Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Straw Man on September 01, 2011, 12:12:30 PM
-
Gotta love those Repubs
Can Big Government get any more "invasive" than forced sonograms and state mandated lectures
And this is from the state that teaches "abstinence only" while having something like the 4th highest teen pregnancy rate in the country and I think also ranks dead last in % of it's citizens with health care coverage
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/30/texas-sonogram-law-judge-abortion_n_942628.html
Texas Sonogram Law: Judge Strikes Down Key Provisions Of Abortion Bill
AUSTIN, Texas — A federal judge on Tuesday blocked key provisions of Texas' new law requiring a doctor to perform a sonogram before an abortion, ruling the measure violates the free speech rights of both doctors and patients.
U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks upheld the requirement that sonograms be performed, but struck down the provisions requiring doctors to describe the images to their patients and requiring women to hear the descriptions.
The law made exceptions for women who were willing to sign statements saying they were pregnant as a result of rape or incest or that their fetus had an irreversible abnormality. Sparks questioned whether the Republican-controlled Texas Legislature was trying to "permanently brand" women who are victims of sexual assault.
The law – one of dozens of anti-abortion measures that advanced through state capitals across the United States this year – takes effect Thursday. The New York-based Center for Reproductive Rights had sued to block it.
Supporters argued the law ensures women fully understand what an abortion entails and said some women have regretted having abortions. They said the law would lead to fewer abortions in Texas. About 81,000 abortions are performed every year in Texas.
Opponents argued that requiring doctors to describe a fetus' features would force them to say things against their will and would violate medical ethics requiring doctors to respect a patient's autonomy and act in the patient's best interest.
The Texas Medical Association opposed the law because it dictated when a doctor must perform a procedure and how the doctor must deal with a patient. While a pre-abortion ultrasound is routine, it is not considered medically necessary.
Sparks wrote that forcing doctors to discuss the results with a patient who may not want to listen "compels physicians to advance an ideological agenda with which they may not agree, regardless of any medical necessity and irrespective of whether the pregnant women wish to listen."
Sparks was particularly troubled by the requirement that victims of sexual assault or incest sign statements attesting to that fact to get around the provision. That would require women to disclose "extremely personal, medically irrelevant facts" that will be "memorialized in records that are, at best, semi-private," Sparks wrote.
"(It) is difficult to avoid the troubling conclusion the Texas Legislature either wants to permanently brand women who choose to get abortions, or views these certifications as potential evidence to be used against physicians and women," Sparks wrote.
Sparks also struck down several enforcement penalties for doctors who faced losing their medical license and possible criminal misdemeanor prosecution if they did not comply.
The ruling is a "huge victory for women in Texas and a clear signal to the state Legislature that it went too far when it passed this law," said Nancy Northup, president and CEO of the Center for Reproductive Rights.
The group said it had already received notice the state plans to appeal.
Texas Gov. Rick Perry, a Republican who is running for president, was critical of Tuesday's ruling. Perry had made the law one of his top priorities for the 2011 legislative session.
"Every life lost to abortion is a tragedy and today's ruling is a great disappointment to all Texans who stand in defense of life," Perry said in a statement.
State Sen. Dan Patrick, R-Houston, a key sponsor of the measure, said he was confident the law would be upheld on appeal.
"It is clear to me, from the inflammatory language in the order, that Judge Sparks was predisposed to this decision," Patrick said.
Sparks represented doctors and hospitals as an attorney for about 30 years before being appointed a federal judge in 1991.
A similar Oklahoma measure, passed in 2010, has been put on hold there pending legal challenges
-
yea it can, it can make you pay for a child that you didnt want...
oh wait, IT ALREADY DOES THAT!!!
-
yea it can, it can make you pay for a child that you didnt want...
oh wait, IT ALREADY DOES THAT!!!
I don't think you'll have anything to worry about in that department
-
LOL you either with this law, buy you started a thread on it....
-
LOL you either with this law, buy you started a thread on it....
unlike you, I would have no problem, philosophically or financially, supporting children that belonged to me
not sure you're actually aware of what this thread is about
-
LOL either do I
But unlike you I DOOOO have a problem with my child being aborted against my will...
::)
-
LOL either do I
But unlike you I DOOOO have a problem with my child being aborted against my will...
::)
yes, we all know how you feel about that
why don't you start a thread about it or bump one of the many where you've bitched and moaned about it
ad nauseum
-
yes, we all know how you feel about that
why don't you start a thread about it or bump one of the many where you've bitched and moaned about it
ad nauseum
LOL perhaps you can do the same with your topic on this thread?
;) moron ::)
-
LOL perhaps you can do the same with your topic on this thread?
;) moron ::)
I can do what now?
start the same thread again
wtf is your problem ?
-
I can do what now?
start the same thread again
wtf is your problem ?
LOL take your advice for me and apply it to yourself and the threads you bitched in...;) moron...
-
LOL take your advice for me and apply it to yourself and the threads you bitched in...;) moron...
you're the one that crying like a little bitch with sand in her vagina
you clearly have nothing to say about the topic of Repubs forcing woman to have sonograms and sit through state sanctioned lectures
do you have any thoughts on the response from doctors or the fact that the federal courts just struck down the provision that requires the doctors to describe the images to their patients and requiring women to hear the descriptions.
I'm guessing you have no thoughts on that and just want to personally attack me
-
you're the one that crying like a little bitch with sand in her vagina
you clearly have nothing to say about the topic of Repubs forcing woman to have sonograms and sit through state sanctioned lectures
do you have any thoughts on the response from doctors or the fact that the federal courts just struck down the provision that requires the doctors to describe the images to their patients and requiring women to hear the descriptions.
I'm guessing you have no thoughts on that and just want to personally attack me
nope I dont have a problem with it at all, just like you have no problem with a man losing their child against their will...
guess life is unfair all over huh?
-
Lmao at straw objecting to this yet defending obamacare mandate.
-
Lmao at straw objecting to this yet defending obamacare mandate.
I'm pointing out they are both are exactly the same
-
so youre against obamacare now?
-
so youre against obamacare now?
against what?
my life hasn't changed at all
has yours?
-
against what?
my life hasn't changed at all
has yours?
LOL the stifling of businesses, making businesses pay the penalty for part time workers.
mandating that insurance companies give insurance to anyone at anytime and making it cheaper to not carry insurance and pay the penalty until you get sick and then buying a policy.
causing the insurance companies to spread the risk of those who dont buy insurance policies causing the premiums to go up.
and yea my life has changed as has every person who works in internal finance for a company that has employees. You see we have to start trying to plan for this disaster.......
-
LOL the stifling of businesses, making businesses pay the penalty for part time workers.
mandating that insurance companies give insurance to anyone at anytime and making it cheaper to not carry insurance and pay the penalty until you get sick and then buying a policy.
causing the insurance companies to spread the risk of those who dont buy insurance policies causing the premiums to go up.
and yea my life has changed as has ever person who works in internal finance for a company that has employees. You see we have to start trying to plan for this disaster.......
so tell us how your life has changed
-
so tell us how your life has changed
LOL by having to try and make plans for this disaster, did you not read that point?
are you for the provisions in obamacare straw?
-
LOL by having to try and make plans for this disaster, did you not read that point?
are you for the provisions in obamacare straw?
right on dude
I see what you're talking about
tell us what provisions you have made for Obamacare when it rolls out
-
right on dude
I see what you're talking about
tell us what provisions you have made for Obamacare when it rolls out
LOL how about we have an actual conversation here straw instead of the usual, I ask you a question and you respond with questions never answering any of mine, ok?
since i asked first lets start there and then Ill go into what i have to do to plan for this bill.
are you for the provisions in the health care bill all in all straw?
please an honest conversation this go around...
-
Got to love the straw man lib argument - it's not ok to force someone to undergo a sonogram, but it is ok to force them to buy private health care insurance.
Typical liberal double standards.
-
LOL how about we have an actual conversation here straw instead of the usual, I ask you a question and you respond with questions never answering any of mine, ok?
since i asked first lets start there and then Ill go into what i have to do to plan for this bill.
are you for the provisions in the health care bill all in all straw?
please an honest conversation this go around...
I'm fine with the provisions in the legislation now tell us how your life has changed and what "plans" you've put in place to deal with the legislation. I don't understand what you mean
-
I'm fine with the provisions in the legislation now tell us how your life has changed and what "plans" you've put in place to deal with the legislation. I don't understand what you mean
Then you should be fine with the govt forcing sonograms.
now STFU
-
Then you should be fine with the govt forcing sonograms.
now STFU
I assume you're fine with it too
right?
-
I assume you're fine with it too
right?
Wrong. I dont favor either.
Good job on your double standards.
-
Wrong. I dont favor either.
Good job on your double standards.
amazing
other than the mandate (which is necessary for an insurance program to work) tell me what the Texas abortion law has in common with the healthcare legislation
-
amazing
other than the mandate (which is necessary for an insurance program to work) tell me what the Texas abortion law has in common with the healthcare legislation
GOVT FORCING TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST THEIR WILL!
-
GOVT FORCING TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST THEIR WILL!
nice caps
so govt should never force you to do something against your will
is that what you're saying
so you're pro choice
you're against things like speed limits
you should haven't have pay any income taxes if you don't want to
If you're building a house you shouldn't have to follow any buidling codes
If you own a business you should have to follow any labor laws, etc..
do you want to refine your STATEMENT a little bit
-
Not at all. I dont believe in the income tax one bit.
Most of those other things are a matter of choice.
You dont have to build a house if you dont want, hire, etc.
-
Not at all. I dont believe in the income tax one bit.
Most of those other things are a matter of choice.
You dont have to build a house if you dont want, hire, etc.
so if you want to build a house or drive a car or own a business then you are fine with the government telling you what to do?
right?
-
so if you want to build a house or drive a car or own a business then you are fine with the government telling you what to do?
right?
Like I said - its all a matter of choice and I do agree with some minimual level of rules just for business certaity and stability - but that does not even remotely compare to what we have now.
BTW - I need a good laugh - can you please offer your opinion on the jobs report.
-
Like I said - its all a matter of choice and I do agree with some minimual level of rules just for business certaity and stability - but that does not even remotely compare to what we have now. BTW - I need a good laugh - can you please offer your opinion on the jobs report.
I'm not aware that we have had any major change in the "rules" that effect our lives since Obama got in office. I know you'll SCREAM obama care but that personally has had no effect on my life and so far haven't heard anyone who can tell me any negative effect on their life either
Regarding jobs the report and downward revisions are obviously not good
hopefully Obama will have something to say next week that will help
I would look forward to any Repub ideas too.
Repubs have controlled Congress all year and I don't recall them offering any legislation to promote job growth. Maybe you can recall something
-
I'm not aware that we have had any major change in the "rules" that effect our lives since Obama got in office. I know you'll SCREAM obama care but that personally has had no effect on my life and so far haven't heard anyone who can tell me any negative effect on their life either
Regarding jobs the report and downward revisions are obviously not good
hopefully Obama will have something to say next week that will help
I would look forward to any Repub ideas too.
Repubs have controlled Congress all year and I don't recall them offering any legislation to promote job growth. Maybe you can recall something
uuugggh,, they passed the repeal of ObamaCare which is the nations biggest job killer going.
-
uuugggh,, they passed the repeal of ObamaCare which is the nations biggest job killer going.
nice talking point
so other than a worthless vote that did nothing (and of coure the Repubs know this to be a fact) they've done nothing else to help promote jobs growth?
btw - do you really think Obama is concerned about healthcare or was that legislation just part of his plan to collapse the the country?
-
nice talking point
so other than a worthless vote that did nothing (and of coure the Repubs know this to be a fact) they've done nothing else to help promote jobs growth?
btw - do you really think Obama is concerned about healthcare or was that legislation just part of his plan to collapse the the country?
-
333
seriously man
this is a chart from the Heritage Foundation and that is fine but when you read it do you see "proof" of cause and effect on jobs
read it again and then again and then connect the dots
-
Can't believe the judge left in place the requirement to get a sonogram.
Is it really too hard to leave these women alone?
-
I'm fine with the provisions in the legislation now tell us how your life has changed and what "plans" you've put in place to deal with the legislation. I don't understand what you mean
so youre saying that this bill and obamacare are one in the same and youre for one yet against another?
hmmmmm....sounds about par for you...double standards out the ass....::)
well you see straw, my company has about 450 employees many of which are part time. We also have contracts that go out years into the future. As a result of the bill requiring companies to add up part time worker hours to determine the amount they will be penalized. We have to keep track of part time hours for similiar jobs or the jobs we currently have whos contracts go out so many years. We also have to be very careful about what bids we give and contracts we bid on. You see if our margins dont take into account the rise in cost due to the penalties we will have to pay for part time workers a contract that was profitable before the penalties could be a loss after...
-
so youre saying that this bill and obamacare are one in the same and youre for one yet against another?
hmmmmm....sounds about par for you...double standards out the ass....::)
well you see straw, my company has about 450 employees many of which are part time. We also have contracts that go out years into the future. As a result of the bill requiring companies to add up part time worker hours to determine the amount they will be penalized. We have to keep track of part time hours for similiar jobs or the jobs we currently have whos contracts go out so many years. We also have to be very careful about what bids we give and contracts we bid on. You see if our margins dont take into account the rise in cost due to the penalties we will have to pay for part time workers a contract that was profitable before the penalties could be a loss after...
I said that flippantly in response to 333's comment about a mandate
To be clear I do not think they (the sonogram law and healthcare legislation) are the same and I really don't even think it's equivalent to the mandate in the healthcare legislation
You have to have a mandate in the healthcare legislation or people won't buy insurance and then when they become sick or injured they will want access to the program which will skew the burdern of their healthcare costs on people who have been paying into the system for years prior. There is no analog to this situation with the sonogram and lecture law.
I do think as a general rule, both parties are the same in the sense that they are both beholden to their corporate patrons in order to get elected
To the topic of this thread - Republicans claim to be against Big Government and claim that Dems want to "control your private life" but they turn around and use government to get into the private life of woman in the most invasive way imaginable and for no justifiable reason except that Republican are primarily christians and christians are againts abortion. It's nothing more than a proxy to force another person to adopt (or attempt to adopt) a state sanctioned religious belief. That was the reason to try to force woman to VIEW the sonogram and to force doctors to say things against their will and some doctors say, in violation of medical ethics
-
uuugggh,, they passed the repeal of ObamaCare which is the nations biggest job killer going.
good job hitting the Repub talking point
do you have any data to support your claim of "biggest job kller going" or you you just feel it in your gut
from politifact.com
Republicans like to repeat this claim, but we found very little substance to back it up. Most nonpartisan analysts say that overall job losses or gains because of the bill will not be significant. "To the extent that changes in the health insurance system lead to improved health status among workers, the nation’s economic productivity could be enhanced," said the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office. "It is not clear, however, whether such changes would have a substantial impact on overall economic productivity or output." We gave Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., a False for this statement.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jan/20/eric-cantor/health-care-law-job-killer-evidence-falls-short/
-
I said that flippantly in response to 333's comment about a mandate
To be clear I do not think they (the sonogram law and healthcare legislation) are the same and I really don't even think it's equivalent to the mandate in the healthcare legislation
You have to have a mandate in the healthcare legislation or people won't buy insurance and then when they become sick or injured they will want access to the program which will skew the burdern of their healthcare costs on people who have been paying into the system for years prior. There is no analog to this situation with the sonogram and lecture law.
I do think as a general rule, both parties are the same in the sense that they are both beholden to their corporate patrons in order to get elected
To the topic of this thread - Republicans claim to be against Big Government and claim that Dems want to "control your private life" but they turn around and use government to get into the private life of woman in the most invasive way imaginable and for no justifiable reason except that Republican are primarily christians and christians are againts abortion. It's nothing more than a proxy to force another person to adopt (or attempt to adopt) a state sanctioned religious belief. That was the reason to try to force woman to VIEW the sonogram and to force doctors to say things against their will and some doctors say, in violation of medical ethics
I said that flippantly in response to 333's comment about a mandate
To be clear I do not think they (the sonogram law and healthcare legislation) are the same and I really don't even think it's equivalent to the mandate in the healthcare legislation
You have to have a mandate in the healthcare legislation or people won't buy insurance and then when they become sick or injured they will want access to the program which will skew the burdern of their healthcare costs on people who have been paying into the system for years prior. There is no analog to this situation with the sonogram and lecture law.
I do think as a general rule, both parties are the same in the sense that they are both beholden to their corporate patrons in order to get elected
To the topic of this thread - Republicans claim to be against Big Government and claim that Dems want to "control your private life" but they turn around and use government to get into the private life of woman in the most invasive way imaginable and for no justifiable reason except that Republican are primarily christians and christians are againts abortion. It's nothing more than a proxy to force another person to adopt (or attempt to adopt) a state sanctioned religious belief. That was the reason to try to force woman to VIEW the sonogram and to force doctors to say things against their will and some doctors say, in violation of medical ethics
First off the health care bill is going to do that anyway b/c it is cheaper to not carry insurance and pay the penalty than it is to carry insurance...
second I agree with you on the both political parties.
third there are plenty of reasons outside of religion to be against abortion...
what gets me is the lefts idea that the man should be forced to own up to his actions but not the woman.
If you want equality then fight for it all the way around not just for one persons equality.
-
First off the health care bill is going to do that anyway b/c it is cheaper to not carry insurance and pay the penalty than it is to carry insurance...
second I agree with you on the both political parties.
third there are plenty of reasons outside of religion to be against abortion...
what gets me is the lefts idea that the man should be forced to own up to his actions but not the woman.
If you want equality then fight for it all the way around not just for one persons equality.
because you understand the need for full participation and the inherent flaws we can actually have a discussion about this
there is no "equality" in pregnancy and you can't make it so by mandate
-
because you understand the need for full participation and the inherent flaws we can actually have a discussion about this
there is no "equality" in pregnancy and you can't make it so by mandate
the problem is straw that even with "full participation" you wont get it bc again its cheaper to not carry insurance than it is to carry it.
B/c insurance companies must give policies to anyone at anytime, How do you think they will account for the new risks? They will continue to raise premiums...
Never said there was equality in the sense im sure your thinking of about her carrying the baby...But thats her choice....there are equal choices to get into that position and holding one person accountable for their choice and not the other for the exact same choice is not right...
-
the problem is straw that even with "full participation" you wont get it bc again its cheaper to not carry insurance than it is to carry it.
B/c insurance companies must give policies to anyone at anytime, How do you think they will account for the new risks? They will continue to raise premiums...
Never said there was equality, but there are equal choices and holding one person accountable for their choice and not the other for the exact same choice is not right...
so you must find a valid way to enforce that or eliminate it
there are not equal choices in pregnancy
-
so you must find a valid way to enforce that or eliminate it
there are not equal choices in pregnancy
sorry i didnt explain fully
there certainly are equal choices in getting pregnant...wouldnt you agree?
so again holding one person accountable for their choice and not the other for the exact same choice is not right
-
sorry i didnt explain fully
there certainly are equal choices in getting pregnant...wouldnt you agree?
so again holding one person accountable for their choice and not the other for the exact same choice is not right
you mean the choice of having sex
I'd call that an equal choice assuming no rape, incest, etc...
the consequence of sex......pregnancy, is not an equal outcome and so far, there is nothing we can do to change that
-
you mean the choice of having sex
I'd call that an equal choice assuming no rape, incest, etc...
the consequence of sex......pregnancy, is not an equal outcome and so far, there is nothing we can do to change that
correct but again your holding one person responsible for an equal choice, the same exact choice youre not holding the other person responsible for is my point.
Pregnancy isnt equal but then again either is the justice system when it comes to men and women and their parental rights after the child is born.
at any rate I know we will never convience each other of our respective points of views, its nice to know that we can still have a civil conversation from time to time...you liberal moron ;)
sorry I have to keep up apperances :)