking talk them out of it. If they have been coming home with work that blows your mind and everybody you show it to, then it might be ok. If your kid grew up filming shit all over and making movies and everyone liked it then ok maybe give them a shot but that's going to be a very small portion of the population--safe bet is still against it.
What I'm saying is that the parent really needs to gauge the kids talent and help direct them from there.
Contrary to popular belief, it's actually way easier to become a lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc than it is to become a successful artist, musician or film maker; yet look at how many eagerly enter these fields every year, 99 percent of them doomed lol...
Harrison Ford and Sean Connery and Arnold Schwarzenegger disagree with you.
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I don't actually agree with this. If someone wants to pursue something, more power to them. China's graduating 3 million engineers a year right now. Do you think there's anywhere near that many engineering jobs out there in China for those students? Not a fucking chance.
maybe I worded it wrong or didn't expand enough. I just think the parents should guard against their kids going into areas they have no real talent for but might have gotten inspired toward unwittingly by some of the crap that comes in senior year. Such as these art and film related degrees that I mentioned above. Unless your kid kicks ass in that shit, they're probably going to fail their asses off and you're going to waste your money on it.
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Harrison Ford and Sean Connery and Arnold Schwarzenegger disagree with you.
fucking fantastic for you, you named three successful people... WOW... Now come up with the odds that some kid from Kansas wanting fame will be the next Sean Connery?
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fucking fantastic for you, you named three successful people... WOW... Now come up with the odds that some kid from Kansas wanting fame will be the next Sean Connery?
Arnold would grealty have benefitted from some math classes.
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fucking fantastic for you, you named three successful people... WOW... Now come up with the odds that some kid from Kansas wanting fame will be the next Sean Connery?
Sometimes people are just fine with running their local theatre or performing stage plays in regional settings. You fail when you assume everyone has the same goals or desires.
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Arnold would grealty have benefitted from some math classes.
I'm an Arnold fan and think he's done pretty good, but I'm not from Cali so I can't say that for everyone lol... He did have the odds stacked against him going into office.
But, you gotta like Arnold... Come on, fuck you if you don't lol...
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Arnold would grealty have benefitted from some math classes.
I'd say Arnies math is fine, judging by his personal net worth...... I think it's the state of Cali that has a problem....haha
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Sometimes people are just fine with running their local theatre or performing stage plays in regional settings. You fail when you assume everyone has the same goals or desires.
you can get those jobs out of high school, you don't need to spend 40,000 to 100,000 or easily more to land those spots ::)
Oh, by the way asswipe, those LOCAL THEATRE SPOTS even if you land them on a semi regular basis won't pay your way fool.
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I'm an Arnold fan and think he's done pretty good, but I'm not from Cali so I can't say that for everyone lol... He did have the odds stacked against him going into office.
But, you gotta like Arnold... Come on, fuck you if you don't lol...
I liked Commando & Predator.
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I liked Commando & Predator.
I love that part in Commando where they slam into the light poll and Arnold is instantly like, "are you alright?"
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Degrees That Get You Noticed
Degrees That Stand Out
Find out which college degrees really stand out to HR.
By Chris Kyle
Struggling to get noticed by employers?
Want to separate yourself from the pack?
Make sure you earn the right degree.
"Right now employers are focused on finding people who can hit the ground running," says Cheryl Jacobs of MCG Partners, a career search and management firm. "To get hired, you need to be able to demonstrate some kind of specialized knowledge."
The right college degree can confirm that you have the expertise that employers want, particularly for those new to the workforce or looking to transition careers, says Jacobs.
[Click here to find the right degree program for you]
If you are contemplating what to study or thinking about going back to school for more career training, here are five degrees that HR experts say can help elevate your resume to the top of the pile.
#1 - Accounting Degree
Average Starting Salary: $46,400
Average Mid-Career Salary: $77,500
According to our HR experts, accounting graduates are in serious demand as companies look to abide by more stringent accounting rules and regulations coming out of Washington, D.C. In fact, accounting is one of the first majors that recruiters mentioned when we asked what degrees are getting noticed in today's tough job market.
Right now the market is stronger for accountants than most other professions, according to Brett Good, senior district president of global staffing firm Robert Half. "We're finding a lot of opportunities for entry-level tax accountants that typically pay between $40-49K," Good said.
[Find Accounting degree programs]
Related Careers and Salaries:
Auditors: $67,430
Budget Analysts: $69,240
Financial Analysts: $85,240
Actuaries: $97,450
HR Tip: "Learn how to use QuickBooks and include it on your resume," said Bob Kelleher, CEO of the Employee Engagement Group, "especially if you're thinking of working as an accountant for a small business, which is where most of the jobs are right now."
[Start your Accounting training. Find the right school!]
#2 - Health Care Administration Degree
Average Starting Salary: $37,700
Average Mid-Career Salary: $60,800
An increasingly specialized health care industry demands workers with a very specific skill set. Majoring in health care administration or studying to become a medical technician are just two of many great options in this massive industry.
"It's hard for communications and business majors to break into the health care field," said Jacobs. "Having a health care or nursing degree gives you a real advantage," she said.
[Search for Health Care degree programs]
Related Careers and Salaries:
Medical Assistants: $29,450
Surgical Technologists: $40,710
Registered Nurses: $66,530
Medical Managers: $90,970
HR Tip: According to Kelleher, enrolling in a two-year associate's degree program can be great preparation for becoming a medical technician or radiologist, two jobs that are showing real growth right now.
[Start training for a Health Care career. Find schools now.]
#3 - Information Technology (IT) Degree
Average Starting Salary: $49,600
Average Mid-Career Salary: $79,300
In today's cost-cutting times, companies are turning to technology to find ways to operate more efficiently. As a result, new IT grads possess the kinds of skills that companies need right now.
"In a booming economy, a sharp kid with a liberal arts degree would find a job easily, but not today," said Kelleher. "In this job market, specific in-demand degrees like IT give you a far better chance of getting hired."
Kelleher singled out information systems and web design applications as two of the hotter IT degrees. "It's also a big help to master applications like WordPress," he says. "The more you learn, the more marketable you become."
[Search for IT degree programs]
Related Careers and Salaries:
Network and Computer Systems Administrators: $70,930
Network Systems and Data Communications Analysts: $76,560
Computer Software Engineers, Applications: $90,170
Computer and Information Scientists: $105,370
HR Tip: Get certified. According to Good, "Professionals with Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA) or Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE) certifications are in-demand."
[Get the training you need to start an IT career. Find schools now.]
#4 - Communications Degree
Average Starting Salary: $38,200
Average Mid-Career Salary: $72,200
In tough economic times like these, marketing/communications majors will find themselves competing against English and other liberal arts majors for many of the same jobs. The fact that they have a more specialized, career-focused education can be a plus, says HR expert Kelleher.
[Find schools that offer Marketing/Communications degree programs]
"The people who succeed in business all have strong communications skills," says Kelleher. Knowing how to get a company's message or product out the door will always be a valuable skill, in good economic times or bad, he says.
Related Careers and Salaries:
Public Relations Specialists: $59,370
Market Research Analysts: $67,500
Advertising and Promotions Managers: $97,670
Marketing Managers: $120,070
HR Tip: "Recent graduates who are able to show how their skills have helped solve business problems, whether as part of a school project or internship, and contributed to a successful campaign will most impress hiring managers," Good said, "particularly if the examples are relevant to the company they are interviewing with."
[Click here for Marketing/Communications degree programs]
#5 - Criminal Justice Degree
Average Starting Salary: $35,600
Average Mid-Career Salary: $58,000
Criminal justice majors study law enforcement techniques and develop critical problem-solving skills at a time when their services are in demand, whether it's as a criminologist, homeland security agent, or police officer.
According to a 2010 post-recession poll by the Society for Human Resource Management, 76 percent of federal government HR managers say they are currently hiring. As an industry, that places the feds second only to health care in hiring. Criminal justice grads are well-positioned for many government jobs, whether it's as a customs agent, probation officer, or federal investigator.
[Find Criminal Justice degree programs]
Related Careers and Salaries:
Correctional Officers and Jailers: $42,610
Firefighters: $47,270
Police Officers: $55,180
Detectives and Criminal Investigators: $65,860
HR Tip: Showcase any military experience you may have. An interest in fitness can also help demonstrate your drive. Sign up for a race or hike a mountain - and don't be afraid to brag about it!
http://education.yahoo.net/articles/degrees_that_stand_out.htm?kid=1DPWK
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Harrison Ford and Sean Connery and Arnold Schwarzenegger disagree with you.
A few exceptions, far from the norm.
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A few exceptions, far from the norm.
Again, you are acting as if you know everyone`s goal and desire.
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Again, you are acting as if you know everyone`s goal and desire.
you're going to hit loco with that line when you couldn't even reply to me after giving the same line lol...
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try again TA, without crossing the line...
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try again TA, without crossing the line...
I didn`t cross the line. I, of all people, have earned the right to joke about Keith Jones or use him as a reference. Our battles were legendary and he would not have minded one bit for me writing this line to you:
"Replying to you is as pointless as cooking dinner for Keith Jones."
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Again, you are acting as if you know everyone`s goal and desire.
What's that supposed to mean? Everyone's goal and desire first of all should be to be able to work for their own food, heat and shelter, to not be a burden to society and to their own family. That should be everyone's first career goal and desire.
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What's that supposed to mean? Everyone's goal and desire first of all should be to be able to work for their own food, heat and shelter, to not be a burden to society and to their own family. That should be everyone's first career goal and desire.
How are you in any position to judge any of those things accurately?
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How are you in any position to judge any of those things accurately?
LOL...you've got to be kidding me. You're a socialist, aren't you? You want people to get a job running their local theater while they live in their parent's basement and/or collect from a government social program, don't you?
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LOL...you've got to be kidding me. You're a socialist, aren't you? You want people to get a job running their local theater while they live in their parent's basement and/or collect from a government social program, don't you?
I don`t really care what someone does if they have the ability to do it. Its none of my business.
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I don`t really care what someone does if they have the ability to do it. Its none of my business.
wish you would use that philosophy in the rest of your life and STFU about shit that has nothing to do with you
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Harrison Ford and Sean Connery and Arnold Schwarzenegger disagree with you.
The average person has a better chance of becoming a professional athlete than they do of becoming the next big movie star.
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The average person has a better chance of becoming a professional athlete than they do of becoming the next big movie star.
What if their goal is to put on Hamlet and Taming of the Shrew at the Shakespeare Festival?
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LOL...you've got to be kidding me. You're a socialist, aren't you? You want people to get a job running their local theater while they live in their parent's basement and/or collect from a government social program, don't you?
Yea.... this falls in line with the tools that say "I don't need to make a lot of money, I just want to do what I love...", then have to live on assistance from others and have student loans until the're 60.
I have a journalist friend who falls into this category. Makes 26K a year and thinks society owes him a free ride because he makes so little. It's sooo not fair he studied a 'jock degree' and drank his way thru school while others were actually learning something useful...
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What if their goal is to put on Hamlet and Taming of the Shrew at the Shakespeare Festival?
Does one deserve tens of thousands of dollars worth of education to do this? Does this really add any real value to society?
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Does one deserve tens of thousands of dollars worth of education to do this? Does this really add any real value to society?
The real question you should be asking is "Why does it cost tens of thousands of dollars worth of education to this?". That is the real travesty. And yes, the arts do add value to society.
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What if their goal is to put on Hamlet and Taming of the Shrew at the Shakespeare Festival?
Some of the best actors in Hollywood and theater have little to no formal training. You either got it or you don't (hence why there are so many failed actors out there).
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Exactly. There should not be a profit motive in college which is why I wish their were a separation of sports and athletics from education. Most tuition hikes are a result of an ever growing athletics program. The highest paid faculty members are the red-faced coaches and their staff.
You mean those "red-faced coaches" whose teams generate millions that benefit the entire school? Unlike the vast majority of other departments.
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You mean those "red-faced coaches" whose teams generate millions that benefit the entire school? Unlike the vast majority of other departments.
(Insert university here) football brings in how much? (Insert university here) marching band and art department make more for the college, right?
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The real question you should be asking is "Why does it cost tens of thousands of dollars worth of education to this?". That is the real travesty. And yes, the arts do add value to society.
And the answer is: Because there are enough dumbasses who think a degree in art or 'recreation science' is worth something, and enough parents who are just happy to get their loser kid out of the house for a few years that are willing to pay the price.
Saying that the arts add value to society is a dubious claim. Most 'art' is nothing more than a centerpiece for wanna-be high class snobs to sit around and pretend to be high-class. Music... maybe, but theater, drama, etc majors add nothing.
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(Insert university here) football brings in how much? (Insert university here) marching band and art department make more for the college, right?
Uh, did you miss the point where I said there should be ZERO profit margin in higher learning and that it SHOULD NOT be a business? George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are rolling in their graves at what has become of their dream of an education system. Look it up.
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And the answer is: Because there are enough dumbasses who think a degree in art or 'recreation science' is worth something, and enough parents who are just happy to get their loser kid out of the house for a few years that are willing to pay the price.
Saying that the arts add value to society is a dubious claim. Most 'art' is nothing more than a centerpiece for wanna-be high class snobs to sit around and pretend to be high-class. Music... maybe, but theater, drama, etc majors add nothing.
I don't think anyone would say that Shakespeare didn't bring value to society... The arts do provide value of course, however, there are limited career options when you choose certain artistic outlets.
Now... Let's be factual... In the past 10 years, tuition at virtually all universities in the United States has DOUBLED.
It costs 100 percent more to go to college today then it did in 2000. That's far beyond inflation or cost of living... There's obviously something dubious going on with the cost of higher education.
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Uh, did you miss the point where I said there should be ZERO profit margin in higher learning and that it SHOULD NOT be a business? George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are rolling in their graves at what has become of their dream of an education system. Look it up.
Yeah I'm sure Jefferson would just hate to see what happened to the University of Virginia. What a terrible university.
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Yeah I'm sure Jefferson would just hate to see what happened to the University of Virginia. What a terrible university.
The modus operandi of the current American college system would certainly enrage him, UVA included.
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Uh, did you miss the point where I said there should be ZERO profit margin in higher learning and that it SHOULD NOT be a business? George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are rolling in their graves at what has become of their dream of an education system. Look it up.
Yea Adam, I did.
College is nothing more than adult day care for a lot of people these days.
We need to get back to only allowing the quality learners and contributors in.
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The world needs ditch diggers too...
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The modus operandi of the current American college system would certainly enrage him, UVA included.
Oh please. UVA is one of the best institutions of higher learning in the country.
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I can't believe how many people I know get degrees in useless things in college (theater? womens studies? recreation management??) and then cry and moan about not being able to find a job.. .or making $26K/yr after graduating.
College is a business like any other. They are there to make money, and is some fool will pay $65000 for a film degree, of course the ssystem is going to accomidate them.
EXACTLY!!! If you don't get a major in some field that can pay the bills, then that's your problem.
But, one way to mitigate college costs (which is being done more these days) is going to junior college/community college for two years, earning an associate's degree, and then either working for a while or directly transferring to a 4-year college/university.
Plus, too many kids (thanks to our Hollywood/MTV buddies) think college is supposed to be Sodom and Gommorah with books. Your kids' priority isn't to get mindlessly drunk or fornicate until you catch every STDs known to man. To paraphrase my old dorm director, Mr. Kelly (Gibbs Hall), used to say, We got some fine-lookin' women here, some pretty women. But, your momma and daddy sent you here to get that education.
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EXACTLY!!! If you don't get a major in some field that can pay the bills, then that's your problem.
But, one way to mitigate college costs (which is being done more these days) is going to junior college/community college for two years, earning an associate's degree, and then either working for a while or directly transferring to a 4-year college/university.
Plus, too many kids (thanks to our Hollywood/MTV buddies) think college is supposed to be Sodom and Gommorah with books. Your kids' priority isn't to get mindlessly drunk or fornicate until you catch every STDs known to man. To paraphrase my old dorm director, Mr. Kelly (Gibbs Hall), used to say, We got some fine-lookin' women here, some pretty women. But, your momma and daddy sent you here to get that education.
What happened to your Science "education"? Did your teacher fall asleep? ???
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What happened to your Science "education"? Did your teacher fall asleep? ???
Nothing happened to it. It's working just fine, has kept me gainfully employed, and allowed me to provide for my wife and kids.
And none of my teachers fell asleep: not the Physics teacher or the Physics lab teacher, nor the Mechanics of Materials teacher, not the E-Math teachers, nor the Material Science and Engineering teachers, nor the Chemistry teacher nor the Chemistry lab teacher.
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Going Against the Grain, College Will Cut Tuition
By TAMAR LEWIN
For those who wonder how college tuition costs manage to keep rising year after year, apparently defying laws of economic gravity, Sewanee, a liberal arts college in Tennessee, has an answer: they can’t.
On Wednesday, Sewanee announced that it will cut its $46,000 annual bill for students by 10 percent in the fall.
The college, formally Sewanee: The University of the South, is betting that the drop in tuition — which at this point it can afford — will help it compete on two fronts: with the public universities that are siphoning off a growing share of the students it accepts, and with other private colleges where tuition is likely to increase by 4 to 5 percent this year, as it has for the last two years.
“The university has made a bold and perhaps risky move,” said John M. McCardell Jr., who became vice chancellor of Sewanee a year ago. “But given the realities of higher education in the current economy, we believe that some college or university needed to step up and say, ‘Enough.’ ”
Sewanee’s move has not been tried by any other institution in the top tier of U.S. News and World Report’s liberal-arts college rankings. And according to the National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities, no college has reduced its tuition this year, and only about a dozen colleges have frozen it.
“Sewanee’s stepping up and out of the box, and it will create some reverberating effects,” said David L. Warren, president of the association. It is a sign of the times — a move prompted not only by the recession, but also by the degree to which small private colleges now compete with large public universities, whose tuition has been rising quickly because money from strapped state governments is declining.
Increasingly, Mr. Warren said, private colleges are competing with the flagship universities in their region. California Lutheran University allows incoming students who have been admitted to some University of California campuses to enroll for the same price they would pay at the public university. Other colleges seek to entice desirable candidates by offering them a similar deal.
Something of that sort was on Mr. McCardell’s mind as well. In the past two years, in head-to-head competitions for students, Sewanee lost 46 to the University of Georgia, 39 to the University of Tennessee, 37 to the University of Virginia and 28 to the University of North Carolina.
The new tuition would put Sewanee within striking distance of the out-of-state tuition at Georgia ($27,000 this year, without room and board, and probably substantially more next year).
Mr. McCardell, the former president of Middlebury College in Vermont, emphasizes that Sewanee is by no means in dire straits, and the pressures and challenges it faces are much the same as those that many — probably most — other small liberal arts colleges are encountering.
Like most, Sewanee has a declining number of students paying full tuition, and a rising number who pay a discounted rate. Nearly 3 out of every 4 students received some financial aid, including loans. The applicant pool is growing, as students submit applications to more colleges — but the percentage of admitted students who choose to enroll at Sewanee is shrinking, and, at just under 24 percent, is at its lowest level of the past decade.
“The trends are discouraging, and what we definitely don’t want to do is move, however slowly, in the direction of dying,” Mr. McCardell said.
The price cut at Sewanee will mean that, over the next three years, about $6 million to $8 million less will flow into the college’s coffers. That means Sewanee may have to draw more heavily on its $315 million endowment for a few years.
But Mr. McCardell, in a memo to the board of regents broaching the idea of cutting tuition, suggested that other considerations were paramount.
The memo read, in part: “If we believe this is the right thing to do; if we believe it will benefit the university in significant, even fundamental, ways; if we believe in the quality of our product; if we believe that all we need to do is bring Sewanee to the attention of a wider audience; and if we believe that there is a value, however computed, to boldness and leadership, then we will figure out how to cover the shortfall.”
Sewanee’s approach goes against the grain. Of the 19 colleges that have cut tuition since 1996, most have been little-known institutions with serious problems. More common have been decisions to increase tuition and fees sharply, in search of what is widely known as the Chivas Regal effect — the perception that high price equals high quality.
And that has sometimes been a boon to colleges. After Hendrix College in Arkansas raised its tuition and fees 29 percent in 2004, for example, its freshman class grew by 37 percent.
Mr. McCardell, though, is not sure that would work in the current economic environment.
“When you look at those things, you have to remember that that was then and this is now,” he said.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/financially-hobbled-for-life-the-elite-masters-degrees-that-dont-pay-off-11625752773?mod=latest_headlines
;D
WTF do these fng liberal losers and retards think is going to happen?
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/financially-hobbled-for-life-the-elite-masters-degrees-that-dont-pay-off-11625752773?mod=latest_headlines
;D
WTF do these fng liberal losers and retards think is going to happen?
They hope to be struck by lightning and be the next Martin Scorcesi.
The odds of that happening are less than being struck by lightning.