Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: IronMagazine.com on February 23, 2011, 11:34:00 AM
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The Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 has been approved and awaits President Obama's signature.
New Bill Seeks to Ban Consumer Access to Dietary Supplements
By William Faloon
A bill has been introduced to the Senate that would drive up the cost of dietary supplements and restrict your access to them. This bill seeks to give the FDA arbitrary control over what supplements you are allowed to have.
This bill proposes to squander tax revenue, while burdening the private sector with oppressive laws that will hinder scientific advances and increase costs. The net effect will be to take away your free access to dietary supplements.
Pharmaceutical interests are obviously behind this latest effort to legislatively force more Americans towards expensive prescription drugs and away from natural ways of preventing degenerative disease.
Please use our convenient legislative action center to e-mail your Senators and Representatives to protest against this dangerous piece of legislation.
(Note: This communication is not an attack on any elected official. Many Senators would have been deceived by pharmaceutical lobbyists, as you will soon read.)
The bill represents the kind of federal regulation that is not only ineffective, but also suffocates innovation in ways that inflict permanent damage to this nation’s economic vitality.
The bill supposedly originates from the controversy surrounding the use of steroids by Major League Baseball players. Since some unethical companies illegally sold steroid drugs as “dietary supplements,” certain members of the Senate appear to have been deceived into believing that the FDA needs to be given additional power to ban dietary supplements across the board.
The fact is that the FDA has all the legal authority it needs to remove supplements that contain illegal drugs from the market. The FDA has failed to do its job, and there are companies selling dietary supplements that contain prescription drugs. If the FDA continues to fail to do its job, then these companies will continue to sell drug-tainted supplements no matter what new laws are created by Congress.
The outrage over this bill expressed by so many supplement consumers is that it gives the FDA broad and arbitrary new powers to remove natural products from the marketplace. Since the FDA (and Congress) is dominated by large pharmaceutical interests, this bill will effectively enable drug companies to control which supplements you have access to.
You may recall the FDA’s ban last year of a more effective form of vitamin B6 (pyridoxamine) because a pharmaceutical company wants to have it approved as an expensive new prescription drug to treat diabetic kidney failure.
If this bill is passed, it will make it far easier for pharmaceutical companies to file use patents on what are now inexpensive dietary supplements and convert them into outrageously priced “drugs.” Just look at the cost of prescription drug fish oil that so many cardiologists are prescribing to their patients. It costs about seven times more than the same amount of EPA/DHA fish oil you can buy as a dietary supplement. Just imagine if the FDA was given arbitrary power to ban omega-3 dietary supplements!
In order to mislead the public about the true nature of this bill, it has been named the Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 (DSSA). It purports to protect consumers, but the question arises, from what?
According to a published report by the American Association of Poison Control Centers, no one died in the year 2008 as a result of taking a dietary supplement.1 The facts are that legitimate reports of deaths caused by dietary supplements in this century are virtually non-existent.
Despite this safety track record, this bill would give the FDA authority to draw up a list of allowed and disallowed supplements (and supplement potencies). This alone would destroy your free access to supplements. But there is more.
There is no real world rationale for this legislation. Yet this bill would automatically cause any dietary supplement to be classified as “adulterated” if it is “manufactured, packaged, held, distributed, labeled or licensed by a dietary supplement company not registered with the Secretary.” The “Secretary” in this case is the Secretary of Health and Human Services, the department of the federal government that oversees the FDA.
The registration requirements would add layers of overhead costs to manufacturers who are already fully compliant with current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP) and are inspected by the FDA. It would also create an entire new category of taxpayer-funded bureaucrats who would oversee this hideous expansion of federal control over dietary supplement access.
The registration process would require paperwork to be submitted to the federal government for every new formulation, re-formulation, new ingredient, etc. The effect will be to take what are now low-cost natural supplements and force the paperwork requirements to be more closely aligned with those of unaffordable prescription drugs.
These burdensome registration requirements also mandate voluminous paperwork submissions for new ingredients that give the FDA more power to DENY the “approval” of a natural ingredient. This clause of the bill would further reduce the availability of new dietary supplements coming to the market…effectively giving pharmaceutical companies a monopoly over what new health products you are allowed to use. Any new products that make it to market will carry the higher cost associated with complying with this bill’s new obstructive mandates.
The FDA already requires manufacturers to maintain records of serious adverse reaction reports. This bill would require that all “non-serious adverse events” be submitted to the federal government. The problem is that when a large group of people take any product, there are always coincidental adverse reactions. This means that for any given product, the FDA can arbitrarily take the list of adverse reports submitted to it and use it as a basis to remove the product, even if there was not a single valid adverse reaction! Once again, pharmaceutical companies would be able, under the Freedom of Information Act, to gain access to coincidental reports of adverse reactions and petition the FDA to REMOVE the supplement from the market. (There are of course millions of cases of serious adverse reactions—including many deaths—on file with the FDA about the drugs they approve, but of course these drugs are virtually never withdrawn from the marketplace by the FDA.)
The FDA already has broad powers to remove dangerous products. This legislation would enable the FDA to ban anything if they have only “reasonable probability” that there is a serious problem with a product. This kind of discretionary authority gives the FDA tyrannical power to ban supplements, a power they have not hesitated to use when they’ve had it.
Recall that in the early 1990s, the FDA declared that many of the supplements used today, including CoQ10, selenium, and chromium, were inherently dangerous. The public’s revolt against the FDA’s absurd proclamation led to passage of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994. This is the law that protects consumers’ rights to access low-cost dietary supplements. The Dietary Supplement Safety Act (DSSA) would largely eviscerate the protections afforded by DSHEA.
Just imagine owning a pharmaceutical company and hearing from physicians that patients are refusing to take your expensive side effect-prone drugs. Instead you learn they are switching to low-cost dietary supplements that you cannot patent.
Since you control a large percentage of Congress, the logical solution is to have legislation enacted that will enable the FDA (that you also control) to remove supplements that compete with your drugs. That is exactly what the Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 (DSSA) will accomplish if Big Pharma has its way.
The greatest economic challenge this country faces is how to deal with runaway disease care costs (they call it “health care” when it isn’t). What few understand is that there is no real medical cost crisis. Medical care is so expensive today because it has been so corruptly over-regulated. Disease care costs, in other words, are egregiously hyper-inflated compared to what their free market price would be.
FDA Failure, Deception and Abuse is the title of a new book that documents that disease care costs are a result of endless legislation passed by Congress that enables those in conventional medicine to earn obscene profits, while the nation’s economy collapses under the burden of outlandish prices for dangerous and minimally effective therapies.
The proposed Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 is an egregious example of how this kind of insidious legislation comes into being, and how the public is deceived into thinking that Congress is seeking to “protect” them (in this case from nothing), when the real purpose of the legislation is to further enrich the entrenched drug cartel that long ago bought and paid for most of Congress and the FDA.
The Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 is a blatant example of how Congress undermines free markets and decimates private sector innovation.
The encouraging news is that the numbers of dedicated supplement users are enormous.
As in the 1980s and 1990s, the majority of the public is strongly on our side. Your voice needs to be heard to usurp the predatory financial influence pharmaceutical companies wield over Congress.
1. Bronstein AC, Spyker DA, Cantilena LR Jr, Green JL, Rumack BH, Giffin SL. 2008 Annual Report of the American Association of Poison Control Centers' National Poison Data System (NPDS): 26th Annual Report. Clinical Toxicology. 2009. 47, 911-1084.
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I'm all for this...
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Are there still any prohormones around?
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as long as they dont ban porn Im ok
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Supplements are ineffective for muscular gaining and fat burning purpose!
You better eat a balanced whole food diet rich in protein and low in fat with plenty of fruit ,vegetable, lean cut meat and low glicemic index and fiber rich carbs if you want to improve your body.
I hope this bill pass and put the snake oil salesman out of business!
Next they should pass a bill that limit the drug presription by doctor and allow doctor presribe drugs to necessary case only, and remove most over the counter drugs too. BUT THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
Supplements are worthless but prescription drugs are dangerous and in this day and age 80% percent of the time drugs are not needed and are overprescribed in order to make rich pharmaceutical company and unscrupulous doctors.
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Good.
This will even the playing field in the IFBB pro ranks
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Good.
This will even the playing field in the IFBB pro ranks
for sure - the BB's using superdrol clone will now have to compete with the naturals.
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fuck this world.
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Stupid how they try to destroy a whole industry.
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Those prohormones are known to burn holes in the liver. I'd rather take 10 Abombs a day then some of that over the counter poison.
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I'm all for this...
you better read the bill because this is going to give the FDA ultimate power to ban anything they see fit including multiple vitamins, remember they banned vitamin B6 last year, imagine what they will be doing now!
this is the absolute worst thing that could happen, anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete ignorant moron.
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For the amount of damage that prohormones will do to your body, you might as well just inject real steroids.
"1"
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The Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 has been approved and awaits President Obama's signature.
New Bill Seeks to Ban Consumer Access to Dietary Supplements
By William Faloon
A bill has been introduced to the Senate that would drive up the cost of dietary supplements and restrict your access to them. This bill seeks to give the FDA arbitrary control over what supplements you are allowed to have.
This bill proposes to squander tax revenue, while burdening the private sector with oppressive laws that will hinder scientific advances and increase costs. The net effect will be to take away your free access to dietary supplements.
Pharmaceutical interests are obviously behind this latest effort to legislatively force more Americans towards expensive prescription drugs and away from natural ways of preventing degenerative disease.
Please use our convenient legislative action center to e-mail your Senators and Representatives to protest against this dangerous piece of legislation.
(Note: This communication is not an attack on any elected official. Many Senators would have been deceived by pharmaceutical lobbyists, as you will soon read.)
The bill represents the kind of federal regulation that is not only ineffective, but also suffocates innovation in ways that inflict permanent damage to this nation’s economic vitality.
The bill supposedly originates from the controversy surrounding the use of steroids by Major League Baseball players. Since some unethical companies illegally sold steroid drugs as “dietary supplements,” certain members of the Senate appear to have been deceived into believing that the FDA needs to be given additional power to ban dietary supplements across the board.
The fact is that the FDA has all the legal authority it needs to remove supplements that contain illegal drugs from the market. The FDA has failed to do its job, and there are companies selling dietary supplements that contain prescription drugs. If the FDA continues to fail to do its job, then these companies will continue to sell drug-tainted supplements no matter what new laws are created by Congress.
The outrage over this bill expressed by so many supplement consumers is that it gives the FDA broad and arbitrary new powers to remove natural products from the marketplace. Since the FDA (and Congress) is dominated by large pharmaceutical interests, this bill will effectively enable drug companies to control which supplements you have access to.
You may recall the FDA’s ban last year of a more effective form of vitamin B6 (pyridoxamine) because a pharmaceutical company wants to have it approved as an expensive new prescription drug to treat diabetic kidney failure.
If this bill is passed, it will make it far easier for pharmaceutical companies to file use patents on what are now inexpensive dietary supplements and convert them into outrageously priced “drugs.” Just look at the cost of prescription drug fish oil that so many cardiologists are prescribing to their patients. It costs about seven times more than the same amount of EPA/DHA fish oil you can buy as a dietary supplement. Just imagine if the FDA was given arbitrary power to ban omega-3 dietary supplements!
In order to mislead the public about the true nature of this bill, it has been named the Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 (DSSA). It purports to protect consumers, but the question arises, from what?
According to a published report by the American Association of Poison Control Centers, no one died in the year 2008 as a result of taking a dietary supplement.1 The facts are that legitimate reports of deaths caused by dietary supplements in this century are virtually non-existent.
Despite this safety track record, this bill would give the FDA authority to draw up a list of allowed and disallowed supplements (and supplement potencies). This alone would destroy your free access to supplements. But there is more.
There is no real world rationale for this legislation. Yet this bill would automatically cause any dietary supplement to be classified as “adulterated” if it is “manufactured, packaged, held, distributed, labeled or licensed by a dietary supplement company not registered with the Secretary.” The “Secretary” in this case is the Secretary of Health and Human Services, the department of the federal government that oversees the FDA.
The registration requirements would add layers of overhead costs to manufacturers who are already fully compliant with current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP) and are inspected by the FDA. It would also create an entire new category of taxpayer-funded bureaucrats who would oversee this hideous expansion of federal control over dietary supplement access.
The registration process would require paperwork to be submitted to the federal government for every new formulation, re-formulation, new ingredient, etc. The effect will be to take what are now low-cost natural supplements and force the paperwork requirements to be more closely aligned with those of unaffordable prescription drugs.
These burdensome registration requirements also mandate voluminous paperwork submissions for new ingredients that give the FDA more power to DENY the “approval” of a natural ingredient. This clause of the bill would further reduce the availability of new dietary supplements coming to the market…effectively giving pharmaceutical companies a monopoly over what new health products you are allowed to use. Any new products that make it to market will carry the higher cost associated with complying with this bill’s new obstructive mandates.
The FDA already requires manufacturers to maintain records of serious adverse reaction reports. This bill would require that all “non-serious adverse events” be submitted to the federal government. The problem is that when a large group of people take any product, there are always coincidental adverse reactions. This means that for any given product, the FDA can arbitrarily take the list of adverse reports submitted to it and use it as a basis to remove the product, even if there was not a single valid adverse reaction! Once again, pharmaceutical companies would be able, under the Freedom of Information Act, to gain access to coincidental reports of adverse reactions and petition the FDA to REMOVE the supplement from the market. (There are of course millions of cases of serious adverse reactions—including many deaths—on file with the FDA about the drugs they approve, but of course these drugs are virtually never withdrawn from the marketplace by the FDA.)
The FDA already has broad powers to remove dangerous products. This legislation would enable the FDA to ban anything if they have only “reasonable probability” that there is a serious problem with a product. This kind of discretionary authority gives the FDA tyrannical power to ban supplements, a power they have not hesitated to use when they’ve had it.
Recall that in the early 1990s, the FDA declared that many of the supplements used today, including CoQ10, selenium, and chromium, were inherently dangerous. The public’s revolt against the FDA’s absurd proclamation led to passage of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA) of 1994. This is the law that protects consumers’ rights to access low-cost dietary supplements. The Dietary Supplement Safety Act (DSSA) would largely eviscerate the protections afforded by DSHEA.
Just imagine owning a pharmaceutical company and hearing from physicians that patients are refusing to take your expensive side effect-prone drugs. Instead you learn they are switching to low-cost dietary supplements that you cannot patent.
Since you control a large percentage of Congress, the logical solution is to have legislation enacted that will enable the FDA (that you also control) to remove supplements that compete with your drugs. That is exactly what the Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 (DSSA) will accomplish if Big Pharma has its way.
The greatest economic challenge this country faces is how to deal with runaway disease care costs (they call it “health care” when it isn’t). What few understand is that there is no real medical cost crisis. Medical care is so expensive today because it has been so corruptly over-regulated. Disease care costs, in other words, are egregiously hyper-inflated compared to what their free market price would be.
FDA Failure, Deception and Abuse is the title of a new book that documents that disease care costs are a result of endless legislation passed by Congress that enables those in conventional medicine to earn obscene profits, while the nation’s economy collapses under the burden of outlandish prices for dangerous and minimally effective therapies.
The proposed Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 is an egregious example of how this kind of insidious legislation comes into being, and how the public is deceived into thinking that Congress is seeking to “protect” them (in this case from nothing), when the real purpose of the legislation is to further enrich the entrenched drug cartel that long ago bought and paid for most of Congress and the FDA.
The Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2010 is a blatant example of how Congress undermines free markets and decimates private sector innovation.
The encouraging news is that the numbers of dedicated supplement users are enormous.
As in the 1980s and 1990s, the majority of the public is strongly on our side. Your voice needs to be heard to usurp the predatory financial influence pharmaceutical companies wield over Congress.
1. Bronstein AC, Spyker DA, Cantilena LR Jr, Green JL, Rumack BH, Giffin SL. 2008 Annual Report of the American Association of Poison Control Centers' National Poison Data System (NPDS): 26th Annual Report. Clinical Toxicology. 2009. 47, 911-1084.
I hope Obama signs it. The prohormones that are out there are junk and do nothing for athletes except get them banned from sports. Its long overdue
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I hope Obama signs it. The prohormones that are out there are junk and do nothing for athletes except get them banned from sports. Its long overdue
Maybe you should read that first, you idiot.
Aren't you in the supplement business? They are killing YOUR industry.
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I hope Obama signs it. The prohormones that are out there are junk and do nothing for athletes except get them banned from sports. Its long overdue
How would Vissy feel if KY Jelly was banned?
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you better read the bill because this is going to give the FDA ultimate power to ban anything they see fit including multiple vitamins, remember they banned vitamin B6 last year, imagine what they will be doing now!
this is the absolute worst thing that could happen, anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete ignorant moron.
who use prohomornes?? we use testosterona trenbolona equipona masterona gh insulin nandrolone dianabolona anapolona and the such
we coiuldnt give a damn about those pro hormone,,it is and was shit to begin with ,,infact baning it is good,, go to any steroid boarding on the internet,, swiiming with people,,when they decide to put end to this thats when wart will begin but they are not dumb ,,it wil never end they just try to prevent you from growing bitch tits,,
go legit hormones or go home!
gh15 approved
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OKAY, FOR THE IDIOTS HERE THAT CAN ONLY SEEM TO READ THE TITLE OF A THREAD....
THIS AFFECTS ALL SUPPLEMENTS ON THE MARKET, NOT JUST PROHOMRONES, EVEN A FUCKING MULTIPLE VITAMIN!
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OKAY, FOR THE IDIOTS HERE THAT CAN ONLY SEEM TO READ THE TITLE OF A THREAD....
THIS AFFECTS ALL SUPPLEMENTS ON THE MARKET, NOT JUST PROHOMRONES, EVEN A FUCKING MULTIPLE VITAMIN!
Most multi-vitamins are just chalk. Regulation is long over due.
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why do you need multi vitamin?
eat food
get legit gh it is will give you all the multi anything you want,,
gh15 approved
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i dotn get this thing,,you tell me that you actualy take vitamin c and e and all that shit? why? have real food and gh steroid that will make sure evry bit of piece of vitamin you ever needed is being utelize by body,,dont you get that the franco columbo md book about 10k dose of vitamins a day was balonie to cover up for mega use of anavar haloestin and testosterona? comon now friends
gh15 approved
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OKAY, FOR THE IDIOTS HERE THAT CAN ONLY SEEM TO READ THE TITLE OF A THREAD....
THIS AFFECTS ALL SUPPLEMENTS ON THE MARKET, NOT JUST PROHOMRONES, EVEN A FUCKING MULTIPLE VITAMIN!
If it puts you out of business, then I'll accept a minor loss in revenue...... ;D
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why do you need multi vitamin?
eat food
get legit gh it is will give you all the multi anything you want,,
gh15 approved
It's not even the point if something is useless or not, the point is that the government should not be allowed to have control over all sorts of industries.
Next thing is you can get bananas only on prescription because they contain too much potassium. ::) ::)
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OKAY, FOR THE IDIOTS HERE THAT CAN ONLY SEEM TO READ THE TITLE OF A THREAD....
THIS AFFECTS ALL SUPPLEMENTS ON THE MARKET, NOT JUST PROHOMRONES, EVEN A FUCKING MULTIPLE VITAMIN!
I was just about to say this. Christ people are fuking dumb. They're gonna ban gardening next.
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I was just about to say this. Christ people are fuking dumb. They're gonna ban gardening next.
I bet my ass more people die of gardening every year than of supplements.
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I bet my ass more people die of gardening every year than of supplements.
I wouldn't doubt it. It's all fun and games till none of us can't buy a bottle of vitamin C with out a script.
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Maybe you should read that first, you idiot.
Aren't you in the supplement business? They are killing YOUR industry.
Exactly, what a dumbass.
If you don't like supplements or PH, don't take them. But don't support the government taking control over the industry, which does no good to anyone except the government.
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I wouldn't doubt it. It's all fun and games till none of us can't buy a bottle of vitamin C with out a script.
What happened to the nice ideas that built the United States called "Freedom" and that every pansy is responsible for his own idiocies?
It's all about the money, anyways. It's not about if high doses of Vitamins or fish oil are dangerous, it's that some big pharma company probably has a shelf full of photos of US senators getting their cocks sucked by 11 year old philipino refugee girls and they would like to sell Vitamin C for 100$$ per gram rather than 10 Cents.
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Maybe you should read that first, you idiot.
Aren't you in the supplement business? They are killing YOUR industry.
No, people like IronMagLabs are killing the supplement industry by selling prohormones which have been banned for a number of years. When you thumb your nose at the U.S Government, they are going to boot everyone in the ass.
As far as my industry is concerned, I don't like the government punishing everyone for the activities of a few idiots but that's just the way it is sometimes.
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No, people like IronMagLabs are killing the supplement industry by selling prohormones which have been banned for a number of years. When you thumb your nose at the U.S Government, they are going to boot everyone in the ass.
As far as my industry is concerned, I don't like the government punishing everyone for the activities of a few idiots but that's just the way it is sometimes.
If you would have ANY knowledge of the current US-American laws, you would know that what they did was perfectly legal. The products they put on the market are legal until they are proven to be unsafe, that's the law, and they went by it.
Now soon you will be out of business because you cannot sell your fucking bee pollen anymore without a prescript.
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why do you need multi vitamin?
eat food
get legit gh it is will give you all the multi anything you want,,
gh15 approved
I'm not sure how many people eat a balanced and varied diet to get all the necessary vits and minerals. You, yourself, once mentioned to take a good multi-vit and fish oil. Not everyone eats sushi with salmon everyday and multi-vits are cheap insurance.
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If you would have ANY knowledge of the current US-American laws, you would know that what they did was perfectly legal. The products they put on the market are legal until they are proven to be unsafe, that's the law, and they went by it.
Now soon you will be out of business because you cannot sell your fucking bee pollen anymore without a prescript.
No, what they are selling is illegal regardless of what loophole they "think" they jumped through. In addition, by the the time something is declared unsafe its already to late for some people.
People have had it up to here with the antics of rogue supplement companies and this is the end result
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you better read the bill because this is going to give the FDA ultimate power to ban anything they see fit including multiple vitamins, remember they banned vitamin B6 last year, imagine what they will be doing now!
this is the absolute worst thing that could happen, anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete ignorant moron.
I think its a great idea that the FDA get involved. It's LONG overdue. These supplement companies make RIDICULOUS claims with ZERO evidence-based research to support most of these claims. 99% of supplements are pure garbage anyway. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete ignorant moron, or is trying to sell you supplements...
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For the amount of damage that prohormones will do to your body, you might as well just inject real steroids.
"1"
QFT
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I think its a great idea that the FDA get involved. It's LONG overdue. These supplement companies make RIDICULOUS claims with ZERO evidence-based research to support most of these claims. 99% of supplements are pure garbage anyway. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete ignorant moron, or is trying to sell you supplements...
Thank God for the FDA, they keep us safe.
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OKAY, FOR THE IDIOTS HERE THAT CAN ONLY SEEM TO READ THE TITLE OF A THREAD....
THIS AFFECTS ALL SUPPLEMENTS ON THE MARKET, NOT JUST PROHOMRONES, EVEN A FUCKING MULTIPLE VITAMIN!
And for the majority of the population who eat a healthy diet- they don't need to take a multi-vitamin... those with specific nutritional deficiencies, or health issues and/or are on medications that deplete various vitamins/minerals (only one i can think off of the top of my head is Methotrexate depleting Folic acid) These people can go to their doctor, get a script for folic acid or whatever and go to the pharmacy and pick it up for 5 bucks and be sure that they are taking 100% pure quality product... not blinding trusting some supplement company with piss poor quality control, retarded marketing, no evidence-based research... etc Youre just pissed because you arent going to be able to sell your Horny Goat Weed anymore ::)
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I'm not sure how many people eat a balanced and varied diet to get all the necessary vits and minerals. You, yourself, once mentioned to take a good multi-vit and fish oil. Not everyone eats sushi with salmon everyday and multi-vits are cheap insurance.
with next to ZERO proof that they are worth a damn. Sure you "feel good" taking it, but popping a 1000mg of Vit C is not the same as eating an orange.
There was a study not too long ago comparing some of the top multi-vitamin companies that looked at what is REALLY in the bottle... I believe Centrum was the only company that was anywhere near close to the actual doses of vits and minerals per serving, but even they weren't 100% accurate with their claims. Many companies were WAY off... I'll see if i can dig it up.
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with next to ZERO proof that they are worth a damn. Sure you "feel good" taking it, but popping a 1000mg of Vit C is not the same as eating an orange.
Why
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Why
Exactly...
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Why
Your body will only absorb a small percentage of an isolate form of vitamins and minerals- and utilizes even less. Your body absorbs much more of the whole food form in it's natural state. This is what our body is physiologically designed to do. Many supplemental vitamins and minerals have other additives/ preservatives and other potential allergens that you won't necessarily have with a whole food. On top of that, there may be side effects to taking vitamins, depending on the quality of the isolate. Not to mention right now, most supplement companies have very low standards for quality control, if any. Some companies are better than others.
The only people who will argue that taking a pill form of a vitamin or mineral is better than eating a whole food are those who sell supplements.
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Your body will only absorb a small percentage of an isolate form of vitamins and minerals- and utilizes even less. Your body absorbs much more of the whole food form in it's natural state. This is what our body is physiologically designed to do. Many supplemental vitamins and minerals have other additives/ preservatives and other potential allergens that you won't necessarily have with a whole food. On top of that, there may be side effects to taking vitamins, depending on the quality of the isolate. Not to mention right now, most supplement companies have very low standards for quality control, if any. Some companies are better than others.
Simply not true unless you have any studies that prove otherwise. Also as an aside, there are plenty of supplement companies that assay their products.
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Simply not true unless you have any studies that prove otherwise. Also as an aside, there are plenty of supplement companies that assay their products.
::) Prove I'm wrong EXPERT...
then there is the whole issue of OTC supplements being enzyme inducers and inhibitors such as St. Johns Wort, which can essentially speed up your liver's processing of various other drugs, causing them to be less effective. But of course, you are an EXPERT, so im sure you know plenty about this.
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::) Prove I'm wrong EXPERT...
You are the one making claims not me. One does not go around disproving all erroneous claims that are made. That is up to the person making the claim if possible which in your case it's not. You obviously do not know what you are talking about since once someone asks you to explain yourself you can't. You are making some pretty clear cut claims with some specific terms as if you are trying to convince people that you actually know something. Next time think before you speak and save yourself the embarrassment of showing your lack of knowledge.
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You are the one making claims not me. One does not go around disproving all erroneous claims that are made. You obviously do not know what you are talking about since once someone asks you to explain yourself you can't. You are making some pretty clear cut claims with some specific terms as if you are trying to convince people that you actually know something. Next time think before you speak and save yourself the embarrassment of showing your lack of knowledge.
LOL So what supplements do you sell bro? You are claiming what I stated isn't true... So, prove it. Prove me wrong if im incorrect. what specifically do you disagree with? What is not true about the fact that many OTC vitamins are loaded with fillers, preservatives and other chemicals and potential allergens? That their label claims aren't always accurate. What is not true about the fact that our body only absorbs a small percentage of isolate forms of vitamins and minerals? Maybe if you took a basic biology or organic chemistry class ever in your life, you would know this.
the only one who should be embarrassed is you, because pretty soon you'll be out of a job. ;D
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FACT: "Vitamin C in whole food does not exist as ascorbic acid alone, but co-exists within a synergistic network of enzymes, and other cofactors, that as a whole, total biologically-active vitamin C. Synthetic vitamins, due to their non-ionic structure, are not complete complexes. Any food or vitamin must contain the appropriate live enzymes to be utilized by cells. Enzymes make transport of nutrients through cell walls possible. Live food comes complete with enzymes to assist with its digestion and assimilation.
Most vitamin and mineral supplements do not contain enzymes. A majority are produced or chemically processed in laboratories. Such mass-produced synthetic products are good for profit and shelf life but that's about it. The perfect example of a synthetic vitamin which is perpetrated as the real thing by the supplement industry is ascorbic acid. The supplement industry calls it vitamin C. Ascorbic acid is not vitamin C, but rather a fraction/ the outside layer of the biologically utilizable vitamin C complex.
Whole food vitamin C is also naturally buffered, with less than 1/10 the acidity compared to common ascorbic acid found in many supplemental Vit C products, and is therefore gentler on the stomach. "
Moral of the Story- Anyone that thinks man-made vitamins are better or equal to natural whole foods is a fucking retard, or sells supplements for a living. End of discussion.
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Your body will only absorb a small percentage of an isolate form of vitamins and minerals- and utilizes even less. Your body absorbs much more of the whole food form in it's natural state. This is what our body is physiologically designed to do. Many supplemental vitamins and minerals have other additives/ preservatives and other potential allergens that you won't necessarily have with a whole food. On top of that, there may be side effects to taking vitamins, depending on the quality of the isolate. Not to mention right now, most supplement companies have very low standards for quality control, if any. Some companies are better than others.
The only people who will argue that taking a pill form of a vitamin or mineral is better than eating a whole food are those who sell supplements.
SPOT ON!!!! Lol, people should read this and learn it.
Vitamin supplements don't do shit... I allways have a flu, fever.... vitamins don't help anything. "OOOH You need to up the dosage, take 4g of C mitamine a day".... why? So I have 40x the ammount of other chemicals that stresses out my liver and actually harms my immune system? No thanks.
It's not about the ammount of vitamins you take, it's about the quality. 100mg of c vitamin a day is more than enough if your body rly takes advantage of it.
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Why are you morons for more government control Christ. If you are so against supplements don't use them. Every year the government gains a new foot hold in some part of our life. You really want them telling you what you can and can't take? It's called personal responsibility. I swear some of you want to live in a nanny state.
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Why are you morons for more government control Christ. If you are so against supplements don't use them. Every year the government gains a new foot hold in some part of our life. You really want them telling you what you can and can't take? It's called personal responsibility. I swear some of you want to live in a nanny state.
This x2
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Why are you morons for more government control Christ. If you are so against supplements don't use them. Every year the government gains a new foot hold in some part of our life. You really want them telling you what you can and can't take? It's called personal responsibility. I swear some of you want to live in a nanny state.
Where the fuck did i say I'm for government control you... you.. FREAK!
Fucking pro noob, that's what you are.
I only stated that I agree with alexander that VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS don't work for SHIT! That's all! Every government control like this is ridiculous in my oppinion. Doesn't make the fact dissappear that 99% of supplements have only 2% of the ingredients promissed instead of 80% which the products allways claim.
If it was all for me, I'd make a "remove the phony producsts, enhance the working ones" campaign, but I can't.
I'm all for prohormones and supplements etc... I want tribulus plant in stores like any other green salad... but I can't do that, so... but doesn't matter, vitamin supplements = worth nothing.
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Your body will only absorb a small percentage of an isolate form of vitamins and minerals- and utilizes even less. Your body absorbs much more of the whole food form in it's natural state. This is what our body is physiologically designed to do. Many supplemental vitamins and minerals have other additives/ preservatives and other potential allergens that you won't necessarily have with a whole food. On top of that, there may be side effects to taking vitamins, depending on the quality of the isolate. Not to mention right now, most supplement companies have very low standards for quality control, if any. Some companies are better than others.
Hate to break it to you folks, but this stud right here is completely right.
"1"
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FACT: Vitamin C in whole food does not exist as ascorbic acid alone, but co-exists within a synergistic network of enzymes, and other cofactors, that as a whole, total biologically-active vitamin C. Synthetic vitamins, due to their non-ionic structure, are not complete complexes. Any food or vitamin must contain the appropriate live enzymes to be utilized by cells. Enzymes make transport of nutrients through cell walls possible. Live food comes complete with enzymes to assist with its digestion and assimilation.
Most vitamin and mineral supplements do not contain enzymes. A majority are produced or chemically processed in laboratories. Such mass-produced synthetic products are good for profit and shelf life but that's about it. The perfect example of a synthetic vitamin which is perpetrated as the real thing by the supplement industry is ascorbic acid. The supplement industry calls it vitamin C. Ascorbic acid is not vitamin C, but rather a fraction/ the outside layer of the biologically utilizable vitamin C complex.
Whole food vitamin C is also naturally buffered, with less than 1/10 the acidity compared to common ascorbic acid found in many supplemental Vit C products, and is therefore gentler on the stomach.
Moral of the Story- Anyone that thinks man-made vitamins are better or equal to natural whole foods is a fucking retard, or sells supplements for a living. End of discussion.
Epic cut and paste from the arrogant fuckwit pretending (on Getbig LOL) to be a doctor... bro! Quite the deluded, and indeed typical, black moron!
When Alexander (aka: black Einstein) asserted that [to paraphrase] "the onus is upon you to disprove my negative" (as directed to Jim/Disgusted above) I nearly fell off my chair, such was the comedy gold; the fucking dusky toolbag.
ANYHOO, LOL, BUSTED:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=naturalpedia+total+biologically-active+vitamin+C.+Synthetic+vitamins%2C+due+to+their+non-ionic+structure%2C+are+not+complete+complexes.+Any+food+or+vitamin+must+contain+the+appropriate+live+enzymes+to+be+utilized+by+cells.+Enzymes+make+transport+of+nutrients+t&aq=o&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=Most+vitamin+and+mineral+supplements+do+not+contain+enzymes.+A+majority+are+produced+or+chemically+processed+in+laboratories.+Such+mass-produced+synthetic+products+are+good+for+profit+and+shelf+life+but+that%27s+about+it.+The+perfect+example+of+a+synthetic+v&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=naturally+buffered%2C+with+less+than+1%2F10+the+acidity+compared+to+common+ascorbic+acid+found+in+many+supplemental+Vit+C+products%2C+and+is+therefore+gentler+on+the+stomach.&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
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Those sites are actually not where I got my information, but either way, what I posted was 100% accurate. You and your buddy Jim cannot disprove anything I have posted. FACT. Cute that you removed the quotation marks from my original post to make it seem like I wasn't giving credit to the original author ::) pretty sad!
And I am a surgeon I could careless if you believe me or not, psycho. You take the internet WAY too seriously ::)
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it is well accepted amongst nutrition professionals that a good portion of micro-nutrients when obtained from natural sources come with a variety of cofactors and co-enzymes which make them much more bioavailable in vivo. Multivitamin pills are a excellent insurance plan if one is going to a remote area and won't have access to adequate nutrition ect. but to depend on them is silly.
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Those sites are actually not where I got my information
You take the internet WAY too seriously ::)
LOL ... lighten up
then tell me how those two sentences can make sense to you to use ?
1st you say you didn't get your info from "those" sites
then say "I" take the internet too serious :-*
much muffled laughter ... you used the internet for a cut and paste rebuttal ;D
play on Surgeon
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My rebuttal was partially cut and pasted from http://www.uptodate.com/index, which is a reputable online medical reference site that is used by docs every day. It’s a subscription only site, but if you PM me, I’d be happy to give you the user name and password that my hospital uses and let you see the articles I was referring to.
Either way, the fact still remains that what I posted is accurate, and up to date in current medical literature.
Both you and Jim aren’t able to defend your statements, so you try personal attacks and whatnot… lame. Enjoy that expensive urine!!
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i cant believe people buy supps..vitamins.....proh ormones... fucking idiots. In fact it will prevent stupid people from wasting their money on garbage that does absolutely nothing.
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You can't make a statement like, "vitamins in food are absorbed better", across the board. Yes, often true, but not always. Example: vitamin b-12. Preferably synthetic form given via injection if levels are low. Some people also lack certain enzymes that absorb b-12 from the gut and synthetic oral forms like a co-enzyme of b-12 called methylcobalamin may be warranted if deficient.
Infants are sometimes given synthetic vitamins. Doctors prescribe various synthetic vitamins in deficiency states. My mother eats a prescribed calcium/D-3 combo and labs show they "work" (obviously food wasn't enough). People on diuretics may get potassium etc etc.
It's not black and white. Food is of utmost importance and supplements may not supply micronutrients found in foods we do not yet know about, but supplemental vitamins may work just as well as food derived and sometimes better, as I illustrated above.
I don't think Alexander D is a doc. Yes a doc may say you don't need anything other than a balanced diet, but docs also prescribe vitamins, even to patients eating well.
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You can't make a statement like, "vitamins in food are absorbed better", across the board. Yes, often true, but not always. Example: vitamin b-12. Preferably synthetic form given via injection if levels are low. Some people also lack certain enzymes that absorb b-12 from the gut and synthetic oral forms like a co-enzyme of b-12 called methylcobalamin may be warranted if deficient.
Infants are sometimes given synthetic vitamins. Doctors prescribe various synthetic vitamins in deficiency states. My mother eats a prescribed calcium/D-3 combo and labs show they "work" (obviously food wasn't enough). People on diuretics may get potassium etc etc.
It's not black and white. Food is of utmost importance and supplements may not supply micronutrients found in foods we do not yet know about, but supplemental vitamins may work just as well as food derived and sometimes better, as I illustrated above.
I don't think Alexander D is a doc. Yes a doc may say you don't need anything other than a balanced diet, but docs also prescribe vitamins, even to patients eating well.
Thank you!
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LOL ... lighten up
then tell me how those two sentences can make sense to you to use ?
1st you say you didn't get your info from "those" sites
then say "I" take the internet too serious :-*
much muffled laughter ... you used the internet for a cut and paste rebuttal ;D
play on Surgeon
Alexander fcknw pwnd by my internet girlfriend - do you like apples??
fckn toolbox - you shit posts are gettn ridicuous and FINALLY someone outs your fatass
only way to prove your a real man is to post pics now - PTPS
You can't make a statement like, "vitamins in food are absorbed better", across the board. Yes, often true, but not always. Example: vitamin b-12. Preferably synthetic form given via injection if levels are low. Some people also lack certain enzymes that absorb b-12 from the gut and synthetic oral forms like a co-enzyme of b-12 called methylcobalamin may be warranted if deficient.
this is true - absorbtion rate of cynocobalamin is capped in the stomach
i take 1mL a week
(http://www.mcguffmedical.com/Images/Images550/000610%20Cyanocobalamin%20Vitamin%20B-12%201000%20mcgmL%20MDV%2030mL%20Vial%20McGuffMedical.com.jpg)
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You can't make a statement like, "vitamins in food are absorbed better", across the board. Yes, often true, but not always. Example: vitamin b-12. Preferably synthetic form given via injection if levels are low. Some people also lack certain enzymes that absorb b-12 from the gut and synthetic oral forms like a co-enzyme of b-12 called methylcobalamin may be warranted if deficient.
Infants are sometimes given synthetic vitamins. Doctors prescribe various synthetic vitamins in deficiency states. My mother eats a prescribed calcium/D-3 combo and labs show they "work" (obviously food wasn't enough). People on diuretics may get potassium etc etc.
It's not black and white. Food is of utmost importance and supplements may not supply micronutrients found in foods we do not yet know about, but supplemental vitamins may work just as well as food derived and sometimes better, as I illustrated above.
I don't think Alexander D is a doc. Yes a doc may say you don't need anything other than a balanced diet, but docs also prescribe vitamins, even to patients eating well.
You are correct about B12, but the issue really isn't about the vitamins/minerals US doctors prescribe (which are pharmaceutical grade and approved by the FDA to meet their quality standards). I never ever stated that there isn’t a role for those. You mention those with B12 deficiency and infants, great. I think it’s pretty clear that we are specifically talking about the relatively healthy adult population that exercises. I am sorry if that wasn’t made me clear with the posts, or if you failed to realize that.
The issue is that ANY jackass can start a supplement company and sell vitamins, pro hormones, you name it and make ridiculous label claims and at the moment do not have much accountability. Look at the industry, it’s an embarrassment. “TAKE THIS CREATINE IT’s 2934234 times better than BRAND X”. “NITROTECH WILL HELP YOU GAIN 8.4 LBS OF MUSCLE IN JUST 14 days”… Garbage.
Again, for those who exercise and eat a balanced diet, I do not know a single doctor who tells their patients to take a multi-vitamin… Usually it’s more like “OK, take it if it makes you feel better, you are probably wasting your money, but it’s your decision.” To say we blindly endorse taking vitamins and minerals for no reason is incorrect.
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So many factors are involved when it comes to absorption. The amount of fat in stomach, adding in other nutrients, and the amount of vitamin that you take. For example, Vit C, the more you take the more that is absorbed although the amount of absorption is far less as the dose is increased. But hey, who can argue with a
thirteen year old surgeon? ::)
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haha, great rebut, spastic!
Of course, we expect nothing less from the sub saharan representative that is your fine self.
So, gollywog, let us address your bullshit point, and more so, let us reveal just 'why' you offer Jim/Disgusted NOT A SINGLE IOTA OF PROOF to support your specious claim.
To begin, isolate compound forms of Vitamins offer a person the oppportunity to meet their daily requirements in a convenient form that is low anti nutrient, and low allergenity. These compound isolate Vitamins can be taken with most any meal as preferred by the person consuming them, thus these products also have utility as far as ones taste buds are concerned.
You offer Jim ZERO PROOF; This being the case on account that your fallacious position, vis a vis, isolate Vitamins, is not only factually incorrect, it is also absolutely untenable.
There exists ZERO evidence that consuming whole foods, as opposed to isolate vitamins, confers any advantage (over a balanced diet) as per the kind being, fallaciously, implied by the thick headed African that you are. Or is this where you now, actually, claim that anyone is advocating living on fuck all other than synthetic vitamins?
Indeed, and for example, take a look at the pylate content of whole grains, and more so, how said pylate content compromises the absorbtion of various minerals by the body; shaka zulu, spear chucking, senile scumbag.
Comically, when discussing "real food vs synthetic vitamins" you talk of "synergistic enzymes", hilarious really given it thusly reveals your complete fucking ignorance vis a vis Lectins, enzyme inhibitors and other deletariious, anti nutrient crap found in examples of 'real food' such as 'healthy' whole grains.
You can rattle on about how "Vitamin C co-exists within a synergistic network of enzymes" to your hearts desire, none of it changes the fact that you have highlighted zero tightly controlled studies (and certianly fuck all consensus opinion outside of indulgent supposition) that demonstrate synthetic isolate vitimins, as part of a balanced diet, to have no positive effects when compared to your 'whole foods', the reason, because you can't!
Of course, we won't even get into the fact that Vitamin C intake decreases mitochondrial biogenesis, because hey, according to you, the stuff has fuck all effect either way... or is this where you now claim Vitimin C only confers detrimental effects on subjects? LOL, all over the place like the spade you are.
This, again, of course being the reason you couldn't pony up when Jim requested the proof. So please, woeful wog, stop wasting our time with your silly, hypothetical speculations about synergistic networks, how they, supposedly, will not function when met with synthetic isolate vitamins.
All accordingy to you... the bogus bantu, with zero proof LOL
Also, your fallacious assertion that the existance of underdosed brands somehow validates an expansionist governemnt policy, is absurd in the extreme. Some brands have been found to be underdosed, and?
To wit, come on, retard; for your position to hold water, you now have to assert than at no time has any pharamaceutical company ever produced underdosed or harmful products... doh, king of the African cunts.
You really are quite the digressive, double talking darkie, are you not?
Oh and, to Vince 'fudge highway' Goodrum, you have some fucking nerve to talk; purveyor of IGF, Bee Pollen and other assorted shit. Your snake-oil peddling ilk will be the first in the fucking camps, come the time crap such as this reaches the statue. The DSHEA is more than enough, but hey, no surpris that a gang of jew supremacists and their sub human lackies want to piss all over what the founding fathers invisaged, eh Vince?
Getbig seems to have become a cognatively compromised adjunct, for low brow, semi evolved Mountebanks with origins somewhat south of the sahara!
lmfao if you think id ever waste my time reading your bullshit novel. LOL have a good day ;D
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lmfao if you think id ever waste my time reading your bullshit novel. LOL have a good day ;D
wouldnt that take you like 3min to read and process with all the books and journal your read in medical school
aaaaaaahhhhh shit - go back to bangbros and rub one out you fckwit :o 8) ???
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wouldnt that take you like 3min to read and process with all the books and journal your read in medical school
aaaaaaahhhhh shit - go back to bangbros and rub one out you fckwit :o 8) ???
LOL .. no matter .. it's what they do ... when all else fails .. just insert a rolley eye .. say "next" .. or claim it's too much to read
hope you're having a good day ;)
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LOL .. no matter .. it's what they do
hope you're having a good day ;)
you need to come workout with me and spot me ;) :P - I only workout with women, workout partners with 'bros' turn into a pissing contest and I dont need some other dude hyping me up - he doesnt do that when I have sex - if I hear a chick goin ' push harder ' i put up like 4 more reps easily no prob
I need someone to shave my back to - its get down right riduculous :o
hope you have a good weekend sweetness :)
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you need to come workout with me and spot me ;) :P - I only workout with women, workout partners with 'bros' turn into a pissing contest and I dont need some other dude hyping me up - he doesnt do that when I have sex - if I hear a chick goin ' push harder ' i put up like 4 more reps easily no prob
I need someone to shave my back to - its get down right riduculous :o
hope you have a good weekend sweetness :)
If I lived close by .. I'd spot you for my own pleasure !!
What kind of razor do you use ? I like shaving :D
My weekend is going to be fabulous thank you ... I hope yours is aswell :-*
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lmfao if you think id ever waste my time reading your bullshit novel. LOL have a good day ;D
"vitamins supplements don't work"
"Supplementary vitamins don't work, only vitamins from whole foods do"
"Vitamin supplements they do work... as part of a balanced diet"
You are ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!
You need to find some degree of focus, maybe have the zoo keeper there chain you down on a flat bed lorry, like fucking king kong?
LOL, no problem, and trust me here, at no point did I expect you to be capable of reading anything, your kind never are, I mean, why not tell us how that "never invented a written language of our own" thing goes again?
Yeah yeah, I know, something to do with white oppresion? despite you black wankers existing all alone for millenia before the white man got there, yada yada yada.
Good night, imbecile; shambolic dickhead, with the distinctly dubious, doctoral credentials LOL
(o)(o)
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You are correct about B12, but the issue really isn't about the vitamins/minerals US doctors prescribe (which are pharmaceutical grade and approved by the FDA to meet their quality standards).
Major pharmaceutical companies produce multivitamins as well, do they not? Like Centrum? I would recommend going with a pharma vitamin if possible (if you think you need it/if your diet is restrictive such as when dieting on chicken, tuna and rice or whatever). Though there are high quality supp companies as well, I would avoid supplement companies targeting bodybuilders.
I don't use multivitamins regularly myself, but maybe I should. For example, if my lips crack and I take some multis the lips heal overnight. So maybe intake isn't optimal.
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If I lived close by .. I'd spot you for my own pleasure !!
What kind of razor do you use ? I like shaving :D
My weekend is going to be fabulous thank you ... I hope yours is aswell :-*
mach 5 but it prob has to be clippd first :-[ finish it off in the shower ;D
yea it would definately be a pleasurable experience ;)
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Many of you need to forget the part about pro-hormones and supplements, the problem here is the FDA is getting ultimate control to do whatever they want, period. Whether a product is safe or not if the FDA, aka big pharma, feels that its impeding on their revenues they will tell the FDA to pull it. This has to do with our rights in America. Why would you want the government telling you what you can and cannot put in your body? If you think they are looking out for your welfare then they would not be approving all of these drugs that you see advertised on TV every night with symptoms that range from heart attack to death. And of course tobacco would be illegal.
Americans are not dieing from prohormones, steroids or supplements, they're dying from alcohol, tobacco, prescription drugs, pesticides in our foods causing cancer, etc. and even OTC drugs like Tylenol and Aspirin.
You all need to wake up and realize what I am trying to tell you here is MORE American rights are being taken from us and more government control is being put in place.
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Those prohormones are known to burn holes in the liver. I'd rather take 10 Abombs a day then some of that over the counter poison.
You can't. The "power" has decided that's off-limits, too.
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For the amount of damage that prohormones will do to your body, you might as well just inject real steroids.
You can't. The "power" has decided that's off-limits, too.
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You all need to wake up and realize what I am trying to tell you here is MORE American rights are being taken from us and more government control is being put in place.
That doesn't come as a surprise. Just the other day, Obama signed the extension for the Patriot Act to be active for another year.
"1"
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Major pharmaceutical companies produce multivitamins as well, do they not? Like Centrum? I would recommend going with a pharma vitamin if possible (if you think you need it/if your diet is restrictive such as when dieting on chicken, tuna and rice or whatever). Though there are high quality supp companies as well, I would avoid supplement companies targeting bodybuilders.
I don't use multivitamins regularly myself, but maybe I should. For example, if my lips crack and I take some multis the lips heal overnight. So maybe intake isn't optimal.
Off hand, I am not sure if big pharma groups produce multivits like you see OTC in stores. I have never prescribed one, that is for sure. But really, this isnt where the focus of my training is. I'm having dinner with a buddy of mine tonight who is a family practice doc, and I'll see what he has to say about the topic. I believe Centrum is a private company, but they were shown in a recent study to have the most accurate label claims when compared to other brands of Multi-vits like GNC brand, Vit Shoppe Brand etc. I'm with you on avoiding most of the supplement companies that target bodybuilders. It's these companies and their outrageous label claims that have prompted the FDA to get involved in this industry.
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That doesn't come as a surprise. Just the other day, Obama signed the extension for the Patriot Act to be active for another year.
"1"
yup... I'm one of the few black people that isn't a big fan of Obama. But certainly id rather have him in office than SARAH F'ing PALIN.
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yup... I'm one of the few black people that isn't a big fan of Obama. But certainly id rather have him in office than SARAH F'ing PALIN.
I didnt know your were black ?
i was picturing a squirrely british dude or a little white trash hardass from 'down under'
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Many of you need to forget the part about pro-hormones and supplements, the problem here is the FDA is getting ultimate control to do whatever they want, period. Whether a product is safe or not if the FDA, aka big pharma, feels that its impeding on their revenues they will tell the FDA to pull it. This has to do with our rights in America. Why would you want the government telling you what you can and cannot put in your body? If you think they are looking out for your welfare then they would not be approving all of these drugs that you see advertised on TV every night with symptoms that range from heart attack to death. And of course tobacco would be illegal.
Americans are not dieing from prohormones, steroids or supplements, they're dying from alcohol, tobacco, prescription drugs, pesticides in our foods causing cancer, etc. and even OTC drugs like Tylenol and Aspirin.
You all need to wake up and realize what I am trying to tell you here is MORE American rights are being taken from us and more government control is being put in place.
Relax broseph, the world is going to end in 2012 anyway... Paris Hilton just came out with a new line of mens cologne and Kim K is going to start doing REAL hollywood movies. lol
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That doesn't come as a surprise. Just the other day, Obama signed the extension for the Patriot Act to be active for another year.
Exactly, most Americans don't even know what the Patriot Act is! It was sold on fear to "protect us" from terrorism, however anyone with any intelligence that decided to read into this bill a little further found that all Americans just lost most of their constitutional rights when it was passed.
The Dietary Safety Act of 2010 was sold the same way, it just appears that the FDA is protecting us from harmful or tainted food and "dangerous" supplements, that is not what its about! If the FDA wants to take Creatine off the market they can and they don't need any reason to do it other than they think its harmful...do you guys get it?
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Dreamy!!
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p94/dwayno/yafacebytch.jpg)
"1"
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do you guys get it?
Yes, it's called fascism. Corporate controlled environments are known for it. They use a police-state to enforce it. We get it, but are unhappy about it.
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You all need to wake up and realize what I am trying to tell you here is MORE American rights are being taken from us and more government control is being put in place.
I've always liked you .... but I think you sometimes forget that common sense isn't so common here .... I totally agree with the quoted statement ... but there are too many people who walk through their days unaware of what's going on in this country .. but yet they can recite rap lyrics and sit-com storylines verbatim
Not everyone cares what is on the horizon for this country ... too many just want to make it to the weekend and buy a new video game :-\
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Off hand, I am not sure if big pharma groups produce multivits like you see OTC in stores. I have never prescribed one, that is for sure. But really, this isnt where the focus of my training is. I'm having dinner with a buddy of mine tonight who is a family practice doc, and I'll see what he has to say about the topic. I believe Centrum is a private company, but they were shown in a recent study to have the most accurate label claims when compared to other brands of Multi-vits like GNC brand, Vit Shoppe Brand etc. I'm with you on avoiding most of the supplement companies that target bodybuilders. It's these companies and their outrageous label claims that have prompted the FDA to get involved in this industry.
So, you, in your supposed role as a doctor, have never heard of the OTC multivitamin product named Geritol, as manufactured by the BILLION DOLLAR GlaxoSmithkline?
http://www.gsk.com/products/consumer-healthcare/geritol.htm
hahahahaha, oh brother, you are a TOTAL fucking fraud!
Seriously, just 'what' is it with you black fellas, vis a vis, feeling the need to bullshit your way through life?
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I think in a couple of years when dietary supplements have to be prescribed by a doctor, yes I am talking about a multiple vitamin, creatine, etc., many people will be pissed off and wonder how it all happened, well I am telling you here how its happening.
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Off hand, I am not sure if big pharma groups produce multivits like you see OTC in stores. I have never prescribed one, that is for sure.
I believe Centrum is a private company, but they were shown in a recent study to have the most accurate label claims when compared to other brands of Multi-vits like GNC brand, Vit Shoppe Brand etc.
Quick search says Pfizer manufactures Centrum vitamins.
http://www.pfizer.com/research/rd_works/pearl_river.jsp
Bayer makes Flintstones vitamins. :D
http://flintstonesvitamins.com/
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Quick search says Pfizer manufactures Centrum vitamins.
http://www.pfizer.com/research/rd_works/pearl_river.jsp
Ok thanks!! News to me... like I said, they were the most reputable company in a recent study that came out... Now that i know Pfizer makes them, i wonder if Pfizer sponsored this study lol
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Surgeonboy is getting owned.
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So, you, in your supposed role as a doctor, have never heard of the OTC multivitamin product named Geritol, as manufactured by the BILLION DOLLAR GlaxoSmithkline?
http://www.gsk.com/products/consumer-healthcare/geritol.htm
hahahahaha, oh brother, you are a TOTAL fucking fraud!
Seriously, just 'what' is it with you black fellas, vis a vis, feeling the need to bullshit your way through life?
what part of OFF HAND, do you not understand you psycho drugged-up ADHD hypomanic c u n t? Ok yes, I've heard of Geritol. Fantastic.
Get off my cock already.
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DEA to legalize marijuana chemical for Big Pharma but keep it a crime for everyone else
http://www.ironmagazine.com/blog/2011/dea-to-legalize-marijuana-chemical-for-big-pharma-but-keep-it-a-crime-for-everyone-else/
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what part of OFF HAND, do you not understand you psycho ADHD hypomanic c u n t? Ok yes, I've heard of Geritol. Fantastic.
Get off my cock already.
hahahahahaaa profound words of a surgeon.
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hahahahahaaa profound words of a surgeon.
says the GETBIG EXPERT lmao... ::) best of luck in real life bro! :-*
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says the GETBIG EXPERT lmao... ::) best of luck in real life bro! :-*
Actually you could be a surgeon, you haven't gotten a damm thing right so far about nutrition. Lol
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you psycho drugged-up ADHD hypomanic c u n t?
Get off my cock already.
don't flatter yourself ... I would sooner jump into a wood chipper than onto your widdle weewee ... call me picky too
;D
Ok thanks!! News to me...
Yeah, we guessed that much, monkey brains.
You do realise you have been dismantled by Van, of whom, has employed his usual, subtle method?
It is, none the less, nice to see you thanking him for his 'assistance' though, no stranger to oblivion that you are.
hahahahahahahahahaha
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Actually you could be a surgeon, you haven't gotten a damm thing right so far about nutrition. Lol
That actually legit made me LOL!!!! nice one bro!
w8 can pop another ritalin and suck my big nigguh cock later.
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Actually you could be a surgeon, you haven't gotten a damm thing right so far about nutrition. Lol
In his defense, most surgeons know very, VERY little about Internal Medicine and even less about nutrition. Most surgeons finish med school to only then go into a 5-year general surgery residency depending on the specialty. Most of that shit from med school goes right out the door. Instead of clouding their heads with the fundamental crap that will not serve them any use, they keep their heads wrapped around their sub-speciality.
I mean, look at Orthopaedic surgeons. They do 4 years of med school, followed by a 5-year orthopaedic surgery residency, then followed by another 2 years of a sub-specialty in orthopedics. Seven years of orthopedics versus four years of a crammed med school education, something has to give...
Would you ask that guy about any nutritional advice or any true medical advice?
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Come to think about it, most doctors I know, don't even try to give out nutritional advice and instead refer their patients to a nutritionist.
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My brother in law is a Dr very smart above averge in the field but admittedly he knows little about diet, nothing wrong with that. Bottom line is the FDA would love to yank all vitamins and minerals off the market.
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And for the majority of the population who eat a healthy diet- they don't need to take a multi-vitamin... those with specific nutritional deficiencies, or health issues and/or are on medications that deplete various vitamins/minerals (only one i can think off of the top of my head is Methotrexate depleting Folic acid) These people can go to their doctor, get a script for folic acid or whatever and go to the pharmacy and pick it up for 5 bucks and be sure that they are taking 100% pure quality product... not blinding trusting some supplement company with piss poor quality control, retarded marketing, no evidence-based research... etc Youre just pissed because you arent going to be able to sell your Horny Goat Weed anymore ::)
Thank you Alexander D for telling the truth to this fucking snake oil salesmen and morons who believe in the worthless garbage called supplements!
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Come to think about it, most doctors I know, don't even try to give out nutritional advice and instead refer their patients to a nutritionist.
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and sadly any nutritionist that got a college degree knows very little about nutrtition.
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In his defense, most surgeons know very, VERY little about Internal Medicine and even less about nutrition. Most surgeons finish med school to only then go into a 5-year general surgery residency depending on the specialty. Most of that shit from med school goes right out the door. Instead of clouding their heads with the fundamental crap that will not serve them any use, they keep their heads wrapped around their sub-speciality.
I mean, look at Orthopaedic surgeons. They do 4 years of med school, followed by a 5-year orthopaedic surgery residency, then followed by another 2 years of a sub-specialty in orthopedics. Seven years of orthopedics versus four years of a crammed med school education, something has to give...
Would you ask that guy about any nutritional advice or any true medical advice?
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My training was actually longer than that... My general surgery residency was 7 years total. 5 years clinical, 2 years mandatory research in between our PGY-2 and PGY-3 year. It was brutal actually, especially when we came out of the lab as a PGY-3 and struggled to do a Lap Chole's and such!! It came back pretty quick tho... I am now in my last of 3 years of surgical oncology fellowship. it was 2 years clinical and im doing an extra year of research, which is why i am able to sit on the computer all day long and mess with these idiots.
Either way, i've said nothing that is incorrect. I may not know everything about which pharma company makes X vitamin, but my stance on the supplement industry as a whole, specifically the companies that target bodybuilders remains completely unchanged. The end.
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My training was actually longer than that... My general surgery residency was 7 years total. 5 years clinical, 2 years mandatory research in between our PGY-2 and PGY-3 year. It was brutal actually, especially when we came out of the lab as a PGY-3 and struggled to do a Lap Chole's and such!! It came back pretty quick tho... I am now in my last of 3 years of surgical oncology fellowship. it was 2 years clinical and im doing an extra year of research, which is why i am able to sit on the computer all day long and mess with these idiots.
Either way, i've said nothing that is incorrect. I may not know everything about which pharma company makes X vitamin, but my stance on the supplement industry as a whole, specifically the companies that target bodybuilders remains completely unchanged. The end.
Translation I better think up an excuse as to why I'm on the computer all day. Hahahahahahaha
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Translation I better think up an excuse as to why I'm on the computer all day. Hahahahahahaha
Nah bro, no excuses needed. I'm enjoying this while I can. "Real life" starts in July.
Whats your excuse, Mr. Expert?
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w8 can pop another ritalin and suck my big nigguh cock later.
Chimpout!!
Around blacks, never relax!
Ya fraudulent, goal post moving prick.
You're a doctor? yeah right, sure you are.
There's more chance of seeing Dr's Jack Kervorkian and Corky on a fucking hospital ward.
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Incidentally, any moment now I am waiting for a new reply from w8 that will be just as incoherent, long-winded, retarded and misspelled as all of her posts are. With the grammar of a 7 year old autistic girl, filled with boat loads of racial slurs… im an ape, im from Africa… life is good!
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Chimpout!!
Around blacks, never relax!
Ya fraudulent, goal post moving prick.
You're a doctor? yeah right, sure you are.
There's more chance of seeing Dr's Jack Kervorkian and Corky on a fucking hospital ward.
Oh look, she beat me to it! LMAO...
You are getting better w8, your posts are getting shorter. You are learning, I will actually read the short ones.
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You are getting more considerate w8.I CAN actually read the shorter posts.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SkX9YvcDL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
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Nah bro, no excuses needed. I'm enjoying this while I can. "Real life" starts in July.
Whats your excuse, Mr. Expert?
Me well I'm sitting here gettng an oil change then its off to surgery. Lol
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(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SkX9YvcDL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
awww he's cute!!!
Is that the BEST you have? You need to try harder!!
We all know I'm not a psychiatrist, but i think yours may need to up your LITHIUM dose a little. Just some friendly advice from the pseudo-surgeon nigguh of getbig.
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man this thread is turning out good. lol
I dont think anyone is argueing that the government getting control over everything is bad news but we have to be honest here. There are far more bullshit claims in the supplement industry then legit ones. Any mag you see has add after add after add of BS.
For every good Garden of life company there are 10x random BS muscle tech type ones.
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In other news, steroid usage will go up 6 months from now.
Careful out there guys. Real bodybuilding was never meant for most. Take steroids and proceed with caution.
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awww he's cute!!!
Is that the BEST you have? You need to try harder!!
We all know I'm not a psychiatrist, but i think yours may need to up your LITHIUM dose a little. Just some friendly advice from the pseudo-surgeon nigguh of getbig.
LOL, a classic example of the pot calling the kettle... a spade.
My posts, and indeed the grammatical construction therein, are fine.
Your's however (and as per the opening gambit of this post) are the veritable fat black women in undersized, K-mart panties; an observable, axiomatic mess and no mistake.
Have we said you are a black man pretending to be a doctor?
Post a pic, Toby !
hahahahahahahahah, no really, hahahahahahaha
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w8 how much lithium do you take daily and which anti-psychotics are you on? Also, do you like anal? Have you ever been fucked in the ass with a stethoscope? thanks. Love, Dr. Toby
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w8 talk to me baby, all this attention you are giving me is making me HORNY... I know you are racist, but if we fuck ill wear a Richard Nixon mask for you.
Love,
Toby MD
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(http://www.just-whatever.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/wtf-eww.jpg)
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w8 where are you my love?! I want to cum all over those little flap jack tits of yours!! Call me!! :-*
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w8 where are you my love?! I want to cum all over those little flap jack tits of yours!! Call me!! :-*
Is that fitness chick W8m8?
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;D
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Is that fitness chick W8m8?
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Whoever believes "w8m8" is a "female" is a fucking jackass.
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Whoever believes "w8m8" is a "female" is a fucking jackass.
Look handsome, I don't know what to believe anymore.
Just the other night, a very prominent poster from this site sent me a PM stating that half the members here are homosexuals and that the other half have had sex with men, but since they were the ones pitching, they didn't technically consider themselves GAY.
Like I said, I don't know what to believe anymore.
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Not many people are for more government control. But Capitalism has jumped the shark when you can piss in a bottle and label it Hollywoodz Diet and sell it for $19.99. This sort of shit needs to be stopped one way or another. Too many people (with money) are getting super rich with scams like this. I say life in prison for anyone who knowingly/chronically mislabels a product/s.
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Look handsome, I don't know what to believe anymore.
Just the other night, a very prominent poster from this site sent me a PM stating that half the members here are homosexuals and that the other half have had sex with men, but since they were the ones pitching, they didn't technically consider themselves GAY.
Like I said, I don't know what to believe anymore.
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hahahahah ;D
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Not many people are for more government control. But Capitalism has jumped the shark when you can piss in a bottle and label it Hollywoodz Diet and sell it for $19.99. This sort of shit needs to be stopped one way or another. Too many people (with money) are getting super rich with scams like this. I say life in prison for anyone who knowingly/chronically mislabels a product/s.
Its called not being retard. When I was a kid I bought dat der cell tech and thought I was gonna gain 20 pounds of raw muscle. Well guess what It didn't happen lesson learned. Now I research anything before I buy it. Go on line read some reviews read some studies and then you can make an educated decision to buy something. Why give the government another inch on our freedom?
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OKAY, FOR THE IDIOTS HERE THAT CAN ONLY SEEM TO READ THE TITLE OF A THREAD....
THIS AFFECTS ALL SUPPLEMENTS ON THE MARKET, NOT JUST PROHOMRONES, EVEN A FUCKING MULTIPLE VITAMIN!
coolness. FDA should have had this power a long time ago. Its crazy to leave a market completely unregulated. You got stores selling 50 dollar 5 lb tubs of maltodextrin and saturated fat labeled as whey concentrate. id like to see what happens to the "body fortress" and "six start muscle" brands sold at wal mart and elsewhere once the FDA starts checking to make sure they meet label claims.
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coolness. FDA should have had this power a long time ago. Its crazy to leave a market completely unregulated. You got stores selling 50 dollar 5 lb tubs of maltodextrin and saturated fat labeled as whey concentrate. id like to see what happens to the "body fortress" and "six start muscle" brands sold at wal mart and elsewhere once the FDA starts checking to make sure they meet label claims.
Walmart will pimpslap the FDA/pay off key people to ensure they are allowed to sell whatever they want. 8)
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Walmart will pimpslap the FDA/pay off key people to ensure they are allowed to sell whatever they want. 8)
doubtful. curious as to why you would see that as a good thing tho
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doubtful. curious as to why you would see that as a good thing tho
I don't..... but it will happen if Walmart wants to. But they will just drop the products and bring in others, won't affect them in the least. The shady companies who primarily operate on the net are the ones who will get smoked.
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with next to ZERO proof that they are worth a damn. Sure you "feel good" taking it, but popping a 1000mg of Vit C is not the same as eating an orange.
There was a study not too long ago comparing some of the top multi-vitamin companies that looked at what is REALLY in the bottle... I believe Centrum was the only company that was anywhere near close to the actual doses of vits and minerals per serving, but even they weren't 100% accurate with their claims. Many companies were WAY off... I'll see if i can dig it up.
You may very well be right but since this is suppose to be a free country why not let ME decide instead of some bureaucrats in Washington that presume to know what's good for us.
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Why are you morons for more government control Christ. If you are so against supplements don't use them. Every year the government gains a new foot hold in some part of our life. You really want them telling you what you can and can't take? It's called personal responsibility. I swear some of you want to live in a nanny state.
QFT!
Some supplements do make a difference. My niece was anemic but an iron supplement cured that. Many have been diagnose as being deficient in vitamin D. Again a supplement cures that.
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Walmart will pimpslap the FDA/pay off key people to ensure they are allowed to sell whatever they want. 8)
This. While I don't like it, this new law, etc.. will do nothing to the larger brands and common supplements. It will probably kill off all of the speciality/grey market stuff. The big guys will simply grease a few palms... and that will be the end of it.
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You can't make a statement like, "vitamins in food are absorbed better", across the board. Yes, often true, but not always. Example: vitamin b-12. Preferably synthetic form given via injection if levels are low. Some people also lack certain enzymes that absorb b-12 from the gut and synthetic oral forms like a co-enzyme of b-12 called methylcobalamin may be warranted if deficient.
Infants are sometimes given synthetic vitamins. Doctors prescribe various synthetic vitamins in deficiency states. My mother eats a prescribed calcium/D-3 combo and labs show they "work" (obviously food wasn't enough). People on diuretics may get potassium etc etc.
It's not black and white. Food is of utmost importance and supplements may not supply micronutrients found in foods we do not yet know about, but supplemental vitamins may work just as well as food derived and sometimes better, as I illustrated above.
I don't think Alexander D is a doc. Yes a doc may say you don't need anything other than a balanced diet, but docs also prescribe vitamins, even to patients eating well.
I swear, your posts are always so rational, commonsensical, and even wise. You are one of the biggest assets on this board.
My uncle started having bouts of heart palpitations many times having to be take to the hospital. He started taking cq10 OTC and it went away.
Again, I respect those who are of the opinion that supplements are worthless and people who buy them are stupid but should we now make stupidity against the law?
Let us make our own decisions. We own our body. Nobody else. And what we do to it is nobody's business.
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Its called not being retard. When I was a kid I bought dat der cell tech and thought I was gonna gain 20 pounds of raw muscle. Well guess what It didn't happen lesson learned. Now I research anything before I buy it. Go on line read some reviews read some studies and then you can make an educated decision to buy something. Why give the government another inch on our freedom?
A society should be judged on how it treats the weak(naive). Rat finks like Palumbo shouldn't be able to get rich off the unknowing.
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just another proof that Obama doesn't know shit.
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A society should be judged on how it treats the weak(naive). Rat finks like Palumbo shouldn't be able to get rich of the unknowing.
exactly. this is about protecting rights, not encroaching on them. we all have the right to live in a world where the labels on products match the contents, where advertisements are not misleading, where we can access accurate informatioon on items before we buy them.
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Dreamy!!
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if your really ghey
then give me a brief run down of the pic I sent you :P
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this is true - absorbtion rate of cynocobalamin is capped in the stomach
i take 1mL a week
(http://www.mcguffmedical.com/Images/Images550/000610%20Cyanocobalamin%20Vitamin%20B-12%201000%20mcgmL%20MDV%2030mL%20Vial%20McGuffMedical.com.jpg)
That just reminded me. I have some issue where I can't digest/process vitamin B12. I forget the detail because it was so long ago that I was diagnose with this. It's genetic because my mother and a couple of siblings have the same problem and I use to have to get monthly B12 shots. When they came out with a sublingual version, and it can ONLY be the methycobalamin version not the cyanocobalamin, which I get OTC I never had to get a shot again and my blood test are still normal. I have gone through periods where I neglected to take the supp feeling that I just "grew out" of that condition but blood test proved me wrong. And I felt the typical lethargic effects of a B12 deficiency.
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exactly. this is about protecting rights, not encroaching on them. we all have the right to live in a world where the labels on products match the contents, where advertisements are not misleading, where we can access accurate informatioon on items before we buy them.
This^ We have China who many people believe just may be trying to kill off some people through poisoning products. Are any of "these" supplements coming from China? Do the large manufacturing places get raw materials from China? People need to know this.
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Dreamy!!
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p94/dwayno/yafacebytch.jpg)
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I swear, you crack me up!
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exactly. this is about protecting rights, not encroaching on them. we all have the right to live in a world where the labels on products match the contents, where advertisements are not misleading, where we can access accurate informatioon on items before we buy them.
QUOTED FOR FUCKING TRUTH!
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Surgeonboy is getting owned.
Brutally. Again!
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what part of OFF HAND, do you not understand you psycho drugged-up ADHD hypomanic c u n t? Ok yes, I've heard of Geritol. Fantastic.
Get off my cock already.
You're such an annoying shit talker but when it comes back to you you always ended up crying like a bitch.
BTW, I notice on that last thread where I was royally tooling you that you deleted some of your posts (knowing it can come back and bite your big Black ass). Good decision. Just watch your mouth, boy.
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coolness. FDA should have had this power a long time ago. Its crazy to leave a market completely unregulated. You got stores selling 50 dollar 5 lb tubs of maltodextrin and saturated fat labeled as whey concentrate. id like to see what happens to the "body fortress" and "six start muscle" brands sold at wal mart and elsewhere once the FDA starts checking to make sure they meet label claims.
Another retard post from the perverted board retard. The supplement industry is NOT unregulated. If you read the news every now and then you would notice how often they are sued.
Quit taking about things you have no clue about and stick to what you know -- like sticking needles and cocks into your ass.
Just read this the other day.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110202/ARTICLES/110209885?Title=Supplement-maker-settles-for-2-65-million-with-Sonoma-other-counties
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A society should be judged on how it treats the weak(naive). Rat finks like Palumbo shouldn't be able to get rich off the unknowing.
But he didn't get rich and he went to jail.
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I swear, your posts are always so rational, commonsensical, and even wise. You are one of the biggest assets on this board.
My uncle started having bouts of heart palpitations many times having to be take to the hospital. He started taking cq10 OTC and it went away.
Again, I respect those who are of the opinion that supplements are worthless and people who buy them are stupid but should we now make stupidity against the law.
Let us make our own decisions. We own our body. Nobody else. And what we do to it is nobody's business.
Switch your Uncle to Ubiquinol. It is a reduced version of CoQ-10, not only does it work much better, but older people have a harder time breaking down CoQ-10 into Ubiquinol. I put my Mom on UB over a year ago and her ejection fraction went from 45 to 60%. There is a study that was done in Texas with later stage heart failure patients that used between 600 to 900 mg of UB and all of them had favorable responses and all of them with increased EF. There is not any drug out there that can increase one's EF, but UB can and does.
Also, did you know that statin drugs block the enzyme HMG-Co-reductase which is responsible for your liver making cholesterol? Well that enzyme is also responsible for making other things like Uqbiquinone and when your body lacks this it can send you into heart failure. Funny how a drug that is supposed to protect your heart can actually destroy it. Oh and the drug companies who invented these awesome statin drugs knew this and didn't bother to warn anyone that they should be taking CoQ-10 (at the time Ubiquinol had not been on the market).
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The supplement industry is NOT unregulated.
;D ^^^ this fuckin guy
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exactly. this is about protecting rights, not encroaching on them. we all have the right to live in a world where the labels on products match the contents, where advertisements are not misleading, where we can access accurate informatioon on items before we buy them.
We do have laws requiring products match contents whether it be vitamins of corn flakes. I use to work part time for Vitamin Shopped and I couldn't believe how regulated the industry was. The slightest doubt and we had to pull stuff off the shelves. We were always getting notices about certain products being bogus or not living up to claims. I remember one product actually contained viagra and didn't some of Gaspari's products actually contain steroids? But it's a cat and mouse game. If you stick with the solid companies that's been around for a while and been through all this and it's just not worth it for them to tarnish their rep then the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.
And who is to decide misleading? Doesn't Muscle Tech offer a product that will put on "Up to 6 lbs of muscle in 2 weeks"? That means it can put on "up to" 6 lbs which can be anywhere from zero to six. Now if you put on MORE than 6 bls of muscle you might have a case.
You can't pass a law against stupidity. You'd be behind bars by now.
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We do have laws requiring products match contents whether it be vitamins of corn flakes. I use to work part time for Vitamin Shopped and I couldn't believe how regulated the industry was. The slightest doubt and we had to pull stuff off the shelves. We were always getting notices about certain products being bogus or not living up to claims. I remember one product actually contained viagra and didn't some of Gaspari's products actually contain steroids? But it's a cat and mouse game. If you stick with the solid companies that's been around for a while and been through all this and it's just not worth it for them to tarnish their rep then the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor.
And who is to decide misleading? Doesn't Muscle Tech offer a product that will put on "Up to 6 lbs of muscle in 2 weeks"? That means it can put on "up to" 6 lbs which can be anywhere from zero to six. Now if you put on MORE than 6 bls of muscle you might have a case.
You can't pass a law against stupidity. You'd be behind bars by now.
this bill allows the government to make sure products never have to get taken off ther shelves in the first place. they wont make it off the production line. that way consumers never have to waste their money on a bad product or fuck their health with a contaminated or dangerous one.
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Switch your Uncle to Ubiquinol. It is a reduced version of CoQ-10, not only does it work much better, but older people have a harder time breaking down CoQ-10 into Ubiquinol. I put my Mom on UB over a year ago and her ejection fraction went from 45 to 60%. There is a study that was done in Texas with later stage heart failure patients that used between 600 to 900 mg of UB and all of them had favorable responses and all of them with increased EF. There is not any drug out there that can increase one's EF, but UB can and does.
Also, did you know that statin drugs block the enzyme HMG-Co-reductase which is responsible for your liver making cholesterol? Well that enzyme is also responsible for making other things like Uqbiquinone and when your body lacks this it can send you into heart failure. Funny how a drug that is supposed to protect your heart can actually destroy it. Oh and the drug companies who invented these awesome statin drugs knew this and didn't bother to warn anyone that they should be taking CoQ-10 (at the time Ubiquinol had not been on the market).
I don't know exactly what kind of CoQ-10 he takes but whatever it is it's working. Literally night and day. Has had those heart problems in over a year when he use to get it every few weeks. And yes, I did know about those statin drugs. It was one of the selling points we'd use to sell CoQ-10.
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this bill allows the government to make sure products never have to get taken off ther shelves in the first place. they wont make it off the production line. that way consumers never have to waste their money on a bad product or fuck their health with a contaminated or dangerous one.
If that was the bill then I'd be all for it but that's not what it's about. There's always going to be a trade off better freedom and security/safety. This country was founded on the principle of liberty. The problems with liberals like you is that you want, and "feel" you can have, a totally risk free life and will surrender your liberties to the government thinking they have your best interest in mind and know better than you do what's good for you.
How do you know that jar of spaghetti sauce or bag of chips has what it says it has? Just like anything in the free market you have to build a reputation of trust and quality. Sure, crap works it's way into the market. You buy a shitty bike or that bag of Mexican beef jerky makes you sick. Even some pharmaceutical drugs that have gone through all the rigorous hoops to make it to the market gets pulled. Nothing is 100% safe and trying to make it so creates far more problems than it solves.
I worked in the nutritional industry and stuff gets pulled and companies get sue all the time. Google Joe Weider and read how many times that guy has gotten sues.
To think that you can just piss in a bottle and sell it as amino acids is just not true.
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Another point, when I worked for Vitamin Shoppe we worked with Kaiser who sent their patients who had by pass surgery done to deal with their obesity. Since their ability to consume and absorb nutrients was severely compromise they needed supplements. One of the things they found was that these patients could not consume enough protein by eating alone. This was confirmed by the constant testing they do on these subjects. Protein drinks like Isopure go down real easy not like some of thicker ones like Muscle Milk. This solves the problem which is confirmed by testing.
There's a lot of junk in this whole sordid supplement business but there is also a lot of good stuff that enhances the people's quality of life and even save their life. I've experience it personally, seen it with my relatives, and medical patients whose lives depend on it.
This law will throw out the baby with the bath water.
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You may very well be right but since this is suppose to be a free country why not let ME decide instead of some bureaucrats in Washington that presume to know what's good for us.
THIS^
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This^ We have China who many people believe just may be trying to kill off some people through poisoning products. Are any of "these" supplements coming from China? Do the large manufacturing places get raw materials from China? People need to know this.
Remember what happened to those behind putting in ingredients that killed some of our pet dogs? Some went to jail some were executed. That's right, executed. The Chinese government does not want to kill us. Who would buy their products?
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Another point, when I worked for Vitamin Shoppe we worked with Kaiser who sent their patients who had by pass surgery done to deal with their obesity. Since their ability to consume and absorb nutrients was severely compromise they needed supplements. One of the things they found was that these patients could not consume enough protein by eating alone. This was confirmed by the constant testing they do on these subjects. Protein drinks like Isopure go down real easy not like some of thicker ones like Muscle Milk. This solves the problem which is confirmed by testing.
There's a lot of junk in this whole sordid supplement business but there is also a lot of good stuff that enhances the people's quality of life and even save their life. I've experience it personally, seen it with my relatives, and medical patients whose lives depend on it.
This law will throw out the baby with the bath water.
pellius, in another 9 months you won't be able to buy an incandecsant light bulb. you'll have to buy one filled with toxic murcury ;D
They take and take and take. We are no longer people to the ellites, we are an animal population that they control more and more
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I don't know exactly what kind of CoQ-10 he takes but whatever it is it's working. Literally night and day. Has had those heart problems in over a year when he use to get it every few weeks. And yes, I did know about those statin drugs. It was one of the selling points we'd use to sell CoQ-10.
I know that CoQ-10 has not been shown to increase ejection fraction, BUT for your Uncles palps I'm sure of it's effectivness. Puritan's Pride sells UB for cheap.
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pellius, in another 9 months you won't be able to buy an incandecsant light bulb. you'll have to buy one filled with toxic murcury ;D
They take and take and take. We are no longer people to the ellites, we are an animal population that they control more and more
Yes, I know of this. How do they get away with it?!!
We let them. People have gotten very comfortable turning over their lives to someone else. To not be responsible for themselves. I remember reading once where Arnold said that he started to realize at an early age that people like to be led. To put their fate in someone else's hand. To be told what to do.
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I remember reading once where Arnold said that he started to realize at an early age that people like to be led. To put their fate in someone else's hand. To be told what to do.
Arnold is/was absolutely right.
What allowed for Arnold to prosper as much as he has is the fact that the vast majority of people are emotionally and mentally fragile/weak. He exploited these weaknesses to his advantage and look how far he got.
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BTW where has w8 been?! I'm waiting for her to come lick my asshole.
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BTW where has w8 been?! I'm waiting for her to come lick my asshole.
(http://www.crazywebsite.com/Website-Clipart-Pictures-Videos/Funny-People/Obama_Funny_what-me-worry-1md.jpg)
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Pellius- you are absolutely right. The problem is that many of the supplements available over the counter aren't meeting label claims. Not just talking about fancy marketing "Lose 20lbs in 1 month with this product" or "Gain 432x more muscle with this creatine than Brand X)... but dosages are often incorrect- overdosed, underdosed. There are often fillers and preservatives in many of these products also. If you have iron deficiency anemia- do you want to take quality pharmaceutical grade iron tablets where you can be sure they have met industry standards, or potentially buy an iron supplement over the counter that may either not be the correct dose, or have other crap inside of it? I’m sure your answer is- id like to buy it over the counter and know what I am buying is what it says on the label, right?
I mean it’s the same as buying quality Upjohn Testosterone from a US pharmacy vs going to Mexico and risk buying crap. Dollar for dollar if you are spending your money, you want to make sure you are buying legit stuff. There are some really good supplement companies out there, with long track records of offering good products, but there are also really shitty companies that have no business selling anything for people to consume.
I am very against a huge government, but I do think it’s about time the supplement company nuts up and gets rid of the retarded ads and improves their quality control. If it means having the FDA regulate their products, so be it.
Interesting that you mentioned testosterone, as IT IS FUCKING SCEDULE III
Irony much?
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Interesting that you mentioned testosterone, as IT IS FUCKING SCEDULE III
Irony much?
Ok I know this and?
My point is would you rather get your testosterone from a US pharmacy, or buy it from some home brewer, or go to mexico and risk buying fake crap?
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w8 baby, im waiting for you home girl. You me, a bottle of ky jelly, my Richard Nixon mask and some rap music
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Ok and?
My point is would you rather get your testosterone from a pharmacy, or buy it from some home brewer, or go to mexico and risk buying fake crap?
I can't get testosterone from a pharmacy....because it's illeagal, so I HAVE to go to mexico and get some UG dog shit
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I can't get testosterone from a pharmacy....because it's illeagal, so I HAVE to go to mexico and get some UG dog shit
Sucks to be you. It's not illegal if you have a legit reason for needing it. And given that you use steroids already, if you had a brain you'd figure out a way to get a doctor in the states to prescribe it for you, and check your labs monthly etc... but, you are a getbigger, and we all dumb nigguhs with no education here.
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Ok I know this and?
My point is would you rather get your testosterone from a US pharmacy, or buy it from some home brewer, or go to mexico and risk buying fake crap?
I look at supplements as FOOD supplements. It's just like buying food in a grocery store. Remember the claim that eating X number of bowls of oatmeal will lower your cholesterol by X percent? "A can of almonds is all we ask?" that are sure to prevent heart attacks.
When I buy my frozen breaded chicken strips I personally don't know if it contains what it says it does or if it contains pieces of rat tails and saw dust as filler. I don't know first hand if my protein powder contains 30 grams of protein per serving. I have to think for myself and go with proven brands that have been around for a while. When I buy my moo goo gai pan I don't go to some roach infested dive in China town that claims all fresh ingredients, no msg. and no cat meat.
Is it 100% full proof. No, but life isn't suppose to be.
The price, expense, and the freedoms that we surrender to guarantee that everything is 100% safe is not worth it. I don't want to spend $100 for a jug of protein powder because now it has the government's stamp of approval. A government that I don't fully trust anyway.
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Yep no chance for the carefully monitored pharmaceutical drugs to ever be under dosed. ::) This is not as uncommon as you may think.
Recall of Two Lots of Cytomel 25 mcg (Liothyronine) Tablets
King Pharmaceuticals, Inc has voluntarily recalled two lot numbers of Cytomel 25 mcg (Liothyronine Sodium) Tablets with product code number NDC 60793-116-0. Lot numbers 52215 (exp 09/2009) and 52216 (exp 09/2009) are being recalled because the tablets of these lot numbers were sub-potent (contained less than the labeled strength) 12 months after manufacturing. This recall notice only applies to these two lot numbers.
Cytomel is the brand name for liothyronine and is used primarily to treat hypothyroidism. No other Cytomel or liothyronine lot numbers were involved in this recall.
For more information, please visit:
more information here
Source: FDA
Publication Date: 2009-10-23
Last Updated: 2009-12-05
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I can't get testosterone from a pharmacy....because it's illeagal, so I HAVE to go to mexico and get some UG dog shit
Exactly. Far, far more people get their testosterone through the black market than through legal channels. Whenever you restrict free commerce you encourage a black market and crime.
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Sucks to be you. It's not illegal if you have a legit reason for needing it. And given that you use steroids already, if you had a brain you'd figure out a way to get a doctor in the states to prescribe it for you, and check your labs monthly etc... but, you are a getbigger, and we all dumb nigguhs with no education here.
Doctors operating within the law is not going to prescribe steroids in the amounts that bodybuilders use.
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Yep no chance for the carefully monitored pharmaceutical drugs to ever be under dosed. ::) This is not as uncommon as you may think.
Recall of Two Lots of Cytomel 25 mcg (Liothyronine) Tablets
King Pharmaceuticals, Inc has voluntarily recalled two lot numbers of Cytomel 25 mcg (Liothyronine Sodium) Tablets with product code number NDC 60793-116-0. Lot numbers 52215 (exp 09/2009) and 52216 (exp 09/2009) are being recalled because the tablets of these lot numbers were sub-potent (contained less than the labeled strength) 12 months after manufacturing. This recall notice only applies to these two lot numbers.
Cytomel is the brand name for liothyronine and is used primarily to treat hypothyroidism. No other Cytomel or liothyronine lot numbers were involved in this recall.
For more information, please visit:
more information here
Source: FDA
Publication Date: 2009-10-23
Last Updated: 2009-12-05
Eye opening post, Disgust. (May I call you "Disgust"?) ;D
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I look at supplements as FOOD supplements. It's just like buying food in a grocery store. Remember the claim that eating X number of bowls of oatmeal will lower your cholesterol by X percent? "A can of almonds is all we ask?" that are sure to prevent heart attacks.
When I buy my frozen breaded chicken strips I personally don't know if it contains what it says it does or if it contains pieces of rat tails and saw dust as filler. I don't know first hand if my protein powder contains 30 grams of protein per serving. I have to think for myself and go with proven brands that have been around for a while. When I buy my moo goo gai pan I don't go to some roach infested dive in China town that claims all fresh ingredients, no msg. and no cat meat.
Is it 100% full proof. No, but life isn't suppose to be.
The price, expense, and the freedoms that we surrender to guarantee that everything is 100% safe is not worth it. I don't want to spend $100 for a jug of protein powder because now it has the government's stamp of approval. A government that I don't fully trust anyway.
you def make valid points... Can't argue with ya. You obviously are intelligent enough to think for yourself. It's a shame 85% of this world isn't.
I've personally seen people fuck themselves up big time with OTC products. I've seen 20 year old army guys die from strokes and MI from taking big doses of ephedra. It’s a billion dollar industry with lots of hype and garbage floating around. Open any bodybuilding mag, or watch TV and you will see some retarded shit. Like COLON clensing. LOL what a joke. Something needs to be changed...
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Doctors operating within the law is not going to prescribe steroids in the amounts that bodybuilders use.
He just keeps moving the goal posts. He's more concerned with "winning" an on-line discussion, then the ongoing loss of personal freedoms we are experiencing
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Yep no chance for the carefully monitored pharmaceutical drugs to ever be under dosed. ::) This is not as uncommon as you may think.
Recall of Two Lots of Cytomel 25 mcg (Liothyronine) Tablets
King Pharmaceuticals, Inc has voluntarily recalled two lot numbers of Cytomel 25 mcg (Liothyronine Sodium) Tablets with product code number NDC 60793-116-0. Lot numbers 52215 (exp 09/2009) and 52216 (exp 09/2009) are being recalled because the tablets of these lot numbers were sub-potent (contained less than the labeled strength) 12 months after manufacturing. This recall notice only applies to these two lot numbers.
Cytomel is the brand name for liothyronine and is used primarily to treat hypothyroidism. No other Cytomel or liothyronine lot numbers were involved in this recall.
For more information, please visit:
more information here
Source: FDA
Publication Date: 2009-10-23
Last Updated: 2009-12-05
Jim- sure. I never said this doesn't happen. But compare big pharma drugs to just about any sports supplement company. Who has more I&D, research, quality control... etc
I never ever said big pharma doesn't fuck up. But if im going to buy my t3/t4 you better believe damn well id sooner buy it from big pharma than by Optimum nutritions Cytomar or whatever junk product they are selling that claims to be "just as good as the real thing"
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Eye opening post, Disgust. (May I call you "Disgust"?) ;D
LOL Of course.
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He just keeps moving the goal posts. He's more concerned with "winning" an on-line discussion, then the ongoing loss of personal freedoms we are experiencing
that is EXACTLY what you are doing. First you say supplements are just as good as whole food, then you say they are better than whole food, then you cry on getbig about the entire universe being under control by big brother.
I never said i am not upset about a big government and that we have gotten to a point where we NEED the FDA to get involved...
You guys crack me up. Hey its been a while since anyone called me a nigg@r or told me i dont even have a GED. Here let me help you. Alex, you are a nigguh and no way in hell could you have graduated from medical school.
ok thanks!
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Jim- sure. I never said this doesn't happen. But compare big pharma drugs to just about any sports supplement company. Who has more I&D, research, quality control... etc
I never ever said big pharma doesn't fuck up. But if im going to buy my t3/t4 you better believe damn well id sooner buy it from big pharma than by Optimum nutritions Cytomar or whatever junk product they are selling that claims to be "just as good as the real thing"
I think this whole thing stated about you saying that the body can only absorb a certain amount of particular vitamin which is not true. With that aside here what I honestly think. I think that every company should be held to a certain standard and actually they are. Who was it that got sued for the wrong kind of creatine in their product? I think it was BSN, but don't quote me. But just pulling everything is certainly not in the best interest of anyone but the pharma industry. If someone wants to buy cowballs then fine, just don't make any claims about them.
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I think this whole thing stated about you saying that the body can only absorb a certain amount of particular vitamin which is not true. With that aside here what I honestly think. I think that every company should be held to a certain standard and actually they are. Who was it that got sued for the wrong kind of creatine in their product? I think it was BSN, but don't quote me. But just pulling everything is certainly not in the best interest of anyone but the pharma industry. If someone wants to buy cowballs then fine, just don't make any claims about them.
Ok so, if it isn't true... Why haven't you posted WHY it isn't true? You'd think if you disagree with me so strongly and truly believe you are correct, that you would be able to state exactly why.
I never claimed to be perfect or stated that I cannot learn something new that I didn't know. I'm not a nutritionist by any means, but im pretty sure my knowledge of basic science is good enough to have gotten me this far in life.
You give a LOT of medical advice on here about drugs to take, what drugs not to take, but do you have any educational background to back up what you telling people to do? Other than being an "EXPERT" on getbig? I mean no disrespect, I simply don't know who/what you are.
BTW- i will not sleep until I hear from w8m8! where are you baby gurl?! I wanna feel those A cups
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why do you need multi vitamin?
eat food
get legit gh it is will give you all the multi anything you want,,
gh15 approved
Cus the earth has been overused to feed the worlds growing population, that the soil nutrients Will never again be at adequate levels. Veggies and fruit doesn't have the nutrition they once had.
Texas approved
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you def make valid points... Can't argue with ya. You obviously are intelligent enough to think for yourself. It's a shame 85% of this world isn't.
I've personally seen people fuck themselves up big time with OTC products. I've seen 20 year old army guys die from strokes and MI from taking big doses of ephedra. It’s a billion dollar industry with lots of hype and garbage floating around. Open any bodybuilding mag, or watch TV and you will see some retarded shit. Like COLON clensing. LOL what a joke. Something needs to be changed...
Ephedra has only been linked to 155 deaths, but you've personally seen MULTIPLE 20 year olds die from it. Statistically speaking, thats pretty amazing. You have a knack for being around ephedra deaths. Maybe it's one of your specialties.
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First you say supplements are just as good as whole food, then you say they are better than whole food, then you cry on getbig about the entire universe being under control by big brother.
I think you have me confused with someone else?
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Ok so, if it isn't true... Why haven't you posted WHY it isn't true? You'd think if you disagree with me so strongly and truly believe you are correct, that you would be able to state exactly why.
I never claimed to be perfect or stated that I cannot learn something new that I didn't know. I'm not a nutritionist by any means, but im pretty sure my knowledge of basic science is good enough to have gotten me this far in life.
You give a LOT of medical advice on here about drugs to take, what drugs not to take, but do you have any educational background to back up what you telling people to do?
BTW- i will not sleep until I hear from w8m8! where are you baby gurl?! I wanna feel those A cups
Well first of all I give my opinion about what I feel works best based on what I have personally used or from what I have seen work on other people. For example when I gave my Mom the ubiquinol her ejection fraction increased and has stayed at 60% and I also stated the study that was done in Texas on late stage heart failure patients. I think it was done in Tyler Texas all you have to do is google it and it's there to see. Also, when I told Pellius to switch from CoQ-10 to UB I stated facts about why, ie better absorption because of it being a reduced version and the patient study. Again these are facts that are easily found on google, not something that is my opinion. I never gave him a dosing regime or gave out any type of medical advise.
As far as the Vit C example there was a stusy done I believe in 1996 that showed a 98% absorption rate when taking a dose of 20 mg which is very low and when the dose increased the absorption rate went down. I think it was a 12 gram dose and something to the effect of 1660 mg was absorbed from that dose, but this proves that your body can absorb more when given a higher dose. Now with the new liposomal Vit C the absorption rate and a lot higher.
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Ephedra has only been linked to 155 deaths, but you've personally seen MULTIPLE 20 year olds die from it. Statistically speaking, thats pretty amazing. You have a knack for being around ehedra deaths. Maybe it's one of your specialties.
I've seen 2 guys die of MI and 1 stroke... all were in their early 20's.
Either way, not sure where you are getting your magic numbers from. Maybe that’s 155 with definitive linked death, but i am sure there are hundreds or possibly even thousands more implicated but unable to be 100% proven.
whats your point? Oh ok, im not a real doctor ok bro LOL ::)
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Well first of all I give my opinion about what I feel works best based on what I have personally used or from what I have seen work on other people. For example when I gave my Mom the ubiquinol her ejection fraction increased and has stayed at 60% and I also stated the study that was done in Texas on late stage heart failure patients. I think it was done in Tyler Texas all you have to do is google it and it's there to see. Also, when I told Pellius to switch from CoQ-10 to UB I stated facts about why, ie better absorption because of it being a reduced version and the patient study. Again these are facts that are easily found on google, not something that is my opinion. I never gave him a dosing regime or gave out any type of medical advise.
As far as the Vit C example there was a stusy done I believe in 1996 that showed a 98% absorption rate when taking a dose of 20 mg which is very low and when the dose increased the absorption rate went down. I think it was a 12 gram dose and something to the effect of 1660 mg was absorbed from that dose, but this proves that your body can absorb more when given a higher dose. Now with the new liposomal Vit C the absorption rate and a lot higher.
thanks all I needed to know. lol ::)
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thanks all I needed to know. lol ::)
Of course it is. I can tell when someone has been humbled as you are now. ;)
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you def make valid points... Can't argue with ya. You obviously are intelligent enough to think for yourself. It's a shame 85% of this world isn't.
I've personally seen people fuck themselves up big time with OTC products. I've seen 20 year old army guys die from strokes and MI from taking big doses of ephedra. It’s a billion dollar industry with lots of hype and garbage floating around. Open any bodybuilding mag, or watch TV and you will see some retarded shit. Like COLON clensing. LOL what a joke. Something needs to be changed...
Colon cleansing -- LOL! I remember that shit (no pun intended) when I worked weekends at the Vitamin Shoppe. Absorb and remove "toxins". Just like having an extra liver.
But this is the crux of the matter. There are a lot of stupid people out there. But should we all have to pay for the fact that stupid people exist? We all have to turn over more of our personal decisions and freedoms because some can't decide for ourselves. I was told not to long ago that we need social security because some people don't plan for their future and their retirement and wouldn't invest their money not taken by the government and invest it. We NEED the government to unilaterally confiscate our money and put it in a "lock box" (lol) so we have something for retirement.
Again it's the age old question about the trade off between freedom and security. People came to this country to escape government oppression. We were founded on the concept of liberty. People being responsible for their own decisions and actions. Sure some will make bad decisions and have to pay for it. Lesson hopefully learned. That's life. That's how you grow and progress. I know I learned more form the tests that I failed than the tests that I got an "A" in.
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Of course it is. I can tell when someone has been humbled as you are now. ;)
No, i realize that this is a losing battle. You are just posting hearsay and information you think you remember you saw maybe from a 1996 study, that you aren't even sure about the exact figures about. You are absolutely 100% far and away a GETBIG EXPERT. Congratulations... You win bro!!
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who use prohomornes?? we use testosterona trenbolona equipona masterona gh insulin nandrolone dianabolona anapolona and the such
we coiuldnt give a damn about those pro hormone,,it is and was shit to begin with ,,infact baning it is good,, go to any steroid boarding on the internet,, swiiming with people,,when they decide to put end to this thats when wart will begin but they are not dumb ,,it wil never end they just try to prevent you from growing bitch tits,,
go legit hormones or go home!
gh15 approved
itsa gettinga olda witha the a-a aftera alla youra druga namesa. dicka heada
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that is EXACTLY what you are doing. First you say supplements are just as good as whole food, then you say they are better than whole food, then you cry on getbig about the entire universe being under control by big brother.
I never said i am not upset about a big government and that we have gotten to a point where we NEED the FDA to get involved...
You guys crack me up. Hey its been a while since anyone called me a nigg@r or told me i dont even have a GED. Here let me help you. Alex, you are a nigguh and no way in hell could you have graduated from medical school.
ok thanks!
Don't call people names and posts obscene pictures and just debate and argue the issues on hand then there in no need for insults.
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Colon cleansing -- LOL! I remember that shit (no pun intended) when I worked weekends at the Vitamin Shoppe. Absorb and remove "toxins". Just like having an extra liver.
But this is the crux of the matter. There are a lot of stupid people out there. But should we all have to pay for the fact that stupid people exist? We all have to turn over more of our personal decisions and freedoms because some can't decide for ourselves. I was told not to long ago that we need social security because some people don't plan for their future and their retirement and wouldn't invest their money not taken by the government and invest it. We NEED the government to unilaterally confiscate our money and put it in a "lock box" (lol) so we have something for retirement.
Again it's the age old question about the trade off between freedom and security. People came to this country to escape government oppression. We were founded on the concept of liberty. People being responsible for their own decisions and actions. Sure some will make bad decisions and have to pay for it. Lesson hopefully learned. That's life. That's how you grow and progress. I know I learned more form the tests that I failed than the tests that I got an "A" in.
Great post. I am with you 100%. Its unfortunate, but stupid people account for much of the pain and suffering of this world and not just causing it to themselves but to everyone else.
You'd be AMAZED at how many people I saw during a few months of a GI rotation who "Saw an ad on TV for colon clensing" and wanted to hear more about it. People who were horrified and scared about the fact that they don't shit EVERY SINGLE DAY and that toxins are building up inside... etc. The problem really is in the marketing and advertising of these products and the fools who buy into it.
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But this is the crux of the matter. There are a lot of stupid people out there. But should we all have to pay for the fact that stupid people exist? We all have to turn over more of our personal decisions and freedoms because some can't decide for ourselves. I was told not to long ago that we need social security because some people don't plan for their future and their retirement and wouldn't invest their money not taken by the government and invest it. We NEED the government to unilaterally confiscate our money and put it in a "lock box" (lol) so we have something for retirement.
This made me laugh like a supervillan ;D
We are well and truely fucked, but thats a story for another day ;)
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No, i realize that this is a losing battle. You are just posting hearsay and information you think you remember you saw maybe from a 1996 study, that you aren't even sure about the exact figures about. You are absolutely 100% far and away a GETBIG EXPERT. Congratulations... You win bro!!
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/100405.php
Shame on you for not even knowing about this you being a surgeon and all. ::)
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Don't call people names and posts obscene pictures and just debate and argue the issues on hand then there in no need for insults.
Yo man, i am just firing back... Read the entire thread... I def didn't start this one LOL
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Ok so, if it isn't true... Why haven't you posted WHY it isn't true? You'd think if you disagree with me so strongly and truly believe you are correct, that you would be able to state exactly why.
I never claimed to be perfect or stated that I cannot learn something new that I didn't know. I'm not a nutritionist by any means, but im pretty sure my knowledge of basic science is good enough to have gotten me this far in life.
You give a LOT of medical advice on here about drugs to take, what drugs not to take, but do you have any educational background to back up what you telling people to do? Other than being an "EXPERT" on getbig? I mean no disrespect, I simply don't know who/what you are.
BTW- i will not sleep until I hear from w8m8! where are you baby gurl?! I wanna feel those A cups
I'm sure that Disgusted and gh15 knows far more about the use of performance enhancing drugs than the vast majority of doctors, including yourself.
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Don't call people names and posts obscene pictures and just debate and argue the issues on hand then there in no need for insults.
Dude, this is getbig, we're supposed to do all that shit. 8)
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I'm sure that Disgusted and gh15 knows far more about the use of performance enhancing drugs than the vast majority of doctors, including yourself.
With respect to what the pros are doing. Massive steroid cycles, GH, insulin, timing of all of those things.. Oh sure absolutely. I've never claimed to be a drug guru or expert in that regard. Bodybuilding is just a hobby of mine.
But Jim clearly doesn't know how to analyze a REAL clinical study. Jim I encourage you to take a class called Evidence Based Medicine, or get an MPH, you will learn a lot about interpreting data. For every study you find stating one thing, one can often find a counter-study proving the exact opposite. The trick is to be able to differentiate the good stuff from the bad stuff within each study and clearly this is something you haven't learned yet.
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I've seen 2 guys die of MI and 1 stroke... all were in their early 20's.
Either way, not sure where you are getting your magic numbers from. Maybe that’s 155 with definitive linked death, but i am sure there are hundreds or possibly even thousands more implicated but unable to be 100% proven.
whats your point? Oh ok, im not a real doctor ok bro LOL ::)
Weren't there other factors involved such as heat, dehydration, extreme exertion.
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OK SURGEONBOY I have now referenced both studies that I have talked about to back up my claims. What so far have you done? Man this is fun, what's the ole saying, don't know shit from shinola? ;D
This bio-availability chart was developed from a study done
by J.L. Groff, S.S. Gropper, and S.M. Hunt which
was published in the book Advanced Nutrition
and Human Metabolism, West Publishing Co., 1995,
pages 222-237.
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With respect to what the pros are doing. Massive steroid cycles, GH, insulin, timing of all of those things.. Oh sure absolutely. I've never claimed to be a drug guru or expert in that regard. Bodybuilding is just a hobby of mine.
But Jim clearly doesn't know how to analyze a REAL clinical study. Jim I encourage you to take a class called Evidence Based Medicine, or get an MPH, you will learn a lot about interpreting data. For every study you find stating one thing, one can often find a counter-study proving the exact opposite. The trick is to be able to differentiate the good stuff from the bad stuff within each study and clearly this is something you haven't learned yet.
So far you have NOT demonstrated any type of hardcore medical knowledge. I challenge you to show me. I'm sure I can keep up.
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So far you have NOT demonstrated any type of hardcore medical knowledge. I challenge you to show me. I'm sure I can keep up.
He is making a valid point, AD (May I call you, "AD"?)
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OK SURGEONBOY I have now referenced both studies that I have talked about to back up my claims. What so far have you done? Man this is fun, what's the ole saying, don't know shit from shinola? ;D
This bio-availability chart was developed from a study done
by J.L. Groff, S.S. Gropper, and S.M. Hunt which
was published in the book Advanced Nutrition
and Human Metabolism, West Publishing Co., 1995,
pages 222-237.
LMFAO 12,000mg Vit C... ok bro, you are missing the point completely. 100%. Keep posting your hearsay and google-searched garbage.
Once again, whole food is always better in my opinion. We can disagree about how much of your supplement Vit C is absorbed vs how much of my oranges Vit C is absorbed all day. If you think knowledge of nutrition hasn't changed n 17 years you are off your rocker.
If you want to take 12,000mg of Vit C, go for it bro. I hope you enjoy yourself in the process!!
All of the information I posted was from uptodate.com... The most accurate and up to date medical reference tool that is widely accepted in current medical practice.
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LMFAO 12,000mg Vit C... ok bro, you are missing the point completely. 100%. Keep posting your hearsay and google-searched garbage.
Once again, whole food is always better in my opinion. We can disagree about how much of your supplement Vit C is absorbed vs how much of my oranges Vit C is absorbed all day.
If you want to take 12,000mg of Vit C, go for it bro. I hope you enjoy yourself in the process!!
Linus Pauling use to start the day at 10 grams of vit C. Took more throughout the day. Though nutrition wasn't his specialty I heard he was pretty smart and had some critical thinking skills.
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LMFAO 12,000mg Vit C... ok bro, you are missing the point completely. 100%. Keep posting your hearsay and google-searched garbage.
Once again, whole food is always better in my opinion. We can disagree about how much of your supplement Vit C is absorbed vs how much of my oranges Vit C is absorbed all day.
If you want to take 12,000mg of Vit C, go for it bro. I hope you enjoy yourself in the process!!
Not missing any point at all, I just disproved your point about absorption and that absorption rates can and do vary. You are not even a challenge. :(
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Not missing any point at all, I just disproved your point that absorption rates can and do vary. You are not even a challenge. :(
Yes you are missing the point completely.
You haven't disproven anything I have said, you are going on tangents and posting circumferential evidence proving n o t h i n g.
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Yes you are missing the point completely. I never said they can't and don't vary.
You haven't disproven anything I have said, you are going on tangents and posting circumferential evidence proving n o t h i n g.
What kind of surgeon are you??? No harm in telling us.
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You can thank socialist nazi Obama
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All hail Disgusted- GETBIG.COM EXPERT. JACK OF EVERYTHING, MASTER OF NOTHING.
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What kind of surgeon are you??? No harm in telling us.
I've posted this several times. I am a surgical oncology fellow in my last research year.
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Linus Pauling use to start the day at 10 grams of vit C. Took more throughout the day. Though nutrition wasn't his specialty I heard he was pretty smart and had some critical thinking skills.
Einstein never ever wore socks.
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Einstein never ever wore matching socks.
Fixed.
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All hail Disgusted- GETBIG.COM EXPERT. JACK OF EVERYTHING, MASTER OF NOTHING.
Yep when the going gets tuff just call people names and try and change the subject. ::) Here's a quote from you.
"Your body will only absorb a small percentage of an isolate form of vitamins and minerals- and utilizes even less".
Hahahaha Wrong!!
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I've posted this several times. I am a surgical oncology fellow in my last research year.
Really? So how familiar are you with various chemo drugs?
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All hail Disgusted- GETBIG.COM EXPERT. JACK OF EVERYTHING, MASTER OF NOTHING.
Im willing to bet your one of the clowns that write to gh15 and begin your question with " Oh dear God of hormones"
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Yep when the going gets tuff just call people names and try and change the subject. ::) Here's a quote from you.
"Your body will only absorb a small percentage of an isolate form of vitamins and minerals- and utilizes even less".
Hahahaha Wrong!!
Yes and given that we were speaking about OTC multi-vitamins and based upon the fact that the standard dose of isolated Ascorbic Acid isn't 12,000mg, I am not incorrect at all that you are probably wasting your money on a product that doesn't work.
The other issue is shelf life- and how long before L-Ascorbic acid switches to the D enantiomer and becomes COMPLETELY inactive... but im sure you learned all about that in your organic chemistry class you took to become a GETBIG expert.
In the end, I will continue to eat an orange to get my Vit C and you Mr. Expert of the internet can pop all the pills you want. Cool?
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Really? So how familiar are you with various chemo drugs?
I'm waiting?????
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Really? So how familiar are you with various chemo drugs?
At the center were I am at, we work really closely with Med Onc and Rad Onc, so I leave the chemo for the heme/med onc guys. I have a relitively good working knowledge of the platinum-based chemo drugs, and a broader understanding of many of the common drugs used for GI and hepatobiliary tumors. But I certainly do not claim to be an EXPERT. My roommate in college went on to get a combined MD/PhD and works as a med onc now, he's my go to person for sure when it comes to chemotherapy.
I'm a surgeon. We do 3 things. Cut things out, sew stuff up, put things into people.
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Im willing to bet your one of the clowns that write to gh15 and begin your question with " Oh dear God of hormones"
Oh absolutely. I dont deny that at all, dude is entertaining as hell!
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At the center were I am at, we work really closely with Med Onc and Rad Onc, so I leave the chemo for the heme/med onc guys. I have a relitively good working knowledge of the platinum-based chemo drugs, and a broader understanding of many of the common drugs used for GI and hepatobiliary tumors. But I certainly do not claim to be an EXPERT. My roommate in college went on to get a combined MD/PhD and works as a med onc now, he's my go to person for sure when it comes to chemotherapy.
I'm a surgeon. We do 3 things. Cut things out, sew stuff up, put things into people.
If you are still in school or even just out of you should (and even if you are just a surgeon or yet to be one) you still should have a vast knowledge of the type of cancers that you excise.
OK would you happen to know the specific cancer marker test that is used for Cholangiocarcinoma?
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If you are still in school or even just out of you should and even if you are just a surgeon or yet to be one you still should have a vast knowledge of the type of cancers that you excise.
OK would you happen to know the specific cancer marker test that is used for Cholangiocarcinom?
Why even bother, Alexander is only a loud-mouthed idiot, all he has is an opinion, like everyone else here, but he doesn't even have anything to back it up except say "i'm a surgeon".
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Why even bother, Alexander is only a loud-mouthed idiot, all he has is an opinion, like everyone else here, but he doesn't even have anything to back it up except say "i'm a surgeon".
I know, too bad we couldn't debate real time though cause he would meltdown within 3 minutes.
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I know a lot about Cholangiocarcinoma. I could write you novels about its link to Ulcerative Colitis, to primary sclerosing cholangitis. Steps to excise the bile ducts. Really all of this information is available online, so its not going to prove to you or anyone that I am what I claim to be.
What I will tell you is... Tumor markers are rarely if ever used in DIAGNOSIS.
Perfect example- With cholangio your CEA and CA-19-9 CAN be elevated... CAN BE.. I have seen people with Cholangio with NORMAL levels... I have seen people who DONT have cancer, who have high levels... So we dont check tumor markers to make a diagnosis.
They are used to follow up... For example, after surgery... If your CEA was say 20 preop... Postop week 4 it goes down to ZERO... But 3 months from now, it's back up to 20 or higher, we then can usually say that this tumor is coming back and that they aren't "cured"...
You wont find that on google, that's the real deal bro.
Add to this, certainly other routine labs like high Alk Phos, GGT etc can all help to aid in diagnosis, but tumor markers really aren't all that fantastic. We still have a lot to learn about them.
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Why even bother, Alexander is only a loud-mouthed idiot, all he has is an opinion, like everyone else here, but he doesn't even have anything to back it up except say "i'm a surgeon".
loud-mouthed idiot = most surgeons... and this is getbig- so FUCK YOU too BITCH.
I've backed up everything I have said, if it's still hard for you to understand, too bad. Just thank god the FDA is here to save you lol
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loud-mouthed idiot = most surgeons... and this is getbig- so FUCK YOU too BITCH.
I've backed up everything I have said, if it's still hard for you to understand, too bad. Just thank god the FDA is here to save you lol
I'm gonna cry for a week. ::)
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I'm gonna cry for a week. ::)
Do not worry, the FDA will bring you a box of natural tissue paper made from the desquamated skin sheddings of w8's labia after they are rubbed off with my erection.
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Do not worry, the FDA will bring you a box of natural tissue paper made from the desquamated skin sheddings of w8's labia.
If you had read the thread, i was speaking against FDA regulation, idiot.
What doesn't matter anyways, since i don't live in the US. :-* :-* :-*
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If you had read the thread, i was speaking against FDA regulation, idiot.
What doesn't matter anyways, since i don't live in the US. :-* :-* :-*
Oh my bad, your quote "I'm an Englishman in New York" really seems inappropriate then, huh? Time for an update broski. I'll pray for you.
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If you had read the thread, i was speaking against FDA regulation, idiot.
What doesn't matter anyways, since i don't live in the US. :-* :-* :-*
Well then mind your own countries business you foreign prick!
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Oh my bad, your quote "I'm an Englishman in New York" really seems inappropriate then, huh? Time for an update broski. I'll pray for you.
Are you telling me you would vote for Johnny Falcon in a presidential campaign??
You're even dumber than i thought.
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DISGUSTED- whats up dog?! Is GOOGLE running slow tonight?! It's taking you forever to reply!!!
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Are you telling me you would vote for Johnny Falcon in a presidential campaign??
You're even dumber than i thought.
Oh absolutely. I'd love to see Falcon Punches thrown in the oval office. Sarah Palin for VP- she's got a sweet ass on her booooy.
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I know a lot about Cholangiocarcinoma. I could write you novels about its link to Ulcerative Colitis, to primary sclerosing cholangitis. Steps to excise the bile ducts. Really all of this information is available online, so its not going to prove to you or anyone that I am what I claim to be.
What I will tell you is... Tumor markers are rarely if ever used in DIAGNOSIS.
Perfect example- With cholangio your CEA and CA-19-9 CAN be elevated... CAN BE.. I have seen people with Cholangio with NORMAL levels... I have seen people who DONT have cancer, who have high levels... So we dont check tumor markers to make a diagnosis.
They are used to follow up... For example, after surgery... If your CEA was say 20 preop... Postop week 4 it goes down to ZERO... But 3 months from now, it's back up to 20 or higher, we then can usually say that this tumor is coming back and that they aren't "cured"...
You wont find that on google, that's the real deal bro.
Add to this, certainly other routine labs like high Alk Phos, GGT etc can all help to aid in diagnosis, but tumor markers really aren't all that fantastic. We still have a lot to learn about them.
Diagnosis is usually caught by accident for example doing a liver value test based on symptoms brought on by blocked ducts. So what specific cancer maker test is used while tracking Cholangiocarcinoma?
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Oh absolutely. I'd love to see Falcon Punches thrown in the oval office. Sarah Palin for VP- she's got a sweet ass on her booooy.
You missed the point, "dumby".
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Diagnosis is usually caught by accident for example doing a liver value test based on symptoms brought on by blocked ducts. So what specific cancer maker test is used while tracking Cholangiocarcinoma?
LMAO and you know this from something you read on google, right? LOL Give up bro.
It is often a difficult diagnosis to make, we see it more commonly in patients with UC, so certainly those patients are monitored closer than you would for the general population.
Define- "TRACKING" I am not a bloodhound. I do not "TRACK" anything.
If you read my previous post, I've already told you that tumor markers mean VERY VERY little. CEA, CA19/9, biliary insulin-like growth factor... They are one tiny part of the giant algorithm and mean very little for diagnosis.
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LMAO and you know this from something you read on google, right? LOL Give up bro.
It is often a difficult diagnosis to make, we see it more commonly in patients with UC, so certainly those patients are monitored closer than you would for the general population.
Define- "TRACKING" I am not a bloodhound. I do not "TRACK" anything.
If you read my previous post, I've already told you that tumor markers mean VERY VERY little. They are one tiny part of the giant algorithm.
You're surely trying very hard here.
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LMAO and you know this from something you read on google, right? LOL Give up bro.
It is often a difficult diagnosis to make, we see it more commonly in patients with UC, so certainly those patients are monitored closer than you would for the general population.
Define- "TRACKING" I am not a bloodhound. I do not "TRACK" anything.
If you read my previous post, I've already told you that tumor markers mean VERY VERY little. They are one tiny part of the giant algorithm.
No I know this not from google but from someone that I knew who died from it and as far as using the word "track" this is the word that the Dr used to keep an eye on the progress of the disease so I am not sure why you find that so unusual.
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No I know this not from google but from someone that I knew who died from it and as far as using the word "track" this is the word that the Dr used to keep an eye on the progress of the disease so I am not sure why you find that so unusual.
As i've stated in previous posts, there isn't 1 specific PERFECT tumor marker that we follow for someone with cholangio...
We look at CEA, CA 19/9, Biliary Insulin-like growth factor (sometimes)... its important to have pre-op/pre-treatment values to compare to post-treatment values for follow up. This Doc may have followed the only tumor marker that was drawn pre-treatment... this DOESNT mean that everyone follows this specific marker for that type of cancer. do you understand?
Did your friend have Ulcerative Colitis or Primary Scherolsing Cholangitis prior to his diagnosis of cholangio ca... and was the cancer Adeno (glandular, most common- about 80% of cholangio ca) or squamous cell varient? (far less common)
For a lot of other cancers tumor markers mean much more... Breast Cancer and the BRCA1 and 2 mutations have been researched a shit load and are now used in genetic counseling of family members... other cancers we are still WAY behind... for example- pancreatic cancer research is my area of interest. That is def one son of a bitch that you don't want to get... My old med school anatomy professor told me if you get pancreatic CA "Get yourself a bottle of champagne, a blonde whore and kiss your ass good bye" LOL Sadly, times haven't changed much.
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Either way, sorry for your loss... It's a terrible cancer... Up there with Pancreatic and esophageal in my opinion with respect to long term prognosis/ survival.
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As i've stated in previous posts, there isn't 1 specific PERFECT tumor marker that we follow for someone with cholangio...
We look at CEA, CA 19/9, Biliary Insulin-like growth factor (sometimes)... its important to have pre-op/pre-treatment values to compare to post-treatment values for follow up. This Doc may have followed the only tumor marker that was drawn pre-treatment... this DOESNT mean that everyone follows this specific marker for that type of cancer. do you understand?
Did your friend have Ulcerative Colitis or Primary Scherolsing Cholangitis prior to his diagnosis of cholangio ca... and was the cancer Adeno (glandular, most common- about 80% of cholangio ca) or squamous cell varient? (far less common)
No history of Uc or PSC and not sure bout the second.
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What stage was she diagnosed? What treatment did she receive? How long did she survive following diagnosis?
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Either way, sorry for your loss... It's a terrible cancer... Up there with Pancreatic and esophageal in my opinion with respect to long term prognosis/ survival.
OK well thanks honestly. Very sad and she was only 56.
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OK well thanks honestly. Very sad and she was only 56.
All BS aside, i am sorry to hear that... 56 is way too young.
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What stage was he diagnosed? What treatment did he receive? How long did he survive following diagnosis?
Well its was inoperable and chemo was done, but basically was a waste of time. She lasted about 4 months but actually died from and intestinal blockage. Funny thing is she never once looked sick and actually was working up until the time she died.
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All hail Disgusted- GETBIG.COM EXPERT. JACK OF EVERYTHING, MASTER OF NOTHING.
Disgusted is one of the most knowledgeable guys on the bodybuilding scene..He doesn't need to spew "he's not a doctor in every post." none the less in anything related to bodybuilding and Losing weight i would take disgusted's word over any doctor.
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Well its was inoperable and chemo was done, but basically was a waste of time. She lasted about 4 months but actually died from and intestinal blockage. Funny thing is she never once looked sick and actually was working up until the time she died.
Hmm... Was she enrolled in a clinical trial for the chemo? Where did she go, to a high volume academic hospital or community?
By and large, most GI cancers that are inoperable (usually because of presense of metastatic disease at the time of dianosis) have a terrible prognosis. Good for her that she never really got sick and was working until she died.
We sometimes operate on patients who are good surgical candidates who have for example an isolated liver met... but widely metastatic disease no surgeon will touch because it's not been shown to improve long term survival... Instead it makes their quality of life even WORSE their last few months... because now they have to heal from a big operation and its impossible to resect microscopic mets and even the gross tumor-debulking is difficult at times.
I could never do Med Onc because basically you are telling patients "You are probably going to die soon, but hopefully this new chemo drug we have can help buy you a few months, or maybe more. we aren't really sure. Lets see how you do and hopefully you wont have too many side effects" Being open and honest with your patients being as important as it is, it would be tough to have that conversation every day... Fortunately for us, we usually get to see the patients who end up doing pretty well.
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Just wanted all you buck tooth jack asses to know, I will officially be a doctor very soon..
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Just wanted all you buck tooth jack asses to know, I will officially be a doctor very soon..
Wait, are you black?
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Hmm... Was she enrolled in a clinical trial for the chemo? Where did she go, to a high volume academic hospital or community?
By and large, most GI cancers that are inoperable (usually because of presense of metastatic disease at the time of dianosis) have a terrible prognosis. Good for her that she never really got sick and was working until she died.
We sometimes operate on patients who are good surgical candidates who have for example an isolated liver met... but widely metastatic disease no surgeon will touch because it's not been shown to improve long term survival... Instead it makes their quality of life even WORSE their last few months... because now they have to heal from a big operation and its impossible to resect microscopic mets and even the gross tumor-debulking is difficult at times.
I could never do Med Onc because basically you are telling patients "You are probably going to die soon, but hopefully this new chemo drug we have can help buy you a few months, or maybe more. we aren't really sure. Lets see how you do and hopefully you wont have too many side effects" Being open and honest with your patients being as important as it is, it would be tough to have that conversation every day... Fortunately for us, we usually get to see the patients who end up doing pretty well.
No far as I know the Dr just gave her some kind of chemo that may have been the same drugs that they use for breast cancer as I was under the impression that bile duct cancer has no protocol when it comes to chemo. Even after the chemo didn't work they still wanted to give her more and when asked if this would help her survival they said it won't?? Jesus at that point it was all about the money at 11K a pop what else could it be.
She did start to use a drug on her own and her cancer maker went down 7000 points in one month and this drug has actually put some with bile duct cancer into remission, but like i said she actually died from an intestinal blockage.
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Disgusted is one of the most knowledgeable guys on the bodybuilding scene..He doesn't need to spew "he's not a doctor in every post." none the less in anything related to bodybuilding and Losing weight i would take disgusted's word over any doctor.
Thanks and I can tell you that I have researching diet and nutrition for way over 20 years and still do. I love it and think it's fun. Believe it or not I am way more interested in using diet for longevity purposes than BBing. Peaking for a show is all about diet and NOT drugs. If drugs where it when everyone would peak perfectly and in todays world the majority don't peak correctly. Years ago you rarely say guys miss their peak. I gotta be honest I hate the direction that BBing is going today as there is just way to much emphasis on drugs instead of diet.
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No far as I know the Dr just gave her some kind of chemo that may have been the same drugs that they use for breast cancer as I was under the impression that bile duct cancer has no protocol when it comes to chemo. Even after the chemo didn't work they still wanted to give her more and when asked if this would help her survival they said it won't?? Jesus at that point it was all about the money at 11K a pop what else could it be.
She did start to use a drug on her own and her cancer maker went down 7000 points in one month and this drug has actually put some with bile duct cancer into remission, but like i said she actually died from an intestinal blockage.
Hmmm... Survival time isn't the only issue that needs to be considered... (Although for family members this is often the most important question they want answered "HOW LONG ARE THEY GOING TO LIVE DOCTOR"...) Quality of life, in terms of getting rid of symptoms/preventing others, pain management etc etc all are part of the equation. I really cannot speak on why they did what they did. There are a few albumin-tagged drugs used with fairly good success for metastatic breast cancer. Abraxis Bioscience, which was just bought out by Celegene, has a drug called Abraxane (not sure if the name has changed now that the company was bought) but either way, not sure if there is any data on its utility for cholangio. My guess is there isn't any.
The 3 most common causes of intestinal obstruction (we are talking small and large bowel) are Adhesions from prior surgery, hernias and CANCER... And given her history of cancer, my guess is that she had mets all over the place by the time she passed. Not a fun way to go, but I'm glad to hear she didn't suffer much.
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Once she was deemed inoperable, the tumor markers would continue to be drawn with routine labs, to see how/if the chemo is working, but really it doesn't provide a TON of help most of the time at that moment. Inoperable Cholanio- 3-6 months is usually the survival i have seen with no treatment or equivical (shitty chemo that doesnt help)
Our lab is very actively involved in tumor biology research, hopefully in a few years we will have a better understanding of pathways of more cancers and we will know what to look for way in advance.
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Hmmm... Survival time isn't the only issue that needs to be considered... (Although for family members this is often the most important question they want answered "HOW LONG ARE THEY GOING TO LIVE DOCTOR"...) Quality of life, in terms of getting rid of symptoms/preventing others, pain management etc etc all are part of the equation. I really cannot speak on why they did what they did. There are a few albumin-tagged drugs used with fairly good success for metastatic breast cancer. Abraxis Bioscience, which was just bought out by Celegene, has a drug called Abraxane (not sure if the name has changed now that the company was bought) but either way, not sure if there is any data on its utility for cholangio. My guess is there isn't any.
The 3 most common causes of intestinal obstruction (we are talking small and large bowel) are Adhesions from prior surgery, hernias and CANCER... And given her history of cancer, my guess is that she had mets all over the place by the time she passed. Not a fun way to go, but I'm glad to hear she didn't suffer much.
Yes Abraxane uses a human albumin protein to coat taxol and doesn't need premeds like reg taxol but some have still got bad effect from it just like taxol, but at the same time they use it in a higher dose which to me makes not sense. I believe that this is the only one of it's kind on the market. Also Abraxane is only used after Taxol has been shown to be too toxic. Far as I know it is not being used for bile duct cancer.
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Thanks and I can tell you that I have researching diet and nutrition for way over 20 years and still do. I love it and think it's fun. Believe it or not I am way more interested in using diet for longevity purposes than BBing. Peaking for a show is all about diet and NOT drugs. If drugs where it when everyone would peak perfectly and in todays world the majority don't peak correctly. Years ago you rarely say guys miss their peak. I gotta be honest I hate the direction that BBing is going today as there is just way to much emphasis on drugs instead of diet.
I agree with pretty much everything...A dieting for cutting and longevity differ greatly..The consensus of what's healthy changes from day to day by the medical community...As well how bodybuilders diet for shows..You can see the dependence on bodybuilding drugs in the shit you see on IFBB stage these days..
I'm only curious as to what you think is the max protein a person who wants to gain muscle should consume for anabolism?
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I agree with pretty much everything...A dieting for cutting and longevity differ greatly..The consensus of what's healthy changes from day to day by the medical community...As well how bodybuilders diet for shows..You can see the dependence on bodybuilding drugs in the shit you see on IFBB stage these days..
I'm only curious as to what you think is the max protein a person who wants to gain muscle should consume for anabolism?
One to 1.5 gr per pound, but I tend to lean towards one. I think people eat too much protein to begin with and I personally don't like whey.
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Once she was deemed inoperable, the tumor markers would continue to be drawn with routine labs, to see how/if the chemo is working, but really it doesn't provide a TON of help most of the time at that moment. Inoperable Cholanio- 3-6 months is usually the survival i have seen with no treatment or equivical (shitty chemo that doesnt help)
Our lab is very actively involved in tumor biology research, hopefully in a few years we will have a better understanding of pathways of more cancers and we will know what to look for way in advance.
OK would you happen to know why her marker went down so quickly in one month time? To me this is indicative to the drug she was taking starting to work, maybe not??
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Just wanted all you buck tooth jack asses to know, I will officially be a doctor very soon..
I also have a doctors degree in internet bullshitting in medicine, nutrition, training and politics. ;D ;D
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I also have a doctors degree in internet bullshitting in medicine, nutrition, training and politics. ;D ;D
I'm attempting to get a doctrine in finance..I finished my MBA about 1.5 years ago..
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OK would you happen to know why her marker went down so quickly in one month time? To me this is indicative to the drug she was taking starting to work, maybe not??
It really is hard to say not knowing the entire story... Was it 1 isolated drawing that was drastically low, or the trend was going down over weeks- months... 1 isolated abnormal level (drastically up or down) to me sets off a red flag of "lab error" and we would always redraw the lab.
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I'm attempting to get a doctrine in finance..I finished my MBA about 1.5 years ago..
Nice dude, good luck.
Hey DISGUSTED- all BS and getbig bullshit aside PM me if you wanna chat more about your friends case, im gonna bounce soon. Hopefully I can help you answer any questions that you weren't able to have answered at the time she passed...
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It really is hard to say not knowing the entire story... Was it 1 isolated drawing that was drastically low, or the trend was going down over weeks- months... 1 isolated abnormal level (drastically up or down) to me sets off a red flag of "lab error" and we would always redraw the lab.
DEef not lab error, but what a coincidence that after using this drug for one month she levels decreased 7000 points.
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DEef not lab error, but what a coincidence that after using this drug for one month she levels decreased 7000 points.
Jim- MAYBE... What was the total number? Going from 10,000 -> 3,000 in 1 month would be very unusual but also fairly significant... Going from 107,000 to 100,000 in 1 month, not such a big deal or even note-worthy.
out!
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Jim- MAYBE... What was the total number? Going from 10,000 -> 3,000 in 1 month would be very unusual but also fairly significant... Going from 107,000 to 100,000 in 1 month, not such a big deal or even note-worthy.
out!
83K to 76K but had been on a steady rise thru out, but like you said may have been too high for it to mean anything.
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Jim- on paper those numbers wouldn't really raise my brow... 80k-70k is still extremely high for someone with a known inoperable lesion. Even if for several weeks the trend was going up and this value dipped down, I would want to follow a much longer trend than just 1 month. At the same time, you did mention she started another drug and we will never know for sure, but i wonder what her markers would have been the following month...
nite!
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Jim- on paper those numbers wouldn't really raise my brow... 80k-70k is still extremely high for someone with a known inoperable lesion. Even if for several weeks the trend was going up and this value dipped down, I would want to follow a much longer trend than just 1 month. At the same time, you did mention she started another drug and we will never know for sure, but i wonder what her markers would have been the following month...
nite!
Thanks!!
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I'm attempting to get a doctrine in finance..I finished my MBA about 1.5 years ago..
dude, silver took a hit today
buy the dip?
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"Alexander D" = Milos.
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"Alexander D" = Milos.
Damn, you figured me out! You are SO smart!
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Monday, December 27, 2010
"Food Safety" Bill In Desperate Need of a Presidential Veto
By James J. Gormley
As you may know, the so-called Food Safety and Modernization Act cleared the U.S. House of representatives by a vote of 215 to 144 less than two days after Senate Republicans gave a surprise “victory” to the legislation’s advocates by allowing legilsators to move the package by questionable, legislative sleight-of-hand, otherwise called unanimous consent.
"This legislation is the product of a flawed process," said Rep. Frank Lucas, the top Republican on the House Agriculture Committee, as reported by FarmPolicy.com. "It gives the Food and Drug Administration lots of additional authorities with no accountability.” (Listen to Congressman Lucas’ comments here.)
Rep. Jack Kingston of Georgia, the ranking GOP member on the appropriations subcommittee that oversees the FDA, told The Washington Post that the number of cases of food-borne illnesses in the country does not justify the $1.4 billion the new law is estimated to cost over the first five years.
"We're going to have to evaluate everything and set priorities at a time of reduced appropriations for all the different discretionary programs," Rep. Tom Latham (R-Iowa) told the Post.
Latham serves on the FDA appropriations subcommittee and, along with Kingston and the panel's two other Republicans, voted against the food safety bill. The food safety legislation "is going to have to compete with everything else," he told the Post.
The Act would cost American taxpayers $825 million in 2011 alone ($1.4 billion over the first five years) and does not even touch the root causes of the U.S.’s food safety problems — such as factory-farming — which were highlighted in both a 2009 campaign by the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund (FTCLDF) and by a letter to 99 U.S. senators by the Ranchers-Cattlemen Action Legal Fund (R-CALF USA).
In fact, the legislation, at it stands now, is saddled with an extreme overreliance on a risk algorithm-based approach to food safety, referred to as Hazard Analysis & Critical Control Point (HACCP) and an under-reliance on old-fashioned, on-site physical inspections.
This bill, despite its name and intent, would not make this country's food supply more safe, but less safe.
If this bill were to become law, it would be a multi-billion dollar boondoggle that would make our food safety system much more complex, more focused on hazards analysis than on physical inspections and no less beset by dirty factory farms and filthy slaughterhouses than it was before.
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In some parts of America, you are not allowed to "storm harvest" water from rainfall. Knowing that "they" are stealing the rain water, do any of you really think "they" are not going to take the supplement industry? Its already done, there just dotting the i's and crossing the t's.