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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on February 15, 2011, 04:48:00 PM
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Hawaii considers banning toy gun sales to kids
By Associated Press
POSTED: 06:45 a.m. HST, Feb 15, 2011
(http://media.staradvertiser.com/images/312*207/20110213_newsGUN2.jpg)
Grant Woo, co-owner of Impact Games LLC, put away a G36 airsoft gun Friday at his shop in Aiea. At Impact Games, every purchase comes with a printed set of rules and laws regarding the use of the guns. "With some of these younger kids, they might not realize how serious it is to play with any kind of replica toy gun," he said.
A proposal to ban selling toy guns to children is getting a hearing in the Senate.
The Senate Commerce and Consumer Protection Committee is scheduled to consider the bill Tuesday at 9 a.m. in conference room 229 at the state capitol.
The measure would make it illegal to sell toy guns to anyone under 18 years old, punishable by a maximum fine of $2,000 and 90 days imprisonment.
Toy guns could include everything from water pistols to BB guns. The legislation doesn't provide a definition for a toy gun.
Lawmakers supporting the measure have said the bill's intent is to ensure guns that look real don't get into the hands of children without a parent's permission.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/116234684.html
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And the nanny state continues...
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Pussification of the usa.
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Land of the free ::)
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I don't see what's so bad about it
I disagree with anyone that says they have a "right" to put a toy gun in a child's hands.
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Better to have boys with sponge bob and barbie right?
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Better to have boys with sponge bob and barbie right?
I'm glad you asked for my point of view ;D
I see no evidence of toy guns increasing a child's development, behavior, or character in any shape or form. The ability to purchase toy guns for children is not a basic liberty (I think we can all agree to that). So I see no evidence that tells me I should fight for that "right". If you're arguing about a slippery slope then I think we need to separate that concern from this one.
I have seen one too many children (under the age of 5) point a toy gun at a person and say "pow". I have to be honest, it made me sad to see that.
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Kids have been playing cowboys and indians forever, why is it only now a problem.
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I'm glad you asked for my point of view ;D
I see no evidence of toy guns increasing a child's development, behavior, or character in any shape or form. The ability to purchase toy guns for children is not a basic liberty (I think we can all agree to that). So I see no evidence that tells me I should fight for that "right". If you're arguing about a slippery slope then I think we need to separate that concern from this one.
I have seen one too many children (under the age of 5) point a toy gun at a person and say "pow". I have to be honest, it made me sad to see that.
LOL come the fuck on dude this has to be either the worst trolling attempt ever or the stupidest shit ive ever heard
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LOL come the fuck on dude this has to be either the worst trolling attempt ever or the stupidest shit ive ever heard
Na I'm serious. I cant think of a good reason to support toy guns in children's hands. I think guns are something people should be introduced to once they have matured. I've tried to think of a good reason to support it and I can't, unless you want to turn this into a whole "Should paternalistic laws exist" (i.e. What is the role of government) but that's a different conversation than this one. I'm talking about whether my hypothetical 3 year old son has a natural right to be introduced to the concept of guns. I don't think they do, so there is no sacrifice of rights or liberties here. I've read too many articles about children finding real guns and thinking they were toys, killing their older siblings or one of their parents. If this law saves one accidental death, then I think it'll be worth it; especially if that accidental death is my own child.
In response to 333: I also disagree with children playing cowboys and indians
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Na I'm serious. I cant think of a good reason to support toy guns in children's hands. I think guns are something people should be introduced to once they have matured. I've tried to think of a good reason to support it and I can't, unless you want to turn this into a whole "Should paternalistic laws exist" (i.e. What is the role of government) but that's a different conversation than this one. I'm talking about whether my hypothetical 3 year old son has a natural right to be introduced to the concept of guns. I don't think they do, so there is no sacrifice of rights or liberties here. I've read too many articles about children finding real guns and thinking they were toys, killing their older siblings or one of their parents. If this law saves one accidental death, then I think it'll be worth it; especially if that accidental death is my own child.
In response to 333: I also disagree with children playing cowboys and indians
LOL well as long as you deem it unreasonable i guess that means its ok...
then again some ppl feel that playing with barbies are unreasonable as well so lets outlaw those and oh ya violent video games, go carts, roller blades etc...
you could say the same idiotic shit for all toys bro...
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i like them with the little orange tips. at least then, any kid dumb enough to peel it off - and any parent that doesn't throw the toy in the trash once the kid removes it..
Well, it's just a smart idea to remove it. You can pass out darwin awards to people who break the toy to exercise their right to carry something cops will shoot at them for pointing.
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i like them with the little orange tips. at least then, any kid dumb enough to peel it off - and any parent that doesn't throw the toy in the trash once the kid removes it..
Well, it's just a smart idea to remove it. You can pass out darwin awards to people who break the toy to exercise their right to carry something cops will shoot at them for pointing.
exactly and if im not mistaken its actually illegal to sale toy guns without the orange tip.
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exactly and if im not mistaken its actually illegal to sale toy guns without the orange tip.
sounds fair to me.
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LOL well as long as you deem it unreasonable i guess that means its ok...
then again some ppl feel that playing with barbies are unreasonable as well so lets outlaw those and oh ya violent video games, go carts, roller blades etc...
you could say the same idiotic shit for all toys bro...
It's not only because toy guns are unnecessary. It's also because they have the potential of being dangerous (about children confusing toy guns with real guns for example). To me it's similar to how I don't think I should introduce my child to fake drugs, or toy syringes, or toy cigarettes, etc. I don't think toy guns are on the same level as barbies or go carts or roller blades so I think that analogy doesn't work. There would have to be significant data available showing that toy guns are beneficial for me to change my mind. Until then, I think the consequences (being introduced to a gun lifestyle, possibly confusing toy guns with real guns, considering shooting something or someone with a gun and getting shot as 'play', etc) are worse than the benefits.
You made the mistake of talking about the slippery slope aspect of it. I think that's for a different conversation; I'm only talking about the existence of toy guns and the "right" to buy toy guns for children.
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they will be selling them baby dolls...
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Kid on the left needs protecting.
(http://images.anniescostumes.com/dua251.jpg)
I say we lynch his parents to protect him from their bad parenting.
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Toy guns are no more an issue than Kinder eggs.
Kids are actually pretty smart. I think American kids must be slightly retarded if they need all those rules and regulations. Look at the Kinder egg ban. What kind of retarded child would try to eat the toy? Are we confusing infants & children, here?
As for all this "a kid may confuse a real gun for a toy" - that's nonsense. If you leave a real gun lying around within a childs reach, you are asking for trouble. Or do you think leaving a real gun on the sofa will be OK as long as your kids haven't played with toy guns? Here's a hint - if your kids have access to firearms, it ain't toys that are the issue.
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It's not only because toy guns are unnecessary. It's also because they have the potential of being dangerous (about children confusing toy guns with real guns for example). To me it's similar to how I don't think I should introduce my child to fake drugs, or toy syringes, or toy cigarettes, etc. I don't think toy guns are on the same level as barbies or go carts or roller blades so I think that analogy doesn't work. There would have to be significant data available showing that toy guns are beneficial for me to change my mind. Until then, I think the consequences (being introduced to a gun lifestyle, possibly confusing toy guns with real guns, considering shooting something or someone with a gun and getting shot as 'play', etc) are worse than the benefits.
You made the mistake of talking about the slippery slope aspect of it. I think that's for a different conversation; I'm only talking about the existence of toy guns and the "right" to buy toy guns for children.
REALLY??? well lets look at how many young girls have eating disorders in comparison to how many young boys accidentally kill someone with a gun they thought was fake?
FACT is far more girls have eating disorders that can be directly attributed to the idea of "barbie" than there are the idiocy your spouting off about...so lets outlaw barbie dolls as well then...
LOL by your logic there isnt a right to buy any kind of toy magoo...so lets just ban them all then
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REALLY??? well lets look at how many young girls have eating disorders in comparison to how many young boys accidentally kill someone with a gun they thought was fake?
FACT is far more girls have eating disorders that can be directly attributed to the idea of "barbie" than there are the idiocy your spouting off about...so lets outlaw barbie dolls as well then...
LOL by your logic there isnt a right to buy any kind of toy magoo...so lets just ban them all then
Young girls shouldn't be persuaded to think that Barbie's proportions and features are realistic. I don't know why you keep saying "well since there are worse things, we should also have _____, although it's bad." I don't think we should have either young boys pretending to shoot their friends, nor girls thinking that they should physically resemble Barbie to a tee. Barbie's can be made and given to girls without impossible physical ratios; that part of a barbie isn't a necessary component of that toy. If you want to talk about Barbies then that is a different conversation, this thread is about whether or not it's a good idea for children to have toy guns. I still think there are better ways for 3 year old boys to have fun that does not involve pointing a toy gun at a sibling and pretending to shoot them. There are better toys out there that dont mimic guns.
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Yeah, like toy tanks, bomber planes, gi-joes, etc.
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I grew up with toy, and real, guns in our house....vast majority of my very young years were spent playing "army" with my brothers and friends. Same for almost all of my friends. The difference being that my dad and brothers taught me the difference between the toy and real and were responsible gun owners.
I hate it, but times have changed. I don't know it an all out ban is the solution, but the youth of today are certainly a far cry from what they were when i grew up. Very sad that we even have to have this conversation.
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Young girls shouldn't be persuaded to think that Barbie's proportions and features are realistic. I don't know why you keep saying "well since there are worse things, we should also have _____, although it's bad." I don't think we should have either young boys pretending to shoot their friends, nor girls thinking that they should physically resemble Barbie to a tee. Barbie's can be made and given to girls without impossible physical ratios; that part of a barbie isn't a necessary component of that toy. If you want to talk about Barbies then that is a different conversation, this thread is about whether or not it's a good idea for children to have toy guns. I still think there are better ways for 3 year old boys to have fun that does not involve pointing a toy gun at a sibling and pretending to shoot them. There are better toys out there that dont mimic guns.
just trying to show where your logic takes us...you cant look at things in a bubble magoo...
but for the sake of this thats fine well stay in your defined imaginary bubble...
what specific harm do you attribute to toy guns?
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would you do away with NERF guns as well magoo?
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would you do away with NERF guns as well magoo?
Shold we do away with supersoakers?
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Shold we do away with supersoakers?
good question...
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just trying to show where your logic takes us...you cant look at things in a bubble magoo...
but for the sake of this thats fine well stay in your defined imaginary bubble...
what specific harm do you attribute to toy guns?
It's not looking at things in a bubble. It's keeping focus on the main issue.
The harm of toy guns is that they are made to look like exact duplicates of items who sole purpose is to kill things (animals included; I'm looking at the aggregate- not the same population that actually only uses guns for target practice) These duplicate guns are put into the hands of children where they are exposed to the world of guns. These children go around pointing the gun and pulling the trigger at things (family members and friends) and they consider this to be "play". I know this for a fact, I grew up playing cowboys and Indians and "War" and I had the largest collection of those pop guns with the red things in it to make it sound like an actual gun. I know of several children as young as 2-3 that carry a BB gun around and point it at their parents and pull the trigger while laughing. Imagine if the child got ahold of a real gun, they would not be able to tell the difference. In the south where I live (as does Showstoppa) it's realistic that every household has at least one gun if not many. If the child got ahold of a real gun without all those hours of practice on a fake one, they wouldn't be so eager to pull the trigger. There are tons of articles like this that are common on news stations around here and I know of several children that died from this. It is not worth the gamble. The benefits do not outweigh the cost. The possibilities of desensitizing children to something as dangerous as guns is not worth it. I think a similar example would be, would you expose your 2 year old child to toy cigarettes or toy drugs? I think most people wouldnt ever consider doing that; yet they continue to expose children to guns because it's always been like that and people don't usually question habit.
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Shold we do away with supersoakers?
No I would not do away with supersoakers or nerf guns. These are not exact duplicates of real life guns that have the possibility of killing someone if put into a mistaken child's hands.
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It's not looking at things in a bubble. It's keeping focus on the main issue.
The harm of toy guns is that they are made to look like exact duplicates of items who sole purpose is to kill things (animals included; I'm looking at the aggregate- not the same population that actually only uses guns for target practice) These duplicate guns are put into the hands of children where they are exposed to the world of guns. These children go around pointing the gun and pulling the trigger at things (family members and friends) and they consider this to be "play". I know this for a fact, I grew up playing cowboys and Indians and "War" and I had the largest collection of those pop guns with the red things in it to make it sound like an actual gun. I know of several children as young as 2-3 that carry a BB gun around and point it at their parents and pull the trigger while laughing. Imagine if the child got ahold of a real gun, they would not be able to tell the difference. In the south where I live (as does Showstoppa) it's realistic that every household has at least one gun if not many. If the child got ahold of a real gun without all those hours of practice on a fake one, they wouldn't be so eager to pull the trigger. There are tons of articles like this that are common on news stations around here and I know of several children that died from this. It is not worth the gamble. The benefits do not outweigh the cost. The possibilities of desensitizing children to something as dangerous as guns is not worth it. I think a similar example would be, would you expose your 2 year old child to toy cigarettes or toy drugs? I think most people wouldnt ever consider doing that; yet that continue to expose children to guns because it's always been like that and people don't usually question habit.
Shold we ban paintball guns?
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Shold we ban paintball guns?
The paintball guns I have seen look very weird, they look unlike guns that would be found in a home. So no, we should not ban paintball guns. However, I do not play paintball and never have so maybe there are similar looking guns but I am not aware of them.
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It's not looking at things in a bubble. It's keeping focus on the main issue.
The harm of toy guns is that they are made to look like exact duplicates of items who sole purpose is to kill things (animals included; I'm looking at the aggregate- not the same population that actually only uses guns for target practice) These duplicate guns are put into the hands of children where they are exposed to the world of guns. These children go around pointing the gun and pulling the trigger at things (family members and friends) and they consider this to be "play". I know this for a fact, I grew up playing cowboys and Indians and "War" and I had the largest collection of those pop guns with the red things in it to make it sound like an actual gun. I know of several children as young as 2-3 that carry a BB gun around and point it at their parents and pull the trigger while laughing. Imagine if the child got ahold of a real gun, they would not be able to tell the difference. In the south where I live (as does Showstoppa) it's realistic that every household has at least one gun if not many. If the child got ahold of a real gun without all those hours of practice on a fake one, they wouldn't be so eager to pull the trigger. There are tons of articles like this that are common on news stations around here and I know of several children that died from this. It is not worth the gamble. The benefits do not outweigh the cost. The possibilities of desensitizing children to something as dangerous as guns is not worth it. I think a similar example would be, would you expose your 2 year old child to toy cigarettes or toy drugs? I think most people wouldnt ever consider doing that; yet they continue to expose children to guns because it's always been like that and people don't usually question habit.
its looking at things in a bubble magoo plain and simple...
so youre big thing is that they might pick up a real gun and accidentally shoot someone with it thinking its a real gun?
thats where your problem stems from?
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The paintball guns I have seen look very weird, they look unlike guns that would be found in a home. So no, we should not ban paintball guns. However, I do not play paintball and never have so maybe there are similar looking guns but I am not aware of them.
LOL here you go magoo
http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/paintball-gunmarker-c-21.html
plenty of real looking guns in paintball
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its looking at things in a bubble magoo plain and simple...
so youre big thing is that they might pick up a real gun and accidentally shoot someone with it thinking its a real gun?
thats where your problem stems from?
Yes. That and the desensitisation of guns for when they do come into contact with real guns, which is related. I know families where this has happened and have heard about it happening a lot. It's a real problem.
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LOL here you go magoo
http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/paintball-gunmarker-c-21.html
plenty of real looking guns in paintball
i just googled some images, and all I've seen before are the real cheap paintball guns. Paintball guns is a bit more complicated because it's usually teenagers (I think?) that play paintball, so they are not impressionable children to the same degree that 2-6 year olds are. But if impressionable children will be playing paintball, then the guns that are made to look like real guns are not necessary.
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Yes. That and the desensitisation of guns for when they do come into contact with real guns, which is related. I know families where this has happened and have heard about it happening a lot. It's a real problem.
LOL there are plenty of stories of kids who have never handled a gun finding one and shooting a friend or family member as well...
sorry magoo that logic doesnt stick, you can educate children about real guns...
toy guns also have appropriate ages for children and the onus is on the parents to do the right thing.
sounds like you have less of a problem with toy guns and more of a problem with bad parents an you have misplaced your frustration.
I grew up in a household with toy guns, bb guns and real guns and knew the difference and that I was not allowed under any circumstances to handle a real or bb gun without my dad and guess what I PAID ATTENTION...
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i just googled some images, and all I've seen before are the real cheap paintball guns. Paintball guns is a bit more complicated because it's usually teenagers (I think?) that play paintball, so they are not impressionable children to the same degree that 2-6 year olds are. But if impressionable children will be playing paintball, then the guns that are made to look like real guns are not necessary.
show me toy guns that have age recommendations for 2 or 3 year olds...
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show me toy guns that have age recommendations for 2 or 3 year olds...
I have handled guns most of my life,have been playing GTA for years, had BB's guns, now have AR's, AK, glocks, 870's, etc, yet never shot anyone.
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LOL there are plenty of stories of kids who have never handled a gun finding one and shooting a friend or family member as well...
sorry magoo that logic doesnt stick, you can educate children about real guns...
toy guns also have appropriate ages for children and the onus is on the parents to do the right thing.
sounds like you have less of a problem with toy guns and more of a problem with bad parents an you have misplaced your frustration.
I grew up in a household with toy guns, bb guns and real guns and knew the difference and that I was not allowed under any circumstances to handle a real or bb gun without my dad and guess what I PAID ATTENTION...
Yes there are stories, but the exceptions does not disprove the aggregate. The logic does stick. I'm looking at on a whole. The benefits of saved lives and prevention of unnecessary deaths outweigh the "joy" your 3 year old might get from pretending to kill you while playing toy guns.
Toy guns does have an appropriate age limit. But let's face reality, not many people know offhand what those ages are. Both me, you, and showstoppa grew up with a ton of toy guns, can you say without looking up what the age appropriate on those guns were? I know I cant, because nobody paid attention to it. Crossing one's fingers and hoping for parents to be better and more engaged in what toys are appropriate for their children is wishing for a longshot, in reality that is not likely to happen. Just because me and you both grew up with toy guns, BB guns, real guns, etc, does not mean that it's okay for anyone. I just can't picture myself telling a father that I know who lost his little boy due to a gun accident that despite his dead child, all children should still be given toy guns that look exactly like real guns.
Why can't you just agree to the idea that they should make toy guns look extremely toy like and not life like. What is necessary about having a toy gun that is identical to a real one? This would work in teaching young children the difference between their own "gun" and their dad's gun. If a life is saved, isn't it worth it? How many lives would have to be saved before you would admit that something needs to be done?
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I have handled guns most of my life,have been playing GTA for years, had BB's guns, now have AR's, AK, glocks, 870's, etc, yet never shot anyone.
Your argument doesn't work. The outliers do not disprove the aggregate. For example, just because you may have been spanked as a child and did not grow up to commit criminal acts does not prove that the majority of children spanked do grow up to commit crimes.
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Your argument doesn't work. The outliers do not disprove the aggregate. For example, just because you may have been spanked as a child and did not grow up to commit criminal acts does not prove that the majority of children spanked do grow up to commit crimes.
So i am the extreme, or is it the other way around?
Most of my buddys are armed to the teeth with AR's, AK's, 870's, Glocks,etc yet never harmed a person. Should we make policy based upon the .00000001% of fuck ups?
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Your argument doesn't work. The outliers do not disprove the aggregate. For example, just because you may have been spanked as a child and did not grow up to commit criminal acts does not prove that the majority of children spanked do grow up to commit crimes.
LOL youre examples are the OUTLIERS broham...
there are thousands of guns in this country how many kids accidently shoot a family member?
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LOL youre examples are the OUTLIERS broham...
there are thousands of guns in this country how many kids accidently shoot a family member?
too many.
The point of the post to 333 was that his own lack of not killing (his "joy") does not outweigh the cost of those that do kill (those that suffer).
He can't base policy on his own experience.
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too many.
The point of the post to 333 was that his own lack of not killing (his "joy") does not outweigh the cost of those that do kill (those that suffer).
He can't base policy on his own experience.
My post is based on the fact that 50% of homes have firearm and that incidents are an anomoly if you consider everything in scale.
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My post is based on the fact that 50% of homes have firearm and that incidents are an anomoly if you consider everything in scale.
See above post:
"Why can't you just agree to the idea that they should make toy guns look extremely toy like and not life like. What is necessary about having a toy gun that is identical to a real one? This would work in teaching young children the difference between their own "gun" and their dad's gun. If a life is saved, isn't it worth it? How many lives would have to be saved before you would admit that something needs to be done?"
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See above post:
"Why can't you just agree to the idea that they should make toy guns look extremely toy like and not life like. What is necessary about having a toy gun that is identical to a real one? This would work in teaching young children the difference between their own "gun" and their dad's gun. If a life is saved, isn't it worth it? How many lives would have to be saved before you would admit that something needs to be done?"
I have no problem with the painting the whole toy orange or yellow stuff and think that is a good thing tbh. Just my .02
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too many.
The point of the post to 333 was that his own lack of not killing (his "joy") does not outweigh the cost of those that do kill (those that suffer).
He can't base policy on his own experience.
and you cant base policy on your own opinion...
FACT is the VAST MAJORITY of gun owners dont wind up with someone shot in their family by a kid who mistook the gun for a fake one...
so why do you feel you have a valid basis for youre argument to ban toy guns?
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and you cant base policy on your own opinion...
FACT is the VAST MAJORITY of gun owners dont wind up with someone shot in their family by a kid who mistook the gun for a fake one...
so why do you feel you have a valid basis for youre argument to ban toy guns?
because it will save lives, and lives are important. I dont know why you keep insisting that as long as less than 50% of gun owners die, then it's okay. Banning toy guns (assuming the toy gun is an exact duplicate of a real gun, which goes back to the compromise that me and 333 were willing to make) may save lives. I believe the benefit (saving lives/avoiding the desensitization) is much higher than the cost (your child might not be able to play Army with a toy designed to look like a real gun). I don't understand why you disagree with that cost/benefit analysis. What value do you place on children playing with toy guns that look identical to real guns? ???
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because it will save lives, and lives are important. I dont know why you keep insisting that as long as less than 50% of gun owners die, then it's okay. Banning toy guns (assuming the toy gun is an exact duplicate of a real gun, which goes back to the compromise that me and 333 were willing to make) may save lives. I believe the benefit (saving lives/avoiding the desensitization) is much higher than the cost (your child might not be able to play Army with a toy designed to look like a real gun). I don't understand why you disagree with that cost/benefit analysis. What value do you place on children playing with toy guns that look identical to real guns? ???
LOL first off its way lower than 50%...
give me the numbers that you feel are so appaling magoo....how many kids end up killing someone b/c they thought a real gun was a fake one...
secondly like I said if im not mistaken its illegal to sale toy guns without an orange tip...meaning THEY ARE NOT IDENTICAL...are you ok with selling them as long as they have orange tips?
LOL this is going to be good :D
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LOL first off its way lower than 50%...
give me the numbers that you feel are so appaling magoo....how many kids end up killing someone b/c they thought a real gun was a fake one...
secondly like I said if im not mistaken its illegal to sale toy guns without an orange tip...meaning THEY ARE NOT IDENTICAL...are you ok with selling them as long as they have orange tips?
LOL this is going to be good :D
I don't think the orange tip is enough. Because it still happens. I don't know the numbers but I have seen many stories in local papers in the past few months at least, not counting what I know first hand. I am advocating that high numbers are not needed in order to take action. I said earlier "how many children must die before you think this is an important issue?" the point being that if it saves one life, then it is worth it to me. The benefit of saving one life outweighs the "joy" that might come from every child in this country playing with a toy gun that strongly resembles a real gun to the degree where children can easily mistake a real one for a fake one (that is the crucial point).
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I don't think the orange tip is enough. Because it still happens. I don't know the numbers but I have seen many stories in local papers in the past few months at least, not counting what I know first hand. I am advocating that high numbers are not needed in order to take action. I said earlier "how many children must die before you think this is an important issue?" the point being that if it saves one life, then it is worth it to me. The benefit of saving one life outweighs the "joy" that might come from every child in this country playing with a toy gun that strongly resembles a real gun to the degree where children can easily mistake a real one for a fake one (that is the crucial point).
LOL well one or two idiots do not make a good backing for your case...
FACT of the matter is the cases your talking about are very very VERY OBSCURE...
so no banning all toy guns so that a few idiots can live safely is not a good idea...
now if you will burst the imaginary bubble youre in and see where your logic leads magoo ;)
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I don't think the orange tip is enough. Because it still happens. I don't know the numbers but I have seen many stories in local papers in the past few months at least, not counting what I know first hand. I am advocating that high numbers are not needed in order to take action. I said earlier "how many children must die before you think this is an important issue?" the point being that if it saves one life, then it is worth it to me. The benefit of saving one life outweighs the "joy" that might come from every child in this country playing with a toy gun that strongly resembles a real gun to the degree where children can easily mistake a real one for a fake one (that is the crucial point).
too many.
The point of the post to 333 was that his own lack of not killing (his "joy") does not outweigh the cost of those that do kill (those that suffer).
He can't base policy on his own experience.
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LOL well one or two idiots do not make a good backing for your case...
FACT of the matter is the cases your talking about are very very VERY OBSCURE...
so no banning all toy guns so that a few idiots can live safely is not a good idea...
now if you will burst the imaginary bubble youre in and see where your logic leads magoo ;)
you're wrong. It is much larger than "one or two". Unfortunately, a child mistaking a real gun for a toy gun is very common (remember michael moore talking about the one case in his hometown in Michigan not long after columbine where a 5 year old thought a real gun was a toy gun, brought it to school, and shot a classmate? That was discussed about in a major documentary, my examples are just what appears in a local southern newspaper or local online news website). You also have to consider the desensitization issue as well that don't show up necessary in dead bodies count. Yes banning toy guns (or do what me and 333 agreed upon which is to make toy guns more "toyish" and less "gunish") to save lives is a good idea because it is good to prevent unnecessary pain or harm.
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He was denying the existence of a problem. I said that because he has never seen a problem is not a reason to say that a problem doesn't exist.
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you're wrong. It is much larger than "one or two". Unfortunately, a child mistaking a real gun for a toy gun is very common (remember michael moore talking about the one case in his hometown in Michigan not long after columbine where a 5 year old thought a real gun was a toy gun, brought it to school, and shot a classmate? That was discussed about in a major documentary, my examples are just what appears in a local southern newspaper or local online news website). You also have to consider the desensitization issue as well that don't show up necessary in dead bodies count. Yes banning toy guns (or do what me and 333 agreed upon which is to make toy guns more "toyish" and less "gunish") to save lives is a good idea because it is good to prevent unnecessary pain or harm.
LOL so youre source is michael moore? HAHAHHAAH
sorry bro you cant produce any number, only can say "Ive seen it to many times"...well ive never seen it once so...I guess we even out ;)
LOL again it seems like you have a problem with bad parents not toy guns and have misplaced your frustration...
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He was denying the existence of a problem. I said that because he has never seen a problem is not a reason to say that a problem doesn't exist.
and im quoting you b/c you seem to think this is an epidemic but cant provide any figures...only your personal experiences and the personal experience of MICHAEL MOORE lmfao
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LOL so youre source is michael moore? HAHAHHAAH
sorry bro you cant produce any number, only can say "Ive seen it to many times"...well ive never seen it once so...I guess we even out ;)
LOL again it seems like you have a problem with bad parents not toy guns and have misplaced your frustration...
michael moore is not a source. Michael Moore famously gave an example which I thought you must have heard before now and he talked about the same problem I'm talking about. The issue is out there, it's real. I don't know why you keep laughing in your posts (That's a logic fallacy to try to win an argument btw, laughing to make it seem less serious). I can't produce a number because I haven't done any research on it. If i did do research, I'm pretty confident that numbers could come up. But my point is that a "majority" is arbitrary. Lives should not be saved only when shed in the light of being large or in a "majority". I have a problem with both bad parents and the existence of toy guns made deliberately to look like real guns (I think both issues deserved to be addressed). Whether or not the death toll is in the millions, thousands, or hundreds, or even tens, these are all unnecessary, preventable deaths, and to not take action to prevent preventable deaths is, I believe, immoral. It is our duty to prevent unneeded deaths.
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and im quoting you b/c you seem to think this is an epidemic but cant provide any figures...only your personal experiences and the personal experience of MICHAEL MOORE lmfao
I never said it was an epidemic. I said it was a real problem that can be easily solved without much cost, therefore it should be solved.
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michael moore is not a source. Michael Moore famously gave an example which I thought you must have heard before now and he talked about the same problem I'm talking about. The issue is out there, it's real. I don't know why you keep laughing in your posts (That's a logic fallacy to try to win an argument btw, laughing to make it seem less serious). I can't produce a number because I haven't done any research on it. If i did do research, I'm pretty confident that numbers could come up. But my point is that a "majority" is arbitrary. Lives should not be saved only when shed in the light of being large or in a "majority". I have a problem with both bad parents and the existence of toy guns made deliberately to look like real guns (I think both issues deserved to be addressed). Whether or not the death toll is in the millions, thousands, or hundreds, or even tens, these are all unnecessary, preventable deaths, and to not take action to prevent preventable deaths is, I believe, immoral. It is our duty to prevent unneeded deaths.
LOL so b/c michael moore has one example and you have a few, we should ban all toy guns?
LOL like I said youre argument is erroneous b/c its a very very VERY OBSCURE scenario
no you should not inconvinence millions in order to keep a few idiots from making mistakes...
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I never said it was an epidemic. I said it was a real problem that can be easily solved without much cost, therefore it should be solved.
what constitutes a real problem magoo?
please give me an idea of how many times you think this happens in a year...
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LOL so b/c michael moore has one example and you have a few, we should ban all toy guns?
LOL like I said youre argument is erroneous b/c its a very very VERY OBSCURE scenario
no you should not inconvinence millions in order to keep a few idiots from making mistakes...
It is not an inconvenience to make toy guns more toyish. I doubt anyone agrees with you that children have a "right" to play with toy guns that are similar to real guns. Therefore, making the toys less real looking is not an inconvenience or a "burden" in any way.
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what constitutes a real problem magoo?
please give me an idea of how many times you think this happens in a year...
a real problem is when people die in unnecessary, easily preventable deaths that can be solved without much cost. This issue falls under that category.
In response to your second part: Do I really have to discuss how numbers are arbitrary again? The existence of numbers is what is important, not how many digits there are in a given number.
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It is not an inconvenience to make toy guns more toyish. I doubt anyone agrees with you that children have a "right" to play with toy guns that are similar to real guns. Therefore, making the toys less real looking is not an inconvenience or a "burden" in any way.
they are already distinguishable between real guns...
how many real guns you know that have orange tips?
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a real problem is when people die in unnecessary, easily preventable deaths that can be solved without much cost. This issue falls under that category.
In response to your second part: Do I really have to discuss how numbers are arbitrary again? The existence of numbers is what is important, not how many digits there are in a given number.
LOL that same logic could apply to all toys brain child
the numbers arent arbitrary b/c again a few idiots do not determine what 99.99% of the population should do or not do...
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they are already distinguishable between real guns...
how many real guns you know that have orange tips?
That is not enough because impressionable children are still making the mistake of confusing the two. You seriously look at how realistic toy guns are becoming to real guns (for example: the picture posted in the article on page 1) and think a tiny orange circle in the end of the barrel is enough for a child to know the difference? Why can't you agree that more measures are needed, such as painting them yellow or designing them different from real guns, etc.
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That is not enough because impressionable children are still making the mistake of confusing the two. You seriously look at how realistic toy guns are becoming to real guns (for example: the picture posted in the article on page 1) and think a tiny orange circle in the end of the barrel is enough for a child to know the difference? Why can't you agree that more measures are needed, such as painting them yellow or designing them different from real guns, etc.
id be fine with painting them all orange or some other color the designs no
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id be fine with painting them all orange or some other color the designs no
k we agree on the colors
now why do you think it's necessary for that gun on page 1 of this article to be designed that similar to an AK-47 (Should toy guns really resemble real guns (i.e. should I have been able to automatically tell what real gun that toy gun is based on)?
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k we agree on the colors
now why do you think it's necessary for that gun on page 1 of this article to be designed that similar to an AK-47 (Should toy guns really resemble real guns (i.e. should I have been able to automatically tell what real gun that toy gun is based on)?
I dont see a problem with the design if you can tell by other means its a fake gun...
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question for you magoo, you say numbers are arbitrary...
so say just 1 child made the mistake, you feel thats enough to ban all toy guns for every other child?
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question for you magoo, you say numbers are arbitrary...
so say just 1 child made the mistake, you feel thats enough to ban all toy guns for every other child?
It would depend on the circumstances (for example: How likely will children in the future make the same mistake)
But if one death could be easily prevented (By painting toy guns yellow, it would prevent a 5 year old child three years from now from picking up a real gun while thinking it's a toy and shoot his parent) then yes that death deserves to be prevented. Low cost (painting toy guns yellow) - High benefit (saving the life of that child's parent). I don't think enjoyment of toy guns by children will decline significantly (if any) if the guns are yellow or whatever.
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I dont see a problem with the design if you can tell by other means its a fake gun...
I don't think a child would be able to quickly tell the difference between that toy gun and a similar real AK47 (same size and color). I don't think the orange tip is the deal breaker in a child's mind between "it's okay to play with" and "this is a deadly weapon and I should stay away."
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It would depend on the circumstances (for example: How likely will children in the future make the same mistake)
But if one death could be easily prevented (By painting toy guns yellow, it would prevent a 5 year old child three years from now from picking up a real gun while thinking it's a toy and shoot his parent) then yes that death deserves to be prevented. Low cost (painting toy guns yellow) - High benefit (saving the life of that child's parent). I don't think enjoyment of toy guns by children will decline significantly (if any) if the guns are yellow or whatever.
lol will you please link me to one of these prevelant incidents that you feel bolster your argument
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I don't think a child would be able to quickly tell the difference between that toy gun and a similar real AK47 (same size and color). I don't think the orange tip is the deal breaker in a child's mind between "it's okay to play with" and "this is a deadly weapon and I should stay away."
I could, my friends could, tons of kids across the nation can...
its up to the parent that buy them those toys to explain the difference and the consequences...
again you have a problem with shitty parents not toy guns...
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My issue is not w the kids, but the trigger happy cops who would cap one of these kids running around with these things.
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lol will you please link me to one of these prevelant incidents that you feel bolster your argument
google "mistaken, toy gun" and look at the news articles. There are a lot more than I thought. You can see for yourself.
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My issue is not w the kids, but the trigger happy cops who would cap one of these kids running around with these things.
THIS is a credible argument...
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google "mistaken, toy gun" and look at the news articles. There are a lot more than I thought. You can see for yourself.
I did i got one from vietnam and one from the US from 3 years ago...
sorry magoo, please find some for me...
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Like I said kids playing w toy guns is not a problem imho - however a kid runniong around w a replica ar15 may get shot by cops, so I have no issue w the coloring of these things.
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Like I said kids playing w toy guns is not a problem imho - however a kid runniong around w a replica ar15 may get shot by cops, so I have no issue w the coloring of these things.
I can agree with that, 10x more ppl die b/c cops mistake these the toy guns for real guns than b/c some kid mistakes the toy gun for a real gun and shoots someone
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FACT SHEET ABOUT TOY GUNS
Toy weapons are increasingly being used to commit real crimes, and more children are being killed when a toy gun is mistaken for a real gun, or a real gun for a toy. Consider the following alarming facts about toy guns, crimes, and children/youth being killed:
1. On May 5, 2008, in Southaven, Mississippi, five elementary school students were suspended for bringing two realistic looking toy guns (pellet guns) to school. The toy guns’ orange safety tips were painted black.
2. On February 6, 2008, in Okaloosa County, Florida, the Niceville Police Department responded to a drive-by BB gun shooting which caused injury to the eye of a young innocent bystander.
3. On January 6, 2008, in Belleville, Illinois, a 39-year-old man was shot by police when the man pulled out a gray toy pistol, which looked real, from his waistband.
4. On October 26, 2007, in San Diego, California, a gun scare caused the lockdown at Juan Diego School. The gun turned out to be a toy gun (Air soft replica of Berretta 92).
5. On October 5, 2007, in Bakersfield, California, a 49-year-old man, Frank Ramos Sr. was fatally shot and killed by two Bakersfield police officers because he was holding a gun while standing in the street. The gun turned out to be an imitation toy firearm.
6. On June 22, 2007, in West Memphis, Arkansas, a 12-year-old boy, De Aunta Farrow, was shot and killed by a Memphis police officer because he was holding a toy gun in his hand, and the police officer said it looked real.
7. On April 8, 2007, in Mount Vernon, New York, a 13-year-old boy was arrested by the police when he tried to rob a Chinese restaurant, with what police said was something that looked like a 38-caliber hand gun. The gun turned out to be a plastic Airsoft toy gun. The police officer said he was worried that these kids can get shot for nothing.
8. On March 29, 2007, in Salt Lake City, Utah, four teenagers were arrested by a West Valley Police Officer, for a drive- by shooting, with a toy gun.
9. On March 22, 2007, in Little Rock, Arkansas, a 12-year-old boy was shot and killed by a police officer. The child’s silver toy gun was mistaken by the police for a real handgun.
10. On February 24, 2007, in Brooklyn, New York, Sean ”Light” Anderson, a 27-year-old, caused a real gun fight, when getting into a car with what appeared to be an AK-47 machine gun. The cops fired several shots, but miraculously nobody was struck. Turned out, the gun was a fake. A shocked witness said: “[The cops] running and shooting down the block where there could have been innocent bystanders.”
11. In February 2007, in New Jersey, a teenager robbed a man for his Cocker Spaniel with an Airsoft gun, which looked like a .45-caliber handgun. Police are concerned about mistaking the toy gun for the real gun, and these could result in tragedies.
12. On February 12, 2007, in San Diego, California, Noe Rojas, a 17-year-old teenager, was shot and killed, by an 11 year veteran police officer, for having a toy gun, which resembled a .38 caliber revolver, during a traffic stop.
13. On November 26, 2006, in St. Louis, Missouri, police shot and wounded a 13-year-old boy in the hip, leg, and arm because officers said that the boy reached into his waist band, and pointed a toy revolver, which looked authentic, at them.
14. On November 24, 2006, in Miami, Florida, Jose Varela, a 50-year-old freelance cartoonist, caused an at least two hour standoff at the Miami Harold’s Tribune building for carrying and pointing a realistic looking black plastic toy gun, resembling a semiautomatic weapon at people. He was later arrested, and jailed.
15. On July 25, 2006, in Ontario, California, a 15-year-old boy was shot and wounded when he pulled out and pointed, what appeared to be a .44-caliber magnum handgun, at some people. The gun turned out to be an Airsoft replica toy gun, which shoots rubber or plastic pellets. The toy gun had the orange tip, but the police said that the orange tip was not visible!!
16. On May 1, 2006, in West Valley City, Utah, a 10-year-old boy, a fourth-grade elementary school student, was suspended and booked into a juvenile detention facility for taking a plastic pellet-firing Airsoft pistol to school, and for shooting at least 13 classmates.
17. On March 7, 2006, in Newark, New Jersey, a 32-year-old man was fatally shot by the police officers for brandishing a gun that appeared to be a chrome semi-automatic pistol. The man had a history of mental illness, and the gun turned out to be a toy gun purchased from an ice cream man. This was the first police shooting in Newark in 12 years.
18. On July 7, 2006, in Cleveland, Ohio, a 55-year-old, James Nugent, got shot by a toy BB gun in the lower back by two Ohio State University students/ basketball players.
19. On February 20, 2006, a Sargent High School freshman got suspended for bringing a pellet-shooting toy gun into school, and shooting a female student in the leg.
20. On February 11, 2006, in Texas, Round Rock Police Officers had to draw weapons on two different teenagers on two different occasions for carrying toy weapons looking like a 45. Sgt. Ben Hall of the Round Rock Police Department said, “Had he pulled out a weapon, there is a good chance he would have been shot!” Round Rock police responded to eight fake gun calls within the past few weeks and there have been several toy guns recently confiscated from students who brought them to school.
a. Round Rock Police are warning central Texans about dangerous trends they are seeing when it comes to toy guns. “Many times, you can’t tell which gun is real, and which one is a toy. Toy guns can be fatal attractions”, the local news sited. (Feb. 15-2006).
21. On February 4, 2006, in Salinas, California, a freshman at North Salinas High School, was arrested and suspended indefinitely, for bringing a realistic looking toy gun, resembling a 9 mm, to school.
22. On January 19, 2006, in Valley Glen, California, a fourth-grader was shot in the chest while at recess at Kittredge Street Elementary School, by a plastic pellet fired by an Airsoft pistol, shot by a 16-year old in an apartment across from school.
23. On January 13, 2006, in Longwood, Florida, a 15-year-old, Christopher Penley, who was an eighth grader, was shot and killed by police officers for brandishing a pellet gun that closely resembled to a 9 mm at Milwee Middle School. The pellet toy gun had been painted to appear to be a real firearm.
24. On December 25, 2005, in Los Angeles, California, a police officer shot a 43- year-old woman, Robin Hutching, and wounded her in the thigh, because she pointed a replica handgun at him.
25. On February 8, 2005, in Olympia, Washington (Thurston County), Daniel Cootsa accidently shot his 19-year-old friend, David Nelson, in the head, mistaking it for a replica pellet gun. The bullet passed through his skull. Although he survived, he lost sight in one eye, and hearing in one ear, among other serious injuries. The gun was given to their friend’s sister for protection! Daniel was sentenced and jailed later.
26. In February of 2004, a 14-year-old boy in Lakewood, California, was shot and wounded after Sheriff’s Deputies mistakenly thought an Airsoft pellet handgun in the boy’s waistband was real.
27. On January 2, 2003, in Brooklyn, New York, police shot and killed a 17-year-old, Allen Newsome, after he pulled a pellet gun on a detective dressed as a delivery man.
28. On October 4, 2002, in Carson, California, a sheriff’s deputy shot and wounded a man who had a toy gun that looked real, even though the toy gun had an orange tip, according to a witness.
29. On August 19, 2002, in New Haven, Connecticut, Edgar Ayala, a 9-year-old boy, was shot and killed by his 10-year-old friend, with a .38-caliber revolver, and a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson, belonging to his 26-year-old stepfather. The boy said he thought the gun was a fake gun. His mother said that after the shooting, his son burst into the bedroom yelling, “Mommy, I didn’t mean it” and” I thought it was fake, Mommy, I am sorry,” over and over again.
30. In August 2002, in Brooklyn, New York, a man was fatally shot by a police officer, for wielding something which turned out to be a toy hand gun.
31. In 2002, in New Jersey, 14-year-old twin girls held up and robbed a bank, with an air pellet toy gun.
32. In 2002, in Whitmore Lake, Michigan, Tommy Davis, a 7-year-old boy, faced three counts of felony assault charges for pointing a toy gun at three other youngsters and threatening to shoot them.
33. On March 13, 2002, a BB gun shooting at Slidell Junior High School caused five students, ages 13 and 14, to be shot and injured, and two teenage shooters to be booked.
34. On May 31, 2001, in Georgia, a man was almost shot by North Augusta Police Officers, for pointing a toy pellet gun at motorists from his car. He was arrested and jailed later.
35. On May 5, 2001, in Huntington Beach, California, an 18-year-old, Antonio Salvidar, was shot and killed by a police officer, while the police mistook his toy rifle for a real gun.
36. On November 20, 2000, in Charlotte, North Carolina, the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport had to shut down flight operation for two hours when the scanner spotted a gun which turned out to be a young boy’s metal toy gun. More than 100 flights were delayed and many missed their connections for the Thanksgiving holidays.
37. On November 6, 2000, in Portland, Oregon, a 3-year-old boy shot his 25-year old father, Jonathan Davis Christian, when he mistook his father’s loaded .38-caliber revolver for a toy gun. His father left it on the kitchen table just for a few seconds while he went to go get the key to lock the gun’s trigger.
38. On October 28, 2000, a Los Angeles Police Officer, responding to a loud Halloween costume party at a mansion in Beverly Hills, California, shot and killed 39-year old Anthony Dwain Lee (“Liar, Liar,” “ER,” and “NYPD Blue”). Lee was inside enjoying the party when he was killed. The officer that shot him thought he had a .357 magnum semi-automatic, when in fact it was a rubber toy gun.
39. On May 4, 2000, Santa Rosa police shot and killed a 37-year-old, Eugene Dieterle, in Santa Rosa Junior College when he pointed a black handgun, which turned out to be a plastic toy gun, painted in black.
40. On April 10, 2000, in Sonoma County, California, Sheriff Deputies fatally shot 31-year-old, Erin MacDonald, at his home. Sheriff Deputies said that he was wielding a gun, which turned out to be a fake toy gun!!
41. On March 31, 2000, in Brooklyn, New York, two teenagers, 19-year-old Tysheen Bourne, and 17-year-old Andre Fields, were fatally shot by two undercover Narcotics detectives while brandishing toy handguns.
42. On November 10, 1999, in Monterey Park, California, a 13-year-old boy was shot twice on his upper left arm by an undercover cop because the boy had a toy gun resembling a real gun.
43. On April 13, 1999, in Hartford, Connecticut, Aquan Salmon, a 14-year-old boy was fatally shot to death by a Hartford Police Officer, in which the police claimed the boy was reaching for a weapon. No gun was found, but the police said they found two gun-shaped cigarette lighters.
44. On September 6, 1998, in Fort Myers, Florida, a 12-year-old boy, Ronald L. Harris, was arrested for pointing a toy gun at a man while demanding money.
45. On August 23, 1998, Michael Jones, a 16-year old boy, was shot 17 times and critically wounded by two police officers in Brooklyn, New York while riding a bicycle because he had a water gun that looked like a 9mm MP5 submachine gun.
46. In August of 1998, an entire terminal of the Los Angeles International Airport was evacuated when a toy gun was mistaken for a real gun. Many flights were affected, and many passengers were delayed.
47. On August 6, 1998, in Pacoima, California, 23-year old Issac Alvarez was killed by his own gun when a 4-year old neighbor picked up the loaded rifle hidden under a bed and shot him in the back of his head. Police said the boy had stated that he thought it was a toy gun. Police said, “Toy rifles are out there. They play with toy rifles all the time. They are just like real guns.”
48. On June 1, 1998, in Gardena, California, a 9-year old girl found a loaded handgun mounted underneath a desk in a woman’s office. While playing with it, she shot and killed her 6-year old sister when she aimed it at her chest. She said she believed “it was a toy.” The two sisters were brought to the business by their mother’s boyfriend, who works there.
49. On April 3, 1998, a third grade boy took and displayed a small loaded antique 70-year-old real gun at Queen’s Elementary School. The Principal delayed notifying the police because he thought it was a toy gun, and did not think it could have created a real disaster.
50. On January 9, 1998, in Troy, Michigan (suburb of Detroit), police arrested a cross-dressing bank bobber who pointed, what looked like, a handgun at the bank teller. It turned out that the gun actually was a toy. He is the probable suspect linked to at least a dozen bank heists in the area.
51. On January 8, 1998 in Spokane, Washington, Lisa D., a 23-year-old woman, was arrested for robbing five banks for $5,500, with a toy gun.
52. On December 26, 1997, a father and his two sons, ages twelve and fourteen, were shot several times and injured by their neighbor, while the two brothers were playing in their backyard with the paint ball gun that the younger brother had received as a Christmas present the day before.
53. Another tragedy involving toy guns also occurred on November 5, 1997, when an explosion of a machine wrapping popping caps for toy guns and play hand grenades claimed the life of four innocent female workers (Juana Martinez Gonzalez, 33, Maria Valenzuela, 39, Gloria Jaramilo, 26) at the Imperial Toy Factory in Downtown Los Angeles. The explosion also injured about two dozen others and several were hospitalized.
54. Air guns are considered toys, but they have caused injuries and deaths, especially in boys 10 to 14 years old. A study conducted by researchers at the University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle, University of Cincinnati School of Medicine, Cincinnati, and Children’s Mercy Hospital, Kansas City, Missouri (published in “Pediatrics,” the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, Oct. 1997) reported that of 101 children hospitalized for air gun injuries, three died, fifteen were blinded permanently, twenty five suffered permanent visual loss, and half of those 101 needed surgery.
55. On June 21, 1997, an entire terminal at Los Angeles International Airport was evacuated, grounding at least 15 flights, when a cigarette lighter, shaped like a pistol, was mistaken for a real gun.
56. On March 1, 1997, a 6-year-old boy’s toy gun caused the evacuation of the San Jose International Airport, in California. More than 20 flights were affected.
57. On January 31, 1997, in Long Island, New York, Laurie Leitner, a 26-year-old woman, was shot in the chest and killed by a West Islip Police Officer because the police officer thought the gun that Laurie carried was real; but it turned out to be a toy.
58. In December 1995, police almost shot at a 10-year-old boy hiding in the bushes pointing a gun at them. The gun turned out to be a toy.
59. On November 4, 1995, in National City (South of San Diego), California, Johnny Angel Navarrete, an 18-year-old boy, was shot in front of his house after an argument with several youths. When he pulled a replica gun (a cigarette lighter) from his waistband that looked like a real gun, another youth pulled out his real gun, and shot him thinking the lighter was genuine. Johnny died two days later.
60. On Memorial Day, May 29, 1995, in Carson Park, California, Freddy Palacio, a 12-year-old, was shot twice by a Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Deputy who mistook the $2 toy gun for a .22 caliber pistol.
61. On Sunday, April 2, 1995, in the City of Torrance, California, 18-year-old Santiago Lopez Garcia was shot to death by the police because he had a cigarette lighter, which resembled a gun in his hand. (Ironically, this was the same day that we were collecting the toy guns, and educating the children about the danger of toy guns and real guns, in a park, only a few miles away).
62. On April 3, 1995, police almost shot at Robert Alvarez, a 28-year-old man, in East L.A., California, because he had a lighter in the shape of a semiautomatic pistol. He was arrested and charged with suspected brandishing of a firearm “on a public thoroughfare.”
63. In October of 1994, Nicholas Heyward Jr., a 13-year-old boy and straight-A student of Brooklyn, NY, was shot in the chest and killed by a police officer when he was playing with his toy gun.
64. Jamiel Johnson, a 16-year old boy, was shot and wounded on the same day, and in the same city as above, for the same reason.
65. In Montgomery, Alabama, a 7-year-old boy was shot by his own 9-year-old brother while playing with the gun they found in the glove compartment of their dad’s car. The boy died, even though this happened in a hospital parking lot.
66. In 1994, toy guns were reportedly used in 329 felonies in New York alone.
67. In 1993, in Las Vegas, Nevada, a 3-year-old girl found her father’s loaded revolver. Thinking it was a toy, she aimed, shot, and killed her pregnant mother who was asleep on the sofa. The mother died on the way to the hospital.
68. In 1991, a 3-year-old boy, in Northern California, was shot and killed by his grandfather while playing, mistakenly using his real gun, instead of his grandson’s toy gun.
69. In 1990, according to statistics from the U.S. Bureau of Justice, between January 1985 and September 1989, police departments nationwide reported confiscating 31,650 imitation guns during crime-related incidences.
70. Statistics from U.S. Bureau of Justice also show that in 1987, over 1400 toy guns were used in crimes in New York City alone. This is a sharp increase (80%) from four years earlier.
71. In 1987, Leonard Falcon, a 19-year-old boy from Rancho Cucamonga, California, was shot and killed by a San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Deputy, while playing with a laser tag gun, which resembled a real gun.
72. In 1987, a 12-year-old boy was shot and killed by a police officer in San Francisco, California. His toy gun was mistaken for real gun.
73. In 1983, a 5-year-old boy was shot and killed at his home, by an Orange County Police Officer because he was holding a toy gun.
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I did i got one from vietnam and one from the US from 3 years ago...
sorry magoo, please find some for me...
Here's the first one I found, happened last year
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/toddler-3-shoots-herself-after-thinking-hangun-was-wii-control/story-e6frf7jo-1225839064502
Even after this article, you don't think something should be done to change toy guns from looking so similar to real guns?
I think both this issue, and cops mistaking toy guns for real guns are both good reasons to make toy guns seem less gun-like and more toy-like
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Here's the first one I found, happened last year
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/toddler-3-shoots-herself-after-thinking-hangun-was-wii-control/story-e6frf7jo-1225839064502
Even after this article, you don't think something should be done to change toy guns from looking so similar to real guns?
I think both this issue, and cops mistaking toy guns for real guns are both good reasons to make toy guns seem less gun-like and more toy-like
NOPE sorry the parents should be charged with this...why does a 3 year old have access to a real gun?
so you have one incident from last year?
I can produce millions where kids had toy guns and didnt shoot anyone with a real gun mistakenly b/c they thought it was fake...
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NOPE sorry the parents should be charged with this...why does a 3 year old have access to a real gun?
so you have one incident from last year?
I can produce millions where kids had toy guns and didnt shoot anyone with a real gun mistakenly b/c they thought it was fake...
If that Wii controller was designed differently, that could have prevented that 3 year old girl from dying. Nobody would have cried over wii controllers not resembling real guns. I don't understand your argument. Parents are not perfect. Yes they should be addressed, but saying that parent is responsible doesn't bring back that 3 year old. I think it is sadistic and immoral to sit back and to not only allow something like this to take place again, but to defend one of the most important causes of this. Your argument about numbers is stupid and pointless. "millions" is arbitrary. The whole idea of lets tally up alive and dead and then base our decision on that is nothing short of dangerous. Numbers are arbitrary as I have discussed already. How many more children do you think should die before you change your opinion? Toy guns should not resemble real guns. Toy guns should resemble toy guns, distinctly separate from the concept of real guns. I do not believe a good argument can be made in defense of giving children access to toy guns that resemble real guns.
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You also step right over the fact that the 3 year old was ABLE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON A REAL GUN!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://www.google.com/images?q=wii+gun&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIE_en&oi=image_result_group&sa=X
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http://www.google.com/images?q=wii+gun&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us%3AIE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIE_en&oi=image_result_group&sa=X
DAMN IT, i deleted my post trying to add my link to a google search...
yea i saw those, too some look realistic some dont...
main focus of that story shouldnt be the wii gun it should be the fact A 3 YEAR OLD WAS ABLE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON A REAL GUN!!!
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You also step right over the fact that the 3 year old was ABLE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON A REAL GUN!!!!!!!!!!!
That is another part of the problem. Yes that is a part of the problem as well and it needs to be addressed, as well as the issue of toy guns resembling real guns. For example, in number 29 in that list that Blacken posted, the boy that shot said "I thought it was fake". That entails that there are other sides to the issue. Not only the fact the boy got hold of a real gun, but also that the boy thought the real gun was a fake one, which is linked to the reality that toy guns are made to look like real guns, which is completely unnecessary yet produces incidences such as these.
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from the biological father..."Cheyenne was taken from me and everyone that knew her and those who would have known her simply because someone was irresponsible and there was a lack of supervision."
seems he is blaming the person who let her get a real gun in her hands...
"Cheyenne shot herself in the stomach with the .380 caliber, semi-automatic weapon after finding it lying on a table in the living room."
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That is another part of the problem. Yes that is a part of the problem as well and it needs to be addressed, as well as the issue of toy guns resembling real guns. For example, in number 29 in that list that Blacken posted, the boy that shot said "I thought it was fake". That entails that there are other sides to the issue. Not only the fact the boy got hold of a real gun, but also that the boy thought the real gun was a fake one, which is linked to the reality that toy guns are made to look like real guns, which is completely unnecessary yet produces incidences such as these.
blacken posted a link to pictures...
there are millions of incidents just like this magoo where kids can tell the difference...
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FACT SHEET ABOUT TOY GUNS
Toy weapons are increasingly being used to commit real crimes, and more children are being killed when a toy gun is mistaken for a real gun, or a real gun for a toy. Consider the following alarming facts about toy guns, crimes, and children/youth being killed:
1. On May 5, 2008, in Southaven, Mississippi, five elementary school students were suspended for bringing two realistic looking toy guns (pellet guns) to school. The toy guns’ orange safety tips were painted black.
2. On February 6, 2008, in Okaloosa County, Florida, the Niceville Police Department responded to a drive-by BB gun shooting which caused injury to the eye of a young innocent bystander.
3. On January 6, 2008, in Belleville, Illinois, a 39-year-old man was shot by police when the man pulled out a gray toy pistol, which looked real, from his waistband.
4. On October 26, 2007, in San Diego, California, a gun scare caused the lockdown at Juan Diego School. The gun turned out to be a toy gun (Air soft replica of Berretta 92).
5. On October 5, 2007, in Bakersfield, California, a 49-year-old man, Frank Ramos Sr. was fatally shot and killed by two Bakersfield police officers because he was holding a gun while standing in the street. The gun turned out to be an imitation toy firearm.
6. On June 22, 2007, in West Memphis, Arkansas, a 12-year-old boy, De Aunta Farrow, was shot and killed by a Memphis police officer because he was holding a toy gun in his hand, and the police officer said it looked real.
7. On April 8, 2007, in Mount Vernon, New York, a 13-year-old boy was arrested by the police when he tried to rob a Chinese restaurant, with what police said was something that looked like a 38-caliber hand gun. The gun turned out to be a plastic Airsoft toy gun. The police officer said he was worried that these kids can get shot for nothing.
8. On March 29, 2007, in Salt Lake City, Utah, four teenagers were arrested by a West Valley Police Officer, for a drive- by shooting, with a toy gun.
9. On March 22, 2007, in Little Rock, Arkansas, a 12-year-old boy was shot and killed by a police officer. The child’s silver toy gun was mistaken by the police for a real handgun.
10. On February 24, 2007, in Brooklyn, New York, Sean ”Light” Anderson, a 27-year-old, caused a real gun fight, when getting into a car with what appeared to be an AK-47 machine gun. The cops fired several shots, but miraculously nobody was struck. Turned out, the gun was a fake. A shocked witness said: “[The cops] running and shooting down the block where there could have been innocent bystanders.”
11. In February 2007, in New Jersey, a teenager robbed a man for his Cocker Spaniel with an Airsoft gun, which looked like a .45-caliber handgun. Police are concerned about mistaking the toy gun for the real gun, and these could result in tragedies.
12. On February 12, 2007, in San Diego, California, Noe Rojas, a 17-year-old teenager, was shot and killed, by an 11 year veteran police officer, for having a toy gun, which resembled a .38 caliber revolver, during a traffic stop.
13. On November 26, 2006, in St. Louis, Missouri, police shot and wounded a 13-year-old boy in the hip, leg, and arm because officers said that the boy reached into his waist band, and pointed a toy revolver, which looked authentic, at them.
14. On November 24, 2006, in Miami, Florida, Jose Varela, a 50-year-old freelance cartoonist, caused an at least two hour standoff at the Miami Harold’s Tribune building for carrying and pointing a realistic looking black plastic toy gun, resembling a semiautomatic weapon at people. He was later arrested, and jailed.
15. On July 25, 2006, in Ontario, California, a 15-year-old boy was shot and wounded when he pulled out and pointed, what appeared to be a .44-caliber magnum handgun, at some people. The gun turned out to be an Airsoft replica toy gun, which shoots rubber or plastic pellets. The toy gun had the orange tip, but the police said that the orange tip was not visible!!
16. On May 1, 2006, in West Valley City, Utah, a 10-year-old boy, a fourth-grade elementary school student, was suspended and booked into a juvenile detention facility for taking a plastic pellet-firing Airsoft pistol to school, and for shooting at least 13 classmates.
17. On March 7, 2006, in Newark, New Jersey, a 32-year-old man was fatally shot by the police officers for brandishing a gun that appeared to be a chrome semi-automatic pistol. The man had a history of mental illness, and the gun turned out to be a toy gun purchased from an ice cream man. This was the first police shooting in Newark in 12 years.
18. On July 7, 2006, in Cleveland, Ohio, a 55-year-old, James Nugent, got shot by a toy BB gun in the lower back by two Ohio State University students/ basketball players.
19. On February 20, 2006, a Sargent High School freshman got suspended for bringing a pellet-shooting toy gun into school, and shooting a female student in the leg.
20. On February 11, 2006, in Texas, Round Rock Police Officers had to draw weapons on two different teenagers on two different occasions for carrying toy weapons looking like a 45. Sgt. Ben Hall of the Round Rock Police Department said, “Had he pulled out a weapon, there is a good chance he would have been shot!” Round Rock police responded to eight fake gun calls within the past few weeks and there have been several toy guns recently confiscated from students who brought them to school.
a. Round Rock Police are warning central Texans about dangerous trends they are seeing when it comes to toy guns. “Many times, you can’t tell which gun is real, and which one is a toy. Toy guns can be fatal attractions”, the local news sited. (Feb. 15-2006).
21. On February 4, 2006, in Salinas, California, a freshman at North Salinas High School, was arrested and suspended indefinitely, for bringing a realistic looking toy gun, resembling a 9 mm, to school.
22. On January 19, 2006, in Valley Glen, California, a fourth-grader was shot in the chest while at recess at Kittredge Street Elementary School, by a plastic pellet fired by an Airsoft pistol, shot by a 16-year old in an apartment across from school.
23. On January 13, 2006, in Longwood, Florida, a 15-year-old, Christopher Penley, who was an eighth grader, was shot and killed by police officers for brandishing a pellet gun that closely resembled to a 9 mm at Milwee Middle School. The pellet toy gun had been painted to appear to be a real firearm.
24. On December 25, 2005, in Los Angeles, California, a police officer shot a 43- year-old woman, Robin Hutching, and wounded her in the thigh, because she pointed a replica handgun at him.
25. On February 8, 2005, in Olympia, Washington (Thurston County), Daniel Cootsa accidently shot his 19-year-old friend, David Nelson, in the head, mistaking it for a replica pellet gun. The bullet passed through his skull. Although he survived, he lost sight in one eye, and hearing in one ear, among other serious injuries. The gun was given to their friend’s sister for protection! Daniel was sentenced and jailed later.
26. In February of 2004, a 14-year-old boy in Lakewood, California, was shot and wounded after Sheriff’s Deputies mistakenly thought an Airsoft pellet handgun in the boy’s waistband was real.
27. On January 2, 2003, in Brooklyn, New York, police shot and killed a 17-year-old, Allen Newsome, after he pulled a pellet gun on a detective dressed as a delivery man.
28. On October 4, 2002, in Carson, California, a sheriff’s deputy shot and wounded a man who had a toy gun that looked real, even though the toy gun had an orange tip, according to a witness.
29. On August 19, 2002, in New Haven, Connecticut, Edgar Ayala, a 9-year-old boy, was shot and killed by his 10-year-old friend, with a .38-caliber revolver, and a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson, belonging to his 26-year-old stepfather. The boy said he thought the gun was a fake gun. His mother said that after the shooting, his son burst into the bedroom yelling, “Mommy, I didn’t mean it” and” I thought it was fake, Mommy, I am sorry,” over and over again.
30. In August 2002, in Brooklyn, New York, a man was fatally shot by a police officer, for wielding something which turned out to be a toy hand gun.
31. In 2002, in New Jersey, 14-year-old twin girls held up and robbed a bank, with an air pellet toy gun.
32. In 2002, in Whitmore Lake, Michigan, Tommy Davis, a 7-year-old boy, faced three counts of felony assault charges for pointing a toy gun at three other youngsters and threatening to shoot them.
33. On March 13, 2002, a BB gun shooting at Slidell Junior High School caused five students, ages 13 and 14, to be shot and injured, and two teenage shooters to be booked.
34. On May 31, 2001, in Georgia, a man was almost shot by North Augusta Police Officers, for pointing a toy pellet gun at motorists from his car. He was arrested and jailed later.
35. On May 5, 2001, in Huntington Beach, California, an 18-year-old, Antonio Salvidar, was shot and killed by a police officer, while the police mistook his toy rifle for a real gun.
36. On November 20, 2000, in Charlotte, North Carolina, the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport had to shut down flight operation for two hours when the scanner spotted a gun which turned out to be a young boy’s metal toy gun. More than 100 flights were delayed and many missed their connections for the Thanksgiving holidays.
37. On November 6, 2000, in Portland, Oregon, a 3-year-old boy shot his 25-year old father, Jonathan Davis Christian, when he mistook his father’s loaded .38-caliber revolver for a toy gun. His father left it on the kitchen table just for a few seconds while he went to go get the key to lock the gun’s trigger.
38. On October 28, 2000, a Los Angeles Police Officer, responding to a loud Halloween costume party at a mansion in Beverly Hills, California, shot and killed 39-year old Anthony Dwain Lee (“Liar, Liar,” “ER,” and “NYPD Blue”). Lee was inside enjoying the party when he was killed. The officer that shot him thought he had a .357 magnum semi-automatic, when in fact it was a rubber toy gun.
39. On May 4, 2000, Santa Rosa police shot and killed a 37-year-old, Eugene Dieterle, in Santa Rosa Junior College when he pointed a black handgun, which turned out to be a plastic toy gun, painted in black.
40. On April 10, 2000, in Sonoma County, California, Sheriff Deputies fatally shot 31-year-old, Erin MacDonald, at his home. Sheriff Deputies said that he was wielding a gun, which turned out to be a fake toy gun!!
41. On March 31, 2000, in Brooklyn, New York, two teenagers, 19-year-old Tysheen Bourne, and 17-year-old Andre Fields, were fatally shot by two undercover Narcotics detectives while brandishing toy handguns.
42. On November 10, 1999, in Monterey Park, California, a 13-year-old boy was shot twice on his upper left arm by an undercover cop because the boy had a toy gun resembling a real gun.
43. On April 13, 1999, in Hartford, Connecticut, Aquan Salmon, a 14-year-old boy was fatally shot to death by a Hartford Police Officer, in which the police claimed the boy was reaching for a weapon. No gun was found, but the police said they found two gun-shaped cigarette lighters.
44. On September 6, 1998, in Fort Myers, Florida, a 12-year-old boy, Ronald L. Harris, was arrested for pointing a toy gun at a man while demanding money.
45. On August 23, 1998, Michael Jones, a 16-year old boy, was shot 17 times and critically wounded by two police officers in Brooklyn, New York while riding a bicycle because he had a water gun that looked like a 9mm MP5 submachine gun.
46. In August of 1998, an entire terminal of the Los Angeles International Airport was evacuated when a toy gun was mistaken for a real gun. Many flights were affected, and many passengers were delayed.
47. On August 6, 1998, in Pacoima, California, 23-year old Issac Alvarez was killed by his own gun when a 4-year old neighbor picked up the loaded rifle hidden under a bed and shot him in the back of his head. Police said the boy had stated that he thought it was a toy gun. Police said, “Toy rifles are out there. They play with toy rifles all the time. They are just like real guns.”
48. On June 1, 1998, in Gardena, California, a 9-year old girl found a loaded handgun mounted underneath a desk in a woman’s office. While playing with it, she shot and killed her 6-year old sister when she aimed it at her chest. She said she believed “it was a toy.” The two sisters were brought to the business by their mother’s boyfriend, who works there.
49. On April 3, 1998, a third grade boy took and displayed a small loaded antique 70-year-old real gun at Queen’s Elementary School. The Principal delayed notifying the police because he thought it was a toy gun, and did not think it could have created a real disaster.
50. On January 9, 1998, in Troy, Michigan (suburb of Detroit), police arrested a cross-dressing bank bobber who pointed, what looked like, a handgun at the bank teller. It turned out that the gun actually was a toy. He is the probable suspect linked to at least a dozen bank heists in the area.
51. On January 8, 1998 in Spokane, Washington, Lisa D., a 23-year-old woman, was arrested for robbing five banks for $5,500, with a toy gun.
52. On December 26, 1997, a father and his two sons, ages twelve and fourteen, were shot several times and injured by their neighbor, while the two brothers were playing in their backyard with the paint ball gun that the younger brother had received as a Christmas present the day before.
53. Another tragedy involving toy guns also occurred on November 5, 1997, when an explosion of a machine wrapping popping caps for toy guns and play hand grenades claimed the life of four innocent female workers (Juana Martinez Gonzalez, 33, Maria Valenzuela, 39, Gloria Jaramilo, 26) at the Imperial Toy Factory in Downtown Los Angeles. The explosion also injured about two dozen others and several were hospitalized.
54. Air guns are considered toys, but they have caused injuries and deaths, especially in boys 10 to 14 years old. A study conducted by researchers at the University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle, University of Cincinnati School of Medicine, Cincinnati, and Children’s Mercy Hospital, Kansas City, Missouri (published in “Pediatrics,” the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, Oct. 1997) reported that of 101 children hospitalized for air gun injuries, three died, fifteen were blinded permanently, twenty five suffered permanent visual loss, and half of those 101 needed surgery.
55. On June 21, 1997, an entire terminal at Los Angeles International Airport was evacuated, grounding at least 15 flights, when a cigarette lighter, shaped like a pistol, was mistaken for a real gun.
56. On March 1, 1997, a 6-year-old boy’s toy gun caused the evacuation of the San Jose International Airport, in California. More than 20 flights were affected.
57. On January 31, 1997, in Long Island, New York, Laurie Leitner, a 26-year-old woman, was shot in the chest and killed by a West Islip Police Officer because the police officer thought the gun that Laurie carried was real; but it turned out to be a toy.
58. In December 1995, police almost shot at a 10-year-old boy hiding in the bushes pointing a gun at them. The gun turned out to be a toy.
59. On November 4, 1995, in National City (South of San Diego), California, Johnny Angel Navarrete, an 18-year-old boy, was shot in front of his house after an argument with several youths. When he pulled a replica gun (a cigarette lighter) from his waistband that looked like a real gun, another youth pulled out his real gun, and shot him thinking the lighter was genuine. Johnny died two days later.
60. On Memorial Day, May 29, 1995, in Carson Park, California, Freddy Palacio, a 12-year-old, was shot twice by a Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Deputy who mistook the $2 toy gun for a .22 caliber pistol.
61. On Sunday, April 2, 1995, in the City of Torrance, California, 18-year-old Santiago Lopez Garcia was shot to death by the police because he had a cigarette lighter, which resembled a gun in his hand. (Ironically, this was the same day that we were collecting the toy guns, and educating the children about the danger of toy guns and real guns, in a park, only a few miles away).
62. On April 3, 1995, police almost shot at Robert Alvarez, a 28-year-old man, in East L.A., California, because he had a lighter in the shape of a semiautomatic pistol. He was arrested and charged with suspected brandishing of a firearm “on a public thoroughfare.”
63. In October of 1994, Nicholas Heyward Jr., a 13-year-old boy and straight-A student of Brooklyn, NY, was shot in the chest and killed by a police officer when he was playing with his toy gun.
64. Jamiel Johnson, a 16-year old boy, was shot and wounded on the same day, and in the same city as above, for the same reason.
65. In Montgomery, Alabama, a 7-year-old boy was shot by his own 9-year-old brother while playing with the gun they found in the glove compartment of their dad’s car. The boy died, even though this happened in a hospital parking lot.
66. In 1994, toy guns were reportedly used in 329 felonies in New York alone.
67. In 1993, in Las Vegas, Nevada, a 3-year-old girl found her father’s loaded revolver. Thinking it was a toy, she aimed, shot, and killed her pregnant mother who was asleep on the sofa. The mother died on the way to the hospital.
68. In 1991, a 3-year-old boy, in Northern California, was shot and killed by his grandfather while playing, mistakenly using his real gun, instead of his grandson’s toy gun.
69. In 1990, according to statistics from the U.S. Bureau of Justice, between January 1985 and September 1989, police departments nationwide reported confiscating 31,650 imitation guns during crime-related incidences.
70. Statistics from U.S. Bureau of Justice also show that in 1987, over 1400 toy guns were used in crimes in New York City alone. This is a sharp increase (80%) from four years earlier.
71. In 1987, Leonard Falcon, a 19-year-old boy from Rancho Cucamonga, California, was shot and killed by a San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Deputy, while playing with a laser tag gun, which resembled a real gun.
72. In 1987, a 12-year-old boy was shot and killed by a police officer in San Francisco, California. His toy gun was mistaken for real gun.
73. In 1983, a 5-year-old boy was shot and killed at his home, by an Orange County Police Officer because he was holding a toy gun.
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blacken posted a link to pictures...
there are millions of incidents just like this magoo where kids can tell the difference...
I was referring to reply #78 where Blacken posted a link of unnecessary incidences where toy guns were involved in someone being harmed because of their similarity to real guns.
Once again: Millions of incidents without a dead child does not erase the dead child. The dead child is still very important.
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What about star wars sabers akin to swords.
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I was referring to reply #78 where Blacken posted a link of unnecessary incidences where toy guns were involved in someone being harmed because of their similarity to real guns.
Once again: Millions of incidents without a dead child does not erase the dead child. The dead child is still very important.
he just reposted it for us, LOL ok so from 2002?
LOL sorry bro this isnt a problem, the idiots that allow kids to get their hands on guns at a young age are...
a few ppl shouldnt ruin it for everyone else and YES ITS ONLY A FEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
your bringing up incidents from 2002 to validate that it happens alot!!!!!!
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he just reposted it for us, LOL ok so from 2002?
LOL sorry bro this isnt a problem, the idiots that allow kids to get their hands on guns at a young age are...
a few ppl shouldnt ruin it for everyone else and YES ITS ONLY A FEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
your bringing up incidents from 2002 to validate that it happens alot!!!!!!
I dont understand why you think millions of children need to die before there needs to be a policy change. The article isn't up to date because nobody has updated it, not because there hasn't been any more situations since 2008. What if 100 children died tomorrow because other children mistook the real gun for a fake gun? Would you still say it's not important because "millions" go without getting killed? What about 1,000 children, what about 100,000? Once again, numbers are meaningless. One child dying from now until 2020 because he or she thought a real gun was a fake one because fake ones are made to look like real ones is one child too many. You're exclamation marks aren't helping your argument that not enough children are dead and not enough parents are grieving for you to personally think that maybe toy guns should be made to look like toys.
Please tell me why you think it is so crucial for toy guns to be designed like real guns? Despite clear evidence that sometimes children mistake real ones for fake ones. Please elaborate what you mean when you say "ruin it for everyone else". How is a toy gun looking more like a toy ruining joy or pleasure in children to such a degree that it is worth a few dead children in order to sustain that joy or pleasure.
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I dont understand why you think millions of children need to die before there needs to be a policy change. The article isn't up to date because nobody has updated it, not because there hasn't been any more situations since 2008. What if 100 children died tomorrow because other children mistook the real gun for a fake gun? Would you still say it's not important because "millions" go without getting killed? What about 1,000 children, what about 100,000? Once again, numbers are meaningless. One child dying from now until 2020 because he or she thought a real gun was a fake one because fake ones are made to look like real ones is one child too many. You're exclamation marks aren't helping your argument that not enough children are dead and not enough parents are grieving for you to personally think that maybe toy guns should be made to look like toys.
Please tell me why you think it is so crucial for toy guns to be designed like real guns? Despite clear evidence that sometimes children mistake real ones for fake ones. Please elaborate what you mean when you say "ruin it for everyone else". How is a toy gun looking more like a toy ruining joy or pleasure in children to such a degree that it is worth a few dead children in order to sustain that joy or pleasure.
I dont think millions need to die, but a handful which is all youve produced isnt sufficient to change the what EVERYONE else does ESPECIALLY when there is a way to prevent those incidents that dont require taking away toy guns...
b/c it adds to the experience...toy cars are made to resemble real cars b/c it adds to the experience...
you would take away all toy guns if you could, isnt that ruining it for everyone?
why should ppl who prefer their toy guns to resemble real guns in design and not color have to suffer b/c idiots let 3 year olds play with real guns?
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I dont think millions need to die, but a handful which is all youve produced isnt sufficient to change the what EVERYONE else does ESPECIALLY when there is a way to prevent those incidents that dont require taking away toy guns...
b/c it adds to the experience...toy cars are made to resemble real cars b/c it adds to the experience...
you would take away all toy guns if you could, isnt that ruining it for everyone?
why should ppl who prefer their toy guns to resemble real guns in design and not color have to suffer b/c idiots let 3 year olds play with real guns?
Yes a handful is sufficient to change. Every life deserves to live, despite what other lives do. And the policy change wont affect "everyone", it will affect children that probably won't have any less fun with toyish guns than they would with real looking guns. The way that you advocate preventing those deaths (making parents better parents) is a great idea but I think we can both agree it probably won't work to the degree that is needed. I disagree that the "experience" of pretending to shoot people with a real gun overrides the possible dangers associated with that experience. It is not ruining it for everyone because children can still have just as much fun with toyish guns. In response to your last line, I don't think any children will tell me that they prefer real looking guns to fake looking guns. I think they'll have fun with whatever is available.
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You also step right over the fact that the 3 year old was ABLE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON A REAL GUN!!!!!!!!!!!
Indeed - this whole argument is ludicrous.
Kid gets hold of real gun & shoots someone.
Is the problem resolved by:
a) Banning toy guns
or
b) Not leaving real guns lying around where kids can get them
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Yes a handful is sufficient to change. Every life deserves to live, despite what other lives do. And the policy change wont affect "everyone", it will affect children that probably won't have any less fun with toyish guns than they would with real looking guns. The way that you advocate preventing those deaths (making parents better parents) is a great idea but I think we can both agree it probably won't work to the degree that is needed. I disagree that the "experience" of pretending to shoot people with a real gun overrides the possible dangers associated with that experience. It is not ruining it for everyone because children can still have just as much fun with toyish guns. In response to your last line, I don't think any children will tell me that they prefer real looking guns to fake looking guns. I think they'll have fun with whatever is available.
sorry no, a HANDFUL and again THATS ALL YOU HAVE isnt sufficient enough to change what EVERYONE else does...
LOL are you serious??? lol kids certainly prefer realistic looking toys as opposed to fantasy looking ones!!!
fuking really??? why do you think big wheels look like hummers and corvettes and not some fantasy concept car? LOL
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Indeed - this whole argument is ludicrous.
Kid gets hold of real gun & shoots someone.
Is the problem resolved by:
a) Banning toy guns
or
b) Not leaving real guns lying around where kids can get them
Both. A can be enforced. B is partly left up to chance (since most Americans do in fact own guns). But you didn't state the full problem. It isn't just that they got hold of a real gun, it's that they got hold of a real gun with the prior experience of being exposed to similar looking and designed toy guns.
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Both. A can be enforced. B is partly left up to chance (since most Americans do in fact own guns). But you didn't state the full problem. It isn't just that they got hold of a real gun, it's that they got hold of a real gun with the prior experience of being exposed to similar looking and designed toy guns.
B is very easily enforced you punish the parents and they will not let it happen...
also magoo there will still be deaths involving kids that get there hands on real guns even if there were never any fake guns...
how do you deal with that?
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Reality is that there will always be acvcidents, whether its drownings, stabbings, strangulations, car aCcidents, playground accidents, football accidents, and freak accidents.
Focusing solely on toy guns ignores this reality.
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B is very easily enforced you punish the parents and they will not let it happen...
also magoo there will still be deaths involving kids that get there hands on real guns even if there were never any fake guns...
how do you deal with that?
B is not very easily enforced.
If one child is prevented from dying that would have died if there were fake guns, then it is worth it. Fake guns (that look like real guns) are not worth more than a life.
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Reality is that there will always be acvcidents, whether its drownings, stabbings, strangulations, car aCcidents, playground accidents, football accidents, and freak accidents.
Focusing solely on toy guns ignores this reality.
Focusing on toy guns doesnt ignore it. Focusing on toy guns may prevent deaths that are A) Easily preventable B)Can be easily prevented without a high cost
If you think it is important to prevent unnecessary deaths (especially those involving children) then this issue is one, among many, that deserves to be looked at.
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B is not very easily enforced.
If one child is prevented from dying that would have died if there were fake guns, then it is worth it. Fake guns (that look like real guns) are not worth more than a life.
LOL you are the epitome of the term "bleeding heart" lmao
ok so lets jump out of the imaginary bubble youve set up and into reality...are you for banning any toy that may result in the death of a child?
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Both. A can be enforced. B is partly left up to chance (since most Americans do in fact own guns). But you didn't state the full problem. It isn't just that they got hold of a real gun, it's that they got hold of a real gun with the prior experience of being exposed to similar looking and designed toy guns.
No - you don't understand cause & effect. Or rather - you are assigning cause to an effect for emotive reasons.
Let's say an adult leaves a loaded gun lying around. Let's also say that a child picks the gun up. You say that the cause of the death that follows is the childs experience with toy guns. The problem us you have no proof that a child with no experience with toy guns wouldn't end up as dead. There is no research that I know of where people leave loaded guns around and record the deaths and correlate that to toy ownership. You have assigned a cause for emotive reasons only. There is one certainty, leaving a loaded gun where a child can access it CAN cause a fatality. I don't see how you can prove that such a scenario is made worse by toy guns.
Also - more children drown every year in swimming pools/ponds attached to houses than are killed by guns. Does this mean that swimming pools dhould also be banned,.
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I can't believe I still have to explain this. I do understand cause and effect, I understand that for a given situation involves a number of causes. I've taken several research methodology classes.
I'll type this out as plain as I can and then leave it at that.
Let's start here with the basic ideas that I hope you agree to:
1) Unnecessary pain and suffering is bad
2) If it is possible to prevent unnecessary pain and suffering without sacrificing something of similar moral worth, we ought, morally, to do it
Now lets look at this situation of Toy Guns (And only Toy guns because this thread is about toy guns)
3) Children dying from guns is bad
4) Some children die from guns due to the fact that they are exposed to toy guns designed to look like real guns (evidence given in the list provided by Blacken)(This is shown both by people shooting children because children have toy guns, or because some children think real guns are toy guns (at least two specific cases of this was given in this thread))
5) If it is possible to prevent any unnecessary pain and suffering due to the fact that toy guns are designed to look like real guns, without sacrificing anything of similar moral worth, we ought, morally, to prevent that unnecessary pain and suffering.
6) It is possible to make toy guns seem less gun like (by painting them bright colors and designing them differently)
7) The cost to do this is not similar in significant moral worth to that of any unnecessary pain or suffering
8 ) Therefore, toy guns should be made less gun like and more toy like to prevent any future unnecessary pain or suffering that may result from a toy gun being similar to a real gun
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LOL a hand full and YES THATS ALL YOU HAVE AT BEST IS A HAND FULL of ppl that die does not constitute changing what EVERYONE else does....
NOW lets jump out of your imaginary box and back into the real world magoo, do you agree with doing away with any toy that may result in the death of a child?
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LOL a hand full and YES THATS ALL YOU HAVE AT BEST IS A HAND FULL of ppl that die does not constitute changing what EVERYONE else does....
NOW lets jump out of your imaginary box and back into the real world magoo, do you agree with doing away with any toy that may result in the death of a child?
bump for an answer magooo
do you agree with doing away with any toy that may cause the death of a single child?
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bump for an answer magooo
do you agree with doing away with any toy that may cause the death of a single child?
This can be answered by understanding my last post, which is why I didn't answer. If I did answer, it would just be retyping about the last half of that post.
Also, take note of what was typed in line 6 of that post.